Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-04-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 AlexDaniel m: :(42) .say
00:00 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«(Int $ where { ... })␤»
00:01 sortiz bbrk, till 13 without problems, need more?
00:02 bbkr sortiz: no, thanks for testing. looks like it is something OS X specific.
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00:05 bbkr sortiz: got this bug when I was trying to fix Net::ZMQ NativeCall warnings. so I just have to fix everything at once to avoid having multiple invalid signatures that leads to this compile time lock. that's motivation :)
00:06 sortiz :P
00:06 leobut joined #perl6
00:07 sortiz bbkr, yep working with NC requires, sometime, lots of motivation ;-)
00:08 Skarsnik true x)
00:08 sortiz \o Skarsnik!
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00:15 AlexDaniel m: {[~] |S/' '/_/.comb(/\D/)».&{(.lc,.uc​).pick},|.comb(/\d/)}(‘pa55 w0rd’).say
00:15 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«pA_WRD550␤»
00:15 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: ↑
00:16 Xliff psch, thanks!
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00:26 AlexDaniel m: say [~|] ‘_’, ‘w’ # what's that?
00:26 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«␤»
00:27 diakopter hunh
00:28 skids joined #perl6
00:28 AlexDaniel m: say [~|] ‘x’, ‘a’;
00:28 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«y␤»
00:29 sortiz m:  say (0x5f +| 0x7f).base(16)
00:29 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«7F␤»
00:29 _nadim joined #perl6
00:29 AlexDaniel so it is just a stringy or?
00:30 sortiz Yep
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00:35 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: that's kinda it, I'm out of ideas now :)
00:36 AlexDaniel m: $_ = ‘hello world’; say S:s/o w/ow/
00:36 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«helloworld␤»
00:36 AlexDaniel m: $_ = ‘hello world’; say S:s/ /_/
00:36 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/DcUqHw5_zv␤Null regex not allowed␤at /tmp/DcUqHw5_zv:1␤------> 3$_ = ‘hello world’; say S:s/ 7⏏5/_/␤»
00:36 AlexDaniel is it a bug?
00:37 AlexDaniel it is definitely not what I meant, but is there any reason for this behavior?
00:37 AlexDaniel m: $_ = ‘hello world’; say S:s/o /o/
00:37 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«helloworld␤»
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00:41 sortiz m: $_ = ‘hello world’; say S:s/' '/_/ # For the record only
00:41 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«Cannot unbox a type object␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/jXKGp7N7bp line 1␤␤»
00:42 AlexDaniel sortiz: well, you don't need :s for that
00:43 sortiz AlexDaniel, I know
00:43 AlexDaniel m: $_ = ‘hello world’; say Ss/o /o/
00:43 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«helloworld␤»
00:43 Hotkeys AlexDaniel: what the heck is this |S/' '/_/
00:43 Hotkeys what is capital S///
00:44 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: just like s but not in-place
00:44 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: | is just to slip it, so that [~] works
00:44 Hotkeys so you can .method on S///
00:44 Hotkeys for the record I did try to do that, but it was with s///
00:44 Hotkeys didn't know S/// existed
00:45 AlexDaniel m: $_ = ‘hello world’; S/hello/noo/; say $_
00:45 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«hello world␤»
00:45 AlexDaniel m: $_ = ‘hello world’; s/hello/noo/; say $_
00:45 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«noo world␤»
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00:45 sortiz Hotkeys, S is the 'general' form, like Q for quotes.
00:45 _nadim joined #perl6
00:45 Hotkeys wtb documentation
00:45 AlexDaniel sortiz: how do you make S act like s?
00:47 sortiz AlexDaniel, I don't remember the details now. :(
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00:48 Hotkeys m: {[~] |S/' '/_/.comb(/\D/)».&{(.lc,.uc)​.pick},|.comb(/\d/)}("hello there jim").say
00:48 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«hELlo_theRe JIm␤»
00:48 Hotkeys m: {[~] |TR/' '/_/.comb(/\D/)».&{(.lc,.uc)​.pick},|.comb(/\d/)}("hello there jim").say
00:49 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/yjpza1Rhp_␤Undeclared names:␤    TR used at line 1␤    _ used at line 1␤␤»
00:49 Hotkeys m: {[~] |T/' '/_/.comb(/\D/)».&{(.lc,.uc)​.pick},|.comb(/\d/)}("hello there jim").say
00:49 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/fCeTxXI8NZ␤Undeclared names:␤    T used at line 1␤    _ used at line 1␤␤»
00:49 Hotkeys m: {[~] |S:g/' '/_/.comb(/\D/)».&{(.lc,.uc)​.pick},|.comb(/\d/)}("hello there jim").say
00:49 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«HEllO_therE_jIm␤»
00:49 Hotkeys need an extra 2 bytes for global
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00:56 * gtodd still wants to make a stab at a perl6  version of some of these scripts for reading large files http://stackoverflow.com/q/36201884/2019415
00:57 gtodd particularly like the Stream::Reader CPAN module
00:58 Ben_Goldberg joined #perl6
00:58 gtodd it was very easy to write a perl6 script that worked with a small file by converting the string to a list (.comb) ... but this doesn't work when the string a a billion characters long
00:59 silug joined #perl6
00:59 * BenGoldberg forgets, is .comb lazy?
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01:07 gtodd I'm not sure the string was very small ... I think on a bigger string it was waiting or whatever it does when the list is huge
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01:09 gtodd so .... maybe that means it is :)
01:17 perlawhirl hrmph
01:17 perlawhirl .seen sortiz
01:17 yoleaux I saw sortiz 00:47Z in #perl6: <sortiz> AlexDaniel, I don't remember the details now. :(
01:19 perlawhirl anyone online who has admin access to the ecosystem
01:19 sortiz perlawhirl, hi
01:20 sortiz Can I help you?
01:21 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: right! I forgot about global
01:21 perlawhirl umm, i'm building rakudo on a new box and i can't install my module, wig
01:21 perlawhirl the update.log looks ok
01:22 perlawhirl and the modules before and after mine are in projects.json, but not mine :~(
01:22 perlawhirl i ran panda update to no avail
01:22 sortiz Let me see...
01:23 AlexDaniel m: $_ = ‘hello world’; s/o/X/; say $_
01:23 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«hellX world␤»
01:23 AlexDaniel m: $_ = ‘hello world’; sg/o/X/; say $_
01:23 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/innHOYa2gH␤Missing required term after infix␤at /tmp/innHOYa2gH:1␤------> 3$_ = ‘hello world’; sg/o/X/7⏏5; say $_␤    expecting any of:␤        prefix␤        term␤»
01:23 AlexDaniel m: $_ = ‘hello world’; ss/o/X/; say $_
01:23 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«hellX world␤»
01:23 AlexDaniel m: $_ = ‘hello world’; ss/o /X/; say $_
01:23 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«hellXworld␤»
01:24 AlexDaniel ss is fine but sg is not, hmm…
01:24 AlexDaniel why?
01:24 perlawhirl sortiz: i manually deleted my projects.json file and ran update
01:24 perlawhirl now it's there
01:24 perlawhirl i dunno *shrug*
01:25 perlawhirl it was a fresh install so dunno what went wrong
01:25 sortiz umm, well, back to work.
01:26 perlawhirl yep :D
01:27 perlawhirl weird that panda update didn't resolve it? how does it check for updates? does it do a checksum or just check the last module added?
01:27 perlawhirl i might remove a project in the middle of the projects.json and test it
01:27 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: how can I run your .flat.sort.rotor example?
01:27 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: you say that it takes a list of lists, but
01:28 AlexDaniel m: {$^a.flat.sort.rotor($a[0])}( ((-36, -18, 0), (8, 99, 112), (14, 6, -12)) ).say
01:28 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«Cannot have elems < 1, did you mean to specify a Pair with => -36?␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/vhaLbwIQHi line 1␤␤»
01:29 sortiz perlawhirl, panda guts are a mystery to me, sorry.
01:30 perlawhirl hah, ok well i did that test and it updated just fine, so i'm perplexed, but will leave alone... just another mystery of the universe
01:31 Hotkeys AlexDaniel: oops
01:31 Hotkeys seems I forgot a +
01:31 Hotkeys m: {$^a.flat.sort.rotor($a[0])}(((-36, -18, 0), (8, 99, 112), (14, 6, -12))).say
01:31 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«Cannot have elems < 1, did you mean to specify a Pair with => -36?␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Wx1kWp7glB line 1␤␤»
01:31 Hotkeys m: {$^a.flat.sort.rotor(+$a[0])}(((-36, -18, 0), (8, 99, 112), (14, 6, -12))).say
01:31 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«((-36 -18 -12) (0 6 8) (14 99 112))␤»
01:34 Hotkeys m: {.flat.sort.rotor(+.[0])}(((-36, -18, 0), (8, 99, 112), (14, 6, -12))).say
01:34 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«((-36 -18 -12) (0 6 8) (14 99 112))␤»
01:34 Hotkeys nice
01:34 AlexDaniel right
01:35 Hotkeys that's as short as I can see to get it
01:35 Hotkeys Any ideas for shortening?
01:36 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: are you kidding me? :)
01:37 Hotkeys is that a "yes obviously I can shorten it" or "no, that's obviously the shortest it can get"
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01:37 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: no, it's the shortest it can get
01:37 Hotkeys alright
01:38 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: one of the ideas is to replace flat with something like |«| or something…
01:38 Hotkeys Yeah
01:38 Hotkeys I actually tried that lol
01:38 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: but I can't get that to work
01:38 Hotkeys http://i.imgur.com/WZ96Ovu.png
01:41 Hotkeys I also tried hoping for deepsort (see: deepmap) but that isn't a thing
01:41 AlexDaniel heh, deepsort
01:41 Hotkeys :)
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01:50 Herby_ Evening, everyone!
01:50 Herby_ \o
01:53 Herby_ o/
01:56 skids o~
01:57 AlexDaniel @🐛@
01:57 Herby_ \o/
01:57 AlexDaniel ↑ found that somewhere in the log. Hilarious
01:57 skids doesn't render here.
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01:59 AlexDaniel .u 🐛
01:59 yoleaux U+1F41B BUG [So] (🐛)
01:59 AlexDaniel skids: well, it was supposed to look like camelia, but: https://files.progarm.org/2016​-04-01-045919_223x49_scrot.png
02:02 Hotkeys here
02:03 Hotkeys m: sub deepsort (@a) {my @t; @a.deepmap({@t.push: $_}); @t.=sort; @a.deepmap({@t.shift})}; say deepsort [[3, [9, [2, 6], 7], [0, 1, [[[-13, 4], 5], 10], 17, -3], -42], 8]
02:03 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«[[-42 [-13 [-3 0] 1] [2 3 [[[4 5] 6] 7] 8 9] 10] 17]␤»
02:03 Hotkeys :D
02:04 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: I'm more interested in shortening the password thingy
02:04 Hotkeys I wasn't doing any shortening in deepsort :p
02:04 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: if I had a bit more brains maybe I could have shortened it by a character or two
02:04 Hotkeys just having fun
02:04 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: just saying :)
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02:59 MadcapJake what does this error mean: «Cannot look up attributes in a type object»?
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03:00 sortiz MadcapJake, your method is not receiving an instance, i.e. self is undefined
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03:03 MadcapJake I don't understand how it's getting a type though, I use the builtin new method.
03:05 sortiz The construction (new or BUILD) can be failing.
03:06 MadcapJake yeah it must be inside BUILD
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03:06 sortiz Inside BUILD, self is undefined yet.
03:07 sortiz Umm, wait. nop
03:09 sortiz In new is undefined. At BUILD should be defined, unless something failed.
03:11 ugexe MadcapJake: are you trying to access any members of the class that would not have been initialized until after BUILDALL?
03:12 ugexe m: class Foo { has $.a; method new { say $.a; }; }; Foo.new
03:12 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method new at /tmp/nf2rM8TaVF line 1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/nf2rM8TaVF line 1␤␤»
03:16 ugexe also
03:16 ugexe m: class Foo { has $.a; method bar { 1 }; method new { say self.bar; }; }; Foo.new # self can still be used to do stuff
03:16 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«1␤»
03:23 skids Man I wasn't even thinking about smoking until that stupid Truth campaign commercial came on.
03:25 ugexe the one with the catchy rap hook where they throw money makes smoking look cool as hell
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03:27 skids m: class A { method new { self.perl.say } }; A.new; # in .new, self is just the type object (unless you do something like A.new.new of course)
03:27 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«A␤»
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03:28 skids There are two options, use BUILD directly, or put your own call to bless in .new and work with the object it returned.
03:28 skids (and be sure to return that object)
03:32 skids That campaign is mendaciously deceptive and makes kids stupider.  I have to say as a smoker, the campaign with the wife-beater-wearing "bully" cigarette is both funny and discourages me from smoking, a very tiny bit, and to top it off doesn't tell lies.
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03:34 MadcapJake the call that has a probem is @!tickets.push($ticket) in a separate method. I have a Ticket:D constraint on the ticket coming in, then I just push it to a constrained «has Ticket @!tickets» array, and that's where the error happens, any ideas?
03:35 MadcapJake I've got all the guards up, so-to-speak, but for some reason this strange type object error
03:38 MadcapJake actually, before entering this add-to-array method, I tried $ticket.WHAT.say and I get the same error but from within the gist method?? o_O
03:39 MadcapJake huh, didn't realize WHAT calls gist
03:39 tony-o do you have a gist or something somewhere MadcapJake ?
03:39 MadcapJake yeah
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03:42 MadcapJake gah, I really am stumped
03:43 MadcapJake removing that gist method gives me (Ticket) but that doesn't really help me solve this, now back to the same error but inside the add-to-array method :S
03:46 MadcapJake anyone want to take a gander? https://github.com/MadcapJake/sixb​ug/blob/master/app.p6sgi#L179-L182
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04:01 skids m: class B { }; class A { has B @!b; method foo(B:D $b) { @!b.append($b); @!b.say; self; } }; A.new.foo(B.new).perl.say;
04:01 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«[B.new]␤A.new␤»
04:03 skids "RT.add($ticket);" is calling .add on the type object of RT which does not have a @!tickets.
