Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-09-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 ShimmerFairy anyone else getting "Default constructor for 'Panda::Ecosystem' only takes named arguments" for latest panda (and latest rakudo) now, doing ./bootstrap.pl ?
00:08 tadzik yeah, jit bug
00:08 ShimmerFairy Can I do something about it, or am I stuck without panda for however long? :(
00:10 ShimmerFairy (also, a link to the specifics of the bug?)
00:28 ShimmerFairy tadzik: ?
00:37 raiph ShimmerFairy: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​erl6/2015-09-20#i_11248456 and below
00:38 ShimmerFairy thanks :)
00:40 ShimmerFairy raiph: and that 'my $ = ' workaround mentioned seems to be a usable workaround \o/
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06:48 moritz ShimmerFairy: MVM_JIT_DISABLE=1 is also a useful workaround
06:48 ShimmerFairy ah, thanks
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10:47 * lizmat drops a pin
10:49 nine sssht!
10:53 * masak combs the sound waves back to placidity
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11:02 * DrForr drops a pin 180 degrees out of phase.
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11:03 masak I hear you can drop pins to approximate the value of pi
11:03 masak basically a simple Monte Carlo simulation
11:05 DrForr Yep, a wood strip floor and pins exactly as wide as the strip, I think 4/\pi pins will cross the boundary on average. French mathematician, I think.
11:06 masak I approve of anyone who assumes LaTeX notation for explaining things
11:06 moritz or simply draw a quarter circle, and drop grain or something
11:06 moritz masak: did you mean \LaTeX notation? :-)
11:06 moritz or was that \latex (to produce the logo)?
11:06 * moritz is rusty
11:07 * DrForr looks around for a bell, eventually we'll need it ;)
11:07 moritz DrForr: you mean for ee'Tex (ding) ?
11:07 DrForr Got it in one. Biobreak, back in a while.
11:07 * masak .oO( ìTex )
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11:24 * DrForr waves at woolfy
11:25 * woolfy waves back to DrForr (continent-wide wave)
11:25 woolfy Ehm...
11:25 woolfy German Perl Workshop will be on 9-12 March 2012: http://act.yapc.eu/gpw2016/
11:25 woolfy german Perl Workshop would like to have a lot of Perl 6 talks, since it will be shortly after the launch of Perl 6.0.0.
11:25 DrForr Well, I should be strong enough to make it by then... :)
11:26 pink_mist 2012? 0_o
11:26 moritz 2016 :-)
11:27 pink_mist that makes more sense :P
11:27 moritz woolfy: also, I'll be one of the folks deciding which talks will be accepted :-)
11:27 DrForr o/' Goin' back in time... o/'
11:27 woolfy So if you live in the neighbourhood (Germany, Czech republic, Poland, Sweden, Netherlands, France) and you are a bit or more involved in Perl 6, register, and submit a proposal to talk: http://act.yapc.eu/gpw2016/newtalk
11:27 woolfy 2016.  2016. 2016.  Raah...
11:28 woolfy moritz: it was Steffen Winkler who asked on the Perl 6 page on Facebook ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/1595443877388632/ )
11:28 DrForr Have they decided on a location in Germany?
11:28 woolfy Nuremberg
11:28 woolfy Lovely city.
11:29 moritz woolfy: ah yes, one of the more active organizers
11:29 * moritz guesses he should get his stuff together and become more active himself
11:30 woolfy moritz: I assume blindly that you will be impartial and make a rightful selection of Perl 5 and Perl 6 and other (maybe not-Perl-related) talks.  No favoritism for Perl 6.  :-)
11:30 CQ maybe a 6:5 ratio of the talks? ; )
11:30 woolfy :-)
11:31 moritz woolfy: assumptions are dangerous... :-)
11:31 woolfy certainly when made blindly...
11:32 woolfy And bny the way, the Perl 6 page on Facebook is starting to be interesting.  Emil Elshishini, for example, asked a question on installing Perl 6 Rakudo via rakudobrew and had some problems, and DrForr reacted by pointing him here.
11:33 woolfy And itz reacted substantively.
11:34 moritz makes me almost sorry that I'm not active on Facebook
11:34 DrForr I'm still somewhat in pain and couldn't quite follow what he was asking. And I thought that more traffic here was a good thing.
11:36 timotimo i'd appreciate it if you could follow the messages on that facebook group without being logged in >_>
11:38 _itz timotimo: I think you can.  I turned off various things on FB (inc. messenger) and get email alerts
11:38 DrForr moritz: It shouldn't. The other perl groups are a cesspool, basically Indian offshored workers either trying to get interview questions asked or asking for people to write their code for them.
11:38 _itz I'm not 100% convinced its actually worth it anyway :)
11:38 timotimo _itz: i don't have a facebook account at all
11:39 _itz timotimo: you aren't missing much
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11:40 timotimo oh, actually, "i don't have a facebook account" is most probably wrong
11:40 timotimo "i didn't apply for one" is more accurate
11:41 DrForr I didn't either, I just got one one day. Under my real name :(
11:41 timotimo i don't think it makes a difference if you use your real name or not; facebook has such a massive collection of data that the graph just gives it away anyway
11:42 DrForr Oh, definitely.
11:42 kolikov m: sub f( Array :@x ) { }; f( x => [] );
11:42 camelia rakudo-moar c189c7: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding @x; expected 'Positional[Array]' but got 'Array'␤  in sub f at /tmp/YKqfNG4_W7:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/YKqfNG4_W7:1␤␤»
11:42 kolikov m: sub f( Array :$x ) { }; f( x => [] );
11:42 camelia rakudo-moar c189c7: ( no output )
11:43 moritz m: sub f(:@x) { }; f x => [];
11:43 camelia rakudo-moar c189c7: ( no output )
11:43 timotimo kolikov: the @ sigil already declares "you want a listy thing", that's why it says "Positional"
11:43 timotimo so writing "Array @foo" is actually like "an array of arrays"
11:43 timotimo just like "Int @foo" is "an array declared to hold Int objects"
11:44 kolikov Ha ... I see thanks :)
11:45 cognominal I don't have a FB account because I thought they were pure evil;  but they gave us react, so they are only mostly evil. Probably pure evil does not exist, we just want to.
11:45 Ven ohai, #perl6!
11:45 * Ven hugs woolfy++
11:45 timotimo one common pitfall is that if you declare in your signature "Int @foo", you'll have to actually pass an array *declared* to hold Int objects; just putting in an array that has only Int in them is not enough
11:45 Zefram_Fysh oh, that reminds me: S02 shows things like "my Array of Int @a" to get an array of integers, whereas in Rakudo the "Array of" is implicit.  S02 should be changed to match Rakudo
11:47 kolikov @ timotimo so  ... sub f( Int :@x ) { }; f( x => [1] ); would throw an error ...
11:47 kolikov sub f( Int :@x ) { }; f( x => [1] );
11:47 kolikov m: sub f( Int :@x ) { }; f( x => [1] );
11:47 camelia rakudo-moar c189c7: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding @x; expected 'Positional[Int]' but got 'Array'␤  in sub f at /tmp/vLWa1wkt__:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/vLWa1wkt__:1␤␤»
11:47 timotimo yeah
11:47 moritz kolikov: correct
11:47 timotimo m: sub f( Int :@x ) { }; f( x => Array[Int].new(1) );
11:47 camelia rakudo-moar c189c7: ( no output )
11:47 timotimo m: sub f( Int :@x ) { }; my Int @thingie = 1, 2, 3; f( x => @thingie );
11:47 camelia rakudo-moar c189c7: ( no output )
11:47 DrForr woolfy: Do you think pointing people to #perl6 is the right thing to do?
11:48 pink_mist can you make the Int :@x coersive?
11:48 timotimo pink_mist: we don't have a solution for that yet
11:48 pink_mist ah, darn
11:48 * woolfy hugz Ven
11:49 woolfy DrForr: don't know yet.  I can just hope that some people come here and do good things.
11:49 Zefram_Fysh you can't coerce because the array is writable
11:49 timotimo aye, and the coerced array would just be a copy
11:50 Zefram_Fysh interesting variant here:
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11:50 Zefram_Fysh m: sub f(Numeric @x) { @x[0] = 1/3; }; my Int @a; f(@a); say @a[0]
11:50 camelia rakudo-moar c189c7: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '@a'; expected 'Int' but got 'Rat'␤  in sub f at /tmp/O4Of0KFWGT:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/O4Of0KFWGT:1␤␤»
11:50 timotimo or you'd replace the thing passed-in, which only works if it's not literal (and it'll confuse the F out of people)
11:50 DrForr Well, as we get closer to release more people will come in, may as well start boiling the proverbial frog :)
11:50 Zefram_Fysh Array[Int] satisfies the Positional[Numeric] constraint, but the Int constraint is enforced on write
11:51 kolikov timotimo : I'll take   Array[].new() then ... Thanks !
