Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-07-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:29 dalek rakudo-star-daily: e54e956 | coke++ | log/ (8 files):
01:29 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
01:29 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/e54e9560f7
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01:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:35 rangerprice m: print "Hello World"
03:35 camelia rakudo-moar 3e88cf: OUTPUT«Hello World»
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05:11 sisar I'm unable to install MoarVM/Rakudo in Cygwin due to pthreds unavailability. Is there a workaround ? Something in which i can ask it to skip building libuv/thred support.
05:11 sisar *pthreads
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06:43 Timbus sisar, pretty sure libuv is a hard dependency for moarvm
06:43 azawawi hi
06:43 Timbus dunno about turning off pthreads for libuv though.. might? be possible
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06:46 nwc10 sisar: is there a reason why you want a Cygwin Rakudo particularly? MoarVM (and Rakudo) build for native Win32, and there are MSI installers for download at http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/
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07:00 ChoHag How can I pass the contents of a hash as named arguments to a function?
07:02 nine m: sub foo(:$bar) { say $bar }; my %h = bar => 1; foo(|%h);
07:02 camelia rakudo-moar 3e88cf: OUTPUT«1␤»
07:02 ChoHag Hmm I tried |%var before. Why does it work this time?
07:02 sisar nwc10: oh, ok. No showstopper reasons. Only that I'm more comfortable in Linux, but currently forced to use Windows. Ok, I'll try the Win32 version.
07:02 sisar thanks
07:03 sisar which MSI should I use ? JIT or no JIT ?
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07:04 * sisar goes with 64-bit JIT
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07:24 RabidGravy morning!
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07:26 FROGGS mornang RabidGravy
07:26 RabidGravy Rarr!
07:27 FROGGS :P
07:30 dalek rakudo/nom: d35b76f | ugexe++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/Installation.pm:
07:30 dalek rakudo/nom: [bugfix] /bin wrapper requires CURLI object
07:30 dalek rakudo/nom:
07:30 dalek rakudo/nom: CompUnitRepo::Local::Installation /bin wrappers work again.
07:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d35b76fe2b
07:30 dalek rakudo/nom: 646b90f | FROGGS++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/Installation.pm:
07:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #483 from ugexe/patch-14
07:30 dalek rakudo/nom:
07:30 dalek rakudo/nom: [bugfix] /bin wrapper requires CURLI object
07:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/646b90f2cd
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07:56 brrt \o
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08:04 jkva o/
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08:36 * lizmat plugs a new Perl 6 Weekly again: https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2015/07/27​/2015-2930-fastforwarding-to-the-present/
08:36 timotimo lizmat++
08:36 Ulti lizmat its already on reddit :)
08:36 Ulti lizmat++
08:36 lizmat ah?
08:37 lizmat ok, cause I did not see anybody react to my announcement at all last Monday night
08:38 lizmat ah good, no reactions on reddit either  :-)
08:39 moritz lizmat++
08:40 DrForr I clicked 'like' on FB :)
08:40 lizmat :-)
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08:40 * lizmat doesn't do FB
08:40 DrForr Good for you :)
08:40 * timotimo neither
08:41 lizmat well, I know what a time sink IRC can be...   don't want to take away more time from rakudo at this point
08:41 virtualsue thanks for the prompt, lizmat
08:42 virtualsue i'm going to shuffle that past london.pm a bit
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08:44 DrForr Tweeted just in case...
08:45 FROGGS lizmat++
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08:49 FROGGS lizmat++ again # harry potter reference
08:49 lizmat FROGGS: I didn't make that one up, I just passed it along
08:49 lizmat but yeah, it was *very* descriptive of the situation at OSCON
08:50 FROGGS then you get the karma for passing it along to good ol' europe :o)
08:50 lizmat you really had to be persistent to find Diagonal Alley
08:50 lizmat :-)
08:50 lizmat thank you
08:50 ChoHag Can a role have a BUILD (or otherwise fiddle around at construction time) without interfering with construction of its consuming class or co-consumed roles?
08:51 lizmat ChoHag: don't think so
08:51 lizmat either the class has a BUILD, in which case the role's one will be ignored
08:52 lizmat and if it doesn't, importing the BUILD will mask the default (inherited) BUILD
08:52 lizmat on which the class may well depend
08:53 ChoHag So a role's options for acting during construction are nothing at all or everything?
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08:54 lizmat well, if the class doesn't have its own BUILD
08:54 itz_ morning
08:54 ChoHag That's the 'nothing at all' option.
08:54 lizmat you *could* "nextsame" it from the role's BUILD, I guess
08:54 ChoHag Hmm
08:54 lizmat if it does have its own BUILD, you're basically without options, I think
08:54 lizmat itz_ o/
08:55 moritz you could nextame in BUILDALL
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08:58 * FROGGS .oO( you could nex t'aime BUILDALL )
08:59 lizmat moritz: aren't we really getting in rakudo specific internals land there ?
09:00 ChoHag Is BUILDALL rakudo-specific?
09:01 lizmat the string BUILDALL does not appear in the specs
09:01 lizmat and there are no tests for it in roast
09:02 lizmat or in the sanity test
09:02 lizmat so, it's at least in a grey area  :-)
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09:26 ChoHag How is code split onto multiple lines now?
09:26 ChoHag \ didn't cut it.p
09:28 ChoHag SPecifically, @list.grep({...}).map({...})
09:28 moritz lizmat: it's documented in perl6/doc
09:29 arnsholt ChoHag: Just a newline?
09:29 moritz m: say <a b c>.grep(True)\  .map(&uc)
09:29 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«Earlier failure:␤ Cannot use Bool as Matcher with '.grep'.  Did you mean to use $_ inside a block?␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/jfUa2uw66L:1␤␤Final error:␤ Type check failed in binding $s; expected 'Cool' but got 'Failure'␤  in block <unit> at /tm…»
09:29 moritz m: say <a b c>.grep({1})\  .map(&uc)
09:29 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«A B C␤»
09:29 moritz ChoHag: works with \ here
09:29 ChoHag Hmm
09:29 arnsholt Oh, right. The invocant dot
09:29 moritz m: say <a b c>.grep({1})\␤.map(&uc)
09:29 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«A B C␤»
09:29 moritz even with a proper newline
09:30 lizmat FWIW, this is one of the things that Slang::Tuxic "fixes"
09:30 timotimo i think ChoHag is wondering about the REPL?
09:30 ChoHag Ah it's self which is confusintg it.
09:30 ChoHag self.\
09:30 ChoHag self\↵.foo
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09:32 moritz m: class A { method x { self\␤.new } }; say A.x
09:32 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/8F5UhA_zRj␤Variable '&self' is not declared␤at /tmp/8F5UhA_zRj:1␤------> 3class A { method x { 7⏏5self\␤»
09:33 nine lizmat: I'm not sure it's true that a role's BUILD is ignored if the class has one. I came across the same question yesterday and my role's BUILD still gets called after adding one to the class. I just found no way to get the default BUILD in addition to the role's.
09:35 lizmat m: role A { method BUILD() { say "A" } }; class B does A { method BUILD { say "B" } }; A.new   # seems wrong ??
09:36 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«A␤»
09:36 lizmat m: role A { method BUILD() { say "A" } }; class B does A { method BUILD { say "B" } }; B.new   # duh
09:36 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«B␤»
09:37 lizmat m: role A { method BUILD() { say "A" } }; class B does A { method BUILD { say "B"; self.A::BUILD } }; B.new  # solution ?
09:37 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«B␤A␤»
09:37 lizmat ChoHag: ^^
09:37 FROGGS m: role A { mutli method BUILD() { say "A" } }; class B does A { method BUILD { say "B" } }; B.new # lol
09:37 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'collisions'␤»
09:38 lizmat mutli ?
09:38 FROGGS tpyo
09:38 ChoHag Grr seems this POS can't do unicode as well as I thought.
09:39 lizmat ChoHag: ??
