Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-09-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:05 dalek rakudo/nom: e373fbf | TimToady++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
00:05 dalek rakudo/nom: common listops should propage laziness
00:05 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e373fbfc49
00:05 dalek rakudo/nom: fee365b | TimToady++ | src/core/Any.pm:
00:05 dalek rakudo/nom: lazy-if is a no-op on non-Iterables
00:05 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fee365bc3e
00:05 dalek roast: 4292ebe | TimToady++ | integration/advent2009-day23.t:
00:05 dalek roast: map listop now propagates laziness
00:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4292ebe544
00:05 dalek roast: bd8f5fa | TimToady++ | S02-literals/radix.t:
00:05 dalek roast: missing colon on :2
00:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/bd8f5facef
00:05 dalek roast: be0c818 | TimToady++ | S02-names/pseudo.t:
00:05 dalek roast: distinguish OUTERS from OUTER these days
00:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/be0c818df0
00:05 dalek roast: b318b44 | TimToady++ | S02-names-vars/list_array_perl.t:
00:05 dalek roast: GLRify some fudges
00:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b318b44404
00:05 dalek roast: fa1ebb1 | TimToady++ | S02-names-vars/perl.t:
00:05 dalek roast: update tests on recursive structures
00:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fa1ebb1cfa
00:06 ShimmerFairy mantovani: I'd recommend trying to compile MoarVM for your system, and seeing where it breaks, if anywhere. Even if you're not able to fix it, I'm sure we'd like to know where MoarVM needs improvement on other systems :)
00:07 ShimmerFairy mantovani: http://moarvm.org/  website for MoarVM
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00:18 dalek roast: 3e0760f | TimToady++ | S02-types/baghash.t:
00:18 dalek roast: bags no longer iterable
00:18 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3e0760f8bd
00:18 dalek roast: 7e338ab | TimToady++ | S02-types/ (4 files):
00:18 dalek roast: mixy things aren't Iterable
00:18 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7e338abafa
00:23 mantovani ShimmerFairy: thank you
00:23 dalek roast: 8088700 | TimToady++ | S03-metaops/cross.t:
00:23 dalek roast: X is naturally chunky now
00:23 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8088700ce1
00:23 Zoffix TimToady++ is on the roll! :)
00:24 ShimmerFairy mantovani: you're welcome, and I hope you'll find P6 useful for you :)
00:25 mantovani Perl6 the language is so good that there is not adjective to describe it.
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00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: fe4d6ca | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: implement hyper prefix
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fe4d6cacdc
00:38 dalek roast: 783eba7 | TimToady++ | S03-metaops/eager-hyper.t:
00:38 dalek roast: hyper prefix parses now
00:38 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/783eba7aa0
00:38 TimToady well, but now I'm gonna be on a dinner roll :)
00:38 TimToady afk &
00:53 ShimmerFairy .ask TimToady oh, speaking of hyper, I've been wondering if »».foo would be a nice short version of .race.foo (like ».foo for .hyper.foo), or if that's too cute a syntax in this case.
00:53 yoleaux ShimmerFairy: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
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01:10 flussence jit was x86-64-only last I heard... has anything changed on that front recently?
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02:58 JimmyZ .tell lizmat re https://gist.github.com/li???zmat/b74af9a1d79a9f48bf8b, s/if $!todo/if $!todo >= 0/
02:58 yoleaux JimmyZ: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
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04:00 dalek rakudo/nom: e786ddd | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
04:00 dalek rakudo/nom: add race prefix while we're at it
04:00 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e786ddd921
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05:18 masak morning, #perl6
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06:34 [Tux] test             50000    35.454    35.368
06:34 [Tux] test-t           50000    36.665    36.579
06:35 nine flussence: no, it's still x86_64
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07:02 moritz \o masak, nine, [Tux], *
07:02 [Tux] o/
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07:21 Ven not sure who to ping for http://www.slideshare.net/garux/introduo-ao-perl-6, but there's a typo in the `if` slide 97
07:22 mst I would bet garu_
07:22 mst garu_: ^^
07:32 lizmat messages?
07:32 yoleaux 02:58Z <JimmyZ> lizmat: re https://gist.github.com/li???zmat/b74af9a1d79a9f48bf8b, s/if $!todo/if $!todo >= 0/
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07:51 * RabidGravy is back
07:51 RabidGravy Brrrr!
07:56 lizmat RabidGravy o/
08:02 RabidGravy are we all well?
08:02 lizmat we're all a bit tired...  I guess  :-)
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08:14 pmurias hi
08:16 _itz "the ibiza comedown, man?" :)
08:21 RabidGravy :)
08:21 RabidGravy brane wasn't entirely online yesterday
08:27 dalek rakudo/nom: 3ae4f4f | lizmat++ | src/core/List.pm:
08:27 dalek rakudo/nom: Cosmetic change on foo xx N
08:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3ae4f4fb5a
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10:30 dalek rakudo/nom: b5a5bfe | lizmat++ | src/core/List.pm:
10:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Make rand xx N about 2.5x faster
10:30 dalek rakudo/nom:
10:30 dalek rakudo/nom: JimmyZ++ for the pointer on why it didn't work before
10:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b5a5bfe023
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11:03 Loren joined #perl6
11:03 Loren Evening , #perl6 and everyone.
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11:09 moritz jnthn++ # http://news.perlfoundation.org/2015/09/perl-6-release-goals-initial-g.html
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11:13 CQ Native and Shaped Arrays (NSA) .... maybe we can rename that? :)
11:14 JimmyZ No Such Agency
11:14 nine CQ: where would be the fun then?
