Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-12-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 AlexDaniel Skarsnik: so I nuked everything and now it works
00:01 AlexDaniel Skarsnik: thanks
00:02 dalek rakudo/nom: e360bd2 | TimToady++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
00:02 dalek rakudo/nom: arrays don't interpolate without brackets
00:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e360bd21b0
00:02 AlexDaniel TimToady: “nsupported”
00:03 AlexDaniel aaah
00:03 AlexDaniel there's U
00:03 AlexDaniel hehe
00:06 cygx 'night o/
00:07 vendethiel- joined #perl6
00:08 TimToady not my code, just trying to make it actually work, while figuring out why the corresponding test in adverb.t always fails
00:08 TimToady (but only under load)
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00:09 TimToady I might just comment out those test for now, just to get the regression tests cleaner
00:10 TimToady in any case, those tests don't seem to be testing what we want to test at the moment
00:14 dalek doc: 9edcf11 | skids++ | doc/Language/control.pod:
00:14 dalek doc: Document return value of loop statement
00:14 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9edcf116a6
00:15 awwaiid m: say (:x, :y, :z)
00:15 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(x => True y => True z => True)␤»
00:15 awwaiid what does space separating them even mean?
00:16 TimToady hmm, no, just commenting the tests moves the failure to a different test, huh
00:18 dalek doc: 6e322dc | skids++ | doc/Language/control.pod:
00:18 dalek doc: Document return value of while/repeat loops.
00:18 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6e322dc052
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00:22 Skarsnik hm, does we have access to internal stuff with nqp (like memory address of object?)
00:22 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
00:24 TimToady sure, but you can't depend on the address staying the same
00:24 skids Skarsnik: objects do not necessarily have a memory address, they can be relocated by the VM.
00:25 Skarsnik It's more the other way around. I was thinking on how to create Blob with NC. like maybe set the memory address and let the user set the size?
00:25 skids Skarsnik: specific stuff like handles from C libraries might be accessiblt through nativecast-ish things.
00:26 skids I did something like that in Sum for one of the hash libs.
00:27 Skarsnik It's not really what I want. I want to return Blob (like in DBIIsh) to the user when dealing with binary data
00:28 skids Right.
00:28 Skarsnik I could probably return a CArray[int8] but it's not nice x)
00:30 skids Yeah looking at my code, I used a CArray and then copied t into a blob for the user.
00:30 RabidGravy Bah
00:30 Skarsnik actually depending on when mysql and other free the memory returned it might be the solution
00:31 skids https://github.com/skids/perl6sum/blob/master/lib/Sum/libmhash.pm6#L254
00:31 RabidGravy Merry Xmas, I'm going to bed. Too beered up to fix these last two modules
00:32 llfourn joined #perl6
00:32 diakopter RabidGravy++ # 'nite
00:32 Skarsnik Goog night then
00:32 Skarsnik and me too ^^
00:32 ZoffixWin night
00:33 * Skarsnik hope tomorrow something will work x)
00:35 skids Hrm darn, my old trick for testing code in pod synopsis got broken.
00:39 BooK merry christmas #perl6
00:39 BooK not sure if I'm early or late
00:43 leont Late for the solstice, early for the full moon ;-)
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00:50 leont Ouch, the Dutch wikipedia page on Perl 6 is quite outdated, it mentions parrot as "an important part of the Perl 6 platform" (it also mentions Pugs as a current thing)
00:50 hima joined #perl6
00:53 AlexDaniel leont: I see no pages in other languages though
00:53 AlexDaniel leont: here, I mean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6
00:53 diakopter leont: it's had only 1.5 views/day the past 90 days: http://stats.grok.se/nl/201512/Perl_6
00:53 AlexDaniel leont: “Languages” list is empty
00:53 diakopter er I mean http://stats.grok.se/nl/latest90/Perl_6
00:54 leont Well, given the upcoming release, it may suddenly be a lot more pretty soon
00:56 skids "NativeCall: Consider adding the api version of the library you want to use" any way  to silence that if you detect lib version at runtime?
00:56 AlexDaniel leont: looking at Perl 6 page in other languages I see that most of them are outdated
00:57 AlexDaniel leont: honestly the amount of languages out there makes me sad :)
00:58 leont Spanish looks not that bad, and French looks definitely better than Dutch. Both are at least aware of Rakudo
00:59 thomax i miss perl 6 on https://wiki.theory.org/YourLanguageSucks
00:59 diakopter oh noo
01:01 quux is this the new c2 wiki?
01:01 leont Norwegian is rather short, Finish and Czech do look like they need an update too
01:05 thomax the german perl 6 is embedded as a section in the perl page on the german wikipedia
01:07 Theophane hahaha
01:07 Theophane Erlang isn't in YourLanguageSucks
01:07 Theophane \o/
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01:12 RandalSchwartz kr24 in trouble?
01:12 RandalSchwartz getting DMA errors on my virtual disks
01:13 RandalSchwartz that's either noisy neighbor or RAID rebuild.
01:13 RandalSchwartz Ooops... wrong channel
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01:28 ZoffixWin gfldex++ # writing docs
01:29 seksi joined #perl6
01:30 seksi what's the news?
01:30 ZoffixWin seksi, we're about to release the language :)
01:30 seksi good, good
01:30 lustlife joined #perl6
01:30 ZoffixWin yeah, pretty awesome
01:31 AndyDee joined #perl6
01:31 seksi I retweeted Matz, if that helps
01:31 ZoffixWin No idea what 'Matz' is.. but if it's good... thanks :P
01:31 seksi but is there something to download?
01:32 seksi that Ruby guy
01:32 ZoffixWin seksi, there's the Rakudo compiler that implements the Perl 6 language we're about to release. You could download that. It's pretty much what'd you get when we do the actual release, plus or minus a couple of bugs: http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/
01:33 seksi Cool, will do!
01:33 llfourn joined #perl6
01:33 ZoffixWin (note: the premade packages are likely currently outdated due to super-rapid fixes and additions in the last couple of weeks; you should build from source)
01:34 thomax_ joined #perl6
01:34 * ZoffixWin resumes drinking and playing Warframe
01:34 RandalSchwartz left #perl6
01:35 seksi okay, I am going to look into that and keep watching...
01:35 * seksi goes back to whipping votes in the balls contest
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01:52 dalek doc: 46dd698 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
01:52 dalek doc: doc Reduction Operators
01:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/46dd6980aa
01:52 dalek doc: 06b5c0c | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/control.pod:
01:52 dalek doc: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master'
01:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/06b5c0cf6b
01:52 dalek doc: 7da5ed5 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
01:52 dalek doc: Merge pull request #268 from gfldex/master
01:52 dalek doc:
01:52 dalek doc: doc Reduction Operators
01:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7da5ed52dd
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02:35 skids m: role A { multi method a ($ where { $_.say; $_ ~~ /a/ } ) { "A".say }; multi method a ($ where { $_.say; $_ ~~ /b/ } ) { "B".say } }; class C does A { }; C.new.a("a");
02:35 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«a␤a␤A␤»
02:35 skids m: role A { multi method a ($ where { $_.say; $_ ~~ /a/ } ) { "A".say }; multi method a ($ where { $_.say; $_ ~~ /b/ } ) { "B".say } }; class C does A { }; C.new.a("b");
02:35 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«b␤Cannot call a(C.new: "b"); none of these signatures match:␤    (C $: $ where { ... }, *%_)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/xCHuJBsswV line 1␤␤»
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02:41 skids m: role A { multi method a ($ where { $_.say; $_ ~~ /a/ } ) { "A".say }; }; role B { multi method a ($ where { $_.say; $_ ~~ /b/ } ) { "B".say } }; class C does A does B { }; C.new.a("a");
02:41 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/dMwEKoUikS␤Multi method 'a' with signature :(C $: $ where { ... }, *%_) must be resolved by class C because it exists in multiple roles (B, A)␤at /tmp/dMwEKoUikS:1␤»
02:41 Mosai left #perl6
02:41 skids star: role A { multi method a ($ where { $_.say; $_ ~~ /a/ } ) { "A".say }; }; role B { multi method a ($ where { $_.say; $_ ~~ /b/ } ) { "B".say } }; class C does A does B { }; C.new.a("a");
02:41 camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«a␤a␤a␤A␤»
02:42 quux perl6mas!
02:45 gfldex quux: merry perl6max to you too
02:45 quux :F
02:45 quux :D
02:47 rickbike joined #perl6
02:48 BenGoldberg m: srand 1;(<a merry and We year new wish you chistmas, happy a>).pick(*).say;
02:48 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(We wish you a merry chistmas, and a happy new year)␤»
02:49 skids joined #perl6
02:51 BenGoldberg star: role A { multi method a ($ where { "A/$_".say; $_ ~~ /a/ } ) { "A".say }; }; role B { multi method a ($ where { "B/$_".say; $_ ~~ /b/ } ) { "B".say } }; class C does A does B { }; C.new.a("a");
02:51 camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«B/a␤A/a␤A/a␤A␤»
02:53 gfldex m: multi infix:<[~~]> (@c, WhateverCode &test) is looser(&infix:<~~>) { gather for @c { take $_ if test($_) } }; my @l = 1,'a',2,'b'; say @l [~~] (* ~~ Str);
02:53 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«WhateverCode.new␤»
02:53 a3r0 When does Perl6 get released? What time(UTC) exactly?
02:53 gfldex is there any way to make that work with WhateverCode?
02:53 gfldex a3r0: deadlines do not work
02:55 dalek doc: 79f4639 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
02:55 dalek doc: user defined example is more better
02:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/79f4639355
02:55 dalek doc: e278984 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | /:
02:55 dalek doc: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master'
02:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e278984dfa
02:55 dalek doc: 6960caf | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
02:55 dalek doc: Merge pull request #269 from gfldex/master
02:55 dalek doc:
02:55 dalek doc: user defined example of reduction operator
02:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6960caf754
02:55 AlexDaniel a3r0: what's your idea? Maybe there is a way to answer your question
03:00 ZoffixWin a3r0, whenever it's ready. It's the holiday season; pretty silly to ask for the exact time of the release of a project made by volunteers :P
03:01 ZoffixWin People have families and committments and all
03:01 AlexDaniel and I'd also like to know the precision of “exactly”
03:01 AlexDaniel hours? minutes? seconds? milliseconds?
03:02 ZoffixWin Clearly it's number of oscilation of Cesium atoms.. and if we don't get it right.. the whole project is doomed XD
03:03 AlexDaniel m: say now
03:03 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Instant:1451012617.630856␤»
03:08 AlexDaniel I'd be interesting to see random people coming in and judging the language by their standards. That's going to be fun. Heh, luckily we have enough crazy unicode features to make the world go “what?” for the next couple of days until they start seeing any flaws :)
03:10 jdv79 .tell lizmat why did we not borrow p5's meta spec more?
03:10 yoleaux jdv79: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
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03:27 jdv79 so if i have a string like "JSON::Slow:auth<cpan:*>:ver(1..*)" how do i parse that?
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04:06 skids jdv79: run perl6 --target=ast -e 'JSON::Slow:auth<cpan:*>:ver(1..*)'? :-)
04:06 flussence src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:2097 if you want to do it the hard way :)
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04:50 ugexe star: my @a = 1,2,3,4,5,6; my $b = [1,2,3]; say @a[$b>>.item]
04:50 camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«(2 3 4)␤»
04:50 ugexe m: my @a = 1,2,3,4,5,6; my $b = [1,2,3]; say @a[$b>>.item]
04:50 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«4␤»
04:51 ugexe is the new behavior expected?
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04:54 skids m: my $b = [1,2,3]; ($b».item).perl.say;
04:54 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«$[1, 2, 3]␤»
04:54 skids star: my $b = [1,2,3]; ($b».item).perl.say;
04:54 camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]␤»
04:56 skids m: (?«[1,2,3]).perl.say
04:56 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«[Bool::True, Bool::True, Bool::True]␤»
04:56 skids star: (?«[1,2,3]).perl.say
04:56 camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«[Bool::True, Bool::True, Bool::True]␤»
04:56 sgt_baker joined #perl6
04:56 AlexDaniel m: my @a = 1..6; my $b = [1,2,3]; say @a[$b[*]]
04:56 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(2 3 4)␤»
04:56 AlexDaniel m: my @a = 1..6; my $b = [1,2,3]; say @a[$b]
04:56 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«4␤»
04:57 xinming_ joined #perl6
04:58 AlexDaniel m: my @a = 1..6; my $b = [1,2,3]; say @a[@$b]
04:58 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(2 3 4)␤»
04:59 AlexDaniel ugexe: well, all I can say is that other alternatives are much more readable
04:59 mohae joined #perl6
04:59 ugexe sure. but is the change of behavior expected
04:59 AlexDaniel star: my @a = 1..6; my $b = [1,2,3]; say @a[@$b]
04:59 camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«(2 3 4)␤»
05:00 AlexDaniel star: my @a = 1..6; my $b = [1,2,3]; say @a[$b[*]]
05:00 camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«(2 3 4)␤»
05:00 AlexDaniel star: my @a = 1..6; my $b = [1,2,3]; say @a[$b]
05:00 camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«4␤»
05:00 AlexDaniel hm
05:07 thomax the channel star is a bit old, isn't it?
05:08 ugexe yes, thats why its being used to demonstrate old behavior
05:08 thomax ok
05:09 flussence m: my @a = 1,2,3,4,5,6; my $b = [1,2,3]; say @a[$b.flat]
05:09 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(2 3 4)␤»
05:10 flussence glr happened since then
05:10 thomax glr?
05:11 ugexe @a[$b>>.item] worked after glr. it worked last month even
05:11 thomax what is glr?
05:11 AlexDaniel m: my @a = 1,2,3,4,5,6; my $b = [1,2,3]; say @a[|$b]
05:11 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(2 3 4)␤»
05:11 AlexDaniel thomax: Great List Refactor
05:12 skids star: (1,).perl.say # I think star is post-glr
05:12 camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«(1,)␤»
05:12 thomax oha
05:12 flussence https://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/day-15-2015-the-year-of-the-great-list-refactor
05:12 AlexDaniel 2015.09 is post-glr? I doubt it
05:13 skids star: my @d = 1,2,3; (|@d).perl.say
05:13 camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3)␤»
05:13 skids Pre GLR then
05:13 skids But it is surprising that ». is itemized and ?« not
05:14 flussence yeah, I thought » sorta-flattened too
05:14 ugexe a module i have broke within the last month due to that change
05:14 flussence maybe adding shaped arrays changed how it behaves in this one case
05:15 thomax oha
05:15 ugexe im more just pointing it out in case it should actually still work
05:15 skids Oh duh
05:16 AlexDaniel hmm looking at the dates, it seems like 2015.09 should be post-GLR
05:16 skids m: $b = [1,2,3]; $b».say;
05:16 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/j28g9to12U␤Variable '$b' is not declared␤at /tmp/j28g9to12U:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5$b = [1,2,3]; $b».say;␤»
05:16 AlexDaniel my
05:16 flussence yeah, changing my guess to NSA now that I remembered it :)
05:16 skids m: my $b = [1,2,3]; $b».say;
05:16 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
05:16 skids m: my @b = 1,2,3; @b».say;
05:16 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
05:17 skids Hmm.
05:18 skids m: my $b = [1,2,3]; $b».perl.say
05:18 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«[1 2 3]␤»
05:25 thomax m: my $h.{k} = 1; # the use of quotes for hashes is mandatory (if key isn't a var) ?
05:25 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/I0UBOVj_SK␤Undeclared routine:␤    k used at line 1␤␤»
05:26 thomax thats not sooo good.
05:26 skids thomax: use angle quotes for barword strings
05:27 skids m: m: my $h.<k> = 1; $h.perl.say;
05:27 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«${:k(1)}␤»
05:27 thomax quotes are quotes.
05:27 thomax aah, ok
05:27 thomax angle brackets.
05:28 skids So it would make sense if $b did not get iterated by ».  But that does not match with $b».say iterating.
05:29 skids m: my \b = [1,2,3]; (b».item).perl.say
05:29 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]␤»
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05:32 thomax is there a 'pretty' dd with vertical output and horizontal  indents?
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05:49 TimToady I think the point is that hypers are supposed to keep the structure of the thing hypered, so it keeps the $
05:49 hankache hello #perl6
05:51 hankache m: say(0,3 ... 10);
05:51 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9)␤»
05:52 hankache m: say(0, { $_ + 3 } ... 10);
05:52 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30 33 36 39 42 45 48 51 54 57 60 63 66 69 72 75 78 81 84 87 90 93 96 99 102 105 108 111 114 117 120 123 126 129 132 135 138 141 144 147 150 153 156 159 162 165 168 171 174 177 180 183 186 189 192 195 198 201 204 207 210 213 216 2…»
05:52 hankache TimToady we had a discussion yesterday about the above 2 lines ^^
05:53 hankache what's your opinion?
05:53 TimToady it's quite intentional and it's like not changing
05:53 TimToady we went through lots of trials before settling on that
05:53 TimToady *likely
05:54 hankache oki dokey
05:54 TimToady if we deduce the function ourselves, we can know whether it's monotonic
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05:54 TimToady if don't, we can't, in general
05:55 hankache TimToady thanks
05:55 hankache just wanted to make sure it is not a bug that will be fixed later
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05:57 TimToady for instance, the http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Stern-Brocot_sequence#Perl_6 entry shows a sequence that is not monotonic
05:59 hankache yes
05:59 thomax TimToady: but is there another way to limit the calculations?
06:00 TimToady don't ask for all the values?  It's just a lazy list
06:00 TimToady m: say (1,3...*)[^10]
06:00 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19)␤»
06:01 TimToady and if you know it's monotonic, you can supply your own inequality
06:01 TimToady m: say (1,3...^ * > 100)
06:01 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19 21 23 25 27 29 31 33 35 37 39 41 43 45 47 49 51 53 55 57 59 61 63 65 67 69 71 73 75 77 79 81 83 85 87 89 91 93 95 97 99)␤»
06:01 hankache m: say (1,3...*)[10]
06:01 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«21␤»
06:01 hankache m: say (1,3...*)[9]
06:01 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«19␤»
06:02 TimToady ^10 is short for 0..^10
06:02 hankache TimToady++
06:05 AlexDaniel m: say 1,3 ...^ { 0.95 < rand }
06:05 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(1 3 5 7 9 11)␤»
06:05 AlexDaniel m: say 1,3 ...^ { 0.95 < rand }
06:05 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19 21 23 25 27 29 31 33 35 37 39 41 43)␤»
06:05 AlexDaniel m: say 1,3 ...^ { 0.95 < rand }
06:05 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19)␤»
06:05 AlexDaniel no need to use ^ though
06:07 hankache AlexDaniel you would need ^ for exclusion
06:07 hankache m: say(0, { $_ + 3 } ...^ * > 10);
06:07 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9)␤»
06:07 hankache m: say(0, { $_ + 3 } ... * > 10);
06:07 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12)␤»
06:07 AlexDaniel hankache: sure, but not that I need that with rand
06:07 hankache see ^^
06:08 hankache AlexDaniel well yeah with rand it's useless
06:10 hankache i need some kind of definition for routine/subroutine/function/method
06:11 thomax i guess the book publishers are happy with perl 6 official release. so many little, tiny operator differences to explain.
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06:22 thomax and back to dd again: not only the 'pretty' output but also it should replace storables. but how? is it efficient to read/write dd output to/from a file? in opposite to a 'pretty' output i miss a binary, dense, output. am i'm completely wrong with that?
06:24 hankache thomax show us what are you trying to do
06:25 hankache maybe we can help
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06:28 thomax hankache: actually i just settle my mind on concepts. what is possible in p5 and how to achieve the same in p6. like the dd output in p6 is on one line and didn't support human readers very well. but when i like to use it to (re)store huge data structures, it will not be efficient enough.
06:28 hankache thomax have you tried Data::Dump
06:28 hankache ?
06:29 thomax in p5, yes. and also storable
06:29 hankache https://github.com/tony-o/perl6-data-dump
06:30 hankache you can install it using panda
06:30 thomax oh! there is a data::dump module! i've skipped that because i saw the many dd usage on here.
06:31 hankache thomax for one liners we use dd
06:32 thomax hankache: actually i don't have rakudo installed localy, you guys and camelia help me a lot to understand some concepts in one-liners.
06:33 hankache thomax i am glad we're being helpful
06:34 hankache if you can install rakudo locally you'll have more fun ;)
06:35 thomax sure you are. i appreciate that
06:36 hankache :)
06:36 thomax well, i wait just 1 or 2 month to get my hands on it. first i need to try to catch some of the new ideas. just by hang out here or read blogs/tutorials
06:37 hankache have you read perl6intro.com ?
06:38 thomax yes, and also operators, diffs betwen p5 and p6 and some other parts of the doc.
06:39 hankache excellent
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06:41 thomax yes, and i like to read docs when they are enriched with pet examples. other examples are welcome to.
06:41 hankache pet examples?
06:41 thomax cats and dogs with tails and sounds..
06:43 hankache oh lol
06:45 thomax ok, time to make some music
06:46 hankache see you later thomax
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06:49 pdcawley Anyone got any good examples of writing ones own WHICH? Trying to make a value object that'll behave nicely in a set.
06:50 pdcawley Merry christmas all, btw.
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06:53 bartolin_ .tell TimToady there is RT #126823 for the failing test in adverbs.t
06:53 yoleaux bartolin_: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
06:53 bartolin_ also: merry christmas, #perl6
06:54 molaf joined #perl6
06:55 hankache ho ho ho Merry Christmas
06:56 labster joined #perl6
06:57 skids m: "HO!" xx 3
06:57 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: ( no output )
06:57 skids m: say "HO!" xx 3
06:57 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(HO! HO! HO!)␤»
06:57 hankache m: say "HO" x 3;
06:57 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«HOHOHO␤»
06:58 hankache didn't know there was also xx
06:58 hankache skids++
06:59 pdcawley m: class Value { has $.thing }; say Value.new(thing:<a>) === Value.new(thing:<a>)
06:59 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/_T3ehkEsyT␤Undeclared routine:␤    thing:<a> used at line 1␤␤»
06:59 pdcawley m: class Value { has $.thing }; say Value.new(thing => 'a') === Value.new(thing => 'b')
06:59 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«False␤»
06:59 pdcawley I shall get :thing<a> internalized eventually.
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07:00 pdcawley m: class Value { has $.thing; method WHICH { $.thing } }; say Value.new(thing => 'a') === Value.new(thing => 'b')
07:00 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«False␤»
07:00 skids pdcawley: value objects are currently a bit on the hard side to do.  Unless you can define it as a subset.
07:00 AlexDaniel m: say (1..5).reverse.map(‘H’ ~ ‘O’ x * ~ ‘!’)
07:00 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(HOOOOO! HOOOO! HOOO! HOO! HO!)␤»
07:00 pdcawley 'define it as a subset'?
07:01 pdcawley m: {:thing<a>} === {:thing<b>}
07:01 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/4fDYGRYZ8d:␤Useless use of "===" in expression "{:thing<a>} === {:thing<b>}" in sink context (line 1)␤»
07:01 pdcawley m: say {:thing<a>} === {:thing<b>}
07:01 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«False␤»
07:02 pdcawley Is there a way of specifying the equality test for a Setty thing?
07:02 skids e.g. just a restirctions on an existing value type.  "subset Foo of Int where * > 3"
07:03 skids Eventually the MOP will probably catch up with value types.
07:04 pdcawley skids: So, instead of using an object, use a tuple?
07:04 pdcawley m: say [1,2] == [1,2]
07:04 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«True␤»
07:06 pdcawley skids: Can I declare a type alias for restricted length array?
07:06 skids m: class A is Int { }; say A.new(3) == A.new(3);
07:06 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«True␤»
07:06 pdcawley skids: So... if I'm wanting an array of four values, each value can be an array of four values or undefined...