11:51 moritz Zefram_Fysh: we'd need covariant and contravariant typing to avoid that
11:51 Zefram_Fysh yes
11:52 moritz and I don't think anybody wants that :-)
11:53 Zefram_Fysh it is somewhat strange that after the (Numeric @x) declaration you can't write an arbitrary Numeric into the array.  I think I'd sometimes want to get that sort of guarantee
11:54 moritz the Perl 6 type system isn't strong enough to give that guarantuee, ever
11:54 moritz and I don't think it can be made that way, while still staying naturally usable in a dynamic language
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11:56 dalek rakudo/nom: c26954b | lizmat++ | src/core/Str.pm:
11:56 dalek rakudo/nom: GLRify Str.lines properly
11:56 dalek rakudo/nom:
11:56 dalek rakudo/nom: for $str.lines now 40% faster, and $str.lines.elems 14x as fast.
11:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c26954b66d
11:56 Zefram_Fysh the Positional[Numeric] parameter type could be taken to require an exact match on Numeric for writable Positional types, and that would be useful
11:57 moritz no
11:57 Zefram_Fysh no?
11:57 moritz in your exmaple, Positional[Any] would also allow the write
11:57 moritz so it'd be too strict
11:57 Zefram_Fysh but Positional[Any] would lack the read guarantee
11:57 Zefram_Fysh for read/write types, you need an exact match on the element type
11:57 moritz but the rabbit hole goes much deeper
11:58 moritz you can't require an exact match for Positional[Numeric]; Array[Numeric] isn't an exact match
11:58 moritz so you have to special-case the first part of the type check
11:58 Zefram_Fysh I only said you'd need an exact match on the element type
11:58 Zefram_Fysh and only for read/write Positional classes, such as Array
11:59 Zefram_Fysh for read-only container classes, a covariant match of element type is appropriate
11:59 moritz but that gives trouble for nesting
11:59 Zefram_Fysh and in theory, a write-only container class would want a contravariant match of element type
12:00 moritz sub f(Positional[Numeric] @x) { g(@x[0]) }; sub g (Numeric @x) { g[0] = 1/3 }
12:00 Zefram_Fysh the nesting works just fine.  same rules apply at each level, based on the kind of match required by the level above
12:00 moritz so you don't want to special-case based on nesting, but on whether it's a container vs. element type?
12:00 Zefram_Fysh huh?
12:01 Zefram_Fysh container vs element type is not an inherent feature of the classes, it's about the relationship between them
12:01 moritz in sub f(Positional[Numeric] @x)
12:01 moritz the expected type is Positional[Positional[Numeric]]
12:01 Zefram_Fysh yes
12:02 moritz would you allow passing an Array[Array[Numeric]] to it?
12:02 Zefram_Fysh no
12:02 moritz then it's pretty useless
12:02 moritz because you can't instantiate Positional
12:02 Zefram_Fysh an Array[] argument would require exact match of the element type, and Array[Numeric] isn't the same as Positional[Numeric]
12:03 Zefram_Fysh Positional[Positional[Numeric]] would accept a read-only container at top level with Array[Numeric] elements
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12:03 SteffenW http://act.yapc.eu/gpw2016/ German Perl Workshop, Wed 2016-03-09, registration is open, think about your talks, 3 conference days + 1 hackathron day + partnerprogramm
12:04 Zefram_Fysh does List work as a read-only Positional?
12:04 moritz SteffenW: woolfy already came in here :-)
12:04 moritz m: say List ~~ Positional
12:04 camelia rakudo-moar c189c7: OUTPUT«True␤»
12:05 Zefram_Fysh m: say List[Int].new(1,2)
12:05 camelia rakudo-moar c189c7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/dWY0zqIU1l␤List cannot be parameterized␤at /tmp/dWY0zqIU1l:1␤------> 3say List[Int]7⏏5.new(1,2)␤»
12:07 Zefram_Fysh I think you'd want a List that actually contains only T values to count as a Positional[T], despite the lack of explicit parameterisation of List for construction
12:08 moritz Zefram_Fysh: that would be nice, but also confusing, because Lists are lazy
12:08 Zefram_Fysh oh, right
12:09 Zefram_Fysh is there an eager equivalent?
12:09 moritz no
12:09 Zefram_Fysh that's troublesome, then
12:09 moritz well, there's array (with lower case), but that's already natively typed
12:10 Zefram_Fysh a lack of immutable structured types would certainly impact the practicality of the theoretically-correct type system
12:13 moritz any theoretician will facepalm when confronted with Perl 6's type system
12:13 timotimo aye, sadly it's no good for those kinds of people
12:13 timotimo it's still loads better than what perl5 offers, mind you :P
12:15 Zefram_Fysh with List being lazy, maybe it *should* be explicitly parameterisable
12:15 [TuxCM] when will panda be fixed?
12:19 moritz when will MoarVM be fixed?
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12:21 pink_mist . o O ( panda fixed? a neutered panda? )
12:21 timotimo was there ever a change to moarvm to make the "return with nameds" thing work?
12:22 moritz timotimo: seems not; which is why panda is still broken
12:22 timotimo but then why does disabling the jit fix the problem?
12:23 timotimo i haven't looked at gen'd code yet, but the jit isn't really treating return ops differently from the interpreter
12:23 jnthn afternoon, #perl6
12:23 timotimo the only thing that'd make sense to me would be that the spesh'd versions of the return ops don't work perfectly, but return ops don't actually get spesh'd *and* then keeping spesh on should also show the problem
12:23 moritz timotimo: I have no idea
12:24 DrForr Afternoon.
12:29 timotimo me neither :|
12:29 timotimo i should look at the generated code to figure out what's wrong
12:32 dalek rakudo-star-daily: e1b343f | coke++ | log/ (8 files):
12:32 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
12:32 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/e1b343fbee
12:32 dalek perl6-roast-data: 15e0990 | coke++ | / (9 files):
12:32 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
12:32 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/15e09908ca
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12:35 nine woolfy: are there still talk slots available for FOSDEM?
12:36 timotimo wait ...
12:36 timotimo the problem arises from having "return Foo::Bar.new(named parameters here)" vs "Foo::Bar.new(named parameters here)" ?!?
12:37 jnthn timotimo: Did you manage to recreate it?
12:38 timotimo no, just digging through the irclog so far
12:38 jnthn ah
12:38 [Coke] mst: Pretty sure I have a tcl grammar lying about somewhere.
12:38 timotimo http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​erl6/2015-09-19#i_11245158 - this is a relevant section
12:41 DrForr There's a TCL ANTLR grammar, maybe use my converter?
12:47 lizmat nine: could it be that Inline::Perl5 has not be de-EnumMapped ?
12:48 nine lizmat: oh indeed!
12:50 dalek Inline-Perl5: fd6413e | (Stefan Seifert)++ | lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6:
12:50 dalek Inline-Perl5: EnumMap is now Map
12:50 dalek Inline-Perl5:
12:50 dalek Inline-Perl5: Thanks to lizmat++ for the reminder!
12:50 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inl​ine-Perl5/commit/fd6413ec7a
12:50 lizmat nine: Can't locate Sub/Name.pm in @INC   # didn't know Sub::Name is now a requirement ?
12:51 lizmat [TuxCM]: export MVM_JIT_DISABLE=1   will for now allow you to build panda
12:52 Ulti nine if I wanted to fix my code ahead of lots of hash/map changes should I work against your GMR branch? or is that more speculative than spec at the moment?
12:52 nine timotimo: maybe https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0d40e0080 gives a hint what could go wrong?
12:52 nine Ulti: it's already merged
12:52 Ulti nine ahh ok cool
12:52 Ulti I will start fixing my BioInfo package then
12:53 Ulti its a lot more dead than I had hoped for ;___;
12:53 nine lizmat: yes Sub::Name is a requirement now. I seem to have thought that it's in CORE. May degrade it to a runtime requirement, since it's only required if you use v6::inline;
12:53 timotimo nine: are we sure that the $*IN_RETURN gets cleared properly for things?
