Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-07-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:32 tadzik oo :0
00:32 tadzik that'll help :)
00:36 hoelzro tadzik: =)
00:37 hoelzro I think you still have to enable the repo in Travis
00:39 tadzik hm
00:40 hoelzro tadzik: I can walk you through it if you need help
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01:25 skids .botsnack
01:25 yoleaux :D
01:25 synbot6 om nom nom
01:29 tadzik hoelzro: that'd be awesome, I'll try to get in touch with you tomorrow about it
01:29 tadzik now etoosleepy
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02:12 hoelzro ok, sounds good! I may be busy (visiting in-laws) but I might get up early and sneak away with my laptop =P
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06:33 smls m: my @a = ^10;  dd @a / 2;  dd @a div 2
06:33 camelia rakudo-moar 4b5e19: OUTPUT«5.0␤Cannot call infix:<div>(Int, Int, Int, Int, Int, Int, Int, Int, Int, Int, Int); none of these signatures match:␤    (Int:D \a, Int:D \b)␤    (int $a, int $b --> int)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/stDkOpuAmu:1␤␤»
06:33 smls shouldn't div coerce its arguments like the other numeric ops do?
06:35 smls m: my @a = ^10;  dd @a % 2;   # even its little brother 'mod' does... :)
06:35 camelia rakudo-moar 4b5e19: OUTPUT«0␤»
06:40 smls Hm, looks like it's according to spec: http://design.perl6.org/S03.html#line_785
06:40 smls But why?
06:44 smls instead of having the two sigs: (Int,   Int   --> Int) and (int, int --> int)
06:44 smls couldn't it be given these:     (Int(), Int() --> Int) and (int, int --> int)
06:44 smls ...without loosing any functionality?
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07:14 skids I'm guessing it has to do with the return type restriction.  It would be good if the reason for that were explained in the design docs.
07:16 smls Maybe it's from a time when coercive parameters didn't work like they do today?
07:22 skids well, so is infix %, and it is different.
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07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: 871858d | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (2 files):
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: Only create Perl 6 packages for the first interpreter
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5:
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: Inline::Perl5::require creates a Perl 6 wrapper package for loaded Perl5
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: modules. use Foo:from<Perl5> uses the first created interpreter: $default_perl5.
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: When using multiple Perl 5 interpreters, only this $default_perl5 should
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: create wrapper packages to avoid confusion and conflicts when the same
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: package would be created multiple times.
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inl​ine-Perl5/commit/871858dfa2
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: 07dd4fb | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (2 files):
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: Allow use'ing a P5 module more than once on the same interpreter
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5:
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: When loading a P5 module with .require, .use or use :from<Perl5> we
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: create a P6 wrapper package for seamless integration. Obviously we
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: should do this only on the first load. Perl allows loading modules
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: multiple times and we should stick to that.
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5:
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: Fix GH #27.
07:44 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inl​ine-Perl5/commit/07dd4fb750
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10:00 jaffa4 hi all
10:00 jaffa4 How can I compile a Perl6 code into moarvm bytecode?
10:02 nine jaffa4: I don't know, but Panda does it on installation. Maybe have a look at that?
10:05 masak there was a time when I used precompilation a lot, because it made a huge difference for startup.
10:05 masak nowadays, I prefer to take the startup hit, because it makes it easier to do development if I don't precompile.
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11:14 masak thanks to conversations with vendethiel++ on our clandestine macros channel, I've come to realize that much of advanced macro constructions comes down to being able to synthetically creating variables, and then having those variables resolve in the right/Least Surprise way in the ASTs they participate in.
11:15 masak users want something a little bit contradictory there: (a) hygiene, and (b) convenience.
11:15 vendethiel (clandestine but logged channel :-P)
11:16 masak it's top secret because not many people are all that interested :P
11:16 vendethiel .oO( and we're not all that interesting )
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11:16 masak I dunno, I find our conversations riveting.
11:17 vendethiel at least I learned a word :)
11:29 jaffa4 masak, riveting.. where did you learn that word?
11:30 masak I'm a voracious reader. guess I picked it up through reading.
