Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-03-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:47 Xliff perlawhirl: It's not a bad idea from my viewpoint.
00:47 Xliff The only problem is I don't know if p6 can pass expressions as arguments to be evaluated.
00:47 Xliff I haven't progressed that far into the language, yet.
00:48 perlawhirl well, yeah i asked my question earlier, because if i knew how to make it into a module i would.
00:50 Success joined #perl6
00:50 perlawhirl it's more of a question of whether the parser can understand it, but the subset syntax is fairly unique, so it shouldn't be a problem to differentiate the use of `where` elsewhere
00:50 geekosaur that requires a macro normally (note that macros are still rather slushy) but * can make autoclosures under some circumstances
00:51 Success p6: say 3;
00:51 camelia rakudo-moar e57e63: OUTPUT«3␤»
00:51 geekosaur so in the subset syntax `where * < 5` the expression is a WhateverCode, which is a closure
00:51 perlawhirl yes... but it's also a Whatever closure when used in a grep method: @list.grep(* < 5)
00:53 Xliff > sub test($a) { say $a.WHAT }; test(* %% 2);
00:53 Xliff (WhateverCode)
00:53 Xliff Neat
00:53 Xliff Problem now is how you evaluate what's in $a over a list.
00:55 perlawhirl the functionilty is there. it's called grep, i'm just suggesting an additional name for it
00:56 sjn is there actually a way to "alias" function names in Perl 6?
00:57 perlawhirl well, that was my original question, but i go no real response
00:57 geekosaur sjn, for global functions yes, methods are a harder issue
00:57 geekosaur "global"
00:58 Juerd m: sub foo { 42 }; my &bar = &foo; say bar()
00:58 camelia rakudo-moar e57e63: OUTPUT«42␤»
00:58 Juerd Although := more closely resembles aliasing:
00:58 Juerd m: sub foo { 42 }; my &bar := &foo; say bar()
00:58 camelia rakudo-moar e57e63: OUTPUT«42␤»
00:59 perlawhirl yeah, i know i can do it with functions
00:59 Juerd But?
00:59 perlawhirl m: my &where = &grep; say where { $_ < 5 }, ^10
00:59 camelia rakudo-moar e57e63: OUTPUT«(0 1 2 3 4)␤»
00:59 perlawhirl but who uses grep as a function any more :D
01:00 Juerd Can you repeat your question then?
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01:01 perlawhirl originally... i asked "am i able to rename a method (eg. grep) to something else... or rather, create a method that basically points to grep"
01:01 Xliff Juerd: perlawhirl wants to add a .where alias to the List class
01:01 Juerd Ah. I don't know.
01:01 Xliff Which just points to .grep
01:01 Juerd I think 'where' would be confusing, because it already means something else
01:02 perlawhirl Juerd: did you read my gist? https://gist.github.com/0racle/ea0523759e2da15758d4
01:02 sjn .inwhich
01:02 sjn .assuming
01:02 sjn .lookingfor
01:02 Xliff .seek
01:02 Juerd perlawhirl: Will do so now
01:02 Xliff O WAI.
01:03 Xliff That might get confused with IO ops.
01:03 timotimo .getFeeder.getHand.bite()
01:03 perlawhirl one of the design principle i read somewhere was about reusing syntax. there's also things about perl6 being less unix centric, and prior art with unix-y operators given friendlier names
01:03 Xliff timo x 2: nom nom nom
01:03 Juerd perlawhirl: I've read it now. I don't think it's very useful to rename or alias it.
01:04 Juerd perlawhirl: I think it's entirely okay if the proverbial 7 year old girl learns a tiny bit of unix :)
01:04 geekosaur assuming is taken
01:04 perlawhirl hah!
01:04 Juerd Besides, I like infix ops for grep more than methods, I think
01:05 geekosaur and I think the problem with obvious ways to alias or rename something is that it's Difficult to capture both named and positional parameters and pass them on properly (although Captures are likely part of the solution)
01:05 Xliff Anyone else have Match eqv examples that I can test?
01:05 Juerd m: method infix:<having> (@list, $match) { @list.grep: * ~~ $match }; say ^23 having /^2/;
01:05 camelia rakudo-moar e57e63: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/mDjRrhLsCv:1␤------> 3ch) { @list.grep: * ~~ $match }; say ^237⏏5 having /^2/;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        sta…»
01:05 Juerd Darn.
01:05 Juerd m: method infix:<having> (@list, $match) { @list.grep: * ~~ $match }; say (^23) having /^2/;
01:05 camelia rakudo-moar e57e63: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/BY6so6MyWZ:1␤------> 3) { @list.grep: * ~~ $match }; say (^23)7⏏5 having /^2/;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        sta…»
01:05 Juerd Er.
01:06 Juerd Oh, d'oh
01:06 Juerd sub, not method!
01:06 Juerd m: sub infix:<having> (@list, $match) { @list.grep: * ~~ $match }; say (^23) having /^2/;
01:06 camelia rakudo-moar e57e63: OUTPUT«(2 20 21 22)␤»
01:06 Juerd m: sub infix:<except> (@list, $exception) { @list.grep: * !~~ $exception }; say (^10) except 5;
01:07 camelia rakudo-moar e57e63: OUTPUT«(0 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9)␤»
01:07 Juerd :P
01:08 * Xliff is still getting used to the ^....
01:08 Xliff m: say ^5
01:08 camelia rakudo-moar e57e63: OUTPUT«^5␤»
01:08 Xliff m: say (^5)
01:08 camelia rakudo-moar e57e63: OUTPUT«^5␤»
01:08 geekosaur the problem with that is that except to me reads like a trait
01:08 Juerd m: say flat ^5
01:08 camelia rakudo-moar e57e63: OUTPUT«(0 1 2 3 4)␤»
01:08 perlawhirl geekosaur: yes, i understand that doing this in the language currently is difficult due to the way methods like grep are implemented. i guess my fantasy is that a guts dev sees my proposal, likes it, and eventually makes it's way into the languange proper :D
01:08 geekosaur (is, does, where, except...)
01:08 perlawhirl a guy can dream
01:08 Xliff Juerd: Well FINE! Be that way! =)
01:09 Juerd perlawhirl: Changing a keyword can't be done because it would break compatibility. Aliasing doesn't fix the alledged problem because programmers will still encounter the original name, except if you deprecate the original. But usually things have to be a lot more wrong than this, for them to be deprecated.
01:10 Juerd I think that you're just a bit too late to the party for this change. But of course you can try
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01:11 perlawhirl well, i'm not suggesting a removal of grep at all! just a friendlier nickname
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01:12 Juerd perlawhirl: If it's an alias you need to learn both.
01:12 Juerd That makes learning the language harder, not easier.
01:13 Xliff So this is my Match infix:<eqv> attempt. Any thoughts? -> http://pastebin.com/ct76gh5H
01:14 perlawhirl well, the context that this magical .where method is used in virtually identical to the context it's used in subset definition, so not really much more to learn.
01:14 perlawhirl i understand that post 6.c, changes (additions?) like this are unlikely
01:15 perlawhirl but truthfully, if it existed, i would use .where over .grep any day, cause it reads nicer
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01:15 Juerd There's already a 'where' in the language.
01:15 Juerd Don't you think that it would be confusing to have a method with the same name?
01:15 Juerd m: my Int $foo where * > 5; $foo = 6; $foo = 3;
01:15 camelia rakudo-moar bff643: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $foo; expected <anon> but got Int (3)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/FnEhiy7Km0 line 1␤␤»
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01:17 Xliff m: my Int $foo where * > 5; $foo = 6;
01:17 camelia rakudo-moar bff643: ( no output )
01:17 perlawhirl not so much, not if the method serves a very similar purpose
01:17 perlawhirl http://tablets.perl6.org/tablet-1-language-design.html#maximum-reuse
01:17 Xliff m: my Int $foo where * > 5; $foo = 3;
01:17 camelia rakudo-moar bff643: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $foo; expected <anon> but got Int (3)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/MAyzfpdRpm line 1␤␤»
01:17 geekosaur where could be both method and trait_mod, I think
01:17 Xliff Oooooo
01:17 perlawhirl "Not only is syntax reused to minimize the stuff you have to remember, but concepts are reused also, wherever possible."
01:18 perlawhirl the concepts are virtually identical
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01:21 Xliff I am not a fan of golf.
01:21 Xliff I like readable code.
01:22 Xliff But even I have to admit the Jelly solution here was awesome.
01:22 Xliff http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/75935/split-a-byte-array-into-a-bit-array
01:24 perlawhirl i almost feel like all these stack based golfing langs should be exempt from the competition, or they can have their own leaderboard
01:24 Xliff LOL
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02:16 perlawhirl does anyone use the Stylish browser plugin. i'm using it with the GitHub Dark theme. browsing github is now much easier on the eyes
02:18 timotimo where can i find this thing? (also, i am on chrome)
02:18 * geekosaur started using that a couple months ago. helps a lot when I'm being photophobic...
02:18 timotimo found it
02:18 geekosaur timotimo, Tampermonkey
02:18 timotimo https://github.com/StylishThemes/GitHub-Dark - stylish is linked to from here
02:19 perlawhirl yep... try it out, promise you'll love it
02:19 geekosaur oh, and Stylish exists for Chrome
02:19 perlawhirl unless you're one of those sick individuals that doesn't like dark themes
02:19 geekosaur only problem is github keeps changing things and you can get glitches until the theme is fixed
02:19 perlawhirl the colours it uses for syntax highlighted code is nicer too.
02:20 perlawhirl yeah. github is nowhere near as bad as cisco.com. i think cisco employs a team of people who's job is to move and change shit every few weeks
02:21 timotimo at least you have no reason to look at cisco.com more than once a month, right?
02:21 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
02:22 perlawhirl not unless you manage hundreds of enterprise networks... like me
02:22 timotimo oof
02:22 perlawhirl support is a better word... i don't manage shit :D
02:22 perlawhirl such is the wonderful world of managed services
02:24 perlawhirl fun fact: when i started this job we had to audit newly transitioned sites for one of our larger customers. new sites would come in every few weeks/months...
02:24 perlawhirl i was trying to automate the config audit with autohotkey... one of the guys i worked with said "why don't you learn perl"
02:24 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
02:24 Xliff https://github.com/dnmfarrell/Perl6-One-Liners <-- fun reading
02:25 perlawhirl i thought to myself "nah, that's a proper language, not smart enough".. but i learned it and loved it and never looked back
02:25 perlawhirl that was about 3 years ago
02:25 perlawhirl so i'm a late comer to perl
02:26 AlexDaniel Hotkeys_: here?
02:26 Xliff And they said Perl was dead.
02:26 AlexDaniel Hotkeys_: I have found an undocumented feature!