07:07 pdcawley m: class A is Array where *.elems == 4; say A.new()
07:07 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/SplHHToxYR␤Unable to parse class definition␤at /tmp/SplHHToxYR:1␤------> 3class A is Array7⏏5 where *.elems == 4; say A.new()␤»
07:08 pdcawley m: class A is Array where *.elems == 4; say A.new(1,2,3,4)
07:08 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/iYbjZhuEyO␤Unable to parse class definition␤at /tmp/iYbjZhuEyO:1␤------> 3class A is Array7⏏5 where *.elems == 4; say A.new(1,2,3,4)␤»
07:08 pdcawley m: class A is Array where *.elems == 4 {}; say A.new(1,2,3,4)
07:08 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/KxmmJ7_Ljm␤Unable to parse class definition␤at /tmp/KxmmJ7_Ljm:1␤------> 3class A is Array7⏏5 where *.elems == 4 {}; say A.new(1,2,3,␤»
07:08 * pdcawley stops thrashing and returns to the docs :)
07:10 AlexDaniel m: say (5...1).map(‘H’ ~ ‘O’ x * ~ ‘!’) # Oh! that's a bit shorter
07:10 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(HOOOOO! HOOOO! HOOO! HOO! HO!)␤»
07:12 b2gills m: subset A of Array where *.elems == 4; say [1,2,3,4] ~~ A
07:12 b2gills m: subset A of Array where :($,$,$,$); say [1,2,3,4] ~~ A
07:12 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«True␤»
07:12 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«True␤»
07:13 timotimo Failed to create directory '/' with mode '0o777': Failed to mkdir: 2
07:13 timotimo does that seem like an improvement?
07:14 pdcawley m: subset A of Array where :(A,A,A,A); say [A,A,A,A] ~~ A
07:14 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/3iVlImxbTL␤Invalid typename 'A' in parameter declaration.␤at /tmp/3iVlImxbTL:1␤------> 3subset A of Array where :(A7⏏5,A,A,A); say [A,A,A,A] ~~ A␤»
07:14 pdcawley Dang!
07:14 AlexDaniel m: subset A of Array[4]
07:14 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/qenYWtMaDH␤An exception occurred while parameterizing Array␤at /tmp/qenYWtMaDH:1␤Exception details:␤  5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling ␤  Parameter 't' requires a type object of type Int, but …»
07:15 AlexDaniel ===SORRY!=== inside ===SORRY!===! We have to go deeper!
07:19 AlexDaniel hehe
07:19 AlexDaniel m: subset A of Any(); my A $x = Any
07:19 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $x; expected A but got Any␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ENmpWJ7sqW line 1␤␤»
07:19 AlexDaniel m: subset A of Any(); my A $x = Any()
07:19 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: ( no output )
07:19 AlexDaniel m: say Any().WHAT
07:19 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Method 'shortname' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::CoercionHOW'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/RluhwOwACR line 1␤␤»
07:19 skids m: my $a = 1 => 2 => 3 => 4; my $b = 1 => 2 => 3 => 4; say $a === $b; $a.perl.say # I feel dirty now
07:19 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«True␤1 => 2 => 3 => 4␤»
07:21 AlexDaniel skids: there's an easier way to write this
07:21 AlexDaniel m: my $a = [=>] 1..4; say $a.perl
07:21 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«1 => 2 => 3 => 4␤»
07:21 timotimo anyway, i'm running a spec test over my mkdir change
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07:22 AlexDaniel skids: I'm not sure why would you do that though :D
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07:31 timotimo moar now has a little sanity check in its mkdir_p implementation that prevents endless recursion when trying to mkdir /
07:34 skids timotimo++
07:34 ChoHag *Does* / always exist?
07:34 ChoHag What about win32?
07:35 timotimo psst
07:35 timotimo i don't have a win32 to test it on
07:35 timotimo are you interested in trying it out for me?
07:35 ChoHag Also, the fact that making directories is complicated in 2015 is depressilarious.
07:35 skids I think there / always exists but refers to the current drive.
07:35 ChoHag I don't have win32 either.
07:35 skids (and is \ :-)
07:35 timotimo skids: good thing i'm not checking for "/", but for ""
07:36 ChoHag Well I do, somewhere, but it's mostly used just to run enterprise apps and I haven't needed it for a few $orks now.
07:36 ChoHag I don't even know if it still works...
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07:49 awwaiid I got my REPL to fake dynamically create vars! Uses some crazy growing nested closures, https://github.com/awwaiid/p6-lrep/blob/master/lib/LREP.pm6#L32
07:50 awwaiid (an idea I saw in some perl5 REPLs, iirc)
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07:51 rindolf Hi all.
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07:55 ChoHag I have a magic string ("..." but Magic::Role) in order to add a few methods to it and make it subscriptable which all works out well enough except that now $magic ~~ /regex/ doesn't work, and even "$magic" ~~ /regex/ doesn't work, but "FUCK$magic" ~~ /FUCKregex/ does.
07:55 ChoHag How can I make sure that the smartmatch with a regex on the RHS matches against the plain old string?
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08:00 skids m: say "foo" does role { method foo { 42.say } } ~~ /foo/
08:00 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«「foo」␤»
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08:01 AlexDaniel ChoHag: what about ~$magic ?
08:01 AlexDaniel ChoHag: and also ‘’ ~ $magic
08:02 ChoHag I tried the former.
08:03 ChoHag ""~$magic works, ~$magic doesn't.
08:03 skids Wel, I can't get it to fail but -- you sure you want "but" and not "does"?
08:04 ChoHag I'm not entirely sure what the difference is. In some places I have but and in others does.
08:04 AlexDaniel ChoHag: $magic.Str ?
08:05 ChoHag Seems as though I've done does in "$foo does Magic" to change $foo, but but in "'foo' does Magic" when there was no variable.
08:05 ChoHag I should probably clear that up.
08:05 skids ChoHag: I woud tink but would make the object produce a punned role when asked to become that role.  "does" actually mixes in the role.
08:05 skids Unless but has been special-cased for roles.
08:06 skids m: say (1 but "foo")
08:06 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«foo␤»
08:06 ChoHag Where would I be able to read about their definitions?
08:09 RabidGravy Yeah, "but" with a role will create a copy of the applicant and apply a role to it, whereas does applies the role directly
08:09 skids Ah, OK, then but would be fine.
08:10 skids S14 is where they are describes
08:10 skids *d
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08:10 RabidGravy m: role Foo { method foor() { say "foo" }};  my $a = 1 but Foo;   say $a.foo;
08:10 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Method 'foo' not found for invocant of class 'Int+{Foo}'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/PYgZjxfsg3 line 1␤␤»
08:10 RabidGravy m: role Foo { method foor() { say "foo" }};  my $a = 1 but Foo;   say $a.foor;
08:10 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«foo␤True␤»
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08:12 ChoHag RabidGravy: So there's no practical difference between '$foo = "bar" but Role' and '$foo = "bar" does Role'?
08:13 skids You can use "but" on 1.
08:13 skids Though, it doesn't seem to complain when you use "does" hmm.
08:14 ChoHag Hah! S14 is marked Draft...
08:14 RabidGravy m: role Foo { method foor() { say "foo" }};  my $a = 1 does Foo;   say $a.foor;
08:14 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«foo␤True␤»
08:14 RabidGravy m: role Foo { method foor() { say "foo" }};  my $a = 1 does Foo;   say $a;
08:14 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«1␤»
08:14 Hotkeys Has 6.c released yet?
08:14 RabidGravy m: role Foo { method foor() { say "foo" }};  my $a = 1 does Foo;   say $a.WHAT;
08:14 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(Int+{Foo})␤»
08:14 Hotkeys I haven't been keeping up this week
08:14 skids Hotkeys: the compiler release log is https://gist.github.com/coke/dc55e617e76a6f7082f9
08:15 skids Time for me to hit the sack.
08:15 Hotkeys Exciting
08:16 RabidGravy if the RHS was a variable,  with does the RHS would have the role applied, with but it wouldn't
08:18 RabidGravy e.g.  $a = $b does Foo;  is like $b does Foo; $a = $b; whereas $a = $b but Foo; is like $a = $b; $a does Foo
08:18 RabidGravy in a sort of vague way
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08:52 st_iron hello
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08:53 hankache hello
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09:12 RabidGravy erp
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09:17 uruwi Hey, is there any reason why Channel.list couldn't be implemented by calling Channel.poll until the channel is empty?
09:20 hankache a lambda is a block right? or do we have something special for it?
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09:21 RabidGravy well, it's any anonymous sub in a generaly sense, but a single arg pointy block is the nearest to what lambda means in e.g. python I think
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09:23 hankache hm! RabidGravy where can i find doc about it?
09:23 hankache pointy block
09:24 andreoss m: my &z = -> { "hi "}; z.WHAT.say
09:24 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
09:25 andreoss m: my &z = -> { "hi "}; &z.WHAT.say
09:25 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(Block)␤»
09:27 RabidGravy http://doc.perl6.org/type/Block
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09:30 hankache thanks
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09:31 andreoss or p6doc Type::Block
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09:40 nine .tell TimToady adverb.t is even stranger than just load: it fails when run with PERL6LIB=lib,. as the harness does butvworks when run without
09:40 yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
09:42 peteretep I would like a cookbook on sneaking Perl 6 in to production
09:42 peteretep I might write that this fewtive season
09:42 Bleary joined #perl6
09:42 peteretep Get it in to Jenkins / whatever build system
09:42 peteretep Write a cron job in it
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09:43 peteretep Grease the groove a little
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09:47 ChoHag Ah there it is. My magic role does Iterable as well as Positional and both together are interfering with ~~ somehow.
09:47 ChoHag m: class I { method pull-one { IterationEnd } }; role Foo { also does Positional; also does Iterable; method iterator { I.new } }; say ("bar" but Foo) ~~ /a/;'
09:47 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/0B6tUkixfs␤Unable to parse expression in single quotes; couldn't find final "'" ␤at /tmp/0B6tUkixfs:1␤------> 3 I.new } }; say ("bar" but Foo) ~~ /a/;'7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        sing…»
09:47 ChoHag m: class I { method pull-one { IterationEnd } }; role Foo { also does Positional; also does Iterable; method iterator { I.new } }; say ("bar" but Foo) ~~ /a/;
09:47 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
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09:49 ChoHag Lose either one of the alsos, or concatenate "", and the result is the same (and what I want):
09:49 ChoHag m: class I { method pull-one { IterationEnd } }; role Foo { also does Positional; also does Iterable; method iterator { I.new } }; say ("" ~ ("bar" but Foo)) ~~ /a/;
09:49 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«「a」␤»
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09:49 [Tux] test             50000    23.555    23.442
09:49 [Tux] test-t           50000    12.970    12.856
09:49 [Tux] csv-parser       50000    50.512    50.399
09:50 ChoHag I think I'm reading the smartmatch table in S03 wrong though, because my understanding of that is that ~~ing a Positional with a Regex should fail.
09:52 ChoHag So why does a role with does both Positional and Iterable ~~ing to Nil, and how do I stop it and make it act like a string again (short of removing the magic altogether)?
09:53 ChoHag That sentence sucks, sorry.
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09:57 andreoss .seen masak
09:57 yoleaux I saw masak 22 Dec 2015 23:21Z in #perl6: <masak> 'night, #perl6
09:57 FROGGS_ m: (:w :h<1>) # I might tackle that today
09:57 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unknown QAST node type NQPMu␤»
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10:24 _nadim Good morning
10:25 hankache morning _nadim
10:25 _nadim :)
10:25 _nadim m: $s= 'a' ; say $s - 'a' ;
10:25 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/4eJ9rKEUwq␤Variable '$s' is not declared␤at /tmp/4eJ9rKEUwq:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5$s= 'a' ; say $s - 'a' ;␤»
10:25 _nadim m: my $s= 'a' ; say $s - 'a' ;
10:25 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5a' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/uWpRUOfacS line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/uWpRUOfacS line 1␤␤»
10:26 _nadim ^^ how does one do string arithmetics?
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10:28 hankache m: say -'a';
10:28 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5a' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/_ocmEDkzNz line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/_ocmEDkzNz line 1␤␤»
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10:28 _nadim I tried with .ords but I et an even weirder error
10:29 _nadim m: my $s= 'a' ; say $s.ords - 'a'.ords ;
10:29 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«0␤»
10:29 _nadim Hu! obviously not
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10:29 hankache say "a".ords
10:30 hankache m: say "a".ords
10:30 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«(97)␤»
10:30 cygx _nadim: ords returns an array, which numifies to the number of elements
10:30 cygx use singular .ord
10:30 hankache say ("b".ord)-1
10:30 hankache m: say ("b".ord)-1
10:30 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«97␤»
10:30 hankache wait!!
10:30 cygx m: say chr "b".ord - 1
10:30 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«a␤»
10:31 hankache m: say "a".succ
10:31 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«b␤»
10:31 hankache see ^^
10:31 hankache m: say "z".prev
10:31 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Method 'prev' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/DOzGiKuZ0n line 1␤␤»
10:31 hankache m: say "z".prec
10:31 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Method 'prec' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/MeC5AuF0Du line 1␤␤»
10:31 hankache what was it called
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10:32 hankache m: say "z".pred
10:32 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«y␤»
10:32 hankache voila
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10:37 _nadim "abc" ~~ s:g/ (<[ a..z ]>)/{<ᵃᵇᶜᵈᵉᶠᵍʰⁱʲᵏˡᵐⁿᵒᵖᵠʳˢᵗᵘᵛʷˣʸᶻ>[$0.ord - 'a'.ord]}/
10:38 _nadim m: "abc" ~~ s:g/ (<[ a..z ]>)/{<ᵃᵇᶜᵈᵉᶠᵍʰⁱʲᵏˡᵐⁿᵒᵖᵠʳˢᵗᵘᵛʷˣʸᶻ>[$0.ord - 'a'.ord]}/
10:38 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Index out of range. Is: 1, should be in 0..0␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/yqc1udEuS_ line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/yqc1udEuS_ line 1␤␤»
10:39 _nadim range 0..0?
10:41 _nadim m: "97354043" ~ s:g/(\d)/{ <⁰ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹>[~$0]}/
10:41 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/tX8PFYwWp_:␤Useless use of "~" in expression "\"97354043\" ~ s:g/(\\d)/{ <⁰ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹>[~$0]}/" in sink context (line 1)␤Method 'match' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tX8PFYwW…»
10:41 _nadim m: "97354043" ~~ s:g/(\d)/{ <⁰ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹>[~$0]}/
10:41 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Str␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/PaHB9QLriD line 1␤␤»
10:41 _nadim m: imy $s = "97354043"; $s ~~ s:g/(\d)/{ <⁰ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹>[~$0]}/
10:41 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/op1D4N6rRB␤Variable '$s' is not declared␤at /tmp/op1D4N6rRB:1␤------> 3imy 7⏏5$s = "97354043"; $s ~~ s:g/(\d)/{ <⁰ ¹ ²␤»
10:42 _nadim m: my $s = "97354043";  $s ~~ s:g/(\d)/{ <⁰ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹>[~$0]}/ ; $s.say
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«⁹⁷³⁵⁴⁰⁴³␤»
10:42 vv3 joined #perl6
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10:44 vv3 joined #perl6
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10:47 _nadim m: my $s = "abc"; $s ~~ s:g/ (<[ a..z ]>)/{<ᵃᵇᶜᵈᵉᶠᵍʰⁱʲᵏˡᵐⁿᵒᵖᵠʳˢᵗᵘᵛʷˣʸᶻ>[$0.ord - 'a'.ord]}/ ; $s.say
10:47 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Index out of range. Is: 1, should be in 0..0␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/KyEYFjIOFf line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/KyEYFjIOFf line 1␤␤»
10:48 _nadim how does < .... > get a valid range of 0 ..0?
10:50 vv3 joined #perl6
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10:52 _nadim OK, spaces needed
10:53 vv3 joined #perl6
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10:54 Fritz p6: say 3;
10:54 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«3␤»
10:54 Guest68567 nick: Fritz
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10:56 jdv79 how is it a ruby release tops hn?  is our release announce released yet?
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11:00 manu__ p6 : say hello
11:00 manu__ p6: say hello
11:00 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Undeclared routine:␤    hello used at line 1. Did you mean 'shell'?␤␤»
11:00 manu__ p6: say hello;
11:00 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Undeclared routine:␤    hello used at line 1. Did you mean 'shell'?␤␤»
11:00 vv3 joined #perl6
11:00 jdv79 m: say "hello"
11:00 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«hello␤»
11:01 vv3 joined #perl6
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11:12 Skarsnik Hello, merry 6.C
11:13 Zoffix jdv79, damn, that's kinda sucky. Ruby stealing the thunder
11:14 Zoffix OTOH, it demonstrates a good example of what *we* should have when we release. A good summary on the most likely page people will visit (perl6.org) that ends with "Download is HERE"
11:15 vv3 joined #perl6
11:15 andreoss m: DateTime.now.say
11:15 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«2015-12-25T12:15:57.767044+01:00␤»
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11:19 timotimo time for & with family rest of most of day ...
11:21 Zoffix ^ that's why holiday releases are a bad idea :P
11:21 Zoffix Both shortage of hands and shortage of people to receive the announcement :)
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11:25 Zoffix I'm thinking when we release, we should put something like this up for a month or so: http://i.imgur.com/gREpELF.png
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11:32 stmuk what about one of those web 2.0 "stickers" -- "Download here!"
11:32 vv3 joined #perl6
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11:33 stmuk or just swap the "Jump in!" box and Advent boxes?
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11:34 stmuk http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ is very wordy and confusing for n00bs IMO
11:35 Zoffix Yes, very.
11:36 Zoffix As for swapping boxes: I want something in-your-face that you see right away.
11:37 Zoffix I wonder why the advent box is missing from my screenshot :S I I thought I pulled
11:37 Zoffix Ah, pulled, but not built
11:38 Zoffix Time to unpack my presents \o/
11:39 a3r0 I'd like to see live countdown like http://imgs.ntd.tv/pic/2014/9-9/p3804171a192814384.jpg on http://perl6.org
11:39 vv3 joined #perl6
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11:40 Zoffix Ah! It's just what I always wanted: http://i.imgur.com/sM60het.jpg
11:41 vv3 joined #perl6
11:41 Zoffix a3r0, as there's no specific time when 6.c will be released, I'm unsure what that counter would count down to
11:42 vv3 joined #perl6
11:45 stmuk you could just make the "Download Rakudo Perl 6" red rather than blue
11:46 stmuk and move up page
11:47 stmuk note I'm not a web designer but I play one on IRC
11:47 vv3 joined #perl6
11:47 Zoffix heh
11:48 vv3 joined #perl6
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11:49 * stmuk "bought" gf a quadcopter :>
11:49 * Zoffix gifts vv3 a better router
11:50 Zoffix stmuk, why is bought in quotes? :)
11:50 vv3 joined #perl6
11:51 stmuk I may use it as well
11:51 stmuk ;)
11:51 Zoffix :)
11:51 Theophane :p
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11:53 Ulti the main improvement for release would be move the d/l button higher and have it actually download P6 for my specific OS not take me to a wordpress blog that starts with weird definitions of pedantic specifics about 100 people care about right now
11:53 Ulti if I click DOWNLOAD NOW and get taken to a weird definition of what JVM and something called MoarVM are I'm not going to care
11:53 Ulti (I would) but me the other 99% of people in the world wont
11:54 Zoffix Right, but last I heard, we won't have a R* release just yet, so the download stuff becomes problematic :/
11:54 Ulti im happy to write the stuff that works that out and gets the right link
11:54 stmuk well there will be no specific OS releases anyway
11:54 Zoffix Yeah
11:54 Zoffix Which sucks
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11:56 stmuk maybe just instructions on building from the tarball
11:56 vv3 joined #perl6
11:56 Ulti then have something like `curl -L https://get.perl6.org | sh` do a rakudobrew build and setup?
11:56 vv3 joined #perl6
11:57 Ulti since anyone on Windows will be screwed anyway if there isnt an MSI around
11:57 Zoffix ^ that would be fantastic
11:57 stmuk that won't happen today
11:57 vv3 joined #perl6
11:57 Ulti I made a tiny url version a while ago...
11:57 stmuk I'd favour a cutdown version of http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ which just explains the source build
11:58 stmuk maybe hosted on perl6.org and then a link to the original http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/
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11:59 kjs_ re how to get rakudo: Perhaps split up that page into several pages, one for each platform/target
11:59 stmuk there really is only one set of instructions for UNIX-type OSes
12:00 hankache if we can get an MSI for windows that would be great
12:00 jdv79 how do we not have an msi build?  i thought this release was planned for a long time.
12:00 hankache and a package for debian
12:00 Zoffix jdv79, holidays
12:00 Zoffix jdv79, people spending time with families and what not
12:00 jdv79 so we're releaseing on xmas but wait a few days or weeks until you can try it
12:01 Zoffix jdv79, we're releasing the language
12:01 jdv79 i know what is happening
12:01 Zoffix Compiler is a separate release, really.
12:01 stmuk any end users are going to be fairly technical at this point
12:01 jdv79 i also know there will be people seeing "oh shiny.  wait, i can't play now.  bye bye."
12:01 stmuk and familiar with building from source (mostly on linux)
12:02 jdv79 Zoffix: now you're making excuses too:)  you've been around here too long.
12:02 Zoffix Well, I heard that argument earlier and I think it's over-exaggerated about the fatality of not having something polished right here and right now
12:03 jdv79 its not the end of hte world for sure but it would have been better.
12:03 stmuk we don't even know what the tarball is going to be called .. I would guess rakudo-2015.12.tar.gz
12:03 Zoffix woulda coulda shoulda sure
12:03 * Zoffix does another shot
12:03 jdv79 you know someone is going to say "after fifteen years they can't even do a release well"
12:03 Zoffix Ahh....
12:04 stmuk jdv79: they will say that anyway
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12:04 jdv79 but i guess its done.  i would have volunteered to help if it i knew this in advance
12:04 Zoffix jdv79, and if we do have something, they'll complain about something else :)
12:04 jdv79 yeah yeah
12:04 jdv79 :)
12:04 stmuk Zoffix: are you planning on still linking directly to http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ from perl6.org?
12:05 vv3 joined #perl6
12:05 Zoffix I'm actually really excited to see jberger in here asking about release. I still remember having a very heated discussion with them about Perl 6 ruining everything :P
12:05 vv3 joined #perl6
12:05 Zoffix stmuk, I rather not, but I dunno what we're doing vis-a-vis announcements and all.
12:06 Zoffix Everyone's away. And by the time they come back I might be really wasted :P
12:06 vv3 joined #perl6
12:07 stmuk Zoffix: OK I will put up some shorter "install from source" instructions on a gist in an hour or two anyway
12:07 stmuk with the warning I'm also starting to drink soon ;)
12:07 Theophane ^^
12:08 jdv79 anyone know how to make the msi?  is there a instruction list?
12:08 stmuk jdv79: I have done it .. you need the free VS compiler from MS
12:08 hankache m: my @array = <0 1 2 3 4>; say @array>>.&is-prime;
12:08 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«[False False True True False]␤»
12:08 hankache m: my @array = <0 1 2 3 4>; say @array>>.is-prime;
12:08 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«[False False True True False]␤»
12:08 jdv79 or is there a from source way that would be easier for now
12:08 stmuk jdv79: slightly older ones seem to work better .. see irclog
12:09 jdv79 like "msi will be avail in a few days but here's how to build from src on win.."
12:09 stmuk jdv79: there are instructions in the tarball
12:09 hankache m: my @array = <0 1 2 3 4>; sub is-even($var) { $var %% 2 }; say @array>>.&is-even;
12:09 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«[True False True False True]␤»
12:09 hankache m: my @array = <0 1 2 3 4>; sub is-even($var) { $var %% 2 }; say @array>>.is-even;
12:09 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Method 'is-even' not found for invocant of class 'IntStr'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/AhehyKF0lY line 1␤␤»
12:09 hankache is it normal that in the above examples, a builtin routine doesn't need & and a user defined sub needs one?
12:10 RabidGravy I think the visual studio has an "installer project" target
12:10 Zoffix hankache, yes, because is-prime is also a method
12:10 Ulti trying this now curl -L http://tinyurl.com/get-rakudo | sh
12:10 RabidGravy or it did last time I used it
12:11 hankache thanks Zoffix
12:11 stmuk RabidGravy: I just used the windows dev command line and typed make
12:11 Ulti can always make a windows powershell version of that
12:11 hankache who was releasing the MSI's before?
12:12 Zoffix m: use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class IntStr { method is-even { self %% 2 };  }; my @array = <0 1 2 3 4>; say @array>>.is-even;
12:12 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«[True False True False True]␤»
12:12 stmuk or maybe nmake
12:12 vv3 joined #perl6
12:12 hankache Zoffix++
12:13 Zoffix hankache, note that it's strongly discouraged to do the MONKEY-TYPING stuff :)
12:13 vv3 joined #perl6
12:13 Zoffix http://doc.perl6.org/syntax/augment
12:13 hankache Zoffix I know, everything that hjas MONKEY
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12:14 _sri you'd think the perl6 release would be getting more hype than ruby 2.3.0
12:15 Zoffix Why?
