Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-04-02

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 * timotimo just saw The Prestige
00:00 Xliff Is there a way to manually install File::Which without panda?
00:01 * Xliff headdesks and installs zef
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00:05 Xliff ===> Installing: File::Which
00:05 Xliff ===> Install [FAIL] for File::Which: ===SORRY!===
00:05 Xliff Could not find File::Which::Unix
00:05 Xliff *sigh*
00:06 Xliff Is there a circular reference error here? Why would installing File::Which fail because it can't find File::Which::Unix?
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00:09 timotimo good movie, btw
00:13 cognominal_ joined #perl6
00:14 Xliff timotimo, If it's the movie I am thinking of... then yes, it was.
00:15 Xliff I got Christian Bale right, but where was I getting Edward Norton, from?
00:15 Xliff ooo.... The Illusionist.
00:18 ggoebel16 joined #perl6
00:19 timotimo christian bale 100% replaced tom cruise for me
00:19 timotimo like, the tom cruise before he went insane
00:19 john51 joined #perl6
00:20 Xliff timotimo, LOL - I kinda get that.
00:21 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
00:23 timotimo another of those actors triggered 100% a "I KNOW THAT FACE!" reaction, but it turns out he's just a common background actor or something
00:24 timotimo he also looks like kevin spacey to me
00:24 timotimo but not to others
00:24 skids joined #perl6
00:25 timotimo http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0​382503/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t34  -  edward hibbert
00:26 ugexe Xliff: that looks like an nqp error, almost like precompilation isnt finding it where it wants to
00:27 timotimo didn't i recently see in some module that a top level module used all inner modules, which also used that top level module, too?
00:27 timotimo i forgot what that was
00:27 ugexe using stock rakudobrew install locations im able to install File::Which anyway
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01:18 lucasb m: sub f(| ($)) {}; f(Mu)
01:18 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«cannot stringify this␤  in sub f at /tmp/WbwYLqgh1d line 1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/WbwYLqgh1d line 1␤␤»
01:18 lucasb m: sub f($) {}; f(Mu)
01:18 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding <anon>; expected Any but got Mu (Mu)␤  in sub f at /tmp/dVFlMt5HC1 line 1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/dVFlMt5HC1 line 1␤␤»
01:19 lucasb I thought the error message could be the same for both cases, but somehow the interpreter wanted stringify something in the first case.
01:19 geekosaur that "cannot stringify this" is certainly LTA
01:20 geekosaur and makes me wonder if it blew up while trying to create the actual error or something
01:22 lucasb geekosaur: ah, right. makes sense if it died trying to create a error message...
01:22 timotimo don't we actually have a handler for when creating the errro message fails?
01:22 lucasb might be inside some subsignature handling code. I dunno where those are.
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02:17 Xliff ugexe, is there a way to install File::Which manually -- without panda or zef?
02:18 ugexe Xliff: it installs with zef for me. your error seems like it might be from rakudo itself, but im not sure
02:18 ugexe you were saying something earlier about installing into different locations?
02:19 Xliff Yeah. I need to install into a non /root location since gptrixie isn't working when logged in as root.
02:19 Xliff gptrixie runs fine if I run as a non-root user, which I find odd.
02:19 Xliff However, starting fresh with a new rakudo installation I have run into errors that seem similar to my first experiences.
02:20 ugexe from the looks of the output you posted i think the source was installed, the precompilation failed after
02:20 ugexe precompilation gets put into ~/.perl6
02:21 Xliff O shit
02:21 Xliff Sho 'nuff.
02:21 Xliff How can I make precompilation go to another world-readable dir?
02:22 Xliff Does this mean I have to compile rakudo with a non-root user?
02:22 ugexe precompilation has to be writable :(
02:23 Xliff How often does that need to happen?
02:23 Xliff I could make the rakudobrew/ directory group-writable for my non-root user. Wouldn't that work?
02:24 ugexe i'm not sure if you can change the precomp directory or not. but it should only happen once (unless something happens to invalidate it)
02:24 Xliff "rakudobrew build moar" completes successfully. It's only the module installations that fail.
02:24 Xliff Yeah, but that means that the user that compiles rakudo is the only one that can use it.
02:25 Xliff (generally speaking)
02:25 ugexe no, because precompilation will happen automatically if you use something and its not already done. so the source can be in such a global location
02:26 Xliff "can"?
02:26 Xliff If precompilation directory needs to be writable then can't each user have their own ~/.perl6?
02:27 ugexe yes, and they do
02:27 ugexe this is stuff still being worked on though
02:28 Xliff But the issue now is: "How can first-time users of perl6 get the nqp pre-compiles?"
