Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-11-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 dalek roast: 743b620 | TimToady++ | S32-array/shift.t:
00:00 dalek roast: test that shift on sparse array produces Nil
00:00 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/743b620115
00:01 TimToady BenGoldberg: you're right
00:04 BenGoldberg Add another test, so that the second shift on that array produces the '2'
00:05 BenGoldberg m: my @a = 1, 2; @a[0]:delete; say so @a.shift; say so @a.shift;
00:05 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤False␤»
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00:05 BenGoldberg ^ Should be False True
00:11 dalek rakudo/nom: c016df5 | TimToady++ | src/core/Array.pm:
00:11 dalek rakudo/nom: actually shift the sparse array
00:11 dalek rakudo/nom:
00:11 dalek rakudo/nom: BenGoldberg++ for the eyeballs.
00:11 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c016df548c
00:11 dalek roast: 7a2ad38 | TimToady++ | S32-array/shift.t:
00:11 dalek roast: test we actually shifted sparse array
00:11 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7a2ad38067
00:13 BenGoldberg m: say SEQ( say 'ah?'; 42 );
00:13 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«ah?␤42␤»
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00:26 TimToady basically, C-comma semantics
00:27 TimToady or a non-block block
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00:29 b2gills m: say race map -*, ^100
00:29 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«HyperSeq.new␤»
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00:34 TimToady m: say eager race map -*, ^100
00:34 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«()␤»
00:34 TimToady m: say first * %% 7, race map -*, ^100
00:34 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Nil␤»
00:34 TimToady m: .say for race map -*, ^100
00:34 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0␤-1␤-2␤-3␤-4␤-5␤-6␤-7␤-64␤-8␤-9␤-65␤-6​6␤-10␤-67␤-11␤-68␤-12␤-13␤-69␤-14␤-70␤-15␤-71␤​-16␤-17␤-72␤-18␤-19␤-73␤-20␤-21␤-74␤-22␤-75␤-2​3␤-76␤-24␤-25␤-77␤-26␤-78␤-27␤-79␤-28␤-80…»
00:35 TimToady seems some things aren't hooked up to HyperSeq quite right, just yet
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00:50 BenGoldberg If I'm creating an infinite lazy Iterator, should sink-all throw an exception?
00:51 TimToady what if you want to call it just for the side effects?
00:52 BenGoldberg In this case, it's just generating primes, why would there be side effects?
00:52 BenGoldberg Well, unless you count the debugging output as a side effect.
00:52 TimToady there's no way to know your intent
00:53 TimToady m: for 1..* { .say }
00:53 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(timeout)1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤11␤12​␤13␤14␤15␤16␤17␤18␤19␤20␤21␤22␤23␤24␤25␤26​␤27␤28␤29␤30␤31␤32␤33␤34␤35␤36␤37␤38␤39␤40​␤41␤42␤43␤44␤45␤46␤47␤48␤49␤50␤51␤52␤53…»
00:53 TimToady should that produce an exception?
00:53 diakopter m: .say for 1..*
00:54 BenGoldberg m: (1..*).iterator.say
00:54 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(timeout)1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤11␤12​␤13␤14␤15␤16␤17␤18␤19␤20␤21␤22␤23␤24␤25␤26​␤27␤28␤29␤30␤31␤32␤33␤34␤35␤36␤37␤38␤39␤40​␤41␤42␤43␤44␤45␤46␤47␤48␤49␤50␤51␤52␤53…»
00:54 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«<anon|304326384>.new␤»
00:54 BenGoldberg m: (1..*).iterator.sink-all; say 'ok';
00:54 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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01:00 BenGoldberg p6: https://gist.github.com/BenGo​ldberg1/467dff5994d16fb4af23
01:00 camelia rakudo-moar: OUTPUT«ok 1␤(2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 53 59 61 71 73 79 83 89 101 103 109 113 131 139 149 151)␤ok 2␤»
01:00 diakopter .tell jnthn shaved 8% off CORE compilation by writing the idx after looking it up in interp.c http://i.imgur.com/WX35mFe.png
01:00 yoleaux diakopter: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
01:00 BenGoldberg j: https://gist.github.com/BenGo​ldberg1/467dff5994d16fb4af23
01:00 camelia rakudo-jvm c016df: OUTPUT«ok 1␤(2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 59 71 77 83 89 101 107 113 119 143 149 161 167 191 203)␤ok 2␤»
01:00 BenGoldberg That's not good.
01:02 * BenGoldberg slaps jakudo.
01:06 BenGoldberg The output from moar is correct, and I don't know wtf is wrong with r-j, cause 53 and 61 are prime, and 77 definitely isn't.
01:07 zengargoyle TIL, camelia runs urls...
01:08 BenGoldberg Only github gists.
01:08 zengargoyle neat enough.
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02:18 Ben_Goldberg m: https://gist.github.com/BenGo​ldberg1/7e365fc0a9fe49eed7be
02:18 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Start␤Produced 1426 primes: 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97 101 103 107 109 113 127 131 137 139 149 151 157 163 167 173 179 181 191 193 197 199 211 223 227 229 233 239 241 251 257 263 269 271 277 281 283 293 307 311 313 3…»
02:18 Ben_Goldberg j: https://gist.github.com/BenGo​ldberg1/7e365fc0a9fe49eed7be
02:18 camelia rakudo-jvm c016df: OUTPUT«Start␤Produced 67 primes: 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97 101 103 107 109 113 127 131 137 139 149 151 157 163 167 173 179 181 191 193 197 199 211 223 227 229 233 239 241 251 257 263 269 271 277 281 283 293 307 311 31…»
02:20 flussence j: say ^200 .grep(*.is-prime) # I wonder if it at least gets *this* right?
02:20 camelia rakudo-jvm c016df: OUTPUT«(2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97 101 103 107 109 113 127 131 137 139 149 151 157 163 167 173 179 181 191 193 197 199)␤»
02:21 Ben_Goldberg On the one hand, I'm glad that both moar and rakudo run this code the same.  On the other hand, I'm disappointed about how slow jakudo runs.
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02:46 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:49 Zoffix m: say ^1000 .grep(.is-prime)
02:49 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'is-prime' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/q1aLJ7nbk6:1␤␤»
02:49 Zoffix m: say ^1000 .grep(*.is-prime)
02:49 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97 101 103 107 109 113 127 131 137 139 149 151 157 163 167 173 179 181 191 193 197 199 211 223 227 229 233 239 241 251 257 263 269 271 277 281 283 293 307 311 313 317 331 337 347 349 353 359 36…»
02:50 * Zoffix picks up the blown mind
02:50 Zoffix Tweet-worthy :P
02:52 Zoffix m: say ^1000000000000 .grep(*.is-prime)
02:52 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 73 79 83 89 97 101 103 107 109 113 127 131 137 139 149 151 157 163 167 173 179 181 191 193 197 199 211 223 227 229 233 239 241 251 257 263 269 271 277 281 283 293 307 311 313 317 331 337 347 349 353 359 36…»
02:52 Zoffix 0.o
02:53 Zoffix wait wat:
02:53 Zoffix m: say ^1000000000000 .grep(*.is-prime).elems
02:53 Zoffix How does it know to return early above, but now it'll timeout?
02:53 TimToady .elems is never lazy
02:53 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(timeout)»
02:53 TimToady also, say stops at 100 elements
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02:53 Zoffix Ah
02:54 gfldex does it stop at 100 all the time or just for camelia?
02:56 TimToady all the time; use put if you want everything
02:56 TimToady say is about "gist"
02:56 gfldex this cheat should be documented
02:57 gfldex even if it's clearly documented, it will lead to bugs
02:59 Zoffix It's not really a "cheat". You're asking to print the .gist.
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03:00 Zoffix That the doc says about 4 times on one page :P http://doc.perl6.org/routine/say
03:00 Zoffix Sure, there'll be bugs, but due to people not reading docs and expecting `say` to be the `print` version of other languages.
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03:04 gfldex Zoffix: http://doc.perl6.org/type/List got a generic section for gist and does not mention what happens in https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo​/blob/nom/src/core/List.pm#L591
03:06 gfldex I'm trying to make Perl 6 foolproof by being the fool.
03:07 Zoffix gfldex, I opened an Issue: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/206
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03:21 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 6dd1ad2 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | web/lib/DbBuilder (4 files):
03:21 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: GitHub Source experimental plugin fully functional
03:21 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder:
03:21 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Missing docs / tests
03:21 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/6dd1ad2bee
03:22 Zoffix BTW, if we need to support more than just GitHub repos, let me know :P
03:23 Zoffix At least on modules.perl6.org it'll soon be very trivial to add new sources :)
03:23 Zoffix (not sure about how easy it is with panda tho)
03:25 dalek doc: 455f420 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod:
03:25 dalek doc: List::gist does truncate, others may do so as well.
03:25 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/455f420259
03:25 dalek doc: 38fc995 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod:
03:25 dalek doc: Mention .put for machine readable output.