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13:41 masak today's autopun spotting: https://twitter.com/SwedishCan​ary/status/618266555218984960
13:41 masak (this is the kind of autopun that parasitizes an existing pop culture quote)
13:42 masak (and yes, I've seen the xkcd on Tautology Club, so linking it here would be way redundant)
13:51 jaffa4 Cannot find method 'AT-KEY': no method cache and no .^find_method
13:51 jaffa4 Is this a bug?
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13:53 jnthn Not automatically.
13:53 yoleaux 18 Jul 2015 22:12Z <japhb> jnthn: Happened to see the link to your S17 supply/whenever proposal.  I like it in general -- which is to say, I'd probably need to code a bit with it to find the holes if any.
13:54 jnthn Depends how you ran into it.
13:54 jnthn It's not a likely issue to run into, though.
13:54 jnthn But just showing an error is too little info.
13:55 jaffa4 caused by line my $f = Perl6::Tracer.new();
13:55 jnthn And what is Perl6::Tracer?
13:55 jaffa4 a class
13:55 jnthn You don't say!
13:55 jaffa4 module you can install it
13:56 jnthn Ah, it's on modules.perl6.org?
13:56 jaffa4 yes
13:56 hoelzro good *, Perl 6
13:57 jnthn Ah, but one of yours...
13:57 jaffa4 It cointains tracer.p6
13:57 jnthn I guess you're playing with compiler internals, then.
13:57 jaffa4 but it works if I use -I in command line instead of installing the module
13:59 jnthn Well, there's no way I've got time to golf down a whole module and its dependencies.
14:01 masak jaffa4: this is your signal to golf the code, to make it easier for people to find what's wrong. :)
14:01 masak again, just to recap, "golf" means "remove anything non-essential to exposing the problem"
14:02 jaffa4 firsdt problem there is no decent error message
14:02 jaffa4 first...
14:02 jaffa4 Do you agree?
14:02 masak depends what's wrong, I'd say.
14:03 jnthn jaffa4: You're doing stuff with the internals of the compiler.
14:03 masak that it can't find a method is clear. in that sense the error message is decent.
14:03 masak question is why.
14:03 jnthn We spend a lot of time on user experience for users doing normal things. You're not doing a normal thing. You shouldn't expect hand-holding.
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14:06 masak jaffa4: if you genuinely think that Rakudo is doing something wrong in this case, the burden of proof is on you in the form of a golfed bit of code.
14:07 jaffa4 ok.. if I say new... if it failed inside new, I should see that linie
14:07 jaffa4 There is no such line
14:07 jaffa4 i nthe error message
14:07 jaffa4 so it fails in rakudo when doing new
14:08 masak as far as I'm concerned, you're jumping to conclusions.
14:08 masak the only thing that matters at this point is the golfed code.
14:08 jaffa4 or if it fails inside new but the rakudo does not show the line number inside new , that is like indecent error message
14:08 masak jaffa4: yes, but we *don't know*.
14:08 masak there is not enough data.
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14:09 jaffa4 iit is all based on what I see
14:09 masak fantastic.
14:09 mst jaffa4: please stop guessing randomly and show complete code that illustrates the problem, plus a mock up of what you think should happen
14:10 masak jaffa4: what mst said.
14:10 mst jaffa4: deleting all of the unrelated code will not only make it much easier for other people to look at but will prove that that code isn't the problem
14:10 * masak finds it's *really* hard to not take an elitist stance and just go "listen to your elders" when someone is behaving unscientifically wrt bug reports
14:12 Colonel-X Can I use in my regexes some rules defined in STD ?
14:12 masak Colonel-X: yes, if you manage to inherit from STD.
14:12 jaffa4 https://gist.github.com/ja​ffa4/5728e29b867807c3cd41 , see this is the line number
14:12 masak Colonel-X: class:method::grammar:rule
14:13 mst jaffa4: yes, and now keep deleting code until only the problem remains
14:13 mst jaffa4: you're looking for a -minimum- reproduction case here
14:13 Colonel-X masak, thanks
14:14 mst jaffa4: i.e. if I delete any one line from the repro case, it should stop failing
14:14 masak jaffa4: three people asked you to please golf the code, and you paste the un-golfed code. also, the line number is clearly there.
14:15 masak it's in your script file, line 51.
