Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-01-31

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:28 BenGoldberg m: my $foo = 42; say ++$foo xx 3;
00:28 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(43 44 45)␤»
00:28 BenGoldberg m: my $foo = 42; say $foo++ xx 3;
00:28 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(42 43 44)␤»
00:29 woolfy left #perl6
00:30 AlexDaniel BenGoldberg: didn't expect it to work
00:31 timotimo https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35027544/why-are-inline-if-statements-an-average-of-at-least-one-third-slower-than-other/35108936#35108936
00:32 AlexDaniel :)
00:35 skids Maybe that answer could be committed to perl6/user-experience.
00:40 timotimo oh, damn, maybe i've made a "little" mistake
00:41 timotimo i might have left in the "$word.ends-with('rl') && ..."
00:41 timotimo which dramatically speeds up things, too
00:42 skids m: my $f = "."; say do { $f ~= "." } X~ 1,2,3; my $foo = 42; say do { $foo++ } X~ 1,2,3
00:42 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(..1 ..2 ..3)␤(421 422 423)␤»
00:42 skids Good.
00:43 * skids wonders why xx does that.
00:44 skids m: my $f = "."; say do { $f ~= "." } xx 3
00:44 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(.... .... ....)␤»
00:44 timotimo it creates a list of $f three times
00:44 skids m: my $foo = 42; say do { $foo++ } xx 3
00:44 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(42 43 44)␤»
00:44 timotimo m: my $f = "."; say do { ($f ~= ".")<> } xx 3
00:44 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(.. ... ....)␤»
00:44 timotimo postfix <> deconts for you
00:45 timotimo yeah, my answer on SO was wrong, it's not 10x
01:02 timotimo composed a new answer
01:03 timotimo i hope it isn't just too rambly
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01:42 MadcapJake what does the associative indexing error mean?
01:42 xpen joined #perl6
01:46 AlexDaniel MadcapJake: which one exactly?
01:46 MadcapJake "Type Str does not support associative indexing."
01:46 gfldex m: qq { $foo<html-tag> }
01:46 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/fHvxTH46LC␤Variable '$foo' is not declared␤at /tmp/fHvxTH46LC:1␤------> 3qq { 7⏏5$foo<html-tag> }␤»
01:47 gfldex m: my $foo; qq { $foo<html-tag> }
01:47 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/GbkLA0Kq5z:␤Useless use of " $foo<html-tag> " in expression " $foo<html-tag> " in sink context (line 1)␤Use of uninitialized value $v of type Any in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things,…»
01:47 gfldex m: my $foo; dd qq { $foo<html-tag> }
01:47 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value $v of type Any in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed.  in block <unit> at /tmp/fgluhjeP_Z line 1␤"  "␤»
01:47 gfldex m: my $foo = "abc"; dd qq { $foo<html-tag> }
01:47 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Type Str does not support associative indexing.␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/5DsSOz4SMF line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/5DsSOz4SMF line 1␤␤»
01:47 gfldex MadcapJake: this one? ^^^
01:48 MadcapJake yeah but what's dd? I'm not using that
01:48 gfldex doesn't matter, you got a quote problem
01:48 gfldex m: my $foo = "abc"; dd Q:c { {$foo}<html-tag> }
01:48 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«" \{\$foo}<html-tag> "␤»
01:48 gfldex if found that works best when dealing with xml/html
01:49 MadcapJake return Template::Mustache.render(slurp('./views/result.hbs'), { :$community, :message("Success! You were already invited.<br>Visit the <a href=\"https://$slack-url\">$community</a> Slack.") }, |%templates);
01:50 MadcapJake THat's the line causing the error
01:50 gfldex $community</a> <-- culprit
01:50 MadcapJake ahhhhh
01:51 MadcapJake i get it now, it thinks that's a <> postcircumfix
01:51 gfldex indeed
01:51 MadcapJake gfldex: thanks!
01:54 MadcapJake this is almost done!
01:54 MadcapJake moritz: any chance I could host this on hack.p6c.org?  It's an invite site for Perl6 slack (written in Perl 6)
01:59 Fleurety joined #perl6
02:01 AlexDaniel interestingly I don't see any way to disable “$var<foo>” behavior
02:01 AlexDaniel m: my $x = ‘test’; say Q:s‘$x<b>’ # still we have a problem
02:01 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Type Str does not support associative indexing.␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/EZdXuHFoO9 line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/EZdXuHFoO9 line 1␤␤»
02:01 AlexDaniel so I guess you have to use {}
02:02 gfldex AlexDaniel: there is a RT for that. I can find it if you need that.
02:02 AlexDaniel gfldex: out of curiosity – maybe. But other than that I don't really need it :)
02:03 AlexDaniel m: my $x = ‘test’; say “{$x}<b>” # after all, this is not too bad
02:03 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«test<b>␤»
02:04 gfldex AlexDaniel: https://rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=127226
02:05 AlexDaniel ah that one. But it's a little bit different
02:05 AlexDaniel or so it seems
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02:12 dalek doc: 4b19544 | LLFourn++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod:
02:12 dalek doc: s/won't-work/wont-work/
02:12 dalek doc:
02:12 dalek doc: and a typo
02:12 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4b1954455c
02:13 MadcapJake how do you access environment variables again? I can't seem to recall or find it
02:15 AlexDaniel MadcapJake: %*ENV<foo> ?
02:15 MadcapJake yeah, thanks
02:16 MadcapJake suprised that's not in the language/variables doc page
02:17 AlexDaniel you can kinda guess it :)
02:17 revhippie m: sub won't-work { say "but does" }; won't-work();
02:17 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«but does␤»
02:17 llfourn REALLY?
02:17 yoleaux 30 Jan 2016 08:51Z <nine> llfourn: thanks for working on the require/import stuff :)
02:17 AlexDaniel it has to be a hash, * is there because it's kinda global, and ENV is kinda obvious :)
02:18 revhippie llfourn: ' has the same rules as - in identifiers
02:18 llfourn revhippie: right! well I guess I will fix that...
02:19 llfourn I actually did try that but it didn't work for me hrmph
02:19 MadcapJake AlexDaniel: yeah i couldn't remember if ENV was a subhash of some other dynamic (especially because it wasn't listed)
02:19 llfourn thanks!
02:19 jme_ joined #perl6
02:20 MadcapJake just moving the token to an ENV var so I can post this to github, then I'll start by at least hosting in on heroku, anyone done a heroku with perl 6 before?
02:21 revhippie llfourn: you're welcome!
02:22 AlexDaniel m: my \ꞌ'ꞌ'ꞌ = 42; say ꞌ'ꞌ'ꞌ
02:22 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«42␤»
02:22 dalek doc: 67a4e12 | LLFourn++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod:
02:22 dalek doc: s/wont-work/won't-work/
02:22 dalek doc:
02:22 dalek doc: I had no idea that that worked. Excuse me.
02:22 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/67a4e1235f
02:26 p_p_r joined #perl6
02:27 dalek doc: 1f83b6c | raiph++ | doc/Language/variables.pod:
02:27 dalek doc: Add %*ENV
02:27 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1f83b6c608
02:28 AlexDaniel MadcapJake: interestingly ENV appears in so many places
02:28 AlexDaniel e.g. http://doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-perlvar
02:28 AlexDaniel oh wow, raiph++
02:28 MadcapJake oh, i've never even looked at the 5to6 stuff (never programmed in Perl 5)
02:28 MadcapJake raiph++
02:28 AlexDaniel MadcapJake: okay, what about this? http://doc.perl6.org/type/Hash
02:28 AlexDaniel :)
02:29 AlexDaniel .u ꞌ
02:29 yoleaux U+A78C LATIN SMALL LETTER SALTILLO [Ll] (ꞌ)
02:29 Juerd One of these days I'm going to suggest an overhaul to the way those documents are formatted. But first I need to think of how. :)
02:29 Juerd I'm really annoyed by the insanely long pages.
02:30 MadcapJake nice! That reminds me, I wish there was a link at the top of each type to the general type section,  it's annoying to have to scroll through the list of methods or click the first entry and scroll back up. is this possible to add?
02:30 Juerd But at the same time, I like scrolling much better than hidden stuff or lazy loading.
02:30 MadcapJake Juerd: is that what you were talking about? ^
02:30 Juerd So it just has to take up less vertical space. Somehow.
02:30 AlexDaniel I don't mind these long pages. Long pages means I can ctrl+f without any problem
02:31 Juerd MadcapJake: My keyboard has a dedicated [Home] button
02:31 dalek doc: 22ea0e0 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/faq.pod:
02:31 dalek doc: faq string interpolation and html
02:31 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/22ea0e0e29
02:31 Juerd MadcapJake: I never find it problematic to scroll back to the top of any page.
02:31 MadcapJake no i don't mean the top of the page
02:31 AlexDaniel gfldex++
02:31 Juerd What do you mean then?
02:31 MadcapJake each type has a general section (like the one where you showed me has the env stuff in it)
02:31 MadcapJake but there is no way to move right to it
02:31 Juerd That wasn't me. I showed nothing to anyone :)
02:32 * AlexDaniel hides
02:32 Juerd Oh, that section
02:32 MadcapJake AlexDaniel did I meant :P
02:32 Juerd Yes, that should go before the TOC
02:32 Juerd Or maybe the TOC should just be next to the content instead of above it
02:32 Juerd I dunno
02:32 MadcapJake either that or have a link to it so that you can just get right to it.  currently the only routes are either scrolling through the TOC or clicking the first entry and scrolling back to the general section
02:33 abaugher joined #perl6
02:33 MadcapJake often the general section has some of the most useful info (to me) and it's the most difficult to reach!
02:33 AlexDaniel or maybe the first entry in TOC should be “Description” or something
02:33 AlexDaniel so that you can click on it and go to that section immediately
02:33 MadcapJake AlexDaniel: yeah that's what I was thinkingt
02:34 MadcapJake Though personally, if it was possible to move the TOC to the side (for large screen widths) that would be ideal
02:34 Juerd http://juerd.nl/i/c09fb3f5ef6f536e2f7bfdd8151db36d.png
02:34 Juerd It's a start.
02:34 MadcapJake Juerd: it's gorgeous!
02:35 Juerd Anyhow, maybe I'll look into it a bit more later
02:35 Juerd Or by all means take this idea and make it beautiful while I'm asleep
02:35 Juerd But for now, good night #perl6!
02:35 MadcapJake Juerd: I'll see what I can do, what exactly did you do? just a css float:left?