03:25 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/38fc9951be
03:25 dalek doc: 30db8ef | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod:
03:25 dalek doc: Merge pull request #207 from gfldex/master
03:25 dalek doc:
03:25 dalek doc: .gist may truncate .put may be better for machine readable output
03:25 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/30db8efa29
03:25 dalek doc: 75af98e | (Brock Wilcox)++ | / (2 files):
03:25 dalek doc: Add initial styleguide
03:25 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/75af98ee4f
03:25 dalek doc: aaf6572 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (2 files):
03:25 dalek doc: Merge pull request #202 from perl6/initial-styleguide
03:25 dalek doc:
03:25 dalek doc: Add initial styleguide
03:25 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/aaf6572433
03:27 flussence iirc there's a few people using gitlab already, might want to add that
03:27 Zoffix k
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03:28 flussence (I've been thinking of moving over there myself for a while, I just need to start producing actual code to move :)
03:28 dalek doc: a188308 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod:
03:28 dalek doc: Reword/grammar
03:28 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a188308420
03:28 Zoffix I use it for private repos (they're free), but I often find the site is slow
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03:46 Zoffix_ weeeee
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03:56 herby Hello!
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03:57 gfldex m: say 'Hi herby!';
03:57 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Hi herby!␤»
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04:02 herby m: say 1+1
04:02 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«2␤»
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08:34 hankache morning
08:34 yoleaux 21 Nov 2015 20:05Z <TimToady> hankache: re - and ' in names, alpha is only required to the right; to the left can be numeric; think of it as a sequence of identifiers separated by - or '
08:37 hankache .tell TimToady re - and ' noted. thank you for going through the doc
08:37 yoleaux hankache: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
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09:00 FROGGS o/
09:00 yoleaux 21 Nov 2015 23:49Z <leont> FROGGS: I don't think so, though the interactive output uses \r a lot
09:01 FROGGS .tell leont I try to golf it down to a testcase
09:01 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to leont.
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09:28 dalek roast: 3e980b2 | usev6++ | S32-str/ (2 files):
09:28 dalek roast: Tests for index/rindex with negative start position
09:28 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3e980b2f11
09:33 nine m: say "hello"; say "world";
09:33 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«hello␤world␤»
09:39 dalek roast: bae740d | usev6++ | S32-str/ (2 files):
09:39 dalek roast: Fix RT number
09:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/bae740df3e
09:42 nine Really? Of all the monospace fonts on my system only GNU Unifont and Source Code Pro have the newline symbol. And neither is really pretty :/
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09:48 bartolin sorry, camelia
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09:57 [Tux] test             50000    21.222    21.109
09:57 [Tux] test-t           50000    17.995    17.882
09:57 [Tux] csv-parser       50000    28.856    28.742
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10:00 dalek roast: 46754e8 | usev6++ | S15-unicode-information/uniname.t:
10:00 dalek roast: Use existing RT number
10:00 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/46754e8f53
10:01 arnsholt nine: Inconsolata has it, I think
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10:04 [Tux] nine DejaVu Sans Mono, I just tested
10:04 [Tux] pretty is only in the eye of the beholder :) I personally think *all* serif fonts are ugly
10:07 nine [Tux]: Odd. I still get the replacement square with DejaVu Sans Mono. liberation2 AKA Google Croscore may support it though. I've just installed it but to test I'd have to restart konsole which I can't because smart as I am I didn't start my system backup in screen...
10:07 nine arnsholt: thanks, will try that, too
10:10 [Tux] http://tux.nl/Files/20151122111014.png
10:10 [Tux] shown in xterm-319
10:12 nine I guess there's something in the konsole -> bash -> ssh -> bash -> screen -> irssi chain screwing things up.
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10:45 moritz nine: the nice thing about debugging such a long chain is that you can bisect :-)
10:46 stmuk_ jnthn++ # blog post explanations
10:48 masak today's mini-challenge: write, in Perl 6, a *small* thing which can show Rubik's cube positions (maybe as an ASCII version of https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F​ile:Rubik%E2%80%99s_cube_colors.svg ), and allow arbitrary moves on the cube. i.e. something a cube solver could be built on top of.
10:48 masak g'day, #perl6
10:48 masak "small" is in "don't overdo it", not "small" as in "golfed" :P
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10:51 dr4ngd anyone here?
10:51 masak dr4ngd: hi
10:52 masak in other news, there's a depressing lack of web pages of the form "here's a sane programmatic model for the cube, and here's an algorithm (in Perl/Python/Ruby/whatever) that always solves the cube [assuming it's solvable]"
10:52 masak I'm *almost* tempted to fill that void :)
10:52 dr4ngd I was wondering if you guys knew anything about books that are going to be published on Perl 6
10:52 nine Next milestone finished: panda installs itself into a CompUnit::Repository::Installation
10:57 masak this is the closest to that ideal that I've found: http://fulmicoton.com/posts/rubix/
10:59 dr4ngd is that like some way of saying in heaven you know every possible rubix cube combination
10:59 dr4ngd in multiple dimensions
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11:02 dr4ngd anyway. I have a site I'm going to be working on in Perl. If you're expert level I'd love to share the project with you if anyones interested. It's a money maker...
11:04 * moritz is an expert level procrastinator
11:04 FROGGS nine: do you think it is a good time to join the CUR effort?
11:06 nine FROGGS: it is always a good time to join :)
11:06 moritz .oO( A Frogg is never late! )
11:07 nine FROGGS: and considering that it's only a couple of weeks till the big one, we should really merge this sooner rather than later
11:07 dr4ngd when is perl 6 coming out
11:07 masak dr4ngd: "God's number" -- the fancy name for "the maximum number of cube moves required to optimally solve any position" -- was shown to be 20 back in 2010.
11:08 masak dr4ngd: Perl 6 is coming out by Christmas.
11:08 moritz this Christmas.
11:08 masak dr4ngd: but it's an open source project, so you can download it today and play with it -- get ahead of the curve! :D
11:09 * masak .oO( o/ this Christmas, I'll give you Perl 6, but the very next day, you'll RT away o/ )
11:09 stmuk_ hahaha
11:10 FROGGS nine: okay, so expect questions :o)
11:10 dr4ngd masak: thanks
11:10 nine FROGGS: love them :)
11:11 dr4ngd anyone interested in something like this to work on https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dantecassara​/xudlr-one-stop-shop-for-online-gaming-and-social
11:12 dr4ngd I want to make a social site, for gamers, with their own private guild forums and pretty much everything MMO Players would want in one place...
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11:12 dr4ngd which is a rollout project to a more intensive project that you could get involved with too. done in Perl :)
11:15 moritz aren't there two dozen projects like this out there already?
11:15 diakopter gamifying gamer gamification
11:16 stmuk_ I think ovid has game plans .. it might be worth contacting him
11:16 masak more than plans
11:16 dr4ngd moritz: not even a little near the scope of what mines about
11:16 dr4ngd moritz: in content or design
11:17 masak can't fault you for lack of ambition :)
11:17 * lizmat waves from Echt
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11:20 nine o/ lizmat
11:20 lizmat nine o/
11:21 masak lizmat \o
11:22 stmuk_ you could make a social site about ethics in game journalism :>
11:23 lizmat masak o/
11:23 * lizmat is slightly jetlagged
11:25 dr4ngd why is Perl 6 considered a sister project
11:25 masak dr4ngd: because Perl 5 is still being actively developed, and with a large user base.
11:26 masak dr4ngd: also, Perl 6 is not an incremental update, it's a fresh start in many ways.
11:26 stmuk_ it's intended as a supplement to perl 5 rather than a replacement
11:26 masak each of Perl 5 and Perl 6 has its own strengths and specialties.
11:26 metasin I'd like to read more about those specialties and strengths
11:27 dr4ngd masak: So what happens when the larger user base gets to Perl 6 themselves? they'll both be Perl 6? lol
11:28 metasin dr4ngd: think of how many numbers are in between 0 and 1.
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11:28 masak metasin: lots of things. but perhaps most importantly: Perl 5 -- parsing text. Perl 6 -- parsing languages.
11:28 dr4ngd metasin: 0.1 is a number too.
11:28 masak metasin: that is, where Perl 5 has excellent regexes, Perl 6 has that plus excellent *grammars*.
11:29 metasin masak: yes, which is why I'm having a hard time letter perl6 go
11:30 dr4ngd I'm just concerned with learning Perl 6 without a book lol
11:30 metasin masak: I'd love to put together some kind of comprehensive article on particular semantic differences though
11:30 metasin masak: if you know of one... ^_^
11:31 metasin dr4ngd: don't worry. You have an irc channel right here.
11:31 masak dr4ngd: the "Perl 6" name/version number can be seen as an "unfortunate naming circumstance". maybe in retrospect a different name or something would've been more clear. but it's too late to re-brand it, because everyone knows it as "Perl 6".
11:31 masak metasin: there are a couple good resources. moritz++' 5-to-6 articles come to mind.
11:32 nine FROGGS: jnthn's design in case you don't have it at hand: https://gist.github.com/jnthn/47a42b2e86e7e552b2e2
11:32 masak metasin: there's also https://github.com/perl6/mu/blob/mas​ter/docs/Perl6/Perl5/Differences.pod -- but watch out for occasional outdated stuff.
11:32 dr4ngd masak: where do I start?