14:15 mst right. I'm not even sure what's supposed to be wrong about that output
14:15 mst looks like Perl6::Tracer is dying during its constructor
14:15 mst which indicates ::Tracer is buggy
14:15 mst but is otherwise uninteresting
14:16 masak well, the interesting thing is that we're getting the line-and-file outside of the constructor.
14:16 mst oh, that's not normal?
14:16 masak and the error message is about `AT-KEY`, which doesn't seem to figure in the script code at all.
14:16 jnthn Well, soemthings up
14:16 masak so, yeah, this needs golfing.
14:16 masak by jaffa4
14:16 mst right, ok
14:16 masak jaffa4: by you.
14:16 masak jaffa4: please golf it.
14:16 jnthn But in the module chain it's doing a use Perl6::Grammar:from<nqp>
14:17 mst jaffa4: have you started deleting code yet?
14:17 mst jaffa4: basically, your responsibility is to enact the process in http://shadow.cat/blog/mat​t-s-trout/sherlock-holmes/
14:17 mst jaffa4: then #perl6 can go to work on the faulty unit once they know what the fault actually is
14:17 masak jnthn: yes, that's also significant. in fact, I'd mentally promote that to the biggest clue.
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14:21 jaffa4 https://gist.github.com/ja​ffa4/94c0325bddf927294142
14:24 mst right, so now you need to delete code from Perl6::Tracer
14:24 mst until you can include the module code in the gist too
14:26 lucasb So, the syntax "has $foo" will continue to be valid? Any plans for killing it in the future?
14:29 masak lucasb: no plans; it's a sop.
14:30 lucasb sop?
14:30 masak lucasb: if -- like me -- you dislike it, then don't use it.
14:30 masak lucasb: it's a sop to people who don't like twigils.
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14:31 lucasb masak: yeah, I think I don't like it; thanks for the answer
14:32 lucasb but one can clearly see that it will cause confusion :)
14:33 jnthn lucasb: No worse than lack of twigils cause in C++/Java/C#... :)
14:33 mst jnthn: worse. because I'll open a file and assume the lack of a twigil means it's a lexical then go hunting for it in the wrong place
14:33 jaffa4 mst: I do not get his error message if the class is not precompiled
14:33 mst jaffa4: so find the smallest pre-compilable class that gives an error
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14:34 jaffa4 How can I precompile what is the command?
14:35 jnthn mst: Point. Though I guess we can look to p5-mop to know whether that's actually a pain point in reality...
14:35 jnthn mst: Provided my memory of p5 mop's latest incarnation is accurate, anyways... :)
14:36 mst jnthn: I dunno if the latest one involves twigils, the last one that did was one of the "this is obviously going to fail because it's fighting the VM instead of using it" ones
14:37 mst so, since I'd already told stevan how and why it wasn't going to work I never bothered trying to use it :)
14:37 mst notable though - all my personal attempts at binding lexicals to object internals have used '$_foo'
14:37 mst because mix and match scoping really annoys me
14:38 mst jnthn: at the very least, I think there should be some sort of 'opt in to namespace collisons' line, "no strict 'scoping';" or something, that people can spot, to realise the sop is in use in the class
14:38 mst but that might stop it being an effective sop
14:39 jnthn mst: I thought the latest one didn't have twigils for the very reason you noted :)
14:39 mst and I think it's clear that I really like twigils compared to mixed namespaces, so clearly I'm partisan
14:40 jnthn I've a strong preference for them too, fwiw. And as a compiler writer I'm always happy to have less code to maintain. But I don't think those two give me a reason to advocate getting rid of the feature...
14:40 mst yes, probably, the latest one is still in pieces on the floor though AFAIK
14:47 jaffa4 if I delete moarvm file, it works
14:47 jaffa4 Is it not enough for you?
14:49 ugexe is it enough for someone to tell you whats wrong? no
14:50 ugexe you can compile code with perl6 --target=mbc --out=lib/whatever.pm6.moarvm lib/whatever.pm6
14:51 mst jaffa4: you need to produce the smallest thing that when precompiled breaks
14:53 hoelzro nine: I've been reporting a lot of Inline::Perl5 issues lately (with more to come!); let me know if you want some help with those
14:54 hoelzro I'm just trying to get things into GH issues first so they're publicly visible, and others can help if they choose
14:54 hoelzro I don't expect you to do it all =)
15:03 jaffa4 msi: https://gist.github.com/ja​ffa4/94c0325bddf927294142
15:04 jaffa4 it happens when use Perl6::Parsing
15:04 jaffa4 and the code is compiled
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15:11 mst jnthn: is the above any better?