02:28 Xliff I would say that if the rakudobrew directory is in a world-readable place, then a quiet copy of the existing precomputables should be done.
02:29 Xliff However you are saying that those only exist in the ~/.perl6 of the user that originally compiled rakudo.
02:29 Xliff Or am I missing something (which is likely)?
02:29 Xliff Don't get me wrong, I know things are in a state of flux. I am just trying to hack together a local soluition.
02:29 ugexe ~/.perl6 is not the rakudo's initial user, its every user
02:30 ugexe most of what you just said is what happens
02:30 Xliff uuuhhhh.... OK. But when you use the ~ that kinda implies the opposite. Depends on the meaining of ~.
02:31 Xliff To simplify: I only need perl6 for two users: root and my non-root user.
02:31 ugexe if you do `perl6 -e 'use File::Which;'` and you were not the user who installed rakudo, then it will precompile to ~/.perl6 if it finds the source installed. It also does this if you are the user that installed rakudo
02:32 teatime heh
02:32 Xliff The trick there is getting File::Which installed... which is where I am having problems.
02:33 Xliff perl6 -Ilib -e 'use File::Which' where the cwd is the File::Which source code?
02:33 ugexe zef -v --installed list # what does this say
02:35 dalek doc: 0ec522f | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/exceptions.pod:
02:35 dalek doc: indexfy try and CATCH, fixed for #435
02:35 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0ec522f09b
02:35 Xliff rebuilding zef
02:35 ugexe no, where the cwd is anything but the source
02:36 Xliff ugexe, now I'm conf00sled. 0_o
02:36 ugexe try to reinstall File::Which before that command too
02:36 ugexe im trying to see if the source is actually installed and the failure is in precompilation or not
02:38 Xliff "zef install File::Which" -- b0rked. I will pastebin. One sec.
02:39 Xliff http://pastebin.com/QDdTWJuK
02:39 Xliff Note that JSON::Fast installed fine.
02:40 ugexe zef -v --installed list # does this list File::Which?
02:40 Xliff Yes
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02:41 travis-ci Doc build errored. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'indexfy try and CATCH, fixed for #435'
02:41 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/120222730 https://github.com/perl6/doc/com​pare/f711a3a9360b...0ec522f09b55
02:41 travis-ci left #perl6
02:42 ugexe does `perl6 -Ixxx -e "use File::Which;"` work?
02:42 ugexe use a literal xxx
02:42 Xliff Pastebin updated.
02:43 Xliff Nol.
02:43 Xliff *ggggggrrrrrrr*
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02:43 Xliff No.
02:43 Xliff root@infinity:~# perl6 -Ixxx -e "use File::Which;"
02:43 Xliff ===SORRY!===
02:43 Xliff Could not find File::Which::Unix in:
02:44 Xliff The files are never copied because the File::Which install process b0rks when it can't find File::Which::UNIX
02:44 Xliff So seems like the error might be in File::Which
02:45 ugexe no, the files get put into place before that happens
02:45 Xliff Please note, this HAS happened to me, before.
02:45 Xliff My first day on perl6, I got this error.
02:47 ugexe its failing precompilation. zef crawls the directories and meta files to get that information
02:47 Xliff Yikes!
02:48 Xliff This calls for relaxment.
02:48 * Xliff is now playing: METHOD ONE/SEBA - Dawn Patrol
02:48 ugexe but it almost certainly has to do with paths
02:48 Xliff Yeah. I am trying to install in /usr/local/rakudobrew
02:49 Xliff Because I need perl6 access for a non-root user which means I can't do this in /root.
02:49 * Xliff headdesks.
02:49 Xliff So let's try the non-root user....
02:49 ugexe hell the errors 2nd "could not find" directory is exactly where zef found it
02:50 ugexe ... i wonder if its trying to precompile to /root/.perl6 because its first
02:52 ugexe /home/nickl/.perl6/2016.02-106-g3ac34a4 # (mine) seems like its missing the compiler-id directory for some reason
02:52 Xliff I'm recompiling rakudo under my normal user's homedir.
02:53 Xliff I have so many copies of rakudo on this VM.
02:53 Xliff rakudo == Horny Bunny
02:54 ugexe remember, 56th time is the charm
02:54 Xliff heh
02:54 Xliff No.
02:54 Xliff 666th time is the real charm.
02:54 Xliff I'm not there yet.... thank god.
02:54 Xliff s/g/G/
02:55 teatime rakudo pre-compiles to the first lib path, yes
02:55 teatime someone told me this the other day when I was seeing something unexpected
02:56 teatime perl6 -Ixxx will make it precompile to xxx
02:56 Xliff recompiling zef
03:02 Xliff non-root user now cannot find 'perl6'
03:02 * Xliff pulls hair.