12:15 Zoffix We don't have a release yet
12:15 hankache of course
12:15 hankache they have been waiting for 15 years
12:15 hankache :)
12:15 _sri well, then you botched your release, social media thinks the blog post from yesterday was a bad release announcement
12:16 virtualsue cheers _sri
12:16 _sri "Larry Wall announces that Perl 6 is ready for production" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10789270
12:16 _nadim given $sub = sub ....  Is it possible to find out where the sub was defined?
12:16 zengargoylew joined #perl6
12:17 _sri virtualsue: o/
12:17 Zoffix Eh. the first comment on that is really disappointing "I expect that the reaction from most of the HN community will be somewhat similar to "why use perl these days when there are so many other more modern choices,""
12:17 Zoffix I wonder if they mean the 20-year-old Python :P
12:17 _sri Zoffix: that was to be expected
12:17 Zoffix _sri, I spose
12:17 hankache there is no such thing as bad publicity ;)
12:18 hankache any publicity is good publicity
12:18 Zoffix hankache, exactly my thought on it :)
12:18 virtualsue i am not a big fan of hn
12:18 _sri your announcement has to tell people why they want to use perl 6
12:18 hankache Zoffix there is method in my madness
12:19 hankache _sri it will.
12:19 rurban joined #perl6
12:19 virtualsue today will be the biggest bikeshed day ever
12:20 Zoffix Sweet
12:20 * Zoffix decides on the colour in advance
12:20 vv3 joined #perl6
12:20 Zoffix It should be pink!
12:20 hankache lunch bbl
12:21 vv3 joined #perl6
12:21 Zoffix hm, seems I found a 32-bit atom
12:21 Zoffix It's a Christmas miracle!
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12:23 tadzik :)
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12:33 Ulti lame Task::Star choked on something that looks suspiciously like a precomp problem in Grammar::Debugger otherwise that curl line works well enough on OSX
12:35 abraxxa joined #perl6
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12:37 thundergnat m: sub super ($s) { $s.trans( ('a' .. 'z').join => 'ᵃᵇᶜᵈᵉᶠᵍʰⁱʲᵏˡᵐⁿᵒᵖᵠʳˢᵗᵘᵛʷˣʸᶻ')}; say super 'merry christmas'; # \o/
12:37 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«ᵐᵉʳʳʸ ᶜʰʳⁱˢᵗᵐᵃˢ␤»
12:37 Fritz joined #perl6
12:38 Zoffix neat
12:38 abraxxa seems the nested CArray type check is still broken ;(
12:38 Zoffix .u ᵠ
12:38 yoleaux U+1D60 MODIFIER LETTER SMALL GREEK PHI [Lm] (ᵠ)
12:38 vv3 joined #perl6
12:38 Zoffix That q looks fishy :P
12:38 thundergnat doesn't seem to be a superscipt q
12:38 Zoffix Ulti, yeah, and it fails on URL too. Re-running works
12:39 vv3 joined #perl6
12:39 Zoffix That would be very strange, considering there are superscripts of all other letters
12:39 Zoffix .u ᵖʳ
12:39 yoleaux U+02B3 MODIFIER LETTER SMALL R [Lm] (ʳ)
12:39 yoleaux U+1D56 MODIFIER LETTER SMALL P [Lm] (ᵖ)
12:40 Zoffix hum https://www.quora.com/Why-is-there-no-character-for-superscript-q-in-Unicode
12:40 Zoffix That second answer is whack. Even if all other letters have specific uses, a single letter missing is an obvious flaw. Especially when you have a symbol for poop -_-
12:41 leont Is seems IO.stat is documented but not implemented :-/
12:41 eone joined #perl6
12:41 * leont needs a way to recognize loops in recursive dir iteration, inode and device numbers are useful but I can't find a way to get to them.
12:42 thundergnat Zoffix: BTW, not to be a recurring PITA but travis reporting on modules.perl6.org is still flakey. MAny passing modules show up as
12:42 thundergnat "not set up".
12:42 Zoffix Oh
12:42 Zoffix thundergnat, which ones?
12:43 RabidGravy leont, check Linux::Fuser - uses some nqp malarkey to get them
12:43 Zoffix Hm 007 is one example
12:43 Zoffix Weird
12:43 thundergnat Umm Sort::Naturally, Dependency::Sort, Text::Levenshtein... many more
12:43 Zoffix Oh weird.
12:43 Zoffix Sort::Naturally showed up as "passing" when the last issue was happening
12:44 * Zoffix looks
12:44 sergot RabidGravy++: I'm looking into it
12:44 sergot thanks a lot!
12:44 thundergnat Yeah, it was accurate for a day then changed again.
12:44 RabidGravy sergot, I think FROGGS++ merged a fix
12:44 Zoffix thundergnat, and it's not a PITA :) I didn't even know it was broken :)
12:45 sergot RabidGravy: right, I've just noticed it's merged, thank you very much anyway ! :)
12:45 RabidGravy it might not be right for the windows case but it works for things that don't use the bundled libs
12:47 RabidGravy leont, specifically https://github.com/jonathanstowe/p6-Linux-Fuser/blob/master/lib/Linux/Fuser.pm#L60
12:47 leont Yeah, I found it
12:48 RabidGravy I ripped them out of IO::Path::More because it was failing more than it was passing
12:53 RabidGravy sergot, however https://github.com/sergot/IO-Capture-Simple/pull/8 probably needs your attention :)
12:54 leont Thanks, that fixed my issues :-)
12:56 RabidGravy cool
12:56 leont (or at least, I think it did, still have to write tests for looping…)
12:56 leont Also, using two stats seems a bit wasteful, or does it cache?
12:56 abraxxa can you run perl6 t/04-nativecall/05-arrays.t ?
12:56 abraxxa ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /home/abraxxa/perl6/git/rakudo/t/04-nativecall/CompileTestLib.pm
12:56 abraxxa Semicolon form of 'module' without 'unit' is illegal.  You probably want to use 'unit module'
12:56 abraxxa at /home/abraxxa/perl6/git/rakudo/t/04-nativecall/CompileTestLib.pm:1
12:57 abraxxa ah, my clone wasn't up2date
12:57 lucasb joined #perl6
12:58 sergot RabidGravy: how could I miss those :)))
12:58 abraxxa now I get P6M Merging GLOBAL symbols failed: duplicate definition of symbol NativeCall
12:58 abraxxa and my use NativeCall isn't after the unit module
12:58 breinbaas joined #perl6
13:00 abraxxa what is the difference between unit module and class?
13:00 hankache joined #perl6
13:03 * abraxxa reads S11
13:03 andreoss where i can find default definition of ws token?
13:04 andreoss m: Grammar.new.ws.perl.say
13:04 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«P6opaque: no such attribute '$!shared'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/CnC2vYGyGH line 1␤␤»
13:05 dalek modules.perl6.org: 1ff22c1 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/PostProcessor/TravisCI.pm:
13:05 dalek modules.perl6.org: Do not consider "not set up" Travis statuses as cached
13:05 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/1ff22c121c
13:05 dalek modules.perl6.org: 734f5b3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/PostProcessor/TravisCI.pm:
13:05 dalek modules.perl6.org: [REBUILD] Avoid deleting cached Travis status on each build
13:05 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/734f5b311a
13:06 Zoffix thundergnat, ^ that *probably* fixes the issue, but I'm too drunk to be 100% sure yet :) If you notice problems a week later, let me know :P
13:07 jnthn andreoss: S05 has one
13:07 yoleaux 24 Dec 2015 23:02Z <TimToady> jnthn: see thread safety question I asked at https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-12-24#i_11773124 which might be related to hang of throttle.t
13:07 jnthn / <.ws> /                # match "whitespace":
13:07 jnthn #   \s+ if it's between two \w characters,
13:07 jnthn #   \s* otherwise
13:08 andreoss so it's now \h*
13:08 andreoss *not
13:08 thundergnat Zoffix, thanks, will do
13:08 andreoss m: say "
13:08 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/rpD_ybfkn7␤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' ␤at /tmp/rpD_ybfkn7:1␤------> 3say "7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        argument list␤        double quotes…»
13:09 andreoss m: say "\r" ~~ /\h/
13:09 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
13:09 andreoss m: say "\r" ~~ /\s/
13:09 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«「
13:09 jnthn .tell TimToady It does help to do that, ys, though much more advisable is to just declared a fixed dimension array.
13:09 yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
13:09 andreoss m: say "\n" ~~ /\h/
13:09 camelia rakudo-moar e360bd: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
13:10 jnthn Note you can define ws in your own grammar if needed
13:13 lizmat jnthn: the code in throttle.t had another thinko... the array went from 0..9, while the loop went from 1..10...
13:13 yoleaux 03:10Z <jdv79> lizmat: why did we not borrow p5's meta spec more?
13:13 lizmat fixing now
13:13 lizmat jdv79: because we didn't want to make the same mistakes ?
13:13 El_Che lizmat: you opted for a set of new ones? :)
13:13 lizmat this was discussed at QA meatings...
13:14 El_Che cheers people!
13:14 lizmat "always make new mistakes"
13:14 El_Che thx for the release!
13:14 jdv79 i was about to say.  what are the mistakes/justifications
13:15 abraxxa can someone help me to write a test case for the failing my CArray[CArray[int8]] $foo .= new; in DBDish::Oracle?
13:15 jdv79 the current spec doesn't feel as well thought out as the current p5 one.  could be me.
13:15 Zoffix There's the obvious missing piece: recommended/optional prereqs
13:16 lizmat jdv79: never said it was complete  :-)
13:16 Zoffix :)
13:17 jdv79 i'm all for new stuff.  i'm just questioning the reasoning we didn't follow p5's example more closely.  for instance why have a seperate perl field for its version when it could just be part of the pre-reqs
13:18 jdv79 also, the prereqs in p5's spec is way more comprehensive
13:19 jdv79 also, the values in the p6 spec are "wrong" from what i can gather.  "v6" should be "6" and "JSON::Slow:auth<cpan:*>:ver(1..*)" should be seperate fields.
13:19 Zoffix I'm fine with a separate perl field, since the prereqs is what is installed by the module installer, so having perl there is weird
13:20 * stmuk seems to remember past CPAN modules trying to install brand new uneeded perl 5s :)
13:20 lichtkind joined #perl6
13:20 Zoffix :o
13:20 stmuk that bug drove me nuts for a year or two!
13:20 kid51 joined #perl6
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13:21 dalek roast: c5e65d7 | lizmat++ | S17-supply/throttle.t:
13:21 dalek roast: Hopefully fix hanging issues, TimToady++
13:21 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c5e65d781d
13:22 Zoffix Template::Mojo, Bailador, DBIish seem like an overkill to have in Task::Star... I could look past DBIish, but Bailador? Is P6 positioning itself as a go-to tool for web dev and is it expected that most P6 devs will be doing web dev?
13:22 Zoffix Seems a weird thing to include
13:23 Zoffix Especially since it's still broken
13:23 jdv79 DBIish makes sense.  db is a huge bgen purpose thing.
13:23 jdv79 perl5 without dbi is drastically less useful
13:24 stmuk Broken how? the Bailador tests passed a few hours ago when I tried it
13:25 jdv79 is Bailador one of the ones that triggers the precomp bug?
13:25 xpen joined #perl6
13:25 stmuk which bug?
13:25 jdv79 there were a few you had to run again to get past that annoyance
13:25 jdv79 the can't unbox type something
13:26 Zoffix stmuk, passing tests != not broken :P
13:26 Zoffix stmuk, this one: https://github.com/tadzik/Bailador/issues/43
13:26 Zoffix I've not tried it right now, but I see there' still an open PR for my still-open issue, so I assume it's still not fixed
13:26 stmuk the main problem I saw with Bailador was the slow install "hang" which larry fixed
13:27 Zoffix There's also this: https://github.com/tadzik/Bailador/issues/42
13:27 stmuk is the "unbox/retry" error module specific or does it affect all modules?
13:27 Zoffix That really is a fatal issue, since it means I can't use Bailador in production
13:27 Zoffix .oO( more like Failador )
13:28 Zoffix stmuk, from what I understand, it affects all modules with uninstalled prereqs
13:28 Zoffix Come to think of it, we can problem trick the issue by listing the prereqs of failing modules first, so they're installed when we get to failing modules, thus avoiding the failure.
13:28 Zoffix s/problem/probably/;
13:29 stmuk if Bailador is shipped in * maybe someone new will see and fix it :)
13:29 Zoffix heh
13:30 Zoffix Hm getting a bunch of warnings on DBIish install "NativeCall: Consider adding the api version of the library you want to use, sub foo is native(mysqlclient, v1)"
13:30 lichtkind could we rewrite the desing page on perl6.org, i mean now the design is completed for first
13:31 lichtkind it says part of lang spec are still in flix
13:31 virtualsue who is "we"
13:31 Zoffix lichtkind, well, they are
13:31 Zoffix Macros are still experimental
13:31 lichtkind i mean me but i want to listen opionon that
13:31 lichtkind allright
13:32 Zoffix lichtkind, I do think the "Notes (excerpt from Synopsis 1)" section could be replaced/updated
13:32 stmuk I assume once rakudo feature freezes (ish) its more likely the design gets rewritten to resemble what we have
13:32 Zoffix Since we now have the "solidified" spec. but I'm unsure what it should say now tho
13:32 Zoffix Ah right, the spec ATM is likely outdated in places
13:33 Zoffix (and roast is the real spec)
13:33 lnx joined #perl6
13:34 Zoffix Task::Star installs on freshly squeezed rakudo (looking past several re-runs to avoid the precomp bug) \o/
13:36 * stmuk wonders if sprouts can be microwaved
13:36 Zoffix sure
13:36 Zoffix Why wouldn't they? :)
13:37 espadrine they contain water, that's what matters
13:37 jdv79 what would a gen purpose dist list if it was made today
13:38 Zoffix jdv79, Test::Meta for one
13:38 jdv79 s//contain/
13:38 Zoffix And Acme::GiveUp ^_^
13:40 Zoffix jdv79, call me crazy, but out of the current Task::Star list, I'd leave only Grammar::Debugger https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/29959ee7cdb89921f06e
13:40 ChoHag They can be microwaved.
13:40 krshn the re-runs are very annoying if you do not know why it is happens. makes one suspect ones perl6 setup. we should have a way to communicate the bug to the user
13:40 Zoffix And I only really say it because I've used it once
13:40 ChoHag Eaten is another matter.
13:40 dalek rakudo/nom: f2dd986 | lizmat++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
13:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix spurious fails in Supply.interval tests
13:40 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:40 dalek rakudo/nom: The cancel inside the CATCH block could also happen before the cancellation
13:40 dalek rakudo/nom: value was set because of an exception.  And then bomb again, causing the test
13:40 dalek rakudo/nom: failure.
13:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f2dd986fab
13:41 Zoffix So what I'm really saying is that Task::Star ATM is useless and all the issues we're having with it are a waste of time :)
13:42 raiph joined #perl6
13:44 jdv79 Zoffix: well, rakudo star is about useful stuff for early adopters so you're cut down is way less useful
13:45 jdv79 i'm just questioning some of the inclusions as actually being useful
13:45 Zoffix Based on the quick scan of modules.perl6.org, this is what I'd have in Task::Star instead:    Data::Dump Grammar::Debugger Test::Meta DBIish File::Temp File::Find p6doc
13:45 jdv79 and new stuff should probably go in.  like Test::Meta
13:45 * leont just discovered unless foo() ->$ value { return $value } as a useful pattern :-)
13:45 Zoffix I certainly wouldn't want Failador and JSON module of the day included in it
13:46 * leont greatly prefers Path::Iterator over File::Find, but then again he wrote it :-p
13:46 jdv79 sure
13:46 kanishka joined #perl6
13:46 hankache Zoffix for the love of God remove ANY module that is failing from Rakudo Star
13:46 stmuk moar sherry!
13:47 jdv79 JSON::Tiny isn't "of the day" though in my mind but sure.  its the canonical one based on grammars
13:47 jdv79 it just happens to be slow atm:(
13:47 krshn hankache: +1
13:47 Zoffix But grammars are sloooow
13:47 stmuk nothing is failing in Task::Star any worse than anything else
13:47 jdv79 maybe that's useful to put out there:)
13:47 jdv79 idk
13:47 Zoffix My choice is JSON::Fast ATM, but it's generation of JSON is total crap, because it adds about 40% of extra size with useless whitespace
13:47 Theophane sucks :(
13:48 Zoffix hankache, well, the real thing that's failing is panda TBH.
13:48 hankache i just did rakudobrew build moar
13:48 hankache nothing failed
13:48 hankache even panda installed
13:49 hankache what's the issue?
13:49 Zoffix hankache, right, but panda is broken when installing modules with prereqs that aren't installing
13:49 Zoffix hankache, *that* causes all the issues with several modules in Task::Star
13:49 Zoffix *prereqs that aren't installED
13:51 hankache so if any module that is a prereq fails, everything fails?
13:51 hankache isn't this what should happen?
13:51 Zoffix Seems to be yes. And the reason it works on re-try is because by then those prereqs are already installed
13:51 Zoffix Errr
13:51 Zoffix hankache, no, there are no fails involved
13:52 hankache shouldn't we fix these modules instead?
13:52 Zoffix There's nothing to fix
13:52 Zoffix hankache, if you want module X installed that depends on module Y that is NOT installed, your install of module X will fail. But if you install module Y first, then it'll succeed
13:52 hankache Zoffix: ahhh!!!!!!!
13:53 hankache Zoffix: when did this happen? dependencies where working fine like a week ago
13:53 Zoffix several days ago, maybe a week
13:53 hankache the Native libraries versioninig thing?
13:56 hankache what about zef?
13:56 hankache is it viable?
13:56 Zoffix no idea
13:57 kjs_ joined #perl6
13:59 hankache zef is a no go
14:05 jdv79 zef is being refactored and is waiting for new precomp-ish bugs to be worked out
14:05 jdv79 or so i gather from the README and ugexe
14:07 * leont rather dislikes the structure of panda
14:08 Theophane hm I wonder how fun it would be to write rakudo modules in Rust.
14:11 halto joined #perl6
14:11 leont I wanted to add TAP::Harness support, the structure is kind of hostile to that (the assumption of an external harness runs through several classes) :-.
14:20 Zoffix For anyone curious, this is my TEST_JOBS=250 make spectest run: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/5166056e80d863f10fb8  hung on throttle.t
14:26 jasanj joined #perl6
14:26 lizmat .tell Zoffix, is that hang before or after I changed throttle.t earlier today ?
14:26 yoleaux lizmat: What kind of a name is "Zoffix,"?!
14:27 lizmat .tell Zoffix is that hang before or after I changed throttle.t earlier today ?
14:27 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
14:29 ZoffixWin joined #perl6
14:29 ZoffixWin joined #perl6
14:29 leont K-Lined does not sound good…
14:29 lizmat ZoffixWin: was that before or after my throttle.t fixes earlier today ?
14:30 rurban joined #perl6
14:30 ZoffixWin lizmat, after. After the tests finished, I ran git pull in the /rakudo dist just to ensure I had all the latest stuff, and it said "already up-to-date"
14:30 lizmat :-(
14:31 Zoffix .botsnack
14:31 yoleaux 14:27Z <lizmat> Zoffix: is that hang before or after I changed throttle.t earlier today ?
14:31 yoleaux :D
14:31 furn_ joined #perl6
14:31 lizmat well, at least the test is more correct now, as it was changing the size of the array when it shouldn't have
14:32 halto joined #perl6
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14:42 kjs joined #perl6
14:43 ab6tract joined #perl6
14:43 ab6tract Zoffix: are you sure that rakudo/spec is pulled automatically from a git pull in rakudo/ ?
14:44 lizmat not from a git pull, but with a 'make spectest'
14:45 ab6tract lizmat: then I'm not sure that he actually has the latest version of throttle.t
14:45 lizmat ah...  hmmm....
14:45 lizmat you could be right  :-)
14:46 ab6tract how does a 250 worker run look on your machine? :)
14:46 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
14:46 lizmat I'll try in a moment...
14:46 Zoffix Takes 15GB of RAM :)
14:46 Zoffix I'd think I have the latest version. It took at most 10 minutes to run the test and I immediately posted the results and the last commit I see in roast is 1h20m ago
14:46 ab6tract Zoffix: please explicitly pull in rakudo/spec .. that way we can be sure
14:47 Zoffix and running the test pulls the latest roast
14:47 ab6tract ok
14:47 Zoffix I rebooted into Windows to play games, so I can't immediately run the test. I could reboot back and try again if really is needed, but I see lizmat is going to try themselves so... :)
14:48 lizmat yes, we will  :)
14:48 Zoffix ;)
14:48 rindolf joined #perl6
14:48 ab6tract Zoffix: cheers man, no worries!
14:48 ab6tract i would run myself but about to hop in a car and travel so
14:51 pochi m: grammar MyGrammar is Perl6::Grammar { ... }
14:51 camelia rakudo-moar f2dd98: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/iZT6achxZZ␤'MyGrammar' cannot inherit from 'Perl6::Grammar' because it is unknown.␤at /tmp/iZT6achxZZ:1␤»
14:51 pochi Grammar.nqp calls it Perl6::Grammar though ... How can I make my own grammar which inherits from the official grammar?
14:57 Zoffix *le sigh* https://twitter.com/hashtag/perl6?src=hash
14:58 Zoffix People making an assumption that TimToady++'s Advent Post is a release announcement and then criticizing it for not being release-announcement-like -_- Missing download link? Eh, well, there's ya first clue, bruh
15:00 * lizmat starts the TEST_JOBS=250 spectest and goes away for a bit
15:00 Theophane \o/
15:02 Zoffix lizmat, if you have trouble reproducing the hang, I'll gladly reboot back to Linux and try again :)
15:02 FROGGS pochi: if you need a slang example instead, there is this: https://github.com/FROGGS/p6-Slang-Tuxic
15:03 FROGGS m: constant P6G = %*LANG<Perl6>; grammar MyGrammar is P6G { } # this compiles, but I dunno if it is of any use
15:03 camelia rakudo-moar f2dd98: ( no output )
15:04 pochi FROGGS: I'd like to MyGrammar.parse("some perl6 code", actions => $my-actions)
15:04 pochi and my-actions doing something useful(?) like pretty-print/colorify etc
15:06 Atomic_Dz4vo joined #perl6
15:06 FROGGS pochi: the perl6 actions do quite a lot, you cannot remove them without breaking anything... mind that you need to run code while you compile a perl6 program
15:06 FROGGS pochi: but you can perhaps wrap the action methods in an export sub
15:07 FROGGS pochi: the export sub trick is what the slang example shows
15:11 jasabella joined #perl6
15:12 cognominal m:  grammar A { token TOP {  <( <.a> )> }; token a { . <(a)> }}; say A.parse(".a")
15:12 camelia rakudo-moar f2dd98: OUTPUT«「.a」␤»
15:13 cognominal m:  grammar A { token TOP {  <( <.a> )> }; token a { . <(a)> }}; say A.parse(".a"); say $/.perl
15:13 camelia rakudo-moar f2dd98: OUTPUT«「.a」␤Match.new(ast => Any, list => (), hash => Map.new(()), orig => ".a", to => 2, from => 0)␤»
15:15 cognominal m:  grammar A { token TOP {  <( <a> )> }; token a { . <(a)> }}; say A.parse(".a"); say $/.perl
15:15 camelia rakudo-moar f2dd98: OUTPUT«「.a」␤ a => 「a」␤Match.new(ast => Any, list => (), hash => Map.new((:a(Match.new(ast => Any, list => (), hash => Map.new(()), orig => ".a", to => 2, from => 1)))), orig => ".a", to => 2, from => 0)␤»
15:15 vendethiel joined #perl6
15:16 Zoffix Well, I just told the First Lady of Murica that her speech was stupid... I love the Internet
15:16 * Zoffix passes around shots of vodka
15:16 cognominal I would have expected the match to stringify to "a" not ".a".
15:17 ponzii joined #perl6
15:17 Zoffix cognominal, what if it has more than one capture?
15:17 Zoffix like a and b
15:17 pochi FROGGS: Hm, didn't think of BEGIN and CHECK blocks :-( (with role Tuxic, you swap out perls definition of some grammar terms?)
15:18 ponzii I hHeard Perl 6 was out but can't see a Rakudo Star release since November's.
15:18 cognominal not so sure how a    <( <a>  )>   should behave when the a rule uses itself a <( ... )>
15:18 cognominal Zoffix, can you give an example ?
15:19 vendethiel ponzii: indeed, everyone is busy with christmas. it's comin soon though :-)
15:19 Ben_Goldberg joined #perl6
15:19 Zoffix ponzii, you heard wrong. There was some confusion in the wild regarding Larry Wall's Advent post recapping the past 15 years of development.