02:35 llfourn o/
02:35 ugexe it should have a large hover over begging me to enter my email
02:35 Juerd MadcapJake: Yes. Which means it'll start ugly from where the TOC ends.
02:35 Juerd s/start/start to get/
02:36 MadcapJake Juerd: gotcha
02:36 Juerd Anyhow, good night :)
02:36 Juerd z &
02:36 MadcapJake nighty night!
02:36 AlexDaniel and you also had to make the font smaller :/
02:36 jme_ joined #perl6
02:40 MadcapJake here's a thought: http://postimg.org/image/wndyk9bch/
02:41 Juerd Okay, a few things then before I really go to bed
02:42 Juerd AlexDaniel: Only because I couldn't figure out how to add some css to <li>, to reduce the huge indents
02:42 Juerd MadcapJake: IMHO the text is already too wide for comfortable reading and the extra column helps reduce that issue as well.
02:45 AlexDaniel Juerd: I don't see much available space there :)
02:45 Juerd MadcapJake: And I don't think the out-of-bounds layout would fly on portrait oriented devices
02:45 Juerd So, afk! &
02:45 MadcapJake no you'd have to set it as @media: screen (or however that's written, not a css wizard xD )
02:45 * MadcapJake is gonna make a perl6-buildpack for heroku now
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02:59 jme_ did anyone know why Pod::Coverage keeps failing testing with `panda install Linenoise` ?
03:01 jme_ joined #perl6
03:06 llfourn jme_: I just ran panda --force install Linenoise and it worked
03:09 jme_ llfourn: sweet!
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03:18 Herby_ Evening, everyone!
03:18 Herby_ \o
03:18 skids o/
03:18 AlexDaniel * o/
03:21 revhippie i don't see those operators in the docs
03:35 noganex joined #perl6
03:38 AlexDaniel revhippie: at least * is spec-ed: https://design.perl6.org/S99.html#good_*
03:39 kid51_ joined #perl6
03:39 revhippie AlexDaniel: ha!
03:53 MadcapJake What are some common perl6 web deployment patterns? app.pl6 in the main source dir? a RUN script in the main source dir? a bin/file referenced in META6.json? Are these considered standard and are there others?
03:54 AlexDaniel MadcapJake: I don't think that there are any common patterns yet
03:55 MadcapJake bummer xD
03:57 llfourn MadcapJake: when you figure them out let us know :)
03:57 MadcapJake I really miss «"main": "lib/main"» and «"scripts": {"start": "node app.js"}» from nodejs land
03:58 llfourn I never used it. What does it do?
03:59 llfourn lets you do 'node start' or something without referring to the actual script?
03:59 MadcapJake a lot of node frameworks hook into the main value as a way to find the entry point in an application.  and the scripts hash was a list of shortcuts to scripts that you could run from the command line and start is a builtin one with special support
04:00 MadcapJake lets you do «npm run build; npm run test; npm start» to build, test and run
04:01 llfourn yeah sounds handy to me
04:01 MadcapJake also npm scripts had their own private environment that included everything in node_modules, so you didn't every have to fudge with your PATH
04:01 llfourn why would a node framework want to know the entrypoint out of interest?
04:02 llfourn (I get why npm and other cli tools would)
04:03 MadcapJake if you import a module, main was considered the primary entry point for including that module, so anything you want publicly available to users must be accessible from there
04:03 llfourn perhaps we can build it into panda or some other cli tool. panda start etc which looks in META6.json.
04:04 MadcapJake llfourn: I'd definitely be interested in that
04:04 llfourn I'd certainly prefer it to makefiles
04:05 Herby_ isn't there some big perl 6 talks going on this weekend?
04:05 Herby_ or a perl 6 meetup of some sort?
04:05 llfourn as I understand it FOSDEM is happening?
04:06 Herby_ hopefully some (most) of their talks find their way to youtube.  Some of the topics look pretty interesting: https://fosdem.org/2016/schedule/track/perl/
04:07 MadcapJake I hope so too
04:11 AlexDaniel there are also “official” recordings: https://video.fosdem.org/2015/
04:11 AlexDaniel in 2015 though half of them were lost
04:13 Herby_ sweet, i'll take a look
04:14 AlexDaniel half? No. Most of them were lost
04:14 MadcapJake how did that happen?
04:14 revhippie the bbc threw 'em all in a dumpster like they did with early doctor who :(
04:14 MadcapJake lol
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04:36 ugexe those are hooks, and i've been bugging about them for awhile myself
04:39 ugexe nothing is stopping you from putting scripts in your resources and accessing them via %?RESOURCE though
04:41 MadcapJake ugexe: can you elaborate on that resources pattern?
04:42 llfourn m: say %?RESOURCE
04:42 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/BloATlHoEF␤Variable '%?RESOURCE' is not declared␤at /tmp/BloATlHoEF:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5%?RESOURCE␤»
04:46 ugexe instead of "start" : "node app.js" or whatever, it could be like 'EVALFILE(%?RESOURCE<app.pl6>)'
04:48 MadcapJake but where would that line go?
04:48 ugexe whats it for? starting a server for tests?
04:48 MadcapJake npm places the scripts in package.json which is equivalent to META6.json and then they are accessible from the cli
04:49 MadcapJake scripts are for anything, building, running tests, deploying, they are just mini bash scripts (in npm/node land)
04:49 MadcapJake however they contain a separate node-specific environment
04:49 ugexe right. in s22 those are called hooks
04:50 MadcapJake hooks in s22 is like one sentence xD
04:50 ugexe there is not much on them, but their intentions would appear the same :)
04:50 ugexe stand alone scripts to be ru during various phases of the install process
04:51 ugexe usually they have access to some sort of ENV var to keep track of where in the life cycle they are at
04:51 ugexe and act accordingly
04:51 MadcapJake yeah that sounds "pretty" close, npm provides a bunch of special hooks for preinstall, postinstall, prerelease,postrelease, and a few more i cant remember
04:51 MadcapJake but it also allows you to write your own for doing other things with your workflow
04:52 revhippie left #perl6
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04:52 MadcapJake and you just do «npm run test» or «npm run version-bump» or «npm run upgrade-deps»
04:53 ugexe yeah. zef used to provide many of those. i would definately like to see something happen with them though
04:53 MadcapJake (and actually «npm run test» is equiv to «npm test» as it is a special script hook which gets run on install, release, etc
04:54 MadcapJake and also neat, they're composable, so write a few that have the bits and pieces of a build process and then compose into your main build script.
04:54 ugexe but, look under s22 under %?RESOURCE
04:55 ugexe "libraries" : { "libblah" : "build-time" }
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04:55 ugexe if the s22 spec was used then that would work nicely with those little commands... s/build-time/whatever cmd/
04:57 MadcapJake yeah that'd be neat, it seems that the perlish tradition is to use a Configure.pl file and make for a lot of this stuff, is that accurate?
04:57 ugexe it wouldnt have to be a library... maybe like "hooks" : { "preinstall-script.pl6" : preinstall }
04:57 MadcapJake yeah that'd be more up my alley :)
05:00 MadcapJake honestly since pl6 is powerful enough to forego the need for bash scripts, and thus they can be lengthier, i'd say providing a series of hardcoded hooks would be all that is needed: pre-install, post-install, pre-run, run, post-run, server, watch, pre-build, build, post-build, pre-test, test, post-test
05:01 MadcapJake but then you'd need to provide a cli interface, some way to do «panda server» or «perl6 test» or «perl6 build», etc.
05:01 ugexe that works too, but the thing is those are only used by the installer
05:02 MadcapJake well that's my point, it would need to be more available to the user as a means to improving workflow
05:02 ugexe so the actual names may not be specced, and leaf nodes are meant to be arbitrary data for package managers
05:06 MadcapJake here's a good rundown of npm scripts http://blog.keithcirkel.co.uk/how-to-use-npm-as-a-build-tool/
05:06 MadcapJake i think honestly part of why they're useful is how npm/node handles dependencies and running js files
05:08 MadcapJake i really liked prepublish but does that really fit with perl6? well there is no equivalent to npm site yet, and packages in perl6 aren't available inside "perl6_modules" in your source dir, they're precompiled inside a hashed folder hidden away from the user.
05:10 MadcapJake preinstall/postinstall are neat, but node devs rely on those because there really isn't any true install process (npm just dumps a tagged git repo into either your source's node_modules or a global node_modules
05:10 ugexe zef used to work like this before the CU refactor (everyone kept using Build.pm) with hard coded script names that were run automatically
05:11 MadcapJake well that sounds cool! has anyone made a friendly api to all the CU stuff yet?
05:11 ugexe but you could do like you say and do like, cut a release version to github and auto increment your version
05:11 ugexe ive been proposing overhauling Distribution to serve just that very purpose
05:13 ugexe the s22 Distribution interfaces are what i would like (and spec'd %?RESOURCE) as they solve all of these problems
05:13 MadcapJake yeah that'd be really killer, an easy «zef publish minor» would be amazing.
05:15 ugexe in any case, i think Distribution will be updated soon to do some/all of this stuff
05:16 MadcapJake great, i'm looking forward to it!  I think that's the biggest sore spot right now and also it has the most potential to strengthen the ecosystem.
05:16 ugexe you can mention any ideas/thoughts here if you want them to be recorded: https://github.com/perl6/toolchain-bikeshed
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06:08 Herby_ when using "given...when" control, can you use <, as in less than?
06:08 ZoffixWin joined #perl6
06:08 Herby_ ZoffixWin!
06:08 Herby_ \o
06:09 ZoffixWin hi
06:09 Herby_ m: my $var = 42; given $var { when < 50 { say "its less than 50"; } }
06:09 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/TctdY34s2e␤Unable to parse expression in quote words; couldn't find final '>'␤        ␤at /tmp/TctdY34s2e:1␤------> 3 when < 50 { say "its less than 50"; } }7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤    …»
06:10 Herby_ m: my $var = 42; given $var { when Int { say "its less than 50"; } }
06:10 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«its less than 50␤»
06:10 llfourn Herby_: nah it's an infix
06:10 MadcapJake first attempt at a heroku buildpack *crosses fingers*
06:10 Herby_ m: my $var = 42; given $var { when $var < 50 { say "its less than 50"; } }
06:10 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«its less than 50␤»
06:10 Herby_ llfourn, thanks
06:10 MadcapJake so far so good, it's installing nqp xD
06:10 ZoffixWin m: say split(';', "a;b;c", 2, :all).perl
06:10 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«("a", "b;c").Seq␤»
06:11 ZoffixWin ^ that's not what the docs say the output should be :/
06:11 ZoffixWin ("a", ";", "b;c").list
06:11 ZoffixWin Missing ";"
06:11 llfourn m: .say for &split.candidates
06:11 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«sub split ($pat, Cool $target, |c is raw) { #`(Sub|73808080) ... }␤»
06:12 llfourn so it should only split 2?