03:06 ugexe did you add rakudobrew/bin to PATH?
03:07 Xliff Yes
03:07 Xliff "rakudobrew build moar" installed panda./
03:07 Xliff Now "zef" doesn't work.
03:08 Xliff ===> Install [FAIL] for zef:auth('github:ugexe'): zef:ver<*>:auth<github:ugexe>:api<> already installed
03:08 ugexe rakudobrew rehash ?
03:09 Xliff cbwood@infinity:~$ zef install File::Which
03:09 Xliff /usr/bin/env: ‘perl6’: No such file or directory
03:09 Xliff But I can do "perl6" and get the interpreter.
03:10 Xliff cbwood@infinity:~$ perl6 -v
03:10 Xliff This is Rakudo version 2016.03-72-ga87fb43 built on MoarVM version 2016.03-84-g4afd7b6
03:10 Xliff implementing Perl 6.c.
03:10 ugexe looks like it just build over the old modules, since it said zef was already installed
03:10 teatime /usr/bin/env: ‘perl6’: No such file or directory
03:10 Xliff https://www.google.com/search?q=scream+emoji&amp​;tbm=isch&amp;imgil=Njja-PTTcvxr7M%253A%253BiMet​yrfIZ3n0vM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Femojiped​ia.org%25252Fface-screaming-in-fear%25252F&amp;s​ource=iu&amp;pf=m&amp;fir=Njja-PTTcvxr7M%253A%25​2CiMetyrfIZ3n0vM%252C_&amp;usg=__oAZKOuGeHQfOBnW​JBI7k0rrPGOw%3D&amp;biw=1088&amp;bih=837&amp;ved​=0ahUKEwjN0vqy_e7LAhWJJB4KHf4gDiUQyjcIKA&amp;ei=​Izj_Vo21KonJeP7BuKgC#imgrc=Njja-PTTcvxr7M%3A
03:10 teatime wth would this print w/ smartquotes
03:11 Xliff ugexe: How can I blow away zef without doing the same to ~/.rakudobrew
03:11 ugexe look at the output of --installed list from earlier. delete the path (ends with /site) it lists Zef under
03:12 Xliff O.
03:12 Xliff "rakudobrew rehash" worked.
03:12 ugexe that points the links to the updated locations
03:13 Xliff Ooh! Looks promising, now.
03:13 Xliff Yes, but now I must worship zef because panda and zef fight.
03:14 ugexe you can install panda with zef without having zef installed (but from its source directory)
03:14 Xliff The bee's knees!!! -> "zef install Gumbo DateTime::Math DateTime::Parse DateTime::Format"
03:15 Xliff Next will be Readline.
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03:20 Xliff And we're done. Thanks ugexe! It's working now.
03:20 Xliff Now I can finally get on with what I WANTED to do! o_O
03:20 ugexe 56th time is always the charm
03:21 Xliff Dude, we are way beyond the 5 6th.
03:21 Xliff More like the 6 7th.
03:21 Xliff But I don't care as long as the end result is positive.
03:22 Xliff ugexe, thank you for that!!!
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03:40 Xliff Aaand... gptrixie works!!
03:40 Xliff Now I have to figure out what to do with the output... :/
03:41 Xliff But this is an awesome stopping point.
03:41 Xliff *whew*
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05:14 kaare_ What does "Cannot invoke object with invocation handler in this context" mean?
05:14 kaare_ http://pastebin.com/nZzJic6t
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05:15 kaare_ Happens when I try to call he native sub. Is native and multi a bad pair?
05:20 sortiz joined #perl6
05:21 sortiz \o #perl6
05:21 jdv79 kaare_: perl6 seems asleep
05:22 Xliff \o sortix
05:22 jdv79 sortiz: sup?
05:22 Xliff s/x/z/
05:22 dalek DBIish: 09835a3 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | / (2 files):
05:22 dalek DBIish: Remove Data:Dump dependency
05:22 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/09835a3722
05:23 Xliff kaare_, I would try to remove the multi since one is native and the other is not.
05:23 Xliff Just to see if your hypothesis is correct.
05:23 Xliff Please note, this is a diagnostic suggestion and more of a Wild Assed Guess.
05:25 sortiz jdv79, ??
05:26 jdv79 sortiz: you "said hi" no?  that's all i really did in response.
05:27 sortiz :)
05:27 * jdv79 is 1/2 alseep and 1/2 drinked
05:27 kaare_ Xliff: I tried that already, and it works. I just wonder if it's supposed to be like this, and perhaps to get an explanation
05:27 MadcapJake Never seen this error before: «Cannot find method 'mixin_attribute'   in any mixin at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 1286»
05:27 kaare_ jdv79: Well, it's early morning where most perl6'ers are located, I guess
05:28 kaare_ Perl 6'ers? 6 Perl'ers?
