Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-11-26

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:00 RabidGravy I can only barely read them to be honest
00:00 uruwi why is there a ↉
00:00 FROGGS joined #perl6
00:00 AlexDaniel m: say ⅟
00:00 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤»
00:00 Hotkeys Yeah at like 12pt Ican barely read the fractions
00:00 Hotkeys with my laptop on my lap
00:01 AlexDaniel Time to get glasses? :)
00:01 Hotkeys sorry 10pt
00:01 Hotkeys consolas
00:01 AlexDaniel actually, I think that some of these fractions were added earlier than others: ½
00:01 uruwi http://puu.sh/lyPO1/5800660bd2.png using IceChat 9 and setting the font to VL Gothic
00:01 Hotkeys because I couldn't be bothered to get another font
00:02 Hotkeys that text looks strange
00:02 AlexDaniel unifont?
00:02 uruwi ^
00:02 uruwi though it's bitmap
00:02 uruwi Not the best if you can't handle aliasing
00:03 Hotkeys I do like smooth looking type
00:03 hahainternet the nice benefit of having these supported in p6 now
00:03 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: you might want to have it installed anyway
00:03 hahainternet is that no 'coding font' maker has any excuse anymore :)
00:03 rigsby joined #perl6
00:03 Hotkeys I'm pretty sure I've tried having a just-in-case fallback font on windows for strange unicode
00:03 Hotkeys and hexchat refuses to use it
00:03 AlexDaniel so that you have a fallback for some rare characters :)
00:04 uruwi
00:04 Hotkeys are there any better windows irc clients
00:04 uruwi I personally use IceChat
00:05 uruwi Seems to display that Hangul character fine, despite not having it in the default font
00:05 uruwi 미마
00:05 Hotkeys icechat has windows in the window
00:05 Hotkeys what is this nonsense
00:05 Zoffix m: say 2³²
00:05 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«4294967296␤»
00:05 Zoffix w00t!
00:06 AlexDaniel m: say 2³2
00:06 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/QAFEHhKsjS␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/QAFEHhKsjS:1␤------> 3say 2³7⏏2␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modif…»
00:06 AlexDaniel m: say ²
00:06 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«2␤»
00:06 AlexDaniel m: say ³²
00:06 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«9␤»
00:06 AlexDaniel well…
00:07 uruwi Well, well, well.
00:07 AlexDaniel I don't even know what should happen in such case…
00:07 Hotkeys I mean without a number to exponentiate it's just a number on its own
00:07 uruwi Syntax error.
00:08 uruwi It'll cause confusion if they're treated like ordinary digits.
00:08 AlexDaniel or perhaps Perl 6 Obfuscated Code Competition should happen!
00:08 Hotkeys lol
00:08 Hotkeys using only subscript ints
00:08 uruwi So I propose reserving those superscript ints for exponentiation
00:08 psch m: say postfix:<ⁿ>(Mu, 3)
00:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Cannot call postfix:<ⁿ>(Mu, Int); none of these signatures match:␤    (\a, \b)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/CjuTah_RuJ:1␤␤»
00:08 psch m: say postfix:<ⁿ>(Any, 3)
00:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context  in block <unit> at /tmp/yyBN7RCOEZ:1␤0␤»
00:08 dalek ecosystem: bdfb17e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
00:08 dalek ecosystem: Remove Operators::Math::Superscripts [obsoleted by addition to core]
00:08 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/bdfb17e1ad
00:09 Hotkeys heh
00:09 Zoffix :)
00:09 Hotkeys m: say ²³²
00:09 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«4294967296␤»
00:09 AlexDaniel well, that's probably LHF but I'll still submit it
00:09 uruwi m: say ²⁺³
00:09 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«8␤»
00:09 Zoffix m: say ²³²²³²²³²²³²
00:09 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0␤»
00:09 Zoffix m: say 2*(²⁺³)
00:09 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«16␤»
00:10 Zoffix .oO( I wonder if there are superscript brackets )
00:10 psch not sure that's particularly LHF...
00:10 Hotkeys ⁽⁾
00:10 Hotkeys yep
00:10 uruwi m: say ⁽²⁾
00:10 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Argument to "say" seems to be malformed␤at /tmp/r7lBW9ikH1:1␤------> 3say7⏏5 ⁽²⁾␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/r7lBW9ikH1:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5⁽²⁾␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤       …»
00:10 Zoffix m: say 2*⁽²⁺³⁾
00:10 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/P4Sz9lOJbe␤Missing required term after infix␤at /tmp/P4Sz9lOJbe:1␤------> 3say 2*7⏏5⁽²⁺³⁾␤    expecting any of:␤        prefix␤        term␤»
00:10 uruwi Don't work, thoug
00:10 Zoffix m: say 2⁽²⁺³⁾
00:10 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/5PyjsnbmTs␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/5PyjsnbmTs:1␤------> 3say 27⏏5⁽²⁺³⁾␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement m…»
00:10 uruwi Let's add them as alternatives to regular brackets!
00:10 Hotkeys we can use them for the superliteral quoting
00:11 uruwi Example?
00:11 Hotkeys sorry just literals
00:12 Hotkeys there are string with interpretation like "Answer is $foo"
00:12 Hotkeys then string w just escaping using single quotes
00:12 Hotkeys superscript brackets could be used for literal strings
00:12 Hotkeys no escaping or interpretation
00:12 Hotkeys s/interpretation/interpolation/
00:13 Upasaka joined #perl6
00:13 Hotkeys I think you already can as long as you also have the Q
00:14 Hotkeys m: say Q⁽$hello wo\rld⁾;
00:14 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«$hello wo\rld␤»
00:14 Hotkeys :D
00:15 Zoffix :-0
00:15 AlexDaniel m: my \n = 8; say 2ⁿ
00:15 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/uLpBn7hTyV␤Confused␤at /tmp/uLpBn7hTyV:1␤------> 3my \n = 8; say 27⏏5ⁿ␤»
00:15 Hotkeys no variables just literals
00:16 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: perhaps that's what Perl 6 should say…
00:16 telex joined #perl6
00:17 Hotkeys I'm sure either a nice error will be put in or variables will be implemented
00:17 Hotkeys It was only just put in like an hour ago
00:17 uruwi For i and n, though.
00:17 uruwi Too bad there are no superscript dollar signs
00:18 Hotkeys yeah
00:19 uruwi and
00:19 AlexDaniel yeahᵎ
00:19 uruwi DARN NO SUPERSCRIPT NEGATIVE ONE
00:19 uruwi (said the person who tried writing a TI-Basic book)
00:19 Hotkeys m: say 2⁻¹
00:19 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/qJu5WwCBFK␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/qJu5WwCBFK:1␤------> 3say 27⏏5⁻¹␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier…»
00:19 Hotkeys I saw it earlier
00:20 Zoffix m: 2¯²
00:20 camelia rakudo-moar : ( no output )
00:20 Zoffix m: say 2¯²
00:20 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.25␤»
00:20 uruwi m: say 2¯¹
00:20 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.5␤»
00:20 AlexDaniel .u ⁻
00:20 yoleaux U+207B SUPERSCRIPT MINUS [Sm] (⁻)
00:20 Hotkeys m: say 2¯¹
00:20 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.5␤»
00:20 AlexDaniel .u ¯
00:20 yoleaux U+00AF MACRON [Sk] (¯)
00:20 uruwi .u ¯
00:20 yoleaux U+00AF MACRON [Sk] (¯)
00:20 * Zoffix is SMRT
00:20 uruwi Yep, better support both of them
00:20 Zoffix .u ¯
00:20 yoleaux U+00AF MACRON [Sk] (¯)
00:20 Hotkeys how do you do the macron
00:20 Zoffix this is what I get with Compose -> ^-
00:21 AlexDaniel .u ⁻
00:21 yoleaux U+207B SUPERSCRIPT MINUS [Sm] (⁻)
00:21 AlexDaniel .u ¯
00:21 yoleaux U+00AF MACRON [Sk] (¯)
00:21 Hotkeys weird
00:21 Zoffix CTRL+SHIFT+u -> AF also works
00:21 Hotkeys I get superscript minus
00:21 Hotkeys although
00:21 Hotkeys this is wincompose
00:21 AlexDaniel Okay, macron is Compose key, ^, -
00:21 Hotkeys ah
00:22 AlexDaniel but ^- is superscript minus…
00:22 Hotkeys I got it
00:22 Hotkeys compose + _ + _ or compose + ^ + _
00:22 uruwi ¯
00:22 uruwi Yep
00:22 Hotkeys er
00:22 Hotkeys the second one is _ + ^
00:22 Zoffix .u ¯
00:22 yoleaux U+00AF MACRON [Sk] (¯)
00:23 Hotkeys m: say 2¯³
00:23 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.125␤»
00:23 Zoffix This is so awesome :)
00:23 Zoffix m: say (2¯³)¯³
00:23 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«512␤»
00:24 Zoffix This works too :O
00:24 uruwi .tell TimToady Make the ⁿ operator take ⁻ (superscript minus) as well as ¯ (macron) for negative powers.
00:24 yoleaux uruwi: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
00:24 AlexDaniel honestly, I have no idea why macron is supported…
00:24 uruwi Maybe it's a typo
00:24 Zoffix wtf is a "macron" anyway?
00:24 Hotkeys it's a diacritic
00:24 uruwi A diacritic
00:24 Hotkeys diacritical mark*
00:24 Zoffix hm
00:24 Hotkeys like Ē
00:25 uruwi as in ā
00:25 Zoffix Right
00:25 Hotkeys or ā
00:25 hahainternet might be my fault, those are the examples i gave
00:25 AlexDaniel m: say 2⁺⁸
00:25 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«256␤»
00:25 hahainternet i used macron by mistake
00:25 AlexDaniel okay, plus works
00:25 Hotkeys lol
00:25 AlexDaniel hahainternet: I'm glad that this feature is implemented!
00:25 AlexDaniel hahainternet: thanks!
00:25 Hotkeys .u ¯
00:25 yoleaux ...
00:26 Hotkeys ...
00:26 hahainternet AlexDaniel: it is very cool
00:26 Hotkeys m: say "¯".uniname
00:26 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«MACRON␤»
00:26 Hotkeys yeah
00:26 hahainternet proper unicode adoption is only going to drive better unicode use
00:26 Hotkeys it's just hardcoded in there
00:26 Hotkeys $power := -$power if $<sign> eq '¯'
00:27 AlexDaniel .tell TimToady or just drop macron…
00:27 yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
00:27 Zoffix hahainternet, TBH Compost ^6 gives me ⁶ so when I pressed Compose ^- and got a ¯, I expected it to be a minus. I think we should still support is as such
00:27 Zoffix Noooo
00:27 Zoffix .tell TimToady no don't drop macron. TBH Compost ^6 gives me ⁶ so when I pressed Compose ^-  and got a ¯, I expected it to be a minus. I think we should still support is as such
00:27 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
00:27 Zoffix .botsnack
00:27 yoleaux :D
00:27 synbot6 om nom nom
00:27 uruwi Change your compose key configuration.
00:27 hahainternet Zoffix: that is what made me do it
00:27 Zoffix uruwi, it's default.
00:27 Hotkeys We could just support both, no?
00:27 hahainternet and uruwi it's more a matter for distributors and the like to manage
00:27 hahainternet we should just support whatever makes sense
00:27 AlexDaniel Zoffix: why don't you fix your keyboard instead?
00:28 Zoffix AlexDaniel, it's not broken.
00:28 hahainternet and a diacritic on its own isn't valid either i don't think
00:28 uruwi It's a standalone diacritic.
00:28 hahainternet so i'm ambivalent
00:28 Hotkeys it technically isn't the combining macron
00:28 Hotkeys just a macron
00:28 uruwi It wouldn't make sense for a combining one.
00:28 Hotkeys so it can be on its own
00:28 hahainternet what i mean is, as part of a number or variable
00:28 hahainternet so it remains unambiguous, i think
00:28 Hotkeys ̄
00:29 FROGGS joined #perl6
00:29 AlexDaniel still it is not a minus…
00:29 AlexDaniel m: say 2 ➕ 5
00:29 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/S8UG1kkqqr␤Confused␤at /tmp/S8UG1kkqqr:1␤------> 3say 27⏏5 ➕ 5␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤  …»
00:29 raiph joined #perl6
00:29 AlexDaniel but this is a plus sign!
00:29 uruwi m: say "t̋".chars
00:29 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤»
00:29 hahainternet AlexDaniel: i see your point for sure
00:29 Hotkeys m: say "̄̄̄̄̄̄̄̄"
00:29 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Argument to "say" seems to be malformed␤at /tmp/7XwscKWzrv:1␤------> 3say7⏏5 "̄̄̄̄̄̄̄̄"␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/7XwscKWzrv:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5"̄̄̄̄̄̄̄̄"␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        inf…»
00:29 hahainternet oh good point Hotkeys
00:29 Hotkeys I tried to put combining macrons in there
00:29 Hotkeys kek
00:29 hahainternet e and pi also valid exponents
00:29 Zoffix Alright :) I better leave before the Great Unicode Fight starts :)
00:30 hahainternet well i'm just happy there's some support in there
00:30 Zoffix left #perl6
00:30 Hotkeys is there a superscript pi?
00:30 hahainternet what you just typed ;)
00:30 uruwi No
00:30 hahainternet but no, you just made me think
00:31 uruwi What's the point
00:31 uruwi m: say "く̥̣̯て̯̣͏͜り̃す̣̥ (ドア)".chars
00:31 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«9␤»
00:31 hahainternet uruwi: that's how things are written in mathematics?
00:31 hahainternet if only it was as useful as latex :(
00:31 uruwi Who raises numbers to the power of pi
00:31 AlexDaniel only subscript one? ᵨ
00:31 AlexDaniel .u ᵨ
00:31 yoleaux U+1D68 GREEK SUBSCRIPT SMALL LETTER RHO [Lm] (ᵨ)
00:31 Hotkeys let's implement latex parsing in perl 6
00:31 Hotkeys :^)
00:31 uruwi Maybe as a module
00:32 Hotkeys all our sourcecode will be pdfs
00:32 uruwi It's a bit too insane for core ;P
00:32 Hotkeys with their own source code
00:32 Hotkeys in plaintext latex
00:32 Hotkeys the former for reading and the latter for parsing etc
00:33 uruwi And don't forget the IDE that combines all these
00:33 hahainternet :D
00:33 Hotkeys yes of course
00:33 hahainternet i have to write my new CV in latex later
00:33 hahainternet there's a certain level of slightly masochistic enjoyment
00:33 Hotkeys write it in the upcoming PerlTeX instead
00:33 hahainternet in writing in latex
00:33 Hotkeys :p
00:33 uruwi I actually enjoy it
00:34 Hotkeys if we can have lualatex why not perltex
00:34 Hotkeys Yeah I write all of my papers in latex
00:34 uruwi はい はい はい
00:34 Hotkeys I used to do lab reports too but that was highschool and I don't have chemistry or physics anymore
00:34 Hotkeys because uni
00:34 hahainternet places that accept CVs only in .doc format
00:34 hahainternet are awful
00:35 hahainternet the worst thing is when they reformat CVs to send to you for interviews
00:35 hahainternet the formatting of the CV tells me as much about the candidate as the contents :(
00:35 AlexDaniel .oO( la6ex )
00:36 AlexDaniel .oO( pronounced as lasex? )
00:36 geekosaur lasix!
00:36 AlexDaniel yeah, that's probably more appropriate
00:36 Hotkeys but the tex part of latex is pronounced like tek
00:37 uruwi lasick
00:37 uruwi lasik
00:37 uruwi ????
00:38 Hotkeys I think lasik is already taken
00:38 Hotkeys by the laser eye surgery thing
00:38 Hotkeys I like when subsequent lines match in length
00:39 uruwi You ruined it
00:39 Hotkeys I know
00:39 Hotkeys : )
00:39 AlexDaniel ha
00:39 uruwi :) : )
00:39 Hotkeys :    )
00:39 Hotkeys haha
00:39 uruwi hahaha
00:39 uruwi I can!
00:40 uruwi Say 1!
00:40 uruwi More!!
00:40 uruwi Ha!!!!
00:40 AlexDaniel but yeah, it is also fun when the line is constantly growing
00:40 uruwi Than!!
00:40 uruwi You!!!
00:40 Hotkeys cheats
00:40 uruwi Cunning?
00:40 uruwi カニング
00:40 Hotkeys ouch
00:41 uruwi But, anyway, hence the eyes.
00:41 Hotkeys talking about euclids elements in philosophy class
00:41 Hotkeys this is my jam
00:45 TimToady oops, I thought it was just a font glitch :)
00:45 yoleaux 00:24Z <uruwi> TimToady: Make the ⁿ operator take ⁻ (superscript minus) as well as ¯ (macron) for negative powers.
00:45 yoleaux 00:27Z <AlexDaniel> TimToady: or just drop macron…
00:45 yoleaux 00:27Z <Zoffix> TimToady: no don't drop macron. TBH Compost ^6 gives me ⁶ so when I pressed Compose ^-  and got a ¯, I expected it to be a minus. I think we should still support is as such
00:47 dalek rakudo/nom: 05e94d7 | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
00:47 dalek rakudo/nom: allow superscript minus
00:47 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/05e94d72c4
00:48 AlexDaniel m: say 2¯1
00:48 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/lWfehXHTvt␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/lWfehXHTvt:1␤------> 3say 27⏏5¯1␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤…»
00:48 hahainternet TimToady: when you say 'no variables', you mean that say $x² is fine, but not say 2^$x (or equiv) right?
00:48 hahainternet also did you make a decision on subscripts in variable names?
00:49 hahainternet no pressure on either of those of course, just wanted to be clear in my mind
00:49 AlexDaniel m: say 2¯¹
00:49 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.5␤»
00:49 AlexDaniel m: say 2¯¯¹
00:49 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Zc6HkETUlC␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/Zc6HkETUlC:1␤------> 3say 27⏏5¯¯¹␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier…»
00:49 AlexDaniel m: say 2¯⁺¹
00:49 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/WwtQif1eCL␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/WwtQif1eCL:1␤------> 3say 27⏏5¯⁺¹␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifie…»
00:49 AlexDaniel m: say 2¯
00:49 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/DYabivpKiX␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/DYabivpKiX:1␤------> 3say 27⏏5¯␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤ …»
00:49 AlexDaniel okay-okay
00:49 uruwi[A] m: say 2⁻¹
00:50 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/IaMrJXG083␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/IaMrJXG083:1␤------> 3say 27⏏5⁻¹␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier…»
00:50 AlexDaniel uruwi[A]: not yet
00:50 TimToady another minute or so
00:51 uruwi[A] Also, any decision on standalone superscripts?
00:51 TimToady m: say 2⁻¹
00:51 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.5␤»
00:51 AlexDaniel m: say 2²⁻¹
00:51 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.25␤»
00:51 AlexDaniel m: say 2²⁻⁺¹
00:51 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/8p29S7P2Ot␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/8p29S7P2Ot:1␤------> 3say 2²7⏏5⁻⁺¹␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modi…»
00:51 TimToady well, standalone superscripts fall under the :No rule
00:51 AlexDaniel m: say 2⁺⁺¹
00:51 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/IS584xfYsi␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/IS584xfYsi:1␤------> 3say 27⏏5⁺⁺¹␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifi…»
00:52 TimToady only a single + or - is allowed
00:52 uruwi[A] any plans to change?
00:52 FROGGS joined #perl6
00:52 TimToady no, it's not an expression
00:52 TimToady it's just a literal
00:53 TimToady Unicode doesn't really support anything beyond that very well
00:54 TimToady we don't have raised $ for instance
00:54 TimToady it's not really a place we can be productive
00:55 TimToady hahainternet: subscripts don't tickle my fancy, but modules will happen...
00:55 hahainternet TimToady: interesting, i wouldn't have thought they'd be too contentious
00:55 hahainternet if others express an interest, would it change your mind?
00:55 Hazim joined #perl6
00:55 Hazim Hello,
00:56 TimToady hahainternet: I have to say "no", so as not to encourage rabble rousing. :P
00:56 uruwi[A] Hazim, hi
00:56 Mouq hahainternet: it gets silly quick :P
00:56 hahainternet aww, well i'd like to leave it in your mind somewhere as a feature that shouldn't be too confusing, x_a is common enough notation
00:56 TimToady blech
00:56 hahainternet but obviously, no pressure :)
00:57 TimToady I have resisted the urge to turn Perl 6 into many languages, so I guess I'll have to add TeX to the list...