06:12 ZoffixWin it does split 2, but the delimiter is missing
06:12 ZoffixWin Which sucks, because it breaks this Perl 5 code I'm trying to port :/
06:12 llfourn m: say split(';', "a;b;c", 1, :all).perl
06:12 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«("a;b;c",)␤»
06:13 llfourn isn't that splitting 0?
06:13 ZoffixWin The "1" is the "LIMIT"
06:13 MadcapJake it leaves anything in the $limit's last element as a the rest of the text
06:13 llfourn oh.
06:14 llfourn so it's :all that isn't working when you put a limit?
06:15 ZoffixWin Limit is irrelevant
06:16 MadcapJake yeah all is definitely not working there, limit is strange though as you'd think 2 would mean you'd get two split out elements, right? or is that just me? xD
06:17 llfourn MadcapJake: not just you :\
06:18 MadcapJake yeah, the way it's phrased it sounds like limit would mean "the limit of the number of split out elements" not "the limit of elems of the returned seq"
06:18 adu joined #perl6
06:18 ZoffixWin wtf is a "split out element"?
06:18 llfourn something that was matched as a delim
06:19 MadcapJake lol as in, split is splitting into elems, so if you specify a limit of 2, it means two elems should be "split away" from the core string
06:19 Fleurety joined #perl6
06:19 llfourn so limit => 1, would match and split on one ';'
06:19 adu llfourn: are you talking about math?
06:19 llfourn adu: no :)
06:19 ZoffixWin No, that's not at all what it means. You're splitting ON delimiters and you're asking for at most LIMIT elements.
06:20 llfourn ZoffixWin: it seems not :)
06:20 ZoffixWin llfourn, seems not what?
06:21 llfourn ZoffixWin: it seems that "that's not at all what it means" as you said
06:21 adu limit(f(x), x=1) # SageMath
06:21 adu Limit[F[x], x -> 1] # Mathematica
06:21 adu what's the Perl6 version?
06:21 ZoffixWin adu, we're not talking about those limits
06:22 ZoffixWin I'm not seeing :all being used in Str.pm at all
06:23 llfourn maybe it's NYI?
06:24 llfourn m: .say for &split.candidates # it's only accepted to the sub because of the capture
06:24 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«sub split ($pat, Cool $target, |c is raw) { #`(Sub|65256368) ... }␤»
06:24 ZoffixWin m: .say for "foo".split.candidates
06:24 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Cannot call split(Str: ); none of these signatures match:␤    (Cool $: Regex:D $pat, $limit = { ... };; :$all, *%_)␤    (Cool $: Cool:D $pat, $limit = { ... };; :$all, *%_)␤    (Str:D $: Regex:D $pat, $parts = { ... };; :$v is copy, :$k, :$kv, :$p, :…»
06:25 ZoffixWin m: .say for "foo".split(/./, :all).candidates
06:25 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Method 'candidates' not found for invocant of class 'List'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/GAbT5t1biH line 1␤␤»
06:25 llfourn ZoffixWin: .can?
06:25 ZoffixWin m: .say for "foo".can('split').candidates
06:25 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Method 'candidates' not found for invocant of class 'List'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/rx1imuglT9 line 1␤␤»
06:25 ZoffixWin m: .say for "foo".can('split')[0].candidates
06:25 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«split␤split␤split␤split␤split␤split␤»
06:25 ZoffixWin heh
06:25 llfourn .can already gives you candidates
06:26 llfourn m: .say for "foo".can('split')
06:26 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«split␤split␤split␤»
06:26 llfourn m: .gist.say for "foo".can('split')
06:26 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«split␤split␤split␤»
06:26 llfourn m: .perl.say for "foo".can('split')
06:26 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«method split (Mu $: | is raw) { #`(Method|71404376) ... }␤method split (Mu $: | is raw) { #`(Method|71406352) ... }␤method split (Mu $: | is raw) { #`(Method|71406504) ... }␤»
06:26 ZoffixWin Well, search in Rakudo source shows only Str implements it and it doesn't use :all
06:26 llfourn where did you find a mention of :all?
06:27 ZoffixWin <ZoffixWin> ^ that's not what the docs say the output should be :/
06:27 ZoffixWin http://docs.perl6.org/routine/split
06:28 llfourn sounds like it was removed
06:28 ZoffixWin m: say 'Life, the Universe, and Everything'.WHY
06:28 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«42␤»
06:28 MadcapJake lol
06:28 ugexe i know its purpose was being debated and changed before xmas
06:29 ZoffixWin Ugh, ugexe, you're right: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dee63c3de536ada407e4e541c5e2fad60e3c4cc9
06:29 * MadcapJake may have a working heroku-based bailador-built website *crosses fingers and toes*
06:29 llfourn I think it chaged to :v
06:30 llfourn oh too late :o
06:30 ZoffixWin m: say split ';', "a;b;c", :v
06:30 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(a ; b ; c)␤»
06:30 MadcapJake which looks like pacman eating "all" the delimiters
06:30 ZoffixWin m: say split ';', "a;b;c"
06:30 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(a b c)␤»
06:30 ZoffixWin m: say split /',' (';')/, "a,;b,;c", :v
06:30 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(a 「,;」␤ 0 => 「;」 b 「,;」␤ 0 => 「;」 c)␤»
06:31 MadcapJake heroku free tier is a lot faster at building rakudo than my rig :(
06:31 ZoffixWin Still not like Perl 5 :/
06:31 llfourn to me it makes sense to formalize what is and isn't accepted in &split
06:35 ZoffixWin m: my $i = 2; my @foo = ^10; say @foo[* - $i];
06:35 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«8␤»
06:35 ZoffixWin m: my $i = -2; my @foo = ^10; say @foo[* - $i];
06:35 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
06:35 ZoffixWin :/ any way to have an $i that could be either positive or negative?
06:35 ZoffixWin Man translating Perl 5 into Perl 6 is annoying as hell :|
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06:37 M-Illandan Oh huh... I can't build rakudo on git HEAD over some unrecognised version specifier. Has anyone else seen this before?
06:37 M-Illandan Unrecognized revision specifier '2016.01-RC1'
06:38 ugexe heh
06:38 skids m: my $i = -2; my @foo = ^10; say @foo[$i % *];
06:38 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«8␤»
06:39 skids m: my $i = 2; my @foo = ^10; say @foo[$i % *];
06:39 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«2␤»
06:39 ZoffixWin huh
06:39 skids As long as you do not mind
06:39 skids m: my $i = -12; my @foo = ^10; say @foo[$i % *];
06:39 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«8␤»
06:39 llfourn that is clever
06:40 ZoffixWin Yeah, skids++
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06:40 ugexe M-Illandan: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/699
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06:56 MadcapJake i've no idea if i'm doing heroku's buildpacks right :P https://github.com/MadcapJake/herokudo/blob/master/bin/compile
06:57 MadcapJake i'm making one last effort with a `.profile.d/perl6.sh` file, then if that doesn't work, it's time for bed!
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07:30 M-Illandan ugexe (IRC): thanks
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07:59 * lizmat waves from the Perl DevRoom at FOSDEM
08:05 moritz m: 'abc'.split(/b/, :k)
08:05 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: ( no output )
08:05 moritz m: say 'abc'.split(/b/, :k)
08:05 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(a 0 c)␤»
08:05 * moritz waves back to lizmat and the devroom
08:06 moritz m: say 'abc'.split(/b/)
08:06 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(a c)␤»
08:06 moritz m: say 'abc'.split(/b/, :v)
08:06 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(a 「b」 c)␤»
08:06 moritz m: say 'abc'.split(/b/, :kv)
08:06 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(a 0 「b」 c)␤»
08:06 moritz m: say 'abc'.split(/b/, :p)
08:06 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(a 0 => 「b」 c)␤»
08:08 lizmat moritz: you have a question about those ?
08:08 moritz m: say 'abc'.split(/b/, :p, :k)
08:08 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Unsupported combination of adverbs (k p) passed to split on Str␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Ezx2_U4qct line 1␤␤»
08:08 moritz lizmat: no; just getting a feel for what they do
08:08 lizmat okidoki
08:10 moritz m: say 'abc'.split(/b/, :kv).elems
08:10 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«4␤»
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08:25 lizmat m: m: say 'abc'.split("b", :kv)   # faster
08:25 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(a 0 b c)␤»
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08:34 hankache .seen FROGGS
08:34 yoleaux I saw FROGGS 29 Jan 2016 18:28Z in #perl6: <FROGGS> [Tux]: META6.json though
08:36 hankache anyone using perl6 on windows ?
08:36 lizmat jnthn is, afaik
08:36 hankache hiya lizmat
08:37 lizmat hankache o/
08:37 hankache i installed the RC1 MSI for windows to test it
08:38 hankache panda is not working correctly. I wanted to make sure that it is not an issue on my machine before reporting it to FROGGS
08:39 lizmat hankache : sorry, can't check that myself
08:40 hankache anytime i try to install a module if always fails at the test stage with the same error messages
08:41 hankache no such file in sub run-and-gather-output
08:42 lizmat that doesn't ring a bell with me...  but that doesn't mean much  :-)
08:44 hankache no worries
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09:09 * nine waves from 2 rwos behind lizmat
09:10 El_Che_ :)
09:10 El_Che_ you just came in before I closed the room
09:11 nine And now I know your nickname on IRC :)
09:13 El_Che hehe
09:13 El_Che I tend to use a different nick on each platform
09:13 El_Che :)
09:16 El_Che nine: I leart yeasterday the pronunciation of your name/nick. I prnounced as a number in my head
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09:37 nine El_Che: most people do. That's why I used to go by "niner" in English speaking circles.
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09:51 nine .tell hankache panda requires a "prove.bat" command to be available for testing. This is a Perl 5 script and I guess strawberry perl is the easiest way to get it.
09:51 yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to hankache.