05:28 MadcapJake that error popped up from an interpolation inside a regex
05:28 MadcapJake quite strange
05:29 MadcapJake I think we should go with Sixians or Sixites :)
05:29 jdv79 i guess EU-ish is where the majority are these days
05:29 kaare_ Sixians sounds like a sect og Alien believers ;-)
05:29 kaare_ of
05:29 MadcapJake I hate it when errors seem to resolve after a restart :P makes you wonder if it'll pop up again someday
05:30 MadcapJake kaare_: excellent :)
05:30 sortiz latest panda is broken! /o\
05:30 MadcapJake oi, thank goodness I've avoided updating
05:30 kaare_ "I believe in the Gods from the Planet Perl Six!"
05:30 * MadcapJake is trying to finish this darn issue submitter X_X
05:31 MadcapJake Perl 6 does kind of sound like "the sixth planet in the Perl system" :P
05:31 Xliff sortiz, that is Shell::Command missing a dependency on File::Which.
05:31 Xliff For now, use zef.
05:31 teatime MadcapJake: lol, I love it
05:32 Xliff MadcapJake, LOL! 6th planet from the sun Perl.
05:32 Xliff MadcapJake++
05:32 teatime Captain's log, stardate 27454.3.  We are en route to Perl 6, where we will be picking up Randal Schwartz, federation ambassador to the Perl system …
05:32 * Xliff tried to place it in a Star Trek context but remembers that Seti Alpha V was blown up.
05:32 sortiz Xliff, Yes, but most travis-ci testing depends on panda
05:32 Xliff teatime, ROFLMAO
05:32 MadcapJake "In the system that's captured the hearts of Astronomers everywhere, the sixth planet has been found to contain life-sustaining atmosphere and perhaps even flora and fauna.  The team to discover it have dubbed it Camelia and who knows, maybe humanity will step foot there someday" :)
05:33 MadcapJake teatime: xD
05:33 Xliff sortiz....
05:33 Xliff ¯_(ツ)_/¯
05:34 jdv79 aare_: perl6 seems asleep
05:34 MadcapJake If Perl 6 takes off, there totally needs to be a spoof on that ala those Java/Scala videos
05:34 jdv79 oops
05:34 teatime Xliff: the question is, did you hear Patrick Stewart in your head as you read that
05:34 jdv79 Perl6 better f'ing take off!  i'm tired of p5.
05:35 MadcapJake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnqAXuLZlaE
05:35 kaare_ I'm more tired of Javascript. So pmurias better do his job right!!
05:37 kaare_ Btw, how come there's no .Frac method for Num or Rat?
05:37 geekosaur joined #perl6
05:37 MadcapJake kaare_: Frac?
05:37 kaare_ Just giving the fractional part as an Int
05:38 Xliff teatime, No comment (yes, of course I did... you idjiot!)
05:39 lucs m: "a 3 b 5 a 4 x 7" ~~ m:g/ a \s+ (.*?) <[a..z]> /; say "<$_>" for $/.list; # Why are 'b' and 'x' captured?
05:39 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«<a 3 b>␤<a 4 x>␤»
05:40 jdv79 l6 better f'ing take off!  i'm tired of p5.
05:40 jdv79 l6 better f'ing take off!  i'm tired of p5.
05:41 jdv79 sorry.  sloppy on the keyboard.
05:42 * kaare_ hates l6
05:42 jdv79 :)
05:44 lucs Meh, Why is the 'a' captured too, come to think of it (I'm totally misunderstanding this, and will promptly go to bed and think about it tomorrow).
05:45 kaare_ lucs:  - and have bad dreams about it ...
05:45 lucs Nah, s'aright :)
05:50 sortiz kaare_, .Frac for Num and Rat is spelled .Int ;-)
05:50 lucs m: "a 3 b 5 a 4 x 7" ~~ m:g/ a \s+ <( .*? )> <[a..z]> /; say "<$_>" for $/.list; # What I want. Yes, I will sleep better :)
05:50 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«<3 >␤<4 >␤»
05:55 kaare_ sortiz: I want the fractional part as well as the int part.
05:57 kaare_ my $a = 1.2; my @b = $a.magic; (@b = 1, 2)
05:59 lucs kaare_: Seems to be missing something. What if you have 1.20, or 1.02?
06:01 sortiz m: $a = 1.2; ($a.truncate, $a-$a.Int).say; # Some like this kaare_?