00:57 AlexDaniel hahainternet: yet superscripts are doing ** magic yet you want subscript to mean nothing? :)
00:58 hahainternet AlexDaniel: no i just want it to be a permitted character in variable names
00:58 hahainternet so you could have $x₁ and $x₂
00:58 Hotkeys seems reasonable
00:58 hahainternet both distinct, anyway it doesn't matter
00:58 hahainternet it's up to TimToady and i don't want to push
00:58 uruwi[A] I'd probably use $x1 and $x2 anyway
00:58 hahainternet although i would like to know how to get the equiv of .u inside p6
00:58 hahainternet i know about uninames and unival
00:58 AlexDaniel well yeah… Still I'd say that $x₁ is $x[1] …
00:58 hahainternet is there a nice succinct unicode description option?
00:58 hahainternet nice use of … there AlexDaniel :)
00:59 Hotkeys lol
00:59 Hotkeys imagine
00:59 Hazim Hello I lIke To Ask if there is a function to manage "picture, Sounds, Hardware" or talk to Hardware directly from perl 6
00:59 Hotkeys $x₁…$x₂
00:59 hahainternet Hotkeys: beautiful
00:59 Hotkeys imagine
01:00 TimToady Hazim: your best bet would be to use NativeCall to a C library
01:00 Hotkeys $x₁+$x₂…$xₙ
01:01 Hotkeys $x₁+$x₂…$xₙ₋₁+$xₙ I suppose
01:01 AlexDaniel where ₙ could mean * I guess?
01:01 Hotkeys if you want to be explicit
01:01 Hotkeys it'd probably be better for an array notation
01:02 Hotkeys @x₁ @x₂
01:02 AlexDaniel right
01:02 Hotkeys that was you could have @xₙ
01:02 Hotkeys and it would make sense
01:02 Hotkeys not sure if TimToady wants real subscripts for array subscripts though
01:02 TimToady both these ideas belong in module space
01:03 TimToady not really interested in having them built in at this point
01:03 Hotkeys alriiiiight
01:04 Hazim <TimToday> ok then i should learn C first,  sorry for interrupting, I'm not programmer yet, but I could not find answers on the web
01:04 TimToady Hazim: well, even in C, you can't usually talk directly to hardware.  You have to use the operating system.
01:05 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: which at this point means that you will sacrifice more than 1 second of startup time just to have subscripts. Oh, hey, look, superscript! It works!
01:05 Hotkeys startup time shmartup time
01:05 Hotkeys if I want subscripts I'll implement subscripts
01:06 Hotkeys although I don't care enough to do it right now
01:06 Hotkeys maybe later
01:06 Hazim TimToday: Ok, How To Learn&Find All The Function in the Perl 6,
01:06 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: haha yeah, fork Perl 6! Let's start a revolution!
01:07 Hotkeys With blackjack and subscripts
01:07 TimToady Hazim: see http://doc.perl6.org/
01:07 Hotkeys Game::Blackjack anyone?
01:07 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: and ∞!
01:07 Hotkeys lol
01:08 Hotkeys neat ∞ is just compose 8 8
01:08 Hotkeys I was thinking it'd be like ✈ (&airplane)
01:08 TimToady that one will probably sneak in at some point
01:09 Hotkeys I approve of it
01:09 Hotkeys I will include it in Perlkeys
01:09 Hotkeys Perlkeys 6?
01:09 hahainternet m: say 2÷2
01:09 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tEpe1SAi8n␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/tEpe1SAi8n:1␤------> 3say 27⏏5÷2␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤…»
01:09 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: look, they are catching up! Quick, add ≤ ≥ ≠ !
01:10 TimToady .oO(use PERLKEY-TYPING;)
01:10 Hotkeys those are all attractive symbols
01:10 Hotkeys I'm always tempted to type =/= when programming even though I know it's very usually !=
01:11 Hazim TimToday: Thanks Man, Last Thing About The Picture, Sounds,3d...! And C library"  i should learn C or no, COZ i like to Make Apps With GUI, so i ask this Q
01:11 hahainternet or <> (nnngh)
01:11 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: compose = /
01:11 Hotkeys
01:11 Hotkeys beauty
01:11 Hotkeys Why did I not ever get wincompose before
01:11 Hotkeys besides the fact I didn't know about it
01:11 AlexDaniel try ≤ ≥ while you are at it
01:11 hahainternet i didn't realise hovercar wrote it
01:11 hahainternet i'll pass your thanks along
01:11 Hotkeys ≥≤
01:11 Hotkeys ≥.≤
01:12 Hotkeys it's a face
01:12 hahainternet i don't actually know how to type those
01:12 TimToady Hazim: for GUI, you probably want to learn C first, then C++
01:12 hahainternet ≤≥
01:12 hahainternet figured it out
01:12 Hotkeys yeah
01:12 hahainternet compose is quite intuitive
01:12 Hotkeys straightforward
01:12 hahainternet also TimToady is totally right, learn a bit of C, when you come to C++ recoil in horror and write Perl instead :D
01:12 Hotkeys haha
01:12 TimToady Hazim: in a year, Perl 6 will be better at GUI though
01:12 Hotkeys perl 6 is the universal language of the future
01:13 Hotkeys look out c#
01:13 Hotkeys and c++
01:13 uruwi[A] I would use perl6 bindings to native libraries more if they worked on Windows :S
01:13 TimToady well, our optimizer has to get a lot better to compete with C++
01:13 uruwi[A] ^
01:13 yeahnoob joined #perl6
01:13 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: no! Perl₆ is!
01:13 Hazim TimToday:  Ok i will wait, but when it will be released.
01:13 Hotkeys perfect name AlexDaniel
01:13 Hotkeys much better than Perlkeys
01:13 uruwi[A] I think some people would avoid it just for performance reasons, even if they don't need that extra speed
01:14 hahainternet for context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_operators_and_symbols_in_Unicode#Mathematical_Operators_block
01:14 hahainternet there's quite a few here i've no idea how to type
01:14 hahainternet quite a few of which could be reasonably adopted
01:14 uruwi To say that all of these will eventually have a use in Perl 6...
01:15 Hazim TimToday: And What About The Web Application, how Perl 6 Go with the web app.
01:15 Hotkeys
01:15 Hotkeys oh compose is wonderful
01:15 AlexDaniel hahainternet: set operations are already in, I guess
01:15 zengargoyle if you're on Linux-ish and really using XCompose (and not some other input method rip-off) : /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose
01:15 yoleaux 25 Nov 2015 16:18Z <TimToady> zengargoyle: yes, I decided to keep | where it was, and if we want a slipper at so/not precedence, call it something else, like "sl" or some such, but then its not really saving keystrokes over |(1..10)
01:17 Hotkeys also if you're using wincompose there is a gui thing for viewing
01:17 TimToady Hazim: we already have several Web modules on modules.perl6.org
01:17 AlexDaniel m: unit module Perl₆; sub foo { say ‘yeah!’ }
01:17 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/rGr7qTCFat␤Unable to parse module definition␤at /tmp/rGr7qTCFat:1␤------> 3unit module Perl7⏏5₆; sub foo { say ‘yeah!’ }␤    expecting any of:␤        generic role␤»
01:17 AlexDaniel noooo
01:17 zengargoyle if using something like iBus/SCIM/UIM might want to look into the rfc1345 input method also.
01:18 Hotkeys Σ would be attractive for sum
01:18 zengargoyle sadly, iBus doesn't really use XCompose, just a subset (and doesn't honor .XCompose customization :( )
01:18 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: well it seems like you managed to write a non-breaking space
01:19 Hotkeys I mightve hit compose a second time
01:19 uruwi Hotkeys, people will also want to use the Greek letter Σ too, then others will complain that they can't use it for variable names
01:19 Hazim TomToday: Thanks Man I Will Look To the Modules and Doc,
01:19 Hotkeys fair enough
01:19 salva joined #perl6
01:19 hahainternet interesting zengargoyle
01:19 hahainternet i have an ibus service installed
01:19 hahainternet but shift + altgr is my compose
01:19 hahainternet and i can't find set contains in the compose list :(
01:20 uruwi try compose I N
01:20 uruwi A ∈ B
01:20 Hotkeys
01:20 Hotkeys you tricked me
01:20 Hotkeys it was compose i n
01:20 hahainternet not for me it seems on debian, with either case
01:20 zengargoyle if you use iBus, compose keys are in sqlite database: /usr/share/ibus-table/tables/compose.db
01:20 uruwi What about the other set ops?
01:21 Hotkeys
01:21 Hotkeys compose n i
01:21 Hotkeys guessed that one
01:21 hahainternet zengargoyle: nothing on mine, and damn Hotkeys now i feel left out
01:21 uruwi wow
01:21 uruwi ∉ !in
01:21 hahainternet going to have to up my compose game on debian
01:21 uruwi ∌ /ni
01:22 uruwi ∌ /ni
01:22 Hotkeys
01:22 Hotkeys is compose { }
01:22 AlexDaniel ịn
01:22 uruwi {^ {u ∩ ∪
01:22 Hotkeys heh
01:22 hahainternet ∅ works for me but that's about it :(
01:22 zengargoyle Hotkeys: it's from ibus-table-compose package.
01:22 uruwi {( }) ⊂ ⊃
01:22 uruwi * {)
01:24 AlexDaniel <Multi_key> <leftshoe> <U0338> : "⊄"
01:24 Hotkeys
01:24 AlexDaniel I wonder what is “leftshoe”
01:24 Hotkeys it's the subset symbol
01:24 Hotkeys I assume
01:24 uruwi Probably what that symbol looks like
01:24 AlexDaniel how does it expect me to type it?
01:24 Hotkeys with compose I guess
01:24 AlexDaniel compose in compose?
01:24 Hotkeys I can do compose ! {(
01:25 AlexDaniel I've never tried that
01:25 Hotkeys I can do compose ! { (
01:25 Hotkeys no I mean
01:25 Hotkeys maybe it's a combination one
01:26 Hotkeys
01:26 AlexDaniel .u 0x0bda
01:26 yoleaux No characters found
01:26 AlexDaniel .u x0bda
01:26 yoleaux No characters found
01:26 AlexDaniel .u U+2282
01:26 yoleaux U+2282 SUBSET OF [Sm] (⊂)
01:26 AlexDaniel so that's a <leftshoe>
01:27 Hotkeys ah
01:27 Hotkeys is what I said :p
01:29 AlexDaniel weird, so it expects me to have this character on my keyboard. Not a problem, but it is a weird assumption
01:29 Hazim Goodbye and Have a nice day to all.
01:29 Hotkeys .u U+2276
01:29 yoleaux U+2276 LESS-THAN OR GREATER-THAN [Sm] (≶)
01:29 Hotkeys that's a neat sign
01:29 Hazim left #perl6
01:29 Hotkeys never actually seen that
01:30 Hotkeys .u U+2278
01:30 yoleaux U+2278 NEITHER LESS-THAN NOR GREATER-THAN [Sm] (≸)
01:30 Hotkeys wouldn't this be the same as '='
01:30 Hotkeys mathematically speaking
01:30 uruwi It would
01:30 Hotkeys just checking
01:30 uruwi Unless you're talking about JavaScript
01:30 * zengargoyle snorts
01:31 Hotkeys .u U+2272
01:31 yoleaux U+2272 LESS-THAN OR EQUIVALENT TO [Sm] (≲)
01:31 uruwi .u U+2277
01:31 yoleaux U+2277 GREATER-THAN OR LESS-THAN [Sm] (≷)
01:31 uruwi .u U+2279
01:31 yoleaux U+2279 NEITHER GREATER-THAN NOR LESS-THAN [Sm] (≹)
01:32 AlexDaniel what about LESS-THAN OR GREATER-THAN AND NEITHER LESS-THAN NOR GREATER-THAN ?
01:32 uruwi What about LESS-THAN AND GREATHER-THAN
01:32 uruwi .u U+2280
01:32 yoleaux U+2280 DOES NOT PRECEDE [Sm] (⊀)
01:32 Hotkeys but
01:32 Hotkeys but
01:32 Hotkeys my brain hurts
01:32 uruwi .u U+2273
01:32 yoleaux U+2273 GREATER-THAN OR EQUIVALENT TO [Sm] (≳)
01:32 uruwi .u U+2274
01:32 yoleaux U+2274 NEITHER LESS-THAN NOR EQUIVALENT TO [Sm] (≴)
01:33 Hotkeys .u U+227D
01:33 yoleaux U+227D SUCCEEDS OR EQUAL TO [Sm] (≽)
01:33 uruwi Hotkeys, please do not go into JavaScript
01:33 Hotkeys does javascript have these symbols
01:33 uruwi No
01:33 uruwi But comparisons are weird
01:33 salva joined #perl6
01:33 uruwi Such a shame, because JavaScript deserves to use them
01:34 uruwi JS U+2279 Java
01:34 Hotkeys what does less than and greater than even mean
01:34 uruwi It might not be false if you use an abysmal programming language
01:35 Hotkeys I like perl comparisons
01:35 Hotkeys specifically the ability to chain them
01:35 Hotkeys perl 6*
01:35 Hotkeys (never used 5)
01:35 * uruwi used bits of 5 for golfing
01:36 uruwi Mainly to improve on others' answers.
01:36 Hotkeys I did a bit of perl 6 golfing a few weeks ago
01:36 flussence joined #perl6
01:36 zengargoyle x is < and > y if x.succ < y and x.pred > y ?
01:36 Hotkeys it was never the shortest thanks to golf langs
01:36 Hotkeys but
01:36 Hotkeys but how zengargoyle
01:36 uruwi One of the shortest that isn't specifically designed for golf
01:37 uruwi Hotkeys: if some idiot designs a language that makes this sometimes true
01:37 uruwi of course
01:37 zengargoyle in some field that is not as rational numbers?
01:37 Hotkeys lol
01:37 zengargoyle there's some weird stuff out there in maths... :)
01:37 uruwi Maybe modular numbers?
01:37 Hotkeys maybe
01:37 Hotkeys I remember ordinal numbers blowing my mind
01:38 Hotkeys and the different kinds of infinite in general
01:39 Hotkeys er
01:39 Hotkeys infinity
01:41 uruwi Neither equal nor unequal
01:41 uruwi ?
01:41 Mouq OTOH, if ∞ = -∞, then ∞ ≶ 0 but ∞ ≠ 0
01:41 Hotkeys they aren't equal usually are they?
01:42 uruwi Nope
01:42 Mouq (NEITHER LESS-THAN NOR GREATER-THAN, assuming I copied the right symbol)
01:42 Hotkeys yeah
01:42 uruwi Wrong symbol
01:42 Hotkeys oh
01:42 Hotkeys right wrong one
01:42 Mouq Wait
01:42 uruwi Which is different from the wrong right one
01:43 Mouq all the wrongs
01:43 Hotkeys
01:43 Mouq vOv
01:43 Mouq nvm :)
01:43 uruwi I think the food they delivered us was laced with...
01:43 uruwi With...
01:43 Hotkeys I like this one
01:43 TimToady to me, ≸ looks like "incomparable" in a topological sort
01:43 Hotkeys
01:43 Hotkeys very much less than
01:44 Hotkeys .u ⋘
01:44 yoleaux U+22D8 VERY MUCH LESS-THAN [Sm] (⋘)
01:44 Hotkeys :D
01:44 uruwi ⋘←—
01:44 * TimToady always wonders, how much is "very"?
01:45 Hotkeys .u ≪
01:45 yoleaux U+226A MUCH LESS-THAN [Sm] (≪)
01:45 Hotkeys more than much apparently
01:45 uruwi Let a AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA b = a ⋘ b ∧ a ⋙ b
01:45 Hotkeys how to do the (not? or? I forget my logic symbols)
01:46 uruwi Compose slash yen
01:46 Hotkeys yen???
01:46 uruwi And it's an AND
01:46 * TimToady remembers using ⥁ and ⥀ for rotate right and left in a rosettacode entry...
01:46 uruwi Those should definitely be the symbols for rotation operators
01:46 Hotkeys I was close
01:46 Hotkeys apparently it's compose / \
01:46 Hotkeys
01:47 grondilu uruwi: it would not make it clear which is which
01:47 TimToady well, Japanese keyboards still confuse \ and ¥, I suspect
01:47 uruwi I said yen as a joke :P
01:47 Hotkeys oh you
01:47 Hotkeys okay lecture is over heading home
01:47 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
01:47 Hotkeys be back in ~45 minutes
01:48 uruwi m: say 62 ⟲ 5
01:48 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/npPQnj2Nbv␤Confused␤at /tmp/npPQnj2Nbv:1␤------> 3say 627⏏5 ⟲ 5␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤ …»
01:48 uruwi What about +<< and +>>
01:48 uruwi I can never remember: +< or <+
01:49 skids m: my %a; %a.VAR.WHAT.say; my %b::a; %b::a.VAR.WHAT.say
01:49 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(Hash)␤(Scalar)␤»
01:52 dayangkun joined #perl6
01:54 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
01:54 Zoffix joined #perl6
01:55 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
01:55 Zoffix Is it possible to alter what a call to {now} returns? I have code that will function different based on what time it is and I want to have some easy way to test it without changing my system time.
01:56 salva joined #perl6
01:56 uruwi m: sub now {return 1;}; say now;
01:56 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Instant:1448503031.478328␤»
01:56 uruwi Apparently now
01:56 uruwi not
01:57 grondilu maybe use the TZ env var?
01:57 Zoffix Guessing by the name it's a time zone?
01:57 grondilu m: say now; %*ENV<TZ>='Europe/Paris'; say now
01:57 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Instant:1448503100.303290␤Instant:1448503100.308322␤»
01:58 Zoffix Won't be enough. I need to go through about 30 periods of time between Dec 31, 2015—Jan 1, 2016
01:58 grondilu well it doesn't work
01:58 zengargoyle m: sub now() { 1 }; say now;
01:58 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Instant:1448503127.863511␤»
01:58 uruwi m: sub now {return 1;}; say now();
01:58 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤»
01:58 skids m: my constant now = "OHAI"; now.say; # hrm WTH is bare "now"
01:58 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Instant:1448503153.312523␤»
01:58 zengargoyle m: \now := 1; say now;
01:58 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/O21LvNel5B␤Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side␤at /tmp/O21LvNel5B:1␤------> 3\now := 17⏏5; say now;␤»
01:59 uruwi m: my \now = 1; say now
01:59 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Instant:1448503192.080633␤»
01:59 zengargoyle m: my \term:<now> := 1; say now;
01:59 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Instant:1448503202.164129␤»
01:59 uruwi You'll have to use a sub with a different name
01:59 zengargoyle lol
02:00 TimToady that's a bug, I think
02:00 TimToady testing a fix
02:00 zengargoyle m: my &now := sub { return 1 }; say now;
02:00 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Instant:1448503288.789749␤»
02:01 grondilu m: $*TZ=3600; say now; $*TZ=-18000; say now
02:01 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Int␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/B13ShpAEAA:1␤␤»
02:01 zengargoyle m: my &term:<now> := sub { return 1 }; say now;
02:01 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤»
02:01 zengargoyle bingo!
02:01 Zoffix not really
02:02 Zoffix m: my &term:<now> := sub { return 1 }; say DateTime.now;
02:02 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«2015-11-26T03:02:02+01:00␤»
02:02 Zoffix heh
02:02 Zoffix zengargoyle, thanks.
02:02 Zoffix I think I'll just use an env var (or one of those "dynamic variables" and in my code use a $*TEST_TIME // now
02:03 grondilu m: my $*TZ=3600; say now; my $*TZ=-18000; say now
02:03 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Redeclaration of symbol $*TZ␤    at /tmp/tmKHYytBs4:1␤    ------> 3my $*TZ=3600; say now; my $*TZ7⏏5=-18000; say now␤Instant:1448503418.146657␤Instant:1448503418.148529␤»
02:03 grondilu m: my $*TZ=3600; say now; $*TZ=-18000; say now
02:03 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Instant:1448503425.745172␤Instant:1448503425.749895␤»
02:03 grondilu meh
02:03 rwilson_py joined #perl6
02:04 AlexDaniel .u ⥀⟲
02:04 yoleaux U+27F2 ANTICLOCKWISE GAPPED CIRCLE ARROW [Sm] (⟲)
02:04 yoleaux U+2940 ANTICLOCKWISE CLOSED CIRCLE ARROW [Sm] (⥀)
02:04 zengargoyle m: my &now := sub { return 1 }; say now; use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class DateTime { sub now() { return 1; } }; say DateTime.now;
02:04 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Instant:1448503511.871252␤2015-11-26T03:04:35+01:00␤»
02:04 skids m: my $*TZ=3600; say DateTime.now; $*TZ=-18000; say DateTime.now;
02:04 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«2015-11-26T03:04:36+01:00␤2015-11-25T21:04:36-05:00␤»
02:04 AlexDaniel hahainternet: here is a crazy thought
02:05 AlexDaniel what if subscripts are only allowed in scalar names, but forbidden in array names. Then both parties are satisfied
02:05 zengargoyle m: my &term:<now> := sub { return 1 }; say now; use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class DateTime { sub now() { return 1; } }; say DateTime.now;
02:05 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤2015-11-26T03:05:42+01:00␤»
02:05 AlexDaniel it will not work on array references, but…
02:06 uruwi Too complicated now.