11:18 _itz wasn't classic perl written by the NSA anyway :)
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11:19 moritz no, JPL
11:19 moritz a different TLA :-)
11:19 jnthn moritz: heh, you just beat me to posting that here :)
11:19 * jnthn was backlogging to see if anyone had posted it already ;)
11:20 moritz jnthn: well, that was my advantage, I didn't backlog :-)
11:21 jnthn TimToady: I was wondering if hyper and race as prefux are really going to work out well, in so far as .hyper and .race opt you into that processing model, and putting them "on the end" doesn't work quite so well
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11:29 jnthn TimToady: Of note, I was thinking race for @a -> $x { } should be @a.race.map(-> $x { })
11:29 brrt good *
11:30 brrt have we any idea on the panda breakage yet?
11:30 nine jnthn: can't the compiler generate the @a.race.map code for race for @a?
11:30 nine brrt: not that I'm aware of
11:30 jnthn nine: Prolly, though TimToady++'s patch didn't do that, which is why I'm moting it :)
11:30 jnthn *noting
11:30 brrt i've ruled out: reprop devirt, different compilation strategies, and i think i've ruled out extop misjit, but not 100%
11:31 brrt i mean different compilation output
11:31 jnthn Is it inline sensitive?
11:31 jnthn OSR sensitive?
11:31 nine brrt: are we sure that my code is actually correct? Maybe it works more or less by accident and the JIT just breaks what ought to be broken anyway?
11:31 brrt it seems pretty correct to me
11:31 jnthn nine: The JIT should not change semantics
11:31 brrt jnthn: i'll test
11:32 jnthn brrt: Figure you know already, but there's env vars for those also
11:32 brrt i do :-)
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11:33 brrt hmm, wait
11:35 _itz GSK::Simple uses nqp to manipulate a queue and uses the obsolete "p6parcel", is that fairly simple to fix with a replacement nqp op or not?
11:35 brrt insenstive to OSR (iirc, MVM_SPESH_OSR_DISABLE=1 should kill osr?)
11:35 brrt it is, in fact, inline-sensitive
11:36 brrt can't really claim that makes the searchspace much smaller
11:38 jnthn Well, it means it's JIT + inline
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11:38 Goblin_ How to deploy perl6 application?
11:38 jnthn _itz: Try nqp::hllize
11:38 _itz ty
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11:44 _itz that seems to work .. at least the test passes
11:44 brrt hmmmmmmmmmm
11:44 brrt do you know just how many frames are compiled in panda? :-(
11:46 brrt 659 frames before this stuff is even run
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11:49 brrt talking about needles and haystacks :-)
11:49 brrt anyway, bbiab
11:52 dalek gtk-simple: 8102aba | (Steve Mynott)++ | lib/GTK/Simple.pm6:
11:52 dalek gtk-simple: rename nqp::p6parcel to nqp::hllize as suggested by jnthn++ test now passes post GLR
11:52 dalek gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/commit/8102abae64
11:52 dalek gtk-simple: 9bfe7e9 | niner++ | lib/GTK/Simple.pm6:
11:52 dalek gtk-simple: Merge pull request #14 from stmuk/master
11:52 dalek gtk-simple:
11:52 dalek gtk-simple: rename nqp::p6parcel to nqp::hllize as suggested by jnthn++ test now passes post GLR
11:52 dalek gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/commit/9bfe7e9da4
11:54 _itz hmm I'm still seeing problems with nativecall not finding debian .so with .0 on the end
12:01 ShimmerFairy _itz: make sure it's not really a linker script
12:02 _itz I'm wondering if it's because I'm using multiarch
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12:10 colomon Could not download module metadata: No such method 'host' for invocant of type 'HTTP::Request'
12:11 colomon :/
12:15 timotimo _itz: usually a -dev script will create the .so symlink
12:22 DrForr Ooo, Gtk fixes, maybe once I get back in the swing of things it'll be time to resurrect a project...
12:22 lizmat m: say [] xx 2   # under the one arg rule, shouldn't that be () ?
12:22 camelia rakudo-moar b5a5bf: OUTPUT«([] [])␤»
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12:23 _itz timotimo: ah I've never noticed that .. oddly aptitude installed 54 packages rather than just the -dev one in order to set that one sym link
12:23 lizmat m: say $[] xx 2   # proper way to do this post GLR ?
12:23 camelia rakudo-moar b5a5bf: OUTPUT«([] [])␤»
12:24 nine lizmat: would one-arg make any sense at all with xx?
12:24 _itz there is probably some clever debian dpkg configuration to automatically install -dev for everything
12:24 lizmat m: say ((1,2) xx 2)
12:24 camelia rakudo-moar b5a5bf: OUTPUT«((1 2) (1 2))␤»
12:25 lizmat shouldn't that be (1 2 1 2) ?
12:25 lizmat m: say (Slip(1,2) xx 2)
12:25 camelia rakudo-moar b5a5bf: OUTPUT«((1 2) (1 2))␤»
12:25 moritz lizmat: I would have expected a flat List/Seq too
12:26 nine m: say flat (1,2) xx2
12:26 camelia rakudo-moar b5a5bf: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/wgPAyihMst␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/wgPAyihMst:1␤------> 3say flat (1,2)7⏏5 xx2␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        …»
12:26 nine m: say flat (1,2) xx 2
12:26 camelia rakudo-moar b5a5bf: OUTPUT«(1 2 1 2)␤»
12:26 lizmat please note that my last commit may have broken this
12:26 lizmat I'm going to revert
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: 4601fcd | lizmat++ | src/core/List.pm:
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Revert "Make rand xx N about 2.5x faster"
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom:
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Alas, some subtleties of xx are not covered by this patch.  And the easy
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: fix does not seem to re-introduce the original behaviour.  So reverting for
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: now until we get more info.