09:39 ChoHag Something in thi chain of terminal/ssh/tmux/irssi is confused by all these weird characters.
09:39 ChoHag My money's on irssi.
09:40 ChoHag Makes copying text a PITA because the mouse is buried at the back of the desk.
09:40 * lizmat loves Textual on OS X
09:41 * ChoHag holds no love for OS X.
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09:41 * lizmat hugs ChoHag anyway  :-)
09:42 RabidGravy ugexe++ # just made me make new versions of nine modules
09:42 timotimo you remade nine's modules?
09:43 RabidGravy :-p 9
09:43 ChoHag The above don't work if B is a role punned into classhood.
09:43 ChoHag 'No concretization found for A'
09:45 lizmat ChoHag: so A and B are both roles ?
09:45 RabidGravy it was correctly pointed that if one has a Build.pm with "class Build is Panda::Builder { ... }" then "panda" should be in the build-depends for the convenience of other installers than panda
09:46 ChoHag Probably. I'm not convinced one way or the other on the inheritence vs. composition.
09:46 ChoHag Thanks, whoever did that.
09:47 ChoHag I can see nothing expcept that you did it on purpose.
09:48 lizmat ChoHag: I now [Tux] well enough to know that he didn't do that on purpose
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09:48 ChoHag_ 'ǿȵ ṗụṝṕõsḛ'?
09:48 lizmat please don't attribute to malice what you can attribute to NFG happy people
09:49 lizmat [Tux] is one of the people who figured how to print (ASCII) text  upside down using readily available Unicode characters
09:49 ChoHag No Freaking Good? Non-Functional Gear?
09:49 lizmat Normalization Form Grapheme
09:49 ChoHag Not Fully Guaranteed?
09:50 lizmat it was one of the three main things to be done before we can release Perl 6
09:50 lizmat and jnthn++ did it
09:50 [TuxCM] ChoHag, what is your problem with my Unicode message?
09:50 jkva w00t
09:50 ChoHag It screwed up my terminal somehow and all I saw was that.
09:50 ChoHag I think irssi's a bit shit and is fighting somehow with tmux.
09:51 [TuxCM] maybe your terminal in not (fully) Unicote capable?
09:51 jkva ChoHag: reminds me of when PuTTY borks on some unicode chars
09:51 lizmat wish jnthn had put is OSDC.no NFG lightning talks slides online
09:51 [TuxCM] sorry for that
09:51 ChoHag Something isn't.
09:51 ChoHag I don't care anywhere near enough to fix it.
09:51 ChoHag If something goes wrong enough there's /clear and logfiles.
09:52 lizmat .tell jnthn seems http://jnthn.net/articles.shtml is in need of an update :-)
09:52 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
09:52 [TuxCM] FWIW that message was the output of a "normal" ASCII text filtered through my 'uchar -d' script that puts random (valid) diacriticals on every letter
09:52 ChoHag But out of curiosity, can you do whatever you did again so I can see what my non-tmux'd alter-ego makes of it?
09:52 ChoHag Oh looks like it was a quit message...
09:52 [TuxCM] ḞẄÎẆ ƭḫåţ ṁéŝʂąğé ẇäŝ ťḫę òūťṕứṯ ǫƒ ặ ȵóɾṁạł ǞȘĆȊȊ ťěẍṭ ḟĭłƫḛɽeḋ ẗḧṟớŭǧḫ ḿỳ 'ūȼẖąȓ -ḓ' ʂćɾïṗʈ ʈḧȁṭ ṕûťş ɍáɳḓȫḿ (ṿąłįḋ) ƌįáčrîƫịçằḷș ȫñ ěʋȇɾẏ ľȅṭťêṙ
09:53 ChoHag Yeah it's tmux doing something.
09:53 [TuxCM] yes, it was quit message. I rebooted my box after some security fixes
09:53 ChoHag Quelle suprise it's the thing which tries to do magic.
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10:05 ChoHag I suppose role A; role B does A; class C does B;; is the same as role A; role B; class C does A does B; ?
10:05 ChoHag Mostly the same?
10:05 ChoHag Not even remotely the same?
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10:12 lizmat I think they should be the same...
10:13 lizmat as we don't have any collision resolution logic built in
10:13 lizmat you need to do that yourself
10:13 ChoHag_ I noticed the lack...
10:14 lizmat afaik, it has been a conscious choice to have developer solve that "manually"
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10:17 timotimo right, that way you won't be surprised when an upstream role suddenly changes to give you a collision
10:17 timotimo or rather: you won't suddenly get different behavior; instead, you'll be asked to make a decision
10:25 RabidGravy yeah it's documented to be like that in http://docs.perl6.org/langua​ge/objects#Role_Application and everything
10:27 * lizmat reported the mutli LTA error as #125716
10:28 * azawawi reads about http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/comp​ute-stick/compute-stick-product-brief.html :)
10:31 itz_ oh nice it has wifi
10:31 azawawi yup
10:32 azawawi 8GB flash memory on ubuntu version
10:32 * azawawi wonders how much time 'rakudo build moar' will take on that atom processor :)
10:33 azawawi on my RPi, it is like forever lol
10:33 azawawi and fails
10:33 azawawi only 512MB on the RPi B model
10:33 RabidGravy It's a tad quicker on the RPi 2
10:34 azawawi did you try it?
10:34 itz_ Quad Core Atom is probably OK
10:34 * azawawi looks up its performance specs
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10:35 RabidGravy the "panda smoke" gets twatted by the oom killer after a while but it works and all
10:35 azawawi 2MB cache http://ark.intel.com/products/80274/Intel-At​om-Processor-Z3735F-2M-Cache-up-to-1_83-GHz
10:36 RabidGravy I have a RPi B with Fedora on and it will build and run rakudo but ridiculously slow
10:36 RabidGravy I also have a gigabyte brix with an Atom and that builds fine
10:37 * virtualsue refrains from digging out her slowest and oldest machines for a test
10:37 itz_ I used to build on a N450 which was fine after a bit of wait
10:37 virtualsue itz: maybe you should try on the amiga
10:38 azawawi for $17 that processor provides CPU + GPU... not bad :)
10:38 RabidGravy I binned an Amiga a few years ago
10:38 itz_ virtualsue: or moarvm on the cc65 :)
10:39 * itz_ has been unbinning old hardware :| off ebay
10:40 jdv79 building rakudo on my lame vm at rackspace takes forever
10:40 azawawi aha.. that atom processor is ranked #1468 with a score of 884 on http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php
10:40 jdv79 old gen
10:40 jdv79 i tried on  rpi b and no cide
10:40 RabidGravy I think the oldest computer I have now is a turn of the century dell latitude which I "liberated" from Via networks
10:40 jdv79 *dice
10:40 RabidGravy it works for me
10:41 RabidGravy might be the Pidora vs debian or something
10:41 jdv79 compiling on my 1.5y old laptop takes a while even
10:42 jdv79 wonder if setting hacking will ever be faster
10:42 azawawi so basically it is like an Intel Core Duo T2500 @ 2.00GHz
10:43 itz_ has anyone tried gcc5? yet
10:43 * virtualsue regularly clears out old equipment and is only occasionally fleetingly sorry about it
10:43 jdv79 right now its like 75s for me
10:44 azawawi single core performance is like an Intel Celeron M 1.00GHz... pretty slow lol
10:44 jdv79 i think mine is "Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3537U CPU @ 2.00GHz"
10:45 jdv79 4 core looks like
10:45 RabidGravy actually I lied the gigabyte brix has a "Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU  N2807  @ 1.58GHz"
10:46 * azawawi goes back to working on Atom::Electron after looking at the atom processor lol
10:46 jdv79 on my shit vm it takes more like 15m
10:47 jdv79 is there a way to throw past an upper/outer level CATCH?
10:47 itz_ does gcc even use extras cores?
10:48 azawawi gcc -j num_of_jobs # maybe?