02:26 AlexDaniel m: printf(“%08b\n”, 5)
02:26 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«00000101␤»
02:26 Xliff Been reading the Internets and people were put off by the long dev time for Perl6
02:27 * Xliff installs Stylish
02:28 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
02:28 AlexDaniel Hotkeys_: ah no, it is actually documented
02:28 * Xliff reloads open GitHub page.
02:29 * Xliff 's eyes THANK HIM.
02:29 Hotkeys_ lol AlexDaniel
02:29 perlawhirl haha, now look at a readme with a code snippet an feast your eyes on glorious muted orange and purple hues
02:30 perlawhirl or heck any source file
02:31 AlexDaniel m: say +«([~] (sprintf(“%08b”, $_) for ‘f0oBaR’.ords)).comb(/.**5/)
02:31 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(1100 11000 11000 110 11110 10000 10011 1 1010)␤»
02:32 AlexDaniel ah
02:32 Hotkeys you can just comb 5
02:32 Hotkeys or n
02:32 Xliff m: say +«([~] (sprintf(“%08b”, $_) for ‘f0oBaR’.ords))
02:32 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(11001100011000001101111010000100110000101010010)␤»
02:33 synopsebot6 joined #perl6
02:33 Hotkeys oh
02:33 * Xliff will use that as a title, someday.
02:33 Hotkeys I didn't even think
02:33 Hotkeys about using %b
02:33 Hotkeys instead of %d
02:33 Xliff Hotkeys: Are you golfing?
02:33 Hotkeys m: {({:2($_)}for ({sprintf("%08b",$_)}for @^a).join.comb($^b).map({$_~0 x$b-.chars}))}([102,48,111,66,97,82])
02:33 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/O40S1L6Zeh line 1␤␤»
02:34 Hotkeys m: {({:2($_)}for ({sprintf("%08b",$_)}for @^a).join.comb($^b).map({$_~0 x$b-.chars}))}([102,48,111,66,97,82], 5)
02:34 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: ( no output )
02:34 AlexDaniel m: say ([~] (sprintf(“%08b”, $_) for ‘f0oBaR’.ords)).comb(/.**5/)».&{:2($_)}
02:34 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(12 24 24 6 30 16 19 1 10)␤»
02:34 Hotkeys m: {({:2($_)}for ({sprintf("%08b",$_)}for @^a).join.comb($^b).map({$_~0 x$b-.chars}))}([102,48,111,66,97,82], 5).say
02:34 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(12 24 24 6 30 16 19 1 10 8)␤»
02:34 AlexDaniel Xliff: http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/75935/split-a-byte-array-into-a-bit-array
02:34 Xliff Yeah. I ref'd that earlier, so the examples looked.... eeenteresting.
02:34 Xliff Still ♥ the Jelly solution.
02:35 jack_rabbit_ joined #perl6
02:35 AlexDaniel we should probably make a new language for golfing
02:35 perlawhirl Xliff:  you keep talking about it... you sound... jelly
02:35 AlexDaniel where one unicode character represents the whole solution to some specific golf problem
02:36 Hotkeys I don't like any golf languages
02:36 Hotkeys so
02:36 Xliff We have enough unicode characters for that to work.....for a while.
02:36 Xliff I don't golf unless it involves hitting rubber balls with long sticks.
02:36 Xliff And I'm even dangerous at that (balls go backwards)
02:36 Xliff You don't want me golfing.... of any sort.
02:37 Xliff >_>
02:37 Xliff <_<
02:37 * Xliff waits for the inevitable response from the gutter....
02:37 AlexDaniel and then we be like “look, this problem is solved in 1 character in GOLFLANG!!!”
02:37 AlexDaniel it will make all other golf languages obsolete
02:38 Xliff But keeping track of it alll....oh, the humanity!
02:38 AlexDaniel in fact, we don't even have to do anything… we can just use one of the submitted solutions!
02:39 AlexDaniel just copy-paste it and there you go!
02:39 Xliff Was it ₤ or ¤.... or ←
02:39 Xliff Oh, the options are ENDLESS!
02:39 * Xliff wonders if the person who introduced him to WinCompose realizes the monster he has created.
02:40 Hotkeys Wincompose is wonderful
02:40 cdg joined #perl6
02:40 Hotkeys AlexDaniel: that doesn't work when the languages has to be a version that came before the question was asked
02:40 Hotkeys :p
02:40 Hotkeys otherwise it's noncompeting
02:41 Xliff You've got ✉
02:41 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: what? There's actually a requirement like that?
02:41 Hotkeys yeah the language (version) can't be newer than the question
02:41 Hotkeys unless it says otherwise
02:41 Xliff ✱_✱
02:41 AlexDaniel so we can't solve any of the existing problems with v6.d ?
02:42 Hotkeys not in a competing way
02:46 AlexDaniel well, okay
02:46 AlexDaniel then we will just release a new version yesterday
02:46 geekosaur pah. slangs
02:46 Hotkeys http://meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/9/what-programming-language-should-we-consider-for-the-code-golf-solution/10#10
02:46 Hotkeys see this
02:46 Xliff Damn. There was a webpage that tested installed fonts to see if a unicode character worked by fonts.
02:46 Xliff Can't remember it now.
02:47 ilbot3 joined #perl6
02:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
02:47 AlexDaniel m: {(:2($_)for (sprintf("%08b",$_)for @^a).join.comb($^b)».&{$_~0 x$b-.chars})}([102,48,111,66,97,82], 5).say
02:47 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(12 24 24 6 30 16 19 1 10 8)␤»
02:47 Xliff Wish I had bookmarked it.
02:47 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: is it shorter?
02:48 Hotkeys m: {({:2($_)}for ({sprintf("%08b",$_)}for @^a).join.comb($^b).map({$_~0 x$b-.chars}))}([102,48,111,66,97,82], 5).say
02:48 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(12 24 24 6 30 16 19 1 10 8)␤»
02:48 Hotkeys one byte
02:48 Hotkeys nice
02:49 Hotkeys well
02:49 Hotkeys one byte from my not-yet adjusted answer
02:49 Hotkeys liek 15 from the original
02:50 Hotkeys oh wait
02:50 perlawhirl did anyone manage a quine in perl6 yet
02:50 Xliff Can WinCompose work with the unicode number?
02:50 Hotkeys m: {(:2($_)for ({sprintf("%08b",$_)}for @^a).join.comb($^b).map({$_~0 x$b-.chars}))}([102,48,111,66,97,82], 5).say
02:50 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(12 24 24 6 30 16 19 1 10 8)␤»
02:50 Hotkeys nope
02:50 perlawhirl i thought about it breifly, then my brain imploded
02:50 Xliff My brain always implodes when I read the word "quine"
02:50 Hotkeys await
02:50 Xliff ★_★
02:50 Hotkeys line wrapping is messing with my eyes
02:51 Hotkeys yeah it's a decent amount shorter AlexDaniel
02:51 Xliff None of the fun charcters are working in this IRC client.
02:52 Hotkeys lol
02:52 Hotkeys <perlawhirl> did anyone manage a quine in perl6 yet
02:52 Hotkeys I did a cheating quine
02:52 Hotkeys :p
02:52 Hotkeys something like 'slurp $*FILE'
02:52 AlexDaniel m: {(:2($_)for (sprintf("%08b",$_)for @^a).join.comb($^b)».&{$_~0 x$b-.chars})}([102,48,111,66,97,82], 5).say
02:52 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(12 24 24 6 30 16 19 1 10 8)␤»
02:52 skids m: {(:2[flat $_, 0 xx (-$_ % $^n)] for ($^f.map({|.polymod(2 xx 7).reverse}).rotor($n)))}(Blob.new(102,48,111,66,97,82), 5).perl.say
02:52 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(12, 24, 24, 6, 30, 16, 19, 1, 10)␤»
02:53 skids darn shaved it.
02:54 Xliff2 joined #perl6
02:54 perlawhirl Hotkeys: is there a Basename variable?
02:54 Hotkeys Basename?
02:54 perlawhirl Dynamic variable $*FILE not found
02:54 perlawhirl yeah, like... name of the script file
02:54 Xliff2 ★_★
02:54 Hotkeys $?FILE
02:54 Hotkeys not $*FILE
02:54 Hotkeys my bad
02:54 skids m: {(:2[flat $_, 0 xx (-$_ % $^n)] for ($^f.map({|.polymod(2 xx 7).reverse}).rotor($n, :partial)))}(Blob.new(102,48,111,66,97,82), 5).perl.say
02:54 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(12, 24, 24, 6, 30, 16, 19, 1, 10, 8)␤»
02:54 Xliff2 OK. This client works better.
02:55 perlawhirl ah
02:55 kalkin- joined #perl6
02:55 Xliff I will have to remember to preserve my logs from the older version.
02:55 perlawhirl so how is that a cheat? is that one of the stipulations?
02:56 perlawhirl cause this works a treat: say slurp $?FILE;
02:56 Hotkeys quines usually say
02:56 AlexDaniel m: sprintf "%08b": 42
02:56 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: ( no output )
02:56 Hotkeys "can't read source code"
02:56 perlawhirl ah
02:56 AlexDaniel m: printf "%08b": 42
02:56 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«00101010»
02:56 perlawhirl ok
02:56 timotimo perlawhirl: doesn't work with -e, though?
02:56 perlawhirl probably not... there's no $?FILE
02:57 perlawhirl alright... i actually read the challenge. no reading source
02:58 AlexDaniel m: {(:2($_)for @^a».&{sprintf "%08b",$_}.join.comb($^b)».&{$_~0 x$b-.chars})}([102,48,111,66,97,82], 5).say
02:58 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(12 24 24 6 30 16 19 1 10 8)␤»
02:58 AlexDaniel 1 byte shorter if I am not mistaken
02:58 AlexDaniel or wait
02:58 AlexDaniel m: '»'.ords.say
02:58 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(187)␤»
02:58 AlexDaniel 187? So this is still 1 byte??