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4601fcdf28
12:29 lizmat fwiw, giving up on speeding up xx for now...   it is a tangled web
12:31 nine lizmat: it's strange that a 2 line implementation can contain such subtleties
12:32 lizmat have you looked at the inside of GATHER lately?  :-)
12:32 lizmat in any case, I'm not sure what the required semantics are anymore
12:32 lizmat [] xx 2   should that be ([],[]) or () ?
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12:33 nine lizmat: good point :)
12:33 lizmat with one arg rule, I would think ()  and that you need $[] xx 2 to get ([],[])
12:33 lizmat but that's not the current (tested) behaviour, afaics
12:35 ShimmerFairy I see xx as "take this thing, and copy it a bunch", so one-arg rule doesn't make much sense to me at first glance.
12:36 lizmat m: dd (1,2) xx 2
12:36 camelia rakudo-moar b5a5bf: OUTPUT«((1, 2), (1, 2)).Seq␤»
12:36 lizmat m: say (1,2) xx 2
12:36 camelia rakudo-moar b5a5bf: OUTPUT«((1 2) (1 2))␤»
12:37 lizmat that's the wrong behaviour I introduced today
12:37 lizmat (1,2) should get flattened
12:37 lizmat however, if I add code to do that, [] gets flattened to () as well
12:39 lizmat I guess I need smarter code than @!cached = $!x.()
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12:39 nine Evaluates the left argument the number of times specified by the right argument. Each evaluation is in list context, and returns a Seq. The result of all these evaluations is returned as a list of arrays (which will behave differently depending on whether it's bound into a flat context or a lol context).
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12:43 brrt on the other hand, there are only a few areas in which the JIT cares about inlining at all
12:46 _itz fatal: could not create leading directories of '/etc/.panda-work/1442925884_1': Permission denied
12:46 _itz !
12:46 timotimo huh? why would you be running panda inside /etc ?!?
12:46 timotimo or is that a bug inside "find writeble directory" somehow?
12:46 _itz why does it create the directory relative and not under the ~?
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12:49 timotimo jnthn: "stabalizing" the concurrency support sounds pretty violent
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12:51 brrt it doesn't sound violent to me. different linguistic assumptions? :-)
12:54 DrForr Well, in biology stable often equates to 'dead' :)
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12:55 DrForr Maybe 'metastabilizing' :) But that sounds too close to 'metastasizing' which is even worse.
12:56 brrt hmmm
12:56 brrt still not seeing it, sorry :-)
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12:57 geekosaur typo? "stab-alising"
12:58 DrForr Oh, didn't see the 'a'.
12:58 geekosaur there is something about that typo that makes me focus on the stab- instead of seeing stable/stabile...
12:59 _itz its like the ink blots :P
12:59 timotimo brrt: i read it as "stab-alizing"
12:59 * brrt didn't see the typo either
12:59 brrt funny
13:00 brrt hmm... as far as i can see everything looks pretty innocent
13:01 brrt oh look at that, we compile 24 different news
13:01 timotimo Ulti: do you remember the parallel primes benchmark?
13:02 timotimo Ulti: it doesn't crash any more
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13:07 _itz what happened to star?
13:07 _itz JVM?
13:08 moritz _itz: I've ignored the JVM so far; I just didn't get around to writing a release announcement yet
13:08 moritz help wanted :-)
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13:09 _itz OK I'll submit a PR for the release announcement shortly
13:09 timotimo what is it that the perl6 community is this time?
13:09 timotimo thrilled, perhaps?
13:10 * _itz drinks moar coke zero
13:10 moritz agonized
13:10 timotimo hrhr
13:10 moritz exuberant
13:10 timotimo stabalized
13:10 moritz cautiously optimistic
13:12 timotimo acoustic
13:12 brrt mad
13:12 brrt but that may be just me
13:13 moritz intrigued!
13:13 jnthn timotimo: Parallel programming is hard, but I'll tkae a stab at it :P
13:19 JimmyZ timotimo: looks like nfa_stat branch is hard :P
13:22 * jnthn prolly away for the rest of the day &
13:30 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 13e2e30 | coke++ | log/ (9 files):
13:30 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
13:30 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/13e2e30498
13:30 timotimo JimmyZ: i'm not aware of that branch?
13:31 timotimo JimmyZ: you mean "nfa to statelist"?
13:32 timotimo Ulti: unfortunately i cannot really figure out if it's making progress or just twiddling its thumbs; its memory usage has been constant for a while and its CPU time has just reached 2 hours %)
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13:38 JimmyZ timotimo: yeah
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13:39 [Coke] _itz++ proper drink choices.
13:41 timotimo JimmyZ: you're trying to help out? :)
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13:48 JimmyZ timotimo: I did take some time to try to understand nfa.nqp a bit. but I don't unstand it well enough yet to do some changes.
13:48 JimmyZ *understand
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13:50 timotimo OK
13:50 _itz https://github.com/rakudo/star/pull/51
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13:50 timotimo yeah, i put some print statements all over the place to figure out what happens when
13:50 timotimo but i was missing the very important point that it's all about before and after serialization
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13:52 timotimo Ulti: i don't have a comparison value, but that benchmark runs its loop between 7 seconds and 7.5 seconds on my machine
13:53 lizmat I'm wondering whether it would make sense to give Seq and List their own .grep candidates
13:54 lizmat in the List/Array case, we wouldn't need to make an iterator to feed the values, right?
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13:54 lizmat anyways, running a spectest now on a patch that should make .grep about 2x as fast
13:57 [Coke] RT: 1,027; testneeded: 9; GLR: 3; xmas: 108
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14:10 timotimo huh, it kind of seems like the primes-parallel benchmark has a chance to get stuck somehow
14:13 timotimo https://gist.github.com/MattOates/125009c88f6ee9f5f101 - this is the benchmark in question
14:13 timotimo i wonder why replacing the ".elems == 0" with some boolification makes it b0rk
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14:17 lizmat because .elems vivifies ?