10:48 jdv79 the middle manager is causing trouble
10:51 nine itz_: I have gcc 5.1 on my desktop at home. Everyting seems to work just fine.
10:52 azawawi im starting to write tests for Atom::Electron so that the test is executed only if you have electron installed and skipped otherwise
11:00 RabidGravy I've given most of my modules a Build.pm that blows out if the module won't work in the environment it finds itself in
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11:33 azawawi question, what's the difference between END: { } and END { } ?
11:33 * azawawi spots a buggy pattern that rakudo did not warn about
11:34 nine m: END: { say "yes"; }; say "no";
11:34 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«yes␤no␤»
11:34 nine m: END { say "yes"; }; say "no";
11:34 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«no␤yes␤»
11:34 nine END: is a label followed by some anonymous block
11:35 * azawawi confused
11:36 azawawi well 1-hour hunting an IPC bug due to it lol
11:36 moritz azawawi: END: is just a label
11:37 azawawi i wish if rakudo could warn about it though
11:37 moritz like in   OUTER: for @a -> $x { for @$x -> $y { next OUTER if $y == 0 } }
11:37 itz_ maybe using phasor text for a label should warn?
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11:41 azawawi first test for A:E:clipboard api done :)
11:41 azawawi https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-atom-​electron/blob/master/t/02-clipboard.t
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11:58 azawawi is there anything like https://metacpan.org/pod/File::Which in Perl 6?
11:58 itz_ joined #perl6
12:11 * azawawi decides to port https://metacpan.org/pod/File::Which :)
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12:25 * itz_ wonders why he is trying to parse XML for fun :|
12:25 itz_ I'm getting plenty of rakudo debugger practice anyway
12:26 moritz itz_: sounds like a mild form of Mental Masochism
12:26 RabidGravy azawawi, top plan
12:34 dalek ecosystem: afa7a6a | azawawi++ | META.list:
12:34 dalek ecosystem: Add File::Which
12:34 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/afa7a6a68f
12:36 * azawawi notices a BSON/META.info error in http://ecosystem-api.p6c.org/update.log
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12:43 leont perl6 -e 'my $proc = Proc::Async.new("perl6", "-e", "exit 2").start.result.perl.say
12:43 leont It seems Proc::Async is passing the status as exitcode, and it gets confused because there's not value for signal.
12:44 timotimo so, i'm wondering (still? again?) if libuv supports starting a process while handing over more file descriptors than just 0, 1 and 2
12:44 azawawi what $*DISTRO.name and $*KERNEL.name on a cygwin rakudo? anyone?
12:47 leont I think I know how to fix it, but developing and testing from a rakudobrew checkout feels wrong
12:51 * lizmat looks at it
12:51 timotimo oh, way cool, libuv has a feature for handing over/sharing any number of file descriptors
12:51 timotimo i wish this to be reflected in Proc::Async and run/shell api, please
12:53 lizmat timotimo: won't this need some nqp hooks ?
12:53 timotimo very likely
12:53 timotimo but i don't know how the current spawn works on the nqp level
12:53 timotimo i was about to open one of the relevant files right now
12:54 lizmat nqp::spawnprocasync(
12:57 lizmat hmmm... looks like the callbacks are not getting called ?
13:01 hoelzro good morning #perl6
13:03 timotimo i'll be afk for two hours or so
13:04 ChoHag_ How do I constrain the elements of a hash/array/etc.?
13:04 ChoHag_ ISTR reading that I can stick a where clause in, but I can't find it.
13:04 lizmat my Int @a; my Int %hash
13:06 ChoHag_ That does the hash and the array. What about the etc.?
13:06 lizmat my Int $a ?
13:06 ChoHag_ How do I have a SetHash of Foo::Bar's.
13:07 lizmat hmmm.... good point
13:07 lizmat I guess you should be able to parameterize a SetHash
13:07 hoelzro m: 1.map({ if $^arg == 2 { } else { say "arg = $^arg" } }); Nil
13:07 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«arg = False␤»
13:08 hoelzro is $^arg supposed to be False in the else block? I didn't think that if/else altered placeholder variables
13:09 jnthn hoelzro: it's an (unusual) way to write the else -> $thingy { ... }
13:09 yoleaux 09:52Z <lizmat> jnthn: seems http://jnthn.net/articles.shtml is in need of an update :-)
13:09 ChoHag_ Can attributes or variables be defined with a where clause or am I thinking of Moose?
13:09 jnthn m: 1.map({ if $^arg == 2 { } else { say "arg = $arg" } }); Nil # one alternative
13:09 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«arg = 1␤»
13:10 hoelzro jnthn: so that's expected behavior, then?
13:10 jnthn hoelzro: yes
13:10 hoelzro ok, thanks for confirming!
13:10 lizmat m: subset Foo of Int where * > 42; my Foo @a; @a[0] = 43  # ChoHag_
13:10 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: ( no output )
13:10 lizmat m: subset Foo of Int where * > 42; my Foo @a; @a[0] = 1  # ChoHag_
13:10 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '@a'; expected 'Foo' but got 'Int'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/dudhd_ZFk3:1␤␤»
13:10 jnthn ChoHag_: It certainly works on attributes 'cus I remember implementing it.
13:10 jnthn I think it works for variables too
13:11 jnthn m: class A { has $.x where * > 42 }; A.new(x => 43)
13:11 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: ( no output )
13:11 jnthn m: class A { has $.x where * > 42 }; A.new(x => 42)
13:11 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$!x'; expected '<anon>' but got 'Int'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/O7KPx_sFqm:1␤␤»
13:11 jnthn But you may want to do what lizmat++ showed for a nicer error :)
13:12 ChoHag_ Right.
13:14 ChoHag_ Which compound types can be parameterised?
13:15 jnthn At present, Hash (on key and value, for object types), Array (with value type, for object types), array (with value type, for native types) and Buf (with any native integer type)
13:15 moritz Rational
13:16 jnthn hah, I forgot that one :)
13:16 jnthn moritz++
13:17 azawawi do we have something like this in Perl 6?     stat($filename);     print "Readable\n" if -r _;   # the underscore  that is
13:17 moritz azawawi: no
13:17 azawawi -r _ # to save a system call
13:17 azawawi well i hated it lol and it was confusing lol
13:18 ChoHag_ So something like a type-constrained SetHash is eminently possible but unimplemented?
13:18 azawawi totally unreadable
13:18 moritz azawawi: the proper solution would be have a .stat method that returns a proper Stat object, or something like
13:18 azawawi yup
13:18 ChoHag_ (Or in other words, I don't need to bother writing type-verification code and can simply change the definition when it becomes possible and let perl do the hard work)
13:19 ShimmerFairy If you're checking for a file's readability, I believe  $filename.IO.r  works. (Assuming $filename is a Str)
13:19 ChoHag_ (In the meantime slapping an "alpha code running on alpha code" label and expect users (ie. me) not to break things, exploding spectacularly when they do).
13:19 lizmat m: my $s = SetHash[Int].new   # drawing a blank here, how can I make this to work ?
13:19 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/t35M_wp7Cc␤SetHash cannot be parameterized␤at /tmp/t35M_wp7Cc:1␤------> 3my $s = SetHash[Int]7⏏5.new   # drawing a blank here, how can I␤»
13:20 jnthn lizmat: Either make it a parametric role (the Buf approach) or do what Array does and implement method ^parameterize
13:21 lizmat gotcha
13:21 jnthn lizmat: I'd study the two and see which you think fits best :)
13:21 jnthn lizmat: Hash and Array are awkward to do as roles 'cus of bootstrapping reasons: we need them really early on
13:21 lizmat looking at ^parameterize now
13:22 hoelzro does anyone mind if I merge my Socket.print branch (https://github.com/rakudo/rakud​o/tree/socket-print-not-send)? I didn't hear a ton of support in favor of, but I didn't hear any against either
13:23 lizmat hoelzro++   # it sorta matches my plans in newio, ISTR
13:23 moritz hoelzro: +1
13:25 jnthn hoelzro: I think I suggested it in the first place, which is I guess an implicit +1 from me ;)
13:28 azawawi https://travis-ci.org/azawawi/​perl6-file-which/jobs/73190357  # travis ci ftw :)
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13:35 ChoHag_ Can I mark attributes as required?