04:03 MadcapJake skids: doh! thanks so much! totally missed that
04:04 skids Would've been nice if the error message said which type object you tried to look up an attribute in, for sure.
04:05 MadcapJake yeah agreed that is definitely a LTA error message
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04:24 perlawhirl MadcapJake: Not sure if you saw it, but it lives: https://github.com/0racle/p6-wig
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05:13 MadcapJake perlawhirl: sweet! any word from TimToady on it?
05:15 MadcapJake so i'm converting a big list of hashes into json, would it make sense to use .race and call to-json on each hash? I'm curious if that would actually get me a speed increase (currently to-json on the whole array is quite expensive)
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05:34 MadcapJake hmm not sure that's where the bottleneck is actually
05:41 MadcapJake lol, sooo my request to rt for tickets takes 43 seconds, building json for it takes 58 seconds! altogether a 2 minute wait to load the page!
05:41 MadcapJake needless to say, I am now caching the tickets and the json :P
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05:48 perlawhirl MadcapJake: I haven't asked him... don't think anyone has
05:49 perlawhirl i dunno what the ettiquette is :S
05:53 MadcapJake hrmm
05:53 MadcapJake using race shaved 20 seconds off that big to-json op :D
05:53 MadcapJake but now I think I'm just gonna build the json myself (it's very regular)
05:55 perlawhirl i find race inconsistent, but then again, i'm on a 32-bit machine, so things are slower in general
05:57 MadcapJake I'm on a six core machine! OH YEAH! ;)
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05:57 MadcapJake well either way, converting all this to-json stuff to simple string concat should help speed things up
05:58 MadcapJake I wonder if race actually degrades performance on single-core machines
05:59 MadcapJake but wrt "where" I think your proposal (was you, right?) was really well written and compelling, I'd just message him on IRC and ask if he'd read it and whether he'd be open for it.
06:00 MadcapJake oh yeah! raw to-json: 58 seconds, .race to-json: 38 seconds, string ops + race: 1.5 seconds (priceless)
06:01 perlawhirl something also about rakudo doesn't do some JIT stuff on 32-bit... someone said in passing (probably jnthn) that flew over my head
06:01 perlawhirl 1.5 seconds! nice
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06:02 MadcapJake perlawhirl: oi that's a bummer! it's surprising to me that JIT could optimize differently based on sizes of addresses, but pretty much everything suprises me about JIT :)
06:02 perlawhirl it will be nice when rakudo does things the obvious way quickly, rather than having to refactor around the slow parts
06:03 MadcapJake agreed! TBH, I find that often I reach for to-json when really the data is regular enough that I don't need it.
06:03 perlawhirl have you seen the Scientist module. How does it differ from your Test-Lab ?
06:03 MadcapJake (the real question is, is this valid json?)
06:04 perlawhirl i just noticed today there were 2 similar modules and wondered if one was better
06:04 perlawhirl it's ok, you can say yours is better :D
06:04 MadcapJake hehe, mine is a bit more DSL-like whereas lancew's is more perl6-ish
06:06 MadcapJake I tried to mix the rubyishness of Scientist's origin with some of the cool features that Perl 6 supplies but I didn't want to do named arguments because two things, (1) you lose some of the flexibility of manipulating the experiment as you're now constrained to the named arguments provided and (2) the code to implement an experiment as named arguments (in
06:06 MadcapJake terms of the original Scientist API) would be much larger (and perhaps flakier) than just letting the user do it.
06:07 moritz \o
06:07 moritz ZoffixWin++'s "Wow, Perl 6" presentation is currently No. 5 on hackernews
06:07 MadcapJake woah!
06:07 MadcapJake it's quite a good presentation, he hits a lot of cool points
06:08 * MadcapJake goes to contribute his ▲
06:08 lizmat commute to NLPW&
06:09 moritz https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11401330
06:10 MadcapJake perlawhirl: also, I implement the entirety of github's Scientist API, including every single test, it's almost an exact translation into Perl 6
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06:11 * MadcapJake is nearing completion of the Issue Submitter
06:12 MadcapJake everyone hold all issues until I get this up and running! ;)
06:17 perlawhirl wow, not too much hate on HN comments. still sad that people dismiss perl off-hand for reasons that are isolated to their own prejudices
06:18 MadcapJake perlawhirl: I've noticed that Perl 6 goes over quite well on HN, really poorly on Slashdot and mixed on Reddit :)
06:19 perlawhirl fair enough... i don't really visit them... reddit a tiny bit
06:20 perlawhirl how can you dislike a language that makes things this easy!!: say "These are my things: @things.join(', ')."
06:20 perlawhirl who needs printf anymore :D
06:22 MadcapJake yeah a few people were saying the ole lisper-line "why have operators when you can have a huge wall of parenthesis and function names" ugh x_x
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06:50 remmie is there perl6 syntax highlighting for sublime anywhere?
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07:26 sortiz "Bytecode validation error at offset 522, instruction 78: operand type 160 does not match register type 152" when using a 'uint32' constrained named argument in a method call. Without the constraint the problem vanishes.
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07:28 moritz sortiz: please submit as a bug
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07:29 ufobat good morning guys
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07:34 leont How do I do conditional matching in rules?
07:35 leont I'm trying to use multi-rules, it parses fine but doesn't seem to work
07:37 ufobat i think the problem is that rules and tokens dont backtrack
07:37 leont ?
07:37 sortiz moritz, Done: RT#127813
07:37 ufobat so if one is matching (but not complete) the other will not work anymore, since you have "consumed" parts of your string
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07:47 leont I'm not sure I understand
07:47 leont I'm using multi-rules on arguments (my grammar is context-sensitive like that)
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07:49 timotimo oh no, is the tpm2016.zoffix.com page down? :(
07:50 timotimo ZoffixWin: It's not just you! http://tpm2016.zoffix.com looks down from here.
07:51 RabidGravy it appears to be the DNS
07:51 ufobat leont, i am to much of a greenhorn to help you. sorry
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08:12 timotimo leont: have you tried Grammar::Tracer yet?
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08:20 RabidGravy I find it really useful as I am totally crap with regex
08:27 timotimo also, the debugger lets you run code - including regexes! - in its own REPL
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08:27 * lizmat greets from the NLPW
08:27 RabidGravy is it possible to use "zef" and "panda" interchangeably?  That is if I use one am I asking for trouble using the other on the same installation?
08:28 timotimo both use the API rakudo offers to do the actual installation
08:28 RabidGravy so "in theory" it should be cool
08:28 timotimo i think it ought to be fine. though perhaps they'll get confused about what is installed already and what isn't
08:28 dalek ecosystem: 319caa9 | (James Albert)++ | META.list:
08:28 dalek ecosystem: added JSON-WebToken
08:28 dalek ecosystem:
08:28 dalek ecosystem: Repo: https://github.com/jamesalbert/JSON-WebToken
08:28 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/319caa9198
08:28 dalek ecosystem: 28cd2ce | sylvarant++ | META.list:
08:28 dalek ecosystem: Merge pull request #186 from jamesalbert/master
08:28 dalek ecosystem:
08:28 dalek ecosystem: added JSON-WebToken
08:28 * RabidGravy tries
08:28 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/28cd2cedb5
08:29 timotimo i think panda has a state file to remember what's installed and what isn't
08:30 leont I'd need to simplify my use-case first before trying a tracer or debugger
08:31 timotimo i've been dreaming about building a nice little web frontend for introspecting matching process and such
08:34 Xliff http://regexr.com/
08:34 Xliff It's more a general thing though. It's not up to P6 and grammars, yet.
08:34 timotimo neat
08:34 Xliff Still. It's useful in general.
08:35 RabidGravy another week still no digest authentication module
08:35 * Xliff installs Grammar::Tracer
08:40 Xliff https://github.com/jnthn/lolsql
08:40 * Xliff spits all over his keyboard.
08:40 teatime joined #perl6
08:42 RabidGravy Oooh, I had inadvertently made a module with a ver of ".0.0.1" which works but can't be uninstalled
08:42 teatime heh
08:42 stmuk_ https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-p​atches/2016-04/msg00001.html
08:43 timotimo oh, the presentation is back
08:44 Xliff Wow!
08:44 Xliff https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj
08:44 teatime flag_never_gonna_give_you_up
08:45 Xliff ^ - This has been more helpful to me in understanding NativeCall than the examples pointed to me, earlier.
08:45 teatime --frickroll-all-loops
08:46 teatime Xliff: the implementation code of some NativeCall::______ modules provides examples of doing stuff where the docs for same are TBD.
08:47 Xliff teatime, thanks. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
08:47 donaldh ZoffixWin: Your "Wow, Perl6!" talk is trending on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11401330
08:48 RabidGravy also more than half the Audio::* modules are native bindings which do amusing and exciting things
08:48 timotimo it seems like some people don't realize it's a presentation and that they're supposed to use spacebar or arrow keys (sideways!) to get through the slides
08:48 Xliff ¯_(ツ)_/¯
08:48 timotimo reveal.js has the nice feature that it has clickable indicator arrows at the bottom right by default
08:49 Xliff RabidGravy, OK cool. I will have to make a note to use those as references.
08:50 RabidGravy and while you're at it can you wrap some Ogg/Vorbis codec library?  I get burnout quite quickly when I'm doing those sort of things ;-)
08:54 Xliff :P
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08:55 Xliff RabidGravy, the amount of boredom I'd have to achieve to do such a thing (at this point) would be legendary.
08:55 Xliff You could throw $$$ at me and then I'd do it.
08:55 RabidGravy hahahaha
08:56 RabidGravy Can we all play that game?  I'd like £75,000 for the 47 modules I already wrote
08:56 timotimo i don't have that kind of money :|
08:56 Xliff Just out of curiosity, WHICH Ogg/Vorbis codec library are you thinking of.... and how perlish do you want it?
08:56 Xliff I mean.... I can play the strait 1:1 game if you want.
08:57 teatime Gentlemen, do I have one number right?
08:57 * Xliff thinks of writing a .h to NativeCall processor.
08:57 RabidGravy there is one
08:57 Xliff Why does that not surprise me?
08:57 RabidGravy skarsnik's most excellent gptrixie
08:57 timotimo yeah, gptrixie
08:57 Xliff RabidGravy, why don't you use that when the BQ is high?
08:58 Xliff (for the slower ones here, BQ == Boredom Quotient)
08:58 Xliff Is gptrixie in the ecosystem, or do I have to install it via package manager?
08:59 timotimo um ... that's not an "or" that goes there :D
08:59 RabidGravy well, it just takes the donkey work out of making the stubs, for most things it doesn't make what I'd call a good interface
08:59 timotimo only if it's in the ecosystem, you can install it via package manager. otherwise you'll have to git clone it manually
08:59 Xliff ==> Successfully installed App::GPTrixie
08:59 timotimo to be fair, you can then use the package manager on that local clone
09:00 Xliff Hey. It's a starting point I don't have to monkey with myself!
09:00 Xliff RabidGravy, See! That's what I meant by "perlish".
09:00 Xliff What kind of interface would you think is "good"?
09:01 Xliff Would depend partly on each lib's API.
09:01 RabidGravy I'd have to charge you consultancy fees to tell you that
09:02 Xliff See, for XQuilla (whenever I can get off my ass to start it), I would probably only have "prepare" and "evaluate" subs to start with.
09:03 Xliff Sigh.... why do people have to be difficult with their namings?!?
09:03 Xliff It's Xqilla.
09:04 Xliff WTF did "U" do to them?
09:04 Xliff Q's are naked without it!!!
09:04 timotimo qeh.
09:04 RabidGravy anyway, using panda and zef  interchangeably *has* shagged my repository, but I think this is because of the foremention dodgy version
09:04 Xliff RabidGravy, WHAT? You mercenary! You'd charge me money to ask you for suggestions of something you asked me to do?!?
09:04 RabidGravy Xliff, tell that to the Basques
09:04 * Xliff boggles!
09:05 Xliff o_0
09:05 * Xliff flogs RabidGravy with a foam "U"
09:05 Xliff Aaannnd.... with that, it's probably time for zleep!
09:06 * RabidGravy nukes the rakudo and rebuilds
09:06 timotimo good night xliff
09:07 Xliff RabidGravy, Once I get my XQuery parser project started I may switch gears for the halibut.
09:07 Xliff RabidGravy, you'd need to at least suggest a ogg/vorbis library to start with, though.
09:09 RabidGravy It appears that I really am doomed to write all the things
09:10 teatime RabidGravy: I'm bored; pick a library and I'll consider it.
09:12 Xliff_ZZZzzzzz teatime, that's what I'm telling him!
09:14 RabidGravy I'm calling this "the first hurdle" ;-p
09:15 * Xliff_ZZZzzzzz hurdles RabidGravy
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09:21 gregf_ ]foo[
09:21 gregf_ ]bar]
09:21 teatime [baz[
09:22 timotimo floof
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09:57 RabidGravy tadzik, any chance you could merge https://github.com/tadzik/JSON-Unmarshal/pull/18 I'd forgotten that something I am doing depends on it
10:01 RabidGravy Also as JSON::Unmarshal has flipped to JSON::Fast I may as well go with it for JSON::Marshall and JSON::Infer now
10:01 tadzik merged :)
10:01 RabidGravy you beauty :-*
10:01 * lizmat will be doing a 20 minute ad-hoc Q&A session at the NLPW this afternoon at 16:00
10:02 timotimo i'm glad JSON::Fast gets some love :)
10:02 RabidGravy lizmat, I'd love to say I'll come along but I don't think I'll have time after doing the shopping ;-)
10:02 timotimo hm, is its test suite up to snuff? i wonder ...