14:17 lizmat *reifies ?
14:17 timotimo fair enough, but isn't boolifying supposed to get the "does it give at least one item" as truth value?
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14:24 lizmat well, yeah, but for now, it just checks elems afaik
14:24 lizmat I actually added a "bool-only" method to Iterator yesterday
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14:24 lizmat that would allow to only fetch one value to determine truthness
14:25 lizmat self.pull-one() !=:= IterationEnd;
14:26 timotimo ah, neato
14:26 timotimo that probably fits here
14:26 timotimo we'd .Bool on the result of a .grep to get that, for example?
14:27 lizmat timotimo: thing is, that method is not getting called just yet
14:27 lizmat making Seq.Bool call that method, breaks quite a few spectests  :-(
14:27 timotimo OK, that's for the future in that case
14:27 timotimo oh? strange
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14:27 lizmat a lot of cases of Seq has been consumed
14:28 timotimo ugh, damn
14:29 nine That's gonna be hard to avoid while retaining the performance gain :/
14:29 timotimo perhaps things where you'd "if @foo { say @foo }" ?
14:29 Ulti timotimo cool I can add it to the other ones and see how it does :)
14:30 timotimo please do
14:30 timotimo hm, though in that case we've assigned to a @var already
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14:30 timotimo isn't that what triggers memoization?
14:31 lizmat yes, assigning does that  :-)
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14:32 timotimo so my example is wrong already
14:32 timotimo as in: rakudo would do the right thing
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14:33 timotimo in the code i pasted, we could use .first, though, right?
14:33 lizmat hmm....  ok, forget the grep opt
14:34 lizmat we appear to have to handle "last" in grep as well...
14:34 timotimo hum, that explodes
14:34 lizmat I don't see how I can pull that off in a pull-one (pun intended :-)
14:34 * Ulti is just building a fresh rakudo and running all the primes benchmarks
14:34 timotimo you can just have a CONTROL block, though?
14:35 lizmat hmmm....
14:35 lizmat I'm not sure how to set that up, actually...
14:35 timotimo not quite as performant as having an "only handle LAST" thingie, though
14:35 Ulti oh neat someone fixed the bug with panda?
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14:36 timotimo yeah, i put in the cheap workaround
14:36 lizmat Ulti: worked around, afaik
14:36 timotimo we're still puzzled as to why that problem happens
14:36 Ulti I forgot to turn off the JIT so thats good
14:36 Ulti timotimo++
14:37 dalek star: 0c7abc9 | (Steve Mynott)++ | docs/announce/2015.09.md:
14:37 dalek star: import of Sept 2015 release announce
14:37 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/0c7abc93dd
14:37 dalek star: 447c714 | (Steve Mynott)++ | docs/announce/2015.09.md:
14:37 dalek star: mention new tutorial
14:37 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/447c714597
14:37 dalek star: 0b227e3 | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.09.md:
14:37 dalek star: Merge pull request #51 from stmuk/master
14:37 dalek star:
14:37 dalek star: import of Sept 2015 release announce
14:37 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/0b227e3d89
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14:50 Ulti well the parallel benchmark sure is demolishing my CPU
14:50 Ulti but its about 70-100x slower than the others if the 7s is similar for me
14:50 timotimo d'oh
14:50 timotimo well, we're doing all numbes up to $max in any case
14:51 Ulti I kind of expected that though since there is a lot of overhead added to something thats a very vectorisable cacheable numeric algorithm
14:51 Ulti im sure if I tuned it a bit we could do better
14:51 Ulti like batching up a lot more numbers per thread
14:52 Ulti still cool that it now works at all :D
14:54 laouji joined #perl6
14:54 xinming Just curious, Is the Template::Mustache recommended template system for perl6? Or it's actively maintained ATM and most featureful?
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14:55 Ulti primes-parallel: ran in 8.23010632768547 seconds (σ = 0.941242886454207 seconds)
14:56 Ulti thats a nasty standard deviation too
14:56 Ulti primes-inline-loop-upto-sqrt: ran in 0.100610374864713 seconds (σ = 0.0121947911307684 seconds)
14:56 Ulti for comparisson
14:57 Ulti the native type version is marginally slower but with a much tighter standard deviation
14:59 Ulti timotimo I'll add in the sqrt constraint that might help :)
14:59 Ulti rather than checking every number
14:59 timotimo could make it better, aye
15:01 Ulti primes-parallel: ran in 0.154561128526646 seconds (σ = 0.150724504577809 seconds)
15:01 Ulti quite a bit better x____X
15:02 Ulti guess I should maybe test this actually finds them
15:02 Ulti heh
15:02 timotimo haha
15:02 timotimo yeah, i put that in in the middle,t oo
15:02 timotimo when i made it a whole lot faster, i also made it wrong
15:02 Ulti thats really nice
15:02 Ulti if working
15:04 xinming Ignore me, I understand what mustache means now.
15:05 timotimo xinming: i do not know which templating system is the most recommended one
15:06 timotimo but i think mustache is rather good
15:07 xinming timotimo: Yes. Thanks for your reply. :-)
15:07 Ulti timotimo none of these appear to be working :/
15:08 Ulti they did before though so must need some post GLR attention I'm guessing
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15:10 hoelzro o/ #perl6
15:12 timotimo oh, none of what exactly?
15:12 timotimo the other primality benchmarks?
15:17 Ulti yeah
15:17 Ulti in fact I can't work out what is wrong
15:17 Ulti push looks to not be doing what you'd expect
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15:18 timotimo oh, huh?