15:20 ponzii Zoffix: So ... next Xmas then? :)
15:20 Zoffix Nah
15:20 Zoffix ponzii, the release of the Perl 6 language is coming soon in the next 24-48 hours, but I'm not so sure about Rakudo Star release. It's a release of the compiler implementing the Perl 6 language that is being released on Xmas, so... there'll be some delay :)
15:21 hlafarge joined #perl6
15:21 Zoffix ponzii, you could still try out right now, just build from source with rakudobrew: http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/
15:21 ponzii Larry should hire Matz. He always gets his Xmas presents out on time :)
15:21 hankache joined #perl6
15:21 Zoffix ponzii, yeah, I saw the trending post. Very nice.
15:22 ponzii Zoffix: I use rakudobrew actually so are you saying it's out if I use that?
15:22 Zoffix ponzii, pretty much, yeah. Just rebuild from HEAD (I believe running `rakudobrew triple` does that)
15:23 cognominal If I understand Larry's post, xmas is more like the spec freeze, next is rakudo, after that rakudo star. He said festivities often last until January 5. So maybe rakudo start will be there at this time.
15:23 Zoffix ponzii, and depending on how old your install is, you might need to nuke ~/.rakudobrew and ~/.perl6 first, as there were some changes to the module install process
15:23 FROGGS pochi: I do, but you can also wrap methods I guess
15:23 FROGGS ponzii: we are close to the december release though
15:24 Zoffix ponzii, oh, I just remembered rakudobrew triple needs a patch to make it work right with make :P Ummm... maybe try rakudobrew build moar  that should be good 'nuf
15:25 ponzii Zoffix: `rakudobrew build moar` is what I usually use.
15:25 Zoffix cognominal, yeah, but that's not how the outside world sees it. "Release of Perl 6" mostly means release of a THING you can download and run and make do things
15:27 Zoffix Oh,
15:27 Zoffix m: 'foo bar' ~~ /('foo') \s+ ('bar')/; say $/
15:27 camelia rakudo-moar f2dd98: OUTPUT«「foo bar」␤ 0 => 「foo」␤ 1 => 「bar」␤»
15:28 Zoffix nm
15:29 stmuk I have to admit I was hoping the top post on Hackernews today to be different
15:29 andreoss is there prompt() with GNU Readline features?
15:31 Zoffix stmuk, well, we haven't released anything yet....
15:32 Zoffix ...but that brings me to another point... Wtf is everybody? I thought the channel would be like super excited and super busy right now... Maybe I'm just in the wrong timezone
15:32 lucasb Zoffix: I'm super excited and super busy right now :)
15:33 Zoffix heh
15:34 * au is too excited and too busy writing perl6 scripts, too :)
15:34 andreoss ruby people have already done their Christmas release
15:34 nemsys joined #perl6
15:34 stmuk it's almost as if there were a common holiday over north america and europe!
15:36 Theophane wow
15:38 Zoffix If there is any wisdom in any of this is that releasing things on Christmas is a stupid idea, unless you prepare the release well in advance and on the actual day all you have to do is click a button.
15:38 cognominal Zoffix, except they think they know what kind of THING it is and they will judge it by existing metrics. Eventually, they will be surprised when camelia will fully deploy its wings  :)
15:39 cognominal m:  grammar A { token TOP {  <( <a> )> }; token a { . <(a)> }}; say A.parse(".a"); say $/.perl
15:39 camelia rakudo-moar f2dd98: OUTPUT«「.a」␤ a => 「a」␤Match.new(ast => Any, list => (), hash => Map.new((:a(Match.new(ast => Any, list => (), hash => Map.new(()), orig => ".a", to => 2, from => 1)))), orig => ".a", to => 2, from => 0)␤»
15:40 Zoffix cognominal, that's a nice sentiment, but how much connection does it have to reality? I've seen the P6 release described as a "trainwreck" in the outside circles, and so far I actually agree (https://twitter.com/hashtag/perl6?src=hash)
15:40 cognominal ^^^ vendethiel, what would you expect here
15:40 vendethiel about the perl 6 release?
15:40 vendethiel or about the snippet of code?
15:41 stmuk I think we probably just have to wait a few more hours
15:41 stmuk its just a tag anyway
15:43 cognominal recently, I have seen Perl 6 compared to Gnu Hurd on twitter. But the comparaison does not apply, a Unix kernel is bound by a well known interface while Perl 6 started with a blank slate.
15:43 patrickz joined #perl6
15:43 cognominal vendethiel, about the code snippet
15:44 andreoss it's better compared with attempt to rewrite Emacs to Scheme
15:44 stmuk gnu hurd works ok on 32 bit intel
15:44 andreoss since 1999
15:44 vendethiel Well, the fact we have some heavy bugs right before the release (precomp) etc will confuse a lot of people, but I got nothing to say :)
15:44 vendethiel cognominal: never used <()>
15:45 cognominal I am not happy with the current state of panda but it is clearly in transition
15:45 andreoss emacs on scheme works, but too slow to usefull
15:45 andreoss about 70 times slower than original
15:45 Zoffix vendethiel, well, it's the release of the *language* and issues in Rakudo are well-defined: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blame/nom/docs/announce/2015.12.md#L28-L37
15:46 andreoss *to be usefull
15:46 Zoffix Not that it would stop people expecting the conventional deliverables in conventional state
15:46 Zoffix But... that's what you get when you go bold and define new paradigms :)
15:46 vendethiel Zoffix: to outsiders, it's "A 6.0 release is buggy"
15:46 Zoffix vendethiel, yup
15:47 Zoffix And I'm kinda fine with that.
15:47 * Zoffix does another shot
15:47 Zoffix To Perl 6 and all the people who can correctly comprehend release notes and don't expect things not promised :D
15:47 mattp__ Zoffix: I hope you're not in the eastern timezone for the amount of drinking your doing :)
15:47 Zoffix mattp__, I am! I started drinking at 6AM today :P
15:47 cognominal It seems that TimToady sees Perl 6 like a Rorschach test, it will be what the most imaginative people will see in it. Eventually, the crowd will follow.
15:49 diakopter where are the social network announcements being posted? twitter? reddit?
15:49 Zoffix cognominal, I'm kinda fine with that
15:49 Zoffix diakopter, everywhere? :)
15:50 diakopter such as?
15:50 Zoffix diakopter, sadly, some people think Larry's Advent post was the release announcement: https://twitter.com/hashtag/perl6?src=hash
15:50 autarch doh, panda seems to be broken for me
15:50 Zoffix diakopter, what do you mean such as?
15:50 diakopter everywhere, including?
15:50 autarch because of Shell::Command
15:50 diakopter twitter & reddit?
15:50 Zoffix diakopter, when the release happens, post it everywhere you can, because why not? I may be misunderstanding the question.
15:50 lucasb autarch: what's the issue? the 'as' keyword?
15:50 diakopter hacker news?
15:51 diakopter well it's just usually such things are planned
15:51 autarch lucasb: yeah - and I just did "rakudobrew build-panda" to see if that'd help, no love
15:51 diakopter such announcements & posting
15:51 Zoffix diakopter, ah
15:51 Zoffix *shrug* I think @responsible-parties are currently sleeping
15:51 Zoffix I've no idea what's happening
15:51 diakopter who are the responsible parties?
15:51 lucasb autarch: I think both panda and Shell::Command fixed that already... maybe it's some file leftover
15:52 Zoffix diakopter, [Coke]? TimToady?
15:52 autarch lucasb: yeah, I did a "git clean -dxf" in ~/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/panda, then a new "rakudobrew build-panda" - still no love
15:52 autarch I wonder if I just need to nuke my whole install
15:53 * autarch tries that
15:53 xinming_ joined #perl6
15:53 autarch I'll report back in 10 minutes or so ;)
15:53 Zoffix autarch, probably. My install went great an hour or so ago... And I did nuke ~/.rakudobrew and ~/.perl6
15:55 dalek doc: 081331e | (Brock Wilcox)++ | doc/Language/phasers.pod:
15:55 dalek doc: Initial phaser doc, from S04
15:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/081331ea77
15:55 dalek doc: 8a4831a | (Brock Wilcox)++ | doc/Language/phasers.pod:
15:55 dalek doc: Start shuffling things into sections
15:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8a4831a538
15:55 dalek doc: 243908a | (Brock Wilcox)++ | doc/Language/phasers.pod:
15:55 dalek doc: Further refinement of Phasers doc, maybe even useable
15:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/243908a02c
15:55 dalek doc: 118835a | (Brock Wilcox)++ | doc/Language/phasers.pod:
15:55 dalek doc: Modify subtitle a bit
15:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/118835a87d
15:55 dalek doc: 61f3747 | (Brock Wilcox)++ | doc/Language/phasers.pod:
15:55 dalek doc: Merge pull request #260 from perl6/phasers
15:55 dalek doc:
15:55 dalek doc: Phasers
15:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/61f37473a3
15:56 kjs_ joined #perl6
16:03 jandrew joined #perl6
16:08 autarch nuke and rebuild did the trick
16:09 Theophane \o/
16:10 atweiden joined #perl6
16:11 vendethiel- joined #perl6
16:11 xinming joined #perl6
16:11 * lizmat is back
16:12 lizmat Files=1092, Tests=51412, 299 wallclock secs (23.61 usr  5.07 sys + 1788.66 cusr 185.18 csys = 2002.52 CPU)   # TEST_JOBS=250
16:12 lizmat no hang in throttle.t
16:14 Zoffix joined #perl6
16:14 klapperl joined #perl6
16:15 * Zoffix nukes rakudo and re-tries the test
16:17 hlafarge joined #perl6
16:19 Zoffix heh. I have a nagging thought that I may have seen throttle.t take more than a second or two and aborted it because I thought it hanged :P
16:19 bpmedley_ joined #perl6
16:20 lizmat Files=1, Tests=47, 35 wallclock secs ( 0.03 usr  0.00 sys +  2.24 cusr  0.25 csys =  2.52 CPU)   # typical wallclock on throttle.t
16:21 christkind joined #perl6
16:21 Skarsnik_ joined #perl6
16:21 FROGGS throttle.t usually hangs on my box
16:22 christkind p6: say "release date";
16:22 camelia rakudo-moar f2dd98: OUTPUT«release date␤»
16:22 edehont joined #perl6
16:22 dalek perl6-roast-data: 119d1c7 | coke++ | / (7 files):
16:22 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
16:22 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/119d1c7b0e
16:22 christkind p6: say "release date".WHEN;
16:22 camelia rakudo-moar f2dd98: OUTPUT«Method 'WHEN' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile line 1␤␤»
16:23 Zoffix christkind, the answer is "sometime in the next 24-48 hours" :P
16:23 lizmat FROGGS: does it still with the most recent throttle.t ?
16:23 * christkind keeps his fingers crossed
16:23 * lizmat notes that Christmas is celebrated well into January in some parts of the world
16:24 Zoffix :)
16:24 christkind And before I forget, Merry Christmas/Winter solstice/$CELEBRATION to everyone!
16:24 Zoffix Same to you!
16:24 jandrew joined #perl6
16:24 FROGGS lizmat: ohh, I've not seen a patch to that file... will retry later
16:25 lizmat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#Listing
16:27 dalek nqp: 0c02ffb | TimToady++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
16:27 dalek nqp: And a Happy NQP Year
16:27 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0c02ffbbc1
16:27 Zoffix My grandma celebrates Christmas on Jan 6
16:28 Zoffix So it's not just Armenian whatever. Seems like Presbetarian(sp?) church celebrates it then
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: 8b4fe44 | lizmat++ | src/core/Date (2 files):
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Give DateTime its own BUILD
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom:
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: making DateTime creation 1.5x faster.  Since CUR uses it a lot, this
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: should also mean a bare startup gain
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8b4fe44f68
16:30 Skarsnik_ Zoffix, the warning with mysqclient is because... libmysqlclient don't follow a nice versionning for its api, libmysqlclient18 is compatible with earlier version (until 14 maybe?), since 18 is recent I leave as it
16:31 Zoffix Ah
16:31 Skarsnik_ I can probably have a way to force a non version and avoid the warning, but it's not something that should be done IMO
16:31 xinming_ joined #perl6
16:31 cygx joined #perl6
16:32 Skarsnik_ I was thiking of something like is native('mysqlclient', False), but I should not be documented if so x)
16:32 cygx Zoffix: that's an orthodox thing, not a Presbyterian one
16:32 pierre-vigier joined #perl6
16:32 cygx they used to reject Christmas altogether in the past
16:32 zhi joined #perl6
16:32 cygx Google result with some context: http://www.phcmontreat.org/Exhibit-Christmas.html
16:33 Zoffix Hm, now my spectest seems to have hung after "t/spec/S06-operator-overloading/sub.rakudo.moar ............... ok"
16:33 * cygx is afk
16:33 Zoffix It might be issues with my HDD tho, no need to panic :)
16:33 TimToady well, throttle still hangs
16:33 yoleaux 06:53Z <bartolin_> TimToady: there is RT #126823 for the failing test in adverbs.t
16:33 yoleaux 09:40Z <nine> TimToady: adverb.t is even stranger than just load: it fails when run with PERL6LIB=lib,. as the harness does butvworks when run without
16:33 yoleaux 13:09Z <jnthn> TimToady: It does help to do that, ys, though much more advisable is to just declared a fixed dimension array.
16:34 * Zoffix reboots and retries
16:34 andreoss m: say $*LANG
16:34 camelia rakudo-moar f2dd98: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable $*LANG not found␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ycfK8ytIQM line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ycfK8ytIQM line 1␤␤»
16:35 andreoss m: say $*PERL
16:35 camelia rakudo-moar f2dd98: OUTPUT«Perl 6 (6.c)␤»
16:35 andreoss okay
16:35 rurban joined #perl6
16:36 TimToady Merry Christmas everyone!
16:37 ChoHag Seems busy.
16:37 thowe Merry Christmas, TimToady
16:38 thowe Is it here?!?!  Is it here!!!!!?????   =O
16:38 TimToady it's hereabouts :)
16:38 Zoffix joined #perl6
16:38 thowe Tell me it's here, for the love of Mike!
16:39 thowe whoever Mike may be
16:39 araujo Merry Christmas / Feliz Navidad !!!
16:39 lizmat TimToady: throttle.t issue should be cleared up now
16:39 christkind thowe: Mike Rowe, the host of Dirty Jobs :)
16:39 TimToady it's not
16:39 lizmat TimToady: lit's not?  :-(
16:39 Theophane Joyeux Noël o/
16:40 TimToady still hung here under TEST_JOBS=4
16:40 lizmat grrr  :-(
16:41 hlafarge_ joined #perl6
16:41 TimToady but passes with just one job
16:43 dakkar joined #perl6
16:44 lizmat TimToady: any idea on which test it hangs ?
16:44 leont joined #perl6
16:44 christkind dakkar: buona sera e buon natale!
16:45 TimToady lizmat: if I kill it in hung state, it reports: You planned 47 tests but ran 16.
16:45 dakkar christkind: grazie, anche a te :)
16:45 TimToady so presumably the 1st 16 tests are okay
16:46 nemsys Cheers all, guys&girs, and continue to be so brave and powerful to keep the Camelia's free fly...
16:46 Theophane :)
16:49 nine lizmat: the throttle.t hang is a race condition caused by the block { @a[$_] = 1 } being just too fast. If you slow that block down by adding some extensive loop or the sleep (like in the following test), it is stable.
16:49 Theophane nine: that's a bit sad :(
16:49 lizmat yeah, but the theory was that the race was because of an error in the test
16:49 lizmat apparently it was not just that
16:50 nine lizmat: if I had to guess I would think that some Promise or Supply code only starts listening for "finished" messages when the block is already done.
16:51 nine lizmat: I can easily reproduce it by running while prove6 t/spec/S17-supply/throttle.t ; do true ; done in one terminal and a TEST_JOBS=12 make spectest in another to generate some load
16:52 lizmat TimToady: I assume t/spec/S11-modules/require.t is not failing for you?
16:53 pierre-vigier joined #perl6
16:53 * Zoffix is on t/spec/S17-supply/throttle.t
16:53 Zoffix waiting...
16:54 nine Zoffix: have a look at ps output. If it's in S state, kill it. It won't finish anymore.
16:54 FreezerburnV joined #perl6
16:54 RabidGravy nine! y'know the https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/320187eb606dfe88304bb0034a200b8a0c0687bc is that actually working for you?
16:54 Zoffix "SN+"... whatever that means
16:55 Zoffix nine, it's just lizmat ran the spectest and the hang didn't happen....
16:55 nine Zoffix: it's a race condition. It sometimes hangs, sometimes not
16:55 Zoffix ah
16:55 nine RabidGravy: yes, it does
16:55 nine RabidGravy: otherwise I wouldn't have pushed it :)
16:56 sgt_baker joined #perl6
16:57 RabidGravy I've reproduced that for Sys::Utmp and get a resources/libraries/libutmphelper.so  but %?RESOURCES<libraries/utmphelper> gives me  ../resources/libraries/utmphelper rather than the actual filename
16:58 RabidGravy weird
16:58 nine RabidGravy: you can pass that to NativeCall and it should find the library, because NativeCall uses $*VM.platform-library-name
16:58 kuma joined #perl6
16:59 pmurias joined #perl6
16:59 Zoffix k
16:59 RabidGravy that's the thing, it isn't doing that
16:59 Zoffix lizmat, repo'ed the hang. waited 6 minutes, but throttle.t did not budge. here's the full output of everything: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/1890b8a624dcf5d8efe1
16:59 Ben_Goldberg joined #perl6
16:59 Zoffix *repro'ed
17:01 eyck joined #perl6
17:02 Skarsnik m: use NativeCall :TEST; say guess_library_name('../resources/libraries/utmphelper');
17:02 camelia rakudo-moar 8b4fe4: OUTPUT«/home/camelia/../resources/libraries/libutmphelper.so␤»
17:02 RabidGravy ah
17:04 RabidGravy but it doesn't do it if the argument to the trait is a Code
17:04 RabidGravy duh
17:04 Skarsnik Ah yes
17:04 RabidGravy spent hours looking at this
17:04 awwaiid I noticed that Zoffix's trace doesn't say anything about switching roast branch
17:04 Skarsnik I think I screw up a bit the case when you give it a Callable
17:05 ZoffixWin joined #perl6
17:05 RabidGravy just stick it in a constant
17:05 autarch panda is dying if I try to install a module that's already installed
17:05 RabidGravy me-- # can't even read the code
17:05 Skarsnik I remember the old call calling the sub and still doing stuff to it
17:06 Skarsnik I should maybe document the :TEST to be able to call this sub to debug
17:06 ZoffixWin awwaiid, right, though lizmat's fixed was pushed to master
17:06 ZoffixWin autarch, dying or telling you it's already installed?
17:07 dalek rakudo/nom: a9c49a2 | lizmat++ | src/core/Date (2 files):
17:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Give Date its own BUILD
17:07 dalek rakudo/nom:
17:07 dalek rakudo/nom: making Date creation 1.5x faster
17:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a9c49a26ee
17:07 autarch ZoffixWin: both!
17:07 ZoffixWin autarch, re-installing usually requires --force argument
17:07 autarch it's not every package
17:07 ZoffixWin hm weird
17:07 autarch telling me it's already installed is fine - dying is not
17:07 * ZoffixWin nods
17:07 autarch ok, it is every package
17:07 autarch https://github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/269
17:07 Skarsnik Yes panda die when already installed lol
17:08 ZoffixWin 1.5x faster? lizmat++
17:08 Skarsnik how having a build speed up object creation? x)
17:09 ZoffixWin Who cares as long as it does :P
17:09 autarch argh, now I'm getting a segfault with my rewrite of the doc site generator
17:10 ZoffixWin :o
17:10 autarch but not consistently
17:11 Skarsnik that the worse *remember loosing an afternoon for a strlen(ptr + 1) instead of strlen(ptr) + 1*
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: e15d434 | (Dave Rolsky)++ | html/css/pygments.css:
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: Don't let pygments.css set a background for the body tag
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e15d434fba
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: 440fa4c | (Dave Rolsky)++ | / (3 files):
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: Work in progress on using perl6.org design for docs
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design:
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: Unfortunately I can't go much further without making Pod::To::HTML more
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: flexible. Right now it hard-codes too much HTML.
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/440fa4c7b3
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: ca73df5 | (Dave Rolsky)++ | / (15 files):
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: Work in progress on rewriting site generation to use my new Pod::To::HTML
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ca73df5671
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: 1500f10 | (Dave Rolsky)++ | lib/DocSite/Generator.pm:
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: use v6, uncomment mkdir, and show percentage on progress bars
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1500f10cfb
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: dd61a61 | (Dave Rolsky)++ | lib/DocSite/Pod/To/HTML.pm:
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: use v6 in lib files
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/dd61a61fc7
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: 02fa834 | (Dave Rolsky)++ | generate-site.p6:
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: Fix formatting in generate-site.p6
17:11 dalek doc/autarch/use-perl6-org-design: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/02fa834e95
17:11 autarch well, that's a lot of noise
17:11 autarch I figured I'd push my branch to the main repo - just ignore me for now
17:12 Skarsnik most of the time you are lucky because malloc round to some value, but sometime not x)
17:14 leont Given a list of pairs, how do I iterate it by $key, $value?
17:14 Skarsnik .kv
17:14 Theophane http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-34993079 <= news from England!
17:14 nine RabidGravy: aah...too bad. I actually had code ready that would resolve the full .so name when accessing $*RESOURCES, but did not commit it since everything seemed to be fine without
17:14 Skarsnik you can even write (1 , 2 , 3).kv and you get indice + value with kv
17:15 leont I mean the pair key, not the list index
17:15 leont There must be a cute way to unpack it, right?
17:15 Skarsnik I am not sure to understand what you want then x)
17:15 xfix joined #perl6
17:16 TimToady m: for :a<foo>, :b<bar> -> (:$key, :$value) { say "$key $value" }
17:16 camelia rakudo-moar a9c49a: OUTPUT«a foo␤b bar␤»
17:16 leont flatmap(*.kv) seems to do the trick
17:17 TimToady at some point we'll allow => in a signature, but we never snuck that in
17:17 leont TimToady: that doesn't look logical to me, but if it works…
17:17 TimToady binding named parameters to an object looks for methods of that name
17:17 TimToady and pair has .key and .value
17:18 lizmat nine: I think you're missing the fact that someone might actually try to install a module a second time without intending to
17:18 lizmat e.g. if it is part of a dependency ?
17:19 Skarsnik m: use NativeCall :TEST; say guess_library_name('foo', Version);
17:19 camelia rakudo-moar a9c49a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/PxT91k0PO_␤Calling guess_library_name(Str, Version) will never work with declared signature ($lib)␤at /tmp/PxT91k0PO_:1␤------> 3use NativeCall :TEST; say 7⏏5guess_library_name('foo', Version);␤»
17:19 lizmat in any case, it would be nicer if panda would just react with "already instaled  :-)
17:19 Skarsnik m: use NativeCall :TEST; say guess_library_name('foo', Version.new());
17:19 camelia rakudo-moar a9c49a: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2␤  in sub guess_library_name at /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/sources/1B9F24F2A3C749A7E79BF4419506F20BF46C2722 line 169␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/7WJdNi52zE line 1␤␤»
17:19 Skarsnik Oh right ><
17:19 * geekosaur still thinks guessing a version is asking for trouble
17:19 Skarsnik I am not calling the trait
17:20 Skarsnik m: use NativeCall :TEST; say guess_library_name(('foo', Version));
17:20 camelia rakudo-moar a9c49a: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value $apiversion of type Version in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed.  in sub guess_library_name at /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/sources/1B9F24F2A3C749A7E79BF…»
17:20 nine lizmat: yes, the error message can certainly be improved :) If panda tries to install a dependency, that's already installed, it's clearly a bug.
17:20 lizmat and I think that is what's happening, then...
17:20 TimToady the already installed message should mention --force too
17:21 leont TimToady: how do I use that in a map?
17:21 autarch nine: having panda _die_ is not an ok behavior!
17:21 leont Switching trains & #back in 5 minutes
17:21 nine Sounds like very low hanging fruit for one of the people who want a better installations behavior :)
17:21 autarch people forget what they have installed
17:21 autarch nine: right, so please don't close the bug
17:22 TimToady this kinda falls in the category of throwing exception for things that are not all that exceptional
17:22 TimToady *tions
17:22 nine autarch: reopened
17:23 autarch nine: it's also important that it not actually die - if you run "panda install URI File::Temp" and URI is installed, it should still install File::Temp
17:23 timotimo i'm back, what did i miss?
17:23 nine TimToady: it's exceptional from the repository perspective, because it expects the installation manager to be smarter. But panda should handle the situation more gracefully.