13:35 nine m: class Foo { has $.foo is required; }; Foo.new;
13:35 camelia rakudo-moar 646b90: OUTPUT«The attribute '$!foo' is required, but you did not provide a value for it.␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/uEjKGc0l9L:1␤␤»
13:35 ChoHag_ Of course...
13:36 dalek rakudo/nom: 7bda3db | hoelzro++ | src/core/IO/Socket.pm:
13:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Deprecate Socket.send in favor of Socket.print
13:36 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Users may confuse the send method (which is just a Str-friendly wrapper
13:36 dalek rakudo/nom: over write) with send(2), which is subtly different from write(2).  To
13:36 dalek rakudo/nom: avoid this confusion, and open up the possibility of a true send(2)
13:36 dalek rakudo/nom: analogue in the future, I think that the current send should be renamed
13:36 dalek rakudo/nom: to print (thanks to jnthn++ for the suggestion)
13:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7bda3dba62
13:36 azawawi File::Which module is a bit weird for new comers.... any name suggestions?
13:38 RabidGravy File::Whence? ;-)
13:38 azawawi you're basically finding executable paths
13:39 RabidGravy yes
13:39 moritz File::Locate::Executable
13:39 moritz File::Find::Executable
13:39 moritz File::Find::InPath
13:40 azawawi cool thx
13:41 * itz_ need moar club mate
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13:51 hoelzro can a file "re-open" an existing module to add things into it? for example, I have a module Xapian, and I'd like for Xapian::Database and Xapian::Error to live in separate files, but I get a redeclaration warning when I do module Xapian { ... } in both files
13:52 moritz hoelzro: just do a module Xapian::Database { } and a module Xapian::Error { }
13:52 lizmat augment class foo
13:52 lizmat ?
13:52 lizmat ah, ok
13:52 moritz m: module Xapian { }; module Xapian::Database { }
13:52 camelia rakudo-moar 7bda3d: ( no output )
13:54 hoelzro moritz: so class Xapian::Database { ... } if it's a class, then?
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13:59 azawawi panda install File::Which; perl6 -MFile::Which -e 'say which(:exec("perl"))'  # Perl 6 ftw :)
14:00 azawawi now I can test the executable before handing it to Proc::Async :)
14:00 moritz hoelzro: yes
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14:15 RabidGravy is there any reason why Buf.unpack("Z") doesn't strip the trailing \x[0]s like the P5 unpack?
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14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: df4c333 | lizmat++ | src/core/ (6 files):
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: Don't call BUILD ourselves anymore
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: So that BUILD won't need to return self either anymore
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/df4c333716
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14:26 ugexe hoelzro: want to change io::socket::async as well?
14:27 hoelzro ugexe: sure, I must've missed that
14:31 ugexe i wonder if we should update ::Async to use .out/.err/.in like the Proc api (or the other way around)
14:31 DrForr
14:32 azawawi moritz: is this Perl6ish enough https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-atom-el​ectron/blob/master/t/02-clipboard.t#L13 ?
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14:34 leont Why the named argument?
14:35 azawawi im asking my self that also lol
14:40 ugexe you may wish to incorporate whereis/where as well
14:43 azawawi ugexe: where returns all the executables in the path, right?
14:44 ugexe yea. mostly it might make your windows code easier
14:44 ugexe C:\Users\Nick\Documents\GitHub\zef>where perl
14:44 ugexe C:\strawberry\perl\bin\perl.exe
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14:45 FROGGS ugexe: I'd like to see .out/.err/.in for Proc::Async, but then I made the API for Proc, so I'm biased
14:47 azawawi ugexe: which('perl', :all)
14:48 ugexe i mean it could possibly make your modules code easier
14:48 azawawi ugexe: i think im going to change it to File::Find::Executable. File::Which seems too unixish
14:48 leont File::Find:: sounds like it's finding executables in general
14:48 azawawi ugexe: then we need App::pwhich  :)
14:49 azawawi ugexe: API separated from utilities implemented on top of it
14:49 azawawi perfect https://travis-ci.org/azawawi/perl6​-atom-electron/jobs/73201934#L1253 :)
14:49 azawawi it is like Padre's headless testing :)
14:49 leont What's the procedure again for adding dists the the module lists?
14:51 ugexe FROGGS: i prefer the Proc API as well, although im not sure why considering its only 3 letters of difference
14:51 dalek rakudo/nom: 26589f2 | hoelzro++ | src/core/IO/Socket/Async.pm:
14:51 dalek rakudo/nom: Replace send with print on IO::Socket::Async
14:51 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:51 dalek rakudo/nom: For consistency with IO::Socket
14:51 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/26589f2b72
14:52 ugexe leont: pr to https://github.com/perl6/eco​system/blob/master/META.list
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14:58 ugexe only drawback i have against Proc API vs Proc::Aync is method .in does something completely different on a promise
14:58 azawawi leont: submit a pull request to https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem
14:59 azawawi leont: after adding your module to META.list
14:59 azawawi leont: also make sure your META.info is JSON valid via http://jsonlint.com/ :)
14:59 ugexe then swear profusely as you try to figure out why your meta doesnt work
15:00 azawawi ugexe: jsonlint lol
15:00 azawawi ugexe: i hate it lol
15:00 azawawi ugexe: http://ecosystem-api.p6c.org/update.log is your friend
15:01 ugexe if you're lucky. there are other nits, like parsing source-url vs support : { source: '' }, the scheme of the given url, etc
15:01 RabidGravy that's why I always do "panda install ." before I'm done
15:01 azawawi ugexe: also http://ecosystem-api.p6c.org/errors.json
15:02 ugexe ah i didnt know about errors.json
15:02 ugexe panda doesn't require a strict meta file
15:03 ugexe not syntax wise, but it will precompile modules that your meta doesn't `provides` (which maybe you want this)
15:03 * azawawi going home &
15:03 azawawi ugexe: that's why i add .travis.yml also to my modules :)
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15:05 ugexe that doesn't help with `provides` problem i mentioned though
15:05 ugexe well, "problem".
15:12 ugexe would be fun to do a week of exploiting the ecosystem, at the p6 level
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15:16 hoelzro $line ~~ /^ \s ** $indent '}' / # is there a way to get this to match $indent whitespace characters at BOL?
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15:20 jnthn yays, teaching successfully completed :)
15:20 jnthn Now I've pretty much nothing but Perl 6 to worry about for a week or so \o/
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15:21 RabidGravy yay!
15:21 itz_ jnthn++
15:24 anaeem1__ joined #perl6
15:31 hoelzro hooray! jnthn++
15:33 jnthn Gotta fly home first, alas...
15:33 jnthn bbl
15:34 [Coke] I misread that as "fly home first class"
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15:59 RabidGravy "Date is the number of days since January 1st, 4713 BC" what the actual
16:00 Ven joined #perl6
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16:07 RabidGravy so dBase has a Y27504 problem
16:07 * geekosaur recognizes date, shudders
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16:13 lizmat I wonder whether we shouldn't move the functionality of Promise.in(10) to Promise.keep(:in(10))
16:14 lizmat to free up .in on Promises, and therefore reduce confusion with Proc::Async ?
16:14 lizmat *should
16:22 lizmat .tell FROGGS looking at debugging 'Proc::Async.new("perl6", "-e", "exit 2").start.result.perl.say'
16:22 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
16:22 lizmat .tell FROGGS it looks like the "done" callback is not being called, and thus the exit code is never set
16:22 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
16:23 * lizmat stops looking into this further for now
16:28 hoelzro $line ~~ /^ \s ** $indent '}' / # is there a way to get this to match $indent whitespace characters at BOL?