15:18 timotimo it only does what the spec tests expect it to :|
15:18 timotimo which may or may not be enough
15:19 lizmat whee   got the grep opt to work (I think): running final spectest
15:19 dalek nqp: 3863274 | (Pawel Murias)++ | tools/build/gen-js-makefile.nqp:
15:19 dalek nqp: Remove dead code.
15:19 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/386327474e
15:19 dalek nqp: dc55987 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (4 files):
15:19 dalek nqp: [js] start working on serialization
15:19 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/dc55987e8a
15:19 pmurias hoelzro: \o
15:19 hoelzro o/ pmurias
15:23 travis-ci joined #perl6
15:23 travis-ci NQP build passed. Pawel Murias '[js] start working on serialization'
15:23 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/nqp/builds/81607366 https://github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/17b6555833df...dc55987e8ab2
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15:29 TimToady moritz: actually, the first Perl was on a project for the NSA, and I moved to JPL shortly after Perl 1 came out
15:30 yoleaux 00:53Z <ShimmerFairy> TimToady: oh, speaking of hyper, I've been wondering if »».foo would be a nice short version of .race.foo (like ».foo for .hyper.foo), or if that's too cute a syntax in this case.
15:30 lizmat >>>>.foo   # texas race
15:31 TimToady Perl 2 to Perl 4 came out at JPL
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15:35 * mrf is going to need to learn how to generate unicode chars from his keyboard to program p6
15:35 Ulti so the parallel one is about ten times slower.... but its also doing a lot more work since all the others are only comparing to the primes already found below the square root the parallel one doesnt have any of that cache so actually its doing a lot more work and still got a reasonable time
15:35 Ulti and it is working :)
15:37 timotimo mrf: we have a piece in the doc about that
15:37 mrf :D
15:37 timotimo mrf: however, no need to write unicode characters
15:38 Ulti https://gist.github.com/MattOates/c5879a07b1ef2c013097
15:38 timotimo everything we have in the main language can be done with "texas" as well
15:39 hoelzro mrf: if you use Vim, you can use digraphs
15:39 mrf timotimo: I thought there was one operator that didn't have an ascii equiv?
15:39 hoelzro but, as timotimo said, Perl 6 can be written entirely with ASCII characters
15:39 laouji joined #perl6
15:39 timotimo mrf: yeah, but you're not going to need that ever
15:39 timotimo mrf: except very rarely in internals-hacking
15:39 timotimo and even then you can spell it differently
15:42 mrf I think I will avoid it
15:45 oskie left #perl6
15:52 Ulti timotimo wonder timotimo the grep without racing is 0.4 seconds rather than 1.4 :(
15:54 Ven joined #perl6
15:55 Ven .oO( we should have lazy numbers, so that `.elems == 0` could only check the first elem )
15:55 lizmat Ven: that is what I think Seq.Bool should do
15:55 lizmat but that will break too much atm
15:55 lizmat cycling&
15:56 Ven lizmat: that'd be very good (well, probably wreck havoc at the type-level though), but lazy ints are a tad more crazy :D
15:59 timotimo Ulti: "the" grep? but there's two greps ... so perhaps the one that does less work just has too much overhead?
16:00 timotimo i'm not 100% sure how the things work, but it's likely that a race that gets set up the very same way over and over again (i.e. the inner loop) doesn't re-use things it might be able to if it were hand-tuned?
16:00 Ulti timotimo: yeah
16:00 Ulti I think if I removed the inner loop it might work out better
16:00 Ulti I'll give it a go
16:04 Ulti timotimo the parallel one with just the outer race ends up being about the same time
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16:06 timotimo oh?
16:06 timotimo the same time as ... what exactly?
16:06 Ulti as the greps without the race
16:06 Ulti :(
16:07 timotimo oh, damn
16:07 timotimo but it uses more cpu time?
16:08 timotimo as in: it maxes out more than one?
16:08 Ulti oh yeah
16:08 Ulti its basically 4 times as bad since its using that much CPU for the same task
16:08 timotimo argh, wtf?
16:09 timotimo could it not be splitting up the tasks at all?
16:09 Ulti well its got 4 threads and ends up being a little slower
16:09 Ulti for the same load
16:09 timotimo could it be giving all the work to all 4 threads?
16:09 Ulti might be
16:09 Ulti *shrug*
16:09 Ulti that would be it not working as specced though right
16:10 timotimo right
16:10 timotimo but what do i know :)
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16:10 Ulti I suspect it might be something like batch says how much to consume before splitting out a thread? so it ends up just making threads and the first finishes before the second starts
16:11 Ulti yeah going to 8 from 4 threads slowed it down
16:12 timotimo i haven't looked at what the arguments to race do; i only remember that you can leave the arguments out and it'll try to come up with something sensible
16:14 Ulti https://gist.github.com/MattOates/c5879a07b1ef2c013097 some updated numbers
16:17 timotimo oh btw
16:17 timotimo loop labels *are* implemented in rakudo nowadays
16:18 Ulti sure thats just copy pasta from Tim King's code http://sd.jtimothyking.com/2013/09/17/how-fast-or-slow-is-perl-6/
16:18 Ulti though 11 seconds was his best time before :D
16:18 Ulti Rakudo demolishes that time
16:18 Ulti 0.094 nowadays >:D
16:18 sjn p6: sub test-me(:$str!) { say "$str"; }; test-me("gives error");
16:18 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤  in sub test-me at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
16:18 Ven joined #perl6
16:19 Ulti m: say 11 / 0.094
16:19 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«117.021277␤»
16:19 sjn can someone please explain that error message for me?