09:56 dalek doc: 72520a8 | moritz++ | doc/Type/Cool.pod:
09:56 dalek doc: split(:all) is gone, replaced by :v. Closes #375
09:56 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/72520a8673
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10:14 [Tux] $ panda install CSV::Parser
10:14 [Tux] ==> Fetching CSV::Parser
10:14 [Tux] Must specify something as a path: did you mean '.' for the current directory?
10:14 [Tux] in method update-from-meta-file at /pro/3gl/CPAN/rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/sources/690D6834E4624C39C1A50928F4F02428C9A781E4 line 23
10:14 [Tux] test            22.837
10:14 [Tux] test-t          12.294
10:29 lizmat m: subset Foo where *.chars < 7; use MONKEY-TYPING;  augment class Str { method Foo() { self.chars < 8 ?? self !! self.substr(0,7) } }; sub aa(Foo(Str) $a ) { dd $a }; aa "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"'   # example of a coercing subset Foo
10:29 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/LAp5DyBTOU␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/LAp5DyBTOU:1␤------> 3dd $a }; aa "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"7⏏5'   # example of a coercing subset Foo␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix …»
10:30 lizmat m: subset Foo where *.chars < 7; use MONKEY-TYPING;  augment class Str { method Foo() { self.chars < 8 ?? self !! self.substr(0,7) } }; sub aa(Foo(Str) $a ) { dd $a }; aa "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"   # example of a coercing subset Foo
10:30 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«"abcdefg"␤»
10:32 lizmat m: my $max = 42; subset Foo where * < $max;  my Foo $a = 17; dd $a; $max = 3; my Foo $b = 17; dd $b   # example of a subtype depending on a variable value
10:32 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Int $a = 17␤Type check failed in assignment to $b; expected Foo but got Int␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ccy5JME9WD line 1␤␤»
10:32 lizmat (answers to questions that came up during Ovid's talk
10:32 lizmat )
10:33 El_Che eiro's quesiton
10:33 lizmat the latterm yes
10:33 lizmat *latter,
10:37 CIAvash .tell Herby_ Is this what you want? my $var = 42; given $var { when * < 50 { say "it's less than 50" } }
10:37 CIAvash
10:37 yoleaux CIAvash: I'll pass your message to Herby_.
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11:16 ely-se hey the FOSDEM streams actually work this year :D
11:17 ely-se not on the website though, but in VLC
11:31 llfourn ely-se: do you get audio>
11:31 ely-se yes but only if I stream with VLC
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11:32 ely-se not on the website
11:33 llfourn I don't seem to get audio in the perl room
11:33 llfourn (throuhg vlc)
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11:36 * llfourn watches Crust guy fiddle with mic in hopeful anticipation
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11:39 brrt \o #perl6
11:39 brrt anybody at FOSDEM today
11:39 brrt that I haven't seen yet?
11:39 llfourn brrt: are you there?
11:40 ely-se llfourn: maybe it's broken for Perl :P
11:40 ely-se I'm watching Go talks
11:40 brrt yeah, i'm in Jansson currently
11:41 brrt ely-se: wasn't the current go talk cancelled?
11:41 llfourn ely-se: yep, he's started talking and it aint workin
11:41 ely-se brrt: yeah but someone else jumped in
11:41 brrt cool, what about
11:41 ely-se JSON encoding and code generation
11:42 llfourn hmm Go doesn't work for me either
11:43 brrt hmmm
11:43 brrt Jansson is a talk from facebook? not my cup of tea
11:46 llfourn ah the audio on the .flv works
11:47 llfourn even in the Perl room!
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11:59 llfourn I think the Crust guy just said he used EVAL 'use lib ...' to get around no use lib in modules :S
11:59 lizmat llfourn: yeah, and needing to use use MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL
11:59 lizmat on top of that
11:59 llfourn that's a little scary!
12:00 llfourn lizmat: I didn't catch why it needs EVAL if you wanna ask that from me :D
12:00 llfourn lizmat: i mean use lib
12:01 RabidGravy I was looking at Crust last night for various reasons
12:01 llfourn lizmat: thanks!
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12:27 RabidGravy SPLITTERS!
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12:29 RabidGravy that old Sunday afternoon net-split
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12:36 nine I just submitted a pull request for Crust to get rid of the EVAL "use lib
12:36 RabidGravy nine++
12:37 nine lizmat: Getopt::Tiny actually breaks on the removal of IO::ArgFiles. It's amazing how fast stuff gets used in the ecosystem.
12:37 Skarsnik joined #perl6
12:38 Skarsnik hello
12:38 * masak .oO( if I had known my stuff'd get *used*, I'd've never put it in the ecosystem )
12:39 lizmat but I reverted the IO::CatHandle stuff, didn't, I ?
12:39 ely-se joined #perl6
12:41 nine lizmat: yes, you did :) Just wanted to point out that our speculations about noone using IO::ArgFiles directly were wrong. Someone already found a use case... So no matter how hidden some API is, someone will use it. Soon.
12:42 El_Che I have met stuff on the ecosystem that doesn't work with christmas rakudobrewed rakudo. Eg.: https://github.com/retupmoca/P6-Net-SMTP
12:42 El_Che although the travis test pass, it does not work when you use it
12:42 M-matthew joined #perl6
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12:43 El_Che 6.c/d stuff will be part of the metacpan-like thing?
12:43 M-Illandan joined #perl6
12:43 RabidGravy that'll be bad tests then
12:43 lizmat El_Che: don't think so
12:44 llfourn_ nine: how does that method work with precomp?
12:44 llfourn_ will things in Crust require'd afterwards still be preocmped?
12:44 nine No, they won't. And I'd love to discuss this with Crust people.
12:45 llfourn_ nine: kk I thought so thanks!
12:45 llfourn_ nine: I would love to hear your solution
12:45 nine If I can find one :)
12:46 llfourn_ I was thinking you would just have to figure out all the things that need to be in inc and then spawn a new perl6 -I whatever
12:46 * jnthn only half paid attention to recent backlog, but didn't spot an explanation of the problem they were solving? :)
12:46 yoleaux 29 Jan 2016 19:45Z <RabidGravy> jnthn: next time you're looking at asynchronous stuff you may want to cast an eye over https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=127428 almost certainly unintended
12:46 yoleaux 30 Jan 2016 14:37Z <orbus> jnthn: okay - so if I create a Supply off a channel, and then I have two taps on that Supply, they'll compete over the values from the Channel?  That seems to be how it behaves now.  If so, I want to get that in the docs.  I'll either open a ticket or do a pr
12:47 llfourn_ jnthn: I think they are reading in a conf file or something at runtime which could include libs they need to add and things they need to load (or something similar)
12:47 lizmat jnthn: the problem is that in Plack / Crust, you have a config file that determines at runtime which modules should be loaded
12:48 lizmat e.g. "enable "ContentLength"
12:48 lizmat would load a ContentLength module, for adding Content-Length HTTP output header
12:49 nine And the "config" file is really just a Perl 6 script
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12:50 lizmat well, yeah, the "enable" is just an exported sub
12:50 llfourn mm I think they need to introduce a web app compile stage prior to re-running with a static @INC once all the paths are known
12:51 lizmat .oO( pre-compile the app file ? )
12:51 llfourn why not :)?
12:52 RabidGravy well if the model was slightly different, e.g. the app was a class that did a certain role then yeah
12:54 nine Well we are post-christmas, so we may as well try to figure out how to have precomp _and_ runtime repository chain changes.
12:54 nine Because it's really the same problem as the inability to use the precomp files generated at install time.
12:54 lizmat indeed
12:55 llfourn that would be lovely if it could be done!
12:55 nine That a Perl 6 PLACK may use more Perl 6 features for a nicer API is a separate issue :)
12:57 RabidGravy so, loading a module at runtime by name rather than path, is it possible right now?
12:58 nine sure
12:58 RabidGravy (without using EVAL)
12:58 nine That's what require is for
12:58 llfourn m: require Test;
12:58 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: ( no output )
12:58 nine Crust even does this correctly
12:58 RabidGravy no
12:58 RabidGravy m: require "Test"
12:58 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Could not find Test in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6/2015.12-230-g2e17820␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6␤    CompUnit::Repository::…»
12:58 RabidGravy hence without EVAL
12:58 llfourn m: require ::("Test")
12:58 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: ( no output )
12:59 nine m: my $module = "Test"; require ::($module);
12:59 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: ( no output )
12:59 llfourn m: require ::("Test") <&ok>; ok 1;
12:59 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/k6OKRJ6FZw:␤Useless use of constant string "Test" in sink context (lines 1, 1)␤ok 1 - ␤»
12:59 llfourn and that annoying warning will be gone once my PR is merged :D
13:00 nine llfourn: which PR is that?
13:00 llfourn nine: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/694
13:00 llfourn the one you thanked me for using .tell earler :)
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13:01 RabidGravy okay, what made me think that didn't work :-\
13:01 nine Ah, yes :) Hopefully I'll find enough sleep in the days after FOSDEM to properly think it through
13:01 RabidGravy everyone++
13:01 llfourn nine: thanks! take your time :)
13:01 M-eternaleye joined #perl6
13:01 nine RabidGravy: while loading a module at runtime is easy, accessing the symbols in that module is hard, because they will not be there at compile time.
13:02 El_Che I have 2 days of conference after fosdem: there is a configuration management camp in Ghent mon and tue
13:02 lizmat that's a real long weekend for you
13:03 El_Che someone has to hassle all the ruby and python people there :)
13:03 lizmat :-)
13:03 M-Illandan joined #perl6
13:04 RabidGravy nine, for my use-case right now, I don't need the symbols just the type and the methods thereof
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13:05 llfourn RabidGravy: if you put it in brackets require should return whatever package has the same name as the target module
13:05 llfourn m: say (require Test);
13:05 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(Test)␤»
13:05 RabidGravy which saves the additional type lookup
13:05 llfourn yup
13:07 llfourn another tip with require is that it runs every time you hit it (unlike need and use)
13:07 llfourn so if you only want it to run the first time
13:07 llfourn m: for ^1000 { state $ = (require Test) }
13:07 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: ( no output )
13:08 RabidGravy coolio, my actual use is rather niche,  I have a bunch of methods that differ only by two pieces of information: a class and a "path" where the information for that class can be found
13:08 gfldex m: for ^1000 { once (require Test) }
13:08 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: ( no output )
13:08 jnthn nine: One thought I had: the "only use the precomp store at the head of the chain" thing can be relaxed a little to "use the precomp store first encountered in the chain once skipping past things that have no modules"
13:09 jnthn nine: That'd mean that if a user-level repo has no installed modules, then we can use the system-wide installed precomps
13:09 llfourn gfldex: Thanks. That's my new feature of the day :)
13:09 RabidGravy so I figured a class trait that stashes the "path" and then a method trait that specifies the class by name, then the method is just load the class, get the "path" and so forth
13:10 RabidGravy so all the otherwise duplicated method bodies go away
13:10 llfourn where doe sit stash the path?