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16:30 lizmat $line ~~ /^ \s ** {$indent} '}' /    # perhaps ?
16:30 lizmat m: my $indent = 4; say "    }" ~~ /^ \s ** {$indent} "}" /   # hoelzro
16:30 camelia rakudo-moar 26589f: OUTPUT«「    }」␤»
16:31 hoelzro ahhhh, that makes sense.
16:31 lizmat m: my $indent = 4; say "   }" ~~ /^ \s ** {$indent} "}" /   # hoelzro
16:31 camelia rakudo-moar 26589f: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
16:31 hoelzro thanks lizmat!
16:31 lizmat not sure whether that made sense or is a workaround  :-)
16:33 * geekosaur thought it had to be either literal or {expr}
16:40 lizmat is there a specific reason why there are so many 'proto method new(|) {*}' in the core setting?
16:43 itz 4713 BC is the date of Creation according to the Church of Dbase?
16:47 spider-mario joined #perl6
16:50 RabidGravy it appears that it's the start of "Julian Time"
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16:56 dalek rakudo/nom: eaf57d7 | lizmat++ | src/core/ (6 files):
16:56 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove superfluous proto method new(|) {*}
16:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/eaf57d77db
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16:57 itz ah Julian Time is used by astronomy oddly
16:57 itz so its not the Eastern Orthodox Church of Dbase
16:59 * lizmat wonders how a year can be a date
17:01 itz it's all explained in http://www.conservapedia.com/Date_of_creation :)
17:01 DrForr Isn't -4713 when the solar and lunar years, ad Metonic cyces all coincide?
17:02 itz "In 1849, the astronomer John F. Herschel turned Scaliger's calendar into the astronomical Julian Date system, taking January 1, 4713 BC as JD=0," from the probably more reliable http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/​125-observational-astronomy/timekeeping/ca​lendars/763-how-was-the-starting-point-for​-the-julian-date-system-chosen-advanced
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17:19 RabidGravy m: enum DataType(Abalone => "A"); my DataType $a = DataType("A"); say $a.perl
17:19 camelia rakudo-moar 26589f: OUTPUT«DataType::Abalone␤»
17:19 RabidGravy anyway, that kind of thing works as a snippet, but fails in my code
17:22 moritz how does it fail?
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17:28 dalek rakudo/nom: f7cdcd9 | lizmat++ | src/core/ (3 files):
17:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Don't call BUILD in new
17:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f7cdcd98cc
17:30 dalek perl6-roast-data: 62d4224 | coke++ | / (9 files):
17:30 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
17:30 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/62d4224cbf
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18:04 rindolf Hi all. Are integers in rakudo-moar automatically converted to bigints?
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18:05 leont Great, coredump due to double-free that doesn't show up on perl6-gdb
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18:06 leont rindolf: that question isn't making sense
18:06 leont Why are you assuming that distinction?
18:07 rindolf leont: don't know - in Perl 5 they are not the same.
18:07 rindolf leont: and I recall something about them lacking support in an earlier version of a perl 6 interpreter.
18:07 rindolf eval: 2 ** 100
18:07 rindolf p6: 2 ** 100
18:07 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: ( no output )
18:08 DrForr m: 2 ** 100
18:08 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: ( no output )
18:08 DrForr Huh.
18:08 leont Stuff that's generally considered a misfeature in perl5 is changed in perl6 ;-)
18:08 leont m: say 2 **100
18:08 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«1267650600228229401496703205376␤»
18:09 rindolf leont: OK, thanks.
18:09 geekosaur well, historically bigints were an add-on to perl5, not part of the core
18:09 moritz we've had bigints since 2011
18:10 geekosaur not too surprising they;re not fully integrated
18:11 moritz the biggest problem in p5 is that ranges aren't overloadable
18:11 moritz so   for (1..100) { say $_ ** $_ } # doesn't use bigints, even if "use bigint;" is in scope
18:12 leont Both python and ruby have had builtin arbitrary sized integers. In the Debian language shootout, this was the one tests where perl5 was a dead duck in the water (I think they got rid of it though).
18:13 leont *for a long time
18:14 nwc10 off topic ish, but I'd love to see Will's rperl in the Debian language shootout
18:15 leont Would be interesting, even if unofficial.
18:16 nwc10 yes, I wasn't quite sure of the right terms to use.
18:16 nwc10 I'd like to see some/most/all of their benchmarks implemented in rperl
18:16 nwc10 to get a feel for what rperl's speed vs beauty trade off is
18:17 RabidGravy m: say 2**(2**32) ; # though
18:17 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«0␤»
18:17 moritz RabidGravy: our number of digits is still a 32 bit integer, I think
18:18 moritz or something like that
18:18 nwc10 more on topic ish - are their Perl 6 implementations of any or many? How do they fare on the JVM and on MoarVM? And will doubleplusbrrt's JIT work help more?
18:20 RabidGravy it thinks about 2**(2**31) for a very very long time
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18:25 moritz RabidGravy: well, it's probably 2**31 multiplications of bigints
18:26 abc-xyz joined #perl6
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18:33 abc-xyz In S05 I read phrase "Perl6 will come with at least one grammar predefined: grammar STD { ... }". But after $parsetree = STD.parse('..') I got error "Undeclared name STD".
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18:42 dalek perl6-examples: 824562a | (Shlomi Fish)++ | categories/euler/prob288-shlomif.p6:
18:42 dalek perl6-examples: Add a solution for Euler #288.
18:42 dalek perl6-examples:
18:42 dalek perl6-examples: It's very slow , but is working fine.
18:42 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/824562a7b5
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19:11 moritz m: use Perl6::Grammar :from<NQP>;
19:11 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find Perl6::Grammar in any of:␤  file#/home/camelia/.perl6/​2015.07.1-29-gf7cdcd9/lib␤  inst#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.07.1-29-gf7cdcd9␤  file#/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/share/perl6/lib␤  file#/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/sh…»
19:12 ChoHag_ How can I create a class where one attribute's value is constrained based on the contents of another?
19:13 ChoHag_ eg. Say I had a Triangle class with three attributes, $!angle1, $!angle2 and $!angle3
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19:21 pippo o/ #perl6
19:22 pippo Somebody can help me? I need to know how to write a variable value when the program bails out.
19:23 pippo Bails out due to an unhandled exception.
19:23 RabidGravy END { $foo = 1 }
19:25 pippo Does it work if the problem occurs in a loop and I would print $_?
19:25 pippo Does it work if the problem occurs in a loop and I want to print $_?
19:27 vendethiel pippo: UNDO{} ?
19:29 pippo RabidGravy: It works. But it always work even if an exception is not encountered!
19:30 moritz m: sub f ($x) { UNDO say $x; die "oh noez" if $x < 0 }; f(4); f -4;
19:30 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«4␤-4␤oh noez␤  in sub f at /tmp/OMND_HpMvd:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/OMND_HpMvd:1␤␤»
19:30 moritz m: sub f ($x) { UNDO say $x; die "oh noez" if $x < 0; True }; f(4); f -4;
19:30 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«-4␤oh noez␤  in sub f at /tmp/l45s4aPEBB:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/l45s4aPEBB:1␤␤»
19:30 RabidGravy or
19:30 moritz pippo: UNDO isn't just for exceptions, it's for unsuccessful returns too
19:30 RabidGravy m: for <1 2 3> -> $v { CATCH { say "> $v" }; die "foo" if $v == 2 }
19:30 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«> 2␤foo␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/wwbO2kXNX8:1␤␤»
19:30 moritz pippo: maybe you want a CATCH block instead?
19:31 pippo vendethiel moritz: thank you trying your suggestions…
19:33 hoelzro if I have a module Xapian::MSetIterator that is use'd by Xapian.pm, and it provides &infix<eqv>(MSetIterator, MSetIterator), what's the proper way to re-export that multi candidate from within Xapian.pm?