02:06 AlexDaniel well, not much. $x₂ and @x₂
02:07 zengargoyle m: my &term:<now> := sub { return 1 }; say now; use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class DateTime { method now() { return 1; } }; say DateTime.now;
02:07 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/5XpR5EcaoM␤Package 'DateTime' already has a method 'now' (did you mean to declare a multi-method?)␤at /tmp/5XpR5EcaoM:1␤»
02:08 AlexDaniel both are kinda DWIM, but yeah, not pretty
02:08 zengargoyle m: my &term:<now> := sub { return 1 }; say now; use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class DateTime { multi method now() { return 1; } }; say DateTime.now;
02:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot have a multi candidate for 'now' when an only method is also in the package 'DateTime'␤»
02:08 Zoffix m: say DateTime.new( $*TEST_TIME // now ).local.month
02:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«11␤»
02:08 Zoffix m: my $*TEST_TIME = 1428503546; say DateTime.new( $*TEST_TIME // now ).local.month
02:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«4␤»
02:09 Zoffix Sweet
02:09 zengargoyle m: my &term:<now> := sub { return 1 }; say now; use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class DateTime { proto method new { * }; multi method now() { return 1; } }; say DateTime.now;
02:09 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/y5Ntcfv0g_␤Package 'DateTime' already has a method 'new' (did you mean to declare a multi-method?)␤at /tmp/y5Ntcfv0g_:1␤»
02:09 Zoffix Gonna see how painful it is to do timezone stuff with P6 :P
02:09 Zoffix I never managed to Do It Right™ in P5.... always droves of bugs
02:14 Mouq m: my &term:<now> := sub { return 1 }; say now; class DateTime { method now() { return 1; } }; say DateTime.now; # :P
02:14 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤1␤»
02:18 Ben_Goldberg joined #perl6
02:19 xpen joined #perl6
02:24 hahainternet AlexDaniel: honestly i wouldn't mind either way, as long as it was something agreed upon
02:24 hahainternet for now TimToady says he doesn't want it in core so it'd be down to whichever module you used :)
02:26 AlexDaniel hahainternet: yeah right, if only it didn't affect the startup time so much.
02:29 Hotkeys Hello I made it home
02:30 Zoffix \o
02:33 Zoffix m: my \x = 42;  say x² - x² == x² - x²; say x*(x - x) == (x+x)*(x - x); my \z = (x - x); say x*z == (x+x)*z; # Therefore x == (x+x) or x == 2*x :)
02:33 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤True␤True␤»
02:34 Zoffix hmm.. Actually, in Perl 6 it just *might* be true due to rats
02:34 uruwi Divide by zero
02:34 Zoffix m: my \x = 42;  say x² - x² == x² - x²; say x*(x - x) == (x+x)*(x - x); my \z = (x - x); say x*z/0 == (x+x)*z/0;
02:34 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤True␤True␤»
02:34 * Zoffix lols
02:34 Zoffix this is epic :) We broke math
02:34 uruwi m: say 1/0
02:34 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Attempt to divide 1 by zero using div␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/yTpxMX7jvz:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/yTpxMX7jvz:1␤␤»
02:35 uruwi m: say 0/0
02:35 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Attempt to divide by zero using div␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/0RGdULBSyZ:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/0RGdULBSyZ:1␤␤»
02:35 uruwi m: say 1/0 == 2/0
02:35 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
02:35 Hotkeys 1/0.nude
02:35 Zoffix m: my \x = 42;  say x² - x² == x² - x²; say x*(x - x) == (x+x)*(x - x); my \z = (x - x); say x/0 == 2*x/0;
02:35 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤True␤True␤»
02:35 Hotkeys m: say 1/0.nude
02:35 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'nude' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tE6LHTO_KQ:1␤␤»
02:35 uruwi m: say 1/0.nude
02:35 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'nude' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/DRf5zpsy_r:1␤␤»
02:36 Hotkeys m: say (1/0).nude
02:36 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(1 0)␤»
02:36 Zoffix it's stored as denominator=>0/numerator=>0 stuff
02:36 Hotkeys I mean
02:36 Hotkeys the comparison isn't wrong in the context of rats
02:36 Hotkeys just isn't mathematically okay
02:36 Hotkeys :P
02:37 uruwi m: say (1/0 + 2/0).nude
02:37 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(3 0)␤»
02:37 Hotkeys haha
02:37 Zoffix I think this came up earlier and the decision was that is is ok :)
02:37 uruwi m: say (1/0 + 2).nude
02:37 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(1 0)␤»
02:37 Hotkeys seems fine to me
02:37 Zoffix 'cause you can do Lim(x/0) == Lim(2*x/0)
02:37 Zoffix or some such
02:37 Hotkeys it's still doing the fractional addition etc. correctly
02:38 Hotkeys you just gotta know
02:39 Hotkeys m: say (1/0).denominator != 0 ?? "okay" !! "not okay"
02:39 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«not okay␤»
02:39 kaare_ joined #perl6
02:39 Zoffix m: say (⅓+⅓+⅓).nude
02:39 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(1 1)␤»
02:39 psch Rats are kind of lazy div
02:39 Zoffix magical
02:40 pierre-vigier joined #perl6
02:40 psch i don't feel completely comfortable with that, fwiw
02:40 pierre-vigier joined #perl6
02:40 Hotkeys m: sub ok(Rat:D $n) { $n.denominator != 0 }; say ok 1/0;
02:40 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
02:41 psch m: sub ok(Rat:D $n) { $n.denominator != 0 }; say ok <1/0>.Rat
02:41 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
02:41 psch m: sub ok(Rat:D $n) { $n.denominator != 0 }; say ok <1/0>
02:41 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
02:41 psch RatStr probably coerces or somesuch vOv
02:41 psch m: say <1/0>.WHAT
02:41 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
02:41 psch eh, or i messed up how to build them :/
02:41 psch m: say < 1/0 >.WHAT
02:41 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(RatStr)␤»
02:41 psch there
02:41 psch m: sub ok(Rat:D $n) { $n.denominator != 0 }; say ok < 1/0 >
02:41 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
02:41 Hotkeys I didn't know those existed
02:41 Zoffix m: sub ok(Rat:D $n) { $n.denominator == 0 ?? "∞" !! $n }; say [ ok 1/0, ok 42/2 ];
02:41 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2␤  in sub ok at /tmp/Wd6r9Ev7rE:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Wd6r9Ev7rE:1␤␤»
02:42 psch Hotkeys: what?  RatStr?
02:45 Zoffix m: sub ok(Rat:D $n) { $n.denominator == 0 ?? "∞" !! $n }; say [ ok(1/0), ok(42/2) ];
02:45 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«[∞ 21]␤»
02:45 uruwi What's a RatStr?
02:45 Hotkeys ^
02:45 Hotkeys yeah
02:45 psch well
02:45 Hotkeys Zoffix: that isn't true though
02:45 psch the *Str types come from a place of "on the CLI everything is a String"
02:45 Zoffix Hotkeys, prove me wrong :P
02:45 uruwi Why have both?
02:45 psch (that is IntStr, RatStr and i think ComplexStr)
02:45 Hotkeys at a stretch you could say ±∞
02:45 Hotkeys but still not really
02:45 psch m: my $x = < 1/0 >; say $x.Str; say $x.Rat
02:45 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1/0␤Attempt to divide 1 by zero using div␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/lAGOHUaQ30:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/lAGOHUaQ30:1␤␤»
02:45 psch m: my $x = 1/0; say $x.Str
02:45 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Attempt to divide 1 by zero using div␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/wpklF989q1:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/wpklF989q1:1␤␤»
02:45 psch ^^^ that's one point where RatStr is useful
02:45 Zoffix m: sub ok(Rat:D $n) { $n.denominator == 0 ?? "∞" !! $n }; say [ ok(abs 1/0), ok(abs 42/2) ];
02:45 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«[∞ 21]␤»
02:45 Zoffix There. Fixed it :P
02:45 psch 'cause the RatStr (and IntStr and ComplexStr) knows the Str representation *without* evaluating the Rat (or Int or Complex) representation
02:45 * Zoffix might be getting delirious from perpetual lack of sleep.
02:45 Hotkeys I think you are
02:45 Hotkeys :p
02:45 psch m: say ComplexStr
02:45 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(ComplexStr)␤»
02:45 psch uruwi: does that help with "why have both?" :)
02:45 Hotkeys m: say (3 + 2i).Str; say (3 + 2i).ComplexStr
02:45 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«3+2i␤Method 'ComplexStr' not found for invocant of class 'Complex'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/b_R7w2Eh8r:1␤␤»
02:45 Zoffix m: say sqrt -1
02:45 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«NaN␤»
02:45 Zoffix :(
02:45 psch Hotkeys: no coercion type for those.  as i said, they come from either the CLI or from invoking &val on a Str
02:45 Hotkeys RatStr etc. don't exist on the docs.perl6.org site it seems
02:45 Hotkeys ah
02:45 psch m: say val "3 + 2i"
02:45 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«3 + 2i␤»
02:46 psch m: say (val "3 + 2i").WHAT
02:46 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
02:46 psch hm, maybe not in that form
02:46 psch m: say (val "3+2i").WHAT
02:46 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(ComplexStr)␤»
02:46 psch there
02:46 psch space are bad, cause the *Str types are for dense formes
02:46 psch -e
02:46 Hotkeys say (val 3 + 2i).WHAT
02:46 Hotkeys m: say (val 3 + 2i).WHAT
02:46 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Value of type Complex uselessly passed to val()  in block <unit> at /tmp/YfkctHCv6e:1␤(Complex)␤»
02:46 Zoffix m: say (2+1i).WHAT
02:46 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(Complex)␤»
02:46 Hotkeys rip
02:46 Zoffix cool.. I wonder how many langs have complex numbers out of the box
02:46 Hotkeys not a ton
02:46 uruwi Python
02:47 Zoffix aw :(
02:47 Hotkeys Factor
02:47 * Hotkeys plugs factor
02:47 * Hotkeys likes factor
02:47 * Zoffix never heard of Factor
02:47 Hotkeys It's a concatenative lang
02:47 psch "out of the box" in python means what?
02:47 psch 'cause < print(2i) > here complains :p
02:47 Hotkeys think Forth
02:47 Hotkeys but not
02:47 Hotkeys :p
02:48 Zoffix psch, seems like cmath module is needed: https://docs.python.org/2/library/cmath.html
02:48 uruwi Python uses j instead of i, though
02:48 psch ah, yeah that seems to work
02:48 Zoffix m: say (0/0)+(0+1i)
02:48 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Inf+1i␤»
02:48 psch somewhat loses meaning, though, considering j isn't i
02:48 Hotkeys Factor is fun but I never did anything serious with it
02:49 Zoffix This is kinda pushing it... (the Inf+1i)
02:49 psch ...not that i really mind that, fwiw
02:49 Hotkeys http://concatenative.org/wiki/view/Factor/Examples
02:49 uruwi Well, complex numbers itself exist, but you have to use cmath instead of math math
02:50 Zoffix m: say (0/0)+(0+1i)
02:50 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Inf+1i␤»
02:50 Hotkeys psch: it is sometimes
02:50 Hotkeys it's the other letter for the imaginary number
02:50 Zoffix .tell masak you seem to know math well. Does this make any sense or should it be throwing due to division by zero? m: say (0/0)+(0+1i) <camelia> rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Inf+1i␤»
02:50 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to masak.
02:50 psch Hotkeys: i haven't encountered it, but i'm also not particularly deep into formal math
02:50 Zoffix \o night all
02:51 psch Hotkeys: usually just arithmetic to check if i can pay for groceries :P
02:51 Hotkeys psch: it's used a lot in cases where there might be ambiguity
02:51 Hotkeys like when i denotes electric current
02:51 psch ISTR we used a capital i for current
02:51 psch in school that is
02:52 psch maybe that's unit vs dimension
02:52 Hotkeys I've seen both
02:52 psch well, not like it really matters :)
02:52 Hotkeys even on the wiki page they use i in an image of a current and I in the formulae
02:52 Hotkeys yeah
02:53 Hotkeys you could use ɨ if you wanted
02:53 Hotkeys or į
02:53 * Hotkeys is finding uses for compose
02:53 Hotkeys (just like https://xkcd.com/208/)
02:54 Zoffix m: say (0+i) == sqrt -1 # this is kinda disappointing
02:54 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
02:54 Hotkeys m: sqrt -1
02:54 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "sqrt -1" in expression "sqrt -1" in sink context (line 1)␤»
02:54 Hotkeys m: say sqrt -1
02:54 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«NaN␤»
02:54 khw joined #perl6
02:54 Hotkeys weird
02:54 psch m: say &sqrt.candidates>>.signatures
02:54 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Method 'signatures' not found for invocant of class 'Sub'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/3jv2zaTIot:1␤␤»
02:54 Hotkeys m: say sqrt -1 + 0i
02:54 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«6.12323399573677e-17+1i␤»
02:54 Hotkeys kek
02:54 psch m: say &sqrt.candidates>>.signature
02:54 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«((Numeric \x) (Cool \x) (num $a --> num))␤»
02:54 Hotkeys ComplexRat anyone?
02:55 Hotkeys m: say sqrt -1.Complex
02:55 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«6.12323399573677e-17-1i␤»
02:55 psch not sure an Int candidate is worth the dispatch trouble just for making sqrt -i work out
02:55 Hotkeys m: say sqrt (-1).Complex
02:55 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«6.12323399573677e-17+1i␤»
02:55 Zoffix m: say sqrt -1.0
02:55 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«NaN␤»
02:55 psch s/-i/-1/
02:55 Hotkeys looks like strong typing strikes again
02:55 Hotkeys or rather
02:56 Hotkeys yeah I guess
02:56 Hotkeys I'm tired
02:56 vendethiel joined #perl6
02:56 psch well, the problem is that you want to decide on the return type before evoking the sub
02:56 psch as in, you'd want a sqrt --> Complex
02:56 Hotkeys I know, it makes sense
02:56 Hotkeys for the same reason that my Rat $foo = 1; isn't okay
02:56 psch that's the path towards wantarray, fwiw :P
02:57 Hotkeys (I think?)
02:57 colomon yeah, making the sqrt of negative Reals NaN is very intentional.
02:57 Hotkeys m: my Rat $foo = 1;
02:57 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Er0UpQaYw8␤Cannot assign a literal of type Int (1) to a variable of type Rat. You can declare the variable to be of type Real, or try to coerce the value with 1.Rat or Rat(1), or just write the value as 1.0␤at /t…»
02:57 Hotkeys yeah okay
02:57 psch similar, yes, except Rat = 1 is more of a type system thing
02:57 Hotkeys just making sure I wasn't imagining things
02:57 Hotkeys same idea though
02:57 Zoffix colomon, why is it intentional?
02:57 Zoffix I mean, why not return a Complex?
02:57 Hotkeys Because in the reals there is no sqrt -1
02:58 psch while "i want a Complex from sqrt here but not everywhere" is a "let me change semantics of a function by changing the callsite" on top of that
02:58 psch ...kinda thing
02:58 colomon sqrt Real generates a Real
02:58 colomon sqrt Complex generates a Complex
02:58 Zoffix m: say NaN.WHAT
02:58 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
02:58 psch m: say sqrt 1i
02:58 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.707106781186548+0.707106781186547i␤»
02:59 Zoffix m: say sqrt (-1+i)
02:59 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.455089860562227+1.09868411346781i␤»
02:59 Zoffix m: say sqrt (-1+0i)
02:59 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«6.12323399573677e-17+1i␤»
02:59 Hotkeys I'm sad that you can't do
02:59 Hotkeys m: say i²;
02:59 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«-1+1.22464679914735e-16i␤»
02:59 Hotkeys WHAT
02:59 Hotkeys oh waiut
02:59 uruwi Floating point
02:59 Hotkeys my local build isn't up to date
02:59 Hotkeys no not that
02:59 Hotkeys I forgot to rebuild rakudo
02:59 Hotkeys to get superscripts
03:00 Zoffix m: say (sqrt -1).WHAT
03:00 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
03:00 Hotkeys wtb ComplexRat type
03:00 Zoffix OK.
03:00 uruwi What kind of representation is being used for complex numbers?
03:00 Hotkeys real + imaginary
03:00 psch uruwi: nums for real and imaginary
03:00 Hotkeys oh
03:00 Hotkeys oops
03:01 Hotkeys I misunderstood
03:01 uruwi Then what's with the funky errors?
03:01 psch Hotkeys: ComplexRat seems LHF-ish, not sure how to wire it up in a least-surprise way though
03:01 psch uruwi: which errors?
03:01 uruwi You're not by chance storing them in the form r^(e i θ)?
03:01 Zoffix psch, what's LHF?
03:01 Hotkeys LHF?
03:01 uruwi Rounding errors
03:01 psch Low Hanging Fruit
03:01 Hotkeys is that a good thing?
03:01 psch uruwi: num is native (i.e. IEE754) float
03:02 psch Hotkeys: it means "it should be easy to implement" :P
03:02 uruwi Yes, but why does (0+1i)**2 give -1 plus a small number i
03:02 Hotkeys ah
03:02 uruwi Shouldn't it work exactly to -1+0i?
03:02 BenGoldberg Because it's implemented in terms of sin and cos
03:02 uruwi I knew it
03:02 uruwi So you're doing intermediate conversions from rect to polar when you multiply
03:03 psch BenGoldberg++
03:03 Zoffix BenGoldberg++ :)
03:03 psch that's beyond my readily available math :)
03:03 Zoffix Once you go i you never get real again :)
03:03 uruwi BenGoldberg++
03:03 Hotkeys m: say 0.1e0 + 0.2e0 - 0.3e0;
03:03 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5.55111512312578e-17␤»
03:03 Hotkeys :D
03:03 Hotkeys yay floating points
03:04 AlexDaniel m: say 0/3 == 0/3
03:04 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
03:04 BenGoldberg When you multiply, no conversion to polar should be done.  When you exponentiate a complex, then a polar conversion does need to be done.
03:04 uruwi Fortunately you shouldn't have to resort to floating points often.
03:04 AlexDaniel m: say ↉ == 0/3
03:04 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
03:04 Hotkeys yeah
03:04 Hotkeys rats make it nice
03:04 uruwi Ah BenGoldberg
03:04 uruwi That's it
03:04 Hotkeys m: say 0.1 + 0.2 - 0.3;
03:04 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0␤»
03:04 Hotkeys :D
03:04 Zoffix m: say i * i;
03:04 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«-1+0i␤»
03:04 Zoffix w00t!
03:04 BenGoldberg 0.1 is a rat, not a float ;)
03:04 Zoffix BenGoldberg++ :)
03:04 Hotkeys nice
03:04 Hotkeys BenGoldberg: that's what I said
03:04 AlexDaniel m: say ⅒ == 0.1
03:04 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
03:05 AlexDaniel m: say ⅒⅒
03:05 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/LPfXgrERzW␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/LPfXgrERzW:1␤------> 3say ⅒7⏏5⅒␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier…»
03:05 uruwi m: say 0.1 == 0.1e0
03:05 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
03:05 BenGoldberg m: ⅒.perl.say
03:05 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.1␤»
03:05 Hotkeys m: say 0.1 === 0.1e0;
03:05 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
03:05 psch m: say 1e-1 ==  .1
03:05 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
03:05 psch ...probably cheating somewhere
03:05 Hotkeys I mean they have the same value
03:05 AlexDaniel m: say 0.33 == 0.33e0
03:05 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
03:06 Zoffix m: say i*i == i²;
03:06 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
03:06 Zoffix heh
03:06 Hotkeys m: say "0.3" == 0.3 == 3e-1;
03:06 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
03:06 Hotkeys wow
03:06 Hotkeys rude
03:06 uruwi Gets more annoying when you do have to actually compare two complex numbers
03:06 BenGoldberg m: say +"0.3"
03:06 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.3␤»
03:06 uruwi The Right Way™
03:06 AlexDaniel m: say i**2 == i²
03:06 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
03:06 Hotkeys m: say "0.3" == 0.3;
03:06 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
03:06 BenGoldberg m: (+"0.3").WHAT.say
03:06 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
03:07 Hotkeys m: say "0.3" == 3e-1;
03:07 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
03:07 psch uruwi: i have a hunch a lot of what we have with Complex is ground work, and there hasn't been a real world use-case yet
03:07 BenGoldberg m: (3e-1).WHAT.say
03:07 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
03:07 Hotkeys m: say 0.3 == 3e-1;
03:07 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
03:07 AlexDaniel .oO( poor camelia. Peaple are poking too much stuff into her today)
03:07 AlexDaniel people*
03:07 Hotkeys but then why does
03:08 Hotkeys m: say 0.1 == 1e-1;
03:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
03:08 Hotkeys work?