17:24 nine autarch: yes, like I said. A good bug for a beginner to get into panda's code base.
17:25 autarch I'm just trying to make a for a better bug report - "X should be fixed because of Y" is better than "X should be fixed"
17:25 * [Coke] gets to work...
17:25 TimToady \o/
17:25 TimToady I already bumped moarvm for you
17:26 TimToady (in nqp)
17:26 timotimo oh, release time? :)
17:27 TimToady "Well, what did you expect on Christmas?"  --Ebenezer "TimToady" Scrooge
17:27 Skarsnik Where I can see the tickets I opened in RT?
17:27 lizmat [Coke]: does that imply you don't want to see any commits anymore ?
17:28 Phagus joined #perl6
17:28 TimToady well, we should kinda be going easy on those anyway
17:28 Phagus It's Christmas day. Larry said...
17:29 TimToady He said it'll still be Christmas somewhere in the world when we release. :)
17:29 * TimToady hasn't thought much about the Changelog though...
17:29 lizmat the only behavioural thing I'd like to fix, is to not allow timezones that are not multiiples of 60
17:30 dakkar Changelog: Perl 6 v0.0 - initial release
17:30 TimToady lizmat: that would be antisocial
17:30 autarch lizmat: do you mean multiples of 60 minutes? that'd be wrong
17:30 dakkar seconds
17:30 autarch ah
17:30 lizmat no, seconds
17:30 TimToady whew!
17:30 TimToady I wouldn't consider the absence of such a check a blocker :)
17:30 lizmat ok
17:30 nine lizmat: do we anticipate, that there won't be timezones that are defined by fractions of seconds anymore?
17:31 dakkar nine: ask Zefram :)
17:31 lizmat fractions of seconds?   ???
17:31 nine Wasn't it even a Dutch time zone that did that?
17:31 dakkar also, no, timezone are defined to the minute
17:31 lizmat anyway, it now warns when stringifying a DateTime with such a timezone
17:32 dakkar lizmat++ # keeping up with Zefram
17:32 lizmat which I think is stupid: if we allow such timezones, we shouldn't warna about them
17:32 autarch actually, there are time zones with second offsets if you look at the Olson database
17:32 lizmat autarch: there are ???
17:32 TimToady let's please just be a little bit slushy, if not full code freeze; it's these last-minute tweaks that sometimes blow things up
17:32 peteretep dakkar: merry xmas
17:32 autarch the Olson db has some more or less made up zones to account for pre-standard times
17:32 lizmat seconds?  I knew of mintes
17:32 lizmat ok, post 6.c it is then
17:33 dakkar peteretep: thanks, you too :)
17:33 autarch lizmat: I'll double check
17:33 nine lizmat: Amsterdam Time or Dutch Time: The exact timezone was GMT +0h 19m 32.13s until March 17, 1937, when it was simplified to GMT +0h 20m.
17:33 nine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC+00:20
17:33 autarch lizmat: Zone America/New_York-4:56:02 -LMT1883 Nov 18 12:03:58
17:33 Skarsnik lizmat, should I close https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=126948 ?
17:33 autarch there's one of these for every named zone
17:34 lizmat ok, so then the warning should go
17:34 peteretep Shouldn't the warning just be able to be disabled?
17:34 * TimToady is required to go and carve the ham, so don't break anything I wouldn't break...
17:34 peteretep It will be proper to throw the warning in99.9999% of actual use cases
17:34 leont joined #perl6
17:35 autarch LMT = Local Mean Time - an approximation of local noon in the named zone
17:35 autarch basically, time before trains - it's semi-meaningless, since another city in the zone had it's own LMT
17:36 lizmat gotcha, I wasn't thinking as far back
17:36 peteretep ISO8601 doesnt support second-lecel offsets
17:36 jasabella merry christmas TimToady :D
17:37 domidumont joined #perl6
17:37 autarch peteretep: I'm pretty sure it does
17:37 * peteretep looks again
17:38 * autarch looks again too ;)
17:38 * ZoffixWin look again three
17:38 autarch I had a copy of the standard on my computer at one point ...
17:38 ZoffixWin Wait... what are we looking at? :D
17:39 dalek nqp: aac09db | coke++ | VERSION:
17:39 dalek nqp: bump VERSION
17:39 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/aac09dbf28
17:39 peteretep Wikipedia suggests not, although obviously it's not canonical
17:39 autarch I hate that the standard isn't actually open :(
17:39 nine I hate that standards aren't actually open
17:41 peteretep anywho, warnings conceptually exist to tell the user they might be doing something dumb
17:41 ZoffixWin I hate that the bar isn't open
17:41 ZoffixWin Oh, I thought we were doing like a game or something....
17:41 ZoffixWin XD
17:41 autarch oh, I had ISO 3166, not 8601
17:41 * ZoffixWin may be too drunk to IRC
17:42 peteretep That will be the case in almost every case where a second timezone is specified
17:42 * leont had expected $foo.^add_method to create an anonymous class, apparently it adds to the main class. Bummer.
17:43 leont Can one anonymize the class of an existing object? If so how?
17:44 lizmat [Coke]: i have a patch for DateTime that will  remove the !%% 60 warning and streamline DateTime stringification, if you'll take it at this point
17:44 diakopter leont: you can close/finalize a class also
17:44 autarch peteretep: I think you're right
17:45 leont Which is less useful for my use-case
17:45 autarch (about ISO)
17:45 nine The infamous "Cannot unbox a type object" that panda throws and that goes away on the second try is caused by "if not $force" in CompUnit::Repository::Installation::install. $force is just an optional Bool argument?!
17:46 lizmat autarch peteretep but maybe it should be warning on object creation, rather than at stringification ?
17:46 autarch I'm not sure it should warn at all - if it does there should probably be a way to suppress it
17:48 * lizmat fixed make t/spec/S11-modules/require.t by removing an old copy of Test.pm that lived in .
17:52 jdv79 nine: what?
17:53 jdv79 does $force have ill contents?
17:53 nebuchadnezzar ho I Perl6 NFC discuss on lwn...
17:53 skids joined #perl6
17:53 autarch lizmat: yes, I think it makes more sense to warn at creation time
17:56 peteretep +1
17:56 nine ==> Successfully installed Task::Star
17:56 nine I've just pushed a fix to panda that allows for this ^^^
17:56 jdv79 but is the bug clearly understood?
17:57 jdv79 nine++ though in any case
17:57 nine I just set a default value for the $force flag.
17:57 nine As I wrote in the commit message, it doesn't make any sense that we have to do this, but it will improve experience for too many people to not push it right away.
17:57 dalek roast: 759ca2c | lizmat++ | S32- (2 files):
17:57 dalek roast: Skip strange adverb tests to be caught by MMD
17:57 dalek roast:
17:57 dalek roast: For some yet unknown reason, using a strange adverb that should be
17:57 dalek roast: caught by MMD, does not always work.  Worse, if you skip the first
17:57 dalek roast: test that failed to die, it will not die on the next test.  So for
17:57 dalek roast: now, all such tests are skipped to provide a reliable test result
17:57 dalek roast: for the 6.c release
17:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/759ca2c4dd
18:01 christkind joined #perl6
18:02 nebuchadnezzar erf, the Unicode stuffs are quite rude to understand
18:02 jdv79 it was probably the most asked and answered thing in the last day or two
18:03 lizmat Files=1092, Tests=51429, 274 wallclock secs (13.38 usr  3.74 sys + 1683.74 cusr 148.59 csys = 1849.45 CPU)   # first clean spectest for me in a *looong* time
18:03 khw joined #perl6
18:03 jdv79 why do we have a perl6 group and a perl6 community modules group on github?
18:03 nine I wonder why nobody invested the half hour of debugging necessary (of which the hardest part was adding the --ll-exception in the right place) to find at least a workaround
18:04 lizmat jdv79: hysterical raisins ?
18:04 LLamaRider joined #perl6
18:06 nine Answering my own question: I guess people just assume that these bugs are super hard and you have to be a core dev with 5 years of experience to be able to fix them. Luckily both assumptions are wrong. Otherwise I couldn't fix such issues :)
18:07 vivek joined #perl6
18:08 [Coke] lizmat: do those roast changes need to be merge to 6.c branch?
18:08 Guest96286 Perl 6 is releasing today right?
18:08 autarch someone should maintain a count of how many times that gets asked today ;)
18:09 [Coke] Guest96286: yes, working on it now
18:09 nine jdv79: it is actually a Bool type object which is exactly what I would expect and what should work just fine.
18:09 lizmat [Coke]: c5e65d781d9dd6e86e and 759ca2c4dd906a88bafea61   yes please
18:09 Guest96286 cool :-)
18:09 [Coke] autarch: I'm at about 37 this week so far.
18:09 timotimo i bet coke could work faster on the release if he didn't have to spend five minutes every half-hour saying "yeah, i'm working on it right now"
18:09 nine m: my Bool $force; if not $force { say "works" }
18:09 camelia rakudo-moar a9c49a: OUTPUT«works␤»
18:09 autarch [Coke]: are you still working on the release? I just wanted to check ;)
18:11 RabidGravy right, Sys::Utmp fixed - only one left now
18:11 lizmat ZoffixWin and others looking at why throttle.t hangs: could you try this diff and see if it still hangs? : https://gist.github.com/lizmat/57146a698f9537f7818f
18:11 [Coke] timotimo: I'm having a happy christmas, everything is fine
18:12 lizmat dinner&
18:12 jdv79 nine: got me.  'ts why i asked.  super weird.
18:12 [Coke] someone wants to help they can double check the roast commits in master that aren't in 6.c branch and merge the ones that liz mentioned above and let me know if there are others that need review.
18:12 timotimo :)
18:13 timotimo i'm so exhausted i think i need a nap >_<
18:13 * flussence gets on deck
18:14 flussence got an ebuild done for moarvm 2015.12 already :)
18:14 [Coke] flussence++
18:15 [Coke] Holy crap, I see au in backlog. hio!
18:15 flussence if I can get a decent chunk of free time today I might try and hack at the install-core-dist.pl failure there too, bit more motivated to do something now I know I'm not the only one...
18:18 dragon3 joined #perl6
18:19 [Coke] btw, everything thank my uncle in law for moving his christmas gathering to tomorrow, so I didn't have to try to do this from a moving car. :)
18:19 jdv79 11min to install Task::Star without error.  nice.
18:20 [Coke] (commits) given our current release from nom strategy, yes, please seriously consider if something needs to get in before christmas at ths point.
18:21 [Coke] I'm happy to take liz's datetime patch if it hasn't made it in yet.
18:22 [Coke] and now I'm caught up. :)
18:23 lizmat [Coke]: verifying build, will then commit patch
18:23 jdv79 just curious - anyone know if spectest is clean on win?
18:24 [Coke] git tag | grep 2011.05 # wonder if we can remove the non standard one.
18:24 cygx joined #perl6
18:24 dalek rakudo/nom: 98a9c6e | lizmat++ | src/core/DateTime.pm:
18:24 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove warning for !%%60, streamline stringifier
18:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/98a9c6ee25
18:24 [Coke] jdv79: not having win, I could use some help verifying that.
18:24 lizmat back to dinner&
18:24 jnthn o/
18:25 cygx jdv79: not clean when using MinGW, but it's been liek that since $forever
18:25 jnthn [Coke]++ # working on release :)
18:25 flussence yayitsjnthn!
18:25 jdv79 evening jnthn
18:25 timotimo oh hey jnthn :)
18:25 cygx I've submitted sum patches, but didn't fix everything
18:25 cygx *some
18:25 timotimo m: "%foo"
18:25 camelia rakudo-moar a9c49a: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/QVk5WuHRz2:␤Useless use of constant string "%foo" in sink context (line 1)␤»
18:25 * jnthn continues to be a somewhat ill shadow of his usual self...
18:25 jdv79 cygx: oh:(
18:25 timotimo m: say "%foo"
18:25 camelia rakudo-moar a9c49a: OUTPUT«%foo␤»
18:25 jnthn But found energy to show up for a bit :)
18:25 timotimo m: say "%%%foo"
18:25 camelia rakudo-moar a9c49a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/6yKy2Kbixz␤Variable '%foo' is not declared␤at /tmp/6yKy2Kbixz:1␤------> 3say "%%7⏏5%foo"␤»
18:25 timotimo ^- this is kinda dumb :D
18:26 jnthn timotimo: How so?
18:26 jnthn Oh...
18:26 jnthn I see
18:26 jnthn hmm :)
18:26 jnthn No, we won't sneak a patch in for that before the release )
18:26 timotimo no worries
18:27 dakkar joined #perl6
18:27 * [Coke] doesn't like thta the downloads folder for rakudo bits shows an in-progress upload
18:27 timotimo i only stumbled upon it because i fixed URI::Encode, where i had "boo".encode.list.fmt("%%%X", "") to get the same thing it had before with some much more complicated code
18:28 [Coke] http://rakudo.org/downloads/nqp/ now has 2015.12 available.
18:29 [Coke] I am surprised at the number of people asking in here if the release is done. if you make it to #perl6, I feel like you're already using git to checkout nom. :)
18:29 timotimo nah, people just come in here to get a "nope, it was all a lie" answer or something
18:30 * flussence has a spectest stuck on advent2013-day14.t and... throttle.t. argh
18:30 autarch well, there's been a lot of noise on the net about the release (which is great), and so when people check perl6.org and don't see something to download, this is the next logical stop
18:30 [Coke] ahhh.
18:30 timotimo then post a screenshot on social media and receive all the internet karma for blowing this shady operation sky high
18:30 jnthn [Coke]: Looking at ChangeLog and wondering if (or in addition to) the what's new, we want it to highlight some of the key things Perl 6 provides
18:30 ribasushi [Coke]: one of the first things a user visiting http://perl6.org/ sees is a "Go to #perl6 and someone will be glad to help you get started"
18:30 jnthn [Coke]: Given this one will be read by more people than usual.
18:30 jnthn [Coke]: I'm happy to work on that if you'd like it.
18:30 [Coke] jnthn: I had asked this yesterday - I think for this week we could have 2 lists: big stuff since last monthly release, and: language features.
18:31 ribasushi [Coke]: so I'd expect most visitors now and in the future will not even know what "nom" is
18:31 jnthn OK. I just noticed the ChangeLog is a bit bear too
18:31 jnthn uh, a bit *bare* :)
18:31 [Coke] jnthn: I would love it!
18:31 flussence if I rerun those two tests separately they pass
18:31 jdv79 flussence: linux?
18:31 flussence yep
18:32 jdv79 oh lookie there.  my run just stalled as you replied on throttle.t:(  fedora here.
18:32 jdv79 that's unfortunate
18:32 lizmat flussence: did you try with my patch to Lock.pm ?
18:32 flussence also “S17-supply/wait.t Failed test:  4” and “S17-channel/basic.t Failed test:  17”
18:32 flussence lizmat: is that in nom?
18:32 [Coke] ... have I really done the last 3 releases also? yikes.
18:32 lizmat flussence: no, it's at https://gist.github.com/lizmat/57146a698f9537f7818f
18:32 jnthn [Coke]: Glad it's in the hands of somebody experienced. :)
18:33 flussence oh, I'll give it a try, hang on 10 minutes...
18:33 lizmat flussence++
18:33 flussence those other two tests also passed after retrying...
18:33 lizmat flussence: yup, they're tricky bastards
18:34 lizmat jnthn: my theory is that the problem is somehow in Promise.keep
18:34 flussence (I usually run TEST_JOBS=8, fwiw)
18:34 lizmat jnthn: when it takes the lock, the promise kept yet, so it winds up in the else
18:34 lizmat jnthn: but at time of unlock, *then* it was already kept (or at least waiting for the lock in kept)
18:35 jnthn lizmat: I'm...not keen to be patching that code path this close to the release...
18:35 lizmat ok, then we'll have to live with it
18:35 jnthn Yeah, I'm worried of doing something worse.
18:36 jnthn If the answer is "throttle.t doesn't make the 6.c cut" then I can live with that, if others also can.
18:36 dalek doc: 535899f | skids++ | doc/Language/control.pod:
18:36 dalek doc: Fix some links... maybe.
18:36 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/535899f2d1
18:37 flussence right, spectest take 2...
18:42 Woodi hi everyone *today* :)
18:43 Woodi Merry Christmas and overall Good Times for everyone :)
18:44 * lizmat waits for flussence's result before committing skipping of hanging tests
18:44 flussence almost done, but I already see a "13/47" in the status line...
18:45 flussence grr, yep it's throttle.t again.
18:45 dalek doc: 3a096df | skids++ | doc/Language/control.pod:
18:45 dalek doc: Be accurate about what is said in example comment
18:45 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3a096df78e
18:46 flussence less other failures than last time though
18:47 flussence Files=1092, Tests=51395, 532 wallclock secs (15.06 usr  3.18 sys + 1828.20 cusr 70.29 csys = 1916.73 CPU)
18:47 flussence Result: FAIL
18:47 flussence just that hang and S17-channel/basic.t again
18:47 dalek roast: 9b7b71f | lizmat++ | S17-supply/throttle.t:
18:47 dalek roast: Remove potentially hanging tests for 6.c release
18:47 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9b7b71f341
18:47 lizmat [Coke]: ^^^
18:48 lizmat fwiw, I guess t/spectest.data is as much a part of 6.c as is roast
18:53 dalek rakudo/nom: 56f428f | coke++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
18:53 dalek rakudo/nom: [release] bump NQP revision
18:53 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/56f428f64a
18:53 dalek rakudo/nom: 7486252 | coke++ | VERSION:
18:53 dalek rakudo/nom: [release] bump VERSION
18:53 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/74862525f2
18:53 dalek rakudo/nom: 834d7e4 | coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
18:53 dalek rakudo/nom: about to be history, move release
18:53 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/834d7e47b2
18:53 RabidGravy [Coke]++
18:54 dalek doc: 47091a7 | skids++ | doc/Language/control.pod:
18:54 dalek doc: Mention that "if 0 {...}" slips.
18:54 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/47091a7cbd
18:54 [Coke] lizmat: 6.c had test files removed that aren't to be run.
18:54 lizmat was throttle.t among them ?
18:55 flussence (otoh, it's a very good sign if I'm only getting the same test failures as everyone else - I've been using --has-libuv --has-libatomic_ops for years now)
18:55 [Coke] no, it was driven off "is this file not in t/spectest.data"
18:56 [Coke] so if there was a recent change to t/spectest data, that needs to be reflected in the 6.c branch also.
18:56 dalek rakudo/nom: 0053934 | jnthn++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
18:56 dalek rakudo/nom: First pass at an overview of Perl 6 for announce.
18:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0053934d04
18:56 [Coke] but it looked like you just fudged something.
18:56 jnthn Review of ^^ welcome; bikeshedding vaguely tolerated. :)
18:57 flussence you can't not mention how good it is at being a glue language!
18:58 jnthn :)
18:58 jnthn flussence: Concrete suggestion of where to incorporate that?
18:58 * jnthn will take it given that :)
18:58 flussence in the first point, imo
18:58 jnthn Yeah
18:58 jnthn Is anyone working on ChangeLog?
18:58 lizmat jnthn: and glue and NatveCall and Inline::Perl5 ?
18:59 flussence Perl 5 is a pretty good system glue thing, but 6 is pretty damn amazing with ^^
18:59 jnthn ooh, maybe glue deserves a point of its own to mention Inline::Perl5 and NativeCall
18:59 rurban joined #perl6
18:59 pierre-vigier joined #perl6
19:00 pierre-vigier joined #perl6
19:01 grondilu m: say ([o] *.rotate(1) xx 2)([^10]);
19:01 camelia rakudo-moar 98a9c6: OUTPUT«[2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1]␤»
19:01 grondilu m: say ([o] *.rotate(1) xx 4)([^10]);
19:01 camelia rakudo-moar 98a9c6: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 10␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/upY2Au8cAr line 1␤␤»
19:01 * skids puts his paintcan down because the bikeshed is already the right color.
19:01 autarch is there any agreed upon standard for Perl 6 module Changes files?
19:02 dalek rakudo/nom: c4ce4f0 | jnthn++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
19:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Note on glue language-ness; flussence++, lizmat++
19:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c4ce4f0022
19:02 autarch so far I can't even find any Changes files in distros at all :(
19:02 flussence I think most people just leave that to git changelogs...
19:02 autarch that's not a changes file
19:03 jnthn lizmat, flussence: Let me know if ^^ covers it :)
19:03 jnthn (or more important, if it doesn't)
19:03 diakopter well there's been no deprecations yet
19:03 autarch I'll jut go with markdown for now, I guess
19:03 flussence jnthn: looks fine to me
19:03 skids autarch: it could be if you use it right -- summarize changes when adding tags.
19:03 autarch skids: yeah, that'd work
19:04 skids But of course that does not help tarball users unless you extract it.
19:04 flussence (could mention it can be extended to more, but maybe that's overselling it a bit)
19:04 [Coke] I'm getting an error in m-install. :|
19:04 RabidGravy there all 29 modules tested and fixed
19:05 flussence autarch: the way I've seen people outside perl6 do it is just generate a changelog from git when making tarballs. That's pretty trivial, there's even a git command to do it
19:05 autarch git changelogs make for terrible changes documentation
19:05 autarch unless you're very very careful about what you commit and your commit messages
19:05 flussence yeah, good point
19:06 autarch "Removed extra whitespace" - I don't care, please don't tell me that, ever ;)
19:06 flussence that's what `git-rebase -i` is for, but who does those :)
19:07 * [Coke] wonders if it's .precomp directory related.
19:08 flussence [Coke]: might be. is it around install-core-dist.pl?
19:08 lichtkind_ joined #perl6
19:09 [Coke] Aye. I'm doing a really clean and trying again.
19:09 lichtkind_ is POD a slang?
19:10 woolfy jnthn: in case you need that overview of answers to "Why Perl 6?" that you and I and lizmat worked on, the file can be found here: https://github.com/wendyga/Perl6Brochure/blob/master/Perl%206%20Brochure.odt
19:10 flussence that's what me and atweiden were seeing last night... dammit, I thought it was just a weird distro problem
19:11 tef joined #perl6
19:11 jnthn woolfy: Thanks; I had that in mind while I was writing it :)
19:11 autarch flussence: I actually wouldn't want to rebase to combine tidying commits with substantial changes
19:11 jnthn [Coke]: I'm working on the ChangeLog btw
19:11 [Coke] jnthn++ # you're the best, thanks!
19:12 ftrain2000 joined #perl6
19:13 dalek rakudo/nom: a71479b | TimToady++ | docs/ChangeLog:
19:13 dalek rakudo/nom: add TimToady's changelog entries
19:13 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a71479b49d
19:13 TimToady okay, Changelog is free for someone else to edit now
19:14 atweiden flussence: can i look at your ebuild?
19:14 jnthn grmbl, now I'll have to merge :P
19:14 TimToady haha, I win :P
19:14 flussence atweiden: yeah, https://gitlab.com/flussence/perl6-overlay/blob/master/dev-lang/rakudo/rakudo-9999.ebuild
19:15 flussence the last line's the only important bit in it, really
19:15 * TimToady will only be paying half a mind for a bit, we're doing presents
19:15 flussence also I can reproduce the failures if I system-install moar/nqp and build my local rakudo git clone against those...
19:16 atweiden flussence: did you manage to install from nom yet?
19:17 flussence nope, 2015.11 is fine
19:18 woolfy jnthn++
19:18 virtualsue joined #perl6
19:19 mr_ron joined #perl6
19:19 [Coke] ./perl6-m tools/build/install-core-dist.pl
19:19 [Coke] No writeable path found
19:19 flussence that's the one, yeah :(
19:19 Juerd joined #perl6
19:19 lizmat [Coke]: are you running under root ?
19:19 atweiden [Coke] it's due to a change in Makefile-Moar
19:20 [Coke] no, I'm running as me.
19:20 [Coke] and installing to ./install
19:21 [Coke] atweiden: that file has changed since Dec 1st.
19:22 AlexDaniel oh wow, what a backlog
19:22 * [Coke] tries an even cleaner start. :|
19:22 TimToady btw, my throttle still hung
19:22 AlexDaniel Bailador is indeed not so nice. For example, you cannot use POST parameters right now
19:22 flussence [Coke]: I don't think any amount of cleaning will fix this one :/
19:22 AlexDaniel See this https://github.com/tadzik/Bailador/pull/44
19:22 TimToady and my adverbs.t still didn't
19:22 lizmat TimToady: still at test 17 ?
19:23 lizmat adverbs.t never hung, did they ?
19:23 lizmat only (not) fail when they were supposed to ?