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19:36 dha So, given these two examples in the regexes doc, is there a reason why the "whitespace is ignored" comment is on the example that *doesn't* contain whitespace, or should these be reversed?
19:36 dha 'perl' ~~ / per . /;    # matches the whole string
19:36 dha 'perl' ~~ /per./;       # the same; whitespace is ignored
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19:40 ChoHag_ Does rakudo not (fully?) support anonymous subtypes?
19:40 pippo m: say 'per l ' ~~ /:s per . /;
19:40 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«「per l 」␤»
19:40 pippo dha ^^
19:40 moritz dha: might make more sense the other way round, yes
19:40 dha moritz - that's what I thought. I'll change.
19:40 dha thanks.
19:41 moritz dha++
19:41 pippo Ooops. Did not understand the question. Sorry.
19:41 moritz ChoHag_: such a question won't get you far, I fear
19:43 lizmat m: class A { has $.x where * > 42 }; A.new.x.WHAT.say  # looks like an anon subtype to me
19:43 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«(<anon>)␤»
19:43 RabidGravy yeah
19:43 lizmat m: my $x where * > 42; say $x.WHAT # same
19:43 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«(<anon>)␤»
19:43 ChoHag_ Ah S12 is just unclear as to where the where goes then.
19:44 dalek doc: e16ef96 | (David H. Adler)++ | lib/Language/regexes.pod:
19:44 dalek doc: Reversed the examples in the "Dot to match any character" section so
19:44 dalek doc: that the example with whitespace is the one where the comment about
19:44 dalek doc: whitespace appears.
19:44 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e16ef96f81
19:47 ChoHag_ OK so that works. Can I have two attributes whose values are dependent on each other?
19:48 lizmat you mean, as a default?
19:48 moritz ChoHag_: at initialization time? or always?
19:48 ChoHag_ Whose constraints are dependent on each other's values.
19:48 ChoHag_ Sorry it's late and I'm slightly drunk.
19:48 ChoHag_ From above: eg. Say I had a Triangle class with three attributes, $!angle1, $!angle2 and $!angle3
19:49 lizmat m: class A { has $.a = 42; has $.b where * > $!a }; say A.new( b => 1 )
19:49 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Qz_Soo3EeW:1␤␤»
19:49 ChoHag_ All three angles added together must be precisely 180 (or pi).
19:49 lizmat m: class A { has $.a = 42; has $.b where * > $.a }; say A.new( b => 1 )
19:49 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/iM9Biki2jY␤Virtual call $.a may not be used on partially constructed objects␤at /tmp/iM9Biki2jY:1␤------> 3 A { has $.a = 42; has $.b where * > $.a7⏏5 }; say A.new( b => 1 )␤    expecting any of:…»
19:50 lizmat m: class A { has $.a = 42; has $.b where * > $!a } # compile time?
19:50 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: ( no output )
19:50 lizmat hmmm...
19:50 lizmat ChoHag_: I assume at BUILD time?
19:51 ChoHag_ Being broken before or during build would be acceptable.
19:51 ChoHag_ Or the universe would implode.
19:52 ChoHag_ I'm beginning to suspect that what I want would be logically as well as practically impossible.
19:53 lizmat class A { has Int $.x; has Int $.y; has Int $.z; submethod BUILD(:$!x,:$!y,:$!z) { die if $!x + $!y + $!z != 180 } }; A.new(x=>100,y=>70,z=>10).say
19:53 lizmat m: class A { has Int $.x; has Int $.y; has Int $.z; submethod BUILD(:$!x,:$!y,:$!z) { die if $!x + $!y + $!z != 180 } }; A.new(x=>100,y=>70,z=>10).say
19:53 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«A.new(x => 100, y => 70, z => 10)␤»
19:53 ChoHag_ But perl's generally good at doing the impossible, so I'm going to have a bash before I try and find an alternative.
19:53 lizmat m: class A { has Int $.x; has Int $.y; has Int $.z; submethod BUILD(:$!x,:$!y,:$!z) { die if $!x + $!y + $!z != 180 } }; A.new(x=>100,y=>70,z=>11).say
19:53 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«Died␤  in submethod BUILD at /tmp/aVMDNNaFuo:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/aVMDNNaFuo:1␤␤»
19:53 ChoHag_ Well not a bash...
19:54 lizmat note that this version of BUILD actually sets the attributes befpre checking them
19:54 lizmat (in the signature)
19:54 lizmat ChoHag_: is that what you had in mind?
19:55 ChoHag_ That's exactly what I had in mind.
19:55 ChoHag_ Except that having a BUILD method is out because the roles trample all over each other.
19:55 lizmat there you go:  I guess you also want to check for values <0
19:55 ChoHag_ That was more or less my plan A.
19:56 ChoHag_ plan H or I or something is to use real classes rather than a pun, but I'm not that far down the alphabet yet.
19:56 lizmat Perhaps then Triangle should be a class, and you should use "handles" ?
19:56 ChoHag_ handles as in method delegation?
19:56 lizmat yes
19:57 ChoHag_ Hmm.
19:57 ChoHag_ I shall see what plan C becomes.
19:57 ChoHag_ But tomorrow. I'm being huffed at by the wife for sitting here with the light on.
19:58 lizmat m: class A { has $.x }; class B { has A $.a handles <x> }; say B.new(x => 42)
19:58 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«B.new(a => A)␤»
19:58 lizmat hmmm....
19:58 spider-mario joined #perl6
19:59 lizmat m: class A { has $.x }; class B { has A $.a handles <x> }; say B.new(a => A.new(x => 42)).x  # this works
19:59 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«42␤»
19:59 lizmat I guess one could argue that the default .new would need to know about attributes that handle methods?
20:00 lizmat is this a bug, a NYI, something not thought of yet ?
20:00 ChoHag_ It's quite reassuring (literally - I'm not being sarcastic and am too out of it to apply the standard social filters) when even the people making perl 6 make syntactical mistakes.
20:00 ChoHag_ Because sometimes this language is fucking weird.
20:01 lizmat we go for "amazing" really  :-)
20:01 ChoHag_ Amazing is just weird which glitters.
20:01 * lizmat loves glitters  :-)
20:01 pippo m: for 1..10 {say $_ / ($_ -10); CATCH {say $_}};
20:01 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«-0.111111␤-0.25␤-0.428571␤-0.6​66667␤-1␤-1.5␤-2.333333␤-4␤-9␤Attempt to divide 10 by zero using div␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/HoiMSKptHc:1␤␤Attempt to divide 10 by zero using div␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/HoiMSKptHc:1␤␤Actually…»
20:02 ChoHag_ Anyway. The morning's work is set.
20:02 pippo ^^ why $_ is not printed?
20:02 ChoHag_ Goodnight.
20:02 ChoHag_ Thank you all.
20:02 lizmat sleep wel, ChoHag_ !
20:02 RabidGravy pippo, because the CATCH sets $_ to the exception
20:03 pippo RabidGravy: how can I tell him to use the outer one?
20:04 lizmat m: for 1..10 {say $_ / ($_ -10); CATCH {say OUTER::<$_>}};   # pippo
20:04 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«-0.111111␤-0.25␤-0.428571␤-0.666​667␤-1␤-1.5␤-2.333333␤-4␤-9␤10␤Attempt to divide 10 by zero using div␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/qO0yJcVOlB:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/qO0yJcVOlB:1␤␤»
20:04 sjn Ooh! Microsoft gives us examples of error messages in Windows 10! https://twitter.com/jonathanti​mar/status/626269345908285441 :D
20:04 lizmat m: for 1..10 {$_ / ($_ -10); CATCH {say OUTER::<$_>}};   # pippo
20:04 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: ( no output )
20:04 lizmat hmmm
20:04 sjn A little less than awesome error message. :D
20:06 lizmat m: for 1..10 -> $i {say $i / ($i -10); CATCH { say "Caught $i"}}
20:06 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«-0.111111␤-0.25␤-0.428571␤-0.6​66667␤-1␤-1.5␤-2.333333␤-4␤-9␤Caught 10␤Attempt to divide 10 by zero using div␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Mua_5fvMif:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Mua_5fvMif:1␤␤»
20:06 pippo lizmat: that is cheating :))
20:06 lizmat it's a workaround  :-)
20:06 lizmat OUTER::<$_> didn't work
20:07 pippo I would have liked that to work.