15:15 jnthn mst: Well, Perl6::Parsing is also one of jaffa4's modules...it's not entirely to me clear if you even need an intermediate module to trigger the issue at the moment.
15:15 jnthn *clear to me
15:15 mst ah
15:15 jnthn So it's helped show where the problem *isn't* to a decent degree.
15:16 mst jaffa4: can you please try and create a *small* .pm that reproduces it, rather than requiring modules you wrote that people don't necessarily know the internals of?
15:16 jnthn But mostly pointed the finger a step down the dependency chain.
15:21 vendethiel okay, I'm going to through a feature idea/request, because it's been a great one in Scala and al
15:21 jaffa4 Missing or wrong version of dependency ? What does it mean?
15:21 vendethiel being able to "use alias". say `use Foo::Bar::{Baz => BarBaz};` <- really, I just want to be able to "import a name"
15:22 jaffa4 D has that feature too
15:22 ugexe it means you are missing a dependency. either your build order is incorrect or you are not including the path via -I
15:23 ugexe leftover build files in your project directory could do that as well
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15:28 jaffa4 ugexe:  the file is not missing
15:32 ugexe thats not what is meant. can the interpreter find it? if it does find it, is it finding one that was correctly compiled (including build order)?
15:32 ugexe is it an older version of rakudo?
15:33 ugexe i think RAKUDO_MODULE_DEBUG=1 may tell you the file being loaded
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15:36 jaffa4 figured out all modules had to be recompiled...
15:37 jaffa4 not just one I changed
15:37 * araujo read "rumors" around here that we might get a beta for Sept ... for what?, rakudo?
15:37 vendethiel "could not find A::B in ...." <- where did I "use A::B", please , rakudo?
15:38 jaffa4 jnthn:  here it is https://gist.github.com/ja​ffa4/94c0325bddf927294142
15:38 ugexe rakudo now gives errors you will make in the future
15:40 jnthn jaffa4: Hmmm
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15:40 jnthn jaffa4: I suspect it's about pulling in NQP code
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15:41 jaffa4 in compiled code
15:41 Ven m: class Actions{ method outer-expr:expr($/) { } }; # <- that's a valid rule name, but not a valid method one?
15:41 camelia rakudo-moar 4b5e19: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/MMtun8cVXn␤Colon pair value '$/' too complex to use in name␤at /tmp/MMtun8cVXn:1␤------> 3Actions{ method outer-expr:expr($/) { } 7⏏5}; # <- that's a valid rule name, but no␤»
15:41 jnthn jaffa4: If you rename your modules to Perl6X::Parsing and Perl6X::Tracer, do things get better?
15:41 Ven std: class Actions{ method outer-expr:expr($/) { } }; # just trying...
15:41 camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 139m␤»
15:41 Ven Right, seems to be a bug in rakudo then..?
15:42 Ven that's probably already been reported, though.
15:42 jnthn Ven: Not a bug, you need whitespace
15:42 Ven jnthn: how does std do it?
15:42 jnthn Ven: It's taking your ($/) as the value of the colonpair
15:42 jnthn Ven: Because it only parses
15:43 jnthn Ven: Or maybe it cheats and stringifies and actually creates a method literally called 'outer-expr:expr($/)' :)
15:43 Ven m: class Actions{ method outer-expr:expr ($/) { } }; # "need whitespace"?
15:43 camelia rakudo-moar 4b5e19: ( no output )
15:43 Ven uh, that doesn't work on my local rakudo
15:43 jnthn std: class Actions{ method outer-expr:expr($a) { $a } }
15:43 camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Variable $a is not predeclared at /tmp/2peN3NspoM line 1:␤------> 3s Actions{ method outer-expr:expr($a) { 7⏏5$a } }␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:00 139m␤»
15:44 jnthn That's how you can see STD is parsing it the same way as Rakudo
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15:45 Ven indeed. thanks
15:45 jaffa4 jnthn:  no
15:47 jnthn jaffa4: OK, so you can remove everything from Perl6::Parsing except the two two lines and still have the bug?