10:03 lizmat RabidGravy: I'm just saying this in the hope that people will come up with some Questions I can Answer there, in case nobody has any Questions at the session itself  :-)
10:06 RabidGravy timotimo, don't worry I'm sure some of the things I'm doing with JSON will find any bugs if indeed there are any ;-)
10:12 timotimo i wonder how much faster we could get by not doing stuff recursively
10:12 timotimo on the other hand we'll get faster invocation soon anyway
10:15 tphilipp joined #perl6
10:21 RabidGravy It's just use the power of Greyskull
10:22 timotimo the force doesn't work like that!
10:23 salva joined #perl6
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10:27 tphilipp joined #perl6
10:28 RabidGravy well, it should and needs fixing ;-)
10:30 Guest38483 joined #perl6
10:31 Guest38483 Trying to clickbait lizmat++ with http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​erl6/2016-03-31#i_12267194
10:31 perlawhirl joined #perl6
10:38 perlawhirl Guest38483: certainly looks bug-ish
10:38 perlawhirl :k works, :kv doesn't
10:39 perlawhirl lizmat is at NLPW and probably busy. i'm gonna go check out the 'first' method implementation source and see if :kv in there
10:40 RabidGravy arguably a doc bug
10:40 tphilipp joined #perl6
10:41 RabidGravy anyway, the plans for world domination have to go on hold while we go shopping
10:41 robertle joined #perl6
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10:43 dogbert1 masak and moritz thought that :kv should be added according to the discussion from yesterday
10:44 perlawhirl yeah i don't see a reason why it shouldn't be implemented
10:44 dogbert1 was Guest38483 before my computer decided to reboot on me :-(
10:44 perlawhirl fwiw, first calls first-result, which is implemented here: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/6​d120cab6d0bf55a3c96fd3bd9c2e841e7eb99b0​/src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm#L498
10:45 perlawhirl no conditional for %a<kv>
10:45 teatime anything come of the .where() bikeshed yet?
10:45 perlawhirl lolol... no... TimToady answered an unrelated question of mine this morning...
10:46 perlawhirl i was about to ask him to take a gander, but then $day-job got in the way
10:46 perlawhirl dunno whether i should just notify him via yoleaux??
10:47 wamba joined #perl6
10:49 jnthn perlawhirl: I'd agree :kv should work on .first as well as .grep, suspect just forgotten
10:51 jnthn -1 from me to .where as well as .grep; we don't need two ways to do exactly the same thing. :)
10:51 jnthn Learning a language's vocabularly is part of learning a language.
10:51 robertle gentlemen, I am trying to figure out to what degree I can use == and != on numbers in perl6. is it fair to say that you of course still need to be careful with comparisons of reals, you need to find the difference and compare to some threshold, but that many of those will actually be rationals in practice, so you get away with == and != more often?
10:51 perlawhirl Guest38483: for the meantime, this will give the same result as what i :kv should (probably) do
10:52 perlawhirl m: say (1, 22/7, 42, 300).first( * > 5, :end, :p).map({$_.key, $_.value}).flat
10:52 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«(3 300)␤»
10:53 tphilipp joined #perl6
10:53 jnthn robertle: You still need to be careful about comparison of Num (which is floating point), but yes, you encounter those less often because things like 2.5 are rationals
10:54 jnthn robertle: There's a =~= operator (approximately numerically equal), iirc you can also control its tolerance
10:55 jnthn m: say 0.1 + 0.2 == 0.3 # Rat, no problem
10:55 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«True␤»
10:55 jnthn m: say 0.1e0 + 0.2e0 == 0.3e0 # Num, loss of precision by floating point makes for a surprise
10:55 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«False␤»
10:55 jnthn m: say 0.1e0 + 0.2e0 =~= 0.3e0 # But can compare with a tolerance
10:55 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«True␤»
10:57 perlawhirl Guest38483: shorter...
10:57 perlawhirl m: say (1, 22/7, 42, 300).first( * > 5, :end, :p).flatmap({.key, .value})
10:57 camelia rakudo-moar 103781: OUTPUT«(3 300)␤»
11:00 robertle jnthn: wow, thanks! I didn't know about the approximate operator, and this is exactly what I need
11:00 robertle jnthn: we are doing a perl6 study group at work...
11:01 jnthn Sounds fun :)
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11:08 chris2 what does the >+ operator do? i only find +> in the docs
11:08 perlawhirl http://docs.perl6.org/language​/setbagmix#infix_%28%3E%2B%29
11:08 perlawhirl Baggy superset
11:09 chris2 thanks
11:09 chris2 i guess a "poogle" is needed in the future :)
11:11 perlawhirl the search box on the docs page is fine for searching for exact operators... but doesn't search more vague terms
11:14 tphilipp joined #perl6
11:16 chris2 ah good idea :)
11:20 wamba joined #perl6
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11:26 hoelzro morning #perl6!
11:27 hoelzro I was reading this blog post about OOP and what sounds like MMD, and I thought I'd share it with the channel: http://devblog.avdi.org/2016/03/31/a-late-ni​ght-rant-about-oop-and-parametric-dispatch/
11:30 tphilipp joined #perl6
11:30 tphilipp 5
11:31 moritz hoelzro: I already disagree with item 1, because it ignores the issue of namespaces
11:32 perlawhirl yeah... also... i've come to reason about things such that Classes != OOP
11:32 perlawhirl just cause i make a class, doesn't mean i'm writing purely OOP code
11:33 perlawhirl i'm not "smart" enough to write proper OOP code... but a Class is a nice way to package up related methods on a data structure
11:34 tphilipp joined #perl6
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11:41 dogbert1 perlawhirl++, thx for the workaround
11:42 kid51 joined #perl6
11:42 perlawhirl erm... were you the Guest?
11:43 timotimo yes
11:43 perlawhirl cool.. well, np
11:44 dogbert1 guess a should get a nick that sticks :-)
11:45 tphilipp joined #perl6
11:45 perlawhirl isn't that a song by Huey Lewis and the News - I Need a Nick that Sticks
11:50 lizmat joined #perl6
11:51 lizmat perlawhirl: looks to me first( :kv) is totally implementable
11:51 perlawhirl yeap
11:52 lizmat probably should live in !first-result
11:52 leont joined #perl6
11:53 perlawhirl I feel like you're motioning me to submit a PR :D
11:53 perlawhirl will have a look at it later tonight (aussie time)
11:53 lizmat ok, cool...
11:53 lizmat thanks in advance!
11:53 lizmat :-)
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12:03 webmind ohai
12:03 webmind when executing the perl6 binary, it suggests to run panda install Readline
12:03 webmind but that gives the following:
12:03 webmind https://share.riseup.net/#HuQ1JHSPffAb6OzEO3Ha1Q
12:03 webmind anyone know why?
12:04 timotimo can you paste the contents of that file?
12:04 timotimo /opt/rakudo-star-2016.01/share/​perl6/site/panda/projects.json
12:04 timotimo actually, is this a rakudo star? i thought that comes with Linenoise and/or Readline by now
12:05 hoelzro star comes with Linenoise...but I don't know about 2016.01
12:05 timotimo OK
12:05 timotimo anything in particular keeping us from a rakudo star for .03, btw? i expect it's just no volunteer to do it
12:07 webmind timotimo: it's empty
12:08 timotimo is that the file that gets filled by "panda update"?
12:08 webmind I just followed a manual on installing perl6 :)
12:08 timotimo maybe that helps
12:08 hoelzro moritz: I didn't think of that; I was interested because of Perl6's 'multi sub' and 'multi method' distinction
12:08 timotimo i wonder why it's an empty file, though. it should be either with the correct contents or completely missing
12:08 webmind running panda update solves the problem :)
12:12 moritz timotimo: I'm not aware of a blocker
12:13 timotimo i feel like just giving it a shot for the hell of it.
12:19 timotimo m: my @a; Buf.new(@a)
12:19 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: ( no output )
12:19 timotimo m: my @a; Buf.new(@a).say
12:19 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<>␤»
12:19 timotimo star: my @a; Buf.new(@a).say
12:19 camelia star-m 2016.01: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<>␤»
12:19 timotimo i wonder what was b0rked there in between now and the beginning of march
12:20 moritz hoelzro: well, the main difference between multi sub and multi method dispatch (in Perl 6) is where the code objects are being searched
12:20 moritz hoelzro: in the lexical scope(s) vs. in method tables
12:21 hoelzro ah, good point
12:22 timotimo hum. do i need to use an older-ish version of panda to be compatible with our 2016.03 release?
12:22 timotimo don't think so.
12:22 timotimo no major changes since 2016.02
12:23 timotimo star will need to get File::Which
12:24 timotimo oh, #perl6-release is prime for this
12:35 ZoffixWin Hacker news, eh
12:36 ZoffixWin I wish my blog post and not just my slides were the link :/
12:38 cdg joined #perl6
12:41 timotimo aye
12:45 ufobat joined #perl6
12:46 ZoffixWin I'll just add another slide in the front
12:46 sue joined #perl6
12:46 [Coke] hoelzro: how hard is RT #70927 with your new repl?
12:49 lizmat timotimo: what is exactly the problem with Buf.new???
12:49 timotimo i have no idea, but there's a module that has a workaround in its source for that
12:49 timotimo probably not important
12:50 lizmat timotimo: ah, that, because it's all 6.c
12:51 lizmat and some 6.c support some Buf.new features, and some don't  :-(
12:52 [Coke] (empty projects.json) I used to see that all the time when trying to panda from behind a firewall.
12:52 timotimo oh, ugh
12:52 tphilipp joined #perl6
12:53 ZoffixWin Well... seems like a good chunk of those comments on HN are positive-ish. I really only spotted people crying about custom emoticon operators or that the UI on slides is unintuitive...
12:53 ZoffixWin We're making progress! :D
12:53 jnthn 6.c unambiguously does not, because there weren't roast tests for those Buf.new features :P
12:55 perlawhirl Zoffix: yeah, people already have some unfounded fear of sigil'd variables... i think throwing more unicode frightens them
12:57 perlawhirl when i'm "selling" sigils to non-perlers... i always show them string interp first: say "hi $name"
12:57 perlawhirl it's one of those little things that make sigils worthwhile
12:58 perlawhirl once they are impressed with that, then you can hit them on the head with more unicode :D
12:59 perlawhirl oh! ÷ and ×
12:59 perlawhirl those too
12:59 avalenn m: my @inf = (Inf,Inf...Inf) ; my @o = (0,0...Inf) ; my @max, @min, @sum ; for lines>>.split(" ")>>.chars -> @cur { @min = (|@min, |@inf) Zmin @cur  ; @max = (|@max, |@o) Zmax @cur  ;  } ; say @min  ; say @max
12:59 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/1AZ0ZQxo8d␤Variable '@min' is not declared. Did you mean '&min'?␤at /tmp/1AZ0ZQxo8d:1␤------> 3..Inf) ; my @o = (0,0...Inf) ; my @max, 7⏏5@min, @sum ; for lines>>.split(" ")>>.ch␤»
13:00 avalenn m: my @inf = (Inf,Inf...Inf) ; my @o = (0,0...Inf) ; my @max ; my @min ; for lines>>.split(" ")>>.chars -> @cur { @min = (|@min, |@inf) Zmin @cur  ; @max = (|@max, |@o) Zmax @cur  ;  } ; say @min  ; say @max
13:00 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«[0 2 1 2 1 2 2 3 1 4 5 2 4 0]␤[6 4 8 7 5 7 4 7 3 11 6 6 8 6]␤»
13:00 gtodd custom emoticon operators ++
13:00 tphilipp left #perl6
13:00 teatime so, are they called texas variants, because everything is bigger in texas?
13:01 perlawhirl yes
13:01 timotimo yes
13:01 mr-foobar joined #perl6
13:02 dalek ecosystem: 95d6ea8 | kuerbis++ | META.list:
13:02 dalek ecosystem: Add Term::Form to ecosystem
13:02 dalek ecosystem:
13:02 dalek ecosystem: See https://github.com/kuerbis/Term-Form-p6
13:02 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/95d6ea808f
13:02 dalek ecosystem: cea93ce | jnthn++ | META.list:
13:02 dalek ecosystem: Merge pull request #187 from kuerbis/master
13:02 dalek ecosystem:
13:02 dalek ecosystem: Add Term::Form to ecosystem
13:02 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/cea93ce5bd
13:02 ZoffixWin perlawhirl, but that isn't impressive. I believe it's Ruby that has sigiless variables, but it lets you interpolate them by adding a sigil. Interpolation isn't an excuse to have sigils all the time.
13:03 dvinciguerra__ joined #perl6
13:03 ZoffixWin To me, they're an indication of a variable, as opposed to a sub or a keyword. Good enough for me to like 'em.
13:03 felher joined #perl6
13:04 gtodd sigils make it possible for humans to read code more quickly :)
13:04 perlawhirl yeah that's reason No1
13:04 gtodd tiwigils of course are part of the secret plan
13:05 perlpilot I think people's fear of sigils is rooted in community memories of BASIC  :)
13:05 skids joined #perl6
13:05 gtodd or people who never used unix shells
13:07 gtodd powershell has sigils so ...
13:07 gtodd :-P
13:07 gtodd param( [string] $infile = $(throw "Please specify a filename.") )
13:07 moritz I'm not quite sure how much I like sigils
13:07 gtodd so clean .... so ... "power"ful
13:08 moritz but I do know that it infuriates me that in python "id" is a built-in symbol (the identity function)
13:08 gtodd hah
13:08 moritz and I work with lots of objects that have unique ids
13:08 zakharyas joined #perl6
13:08 sue joined #perl6
13:08 perlawhirl gtodd: psh is fine if you don't have perl and you need to script some stuff... but i really can't stand the dynamic scoping
13:09 ufobat joined #perl6
13:09 moritz so either I get name it 'id' and get lots of linter warnings, and have a bad conscience for doing something Not Right, and override the builtin, or I have to find a different name
13:09 timotimo "uid" or "oid" :\
13:09 timotimo doesn't feel so good
13:09 timotimo "idx" :P
13:09 perlawhirl ident?
13:09 gtodd maybe there could be a bunch of macros or a slang/grammar/dialect of perl6 that is sigil-less and uses tons of parens instead!