03:08 BenGoldberg Magic?
03:08 psch m: say 1e-1.fmt("%.15f")
03:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.100000000000000␤»
03:08 psch m: say 3e-1.fmt("%.15f")
03:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.300000000000000␤»
03:08 psch hrm
03:08 uruwi m: say 3e-1.fmt("%.18f")
03:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.300000000000000000␤»
03:08 Zoffix m: say 3e-1; say 1e-1
03:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.3␤0.1␤»
03:08 uruwi m: say 3e-1.fmt("%.21f")
03:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.300000000000000000000␤»
03:08 Zoffix :S
03:08 uruwi m: say 3e-1.fmt("%.99f")
03:08 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000␤»
03:09 psch m: my num $x = 3e-1; printf("%.21f", $x)
03:09 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.300000000000000000000»
03:09 uruwi m: say (1e-1+2e-1).fmt("%.99f")
03:09 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000␤»
03:09 uruwi What magic is this
03:09 Hotkeys haha
03:09 uruwi m: say (1e-1+2e-1-3e-1).fmt("%.99f")
03:09 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000␤»
03:09 Zoffix m: say (3e-1-.3).fmt("%.99f")
03:09 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.000000000000000055511151231257800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000␤»
03:09 Hotkeys lol
03:09 Zoffix There's your problem :)
03:09 Zoffix m: say (1e-1-.1).fmt("%.99f")
03:09 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000␤»
03:10 psch m:  printf("%.21f", 3e-1)
03:10 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.300000000000000000000»
03:10 psch m:  printf("%.40f", 3e-1)
03:10 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.3000000000000000000000000000000000000000»
03:10 psch ...i dont get it :P
03:10 Hotkeys me either
03:10 * psch shrugs and goes to sleep
03:10 Zoffix The ghost in the machine! :)
03:10 * Zoffix does the same
03:10 psch hf :P
03:10 pierre-vigier m: say (0.1+0.2-0.3).fmt("%.20f")
03:10 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.00000000000000000000␤»
03:10 AlexDaniel m: my $x = 0.3.Num; printf("%.40f", $x)
03:10 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.3000000000000000000000000000000000000000»
03:10 Hotkeys I don't know enough about computer math magic to diagnose this
03:10 AlexDaniel m: my $x = 0.3.Num; printf("%.90f", $x)
03:10 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000»
03:11 AlexDaniel why does it work? It should be “broken”
03:11 Mouq I'm late to the party, but Hotkeys:
03:11 AlexDaniel m: my $x = 0.31235612.Num; printf("%.90f", $x)
03:11 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.312356120000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000»
03:11 Mouq m: say (-1).roots(2)
03:11 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(6.12323399573677e-17+1i -1.83697019872103e-16-1i)␤»
03:11 AlexDaniel m: my num $x = 0.31235612.Num; printf("%.90f", $x)
03:11 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.312356120000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000»
03:12 Hotkeys m: say (-4).roots(2)
03:12 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(1.22464679914735e-16+2i -3.67394039744206e-16-2i)␤»
03:12 Hotkeys those rounding errors are mighty ugly
03:13 Mouq m: say (-4).roots(2)>>.round # taadaaaa :P
03:13 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(0+2i 0-2i)␤»
03:14 Hotkeys m: say (-4).roots(2)>>.round>>.say;
03:14 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0+2i␤0-2i␤(True True)␤»
03:14 gfldex m: say 0.3 == 3e-1, (0.3).WHAT, 3e-1.WHAT; # apples and oranges
03:14 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False(Rat)(Num)␤»
03:14 Hotkeys that's nicer
03:14 Hotkeys m: say (-4).roots(2)».round».say;
03:14 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0+2i␤0-2i␤(True True)␤»
03:14 Hotkeys excuse to use compose
03:16 Hotkeys now I can use » and « in my code
03:16 Hotkeys this is exciting
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03:18 Mouq m: say (-4).roots(2)>>.reals>>.Rat.map({.[0]+.[1]i})
03:18 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(0+2i 0-2i)␤»
03:18 uruwi Is there any simple way of expressing function composition?
03:19 Mouq I think we have an "of" operator
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03:19 Mouq .u COMPOSITION
03:19 yoleaux U+2384 COMPOSITION SYMBOL [So] (⎄)
03:19 yoleaux U+2A1F Z NOTATION SCHEMA COMPOSITION [Sm] (⨟)
03:19 yoleaux U+2A3E Z NOTATION RELATIONAL COMPOSITION [Sm] (⨾)
03:19 Mouq hrm
03:20 Mouq .u RING
03:20 yoleaux U+00C5 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH RING ABOVE [Lu] (Å)
03:20 yoleaux U+00E5 LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH RING ABOVE [Ll] (å)
03:20 yoleaux U+016E LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH RING ABOVE [Lu] (Ů)
03:20 adu Mouq: are you looking for center circle?
03:20 uruwi .u circle
03:20 yoleaux U+05AF HEBREW MARK MASORA CIRCLE [Mn] (◌֯)
03:20 yoleaux U+20DD COMBINING ENCLOSING CIRCLE [Me] (◌⃝)
03:20 yoleaux U+20E0 COMBINING ENCLOSING CIRCLE BACKSLASH [Me] (◌⃠)
03:20 uruwi .u center circle
03:20 yoleaux No characters found
03:20 Mouq Nope, it's U+2218 RING OPERATOR
03:20 geekosaur or
03:20 geekosaur .u composite
03:20 yoleaux No characters found
03:20 uruwi .u U+2218
03:20 yoleaux U+2218 RING OPERATOR [Sm] (∘)
03:20 Mouq But just o works actually
03:21 geekosaur ah, no, that is description, sigh
03:21 uruwi m: say (cos o sin)(2)
03:21 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/_Cx44avJQs␤Unsupported use of bare "sin"; in Perl 6 please use .sin if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument, or use &sin to refer to the function as a noun␤at /tmp/_Cx44avJQs:1␤------> 3say (c…»
03:21 uruwi m: say (&cos o &sin)(2)
03:21 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.614300282116482␤»
03:21 Hotkeys neat
03:21 uruwi m: say cos(sin(2))
03:21 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.614300282116482␤»
03:21 uruwi TIL.
03:21 Hotkeys m: say cos sin 2;
03:21 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.614300282116482␤»
03:22 Hotkeys parens are lame
03:22 adu yeah RING OPERATOR is function composition
03:24 uruwi .u ο
03:24 yoleaux U+03BF GREEK SMALL LETTER OMICRON [Ll] (ο)
03:24 uruwi .u ꙭ
03:24 yoleaux U+A66D CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER DOUBLE MONOCULAR O [Ll] (ꙭ)
03:24 adu you know what my favorite unicode symbol is?
03:24 uruwi What
03:25 uruwi .u ????
03:25 yoleaux U+1F363 SUSHI [So] (????)
03:25 uruwi ^ my favorite
03:25 adu .u U+1F432
03:25 yoleaux U+1F432 DRAGON FACE [So] (????)
03:25 adu .u U+1F409
03:25 yoleaux U+1F409 DRAGON [So] (????)
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03:26 adu .u U+1F4A9
03:26 yoleaux U+1F4A9 PILE OF POO [So] (????)
03:26 uruwi Don't know. Can't beat sushi.
03:26 uruwi And another:
03:26 uruwi .u ????
03:26 yoleaux U+1F440 EYES [So] (????)
03:27 pierre-vigier m: my &fct = &roots o &abs; say fct( -4 );
03:27 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/BiBH3l5noi:1␤␤»
03:27 Hotkeys lol pile of poo
03:27 pierre-vigier why??
03:27 Hotkeys because of roots
03:27 Hotkeys er
03:27 Hotkeys no
03:27 Hotkeys not that
03:27 Hotkeys uh
03:27 uruwi Poots?
03:27 pierre-vigier m: roots(4).sayu
03:27 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Vq030q5DMj␤Calling roots(Int) will never work with proto signature ($,)␤at /tmp/Vq030q5DMj:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5roots(4).sayu␤»
03:27 Mouq m: my &fct = &sqrt o &abs; say fct( -4 );
03:27 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«2␤»
03:27 pierre-vigier m: roots(4).say
03:27 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/63p5i5ychG␤Calling roots(Int) will never work with proto signature ($,)␤at /tmp/63p5i5ychG:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5roots(4).say␤»
03:27 Hotkeys oh
03:28 Hotkeys roots requires two
03:28 pierre-vigier hum, indeed
03:28 uruwi m: roots(4, 4).say
03:28 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(1.4142135623731+0i 8.65956056235493e-17+1.4142135623731i -1.4142135623731+1.73191211247099e-16i -2.59786816870648e-16-1.4142135623731i)␤»
03:28 Hotkeys as in
03:28 Hotkeys m:say 4.roots(4)
03:28 Hotkeys m: say 4.roots(4)
03:28 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(1.4142135623731+0i 8.65956056235493e-17+1.4142135623731i -1.4142135623731+1.73191211247099e-16i -2.59786816870648e-16-1.4142135623731i)␤»
03:28 Hotkeys or what uruwi did
03:28 pierre-vigier makes sense
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03:29 adu .u U+1F6BD
03:29 yoleaux U+1F6BD TOILET [So] (????)
03:30 pierre-vigier m: my &fct = &sqrt o &abs; say fct( -4 );
03:30 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«2␤»
03:30 Mouq m: my &fct = &roots o {.abs,2}; say fct( -4 ); # a compromise :)
03:30 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(2+0i -2+2.44929359829471e-16i)␤»
03:30 adu uruwi: anyways my favorite is a toss up between DRAGON and PILE OF POO
03:30 Hotkeys lol
03:31 Hotkeys I like pile of poo because it uses the word poo
03:31 Hotkeys compared to something more official like feces
03:31 uruwi SUSHI is one of mine because I like sushi
03:31 uruwi And also
03:31 uruwi .u ɬ
03:31 yoleaux U+026C LATIN SMALL LETTER L WITH BELT [Ll] (ɬ)
03:31 adu Hotkeys: although I think the Unicode consortium is required to add STREAM OF PISS for completeness
03:31 uruwi .u STREAM
03:31 yoleaux U+1F38F CARP STREAMER [So] (????)
03:32 uruwi How would that be depicted
03:32 uruwi And I think they'd opt for PEE instead
03:32 uruwi .u PEE
03:32 yoleaux U+1354 ETHIOPIC SYLLABLE PEE [Lo] (ፔ)
03:32 yoleaux U+15EB CANADIAN SYLLABICS CARRIER PEE [Lo] (ᗫ)
03:32 yoleaux U+333B SQUARE PEEZI [So] (㌻)
03:32 uruwi .u PISS
03:32 yoleaux No characters found
03:32 uruwi .u POO
03:32 yoleaux U+1434 CANADIAN SYLLABICS POO [Lo] (ᐴ)
03:32 yoleaux U+1435 CANADIAN SYLLABICS Y-CREE POO [Lo] (ᐵ)
03:32 yoleaux U+A576 VAI SYLLABLE POO [Lo] (ꕶ)
03:32 uruwi .u POOP
03:32 yoleaux No characters found
03:32 Hotkeys .u URINE
03:32 yoleaux U+1F755 ALCHEMICAL SYMBOL FOR URINE [So] (????)
03:32 uruwi .u SHIT
03:32 yoleaux U+1201F CUNEIFORM SIGN AK TIMES SHITA PLUS GISH [Lo] (????)
03:32 yoleaux U+121DD CUNEIFORM SIGN LAGAB TIMES SHITA PLUS GISH PLUS ERIN2 [Lo] (????)
03:32 yoleaux U+121DE CUNEIFORM SIGN LAGAB TIMES SHITA PLUS GISH TENU [Lo] (????)
03:33 adu uruwi: it doesn't exist, but the Unicode consortium is very concerned about completeness, that's why the next version is going to include MANTA RAY and SHARK
03:34 Hotkeys oh no Digest::MD5 still hasn't been fixed
03:34 Hotkeys for windows
03:34 adu Hotkeys: I know a lot about MD5, but nothing about windows
03:34 Hotkeys it's specifically due to newlines
03:35 adu oh, you mean \r\n?
03:35 Hotkeys basically because of the newline handling changes it expects a hash of a string with \n
03:35 Hotkeys and gets a hash of the string with \r\n
03:35 Hotkeys yep
03:35 adu the \r\n
03:35 adu are there two functions? like hash_binary and hash_string?
03:36 Hotkeys idk
03:36 Hotkeys I just know what's broken
03:36 adu that's how I would do it
03:36 Hotkeys I think there are though
03:36 adu have the hash_string normalize newlines, and hash_binary is the raw version
03:37 Hotkeys it isn't the choice of the functions
03:37 Hotkeys unless you specify with use newline <option>;
03:37 adu so you're saying there is a hash_string-ish function, and it's not working?
03:37 Hotkeys m: say "test\r\n"
03:37 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«test
03:37 Hotkeys er
03:37 Hotkeys m: say "test\r\n".perl
03:37 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«"test\r\n"␤»
03:37 Hotkeys m: say "test\n".perl
03:37 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«"test\n"␤»
03:37 Hotkeys I can't make it break right now
03:38 Hotkeys I'm bad at this
03:38 Hotkeys > say "\n".perl
03:38 Hotkeys "\r\n"
03:38 Hotkeys this is why it breaks
03:39 Hotkeys it tests the function with "Hello world\n"
03:39 Hotkeys but before it even gets to the function
03:39 Hotkeys it gets changed to \r\n
03:39 adu that's bad
03:40 Hotkeys well not entirely it's just that you have to expect it
03:40 Hotkeys and I think this was written before the handling change
03:40 Hotkeys you can specify that the newline is only \n
03:40 Hotkeys but you have to specify
03:40 Hotkeys with "use newline lf;"
03:40 Hotkeys I think that would fix this
03:40 Hotkeys but I'm not sure
03:41 Mouq Hotkeys: Try it and make a pull request :)
03:41 Hotkeys I guess so
03:41 * Hotkeys is lazy
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03:42 * Mouq is pretty sure Hotkeys spent more time trying to explain the problem than it would take to fix ;)
03:42 Hotkeys that is likely
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03:51 Hotkeys alright I pull requested
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03:53 Hotkeys meanwhile I installed the updated version locally
03:53 Hotkeys will the be the first time I
03:53 Hotkeys Task::Star will build for me?
03:55 Hotkeys the answer is yes
03:55 Hotkeys woo
03:55 Hotkeys I apologize for filling up everyones chats, I have a bad habit of talking in many lines
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04:15 lucs What would correspond to Perl5's  \K  in regexes?  (searched for 'keep' in S05, but found nothing relevant)
04:19 Mouq lucs: )>
04:20 lucs Um, not sure what you mean.
04:20 Mouq m: "abcdefg" ~~ /abc)>defg/; say $/
04:20 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«「abc」␤»
04:20 Mouq m: "abcdefg" ~~ /a<(bc)>defg/; say $/
04:20 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«「bc」␤»
04:20 lucs Aha. Thanks.
04:20 Mouq m: "abcdefg" ~~ /a<(bcdefg/; say $/
04:20 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«「bcdefg」␤»
04:22 dalek rakudo/nom: d3c278d | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
04:22 dalek rakudo/nom: allow override of terms self/now/time
04:22 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d3c278d34e
04:24 uruwi kok!
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04:33 TimToady m: my \now = 1; say now
04:33 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤»
04:34 TimToady unfortunatly, couldn't use that on rand, since there's a &rand function
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04:44 ShimmerFairy TimToady: somehow, a random inconsistency in the allowed overrides feels appropriate for 'rand' :P
04:48 TimToady that was a randim comment :P
04:48 FROGGS joined #perl6
04:49 TimToady well, a rnddim comment, anyhoo...
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06:10 grondilu probably a typo in recent commit or something:
06:11 grondilu make: /usr/locale/bin/moar: Command not found
06:11 grondilu "locale"?
06:11 grondilu oh wait, it's my Configure.pl line that has it
06:11 pierre-vigier joined #perl6
06:12 * grondilu must haved type 'e' by mistake before entering the command
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07:36 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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07:48 TimToady had a bit of a hiccup with freenode, apparently, and wondering if anyone else had trouble getting through over the last hour or so...
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07:50 nine TimToady: there were lots of netsplits
07:50 TimToady I couldn't even reconnect for a long time
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07:50 TimToady and I noticed dalek stopped reporting
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07:57 moritz_ TimToady: I'm restaring the IRC component from dalek
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07:59 moritz_ Nov 26 07:59:24 hack systemd[12488]: Failed at step EXEC spawning /home/dalek/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-5.20.1/bin/perl: Resource temporarily unavailable
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07:59 moritz_ whatever that means
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08:03 nine moritz_: seems like its running into some ulimit
08:05 moritz_ Connect to freenode failed, retry in 30 secs
08:05 moritz_ if I start it manually
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08:08 moritz_ but why would it run into a ulimit now, when it worked fine all the time before?
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08:11 moritz_ LimitNPROC=5 in the service file seemed to have caued the error
08:11 moritz_ bumping it up to 8 helped
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08:13 moritz_ the http process runs with 5 workers; that might be a tiny bit overkill
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08:25 hahainternet moritz_: 5 workers is small time
08:25 hahainternet and yes that error is as you spotted
08:26 hahainternet but for a webserver, max numproc should be more like ~200, although maybe i'm just used to lots of horizontal scaling
08:26 moritz_ hahainternet: the http component receives a github web hook every few minutes or hours
08:26 moritz_ hahainternet: there's simply no need for more than one or two workers
08:27 moritz_ hahainternet: and since this is a very shared server, I like to limit my services very much
08:27 hahainternet oh! i assume this was for the new perl modules site or similar :)
08:27 moritz_ no :-)
08:27 hahainternet moritz_: well if the EXEC is actually a fork, you can fork as much as you like
08:27 hahainternet as most of the ram is COW
08:27 hahainternet unless you are one of those crazy cats that turns off overcommit
08:28 moritz hahainternet: well, I limited the number of processes via systemd container/slice fu
08:28 hahainternet also, you're on my list of people to thank for writing awesome articles, but i can't remember which article
08:28 hahainternet so thanks in general!
08:28 hahainternet something i saw had your name on it though
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08:30 moritz hahainternet: you're welcome :-)
08:30 moritz hahainternet: usually at http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/ or on the perl 6 advent calendar
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08:30 hahainternet moritz: advent has been a staple of my christmas for many years
08:31 hahainternet i've been meaning since last year to get more involved, but it's hard to find time
08:31 Hotkeys I'm excited for this years advent
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08:37 hahainternet https://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/rsz_img_0661.jpg
08:37 hahainternet ok that's pretty cool
08:37 hahainternet free computer with magazine
08:37 hahainternet we're officially in the future
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08:43 Hotkeys "Today, I’m pleased to be able to announce the immediate availability of Raspberry Pi Zero, made in Wales and priced at just $5."
08:43 Hotkeys neat
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08:43 hahainternet $5 is a really superb price point
08:43 hahainternet that's less than i have paid for esp8266s
08:44 hahainternet and they're significantly less of a computer than an rpi
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08:48 lizmat good *, #perl6!
08:48 nine Hi lizmat!
08:48 lizmat nine o/
08:48 Tux__ o/
08:48 Ven \o
08:49 lizmat Tux__ Ven o/
08:49 nine I wonder what people see as requirement for merging curli
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08:52 lizmat personally, I think having the stuff in lib be installed using curli ?