15:51 skids jnthn: I left some comments on your S17 gist, not that I've used the async API much yet.
15:51 jaffa4 jnthn:  correction.. the problem disappears then
15:51 vendethiel grrr. perl6 was showing the next one as an error
15:51 Ven I mean, rakudo.
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15:52 jaffa4 jnthn:  ao renaming to Perl6X helped
15:52 Ven std: class Actions{ method outer-expr:bad($/) {}; method outer-expr:expr ($/) { } };
15:52 camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 141m␤»
15:52 Ven m: class Actions{ method outer-expr:bad($/) {}; method outer-expr:expr ($/) { } };
15:52 camelia rakudo-moar 4b5e19: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/cHZZgXHpOr␤Colon pair value '$/' too complex to use in name␤at /tmp/cHZZgXHpOr:1␤------> 3ss Actions{ method outer-expr:bad($/) {}7⏏5; method outer-expr:expr ($/) { } };␤»
15:52 Ven ^ if you try that in a multiline file, it'll error out on ":expr ($/)", making it hard to debug
15:53 jnthn jaffa4: aha, OK. Then it's probably an issue involving namespaces shared between NQP code and Perl 6 code.
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15:54 jaffa4 jnthn:  how should I work?  Is this a bug?
15:55 masak araujo: no, a birthday beta for *Perl 6*.
15:55 masak araujo: and a 6.0 for Christmas.
15:55 jnthn jaffa4: I suggest you don't use the namespace "Perl6::" in your modules.
15:56 jnthn jaffa4: It may be fixable, but it seems that "use a module from NQP" is a necesary ingredient to see this
15:57 timotimo could very well be that having an nqp module with Perl6:: installs a "Perl6" object in the global namespace that doesn't understand methods
15:57 timotimo and later adding another class to Perl6:: and then trying to get it back out could go asplode
15:57 jnthn I suspect it's that and also that the linking logic doesn't know how to merge NQP namespaces with Perl 6 ones
15:57 timotimo mhm
15:58 timotimo it's not exactly a common thing to want to have
15:58 jnthn *nod*
15:59 jnthn Generally, the only reason to do these things is because we didn't setttle on any standard API for them yet
16:01 jaffa4 jnthn: being able to import under another name could help
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16:15 araujo masak, nice :)
16:15 ugexe at first thought, importing under another name could be a cool thing
16:17 ugexe should Proc::Async give a better error on jvm other than 'Cannot find symbol &Async'?
16:18 timotimo it might be nice to get "cannot find &async inside Proc" there
16:18 jnthn We could install a stub there that ways it's NYI
16:22 jaffa4 jnthn:  so are you planning to do something about it?
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16:23 jnthn jaffa4: Not right now. I suggest picking a different namespace; I'm not sure Perl6:: is a wise choice anyway.
16:23 jaffa4 jnthn: what is the wise choice?
16:24 jnthn jaffa4: Given what you're writing is heavily tied to Rakudo's internals, you may want to pick a name along those lines
16:24 * masak .oO( "you've got to learn how to find things out for yourself!" --- "...how do I do that?" -- ":/" )
16:24 masak :P
16:25 ugexe that would certainly help. 'signal' is another one where i've needed to get around missing symbols between VMs
16:25 jnthn jaffa4: I called the Rakudo debugger frontend Rakudo::Debugger::UI::CommandLine, for example
16:25 ugexe i.e. sub signal-jvm($) { Supply.new }; my $signal-handler = &::("signal") ~~ Failure ?? &::("signal-jvm") !! &::("signal"); my $sig-resize = ::("Signal::SIGWINCH"); $signal-handler.($sig-resize).act:
16:25 ugexe if i want to use signal code if its running under moar, or not use signal code on jvm
16:25 Alina-malina joined #perl6
16:28 jaffa4 jnthn: will Rakudo::Perl6::Parse wprk?