20:07 pippo lizmat: thank you.
20:07 lizmat m: for 1..10 {say $_ / ($_ -10); CATCH {say "Caught " ~ OUTERS::<$_>}}
20:07 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«-0.111111␤-0.25␤-0.428571␤-0.6​66667␤-1␤-1.5␤-2.333333␤-4␤-9␤Caught 10␤Attempt to divide 10 by zero using div␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/qZbhvEcmn3:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/qZbhvEcmn3:1␤␤»
20:07 lizmat I guess the trick is OUTERS::<$_>
20:08 lizmat I guess there are some hidden levels in the CATCH processing so that OUTER:: is checking the wrong scope
20:08 pippo lizmat for president! Thank you1 :-))
20:08 pippo lizmat for president! Thank you! :-))
20:09 lizmat afaik, TimToady implemented OUTERS::  so, he would need to be president
20:09 pippo :-))
20:09 lizmat but since he is benevolent dictator already, there is not much point :-)
20:09 RabidGravy It would also be nice if the CATCH could be pointy
20:09 pippo :-))
20:09 lizmat and then keep the outers $_ ?
20:09 brrt no reason a dictatorship can't also appoint a president. i think the soviet union did that
20:10 RabidGravy yaw
20:11 lizmat m: CATCH { $^a }   # :-(
20:11 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/xSQgyytX1Q␤Placeholder variable $^a may not be used here because the surrounding block takes no signature␤at /tmp/xSQgyytX1Q:1␤------> 3CATCH { $^a }   # :-(7⏏5<EOL>␤»
20:11 RabidGravy of course catch is like a special given of sorts
20:12 lizmat feels to me it's a lambda like any other
20:12 lizmat http://brrt-to-the-future.blogspot.nl/20​15/07/tiles-and-compiler-compilers.html   # brrt++
20:13 brrt :-) i think it's currently customary to count words and estimate reading time
20:13 brrt i will not
20:13 brrt it is long
20:22 TEttinger joined #perl6
20:32 jnthn m: for 1..10 {say $_ / ($_ -10); CATCH {say OUTER::<$_>; default { }}};
20:32 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«-0.111111␤-0.25␤-0.428571␤-0.​666667␤-1␤-1.5␤-2.333333␤-4␤-9␤10␤»
20:32 jnthn Seems the OUTER:: worked fine, you just got confused 'cus you didn't handle the exception so it propagated :)
20:33 jnthn lizmat: On the proto method new things you removed, they hid (and so rule out) the default constructor inherited from Mu.
20:33 pippo jnthn: Interesting. Thank you.
20:34 lizmat jnthn: but the removal did not cause any spectest breakage
20:34 lizmat so it's an optimization ?
20:34 jnthn lizmat: Well, I suspected you've have spectested, but I was about to add that I couldn't see any cases where it'd have made a difference.
20:35 jnthn lizmat: Maybe, only thing that's bothering me is that one was in array, and I wrote that recentlyish, but I can't remember why on earth I put a proto there..
20:35 lizmat there were some cases I could not remove the proto without breaknng things
20:35 * leont seems to have a working rakudopatch to the issue he mentioned yesterday, though he's not sure his solution is the best possible
20:35 jnthn m: say array[int].new
20:35 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«␤»
20:35 jnthn m: say array[int].new(1)
20:35 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«1␤»
20:35 jnthn m: say array[int].new(1,2)
20:35 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«1 2␤»
20:35 lizmat leont: we take PRs :-)
20:35 jnthn m: say array[int].new(1,2).perl
20:35 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«array[int].new(1, 2)␤»
20:35 jnthn m: say array[int].new.perl
20:35 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«array[int].new()␤»
20:35 jnthn Hm, no damage there :)
20:35 jnthn Dunno what I was thinking.
20:35 jnthn :)
20:36 lizmat well, me neither, and if it was not because of an optimization, then we should be better now, right ?
20:36 lizmat but if you're not comfy with it, a revert is done easily :-)
20:38 jnthn lizmat: I'm not uncomfy with your patch, more curious what I was thinking. But I think I did have to insert a bunch of proto methods in array in general, and maybe it was just cargo cult :)
20:38 jnthn lizmat: I doubt I'd have done it for optimization since it's...barely one. After the first dispatch or so we'd hit the cache.
20:39 lizmat so, proto creates a local dispatcher
20:39 jnthn Right, and hides any candidates from the base classes.
20:39 * vendethiel (from user-land) only creates proto when it's not for { * }
20:39 lizmat wouldn't it be simpler to make the sig on the methods more specific ?
20:40 jnthn Well, it already *is*
20:40 jnthn For array at least.
20:40 lizmat class A { multi method new(A:) { } } ?
20:40 jnthn That's the default.
20:41 lizmat then I don't understand why yoy would want to hide candidates
20:41 jnthn So the Mu constructor is already unreachable for array.
20:41 jnthn Well, in the array case I don't
20:41 jnthn But in other cases you may
20:42 jnthn For example, if the base class had a method that took exactly two parameters, I think by arity that beats one in a subclass that takes the invocant and a slurpy
20:42 jnthn (in the array.new case, that is)
20:42 jnthn Anyway, as far as I can tell the patch is harmless.
20:42 jnthn (And so we do the same thing with less code, which is good)
20:42 lizmat .oO( mostly harmless )
20:43 lizmat well, yeah, that was the idea: less code to maintain for the same effect, is good
20:50 * lizmat hopes TimToady will chime in on Pos
20:50 lizmat m: "foo".index("f").WHAT.say
20:50 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«(Pos)␤»
20:51 leont Sent :-)
20:51 lizmat m: say Pos.^mro
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«(Pos) (Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
20:51 lizmat m: if "foo".index("f") -> $pos { say "found at $pos" }
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar f7cdcd: OUTPUT«found at 0␤»
20:52 lizmat I'll start writing tests for Pos soonish
20:54 * [Coke] reads http://brrt-to-the-future.blogspot.nl/20​15/07/tiles-and-compiler-compilers.html and wonders if result = LOCAL[8]+12 should have (const 12 int_sz) instead of (const 8 int_sz)
20:55 * TimToady thinks Pos is kind of a bad name, given that it could be taken to mean "Positive"
20:57 [Coke] "maybe we could call it StrPos" *duck*
20:57 lizmat [Coke]: it's not only for Strings
20:58 ShimmerFairy I imagine "Index" (or shorter "Idx") would be a good alternative.
20:58 [Coke] I know, just a callback.
20:58 [Coke] Tcl calls it ind... what ShimmerFairy said. And I would prefer Index, not Idx.
20:58 lizmat Index would work for me
20:58 lizmat it share In with Int
20:58 TimToady I would prefer that to Pos
20:58 jnthn I'm fine with Index
20:59 lizmat ok, then I'll make it Index and get the testing done
20:59 ShimmerFairy [Coke]: I only suggested Idx because 1) I tend to use that abbreviation, and 2) In case people liked keeping it to three letters for some reason :)
21:00 jnthn My head is somewhat sympathetic to masak++'s concerns on the Index thing, but my gut feels alright with it :)
21:00 [Coke] is any index false?
21:00 [Coke] (just an undefined one?)