12:53 Ulti I suspect mostly a generous sprinkle of .flat or .list will bring it back to life
12:54 nine timotimo: do not assume that. If anything I cargo culted and no one has cought me yet.
12:54 brrt joined #perl6
12:54 timotimo hah
12:54 lizmat nine: This is perl 5, version 20, subversion 0 (v5.20.0) built for darwin-2level is on OS X 10.10.5 and does not have Sub::Name
12:55 woolfy nine: there's no official call for proposals for FOSDEM yet.  But...
12:55 * lizmat checks for updates
12:55 * timotimo AFK for a bit
12:55 ilmari nine: Sub::Name is not in core. Sub::Util is as of 5.22
12:55 ilmari Sub::Util includes the functionality from both Sub::Name and Sub::Identify
12:55 woolfy nine: FOSDEM no news yet: https://fosdem.org/2016/news/
12:56 * [Coke] sees that PerlJam closed a ticket assigned to Coke without checking with coke, and coke didn't get an email.
12:56 nine woolfy: with so much time still available, I'm not sure what exactly I'm gonna be able to talk about. However I do know that I would want to give a talk again :)
12:57 nine ilmari: oh, nice. So replacing Sub::Name::subname by Sub::Util::set_subname would already help many people.
12:57 [Coke] woolfy: there's a perl 6 page on facebook?
12:58 Ulti there's also a Perl 6 sub reddit that no one goes to :S
12:58 Ulti or at least no one comments on
12:58 DrForr Courtesy yours truly. There wasn't much p6 traffic, I thought it was because everyone was fixated on p5.
12:59 [Coke] Ulti: if I reddited, I'd use it. :)
12:59 brrt timotimo: broken stuff?
13:00 DrForr Lots of modules in the ecosystem, but very few people talking about them.
13:00 brrt aye, but jit bug?
13:01 nine lizmat: demoting to a runtime dependency won't help much if the tests still fail....hmm...
13:02 Ulti [Coke] I just use it for Perl news, other than twitter its about the only place with up to date info
13:02 lizmat if I recall correctly, Sub::Name is a minimal amount of XS
13:02 lizmat nine: maybe it would be handier to just put the XS into the Inline::Perl5 logic ?
13:02 woolfy Slides of Perl 6 talk by garu during YAPC::Brasil.  In Portuguese.  http://www.slideshare.net/garux/introduo-ao-perl-6
13:03 brrt .ask timotimo is this a new jit bug or the old one?
13:03 yoleaux brrt: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
13:03 nine lizmat: that's my current line of thinking. It's not that much code.
13:04 woolfy nine: you are welcome to send a talk proposal to me.  Or just tell me you want to talk in the Perl-devroom, and I will put you on the list to contact next month, to ask you for a title, summary, and your "bio".
13:05 woolfy [Coke]: Perl 6 page on Facebook: indeed. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1595443877388632/
13:05 DrForr He's already signed up :)
13:05 nine woolfy: yes I do want to talk in the Perl-devroom and please put me on the list :) I will probably talk about some Perl 5 <-> Perl 6 stuff :)
13:06 DrForr Sigh. Throw my name on there as well, I'll try a different approach :)
13:06 woolfy nine: will do.  by the way, I am utterly surprised that you want to talk about Perl 5 <-> Perl 6 stuff.  ;-)
13:07 nine brrt: the bug faced with merging the gmr branch which adds a Pair.new($key, $value) candidate. So far I've failed to reproduce it outside of panda.
13:07 brrt gmr branch?
13:07 woolfy DrForr: throw your name on the list of speakers for Perl-devroom at FOSDEM?  Or were you not talking to me?
13:07 DrForr Yes, that.
13:07 nine woolfy: yeah, who'd have thought? ;)
13:08 woolfy DrForr: done
13:09 woolfy nine: me me me me me!
13:09 DrForr I missed a chance to promote ::ToPerl6 at YAPC, FOSDEM will have to do :)
13:10 woolfy DrForr: I can't guarantee we will get a devroom. I can't even apply for one yet, since they did not start the process yet.
13:10 DrForr 'sokay, I can see the writing on the wall.
13:10 nine brrt: basically http://postcircumfix.com/2015-08-29-untan​gling-the-perl-6-hashpair-type-hierarchy
13:10 brrt oh, yes
13:11 brrt i read that, looked good
13:11 brrt hmmm
13:11 nine brrt: thought so, too, so I implemented it :)
13:11 brrt ok, so with that, we have a bug in panda
13:11 brrt somehwere
13:12 * brrt realizes he's some weeks behind his rakudo
13:13 Ven joined #perl6
13:13 nine brrt: return 1, :foo(2); needed fixing because foo got promoted to a named argument, despite being just a Pair constructor. My first attempt caused foo in return Foo.new(:foo(1)) to no longer be a named argument, but I fixed that. It seems like the JIT needs some fix for that as well.
13:14 [TuxCM] OH WOW
13:14 [TuxCM] test             50000    34.591    34.512
13:14 [TuxCM] test-t           50000    35.531    35.451
13:14 brrt so, return 1, :foo(2) breaks evilly in the JIT?
13:15 moritz nine: there's nothing wrong with  return 1, :foo(2) having :foo as a named argument, as long as &return doesn't discard named params
13:16 nine moritz: but &return does
13:16 moritz nine: then &return needs fixing, not the grammar or actions
13:17 andreoss joined #perl6
13:17 nine moritz: is return a function or is it just implemented as one?
13:18 moritz src/core/control.pm:my &return := -> | {
13:18 moritz nine: it's a block, actually
13:18 moritz not a function
13:19 aborazmeh joined #perl6
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13:20 nine That's how it's implemented. I'm wondering about the design.
13:22 lizmat [TuxCM]: better ?
13:22 lizmat fwiw, I think it should be a sub  :-)
13:23 lizmat but I seem to recall, that breaks things at least on the JVM
13:23 nine brrt: no, this: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/​blob/master/lib/Panda/App.pm#L39
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13:24 brrt hmm, ok
13:24 brrt oh, i have a hypothesis
13:24 nine brrt: the error message indicates, that those arguments to the constructor are no longer promoted to named ones.
13:24 brrt oh, i no longer have a hypothesis
13:24 nine :(
13:25 nine brrt: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0d40e0080 was my fix for return 1, :a(2);
13:25 timotimo brrt: it actually seems like a function that takes named arguments breaks when a "return" is put in front of it
13:25 yoleaux 13:03Z <brrt> timotimo: is this a new jit bug or the old one?
13:25 timotimo but only if the jit is turned on
13:25 timotimo which ... wtf?
13:26 brrt ok, let's try that out
13:26 brrt this in all rakudo's or just the gmr rakudo
13:26 timotimo there's no "gmr rakudo"
13:26 timotimo gmr has been merged into nom already
13:26 brrt oh
13:27 brrt ok :-)
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13:36 [TuxCM] lizmat, yes
13:37 [TuxCM] first time ever under 36
13:37 lizmat I guess it's my .lines changes...
13:37 AlexDani` joined #perl6
13:37 lizmat hmmm... can't be
13:38 lizmat [TuxCM]: no idea what caused that improvement
13:38 [TuxCM] and my stuff has no .lines calls anywhere :)
13:38 lizmat yeah  :-)
13:38 jnthn I thought the outer loop of test-t uses lines() ?
13:39 lizmat ah, could be  :-)
13:40 larion joined #perl6
13:40 nine Yes, it does.
13:42 Ven joined #perl6
13:43 mullagainn joined #perl6
13:48 [Coke] RT: 1,025 ; GLR - 3; testneeded - 9; Christmas - 108
13:49 [TuxCM] else {              # fastest, but unsafe
13:49 [TuxCM] for lines () :eager {
13:49 jnthn [Coke]: How'd you get the 108? :)
13:49 [TuxCM] that one?
13:49 timotimo you can kick out the :eager fwiw
13:49 jnthn [Coke]: I'm guessing you counted dependencies of RT #123766?
13:49 [Coke] jnthn: the hard way.
13:50 jnthn Damn, I thought you had a clever way. But when I counted yesterday I got 118...hmm :)
13:50 [Coke] right, looked at linked tickets,copied them into vi, checked the #lines.
13:50 jnthn Hm
13:50 jnthn OK :)
13:50 * [Coke] double checks..
13:50 [Coke] same.
13:51 * [Coke] chuckles at https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/​Graphs/index.html?id=123766
13:52 timotimo blergh %)
13:53 brrt oh, lord, that is indeed difficult to reproduce
13:54 nine [Coke]: I cannot look at that graph. Neither with the anonymous user, nor with my own.