19:23 TimToady test 21
19:23 kjs joined #perl6
19:23 * flussence starts a TEST_JOBS=1 run and disappears for 5-10 mins
19:24 dalek doc: 81f6147 | skids++ | doc/Language/control.pod:
19:24 dalek doc: Sync some comments with reality, provide a non-slippy example
19:24 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/81f6147a70
19:24 [Coke] I was trying to do the release out of my long term rakudo dev copy; haven't had trouble with that in the past, or with builds in recent days, but it's possible a fresh clone will work.
19:24 jnthn Why did I offer to do the ChangeLog when we had 800 commits?! :)
19:25 [Coke] (also, I almost NEVER do --backends=ALL, which I am doing as part of the release)
19:25 [Coke] jnthn++ # you're the best, thanks!
19:25 * [Coke] adds that to a shortcut key.
19:25 atweiden [Coke] are you running make DESTDIR=... install by chance?
19:25 lizmat Files=1092, Tests=51419, 281 wallclock secs (13.77 usr  4.09 sys + 1717.74 cusr 151.43 csys = 1887.03 CPU)  # clean spectest for VERSION 2015.12
19:26 RabidGravy yay
19:27 RabidGravy everyone++
19:27 [Coke] atweiden: no
19:27 dalek roast: d51b8cb | lizmat++ | S17-supply/throttle.t:
19:27 dalek roast: Don't run more tests that can hang for some
19:27 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d51b8cbe43
19:27 lizmat TimToady [Coke]  ^^^
19:28 mr_ron left #perl6
19:28 TimToady running again
19:29 TimToady I assume that's in master
19:29 [Coke] looks like. we still need to merge any recent changes from master to 6.c if that makes sense.
19:29 * [Coke] 's leg hair starts to singe as he builds the JVM backend...
19:30 lizmat TimToady: yes
19:30 TimToady [Coke]: don't you need a mainframe for that?
19:30 [Coke] to singe my leg hair? ;)
19:31 * lizmat suggests a paint stripper
19:31 TimToady oh, I thought you said "sing"
19:32 cygx master-master-nom spectest result on mingw: https://gist.github.com/cygx/c6a270471dddceae9682
19:33 cygx bye, #perl6, and happy release day o/
19:33 BenGoldberg_ joined #perl6
19:34 virtualsue joined #perl6
19:34 TimToady in any event, I'm not sure JVM supports unsinged yet
19:35 regreg joined #perl6
19:35 rindolf it may support unsung integers.
19:36 dalek doc: b385a5d | skids++ | doc/Language/control.pod:
19:36 dalek doc: Remove some spurious "#->"s and sync a couple comments to say output
19:36 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b385a5da48
19:36 dalek doc: 9a5d617 | skids++ | doc/Language/control.pod:
19:36 dalek doc: avoid a redeclaration warning if example code is run
19:36 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9a5d617ea3
19:36 RabidGravy I'm fairly certain I couldn't actually put this laptop on my la[ safely
19:36 RabidGravy lap
19:37 BenGoldberg_ joined #perl6
19:37 TimToady well, throttle.t didn't *hang* this time, but...
19:37 dalek tablets: 78a2c9d | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/ (4 files):
19:37 dalek tablets: first half of new concise B navigation
19:37 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/78a2c9dead
19:37 lizmat that's because I removed all of the potentially hanging tests
19:38 TimToady but it says it failed 1/17
19:38 lizmat Files=1139, Tests=125759, 407 wallclock secs (23.41 usr  4.87 sys + 2600.88 cusr 171.78 csys = 2800.94 CPU)  # make stresstest
19:38 TimToady will know which one in a bit
19:38 lizmat stresstest had one fail in t/spec/S17-procasync/stress.t
19:38 TimToady t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.t failed 3/6
19:39 TimToady this is all with =4
19:39 FROGGS woolfy: the "how-to-get-rakudo" link appears twice at the top of the second page of the brochure
19:39 cbk_ joined #perl6
19:40 [Coke] yup, still dies even with a completely fresh install. I suspect no one has done --backends=ALL in a while.
19:40 TimToady throttle failed test 3
19:40 lizmat [Coke]: I have separate clones for Moar and JVM  :-(
19:41 TimToady on IO-Socket-Async, failed 1, then: planned 6 tests but ran 4
19:42 TimToady so failed 1, passed 2,3,4, blew up
19:42 vendethiel joined #perl6
19:42 [Coke] well, if my fix is remove the ALL option from the backend configurator, I think that's fine.
19:43 [Coke] checking to see if it works sans ALL
19:43 lizmat TimToady: test 3 is timing related, may need a little tweak
19:45 [Coke] yup. that was it.
19:47 dalek roast: e226d6a | lizmat++ | S17-supply/throttle.t:
19:47 dalek roast: Only use one now, instead of 4
19:47 dalek roast:
19:47 dalek roast: Should be cheaper, so more likely to succeed because of larger
19:47 dalek roast: maximum value range
19:47 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e226d6a923
19:47 lizmat TimToady [Coke]  ^^^
19:47 sno joined #perl6
19:47 lizmat fwiw, t/spec/S17-procasync/stress.t also fails when run by itself
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: 759b5cd | jnthn++ | docs/ChangeLog:
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: Fill out the ChangeLog.
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/759b5cd5f4
19:49 jnthn Phew!
19:51 lizmat jnthn: List.first?
19:51 lizmat List.head / tail you mean?
19:51 dalek rakudo/nom: bc35c92 | jnthn++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
19:51 dalek rakudo/nom: Call out our excellent Unicode support too.
19:51 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bc35c92a5d
19:51 jnthn lizmat: I was just following the commit messages :P
19:52 lizmat ah, that one... ok  :-)
19:53 lizmat List.first() and List.first(:end)
19:54 jnthn Please tweak it if you know better :)
19:54 flussence Files=1092, Tests=51419, 1770 wallclock secs (10.07 usr  4.81 sys + 1486.49 cusr 77.22 csys = 1578.59 CPU)
19:54 jnthn Same to everyone else, though the ChangeLog is so epic...
19:54 flussence Result: PASS
19:54 flussence :D
19:55 * lizmat is tweaking
19:55 jnthn woolfy++ # sending me the doc, reminidng me I should mention Unicode stuffs in the announce :)
19:56 woolfy FROGGS: thanks, will update the file and upload
19:57 [Coke] ... crap, I might have caused my own issues with ALL locally. re-retesting!
19:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 88c778a | lizmat++ | docs/ChangeLog:
19:57 dalek rakudo/nom: ChangeLog tweaks
19:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/88c778a77a
19:59 Woodi maybe mentioning Perl6 is good at prototyping stuff ? AlexDaniel mentioned lastly v6 code is shorter then pseudo-code :)
19:59 jnthn lizmat: Nice catches :)
20:00 AlexDaniel it is :)
20:01 TimToady IO-Socket-Async.t failed test 1, everything else clean
20:01 TimToady (at =4)
20:02 TimToady run bare 'make spectest' now
20:02 TimToady *ning
20:02 nine jnthn: if I may bikeshed a little: I think it would be a good idea to use the words "backwards compatibility" in combination with Inline::Perl5. This really sets us apart from other well known languages.
20:03 TimToady yeah, who else supports Perl 5 compatibility?
20:04 nine or rather some ancestor ;)
20:04 TimToady ohhh, is that what you meant? ;)
20:08 timotimo + Make (1,2,3)[2] = 4 and (1,2,3)[3] give same error
20:08 hankache joined #perl6
20:08 timotimo os?
20:08 timotimo m: say (1,2,3][3]
20:08 camelia rakudo-moar a71479: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/FLBwtfuErq␤Unable to parse expression in parenthesized expression; couldn't find final ')' ␤at /tmp/FLBwtfuErq:1␤------> 3say (1,2,37⏏5][3]␤    expecting any of:␤        statement end␤        …»
20:08 nine TimToady: aren't you supposed to handle some presents right now? ;)
20:09 timotimo m: say (1,2,3)[3]
20:09 camelia rakudo-moar a71479: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
20:09 timotimo m: say (1,2,3)[2] = 4
20:09 camelia rakudo-moar a71479: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Int␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/UziRryGqSe line 1␤␤»
20:09 hankache hola #perl6
20:09 timotimo m: say (1,2,3)[3] = 4
20:09 camelia rakudo-moar a71479: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Nil␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Dj3FsZeDy_ line 1␤␤»
20:09 timotimo oh, like that
20:09 TimToady we're opening in order of increasing age, and there are still several before me
20:09 [Coke] ok. the weird install error I got was my own fault. However, the jvm backend fails to install (which I believe is a known issue)
20:09 hankache hiya timotimo nine TimToady [Coke]
20:09 FROGGS [Coke]: it is
20:10 hankache hello FROGGS
20:10 timotimo hi you
20:10 FROGGS hi hankache
20:10 jnthn nine: I'm struggling to see how to word it, but +1 if you want to tweak that :)
20:11 hankache hello jnthn
20:11 timotimo hankache: i'm not sure anybody knows that i wanted to put your perl6intro into the star release
20:11 dalek doc: 0ac8b6c | skids++ | doc/Language/control.pod:
20:11 dalek doc: Improve with/orwith section examples
20:11 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0ac8b6c1c6
20:11 timotimo also, it'd be awesome if we had a new download rakudo page somehow
20:12 jnthn o/ hankache
20:12 hankache timotimo i have no problem
20:12 [Coke] I don't know who aside from pmichaud has access to rakudo.org
20:12 jdv79 is everyone taking off til the new year?
20:12 [Coke] We should update perl6.org once the rakudo.org downloads are in place.
20:12 diakopter [Coke]: pmichaud said to email him to ask for access
20:12 jdv79 or anyone
20:13 mst Woodi: my pseudocode tends to look about half way between http://p3rl.org/Moops and perl6, yeah
20:13 hankache Dear All, timotimo suggested that we put put the perl6intro.com text in rakudo star.
20:13 hankache any objections?
20:13 timotimo i *think* i have access to rakudo.org
20:13 [Coke] diakopter: I don't think we need to update rakudo.org; perl6.org is more important.
20:14 stmuk +1 for a new download page
20:14 jdv79 ditto
20:14 jnthn +1
20:14 hankache +1
20:15 hankache a SINGLE download page (no swinging from perl6.org to rakudo.org to github/rakudobrew)
20:15 [Coke] a new download page where? http://rakudo.org/downloads/ ?
20:15 hankache [Coke] perl6.org
20:16 FROGGS that might make sense indeed
20:16 hankache host all instructions on a single page
20:16 stmuk a download page on perl6.org with shorter install instructions
20:16 hankache ++ what stmuk said
20:16 mst also, I (or somebody) should patch rakudobrew so it still creates the shims if you don't have the dir in $PATH
20:17 * mst did 'bin/rakudobrew build moar' and was most confused by that
20:17 hankache are the MSI's for windows ready?
20:17 timotimo hankache: um, how is it suppesod to be ready?
20:18 hankache timotimo ready or not here I come ;)
20:18 hankache new Perl 6 motto ^^
20:18 hankache :D
20:18 diakopter I think moritz has the .msi code signing keys?
20:20 hankache well if we can let windows user have MSI and OSX use homebrew it would be great. We Linux users can always use rakudobrew
20:20 timotimo i didn't know we could sign msi keys
20:20 [Coke] hankache: first is the moarvm release. then the nqp release. that is where we are now. then the compiler release (which is all that is on deck for today). then the star release. THEN the .msi release.
20:20 hankache [Coke] indeed
20:21 espadrine joined #perl6
20:21 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/coke/a98c654a92e8bcfcc105 - OS X test failures.
20:21 jdv79 arguably a one shot big bang release would have been more shock and awe ish
20:21 thowe rakudobrew seems to work fine on OpenBSD.  You just need to alter your login.conf to up a mem limit to compile.
20:22 thowe PM helped me figure that out at YAPC
20:22 * hankache hopes that one day he can write code and help not only in documentation
20:23 jnthn Documentation is also really important.
20:23 TimToady bare 'make spectest' also fails t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.t test 1, but maybe it's just my name service?
20:23 timotimo you can say it's more important than code
20:23 [Coke] # Failed test 'Async listen on bogus hostname'
20:23 [Coke] # at t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.t line 12
20:23 [Coke] # expected: 'Failed to resolve host name'
20:23 [Coke] #      got: 'address not available'
20:24 gist_nb joined #perl6
20:24 TimToady yeah, that
20:24 [Coke] Where is that string coming from?
20:24 jnthn That's an overspecific test...
20:24 hankache thank you
20:24 jdv79 timotimo: you can say anything.  doesnt make it real;)
20:24 [Coke] jnthn: do you see how to adjust it?
20:25 bpmedley_ joined #perl6
20:26 [Coke] t/spec/S17-procasync/stress.t ..
20:26 [Coke] 1..1
20:26 [Coke] Internal error: zeroed target thread ID in work pass
20:26 dalek roast: edc672b | jnthn++ | S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.t:
20:26 dalek roast: Don't rely on an unreliable message.
20:26 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/edc672bd7f
20:27 lizmat [Coke]: since jnthn will not tweak anything in that area atm, suggest we remove that file from stress test
20:27 [Coke] jnthn++
20:27 [Coke] the stress.t test?
20:27 lizmat [Coke]: yes
20:27 jnthn Yeah, let's...that would be a MoarVM fix and a hard to find one at that :/
20:27 [Coke] ok. if I remove it from spectest.data, it's going to get removed from teh 6.c branch also.
20:27 jnthn That's fine.
20:28 [Coke] which seems reasonable. we can add it back in when it's working.
20:28 jnthn [Coke]: ooc, what happened with 6.c and tests that "use experimental"?
20:28 [Coke] okee dokey.
20:28 jnthn Were they excluded?
20:28 woolfy FROGGS: I changed the file already 2 weeks ago, never uploaded it...  (I am not quite familiar with github yet), did now (lizmat++ for help).
20:28 [Coke] no, it wa a straight copy to save a snapshot.
20:28 jnthn ok
20:29 [Coke] if we decide we want to be more clever, we can do that. For now, I'll add a note to the README that anything that has an experimental in it isn't technically part of the spec.
20:29 jnthn wfm
20:30 dalek rakudo/nom: c87e351 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
20:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove temporarily problematic file.
20:30 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:30 dalek rakudo/nom: The goal is to eventually make this part of Christmas, but not today
20:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c87e351d88
20:30 vendethiel m: sub f {Int}; sub x returns BEGIN f {};
20:30 camelia rakudo-moar 88c778: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/jfWw_UGllD␤Invalid typename 'BEGIN'␤at /tmp/jfWw_UGllD:1␤------> 3sub f {Int}; sub x returns BEGIN7⏏5 f {};␤»
20:30 jdv79 i thought anything not tested by roast was not part of spec
20:30 vendethiel on a scale of "you're insane" and "you're insane", how insane is that? ^
20:31 mst [Coke]: what's the difference between 'compiler release' and 'star release' ?
20:31 jdv79 which is something of a blessing that some stuff is poorly tested
20:32 jdv79 :)
20:32 jnthn m: sub f {Int}; constant T = f; sub x returns T { }
20:32 camelia rakudo-moar 88c778: ( no output )
20:32 dalek roast/6.c: 3576604 | coke++ | README:
20:32 dalek roast/6.c: Experimental...
20:32 dalek roast/6.c: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3576604197
20:33 jnthn m: sub f {Int}; sub x returns ::(BEGIN f) { }
20:33 camelia rakudo-moar 88c778: ( no output )
20:33 jnthn m: sub f {Int}; sub x returns ::(BEGIN f) { }; say &x.returns
20:33 camelia rakudo-moar 88c778: OUTPUT«Method 'gist' not found for invocant of class '(BEGIN f)'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/hEcANnzeVT line 1␤␤»
20:33 jnthn lol
20:33 [Coke] mst: kind of like the difference between the perl 5.22 release and the strawberry perl 5.22.02 release.
20:33 jnthn vendethiel: Insane :)
20:33 [Coke] R* is the compiler, and panda, and Task::Star, basically.
20:34 RabidGravy on the Westbrook-Thompson scale it's Keith Richards
20:34 timotimo mst: every compiler release has a section in it about the exact difference about rakudo release and star release
20:34 vendethiel jnthn:..mmmh
20:35 jdv79 perhaps for 6.d we can release everyting at once?  that'd be cool.
20:35 vendethiel m: sub f {Int}; sub x returns ::(BEGIN f) { 5 }; say x;
20:35 camelia rakudo-moar 88c778: OUTPUT«Type check failed for return value; expected (BEGIN f) but got Int␤  in sub x at /tmp/mQuqsJ2CA1 line 1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/mQuqsJ2CA1 line 1␤␤»
20:35 vendethiel lol.
20:35 mst timotimo: had I found that section, I wouldn't've asked :)
20:36 [Coke] is there a way to view .md files on github using the UI but not rendered?
20:36 [Coke] raw is too raw
20:36 timotimo oof.
20:36 [Coke] https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/docs/announce/2015.12.md , scroll to the bottom
20:37 simcop2387 joined #perl6
20:37 [Coke] is there a way to ask git for all the commits that it would merge if you merged?
20:37 mst merge to a scratch branch after mounting a scratch monkey
20:37 mst beware of dropbears
20:38 timotimo there's no problem with merging and then resetting :P
20:38 jdv79 monkeys and bears... where?!
20:38 dalek roast/6.c: 0390411 | coke++ | S17-procasync/stress.t:
20:38 dalek roast/6.c: No longer a Christmas present.
20:38 dalek roast/6.c: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0390411589
20:39 zostay joined #perl6
20:39 timotimo australia
20:39 * jdv79 is out.  as i think zoffix is already.
20:39 timotimo out of what?
20:40 rjbs joined #perl6
20:40 jdv79 of here
20:40 jdv79 more specifically passed out or about to be
20:40 [Coke] I don't want to merge everything. Guess the easiest thing here is to cherry pick.
20:40 jdv79 nite
20:41 lizmat gnight jdv79
20:41 RabidGravy I was just thinking of cracking the keg of Adnams Shingle Shells
20:41 lucasb joined #perl6
20:41 AlexDaniel tadzik: by the way, what about doing something with https://github.com/tadzik/Bailador/issues/43 ?
20:41 [Coke] Sorry we're losing people in the early time zones. :|
20:42 timotimo uh oh
20:42 TimToady well, that's their fault :)
20:42 AlexDaniel tadzik: I mean, there's a pull request that works
20:42 geekosaur joined #perl6
20:42 woolfy Dutch time zone still present!
20:43 mst http://whats.all.this.brouhaha.com/2007/05/07/always-mount-a-scratch-monkey-the-real-story/ # always mount a scratch monkey
20:44 TimToady anyone from an earlier timezone coulda volunteered to do the releng :)
20:45 jnthn [Coke]: You still have 13 days, 1 hour and 15 minutes in my current timezone ;)
20:45 * [Coke] stares at git.
20:46 TimToady .oO(and anything not tested here is implicitly experimental...)
20:47 tadzik AlexDaniel: travis doesn't exactly agree with the "works" part :)
20:50 dalek roast/6.c: 333841c | coke++ | README:
20:50 dalek roast/6.c: Be more clear about the spec. TimToady++
20:50 dalek roast/6.c: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/333841cf4e
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: e764329 | lizmat++ | S17-supply/throttle.t:
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: Hopefully fix hanging issues, TimToady++
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e764329e92
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: 8079e28 | lizmat++ | S32- (2 files):
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: Skip strange adverb tests to be caught by MMD
20:52 dalek roast/6.c:
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: For some yet unknown reason, using a strange adverb that should be
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: caught by MMD, does not always work.  Worse, if you skip the first
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: test that failed to die, it will not die on the next test.  So for
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: now, all such tests are skipped to provide a reliable test result
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: for the 6.c release
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8079e280fb
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: d016d27 | lizmat++ | S17-supply/throttle.t:
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: Remove potentially hanging tests for 6.c release
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d016d27ce6
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: 6b04927 | lizmat++ | S17-supply/throttle.t:
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: Don't run more tests that can hang for some
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6b04927114
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: 44d8d14 | lizmat++ | S17-supply/throttle.t:
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: Only use one now, instead of 4
20:52 dalek roast/6.c:
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: Should be cheaper, so more likely to succeed because of larger
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: maximum value range
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/44d8d140d0
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: c5459b7 | jnthn++ | S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.t:
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: Don't rely on an unreliable message.
20:52 dalek roast/6.c: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c5459b7d21
20:53 * lizmat confirms 2015.12 built ok on JVM / OS X
20:54 [Coke] build is ok, install dies, yes?
20:54 lizmat running spectest without install atm
20:54 lizmat want me to stop that and do a make install, [Coke] ?
20:55 [Coke] no, that's fine. We're not worried about JVM today, really.
20:57 hahainternet for all you perl6ers working on christmas
20:57 lizmat ===SORRY!===
20:57 lizmat Missing serialize function for REPR ContextRef
20:57 hahainternet o/
20:57 lizmat [Coke]: that's what you mean ?
20:58 [Coke] aye
20:59 [Coke] it's been like that for ages.
20:59 [Coke] (weeks)
20:59 Sm4rkey joined #perl6
21:00 lizmat so basically precomp is dead on the JVM atm
21:00 timotimo :(
21:01 [Coke] We can probably commit to getting the JVM working in time for Divali. :)
21:02 hankache timotimo when should a pdf version of perl6intro be ready? I need to see if I can sneak in some changes.
21:03 kjs joined #perl6
21:03 timotimo hankache: coke would know, he's doing the release
21:04 [Coke] perl6intro doesn't have anything to do with the compiler release, SFAIK.
21:04 jnthn Yeah, it'd go in the Star release
21:04 timotimo yeah
21:05 timotimo oh, coke isn't doing the star release?
21:05 hankache yes of course
21:05 [Coke] timotimo: I never signed up for that, no.
21:05 timotimo i see!
21:05 hankache and that gives me what a day, two?
21:05 [Coke] I'll check it out after the compiler is done and see what's involved.
21:06 [Coke] hankache: probably.
21:06 [Coke] but we're still doing a release every month.
21:06 hankache excellent
21:06 hankache [Coke] thanks
21:07 nine git log nom..HEAD
21:07 nine Coke: ^^^
21:07 nine could also be three dots
21:07 [Coke] nine: ?
21:08 [Coke] if that's in answer to my previous question about merging for roast/ I'll all done, it's pushed.
21:09 RabidGravy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cPXEo6gqBI
21:09 TimToady testing against 6.3, single threaded
21:09 lichtkind__ joined #perl6
21:09 TimToady er, 6.c
21:11 woolfy Ah, no Rakudo Star yet.  Sompe people (on Facebook and elsewhere) will ask when that is going to happen.
21:11 [Coke] jezu, it's 1600 already
21:11 [Coke] there is currently no plan for Star. Today is the compiler.
21:11 [Coke] and the spec.
21:11 * TimToady is very happy that we are delivering exactly what we promised at the beginning of this year, so everyone++
21:12 woolfy [Coke]: I know, but still, that is what is going to be asked.  I will stop nagging.
21:12 TimToady we promised a test suite, and a compiler running on moarvm
21:12 [Coke] I'm telling you the answer. :)
21:12 timotimo how big is the amount of people who feel that we're delivering what we promised? :P
21:12 [Coke] I suspect that a Star will hit by year end.
21:12 woolfy woohoo!
21:13 stmuk . o O ( Christmas Star )
21:13 TimToady timotimo: the people who can read, I suspect :)
21:13 [Coke] I'll work on it Monday if no one has grabbed it by then.
21:13 hankache Working compiler + Release note + install instructions = we delivered
21:13 timotimo a star will hit and destroy all of humanity on earth?
21:13 jnthn People on the internet don't read, they just look at headlines and then it's back to cat pictures :P
21:14 woolfy Meow
21:14 dalek doc: c898c17 | lizmat++ | doc/Type/DateTime.pod:
21:14 dalek doc: Note that you can use :day as synonym for :1day
21:14 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c898c177a4
21:14 TimToady True!
21:14 [Coke] I have never done an .msi before, however.
21:15 [Coke] (nor do I have ready access to a win dev box)
21:15 stmuk https://v.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/231FA81A331291756351206453248_4f545b6be62.5.0.3857687054576748397.mp4
21:15 stmuk ^^ santa cat
21:16 timotimo <3
21:17 AlexDaniel tadzik: did you read my comment?
21:17 Odud joined #perl6
21:17 timotimo mroooowwww
21:17 [ptc]_ joined #perl6
21:18 Woodi so who promised compiler ? releasing tests alone would be much simpler... ;)
21:18 * TimToady thought adding a compiler might be a nice gesture
21:18 vendethiel @everyone>>++
21:18 * [Coke] is going through what is hopefully the final moar stresstest run...