02:59 Hotkeys m: my &f = {say $^s, $^s.perl;}; f "my \&f = \{say \$^s, \$^s.perl;}; f "
02:59 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«my &f = {say $^s, $^s.perl;}; f "my \&f = \{say \$^s, \$^s.perl;}; f "␤»
02:59 Hotkeys from rosetta code
02:59 geekosaur I think that's a codepoint
03:00 geekosaur as bytes it'd be 2
03:00 Hotkeys yeah
03:00 AlexDaniel m: {@^a».&{sprintf "%08b",$_}.join.comb($^b)».&{$_~0 x$b-.chars}».&{:2($_)}}([102,48,111,66,97,82], 5).say
03:00 Hotkeys it's 2 bytes
03:00 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(12 24 24 6 30 16 19 1 10 8)␤»
03:00 Hotkeys m: "»".codes
03:00 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: ( no output )
03:00 Hotkeys m: "»".codes.say
03:00 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«1␤»
03:00 Hotkeys m: "»".bytes.say
03:00 AlexDaniel ok, now that is very straightforward
03:00 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«Method 'bytes' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ud9a9gDWlz line 1␤␤»
03:00 Hotkeys m: "»".Buf.say
03:00 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«Method 'Buf' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/MsQub23aUz line 1␤␤»
03:00 AlexDaniel m: say "»".encode
03:00 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«utf8:0x<c2 bb>␤»
03:00 Hotkeys that
03:00 AlexDaniel fine
03:01 AlexDaniel it is still shorter
03:01 Hotkeys so is ».& always shorter than for
03:02 AlexDaniel m: {@^a».&{sprintf "%08b",$_}.join.comb($^b)».&{:2($_~0 x$b-.chars)}}([102,48,111,66,97,82], 5).say
03:02 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(12 24 24 6 30 16 19 1 10 8)␤»
03:02 AlexDaniel and one ».& is always shorter than two :)
03:02 AlexDaniel but yeah, seems so
03:03 Hotkeys m: "({}for x)".encode.elems.say; "x».&{}".encome.elems.say
03:03 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«Use of Nil in string context  in block <unit> at /tmp/R1UijKreaP line 1␤7␤Use of Nil in string context  in block <unit> at /tmp/R1UijKreaP line 1␤Method 'encome' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/R1UijKreaP line 1␤␤»
03:03 Xliff Hrmph! New IRC client already registered itself for irc://
03:03 Hotkeys m: "(\{\}for x)".encode.elems.say; "x».&\{\}".encome.elems.say
03:03 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«9␤Method 'encome' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/5fa0adLv3n line 1␤␤»
03:03 Hotkeys m: "(\{\}for x)".encode.elems.say; "x».&\{\}".encode.elems.say
03:03 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«9␤7␤»
03:03 Hotkeys neat
03:03 AlexDaniel m: say 「{@^a».&{sprintf "%08b",$_}.join.comb($^b)».&{:2($_~0 x$b-.chars)}}」.encode.elems
03:03 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«68␤»
03:03 Xliff Would have been nice for it to ask first, even if that was what I wanted.
03:04 Hotkeys AlexDaniel: do you want me to edit that into my answer
03:05 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: sure
03:05 Hotkeys do you have an account I can mention
03:05 AlexDaniel I don't want to be mentioned
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03:06 Hotkeys alright
03:07 AlexDaniel I do have a SO account, but at some point I realized that I didn't write any answer in like 2 years yet my score more than doubled
03:08 AlexDaniel and after considering other issues with SO-like systems I decided that I will try not to participate in that…
03:08 Hotkeys alright
03:10 AlexDaniel I *do* downvote shitty answers though, yes!
03:10 AlexDaniel and sometimes I upvote good ones too, but that's like 1/20 of my downvotes…
03:11 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: anyway, it would be interesting to see someone coming up with some interesting way to shorten this code
03:11 Hotkeys I don't really downvote
03:12 Xliff Wow. Changing clients was easier than I thought.
03:12 Xliff The one I was just using was from 2008!
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03:13 skids I'm loathe to work on the stringified approach, or a would.  I don;t want to go to bed feeling dirty :-)
03:13 Xliff skids: I hear ya.
03:14 Xliff skids: Thoughts on this infix:<eqv> for Match objects?
03:14 Xliff http://pastebin.com/ct76gh5H
03:17 skids Out of curiousity why the .WHAT?
03:17 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: it is not always shorter than for
03:17 Xliff skids: Nicked from Pair.pm
03:17 AlexDaniel m: {(:2($_~0 x$^b-.chars)for @^a».&{sprintf "%08b",$_}.join.comb($b))}([102,48,111,66,97,82], 5).say
03:17 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«(12 24 24 6 30 16 19 1 10 8)␤»
03:18 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: this should have exactly the same length in bytes
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03:18 Xliff skids: Signature should catch it, so I'm not tied to it.
03:18 Hotkeys AlexDaniel: same number of bytes as before
03:18 skids Xliff: the .from and .to might shortcircuit fastest maybe move them to the front.
03:18 Hotkeys m: "{(:2($_~0 x$^b-.chars)for @^a».&{sprintf "%08b",$_}.join.comb($b))}".encode.elems.say
03:18 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/7f8WrlWDfR␤Placeholder variable @^a may not be used here because the surrounding block takes no signature␤at /tmp/7f8WrlWDfR:1␤------> 3^a».&{sprintf "%08b",$_}.join.comb($b))}7⏏5".encode.elems.say…»
03:18 Xliff skids: Sure!
03:18 Hotkeys m: Q|{(:2($_~0 x$^b-.chars)for @^a».&{sprintf "%08b",$_}.join.comb($b))}|.encode.elems.say
03:18 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«68␤»
03:19 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: hm…
03:19 Hotkeys I really need to add the Q|| unicode quotes to my compose file
03:19 AlexDaniel 「」 these ones?
03:19 perlawhirl 「]
03:19 perlawhirl oops「」
03:19 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: ‘’ are good too
03:20 Hotkeys I have those
03:20 Hotkeys and “”
03:20 AlexDaniel use 'em!
03:20 Xliff skids: Updated with your suggestions.
03:20 perlawhirl does anyone else have issues in the repl with unicodey chars?
03:20 perlawhirl dunno if it's a prob with Linenoise
03:20 Xliff What is linenoise?
03:20 * Xliff looks.
03:21 perlawhirl if i type something like 「this」 hit enter, when i hit up arrow, i get 「this」 followed by 2 spaces, when i backspace, it deleted 」
03:21 perlawhirl so it's like there are additional hidden characters
03:21 perlawhirl i though maybe it's my term emulator, but the same thing doesn't happen in the python repl (though python doesn't know what 「this」 means)
03:22 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: I really like how this one ended up. It is more readable now
03:22 perlawhirl Xliff: Linenoise is a lightweight Readline-like lib
03:22 Xliff Ah. I already have Readline. Thanks.
03:23 perlawhirl yeah... i tried installing it and i got errors, so went with linenoise
03:23 Xliff perlawhirl: How are you doing the angled quotes?
03:23 skids Xliff: We'll have to see whether it is best to have the .made in there or not -- e.g. what will people want to use Match eqv Match for... likewise with the WHAT.  Those two I'm not sure what people will find useful.
03:23 Xliff skids: OK. Thanks for looking!
03:24 perlawhirl Xliff: not WinCompose. I am using AHK, but i always have a script running anyways... i have a bunch of hotstrings and keys i use for work. no point running wincompose as well when my persistent ahk scripts is always running
03:24 perlawhirl this is my work laptop, btw... ssh'd into a linux vm
03:25 perlawhirl using SecureCRT terminal emu
03:25 Xliff I have AHK script too. Forgot what for.
03:25 Xliff Mine isn't persistent, though. I think I have a script for killing that stupid rename extension dialog.
03:26 perlawhirl i have a bunch of things for work... j@ prints my email address, or name.surname@aw print name.surname@companyname.com.au
03:26 Xliff 「 <- What is the name of that, though?
03:26 perlawhirl plus ctrl+shift+z to show and hide my notepad dump file. lots of little things like that i use many times a dat
03:26 perlawhirl day
03:26 perlawhirl i dunno what it's called
03:28 skids m: '「'.uniname.say
03:28 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«HALFWIDTH LEFT CORNER BRACKET␤»
03:28 Xliff ⌈ceiling and floor⌋
03:29 Xliff Oriental quotation marks.
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03:32 perlawhirl Xliff: i think you mentioned a couple days back issues installing Shell::Command ?
03:32 perlawhirl was that you?
03:32 perlawhirl and if so... how did you resolve it
03:32 Xliff perlawhirl: I am. I fixed it.
03:33 perlawhirl .HOW
03:33 Xliff Used rakudobrew and installed to ~/.rakudobrew
03:33 Xliff So my entire perl6 install is local to root, but everything works.
03:33 perlawhirl oh, i built all my shit to /opt/* (ie, /opt/rakudobrew)
03:34 perlawhirl is it statically looking for something in ~/.rakudobrew ?
03:34 Xliff If you need perl6 for multiuser. Install into a regular user and have everyone else source the "rakudobrew init"
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03:34 perlawhirl but... 777 home permissions... bad
03:35 Xliff perlawhirl: I don't think so. My issue was that the Ubuntu package had a b0rked @INC
03:35 Hotkeys <Xliff> ⌈ceiling and floor⌋
03:35 Hotkeys not the same ones
03:35 perlawhirl ahh! no i think i know the problem
03:35 Xliff HotKeys: Ah well. They look close.
03:35 Hotkeys yeah
03:35 Xliff perlawhirl: K-tell?
03:35 Hotkeys p6 doesn't do em though
03:36 Xliff perlawhirl: You wouldn't need 777 home permissions, I don't think.
03:36 Xliff You'd only need that for package installation and that would be done by root, anyways.
03:36 Xliff s/would/should/
03:37 perlawhirl oh, ok, so i only need to do this to build packages?? i will punch some keys and see what happens
03:38 Xliff skids: Weird. WinCompose != Proper unicode naming,.
03:39 Xliff Either that or ⌈HALFWIDTH LEFT CORNER BRACKET⌋  isn't included, yet.
03:40 Xliff Oh wait. There are two versions.
03:40 skids https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack <-- one of the scarier aspects of unicode :-)
03:41 Xliff Oh wow! You're right.
03:45 skids That might make a nice Perl 6 module -- punycode activated by a safety policy.
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03:47 timotimo we do have a punycode module already, at least
03:52 timotimo http://xn--rl6-qdd8c.org/  -  aka Реrl6.org
03:55 skids It really perterbs me that fonts that mix up 1 and l or 0 and O still end up as defaults many places.
03:56 timotimo yeah :|
03:56 skids You'd think that would have made some UX checklist top 100 by now.
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04:05 Xliff skids: People never learn.
04:06 perlawhirl I'm back! Readline fixed the unicode weirdness
04:06 Xliff perlawhirl++
04:06 perlawhirl so year, fyi, repl using Linenoise doesn't like unicode
04:06 perlawhirl Xliff: fwiw my probs installing it were because root user wouldn't switch to the same version of perl6 as my user
04:07 perlawhirl ie, it was on 2016-01, instead of nom
04:07 timotimo oh, yeah, linenoise is a bit shitty about unicode ;(
04:07 perlawhirl it wouldn't obey global or switch directives... but local seemed to work
04:07 timotimo as long as you don't backspace over chars, you'll be fine ...
04:07 perlawhirl haha
04:07 perlawhirl that was the EXACT problem i was having
04:07 perlawhirl thanks for telling me timotimo... after i switched to readline :D
04:08 Xliff heh
04:08 Xliff (timo x 2)++
04:08 Xliff That made me laugh.
04:10 perlawhirl so are we expecting a 2016-03 cut sometime in the next week?