08:52 lizmat and having panda just work (TM)
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08:53 hahainternet oh that reminds me, i have to see if i'm behind on Linenoise
08:54 hahainternet cause it doesn't work so well with some unicode glyphs
08:54 lizmat hmmm... new unicode plans that may affect NFG: http://blog.unicode.org/2015/11/new-character-property-for-prepended.html
08:54 |Tux| No such method 'context' for invocant of type 'Inline::Perl5::Perl6Callbacks'
08:54 |Tux| in method invoke-parent at /pro/3gl/CPAN/Text-CSV6/.panda-work/1448527967_1/lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6:503
08:54 |Tux| in block  at /pro/3gl/CPAN/Text-CSV6/.panda-work/1448527967_1/lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6:991
08:54 |Tux| in block <unit> at t/v6.t:19
08:54 |Tux| Inline::Perl5 fail
08:55 lizmat if I scanned these unicode plans correctly, it would mean that the base codepoint of a synthetic would no longer be always the first codepoint
08:56 hahainternet yeah linenoise still problematic, enter ² and then try and backspace over it
08:56 hahainternet don't know where i'd file this
08:58 |Tux| test             50000    22.252    22.142
08:58 |Tux| test-t           50000    20.041    19.931
08:58 |Tux| csv-parser       50000    27.576    27.466
08:58 hahainternet https://github.com/antirez/linenoise/issues/25
08:58 Hotkeys works fine for me I think
08:58 Hotkeys in the repl
08:58 hahainternet interesting, this is in tmux
08:58 hahainternet lets try in a bare term
08:59 Hotkeys I'm using windows and powershell
08:59 hahainternet ah, fails with regular gnome-terminal
08:59 hahainternet this issue is still open and no sign of merged fixes, so i'm going to blame the backing library
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09:06 nine lizmat: both are already done
09:06 lizmat nine++
09:07 lizmat I'm afraid I'm not going to backlog the past 2 weeks: hoping for a P6W soon to get me up to speed again
09:13 lizmat .tell jnthn the test fail in t/spec/S32-hash/adverbs.t seems to be caused by a MMD issue that only happens when running under the t/harness
09:13 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
09:14 lizmat .tell jnthn line 58 to be precise
09:14 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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09:27 lizmat afk for a few hours&
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09:47 Zoffix Wait what... they make $5 computers in Whales? 0.o
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09:50 nine Well you can build complete GSM phones for < $12, so it's not that surprising
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10:01 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 52edb30 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (2 files):
10:01 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Implement --interval option
10:01 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder:
10:01 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: defaulting to 5 seconds allows us to stay under GitHub"s rate limit of 5,000reqs/hr when builder is run continuously (Closes #36)
10:01 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/52edb30ad8
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10:03 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 1c800f7 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | build-project-list.pl:
10:03 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: --github-token-file option must take an argument and not be a boolean
10:03 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/1c800f70a7
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10:41 scopesoft Just downloaded the latest Perl6 using rakudobrew and wrote a simple program that pushed a million floating point numbers (which where calculated), onto a list and then re-read the list checking the values. With perl6 this took 24s, perl5 took 0.2s, with D 0.04s. Taking away the floating point calculation and simply pushing integers on the list the perl6 time was reduced to 4s. I'm hoping performance will improve before the release at Christmas.
10:43 * Zoffix quotes self from another channel...
10:43 nine scopesoft: very unlikely. Until the release it's all about making things correct so people may depend on the behavior. I guess pretty much everyone is very much looking forward to working on performance after the release :)
10:43 Zoffix "I wouldn't hold breath for Christmas. There are lots of more important things to take care. Optimization will come later on :)"
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10:45 scopesoft Given that there will probably be a large interest in this release, not only in the Perl domain it could be the final nail in the Perl 6 coffin, even before it's got off the ground.
10:47 arnsholt Shit being flat out wrong would be a nail in the coffin
10:48 arnsholt Making something fast before it's right is completely pointless
10:48 * mrf_ would much prefer a reliable language that can get faster that a fast language that will always change
10:48 Zoffix scopesoft, we'll put a sticker on it "It's still slow. Patches welcome" :)
10:49 Zoffix scopesoft, and I think allusions to coffins are overly pessimistic. It's a brand new language. It's a bit silly comparing it to Perl 5 that had more than a decade to optimize itself :)
10:49 scopesoft That would be true in normal situations, but we've been waiting years for Perl 6, and when we finally get a date for a release, it's not a teeny bit slower than Perl 5 but light years slower
10:50 Zoffix scopesoft, the above statement ignores the fact that Perl 6 is no longer an "update" to Perl 5. It's a brand new language now.
10:50 scopesoft But comparisons will be made not only with Perl 5, but Ruby, Python, etc.
10:51 Zoffix scopesoft, sure. I don't see a problem with that.
10:51 Zoffix scopesoft, those langs are 20 years old. Perl 6 doesn't have a "stable" release yet.
10:51 Zoffix scopesoft, we have a FAQ entry on speed, if you'd like to peruse it: http://doc.perl6.org/language/faq#Is_Perl_6_fast_enough_for_me%3F
10:53 Zoffix scopesoft, you could also give a helping hand with optimization, if you can: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/   https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/
10:53 scopesoft Zoffix: Thanks for the link.
10:53 Zoffix We use a modern compiler, so optimization is definitely possible. We just haven't gotten to it, yet.
10:57 DrForr_ Welcome to instant gratification. It's about to be released, so of course it must be perfect. Oh, no, it's not? Forget about it.
10:58 Zoffix I also want it to make pancakes!
10:58 scopesoft The reason I've brought this up, is due to a conversation I had with a mate this morning who writes a lot of Perl, but he said to he's not looking at Perl 6 at all, stay away from it, look at other languages such as Javascript. The company he works at are moving from Perl 5 to PHP !!! A Christmas release of Perl 6 which Larry has pre-announced with great fan-fare, with this sought of simple test will mean there is no chance it will be ever considered as an
10:58 Zoffix :S javascript? :S
10:59 DrForr_ So the company is moving to PHP. Ergo he isn't interested in Perl 6. WHAT A SHOCKER.
10:59 scopesoft Recently I've done some work at the BBC and every time Perl or Perl 6 was mentioned it was just ridiculed.
10:59 Zoffix scopesoft, well, first, I think PHP will lose quite a bit of its popularity since Wordpress is moving to node.js, so many companies who decide to use that objectively horrible language will have fewer reasons to do it.
11:00 Zoffix scopesoft, and so far you offered few reasons to think Perl 6 is ill-fated from the start. Your Perl 5-coder mate told you not to look at it? C'mon.
11:00 scopesoft DrForr: he's supporting the Perl legacy code at the moment
11:00 Zoffix scopesoft, Perl 6 has one of the most advanced object models and concurrency support among modern langs. It's a bit silly to say it's ill-fated just because your mate says so.
11:01 Zoffix Plus, this works:
11:01 Zoffix m: say ⅓²
11:01 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.111111␤»
11:01 Zoffix ^_^
11:01 DrForr_ I could have used that during a talk a few months ago.
11:01 Zoffix DrForr_, the powers are brand new. Added just last night :)
11:02 DrForr_ I know, saw on FB.
11:02 arnsholt That's more of a novelty thing. More useful, IMO, is this:
11:02 scopesoft Given my experience of management in companies they will simply look at such results and base the decision on this. Other languages have OO, are functional, etc Even D is a serious contender
11:02 arnsholt m: say 3*0.3 == 0.9 ?? "equal" !! "not equal"
11:02 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«equal␤»
11:04 DrForr_ scopesoft: perl5 was slow when it first came out too, as was Ruby, Python and whatever languages you choose to name. If they're that short-sighted then they're .. well, typical management.
11:04 Zoffix m: sleep 1 for ^4 .hyper(:batch(1)); say now - INIT now
11:04 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1.0103883␤»
11:04 DrForr_ Perl5 has had 20 years of optimization to the point where it beats C in some cases. Perl 6 hasn't had 20 years of production yet.
11:04 Zoffix scopesoft, ^ four concurrent 1-second sleeps finish in 1 second
11:04 mrf m: say ⅓² * 9
11:04 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤»
11:06 mrf ^ Only modern language to get this right
11:06 DrForr_ In other words, do *not* confuse release with production.
11:06 arnsholt mrf: Well, Common Lisp gets it mostly right too, to be fair =)
11:06 DrForr_ *cough* modern :)
11:07 mrf mostly isn't really good enough. 0.999999 is mostly right
11:07 Zoffix heh
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11:07 arnsholt mrf: Mostly right in that decimal literals are still floating point arithmetic, not rats
11:07 arnsholt Division creates rats though
11:08 arnsholt DrForr_: If we're talking features, CL is pretty damn modern though (except the syntax, of course, which is atrocious =)
11:08 mrf arnsholt: thats fair.
11:08 mrf The Biologist in me would have killed for a language that could have done accurate maths
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11:09 DrForr_ arnsholt: I know, but perception...
11:09 arnsholt DrForr_: I know, I know =)
11:09 arnsholt But CL and Perl 6 are actually very similar, IMO
11:11 Woodi hallo today :)
11:11 Zoffix \o
11:11 mrf Hello yesterday
11:11 Woodi mrf: can you give few examples/requirements ?
11:11 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: a41ca4e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist (5 files):
11:11 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Implement TravisCI PostProcessor
11:11 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/a41ca4e2b7
11:12 mrf Woodi: ?
11:12 Woodi ...of precise math
11:12 mrf m: say ⅓² * 9
11:12 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤»
11:12 Woodi looks exact...
11:13 mrf yes which is awesome. when I was doing BioInfo at uni most languages would give 0.9999 for that which is really annoying
11:13 mrf (including calculators in some cases)
11:14 Woodi but do biology curently lack high performance & prcise programming language ?
11:15 mrf Most biologists use either Perl5, Python or Go.
11:15 mrf There are hacks and libraries in all of these to make things mostly work but its a PITA
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11:18 ab6tract o/ #perl6
11:18 Woodi mrf: sorry for torturin you more but any idea for something better ? like some high level/specialized data types or other things ?
11:18 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 3c23291 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source.pm:
11:18 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Handle strings in "authors" meta (closes #41)
11:18 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/3c232919be
11:20 Zoffix m: say 0/0 + i
11:20 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Inf+1i␤»
11:20 Zoffix :)
11:21 grondilu_ m: say 0/0
11:21 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Attempt to divide by zero using div␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/AxNT1KvhAd:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/AxNT1KvhAd:1␤␤»
11:22 mrf Woodi: Its not something I have been involved in since Uni. As I understand it the maths in perl 6 is ideal as it gives accurate values and can thus be relied upon. I certainly would recommend a better outreach to the biological community in particular though
11:22 mrf Coor vectors would be really handy for atom mapping in 3d space
11:23 DrForr_ We have quaternions available :)
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11:24 grondilu (and geometric algebra)
11:24 Woodi I saw lastly discusions about Rakudo 6.c guessed performance... so, first: in "official" communication there is no need to mention "slowness", concentrate on good parts like correctness or niceness, etc.
11:25 * mrf will investigate protein modeling in p6
11:25 Woodi mrf: biology and atoms and 3D, wow :)
11:27 ab6tract .tell jnthn i had a color to add to the supply/distribute naming .. what about receive / transmit ?
11:27 yoleaux ab6tract: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
11:28 mrf Woodi: http://predictioncenter.org/
11:28 ab6tract .tell jnthn it has the advantage of conjuring to mind networks / radios / communication vs economics :)
11:28 yoleaux ab6tract: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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11:30 ab6tract scopesoft: regarding performance.. you should really consider the historical performance trends for rakudo
11:30 ab6tract when you can see all that has happened with performance *without even focusing one it*, i think you will get a better picture of where perl 6 can go after the language is finalized
11:31 ab6tract *on it
11:31 Woodi second: Rakudo is not very slow anymore. 30 x perl5 2 months ago (without jit) is "modern" :) and if you check benchmarks then perl5 is 90+ times slower then C# (Mono), sometimes perl5 wins 4 times...
11:31 Zoffix Woodi, I disagree. It's the most straightforward comparison you can do to other languages, so I'd expect people to do that right away. And *being surprised* by the slowness might lead to wrong reaction. Sure, it makes sense for first release to be not-optimized, but people—especially language zealots—will take the announcement as "Perl 6 is ready to replace your favourite language X". We don't need to say "it's slow" but we should mention that opti
11:31 Zoffix mization will be the next step.
11:31 ab6tract we should also probably compile a list of "known slows"
11:32 Zoffix 1) html parsing
11:32 Zoffix 90s vs ~0.8s in P5 on a test pagew
11:33 ab6tract m: my $start=now; my int $x = 0; while $x < 5_000_000 { $x += 1}; say "{now - $start} seconds"
11:33 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«3.7304304 seconds␤»
11:33 Woodi Zoffix: I was talking there about official communications/texts. this is like candidating for president position - you not need to make trobles to yourself :)
11:33 ab6tract hm.... i had a nested set of native int while loops which would finish more than 2 or 3 times faster than perl 5
11:34 crux m: say (-1+0i)**0.5
11:34 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«6.12323399573677e-17+1i␤»
11:34 ab6tract ah, crap, that's containerizing, right?
11:35 ab6tract m: my $start=now; my int $x = 0; while $x < 5_000_000 { $x = $x + 1}; say "{now - $start} seconds"
11:35 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0.0311954 seconds␤»
11:35 Woodi mrf: looking
11:35 ab6tract yeah, there we go
11:35 mrf Woodi: no need to really. Just an example of how important protein folding prediction is in BioInfo
11:36 ab6tract scopesoft: start doing some while loops with native ints and you can see that the performance "bottom" for perl 6 can really beat perl 5 significantly. the core devs just can't finalize the interior decorating *and* rewire the engine at the same time when there is a deadline looming
11:37 dalek doc: ba5c2f0 | (Steve Mynott)++ | doc/Language/faq.pod:
11:37 dalek doc: move immutable in p5 example ... oops
11:37 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ba5c2f066d
11:38 ab6tract (in my opinion this native int while loop examples should be used as a counterpoint in our "we know it's slow but we can make it better" ... it's visceral, *extant* proof that the gradual typing thing can deliver
11:39 * Zoffix has no idea what use those native ints have
11:39 ab6tract Zoffix: that's not the point.
11:39 ab6tract the point is the same language is capable of doing something 1000 times as fast
11:39 ab6tract the same thing, from the programmer's perspective
11:40 ab6tract so the only reason Int $x doesn't do it as fast as int does is because that hasn't been wired into the optimizer
11:40 ab6tract most benchmarks are inanely arbitrary
11:41 ab6tract sorry, 100x
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11:42 Woodi mrf: nice pictures I can "understand" ;) but also found something about machine learning, do we have something about this in modules ?
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11:43 mrf No that I am aware of. It has however been at least 5 years since I last looked at anything like this.
11:43 mrf (There is usually at least a $5k prize each time for the best prediction model)
11:44 Zoffix $5k?
11:44 * Zoffix sets out to release Bio::Machine
11:45 arnsholt The only ML module I'm aware of is my currently-broken Viterbi decoder for HMMs
11:45 bjz joined #perl6
11:45 Zoffix Interesting this topic came up. Toronto Perl Mongers just had a "Machine Learning" meeting last night. I'm yet to watch the vid
11:45 mrf P5 has/had BioPerl which was popular at one time. NumPy is fairly big for lots of things
11:45 * Woodi have book about machine learning but it was boring becouse only one topic there was statistical function regression...
11:46 arnsholt Woodi: That's literally what machine learning is all about though
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11:46 arnsholt There are a couple of exceptions (decision trees, for example), but apart from that it's all regression
11:48 mrf DrForr_: did you get anywhere with social. Still not seen anything!
11:49 Woodi arnsholt: this not sound very complicated but applications like hand writing recognition are very futuristic :) or maybe not any more...
11:50 DrForr_ Um, I still have to go through emails. I was buried doing proposals the night before last and just needed to crash last night.
11:50 DrForr_ And again, given that LPW is happening practically next week I'm not *too* concerned.
11:51 mrf DrForr_: fair
11:53 DrForr_ Plus I do have some semiserious shopping to do anyhoo :)
11:54 mrf Thats cool. just planing my weekend as I don't live in London so need to know if I will be travelling
11:54 mrf If not I can go hack in brighton
11:57 DrForr_ No interest in the social apparently, which is cool.
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12:16 dalek rakudo/shaped_nonnative_typed_arrays: 131367c | timotimo++ | src/core/Array.pm:
12:16 dalek rakudo/shaped_nonnative_typed_arrays: teach TypedArray about shapes
12:16 dalek rakudo/shaped_nonnative_typed_arrays: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/131367c7da
12:18 Woodi ok, deep learning is more complicated :)
12:19 * moritz is a shallow learner
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12:24 jnthn afternoon, #perl6
12:24 yoleaux 09:13Z <lizmat> jnthn: the test fail in t/spec/S32-hash/adverbs.t seems to be caused by a MMD issue that only happens when running under the t/harness
12:24 yoleaux 09:14Z <lizmat> jnthn: line 58 to be precise
12:24 yoleaux 11:27Z <ab6tract> jnthn: i had a color to add to the supply/distribute naming .. what about receive / transmit ?
12:24 yoleaux 11:28Z <ab6tract> jnthn: it has the advantage of conjuring to mind networks / radios / communication vs economics :)
12:25 jnthn You don't actively receive in a push model though. Stuff just happens to you. :)
12:25 jnthn lizmat: There's a test fail in adverbs.t? :)
12:25 * jnthn didn't know that :)
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12:28 timotimo RIP hard drive ?!?!
12:30 timotimo nope. unplugging and re-plugging helped
12:30 lizmat hi jnthn
12:31 nine jnthn: adverbs.t has been failing for weeks here
12:31 lizmat the thing is, it only fails inside the harness.  since it is a subtest, I'm not sure *what* fails there
12:31 jnthn OK. I've not seen it fail at all here
12:31 lizmat m: my %h = a => 42; say %h<a>:zop
12:31 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'zop' passed␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/H4M6nAaRM3:1␤␤»
12:31 lizmat that;s the expected failure...
12:32 lizmat since the test is a throws-like on Exception
12:32 lizmat it would seem to me code *doesn't* fail
12:32 lizmat *the
12:32 jnthn Maybe valgrind it.
12:33 lizmat not really an option on OSX afaik
12:33 jnthn Nor Windows ;)
12:33 lizmat then I saw RT #126655
12:33 jnthn lizmat: Will you be about still in 20 mins or so?
12:33 lizmat yup
12:33 * jnthn wants lunch, but wants to ask something about Test::TAP too :)
12:33 jnthn ok, cool
12:33 jnthn bbs then
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12:47 timotimo lizmat: i think that comes from having to recompile the .c portions of rakudo
12:48 timotimo wait
12:48 timotimo i totally misread that
12:48 lizmat I was wondering  :-)
12:48 timotimo anyway. there's a test about typed shaped arrays that doesn't seem quite right
12:48 timotimo it expects to be able to push and pop a my @foo[5] of Int
12:48 lizmat well, this is a simpler test:
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12:49 lizmat m: use Test; my %h = a => 42; throws-like '%h<a>:zop', Exception
12:49 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«    1..2␤    ok 1 - '%h<a>:zop' died␤    ok 2 - right exception type (Exception)␤ok 1 - did we throws-like Exception?␤»
12:49 lizmat so this can only fail if the code didn't fail, or threw something other than Exception
12:50 lizmat both are weird
12:53 * timotimo fixed his desktop somewhat
12:58 timotimo m: my @foos[5] of Int = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; say @foos.pop; say @foos.perl
12:58 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5␤Array[Int].new(1, 2, 3, 4)␤»
12:58 timotimo ^- this only worked because the shape was ignored
12:59 timotimo hmm
12:59 timotimo where is that test that was blowing up with my changes?
12:59 jnthn You can't .pop a shaped array
12:59 jnthn Not until we support * in a shape, which we won't in 6.c
12:59 timotimo right, "jagged arrays"
12:59 jnthn So the best is le wrong.
12:59 timotimo good to know! :)
13:00 jnthn uh, test
13:05 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 8ba0fa8 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib-db-builder/P6Project (5 files):
13:05 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Sayōnara old db builder classes
13:05 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/8ba0fa8422
13:07 jnthn lizmat: So, in Test::Tap there's this line:
13:07 jnthn for ^$timeout { last if $done or $s.done; sleep .1 }
13:07 jnthn I can't figure out what $s.done is about there.
13:07 jnthn It's a method not found error now.
13:07 jnthn But before it would have been...well, I don't even really know. :)
13:07 lizmat ah, I think a thinko
13:07 jnthn Whether we'd tapped done?
13:08 jnthn OK, but just removing it gives me a bunch of hangs
13:08 lizmat no, whether the tap was done
13:08 jnthn Ah
13:08 lizmat sorry, whether the supply was done
13:08 lizmat as in: had a .done on it
13:08 lizmat so, this is just bad, I think
13:08 jnthn But since we .tap it with &done always?
13:08 jnthn OK
13:08 jnthn The other thing is
13:08 jnthn We used .append in various places
13:08 lizmat hmmm....