06:01 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/q6WcMLXoT9␤Variable '$a' is not declared␤at /tmp/q6WcMLXoT9:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5$a = 1.2; ($a.truncate, $a-$a.Int).say; ␤»
06:01 sortiz m: my $a = 1.2; ($a.truncate, $a-$a.Int).say; # Some like this kaare_?
06:01 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«(1 0.2)␤»
06:02 kaare_ sortiz: , and then in one operation :-)
06:02 kaare_ lucs: You're right. Can't get the fraction as an int.
06:03 sortiz the fraction isn't an Int by definition :-)
06:05 kaare_ No, I'm sorta referring to the common my $int = 1.2; my @a = split '.', $int; or sth like that
06:07 kaare_ I just wonder why there's no .frac. I know it's easy to do $a-$a.Int, but there are droves of ways to get the int part in the way you like it.
06:09 domidumont joined #perl6
06:09 MadcapJake any RT/rakudobug-proficient folks on here tonight?
06:10 MadcapJake You include [perl #115726] in the subject of an email to make it a reply, right?
06:12 MadcapJake m: my Rat $i = 1.2; $i.nude.say # like this kaare_ ?
06:12 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«(6 5)␤»
06:13 sortiz m: my $a = 3.0004 but role { method parts { ($.truncate, self - $.Int) }}; $a.parts.say
06:13 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«(3 0.0004)␤»
06:13 domidumont joined #perl6
06:14 MadcapJake m: my $i = 1.2; say $i.Str.split('.')».Int
06:14 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«(1 2)␤»
06:14 MadcapJake :P
06:15 MadcapJake super lazy way, right there! B)
06:15 sortiz m: my $i = 1.0002; say $i.Str.split('.')».Int
06:15 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«(1 2)␤»
06:16 sortiz :P
06:16 MadcapJake yep therein lies the lazy :)
06:17 kaare_ MadcapJake: I wouldn't think I could use that result straight away :-)
06:19 lucs m: pi.Rat.nude.say
06:19 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«(355 113)␤»
06:20 MadcapJake m: my $i = 1.002; $i.Str.split('.'); $i[1] = "0.$i[1]"; say $i;
06:20 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Index out of range. Is: 1, should be in 0..0␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/UZyk1hIlCp line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/UZyk1hIlCp line 1␤␤»
06:20 MadcapJake :(
06:20 MadcapJake forgot to assign there
06:20 MadcapJake m: my $i = 1.002; $i .= Str.split('.'); $i[1] = "0.$i[1]"; say $i;
06:20 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Index out of range. Is: 1, should be in 0..0␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ODNscN3QqK line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ODNscN3QqK line 1␤␤»
06:21 MadcapJake oh well, terribly improper use of strings anyways xD
06:22 sortiz MadcapJake, about RT, I'm not an expert (in fact I hate it), but I think yes, you only need to include the ticket number in the subject in that format.
06:23 MadcapJake ok, seems to be how I've gotten some replies (I've only got like two tickets that I'm watching)
06:23 * MadcapJake is so very close to finishing this project!
06:23 cognominal_ Can someone can explaie this https://github.com/tokuhirom/p6-WebSocket/issues/7 ?   Apparently it gets an object of class Code instead of Block, so no .phasers method
06:24 kaare_ MadcapJake: What project is that?
06:24 MadcapJake I'm writing a Perl 6 Issue Submitter webapp
06:24 kaare_ RT issues?
06:24 MadcapJake It gives you an online field that you can use to submit bugs/issues instead of having to use email (sent to rakudobug@perl.org)
06:24 kaare_ Well, obviously
06:25 MadcapJake and it also gives you fuzzy search over all the issues already on RT so that you can turn yours quickly into a reply
06:25 MadcapJake and when you submit it will redirect you right to the ticket :)
06:26 MadcapJake on top of that, there are extra fields like compiler version, language version, and optional templates if you want some helpful guide for how to write your report
06:26 kaare_ A friendly frontend for failure findings!
06:26 MadcapJake awesome alliteration amigo!
06:27 kaare_ :-)
06:28 MadcapJake I've still got the templates part to finish but I think it's a good Beta at least (needs some users to test it out)
06:30 kaare_ Do you use a module from the list for templates?
06:31 MadcapJake nope, server does a few libcurl requests for captcha verif., submitting tickets, and getting all tickets (then converting to json and sending back to front-end).  Front-end is a regular html file with a jquery controller that communicates and builds out a few bits of html
06:32 MadcapJake kaare_: check it out: https://github.com/MadcapJake/sixbug
06:33 MadcapJake the Perl 6 is all inside app.p6sgi (it's how Crust wants it)
06:33 MadcapJake (I don't even need that ticket.json anymore)
06:35 kaare_ w/ captcha and all :-)
06:37 MadcapJake yep yep! lots of fear that this thing will cause spam but really I don't see how this is any worse than having an open email for sending bugs to.