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04:14 perlawhirl i can't remember what i was trying to do with it now, but it would be nice if succ took an integer so i could increment string literals by arbitrary amounts, ie 'a'.succ(25) # output: 'z'
04:16 perlawhirl though i can't remember why i wanted to do it, so it's probably not that useful
04:18 Xliff m: say ('a'.ord + 25).chr
04:18 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«z␤»
04:19 * perlawhirl slaps forehead
04:19 perlawhirl that's how i'd do it in perl5... but my perl6 brain reached straight for .succ for some reason
04:20 jdv79 what's the best material to get into the newer async stuff?
04:20 jdv79 are there docs that cover it well yet or just hit roast?
04:21 skids I did some work on the design docs, but not await().
04:21 Xliff Is there a way to extend methods on built-in classes?
04:21 Xliff *sigh* mouth before brain.
04:22 Xliff Is there a way to add modules to built-in classes?
04:22 Xliff ARGH!
04:22 Xliff Is there a way to add methods to built-in classes?
04:22 timotimo yeah, with "augment"
04:22 skids jdv79: https://gist.github.com/jnthn/a56fd4a22e7c43080078 except for some bits and S17 itself.
04:22 jdv79 augment/monkey-typig
04:22 Xliff Whoop!
04:22 * Xliff goes to read.
04:22 timotimo but currently you'll have to call .^compose on every class that's derived from the class you're augmenting
04:23 timotimo because we don't properly propagate the info there yet
04:23 skids At some point I'll have to try to work a full "subclass of Int" out so math works with Int.
04:24 jdv79 skids: yeah.  i remember that.  was looking for a comprehensive view.
04:24 Xliff Er.
04:24 Xliff Why "MONKEY-TYPING"?
04:25 Xliff Wait. Is that an evolution joke?
04:25 jdv79 why the flag or why the name?
04:25 Xliff The name.
04:26 skids https://doc.perl6.org/language/concurrency looks to have been freshened up at least to the point of Supplier.
04:27 timotimo Xliff: because it's usually called "monkeypatching"
04:27 perlawhirl i think it's a play on 'monkey patching'.. and also the joke about monkeys typing for 1000 years would not be able to write shakespeare
04:27 Xliff timotimo, Still confused. But this should not surprise you.
04:27 timotimo heh.
04:28 timotimo dangerous things are supposed to stand out
04:28 skids Xliff: because it's throwing a monkey wrench into the system, ruins optimizations/etc.
04:28 Xliff perlawhirl, that's the direction I was heading... yes.
04:28 geekosaur so all the MONKEY* names mean doing Bad Things
04:28 timotimo that's why we have MONKEY-TYPING-OH-MY-GOD-WATCH-OUT as well as EVAL
04:28 timotimo also MONKEY-GUTS
04:28 Xliff MONKEY-SUCKS?
04:28 Xliff MONKEY-STOOPID?
04:28 perlawhirl Xliff: if you want to use EVAL you have to 'use MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL'
04:28 Xliff (I like that last one)
04:29 skids STOOPID-MONKEY was trademarked :-)
04:29 Xliff LOL
04:29 perlawhirl the monkey things are a playful way to remind you you're doing something potentially dangerous
04:29 geekosaur monkeying around with innards
04:29 timotimo it took me a few months to get that "SEE NO EVAL" was a play on "SEE NO EVIL"
04:29 Xliff skids: And I can guess by what. Great show, though. They are playing close to the Things That Cannot Be Done on TV
04:29 jdv79 dangerous may not be entirely accurate.  unwise/abnormal/suboptimal maybe.
04:30 Xliff s/Cannot/Should Not/
04:30 timotimo well, right
04:30 timotimo that's also why our phasers are upper-cased
04:30 Xliff timotimo, Is that a euphemism for "set to kill"?
04:30 timotimo a bit, yeah
04:30 geekosaur right. augment isn't strictly speaking dangerous, but it kills optimization and has the potential to confuse other modules
04:30 Xliff =)
04:30 timotimo the piece of code after a phaser is called a "blast"
04:30 timotimo because it's either a "BL"ock or "A STatement"
04:31 Xliff =P
04:31 skids Xliff: I have to remind myself to put on my desensitizer so I can enjoy that show :-)
04:31 timotimo we also have "blorst", which is "BLock OR STatement"
04:31 jdv79 its not blorst anymore?
04:31 Xliff Well, at least you were consistent there.
04:31 timotimo both
04:31 Xliff skids: I'm shocked it's still on the air.
04:32 jdv79 oh, you said that already.  i wasn't looking close enough.
04:37 Xliff "It is also possible to extend classes via the augment declarator, but that is considered somewhat antisocial and should not be used for forward declarations."
04:37 Xliff HUH?
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04:47 perlawhirl there's a '.^add_method' i played with once, but jnthn advised i should not use it in normal code. he also advised "If you stick that code in a module, that module will not be able to support precompilation."
04:51 Xliff My first gist -- Y'all have seen it already.
04:51 Xliff https://gist.github.com/Xliff/2907106c84e9eb14d4c0
04:51 Xliff Feel free to comment, though! :)
04:52 Xliff :(
04:52 Xliff Oh well. There Is More Than One Way To Do It.
04:52 Xliff Although I am all for syntactical sugar.
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05:01 skids Xliff: you may want to repost that during the day when more core devs are awake for more feedback.  I could see it making a passable PR.
05:01 skids Actually, though, ditch the "return"
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05:07 skids o/ sleep
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05:42 * Xliff ditches the return, but notices that skids has already skidaddled....
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07:24 mkz_ g
07:24 mkz_ asd [hfaf
07:32 masak mkz_: hi! :)
07:32 masak morning, #perl6
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07:54 moritz \o masak, #perl6
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08:12 sortiz \o #perl6
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08:16 masak o/ sortiz, moritz
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08:16 * masak .oO( o/ /^ <[ms]> or <[it]> ** 2 $/ )
08:18 sortiz m: use NativeCall; class Bar { has Pointer $.p is rw }; my $b = Bar.new; $b.p = Pointer.new(1); dd $b; # So far, so good
08:18 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«Bar $b = Bar.new(p => NativeCall::Types::Pointer.new(1))␤»
08:19 sortiz m: use NativeCall; class Foo is repr('CStruct') { has Pointer $.p is rw }; my $b = Foo.new; $b.p = Pointer.new(1); # Pointer in CStruct is broken
08:19 camelia rakudo-moar 6732d2: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable NativeCall::Types::Pointer␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/xUwGL79wUX line 1␤␤»
08:24 FROGGS hmmmm
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09:00 teatime OK; time to try out Perl6 regexes / grammars, for parsing simple file formats.
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09:05 RabidGravy marnin
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09:08 DrForr teatime: Hey, you might want to look at http://theperlfisher.blogspot.ro/2016/02/from-regular-expressions-to-grammars-pt.html - I'd be happy to take comments/criticisms...
09:09 teatime LOL I literally just clicked on a link to that and then alt+tab's back to here to read your message.
09:09 teatime I read it the other day.
09:10 teatime I appreciate that it's one of few in-depth articles / detailed examples available.
09:10 DrForr Thanks.
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09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: dddfba3 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | / (2 files):
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: Use .dispose when needed
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/dddfba3ae3
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: eb3dc55 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | lib/DBDish/Connection.pm6:
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: Support for .execute method at Connection level
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2:
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: Prepared statements can be expensive or unavailable for some
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: drivers, so Connection.do can skip 'prepare' when no @params given
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: and the driver support direct execution implementing the .execute
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: method in its Connection class.
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: MySQL in particular can't prepare some kinds of statements.
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/eb3dc55fdf
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: 5933cef | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | lib/DBDish/mysql/ (3 files):
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: mysql: Add real prepared statements
09:25 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/5933cef7ec
09:28 RabidGravy sortiz++
09:33 sortiz RabidGravy, thanks. Btw this uses arrays of inline structs, passed by a single Foo*
09:33 RabidGravy I saw your module, good stuff :)
09:44 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: 9ce7f9f | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | META6.json:
09:44 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: Add missing depends to META6.json
09:44 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/9ce7f9f876
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10:09 * sortiz Don't like much the idea that perl6's DBIish depends of an "external" module. Should move NH::Blob to perl6?
10:09 moritz what's NH::Blob?
10:09 sortiz NativeHelpers::Blob
10:10 moritz *shrug* we can have a dependency, just need to remember to add it to R*
10:11 moritz if it becomes widely used, we might want to fold it into NativeCall
10:11 jnthn DBIish depending on other modules feels reasonable enough to me
10:11 jnthn You're never going to get something with "Helpers" in its name into core. :P
10:11 jnthn It's one of those "I didn't know where to put this code" names :)
10:12 jnthn Some of the functionality it has, otoh... :)
10:14 sortiz I expect that all of its functionality will be in NC some day. :-)
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10:15 pmurias is there a way to measure what my NQP program (nqp-js) is using memory for?
10:19 jnthn pmurias: If it's running on Moar, then there's a heap snapshot thing and a very early analysis tool (existing as of yesterday)
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10:20 pmurias jnthn: it's running on Moar. I should just look at the recent commits?
10:21 timotimo all you need is --profile=heap and jnthn/p6-app-moarvm-heapanalyzer off of github
10:21 jnthn pmurias: Yeah, HEAD of Moar, HEAD of Rakudo, and use-setdebugtypename branch of NQP
10:21 jnthn And then what timo said
10:21 jnthn It's very early work, don't expect polish :)
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10:28 pmurias jnthn: if "git diff" doesn't help figure out why nqp-js started eating all memory while compiling itself I'll try this tool
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10:36 sortiz moritz, jnthn, NH::Blob is mainly for workaround current deficiencies of CStruct vs Pointer and Blob/Buf
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10:42 sortiz Btw, DBDish::mysql now uses Buf.allocate, not available in pre 2016-03, should emulate to stay compatible?
10:43 moritz sortiz: that would be nice, yes
10:43 jnthn Yeah
10:43 timotimo it's not necessarily easy enough for people to just grab the version out of rakudo star if they have a not-up-to-date rakudo
10:44 jnthn We should travis modules against a Rakudo release that first supported the Perl 6 version they express a dependency on, really
10:44 masak +1
10:45 jnthn So if you say 6.c we should try it on 2016.01 or so
10:45 gregf_ h - nevrmind :/ problem with my code :|
10:45 gregf_ bah :/ wrong chat
10:57 masak gregf_: of course -- people in here never have problems with their code :P
11:00 perlawhirl the reason my code doesn't work is always the code's fault... never mine
11:07 fireartist hmm, I get a test failure building moar 2016.03 on mingw - is this a known issue?
11:08 fireartist t\04-nativecall\19-function-pointers.c
11:08 fireartist Unhandled exception: Bytecode stream corrupt (missing magic string)
11:09 jnthn o.O
11:09 jnthn No
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11:10 fireartist hmm, I get that same error message when I manually run any test file with moar.exe - so that's maybe not what the test suite is failing on
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11:11 fireartist I tried running > c:\rakudo\bin\moar.exe t\04-nativecall\19-function-pointers.c # should that "work"?