21:18 * virtualsue gets ready to open some perlsecco
21:19 * hankache looks for my bottle of absynthe
21:19 Skarsnik I wonder how many RT/issue in eco the release will generate x)
21:19 * [Coke] wishes he had a bottle of perl left to drink today!
21:19 FROGGS joined #perl6
21:20 timotimo Skarsnik: i'll be glad to smash some bugs to pieces
21:20 timotimo but i really hope people will be kind enough to give us golfed examples and search for duplicates before submitting
21:21 Theophane hmm
21:21 woolfy [Coke] do I need to call FedEx to send you a box of the bubbles from Perl's Schmitt-Weber?  Like, "delivery in 2-3 hours!"...
21:21 * TimToady saved his Braga port for today, but it's back home, so will have to wait a day or two :)
21:21 dalek doc: b6f8478 | lizmat++ | doc/Type/Date.pod:
21:21 dalek doc: Document Date.later/earlier functionality
21:21 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b6f84781b3
21:21 TimToady I don't expect it will spoil in that time
21:21 * woolfy still has some boxes with Perl wine...
21:22 RabidGravy I've got some La Chouffe which will lively things up
21:22 TomLeg joined #perl6
21:22 * jnthn is sick and has been told by wife, "no alcohol"...so will have to wait to celebrate
21:22 AlexDaniel tadzik: the only reason why current tests are passing is because something is wrong with tests
21:22 [Coke] woolfy: hee. no, I have some scotch about.
21:22 AlexDaniel tadzik: maybe there are no tests for POST params at all
21:22 woolfy [Coke]++
21:23 stmuk I'm considering this TL;DR friendly perl6.org page
21:23 stmuk http://li1360-252.members.linode.com:5000/downloads/index.html
21:23 stmuk I'm no zoffix so it looks rubbish
21:24 tadzik AlexDaniel: it's very possible
21:24 AlexDaniel tadzik: ah right, and current travis status is 「build | error」
21:24 autarch stmuk - I'd say that currently the best way is to use rakudobrew, not to build from source directly
21:24 pierre-v_ joined #perl6
21:24 autarch which of course your page goes on to show, but the phrasing is a bit confusing
21:24 colomon joined #perl6
21:24 timotimo stmuk: got an idea for the bit on the right?
21:25 TimToady is the best way to build from source really a tarball?  I'd think a git checkout would be more to the liking of some...
21:26 AlexDaniel tadzik: anyway, you can try krakan's pull request in a separate branch (together with my 1-character change) and see what travis says
21:26 hankache best way to build = rakudobrew
21:26 tadzik AlexDaniel: yeah, it needs some love on multiple levels, clearly
21:26 autarch yeah, I don't think documenting anything besides rakudobrew is a great idea
21:26 Skarsnik TimToady, git from a fixed release them x)
21:26 autarch s/documenting/recommending/
21:26 stmuk timotimo: I'm a server-side dev not fullstack ;)
21:26 timotimo TimToady: that'd be the best way if we start using master vs nom right away ;)
21:27 autarch err, sorry - I meant .subst( rx{'documenting'}, 'recommending' )
21:27 stmuk ok I will tweak wording
21:27 timotimo or we could tell people to use 2015.12 tag like stmuks rakudobrew invocation example shows
21:27 virtualsue huh? doesn't it say to use rakudobrew?
21:28 timotimo it does
21:28 timotimo but the very first part is about tarballs
21:28 Skarsnik maybe some focus should be on a useful Task::Star for like the next month *throwing random idea around*
21:28 dalek rakudo/nom: 6c93fdc | coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
21:28 dalek rakudo/nom: don't forget to install
21:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6c93fdcff0
21:29 timotimo Skarsnik: what speaks against a star release this month?
21:29 hankache stmuk you can make it simpler: "To build Perl 6 run the following: git clone..........rakudobrew build panda"
21:29 lizmat [Coke]: shouldn't we run make test *before* make install ?
21:29 timotimo i didn't know that's out of the question already
21:29 virtualsue http://hellogiggles.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/22/you-popular-cute-cat-the-very-creative_113506.jpg
21:29 stmuk "Currently the best way to install the first Perl 6 release is to build from source either via an extracted tarball or rakudobrew"
21:29 hankache IMO let's not tell them to install TAsk::Star
21:29 [Coke] lizmat: ... yah, that makes sense.
21:29 * nine notes that all the weird module installation problems in the past few days involved rakudobrew
21:29 lizmat even after make stresstest ?
21:29 timotimo hankache: but didn't we just spend a bunch of time making sure task::star installs?
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: ab1a440 | coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: test first. lizmat++
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ab1a4403ae
21:30 Skarsnik I mean the content of task::star is hightly questionnable
21:30 hankache timotimo DBIish needs scripts to be run on DB before installation
21:30 [Coke] lizmat: note that these are the tests for the build/release, not for the common user.
21:31 timotimo hankache: but it doesn't show test failures if the DB wasn't set up yet
21:31 hankache it will light up and people will start complaining
21:31 lizmat [Coke]: oki
21:31 [Coke] if the install step is going to fail due to precomp, you want to know soon.
21:31 Skarsnik hankache, hm.. the test should skip if not able to create stuff
21:31 hankache in that case then ok
21:31 timotimo yeah, it will light up. but the moment the people copy-paste the "error message" into a bug report, they'll probably see it's all "ok" and "skipped", not "FAIL"
21:32 TimToady on Linux, 'make spectest', "All tests successful." quick, ship it!
21:32 Skarsnik What is missing for DBIish install to be great is having panda informaing of what lib are needed to make it work ~~
21:32 hankache if libs are not installed will it still complain?
21:33 Skarsnik DBIish should install even with no lib/db server
21:33 stmuk OK modified version
21:33 stmuk http://li1360-252.members.linode.com:5000/downloads/index.html
21:33 timotimo it should. doesn't it?
21:33 hankache excellent no error messages = happy user
21:33 Skarsnik I think it does
21:33 nine bikeshed committe: this ok for the announcement? "Serves as a great glue language, allowing for easy calling of C/C++ (using NativeCall) and staying compatible with Perl 5 (via Inline::Perl5)"
21:33 stmuk exact wording issues aside .. is that generally useful?
21:34 timotimo stmuk: how do you feel about putting links to perl6intro.com, learnxinyminutes and the jnthn perl6 introduction course slides on the side in an extra box?
21:34 RabidGravy yeah, I think there sould be some way of indicating external (i.e. non-perl) dependencies in the META6 but I haven't worked out how
21:34 Skarsnik Last time I installed DBIish was on my dedicated server with no lib installed and only a pg server runing and it worked
21:34 timotimo nine: i'd totally also include Inline::Python and perhaps even Inline::Lua
21:34 stmuk timotimo: I've no idea how to do that but would welcome PR
21:34 Skarsnik RabidGravy, I made a RT for that x)
21:34 timotimo stmuk: let me have a quick look
21:34 hankache stmuk zoffix should be able to help
21:35 Skarsnik It will be greatly useful for package developer
21:35 RabidGravy indeed
21:35 Skarsnik or tools like dh_make in debian that create deb package from cpan
21:35 TimToady how 'bout just: Serves as a great glue language, compatible with C/C++ via NativeCall, and with Perl 5 via Inline::Per5
21:36 hankache if i may add something: wouldn't it be better to give the users one single option? installing user rakudobrew ?
21:36 nine RabidGravy: well, using qualified names like "depends": [ "DBI:from<Perl5>" ]
21:36 Skarsnik hm I am not sure about the great glue language. There is no doc to use perl6 in another stuff?
21:36 Skarsnik *from
21:36 TimToady glue mostly just refers to having lots of APIs
21:36 kjs nine: glue language is underselling it perhaps.
21:36 TimToady like DBIish
21:36 RabidGravy nine, that doesn't help for C libraries
21:36 stmuk timotimo: git@github.com:stmuk/perl6.org.git
21:36 Skarsnik But pointing Inline::Perl5 and NativeCall is still a good idea
21:37 hahainternet when i can include perl6 in my Go program to run alongside libtcl i'll be the happiest persone ver
21:37 RabidGravy and when I proposed an Alien type thing it all went off with the negativity
21:38 Skarsnik Like "The ecosystem is still very young, but there is a great support to use perl5 modules and C/C++ library"
21:38 nine note: the point about the glue language with NativeCall and Inline::Perl5 is already in the announcement. I'm just trying to get the point about compatibility into the sentence.
21:38 nine RabidGravy: for C libraries I'd totally rip off whatever rpm does
21:38 RabidGravy :)
21:38 hankache throw something related to the web
21:39 raiph joined #perl6
21:39 Skarsnik Alien type thing?
21:39 RabidGravy A module that arranges for the dependency
21:40 RabidGravy so e.g Alien::Libshout would check whether libshout is installed and if not install it
21:41 hankache we have a DSL for creating web applications. can we throw in something related?
21:42 RabidGravy and you'd use the module to get the library details so it can put it wherever it wants
21:42 Skarsnik sound like a workaround x) You mean you depend on module that will just have its test checking/trying to install stuff?
21:42 RabidGravy yeah
21:42 cpage_ joined #perl6
21:42 dalek rakudo/nom: fc64e35 | coke++ | docs/ChangeLog:
21:42 dalek rakudo/nom: fix typo
21:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fc64e353b4
21:42 dalek rakudo/nom: 7e50816 | coke++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
21:42 dalek rakudo/nom: Add Changelog entries to release announcement
21:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7e50816518
21:42 hankache RabidGravy https://github.com/jonathanstowe/LibraryCheck
21:43 timotimo stmuk: https://gist.github.com/timo/e0950aba2c31c7e5a314 - how do you like this?
21:43 timotimo oh, you actaully do have a git repository for that
21:43 timotimo let me give you an actual PR
21:43 RabidGravy hankache, yes I wrote it :)
21:43 Skarsnik I don't know, having just the info on Meta could allow for panda/whatever to have interesting behavior according to the plateform
21:43 hankache oh silly me
21:44 nine RabidGravy: now that I think of it. I think, missed an opportunity there. Would have been cool to say use foo:from<C>:ver<13.2>; # loads libfoo.so.13.2 and then is native('foo'); # reference the already located and loaded lib instead of going off and search for every "is native"
21:45 stmuk timotimo: cool
21:45 timotimo stmuk: ugh, now i'll haev to fork the repo to make the PR
21:45 timotimo can you just give me access? :P
21:45 RabidGravy nine, yeah could fly
21:45 raiph joined #perl6
21:45 Juerd I think "as long as you stick to the features that are actually tested in the test suite, that is. " should mention how vast the test suite is. Someone who doesn't know how extensively rakudo is tested, could read the line as though it means that only a few things are set in stone.
21:45 Juerd What's the current test count?
21:45 dalek rakudo/nom: d62266b | coke++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
21:45 dalek rakudo/nom: moar unicode
21:45 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d62266b082
21:45 Skarsnik nine, I was thinking of something like this for NC, having to say in your module "use this lib" and just say sub foo is native
21:46 timotimo Juerd: to be fair, zefram thinks the test suite is a few orders of magnitude too small
21:46 Juerd timotimo: I suggest we just add the number of tests and let people decide for themselves if that's a lot or not :)
21:46 awwaiid timotimo: yeah... but it's pretty challenging to build an implementation that complies with it as-is :)
21:46 lizmat 51K+
21:47 [Coke] ok. I'm about to do the tag...
21:47 nine timotimo: and from what I've seen so far, I'd actually say zefram's right.
21:47 Juerd Oh, never mind then. Won't make it before the tag probably :)
21:47 jnthn Well, we could mention the number of stress tests to make it sounds closer ;)
21:48 lizmat 125K+
21:48 [Coke] I can add that.
21:48 Juerd One last request... can "Have the appropriate amount of fun" get an exclamation mark? :)
21:49 [Coke] that are passing? I see 123911
21:49 Theophane :)
21:49 lizmat Juerd: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-12-25#i_11776671
21:49 dalek rakudo/nom: 686d3eb | coke++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
21:49 dalek rakudo/nom: EXCITEMENT. I HAZ IT.
21:49 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:49 dalek rakudo/nom: Juerd++
21:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/686d3eb2fc
21:49 Juerd :)
21:49 [Coke] I'll just say over 120K. :)
21:50 Skarsnik timotimo, and also mean for task::star to maybe focus on working on module that are lacking (or too WIP). Like I wanted to work on a ZIP file format, but the module only allow me to show the head and unzip somewhere, nothing else x)
21:50 timotimo nine: yeah, kind of
21:50 [Coke] lizmat: ah, does that include the inline::perl5 tests?
21:50 lizmat [Coke]: no
21:50 timotimo that's additional unicode tests and such
21:51 Juerd Unicode tests are very important!
21:51 Juerd That's as much part of the language as everything else, isn't it? :)
21:51 dalek rakudo/nom: d925612 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
21:51 dalek rakudo/nom: Tweak the glue language sentence in the announcement
21:51 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:51 dalek rakudo/nom: Just want us to be clear about being compatible with Perl 5.
21:51 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d9256124e1
21:52 [Coke] jeez, nine.
21:52 hankache are you HN and reddit accounts ready to upvote ?
21:52 timotimo Juerd: well, this is the complete suite of unicode tests
21:52 jnthn nine: I was tempted to mention Inline::Python too but that's just rubbing it in :P
21:52 flussence hankache: don't have either :D
21:52 Skarsnik hm, I should edit NC doc to mention c++ support somewhere
21:52 [Coke] does anyone else have last minute commits they are trying to sneak in? ;)
21:52 TimToady and it's not really as smooth an integration as ip5 yet
21:52 dalek rakudo/nom: 9ee1ff0 | coke++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
21:52 dalek rakudo/nom: Mention the scale of the test suite.
21:52 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9ee1ff0231
21:52 nine jnthn: I had it there! But the bullet point would have grown to 3 lines and that just felt like bragging :)
21:52 flussence [Coke]: did you figure out the install failure? /me is curious if it'll work here...
21:52 jnthn ;)
21:52 Woodi but if tests are primary deliverable then tests.tgz could be created and moved to the front form subscripts...
21:53 jnthn [Coke]: None from me :)
21:53 hankache the title of the link should be: Perl 6 Released
21:53 RabidGravy the thing about the tests is that although the number is lower than some might expect, because so much of rakudo is written in Perl6 the coverage is probably quite good
21:53 nine [Coke]: sorry, that was my commit for release day :)
21:53 [Coke] flussence: it was a local issue. I did a build. I had two windows open. I moved the build dir out of the way, re-cloned rakudo... I still had one shell where I was still in the ORIGINAL build dir of the same name. things got really confused.
21:54 timotimo hehehe
21:54 timotimo yeah, it's "interesting" that you can be in a folder and move it from somewhere else and still "be in that folder"
21:54 flussence [Coke]: well at least I was wrong about it being the same problem and the release will go ahead but... bah :(
21:56 gori joined #perl6
21:56 Juerd "Has clean, modern, syntax, rooted "
21:56 Juerd Second comma is wrong I think
21:56 ptc_p6 joined #perl6
21:57 timotimo well, we have "make clean", but we don't have "make modern" or "make syntax"
21:57 ptc_p6 joined #perl6
21:57 jnthn My English ain't good enough to say either way :)
21:57 dalek rakudo/nom: ec386e5 | coke++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
21:57 dalek rakudo/nom: fix grammar-o
21:57 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:57 dalek rakudo/nom: Juerd++
21:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ec386e5ff5
21:57 Juerd Thanks :)
21:58 dalek doc: 386ea0d | (Sylvain Colinet)++ | doc/Language/nativecall.pod:
21:58 dalek doc: Mention C++ support in NativeCall
21:58 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/386ea0d475
21:58 [Coke] thank you! I read that 3 times and missed it.
21:58 [Coke] ok. Pulling the trigger.
21:58 flussence hm, does github's renderer not understand footnotes in markdown or is that [^1] syntax not quite right...?
21:58 * flussence goes to rtfm
21:58 Skarsnik That not really a doc for it, but at least it mentionned x)
21:58 [Coke] I thought that was just stylistic, I didn't think it was real footntes.
21:59 flussence eh, it's readable. don't worry about it
21:59 [Coke] I'll give you a minute to check... but the release note doesn't have to be 100% in the tagged version. :)
21:59 [Coke] ok, pulling the trigger.
21:59 * TimToady ducks
21:59 woolfy woohoo
21:59 woolfy triggerhappy
21:59 raiph joined #perl6
21:59 stmuk . o O ( can i haz perlseco now?)
21:59 Woodi 22.59 here ;)
22:00 jnthn 23.59 ;)
22:00 * hankache Tequila!!
22:00 flussence I think I confused it with asciidoc or rst or something, didn't find anything. never mind :)
22:00 timotimo stmuk: will you merge that PR so people can see it on your linode host and bikeshed?
22:00 [ptc]_ joined #perl6
22:00 * sjn toasts with a wonderful glass of rum o/
22:00 stmuk sure
22:00 pjcj joined #perl6
22:01 timotimo <3
22:01 * timotimo has some "volvic"
22:01 * lizmat has some perlsecco
22:01 sjn also, woolfy++ for keep Facebook in the loop :)
22:01 * Skarsnik haz... nothing
22:01 * Skarsnik will write something on linuxfr.org tomorrow
22:01 * hankache has absynthe
22:02 * flussence got soaked in the rain earlier and has whatever's warm...
22:02 lizmat $ git describe
22:02 lizmat v6.c
22:02 * mst raises cider
22:02 lizmat :-)
22:02 * awwaiid does a little jig
22:02 [Coke] uploading tarballs.
22:02 stmuk timotimo: try now
22:02 nine Massive congratulations to all the people who contributed to us reaching this day!
22:02 jnthn \o/
22:02 lizmat whooooo   :-)
22:02 jnthn everyone++
22:02 timotimo cool! this time it didn't take ~5 minutes to give me the page
22:03 [Coke] Thanks everybody!
22:03 timotimo http://li1360-252.members.linode.com:5000/downloads/index.html - please help me bikeshed the box on the right
22:03 kjs Everyone++
22:03 AlexDaniel yeeehaaa
22:03 jnthn [Coke]++ for cutting the release :)
22:03 sjn everyone++ # massive kudos for the efforts!
22:03 [Coke] tarballs are up
22:03 Juerd Congratulations!!
22:03 lizmat everyone++ indeed !
22:03 woolfy I am so f**ing proud to be witness of this!  everybody++
22:03 [Coke] jnthn: thank you. I think I picked the easy bit!
22:03 flussence ????
22:03 profan_ woop!
22:03 nine Yeah special thanks to [Coke]++ for actually making the release :)
22:04 [Coke] will make an advent post of the release announcement so we can have a page to link to.
22:04 Theophane :)
22:04 gori left #perl6
22:04 colomon \o/
22:05 hankache congrats!!
22:05 * RabidGravy builds a new one just to get 2015.12
22:05 [ptc]_ congratulations everyone! Well done! Really stoked :-)
22:05 * lucasb feels happy
22:05 lizmat [ptc]_  Long time no see!  :-)
22:06 * mst re-runs rakudobrew build moar
22:06 nine Shamelessly ripping of my favourit Sci Fi show, I'd like to dedicate this release to all the people who predicted, that the Perl 6 project would fail. Community prevails :)
22:06 woolfy Congratulations coming in via Perl6 on Facebook!
22:06 dalek perl6.org: 16d70c5 | (Steve Mynott)++ | source/downloads/ (2 files):
22:06 dalek perl6.org: import downloads page
22:06 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/16d70c57b0
22:06 dalek perl6.org: c68e877 | (Steve Mynott)++ | source/downloads/.index.html.un~:
22:06 dalek perl6.org: rm mistake
22:06 woolfy [Coke]++
22:07 [ptc]_ lizmat: I've only had time to lurk over the last while. Really, really happy!
22:07 hankache timotimo reorder the links
22:07 dalek joined #perl6
22:07 timotimo hankache: what should go where?
22:07 stmuk *++
22:07 lizmat [ptc]_ so is everybody around here
22:07 timotimo **++
22:08 Juerd Who's going to 32c3, by the way? Can we have a small release celebration there? :)
22:08 timotimo how long until perl6.org sees stmuk's new changes?
22:08 * mst starts the countdown to getting annoyed enough with rakudobrew to patch it within an inch of its life
22:08 mst (this is not meant as a criticism, but it's a toolchain script and I'm me, so it's inevitably going to happen)
22:09 Theophane left #perl6
22:10 hankache timotimo 1-Perl 6 introductory slides 2-Perl 6 introduction 3- Learn Perl 6 in Y minutes 4 -Language tutorials
22:10 timotimo isn't that how i have it?
22:10 timotimo oh!
22:10 stmuk timotimo: I think I read somewhere its a 15m cron
22:10 stmuk if its running
22:11 [Coke] release email sent.
22:11 dalek perl6.org: 8dcab23 | timo++ | source/downloads/index.html:
22:11 dalek perl6.org: reorder the material links
22:11 dalek perl6.org:
22:11 dalek perl6.org: hankache++
22:11 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/8dcab23063
22:11 [Coke] added a few more perl6 lists.
22:11 [Coke] working on advent post...
22:11 timotimo Fri Dec 25 22:00:01 UTC 2015
22:12 * hankache rakudobrew buil moar
22:12 timotimo stmuk: you forgot to make the button on the front page link to the downloads/ section
22:12 * TimToady tweeted, after his long exile
22:13 hankache retweet
22:13 colomon TimToady++
22:13 dalek perl6.org: f8eb259 | timo++ | source/index.html:
22:13 dalek perl6.org: link to our new shiny downloads page from index
22:13 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/f8eb259bb2
22:14 [Coke] we've got some russian & chinese wordpress comments that someone who speaks needs to determine if we can approve 'em.
22:14 * sjn retweeted TimToady++
22:14 hahainternet just out of casual interest, does anyone know where the repl is handled in the source?
22:14 timotimo hahainternet: it's in src/Perl6iCompiler.nqp
22:14 stmuk timotimo: d'uh thanks I'm not really "fullstack"
22:14 hahainternet timotimo: rgr
22:15 hahainternet timotimo: as always, thx
22:15 * timotimo eagerly awaits the arrival of that cron job
22:15 timotimo aha!
22:15 timotimo there it is, the new downloads page
22:15 timotimo D'OH
22:15 autarch heh, doesn't seem quite right
22:15 timotimo takes a while to rsync
22:16 timotimo um...
22:16 lizmat the link appears to be wrong ?
22:16 timotimo source/archive/list-summaries/2003 ...
22:16 timotimo is that still needed?
22:16 lizmat http://perl6.org/downloads/ is empty ?
22:16 timotimo lizmat: a little bit of patience
22:16 stmuk works now
22:16 lizmat .oO( you doctor, me patient )
22:16 hankache where is the release announcment?
22:16 timotimo Processing File 'source/snippets/99-bottles.html'... Not syntax hilighting, Text::VimColor not found
22:16 timotimo interesting
22:17 timotimo lizmat: it exists now :)
22:17 btyler http://perl6.org/getting-started/ also might point to 'downloads'? will PR if so
22:17 btyler in the 'install a compiler' instruction
22:17 hankache timotimo++ stmuk++  download page
22:17 timotimo btyler: well, at least the panic-before-the-cronjob time is over :)
22:18 stmuk ++zoffix # likely future fixage :)
22:18 timotimo yes, it should be linked, btyler++
22:18 timotimo actually, i'll just do it myself
22:18 rurban joined #perl6
22:18 btyler ok
22:19 dalek perl6.org: f3929c4 | timo++ | source/getting-started/index.html:
22:19 dalek perl6.org: btyler++ spotted another link to rakudo.org/how-to-get
22:19 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/f3929c46b7
22:19 hankache This is Rakudo version 2015.12 built on MoarVM version 2015.12
22:19 hankache implementing Perl 6.c.
22:19 ggoebel9 Congratulations... Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
22:19 hankache yahooooooooooooo!
22:19 hankache Ladies and Gents Merry Christmas!
22:20 AlexDaniel yeah, sounds great
22:20 colomon Merry Christmas!
22:20 AlexDaniel .u christmas
22:20 yoleaux U+1F384 CHRISTMAS TREE [So] (????)
22:20 yoleaux U+1F385 FATHER CHRISTMAS [So] (????)
22:20 AlexDaniel oh there it is ????
22:21 timotimo "perl 6 free download now"
22:22 * colomon spectests
22:23 hankache is the release announcment up?