21:01 lizmat undefined
21:01 lizmat and that would mean False
21:01 TimToady or arguably that's a good time to return Nil
21:01 lizmat Nil would be fine by me
21:02 dha joined #perl6
21:02 abc-xyz joined #perl6
21:02 TimToady we like to distinguish missing from uninitialized
21:03 lizmat I think the code returning Int predates the existence of Nil
21:03 lizmat running spectest with these changes now
21:04 * jnthn looks at the bunch of Perl 6 things he wants to work on and wonders where to start...
21:04 pippo good night #perl6
21:04 pippo left #perl6
21:04 jnthn At least when to start is clear (tomorrow, after a good night's sleep :))
21:04 jnthn t\01-sanity\55-use-trace.t still has a sad on Windows
21:05 lizmat gist ?
21:05 jnthn Was about to, then noticed it appears to be about line endings
21:05 lizmat ah so borked test ?
21:06 jnthn oh, no
21:06 jnthn screwed path
21:06 jnthn So I'll gist it :)
21:06 jnthn https://gist.github.com/jnthn/f8965600031fea235ba8
21:06 jnthn The first line of the got is certainly bust
21:07 lizmat i'll do some digging
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: fa71870 | (Leon Timmermans)++ | src/core/Proc (2 files):
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: Pass correct exitstatus and signal values from Proc::Async to Proc
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fa71870031
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: c27dc53 | FROGGS++ | src/core/Proc (2 files):
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #484 from Leont/exit-status
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: Pass correct exitstatus and signal values from Proc::Async to Proc
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c27dc5300b
21:08 leont \o/
21:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 98cdc1e | lizmat++ | src/core/ (3 files):
21:10 dalek rakudo/nom: s/Pos/Index/ and make (r)index return Nil on fail
21:10 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:10 dalek rakudo/nom: As discussed on http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​erl6/2015-07-29#i_10974515
21:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/98cdc1e159
21:14 virtualsue joined #perl6
21:20 lizmat leont: I just noticed you're not in CREDITS
21:20 lizmat care to do a PR for that as well ?
21:24 dolmen joined #perl6
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: 07adb0e | leont++ | CREDITS:
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Added leont to CREDITS
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/07adb0ef48
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: 6e2a7c9 | lizmat++ | CREDITS:
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #485 from Leont/exit-status
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Added leont to CREDITS
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6e2a7c91df
21:32 lizmat leont++
21:34 lizmat m: say "ƌįáčrîƫịçằḷș"
21:34 camelia rakudo-moar c27dc5: OUTPUT«ƌįáčrîƫịçằḷș␤»
21:34 lizmat hmmm...
21:34 [Coke] can someone give me random diacriticals on VARJAS ?
21:35 lizmat [Coke]: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​erl6/2015-07-29#i_10970971
21:36 [Coke] he mentions uchar but not where it is!
21:38 jnthn m: say "ƌįáčrîƫịçằḷș".chars
21:38 camelia rakudo-moar c27dc5: OUTPUT«12␤»
21:38 jnthn \o/
21:38 lizmat yeah  :-)
21:38 jnthn m: say "ƌįáčrîƫịçằḷș".codes
21:38 camelia rakudo-moar c27dc5: OUTPUT«12␤»
21:38 jnthn ...really?
21:38 jnthn m: say "ƌįáčrîƫịçằḷș".NFC.codes
21:38 camelia rakudo-moar c27dc5: OUTPUT«12␤»
21:38 jnthn hmmm
21:38 lizmat maybe their all valid NFC
21:38 lizmat couild be
21:38 jnthn m: say "ƌįáčrîƫịçằḷș".NFC.list.map(&uniname)
21:38 camelia rakudo-moar c27dc5: OUTPUT«LATIN SMALL LETTER D WITH TOPBAR LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH OGONEK LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH ACUTE LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CARON LATIN SMALL LETTER R LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH CIRCUMFLEX LATIN SMALL LETTER T WITH PALATAL HOOK LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH DOT…»
21:39 jnthn They are as well :P
21:39 jnthn How...boring :)
21:39 lizmat hehe
21:39 TimToady darn it, those Unifolks did their work too good
21:39 lizmat he also has a script in which you can print text upside down
21:41 yqt joined #perl6
21:41 jnthn :)
21:43 lizmat I think he's gone to bed already... he'll probably react here tomorrow
21:43 jnthn What a sensible thing to have done... :)
21:43 * jnthn nearly went to space today, so should probably rest soon too..
21:44 leont jnthn: Can I realistically do anything about that proc-async IO termination issue?
21:44 jnthn leont: Not sure what issue you mean...link?
21:45 jnthn (provided it's RT'd...)
21:45 leont We discussed it some time ago, no idea if it has an RT. In a tap on a stream from PA, the done handler can be called before all the IO has been handled.
21:46 jnthn ah
21:46 jnthn Yeah, that's probably part of the "serial supply" stuff I talked about in my recent stuff to fix/improve gist
21:47 jnthn So will get fixed as part of that
21:47 leont Awesome!
21:52 lizmat hmmm...
21:52 lizmat TimToady asked for Nil to be returned by index()
21:52 lizmat but that means we have a variable return signature
21:52 timo joined #perl6
21:52 lizmat jnthn: isn't that a bad thing optimization wise ?
21:53 lizmat wouldn't it be better to always return Index, either defined or undefined ?
21:54 jnthn lizmat: spesh treats the type object and instances of it as different things in a lot of places, so it's not automatically bad
21:55 lizmat m: sub a(--> Index) { Nil }; my Index $a = a
21:55 camelia rakudo-moar 6e2a7c: OUTPUT«Type check failed for return value; expected 'Index' but got 'Any'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/YSK8CBx3xq:1␤␤»
21:55 jnthn uh, or automatically worse
21:55 lizmat m: sub a(--> Index) { Nil }; a  # shorter
21:55 camelia rakudo-moar 6e2a7c: OUTPUT«Type check failed for return value; expected 'Index' but got 'Any'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/WLOW8F_fRg:1␤␤»
21:55 jnthn Though in reality dynamic opt's success is more about predictability than anything
21:57 Guest45814 o/
21:57 lizmat timotimo o/
21:57 dalek specs: ff70871 | lizmat++ | S32-setting-library/Str.pod:
21:57 dalek specs: Spec index/rindex changes wrt to Index
21:57 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/ff70871e45
21:59 dalek roast: ae65a02 | lizmat++ | S32-str/index.t:
21:59 dalek roast: Minimal test changes for index(--> Index)
21:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ae65a023b6
22:02 rurban joined #perl6
22:05 dalek roast: ea00fa0 | lizmat++ | S32-str/index.t:
22:05 dalek roast: Remove bogus test
22:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ea00fa0019
22:05 dalek roast: d2e3055 | lizmat++ | S32-str/rindex.t:
22:05 dalek roast: Minimal test changes for rindex(--> Index)
22:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d2e3055614
22:05 timotimo i missed a lot while my irc client was down
22:06 dalek roast: f631546 | lizmat++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
22:06 dalek roast: Add Index as a valid type
22:06 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f631546b9d
22:06 lizmat timotimo: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today   :-)
22:06 timotimo yup
22:06 timotimo already there :)
22:06 timotimo moritz++ # irc log infrastructure
22:17 jnthn Time for some rest...'night o/
22:17 lizmat good night, jnthn
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22:44 dalek rakudo/nom: debcfcb | lizmat++ | src/core/Cool.pm:
22:44 dalek rakudo/nom: Streamline (r)index some more
22:44 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:44 dalek rakudo/nom: - separate candidates with/without pos
22:44 dalek rakudo/nom: - in signature coercion to Str/Int
22:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/debcfcbbed
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22:46 lizmat and on that note, I wish #perl6 a good night
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22:49 abc-xyz In S05 I see phrase: <Perl 6 will come with at least one grammar predefined: STD> . But after {  $tree = STD.parse('...')   }  I see error 'Undeclared name:  STD'
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23:27 timotimo those streamlinings look good
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23:59 ugexe hooks/ implementation works. just need to mangle existing Build.pm files to work without dependencies now

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