11:11 timotimo no, definitely not
11:11 timotimo you don't run moar.exe on a regular file
11:11 timotimo and those .c files aren't meant to be run via the test harness
11:12 timotimo they are meant to be compiled and then used by the corresponding .t file, which is perl6 source code in that case
11:12 fireartist the .c is my bad - darned cmd.exe's tab-complete
11:13 timotimo in that case, it's still wrong, because moar.exe expects a .moarvm file as argument :)
11:13 fireartist can I run `perl6.bat testfile.t` ?
11:13 timotimo should be possible, yeah
11:13 timotimo you'll probably have to "make install" before that
11:16 fireartist ok, I just did `gmake install`, then `perl6 t\04-nativecall\19-function-pointers.c`, and got the following error...
11:16 fireartist ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling D:\Users\cafranks\checkout\rakudo/t\04-nativecall\19-function-pointers.c
11:16 fireartist Two terms in a row
11:16 fireartist at D:\Users\cafranks\checkout\rakudo/t\04-nativecall\19-function-pointers.c:12
11:17 fireartist ------> DLLEXPORT int<HERE> ForeignFunction()
11:17 jnthn You...just tried to run a .c file with Perl 6? :)
11:17 fireartist oh, damn it! :-)
11:18 fireartist attention to detail, carl!
11:18 pmurias .oO(imagine how impressive it would be if Rakudo detected accidently passed files in different languages)
11:19 fireartist running `gmake test`, I got "t\04-nativecall\19-function-pointers.t ... Dubious, test returned 255 (wstat 65280, 0xff00)"
11:19 fireartist "Failed 1/1 subtests"
11:19 fireartist but running that .t (!) file with the newly built & installed perl6.exe passes all tests ok
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11:20 timotimo how about "gmake t\04-nativecall\19-function-pointers.t"?
11:20 timotimo does that also fail?
11:22 fireartist running `gmake test` now passes all tests - I'll try deleting c:\rakudo and starting from scratch, to see if I can get the error again
11:23 fireartist because, uh, I like making this difficult, or something ;-)
11:30 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: 540cfbd | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | lib/DBDish/mysql/ (2 files):
11:30 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: Don't depend on Buf.allocate, stay 6.c compatible
11:30 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/540cfbd06d
11:30 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: 069c80c | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | .travis.yml:
11:30 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: Test also on 2016.01 in travis-ci
11:30 dalek DBIish/mysql-prepare-t2: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/069c80ca8b
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11:31 fireartist ok, building into an empty c:\rakudo I'm now getting test error "Dubious, test returned 1 (wstat 256,0x100)" for all test files from t\01-sanity\53-transpose.t onwards
11:32 fireartist which is exactly the same problem I had 1 or 2 days ago when I tried building the moar branch
11:33 fireartist running `gmake t\01-sanity\53-transpose.t` returns "gmake: Nothing to be done for 't\01-sanity\53-transpose.t'."
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11:41 RabidGravy yeah that won't work
11:43 RabidGravy you probably want "perl6 t\<blah>"
11:43 fireartist running `perl6.bat -I lib t\01-sanity\53-transpose.t` passes all tests ok
11:43 fireartist but running `gmake test` still gives "Dubious, test returned 1 (wstat 256,0x100)
11:43 fireartist No subtests run
11:44 fireartist am wondering if it's some sort of mingw / environment  issue
11:44 RabidGravy probably
11:44 RabidGravy can't help with windows
11:45 fireartist running `gmake install` then `gmake test`, and all tests pass ok
11:46 fireartist I'm happy that I've got a working perl6, but if anyone wants more info to look into it, just tell me how to provide it
11:47 RabidGravy anyway off out to the farm shop to get vegetables
11:47 fireartist yummy - have fun!
11:47 perlawhirl what are these 「vegetables」 you speak of?!
11:50 perlawhirl fireartist: have you looked at Cmder. it's a nicer console made up from several other projects (namely conemu, clink, plus msysgit and bits from mingw)
11:51 perlawhirl the console alone is pretty worth it. i've tried conemu and clink before and didn't love them, but this is all nicely packaged and makes using the console on windows way less annoying
11:52 perlawhirl plus you can keymap a quake-style dropdown animation, if that kinda thing floats your boat
11:52 fireartist perlawhirl: thanks, I'll look at it - I normally use 'git bash' when I need a command line, but its perl is too old to build rakudo - however something better would be good
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11:53 perlawhirl yeeeah, i think this only comes with 5.8 too, which is a shame. but yes, it comes with bash shell and git. the older version used to defautl to bash, but now i think it defaults to powershell
11:54 perlawhirl still can open a 'cmd' tab and use bash
11:55 perlawhirl yeah just checked, perl 5.8.8... as i think that's what is bundled with msysgit
11:55 fireartist am downloading now - just the kind of distraction I needed for lunch ;-)
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12:13 sortiz moritz, Do you want to review the branch mysql-prepare-t2 before merge it? The PR is ready. :-)
12:14 moritz sortiz: I can review it if you want, but not now; but I'd be fine with you merging it without review too
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12:24 _nadim FYI: latest P6 test don't pass : t/04-nativecall/19-function-pointers.t,  Parse errors: Bad plan.  You planned 1 tests but ran 0
12:25 _nadim latest being c85e036 Give gimme back to the world  (HEAD -> nom..)
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12:27 sortiz moritz, Ok. I'll wait till tomorrow for Skarsnik++ or abraxxa++ comments.
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12:30 gflohr trying to write my first module.  when I run ufo, I get "Dynamic variable %*CUSTOM_LIB not found"
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12:30 gflohr that is on mac os x
12:31 moritz uhm, I fear ufo is rather dead
12:31 moritz gflohr: where did you stumble upon a reference to ufo?
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12:32 lizmat _nadim: is that error repeatable ?
12:32 jnthn ufo isn't really needed any more, 'cus we automatically pre-comp
12:32 gflohr moritz: in the docs for Test::META
12:33 lizmat _nadim: I can't repeat that error here  :-(
12:33 gflohr jnthn: is there some document that gets me started with current tools?
12:34 moritz gflohr: http://doc.perl6.org/language/modules
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12:36 dalek doc: 4322e22 | donaldh++ | doc/Language/functions.pod:
12:36 dalek doc: Fix typo in functions.pod
12:36 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4322e228e2
12:36 gflohr moritz: I have read that. but I got stuck looking for the p5 equivalents of "make test" and "make install".
12:37 mojca I would like to ask for help with a build failure of Panda on OS X 10.6
12:37 mojca https://build.macports.org/builders/buildports-snowleopard-x86_64/builds/41008 (compile -> stdio)
12:37 mojca ==> Testing File::Find
12:37 mojca Unknown option: e
12:37 mojca Unknown option: norc
12:37 moritz gflohr: PERL6LIB=lib prove -e perl6 t/
12:37 moritz gflohr: with p5's prove
12:38 moritz gflohr: and panda install .
12:39 mojca does that look like a broken perl6?
12:39 gflohr moritz: works, thanks!
12:40 moritz gflohr: you're welcome. I've opened https://github.com/jonathanstowe/Test-META/issues/11 and https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/431
12:41 mojca here's the relevant error of the panda build: http://pastebin.com/ULCceDyg
12:41 mojca it's weird because it works on OS X 10.7 and later
12:43 moritz mojca: looks kinda like a long option name is somehow interpreted as a list of short options, and some of them aren't known by the tool that tries to parse them
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12:43 mojca which tool could be the problem?
12:43 moritz no idea
12:43 mojca bash?
12:43 mojca or one of those
12:55 mojca what about the following error?
12:55 mojca ==> Building Linenoise\n===SORRY!===
12:55 mojca Missing or wrong version of dependency '/Users/me/.perl6/sources/A8DEB6B92199DFB3A54F3218FA4BE0FCB99045C0' (from '/Users/me/.perl6/sources/24811C576EF8F85E7672B26955C802BB2FC94675')
12:55 mojca this happend while installing star with pand
12:56 mojca I need to add that I find it a bit annoying that panda puts its temporary files to $PWD/.panda-work rather than perhaps some folder in /tmp/
12:56 Ven joined #perl6
12:57 Ven o/, #perl6.
12:58 Ven I just rebuilt rakudo and pulled panda, but the bootstrapping stage fails trying to compile the Test module, due to EVAL. anyone with that issue?
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12:58 geekosaur mojca, looks to me like the "prove" it is running is not the perl5 one
12:59 mojca geekosaur: you mean the second error in Linenoise?
12:59 mojca or the first one on 10.6?
13:01 geekosaur the first one
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13:06 stmuk_ Ven: I just rakudobrew'd moar and panda on linux and don't see any probs
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13:08 travis-ci Doc build passed. Donald Hunter 'Fix typo in functions.pod'
13:08 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/118218626 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/e9bbef91d198...4322e228e2cd
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13:11 mojca geekosaur: would you be willing to drop some notes on https://trac.macports.org/ticket/50957 or do you prefer your suggestions to stay on IRC?
13:11 mojca I have access to 10.6, but I don't know what to test
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13:12 Ven stmuk_: well, I'm running against nom, so it might very well be my issue :P
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13:20 mojca geekosaur: I see that "prove" on my system comes from /opt/local/bin/prove
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13:21 mojca 10.6 has "prove v2.64, using Test::Harness v2.64 and Perl v5.10.0"
13:22 mojca in /usr/bin, but perl5.22 is listed as dependency of panda
13:22 mojca when is "prove" called?
13:23 geekosaur it's how perl5 and perl6 modules are tested
13:23 geekosaur it's the program that runs the *.t files
13:24 geekosaur so it sounds like the test wants the prove from perl5.22 but is finding the one in /usr/bin from apple's perl5.10 instead of the one in /opt/local/bin from perl5.22
13:24 geekosaur depending on a version does not change $PATH or change what /usr/bin points to
13:25 geekosaur er what files in /usr/bin point to
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13:25 teatime DrForr: still here?
13:26 mojca what could change the path?
13:28 mojca I see some code running prove in lib/Panda/Tester.pm
13:29 mojca but it's not exactly clear to me how it works
13:29 teatime Also, there's a grammars/regexes question embedded in this:  http://paste.debian.net/418535/
13:34 abraxxa sortiz: comments about what?
13:36 mojca geekosaur: thanks for the initial pointers, I'll wait until the package gets build on my old 10.6 VM and then try to look into it
13:36 geekosaur mojca, are you doing this from a Portfile or the shell?