16:19 _itz well I built a star 2015.09 and I get some fails with ./rakudo/t/spec/S32-num/power.t
16:19 sjn p6: sub test-me(:$str!) { say "$str"; }; test-me(bar => "gives error");
16:19 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«Required named parameter 'str' not passed␤  in sub test-me at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
16:19 timotimo sjn: you've declared $str as a named argument
16:19 PerlJam sjn: you gave it a positional rather than the required named
16:20 Ulti oh wait for those algos it was 2.2 seconds
16:20 Ulti m: say 2.2 / 0.094
16:20 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«23.404255␤»
16:20 Ulti still respectable
16:20 timotimo 23x faster?
16:20 Ulti yup
16:20 Ulti for identical code
16:20 sjn wouldn't it be better if the error said "got 1 positional argument, but expected a pair" or something?
16:20 Ulti with all those loops and logic :D
16:20 PerlJam sjn: aye, the error message was LTA
16:21 moritz s/pair/named argument/
16:21 Ulti that was September 2013!!!
16:21 Ulti nice
16:21 Ulti naw just missed the 17th to do a two years to the day blog reply
16:21 Ulti probably still worth it
16:22 _itz m: say 1i**NaN
16:22 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«NaN+NaN\i␤»
16:23 dalek perl6-roast-data: c1c5d89 | coke++ | / (9 files):
16:23 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
16:23 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/c1c5d89af0
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16:30 timotimo nan.... nani??!!?!
16:31 [Coke] I am surprised we need a complex NaN as opposed to just NaN.
16:32 timotimo m: say sqrt(NaN + NaN\i)
16:32 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«NaN+NaN\i␤»
16:32 timotimo m: say sqrt(NaN)
16:32 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
16:32 timotimo m: say sqrt(-NaN)
16:32 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
16:32 * timotimo shrugs
16:32 timotimo not like i understand NaN well at all :)
16:32 _itz its an Indian bread I thought
16:36 ilmari mm, inf nan
16:39 zostay m: sqrt(i**2)
16:39 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "sqrt(i**2)" in expression "sqrt(i**2)" in sink context (line 1)␤»
16:39 zostay m: say sqrt(i**2)
16:39 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«6.12323399573677e-17+1i␤»
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16:51 psch hi #perl6 o/
16:51 psch anyone with some decent moar/gdb fu who can give me the REPRData for the IntStr STable?
16:52 psch i've tried to figure out a way to BP in P6opaque.c in the right spot, but my C is insufficient :s
16:52 psch for reference, this is what we get on the jvm: https://gist.github.com/peschwa/ea5b01f814d4dc46cee1
16:53 psch and unbox{Int,Str}Slot *probably* should have useful values, but...
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17:09 garu_ Ven, mst: thanks, I'll fix it right away
17:10 _itz http://pl6anet.org/drop/rakudo-star-2015.09-RC0.tar.gz
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17:16 uvtc Not sure I commented on it in the right place (https://github.com/rakudo/star/pull/51), but it seems to me that it may be time to remove the "useful and usable" from the Star release announcements.  IMO, it makes it sound like there's a preconceived notion that it's not useful and usable.
17:16 [Coke] +1
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17:30 _itz tony-o: why did you close the issue and PR on perl6-data-dump.  The test fails and the PR was the fix
17:41 timotimo Ulti: will you use loop labels in your code now?
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17:46 tadzik hmm, TimToady often says that Perl 6 is the language for the next 25 (?) years, does anyone remember the number in that sentence, or a source where it can be read? :)
17:47 PerlJam 100 years
17:48 tadzik thanks :)
17:49 PerlJam also, I'm pretty sure the number came from Paul Graham ... http://www.paulgraham.com/hundred.html
17:52 sergot m: say 42.WHICH.say
17:52 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«Int|42␤True␤»
17:52 sergot m: say 42.WHAT.say
17:52 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«(Int)␤True␤»
17:52 sergot i forgot again...
17:53 tadzik m: Life, the Universe, and Everything.WHY.say
17:53 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/6ZPmlY0sWH␤Undeclared names:␤    Everything used at line 1␤    Life used at line 1␤    Universe used at line 1. Did you mean 'Universal'?␤Undeclared routines:␤    and used at line 1. Did you mean 'r…»
17:53 tadzik m: "Life, the Universe, and Everything".WHY.say
17:53 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«42␤»
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17:59 dalek roast: 63ad4c4 | usev6++ | S03-metaops/eager-hyper.t:
17:59 dalek roast: Add reference to existing RT #124517
17:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/63ad4c454b
17:59 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=124517
18:00 _itz tony-o: thanks!
18:01 vendethiel joined #perl6
18:08 tony-o _itz: are you stmuk?
18:09 _itz yes!
18:13 rurban joined #perl6
18:16 timotimo the saint M of the UK
18:21 moritz http://hack.p6c.org/~moritz/rakudo-star-2015.03-rc0.tar.gz # please test!
18:21 moritz _itz++ for the announcement PR
18:21 _itz 03?
18:22 moritz erm
18:22 moritz http://hack.p6c.org/~moritz/rakudo-star-2015.09-rc0.tar.gz # better link. Please test!
18:22 _itz mv++
18:23 moritz nah, I just had the old RC tarball around, and gave the wrong link here
18:24 yqt joined #perl6
18:24 * _itz recovers his unoffical one from the internet
18:25 _itz when I tried it .. power.t failed (which I believe may not be fixed in current nom)
18:25 _itz m: say 1i**NaN
18:26 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«NaN+NaN\i␤»
18:26 _itz etc
18:26 tony-o _itz: no worries, thank you for mentioning that.  i thought i'd merged before i closed
18:27 Gothmog_ joined #perl6
18:28 _itz ^ s/recovers/removes
18:29 bartolin I consider going through roast and replacing all (or as many as possible) occurences of eval-dies-ok/dies-ok with throws-like.