13:09 jnthn Which made supplies magically flatten things
13:09 jnthn I've changed them for .push
13:09 lizmat fwiw, I have no memory of changing them to append
13:09 jnthn So I think some test regressions may be about that too
13:09 jnthn I don't think you did
13:09 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 8a1be68 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder.pm:
13:09 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Handle fatal errors for each dist
13:09 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/8a1be683c9
13:09 jnthn I think TimToady steamrollered through CORE.setting doing so :)
13:10 lizmat so, yes...  change them as you see fit  :-)
13:10 lizmat I mean, they were originally per-GLR pushes
13:10 lizmat *pre
13:10 lizmat afaict
13:10 jnthn I can't remember what pre-GLR push actually did ;)
13:11 jnthn But yeah, post-GLR having emit @foo magically flatten feels like a bad idea
13:11 lizmat to come back to $s.done in Test::Tap: that is intended to check whether the supply is done *without* using the normal ways of checking
13:11 lizmat perhaps we should just use await with a timeout Promise
13:11 lizmat or the awaiterator  :-)
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13:14 jnthn Supply.from-list( [1,2],[3,4,5] ).map( {.flat} )
13:14 jnthn This test wanted the flattening behavior for example
13:14 lizmat probably not a very good test
13:15 lizmat :-(
13:15 ilmari m: say 5²³
13:15 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«11920928955078125␤»
13:15 ilmari TimToady++
13:19 jnthn eek, the Supply.map tests are also often testing map on lists taht are fed to from-list... o.O
13:19 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: e5b9e0e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder.pm:
13:19 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: On Win32, exec instead of system because daemon does not daemonize itself
13:19 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/e5b9e0e8c1
13:19 jnthn No wonder they didn't do what I expect :)
13:19 lizmat .oO( maybe having no tests would have been better :-(  )
13:20 jnthn The *majority* of the test files actually worked out pretty fine
13:20 jnthn Seems that .from-list never got updated post-GLR, and was doing *@foo, when it probably should follow the single arg rule
13:21 lizmat ah, ok...  :-)
13:22 dalek rakudo/resupply: 1bce55f | jnthn++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
13:22 dalek rakudo/resupply: Supply.from-list should follow 1-arg rule.
13:22 dalek rakudo/resupply: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1bce55ff34
13:22 dalek roast/resupply: 6f1e17e | jnthn++ | S17-supply/map.t:
13:22 dalek roast/resupply: Revise Supply.map tests.
13:22 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6f1e17ea13
13:23 jnthn OK, that's map.t off the list :)
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13:25 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: f7d2e86 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder (2 files):
13:25 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Infer author_id from GitHub username if META does not declare it (Closes #42)
13:25 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/f7d2e864dd
13:26 andreoss joined #perl6
13:31 jnthn Urgh, flat.t shows up something nasty going on with .close closing wrong taps :(
13:34 FROGGS IS THAT ABOUT BEER OR JUST PROGRAMMING??!!11
13:34 arnsholt Why not both? =)
13:35 FROGGS AAAAAAAHHHHH
13:37 kjs_ joined #perl6
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13:38 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 685d801 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder.pm:
13:38 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Check for and delete any logotype files for dists no longer in db
13:38 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/685d801ba6
13:41 kid51 joined #perl6
13:41 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 1cbc13c | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder.pm:
13:41 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Separate dist build log output from finishing messages
13:41 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/1cbc13c536
13:42 pierre-vigier joined #perl6
13:45 tadzik if it's not beer-driven development, let it be at least beer-inspired :)
13:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 525b1d1 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6 (7 files):
13:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Fix typoes / add stopwords for spellchecker
13:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/525b1d18fe
13:51 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 6e3a6d8 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Log.pm:
13:51 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: We do not need 5.020 here
13:51 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/6e3a6d80e8
13:53 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: c65e1dc | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (2 files):
13:53 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Our code needs at least perl 5.014
13:53 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/c65e1dc285
13:53 jnthn The further I golf the bug, the weirder it gets
13:56 Woodi btw. about performance: if some simple script executes (from command line to comman line) faster then a blink then it is quite good, whatever a numbers are :) IMO
13:56 domidumont joined #perl6
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13:59 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 3abc10c | (Zoffix Znet)++ | build-project-list.pl:
13:59 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Do not bury constant logos dir in the code
13:59 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/3abc10c501
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14:07 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 7c11262 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (4 files):
14:07 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Move all executables into /bin/
14:07 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/7c11262ca5
14:14 doublec joined #perl6
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14:15 jnthn D'oh, found it, I think.
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14:30 lizmat jnthn: sanity check: is .WHERE of an object guaranteed to be constant for its lifetime?
14:30 lizmat jnthn: or can a gc change it ?
14:31 timotimo jnthn: https://github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master/S02-types/array-shapes.t#L61-L74 - so i can basically throw this out?
14:31 jnthn lizmat: .WHERE can (will :-)) change
14:31 jnthn lizmat: nqp::objectid is the stable thing
14:32 jnthn (Carries some cost to maek that promise)
14:32 dalek roast/resupply: fc63260 | jnthn++ | S17-supply/grep.t:
14:32 dalek roast/resupply: Fix now from-list follows 1-arg rule.
14:32 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fc63260a0f
14:32 lizmat ok, that means that we have a problem in the way that gistseen/perlseen work
14:33 jnthn Oh, it's not using .WHICH?
14:33 lizmat it *is* for the key, but not for the representation in .perl and .gist
14:33 lizmat m: my $a = [42]; $a[1] = $a; say $a.perl
14:33 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(my \Array_140146618956656 = $[42, Array_140146618956656])␤»
14:34 jnthn oh
14:34 jnthn yeah, I'd use objectid there
14:34 lizmat ok, will fix that
14:34 dalek rakudo/resupply: 7f8030b | jnthn++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
14:34 dalek rakudo/resupply: Fix tap closing scoping bugs.
14:34 dalek rakudo/resupply:
14:34 dalek rakudo/resupply: Could lead to closing of the wrong taps.
14:34 dalek rakudo/resupply: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7f8030b143
14:37 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: f3e1638 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (4 files):
14:37 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Improve coverage tests
14:37 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/f3e16386b0
14:37 kjs_ joined #perl6
14:37 timotimo those numbers look like unix timestamps to me for no particular reason
14:37 lizmat jnthn: is there a reason to say 'my int = 0' when we know it's going to be 0 ?
14:38 jnthn timotimo: If they are, I think they're from a good way into the future ;)
14:39 jnthn lizmat: No more than "I like the explicitness"
14:39 lizmat jnthn: ok
14:39 arnsholt I was about to suggest "explicit is better than implicit" =)
14:40 dalek roast/resupply: d2fccdf | jnthn++ | S17-supply/ (4 files):
14:40 dalek roast/resupply: More fixes for .from-list fallout.
14:40 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d2fccdf0bb
14:40 lizmat hmmm... oddly enough, explicite in this case seems to be faster as well
14:41 jnthn Down to 9 S17-supply tests with issues now
14:41 jnthn Most due to the Test::TAP done thing
14:42 jnthn Uh, Tap
14:42 jnthn heh
14:42 jnthn That's an unfortunate confusion :)
14:43 lizmat bikeshed away, I would say  :)
14:43 jnthn Can't be bothered :)
14:44 * jnthn removes the $s.done and sees what happens
14:45 lizmat jnthn: the $s.done test is to prevent hanging
14:45 lizmat if a test fails for some reason
14:46 lizmat so if everything is ok, you won't see a difference
14:46 lizmat if not, you might see a hang
14:47 dalek nqp: ad87dc9 | (Ronald Schmidt)++ | tools/build/Makefile-common.in:
14:47 dalek nqp: Update Makefile-common.in to work with mingw
14:47 dalek nqp:
14:47 dalek nqp: Fix /bin/sh: C:Strawberryperlbinperl.exe: command not found errors with mingw build without (hopefully) breaking other builds.
14:47 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ad87dc974b
14:47 dalek nqp: 71c6fd4 | (Jimmy Zhuo)++ | tools/build/Makefile-common.in:
14:47 dalek nqp: Merge pull request #259 from ronaldxs/master
14:47 dalek nqp:
14:47 dalek nqp: Update Makefile-common.in to work with mingw
14:47 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/71c6fd4d1e
14:48 jnthn lizmat: ah, ok
14:48 jnthn Hm, I busted zip and zip-latest, it seems
14:50 timotimo at least zip-latest has always been problematic
14:50 timotimo it kept oversharing values from earlier :|
14:51 gfldex m: sub range_rand(\min, \max){ (max - min).rand + min }; sub range_roll(\min, \max, \times){ range_rand(min,max) xx times }; say range_roll(0.1,0.3,10); #126664
14:51 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(0.114553204786117 0.282474299596918 0.199445260961036 0.24923524175062 0.193473323053126 0.131453337177036 0.299215762973047 0.193697580865753 0.169199240435266 0.214324695974161)␤»
14:52 gfldex lizmat: ^^^ that may be sensible too (re: #126664)
14:52 jnthn duh, what a silly mistake...
14:53 zacts joined #perl6
14:53 * lizmat is curious
14:54 xpen joined #perl6
14:55 zacts yo perl6 hackers
14:55 zacts and nerds and geeks et al...
14:55 tadzik hello zacts
14:56 zacts lo
14:56 dalek rakudo/resupply: 39db5e3 | jnthn++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
14:56 dalek rakudo/resupply: whenever over correct supplies in zip.
14:56 dalek rakudo/resupply: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/39db5e3d37
14:57 jnthn So, zip is happy now
14:58 jnthn hmm, I think the zip-latest fail is a thinko in the test
14:58 jnthn it does a .done and then a .emit on the same supply
14:58 DrForr_ wr0d.
14:59 jnthn Pretty sure that's a thinko. :)
14:59 xfix joined #perl6
14:59 lizmat I'll buy that
15:00 dalek roast/resupply: 5eb47dc | jnthn++ | packages/Test/Tap.pm:
15:00 dalek roast/resupply: Remove hang check that no longer works.
15:00 dalek roast/resupply:
15:00 dalek roast/resupply: Shouldn't affect the timeout, though.
15:00 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5eb47dcd40
15:00 dalek roast/resupply: cafea57 | jnthn++ | S17-supply/zip-latest.t:
15:00 dalek roast/resupply: Fix zip-latest test thinko.
15:00 dalek roast/resupply:
15:00 dalek roast/resupply: It likely meant to write to the not-yet-done supply; we now enforce
15:00 dalek roast/resupply: protocol.
15:00 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/cafea57499
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15:38 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 9d01ad3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (4 files):
15:38 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Improve ::Root controller test coverage to 100%
15:38 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/9d01ad3e84
15:38 dalek roast: 5f938a6 | timotimo++ | S02-types/array-shapes.t:
15:38 dalek roast: kick out wrong tests
15:38 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5f938a66e7
15:39 dalek rakudo/nom: 131367c | timotimo++ | src/core/Array.pm:
15:39 dalek rakudo/nom: teach TypedArray about shapes
15:39 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/131367c7da
15:39 dalek rakudo/nom: 8618f41 | timotimo++ | src/core/Array.pm:
15:39 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'shaped_nonnative_typed_arrays' into nom
15:39 dalek rakudo/nom:
15:39 dalek rakudo/nom: my Int @foo[10;20] and friends now work.
15:39 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8618f41e48
15:41 jnthn \o/
15:41 jnthn timotimo++
15:48 dalek roast/resupply: 8bd01a8 | jnthn++ | S17-supply/c (2 files):
15:48 dalek roast/resupply: Mark "done" at right point in some tests.
15:48 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8bd01a8b0c
15:48 dalek rakudo/resupply: d6ce4a4 | jnthn++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
15:48 dalek rakudo/resupply: Add Supplier::Preserving.
15:48 dalek rakudo/resupply:
15:48 dalek rakudo/resupply: If the supply has not been tapped yet, then preserves any emitted
15:48 dalek rakudo/resupply: events (emit/done/quit) until a tap happens, then feeds them all to
15:48 dalek rakudo/resupply: that tap. Follow-up taps continue to get the live supply.
15:48 dalek rakudo/resupply: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d6ce4a46a4
15:49 dalek rakudo/resupply: abb5da2 | jnthn++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
15:49 dalek rakudo/resupply: Use Supplier::Preserving in classify/categorize.
15:49 dalek rakudo/resupply: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/abb5da2b71
15:49 dalek rakudo/resupply: 420a716 | jnthn++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
15:49 dalek rakudo/resupply: Fix arity bug in .tap's emit default.
15:49 dalek rakudo/resupply: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/420a716e18
15:49 dalek rakudo/resupply: b50f48c | jnthn++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
15:49 dalek rakudo/resupply: Don't try and clean up a tap we don't have.
15:49 dalek rakudo/resupply: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b50f48c80f
15:53 dalek roast/resupply: f5c1886 | jnthn++ | S17-supply/produce.t:
15:53 dalek roast/resupply: Add tests for Supply.produce.
15:53 dalek roast/resupply:
15:53 dalek roast/resupply: Which does what Supply.reduce used to, since produce is the "triangle"
15:53 dalek roast/resupply: form on lists, so it should be on supplies too.
15:53 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f5c188676d
15:54 dalek roast/resupply: af3d634 | jnthn++ | S17-supply/reduce.t:
15:54 dalek roast/resupply: Update Supply.reduce tests to match semantics.
15:54 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/af3d634561
15:55 lucasb m: say '<--'
15:55 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«<--␤»
15:55 lucasb It took me some days to notice that camelia is not printing the revision number
15:55 jnthn hmm
15:56 jnthn Phew, down to 3 supply test files needing attention
15:56 lizmat jnthn++
15:56 lizmat afk for a few hours&
15:56 lucasb maybe this commit changed something: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/196aa24c8958b157ed85aa010eba306e91b7be74
15:58 xpen joined #perl6
15:59 dalek roast/resupply: 569072c | jnthn++ | S17-supply/unique.t:
15:59 dalek roast/resupply: Missing flat, .done calls.
15:59 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/569072c15c
16:00 jnthn Now it's 2.
16:03 sjn_phone joined #perl6
16:04 jnthn Darn, I've got to understand throttle
16:04 samb1 joined #perl6
16:05 * lizmat is not away after all
16:05 lizmat can I help you with that ?
16:05 lizmat jnthn: ^^^
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16:07 lizmat http://doc.perl6.org/routine/throttle   # jnthn
16:07 lizmat hmmm... needs a little cleanup
16:07 jnthn lizmat: I think I can re-work it not to use "on"
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16:09 dalek doc: 2bc558b | lizmat++ | doc/Type/ (2 files):
16:09 dalek doc: Cleanup some =over and =back
16:09 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2bc558bc99
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16:19 jnthn lizmat: A couple of usage examples would be really great in the docs ;)
16:20 * jnthn compiles the refactored-to-use-whenever version
16:20 lizmat hmmm... I could have sworn I had done some
16:21 lizmat will do after dinner
16:21 jnthn Darn typo...
16:21 jnthn :)
16:21 * jnthn tries again
16:21 jnthn I suspect I'll have to re-work the tests a bit
16:22 jnthn 'cus of the supply/supplier distinction we now have
16:22 DrForr_ YAPC::EU Aug 24-26. Booking my flights now :)
16:22 jnthn :)
16:23 * grondilu wonders if it would be reasonable to set [+] 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 ... * to be 1
16:24 grondilu (or more generally to use the explicit formula for the sum of a geometric sequence)
16:24 grondilu (I mean since it's been done for arithmetic sequences...)
16:25 lizmat hmmm... another use for ^1  :)
16:27 timotimo grondilu: it's only useful if we have a prover for any given sequence, otherwise it'd really only be that literal sequence summed up that'd result in 1
16:27 lizmat m: my \a = [23,42,a]; dd a  # this feels incorrect
16:27 camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Array $var = $[23, 42, Mu]␤»
16:28 lizmat dinner&
16:29 timotimo there's no container we can put in there to have the array later, eh?
16:31 baest_ joined #perl6
16:31 dalek nqp/js-cps: dd4f0de | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/bin/run_tests.pl:
16:31 dalek nqp/js-cps: [js] Add test 87 to the list of run tests.
16:31 dalek nqp/js-cps: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/dd4f0de6f1
16:31 dalek nqp/js-cps: 3dffa81 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (3 files):
16:31 dalek nqp/js-cps: [js] Use the :ctx named parameter for ops that take a ctx.
16:31 dalek nqp/js-cps: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3dffa8189c
16:31 dalek nqp/js-cps: b272c80 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (4 files):
16:31 dalek nqp/js-cps: [js] Start of work on compiling code in CPS transformed way.
16:31 dalek nqp/js-cps: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b272c8039d
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16:36 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: df6be01 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (3 files):
16:36 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Increase test coverage to 100% for ModulesPerl6.pm
16:36 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/df6be01b92
16:36 rindolf joined #perl6
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16:37 grondilu timotimo: all geometric sequence have an exact formula for their sum, and infix:<...> can recognize geometric sequences.
16:37 M-Illandan joined #perl6
16:38 lucasb Interesting, --target=ast can produce some errors that normal perl6 doesn't seem to suffer
16:38 lucasb perl6 --target=ast -e 1 > /dev/null  #=> ===SORRY!=== Failed to flush filehandle: invalid argument
16:38 lucasb perl6 --target=ast -e 'sub f {}'  #=> Sub object coerced to string ... in any dump_node_list at gen/moar/stage2/QASTNode.nqp:81
16:38 dalek rakudo/resupply: 0a48b97 | jnthn++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
16:38 dalek rakudo/resupply: Re-work throttle to use whenever.
16:38 dalek rakudo/resupply:
16:38 dalek rakudo/resupply: At least, so far as the tests test it.
16:38 dalek rakudo/resupply: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0a48b973d8
16:38 timotimo grondilu: and then the user relies on that, accidentally uses real instead of rat and wonders why there's an infinite loop in their program? :)
16:40 grondilu not sure what you mean.  The formula remains true with reals.
16:40 jnthn lucasb: Still outputs the AST in the second case though :)
16:40 jnthn And the first is useless anyway
16:40 grondilu as long as the geometric sequence is recognized, you're fine.
16:40 lucasb jnthn: 'useless' is such a strong word :)
16:44 ribasushi joined #perl6
16:47 stmuk is anyone seeing an odd error with ecosystem modules and prove being "unable to fork"?
16:48 ZoffixW joined #perl6
16:49 ZoffixW lucasb, yup, you're right. Fix incoming
16:49 lucasb ZoffixW: yeah, tumuch shell escaping, thanks :)
16:50 dalek evalbot: 0bc6e6f | (Zoffix Znet)++ | evalbot.pl:
16:50 dalek evalbot: Give get_revisions_from_file proper path since now we are escaping shell stuff, so ~ is not special
16:50 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/0bc6e6f94b
16:50 ZoffixW ^ that should do it. If anyone can pull and restart
16:55 RabidGravy stmuk, nope, though that's not to say it's not happening :)
16:56 camelia joined #perl6
16:56 lucasb m: say 'hi'
16:58 camelia rakudo-moar 8618f4: OUTPUT«hi␤»
16:58 arnsholt jnthn: I've managed to segfault Moar with NativeCall. Investigating now, but looks like CStruct.c's initialize() gets called with an STable whose REPR data is 0x0
16:58 ZoffixW \o/
16:58 lucasb ZoffixW: :D
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17:03 dalek roast/resupply: 6cde112 | jnthn++ | S17-supply/throttle.t:
17:03 dalek roast/resupply: Updates for supply/supplier distinction.
17:03 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6cde112f35
17:03 dalek roast/resupply: a819aa1 | jnthn++ | packages/Test/Tap.pm:
17:03 dalek roast/resupply: A (over-simple) fake scheduler.
17:03 dalek roast/resupply:
17:03 dalek roast/resupply: To allow us to write tests using virtualized time, rather than sleep.
17:03 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a819aa127e
17:03 dalek roast/resupply: 1f11585 | jnthn++ | S17-supply/interval.t:
17:03 dalek roast/resupply: Use virtual time in Supply.interval tests.
17:03 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1f11585d46
17:04 jnthn .tell lizmat If you're looking for something to hack on with supplies, then re-working some of the supply tests that sleep to use virtual time would be good. Feel free to advance the scheduler a bit too; it's the simplest thing that could possibly work. :)
17:04 yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
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17:05 jnthn At some point we'll want a good virtual time scheduler in the ecosystem too, so everyone can write decent tests :)
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17:13 dalek roast/resupply: bcb3200 | jnthn++ | S16-io/supply.t:
17:13 dalek roast/resupply: IO::Handle.Supply is not live.
17:13 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/bcb32000e2
17:13 dalek roast/resupply: 2408bce | jnthn++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
17:13 dalek roast/resupply: Fix WHICH.t: remove unknown type, add new one.