13:36 mojca on the buildbot it's being run from Portfile
13:36 mojca I didn't run it from shell yet
13:37 mojca but I could if it makes any difference
13:37 geekosaur my point there is that the port command controls $PATH
13:37 geekosaur it is NOT the path from your dotfiles
13:38 geekosaur and Portfiles expect that if you want to run a specific version of a command (here, "prove") then you will arrange for that specific version to be run, not trust $PATH
13:39 Xliff Hi. I've boiled down my Match infix:<eqv> to the following. https://gist.github.com/Xliff/2907106c84e9eb14d4c0
13:40 geekosaur in particular you should not have it run "prove" as it does now, nor even "/opt/local/bin/prove", but "/opt/local/bin/prove-5.22"
13:40 geekosaur this may require patching lib/Panda/Tester.pm
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13:42 masak this may require
13:43 masak (•_•)
13:43 masak ( •_•)>⌐■-■
13:43 masak (⌐■_■)
13:43 masak patching lib/Panda/Tester.pm
13:43 geekosaur macports is designed to support multtiple concurrent installed versions of things, without them disturbing each other or any Apple installed versions. patching upstream stuff to support this is normal
13:51 kokobaba joined #perl6
13:56 sortiz abraxxa, see https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/pull/58
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14:11 RabidGravy rarr!
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14:15 dalek specs: bd46864 | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
14:15 dalek specs: unmanaged size. jnthn++
14:15 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/bd468647d3
14:19 [Coke] 2016.03 was released probably before the person asking if was going to be released, I think.
14:19 [Coke] but not by much.
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14:31 dalek specs: d00c44b | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
14:31 dalek specs: notional karma
14:31 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/d00c44bb2a
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14:38 abraxxa sortiz: saw it earlier already but didn't know you want feedback
14:39 abraxxa sortiz: it looks good to me besides the Buf.allocate workaround
14:39 lizmat what workaround ?
14:39 abraxxa as this is needed in multiple places I'd prefer to make it a sub or method, maybe in a base class or role
14:39 abraxxa lizmat: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/pull/58/commits/540cfbd06d8d1e3881147a903a83cd8b6e3893d4
14:40 lizmat why is that needed ??
14:41 lizmat ah, 6,c   yes, ok
14:46 sortiz abraxxa, for every "mayor" change all feedback is appreciated.
14:46 abraxxa sortiz: ok
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14:56 RabidGravy "major" in English, "mayor" is someone who runs a town :)
14:57 RabidGravy alcalde
14:57 RabidGravy I think
14:57 jnthn .oO( "The streets still smell like cabbage. Would not elect again." )
14:58 RabidGravy :) must be Lincolnshire
15:00 sortiz RabidGravy, noted, tnks.
15:01 sortiz enough for today o/ #perl6
15:01 RabidGravy :)
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15:25 dalek ecosystem: 1ad6c0f | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
15:25 dalek ecosystem: Rename META for Test::META
15:25 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/1ad6c0fa55
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15:45 stmuk does "zef search" work?
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15:46 Xliff masak: You there? Or busy?
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16:09 gflohr can I find out inside a method whether it was invoked on a type object or an instance?
16:09 MadcapJake for some reason, on github this rule: https://github.com/MadcapJake/language-perl6fe/blob/master/grammars/perl6fe.cson#L1601-L1620 is being skipped where in Atom it works just fine.
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16:13 gflohr self.WHAT === self
16:13 gflohr is that the correct way?
16:13 hoelzro gflohr: self.defined should do the trick
16:14 hoelzro although a type *could* override the defined method, but that's a jerk move
16:14 hoelzro you could use a multi as well: multi my-method(Class:D:) { #`(on an instance) }
16:14 gflohr hoelzro: thanks! and what about my approach?
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16:15 jnthn gflohr: It works, but it's not very idiomatic
16:15 jnthn gflohr: Also there are with/without blocks
16:16 jnthn with self { ...in here it's the instance... } else { ...in here it's not... }
16:16 jnthn And without to negate it
16:16 * Xliff takes note.
16:16 jnthn without self { ... } is quite a lot shorter than if self === self.WHAT { }
16:17 gflohr jnthn: okay, I'll try that
16:17 RabidGravy and of course if this is a method then it's probably neater to provide a multi with :U: and :D: invocants
16:17 jnthn Yeah, that's also a good option sometimes :)
16:17 MadcapJake i wish without/unless could have else blocks
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16:19 MadcapJake I posted an issue in linguist: https://github.com/github/linguist/issues/2909
16:23 teatime before I continue, do you guys see any way I can reduce the amount of code here, especially any way to reduce duplication of logic etc. between regexes and their methods (e.g., can method TOP somehow not list COMMENT/IFDEF/DEFINE) ?
16:23 teatime https://gist.github.com/anonymous/3f7d6a7d12c98cab0760
16:23 dalek ecosystem: 144895f | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
16:23 dalek ecosystem: Add Audio::Icecast
16:23 dalek ecosystem:
16:23 dalek ecosystem: see https://github.com/jonathanstowe/Audio-Icecast
16:23 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/144895f9f3
16:24 jnthn teatime: Do you have || rather than | for a reason?
16:24 jnthn teatime: If | would work then you could consider protoregexes
16:24 jnthn Which are like an alternation with a single short name
16:25 teatime jnthn: in some cases, because I want to make sure it takes the first if it matches (DEFINE_OBJECT, then try DEFINE_SIMPLE); in others, because only one branch can possibly match, and I figured it'd be faster than |
16:25 teatime jnthn: although, | should work for the DEFINE case... since OBJECT is longer than SIMPLE.
16:25 teatime jnthn: you're saying, so that it can be subclassed, right?
16:26 jnthn But the other thing you can do is [ <directive=.COMMENT> || <directive=.IFDEF> || <directive=.DEFINE> ]* in TOP
16:26 jnthn Then just $<directive> in the actions
16:26 teatime ahh, nice.
16:27 jnthn Here's an example of the proto approach: https://github.com/jnthn/p6-docker-file/blob/master/lib/Docker/File.pm6#L257
16:28 teatime also, just out of curiosity... I plan to eventually use this on a long file with parsefile()
16:28 teatime so I hope that will perform OK.
16:28 teatime in this case I could easily read lines and feed lines to parse(), if necessary
16:28 jnthn Depends how long is long :)
16:30 teatime but I was curious how one would handle "\␤" if using parsefile()... if you were reading lines to feed to parse(), you'd check after each line read if the last char was a \, and if so, read another line and append
16:30 teatime but to deal w/ it in the grammar, I can't figure it out
16:31 teatime jnthn: (long == 2500 lines in this case, but I was hoping parsefile() had more smarts than just "slurp file, call parse" to make it a viable way to parse large files.)
16:31 jnthn It's no smarter than that at present
16:31 teatime ah, alas.
16:32 jnthn otoh, we use a Perl 6 grammar to parse Perl 6 itself, and the CORE.setting (built-ins) come to a 37,000 line file :)
16:33 jnthn So I think 2500 should be OK :)
16:33 * jnthn goes for a keyboard break; back later &
16:34 * teatime wonders if he can resummon him with `fg`
16:40 * RabidGravy wonders what to make next
16:41 Hotkeys Make Inline::Factor so I don't have to
16:41 RabidGravy sounds like maths
16:41 Hotkeys Factor is a concatenative lang
16:41 Hotkeys Like higher level FORTH
16:42 RabidGravy gosh haven't touched forth in years
16:42 Hotkeys It has an unfortunately ungoogleable name
16:42 Hotkeys You have search for like
16:42 Hotkeys Factorlang
16:42 Hotkeys It's annoying
16:42 Hotkeys But whatevs
16:43 Hotkeys http://factorcode.org
16:43 frithnanth joined #perl6
16:43 Hotkeys The language has some interesting libraries
16:44 Hotkeys Like an EBNF parsing vocab
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16:50 masak Xliff: I'm here. and busy ;)
16:51 Xliff No worries.
16:51 masak Xliff: don't wait until I'm fully available, though. just bring it :)
16:51 Xliff LOL
16:51 teatime will <?after "\n"> work if the preceeding newline has already been consumed by a previous submatch?
16:51 Xliff masak: http://pastebin.com/q27qWY82
16:52 Xliff Your lawyers will have to throw down with mine. I will make popcorn and we will watch.  (⌐■_■)
16:53 TimToady teatime: yes, we usually avoid 'after' for that very reason, because it defeats any escaping mechanism you might have
16:54 TimToady 'before' does not suffer this problem
16:54 teatime hrm, I don't completely understand.
16:55 teatime oh, wait, maybe I do
16:55 teatime <after "\n"> would match even the preceeding was \␤
16:56 TimToady right
16:56 teatime k, thanks.
16:57 TimToady and it does you no good to check add a check for \ to the 'after', because what if they said \\ before that, or \\\, or \\\\
16:57 teatime TimToady: any thoughts on how one would implement C-like "\␤" to a grammar, assuming one wanted to parsefile() and not read lines manually?
16:57 TimToady basically, switching from left-to-right parsing to right-to-left parsing doesn't work out
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16:58 teatime assuming most things can break across lines as if \n were any other whitespace, but where some things (preprocessor directives) are required to start on a new line.
16:58 TimToady newline is just like any other character, you just skip a . after
16:59 TimToady you can always limit the rules that recognize line beginning things with ^^
16:59 TimToady or however you say that in English
16:59 TimToady there's plenty of prior art for all this in the Perl 6 grammar
16:59 teatime oh, I didn't realize that was re-definable
17:00 teatime kk, thanks again.
17:01 TimToady so, for instance, token my-directive { ^^ '#stuff' } will only match #stuff at the beginning of a line
17:02 TimToady pod directives work this way in the p6 grammar
17:02 teatime oh, that's exactly what I wanted when i was asking about <after "\n">
17:04 TimToady in that case, just make sure you don't call <my-directive> where you don't want to match it because it's a line continuation
17:05 TimToady (if you want the line escape to take precedence)
17:05 TimToady ((maybe you don't))
17:06 TimToady anyway, newlines are only a little bit special, mostly you can just treat them as a particular kind of whitespace
17:06 TimToady if you need to not match a newline, \N is useful, so \N* gets you the rest of the current line, for instance
17:07 TimToady but . doesn't care (unlike in many other regex languages, including p5's)
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17:08 TimToady the modal flags /m and /s in p5 were replaced by explicitly different matchers in p6
17:09 TimToady so we distiguish ^ from ^^ and $ from $$, as well as \n vs \N vs .
17:10 Xliff So no need for the p5 /o modifier, now?
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17:38 masak Xliff: ;)
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17:49 TimToady m: /foo/m
17:49 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/gVcXqa2xdn␤Unsupported use of /m; in Perl 6 please use ^^ and $$ anchors␤at /tmp/gVcXqa2xdn:1␤------> 3/foo/m7⏏5<EOL>␤»
17:49 TimToady m: /foo/o
17:49 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/b7SmZjP1bx␤Missing required term after infix␤at /tmp/b7SmZjP1bx:1␤------> 3/foo/o7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        prefix␤        term␤»
17:49 TimToady heh, we don't even check for that one...