18:29 bartolin For code which fails with X::AdHoc, I wonder if it would be better to test for X::AdHoc or Exception. There was a short discussion about that yesterday: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-09-21#i_11253577
18:29 bartolin Since jnthn++ suggested to audit the remaining non-typed exceptions before christmas, I guess it would be better
18:29 bartolin to test for X::AdHoc for now. That way we see failures in roast when upgrading to typed exceptions and can adjust the tests accordingly.
18:30 bartolin Do you have any thoughts on that?
18:31 bartolin Optionally, all X::AdHoc could be changed (back) to Exception shortly before releasing 6.christmas (to become more stable wrt throws-like)
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18:38 dalek roast: 9e8db55 | coke++ | S03-metaops/zip.t:
18:38 dalek roast: less forceful fudge
18:38 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9e8db55a7f
18:38 vendethiel joined #perl6
18:40 [Coke] RT #122230 is noted as "not worth thinking about until after the GLR"
18:40 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=122230
18:41 TimToady m: constant @stuff = <A B C>; enum Stuff (@stuff); say C
18:41 camelia rakudo-moar 4601fc: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/q3EaXm5Uor␤Undeclared name:␤    C used at line 1␤␤»
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19:24 dalek roast: 7bad7f6 | usev6++ | S06- (6 files):
19:24 dalek roast: Replace some eval-dies-ok in S06-* with throws-like
19:24 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7bad7f674d
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19:45 [Coke] who is running https://www.facebook.com/Perl-6-122481354428937/timeline/ ?
19:46 rurban joined #perl6
19:46 timotimo oh lord, that unicorn-butterfly-kitten picture is amazing
19:48 brrt joined #perl6
19:48 sergot wow, amazing
19:49 lizmat [Coke]: why do you want to know ?
19:51 [Coke] I want to make sure it's someone in the community. Having social media that is branded like our web site that isn't run by us is a bad thing.
19:53 woolfy [Coke] re https://www.facebook.com/Perl-6-122481354428937/timeline/   ->  I don't know who is "boss" of that page.  It's not the Perl 6 page on Facebook where DrForr and I and itz and others are a member of.  That one is https://www.facebook.com/groups/1595443877388632/
19:55 woolfy [Coke] I just send the admin of that other page a message.  I hope (s)he will react.
19:55 dalek rakudo/nom: 53fba2c | lizmat++ | src/core/Block.pm:
19:55 dalek rakudo/nom: Add utility function "has-phasers"
19:55 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:55 dalek rakudo/nom: So we can fallback more easily if there's funny stuff going on
19:55 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/53fba2c17f
19:56 [Coke] I pinged me.
19:56 [Coke] ... them. It's not me. :)
19:56 [Coke] woolfy++ happy to defer to you. :)
20:00 brrt any news on the JITbug front
20:02 dalek rakudo/nom: a66e930 | lizmat++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
20:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Make grep about 2.5x faster
20:02 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:02 dalek rakudo/nom: If you don't have any phasers inside the block if you give a block
20:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a66e93084b
20:02 lizmat brrt: none, afaik
20:02 brrt hmm :-(
20:03 brrt puzzling still
20:03 lizmat jnthn did a presentation this morning and then said he'd be afk for probably the rest of the day
20:03 dalek roast: d635f3a | usev6++ | S (4 files):
20:03 dalek roast: Replace some eval-dies-ok in S02-types/* and S10* with throws-like
20:03 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d635f3a696
20:03 tadzik lizmat++ :)
20:03 lizmat tadzik: thank you
20:03 brrt on the other hand, i maintain that jit+inline is a pretty small search space
20:03 lizmat there is however 1 gotcha in my patch
20:04 lizmat somehow, if you specify grep: { /a/
20:04 lizmat somehow, if you specify grep: { /a/  }
20:04 tadzik I'm happy for all things "Make $thing faster"
20:04 patrickz tadzik: \o/
20:04 lizmat you get an error (cannot find Any.natch)
20:04 tadzik patrickz!
20:04 lizmat *match
20:04 lizmat if you specify grep { m/a/ }   it's ok
20:05 lizmat and you probably *should* just say: grep: /a/   anyway (there is an optimised candidate that takes a Regex
20:05 lizmat there are two advent tests that fail now
20:05 lizmat that can be easily worked around by specifying m/a/ rather than /a/
20:06 patrickz tadzik: We have working Windows shims now.
20:06 tadzik patrickz: oh, awesome!
20:06 lizmat but I would appreciate any other eyes on that now (before either fixing the tests or fiixing the code)
20:07 [Coke] woolfy: they said they are "magical coding robot"
20:07 [Coke] which makes me want to report them to facebook.
20:07 tadzik patrickz: that's all in PR?
20:08 [Coke] I suspect my initial reaction is over the top, so will hold off on that.
20:08 tadzik I mean, the windows shims are all working there, or is there something non-requested yet?
20:10 tadzik or I could just read what you wrote..
20:10 woolfy [Coke]: I got a response: "Aloha. I created this page long time ago. Just for curiosity reasons."
20:11 patrickz tadzik: AFAIK rakudobrew is currently completely broken on Windows.
20:11 patrickz Well, the shims don't work.
20:11 tadzik right
20:11 patrickz This i fixed. :-)
20:12 woolfy [Coke] Ehrm, "magical coding robot"?  That sounds ominous.
20:14 rzxZNkFex joined #perl6
20:14 colomon woolfy++
20:15 woolfy colomon: welcome on https://www.facebook.com/groups/1595443877388632/  (I just accepted your request)
20:15 colomon woolfy: I know, that’s why I ++’d you.  :)
20:15 colomon that was super-fast
20:16 woolfy Pure luck on my part.