13:54 laouji joined #perl6
13:54 lizmat [TuxCM]: forget about :eager, just use .lines: it's safe now
13:55 nine and fast :)
13:55 [TuxCM] test             50000    34.742    34.663
13:55 [TuxCM] test-t           50000    35.831    35.752
13:55 [TuxCM] without :eager
13:56 * [Coke] sees a ticket mail, ponders replying to it as a DIHWIDT, and sees that jnthn++ has already fixed it, added tests, and closed it.
14:02 hernanGOA joined #perl6
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14:04 andreoss could list comprehension be lazy?
14:05 andreoss m: my @f = ($_ if $_ %% 2 for 1..*); say @f[^10];
14:05 camelia rakudo-moar c26954: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
14:06 timotimo hmm
14:06 timotimo i was hoping i could get the extra node info from SpecialArg as well as Op by using "~ callsame", but no joy :(
14:06 skids Array assignment is eager, no?
14:06 leont But binding isn't
14:07 andreoss m: my @f = 1..*; say @f[^10]
14:07 camelia rakudo-moar c26954: OUTPUT«(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10)␤»
14:07 leont my @f := (1..*).grep(* %% 2).list; say @f[^10];
14:08 andreoss m: my @f = (1..*).grep(* %% 3); say @f[^10];
14:08 camelia rakudo-moar c26954: OUTPUT«(3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30)␤»
14:10 andreoss it should detect infinite structures and make array lazy explicitly
14:11 andreoss but should it work with python-styled list comprehension?
14:11 colomon panda’s broken for nom?
14:11 timotimo there's a simple fix available, IIUC
14:12 timotimo we could "just" turn the offending line into two lines
14:16 Ven joined #perl6
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14:20 skids Ah, It's for.  IIRC for was to stay eager at one point due to usual expectations from procedural languages.
14:23 aiacob joined #perl6
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14:33 Loren joined #perl6
14:33 Loren evening #perl6 .
14:33 hoelzro o/ #perl6
14:36 [Coke] hoelzro, Loren: ohai.
14:36 hoelzro o/ [Coke]
14:37 Loren (Coke, hoelzro).map(&sayhi)
14:38 Loren Is it right?
14:38 hoelzro looks good to me =)
14:39 hernanGOA joined #perl6
14:41 Loren haha.
14:45 dalek rakudo/nom: b578b41 | lizmat++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
14:45 dalek rakudo/nom: Only one consumer, we don't need a role
14:45 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:45 dalek rakudo/nom: This makes IO.words again 20-30% faster, as we're no longer bothered by
14:45 dalek rakudo/nom: RT #126120, so we can use a native int for the position.
14:45 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b578b4164f
14:46 synbot6 joined #perl6
14:46 kivutar joined #perl6
14:49 andreoss m: sub say-hi { "hi, $^x!" }; qw/coke hoelzro/».&say-hi
14:49 camelia rakudo-moar c26954: ( no output )
14:49 Sqirrel joined #perl6
14:49 andreoss m: sub say-hi { "hi, $^x!".say }; qw/coke hoelzro/».&say-hi
14:49 camelia rakudo-moar c26954: OUTPUT«hi, coke!␤hi, hoelzro!␤»
14:50 brrt joined #perl6
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14:58 brrt you know what i find confusing? i wouldn't expect make-default-ecosystem to run often at all
14:59 nine I also have not been able to reproduce by doing something like sub foo() { return Foo.new(:bar(1)) }; foo() for 1 .. 10000;
15:00 brrt that is almost, to the letter, my exact test :-)
15:01 nine woah :)
15:03 timotimo brrt: you are right, that confused me quite a bit, too
15:03 nine Are we sure the JIT is at fault here?
15:04 oZ_ joined #perl6
15:04 timotimo well, turning the jit off is the one thing that fixes it ... for no good reason at all IMO
15:05 nine That's the only (albeit strong) indicator pointing in the JIT's direction. OTOH I'd assume that the JIT is far too low level for a bug like this. Am I wrong?
15:05 timotimo don't think you're wrong
15:05 timotimo but what do i know
15:06 domidumont joined #perl6
15:06 brrt hmmm
15:06 brrt i could imagine a bug in handling named arguments, but i'm not seeing good evidence of it
15:08 timotimo did we already check reverting just the "return 1, :a(1)" commit fixes this
15:17 moritz timotimo: not that I'm aware of
15:18 timotimo i shall have a go
15:18 brrt interesting
15:19 DrForr joined #perl6
15:20 timotimo yeah, that fixes it
15:20 timotimo i was assuming for a little bit that the constructor to ecosystem is being called with the named parameters as Pair objects instead
15:20 timotimo but the QAST doesn't look like that
15:21 timotimo oh, look at that
15:21 timotimo er, no, the bug isn't going to suddenly show itself again unless i undo the revert %)
15:25 Zefram_Fysh m: sub aa (Hash[Any] @a) { }; my @a of Hash[Any]; aa(@a)
15:25 camelia rakudo-moar b578b4: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding @a; expected 'Positional[Hash[Any]]' but got 'Array[Hash[Any]]'␤  in sub aa at /tmp/K0isqvhFkg:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/K0isqvhFkg:1␤␤»
15:26 Zefram_Fysh that type mismatch looks nonsensical
15:26 timotimo m: say Array[Hash[Any]] ~~ Positional[Hash[Any]]
15:26 camelia rakudo-moar b578b4: OUTPUT«True␤»
15:26 timotimo yeah
15:27 Zefram_Fysh should I RT it?
15:27 timotimo m: sub aa (Hash[Any] @a) { }; my Hash[Any] @a; aa(@a)
15:27 camelia rakudo-moar b578b4: ( no output )
15:27 timotimo huh, interesting
15:27 timotimo so just "of" being wrong?
15:27 Zefram_Fysh er, not sure
15:28 Zefram_Fysh the prefix is certainly behaving differently from the "of"
15:28 timotimo well, without using "of" it seems to work
15:28 timotimo right
15:28 Zefram_Fysh m: sub aa(Int @a) { }; my Hash[Any] @a; aa(@a)
15:28 camelia rakudo-moar b578b4: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/dI0qCfs3Ju␤Calling aa(Positional[Hash[Any]]) will never work with declared signature (Int @a)␤at /tmp/dI0qCfs3Ju:1␤------> 3sub aa(Int @a) { }; my Hash[Any] @a; 7⏏5aa(@a)␤»
15:29 Zefram_Fysh m: sub aa(Int @a) { }; my @a of Hash[Any]; aa(@a)
15:29 camelia rakudo-moar b578b4: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding @a; expected 'Positional[Int]' but got 'Array[Hash[Any]]'␤  in sub aa at /tmp/Rr20o0AT5e:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Rr20o0AT5e:1␤␤»
15:29 Zefram_Fysh why are those so different?
15:30 FROGGS joined #perl6
15:31 Zefram_Fysh m: sub aa (Hash[Any] @a) { }; my Hash[Any] @a; aa(@a)
15:31 camelia rakudo-moar b578b4: ( no output )
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15:39 timotimo i may have done the check wrong after reverting
15:39 * timotimo re-checks
15:41 brrt dinner &
15:42 timotimo no, reverting that commit in question fixes things
15:42 brrt timotimo++ for bughunting :-)
15:42 timotimo and --optimize=off (as i thought may change things) doesn't do anything
15:43 timotimo i may be hunting, but ... not really progressin'
15:47 FROGGS o/
15:47 yoleaux 20 Sep 2015 10:14Z <jnthn> FROGGS: thanks, added those to https://gist.github.com/jnthn/040f4502899d39b2cbb4
15:50 [Coke] GLoRious
15:51 ilmari a workaround would be to do my $panda-ecosystem = Panda::Ecosystem.new(...); return $panda-ecosystem;
15:52 timotimo yeah
15:52 timotimo i actually do have commit access to panda ...
15:52 ilmari I guess the promotion should only be inhibited at the top-level of return's arguments
15:52 [Coke] 04-phasers/pre-post.t is dying with a SORRY.
15:52 ilmari not when parsing arguments to other subs/methods within the return
15:53 baest_ joined #perl6
15:53 timotimo i've committed something
15:54 ilmari is there a good perl6-mode for emacs?