17:50 perlpilot except the message should say something like "What?!?  You shouldn't even do that in Perl 5!  Cut it out!"
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18:17 AlexDaniel I've added some “needs writing” tags: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22needs+writing%22
18:22 AlexDaniel m: enum Foo << :Bar(1) Baz >>
18:22 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: ( no output )
18:22 AlexDaniel star: enum Foo << :Bar(1) Baz >>
18:22 camelia star-m 2016.01: ( no output )
18:24 AlexDaniel m: enum Animal (Cat => 25, Dog)
18:24 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/_AyQxLnULR␤Undeclared name:␤    Dog used at line 1␤␤»
18:28 moritz you need to quote it
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18:30 AlexDaniel moritz: I know. That's from my old bug report, just wanted to see the error message
18:30 dvinciguerra_ joined #perl6
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18:31 AlexDaniel “What is Radudo? Isn't it Rakudo?” – sometimes bug reports make me smile :)
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18:41 jdv79 m: my $a = <:a b c>; say "{($a[0].substr: 1), $a[1..*]}" # ok
18:41 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
18:41 jdv79 m: my $a = <:a b c>; say qq{{($a[0].substr: 1), $a[1..*]}} # wut
18:41 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«(:a.substr: 1), b c␤»
18:42 jdv79 so qq() isn't the same as ""?
18:43 jdv79 m: my $a = <:a b c>; say qq[{($a[0].substr: 1), $a[1..*]}]
18:43 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
18:43 jdv79 i don't get it
18:43 jdv79 who does #2 work for?!
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18:44 Skarsnik I think it's because you use { for qq
18:44 Skarsnik well it think you use {{ probably
18:46 jdv79 what does {{ mean?
18:49 MadcapJake jdv79: you can't use parentheses for quotes because it's the routine call postcircumfix operator
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18:50 jdv79 ok.   i didn't in the real code.  just used it to indicate qq as a func.
18:51 jdv79 in case there was any confusion.  idk.
18:51 MadcapJake {{ is just one of many ways you can assemble a quote construct, you can use [[]], {{}}, "", «», and that half-width corner thing (don't remember the unicode for it)
18:51 MadcapJake and tons more!
18:51 * masak .oO( isn't it Rakudo... don't you think? a little tooooo Rakudo... and yeah I really do think )
18:52 masak m: say "" ~~ /^/
18:52 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«「」␤»
18:52 masak MadcapJake: 「」 :P
18:52 MadcapJake .u 「
18:52 yoleaux U+FF62 HALFWIDTH LEFT CORNER BRACKET [Ps] (「)
18:53 MadcapJake masak: nice way of finding that :P what does `/^/` mean?
18:53 skids .oO(better than a halfwit corner bracket)
18:53 jdv79 still doesn't make sense
18:54 MadcapJake jdv79: what doesn't?
18:54 masak MadcapJake: "regex with a beginning-of-string anchor" (because the empty regex is illegal)
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18:54 MadcapJake masak: oh neat! I always wondered how to do that without getting an empty regex error
18:55 perlpilot we don't have Regex::Explain yet?
18:55 masak m: say "" ~~ /""/ # also works
18:55 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«「」␤»
18:55 masak m: say "" ~~ /<?>/ # ditto
18:55 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«「」␤»
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18:55 jdv79 m: my $a = <:a b c>; say qq{123 {($a[0].substr: 1), $a[1..*]} 456}
18:55 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«123 {(:a.substr: 1), b c} 456␤»
18:56 masak m: say "" ~~ /arglebargle ** 0/ # works too, but perhaps confusing
18:56 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
18:56 masak hm :)
18:56 jdv79 its not {{ causing that to not interp
18:56 masak m: say "" ~~ /"arglebargle" ** 0/ # works too, but perhaps confusing
18:56 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«「」␤»
18:56 masak there we go.
18:56 masak we still have no warning for that word thing?
18:56 masak maybe we did in a previous regex engine...
18:57 masak m: say "arglebargl" ~~ /arglebargle ** 0/
18:57 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«「arglebargl」␤»
18:59 MadcapJake masak: could be useful if you want to dynamically set the ** RH and allow for empty strings
18:59 MadcapJake that seems a bit quirky :P
18:59 TimToady the ** is only modifying the e
19:01 MadcapJake ohhhh
19:01 MadcapJake you'd have to wrap it in some parens or angle brackets?
19:01 masak I was commenting on the lack of warning on that
19:01 masak (because it's code that's wrong but looks kinda right)
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19:08 masak MadcapJake: or quotes, like a did above.
19:08 masak but yeah, [] and () work too, of course. () captures.
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19:12 RabidGravy I could have sworn that I started writing a thing to pick the bits out of an MPC1000 PGM file
19:12 RabidGravy but I just can't find it
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19:38 Ven mm, is permutations not lazy? D:
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19:52 AlexDaniel m: say <a b c>.permutations.is-lazy
19:52 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«False␤»
19:54 hakonhagland Hi I have problems with installing panda on Ubuntu 15.10: http://stackoverflow.com/q/36201236/2173773
19:54 AlexDaniel Ven: this does not look right
19:55 Ven hehe :
19:55 AlexDaniel Ven: can you file a bug report?
19:55 skids m: say <a b c>.permutations.WHAT # good indication it is likely to be lazy
19:55 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«(Seq)␤»
19:55 AlexDaniel MadcapJake: so what happened with your bug reporting thing, by the way?
19:58 AlexDaniel m: say (^100000).permutations[0]; say now - BEGIN now
19:58 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 8…»
19:58 hoelzro hakonhagland: I would recommend not using rakudo from apt
19:59 AlexDaniel m: (^100000).permutations[0]; say now - BEGIN now
19:59 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«0.845039041␤»
19:59 AlexDaniel m: (^100000).permutations[1000]; say now - BEGIN now
19:59 hoelzro I recommend that you build Rakudo from a release (such as 2016.03, which came out yesterday), or straight from Git
19:59 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
19:59 AlexDaniel hoelzro: why?
19:59 AlexDaniel Ven: ok, it looks lazy
19:59 hoelzro AlexDaniel: looking at that post, it's 2014.07
19:59 hoelzro on *parrot*
19:59 AlexDaniel skids: but why Seq's are not lazy?
20:00 AlexDaniel ah dammit
20:00 vendethiel AlexDaniel: mmmh
20:00 vendethiel m: (^100000).permutations.elems.say; say now - BEGIN now
20:00 AlexDaniel hoelzro: well, there's 2016.02 in debian unstable
20:00 hoelzro ah, that's good
20:00 vendethiel seems like .elems on a permutations is not lazy
20:00 hoelzro AlexDaniel: what about ubuntu, though?
20:01 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:01 AlexDaniel hoelzro: it is going to take some time to propagate to ubuntu…
20:01 skids It's very likely .elems on a permutation is not lazy.  Though the .elems on the range should be.
20:01 vendethiel AlexDaniel: could we calculate the list of permutations beforehand?
20:02 vendethiel there's probably a formula that doesn't involve generating 'em :P
20:02 vendethiel (I'm willing to write the iterator subclass if that sounds sound to people)
20:02 skids Once you know the .elems of the original list, you should be able to reckon that, yes.
20:02 skids nCk=n!/k!(n-k)!
20:02 AlexDaniel hoelzro: so you are right. But there's nothing wrong with getting rakudo from repository, it's just that most people are not on unstable/testing and it will take some time for things to appear in stable :)
20:03 hoelzro right, there's nothing wrong in principle, just with the current state of things =)
20:03 AlexDaniel hoelzro: by the way, if I got that right, Debian stable will get v6.d without ever having v6.c
20:03 skids Or some subset of that formula.
20:03 RabidGravy the problem with installing panda there is due to PERL5LIB or PERLLIB being set in the environment
20:04 vendethiel skids: what's n?
20:04 RabidGravy dunno why
20:04 AlexDaniel hoelzro: assuming that we ship v6.d according to the plan :)
20:04 hoelzro ;)
20:04 pdcawley joined #perl6
20:05 AlexDaniel please no more of this “when?” “Diwali!” “but which Diwali?”
20:06 cdg joined #perl6
20:06 hakonhagland \msg RabidGravy and hoelzro: Thanks for the reply. What's the problem with PERL5LIB being set?
20:06 [Coke] 6.d isn't going to be shipped on 11/11
20:07 AlexDaniel m: say +permutations(1000000)
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20:07 RabidGravy hakonhagland, it causes the problem you are seeing
20:07 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:07 MadcapJake AlexDaniel: I kind of god sidetracked :P I just need to email webmaster@perl.org, iirc
20:07 MadcapJake s/god/got/ xD
20:07 RabidGravy I've never experienced the problem so never investigated further
20:08 AlexDaniel [Coke]: then when?
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20:09 AlexDaniel 10/30?
20:09 [Coke] AlexDaniel: deliberately not on Diwali actual.
20:09 AlexDaniel hmm
20:09 hankache Good evening #perl6
20:09 [Coke] "when it's good and ready".
20:11 hakonhagland RabidGravy: I tried to install panda without PERL5LIB: "PERL5LIB= perl6 bootstrap.pl" but got another error
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20:13 AlexDaniel [Coke]: Well, strategically it is a good idea to ship it before 2017
20:13 AlexDaniel [Coke]: simply because of debian
20:13 hakonhagland RabidGravy: I will update the question on stackoverflow.com with the new error message. Thanks for the help!
20:14 nine -∞ on meeting arbitrary dead lines
20:16 AlexDaniel it's not arbitrary. It's what people will get for the next few years. Very important deadline to keep in mind
20:16 hoelzro what marks the point where 6.d (the language) is released and work on 6.e starts? just when TimToady feels that the number of changes since 6.c is significant enough?
20:17 nine It's what a few people will get easily for the next few years. They can still get something else without much effort. The vast majority of people is unaffected.
20:17 RabidGravy also it's something that module authors have to work toward
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20:18 AlexDaniel nine: I think that you underestimate the number of people that use debian or debain-based distros
20:18 dalek joined #perl6
20:19 nine AlexDaniel: how many Perl 6 users _do_ use Debian _stable_ or a distro based on Debian stable?
20:19 [Coke] hoelzro: I would say it's up to the core developers, not just tt
20:19 moritz nine: I do
20:19 AlexDaniel nine: zero because debian stable has rakudo 2014.07
20:20 nine moritz: and you already discovered a way to get a more up to date rakudo ;)
20:20 AlexDaniel nine: we can keep it that way but it is not a good idea for adoption
20:20 hoelzro *nod*
20:20 RabidGravy I'm a bit disappointed that fedora is stuck on 2015-11
20:20 nine And rushing again to meet some release date will be good for adoption?
20:21 AlexDaniel nine: having v6.d in debian stable is a good idea, yes
20:21 nine A _rushed_ 6.d?