16:31 jnthn jaffa4: Should do
16:33 JimmyZ_ Perl6X:: 😊
16:37 ugexe or dont separate the namespaces at all: Perl6Parser
16:39 Alina-malina joined #perl6
16:41 * jnthn away for a bit
16:43 * geekosaur first wonders if the emoticon is part of the namespace, then wonders if exception namespace should be 😭
16:45 geekosaur (there is actually some seriousness behind that last part: I wonder about the wisdom of commandeering X)
16:46 BenGoldberg Maybe the exception namespace should be 💩
16:47 JimmyZ_ Perl6 eXtend
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17:01 skids geekosaur: You'd rather "class X" was available to run afoul of infix X?
17:05 skids .oO(ALL YOUR ALLCAPS ARE BELONG TO 6)
17:10 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
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17:23 timotimo skids: but a class only appears in term position, not infix position :)
17:24 skids timotimo: In well formed code.  But if your code is well formed, you won't be confused by it :-)
17:24 timotimo fair enough
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18:27 lizmat good *, #perl6!
18:28 * lizmat notices CPU / wallclock time of spectest went up by ~10% sometime in the past week
18:28 masak \o, lizmat
18:29 lizmat masak o/
18:30 lizmat before: Files=1024, Tests=45592, 189 wallclock secs (11.67 usr  3.66 sys + 1077.30 cusr 82.90 csys = 1175.53 CPU)
18:30 lizmat now: Files=1025, Tests=45628, 211 wallclock secs (12.08 usr  3.91 sys + 1226.55 cusr 101.71 csys = 1344.25 CPU)
18:30 domidumont joined #perl6
18:31 * masak hopes someone has the tuits to bisect that slowdown
18:32 lizmat there was one NQP bump in that period, I guess that would need to be checked first
18:33 masak sounds reasonable.
18:34 lizmat hmmm... there were actually 2 bumps ...  one for LTM fixes
18:34 masak that sounds like a very likely suspect.
18:35 lizmat hmmm... raw startup seems to have bumped similarly
18:35 lizmat .12 now on my machine, it used to be <  .1 not too long ago  :-(
18:45 lizmat can't find any obvious reasons that would explain the increase in startup time
18:46 moritz \o
18:46 * moritz back from a weekend in Bruxelles
18:47 timotimo lizmat: potentially the "add &?ROUTINE to every routine" change made a big impact
18:47 lizmat ah...  hmm....
18:47 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:48 timotimo but 10% seems excessive for that
18:55 * lizmat is trying spectest without 3db9326bda8d843eb2e7ad
18:55 masak moritz: welcome back!
18:55 masak moritz: how was Bruxelles?
18:55 masak or, um, "comment etait Bruxelles?", I guess.
18:55 yqt joined #perl6
19:00 lizmat "hoe was het in Brussel?"
19:00 masak haha, it's like Swedish but spelled funny :P
19:00 masak "hur var det i Bryssel?"
19:01 lizmat yeah...  just like Dutch, but spelled funny  :-)
19:01 atroxaper joined #perl6
19:01 masak the grass is always spelled funny on the other side, I guess.
19:01 lizmat yeah...
19:01 lizmat one of my funniest moments in Sweden was seeing Holy Grail in a cinema
19:02 lizmat with Swedish subtitles in the Møøse section
19:02 masak I'm pretty sure I've seen such subtitles on TV at some point.
19:03 masak similarly, I own a copy of "Harrius Potter et Philosophi Lapis"
19:03 masak sometimes I go looking for the spells they use, to see how they were translated from fake Latin into Latin :P
19:04 telex joined #perl6
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19:09 japhb masak: Does Hermione's correction of the pronunciation of Wingardium Leviosa still make sense?
19:09 tinyblak joined #perl6
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19:12 masak japhb: do you know offhand which chapter it's in?
19:13 moritz masak: nice; not as hot as here :-)
19:13 masak japhb: (I remember it being in the movie, but don't remember if it's in the book, or if it's actual dialogue in the book)
19:13 amurf joined #perl6
19:15 lizmat afk for a bit&
19:19 jnthn lizmat: The main slowdown was the LTM thing, I'm afraid
19:19 jnthn lizmat: I don't have much idea what to do about that; we had the wrong semantics before.