15:55 lizmat [Coke]: it's been for a while  :-(
15:57 [Coke] m: sub bar(Int $i) { POST { $i < 5 } }
15:57 camelia rakudo-moar b578b4: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Lexical '$_' already declared␤»
15:57 [Coke] ^^
15:59 xinming joined #perl6
16:00 [Coke] m: sub bar { POST {} }
16:00 camelia rakudo-moar b578b4: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Lexical '$_' already declared␤»
16:00 [Coke] m: POST {}
16:00 camelia rakudo-moar b578b4: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Lexical '$_' already declared␤»
16:00 [Coke] whee.
16:02 * japhb waves from his usual morning location: in a bus in a traffic jam
16:03 lizmat japhb o/
16:03 japhb timotimo: Did you ever merge your new benchmarks into perl6-bench?
16:03 timotimo oh
16:03 timotimo perhaps i didn't
16:03 timotimo gimme a sec
16:03 japhb np
16:04 timotimo pushed
16:04 dalek perl6-bench: d0b8fda | timotimo++ | microbenchmarks.pl:
16:04 dalek perl6-bench: add a benchmark for 2d indices with unpacking
16:04 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/d0b8fdaf07
16:04 japhb lizmat++  # Lots and lots of optimization work on commonly-used paths
16:04 japhb Thanks, timotimo
16:04 nine ilmari: that's already fixed. And I've so far failed to reproduce the bug outside of panda.
16:05 timotimo lizmat: if you're interested, i think putting the values of an xx into an array could be GLRified for big wins
16:05 lizmat japhb: for me it's really just getting a feel of the GLR and it's possibility
16:05 lizmat *ies
16:05 lizmat timotimo: noted
16:05 lizmat I'm eyeing Str.split and Str.comb atm
16:07 dalek roast: 9505191 | coke++ | S04-phasers/pre-post.t:
16:07 dalek roast: Merge duplicate tickets
16:07 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9505191ebe
16:07 timotimo ah, cool
16:08 japhb Yeah, I'm going to need to do that at some point too (really get a feel for the GLR API and its possibilities).  For now most of my GLR-ification has been unbreaking places in my code that assumed different flattening behavior.
16:09 larion joined #perl6
16:09 japhb .ask jnthn Are the specs for GLR internal API on your short list?  Or is there other stuff in front of them?
16:09 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
16:11 timotimo lizmat: did you get behind why some code was calling push-one over and over, instead of using push-exactly?
16:13 * [Coke] is bisecting the POST failure..
16:13 perl6_newbee joined #perl6
16:14 lizmat timotimo: no, I didn't look into that further:
16:14 timotimo maybe i can lend a hand
16:15 lizmat and it was "push-exactly" being called with 1 , rather than pull-one()
16:15 timotimo ah
16:17 moritz japhb: fwiw doc.perl6.org has something on the Iterator API
16:17 moritz japhb: as well as Seq
16:17 dalek rakudo/nom: 5253ae0 | lizmat++ | src/core/Str.pm:
16:17 dalek rakudo/nom: Make Str.ords about 3x as fast
16:17 dalek rakudo/nom:
16:17 dalek rakudo/nom: Also intruduce a basic ProcessStr role for convenience in further work
16:17 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5253ae0e6d
16:17 dalek rakudo/nom: e2482f4 | lizmat++ | src/core/Str.pm:
16:17 dalek rakudo/nom: Make Str.lines consume the ProcessStr role
16:17 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e2482f4a19
16:17 moritz http://doc.perl6.org/type/Iterator http://doc.perl6.org/type/Seq
16:19 moritz the GLR is about much more than that, but it helped me a lot to understand those two pieces
16:24 laouji joined #perl6
16:25 [Coke] moritz: I want to add something to the six docs that would keep the title visible as you scroll down, and maybe part of the header. Any complaints/suggestions?
16:26 [Coke] also perhaps multicolumn the routines listing, as that gets kind of unweildy on long lists.
16:26 moritz [Coke]: +1 to multicolumn routine listings
16:26 spider-mario joined #perl6
16:26 moritz [Coke]: -0.5 to sticky title; what's the use case?
16:27 [Coke] So I know where I am when I'm 20 page-downs on a page.
16:27 [Coke] and have an easy way to jump to the next thing.
16:27 [Coke] (without having to scroll back to top)
16:27 dalek doc: e320a97 | TimToady++ | lib/Type/Seq.pod:
16:27 dalek doc: s/.lines/.cache/
16:27 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e320a9776e
16:27 TimToady er, .list
16:28 moritz [Coke]: I usually look at the title bar of my browser window for that
16:29 dalek doc: 9cf2469 | coke++ | lib/Type/PositionalBindFailover.pod:
16:29 dalek doc: fix typos
16:29 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9cf2469875
16:29 moritz sticky titles permantently use up screen estate, and are annoying on low-powered devices
16:30 timotimo agreed; if you put something in, make sure it's "responsive"
16:30 [Coke] lack of navigation is a PITA for people spending a long time going to different locations on the site.
16:30 [Coke] I'll mock something up for that part instead of just committing, we can argue about an implementation. :)
16:32 dalek rakudo/nom: 07ef13a | lizmat++ | src/core/Str.pm:
16:32 dalek rakudo/nom: Make Str.comb() about 3x as fast
16:32 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/07ef13a1ed
16:33 japhb moritz: Thanks for the doc pointers!
16:35 japhb jnthn++ # Making the internal API good enough to gain us such nice performance wins
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16:58 dnmfarrell good afternoon sixers! I've written an article on setting Vim syntax highlighting for Perl 6 files. It's not yet live, but would you mind taking a look (particularly the Conclusion) and letting me know if I'm way off base here? Planning to publish it later this week. https://perltricks.com/article/194/2015/9/21/​Activating-Perl-6-syntax-highlighting-in-Vim
17:01 hoelzro dnmfarrell: nice writeup! btw, vim-perl has a script for determining whether or a not a script looks like Perl 6: https://github.com/vim-perl/vim-pe​rl/blob/master/ftdetect/perl11.vim
17:02 dnmfarrell nice work hoelzro !
17:02 [Coke] jnthn: you broke POST with a328aab7acd070b5c0a5565a5840e26706484f5a
17:03 [TuxCM] joined #perl6
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17:03 * [Coke] updates RT #124961
17:03 lizmat m: "aaaa".comb("aa").say   # this feels wrong
17:03 camelia rakudo-moar 07ef13: OUTPUT«(aa aa aa)␤»
17:05 [Coke] lizmat: I recall something like :overlap somewhere. don't see it on comb, though.
17:05 [Coke] m: "92p3874234".comb(/../).say
17:05 camelia rakudo-moar 07ef13: OUTPUT«(92 p3 87 42 34)␤»
17:05 [Coke] m: "aaaa".comb(/'aa'/).say
17:05 camelia rakudo-moar 07ef13: OUTPUT«(aa aa)␤»
17:06 lizmat yeah., so it's wrong
17:06 [Coke] oh. That's probably my fault. I think I just implemented that at SPW.
17:06 [Coke] Want me to fix it?
17:07 [Coke] ah, it was the GLR-ified.
17:08 rurban joined #perl6
17:08 [Coke] *then
17:09 [Coke] oh, maybe I did the regex one? That was actual weeks ago, I have no idea. :)
17:09 laouji joined #perl6
17:09 lizmat no pb, fixing it now  :-)
17:12 dalek rakudo/nom: a297b94 | lizmat++ | src/core/Str.pm:
17:12 dalek rakudo/nom: Add twigils, for consistency
17:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a297b94b2a
17:20 [Coke] t/spec/S17-supply/watch-path.t failed under high TEST_JOBS
17:21 timotimo did i already report that split_string_constant has become 8.5x slower since the pre-glr release?
17:24 timotimo oh, and there's "rand" which is also slower compared to pre-glr, but that's most probably just the for-to-while optimization missing
17:25 [Coke] might be worth opening RTs so we don't lose those reports.
17:26 [Coke] (and tagging them [GLR])
17:39 TimToady turns out that making List a distinguished smartmatch return value does not interfere with List.ACCEPTS, so we're just gonna leave it there
17:39 laouji joined #perl6
17:40 TimToady however, the current semantics are wimpy, and even mis-implemented (won't work on wildcards over non-numerics), so we're gonna powerup to recursive smartmatch, and do the variable-width wildcard with ** instead of *
17:40 TimToady so * will match a single list item
17:42 [TuxCM] joined #perl6
17:43 [Coke] m: say $\
17:43 camelia rakudo-moar 07ef13: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/4UbBiB4LPa␤Confused␤at /tmp/4UbBiB4LPa:1␤------> 3say $\7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        postfix␤»
17:43 TimToady Using !== instead of !=== is the cause for RT #123144 btw
17:43 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=123144
17:43 TimToady so that'll fix too
17:43 [Coke] TimToady: ^^ that looks like an extra <terminator> is in the rule for $\ that might want to go away.