20:16 brrt ok, i'm going to think about it a bit more and hopefully we'll figure something out tomorrow
20:17 patrickz tadzik: I did one more change (only README.md stuff).
20:18 dalek rakudo/nom: 4bdad00 | lizmat++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
20:18 dalek rakudo/nom: Oops, WhateverCode's are not blocks
20:18 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4bdad00b4f
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20:21 hahainternet was there any work on 'native arrays'? i know nothing about them, just that allocating a big (say few million entry) array seems to use an awful lot of ram
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20:23 moritz hahainternet: yes
20:24 moritz hahainternet: but normal arrays aren't native arrays
20:24 hahainternet moritz: where should i be reading?
20:25 tadzik patrickz: merged, thanks!
20:25 patrickz \o/
20:25 dalek roast: 0da16cc | usev6++ | S12- (4 files):
20:25 dalek roast: Replace some eval-dies-ok in S12-* with throws-like
20:25 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0da16ccce7
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20:28 moritz hahainternet: http://design.perl6.org/S09.html (specifically about compact and typed arrays)
20:28 hahainternet moritz: willdo
20:29 rzxZNkFex every time I hit a p6 synopsis or blog entry I think "nice, qq// everywhere"
20:29 rzxZNkFex <> was a good design decision
20:39 gensym joined #perl6
20:40 avuserow hi all. just wanted to drop in and say that I successfully used Perl6 to orchestrate some work tasks. It didn't result in much code, but it was a fun experience. much better than doing it by hand :)
20:45 hahainternet moritz: what it was that i was noticing was that 'xx' is slow when it comes to big typed arrays etc
20:45 hahainternet i'm sure optimisation will touch that eventually, i was only playing anyhow
20:47 [Coke] avuserow: Danke.
20:48 lizmat avuserow: I have a patch speed up xx significantly, but alas seems to have some spectest fallout
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20:58 dalek rakudo/nom: 198f84f | lizmat++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
20:58 dalek rakudo/nom: Make .grep 0 to 2x faster still
20:58 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:58 dalek rakudo/nom: When e.g. assigning to an array, with all the values being passed through,
20:58 dalek rakudo/nom: expect a 2x increase of speed.  If no vaules are being passed through, this
20:58 dalek rakudo/nom: change is neutral.  YMMV
20:58 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/198f84f68c
21:00 avuserow lizmat: I suspect that was meant to ping hahainternet :)
21:00 hahainternet indeed, hola
21:01 patrickz tadzik: What do you think about https://github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew/issues/53 ? Somehow related: What do we want the word "version" to mean in rakudobrew? Only rakudo, rakudo+nqp+backend? Are installed modules compatible across backends? Do we want separate lib handling as perlbrew does?
21:07 lizmat avuserow: oops, indeed...
21:11 Ulti timotimo just for you changed the prime stuff to labelled next :P
21:12 timotimo Ulti: does it make any difference?
21:12 Ulti tiny bit yeah
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21:13 Ulti nothing thats not really outside of the standard deviation of the previous version
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21:24 Ulti timotimo re: parallel is slower its simply to do with overheads if I up the number of primes to find suddenly parallel looks great
21:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 503c0fd | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
21:38 dalek rakudo/nom: fix compile-time evaluation of enum lists
21:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/503c0fdb81
21:44 gensym joined #perl6
21:50 timotimo oh, neat -^
21:55 Ulti dont suppose anyone can see the bug in this https://gist.github.com/MattOates/c5879a07b1ef2c013097 bails at line 58 with 'Failed to unbox object to integer' havent done much apart from wrap the thing in a MAIN and pass the max prime to find around
21:59 dalek roast: de3a3c5 | TimToady++ | S12-enums/misc.t:
21:59 dalek roast: test enums from compile-time list
21:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/de3a3c50c4
22:05 dalek specs/zengargoyle-patch-1: fc0a29e | zengargoyle++ | S07-lists.pod:
22:05 dalek specs/zengargoyle-patch-1: missing \n in say output
22:05 dalek specs/zengargoyle-patch-1:
22:05 dalek specs/zengargoyle-patch-1: proofreading yay!
22:05 dalek specs/zengargoyle-patch-1: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/fc0a29ea15
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22:18 dalek specs: fc0a29e | zengargoyle++ | S07-lists.pod:
22:18 dalek specs: missing \n in say output
22:18 dalek specs:
22:18 dalek specs: proofreading yay!
22:18 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/fc0a29ea15
22:18 dalek specs: 8abcbe6 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | S07-lists.pod:
22:18 dalek specs: Merge pull request #99 from perl6/zengargoyle-patch-1
22:18 dalek specs:
22:18 dalek specs: missing \n in say output
22:18 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/8abcbe6763
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22:21 dalek rakudo/nom: 631ac40 | lizmat++ | src/core/Any.pm:
22:21 dalek rakudo/nom: dd without parameters tells in which sub it is
22:21 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/631ac4041d
22:21 lizmat dd
22:21 lizmat m: dd
22:21 camelia rakudo-moar 198f84: ( no output )
22:22 lizmat so we can just add a "dd" to code while debugging code to see where it goes
22:23 lizmat especially handy when verifying which Iterator candidate is used while processing a Seq
22:23 timotimo Ulti: that might come from our new IntStr (and friends) support?
22:23 timotimo but i thought they unbox as ints just fine ...
22:23 * lizmat goes to bed dreaming of Seqs  :-)
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23:13 ShimmerFairy timotimo: it appears to be an issue in Range.iterator, fwiw (at least, that's where the top line of an --ll-exception stacktrace points)
23:13 ShimmerFairy specifically, a 'new' constructor for an anonymous class with native int attributes.
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