19:19 jnthn lizmat: So we don't really want to undo it.
19:19 jnthn lizmat: I was hoping Parsing Wizard Larry may have an idea :)
19:20 masak jnthn: that's fine for the longer spectest time. but startup was slowed down 1000% :/
19:20 jnthn masak: um...what?
19:20 jnthn That doesn't match what I see at all
19:20 masak um, sorry. misread what lizmat wrote.
19:20 jnthn masak: .1 vs .12 is not 1000% :P
19:20 masak from < .1 to .12, which at least seems significant
19:21 jnthn Stop with the category theory, and go redo arithmetic :P
19:21 masak yeah, I fail at reading, apparently
19:21 jnthn Yeah, I wonder if it's because our NFAs got bigger
19:21 BenGoldberg m: ((.12 - .1) / .1).say;
19:21 camelia rakudo-moar 4b5e19: OUTPUT«0.2␤»
19:21 jnthn And yeah, it's significant.
19:21 BenGoldberg 20%
19:22 jnthn But again, I dunno what to do about it. It's not really a win to be fast and wrong...
19:22 raiph joined #perl6
19:22 jnthn So will have to spend some time digging deeper I guess
19:24 jdv79 im a bit confused on the 6 fund and jnthns req.  the req was for 10k usd and didnt liz put up 10k usd?  so why the call for more?
19:25 masak jdv79: because the grant is ending?
19:25 jdv79 and how much more?
19:26 timotimo 10x as much as before, please
19:26 masak yes, someone please fund jnthn forever :)
19:26 jdv79 for real
19:26 masak jdv79: haven't seen a sum.
19:28 jdv79 perhaps its time to figure that
19:29 jnthn jdv79: The 10k was enough to fund 250 hours of work. I've currently done 205 hours under the grant.
19:30 jdv79 is there a new grant coming?
19:30 jnthn jdv79: https://6guts.wordpress.com/ has some more details
19:31 jnthn jdv79: The goal is to do another grant after this one in the same style, yes.
19:32 jdv79 nice.  i look forward to it.
19:33 masak we all do \o/
19:33 jnthn I basically arranged to drop to ~50% at my $dayjob for the rest of 2015, and have the rest of my time available for Perl 6 work. :)
19:35 jnthn Also, well past the 100 RT tickets resolved mark on the current grant :)
19:36 jdv79 is pmichaud fed by the 6 fund for the glr?
19:37 jnthn No
19:39 jdv79 weird; ok.  that's probably the most important thing to me at this point.
19:39 jdv79 how generous
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20:01 jnthn I may jump in and help with GLR things once I'm done with multi-dim array stuffs.
20:02 jnthn ooh yay, tomorrow will be cooler weather.
20:07 xtreak Any intro material abt graphemes and their advantages?
20:09 masak xtreak: well, unless you've seen http://www.joelonsoftware.​com/articles/Unicode.html -- you should give it a read.
20:10 masak it somehow doesn't mention the word "grapheme", though. but it's an essential read.
20:10 jnthn When I was implementing the NFG stuff I did some writing on it also
20:10 masak xtreak: this seems relevant, and canonical: http://www.unicode.org/reports/t​r29/#Grapheme_Cluster_Boundaries
20:12 * masak is reminded from that page that devanagari is insane
20:12 xtreak Thanks masak i read joel article but need a refresh on it.. I will look into it..
20:12 arnsholt xtreak: Basicall, a grapheme is what you would call "a single character"; that is, a base thing plus anything that works like an accent or diacritic
20:13 masak arnsholt: a codepoint also has claim on the description "a single character", IMHO.
20:13 arnsholt Yeah, thus the quotes
20:13 masak arnsholt: the difference is that the grapheme is what the reader perceives to be a single character on screen/paper.
20:14 arnsholt A codepoint is what Unicode calls a character, but grapheme is what a human (who isn't a computer scientist) would call a character
20:14 arnsholt Yeah, what you said
20:14 jnthn A codepoint is a single codepoint :P
20:14 masak I said no tautology club!
20:14 jnthn .oO( if you like it shoulda put a combining ring on it :P )
20:19 masak doesn't quite have the same ring to it
20:19 * masak .oO( if you like it shoulda made it have the same ring to it )
20:20 nwc10 is this the hook from which we hang a series of puns?