13:10 llfourn HOW?
13:10 llfourn does it*
13:11 RabidGravy yeah
13:11 llfourn RabidGravy: I did something which sounds similar to what you are saying https://github.com/LLFourn/p6-OO-Schema
13:11 llfourn (probably with different purposes)
13:12 llfourn in that you have like 'class lite' which has the same inheritence as the class but isn't loaded, but you can load it with a method
13:13 nine jnthn: oh yes, I've had that idea at some point. As long as we handle the case correctly when the process is actually going to install modules into the head repo.
13:14 RabidGravy llfourn, yeah, that's similar, what it's actually for is a CouchDB thing where you have _stats, _config and so forth all represented by a separate class
13:14 nine Unfortunately I think we'll need a little API change to make that possible
13:15 llfourn RabidGravy: ah I think I get you :)
13:20 M-eternaleye joined #perl6
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13:20 dalek ecosystem: 847f673 | (Sylvain Colinet)++ | META.list:
13:20 dalek ecosystem: Rename GPTrixie meta file
13:20 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/847f6734cf
13:23 El_Che brrt in the second row?
13:25 lizmat denk dat ie buiten is
13:25 lizmat sorry, "think he's outside"
13:26 El_Che have you seen him at fosdem?
13:26 El_Che I don't know his face
13:26 El_Che I found his linkedin pic, but it's 2d :)
13:27 lizmat he wears glasses now
13:27 El_Che ok, looking for a white guy with glasses in fosdem
13:27 El_Che that can't be difficult :)
13:28 nine El_Che: he's kinda young, too ;)
13:28 Skarsnik are fosdem talk streamed?
13:28 nine yes
13:29 El_Che this one seem to work fine
13:29 El_Che I heard on #perl
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13:37 Skarsnik hm, it does not work for me :(
13:38 llfourn Skarsnik: which bit?
13:38 Skarsnik fosdem stream x)
13:38 llfourn http://stream-a.fosdem.org:8080/fosdem+h2214cam.flv # open with vlc
13:39 nine Actually...we could even take it a step further. We may note be able to serialize the whole DependencySpecification right now and therefore we cannot run the dependency resolution without actually loading a module's source code.
13:39 nine However we can serialize the short name. And if none of the repositories ahead in the chain contains a module with the same short name, we can be sure that it will not contain a module matching a DependencySpecification at all.
13:39 Skarsnik thx llfourn !
13:39 eiro hello everyone. i just connected. thanks for the example lizmat! awesome
13:40 eiro (as always in perl6)
13:40 nine Therefore it can also not contain a newer version of said dependency and we're free to load the precompiled one from a repo down the chain.
13:41 Skarsnik damn the camera that does not show the board x)
13:41 llfourn mmm there is another stream for that
13:41 llfourn you will have to figure out how to open 2 vlcs
13:42 nine mplayer or ffplay?
13:43 Skarsnik I can open how many vlc I want x)
13:43 Skarsnik Just need to figure the url x)
13:44 llfourn http://stream-a.fosdem.org:8080/fosdem+h2214slides.flv
13:44 Skarsnik Ok thx :)
13:45 llfourn /Applications/VLC.app/Contents/MacOS/VLC # to open a second vlc on mac
13:47 RabidGravy works with mplayer too if you're of that persuasion
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13:57 llfourn nice talk that was brrt on #perl6?
13:57 lizmat yup
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14:09 lizmat brrt++   # nice presentation!
14:09 brrt thanks :-)
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14:18 hankache computer, messages
14:18 yoleaux 09:51Z <nine> hankache: panda requires a "prove.bat" command to be available for testing. This is a Perl 5 script and I guess strawberry perl is the easiest way to get it.
14:19 hankache .tell nine thanks dear
14:19 yoleaux hankache: I'll pass your message to nine.
14:21 hankache .tell nine but this means that in order for it to work every person on Windows needs Perl 5 installed. While this is no problem on *nix, i find it counter intuitive to tell people to install Perl 5 in order for it to work.
14:21 yoleaux hankache: I'll pass your message to nine.
14:24 nine hankache: we know, a fix is in the works by leont++
14:24 yoleaux 14:19Z <hankache> nine: thanks dear
14:24 yoleaux 14:21Z <hankache> nine: but this means that in order for it to work every person on Windows needs Perl 5 installed. While this is no problem on *nix, i find it counter intuitive to tell people to install Perl 5 in order for it to work.
14:26 pi4 joined #perl6
14:26 AlexDaniel separate streams for presentation and video! Great!
14:29 mscha joined #perl6
14:31 hankache nine: thanks
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14:49 dalek doc: 531bfd9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Cool.pod:
14:49 dalek doc: Document :skip-empty in .split
14:49 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/531bfd9501
14:50 dalek doc: 47c01e8 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Cool.pod:
14:50 dalek doc: Remove accidentally added garbage
14:50 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/47c01e8308
14:50 muraiki joined #perl6
14:50 ely-se what does "dalek" mean?
14:51 AlexDaniel m: my $x = 1; sub foo($bar = $x++) { say $bar }; foo; foo; foo
14:51 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
14:51 masak ely-se: it's just a bot that watches some of our repos.
14:51 ely-se yes, I know, but where does the name come from?
14:51 masak Dr Who, I guess
14:51 masak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek
14:51 ely-se oh wait it's those robots from Dr Who isn't it
14:51 lizmat exterminate!
14:51 ely-se right :)
14:52 masak EX TER MIN ATE
14:52 masak some people will most likely enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB7HF82y9CI
14:53 RabidGravy and we all go and hide behind the sofa when they appear
14:58 nine lizmat: :)
15:04 llfourn oh lizmat is up next
15:04 brrt joined #perl6
15:04 ely-se what happened to the Perl 6 to JS compiler?
15:04 llfourn ely-se: still a work in progress
15:04 nine it's in thecworks
15:05 moritz writing a compiler backend is slow work, especially if done by one person on the side
15:05 dustinm` joined #perl6
15:05 brrt go lizmat:-)
15:06 RabidGravy I'm ruined for POSIX regexes
15:06 brrt try emacs regexes
15:06 brrt :-P
15:06 * brrt is shutting up again due to presentation-starting
15:07 ely-se llfourn: oh ok :)
15:07 dalek ecosystem: 505ed52 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
15:07 dalek ecosystem: Text::CSV META.info -> META6.json
15:07 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/505ed52ed4
15:08 moritz vim regexes are also "fun"
15:08 moritz they come in at least three different flavours
15:12 leont joined #perl6
15:16 RabidGravy first thing I had forgotten was that back references start at \1 and \0 was the whole match
15:17 RabidGravy ( was doing for file in t/*; do NEW=`echo $file | sed -e 's/\([0-9]\)-/\10-/'`; echo "$file -> $NEW"; git mv $file $NEW; done )
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15:37 AlexDaniel mic! Miiic! :/
15:38 Skarsnik yes what happened to the mic :(
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15:52 CurtisOvidPoe p6: await(^20).map: { start { sleep.rand; .print } }
15:52 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Must specify a Promise or Channel to await on (got a Int)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile line 1␤␤»
15:52 CurtisOvidPoe What have I missed?
15:54 El_Che await expects a promise
15:54 ZoffixWin joined #perl6
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15:54 hankache m:  ^20.map: { await start { sleep.rand; .print } }
15:54 ZoffixWin Any way to make a sub operate on $_?
15:54 ZoffixWin m: sub foo {say $_::OUTER}; given "foobar" { foo }
15:54 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(timeout)Potential difficulties:␤    Precedence of ^ is looser than method call; please parenthesize␤    at /tmp/n8etCWQCP6:1␤    ------> 3^207⏏5.map: { await start { sleep.rand; .print␤WARNINGS for /tmp/n8etCWQCP6:␤Useless use of "^" in ex…»
15:54 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
15:55 hankache m:  (^20).map: { await start { sleep.rand; .print } }
15:55 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:55 hankache m:  ^3.map: { await start { sleep.rand; .print } }
15:56 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(timeout)Potential difficulties:␤    Precedence of ^ is looser than method call; please parenthesize␤    at /tmp/lYHt2e7FkV:1␤    ------> 3^37⏏5.map: { await start { sleep.rand; .print␤WARNINGS for /tmp/lYHt2e7FkV:␤Useless use of "^" in exp…»
15:56 hankache m:  (^3).map: { await start { sleep.rand; .print } }
15:56 ZoffixWin What are you doing?
15:56 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:57 llfourn what is sleep.rand
15:57 hankache see CurtisOvidPoe ^^
15:57 perl6newbee hi all
15:57 hankache i am trying to make his example work
15:57 llfourn m: say sleep.rand.^name
15:57 ZoffixWin hankache, sleep.rand sleeps forever and even if it returned it'd call .rand on Nil
15:57 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:57 llfourn m: say sleep.^name;
15:58 llfourn ah sleep just sleeps forever
15:58 hankache m:  (^3).map: { await start { sleep(3); .print } }
15:58 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:58 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«012»
15:58 CurtisOvidPoe joined #perl6
15:59 ZoffixWin p6: await ( ^20 .map: { start { sleep.rand; .print } } )
15:59 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 14064 bytes␤»
15:59 llfourn m:  ^20.map: { await start { sleep rand; .print } }
15:59 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Precedence of ^ is looser than method call; please parenthesize␤    at /tmp/DKAcTWX3SI:1␤    ------> 3^207⏏5.map: { await start { sleep rand; .print␤WARNINGS for /tmp/DKAcTWX3SI:␤Useless use of "^" in expression …»
15:59 ZoffixWin CurtisOvidPoe, perhaps you were looking for that ^?