17:43 [Coke] (RT #123887)
17:43 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=123887
17:44 TimToady m: say $\   ;
17:44 camelia rakudo-moar 07ef13: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/PRBAlRRvqv␤Unsupported use of $\ variable; in Perl 6 please use the filehandle's .nl attribute␤at /tmp/PRBAlRRvqv:1␤------> 3say $\7⏏5   ;␤»
17:44 TimToady m: say $\  .WHAT
17:44 camelia rakudo-moar 07ef13: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/FLP4dQ1YE9␤Unsupported use of $\ variable; in Perl 6 please use the filehandle's .nl attribute␤at /tmp/FLP4dQ1YE9:1␤------> 3say $\7⏏5  .WHAT␤»
17:44 TimToady so not parsing as unspace
17:45 TimToady m: say $\␤
17:45 camelia rakudo-moar 07ef13: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Sx6z8Pl479␤Unsupported use of $\ variable; in Perl 6 please use the filehandle's .nl attribute␤at /tmp/Sx6z8Pl479:1␤------> 3say $\7⏏5<EOL>␤»
17:45 TimToady it doesn't recognize $\ at EOF, is all
17:46 [Coke] Right.
17:47 [Coke] the token for that has an explicit <terminator> which isn't included in most of the other var tokens near it, which was my guess. Figured it was LHF for you. :)
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18:21 bartolin good evening, #perl6
18:22 bartolin can someone give me a pointer what the syntax $var:adverb is about?
18:22 bartolin m: my $a = 5; say $a:foobar
18:22 camelia rakudo-moar a297b9: OUTPUT«5␤»
18:31 mst [Coke]: if you happen to remember where, I'
18:32 mst [Coke]: if you happen to remember where, I'd love to look; if you don't immediately, no need to spend time looking for it now, I won't be using it any time soon, I'll ask you when I'm closer :)
18:36 TimToady std: my $a = 5; say $a:foobar
18:36 camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Variable $a:foobar is not predeclared at /tmp/EXcAAgx311 line 1:␤------> 3my $a = 5; say 7⏏5$a:foobar␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:00 137m␤»
18:37 TimToady std and rakudo have a difference of opinion there
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18:40 mr_ron m; my $a:b = 3; say $a:b
18:40 gt9k joined #perl6
18:41 mr_ron m: my $a:b = 3; say $a:b
18:41 camelia rakudo-moar a297b9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/H_ObjCSL9C␤Variable '$a' is not declared␤at /tmp/H_ObjCSL9C:1␤------> 3my $a:b = 3; say 7⏏5$a:b␤»
18:42 lizmat m: "abcd".comb.say; "abcd".comb("").say   # shouldn't these be the same ?
18:42 camelia rakudo-moar a297b9: OUTPUT«(a b c d)␤(    )␤»
18:43 TimToady you're confusing comb with split
18:43 lizmat not really, just looking at the implementation of Str.comb  :-)
18:44 TimToady comb returns what was matched, and "" can never match a character
18:44 lizmat I guess .comb("") combs out 5 empty strings between 4 letters above
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18:47 bartolin TimToady: interesting, thanks! I found three tests in roast which look related. (with grep -r '\$[a-z]\+:[a-z]')
18:47 bartolin m: use Test; throws-like { EVAL q[my $fo:o::b:ar = "bla"] }, X::Syntax::Confused, "var names cannot have colons in their names either"
18:47 camelia rakudo-moar a297b9: OUTPUT«    1..2␤    ok 1 - code dies␤    ok 2 - right exception type (X::Syntax::Confused)␤ok 1 - var names cannot have colons in their names either␤»
18:48 bartolin m: use Test; my $three = 3; my $thing = 1 ?? $three:foo !! 2; is $three, 3, "variable and adverb in second part of ternary"
18:48 camelia rakudo-moar a297b9: OUTPUT«ok 1 - variable and adverb in second part of ternary␤»
18:48 bartolin m: my $a = 1; eval-dies-ok q[$a:delete], "Cannot :delete a scalar"
18:48 camelia rakudo-moar a297b9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/3VH3rAYDXq␤Undeclared routine:␤    eval-dies-ok used at line 1␤␤»
18:48 bartolin m: use Test; my $a = 1; eval-dies-ok q[$a:delete], "Cannot :delete a scalar"
18:48 camelia rakudo-moar a297b9: OUTPUT«ok 1 - Cannot :delete a scalar␤»
18:49 bartolin at least that last one seems to pass for the wrong reason:
18:49 rurban joined #perl6
18:49 bartolin m: use Test; eval-dies-ok q[my $a = 1; $a:delete], "Cannot :delete a scalar"
18:49 camelia rakudo-moar a297b9: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - Cannot :delete a scalar␤␤# Failed test 'Cannot :delete a scalar'␤# at /tmp/aWCh6BtzOu line 1␤»
18:50 larion joined #perl6
18:50 bartolin so, roast seems to have a difference of opinion there, too :-)
18:53 lizmat eval-dies-ok and dies-ok are evil, in my opinion, as they very easily create false positives
18:54 laouji joined #perl6
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18:54 jnthn [Coke]: Oops...though that is rather odd. Hmm.
18:54 yoleaux 16:09Z <japhb> jnthn: Are the specs for GLR internal API on your short list?  Or is there other stuff in front of them?
18:55 bartolin lizmat: yeah, i stumbled about this while trying to replace 'eval-dies-ok q[...]' with 'dies-ok { EVAL q[...] }'
18:55 [Coke] mst: what?
18:56 jnthn .tell japhb Well, they're on the shortlist, yeah, but stuff figuring out the JIT issue that causes Panda explosions is higher priority... :)
18:56 yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to japhb.
18:59 bartolin lizmat: wrt dies-ok: if there is no typed exception, then 'dies-ok { EVAL q[...] }' is equivalent with 'throws-like q[...], Exception', isn't it?
19:00 lizmat well, one would hope
19:00 lizmat better is probably X::AdHoc
19:01 lizmat Exception is too broad, that would also cover any other exception
19:01 jnthn Well, otoh Exception means the test will keep working if we upgrade to a typed exception.
19:01 dalek rakudo/nom: af39b8d | lizmat++ | src/core/Str.pm:
19:01 dalek rakudo/nom: Make Str.comb("a")/comb("a",limit) 50x faster
19:01 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/af39b8d800
19:02 lizmat jnthn: then one might as well use dies-ok
19:02 jnthn We should prolly audit our remaining non-typed ones thrown in CORE and the compiler ahead of 6.christmas
19:02 jnthn lizmat: Indeed :)
19:02 vendethiel lizmat: is there any kind of performance benefit from moving the class out of the function?
19:02 vendethiel or does our very smart compiler/vm takes care of this sort of stuff for me? :)
19:03 lizmat vendethiel: not sure if I follow you
19:03 vendethiel lizmat++: move the anonymous class out of the function (in your last commit)
19:03 lizmat did I?
19:04 vendethiel I'm asking if it'd improve performance
19:04 mst [Coke]: < [Coke]> mst: Pretty sure I have a tcl grammar lying about somewhere.
19:04 jnthn vendethiel: There was a benefit, then I fixed our code-gen, and now there ain't really :)
19:04 vendethiel nice :-)
19:04 lizmat vendethiel: I'm pretty sure I left it inside the function
19:04 [Coke] mst: https://github.com/partcl/partcl-nq​p/blob/master/src/Partcl/Grammar.pm
19:05 [Coke] From my unfinshed attempt to migrate from parrot-nqp to perl6/nqp
19:05 mst ta
19:05 [Coke] (you can tell it's old because it's got :pirop's in it!)
19:08 mr_ron left #perl6
19:12 jdv79 and its got par in the name...
19:13 [Coke] that was historic. I wasn't going to change the name of the project at that point.
19:14 mst [Coke]: cute, though I'm faintly confused by the true/false as a first class thing
19:14 [Coke] oh, here:
19:14 [Coke] https://github.com/partcl/partcl-n​qp/blob/nqp2/src/Partcl/Grammar.pm
19:14 mst that's not how tcls normally work
19:14 jnthn It means we get to make partcl accelerator puns if we make it run faster :P
19:15 jdv79 let the par rot
19:15 [Coke] that's a slightly better version that might work on Moar but probably doesn't.