06:37 teatime 6what did you use for capcha?
06:37 MadcapJake reCaptcha
06:37 teatime is it all in js in-page?
06:38 MadcapJake it's a div and a script src
06:40 kaare_ It looks nice pragmatism focused, real perlish :-)
06:40 MadcapJake thanks! It was recently a bunch of spaghetti and just did a transformation into some lite-OO
06:43 MadcapJake there's actually a lot of different Perl 6 features going on in there, the new regex syntax, race, hyper operator, nativecall, Instant/Duration stuff, multi methods, a subset, string and binary slurping, even a cached trait!
06:46 * kaare_ steals the subset. Was looking for the exact syntax :-)
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08:10 nine MadcapJake: we've made excellent experience with honeypot captchas. 0 hassle for users and 0 spam.
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08:17 * masak read that as "kaare_ steals the sunset", and it felt very poetic
08:36 RabidGravy MARNING!
09:02 RabidGravy so my perennial question, what templating thingy are people actually using for HTMLish sort of applications?
09:04 sue joined #perl6
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09:10 RabidGravy I suppose it starts with "those that don't need fixing"
09:12 RabidGravy and quite happy to get some file from %?RESOURCES
09:19 * RabidGravy decides to go with Template6 for the time being as it appears to fill both those criteria
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09:50 vendethiel- ZoffixWin: hey
10:01 cognominal_ m: say $++; say $++; say ++$; say ++$
10:01 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«0␤0␤1␤1␤»
10:02 buharin joined #perl6
10:02 cognominal_ not sure how that $ variable works. I have seen it in S17
10:02 timotimo each occurence of it is an anonymous state variable
10:02 moritz m: say $++ for ^5
10:02 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤»
10:03 RabidGravy http://doc.perl6.org/languag​e/variables#The_%24_Variable
10:04 timotimo m: say %24
10:04 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«␤»
10:05 cognominal_ But in my example, there are consecutive instructions and the state is not preserved. What do I miss ?
10:06 timotimo as we said
10:06 timotimo each occurence is an anonymous state variable
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10:06 cognominal_ ho, "each occurence"
10:06 timotimo yeah
10:06 timotimo if you want to refer to a state variable, it obviously mustn't be anonymous :)
10:06 cognominal_ tricky
10:09 cognominal_ my $l := (while $++ < 4 { NEXT { sleep 1 }; Int(now - BEGIN now) });  # also I discover that the value obtained from a loop form a sequence.
10:11 RabidGravy Hmm I see a Template6::Provider::Resource in my immediate future
10:11 timotimo yup
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10:13 stmuk_ odd I get HTTP::Server::Async test fails whereas travis claims it works
10:13 RabidGravy I'm going with ordering of the tests problem
10:14 stmuk_ compile time errors
10:15 RabidGravy eugh
10:15 RabidGravy anyway just out to buy some trees while the sun shines
10:15 stmuk_ maybe it only works with the current rakudo and not 2016.01.1
10:15 RabidGravy toodles
10:16 stmuk_ s/trees/beers I bet
10:16 sue tsk tsk missing delimiter
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10:21 sortiz I add a '2016.03' tag to DBIish for R*, removing the dependency of Data::Dump.
10:27 dalek ecosystem: 031c43b | (Steve Mynott)++ | META.list:
10:27 dalek ecosystem: Another meta-package for modules (with tests), fatter than Task::Star and more test orientated.  Gitlab hosted
10:27 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/031c43b138
10:43 moritz stmuk_++ # Task::Galaxy
10:45 stmuk_ Task::Universe is just "panda smoke" :)
10:47 moritz .oO( Task::Multiverse )
10:47 timotimo what, just all modules? :)
10:48 timotimo can we get some analysis piece of code that'll figure out if any modules in the star modules list have dependencies outside of what's bundled?
10:53 stmuk_ that's hopefully just parsing the meta files
10:53 timotimo i suppose we could git submodule foreach "sh -c 'git log META*'"
10:54 sortiz timotimo, need in perl6 or can be p5? ;-)
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10:55 azawawi hi
10:56 azawawi timotimo: so has the dust settled after the file-which dependency fix? :)
10:56 timotimo i didn't dare look
10:56 timotimo but i guess people expect me to do 100% of the release :)
10:57 azawawi ugexe: ping
10:57 azawawi ugexe: zef update # does not work as expected
10:57 azawawi ugexe: sometimes i need to 'zef nuke SiteDir' for it to pick up latest on windows
10:57 timotimo what do you expect it to do, what does it do instead?