13:09 timotimo or do it like other places in python do it: jd or di or id_
13:10 moritz gtodd: Inline::Scheme? :-)
13:10 gtodd :-D
13:10 jnthn Sigils also make the data stand out, so aiding readability. :)
13:10 moritz timotimo: I hate all of those
13:10 gtodd $igil + syntax highlighting = super powers
13:10 timotimo :)
13:11 perlawhirl speaking of syntax highlighting... in vim, at least, sometimes ». causes all trailing methods to be blue
13:11 timotimo :o
13:11 perlawhirl anyone other vim users get that?
13:11 moritz it's like, I don't like sigils, but I tend to not like the absence of sigils as well :-)
13:11 moritz perlawhirl: haven't noticed it
13:11 hoelzro [Coke]: could you paste a link? I can't seem to load that ticket
13:12 gtodd besides isn't there a rule about TimToady being right even if wrong?   therefore if sigils are a bad idea they are still good so ....
13:12 perlawhirl i have no problem dropping sigils when writing python, but i can't stop typing 'my' :)
13:12 gtodd heh
13:13 perlawhirl i do it in powershell too
13:14 gtodd anyway a good editor could make sigils disappear unless you hover a mouse for 10 seconds or whatever
13:14 gtodd best of both worlds
13:15 [Coke] https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=70297 , maybe I typod it
13:15 teatime perlawhirl: I do not...
13:15 perlawhirl gtodd: lol, keymap to toggle sigil visability. not for me, i'm in the "i like 'em" camp
13:15 teatime (get that behavior from vim)
13:16 perlawhirl teatime: i'll update vim perl and check again
13:16 gtodd perlawhirl: in vim you could use texas variant maybe  ?  >>
13:16 teatime perlawhirl: presumably it's seeing it as a quote/begin string?
13:16 teatime or comment...
13:16 perlawhirl well, another workaround is add the trailing brackets, so lines()».trim instead of lines».trim
13:16 teatime perlawhirl: I'm pretty sure I'm using the crappy bundled perl6 syntax files
13:17 perlawhirl hmm, i thought vim-perl came with modified syntax files
13:17 gtodd perlawhirl: sometimes when I try to open powershell scripts they open in a postscript viewer
13:18 perlawhirl righto... will remove vim-perl then and see what happens
13:19 arnsholt A question for the native-speakers of English: When speaking of Biblical texts, is "the begats" a term that's actually used (or at least understandable)?
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13:21 teatime um.. tthere might be people at HN who think smoe of the syntax is a Apr 1 joke
13:21 teatime like the whatever operator
13:21 perlawhirl teatime: well removing vim-perl fixed it
13:21 perlawhirl some colors are slightly different too
13:21 lizmat joined #perl6
13:22 teatime arnsholt: understandable, yes I know exactly what is being referred to by that
13:22 cdg joined #perl6
13:22 teatime arnsholt: some people might not be familiar enough w/ the bible to recognize it though
13:22 perlawhirl .d begats
13:22 yoleaux Sorry, I couldn't find a definition for 'begats'.
13:23 perlpilot teatime: really?  What is "the begats"?
13:23 perlawhirl .ety begats
13:23 yoleaux Sorry, I couldn't find the etymology of that.
13:23 teatime perlawhirl: you could probably fix the syntax file for vim-perl
13:23 perlawhirl lousy yoleaux!!
13:23 teatime perlawhirl: the default one sucks too, just in other ways
13:23 perlpilot unless you mean "begets" and even then, it's not very nouny
13:23 perlawhirl .d begat
13:23 yoleaux perlawhirl: Sorry, that command (.d) crashed.
13:23 perlawhirl hah!
13:23 perlawhirl .ety begat
13:23 yoleaux begat (v.): "archaic past tense of beget." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=begat
13:23 perlawhirl .d begat
13:23 yoleaux perlawhirl: Sorry, that command (.d) crashed.
13:23 teatime perlawhirl: early in the old testament, there's a long, long string of X begat Y begat Z begat A begat B...
13:24 teatime begat means parented
13:24 perlpilot so "the begats" is referring specifically to that long string of A begat B begat C ?
13:24 teatime I assume so.
13:24 perlawhirl yes i'm aware of it's use in the bible
13:24 teatime http://www.readbookonline.net/read/933/10945/
13:25 teatime also https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?​search=1+Chronicles+1&amp;version=WYC
13:25 perlawhirl i think it's just to assert the lineage to... Abraham?
13:25 arnsholt Basically
13:25 arnsholt There's another one in one of the Gospels, tracing the lineage of Jesus
13:25 teatime http://biblehub.com/commentaries/pnt/matthew/1.htm
13:26 perlawhirl if someone joined now they might think they were in the wrong channel =D
13:26 teatime lol
13:26 sjoshi lol
13:26 moritz man, they should've just drawn a freakin' graph
13:27 perlpilot Have you accepted Perl 6 as your personal savior?
13:27 teatime And lo, Abraham begat the following DAG:
13:27 tony-o m: { sleep $_; .say }.(.2|.3|.1);
13:27 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«any(0.2, 0.3, 0.1)␤»
13:27 tony-o does the output of that get serialized?
13:28 timotimo it's not actually spreading out to multiple threads
13:28 lizmat no, at the moment all elements of the junction are executed in turn
13:28 perlpilot Since they only mention the "important" male-children, the DAG would be very linear.
13:29 tony-o ahh, this explains. thanks lizmat timotimo
13:30 arnsholt teatime: Right, so I'm not completely insane when using that term. Still, since both my advisors commented "what?" on it, I should probably add an explanatory footnote =)
13:30 leont joined #perl6
13:30 teatime arnsholt: is it not a common term among people who study the bible?
13:30 teatime somehow, it seems like it would be.
13:30 timotimo oh hey arnsholt!
13:31 perlpilot arnsholt: What's the sentence where you used it?
13:32 arnsholt perlpilot: "the latter text is also written in a highly repetitive style
13:32 arnsholt with key phrases and constructions being very frequent, such as the begats and short sentences
13:32 arnsholt introducing quotations."
13:32 teatime hrm.
13:32 timotimo it's basically written in a very antique variant of JSON
13:32 arnsholt The latter text being the Latin Vulgata text (contrasting with Caesar's Bellum Gallicum)
13:32 perlpilot I think had you mentioned the bible, it would have been clear
13:33 timotimo they didn't have ASCII yet so it's all words instead of symbols
13:33 [Coke] I wouldn't say that's an english question so much as a bible question.
13:33 teatime arnsholt: doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, does it.
13:33 [Coke] m: say 3 !=3; say 3 != 3;
13:33 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Int␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/CqnfXDXKt6 line 1␤␤»
13:34 [Coke] m: say 3 != 3; say 3 !=3;
13:34 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«False␤Cannot modify an immutable Int␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/V5KKtlflkY line 1␤␤»
13:34 teatime arnsholt: 'such as' also indicates that the begats and short sentences are part of the later text, if they're not something like "like" would be better.
13:34 [Coke] if that's OK (due to whitespace requirements), someone can close https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=121108
13:34 timotimo "Ha! Nice april fools, the best part was those operators.
13:34 timotimo ^- best comment
13:34 arnsholt Yeah, they're particular to the Bible text. Caesar isn't particularly interested in genealogy =)
13:36 [Coke] Today is the day we reveal the original AF joke is now complete, and turn off the lights and go home?
13:38 [Coke] .seen gabor
13:38 yoleaux I haven't seen gabor around.
13:38 avalenn m: my @max ; my @min ; for lines>>.split(" ")>>.chars -> @cur { @min = (|@min, |(Inf xx (@cur - @min))) Zmin (|@cur, |(Inf xx (@min - @cur)))  ; @max = (|@max, |(-Inf xx (@cur - @max)) Zmax (|@cur, |(-Inf xx (@max - @cur))))  ; say @cur } ; say @min.perl  ; say @max.perl
13:38 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«(4 4 2 8 6 7 4 2 5)␤(4 3 5 4 2 2 8 3 3 4 2 5 4 2 5)␤(5 1 7 4 5 2 4 4 6 2 5 2 7 3 3)␤(1 2 7 3 10 6 6 8 2 4 3 5 2 6)␤(0)␤(2 8 3 5 3 6 7 7 2 2 6 2 2 4)␤(2 5 3 1 2 2 4 2 2 3 3 7 1 4 4 5)␤(2 8 4 1 3 2 7 1 5 4 2 9 5)␤(6 2 4 2 5 4 2 3 2 5 2 2 10 6…»
13:38 moritz .seen szabgab
13:38 yoleaux I saw szabgab 19 Dec 2015 06:47Z in #perl6: <szabgab> thanks for the links
13:38 lizmat .see gabzab
13:39 [Coke] danke.
13:39 lizmat .seen gabszab
13:39 yoleaux I haven't seen gabszab around.
13:39 lizmat .seen gabzsab
13:39 yoleaux I haven't seen gabzsab around.
13:39 lizmat hmmm....
13:39 [Coke] .ask szabgab - Can you please double check https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=123497 against a 2016 R*?
13:39 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to szabgab.
13:39 moritz [Coke]: he's not much on IRC anymore; if you want an answer, best write him an email
13:40 avalenn m: my @max ; my @min ; for lines>>.split(" ")>>.chars -> @cur { @min = (|@min, |(Inf xx (@cur - @min))) Zmin (|@cur, |(Inf xx (@min - @cur)))  ; @max = (|@max, |(-Inf xx (@cur - @max)) Zmax (|@cur, |(-Inf xx (@max - @cur))))  } ; say @min  ; say @max ;
13:40 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«[0 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 0 3 4 3]␤[6 11 8 8 10 10 8 8 10 11 8 9 10 6 6 8 3]␤»
13:40 moritz avalenn: wow, what's that?
13:41 [Coke] moritz: Not enough to compose an email, no. :)
13:41 avalenn try to do max and min accross several lines
13:41 [Coke] .ask nine is https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=123276 done?
13:41 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to nine.
13:42 perlpilot avalenn: don't we have a minmax routine/method/whatever?
13:42 avalenn I don't know, I could be interested in one
13:42 perlpilot I think we do
13:42 lizmat m: say ^10 .minmax
13:42 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«(0 9)␤»
13:43 perlpilot m: say (7,9,3,8).minmax;  # for some variation
13:43 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«3..9␤»
13:43 skids Note Range.minmax and List.minmax are different.
13:43 avalenn m: lines>>.split(" ")>>.chars.minmax
13:43 skids jinx
13:43 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: ( no output )
13:44 avalenn m: lines>>.split(" ")>>.chars>>.minmax
13:44 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: ( no output )
13:44 skids need to say
13:44 avalenn m: lines>>.split(" ")>>.chars.minmax.say
13:44 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«0..11␤»
13:44 avalenn m: lines>>.split(" ")>>.chars>>.minmax.say
13:44 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«(2..8 2..8 1..7 1..10 0..0 2..8 1..7 1..9 2..10 0..0 1..7 1..8 1..10 1..10 2..11 0..0 1..7 2..8 1..6 0..11)␤»
13:45 perlawhirl m: chars
13:45 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Nzp_dcX_Lw␤Calling chars() will never work with proto signature ($)␤at /tmp/Nzp_dcX_Lw:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5chars␤»
13:45 lizmat m: chars("foo").say
13:45 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«3␤»
13:45 perlawhirl m: lines».words».chars».minmax.say
13:45 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«(2..8 2..8 1..7 1..10 Inf..-Inf 2..8 1..7 1..9 2..10 Inf..-Inf 1..7 1..8 1..10 1..10 2..11 Inf..-Inf 1..7 2..8 1..6 2..11)␤»
13:46 perlpilot heh
13:46 gregf_ m: lines
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: ( no output )
13:46 perlpilot I like that Inf..-Inf
13:46 perlawhirl haha i dunno whats up with that
13:46 lizmat m: .say for lines # gregf_
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ G…»
13:46 gregf_ m: lines.^name
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: ( no output )
13:46 perlawhirl i was just trying to replace avelenn's .split with .words
13:46 skids m: (1,2,3,0)».minmax.say
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«(1..1 2..2 3..3 0..0)␤»
13:47 skids weird, what's that .chars putting out.
13:47 avalenn m: say ines>>.split(" ")>>.chars # skids
13:47 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/GP_1gn85DJ␤Undeclared routine:␤    ines used at line 1. Did you mean 'lines'?␤␤»
13:47 perlawhirl m: lines».words».chars
13:47 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: ( no output )
13:47 perlawhirl m: say lines».words».chars
13:47 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«((4 4 2 8 6 7 4 2 5) (4 3 5 4 2 2 8 3 3 4 2 5 4 2 5) (5 1 7 4 5 2 4 4 6 2 5 2 7 3 3) (1 2 7 3 10 6 6 8 2 4 3 5 2 6) () (2 8 3 5 3 6 7 7 2 2 6 2 2 4) (2 5 3 1 2 2 4 2 2 3 3 7 1 4 4 5) (2 8 4 1 3 2 7 1 5 4 2 9 5) (6 2 4 2 5 4 2 3 2 5 2 2 10 6 6 8) () (6 1 2 …»
13:48 perlawhirl m: say lines».words».chars».minmax
13:48 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«(2..8 2..8 1..7 1..10 Inf..-Inf 2..8 1..7 1..9 2..10 Inf..-Inf 1..7 1..8 1..10 1..10 2..11 Inf..-Inf 1..7 2..8 1..6 2..11)␤»
13:48 perlawhirl figure that out?
13:49 skids Yay lols.
13:50 skids I'm off to go glue various small metal items to a door with a sign warning of strong magnetic fields inside.