22:23 lizmat Files=1092, Tests=51399, 276 wallclock secs (13.47 usr  3.91 sys + 1705.89 cusr 152.76 csys = 1876.03 CPU)   # 2015.12/2015.12/6.c
22:23 timotimo now get ready for the storm of complaints :P
22:23 timotimo i'm about to fix some n
22:23 timotimo nativecall incompatibility in GTK::Simple
22:23 lizmat hankache: the primary announcement is on perl6-compiler mailing list
22:23 lizmat [Coke] is working on an advent blog post atm
22:23 timotimo this time it'll go on the davent blog, too
22:24 hankache oh i am not on the list
22:24 hankache can someone add me?
22:25 timotimo send a mail to perl6-compiler-subscribe@perl.org
22:26 TimToady [Coke]: are you putting the release notes up for Day 25?
22:26 tadzik so, it did happen
22:27 tadzik :}
22:27 RabidGravy you know a language hasn't really arrived until someone writes a mailling list manager in it
22:27 timotimo hey tadzik
22:27 [Coke] ok. someone want to preview this before I go live: https://perl6advent.wordpress.com/?p=4787&amp;preview=true
22:27 tadzik I'm happy to have a brick of mine in there somewhere :)
22:27 timotimo tadzik: you made rakudobrew and nine is very unhappy with it :)
22:27 timotimo so is mst, actualyl :D
22:27 [Coke] It's basically the release announcement with some minor html formatting improvements.
22:27 RabidGravy naughty step for tadzik
22:27 mst well, no, I'm just sliding down my gradual path to hating it because it's toolchain code
22:28 timotimo [Coke]: do we want to advertise the jvm version if it doesn't work terribly well?
22:28 mst "works well enough for me to use it long enough to hate it" should be considered a success
22:28 timotimo cool
22:28 tadzik it has not intended to be a public project :P
22:28 hankache tadzik++ now it is
22:29 tadzik I initially put it on github and said "I won't even accept bug reports for this, you're free to use it if you like it though"
22:29 mst tadzik: yeah, and DBIx::Class was supposed to be a research project
22:29 mst things escape.
22:29 tadzik and it kind of blew up
22:29 lizmat [Coke]: looks ok to me
22:29 tadzik I guess I'm not very good at growing them small projects of mine
22:29 [Coke] timotimo: ... that's fair. I'll remove it from the opening paragraph on the announcement.
22:30 [Coke] updated.
22:30 mst I think the only project of mine that hasn't escaped is my ex-vi fork
22:30 mst and I intentionally didn't put the source code to that one anywhere people could find it ;)
22:30 obra Congratulations, everyone!
22:30 lizmat obra o/
22:30 timotimo We
22:30 timotimo would also like to thank everyone who submitted bug reports or dropped in on
22:30 timotimo the
22:30 timotimo ^- surprising line breaks
22:30 timotimo [Coke]:
22:30 obra mst: I actually ran into some greybeards lamenting the lack of a true classic vi that builds on current operating systems.
22:31 hankache are you ready to trend the announcment on HN
22:31 mst obra: http://ex-vi.sf.net/ is Bill Joy's codebase and it totally builds on current systems
22:31 timotimo [Coke]: also, the document refers to files in the rakudo repository, which don't really resolve in the heads of the people reading it on the advent blog :)
22:31 virtualsue https://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/3y81oj/perl_60_is_now_live/?ref=share&amp;ref_source=link
22:31 obra mst: nice
22:32 devop joined #perl6
22:32 mst mine uses malloc instead of treating the heap as one giant C array
22:32 obra aw.
22:32 timotimo [Coke]: other than that i have no issues! :)
22:32 mst and has a couple tweaks and bugfixes
22:32 obra & back in a while
22:32 mst I was originally going to then turn it into an XS module
22:32 [Coke] timotimo: is it just docs/changelog & and docs/rel*
22:32 Skarsnik timotimo, the error on gtk::simple is something that can be fixed on nc, the 'old' code to find lib was still doing stuff when receiving a callable (like add .so) but I kind of decided that if you are doing your own stuff to find the lib by passing a sub to NC you have to do everything yourself
22:32 [Coke] ?
22:32 mst but then it would escape too :(
22:32 timotimo [Coke]: i think so!
22:32 ptc_p6 joined #perl6
22:33 timotimo mst: malloc treats the heap as one giant C array! :)
22:33 Phagus joined #perl6
22:33 Phagus Thanks Larry!
22:33 ptc_p6 joined #perl6
22:33 mst timotimo: but then things like ncurses work rather than your editor stopping understanding window resizes eventually
22:34 timotimo hehehe
22:34 [Coke] timotimo: updated.
22:34 telex joined #perl6
22:34 [Coke] linked to the files in the repo.
22:34 Skarsnik good night #perl6!
22:35 timotimo good night Skarsnik
22:35 [Coke] ... published.
22:35 lizmat [Coke]: on deeper reading, funny line endings at release; (why the ; there?), We and on
22:35 [Coke] https://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2015/12/25/christmas-is-here/
22:36 hankache lizmat he can still edit it
22:36 lizmat yup
22:36 timotimo lizmat: i reported these line endings. didn't coke fix them by now?
22:36 lizmat yeah, the ; is only strange thing left
22:36 lizmat but that was also in the announce
22:37 lizmat [Coke]: fwiw, I still did not get a perl6-compiler mail
22:37 idiosyncrat_ joined #perl6
22:37 timotimo OK
22:37 timotimo i did get that email
22:37 hankache https://news.ycombinator.com/newest upvote the link "Perl 6.0 Released"
22:37 hankache please :)
22:38 hankache Let's try to trend it
22:38 idiosyncrat_ Congratulations.
22:38 [Coke] updated the ; to a .
22:39 hankache [Coke] links are not working? or is it supposed to be a ref?
22:39 idiosyncrat_ 28 Decembers ago I downloaded and compiled Perl 1, on the very first day of its release.
22:39 virtualsue hankache: likewise my reddit post linked above
22:40 idiosyncrat_ I had bid a contract fixed price, and was betting that this new language by a guy named Wall, which did have a good rep for rn would be a short cut.
22:40 hankache virtualsue can you post a link on r/programming ?
22:40 hankache virtualsue more exposure
22:40 idiosyncrat_ I was taking a big financial risk, betting on Larry but it paid off.
22:41 [Coke] hankache: links not working where?
22:41 hankache idiosyncrat_++
22:41 virtualsue i've delegated that to stmuk
22:41 hankache [Coke] links showing [^1] etc.
22:41 idiosyncrat_ So, anyway, for those wondering whether to bet on Perl 6 as of its first day ...
22:42 [Coke] hankache: I didn't make the footnotes work in the HTML, no.
22:42 [Coke] I did make the links at the bottom that they refer to work, though.
22:42 idiosyncrat_ I bet $$ on it first time round and did very well.
22:43 hankache [Coke] ok then. Was just making sure it is not by mistake
22:43 idiosyncrat_ Congratulatons and good luck!
22:43 stmuk https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3y839f/perl_6_finally_released/
22:43 rhr joined #perl6
22:43 [Coke] Merry Christmas from дядо Коледа
22:45 Phagus So is anyone working on a souped-up Perl6 shell, a la IPython or Pry (For Ruby)?
22:45 Phagus REPL shell I mean.
22:45 timotimo Phagus: yup, an ipython compatible kernel is WIP
22:46 Phagus timotimo: Beautiful. Do you have a link to the project?
22:46 timotimo well, it's called "jupyter" now
22:46 Phagus Cool!
22:46 timotimo https://github.com/timo/iperl6kernel
22:46 * [Coke] enjoys a scotch & soda to celebrate.
22:47 * stmuk drinken Perlwein
22:47 Phagus I don't konw if it's quite a kernel I'm asking for. Basically, IPython has nice features like syntax highlighting, tab completion, etc. Is there something like this for Perl6?
22:47 timotimo merry christmas from τιμο παλσσεν
22:47 timotimo (more or less)
22:47 TimToady [Coke]: were we gonna put up a Day 25?
22:48 timotimo Phagus: if you install "Linenoise" you get tab completion
22:48 timotimo the jupyter kernel will have syntax highlighting, i think. it uses one of the JS editors we've written a highlighter for, i think. not 100% sure, though
22:49 virtualsue_ joined #perl6
22:49 grondilu congrats everyone and merry Xmas
22:49 hankache Ladies and gents please upvote the Perl posts on https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/new/ and https://news.ycombinator.com/newest
22:49 hankache **Perl 6 Posts
22:50 [ptc]_ joined #perl6
22:50 hankache we need to trend them
22:50 [Coke] TimToady: I put up the release announcement.
22:50 kjs_ joined #perl6
22:50 [Coke] Do you want a different one?
22:50 * [Coke] hurls https://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2015/12/25/christmas-is-here/ for TimToady
22:50 TimToady oh, was looking on planet by mistake
22:50 TimToady nm
22:50 TimToady thanks
22:51 TimToady or should I say THANKS!!!!!
22:51 hankache Thanks everyone
22:51 * hankache is happy
22:51 lizmat [Coke]: I just removed strange line ending from the contributor list
22:52 [Coke] lizmat: thank you. I wasn't going to reformat the contributor list because I was lazy!
22:52 [Coke] lizmat++
22:52 timotimo :)
22:52 * TimToady is glad we decided not to linebreak anyone's name; it looks more like real credits in a movie
22:52 [Coke] TimToady++ for pushing us to release this year.
22:52 TimToady I had faith in y'all
22:52 lizmat copy from list, import into vi, press shifft-j until it's one line, copy and paste back
22:52 TimToady and it was well-placed faith
22:53 timotimo lizmat: i think you can select multiple lines and then hit shift-j to merge all at once
22:53 timotimo so VggJ
22:53 hankache joined #perl6
22:53 lizmat keeping shift-j down is less typing :-)
22:53 timotimo hah
22:54 lizmat TimToady: if your name has a hyphen in it, it will I think
22:54 lizmat .u non-breaking
22:54 yoleaux U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE [Zs] ( )
22:54 yoleaux U+2011 NON-BREAKING HYPHEN [Pd] (‑)
22:54 TimToady yeah, didn't think of that
22:55 lizmat s:g/-/‑/
22:56 rurban1 joined #perl6
22:56 mst :%!perl -pe ...
22:56 lizmat 25 occurrences updated in list
22:56 grondilu I don't see the HN post anymore
22:56 lizmat updated blog
22:56 hankache grondilu https://news.ycombinator.com/newest
22:57 grondilu oh yeah forgot to sort by time
22:58 lichtkind__ set the german forum banner to p6 celebration
22:58 lichtkind__ article will come tomorrow
23:01 timotimo the wordpress page just switched its stats over to the next day
23:01 timotimo so it'll be easy-ish to see before/after release announcement stats
23:01 [Coke] ycombinator - you click on the up arrow to upvote and then you lose the arrow and can't see it?
23:01 [Coke] timotimo++
23:01 autarch I ended up in the thank you list twice somehow
23:02 autarch I'll fix it
23:02 timotimo autarch: you're our 2x contributor
23:02 lizmat I removed one earlier...
23:02 lizmat but not Dave :-)
23:02 lizmat forgot the name
23:03 TimToady also, it split Wendy on my screen
23:03 TimToady poor Wendy
23:03 [Coke] dammit, we had that list for a month to catch dupes early. :)
23:03 lizmat autarch: are you fixing now ?
23:03 lizmat or shall I (and woolfy's ?
23:03 autarch lizmat: yes
23:03 TimToady they've been busy with something else :)
23:03 [Coke] TimToady: she was probably my fault. ISTR adding her.
23:03 avuserow joined #perl6
23:04 timotimo Dave: liz, please open the perl6 advent calendar doors
23:04 lichtkind congrats all
23:04 autarch I uniquified the list in emacs - should be good
23:06 autarch I unsplit wendy's name
23:06 lizmat autarch++
23:06 mst uniquified is an excellent word.
23:06 timotimo m: say "uniquified".comb.sort.unique.join.say
23:06 camelia rakudo-moar ec386e: OUTPUT«definqu␤True␤»
23:07 timotimo unqifed
23:07 autarch hmm, it's splitting on chinese chars on my screen - not sure what could be done about that
23:07 [Coke] m: say "I love anagrams".comb.pick(*).join.say
23:07 camelia rakudo-moar ec386e: OUTPUT«a svam alrogeIn␤True␤»
23:07 timotimo add a non breaking no-width space between every two chinese characters? %)
23:07 lizmat m: say "uniquified".comb.sort.squish.join.say
23:07 camelia rakudo-moar ec386e: OUTPUT«definqu␤True␤»
23:08 TimToady lichtkind is split too
23:08 grondilu I look at the announce on https://www.reddit.com/r/perl/ and perlmonks.  Not sure how this is going to go.
23:08 [Coke] oh, I can't vote on ycombinator because I'm a n00b.
23:08 lizmat autarch: those are the ones I added, because I forgot about the non-breaking spaces
23:09 lichtkind TimToady congrats but no i had been unnotified running a second instance of my irc client
23:09 autarch are all the non-breaking spaces outside the name list intentional? there are tons of them
23:09 lizmat lizmat / BooK probably also have that
23:09 autarch I'm sure they're not - they're basically random
23:09 [Coke] I manually edited it in wordpress to remove newlines. those might have been put in as NBSP, I don't know.
23:09 ozmq joined #perl6
23:09 yqt joined #perl6
23:09 [Coke] ... I don't think you have to clean those up.
23:09 [Coke] but if you insist, I won't stop you.
23:10 ozmq everyone++
23:10 svetlana joined #perl6
23:10 autarch [Coke]: once I see it I can't unsee it ;)
23:10 El_Che \o/
23:10 [Coke] autarch++ lizmat++ cleanups.
23:11 kjs_ joined #perl6
23:11 autarch rather than non-breaking spaces I think we want a <nobr> tag around each name - otherwise it still splits on chinese characters
23:11 autarch I'll try that and see if it works
23:11 lizmat autarch: I've fixed them all
23:11 lizmat shall I edit ?
23:11 autarch lizmat: to add <nobr> ?
23:12 lizmat put non-breaking spaces in names that did not have them
23:13 autarch lizmat: I fixed that - it was just a couple
23:13 lizmat ok
23:13 lizmat autarch++
23:14 hahainternet TimToady: congrats, just saw the tweet
23:14 lizmat autarch: empty line missing between Zoffix Znet ... If you would like...
23:14 autarch lizmat: fixing that too
23:16 autarch haha, wordpress appears to be eating my <nobr> tags
23:16 autarch I fought wordpress and wordpress won
23:17 autarch apparently it's not standard html anyway
23:17 [Coke] "it's not going to be perfect, people. let it go"
23:17 mst wordpress: *nom*
23:18 TimToady but it doesn't boot yet!
23:18 [Coke] ... I'm not sure why that's in quotes. but it's close enough. :)
23:18 BooK 15 years and no-one wrote a decent CMS in Perl 6 yet? ;-P
23:18 autarch yeah, I'm done messing with - I'm not going to wrap every name with <span style="white-space:nowrap">
23:18 b2gills flussence: Markdown uses [text][name or number of link] .... [name or number of link][] ... [text](http://perl6.org "optional pop-up text")␤[name or number of link]: http://perl6.org "optional pop-up text"␤
23:19 AlexDaniel [Coke]: “The Perl 6 community” aww, no-break space please?
23:20 AlexDaniel because it got wrapped on my screen in a very non-pleasant way
23:20 AlexDaniel whoops, unpleasant is the right word
23:21 [Coke] my kids got me magic cards, fallout 4, and coffee for christmas. This is awesome!
23:21 [Coke] autarch: you can fix AlexDaniel's note there, :)
23:21 autarch I think I just did if I'm following what he's talking about - AlexDaniel, can you check?
23:22 mst autarch: that's what filtering the HTML through perl -pe is for
23:22 AlexDaniel autarch: nope, not yet
23:23 autarch AlexDaniel: where specifically?
23:23 AlexDaniel autarch: “This is the Christmas release of Rakudo Perl 6. This version of the compiler targets the v6.c “Christmas” specification of the Perl 6 language. The Perl 6 community has been working toward this release over the last 15 years. Together, we’ve built a language that:”
23:23 dalek perl6.org: 9d2868f | (Steve Mynott)++ | source/downloads/index.html:
23:23 dalek perl6.org: correct build-panda
23:23 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/9d2868f43c
23:23 stmuk oops
23:23 AlexDaniel autarch: basically everywhere whe you see “Perl 6”
23:23 lizmat Create micro blog post on http://blogs.perl.org linking to [Coke]'s advent post
23:23 autarch AlexDaniel: that's all wrapping normally from what I can see
23:24 AlexDaniel autarch: that is, at least twice in this paragraph
23:24 autarch AlexDaniel: oh, you want "Perl&nbsp;6" ?
23:24 AlexDaniel yes
23:24 [Coke] lizmat: You did or someone should? I can totally do that.
23:24 TimToady otherwise someone might think it's really Perl...
23:24 lizmat I just did that
23:24 [Coke] lizmat++ thanks.
23:24 lizmat http://blogs.perl.org/users/liz/2015/12/christmas-is-here.html
23:24 woolfy "Perl&nbsp;6&nbsp;community" maybe?
23:25 [Coke] just between perl & 6, I think.
23:25 AlexDaniel woolfy: that's not really necessary :)
23:25 TimToady it's mostly the widowed 6 that is an problem
23:25 autarch ok, I did Perl&nbsp;6 - further edits are on someone else ;)
23:25 woolfy ok ok ok
23:25 autarch I note that the non-breaking space chars just look like spaces in the WP editor and are super easy to break - which is an argument for actually using &nbsp;
23:26 timotimo stmuk: i thought rakudobrew has support for "build panda"
23:27 lichtkind vhugs lizmat
23:27 autarch timotimo: it does - that should be "build-panda"
23:27 stmuk timotimo: ah that's been fixed since I last typod I guess
23:27 stmuk I think both work now
23:27 AlexDaniel autarch: hmmm, still not fixed. Even after Ctrl+F5
23:28 timotimo autarch: no, i mean you can just type "rakudobrew build panda"
23:28 autarch timotimo: oh, I see
23:28 stmuk https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/ <=- only one place under ruby
23:28 autarch AlexDaniel: there's definitely a nbsp; in Perl 6 everywhere - dunno why it's not working
23:29 obra I like that the reddit post under the Perl 6 post is about Parrot. (but not our Parrot)
23:29 BenGoldberg_ . o O (Some noncompliant html displayer does not comprehend "non breaking", perhaps)
23:30 AlexDaniel autarch: oh, now it's there!
23:31 colomon joined #perl6
23:31 lichtkind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qoKorj-NGQ
23:32 lichtkind sorry
23:32 lichtkind wrong link
23:32 lichtkind http://www.heise.de/developer/artikel/Larry-Wall-gibt-den-Rakudo-Perl-6-Compiler-auf-MoarVM-fuer-den-produktiven-Einsatz-frei-3055947.html
23:32 woolfy https://wendyga.wordpress.com/2015/12/25/perl-6-0-0-aka-perl-6-c-is-released-this-christmas-so-lets-celebrate/
23:33 woolfy lichtkind++
23:34 * BenGoldberg_ clicks link anyway.  Very poignant music :)
23:35 * jnthn did a blog post too: https://6guts.wordpress.com/2015/12/26/reflecting-celebrating-and-looking-forward/ :)
23:36 avuserow congrats to everyone on the release! #perl6++
23:36 lichtkind thanks woolfy
23:36 lichtkind \whois woolfy
23:36 lichtkind ups :)
23:37 virtualsue_ joined #perl6
23:38 woolfy jnthn++
23:38 lucasb joined #perl6
23:38 * woolfy is me!
23:38 lucasb "Autoincrements on native ints are now faster than on Int
23:39 lucasb autoincrements?
23:39 lucasb this is from the changelog
23:39 timotimo yeah, auto as in self-, obviously %)
23:39 avuserow lucasb: `$i++` is autoincrement
23:41 ozmq joined #perl6
23:41 lichtkind jnthn++ of course
23:42 timotimo jnthn++, all the ++ forever ;)
23:42 lucasb ah, ok. I thought autoincrement was a database term, but I think preincrement would be more specific. thanks :)
23:42 gist_nb joined #perl6
23:42 timotimo well, not only preincrement is faster
23:42 timotimo postincrement is faster, too
23:43 Juerd Given that use imports lexically, would it be better, style-wise, to "use experimental" in a small block than at the top of a module?
23:43 timotimo jnthn: have all the rest you need :)
23:45 flussence nqp and rakudo ebuilds are done (the latter fails to install, but I don't have enough tuits for it today...)
23:46 BenGoldberg_ Juerd, Probably.  That way, you can limit your use of experimental features to that small fraction of your code, and when those features change or are removed, you only need to change what's in that block.
23:48 lichtkind woolfy are you the wendy i know?
23:49 Juerd BenGoldberg_: Thanks
23:49 lizmat lichtkind: she is
23:49 xpen joined #perl6
23:49 lichtkind my favorite infidel
23:50 jnthn Wish you all a wonderful rest-of-Christmas. :-) I'm off to hibernate.
23:50 * ZoffixWin has had passed out for a couple of hours
23:50 jnthn o/
23:50 ZoffixWin But now I'm back!
23:50 flussence night jnthn o/
23:50 timotimo yo ZoffixWin, we did some terrible "web design" while you were gone ;) ;)
23:51 TimToady o/ and a big thanks!
23:51 timotimo the perl6.org has a "download" button now
23:51 jnthn TimToady: It's been a pleasure. :-)
23:51 TimToady and a pressure :)
23:51 timotimo a nice in-between page for how-to-get-rakudo, IMO.
23:51 Juerd jnthn: Enjoy :)
23:51 jnthn That too ;)
23:51 lizmat good hibernating jnthn!
23:52 timotimo i'm glad to have been with y'all the last few years :)
23:52 firstdayonthejob joined #perl6
23:52 timotimo all of you taught me so much
23:52 jnthn Thanks! Really going, before I fall asleep on the keyboard :-)
23:52 ZoffixWin timotimo, does it? I'm not seeing it
23:52 AlexDaniel jnthn: ah, that's how you fix all these bugs…
23:53 Juerd ZoffixWin: s/button/navigation item/
23:53 ZoffixWin Ah sweet
23:53 ZoffixWin So we released?
23:53 Juerd Nah... that's all been a dream
23:53 lichtkind cheers jnthn, wonderful christmas
23:53 Juerd ZoffixWin: Yes, the release is out :)
23:53 timotimo Juerd: well, there's been a button on the front page, too. the bottom left
23:53 ZoffixWin Weeeeee
23:54 Juerd timotimo: Yes, exactly where I didn't look for it. I like that download is in the menu too now.
23:54 timotimo yeah
23:54 AlexDaniel otherwise I have no explanation for jnthn productivity. Either he does not sleep at all or he “falls asleep on the keyboard” in a special way :)
23:55 Juerd AlexDaniel: He sleeps between christmas and new year's eve, it seems :)
23:55 ZoffixWin Well, congratulations to all on the release!
23:55 timotimo hah
23:55 Juerd ZoffixWin: Congrats to you too :)
23:55 timotimo don't glorify trading well-needed/deserved sleep for "more work time" ;)
23:56 Juerd Sleep time is work time
23:57 Juerd Programmers who never sleep write horrible code... for about 48 hours, and then they pass away.
23:57 BenGoldberg_ ITYM pass out.
23:57 stmuk most of those 24 hr programmers aren't that productive .. there are diminishing returns
23:57 timotimo if you really "never sleep", which is possible to do, you can indeed pass away
23:58 BenGoldberg_ Sure, but not in a mere two days.
23:58 timotimo diminishing returns on top of the mid-term health consequences
23:58 Juerd BenGoldberg_: Only if pass out means die.
23:58 raiph joined #perl6
23:58 timotimo BenGoldberg_: maybe they start their 48h coding spree after an extended weekend of playing the newest vidya game without sleeping in between
23:58 BenGoldberg_ Pass out means fall unconcious
23:58 RabidGravy No but if you make a habit of it, you'll cark it quite  early
23:58 ZoffixWin lizmat, do you still need me to do anything with throttle.t stuff?
23:58 Juerd BenGoldberg_: I know, and that's what I had before I made it more dramatic by changing a word :)
23:59 lizmat ZoffixWin: no, that ship has sailed
23:59 stmuk some other programmers only pass out due to alcohol ;)
23:59 TEttinger sleep's useful for a number of things including digesting food.
23:59 ZoffixWin k :)
23:59 RabidGravy stmuk, AND THEY'RE THE BEST!
23:59 Juerd TEttinger: Yeah, it's a really nice way to sort integers too :)
23:59 timotimo TEttinger: maybe i have a big belly because i don't sleep enough! so all the undigested food just gets stored there :P
23:59 timotimo Juerd: sleep sort for your intestines? %)
23:59 TEttinger ha

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