10:58 azawawi timotimo: panda update... aka zef update
10:58 timotimo ah, so just refresh the module list
10:58 azawawi timotimo: update projects or modules .json file that is
10:58 stmuk_ well "zef search" (needs exact string) doesn't work like "panda search" :)
10:58 azawawi timotimo: and git pull the latest that is
10:58 timotimo git pull?
10:59 azawawi timotimo: zef seems to cache a lot of meta data... so when i change META.info, it does not pick it up
11:01 timotimo oh, i see
11:02 stmuk_ zef doesn't seem to work with gitlab urls whereas panda does either
11:03 timotimo but it at least doesn't b0rk, right?
11:05 azawawi timotimo: relying on master for a release process does not make sense for the long term. Any plans for tags/release branches?
11:05 timotimo tags/release branches of what exactly?
11:05 azawawi for maintaining different versions
11:05 timotimo sorry, different versions of what?
11:06 azawawi timotimo: something like https://github.com/azawawi/ato​m-perl6-editor-tools/releases
11:06 moritz in the long term, we should create tarballs from modules and upload them to CPAN
11:06 timotimo yes, quite.
11:07 azawawi moritz: makes sense given that github can go bankrupt, sold or simply offline
11:08 stmuk_ or alert in browsers as a malware site like sourceforge!
11:08 azawawi stmuk_: yup
11:09 azawawi timotimo: so what were you releasing btw? Task::Star?
11:10 timotimo no, Rakudo Star
11:10 azawawi i see... cool
11:10 timotimo Task::Star ought to be synchronized to what the latest rakudo star ships
11:11 stmuk_ timotimo: I can do an accouncement draft in a few hours if you don't want to
11:11 timotimo i think i can try to make it; it seems more annoying to make the modules/ folder clean tbh :)
11:12 stmuk_ ok I'll read it anyway :)
11:12 stmuk_ I need to fix the spelling of rakudo in the Mac DMG image as well :/
11:13 timotimo whoops :)
11:14 azawawi timotimo: you have a Mac? which os version?
11:14 timotimo i don't, no
11:15 timotimo not even an iphone or an ipod
11:15 azawawi i have an old iphone 5 :)
11:15 azawawi the only way i can test on Mac OS X so far is through Travis CI
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11:17 azawawi any plans for binary Travis CI ready rakudo binaries? That would increase the speed of testing considerably
11:17 azawawi on appveyor, one can ofcourse use rakudo star msi
11:17 azawawi or maybe update https://chocolatey.org/packages/rakudostar
11:18 azawawi choco install rakudostar
11:18 timotimo ah, that's our very own MadcapJake
11:20 sortiz Panda issue is now fixed, travis-ci is happy again, I'm rebuilding failed test attempts...
11:20 vendethiel- sortiz++
11:20 * azawawi off to the Sunny Spring weather outside :)
11:22 dalek star: e59b779 | timotimo++ | modules/DBIish:
11:22 dalek star: grab latest DBIish
11:22 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/e59b779b54
11:22 sortiz moritz++ # for panda's PR#304
11:23 sortiz nine++ # for merge it.
11:23 azawawi azawawi-- # for creating the problem :)
11:25 timotimo Linenoise requires Native::Resources, but it's not bundled in star
11:25 timotimo sortiz: feel free to build the dependency tool in perl5 so someone can later port it over to perl6 ... or do it in perl6 immediately :)
11:27 azawawi im always trying to make sure we have a working perl6 ecosystem on Windows and Mac OS X (if possible). If we can achieve that, we will get more users for sure. Staying with *inux alone will not get you into the enterprise
11:28 azawawi at least not in all regions. for example, the middle east is basically windows land
11:28 timotimo i'm glad you're on it :)
11:28 azawawi timotimo: not by choice btw :)
11:29 dalek star: bd903c3 | timotimo++ | / (3 files):
11:29 dalek star: Linenoise went from Librarymake to Native::Resources
11:29 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/bd903c3331
11:29 dalek star: 522e1a4 | timotimo++ | modules/ (2 files):
11:29 dalek star: grab latest panda and Shell::Command changes
11:29 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/522e1a4db2
11:29 dalek star: 1c3a719 | timotimo++ | modules/doc:
11:29 dalek star: get another doc commit
11:29 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/1c3a719124
11:29 timotimo sorry to hear it :S
11:30 timotimo there's a tool that lets you query json "documents", right?
11:32 sortiz timotimo, in fedora command line I use jq
11:33 timotimo that's probably what i meant
11:33 timotimo though now i'm half-way into a perl6 one-liner :)
11:34 nine timotimo: do you happen to have an idea for me on how to debug this? QAST -> MAST failed while compiling op callmethod: Serialization Error: missing static code ref (0x3e56318) for closure '<unit>' sf cuuid (1) from 'perl6'
11:34 azawawi curl? Net::Curl? :)
11:34 nine timotimo: <unit> is the mainline of an EVAL that's running while precompiling a module
11:34 azawawi moritz: 'is DEPRECATED' should work with all traits right?