11:32 masak m: say "start here! :)"
11:32 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«start here! :)␤»
11:33 metasin masak: oddly, I've already gone through those. More inspiration I suppose. Time to write a lisp->perl6 tutorial or something
11:33 FROGGS nine: yes, I need to re-read it carefully
11:33 moritz also http://doc.perl6.org/language.html has links to various 5to6 documents
11:33 FROGGS and then I somehow need the current state
11:33 metasin inline::Perl5 is pretty nifty too
11:34 metasin ^-- (pretty strong about what's different in perl6)
11:35 dr4ngd so learn Perl 5 then move onto 6? cause I know JS, Python, C, some PHP. I decided to make my site in Perl and saw that Perl 6 was coming out, so I guess I was looking for a book to start from scratch
11:35 nine FROGGS: the design is mostly implemented. @*INC still has to be removed and $?REPO has to be added. CompUnit only contains the attributes that are needed for loading ($.dist, $.ver, ... are missing). And I'm very close to having a fully functional panda.
11:35 masak dr4ngd: there's also a nice big "Download" button at http://perl6.org/
11:35 metasin dr4ngd: no learn perl6
11:36 masak dr4ngd: it's possible to learn first-perl5-then-perl6, but it's also possible to start directly with Perl 6.
11:36 masak depends what your goals are, I guess.
11:36 masak Perl 5 is a very decent language too.
11:36 masak well worth learning.
11:36 metasin masak: is there a Higher Order Perl (6) ?
11:36 FROGGS nine: okay, so looking at panda might be a good start
11:36 FROGGS nine: I hope to have some time this evening
11:38 nine FROGGS: great! I'll try to be available
11:41 masak metasin: no, but that would be pretty awesome.
11:41 masak by the way, diakopter++ dug up http://kociemba.org/cube.htm with what appears to be an optimal C solver.
11:41 masak haven't tested it yet.
11:43 dr4ngd so I'm downloading Rakudo
11:44 dr4ngd what database do I use?
11:44 dr4ngd for SQL and shit
11:45 diakopter which one are you downloading
11:45 dr4ngd rakudo star 2015.09 jit
11:46 moritz dr4ngd: we have support for mysql, postgres and sqlite
11:47 dalek rakudo/curli: 681c18b | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/CompUnit/Repository/Installation.pm:
11:47 dalek rakudo/curli: Work towards a fix installation of bin wrapper scripts
11:47 dalek rakudo/curli:
11:47 dalek rakudo/curli: Store resources in the resources directory of the CompUnit::Repository::Installation.
11:47 dalek rakudo/curli: Store bin wrappers in the bin directory.
11:47 dr4ngd moritz: thank you
11:47 dalek rakudo/curli: Fix lookup of the wrapped bin file.
11:47 dalek rakudo/curli: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/681c18bd6f
11:47 nine FROGGS: pushed current state to rakudo/curli and panda/curli
11:47 nine I'm out now for the afternoon for the christmas market with my girlfriend :)
11:47 metasin masak: blah.. Guess I'll get started.. Hehe ;) also, awesome!!
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11:51 dalek star: 2dfa7ba | moritz++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod:
11:51 dalek star: Fix off-by-one error in the docs
11:51 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/2dfa7ba0aa
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11:54 dr4ngd can Perl 6 be used to make applications?
11:55 moritz dr4ngd: as opposed to... what?
11:55 dr4ngd moritz: not in a browser
11:55 metasin o_o
11:56 moritz dr4ngd: all programs are applications
11:56 dr4ngd moritz: ok I meant nonweb-based
11:56 moritz dr4ngd: do you mean something with a graphical user interface?
11:56 dr4ngd moritz: yep
11:56 moritz dr4ngd: ah. Yes, for example with https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/
11:58 dr4ngd moritz: thanks
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12:00 dr4ngd now something for discussion... what if there were to be an internet loaded operating system that overrides system control of your OS? :)
12:01 moritz dr4ngd: you mean like a configuration management system?
12:01 moritz see puppet, chef, ansible et. al.
12:01 dr4ngd moritz: I was thinking something like windows, that literally overrode your windows. as its own operating system.
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12:01 dr4ngd that was accessible from the internet. from a site with your own account and settings.
12:02 moritz dr4ngd: like a terminal server?
12:03 dr4ngd moritz: um, I was thinking something that had operable ways of taking control of system functions for a large base of computers. but literally ran as the operating system. full GUI.
12:03 dr4ngd sort of like a virtual machine, but no download necessary.
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12:04 moritz "taking control of system functions for a large base of computers" -- a botnet?
12:04 dr4ngd moritz: I don't mean a lot of computers. I just mean that I would code it specifically for certain computers. then you pick the computer you're using, and it overrides the OS.
12:05 dr4ngd that way, you could always have your computer wherever you go. a cloud situation
12:05 moritz dr4ngd: that's what a terminal server does
12:06 moritz dr4ngd: your session is on the server, and you just need a very thin client that forwards your input to the server, and the server's answer to your local monitor
12:06 stmuk_ like VNC
12:07 dr4ngd moritz: I honestly don't think we're talking about the same thing lol
12:07 moritz dr4ngd: we are, you just don't want to realize it
12:07 moritz stmuk_: or citrix receiver (*shudder*)
12:08 dr4ngd moritz: it's a complete OS with its own apps running from the internet streaming your apps with a full GUI
12:08 moritz dr4ngd: exactly
12:09 dr4ngd moritz: the only thing I can think of like that is Chrome OS
12:09 dr4ngd moritz: I think you're talking about how things work besides presented and accessed.
12:10 moritz dr4ngd: no; I'm just telling you that terminal servers + clients provide exactly the user experience you seem to be looking for
12:10 stmuk_ maybe he means virtualisation
12:11 dr4ngd moritz: I'm talking about something more presentable commercially.
12:11 dr4ngd also with an operating system that isn't created by me yet.
12:11 * moritz doesn't see what's comercially unpresentable about terminal servers
12:12 stmuk_ they are in wide use in the "enterprise"
12:12 moritz indeed, at $work we're making lots of money with them
12:15 dr4ngd so with a terminal server, I can login to the internet and it will run an operating system that overrides my operating system?
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12:16 dr4ngd from a web browser?
12:16 moritz dr4ngd: it makes your local operating system irrelevant
12:16 moritz and yes, citrix for example has a web client
12:16 dr4ngd moritz: that's fucking weird. why isn't it the status quo
12:17 moritz dr4ngd: flakey networks, trust, latency, economics
12:18 moritz dr4ngd: at $work, we have thin clients in all of our meeting rooms, which connect to a terminal server; it works very well
12:18 moritz but it's a local network, and the terminal server is run in-house, so we have full control
12:18 moritz I wouldn't want that for my local desktop
12:18 stmuk_ my experience of things like thin clients is that the server is under powered and overprovisioned
12:19 stmuk_ at least in the businesses I've been unfortunate to have worked in
12:19 dr4ngd moritz: oh. that's just weird to me. I can think of a lot of utilizations of that that would make a lot of money.
12:19 dalek star: a6b6afe | moritz++ | tools/star/Makefile:
12:19 dalek star: Use Rakudo 2015.11
12:19 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/a6b6afed23
12:19 dalek star: 5dd02c1 | moritz++ | modules/ (21 files):
12:19 dalek star: Update modules to current version
12:19 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/5dd02c1ba6
12:19 dalek star: 76e441f | moritz++ | tools/build/panda-state.p6:
12:19 dalek star: Fix HTTP communication in panda-state.p6
12:19 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/76e441fb40
12:19 moritz dr4ngd: there are lots of use cases where that already makes lots of money
12:20 moritz dr4ngd: but it's more in the enterprise space, where "give everybody a consistent experience" trumps usability, customizability for the user etc.
12:20 stmuk_ and "save money"
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12:21 moritz and that, yes
12:21 dr4ngd moritz: I have a project that would take that type of connect to a social outlet
12:22 moritz dr4ngd: then with all due respect, maybe you should do a thorough review of what's there first :-)
12:22 dr4ngd moritz: yeah that's what I'm doing right now
12:22 dr4ngd thanks :)!
12:22 moritz I've done my fair share of side projects that ended up with "oh, somebody else has done it much better than me, I'll just use theirs instead"
12:23 dr4ngd I have a whole project that but mines like, oh everyones done everything separately, I think I'll just put it all together
12:26 dr4ngd my work is sort of an overhaul with fresh new content.
12:27 dr4ngd the only problem is I'm the only one working on the project. :/
12:28 metasin oh, merry belated 4:20 to any of you at -8GMT
12:30 dr4ngd I wish I had some acid
12:30 metasin lol... do enough perl and you wont know the difference
12:30 * masak .oO( what is this, eternal September? )
12:31 metasin hehe
12:31 dr4ngd are you telling me perl fries my brain
12:31 masak metasin: believing Perl is unreadable is such a 90s notion.
12:32 metasin masak: Perl is totally readable, ad-infinitum
12:32 dr4ngd Perl looks intricate not unreadable.
12:32 metasin masak: I admit though, I feel attached to the 90s. Help me
12:33 dr4ngd yes let us all listen to third eye blind and the smashing pumpkins
12:33 dalek star: 60378f2 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
12:33 dalek star: Revert "introduce support for sdkroot and sysroot to support cross-builds"
12:33 dalek star:
12:33 dalek star: This reverts commit f0def6dc7b4f576668e689cfd44745e506a305ad.
12:33 dalek star: See https://github.com/rakudo/star/​pull/53#issuecomment-158754696 for the
12:33 dalek star: reason.
12:33 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/60378f2972
12:36 bpmedley joined #perl6
12:39 masak metasin: reading good Perl code from the last 15 years helps.
12:39 azawawi joined #perl6
12:39 azawawi hi
12:39 masak hi, azawawi
12:40 azawawi how do I access the original text (i.e. including newlines) of a Pod::Block::Named object?