15:59 hankache m:  (^20).map: { await start { sleep(1); .print } }
15:59 llfourn m:  (^20).map: { await start { sleep rand; .print } }
15:59 CurtisOvidPoe p6: await (^20).map: { start { sleep rand; .print } }
15:59 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«012345678910Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 14000 bytes␤»
15:59 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«012345678910Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 14256 bytes␤»
15:59 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 14312 bytes␤»
15:59 llfourn lol
16:00 hankache m:  (^5).map: { await start { sleep(1); .print } }
16:00 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«01234»
16:00 hankache CurtisOvidPoe (^5).map: { await start { sleep(1); .print } }
16:00 llfourn m:  await (^20).map: { start { sleep rand; .print } }
16:00 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 14312 bytes␤»
16:00 ZoffixWin hankache, that'll await each promise before proceeding to the next one
16:00 ZoffixWin May as well not use any Promises at all
16:01 llfourn m:  await (^10).map: { start { sleep rand; .print } }
16:01 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«2704165839»
16:01 * hankache gives up
16:01 llfourn m:  await (^15).map: { start { sleep rand; .print } }
16:01 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 14312 bytes␤»
16:01 ZoffixWin m: (^5).map: { await start { sleep(1) } }; say now - INIT now
16:01 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«5.0069193␤»
16:01 ZoffixWin m: await (^5).map: { start { sleep(1) } }; say now - INIT now
16:01 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«1.0054976␤»
16:02 ZoffixWin Pretty cool that 5 1-second sleeps on a 4-core box still complete in 1s :)
16:02 llfourn so camelia's memory limit is just super low?
16:02 ZoffixWin Yeah
16:02 hankache m: await (^5).map: { start { sleep(1); .print } }
16:02 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«01234»
16:03 hankache so this is the correct one ^^
16:03 hankache hi perl6newbee
16:03 ZoffixWin m: use NativeCall; sub system is native {}; say system 'ulimit'
16:03 llfourn well the rand one is coolor imo but yes
16:03 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Dakw169KOt␤Calling system(Str) will never work with declared signature ()␤at /tmp/Dakw169KOt:1␤------> 3ativeCall; sub system is native {}; say 7⏏5system 'ulimit'␤»
16:03 ZoffixWin m: use NativeCall; sub system(Str) is native {}; say system 'ulimit'
16:03 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«30720␤(Mu)␤»
16:04 ZoffixWin hankache, yup
16:04 ZoffixWin So... any idea for my thing? I want a sub that operates on $_
16:04 ZoffixWin m: sub foo {say OUTER::CALLER::{$_} }; given "foobar" { foo }
16:04 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value $_ of type Any in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed.  in sub foo at /tmp/QqsFXw2QCD line 1␤Nil␤»
16:05 llfourn ZoffixWin: why are you using OUTER::CALLER and not just CALLER?
16:05 hankache no idea
16:05 llfourn m: sub foo {say CALLER::{$_} }; given "foobar" { foo }
16:05 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value $_ of type Any in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed.  in sub foo at /tmp/aK7OioMIIC line 1␤Nil␤»
16:05 ZoffixWin llfourn, saw it in rakudo source. Neither works though
16:05 llfourn m: sub foo {say CALLERS::{$_} }; given "foobar" { foo }
16:05 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value $_ of type Any in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed.  in sub foo at /tmp/boeWVwDcMT line 1␤Nil␤»
16:05 llfourn m: sub foo {say CALLERS::<$_> }; given "foobar" { foo }
16:05 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«foobar␤»
16:06 llfourn m: sub foo {say CALLER::<$_> }; given "foobar" { foo }
16:06 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«foobar␤»
16:06 llfourn amidoinrite?
16:06 ZoffixWin Thanks
16:06 llfourn nw :D
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16:13 ZoffixWin hm
16:13 ZoffixWin m: sub foo {say CALLER::<$_> }; foo for @*ARGV
16:13 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(HANDLED) Dynamic variable @*ARGV not found␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/MQy6LQDHLH line 1␤␤»
16:13 ZoffixWin llfourn, ^ any idea for how to take care of that stuff?
16:14 moritz use @*ARGS instead?
16:14 ZoffixWin moritz, that's not the issue, the sub cases the failure to be handled.
16:14 ZoffixWin s/cases/causes/;
16:14 moritz oh
16:15 llfourn I don't even get it what's happening?
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16:15 ZoffixWin m: sub foo { CALLER::<$_> }; foo for @*ARGV; say "Weee";
16:15 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Weee␤»
16:15 ZoffixWin Here it's clearer.
16:15 llfourn oh
16:15 ZoffixWin m: sub foo { CALLER::<$_> }; foo for @*ARGVZOMFGGG; say "Weee";
16:15 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Weee␤»
16:15 moritz ZoffixWin: possibly something in sub DYNAMIC
16:15 llfourn m: .say for @*NOTEXIST;
16:15 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable @*NOTEXIST not found␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/CAGi6hGXzn line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/CAGi6hGXzn line 1␤␤»
16:16 llfourn m: say "wut" for @*NOTEXIST;
16:16 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«wut␤»
16:16 llfourn m: say .^name for @*NOTEXIST;
16:16 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Failure␤»
16:16 llfourn I see.
16:16 ZoffixWin m: say "wut" for @*NOTEXIST; say "Weee"
16:16 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«wut␤Weee␤»
16:17 ZoffixWin Methinks this is a bug.
16:17 llfourn it's definetly bugish
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16:17 llfourn imo a non-existent @* should just be empty
16:17 mr-foobar joined #perl6
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16:19 llfourn m: my @*a := 3; say @*a.WHAT # there is also this I noticed the other day
16:19 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
16:23 ZoffixWin m: say (0 .. 0xFFFF)».chr.join
16:23 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Error encoding UTF-8 string: could not encode codepoint 55296␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/oNTIkNNjyj line 1␤␤»
16:23 ZoffixWin :/
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16:25 ZoffixWin m: say sprintf '%x', 55296
16:25 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«d800␤»
16:25 ZoffixWin .u 0xd800
16:25 yoleaux No characters found
16:27 geekosaur hm. isn't that range reserved for surrogate pairs?
16:27 geekosaur unicode makes no promise that all codepoints are valid
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16:28 ZoffixWin k
16:30 geekosaur perl 6 shouldn't need surrogate pairs, and encountering a codepoint int hat range means something was incorrectly decoded at some point, so an exception is appropriate
16:31 geekosaur (they're a hack for utf16 to handle non-BMP codepoints)
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16:44 AlexDaniel m: $_ = 25; sub foo($x is rw) { $x++ }; foo($_); say $_
16:44 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«26␤»
16:45 AlexDaniel ZoffixWin: ↑ ??
16:45 ZoffixWin Hm?
16:46 AlexDaniel “So... any idea for my thing? I want a sub that operates on $_”
16:47 AlexDaniel ah
16:47 AlexDaniel ZoffixWin: you just don't want to pass it explicitly?
16:47 ZoffixWin Right
16:47 ZoffixWin CALLERS::<$_> works
16:47 AlexDaniel indeed
16:50 * geekosaur is not sure that implicit stuff like that is a great idea, tbh
16:50 vendethiel ^
16:50 vendethiel please don't..
16:50 * ZoffixWin is replicating a Perl 5 sub
16:50 geekosaur perl 5 did it a lot... but it's also part of why people decry spooky-action-at-a-distance in p5
16:50 vendethiel "let's try making different mistakes"
16:51 geekosaur making different mistakes can lead to you learning better ways to do things. making the same mistake over and over usually doesn't >.>
16:52 ZoffixWin Making different mistakes will make my port of Perl 5 code behave differently.
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17:21 ZoffixWin Is this a bug?
17:21 ZoffixWin m: say so '÷' ~~ /<[  \x[f7]  ]>/
17:21 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«True␤»
17:21 ZoffixWin m: say so '÷' ~~ /<[  \x[f7]  \x[34f]  ]>/
17:21 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«False␤»
17:21 ZoffixWin :/
17:22 ZoffixWin .u U+034F
17:22 yoleaux U+034F COMBINING GRAPHEME JOINER [Mn] (◌͏)
17:22 ZoffixWin Is the char class actually combining things :/
17:23 geekosaur ?
17:23 ZoffixWin ??
17:24 geekosaur I don;t quite understand what you're asking about
17:24 ZoffixWin Why is the match failing if I add another char into my character class
17:24 ZoffixWin I want to match a char that is either ÷ or ◌, but the character class fails.
17:25 ZoffixWin And fails only when the 34f follows the f7
17:25 ZoffixWin m: say so '÷' ~~ /<[  \x[34f] \x[f7]  ]>/
17:25 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«True␤»
17:25 ZoffixWin m: say so '÷' ~~ /<[  \x[f7]  \x[34f] ]>/
17:25 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«False␤»
17:26 ZoffixWin This works, but is 3 times slower :/
17:26 ZoffixWin m: say so  '÷' ~~ /[  \x[f7] | \x[34f]  ]/
17:26 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«True␤»
17:26 hankache if i have a string of 1000 characters, how can i split it into multiple lines? having each line hold 10 characters?
17:26 ZoffixWin hankache, .comb(10)
17:26 geekosaur oh, I see
17:26 ZoffixWin hankache, .comb(10).join: "\n" I suppose
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17:27 hankache thanks ZoffixWin will try it now
17:27 geekosaur that said, iirc u+034f is weird and I would not be surprised if it acts up
17:27 ZoffixWin Yeah, it's a "joiner", so I'm guessing it joins up with the division
17:27 ZoffixWin m: say "\x[f7]\x[34f]"
17:27 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«÷͏␤»
17:27 ZoffixWin :/
17:28 geekosaur it's not really a joiner
17:29 geekosaur that's the weird
17:29 geekosaur it's more a separator, in fact (it prevents a combining character from combining)
17:29 ZoffixWin ah
17:29 pdl m: say so "÷\x[34f]" ~~ /<[  \x[f7]  \x[34f] ]>/
17:29 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«True␤»
17:29 geekosaur so it's special cased, and I suspect it's the special case that's biting
17:30 pdl m: say so "÷\x[34f]" ~~ /^<[  \x[f7]  \x[34f] ]>$/
17:30 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«True␤»
17:30 geekosaur also possibly some places that incorrectly treat it as a combining char still need to be fixed...
17:38 araujo_ joined #perl6
17:39 ZoffixWin :S "chars requires a concrete string, but got null"
17:39 ZoffixWin Not even using .chars
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17:55 ZoffixWin Planned time: 20 minutes; Spent time so far: 2 hours
17:55 ZoffixWin Programming is hard :(
17:55 diakopter Planning is hard!