17:13 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2408bce935
17:14 dalek doc: cf18697 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | CONTRIBUTING.md:
17:14 dalek doc: Update CONTRIBUTING.md
17:14 dalek doc:
17:14 dalek doc: Link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_voice for those who're not familiar with the concept
17:14 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/cf186970e0
17:14 kjs_ joined #perl6
17:16 dalek roast/resupply: c82b01a | jnthn++ | integration/advent2013-day19.t:
17:16 dalek roast/resupply: Update for supply/supplier distinction.
17:16 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c82b01af4b
17:16 jnthn .oO( The active voice was encouraged. )
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17:17 ZoffixW :D
17:18 dalek doc: f94185e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/io.pod:
17:18 dalek doc: Reword / typo
17:18 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f94185e4d6
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17:24 dalek doc: 8feb8de | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/io.pod:
17:24 dalek doc: Reword
17:24 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8feb8de8b7
17:27 TimToady m: my (\d); d = 42; dd d
17:27 camelia rakudo-moar 8618f4: OUTPUT«Int $var = 42␤»
17:28 TimToady lizmat: this might be related to the $ that happens to the array
17:28 TimToady my (\d) should probably fail without a bindee
17:31 dalek doc: 94e045f | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/io.pod:
17:31 dalek doc: Reword
17:31 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/94e045f850
17:31 dalek doc: 2ca1886 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/io.pod:
17:31 dalek doc: Do not explicitly suggest to check for file"s existence before reading
17:31 dalek doc:
17:31 dalek doc: It"s not a suitable check due to race conditions and errors when opening for read aren"t as evil as the current wording suggests
17:31 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2ca1886d3a
17:32 lizmat .botsnack
17:32 yoleaux 17:04Z <jnthn> lizmat: If you're looking for something to hack on with supplies, then re-working some of the supply tests that sleep to use virtual time would be good. Feel free to advance the scheduler a bit too; it's the simplest thing that could possibly work. :)
17:32 yoleaux :D
17:32 jnthn m: module foo; sub foo() { say "OH HAI" }; foo; foo()
17:32 camelia rakudo-moar 8618f4: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/I3bZzMcWtU␤Semicolon form of 'module' without 'unit' is illegal.  You probably want to use 'unit module'␤at /tmp/I3bZzMcWtU:1␤------> 3module foo;7⏏5 sub foo() { say "OH HAI" }; foo; foo()␤»
17:32 jnthn m: module foo { }; sub foo() { say "OH HAI" }; foo; foo()
17:32 camelia rakudo-moar 8618f4: ( no output )
17:33 jnthn TimToady: In ^^, foo() ends up being a coercion type literal
17:33 jnthn TimToady: Not quite sure what we should do, if anything, here
17:33 jnthn That's https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=115608. And related is https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=113892.
17:34 jnthn m: module A { enum Day is export <Mon Tue>; sub Day is export { 'sub Day' } }; import A; say Day(0);
17:34 camelia rakudo-moar 8618f4: OUTPUT«Mon␤»
17:34 jnthn There's no symbol table collision in either case, 'cus subs go in as &foo and types as foo
17:35 lizmat m: my %hash = a => 1; say item(%hash).perl  # I think this should be "${:a(1)}"
17:35 camelia rakudo-moar 8618f4: OUTPUT«{:a(1)}␤»
17:35 lizmat ^^^ TimToady jnthn do you agree ?
17:36 dalek doc: b59e3f3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/io.pod:
17:36 dalek doc: Reword / typos
17:36 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b59e3f39a3
17:36 jnthn lizmat: I'd say so
17:36 lizmat multi sub item(\x)    { my $ = x }    # the appropriate item() candidate
17:36 jnthn Yeah, suspect the .perl is wrong
17:36 lizmat ok, then I'll fix the test  :-)
17:37 lizmat yeah, I'm reworking the perlseen bits, and after that this test failed
17:37 lizmat so it seems I also fixed a bug  :-)
17:37 zengargoyle good * #perl6
17:37 lizmat zengargoyle o/
17:37 dalek doc: 8ecbc76 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/io.pod:
17:37 dalek doc: Typo
17:37 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8ecbc76302
17:37 ZoffixW \o
17:39 dalek doc: 5c45e67 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/IO/Handle.pod:
17:39 dalek doc: clarify IO::Handle.getc
17:39 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5c45e6715a
17:39 dalek doc: 5473320 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Handle.pod:
17:39 dalek doc: Merge pull request #214 from gfldex/master
17:39 dalek doc:
17:39 dalek doc: clarify IO::Handle.getc
17:39 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/547332020b
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17:40 dalek rakudo/nom: 1c36fb7 | lizmat++ | src/core/ (7 files):
17:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Generalize .perlseen/.gistseen handling some more
17:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1c36fb7d57
17:41 dalek roast: 6a16a67 | lizmat++ | S02-types/hash.t:
17:41 dalek roast: Fix item %hash test
17:41 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6a16a67f32
17:43 sufrostico joined #perl6
17:46 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: b84aa37 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist.pm:
17:46 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Handle case when Dist Source fails and returns undef
17:46 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/b84aa37492
18:02 TimToady jnthn: re foo vs &foo, it almost doesn't matter which way we do it, since you can work around with &foo() the one direction, and ().foo the other direction; a middle way would be to allow 'undeclaring' a typename in an inner scope, which we can't do right now, but the status quo seems okay to me, where type name declarations always take precedence
18:03 TimToady m: module foo { }; { sub foo() { say "OH HAI" }; my \foo = &foo; foo; &foo() }
18:03 camelia rakudo-moar 1c36fb: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
18:03 TimToady m: module foo { }; { sub foo() { "OH HAI" }; my \foo = &foo; say foo; say &foo() }
18:03 camelia rakudo-moar 1c36fb: OUTPUT«sub foo () { #`(Sub|59510816) ... }␤OH HAI␤»
18:03 dalek rakudo/resupply: 986b6e9 | jnthn++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
18:03 dalek rakudo/resupply: Rename last -> tail, align semantics.
18:03 dalek rakudo/resupply: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/986b6e9b38
18:03 dalek rakudo/resupply: d5ab9bf | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
18:03 dalek rakudo/resupply: Chase test file renaming.
18:03 dalek rakudo/resupply: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d5ab9bfadb
18:04 TimToady well, that almost works as a type override...
18:04 TimToady m: module foo { }; { sub foo() { "OH HAI" }; my \foo = &foo; say foo; say foo() }
18:04 camelia rakudo-moar 1c36fb: OUTPUT«sub foo () { #`(Sub|67694576) ... }␤OH HAI␤»
18:04 TimToady lets you drop the & anyway
18:04 dalek roast/resupply: 108337d | jnthn++ | S17-supply/ (2 files):
18:04 dalek roast/resupply: Chase Supply.last -> Supply.tail.
18:04 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/108337d810
18:04 jnthn OK, thanks.
18:05 jnthn Those'll be two very RTs to resolve them :)
18:05 jnthn Just tests for current behavior and close 'em.
18:05 TimToady so I'd say Not A Bug
18:05 jnthn *very easy
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18:06 * TimToady now imagines 'anon class foo {}' as a way to hide the outer definition of foo
18:07 dalek roast/resupply: a1eb506 | jnthn++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
18:07 dalek roast/resupply: Toss two types that are gone.
18:07 dalek roast/resupply: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a1eb5062d4
18:07 TimToady you-don't-see-me class foo {}
18:07 jnthn :)
18:07 jnthn Gonna merge resupply after this spectest run
18:08 jnthn May as well have the upheavel sooner rather than later
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18:09 zengargoyle m: my \now = 1; say DateTime.now;
18:09 camelia rakudo-moar 1c36fb: OUTPUT«2015-11-26T19:09:10+01:00␤»
18:09 dalek rakudo/resupply: df06a24 | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
18:09 dalek rakudo/resupply: Toss S17-supply/on.t, add S17-supply/produce.t.
18:09 dalek rakudo/resupply: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/df06a24290
18:09 nine jnthn: speaking of merging: what do you see as requirements for merging curli?
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18:10 jnthn nine: Spectests in shape, Panda still installs modules (Task::Star is a good check)
18:10 kjs_ joined #perl6
18:10 jnthn If there has to be a Panda patch too that's also fine
18:12 zengargoyle guess totally fooling the concept of now is a different matter.
18:16 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 6cd62dd | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source.pm:
18:16 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Use "url" throughout
18:16 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/6cd62dde98
18:17 jnthn nine: I'd generally prefer "sooner rather than later"
18:17 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 29ec6ff | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source.pm:
18:17 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Fix bug where dists can override private build info via rogue META keys
18:17 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/29ec6ff3d6
18:18 jnthn nine: So once you feel comfortable with the state of it, then I'm fine.
18:20 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 21 commits to rakudo/nom by jnthn
18:20 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 19 commits to roast by jnthn
18:20 nine jnthn: ok :)
18:20 jnthn resupply merged :)
18:20 RabidGravy boom!
18:21 nine Seems like there are modules in Task::Star that modify @*INC (at least in tests)
18:21 ZoffixW \o/ jnthn++
18:21 ZoffixW Pluggable relies on it
18:21 ZoffixW (probably not in Task::Star tho)
18:21 jnthn Ah, OK
18:21 jnthn Well, we can't do much about that I guess.
18:22 ZoffixW Yeah
18:22 jnthn Better to break things sooner, so they can be fixed sooner.
18:23 RabidGravy (breaking things)++
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18:23 jnthn At least folks know that in less than a month, the churn will be over. :)
18:23 nine You mean I don't get to merge it the day before the release and vanish for a couple of weeks vacation?
18:24 jnthn :P
18:24 ZoffixW :P
18:24 jnthn I'd rather we merge it soon, but vanishing for vacation after the release is quite sane. :)
18:24 * jnthn sure as heck will be
18:25 jnthn OK, off to cook :)
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18:26 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: f6c3592 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source.pm:
18:26 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Delete all rogue META keys that might interfere with our build code
18:26 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/f6c35924bd
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18:33 lucasb merge all the things /o/
18:33 lucasb and let's not forget to branch perl 7 development after xmas :D
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18:47 Quom_ Did anyone else notice this issue:
18:47 Quom_ m: sub f($a) {$a**2}; say [+] (^100).hyper.map(&f)
18:47 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«328350␤»
18:47 Quom_ m: multi f($a) {$a**2}; say [+] (^100).hyper.map(&f)
18:47 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«0␤»
18:47 Quom_ m: multi f($a) {$a**2}; say [+] (^100).map(&f)
18:47 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«328350␤»
18:48 TimToady I think we noticed something like it the other day, dunno if anybody rakudobugged it
18:50 TimToady starting here: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-11-22#i_11579835
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18:55 TimToady doesn't look like anyone reported it since then...
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18:56 arnsholt m: unit module Foo; use NativeCall; my class Bar is repr('CStruct') { my sub malloc(int64 --> OpaquePointer) is native(Str) { * } }
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18:58 arnsholt m: say "alive?"
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18:59 ZoffixW I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I cannot do that.
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19:03 TimToady bad netweather lately...
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19:07 TimToady anyway, I reported the HyperSeq bug, should have an RT shortly
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19:09 TimToady camelia, Excess Flood?
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19:10 Quom_ TimToady: As I said before the netsplit ended, there's already a ticket in https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=126597
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19:10 TimToady ah, well, mine's a dup then
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19:11 TimToady better too many going for the ball than too few :)
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19:11 Quom_ Hah, true :)
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19:11 * Quom_ afk
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19:16 ZoffixW Man, the search on http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today really sucks. It can't find what I want 70% of the time, even though I 100% know the terms I search for were said.
19:16 Sgeo_ joined #perl6
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19:16 ZoffixW Anyone remember who suggested "Koality" instead of "Kwalitee"?
19:17 TEttinger like koala bears?
19:17 ZoffixW Yeah :)
19:17 lucasb_ joined #perl6
19:17 TEttinger they're cute lil fellers
19:18 sufrostico joined #perl6
19:18 ZoffixW http://cdn.meme.am/instances/59188417.jpg
19:18 skids ZoffixW: that search has its issues but considering the state of the art has been steadily regressing for the last decade, it is ahead by not getting worse. :-)
19:18 ZoffixW heh
19:19 molaf_ joined #perl6
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19:19 arnsholt m: say "alive?"
19:20 arnsholt Oh well
19:20 ZoffixW Careful! Last time you did that we got a giant netsplit :P
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19:26 RabidGravy OOPS! https://travis-ci.org/sergot/http-useragent/builds/93413230
19:26 lucasb_ ZoffixW: I sometimes use google to search the irclog: https://www.google.com/search?q=site:irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-11+someword
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19:27 ZoffixW lucasb, I tried that, but did not find what I was looking for
19:27 RabidGravy anyone got an insight as to what that "MVMArray: Index out of bounds" might mean before I chase it down?
19:27 TimToady looks like camelia didn't get voiced...
19:27 ribasushi joined #perl6
19:28 ZoffixW m: say ¼²
19:29 TimToady but maybe that's not the problemo
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19:31 Skarsnik someone know why DBI do/execute return '0E0' instead of just ... 0 ?
19:31 jordman_ joined #perl6
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19:31 RabidGravy 0 but true
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19:32 nine_ jnthn_: from a user's perspective the most annoying thing about curli is that it won't let me install an already installed dist. Like the CORE dist that's installed as part of the build process. Or when panda's module data is out of sync with the really installed dists...
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19:33 RabidGravy Skarsnik, so it succeeded but returned 0
19:33 dalek rakudo/curli: 7c948ef | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/CompUnit/PrecompilationRepository.pm:
19:33 dalek rakudo/curli: Fixup error message when precompilation failed
19:33 dalek rakudo/curli: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7c948ef14e
19:33 Skarsnik why not returning True?
19:33 ZoffixW Skarsnik, because it's indicating that 0 things were affected
19:34 ZoffixW Skarsnik, 0 and false would mean an error happened.
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19:34 ZoffixW And I'm suspecting this might be an artifact from P5's implementation, if there's a saner way to do that sort of thing in P6
19:34 nwc10 jnthn_: you're aware that t/spec/S17-supply/categorize.t
19:34 nwc10 now aborts (for me)
19:34 broquaint joined #perl6
19:34 nwc10 #2  0x00007ffff66ab9d1 in uv_mutex_destroy (mutex=0x604000528cd0) at 3rdparty/libuv/src/unix/thread.c:114
19:34 nwc10 #3  0x00007ffff6530a09 in gc_free (tc=0x61600000fc80, obj=0x7ffff2637ad8) at src/6model/reprs/ReentrantMutex.c:43
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19:35 nine_ ZoffixW: well in Perl 6 we could have a 0 but True. However the same problem was discussed at length regarding Str.index and the solution was to add syntax as replacement for if
19:35 nwc10 jnthn_: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/501988
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19:35 nwc10 no ASAN barfage
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19:39 dalek doc: 2f802c5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (2 files):
19:39 dalek doc: Hide home page logo on mobile (Closes #204)
19:39 dalek doc:
19:39 dalek doc: I"m choosing to hide the logo entirely, since on screens that small, the logo in the header looks large enough to serve the role for the larger homepage logo as well
19:39 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2f802c5f51
19:39 Skarsnik lol
19:39 Skarsnik the split
19:39 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: a88b0bb | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6 (2 files):
19:39 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Write docs for ModulesPerl6::DbBuilder::Dist::Source subclass
19:39 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/a88b0bbd57
19:39 Skarsnik nine_, what was the solution for .index?
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19:41 nine_ Skarsnik: I think it's when "foo".index("f") -> $index { say $index };
19:41 nine_ m: when "foo".index("f") -> $index { say $index };
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19:42 Skarsnik so if "foo".index('f') will be false?
19:42 nine_ yes
19:43 nine_ if checks boolean value, when checks definedness
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19:44 Skarsnik I really don't like the '0E0' it's ugly. especially I used select statement to see if an id was already in the DB and having to test against '0E0' irkked me x)
19:45 atta joined #perl6
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19:46 ZoffixW Skarsnik, why do you test agains '0E0'?
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19:47 ZoffixW Skarsnik, perl6 -e 'my $ret_succ = "0E0"; my $ret_err = "0"; say "Success on zero rows!" if $ret_succ; say "Error!!" if $ret_err'
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19:47 ZoffixW well.. s/zero rows/possibly zero rows/;
19:47 moritz 0 but True
19:47 ZoffixW And I might be wrong
19:48 Skarsnik funny thing in DBIsh nothing return 0 x)
19:48 ZoffixW 'cause I recall P6 treats string "0" as true.
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19:49 ZoffixW Yeah, my example above is wrong.
19:49 telex joined #perl6
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19:50 ZoffixW So I don't think this type of "zero but true" works in P6.
19:50 camelia joined #perl6
19:50 psch m: with "foo".index("f") { .say }
19:51 ZoffixW I get 0 in the terminal
19:51 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«0␤»
19:51 TimToady that's correct
19:51 Skarsnik I mean it's the right moment to break thing in DBIish x)
19:51 ZoffixW Skarsnik, go for it :)
19:51 ZoffixW m: say so "0"
19:51 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:52 psch hm, downarrow on search results on doc.perl6.org doesn't work..?
19:52 ZoffixW m: say so 0E0
19:52 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«False␤»
19:52 ZoffixW .oO( here we go again )
19:52 psch as in, it directly selects the first option and colapses the drop-down
19:52 * TimToady restarted camelia, and it seems to have fixed whatever indigestion it had connecting to the server
19:52 ZoffixW That search box is evil :D
19:52 ZoffixW psch, yeah and I know why.
19:52 psch yes, just remove it and put a custom google search :P
19:52 raiph m: sub postfix:<.now> ($) {say "" }; DateTime.now # for zengargoyle
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19:52 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«␤»
19:52 psch just kidding, actually :S
19:53 ZoffixW TOO LATE! I"M GONNA FIX IT! :D
19:53 rindolf joined #perl6
19:53 psch uh, yes, but not with a google custom search i hope? :P
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19:54 raiph m: with "foo".index("f") { .say };
19:54 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«0␤»
19:54 psch m: when "foo".index("f") { .say }
19:54 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context  in block <unit> at /tmp/95n96BQsX3:1␤(Any)␤»
19:54 sufrosti1o joined #perl6
19:54 ZoffixW psch, not yet, with the down arrow... which I'm surprised is broken, based on the code.
19:54 Skarsnik any though on? https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/issues/22 I currently fooling around with that x)
19:54 TimToady nine_: yeah, 'when' is the wrong word that begins with 'w', but I didn't see anything better than 'with'
19:54 ZoffixW psch, but as for google search... I kinda wish when "No results" is shown there were a button I could click that'd give me google search results for the term.
19:54 psch m: $_ = "foo"; when .index("f") { .say }
19:54 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '7⏏5foo' (indicated by 7⏏)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/hzdp_NFsJz:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/hzdp_NFsJz:1␤␤»
19:55 TimToady don't use 'when'!!!
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19:55 TimToady when is smartmatching, you want 'with'
19:55 psch TimToady: i'm aware of this, i'm just trying to bend it until 'when' works... :S
19:55 TimToady .index("f") is going to return 0, and the try "foo" == 0
19:55 TimToady *then
19:56 psch huh
19:56 TimToady m: $_ = 0; when .index("0") { .say }
19:56 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«0␤»
19:56 psch is that a case where chaining ~~ kinda makes sense, maybe?
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19:56 psch 'cause the implicit smartmatch in when could chain with an e.g. infix:<==>
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19:57 jnthn nine_: So if you do "make" and then change something and "make" again, it complains about reinstalling the CORE dist? Or?
19:57 sufrostico joined #perl6
19:57 jnthn nwc10: No, it ran cleanly here... :S
19:57 psch like < $_ = "foo"; when .index("f") == 0 { .say } > i suppose
19:57 * Skarsnik don't want to install/config mysql to test stuff
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19:58 psch eh, no, that's probably too magical too :/
19:58 jnthn nwc10: Any idea *why* it aborts?
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19:58 nwc10 no. that's probably not the only test
19:58 psch as in, it could maybe sensibly work with < when 0 == .index("f") >, but wouldn't or shouldn't the other way around
19:58 nwc10 I didn't dig into the other failures, but guessed that all concurrency related new failures were the same cause
19:59 nwc10 I'm building without ASAN to see if it doesn't abort()
19:59 * TimToady is unmotivated to bend smartmatching into a with-shaped pretzel
19:59 psch ah, no, i'm confusing the sides :/
19:59 nwc10 ie if it's a timing issue exposed by ASAN making stuff slow
19:59 jnthn OK. I've no idea why it'd do that.
19:59 jnthn categorize.t ran fine for me on repeated spectest runs
20:00 psch TimToady: well, RT #81336 exists
20:00 psch and i've been wondering about use-cases for chaining infix:<~~>
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20:00 dalek doc: 42f7864 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | html/js/main.js:
20:00 dalek doc: Unbreak arrow navigation of search results psch++
20:00 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/42f7864450
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20:03 Skarsnik oooh is deprecated is not implemented?