13:50 domidumont joined #perl6
13:50 lizmat .oO( the power of Perl 6 ! )
13:51 perlawhirl .words shoud do the same as .split(' ') asuuming single spaced words
13:51 avalenn quite, the difference is on empty lines
13:51 _4d47 joined #perl6
13:51 avalenn m: say "".words
13:51 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«()␤»
13:51 avalenn m: say "".split(" ")
13:51 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«()␤»
13:52 avalenn say lines[4]
13:52 avalenn m: say lines[4]
13:52 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«␤»
13:52 avalenn m: say lines[4].words
13:52 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«()␤»
13:52 avalenn m: say lines[4].split(" ")
13:52 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«()␤»
13:53 domidumont joined #perl6
13:54 [Coke] https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=127127 - Perl 6 advent site needs an archive widget in the theme.
13:54 perlawhirl m: say lines[2].split(' ').elems
13:54 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«15␤»
13:54 perlawhirl m: say lines[2].words.elems
13:54 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«15␤»
13:54 timotimo how many of you are interested in testing a rakudo-star tarball?
13:54 * moritz is
13:54 avalenn m: say lines[4].words.perl
13:54 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«().Seq␤»
13:54 avalenn m: say lines[4].split(" ").perl
13:54 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«("",)␤»
13:55 moritz m: say lines[4].perl
13:55 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«""␤»
13:55 lizmat m: say lines[4]
13:55 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«␤»
13:55 moritz m: say lines[3].perl
13:55 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«"I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ Ghaoth Dobhair, is beag nár bhris mo chroí."␤»
13:55 timotimo oh, look at that, that string is totally corrupted!
13:55 moritz lol
13:55 [Coke] timotimo: *thbbthp*
13:57 teatime is that Klingon?
13:57 timotimo welsh?
13:58 avalenn seems gaëlic or something similar from my untrained eye
13:58 timotimo garlic?
13:58 timotimo http://t.h8.lv/rakudo-star-2016.03.tar.gz
13:58 avalenn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic
13:58 [Coke] m: DOC INIT { use barf }
13:58 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find barf in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6␤    CompUnit::Repository::Absolu…»
13:59 teatime taH pagh taHbe'
14:00 timotimo so it'd be nice if you'd all get that tarball, unpack, install, test :)
14:01 timotimo maybe then i'll go write an announcement and see what else there is to do for a release
14:01 timotimo AFK for a bit
14:04 lizmat joined #perl6
14:04 sue joined #perl6
14:07 moritz timotimo++ # star RC
14:08 moritz timotimo++ # server reachable by IPv6 :-)
14:16 avalenn is there any "perldoc -f" equivalent for perl6 ?
14:16 moritz .tell timotimo re star RC, I get this error during modules-install-m: http://perlpunks.de/paste/show/56fe8298.655e.1d5
14:16 yoleaux moritz: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
14:17 frederico joined #perl6
14:17 moritz .tell timotimo this is on a boring Debian Jessie (stable) amd64
14:17 yoleaux moritz: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
14:17 cognominal joined #perl6
14:18 avalenn teatime: http://www.gaelicmatters.com/ir​ish-songs-lyrics.html#gleanntan
14:18 g4 joined #perl6
14:24 tony-o oh cool, i'm in the perl6 FAQ :-)
14:24 perlpilot avalenn: there's a p6doc command you can install, but I think you'll have better luck with doc.perl6.org
14:30 abraxxa joined #perl6
14:30 timotimo moritz: inconthievable!
14:30 yoleaux 14:16Z <moritz> timotimo: re star RC, I get this error during modules-install-m: http://perlpunks.de/paste/show/56fe8298.655e.1d5
14:30 yoleaux 14:17Z <moritz> timotimo: this is on a boring Debian Jessie (stable) amd64
14:31 tony-o m: sub a (--> Rat:D) { Rat; }; a.say;
14:31 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«Type check failed for return value; expected Rat but got Rat␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/uWs7B6Wj2g line 1␤␤»
14:31 timotimo moritz: on my end, that line reads "mkpath 't/dir2';"
14:31 tony-o i like that error message
14:34 jferrero joined #perl6
14:35 perlawhirl besides (1,2).Seq, is there any other syntax do define a Seq
14:35 g4 joined #perl6
14:36 rjbs > $x = (1, 2 ... *) gets a seq FWIF.
14:36 rjbs FWIW, even.
14:37 rjbs $x = (1 ... 2) also
14:38 gregf_ m: say (1 ... 3).^name
14:38 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«Seq␤»
14:40 pmurias joined #perl6
14:40 jnthn perlawhirl: gather/take blocks also return a Seq
14:40 jnthn In fact, *most* things that produce values you can iterate return a Seq :)
14:42 RabidGravy If I create a new type on the fly using the MOP does it stick around for ever or just until the final place it is used go out of scope?
14:44 RabidGravy or to put it another way if I create a bunch of dummy classes in a long running program am I goiing to run into trouble eventually
14:45 perlawhirl jnthn: that's my point i guess. i'm working on a PR (and tests!) to add a :kv adverb to 'first'. it's not in S32 - is in the docs - but i think there's a reasonable user expectation that first would have the same adverbs as grep
14:45 jnthn perlawhirl: yes, me too
14:45 perlawhirl so... grep :kv returns a Seq, so with first, is it enough that i just return (index, value).Seq or is there more to returning a Seq of definite values
14:46 jnthn RabidGravy: Types can be GC'd
14:46 jnthn RabidGravy: So long as they're not referenced anywhere
14:46 jnthn Meta-objects really are just objects
14:48 pmurias does publishing nqp-js-on-js on npm seems like a good idea (to mostly see how what is needed for that it's not really ready for "serious" use)
14:48 yoleaux 31 Mar 2016 21:02Z <[Coke]> pmurias: I can do it when not at work, but I can also do it at work if I use certain URLs.
14:48 RabidGravy cool, I'm just doing an experiment with a web proxy thing for Lumberjack and to make it really simple I'm serialising the class name and its log-level and when it is receoved on the other end if the web part doesn't know about the class it creates an empty one and applies the LOgger role to it
14:50 RabidGravy the lifetime of which is only going to be as long as the dispatchers get to handle it
14:51 moritz timotimo: that's probably from modules/panda/ext/Shell__Co​mmand/t/02-shell-command.t
14:51 timotimo oh!
14:51 moritz timotimo: and not from modules/shell-command/t/02-shell-command.t
14:52 moritz ok which('perl6').IO.x, 'which - perl6 is found';
14:52 MadcapJake This is pretty great: https://github.com/crystal​-lang/crystal/issues/2394
14:52 moritz timotimo: of note: I have no perl6 in my path
14:52 timotimo oh, haha
14:52 timotimo well, that's clever!
14:52 timotimo that must be "we'll just search for something we totally know must be in the path!"
14:54 timotimo *sigh*
14:54 timotimo i'm not sure how to deal with this in a sensible way
14:55 * moritz neither
14:55 moritz well, a sensible first step would be to open an issue
14:56 moritz confront the maintainer. TADZIK!!!!
14:56 timotimo if we bring the submodule up to latest, we'll also have to add another ext, File::Which
14:56 timotimo that one may have better tests
14:56 cuthere joined #perl6
14:56 RabidGravy put the path of $*EXECUTABLE in %*ENV<PATH> ?
14:56 moritz RabidGravy: might be an option as well
14:56 sue joined #perl6
14:56 * MadcapJake is surprised that Perl 7 wasn't announced today ;)
15:00 andreoss joined #perl6
15:01 perlawhirl so let me ask... if i'm submitting a PR for previously untested functionality... where do my tests go? do i submit a PR to roast as well and reference my rakudo PR?
15:01 jnthn perlawhirl: Yes, or just ask for a commit bit to roast and push them afterwards
15:02 timotimo onto the master branch, aye
15:02 andreoss was p6 feed operator borrowed from somewhere? It doesn't seem to be sematically close to what haskell pipe does.
15:03 jnthn andreoss: ASCII art, perhaps :P
15:05 jolts joined #perl6
15:06 jolts joined #perl6
15:07 geekosaur feed operator is more or less inspired by unix shell, no?
15:10 perlpilot Maybe it says somewhere around S06:1361
15:10 tadzik what what :o
15:11 geekosaur hm., are we talking about the syntax or the semantics?
15:18 timotimo yo tadzik
15:18 timotimo Shell::Command - only the version bundled with panda - doesn't pass its tests when there's no "perl6" in the PATH
15:19 timotimo which is usually the case when building rakudo-star
15:19 timotimo could you bring it up to date with the newest Shell::Command, which'd also mean to pull in File::Which?
15:22 tadzik I think so, yes
15:22 timotimo cool
15:22 timotimo i'm in the middle of making a rakudo star release
15:22 andreoss perlpilot: it doesn't say where it was borrowed from, but i assume shell
15:23 tadzik I really have no idea how to work with submodules ;D
15:24 andreoss though pipe in shell can have any command on either of sides
15:24 geekosaur sure. shell is untyped :)
15:24 timotimo tadzik: well, that's why you use subtree, right?
15:24 geekosaur | won't know that some command produces no output or takes no input, for example,
15:25 andreoss it would feel much more like shells pipe, if ==> was just a another syntax for method call
15:25 andreoss assuming method call won't perform a mutation on object
15:26 tadzik oh, I do indeed
15:26 tadzik should be good now
15:26 tadzik moritz++ for update_subtree.pl
15:26 ptolemarch joined #perl6
15:26 andreoss m: (1..10) ==> reduce * + * ==> elems ==> say;
15:26 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/2j7sv5dmM4␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix ==> instead␤at /tmp/2j7sv5dmM4:1␤------> 3(1..10) ==> reduce * + * ==> elems ==>7⏏5 say;␤»
15:27 andreoss m: (1..10).reduce( * + * ).say;
15:27 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«55␤»
15:28 andreoss sadly there's no alernative syntax for ., method chaining could be more readble
15:29 psch m: sub ssay(|c) { say c }; (1..10) ==> reduce * + * ==> ssay;
15:29 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«\(55)␤»
15:29 psch m: say; # this error break feeds there, apparently
15:29 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/AF7ajdzoTC␤Unsupported use of bare "say"; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument, or use &say to refer to the function as a noun␤at /tmp/AF7ajdzoTC:1␤------> 3…»
15:29 andreoss psch: because ==> does not call it as a method
15:30 psch andreoss: no, because the grammar parses every base "say" as wrong
15:30 psch *bare
15:30 psch as in, when not in a dottyop or without arguments
15:30 andreoss m: (1..10) ==> reduce * + * ==> print;
15:30 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/V9NeLs8IBc␤Unsupported use of bare "print"; in Perl 6 please use .print if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument, or use &print to refer to the function as a noun␤at /tmp/V9NeLs8IBc:1␤----…»
15:31 psch same error for print, yes :)
15:32 jnthn m: (1..10) ==> reduce * + * ==> say();
15:32 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«55␤»
15:32 psch that i didn't try because i wasn't sure of the feed semantics... :)
15:32 psch jnthn++
15:34 andreoss m: role Foo { method say-it { self.say } } ; ( ( 1..10 ==> reduce( * + * ) ) does Foo) ==> say-it()
15:34 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/yvJNRMs4dG␤Undeclared routine:␤    say-it used at line 1␤␤»
15:35 perlawhirl ok... my first rakudo PR submitted... which also happens to be for 'first'
15:36 perlawhirl it's 2:30 in the am here... i think bedtime
15:37 jnthn andreoss: It does sub calls, not method calls
15:39 andreoss jnthn: why so? many subs indented for ==> have a coresponding method, e.g map, grep
15:40 andreoss I mean ==> feels like chainging method calls with this subs, why doesn't it call methods in a first place?
15:40 jnthn andreoss: I don't know, I didn't design it. :-)
15:41 jnthn andreoss: But if you want to chain method calls, then that's already perfectly easy
15:41 jnthn It'd be a bit odd to introduce a more verbose syntax just for that. :)
15:41 dvinciguerra joined #perl6
15:41 perlawhirl method calls already chain left the right... whereas chained subs kinda read right to left
15:42 jnthn Right
15:42 jnthn :)
15:44 psch way i see it, ==> is an alternative to .&sub
15:44 psch plus choice of direction, seeing as <== is around too and means the same afair
15:45 psch it's what this one HN commenter called "more than one way to make it look"
15:45 domidumont joined #perl6
15:45 jnthn m: multi sub cross () {}
15:45 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
15:46 [Coke] BOOM
15:46 [Coke] is there a ticket for that?
15:46 jnthn [Coke]: yes, that's why I was trying it out
15:46 [Coke] (please add [SEGV] to titles for segfaulting tickets)
15:46 jnthn While my local Rakudo rebuilt after fixing something else :)
15:46 sue joined #perl6
15:47 _4d47 psch: what is .&sub ? i've seen it recently, still confused by it
15:47 ugexe foo(1, 2, 3) is the same as 1.&foo(2,3)
15:48 * jnthn alrady has 2 SEGV fixes locally, and is thinking he might hunt this one down for a third :)
15:49 RabidGravy jnthn++
15:51 khw joined #perl6
15:52 [Coke] jnthn: nice. Thanks!
15:53 _4d47 ok ugexe like just a shorcut, cool thx
15:53 jnthn m: say &cross.derive_dispatcher
15:53 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
15:53 [Coke] Someone can go through and retry the other SEGVs after to make sure they weren't dupes. :)
15:53 jnthn Golfs to that heisensegv
15:53 jnthn If anyone wants to check something: please try https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=126956
15:53 _4d47 makes me think of https://github.com/tj/luna#method-syntactic-sugar
15:53 jnthn It doesn't leak at all for me
15:57 * [Coke] fires up a fresh build of rakudo to test
15:58 telex joined #perl6
15:59 ugexe _4d47: its handy for using with hypers `(1..10)>>.&sin` or whatevers  `(1..10).map(*.&sin)`
16:01 [Coke] jnthn: it's leaking here.
16:01 [Coke] 100% CPU, already up to 22% of my 16G box.
16:02 [Coke] OS X
16:02 Woodi same here. how it do this ?? :)
16:03 cur8or joined #perl6
16:04 [Coke] jnthn: ... it does eventually level off at about 18% of 16G
16:07 [Coke] ... 10.5 %
16:08 [Coke] er, sorry, 13%. but it does seem to be freeing some up now, anyway.