18:01 ZoffixWin .u U+2adc
18:01 yoleaux U+2ADC FORKING [Sm] (⫝̸)
18:01 ZoffixWin :o
18:02 geekosaur what's that saying about the first half of a project takes 90% of the time and the second half takes the other 90%? >.>
18:03 ZoffixWin heh
18:04 sevvie joined #perl6
18:07 MadcapJake ok so i totally don't understand how to do heroku buildpacks, so. much. bash.
18:08 MadcapJake i tried to make a rakudo buildpack, but failed
18:09 MadcapJake unfortunately any time rakudo moves locations, hard coded paths to moar fail
18:10 MadcapJake actually, now that i think about it more, i'm guessing i'd have to build nqp and moar separately
18:12 eyck joined #perl6
18:17 dalek ecosystem: f0e307a | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
18:17 dalek ecosystem: Add String::Quotemeta to ecosystem
18:17 dalek ecosystem:
18:17 dalek ecosystem: Implementation of Perl 5's quotemeta subroutine: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-String-Quotemeta
18:17 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/f0e307a295
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19:11 ely-se m: class C { has Str $.x; }; C.new(x => 'a').say; C.new(x => Nil).say;
19:11 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«C.new(x => "a")␤C.new(x => Str)␤»
19:13 ely-se m: class C { has Str:D $.x; }; C.new(x => 'a').say; C.new(x => Nil).say;
19:13 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Lt8_YiBrLq␤Variable definition of type Str:D requires an initializer␤at /tmp/Lt8_YiBrLq:1␤------> 3class C { has Str:D $.x7⏏5; }; C.new(x => 'a').say; C.new(x => Nil␤    expecting any of:␤      …»
19:13 ely-se :(
19:14 johan joined #perl6
19:23 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 9024448 | coke++ | log/ (10 files):
19:23 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
19:23 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/9024448362
19:23 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 293f395 | coke++ | log/ (8 files):
19:23 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
19:23 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/293f395f3e
19:23 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 5fcc6f3 | coke++ | log/ (2 files):
19:23 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
19:23 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/5fcc6f352b
19:23 dalek perl6-roast-data: cfc31df | coke++ | / (6 files):
19:23 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
19:23 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/cfc31dfb4a
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19:45 hankache class A {}; class B is A {}; class C is A {}; is there a way using the MOP to do something like: say A.children ? and the return value would be B,C
19:45 hankache ?
19:45 yqt joined #perl6
19:45 ugexe a blog post about implementing s22's Distribution interface: http://ugexe.com/perl6-distribution-thoughts-and-proposals/
19:47 damnlie joined #perl6
19:47 hankache ugexe++
19:49 b2gills joined #perl6
19:51 orbus joined #perl6
19:57 musiKk Is it possible to add '.' to the module search path by default?
19:58 ugexe add it to PERL6LIB env var maybe
19:59 MadcapJake moarvm's make doesn't respect the «--silent» flag
20:00 hankache m: class D { }; class C1 is D { }; class C2 is D { }; say C2.^parents
20:00 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«((D))␤»
20:01 hankache i need something like this: D.^children
20:01 hankache any ideas?
20:01 musiKk ugexe: Thanks!
20:11 kjs_ joined #perl6
20:15 MadcapJake when creating a 2015.12 build of perl6 and panda, should i use panda's 2015.12 tag tar.gz or just «git clone --recursive» as the readme states?
20:16 timotimo o/
20:16 timotimo any reason to backlog today?
20:16 hankache hola timo
20:17 ZoffixWin timotimo, yes, someone came up with cure for cancer
20:19 ZoffixWin hankache, no, there isn't a ^children. You may find some of this useful, but it won't work for anonymous classes and stuff like that: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Evil/blob/master/lib/Evil.pm6
20:20 hankache ZoffixWin I'll take a look at i. Thanks
20:22 chienjo joined #perl6
20:24 chienjo p6: say |('A'..'Z')
20:24 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ␤»
20:28 spider-mario joined #perl6
20:31 chienjo p6: my @lower  = 'a'..'z'; say @lower.comb
20:31 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(a   b   c   d   e   f   g   h   i   j   k   l   m   n   o   p   q   r   s   t   u   v   w   x   y   z)␤»
20:31 chienjo p6: my @lower  = 'a'..'z'; say @lower.pick(*)
20:31 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(i c z q r o u l h f m t p y a d e w s n j x v k g b)␤»
20:31 chienjo p6: my @lower  = 'a'..'z'; say @lower.pick(^5)
20:31 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(g j b y o)␤»
20:32 chienjo p6: my @lower  = 'a'..'z'; say @lower.pick(5)
20:32 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«(u g c w n)␤»
20:36 chienjo p6: my @lower  = 'a'..'z'; say @lower.combinations(4)
20:36 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«((a b c d) (a b c e) (a b c f) (a b c g) (a b c h) (a b c i) (a b c j) (a b c k) (a b c l) (a b c m) (a b c n) (a b c o) (a b c p) (a b c q) (a b c r) (a b c s) (a b c t) (a b c u) (a b c v) (a b c w) (a b c x) (a b c y) (a b c z) (a b d e) (a b d f) (a b …»
20:37 lokien_ joined #perl6
20:38 chienjo p6: my @lower  = 'a'..'z'; say @lower.combinations(4).elems
20:38 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«14950␤»
20:38 pmurias joined #perl6
20:39 pmurias ely-se: re Perl 6 -> JavaScript compiler, it's still at the NQP stage
20:41 timotimo the fosdem totally took me by surprise
20:41 renatolrr joined #perl6
20:41 MadcapJake timotimo: how so?
20:42 vendethiel by surprise
20:42 Juerd How was fosdem?
20:43 Juerd I had to miss it
20:43 Juerd Spent most of my days in bed.
20:44 chienjo joined #perl6
20:45 MadcapJake vendethiel: -_-
20:45 vendethiel I hope more videos will be available this year
20:46 MadcapJake I spent the weekend battling heroku (and losing)
20:47 moritz MadcapJake: try hosting it on hack.p6c.org?
20:47 MadcapJake gladly!
20:47 MadcapJake i asked earlier but never received a reply
20:48 timotimo MadcapJake: it just happened without me realizing it'd happen at that time
20:48 MadcapJake ahh i see
20:49 moritz MadcapJake: what username do you want?
20:50 renatolrr joined #perl6
20:50 moritz MadcapJake: oh wait, are you jrusso on there?
20:50 MadcapJake yeah
20:50 moritz MadcapJake: so, what do you need?
20:51 MadcapJake well i created a free domain «perl6.bestforever.com» so i'll need to direct that to a web server, i already have the website built: https://github.com/MadcapJake/perl6-slack-inviter
20:53 moritz MadcapJake: can you control the DNS entries of perl6.bestforever.com?
20:53 MadcapJake yeah
20:55 moritz MadcapJake: I'd propose we do the following: you start a web server listening on localhost on a free port, I add a virtualhost for that domain, and set up a reverse proxy that connects to your port; then you point the DNS to hack's public IP (213.95.82.54)
20:55 moritz MadcapJake: and when that works for a while, you write a systemd service file that keeps the Perl 6 process running
20:56 wamba joined #perl6
21:07 MadcapJake ok, i may have forgotten my password :P
21:07 moritz MadcapJake: should I reset it?
21:09 MadcapJake yeah, is the network unreachable because i tried too many times xD
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21:12 hankache what is the difference between module and package ?
21:12 RabidGravy I'm confusled
21:12 moritz hankache: a package can do less stuff basically
21:13 RabidGravy m: package F {};  package F{}
21:13 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: ( no output )
21:13 RabidGravy m: module F {};  module F{}
21:13 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/IQ4ed0IYTm␤Redeclaration of symbol F␤at /tmp/IQ4ed0IYTm:1␤------> 3module F {};  module F7⏏5{}␤    expecting any of:␤        generic role␤»
21:13 moritz m: package A { ... }; class A { }
21:13 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/N8unmOv6pH␤The following packages were stubbed but not defined:␤    A␤at /tmp/N8unmOv6pH:1␤------> 3package A { ... }; class A { }7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        postfix␤        state…»
21:13 RabidGravy m: module F {};  module F {}
21:13 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/A9WefOgXd2␤Redeclaration of symbol F␤at /tmp/A9WefOgXd2:1␤------> 3module F {};  module F7⏏5 {}␤    expecting any of:␤        generic role␤»
21:14 Skarsnik lol
21:14 Skarsnik that really a weird error
21:14 RabidGravy but yeah the most user visible difference is that you can have the same package more than one, not so with a module
21:15 Skarsnik Package was not to have one module on multiple files?
21:15 Skarsnik or to have like Java package
21:16 hankache aha
21:16 hankache thanks
21:16 Skarsnik I like java package stuff, because you can say "This class is public for the package" and you can access the class freely in your package without exposing it to the outside world that use your package
21:16 RabidGravy well, it's what you get if have A::B::C if you don't specify otherwise
21:17 RabidGravy m: module A::B { class C { } }; say A.HOW; say A::B.HOW;  say A::B::C.HOW;
21:17 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«Perl6::Metamodel::PackageHOW.new␤Perl6::Metamodel::ModuleHOW.new␤Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW.new␤»
21:20 AlexDaniel m: say [~] (0..0x1FFFF ==> grep { .uniprop ~~ m/‘Me’/ })».chr
21:21 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«҈҉᪾⃝⃞⃟⃠⃢⃣⃤꙰꙱꙲␤»
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21:26 masak Skarsnik: I think I like lexical scoping for the reason you give. you declare a variable in a scope, and you can access it in exactly that scope. doesn't even need a special mechanism or keyword.
21:28 AlexDaniel m: say [~] (0..0x1FFFF ==> grep { .uniname ~~ m/‘FACE’/ })».chr
21:28 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«፦∯☹☺☻⚀⚁⚂⚃⚄⚅⾯〠龜????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????…»
21:28 Guest9988 joined #perl6
21:28 ZoffixWin .u ????
21:28 yoleaux U+1F439 HAMSTER FACE [So] (????)
21:31 ZoffixWin m: say [~] (0..0x1FFFF ==> grep { .uniname ~~ m/‘DONG’/ })».chr
21:32 camelia rakudo-moar 2e1782: OUTPUT«༙᭡₫␤»
21:32 ZoffixWin :}
21:34 domidumont joined #perl6
21:35 masak .u ᭡
21:35 yoleaux U+1B61 BALINESE MUSICAL SYMBOL DONG [So] (᭡)
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21:46 moritz \o/ http://perl6.bestforever.com/ runs now
21:46 moritz hosted on hack, powered by Perl 6 (and Bailador and Apache and Linux and ... )
21:47 MadcapJake moritz++
21:48 RabidGravy cool
21:48 * MadcapJake waits in Perl 6 slack for anyone to actually join :P
21:48 MadcapJake moritz: would it be alright to post to reddit?