12:40 metasin masak: I think you've missed the joke... >_> may I have some coffee?
12:41 sno moritz: to fix an issue with a .git checkout a guide how to prepare a test environment is sane ...
12:43 dalek perl6.org: 533502a | (Zoffix Znet)++ | TODO:
12:43 dalek perl6.org: Remove severely outdated TODO
12:43 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/533502a23f
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12:52 azawawi moritz: ping
12:54 dalek perl6.org: da6e383 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | README.md:
12:54 dalek perl6.org: Plack is also needed in deps for plackup
12:54 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/da6e3838db
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13:11 azawawi .tell moritz how do I access the original text (i.e. including newlines) of a Pod::Block::Named object?
13:11 yoleaux azawawi: I'll pass your message to moritz.
13:16 n0tjack joined #perl6
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13:25 moritz .tell azawawi if .perl doesn't show it, it's not there anymore
13:25 yoleaux 13:11Z <azawawi> moritz: how do I access the original text (i.e. including newlines) of a Pod::Block::Named object?
13:25 yoleaux moritz: I'll pass your message to azawawi.
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13:33 dalek perl6.org: cf32971 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | source/js.css:
13:33 dalek perl6.org: Remove useless file
13:33 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/cf32971886
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13:49 dalek perl6.org: 35d9068 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | source/ (4 files):
13:49 dalek perl6.org: Add "Recent Blog Posts" section on home page (Closes #42)
13:49 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/35d90684e5
13:50 Upasaka joined #perl6
13:51 * DrForr breathes deeply while writing a tutorial proposal for OSCON.
13:54 Actualeyes joined #perl6
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13:56 lucasb "brace yourselves, christmas is coming" <-- it would be fun if this sentence gets added to the channel topic :)
14:00 brrt joined #perl6
14:01 DrForr Not by my hand, unfortunately.
14:04 xpen joined #perl6
14:08 brrt i think moritz++ can
14:09 DrForr Is anyone interested in reviewing a biography I'm about to submit?
14:13 stmuk_ Zoffix++ # quicker than a JITed quick thing at perl6.org site features
14:13 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 55dd564 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | web/lib/DbBuilder/Dist/Source (2 files):
14:13 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Make base Dist Source class handle more of readme/tests setting instead of having subclasses do it
14:13 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/55dd564d3d
14:14 boegel joined #perl6
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14:18 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 42fcd2d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | web/lib/DbBuilder/Dist/Source/GitHub.pm:
14:18 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Be paranoid about data source
14:18 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder:
14:18 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: If an attacker somehow sneaks arbitrary data into a GitHub commit SHA, they could exploit us. Prevent that.
14:18 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/42fcd2d61a
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14:22 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 78a9552 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | web/lib/DbBuilder/Dist/Source/GitHub.pm:
14:22 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Use saner code
14:22 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/78a9552316
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14:24 * zengargoyle thinks that POD handling of unknown named blocks is brokenish.  they shouldn't be processed like POD (all squished up), but left completely intact.
14:24 zengargoyle otherwise you'll never actually be able to use their contents via some other process.
14:24 Skarsnik joined #perl6
14:26 zengargoyle i.e. « =begin Pic␤.....␤=end Pic » will be useless to a Pic processor if the contents have been munged.
14:28 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 3dd2058 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | web/lib/DbBuilder/Dist/Source/GitHub.pm:
14:28 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Do not die if we don't understand date_updated format
14:28 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/3dd205873f
14:29 diana_olhovik_ joined #perl6
14:29 dalek rakudo-star-daily: c233516 | coke++ | log/ (3 files):
14:29 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
14:29 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/c2335167db
14:29 dalek perl6-roast-data: 95c634b | coke++ | / (9 files):
14:29 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
14:29 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/95c634bac4
14:30 zengargoyle sorta think the whole of POD stuff should be kept intact and not munged until it hits a PodToXXX parser (if that's possible)
14:30 tokuhiro_ joined #perl6
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14:44 zengargoyle oh, and good * #perl 6
14:48 BenGoldberg Good MornAfternoonEvening.
14:50 s_kilk joined #perl6
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14:55 hankache joined #perl6
14:57 hankache hello everyone
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15:06 dalek rakudo/curli: f967ac2 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/CompUnit/Repository/Installation.pm:
15:06 dalek rakudo/curli: Fixup: path to resource files has to contain 'resouces/'
15:06 dalek rakudo/curli:
15:06 dalek rakudo/curli: This makes the generated panda wrapper work now!
15:06 dalek rakudo/curli: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f967ac2e5b
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15:07 jdv79 m: role R[::T = Str] { has T $.r}; R.new.r.say
15:07 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'say' not found for invocant of class 'T'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/xp6lnrXp_I:1␤␤»
15:08 jdv79 shouldn't that work as if T was Str and not error like that?
15:10 Skarsnik you can new on a role? that's weird x)
15:10 jdv79 Punning is the term
15:10 Skarsnik and hello there
15:11 BenGoldberg It's only doable for roles which don't have any unimpelmented required methods.
15:11 BenGoldberg m: role R { method cant-pun-me { ... } }; say R.new;
15:11 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'cant-pun-me' must be implemented by R because it is required by a role␤  in any compose_method_table at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp:2680␤  in any apply at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp:2690␤  in any compose at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp:2826␤  in any make_…»
15:11 jdv79 i get the same error with just normal application as well
15:12 jdv79 well, composition i guess its called nowadays
15:12 BenGoldberg m: role R[::T] { has T $.r}; R[Str].new.r.say
15:12 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'say' not found for invocant of class 'T'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ZioBB4oCHI:1␤␤»
15:12 BenGoldberg m: role R[::T] { has T $.r}; say R[Str].new.r
15:12 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'gist' not found for invocant of class 'T'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/pQ2Rh5b3WS:1␤␤»
15:13 BenGoldberg m: role R[::T] { has T $.r}; say R[Str].new.r.WHAT
15:13 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'gist' not found for invocant of class 'T'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Rdd5V1UeG0:1␤␤»
15:13 jdv79 m: role R[::T = Str] { has T $.r}; class A does R {}; A.new.r.say
15:13 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'say' not found for invocant of class 'T'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/EP4sdRY8Mj:1␤␤»
15:13 BenGoldberg m: role R[::T] { has T $.r}; my $r = R[Str].new; say 'ok';
15:13 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«ok␤»
15:13 BenGoldberg m: role R[::T] { has T $.r}; my $r = R[Str].new; my $rr = $r.r; say 'ok'
15:13 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«ok␤»
15:13 BenGoldberg m: role R[::T] { has T $.r}; my $r = R[Str].new; my $rr = $r.r; say $rr
15:13 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'gist' not found for invocant of class 'T'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/wY6QugAGRZ:1␤␤»
15:14 jdv79 it seems to be because type/class T is not real
15:14 jdv79 which means the bind is failing or something?
15:16 nine .tell FROGGS with my last rakudo patch, a panda installed into a Repository::Installation now works with the wrapper generated by rakudo and can install many modules :) The default repo list contains only Repository::Installation (perl6 -e 'say $*REPO.repo-chain')
15:16 yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
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15:19 BenGoldberg m: role R[::T] { method diditbind { T.WHAT } }; my $r = R[Str].new; say $r; say $r.diditbind;
15:19 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«R[Str].new␤(Str)␤»
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15:19 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: eda8def | (Zoffix Znet)++ | web/ (3 files):
15:19 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Tests for GitHub dist Source [Repo without a README, tests, or logotype]
15:19 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/eda8defcc4
15:21 moritz rakudo star is now in shape that it only needs an announcement and some testing to be releasable
15:21 jdv79 BenGoldberg: huh.
15:22 moritz nine++ # precomp work
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15:32 El_Che tadzik: nothing but love for panda, but wouldn't the name confuse people coming from python? https://en.wikipedia.org/w​iki/Pandas_%28software%29
15:34 tadzik El_Che: I've never heard of this before
15:34 Begi11115 PandaS =! panda
15:34 moritz El_Che: people are goot at putting stuff into context
15:36 jdv79 m: role R[::T = Str] { has T $.r =T}; class A does R; A.new.r.say
15:36 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/lx74dRiHaz␤Too late for unit-scoped class definition;␤Please use the block form.␤at /tmp/lx74dRiHaz:1␤------> 3 = Str] { has T $.r =T}; class A does R;7⏏5 A.new.r.say␤»
15:36 jdv79 m: role R[::T = Str] { has T $.r =T}; R.new.r.say
15:36 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
15:36 El_Che tadzik: pandas is pretty big in the scientific community. Just so you know in case someone asks :)
15:36 jdv79 why is it necessary to set the default to the type obj in that case but not in general?
15:36 tadzik El_Che: alright, noted :)
15:36 jdv79 or is that a bug?
15:38 lucasb Is the problem with 'role R[::T] { has T $.x }' the fact that T will only be known at runtime and 'has' needs to know that at compile time?