16:08 jnthn [Coke]: Odd, here on Windows its flat at 106MB
16:09 jnthn Woodi: OSX or Linux?
16:09 timotimo it grows comfortably to 5gb on my box
16:09 Woodi Linux, 32bit
16:09 jnthn OK, good
16:10 timotimo what happens when we sink a Supply like that?
16:10 jnthn (Good it's reproducable on Linux)
16:10 jnthn timotimo: Well, it fires off the events, which go nowhere :)
16:10 andreoss jnthn: you meant something else that .?
16:10 timotimo that could be thrown owt ;)
16:11 andreoss *than
16:12 jnthn andreoss: No, I meant . is already a perfectly fine way to chain method calls
16:12 jnthn Especially since you can spread them over lines now
16:13 timotimo yeah
16:15 Woodi so, working like requested ? Supply accumulate forever ?
16:16 jnthn Woodi: No, we don't store the messages anywehre
16:17 jnthn The fact it doesn't leak on Windows makes it highly likely it's something platform specific going on and probably fairly low level
16:20 timotimo want me to pull a heap snapshot and take a look?
16:20 jnthn The third SEGV turns out to be a bit more interesting to hunt down than the previous two, and it's time to think about cooking dinner...I'll bbiab
16:20 jnthn timotimo: You can but I suspect it'll be C-level leaking
16:20 jnthn timotimo: Because once we're in managed memory space, why'd it behave any differently across platforms? :)
16:21 jnthn So I'd valgrind it but with a sleep 5; or something
16:21 timotimo well, ... fair enough
16:21 jnthn As a starting point
16:21 jnthn timotimo++
16:22 jnthn I'll probably be back to write tests for the two things I did fix, once the cooking gets to the ignore-it-a-while step :)
16:22 jnthn &
16:22 sue_ joined #perl6
16:23 Woodi btw. new OpenBSD release as one of highlights have "rewrite of less". so, it can be considered exploitable :)
16:23 RabidGravy so all the while Supply was a role I never cared about its roley-ness, now it isn't anymore I want it to be a role again :-\
16:24 RabidGravy oh well
16:24 Woodi ...but i realy didn't consult code. just probability :)
16:28 timotimo jnthn: seems like we're just not reaching a safe point, so our list for what to free at a safe point grows into the million-digits
16:28 timotimo ==10310== 38,592,512 bytes in 18,844 blocks are still reachable in loss record 1,937 of 1,938
16:28 timotimo ==10310==    by 0x4FB6488: MVM_fixed_size_free_at_safepoint (fixedsizealloc.c:249)
16:28 timotimo ==10310== 57,885,696 bytes in 18,843 blocks are still reachable in loss record 1,938 of 1,938
16:28 timotimo ==10310==    by 0x4FA26E8: allocate_frame (frame.c:270)
16:28 timotimo lots of stuff omitted, obviously, but i think that's why we do them leaks
16:29 Relsak joined #perl6
16:30 timotimo https://gist.github.com/timo/ff​fc13ab92d420074372b7fe47dc9a14
16:32 Wlattin joined #perl6
16:32 cdg joined #perl6
16:33 Wlattin Suggestions for detailed help on MAIN???
16:33 timotimo you can add Pod to your candidates as well as the parameters
16:33 moritz man, git submodule has "init", "update" and "sync". I can never rememer which one I need
16:33 timotimo and you can generate your own usage
16:33 timotimo update --init :)
16:34 moritz timotimo: was it intential that you haven't done that yet for star?
16:34 timotimo i have all the changes on my machine
16:34 moritz timotimo: erm, I meant the git submodule foearch pull thing
16:34 timotimo just not pushed
16:35 moritz oh, just not pushed
16:35 moritz timotimo: push, push, push
16:35 timotimo can do
16:35 timotimo i just wanted to look first if things will be fine
16:35 moritz well, if you push now, others can chime in :-)
16:36 moritz in particular, I wanted to see if tadzik++'s panda commit fixed star for me
16:36 dalek star: 93f7022 | timotimo++ | / (10 files):
16:36 dalek star: bring modules up to date, add File::Which
16:36 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/93f7022650
16:36 dalek star: b8ba246 | timotimo++ | tools/star/Makefile:
16:36 dalek star: bump versions to 2016.03
16:36 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/b8ba2468c1
16:36 dalek star: 26acc3f | timotimo++ | / (2 files):
16:36 dalek star: remove ufo, as rakudo now manages precompilation itself.
16:36 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/26acc3f377
16:36 dalek star: f6dc6cf | timotimo++ | / (3 files):
16:36 dalek star: Change in the readme and more modules.
16:36 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/f6dc6cfe8f
16:37 sue joined #perl6
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16:43 Woodi adx
16:47 stmuk_ I did wonder if balidor should be removed from star since there are competing frameworks now
16:47 gtodd m: my %hash; for ( "abcdefabcgbacbdebdbbcaebfebfebfeb".comb.rotor(5 => -4) ) -> $a  { %hash{$a}++ } ; .say for %hash.sort(-*.value ).[^5]
16:47 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«e b f e b => 3␤b f e b f => 2␤f e b f e => 2␤e b d b b => 1␤f a b c g => 1␤»
16:48 stmuk_ Bailador even
16:49 tadzik as a Bailador author and maintainer, +1
16:50 tadzik it doesn't feel "core enough"
16:50 tadzik I agree that it may have used to be some of the "here's something useful you can do with perl 6 even today!", but it doesn't seem particularly fitting these days
16:50 ufobat what other frameworks are actually there?
16:51 [Coke] Prancer is under development, IIRC.
16:51 kmwallio tadzik: I was actually really confused when I went to install Bailador and got an error, it took me a while to read the error and see it was already installed
16:51 tadzik hahah
16:51 tadzik that's panda being LTA though
16:51 pmurias joined #perl6
16:51 kmwallio LTA?
16:52 ufobat and Web::App::Ballet
16:53 tadzik S99:LTA
16:53 tadzik ...does this work?
16:53 tadzik kmwallio: https://design.perl6.org/S99.html#LTA
16:54 kmwallio ...
16:55 tadzik :)
17:01 RabidGravy yeah, it probably wants to catch the exception and emit something a bit more user friendly
17:01 gregf_ m: print (1...5).reduce: -> $sum,$v { $v % 2 == 0 ?? $sum + $v !! $sum }
17:01 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«7»
17:02 gregf_ ^^ i was expecting the result to be 6 :|
17:02 timotimo buh, is synopsebot offline again?
17:03 RabidGravy Boo! I go to actually make something using WebSocket and it's failing its tests again :(
17:03 RabidGravy assuming nothing changed in the module since this morning I can only assume it's a change in rakudo
17:04 skids m: print (0...5).reduce: -> $sum,$v { $v % 2 == 0 ?? $sum + $v !! $sum }
17:04 camelia rakudo-moar ae43ba: OUTPUT«6»
17:04 skids reduce has to start somewhere.
17:05 gregf_ aha
17:06 gregf_ skids: cheers
17:13 dalek star: 63da543 | (Steve Mynott)++ | modules/MODULES.txt:
17:13 dalek star: remove Bailador
17:13 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/63da543569
17:14 cur8or left #perl6
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17:16 Xliff Hello #perl6.
17:16 timotimo i'm not the only one who works on this release \o/
17:16 Xliff http://tpm2016.zoffix.com/#/61
17:16 Xliff ^ In that second example, am I the only one that can't see the operator?
17:16 timotimo i can see it
17:17 tadzik hm. I found https://github.com/tadzik/perl6-Acme-​Meow/blob/master/lib/Acme/Meow.pm#L65 in my code, and now I'm wondering what's the backstory...
17:18 timotimo that's fantastic :D
17:18 timotimo they told me i could never teach a carrot to fly!
17:18 jnthn tadzik: I...really can't remember :D
17:18 stmuk_ timotimo: oh we probably have to sync with https://github.com/tadzik/Task-Star
17:19 timotimo oh
17:19 timotimo thta's a point, yeah
17:19 Xliff timotimo, say <foo bar> ⊖ <bar meow>;
17:19 Xliff Oh! I can't see it in my bloody browser!
17:20 Xliff That's so weird.
17:20 timotimo maybe he used Sans sans for that
17:21 jnthn Urgh
17:21 Relsak joined #perl6
17:21 tadzik stmuk: oh, indeed
17:21 tadzik jack_rabbit (IRC):
17:21 tadzik argh, sorry
17:21 jnthn We still have that hang on Windows in parallel spectest around S10/S11
17:21 tadzik jnthn: I assume something with dashes in pod because of some parsing... stuff? :)
17:22 jnthn Maybe...
17:23 buharin joined #perl6
17:25 dalek star: b2cbb4e | (Steve Mynott)++ | / (2 files):
17:25 dalek star: remove Bailador directory
17:25 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/b2cbb4e7d7
17:25 stmuk_ I'm also tempted to add Grammar::Debugger to star
17:26 stmuk_ oh its in
17:26 timotimo yeah. star also has the debugger commandline, but task::star doesn't
17:27 tadzik //o\
17:27 tadzik one should be generated from the other
17:27 Xliff http://tpm2016.zoffix.com/ <- REALLY GOOD presentation?
17:27 Xliff And now I am off for glasses.
17:32 * RabidGravy fixes the tests of WebSocket for a third time
17:33 jnthn RabidGravy: Is it breaking because of some Rakudo regression, or?
17:33 _nadim joined #perl6
17:34 RabidGravy no, I think it may be failing now because it has sped up :)
17:36 RabidGravy there was a potential race in the way the tests were done in that they were in callbacks in the websocket server and client, it was fine before, now the tests are passing, it's just the numbers are duplicated, out of order or just weird
17:37 RabidGravy sticking the results in an array and doing  for @tests -> $test { ok $test<result>, $test<text> } is much more reliable
17:41 jnthn ah, ok :)
17:42 jnthn Damn us making things faster :P
17:45 jnthn dinner, rest, etc. &
17:47 ZoffixWin Xliff_OFF, those are just my slides. You can get the recording of the actual presentation and the answers to some of the questions I didn't answer during it in this blog post: http://blogs.perl.org/users/zoffix_zn​et/2016/03/wow-perl-6-talk-slides-rec​ording-and-answers-to-questions.html
17:48 ZoffixWin Xliff_OFF, as for seeing operators. You likely just have a poor font in your browser that does not have that character available in it.
17:52 TimToady m: sub summer ($sum,$v) { $v %% 2 ?? $sum + $v !! $sum }; say [[&summer]] 0..5
17:52 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«6␤»
17:55 dalek ecosystem: d7045f4 | tadzik++ | META.list:
17:55 dalek ecosystem: Add Geo::Coder::OpenCage
17:55 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/d7045f471f
17:55 tadzik so, in this module I wrote a fairly idiomatic (imho) Pod
17:55 * masak .oO( iiiin &summer... )
17:56 RabidGravy POD-TASTIC!
17:56 tadzik unfortunately, it renders like like shit, both To::Text and To::HTML
17:56 masak how utterly thankless of it
17:56 tadzik and I wonder if that's renderers fault, or am I just using #| docs beyond what they were designed to be
17:57 tadzik and if the latter, could it maybe be better
17:57 RabidGravy I stopped using #| because of how bad everything looked
17:57 tadzik right. Who can we blame?
17:57 tadzik I'll look at the speculation
17:58 tadzik long story short: I think whatever is in #|'s should be respected exactly as if it was inside a =begin pod/=end pod block
17:58 tadzik but should also give you the method/sub/whatever signature for free
17:59 tadzik yeah, they're speculated to be simple text
17:59 tadzik but both mine and RabidGravy's experience shows that people expect more of it
18:00 RabidGravy tadzik, while I remember and you're here - would you be up for a patch to JSON::Unmarshal whereby if the top level object is a [ ] then it actually tries to return an array of the objects?
18:01 RabidGravy right now it just doesn't do anything and keeps quiet about it
18:03 tadzik RabidGravy: hmm, the later is clearly suboptimal
18:03 tadzik but I think I'd rather have it react to Object[] properly
18:03 tadzik if possible
18:03 tadzik as in: unmarshal to an array if the user expects a typed array
18:04 tadzik if you want an object, you should not get an array in return
18:06 timotimo "Texas Since Remarks" ?!?
18:07 tadzik wat
18:07 spanner joined #perl6
18:09 timotimo http://docs.perl6.org/language/unicode_texas  -  see the table
18:11 * geekosaur thinsk that was 3 column headers at one point?
18:11 RabidGravy tadzik, ah yes of course, it doesn't actually need "fixing" as if you have data of "[ { .. }, { ... } ]" and tell it Array[Object] then it will DTRT
18:12 ptolemarch What is "Texas" about those? "Bigger [and better]"?
18:12 geekosaur texas form, date added, remarks. but nothing has a date and the long form and remarks are run together
18:13 timotimo ptolemarch: only bigger, otherwise equivalent
18:13 tadzik ah, right
18:14 * ptolemarch nods
18:15 TimToady hmm, it doesn't say you can use Lo for alphabetics
18:16 tadzik then I'd just take care of the "silently does nothing" issue :)
18:16 timotimo should we point out Slang::Roman in that page?
18:17 TimToady m: say '山'.uniprop
18:17 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Lo␤»
18:18 TimToady m: my \山 = 'mountain'; say 山
18:18 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«mountain␤»
18:19 RabidGravy tadzik, yaw.  Also I have to "fix" JSON::Infer to generate something "constant Foo = (Array[Bar] but JSON::Class); to deals with that
18:20 spanner joined #perl6
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18:32 RabidGravy tadzik, yeah just tested with the JSON that gave rise to the query in the first place and it *just* works, which is fabulous
18:34 tadzik :)
18:38 moritz why was Bailador removed from star?
18:39 tadzik I think both people who participated in that particular discussion agreed
18:39 tadzik one of the points being "it has competition now, why should it be the one shipped with Star?"