20:03 mprelude joined #perl6
20:03 Skarsnik m: sub is deprecated('why') foo { say "Hello"}; foo();
20:03 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/lmRxPw1gPe␤Missing block␤at /tmp/lmRxPw1gPe:1␤------> 3sub is7⏏5 deprecated('why') foo { say "Hello"}; f␤    expecting any of:␤        new name to be defined␤»
20:04 Skarsnik m: sub foo is deprecated('why') { say "Hello"}; foo();
20:04 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/3TsWHI1tHE␤Can't use unknown trait 'is deprecated' in a sub declaration.␤at /tmp/3TsWHI1tHE:1␤    expecting any of:␤        rw raw hidden-from-backtrace hidden-from-USAGE␤        cached pure default D…»
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20:04 psch m: sub f is DEPRECATED("old") { say "hello" }; f
20:04 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«hello␤»
20:05 psch Skarsnik: the trait is shouty
20:05 Skarsnik Ok thx
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20:15 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 9a5a991 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source.pm:
20:15 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Fix pod errors and typos
20:15 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/9a5a991c19
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20:16 ZoffixW m: class Foo { method f is DEPRECATED("old") { say "hello" }; }; Foo.new.f
20:16 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«hello␤»
20:16 ZoffixW What does it do? I'm assuming it'd cry when deprecated methods are used, but it seems to work as normal.
20:21 Skarsnik aw 1 occurrence of deprecated code.
20:21 Skarsnik ================================================================================
20:21 Skarsnik Method fetchrow_array (from DBDish::Role::StatementHandle) seen at:
20:21 Skarsnik testtyped.pl, line 10
20:21 Skarsnik Please use please use row() instead.
20:21 Skarsnik --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20:21 ZoffixW I see.
20:22 * MadcapJake is feeling dizzy from the irregularity of error messages that `perl6 -c` prints
20:23 autarch is there no way to delete keys from a hash in Perl6?
20:23 MadcapJake gonna have to write a whole bunch of javascript regexes X_X
20:23 flussence m: my %foo = a => 1, b => 2; say %foo<a>:delete; dd %foo;
20:23 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«1␤Hash $var = ${:b(2)}␤»
20:23 vendethiel autarch: %a<b>:delete
20:24 autarch why a colon and not a dot?
20:24 Skarsnik hm, I don't see how to implement for $sth.row -> @row{} https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/issues/22 (last moritz comment) should I mark this as operator or something?
20:24 Skarsnik *iterator
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20:25 moritz Skarsnik: method row { gather { while my @row = self.fetchrow { take @row } }
20:25 leont Because it's a special case of accessing the element
20:26 nwc10 jnthn: also aborts for a regular debugging build. valgrind finds no problems before the abort
20:26 Skarsnik moritz, Na I mean, you don't want to gather the whole rows, only at each loop iteration
20:26 moritz Skarsnik: well, it's lazy
20:26 moritz Skarsnik: it only generates the rows as they are accessed
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20:27 MadcapJake does `perl6 -c` only catch X::Syntax exceptions or will it catch others too?
20:27 moritz my: my \rows = gather { for ^10 { say "generating $_"; take $_ } }; rows[2]
20:27 moritz m: my: my \rows = gather { for ^10 { say "generating $_"; take $_ } }; rows[2]
20:27 camelia rakudo-moar 51d695: OUTPUT«generating 0␤generating 1␤generating 2␤»
20:28 moritz MadcapJake: it doesn't catch exceptions
20:28 MadcapJake s/catch/print to stderr/
20:28 moritz MadcapJake: I mean, not more or less than normal perl6
20:28 moritz MadcapJake: all of them
20:28 Skarsnik so I put gather around the whole code of the method?
20:28 MadcapJake All that can be caught at compile time?
20:28 moritz MadcapJake: try -c -e 'BEGIN die "oh noez"'
20:29 moritz MadcapJake: it's just normal perl 6, except that it exits after compilation
20:29 nine_ jnthn: yes, we currently try to install the CORE dist on make install and it fails if it's already there
20:29 moritz so it runs all BEGIN blocks, use etc.
20:30 MadcapJake hmm, ok :P
20:32 MadcapJake I'm trying to wrap the output of `perl6 -c` to provide errors to Atom's linter.  Looks like I'm going to have to write a separate rule for each error then xD
20:33 sufrosti1o joined #perl6
20:36 MadcapJake moritz: is there any way to limit the scope of `perl6 -c` to just syntax checking?
20:37 moritz MadcapJake: no. You can't syntax-check without compiling
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20:38 Skarsnik moritz, hm, I still get only oen result
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20:40 Skarsnik ho you really need the while x)
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20:43 MadcapJake i wish that all error messages were single-line :(
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20:44 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 6681d54 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (4 files):
20:44 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Improve test coverage for ModulesPerl6::DbBuilder::Dist::Source
20:44 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/6681d54bf9
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20:48 jnthn nwc10: Maybe helgrind has an idea?
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20:53 nine_ jnthn: I think we need to have Repository::Installation precompile on load in addition to on install
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20:55 dalek doc: c8ec94a | lizmat++ | doc/Type/Supply.pod:
20:55 dalek doc: Slight Supply.throttle reorganization
20:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c8ec94a776
20:55 dalek doc: 229ec9b | lizmat++ | doc/Type/Supply.pod:
20:55 dalek doc: Add simple example of Supply.throttle (code)
20:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/229ec9bb1e
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21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: a51f6c7 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/CompUnit/Repository/Installation.pm:
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: Precompile on-demand in Repository::Installation, too.
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli:
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: CompUnit::Repository::Installation needs to precompile on-demand (when loading
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: a module) in addition to on installation. Consider:
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: use lib "lib"; # prepends a Repository::FileSystem to the repo chain
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: use Test; # installed in site, therefore not in lib's precomp store
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli:           # therefore loaded from source
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: use Test::Mock; # loaded from lib/ therefore precompiled on-demand.
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli:
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: Since Test::Mock uses Test, the latter will be precompiled, too when
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: precompiling Test::Mock. But Test was already loaded from source before
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: precompilation of Test::Mock so when we finally load the latter, we get
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: a conflict.
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli:
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: If you precompile on-demand, you have to do it everywhere.
21:11 dalek rakudo/curli: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a51f6c7abc
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21:12 nine_ I think this ^^^ was the source of the fleeting precompilation related failures I've seen from time to time. They appeared only on the first try since on the second the precompiled version of Test was already loaded from the start.
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21:17 jnthn nine_: No, I don't think installation should do that...
21:17 jnthn nine_: When we "make install" a new Rakudo version then it should go and produce precomp'd versions of installed modules at that point.
21:17 jnthn (When, since we're in make install, it certainly has permissions to be doing such things)
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21:21 jnthn nine_: Well, or depends on the active pre-comp manager
21:21 nine_ jnthn: the on-load precomp is for the case where we have a FileSystem repo before the Installation repo in the chain. That also means that we use the FileSystem repo's precomp store.
21:21 jnthn Yeah, I see
21:21 jnthn OK, then it makes sense.
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21:23 nine_ This fixed all strange errors of Task::Star modules. The remaining errors are all about @*INC in tests
21:23 jnthn OK :)
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21:33 dalek roast: 3966e1b | jnthn++ | S17-supply/basic.t:
21:33 dalek roast: A bunch more supply protocol tests.
21:33 dalek roast:
21:33 dalek roast: Including making sure that an observer will never see an emit after
21:33 dalek roast: seeing a done or a quit - at least, not unless somebody goes out of
21:33 dalek roast: their way to make this happen. Covers RT #123477.
21:33 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3966e1b2f9
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21:42 dalek roast: d430474 | jnthn++ | S02-names-vars/names.t:
21:42 dalek roast: Tests for RT #113892 and RT #115608.
21:42 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d430474748
21:46 espadrine_ joined #perl6
21:47 lizmat jnthn: is it correct that a number of supply related tests fail ?
21:47 jnthn lizmat: It's platform specific.
21:47 bjz joined #perl6
21:47 jnthn lizmat: They're fine on Windows.
21:47 jnthn I'd not have merged otherwise.
21:47 lizmat :-(
21:47 jnthn Probbly some stupid posixism
21:47 lizmat ok, will check up on them on OSX
21:47 jnthn I did enough debugging today.
21:48 jnthn And libuv just does an abort(). Presumably there is an error string that comes back from pthreads.
21:48 lizmat well, time to take it from you then
21:49 jnthn OK :)
21:49 lizmat argh, another harness related failure, it seems  :-(
21:49 jnthn Note that a few tests still having timing-related issues that can fail under stress
21:49 jnthn But nwc10 reported something that's different to that.
21:49 jnthn I suspect helgrind will provide good diagnostics on that case.
21:50 jnthn The tests for batch, elems, and unique (at least) could do with using the FakeScheduler that I used for interval.t.
21:50 jnthn I can appreciate we want to test that ThreadPoolScheduler does, in fact, do something vaguely right with regard to wallclock time
21:50 jnthn But we don't need to test that over and over again in the supply/promise tests.
21:51 jnthn So I'm fairly comfortable writing those tests in "virtual time"
21:53 raiph joined #perl6
21:53 lizmat ok, will look at that tomorrow, don't think I'll be doing much more today
21:54 jnthn Yeah, me either.
21:54 rindolf joined #perl6
21:54 jnthn TimToady: Next little ruling request: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=120916 :)
21:55 lizmat jnthn: Supply.tail defaults to 1, List.tail enforces the number
21:55 lizmat jnthn: which one will I adapt ?
21:55 jnthn TimToady: Ticket wants "has $.foo = ..." to mean...something...I don't even... :)
21:56 jnthn TimToady: I don't actually see what it sensibly can mean. There's no way to actual provide that initializer in the class body.
21:56 jnthn TimToady: So I'm happy enough with "current behavior is fine, if you put stub code there it'll just behave like stub code anywhere else".
21:57 jnthn (With the exception of method bodies in roles, which become requirements I guess...but there's a way to provide those...)
21:57 lizmat jnthn: should there be a "done" in a LAST block ?
21:57 Zoffix left #perl6
21:57 lizmat Supply.elems has one, Supply.tail doesn't ?
21:58 jnthn lizmat: I think defaulting to 1 is nicely consistent with head...
21:58 lizmat ok
21:58 lizmat and wrt to "done"
21:58 lizmat ?
21:58 arnsholt jnthn: I have a super-weird segfault issue on MoarVM, but seemingly weird changes (like changing the name of the compilation unit) make it go away. Hopefully I'll find a reliable testcase
21:58 jnthn lizmat: "It's complicated."
21:59 rurban joined #perl6
21:59 jnthn lizmat: Well, not really, but... :)
21:59 jnthn lizmat: supply blocks try to have good defaults. The rule is: when you reach 0 active whenever blocks, then it automatically does "done" for you.
21:59 arnsholt Somehow the REPR data of a CStruct type is NULL when initialize is called. I'm suspecting an uncomposed type, or some such
21:59 jnthn lizmat: So elems probably doesn't need it either.
22:00 jnthn lizmat: It doesn't hurt to have it, of course.
22:00 lizmat well, if it isn't needed, then it shouldn't be there
22:00 jnthn lizmat: The place you *need* it is if you want to issue "done" when other whenever blocks remain active.
22:00 lizmat there's enough cargo cultiing in the world already  :-)
22:00 jnthn Yeah, I ported them closely from the "on" syntax with an eye to keeping them working :-)
22:01 jnthn But elems is a fairly clear "nah, don't need it" :)
22:01 lizmat gotcha  :-)
22:01 colomon joined #perl6
22:01 lizmat makes the LAST easier as well:
22:01 lizmat LAST emit($elems) if $elems != $last_elems;
22:02 jnthn Yeah, but put a { ... } around it
22:02 jnthn I think there's a bug lingering :(
22:03 lizmat ok, will check
22:04 hankache joined #perl6
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: 05bd97c | lizmat++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Model Supply.tail like List.tail
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/05bd97ccb8
22:05 lsm-desktop joined #perl6
22:08 rigsby joined #perl6
22:10 hankache good evening
22:10 lizmat hankache o/
22:11 hankache ohai lizmat
22:12 timotimo │ src/6model/reprs/ReentrantMutex.c:43
22:12 timotimo │ src/6model/reprs/ReentrantMutex.c:43
22:12 llfourn joined #perl6
22:12 jnthn timotimo: ? :)
22:12 * jnthn can reliably reproduce RT #125515, and will work on that tomorrow
22:13 doublec joined #perl6
22:13 dalek rakudo/nom: 7d636cf | lizmat++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
22:13 dalek rakudo/nom: Streamline Supply.elems
22:13 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7d636cfc11
22:17 Zoffix joined #perl6
22:17 dalek rakudo/nom: 327cbf0 | lizmat++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
22:17 dalek rakudo/nom: Allow for List.tail(), aligning with Supply.tail
22:17 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/327cbf015a
22:18 dalek roast: b599905 | lizmat++ | S32-list/tail.t:
22:18 dalek roast: Add tests for List.tail()
22:18 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b599905b66
22:20 arnsholt Ooooooooh.
22:21 Zoffix left #perl6
22:21 arnsholt jnthn: Having a class named Parameter breaks all the things. Bug?
22:21 Skarsnik lol
22:21 jnthn arnsholt: We resolving a bunch of built-in names lexically
22:21 jnthn So if you shadow them...
22:21 lizmat m: say Parameter.WHAT
22:21 camelia rakudo-moar 05bd97: OUTPUT«(Parameter)␤»
22:22 jnthn Same with Code, fwiw
22:22 arnsholt Right, right. Just wanted to make sure
22:22 jnthn We could choose to always look directly in the setting for such symbols.
22:22 jnthn But when I've floated it in the past I've never got a clear "yes" from TimToady
22:23 arnsholt That's more or less how Python works, FWIW
22:23 jnthn Probably 'cus he can argue it both ways, like I can :P
22:23 lizmat prefix this built-in with an R ?
22:23 jnthn ?
22:24 lizmat if the builtin Parameter would be called RParameter, there wouldn'r have been a conflict
22:24 jnthn Yeah but that's ugly :P
22:24 lizmat agree
22:24 lizmat :-)
22:25 lizmat but having bad things happen with common names such as Parameter and Code, is maybe worse
22:25 jnthn Basically we'd just be forcing people to write a custom setting if they wanted to replace certain things
22:25 Skarsnik but if you want to have a RParameter class!
22:25 lizmat Skarsnik: less likely, but yeah, get your point :-)
22:25 jnthn Who'd create a project that just puts an R at the start of something? :P
22:26 Skarsnik why not just warn/error when it's done?
22:26 Skarsnik m: class Parameter {};
22:26 camelia rakudo-moar 05bd97: ( no output )
22:26 jnthn 'cus we don't want to totally prevent it
22:26 jnthn I think for certain things having to write a custom setting to override them is fine though
22:26 Skarsnik I mean a warning like when you write my $foo; my $foo
22:27 jnthn And we'll skip looking through lexical scopes we're in and go straight to the setting scope.
22:27 jnthn Because this situation isn't like tht
22:27 jnthn It's like my $foo; { my $foo; }
22:27 jnthn Because the built-ins are considered an outer scope to your program.
22:28 jnthn I already made exception resolution do this 'cus people were writing a class X and hosing error reporting :)
22:28 jnthn (For compiler-generated exceptions, that is)
22:28 timotimo excuse the cat on the keyboard please
22:28 dalek rakudo/nom: 4a5e549 | lizmat++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
22:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Allow List.head() to align with List.tail()
22:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4a5e549bbb
22:29 jnthn timotimo: I don't mind the cat being on the keyboard, but can't he fix a bug or two while there?
22:29 dalek roast: 76eac4d | lizmat++ | S32-list/head.t:
22:29 dalek roast: Add tests for List.head()
22:29 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/76eac4dd9b
22:29 timotimo :)
22:30 * jnthn notes we're down to 31 xmas RTs
22:30 jnthn Should get under 30 tomorrow :)
22:31 jnthn m: say "Need to fix {31 / 28} a day if we're to do 'em all by 24th :P"
22:31 camelia rakudo-moar 05bd97: OUTPUT«Need to fix 1.107143 a day if we're to do 'em all by 24th :P␤»
22:32 dalek doc: 15957e1 | lizmat++ | doc/Type/List.pod:
22:32 dalek doc: Update doc on List.head/tail
22:32 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/15957e1c6b
22:34 jnthn 'night, #perl6
22:34 Skarsnik good night
22:37 lizmat gnight jnthn
22:43 TimToady joined #perl6
22:45 dalek roast: 397ddee | lizmat++ | S17-supply/head.t:
22:45 dalek roast: Add tests for Supply.head
22:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/397ddee20c
22:46 sufrostico joined #perl6
22:48 timotimo │ src/6model/reprs/ReentrantMutex.c:43
22:48 timotimo ... ...
22:48 lizmat .tell jnthn supply test fails on OS X seem to be related to setting $*SCHEDULER
22:48 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
22:48 Skarsnik You can can copy paste? x)
22:48 Skarsnik *Your cat
22:49 stmuk "staring like a cat at a perl advent calender"
22:49 lizmat .tell jnthn could it be some missing decont on $*SCHEDULER maybe ?
22:49 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
22:51 bowtie joined #perl6
22:53 sufrosti1o joined #perl6
22:54 Khisanth joined #perl6
22:56 dalek rakudo/nom: 9baad52 | lizmat++ | / (2 files):
22:56 dalek rakudo/nom: Add Supply.head + run tests
22:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9baad52565
22:57 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 7586865 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | t/03-app/00-startup-variants.t:
22:57 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Fix incorrect test coverage
22:57 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/75868659d7
23:00 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 220a336 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source.pm:
23:00 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Remove useless code
23:00 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/220a336d3e
23:07 lizmat .tell jnthn question: should you be able to last out of a whenever block without further consequences ?
23:07 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
23:08 dalek rakudo/nom: 39869f1 | lizmat++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
23:08 dalek rakudo/nom: We don't need an empty whenever block
23:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/39869f1bc1
23:10 pink_mist lizmat: "further consequences"? the whenever block should stop doing things
23:11 lizmat well, it appears that the Supply.head tests run ok in the test harness if there is *no* last out of the whenever block
23:13 dalek doc: a87a9b0 | lizmat++ | doc/Type/Supply.pod:
23:13 dalek doc: Add doc stubs for Supply.head/tail
23:13 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a87a9b0fbc
23:14 snarkyboojum joined #perl6
23:14 lizmat good night, #perl6!
23:17 isacloud joined #perl6
23:20 DrParis joined #perl6
23:23 AlexDaniel m: say 2**⁸
23:23 camelia rakudo-moar 9baad5: OUTPUT«256␤»
23:23 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: c4ce087 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source/GitHub.pm:
23:23 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Do not use GitHub"s repo desc as distro description
23:23 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/c4ce0876af
23:23 AlexDaniel m: my $y = 2; say ++$y²³;
23:23 camelia rakudo-moar 9baad5: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/86Kdt5oAbM␤Operators '++' and '²³' are non-associative and require parentheses␤at /tmp/86Kdt5oAbM:1␤------> 3my $y = 2; say ++$y²³7⏏5;␤    expecting any of:␤        postfix␤»
23:24 AlexDaniel m: my $y = 2; say $y++⁸;
23:24 camelia rakudo-moar 9baad5: OUTPUT«256␤»
23:36 mrsolo joined #perl6
23:37 noganex joined #perl6
23:37 Khisanth joined #perl6
23:43 n0xff joined #perl6
23:45 stmuk_ joined #perl6
23:46 mattp_ joined #perl6
23:47 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 69d956b | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (3 files):
23:47 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Improve test coverage for Dist Source baseclass (JSON parse errors and other)
23:47 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/69d956b3ba
23:47 krakan joined #perl6
23:48 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: 9147746 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source/GitHub.pm:
23:48 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: Remove debug code
23:48 dalek modules.perl6.org/new-db-builder: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/9147746ffb
23:50 telex joined #perl6
23:51 gfldex .tell moritz i would like to book a day in advent, but don't know how!
23:51 yoleaux gfldex: I'll pass your message to moritz.
23:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: 33fe841 | coke++ | / (9 files):
23:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
23:53 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/33fe84130a
23:53 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 578d8c1 | coke++ | log/ (2 files):
23:53 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
23:53 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/578d8c12d7
23:53 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 5fd76ef | coke++ | log/ (2 files):
23:53 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
23:53 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/5fd76ef7b3
23:58 telex joined #perl6
23:58 * [Coke] waves from a car /j

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