15:39 timotimo no, it has to be known at composition time
15:40 timotimo which is when you apply the role to something or when you pun the role
15:40 timotimo not sure why you use ::T there, tbh
15:41 timotimo m: role R[T] { has T $.r}; say R[Str].new.r.WHAT
15:41 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/pLd2F20ndY␤Invalid typename 'T' in parameter declaration.␤at /tmp/pLd2F20ndY:1␤------> 3role R[T7⏏5] { has T $.r}; say R[Str].new.r.WHAT␤»
15:41 timotimo oh, that's why
15:41 timotimo m: role R[::T] { has T $.r}; say R[Str].new.r.WHAT
15:41 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'gist' not found for invocant of class 'T'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/jxxLkXSbuk:1␤␤»
15:41 timotimo it really shouldn't do that, why does it do that?
15:41 timotimo m: role R[::T] { has T $.r}; class Test does R[Str] { }; Test.new.r.WHAT
15:41 camelia rakudo-moar : ( no output )
15:41 timotimo a problem with punning, i suppose?
15:42 timotimo because it *should* work the exact same way there
15:42 timotimo like, punning is designed to be the same as applying the role to an empty class
15:42 jdv79 no, composing that onto a class produces the same thing
15:43 timotimo huh?
15:43 timotimo camelia says no
15:43 DrForr How is Bailador coming along?
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15:44 DrForr (I supposse I could just download it myself...)
15:44 timotimo i don't know if there were many commits to bailador in the recent months?
15:45 DrForr Hrm.
15:46 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 4c0fb2e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (95 files):
15:46 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Remove superfluous "web" dir
15:46 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder:
15:46 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: We are not building anything anymore, so we can do without any special dirs to keep the files in.
15:46 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/4c0fb2e415
15:46 timotimo oh
15:46 timotimo there was a pull request to bailador 22 days ago
15:46 jdv79 m: role R[::T] { has T $.r}; class Test does R[Str] { }; Test.new.r.say
15:46 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'say' not found for invocant of class 'T'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/3rGqp2dydl:1␤␤»
15:46 timotimo it adds a license file %)
15:46 timotimo oh, i forgot the "say"!
15:46 timotimo silly me!
15:47 DrForr Well, if it's stable enough that someone can run the Plack equivalent and get a dynamic webpage that's all I'd ask.
15:48 timotimo no clue
15:48 timotimo i'm bad at web
15:48 DrForr Actually that's another dependency that might scare people off. Backup plan.
15:49 timotimo last time i web-app'd i used HTTP::Server::Async
15:49 stmuk_ I think gabor uses a perl6 web system in production for perl6maven
15:49 timotimo is it a web server or a generator?
15:49 timotimo you can easily see if you use siege or ab :P
15:49 moritz server
15:50 moritz m: put Int
15:50 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Int in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed.  in block <unit> at /tmp/6wUq_OA6Gv:1␤␤»
15:53 stmuk_ I think its nginx proxying bailidor
15:54 stmuk_ with the perl6 restarted frequently via a cron :)
15:54 timotimo d'oh
15:57 Skarsnik damn smoke/smokegen (the tool used by kde to bind qt/kde lib to other language) is not really good with C, but it's close x) http://pastebin.com/FKZPCAcL
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16:02 lucasb m: say '3' / '2'
16:02 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1.5␤»
16:02 lucasb m: say '3' div '2'
16:02 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Cannot call infix:<div>(Str, Str); none of these signatures match:␤    (Int:D \a, Int:D \b)␤    (int $a, int $b --> int)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Kc_tdIga6M:1␤␤»
16:02 lucasb 'div' needs to be stricter for some reason?
16:03 moritz yes.
16:04 hankache lucasb div will only accept integers
16:04 dalek star: e6cb388 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2015.11.md:
16:04 dalek star: Add draft 2015.11 release announcements
16:04 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/e6cb3885af
16:04 hankache m: say 3.0 div 2.0;
16:04 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Cannot call infix:<div>(Rat, Rat); none of these signatures match:␤    (Int:D \a, Int:D \b)␤    (int $a, int $b --> int)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/0LNb5Xfj4H:1␤␤»
16:04 hankache lucasb not even Rat
16:05 moritz div is specificallly *integer* division; use / if you want general division
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16:05 hankache m: say 3 / 2;
16:05 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1.5␤»
16:05 autarch what's the process by which bugs get on the Christmas list? is it too late to add anything?
16:05 hankache m: say 3 div 2;
16:05 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤»
16:06 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 74a2be4 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | build-project-list.pl:
16:06 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Add --help usage instructions to builder script
16:06 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/74a2be40b5
16:06 lucasb ok, thanks hankache, moritz
16:06 moritz autarch: you convince jnthn or TimToady (I think; or maybe me) that it's a Christmas blocker
16:06 hankache lucasb plus the result is always rounded down to the closest Int
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16:07 moritz m: say (-3) div 2
16:07 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«-2␤»
16:07 timotimo rounded down or truncated?
16:07 stmuk_ hmmm I'm seeing use.t fail with Inline::Perl5
16:07 moritz timotimo: ^^ doesn't look like truncation
16:07 hankache timotimo isn't it the same thing?
16:08 hankache from a mathematical point of view?
16:08 timotimo well, there's "round towards 0" and "round towards negative inf"
16:08 timotimo both could be called "round down"
16:09 moritz except that zero isn't "down" from a negative number's POV
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16:10 timotimo the absolute value goes down, though :P
16:10 timotimo from -3.6 to -3
16:11 hankache imho it's rounded down because if it was truncated -3 div 2 would have truncated -1.5 which would be -1
16:11 DrForr Is this overkill for a tutorial description? http://paste.scsys.co.uk/501771
16:11 FROGGS joined #perl6
16:13 hankache DrForr no
16:14 telex joined #perl6
16:14 DrForr Thanks. I tried to hit what I think is going to be a draw, and at least what I'm pretty sure I can teach.
16:15 lucasb DrForr: Don't you think is better to change 'Please come to the tutorial with a laptop running the latest version of Rakudo Star' to 'We will teach you how to install the thing'? :)
16:16 pink_mist maybe have a pre-tutorial workshop where you help people install it
16:17 DrForr Guh. If it's going to be that hard by May then there's no point to a tutorial.
16:18 pink_mist good point :P
16:19 DrForr Rakudobrew went onto my system simply, but I'm guessing by what's being said here that I'm in the vast minority?
16:19 DrForr Or am I simply describing the wrong install requirement?
16:20 hankache DrForr chekout https://github.com/hankache/perl6intro
16:20 stmuk_ I suspect most people on the channel install rakudo daily but that the potential audience might be better off installing from docker or something
16:20 hankache DrForr or http://www.perl6intro.com
16:21 hankache I tried to compile an introductory tutorial. I would be glad if it can be of any help
16:21 masak metasin: yes, I definitely missed the joke, whatever it was :)
16:22 DrForr hankache: It'd be going into an OSCON tutorial link, ust so you're aware.
16:22 DrForr *just
16:23 DrForr OSCON US has a dearth of Perl material and I'm hoping to capitalize on that.
16:24 DrForr And being a bit scared of the prospect of doing a 3-hour tutorial out of the gate.
16:27 hankache DrForr good luck. I am still learning Perl 6 so if you need a beginner point of view i can help
16:27 DrForr Cool,  may take you up on that.
16:28 Begi11115 That's my case too if you need DrForr
16:28 * DrForr scratches notes down.
16:29 hankache What is an OSCON tutorial link? Sorry in my part of the world we're way behind those things
16:30 timotimo just means the description of the session will link to your site
16:30 DrForr perl6info.com would be going into my tutorial description, and appear as part of the OSCON schedule, people interested in the tutorial would go there.
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16:31 hankache DrForr ok. if it can help other people why not
16:31 DrForr Just saying you might get more traffic than you bargained for :)
16:31 hankache DrForr its perl6intro.com
16:31 timotimo i think it's hosted on github.io
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16:32 hankache no it's on bluehost but its solid, should be able to handle the traffic
16:33 DrForr Okay, cool. OTOH people interested in this will probably self-select for creativity and desire to do something, so I shouldn't worry *too* much.
16:33 hankache the source is on github though
16:33 timotimo ah, ok
16:34 DrForr Yah, I'm not expecting much, and this only matters of course if it's accepted, which is a bit of a long shot.
16:35 FROGGS joined #perl6
16:36 dalek perl6.org: 4271a55 | (Steve Mynott)++ | source/documentation/index.html:
16:36 dalek perl6.org: add perl6intro.com
16:36 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/4271a5518d
16:37 hankache DrForr best of luck. ping me if you need any help
16:37 DrForr Thanks.
16:38 DrForr I'm currently working with 6Gb RAM, do we have any minimal hardware/software requirement docs hanging around?
16:38 * DrForr goes looking.
16:39 moritz /home/moritz/p6/star/install/bin/perl6-j --target=jar --output=/home/moritz/p6/star/insta​ll/share/perl6/lib/JSON/Fast.pm.jar /home/moritz/p6/star/install/​share/perl6/lib/JSON/Fast.pm
16:39 moritz ===SORRY!===
16:39 moritz Cannot unbox a type object
16:39 Skarsnik moar spawn like 100Mo at least I think?
16:40 moritz for compiling the setting, I think you should have at least 1.5GB RAM
16:43 DrForr That's decent.