18:39 tadzik perhaps some more detailed discussion is required
18:39 moritz panda has competition too :-)
18:40 tadzik correct :0
18:40 tadzik :)
18:40 tadzik I also wonder why LWP::Simple is there rather than HTTP::UserAgent
18:40 moritz first to market
18:40 timotimo aye
18:43 Possum joined #perl6
18:44 tadzik so now the question is: is it also best to market :)
18:45 timotimo probably not :)
18:45 ufobat what is the "nom" branch, currently?
18:46 ufobat or why is this the default branch, if you dont specify a perl6 version for travis-ci
18:47 masak ufobat: only historical reasons and inertia.
18:47 skids It's the default one that people PR/push to.  Eventually supposed to get something more like "master" IIRC.
18:47 masak ufobat: the "n" in "nom" used to stand for "new", long ago. it replaced something that everyone's forgotten now.
18:47 labster joined #perl6
18:48 RabidGravy well, if someone comes along and says "why can't I get/post binary/gzipped data" then you can point them at HTTP::UserAgent
18:48 timotimo thank god the thing it replaced isn't remembered any more :)
18:48 diakopter or the several things prior to that
18:48 photog13 joined #perl6
18:48 ufobat masak, yeah that's what i read from articles from 2011. so makes this sense for travis-ci?
18:49 ufobat i am asking because on travis my perl6 with - latest is not working :/
18:49 skids ufobat: if your objective is to test against the bleeding edge, yes.
18:49 ufobat ah! so nom is still bleeding edge :)
18:50 timotimo yeah
18:50 skids Well, not so much as experimental side-branches.
18:50 skids But it's where those get pushed when they are good enough.
18:51 ufobat good to know, thanks :)
18:52 ufobat and maybe someone has got an idea what i was doing wrong with travis-ci http://pastebin.com/5Qvzm0Pj
18:54 timotimo why don't you just link to the travis log site? :)
18:54 timotimo oh, someone didn't update panda properly
18:55 skids (for those that don't like scrolling, panda build step failed due to Shell::Command step failing due to not finding File::Which)
18:55 timotimo yeah
18:56 timotimo tadzik: didn't i tell you you'll have to include File::Which?
18:56 timotimo now how do we do that ...
18:56 tadzik oh gawd
18:56 tadzik that's correct
18:58 ufobat sorry, didnt know what the travis log seite is public to all.
18:59 * timotimo tries
18:59 timotimo tadzik: want me to PR?
18:59 tadzik yes please :)
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19:00 azawawi hi
19:00 yoleaux 31 Mar 2016 09:03Z <RabidGravy> azawawi: RARRRR!
19:00 * azawawi ducks
19:01 timotimo yo azawawi
19:01 azawawi timotimo: i noticed File::Which is getting a lot of attention lately... saw the travis logs
19:01 timotimo hm?
19:02 timotimo the travis logs of File::Which¿
19:02 timotimo tadzik: i'm not sure if i was supposed to squash the subtree commit history into a single commit. i can do that, though
19:02 tadzik hmm, I usually don't
19:02 tadzik since that's what update-subtree does :)
19:02 timotimo you usually don't what?
19:03 azawawi timotimo: https://github.com/tadzik/Shell-Comman​d/blob/master/t/02-shell-command.t#L45  # the start of the problem on win32
19:03 tadzik squash
19:03 timotimo so i shouldn't squash either?
19:03 timotimo azawawi: the problem is when we're just installing rakudo-star and perl6 isn't in $PATH yet
19:03 azawawi timotimo: i know
19:04 timotimo oh, you linked to S:C
19:04 azawawi my recommendation deprecate which in Shell::Command, recommend File::Which, drop File::Which from Shell::Command
19:04 RabidGravy if an object already has the role applied does "but" not do anything or do the copying part but skip the role applying part, or indeed neither
19:05 azawawi and on win32, fail that api on purpose since it is not meant to work on win32
19:05 azawawi nor Mac OS X
19:05 timotimo S:C already depends on F:W
19:06 timotimo i can kind of see why people would think a release is strenuous
19:06 azawawi only for the which command which was added in https://github.com/tadzik/Shell-Command/comm​it/e757695b428d73d4c0fd3e048a1f78924fc23802
19:07 azawawi tadzik: what do you think?
19:07 timotimo well, yeah
19:07 azawawi re "deprecate which in Shell::Command, recommend File::Which, drop File::Which from Shell::Command"
19:07 timotimo oh, drop F:W from S:C?
19:07 tadzik hm
19:07 azawawi yup
19:08 azawawi which is not portable
19:08 azawawi in S:C
19:08 azawawi want me to prepare a PR?
19:08 sue joined #perl6
19:09 tadzik I don't actually have a clear philosophy of what should be included in S::C, but I know I don't want it to end up being an aggregator of modules that implement stuff
19:09 tadzik since which() proved to be tricky enough, I think I agree
19:09 tadzik (to deprecate it)
19:11 azawawi the funny thing is https://metacpan.org/source/FLORA/She​ll-Command-0.06/lib/Shell/Command.pm is exactly that :)
19:12 * azawawi starts a fork
19:13 tadzik haha
19:13 tadzik maybe we should follow that :P
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19:25 [Coke] jnthn: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=115618 - looks like this just needs a compose call, yah? Maybe this one's an easy close.
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19:26 jnthn [Coke]: nah, we should actually fix it proper at some point :)
19:27 jnthn I'm pondering re-working how we do method caching a bit anyway, for other reasons
19:27 stmuk_ is anyone working on "panda uninstall"?
19:28 El_Che pretty nice perl6 thread at hackernews
19:28 El_Che ZoffixWin for the win
19:28 MadcapJake andreoss: you can totally use ==> in place of method chaining you just have two syntax things to watch out for: a closing curly will end a statement (so wrap in parentheses) and no argument subs need to be given empty postcircumfix parentheses (though this is ok to leave out at the end of a chain of them)
19:28 MadcapJake check out the docs on them (I recently added some details) http://doc.perl6.org/language/​operators#Sequencer_Precedence
19:29 tadzik stmuk: no one that I know of
19:29 tadzik it's been requested recently though
19:29 leobut joined #perl6
19:29 nine I'd say it's been requested again and again since it's inception...
19:29 yoleaux 13:41Z <[Coke]> nine: is https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=123276 done?
19:30 yqt joined #perl6
19:30 MadcapJake awwaiid++ # for the feed op docs too!
19:33 nine [Coke]: WRT #123276 I'd guess that it's been fixed. The reporter thinks so and it looks very much like the HTTP::UserAgent issue fixed by commit b384d8f777f6169052c25e5cc37353f01b8f5f1a
19:33 tadzik it now becomes a bit trickier with CUR and all
19:34 nine tadzik: you sure? https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/​core/CompUnit/Repository/Installation.pm#L255
19:35 sjn \o
19:35 azawawi hmm, you cant use 'is DEPRECATED' with 'is export'?
19:35 tadzik oo:o
19:35 tadzik I had no idea
19:35 tadzik something for me to do on the qah then :)
19:36 brosenberg joined #perl6
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19:39 moritz timotimo: do we actually need modules in top-level star if they are also provided by panda's bootstrap?
19:39 timotimo moritz: potentially not
19:39 timotimo not 100% sure how it works
19:40 moritz ==> Testing Shell::Command
19:40 moritz Could not find File::Which in:
19:40 moritz and then a list of directories
19:40 timotimo is that while trying to install panda?
19:40 moritz this is with newest panda imported into star
19:40 moritz timotimo: yes
19:41 timotimo does that newest panda already have File::Which at all?
19:41 nine there's an open PR
19:41 timotimo and, if so, does it know to install that before trying Shell::Command
19:41 timotimo nine: what, the one i made? :)
19:41 nine yes
19:43 timotimo huh, some other commits sneaked by when i wasn't looking
19:43 azawawi tadzik: please review https://github.com/tadzik/Shell-Command/pull/13
19:43 * azawawi waits for AppVeyor and Travis CI results
19:46 azawawi moritz: 'is DEPRECATED' with 'is export' is a bad mix somehow
19:46 cdg joined #perl6
19:53 cdg joined #perl6
19:53 oceanwhit joined #perl6
19:54 moritz tadzik, timotimo: I've opened https://github.com/tadzik/panda/pull/304 which is basically the same as timotimo++'s 303, but it actually works :-)
19:54 moritz and uses a squash merge
19:56 azawawi moritz: https://github.com/tadzik/Shell-Command/pull/13 ?
19:56 azawawi moritz: fix the problem from the source? :)
19:56 timotimo that sounds good
19:57 moritz *shrug* works for me too
19:58 moritz just why was the dependency on File::Which added in the first place?
19:58 timotimo i mean moritz' suggestion sounds good
19:58 timotimo i guess so that Shell::Command can still provide File::Which
19:58 timotimo with just the one use statement
19:59 azawawi moritz: because of failed which() non-portable implementation on win32
19:59 azawawi moritz: panda was broken since 2016.01 as far as i recall
19:59 azawawi moritz: these days i use zef on windows
19:59 domidumont joined #perl6
20:00 moritz azawawi: so how does your pull request solve that?
20:00 moritz I mean, a warning doesn't make it more portable, does it?
20:01 azawawi moritz: drops file-which, deprecates it...
20:01 moritz azawawi: but does that fix panda on windows?
20:01 azawawi moritz: tried 'is DEPRECATED' and it did not work with 'is export'
20:01 azawawi moritz: yup
20:01 azawawi moritz: it skips it on win32 and macosx
20:02 dalek ecosystem: ebc08af | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
20:02 dalek ecosystem: Rename META for JSON::Marshal
20:02 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/ebc08af5e8
20:02 moritz azawawi: so panda doesn't actually use which, it was only the tests that failed?
20:02 timotimo potentially, yeah
20:02 azawawi moritz: yup but tadzik was worried that people already depended on non-portable which implementation
20:03 azawawi moritz: so we need to deprecate it, then remove it later
20:03 timotimo https://twitter.com/typed/​status/715988070177370114  -  in this thread: people are really angry about that we call our ascii operator variants "texas"
20:04 stmuk_ hahaha
20:04 timotimo really angry is an overstatement
20:04 [Coke] nine - do we need tests on that one?
20:04 timotimo maybe "irritated"?
20:05 timotimo "unconvinced of the merit"?
20:05 [Coke] "who gives a f***" ?
20:06 geekosaur well, it is us-centric >.>
20:06 stmuk_ timotimo: qntm ironically claims "I have no strong feelings one way or the other" on his twitter profile
20:06 stmuk_ [Coke]++
20:07 timotimo it doesn't seem like he has strong feelings in that particular thread
20:08 timotimo today: perl6 calls operators either "unicode" or "texas". that's a thing that happens. also, people found that out and derided it on twitter. that's also a thing that hppens. move along, it's just the internet.
20:09 geekosaur "if that's the biggest complaint they can come up with about perl 6..."
20:09 timotimo that applies all the time
20:12 azawawi good night everyone
20:19 skids Shame on us for implying texans are intolerant of the french :-)
20:21 spider-mario joined #perl6
20:21 ugexe how dare they call it the goatse operator and not the man spreading his anus open operator
20:22 prammer joined #perl6
20:22 kmwallio ugexe: to call it a "man" operator would alienate a lot of people I think...
20:23 Xliff_OFF So....
20:23 Xliff_OFF (•_•)
20:23 Xliff_OFF ( •_•)>⌐■-■
20:23 Xliff_OFF (⌐■_■)
20:23 Xliff_OFF ....better glasses! Boo yah!
20:23 timotimo well, the operator itself doesn't have a representation of the primary sexual characteristics
20:23 timotimo you know, like the original picture
20:23 ugexe it also doesnt have the wedding ring
20:23 timotimo so it's gender neutral, really
20:23 timotimo which is nice and inclusive
20:24 ugexe the perl6 goatse operator needs a ring on the left hand
20:25 timotimo we don't actually have the goatse operator, do we?
20:25 ugexe its still april 1...
20:25 cjdbikeit joined #perl6
20:26 _nadim joined #perl6
20:26 jnthn m: say (^0x10FFFF).map(*.uniname).​grep(*.contains('COMBINING RING'))
20:27 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«(COMBINING RING ABOVE COMBINING RING BELOW COMBINING RING OVERLAY)␤»
20:27 jnthn No problem to put a ring on it :)
20:27 TEttinger joined #perl6
20:29 dalek ecosystem: 2b33fac | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
20:29 dalek ecosystem: Rename META file for the JSON::Class
20:29 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/2b33fac855
20:29 pmurias joined #perl6
20:30 gtodd what is slurp-rest
20:31 perlpilot unfortunate?
20:32 gtodd as in:   $handle.slurp-rest  vs. $handle.IO.slurp
20:32 timotimo gtodd: the semantics of .slurp on an opened file weren't definable without problems, so we decided to call it "slurp-rest" and have very clear semantics
20:32 gtodd errm sigh ....
20:32 * perlpilot really wishes we didn't have slurp-rest.
20:32 gtodd is there a slurp-some  ?
20:33 timotimo oh, really?
20:33 timotimo that'd be .read($n)
20:33 gtodd :-D
20:33 perlpilot I wish it were just slurp with some modifiers
20:33 cfedde .slurp-enough
20:33 timotimo also supports :bin, i expect?
20:33 timotimo read, i mean
20:34 timotimo BBIAB
20:34 gtodd perlpilot: I thought it was ...
20:34 gtodd .slurp-dwim
20:35 skids Damn, my plan to make a "french fries" operator and then call "//" "the freedom fries operator" fizzles due to no fonts having ⫽.  There's ᜶, but that would be Philippine fries.
20:35 cfedde just sorten that one to .dwim
20:35 gtodd cfedde: excellent
20:35 cfedde 'sorten'.dwim ==> shorten
20:36 gtodd perl6 -e '.dwim ;'    end of golf forever
20:36 RabidGravy there
20:36 mst alias d="perl6 -e '.dwim'" # I beat gtodd
20:37 gtodd crap
20:37 * gtodd d
20:37 Xliff Oh, god. It is 4/1... isn't it?
20:37 Xliff You know you are old when you forget April Fool's day.