20:22 MadcapJake I wonder if it makes sense to use xdg-app to install rakudo.
20:22 AlexDaniel nine: rushing – not so much. But as far as I can see 2016 is a year of speeding things up, so there's not so much to rush, I guess. At least right now it looks good
20:22 perlpilot Why the fuss about 6.d?  Does anyone even know what that means?
20:22 nine 6.d will be the point where we will have 2 language versions for the first time ever. We don't even have the infrastructure for that in place yet and no one is working on that.
20:23 RabidGravy and there's a lot of stuff to be written before then
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20:25 AlexDaniel nine: You're right. Having 6.c in debian stable will get us lots of testers who will be using v6.c, so that we can get the infrastructure right for v6.e…
20:26 jnthn There'll be 6.c.1, etc. so folks can depend on the numerous fixes/improvements in their META.info. If we were to do a 6.c.1 based on current roast then it'd not need any infrastructure. :)
20:27 jnthn Besides making us be OK about things that ask for 6.c.1.
20:35 dalek doc: 1e8490e | (Mathieu Gagnon)++ | doc/Language/5to6-perl (2 files):
20:35 dalek doc: Remove code formats from code blocks
20:35 dalek doc:
20:35 dalek doc: Also change the 5to6-perlfunc#sprintf code blocks to table;
20:35 dalek doc: since it was not code, syntax highlighting made it look weird.
20:35 dalek doc:
20:35 dalek doc: Ref:
20:35 dalek doc: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3bff9ad413b38245a61d78300225c8df78de8dec
20:35 dalek doc: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b9434b1c3d5071b308b9bd9e347a642372874834
20:35 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1e8490e2cd
20:35 MadcapJake looks like the Perl 6 variable issue on github is because it uses a different regex engine 😢
20:38 AlexDaniel m: permutations(-1)
20:38 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '$n'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/VepB2XRWH5 line 1␤␤»
20:40 MadcapJake anyone here know how to capture unicode in PCRE? Would this work: « [\x21-\x7E] »
20:41 MadcapJake or would this be better: « [\x00-\x7F] »
20:43 MadcapJake wait nevermind, I might not even need this :P
20:43 AlexDaniel m: say combinations(4, 0.5)
20:43 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«(())␤»
20:43 AlexDaniel m: say combinations(4, 0.9)
20:43 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«(())␤»
20:43 AlexDaniel m: say combinations(4, 1.9)
20:43 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«This type cannot unbox to a native integer␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/P7DraldA7p line 1␤␤»
20:43 AlexDaniel ?
20:43 AlexDaniel like if 0.5 was just fine? :)
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20:44 skids vendethiel: n is the size of the set, k is the size of the result set (that formula is for combinations without replacement IIRC but all those formulas tend to end up unintuitively close to each other)
20:44 vendethiel uuuuh
20:45 AlexDaniel m: .say for combinations(-999999999999999999, 2)
20:45 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: ( no output )
20:45 AlexDaniel m: .say for combinations(-9999999999999999999, 2)[^10]
20:45 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«(0 1)␤(0 2)␤(0 3)␤(0 4)␤(0 5)␤(0 6)␤(0 7)␤(0 8)␤(0 9)␤(0 10)␤»
20:45 pmurias jnthn: it's really interesting that it's much faster for nqp-js to write a bunch of strings to a file and slurp then back in than it's to concatenate them
20:47 skids http://www.u.arizona.edu/~kuchi/Courses/MAT167/Files/LH_LEC.0320.Prob.Perms.pdf (permutations is k! times that formula, or nPk = n!/(n-k)!)
20:47 jnthn pmurias: Curious indeed...any idea why? :)
20:48 pmurias running out of memory and swapping
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20:51 skids m: (combinations(-999999999999999999, 2).map({$_})[^10]).say
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«(Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil)␤»
20:51 AlexDaniel m: (combinations(-9999999999999999999999, 2).map({$_})[^10]).say
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«Cannot unbox 74 bit wide bigint into native integer␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/u_sPGjZ1_E line 1␤␤»
20:51 AlexDaniel m: (combinations(-99999999999999999999, 2).map({$_})[^10]).say
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«Cannot unbox 67 bit wide bigint into native integer␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/3Jr7sUB9uN line 1␤␤»
20:51 AlexDaniel m: (combinations(-999999999999999999, 2).map({$_})[^10]).say
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«(Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil)␤»
20:51 AlexDaniel m: (combinations(-9999999999999999999, 2).map({$_})[^10]).say
20:52 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«((0 1) (0 2) (0 3) (0 4) (0 5) (0 6) (0 7) (0 8) (0 9) (0 10))␤»
20:52 AlexDaniel there we go
20:55 Xliff .U 2309
20:55 yoleaux U+2309 RIGHT CEILING [Pe] (⌉)
21:01 Xliff The problem with Debian based installations is either:
21:02 Xliff 1) the module include path is wrong in the perl6 bin
21:02 Xliff 2) The package maintainer has installed modules going into the wrong directory.
21:02 Xliff That was my introduction to perl6. Fortunately there was rakudobrew and #perl6.
21:03 pmurias jnthn: not sure why it happens, seems to be a problem only when using a lot of largish strings
21:04 teatime Xliff: it seems likely that every distro's packages will be too old to be useful, anyway
21:04 teatime and rakudobrew was painless
21:05 MadcapJake AlexDaniel: I got an email back from the webmaster (wrt to issue submitter email), guess what he suggested?
21:06 AlexDaniel MadcapJake: to use github? :)
21:06 Xliff Is this the way to get rakudobrew to build from the latest commits to head: "rakudobrew build moar head"
21:06 MadcapJake Bingo!
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21:07 AlexDaniel .oO( again, why are we stuck with RT? Hmm… )
21:08 MadcapJake He also asked why I need an email address, maybe I don't understand this well enough, if I want to send emails, I either need to setup my own SMTP server or use someone else's which means I'll need an email account there, right?
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21:09 MadcapJake My plan was, using the SMTP Perl 6 module, access the perl.org SMTP server, and send emails as sixbug@perl.org and cc the user's email if they added theirs in the email field.  Is that reasonable or am I missing something here?
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21:12 MadcapJake anyone have some thoughts on this?
21:13 MadcapJake .seen ZoffixW
21:13 yoleaux I saw ZoffixW 22 Mar 2016 13:49Z in #perl6: <ZoffixW> .tell lizmat if you're looking for content for the next Weekly, you could post the MeetUp for March 30th Toronto Perl Mongers. I'll be giving a "Wow, Perl 6!" talk that will go over the cool bits of Perl 6: http://www.meetup.com/Toronto-Perl-Mongers/events/228600742/
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21:18 Xliff Is anyone else disturbed that "build moar head" is syntax for rakudobrew?
21:19 masak ...no?
21:19 masak we do need to build more heads. we're running short on heads.
21:19 * masak .oO( it's an arms race )
21:20 Xliff MadcapJake: If you don't plan on receiving mail sent to that address, then no. You should not need an account. You will need a properly configured mail server to allow whatever machine you are sending from to relay.
21:20 MadcapJake Xliff: but I want to allow the user to submit anonymously.
21:20 Xliff masak: Not the "head" that I was thinking of... but I'll allow it.
21:20 * Xliff attempts to extract mind from gutter...
21:21 perlpilot Xliff: the gutter is fine sometimes as long as you don't get stuck there :)
21:21 Xliff MadcapJake: By far the easiest thing to do is to have an account on the SMTP server itself.
21:21 Xliff perlpilot, then I'm totally fucked.
21:21 MadcapJake Xliff: can I avoid having a properly configured email server and just use perl.org's :) that's my goal, is it possible?
21:21 Xliff 8-)
21:22 Xliff MadcapJake, If you plan on relaying through perl.org, then you will need the admin of perl.org to set that up for you.
21:22 MadcapJake Xliff: there's already an SMTP module for perl 6 so I was just going to use that to login to perl.org's email server and send an email via sixbug@perl.org
21:22 MadcapJake Xliff: ok that's what I thought, I'm in the midst of replying to the admin right now.
21:22 Xliff You just can't point an SMTP client at a server and send mail willy nilly.
21:23 perlpilot .oO( not anymore ... )
21:23 Xliff Used to be nobody cared. Then the spammers came along and all of the open relays died.
21:23 kmwallio can anyone think of a reason why a Perl 6 test wouldn't exit cleanly when ran remotely?
21:23 kmwallio not a brain teaser...
21:24 kmwallio I'm trying to call xclip using shell and q:x, and it runs fine locally
21:24 Xliff Was that issue fixed with "rakudobrew look" hanging any subsequent call to the perl6 shell until the rakudobrew session was terminated?
21:24 MadcapJake Xliff: ok that's what I thought, so I'll need to get some login details, I'm a little irked that the reply so far seems like "I don't really want to deal with this right now" but hopefully I'll get a better reply after my response.
21:24 masak m: say Regex ~~ Method
21:24 camelia rakudo-moar 8df1a6: OUTPUT«True␤»
21:25 Xliff Who is running perl.org, these days?
21:25 MadcapJake Xliff: someone at the other end of webmaster@perl.org is named Robert :P
21:25 perlpilot "rakudobrew look"?  ITYM "panda look" as I don't think rakudobrew has a "look" command
21:26 Xliff Develooper LLC??
21:26 Xliff perlpilot, Whoops! You are correct sir. It was "panda look".
21:27 Xliff If I do a "panda look" and in another shell try and execute "perl6" in shell mode, the perl6 process would hang until the panda session had finished.
21:30 kmwallio that might be part of it, but it looks like travis is running prove -v -r --exec=perl6 t/
21:30 kmwallio I did have a panda installdeps . earlier
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21:52 RabidGravy ooh, the fedora package of icecast doesn't create the /var/run/icecast so it doesn't create a pid file
21:53 timotimo so it uses systemd?
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21:59 RabidGravy well it's managed by systemctl
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22:02 moritz and systemctl is a part of systemd
22:04 RabidGravy yes
22:05 teatime Can you say (in grammar)  proto token Escape { 「」
22:05 teatime whoops, hole on a sec
22:06 RabidGravy anyway, create the directory "systemctl restart icecast" and lo! the .pid file appears and I can tell monit about it
22:08 teatime Can you say (in grammar)  proto token Escape { 「\」 * }; token Escape:sym<"> { <sym> };   -- and then in actions, do something like this: --  method Escape:sym ($/) { make $<sym> }
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22:25 hakonhagland /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER hakonhagland ibduavjxxfey
22:26 TEttinger ibduavjxxfey is an interesting choice.
22:26 hakonhagland Seems like I added a space in front of \msg
22:28 teatime heh
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23:03 * masak watches Ovid's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR9UdvxMAbo and thinks "wow, this Perl 6 thing is *great*"
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23:26 masak 'night, #perl6
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