16:44 diakopter I just compiled the setting just now; it used max 921 MB real memory and max 3.27 GB virtual memory
16:45 pdcawley joined #perl6
16:47 stmuk_ moritz: https://github.com/rakudo/star/pull/56
16:51 khw joined #perl6
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16:55 dalek star: a38ae2b | (Steve Mynott)++ | docs/2015-spw-perl6-course.pdf:
16:55 dalek star: import newer Nov 21 version of jnthn slides
16:55 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/a38ae2bad3
16:55 dalek star: 5660f6e | (Steve Mynott)++ | docs/announce/2015.11.md:
16:55 dalek star: ref to updated tutorial in announce
16:55 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/5660f6e00b
16:55 dalek star: 0548398 | moritz++ | docs/ (2 files):
16:55 dalek star: Merge pull request #56 from stmuk/master
16:55 dalek star:
16:55 moritz stmuk_: thanks!
16:55 dalek star: Updated jnthn slides
16:55 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/054839828f
16:56 stmuk_ np
16:56 moritz sno: I can give you access to hack.p6c.org, a shared linux box where the R* problems can be reproduced
16:56 moritz sno: are you interested?
16:57 sno moritz: I don't have time this evening for longer remote session
16:57 sno moritz: I have such a machine upstairs, but trouble with family etc. ...
16:58 moritz sno: ok
16:58 sno I can manage that until ~ Tuesday
16:59 sno and then I do both, fix Darwin tar misusage, too :D
16:59 hankache bbiab
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17:16 stmuk_ Usage: panda <action> [options]
17:17 stmuk_ but I have to do panda --notests install 007
17:17 stmuk_ I think it should be Usage: panda [options] <action>?
17:18 zengargoyle stmuk_: think it's a limitation of MAIN() argument processing.  named things (flags) must be before positionals.
17:18 stmuk_ yes it's caused many problems over the last few months
17:19 stmuk_ also side effects from allowing multiple modules being installed at once
17:21 Ven joined #perl6
17:22 zengargoyle is that where it sometimes fails to reinstall everything during a rakudobrew build?
17:23 stmuk_ I was thinking more of the commandline arg processing .. not seen that other problem
17:23 zengargoyle seems i'm always double checking and manually reinstalling something.
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17:49 dalek star: e33753b | moritz++ | docs/announce/2015.11.md:
17:49 dalek star: Note about beta status, and brokenness of the JVM backend
17:49 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/e33753b084
17:49 Ven joined #perl6
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18:00 dalek star: 222cce6 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
18:00 dalek star: Bump version to 2015.11
18:00 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/222cce6ca8
18:01 moritz http://hack.p6c.org/~moritz/r​akudo-star-2015.11-rc0.tar.gz # R* 2015.11 Release Candidate
18:01 moritz please test it
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18:13 xfix perl6: multi a(Int $n) is cached { $n }; say a 20
18:14 camelia rakudo-jvm c016df: OUTPUT«20␤»
18:14 camelia ..rakudo-moar: OUTPUT«Cannot invoke object with invocation handler in this context␤  in sub a at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
18:14 xfix perl6: multi a(Int $n) is cached { $n }; say try a 20; say a 20;
18:14 camelia rakudo-moar: OUTPUT«Nil␤20␤»
18:14 camelia ..rakudo-jvm c016df: OUTPUT«20␤20␤»
18:14 xfix Am I not understanding something, or is it a bug?
18:17 raiph m: multi a(Int $n) is cached { $n }; say (a 20).WHAT
18:17 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Cannot invoke object with invocation handler in this context␤  in sub a at /tmp/F7DYn7By0G:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/F7DYn7By0G:1␤␤»
18:18 raiph m: sub a(Int $n) is cached { $n }; a 20
18:18 camelia rakudo-moar : ( no output )
18:18 raiph m: sub multi a(Int $n) { $n }; a 20
18:18 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/opEYzLKyNi␤Missing block␤at /tmp/opEYzLKyNi:1␤------> 3sub multi7⏏5 a(Int $n) { $n }; a 20␤    expecting any of:␤        new name to be defined␤»
18:18 raiph m: multi a(Int $n) { $n }; a 20
18:18 camelia rakudo-moar : ( no output )
18:18 raiph m: multi a(Int $n) is cached { $n }; a 20
18:18 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Cannot invoke object with invocation handler in this context␤  in sub a at /tmp/3lx3Ni259v:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/3lx3Ni259v:1␤␤»
18:19 BenGoldberg j:  multi a(Int $n) is cached { $n }; a(20).WHAT.say
18:19 camelia rakudo-jvm c016df: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
18:19 BenGoldberg m: multi a(Int $n) is cached { $n }; a(20).WHAT.say
18:19 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Cannot invoke object with invocation handler in this context␤  in sub a at /tmp/ozhOVoIt_6:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ozhOVoIt_6:1␤␤»
18:20 BenGoldberg raiph, Maybe you should file a bug report?
18:20 diakopter xfix: it's plainly a bug
18:21 xfix Calling a function once while catching exceptions is a workaround, but I feel it's not supposed to work that way.
18:23 raiph currently exploring if it's related to https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=124016
18:25 hankache raiph thank you for the typo correction
18:26 psch RT #125278 exists, fwiw
18:26 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=125278
18:28 psch no idea if "you need to proto that" would be the fix or if it should be more along the lines of "oh, it's cached, lets gen a cached proto"
18:29 lucasb m: proto f(|) is cached {}; multi f($n) { $n }; say f 20
18:29 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Nil␤»
18:29 lucasb ^^ even a proto doesn't fix that
18:30 psch well, it fixes the LTA error :S
18:30 psch m: proto f(|) is cached {*}; multi f($n) { $n }; say f 20
18:30 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«20␤»
18:30 psch and an empty proto just does nothing
18:31 psch m: proto f(|) is cached {*}; multi f($n) { say "uncached yet"; $n }; say f 20; say f 20
18:31 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«uncached yet␤20␤20␤»
18:32 lucasb ^^ I made a mistake, forgot the {*} thing. nevermind my eval :)
18:33 psch i don't know about use-cases for is cached, and whether caching on a proto-level (i.e. for all multis) or not is something a user might want to decide themselves...
18:34 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
18:34 psch as in, i can imagine a "give me a fresh result here" use-case, but i'm not sure MMD is what this should be delegated to
18:34 psch although considering only the first non-cached proto multi invocation throws that error it probably should work on a candidate level
18:37 raiph hankache: yw
18:37 raiph psch: now *that* looks like the right rt :)
18:38 raiph psch: "first non-cached proto multi invocation throws that error" <-- please repeat that with camelia so i understand :)
18:39 psch m: multi a(Int $n) is cached { $n }; say try a 20; say a 20; # this one
18:39 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Nil␤20␤»
18:39 psch m: multi a(Int $n) is cached { say "uncached yet"; $n }; say try a 20; say a 20; # this one
18:39 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Nil␤uncached yet␤20␤»
18:39 psch m: multi a(Int $n) is cached { say "uncached yet"; $n }; say try a 20; say a 20; say a 20# this one
18:39 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Nil␤uncached yet␤20␤20␤»
18:39 psch note it still caches afterwards
18:40 psch (alternative let me rephrase: "[...] considering only the first invocation of a multi that is cached without a proto that is cached [...]")
18:44 xfix perl6: say 9 ** 9 ** 90
18:44 camelia rakudo-jvm c016df: OUTPUT«-Inf␤»
18:44 camelia ..rakudo-moar: OUTPUT«0␤»
18:44 xfix 0?
18:46 xfix I see, Rakudo cannot calculate cannot Int ** Int where an exponent doesn't fit in a native integer.
18:47 Ulti left #perl6
18:47 pink_mist try a FatRat?
18:50 psch m: say 9 ** FatRat.new(9 ** 90, 1)
18:50 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Inf␤»
18:50 psch m: say FatRat.new(9 ** 90, 1)
18:50 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«76177348045866392339289727720615561750424​801402395196724001565744957137343033038019601␤»
18:51 psch m: say FatRat.new(9, 1) ** FatRat.new(9 ** 90, 1)
18:51 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Inf␤»
18:52 skids m: grammar foo {  rule TOP { . } }; foo.parse("foo",:subclass_arg_to_ignore)
18:53 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'subclass_arg_to_ignore' passed␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/cUwyy7Hppz:1␤␤»
18:53 skids star: grammar foo {  rule TOP { . } }; foo.parse("foo",:subclass_arg_to_ignore)
18:53 camelia star-m 2015.09: ( no output )
18:53 skids That was breaking Grammar::BNF but I worked around it.
18:54 stmuk_ moritz: https://github.com/rakudo/star/pull/57
18:55 raiph psch: thanks
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18:59 * skids files as RT#126708
19:00 psch m: say f(*%opts) { say %opts.perl }; f :subclass_arg_to_ignore
19:00 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ZrVtxYeq93␤Unexpected block in infix position (missing statement control word before the expression?)␤at /tmp/ZrVtxYeq93:1␤------> 3say f(*%opts)7⏏5 { say %opts.perl }; f :subclass_arg_to_␤    expecting…»
19:00 psch m: sub f(*%opts) { say %opts.perl }; f :subclass_arg_to_ignore
19:00 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«{:subclass_arg_to_ignore}␤»
19:00 psch m: class A { method m(*%opts) { say %opts.perl } }; A.new.m :subclass_arg_to_ignore
19:00 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«{:subclass_arg_to_ignore}␤»
19:00 psch m: say Grammar.^can('parse')>>.candidates>>.signature
19:00 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(((Grammar $: $target, :$rule = { ... }, :$args = { ... }, Mu :$actions = { ... }, *%opt)))␤»
19:01 skids Maybe it is actually the call to the .cursor method complaining.