20:38 Xliff Because you are just too effin tired to care.
20:38 gtodd Xliff: so you heard that perl6 has been discontinued
20:38 RabidGravy TreyHarris, in case you don't look at GH very often I have updated JSON::Class and JSON::Marshal so they deal properly with data like you have, and left an example on the GH issue which will work better than the earlier workardound
20:38 gtodd perl5 was renamed
20:38 gtodd BIG changes today
20:39 Xliff gtodd: Pull the other one, d00d.
20:39 Xliff Or then again.... maybe don't =P
20:40 RabidGravy haven't got anywhere with what I actually set out to do this morning but hey
20:40 Xliff RabidGravy: Have you decided what Vorbis lib you want, yet?
20:42 RabidGravy and there I was thinking it was a documented, open encoding scheme
20:43 RabidGravy why does it matter what lib?
20:47 RabidGravy infact afaik there is only one full codec library, but you knew that already right?
20:52 leont joined #perl6
20:52 arc__ joined #perl6
20:53 arcetera joined #perl6
20:54 buharin joined #perl6
21:02 Xliff RabidGravy, no. I was hoping you'd do all the research for me and leave me with just the coding. =p
21:02 Xliff http://www.linuxsecurity.c​om/content/view/167517?rdf   <- The mind boggles.
21:03 brosenberg left #perl6
21:05 Xliff I think I'll just go with libvorbisenc, then =)
21:06 garu tadzik: bump! https://github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew/pull/84 :)
21:07 tadzik garu: right!
21:09 go|dfish joined #perl6
21:10 garu \o/
21:10 tadzik on it now :)
21:13 tphilipp joined #perl6
21:14 Xliff Hrm. libvorbisenc is just a helper for libvorbis. *sigh*
21:14 garu tadzik: thanks! as usual, just let me know if you need anything
21:15 Xliff Actually could still be useful, though.
21:16 tadzik Done, built panda 2015.11 for moar-2015.11
21:16 tadzik seems to work :)
21:17 tadzik it could perhaps qualify for bonus points if installing panda for nom didn't result in a line saying "error: pathspec 'nom' did not match any file(s) known to git."
21:17 tadzik but it's a minor git output thing and I'm gonna let that slide :)
21:18 sjakke joined #perl6
21:18 sjakke check, check, check, is this thing on?
21:19 ZoffixWin yup
21:19 sufrostico joined #perl6
21:20 sjakke i'm checking in with some noob problems... can't install panda with rakudobrew. What info do you need to help me?
21:21 jdv79 ZoffixWin: nice presentation.  i saw it on HN earlier today.  it was confusing how to get it going though.
21:23 mst jdv79: he added instructions after realising it was posted
21:23 mst originally it was just his slides, which of course -he- already knew how to use ;)
21:24 ZoffixWin :)
21:24 sjakke am I on the right channel? is there a dedicatet noob channel?
21:25 ZoffixWin sjakke, this is a channel for everything.
21:25 * Xliff is dissecting Audio::Libshout
21:25 garu tadzik: we can achieve that by tagging nom on panda :)
21:25 garu tadzik: I'd also love it if we tagged v6.c as well
21:25 ZoffixWin sjakke, what's the full output from rakudobrew when you try to install panda?
21:26 ZoffixWin pastebin it
21:29 Xliff Rut Roh
21:32 cognominal_ joined #perl6
21:35 Xliff http://pastebin.com/mkQHe5fk
21:35 * Xliff kills Pastebin devs for putting Comic Sans in for 4/1
21:35 tphilipp lol
21:35 Xliff It's in an april1st.css file, so hopefully it will go back to normal, shortly.
21:36 Xliff So gptrixie is borking for vorbis/codec.h.
21:36 Xliff Any ideas?
21:38 RabidGravy that does look a bit special, I recall that skarsnik said that at one there was a problem if it wasn't the "real" gccxml but castxml instead
21:38 RabidGravy can't remember what the issue was
21:39 cognominal_ is parrot still supported on nqp ?
21:40 RabidGravy ah, "error: '--castxml-gccxml' does not work with c11"
21:42 eam joined #perl6
21:42 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
21:43 sjakke ZoffixWin, here it is http://pastebin.com/vtx2rghV
21:44 RabidGravy I think some distributions use castxml as an "alternative" to the real gccxml, which don't work
21:44 AlexDaniel I hate April 1st but this is pretty funny: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/​python-dev/2016-March/143603.html
21:44 eam I'm encountering the exact bug described here https://rt.perl.org/Public/​Bug/Display.html?id=123497 -- #!/usr/local/bin/perl6 executes as a shell script - using env to dispatch works as expected
21:45 eam oh, and I think I see the issue which isn't mentioned in the ticket -- bin/perl6 from osx brew isn't a binary. It's a shell script
21:45 eam I guess I just solved my own problem
21:45 RabidGravy sjakke, ah, I think that is something someone changed today, not sure if they are still around
21:46 sjakke Tried zef, and it worked fine. But it borked on me when trying to install Task::Star
21:47 sjakke I prefer the name zef.... and it reminds me of the antwoord
21:47 RabidGravy sjakke, if you have zef then you can fix the panda problem by installing File::Which first
21:48 RabidGravy it is entirely possibly that Task::Star has the same problem
21:48 sjakke could I maybe just stick with zef.... or is panda recommended for newcomers?
21:48 RabidGravy it shouldn't matter tbh
21:49 RabidGravy panda has just been around longer, more modules have been tested with it etc, etc
21:49 ugexe zef actualy doesnt mess up on star. its that some distributions in star do not declare all their build dependencies
21:50 ugexe one of which is panda, so if you are installing with panda you wouldnt notice
21:51 ugexe sjakke: its name is indeed a homage to antwoord
21:51 RabidGravy maybe at some point there should be a common role for the Build.pm
21:52 perlpilot joined #perl6
21:52 sue joined #perl6
21:53 sjakke ugexe: then i'm def sticking to zef ;)
21:53 RabidGravy it does seem a bit strange having a dependency on a particular package manager
21:54 Vitrifur joined #perl6
21:55 Xliff RabidGravy, so if the Great and Powerful Trixie is borking on vorbis/codec.h --- I'm kinda at an impasse.
21:55 Xliff Here's hoping I can do better with Xqilla.
21:55 sjakke thanks for the help guys. I'll most likely be back for more help :)
21:56 RabidGravy Xliff, at a guess I'd say your "gccxml" is actually castxml masquerading as gccxml, which I can confirm doesn't like that file
21:56 Xliff Yup. Same error.
21:57 Xliff Where can I get proper GCCXML?
21:57 Xliff And where is that file located?
21:58 RabidGravy what OS distribution are you using?
21:59 Xliff Ubuntu
21:59 Xliff And it would help if gccxml was installed. =P
21:59 RabidGravy it's entirely possible that you can install the "real" gccxml using whatever package manager and then flip the alternatives
21:59 Xliff Which it wasn't.
21:59 Xliff And it was disheartening seeing castxml as a dependency.
21:59 RabidGravy :(
21:59 Wiertek joined #perl6
22:00 RabidGravy for some reason everyone seems to want to flip to castxml
22:00 Xliff #! /usr/bin/python
22:00 Xliff #
22:00 Xliff # Emulate the gccxml command using castxml.
22:00 Xliff Fuuuuu.....
22:01 RabidGravy fwiw fedora has gone completely over to castxml
22:02 Xliff "Note: GCC-XML has been succeeded by CastXML.
22:02 Xliff "
22:03 Xliff Right there on the front page...http://gccxml.github.io/HTML/Index.html
22:03 lizmat joined #perl6
22:05 Xliff Hrm. "apt install x" hangs at 6% consistently.
22:06 perlawhirl joined #perl6
22:07 Wiertek joined #perl6
22:07 sjakke Just did my first 'hello world' with perl6. Happy times
22:08 perlpilot sjakke: congrats :)
22:09 ZoffixWin \o/
22:09 Xliff Calling GCCXML : gccxml /usr/include/vorbis/codec.h -fxml=plop.xml[]
22:09 Xliff Error: Could not run /usr/local/bin/gccxml:
22:09 Xliff Argument list too long
22:09 Xliff *sigh*
22:09 _4d47 left #perl6
22:21 Xliff gccxml has some fucked up build instructions.
22:22 Xliff Aaaand... the build fails.
22:35 Xliff Can anyone here build gccxml?
22:37 perlawhirl .botsnack
22:37 yoleaux :D
22:37 perlawhirl just checking i was online :)
22:40 Sgeo__ joined #perl6
22:42 sjakke RabidGravy: So to install Task::Star, from zef, I'm required to install another package manager. Am I correct?
22:42 Xliff Downgrading to gcc 0.6.0...just to see if it builds.
22:42 Xliff s/gcc/gccxml/
22:44 RabidGravy sjakke, that is a workaround for the situation you find yourself in at the moment, yes. It shouldn't really be the case but one of the bundled dependencies has a dependency itself which didn't get bundled by mistake
22:44 RabidGravy or something like that
22:45 RabidGravy to be honest I've never installed Task::Star as it doesn't have anything in it that I would commonly use
22:47 sjakke that just seems wrong. Anywho.... I'll stick to zef. I'll manage without it. Just wanted it because the intro material mentions it.
22:47 RabidGravy it's a mistake
22:49 RabidGravy also Task::Star came about when there were less than a third of the module than there are now and hasn't really been adjusted since
22:51 Xliff Would compiling with gcc-4.6 and g++-4.9 cause problems?
22:51 kid51 joined #perl6
22:52 RabidGravy dunno
22:53 Xliff Wheee!
22:53 * Xliff had to drop back to gcc and g++ v4.9 before gccxml would compile
22:55 Xliff Aaaaand.... still get the same error.
22:55 Xliff *SNARL*
22:55 sjakke I just want to see if I can connect and send files to my chromecast. I'm using an application called castnow and I'm unhappy with it.
22:56 RabidGravy send files how?
22:57 sjakke It's a great excuse to reboot my programming interest. Started Comp.Sci a couple of years ago, but dropped out 'cause java hurts my brain.
22:58 Xliff sjakke, It took me a long while to become cognizant in Java.
22:58 Xliff Over a decade, in fact.
22:59 Xliff It wasn't until modern IDEs started grokking Java that I finally got into it. (Android helped)
22:59 Xliff So... new development.... gccxml seems to work in an -non-root- shell.
22:59 sjakke I'm not sure what protocol castnow uses.... I need to read some of its code
22:59 Xliff WTF?
23:02 Xliff Aaaaannnd.... all of perl6 is build into root's homedir.
23:02 Xliff *sigh*
23:04 kid511 joined #perl6
23:04 Xliff This most likely means a complete reboot of perl6 in a non-root location.
23:04 stmuk_ Task::Star has documentation and debuggers!
23:05 RabidGravy sjakke, castnow appears to use a special chromecast protocol, you'll be needing to make an implementation yourself if you want to do it in Perl 6
23:07 Xliff Aaand I just blew away some uncommitted code for Match.pm -- fortunately I keep my gist updated.
23:07 * Xliff is having a bad evening. Time for beer and loud music.
23:07 sjakke Well if someone can point me in the right direction I'll get cracking
23:07 perlawhirl joined #perl6
23:09 RabidGravy https://github.com/thibauts/no​de-castv2#protocol-description
23:09 RabidGravy there you go :)
23:11 edehont joined #perl6
23:11 RabidGravy if it can be implemented in javascript it definitely can be implemented in Perl 6 ;-)
23:11 sjakke RabidGravy: Thanks man! A thank you all the way from the Faroe Islands. Probably the only Perl 6 user here ;)
23:12 RabidGravy lawks, I didn't know they had the internet there ;-)
23:12 sjakke We have great internet
23:13 Xliff rakudobrew build panda -- Fails when installing Shell::Command
23:13 ilmari it was a bit congested around the eclipse
23:13 Xliff Should I pastebin the error screen or is this known?
23:13 RabidGravy I guess half the trans-atlantic cables go that way
23:13 ilmari (mobile internets, at least)
23:14 sjakke I missed it :( it was cloudy, where I am
23:14 Xliff ==> Testing Shell::Command
23:14 Xliff Could not find File::Which in:
23:14 RabidGravy Xliff, no it's known, missing dependency on File::Which
23:14 Xliff JINX!
23:14 ilmari I only caught the last few seconds of the totality through a fortuitous gap in the clouds
23:14 Xliff Will that be fixed?
23:14 ilmari from in torshavn
23:14 ilmari -from
23:15 RabidGravy the Shell::Command that is bundled got updated with one that depends on File::Which and File::Which didn't get bundled
23:15 sjakke You were here. Cool.
23:16 RabidGravy anyhow I really was going to crash, going to plant some trees tomorrow
23:16 Xliff Yeah. So that means that panda is kinda non-installable.
23:16 RabidGravy toodles
23:16 Xliff nn, RabidGravy
23:16 Xliff I guess that sets the tone for me, as well.
23:16 Xliff Will start fresh tomorrow. Putting the perl6 stuff to bed, for now.
23:17 sjakke A local band made a music video with the eclipse in the background. One shot take
23:18 sjakke First ever to do so I think
23:18 ilmari yeah, i saw that one, impressive
23:20 jdv79 is there some sort of html parsing module yet that's fast enough?
23:22 leedo there is a partially completed libxml module, i started using Inline::Perl5 to use perl5's XML::LibXML
23:23 leedo it's fast once things get loaded, but takes about 2 seconds to get it all loaded
23:35 jdv79 yeah. ok.
23:35 jdv79 thanks
23:36 wamba joined #perl6
23:45 AlexDaniel jdv79: yes, Gumbo
23:46 AlexDaniel jdv79: https://github.com/Skarsnik/perl6-gumbo
23:48 AlexDaniel Skarsnik++ :)
23:54 DarthGandalf joined #perl6
23:54 jdv79 oh, cool.
23:55 AlexDaniel jdv79: it is really fast and it does things correctly. I've used it in the past and was surprised by how well it worked

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