20:20 nwc10 there's beena grave shortage recently
20:20 nwc10 the situation is getting accute
20:21 jnthn I'm a dire critic of these puns and they get low marks from me.
20:22 masak your puns are all very sicilicus
20:22 nwc10 we're doing the best we can, given the circumflex we find ourselves in.
20:22 masak I wish we could take a shortcut and circumflex them all
20:23 masak dang, nwc10 was slightly more acute than I was
20:23 masak should be more breve next time
20:23 dalek Inline-Perl5: b4318ce | hoelzro++ | lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6:
20:23 dalek Inline-Perl5: Remove .so copying workaround
20:23 dalek Inline-Perl5:
20:23 dalek Inline-Perl5: Rakudo no longer has this problem, so filling up /tmp with .so files
20:23 dalek Inline-Perl5: is no longer needed
20:23 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inl​ine-Perl5/commit/b4318ced4f
20:23 dalek Inline-Perl5: 2cab928 | niner++ | lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6:
20:23 dalek Inline-Perl5: Merge pull request #33 from hoelzro/master
20:23 dalek Inline-Perl5:
20:23 dalek Inline-Perl5: Remove .so copying workaround
20:23 dalek Inline-Perl5: Gladly! Thanks for the help :)
20:23 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inl​ine-Perl5/commit/2cab928770
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21:04 ggoebel2 jnthn: any status update on your funding?
21:05 bin_005 joined #perl6
21:05 ggoebel2 I would be willing to shoot off some emails to leaders of perl mongers groups asking them to pass a hat, but I'm not sure that would be considered kosher.
21:10 vendethiel ggoebel2: it's been accepted
21:11 ggoebel2 that's good news! where was it reported?
21:12 vendethiel ggoebel2: http://news.perlfoundation.org/2015/0​5/perl-6-development-grant-succe.html
21:12 vendethiel in may already :-).
21:13 jnthn vendethiel: I think ggoebel2 is talking about further funding to keep it going
21:13 vendethiel oh! my bad.
21:13 ggoebel2 right... "Funding is being requested for an initial 3 month period, with a view to extending the grant provided the work done under it is successful and funds are available."
21:15 cognominal joined #perl6
21:15 jnthn ggoebel2: Not a status update as in "I can publicly say who and what", but something good is in the pipeline. :)
21:17 ggoebel2 good. thank you for everything you do. And everyone else actively, passively, and otherwise working to support perl6
21:18 * vendethiel nods in agreement, @perl6-people>>++ :)
21:19 jnthn :)
21:20 * jnthn is gonna go rest, hopefully well, so he can do useful stuff tomorrow :)
21:20 jnthn 'night o/
21:20 vendethiel g'night!
21:22 inokenty joined #perl6
21:22 masak what ggoebel2 said.
21:28 AlexDaniel yes
21:29 AlexDaniel timotimo: 2014.28: Title goes here. Fill out under all circumstances!
21:29 AlexDaniel you know, something is wrong with that title!
21:32 masak think it's an in-joke.
21:33 AlexDaniel masak: hmm?
21:33 skids Now how to make it an autopun...
21:33 AlexDaniel masak: are we talking about the year number?
21:34 masak oh! no, I missed that.
21:34 masak that's certainly wrong. s/2014/2015/ :)
21:35 AlexDaniel I tend to do that a lot, especially when someone asks my age
21:35 AlexDaniel I just don't know whether it incremented already or not
21:35 AlexDaniel and how many times
21:37 masak ages are very annoying that way.
21:38 skids When you get older it takes longer to answer what your age is.  Because you stopped caring.
21:39 skids But it does make you look senile.
21:40 skids I guess as you approach official retirement age your response time might speed up a bit.
21:42 japhb .oO( 3 years, 4 months, 12 days, 5 hours, and 16 minutes until retirement -- but who's counting? )
21:43 BenGoldberg If you're really lazy, you can say what your birthday and year are, and let the person you're talking to do the math.
21:43 BenGoldberg s/year/birth year/
21:43 masak 'night, #perl6
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22:43 timotimo oh damn, did i write the previous year again?
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