19:03 timotimo if it's a call to a method, a named parameter wouldn't complain without some extra code to do the complaining
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19:04 skids Do nqp methods follow that convention as well?
19:04 timotimo i believe so, yeah
19:05 timotimo if you really do mean methods and not nqp:: things
19:06 skids Well if it has to be caled as self."!cursor_init" who knows how it was cobbled together.
19:06 raiph m: my $*foo = 1; say :$*foo # searched rakudo src and clogs for "unexpected named parameter"; I think this one's coming from `say`
19:06 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'foo' passed␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/t_aKAYrx6z:1␤␤»
19:08 psch nqp-m: class A { method foo() { } }; A.new.foo :bar
19:08 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "A.new.foo "␤   at gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:521  (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/shar​e/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:panic:105)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQP.nqp:921  (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share​/nqp/lib/nqp.moarvm:comp_unit:872)␤ from …»
19:08 psch nqp-m: class A { method foo() { } }; A.new.foo(:bar)
19:08 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'bar' passed␤   at /tmp/K857Ys5RPJ:1  (<ephemeral file>:foo:3)␤ from /tmp/K857Ys5RPJ:1  (<ephemeral file>:<mainline>:37)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1303  (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share​/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:eval:190)␤…»
19:09 psch no interface consistency in nqp it seems
19:09 dalek roast: 7e1ef3e | usev6++ | S16-io/lines.t:
19:09 dalek roast: Fudge test for :nl-in and :chomp on JVM
19:09 dalek roast:
19:09 dalek roast: Major duplication of code was necessary to be able to
19:09 dalek roast: fudge failing tests. As elegant as nested 'for' loops
19:09 dalek roast: are for testing different parameters, as hard it becomes
19:09 dalek roast: to fudge specific tests.
19:09 dalek roast:
19:09 dalek roast: Please revert if you find a better way to do the fudging.
19:09 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7e1ef3ee08
19:15 pdcawley joined #perl6
19:24 mj41 joined #perl6
19:29 mj41 .tell jnthn https://github.com/rakudo/star/blob/m​aster/docs/2015-spw-perl6-course.pdf slide 23 s/# (Int)/# (Str)/
19:29 yoleaux mj41: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
19:35 timotimo hm, the rakudo star announcement didn't go out yet, right?
19:38 stmuk_ its in RC
19:47 xinming joined #perl6
19:47 stmuk_ I can't "panda install XML" with star rc0 I see "./prove: 1: ./prove: Cannot fork
19:47 stmuk_ The spawned process exited unsuccessfully (exit code: 2) in method throw at /home/steve/othersrc/star/rakudo-star-2015.11-rc0/​install/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:1
19:48 stmuk_ I've seen this both on linux and os x
19:48 * flussence came across this interesting article today about the PRNG in V8 being subtly, horribly broken: https://medium.com/@betable/tifu-​by-using-math-random-f1c308c4fd9d
19:49 Sqirrel joined #perl6
19:50 gfldex m: for 1..5 { say ([+] 1.rand xx 100000) / 100000 }
19:50 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.499856562498002␤0.498229974484659␤0.4989​56127554163␤0.498720718972541␤0.499470305202736␤»
19:54 psch j: for 1..5 { say ([+] 1.rand xx 10000) / 10000 } # less precision, 'cause timeout
19:54 camelia rakudo-jvm c016df: OUTPUT«0.500889111480991␤0.49810811​090140594␤0.4977089177080055␤0.4983​8340840390394␤0.5054720095566693␤»
19:55 psch yay noise :)
19:55 lucasb This is a friendly reminder that the advent calendar schedule is empty. Hope you people are thinking about your post ideas :)
19:56 El_Che In case no one linked here to the latest Larry Wall interview: https://twit.tv/shows/triangulation/episodes/225
19:56 metasin El_Che: thanks
19:58 grondilu there will be an advent calendar even this year?  Isn't that a bit of a waste of time/energy before Xmas?
19:58 stmuk_ "panda install XML" works fine for me with current rakudobrew
20:00 lucasb grondilu: yep, I understand the developers will be busy with the release. Don't know what others think. Having advent calendars in all the past years and the release year doesn't have one would look strange.
20:01 ilmari it would be nice (and better for search engin findability) if one of docs?.perl6.org redirected to the other
20:02 zacts joined #perl6
20:03 jdv79 surely advent is better than no advent
20:04 spider-mario joined #perl6
20:05 masak +1 to advent calendar
20:05 masak as usual, I'm ready to chip in with posts. can't do it alone, though :)
20:05 eliasr joined #perl6
20:07 ilmari m: say 2³
20:07 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/H2qRJC5PlK␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/H2qRJC5PlK:1␤------> 3say 27⏏5³␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤ …»
20:07 ilmari m: say 2²
20:07 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/phUHQ9bZgB␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/phUHQ9bZgB:1␤------> 3say 27⏏5²␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤ …»
20:08 ilmari m: my \x = 2; say x³
20:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ibSEnL61t7␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/ibSEnL61t7:1␤------> 3my \x = 2; say x7⏏5³␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement m…»
20:09 ilmari m: sub postfix:<²> ($x) { $x ** 2 }; say 3²
20:09 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«9␤»
20:09 ilmari http://docs.perl6.org/language/unico​de_entry#Superscripts_and_subscripts implies they should work OOTB
20:10 masak ilmari: that's not how I read it.
20:10 ilmari oh, no, that's not actually code
20:10 masak it's talking about which characters might be useful when defining stuff like operators.
20:11 ilmari yeah, I realised
20:14 ilmari what I was actually looking for was the equivalent of perl5's \N{...}
20:14 dalek star: 59c0536 | (Steve Mynott)++ | docs/announce/2015.11.md:
20:14 dalek star: correct two minor typos
20:14 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/59c0536205
20:14 dalek star: 349fb98 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2015.11.md:
20:14 dalek star: Merge pull request #57 from stmuk/master
20:14 dalek star:
20:14 dalek star: correct two minor typos
20:14 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/349fb9812e
20:15 masak m: say "\c[WHITE SMILING FACE]" # <-- ilmari
20:15 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«☺␤»
20:16 ilmari where is this documented?
20:16 dwarring joined #perl6
20:16 masak ilmari: perhaps more importantly, where did you expect but fail to find it? :)
20:18 stmuk_ http://examples.perl6.org/categories/co​okbook/01strings/01-05namedunicode.html
20:20 lucasb Just noticed that these 2 cheatsheets have minor differences: mu/docs/Perl6/Cheatsheet/cheatsheet.txt and star/docs/cheatsheet.txt. One should be the official and the other just a copy.
20:21 stmuk_ I suspect the mu one is outdated
20:21 znpy joined #perl6
20:21 FROGGS joined #perl6
20:22 FROGGS o/
20:22 yoleaux 15:16Z <nine> FROGGS: with my last rakudo patch, a panda installed into a Repository::Installation now works with the wrapper generated by rakudo and can install many modules :) The default repo list contains only Repository::Installation (perl6 -e 'say $*REPO.repo-chain')
20:24 FROGGS nine: and that's with the panda/curli branch as well?
20:27 ilmari masak: http://docs.perl6.org/language/quoting was the first place I looked
20:27 lucasb stmuk_: I saw you updated the star one. But it is a little misleading since the mu one says 'cheat sheet v4' and the star one says 'cheat sheet v2'
20:27 ilmari masak: since it's part of interpolating string syntax
20:28 ilmari I also looked under http://design.perl6.org/S15.html
20:28 ilmari and http://design.perl6.org/S02.​html#Strings%2C_the_Str_Type
20:29 masak I agree those are good places to look.
20:29 ilmari ah, http://design.perl6.org/S0​2.html#Unicode_codepoints
20:29 ilmari I didn't look far enough down
20:29 masak yes, S02 would be the first place I'd look :)
20:29 rurban joined #perl6
20:30 stmuk_ lucasb: maybe vimdiff the two?
20:30 stmuk_ or ediff or *
20:30 FROGGS nine: I'm unable to build the restricted setting: Too few positionals passed; expected 3 arguments but got 0
20:30 masak but I have the advantage of knowing roughly how the synopses are structured...
20:34 diakopter m: my int8 @a[-1;-1]; say @a[0;0]
20:34 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Index 0 for dimension 2 out of range (must be 0..-2)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Hf5peDxaf0:1␤␤»
20:34 diakopter O_O
20:34 FROGGS hehe
20:34 diakopter masakbug: lookie
20:34 FROGGS diakopter: good catch :o)
20:35 diakopter m: my int8 @a[;];
20:35 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'returns': no method cache and no .^find_method␤»
20:36 diakopter m: my int8 @a[0;0]; say @a[;]
20:36 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'flat': no method cache and no .^find_method␤»
20:36 diakopter masak: ^^ three buggoes
20:38 timotimo hehe.