19:15 [Coke] mst: sure, probably some cheats there.
19:15 [Coke] mst: note that the true/false in that grammar aren't referenced by anything else.
19:16 japhb jnthn: Gotcha, thank you
19:16 yoleaux 18:56Z <jnthn> japhb: Well, they're on the shortlist, yeah, but stuff figuring out the JIT issue that causes Panda explosions is higher priority... :)
19:16 [Coke] they are just tokens that we can use later to verify if a string is trueish
19:16 mst ah, right, ok
19:17 mst sorry, I just skimmed it
19:17 mst ...
19:17 mst jnthn: admittedly, the mental image I got for 'panda explosions' was AWESOME
19:17 mst jnthn: GIB! GIB! GIB! GIB!
19:18 [Coke] GIB: CGI Technologies and Solutions Inc , 37.18 up .99
19:19 jnthn :P
19:20 ab6tract joined #perl6
19:20 jnthn Well, it'll be tomorrow before I do that bug hunt. Full of cold and have to get up and give a talk in the morning...
19:20 rurban joined #perl6
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19:26 lizmat jnthn: get well
19:27 brrt yes, do that
19:27 brrt meanwhile, i have an hypothesis
19:27 brrt but it requires some checking
19:27 jnthn lizmat: Thanks...think it's nothing more than a minor cold.
19:27 jnthn Just annoying more than anything.
19:28 lizmat know the feeliing   :-)
19:34 brrt ok, my suspicion is very strongly that with and without jit rakudo compiles panda in different ways
19:34 rurban joined #perl6
19:34 brrt i'm... not 100% convinced that is the case
19:35 brrt but there are certainly suspicious things in the patch
19:35 brrt wait
19:35 brrt actuall in the diff
19:36 flussence joined #perl6
19:38 brrt ok, i'm wrong, that's certainly not it
19:38 brrt (same exact MAST once compilation identifiers have been removed)
19:39 laouji joined #perl6
19:39 * [Coke] wonders again if he should add panda to the daily runs.
19:39 * [Coke] guesses so.
19:39 dalek perl6-roast-data: ea1f8a4 | coke++ | / (9 files):
19:39 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
19:39 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/ea1f8a4fd5
19:40 brrt i have one more theory up my sleeve
19:41 brrt the extop check for the moarvm interpreter has finer granularity than the invokish check i'm currently using
19:41 kolikov left #perl6
19:41 * nine is crossing fingers
19:41 jnthn brrt: Good luck!
19:42 jnthn 'night, #perl6
19:42 brrt goodnight :-)
19:42 nine Good night!
19:43 muraiki joined #perl6
19:45 dalek roast: e7bb759 | usev6++ | S03-binding/ (3 files):
19:45 dalek roast: Replace eval-dies-ok with throws-like in S03-binding/*
19:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e7bb759971
19:45 dalek roast: 69f7679 | usev6++ | S32-array/ (4 files):
19:45 dalek roast: Replace most eval-dies-ok with throws-like in S32-array/*
19:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/69f7679f41
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: 2473067 | lizmat++ | src/core/Iterator.pm:
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: Add 'bool-only' method for Iterators
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: The idea being that if we want the boolean value of a Seq, we can call this
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: method (which would only do a pull-one once), and thus save a *lot* of work.
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: Making Seq.Bool call this method, only causes 1 test-file with errors:
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: t/spec/S03-smartmatch/signature-signature.t . Not sure whether that are
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: just lame tests or something more nefarious.  Waiting for a general ++ from
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: jnthn for the concept before digging deeper into this.
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/247306731c
19:50 lizmat with this change, something like "if @a.grep{something} { " would become very fast, as it would become equivalent to @a.first(something)
19:50 lizmat well, technically @a.first(something).Bool
19:51 nine m: my $a = (1, 2).grep(*); say so $a for 1 .. 10;
19:51 camelia rakudo-moar af39b8: OUTPUT«True␤True␤True␤True␤Tr​ue␤True␤True␤True␤True␤True␤»
19:51 nine lizmat: ^^^
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19:52 nine Right now one can call .Bool on a Seq as often as one likes
19:52 lizmat yes, I understand
19:52 lizmat my change would change that, indeed
19:53 lizmat but the performance benefits would be very big
19:53 nine And you can simply cache the result, so you only run pull-one once
19:54 lizmat also, I was considering caching the numeric / boolean value of a Seq inside the Seq
19:54 brrt something like p6finddispatcher is basically unjittable
19:54 brrt or, almost unjittable
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19:54 brrt maybe it's marked that way
19:54 lizmat so Seq.elems would become something like $!count //= self.is-laze ?? fail.new !! self.iterator.count-only
19:55 lizmat then you could do something like 20 < @a.grep(something) < 40
19:55 lizmat and not have to actually cache the result of the grep
19:55 eternaleye joined #perl6
19:56 nine Is grep specced to actually evaluate the code for the whole list or is it allowed to shortcut that way?
19:56 lizmat good question...
19:56 larion joined #perl6
19:59 lizmat can't find much about it  :-(
20:00 brrt nope, that's not it
20:00 brrt darn
20:02 brrt damnit, it's not devirt either
20:02 brrt ok, we may rule those two out
20:02 brrt i have no good hypotheses left
20:04 colomon nine, lizmat: grep is allowed to be lazy, no?
20:05 lizmat well, I assumed so, but can't find anything in the spec about it
20:06 nine If grep is not allowed to be lazy, it's current implementation is wrong anyway, isn't it?
20:06 lizmat probably  :-)
20:07 dalek roast: ad86ccc | usev6++ | S32- (4 files):
20:07 dalek roast: Replace some eval-dies-ok with throws-like in S32-*/*
20:07 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ad86ccc350
20:08 dalek Inline-Perl5: 91d78b8 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (2 files):
20:08 dalek Inline-Perl5: Inline Sub::Util::set_subname to get rid of the dependency
20:08 dalek Inline-Perl5:
20:08 dalek Inline-Perl5: Code of set_subname copied from Sub::Util and reduced to what we actually need
20:08 dalek Inline-Perl5: for use in Inline::Perl5. This gets us rid of the only non-core dependency.
20:08 dalek Inline-Perl5: Can be reverted (and changed to Sub::Util) once we drop support for perl < 5.22
20:08 dalek Inline-Perl5:
20:08 dalek Inline-Perl5: Thanks to lizmat++ for the reminder.
20:08 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inl​ine-Perl5/commit/91d78b80ea
20:09 laouji joined #perl6
20:09 lizmat nine++  :-)
20:10 * brrt afk without succes :-(
20:16 lizmat have we tried this on the JVM to see if iits error (if any) could be enlightning?
20:20 jnthn joined #perl6
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20:23 TimToady grep is supposed to be lazy
20:23 zostay woo woo, i like the new Pair with bound values: nine++
20:24 laouji joined #perl6
20:25 zostay time to completely rethink KnottyPair
20:28 lizmat TimToady: ok, so a Seq.Bool calling Iterator.bool-only would make sense
20:28 zostay m: class C { method m($v) { say $v } }; sub s($v) { say $v }; C.new.m(42, :foo); s(42, :foo);
20:28 camelia rakudo-moar 247306: OUTPUT«42␤Unexpected named parameter 'foo' passed␤  in sub s at /tmp/1HDxKRrc5A:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/1HDxKRrc5A:1␤␤»
20:29 zostay is there a reason why extra named params work on methods, but not subs?
20:29 zostay less passive aggressive: what's the reasoning for why extra named params work on methods, but not subs?
20:34 patrickz joined #perl6
20:35 mst zostay: I don't think that's precisely true
20:35 mst zostay: I think what you're seeing is that the compiler can tell that the s() call is never going to work, so throws an exception then and there
20:36 mst zostay: whereas it can't necessarily be sure that the m() is never going to work, so doesn't throw on that
20:36 mst zostay: so you get a compile time exception from the s()
20:36 mst zostay: which means it never gets as far as running the m() call and blowing that up at runtime
20:36 mst m: class C { method m($v) { say $v } }; sub s($v) { say $v }; C.new.m(42, :foo);
20:36 camelia rakudo-moar 247306: OUTPUT«42␤»
20:36 mst or I'm completely wrong
20:36 mst never mind
20:37 mst summon somebody who knows what they're talking about :D
20:38 moritz http://design.perl6.org/S12​.html#Interface_Consistency
20:39 moritz though I still think it's a stupid rule
20:39 laouji joined #perl6
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20:42 hoelzro I wish we could tell methods "if named parameter isn't touched by you or any ancestor calls, throw an exception", but that would likely come with an unacceptably huge runtime cost
20:42 jnthn joined #perl6
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20:43 dalek roast: 347cc36 | usev6++ | S03- (6 files):
20:43 dalek roast: Replace some eval-dies-ok with throws-like in S03-*/*
20:43 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/347cc3634d
20:43 TimToady zostay: current policy is discussed in http://design.perl6.org/S12​.html#Interface_Consistency
20:43 TimToady but yes, it would be nice to know if something is unused
20:45 lizmat hoelzro: afaik, jnthn has some ideas about it, but I'm afraid they will wind up on the nope list for now
20:45 hoelzro lizmat: I'm guessing it's 6.1 if anything?