21:49 moritz MadcapJake: sure
21:49 pmurias what's the advantage of slack over irc?
21:49 moritz the chances of it attrackting much traffic isn't big anyway :-)
21:49 MadcapJake well, that's a big topic xD
21:49 MadcapJake moritz: yeah agreed :)
21:49 moritz anyway, time for sleep here
21:50 MadcapJake pmurias: lots of zealous opinions on slack vs irc, my whole purpose behind setting this up is *just* about adoption (especially amongst the young hip crowd)
21:52 * MadcapJake loves that he found a fun domain at freedns.afraid.org
21:57 pmurias nqp-js beats nqp-m on the most silly benchmark ever (http://paste.debian.net/377859)
21:58 CurtisOvidPoe joined #perl6
22:00 pmurias 1.29s vs 5.38s (and for perl5 without type annotation 14s) ;)
22:00 nine So we should clearly abandon MoarVM
22:01 pmurias duh, looping and multiplication over doubles is the only thing that counts
22:01 pmurias ;)
22:03 RabidGravy well yeah
22:09 geekosaur reminds me of ghc's llvm backend sucks for everything except floating point ops, where it's way better than ncg >.>
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22:13 MadcapJake ofc i'm getting downvotes from all the irc fans :( oh well
22:14 jast repeat after me: reddit isn't for unpopular opinions
22:14 MadcapJake lol
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22:15 * geekosaur will note that he doesn't mind Slack as an addiitonal "channel" --- just don't expect him to switch to it
22:16 MadcapJake geekosaur: I completely understand that, and that's exactly what this is, an adoption channel, just as the perl6 chanel in irc.perl is funofficial, same goes for this
22:17 AlexDaniel “Success! Check oasuhtoae@caou.et for an invite from Slack.” ok… no sorry
22:19 AlexDaniel MadcapJake: perhaps we should let the young crowd try irc :)
22:21 geekosaur the young crowd seems to think irc is passe and needs to be replaced with something more inscrutable >.>
22:22 * skids wonders why all the fads never seem to include ditchin centralized services run by unaccountable providers.
22:22 MadcapJake AlexDaniel: What's the issue with the wording there? Do you not like checking your email?
22:22 AlexDaniel MadcapJake: that's not my email. I just want to get in
22:23 MadcapJake Oh you do need an email :P
22:24 AlexDaniel MadcapJake: anyway, is it planned to have a bot here that will be showing what this young crowd is saying there?
22:24 MadcapJake The young crowd will always do whatever it wants, it pays little attention to principles.  It's more important to meet them where they stand than to just expect them to come to you.  Again, this is an adoption channel
22:24 MadcapJake AlexDaniel: I can actually do a full irc bridge that just mirrors all the chatter here there.
22:24 MadcapJake and vice versa
22:25 AlexDaniel perhaps it is a meaningful thing to do? Otherwise I don't see how this could possibly be helpful
22:25 MadcapJake I really want to see if I can get a perl6 bot like camelia too
22:25 captain-adequate joined #perl6
22:26 AlexDaniel e.g. young guy joins that shiny thing, no one is there, young guy quits
22:26 MadcapJake AlexDaniel: I'm not so sure actually, it's okay for people to meet and discuss things in seperate places than the official channel btw
22:26 MadcapJake AlexDaniel: yes it does need to be used for it to be usable
22:26 AlexDaniel yeah except that lots of smart folks who are present here will not be using this shiny thing
22:26 jast there's lots of features IRC could stand to gain... there was an unnatural level of attention on the IRCv3 post a day or so ago
22:26 geekosaur there could be a #perl6-slack linked and those who want to can join it?
22:26 MadcapJake I placed a memo at the top of the general channel discussing what the official channel is and that this is *not* official by any means
22:27 jast so I do understand why stuff like slack gets the attention it's getting
22:27 MadcapJake geekosaur: yeah I like that idea
22:27 geekosaur jast, there are lots of things tat IRC could stand to have --- but it looks to me like slack's architecture is a disaster
22:27 geekosaur hipchat's somewhat better
22:27 jast IRC's architecture is a disaster, too... but everyone who came up with something better never got anywhere worth mentioning
22:27 MadcapJake Again, adoption is less about architecture and principles and more about what is currently popular.
22:28 geekosaur (but only somewhat. let's not replace irc with something merely *differently* sucky)
22:28 geekosaur (I mean, if we'd followed that with perl 6, it'd be python or something >.> )
22:28 jast both slack and IRC have a single point of failure issue
22:30 jast (I'm guessing about slack... it's pretty difficult to do resilient and fault-tolerant chat, though, so I'm optimistic about my guess)
22:31 MadcapJake hope to see some of you on slack anyways! I'm off to dinner.
22:31 AlexDaniel yeah, adoption is about marketing
22:32 AlexDaniel too bad it doesn't work on conscious crowd…
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22:32 jast marketing can work on anyone, you just need to understand your "target"
22:32 MadcapJake hehe yep, it's more about the glitz and I think the language itself has tons of that, so just connecting with them will help!
22:33 AlexDaniel jast: actually, you're probably right. Gitter is doing great just by focusing on developers
22:33 jast for example, Camelia is an ingenious targeting device
22:34 * MadcapJake is off to dinner
22:34 jast gitter could not send me a billion e-mails by default, that'd be great
22:34 AlexDaniel jast: just leave it. That's what I did. For exactly the same reason
22:35 jast and do blocking work in their javascript, misinterpret my click to create a chatroom for an org with many people in it, send them all e-mail, and send a pull request to the project :}
22:36 jast AlexDaniel: you're right... there isn't even an option to configure notifications, so you've successfully convinced me
22:38 geekosaur tbh my main issue with slack isn't actually with slack. it's with the realization a couple years ago when I was being pushed to be on 15 different message services each with its own client, and several of them didn't like the idea of anyone using anything but their designated client
22:39 geekosaur and, well, no. I dont care how special your messaging is, I;m not dealing with 15 clients.
22:39 jast yeah, one client for all IM-type messaging seems reasonable
22:40 geekosaur (skype was actually the straw that broke this camel's back)
22:40 jast I don't know any client that does both group chat/IRC and IM properly
22:40 jast so even with services that make that possible I'm still forced to use multiple clients
22:41 geekosaur sure. Im willing to do one of each of those, having also noticed that there doesn't seem to be a good way to unify what turn out to be different messaging models
22:41 kurahaupo_ joined #perl6
22:41 dalek rakudo/nom: 8c406bf | (Andy Weidenbaum)++ | tools/lib/NQP/Configure.pm:
22:41 dalek rakudo/nom: fix parse_revision subroutine regex
22:41 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:41 dalek rakudo/nom: - compare release candidate versions, e.g. 2016.01-RC1
22:41 dalek rakudo/nom: - use extended p5 regex for readability
22:41 dalek rakudo/nom: - quiet warnings when regex captures undefined
22:41 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8c406bf674
22:41 dalek rakudo/nom: a5fe347 | niner++ | tools/lib/NQP/Configure.pm:
22:41 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #700 from atweiden/tools-parse-revision
22:41 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:41 dalek rakudo/nom: fix parse_revision subroutine regex
22:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a5fe3475c0
22:42 jast it doesn't feel like it *has* to be impossible... but yeah, same thing for me
22:42 AlexDaniel jast: pidgin?
22:42 jast then again, after all these years there still isn't any decent mail client ;)
22:42 geekosaur but only *one*. when I found myself trying to fit a separate skype in around the hexchat and the pidgin/adium, after finding that skype integration had been broken and wasn't really fixable, I drew the line
22:43 jast AlexDaniel: for a frame of reference... I use irssi for IRC
22:43 jast not because I prefer console over widget toolkits, but because that level of customizable and advanced features doesn't seem to exist in any other shape
22:43 geekosaur zephyr actually made that clear, there were clients that acted like IM and clients that acted like IRC and the latter worked far better for the way I was using it
22:45 AlexDaniel well, there is Tox that is quite promising… it's just that it will take another 5 years for it to get ready for normal use.
22:47 AlexDaniel it has different clients, it's foss, it has reasonably good groupchats (the ones that are not merged yet)…
22:48 jast your description fits XMPP, too
22:48 AlexDaniel it's also distributed. If slack or anything else were promising these things in the future, then yeah, that'd be great. Otherwise not so much, I'll wait for better things to come.
22:52 jast quite a few years ago I spent a lot of time designing an alternative protocol. well, it turned out design doesn't magically turn into implementation...
22:59 geekosaur and sometimes what looks like a good design doesn't work quite as well in implementation (hello XMPP...)
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23:12 nine geekosaur: I'd argue that XMPP is not exactly an example for a good design (streaming XML!?)
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23:39 avar Are there some less trivial examples of concurrency in perl6?
23:40 avar I went to lizmat++'s talk at FOSDEM today and while it's completely fair to show easier concurrency examples in a "what's new in p6" talk I'm looking for something that shows how the hairy edge cases are covered.
23:40 ZoffixWin joined #perl6
23:40 avar Been to a few demos of p6 concurrency, and it's mostly easy stuff without side-effects
23:40 ZoffixWin What sort of hairy edge, side-effects stuff are you looking for?
23:41 avar Looking for e.g. something that sends off 100 concurrent DB requests, the db connection for each thing can die at any time and will need to be restarted, the whole thing needs a global timeout and stopping/killing/ignoring offending threads
23:42 avar Or e.g. how is something where you have an underlying object (e.g. a network connection) managed with either mutexes or spawning lots of clones..
23:43 ingy joined #perl6
23:44 skids The concurrency stuff was more or less a beta API right up until close to the 6.c release so not many people went that far out on a limb yet I think.
23:44 labster joined #perl6
23:45 skids (There were some late changes ("serial supplies") before 6.c, and there are still some issues to work out, mostly documetation, but some behavioral)
23:47 krakan joined #perl6
23:48 leont My TAP harness is a non-trivial example, but currently it's also exposing bugs :-/
23:48 masak 'night, #perl6
23:51 ZoffixWin night
23:53 skids I would say odds are that at this point, you are unlikely to rely on a major feature and get the rug pulled completely out from underneath you, but relying on undocumented behavior is still a bit iffy which is why doc fixes are needed.

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