20:39 timotimo dinner time \o/
20:39 diakopter m: my int8 @a[1;1]; @a[0;0] = 256; say @a[0;0]
20:39 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0␤»
20:40 diakopter m: my int8 @a[0;0]; @a[0;0] = 256; say @a[0;0]
20:40 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Index 0 for dimension 2 out of range (must be 0..-1)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/lRPSfpcJBs:1␤␤»
20:40 diakopter # imho it shouldn't allow zero as a dimension
20:40 FROGGS aye
20:40 Skarsnik m: int4 @a[1;1]; @a[0;0;] = 256; say @a[0,0];
20:40 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/L7o7TkaOQX␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/L7o7TkaOQX:1␤------> 3int47⏏5 @a[1;1]; @a[0;0;] = 256; say @a[0,0];␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        statement end␤        …»
20:40 Skarsnik m: int4 @a[1;1]; @a[0;0] = 256; say @a[0,0];
20:40 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/TYr6XRowHF␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/TYr6XRowHF:1␤------> 3int47⏏5 @a[1;1]; @a[0;0] = 256; say @a[0,0];␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        statement end␤        s…»
20:41 Skarsnik m: my int4 @a[1;1]; @a[0;0] = 256; say @a[0;0];
20:41 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«MultiDimArray: Unhandled slot type␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/DslJ3nq3Jt:1␤␤»
20:41 diakopter it doesn't get below int8 yet
20:42 psch m: my int4 $x;
20:42 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Invalid int size for local/lexical␤»
20:42 Skarsnik m:use NativeCall; say nativesizeof(int8); say nativesizeof(int4);
20:42 Skarsnik m: use NativeCall; say nativesizeof(int8); say nativesizeof(int4);
20:42 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤0␤»
20:43 FROGGS nine: I have no idea what's wrong: https://gist.github.com/FR​OGGS/8f38f2ca2887d82ff0bb
20:44 dalek rakudo/nom: bc52faa | usev6++ | lib/Test.pm:
20:44 dalek rakudo/nom: Report long name for exceptions in 'throws-like'
20:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bc52faa532
20:44 dalek rakudo/nom: ae8216b | FROGGS++ | lib/Test.pm:
20:44 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #597 from usev6/throws-like_longname
20:44 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:44 dalek rakudo/nom: Report long name for exceptions in 'throws-like'
20:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ae8216b881
20:49 sivoais joined #perl6
20:53 masak this might be of interest to the package/module people on this channel: http://blog.ezyang.com/2014/08/the-fundamental-pr​oblem-of-programming-language-package-management/
20:54 masak just discovered it now, though it's more than a year old, as you can see by the URL.
20:54 kjs_ joined #perl6
20:55 moritz if it's as fundamental as the URL makes us believe, a year of age won't change much :-)
20:57 masak ;)
21:01 Skarsnik it's quite empty in the end x)
21:01 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
21:03 diakopter dependencies vs requirements; until we have holistic proof-oriented programming [languages, tools, AND entire OSes], we'll be in this quagmire
21:03 dalek rakudo-star-daily: ba06d10 | coke++ | log/ (10 files):
21:03 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
21:03 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/ba06d10358
21:03 dalek perl6-roast-data: 8a49548 | coke++ | / (9 files):
21:03 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
21:03 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/8a495481d8
21:05 geraud joined #perl6
21:13 masak 'night, #perl6
21:14 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
21:21 nine FROGGS: that's...odd
21:21 nine FROGGS: it build NQP revision 8ffafe6?
21:22 nine FROGGS: have you nuked your install dir?
21:24 FROGGS no, have not nuked my install... that might be it
21:24 FROGGS nine: nqp is latest
21:24 nine I haven't merged nom in a while. So the branch might no longer be compatible with current nqp.
21:24 FROGGS hmm, let's see
21:24 hankache joined #perl6
21:28 FROGGS okay, looks like I want an older nqp
21:28 nine I'll have a look at merging nom
21:31 znpy joined #perl6
21:31 nine It's just two simple conflicts. Building now.
21:32 FROGGS All positional args must appear before named args
21:32 FROGGS maybe I'd need an older moar too :o)
21:32 FROGGS (or I'll just wait)
21:34 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 104 commits to rakudo/curli by niner
21:34 nine Built successfully :)
21:34 FROGGS cool :o)
21:34 Averna joined #perl6
21:38 TEttinger joined #perl6
21:39 FROGGS ./perl6-m --target=mbc -Ilib --output=lib/NativeCall/Compiler/GNU.pm.moarvm lib/NativeCall/Compiler/GNU.pm
21:39 FROGGS D05D5F27E9A6C63503C21B4A647CCBA1E706405A
21:39 FROGGS nine: it built fine
21:39 FROGGS \o/
21:39 nine yeah!
21:43 jdv79 what just happened?
21:44 FROGGS nine: ohh, panda is installing to home rather than site?
21:44 nine It's installing to the first repo that allows installing.
21:45 FROGGS k
21:45 FROGGS then the search order is wrong I guess :o)
21:45 FROGGS but it's nice that it works anyway :o)
21:45 nine That's one of the points that could use some discussion. Search order for loading modules should probably be HOME, site, vendor but for installation just site, HOME
21:46 moritz doesn't R* for example want to install into vendor?
21:46 FROGGS there probably should be a way to tell panda to a specific repo anyway
21:46 nine There already is
21:47 jdv79 what's wrong with installing to home in some cases?
21:47 nine As root I usually want to install system wide
21:49 nine panda install --prefix /home/nine/install/rakudo/install/share/perl6/site Foo will install into the site repo
21:51 jdv79 is that env var able?
21:52 jdv79 or config or whatever
21:52 nine There's PANDA_DEFAULT_OPTS
21:53 polettix joined #perl6
21:53 FROGGS nine: one missing thing is precomp, right?
21:54 FROGGS nine: or is there something else that I could look into in the upcoming days?
21:59 nine FROGGS: CompUnit::Repository::Installation precompiles on installation (line 194), Repository::FileSystem in need (line 57).
21:59 FROGGS ohh, cool
21:59 Begi11116 joined #perl6
22:00 nine I'm not sure if we invalidate precomp files in all situations. The one thing that's sorely missing is tests :/
22:00 FROGGS hmmm, maybe then I do that
22:01 jdv79 where is this stuff that needs tests?
22:01 nine jdv79: rakudo's curli branch
22:01 jdv79 ok
22:03 nine http://niner.name/curli_test.tar is the only synthetic test I've used. The rest was just building rakudo (which installs files), running the spectests (which do use lib quite a lot) and running panda
22:08 nine I also think that we should install the wrappers for scripts into /usr/local/bin and ~/bin directly instead of the repo. The wrappers are looking through repos and distributions to find the correct scripts anyway. And it'd be much more user friendly.
22:12 FROGGS nine: I'm going to bed now but tomorrow I'll add tests to roast
22:13 FROGGS gnight
22:15 sprocket joined #perl6
22:16 mj41 The Christmas is comming. Nice momentum in number of commits in October https://github.com/mj41/Perl6-Anal​ytics-results/blob/master/slides/m​j41-brnopm-prev2.md#id-all-commits
22:21 David_Cassel joined #perl6
22:22 gfldex is there any way to force binding for a value returned by a sub, from inside the sub?
22:24 jdv79 wow, the git tree is a bit crazy unless i'm failing to follow this
22:24 Zoffix joined #perl6
22:25 tokuhiro_ joined #perl6
22:28 moritz gfldex: this is a bit like asking "I want to sell those apples, but force everybody who buys them not to put them in a box" :-)
22:29 gfldex moritz: i believe to be aware of some of the consequences but still would like to have that answer answered.
22:34 znpy joined #perl6
22:38 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
22:43 loren joined #perl6
22:52 bartolin .tell [Coke] the spectest for JVM should be nearly clean by now. the three failures in S05-mass/properties-general.t (596-598) seem to happen because we test unicode characters not supported by Java 7 (the tests pass with JDK 1.8)
22:52 yoleaux bartolin: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
22:59 dalek nqp: 0944ec5 | peschwa++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/JASTNodes.nqp:
22:59 dalek nqp: Make --target=jast work and somewhat comprehensible.
22:59 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0944ec5acd
23:00 psch ...and with that i can actually *see* where those args disappear (i hope :/ )
23:05 psch ah, duh, of course not /o\
23:05 psch 'cause compilation breaks before reaching there
23:07 Sqirrel_ joined #perl6
23:07 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
23:09 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
23:09 dalek roast: f1df147 | usev6++ | S32- (2 files):
23:09 dalek roast: Do not rely on order of @.unexpected in X::Adverb
23:09 dalek roast:
23:09 dalek roast: Fixes RT #126671
23:09 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f1df147714
23:09 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=126671
23:20 ggoebel2 joined #perl6
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23:34 ggoebel5 joined #perl6
23:35 ggoebel6 joined #perl6
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23:49 raiph joined #perl6
23:49 lizmat good *, #perl6!
23:49 * lizmat wonders how you would do http://blogs.perl.org/users/ingy_dot_net/2015​/11/perl-regular-expression-awesomeness.html in Perl 6
23:52 kid51 joined #perl6
23:53 dayangkun joined #perl6
23:57 nowan joined #perl6
23:58 lizmat and whether that shouldn't be a rosettacode entry  :-)
23:58 psch m: my @a = <you got mail man mailman manners>; say "yougotmailmanners" ~~ m:ex/@a/ # am i misunderstanding :ex..?
23:58 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(「you」 「got」 「mailman」 「manners」)␤»
23:58 psch i thought :ex gets all possible matches..?
23:59 psch m: my @a = <you got mail man mailman manners>; say "yougotmailmanners" ~~ m:g:ov/@a/ # ...and i don't know if :ov and :ex should do the same here
23:59 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(「you」 「got」 「mailman」 「manners」)␤»

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