20:46 lizmat I would hope so  :-)
20:48 hoelzro wouldn't changing that behavior break otherwise functional 6.0 programs?
20:48 hoelzro or would it only be active if one has 'use 6.1' in scope?
20:49 lizmat I can think of scenario's where this would break code, indeed
20:52 PerlJam hoelzro: assuming we have a way to actually make that work.
20:52 hoelzro right
20:53 hoelzro PerlJam: I would love to hear jnthn's ideas on the matter, but it's not a priority atm, I understand
20:54 lizmat exploding panda is
20:54 lizmat .oo( teasing mst with the imagery )
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21:10 lizmat Attempt at making rand xx N two times faster: https://gist.github.com/li​zmat/b74af9a1d79a9f48bf8b
21:11 lizmat m: say q/Whfg nabgure Crey unpxre/.trans('a .. z' => 'n .. za .. m', 'A .. Z' => 'N .. ZA .. M')   # hangs with the above change
21:11 camelia rakudo-moar 247306: OUTPUT«Whfg nnbgure Crey unpxre␤»
21:11 patrickz What program file types can I expect to find in the Perl6 ecosystem (on Windows)? Executables, Perl6, .bat, Perl?, anything else?
21:13 lizmat Attempt at making "foo" xx * three times faster: https://gist.github.com/li​zmat/a24f1fb4c2d3d8aa7465
21:14 lizmat also causes several test failures, most notably related to meta-ops:
21:14 lizmat m: say (0,0,0,0,0,0) >>+>> (Slip(1,2,3) xx *)   # non-dwimmy hyperop must have same length: left: 1 elements, right: 3 elements
21:14 camelia rakudo-moar 247306: OUTPUT«(1 2 3 1 2 3)␤»
21:15 lizmat leaving these patches for some other eyeballs to see, as mine are getting to tired now
21:15 lizmat *too
21:17 hoelzro .tell pmurias I added support for negative bitwise ops to node-bignum for nqp-js: https://github.com/justmoon/node-bignum/pull/61
21:17 yoleaux hoelzro: I'll pass your message to pmurias.
21:18 leont Just wondering, is there a difference between Seq.cache and Seq.list?
21:19 TimToady yes, .list no longer caches
21:20 TimToady all .list means now is "gimme something that can act like a list"
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: 8394bc7 | TimToady++ | src/core/ (2 files):
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: List.ACCEPTS now uses ~~ and treats ** as glob
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: List.ACCEPTS was really wimpy and not pulling its weight.  It now
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: recursively matches a list with smartmatch.  Since * is a valid smartmatch
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: matching a single item, we now use ** as the globber that can match
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: multiple items, which is more consistent with the rest of the language.
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: And since the submatches are now approximate, we can get temporary false
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: positives, so in that case it now backtracks more like regex patterns do.
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8394bc7261
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: b7cabad | TimToady++ | src/core/List.pm:
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: accidentally broke List as OKness
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b7cabadb5a
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: a6b9e8d | TimToady++ | t/spectest.data:
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: remove bogus/obsolete spectests
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a6b9e8d83c
21:21 dalek rakudo/nom: 8cc5f80 | TimToady++ | src/core/List.pm:
21:22 dalek rakudo/nom: List.ACCEPTS now only passes Match lists as self
21:22 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8cc5f80018
21:22 dalek roast: 90ba9fc | TimToady++ | S03-smartmatch/a (2 files):
21:22 dalek roast: test new powered-up List.ACCEPTS semantics
21:22 dalek roast:
21:22 dalek roast: Also fixes RT#123144 as it happens.
21:22 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=123144
21:22 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/90ba9fc730
21:22 rangerprice joined #perl6
21:24 leont I see, thanks!
21:30 pmurias joined #perl6
21:30 pmurias hoelzro: great :)
21:30 yoleaux 21:17Z <hoelzro> pmurias: I added support for negative bitwise ops to node-bignum for nqp-js: https://github.com/justmoon/node-bignum/pull/61
21:31 hoelzro we'll see if/when they accept it =/
21:31 pmurias hoelzro: I'll get back to work on nqp-js tommorow
21:32 hoelzro excellent!
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 871268e | lizmat++ | t/harness:
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Add randomize option
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: The idea being that if test files are executed in random order, the ones that
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: are twiddling their thumbs (like the S17-supply tests) will be more evenly
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: distributed over the course of the test, and thus cause a lower wallclock
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: time.  So far, that didn't turn out the case just yet. :-(  Adding the option
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: for further testing anyway.
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/871268e72e
22:07 TEttinger joined #perl6
22:07 lizmat took me a while to figure out how to to @a.pick(*) again in Perl 5  :-)
22:08 lizmat and on that note, I wish #perl6 a good night
22:10 colomon o/
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22:42 TimToady m: say (1,2,3,4,5) ~~ (**, Cool, 3, **, 5)
22:42 camelia rakudo-moar 871268: OUTPUT«True␤»
22:42 TimToady m: say (1,2,3,4,5) ~~ (**, Cool, * == 5)
22:42 camelia rakudo-moar 871268: OUTPUT«True␤»
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23:17 TimToady hmm, #?v6.0.0+ seems like a fudge line that is guaranteed to break the moment we release 6.0.0
23:19 avuserow joined #perl6
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23:26 ShimmerFairy TimToady: I don't think I've ever seen it used, to be honest. I don't know where it would be used, and I'm not sure how it would be more useful than, say, tags/branches on roast for particular P6 versions.
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23:27 mantovani the perl6 compiler production ready will be released this year ?
23:29 TimToady mantovani: that's the plan
23:30 zostay thx TimToady
23:30 rurban joined #perl6
23:31 ShimmerFairy TimToady: surprisingly, every single '#?v6...' line comes from 2015 (or at least was last touched this year) O_o
23:32 TimToady it's intended to indicate things that are post-6.0, but it's botched a bit, since 6.0.0+ includes 6.0.0
23:33 TimToady also, our version numbers don't support v6.christmas and such
23:33 ShimmerFairy TimToady: I think that's why some of them use arbitrary later version numbers, which seems just as bad, if not worse
23:33 mantovani does rakudo runs under AIX ?
23:33 ShimmerFairy m: say Version.new("6.christmas"); # we can have Versions like that, just not version literals :P
23:33 camelia rakudo-moar 871268: OUTPUT«v6.christmas␤»
23:34 TimToady mantovani: only supporting Linus, OSX, and Windows to begin with
23:35 mantovani How can I contribute to run under AIX ?
23:35 mantovani That's importante for me.
23:35 TimToady well, it just needs someone to port it
23:36 mantovani that's a guide, I mean people already did for Windows and OSX.
23:36 mantovani maybe there is a doc
23:38 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
23:39 mantovani s/that's a guide,/there is a guide ?/
23:40 thundergnat joined #perl6
23:40 mantovani "migration to an OS considerations"
23:44 ShimmerFairy mantovani: if AIX can run the JVM, then you can try rakudo on jvm. The other option would be to add AIX support to MoarVM (which I don't think there's an explicit guide for at the moment, and I wouldn't know how it'd be done myself).
23:53 ShimmerFairy mantovani: if AIX can handle most things that assume posix, then platform shouldn't be an issue for MoarVM (I wouldn't think). The only concern might be what kind of processor you have, but I don't know MVM enough to say where processor-dependent things will crop up.
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23:57 TimToady well, you might not get to have a JIT if it's not x86
23:58 ShimmerFairy Yes, that's the one thing I saw in Moar's source, at least via filenames. You'd have to add a JIT for your platform if it's not x86 or x86_64
23:59 ShimmerFairy (you can run without a jit though, it's not a requirement for having a usable moarvm)

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