11:35 nine Though not part of the module's code but during loading of a dependency
11:35 timotimo nine: oh lord :o
11:36 teatime timotimo: like XPath-ish things but for JSON and maybe also YAML?  I htink there are a few.
11:36 nine I've been trying to fix this for weeks and starting to become somewhat desparate
11:38 timotimo wasn't there once a way to have :exists:v on a slice?
11:41 azawawi https://gist.github.com/azawawi/​d16b47492ae5996c83458b082587e69a   # "Cannot invoke this object"
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11:56 timotimo Nativehelpers::Blob is missing from star
11:56 sortiz yep.
11:56 timotimo fortunately it recently got fixed :)
11:57 sortiz Need to add a 2016.03 tag to it?
11:58 sortiz timotimo, for easy reference?
11:59 ZoffixWin vendethiel-, hey. What's up?
11:59 vendethiel- ZoffixWin: read your talk :D
11:59 timotimo nope
11:59 timotimo well, you can if you want to
11:59 timotimo you can leave your tags behind
12:00 timotimo 'cus your tags don't check out and if they don't check out then they're not tags of mine
12:00 ZoffixWin cool cool
12:00 vendethiel- ZoffixWin: it's pretty nicely done (well, you got to love data-heavy stuff, and I do - even if it can look a bit overwhelming to newcomers) and I have but one advice: add a line before/after each piece of code, to space the code block
12:00 vendethiel- because it's really hard to read otherwise for me :P
12:01 dalek star: 7822d78 | timotimo++ | tools/star/analyze_module_dependencies.p6:
12:01 dalek star: add a little tool for analyzing modules/ for missing stuff
12:01 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/7822d78ec8
12:01 vendethiel- (the talk itself was very good)
12:02 teatime ZoffixWin: I've met more and more people who assumed the talk / features described was an april fools.
12:03 * ZoffixWin doesn't care much for those trolls
12:03 teatime no, I do mean people who legitimately beleived it was not true.
12:03 teatime such unfortunate timing :/
12:04 sortiz timotimo, that annotated tag I add to DBIish can be used for checkout.
12:04 ZoffixWin teatime, that'd be one elaborate joke.
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12:04 ZoffixWin Especially if you've seen the recording of the talk.
12:05 teatime probably they just paged through the slides.
12:05 ZoffixWin Yeah
12:05 vendethiel- ZoffixWin: you're such a prankster :P
12:05 ZoffixWin :)
12:06 dalek star: c638e32 | timotimo++ | tools/star/analyze_module_dependencies.p6:
12:06 dalek star: output revdeps, fix array assignment from set.
12:06 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/c638e3235d
12:06 dalek star: 62fd366 | timotimo++ | / (3 files):
12:06 dalek star: add NativeHelpers::Blob for DBIish
12:06 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/62fd366b05
12:07 vendethiel- ZoffixWin: slides only might not work as an introduction to the languages, though. It looks like a good "tour", however.
12:08 vendethiel- "here, let me show you everything. you won't be able to process it; but hopefully some of it caught your interest and you'll come back to us" :P
12:08 teatime I think it was probably not the best intro/advocacy for non-perlers, but I think it was just random luck that it ended up high on HN.
12:09 ZoffixWin Yeah, which is why I wish the person who posted them on HN would've posted this blog post instead :) http://blogs.perl.org/users/zoffix_zn​et/2016/03/wow-perl-6-talk-slides-rec​ording-and-answers-to-questions.html
12:09 vendethiel- ZoffixWin++ #amazing :D
12:09 teatime people too easily confuse "This is a funny example of a neat feature" with "This is something I advocate you actually do in real code and reflects typical practice"
12:09 ZoffixWin Oh well. Too late now. We got some publicity, which is good.
12:10 vendethiel- "Do you want to die as an average Programmer ? 7 Mistakes You’re Making In Your Programming Career - Stackmojo" this is why I don't browse reddit/hackernews/whatever else.
12:10 ZoffixWin hah
12:10 timotimo which is the right apostrophe to use for I'm and such? is it ‘ or is it ’?
12:11 timotimo probably something else entirely
12:11 ZoffixWin timotimo, '
12:11 timotimo is that actually ' ?
12:11 ZoffixWin Yeah
12:11 timotimo damn
12:11 timotimo that's what markdown uses for formatting
12:11 ZoffixWin m: say q{'}.uniname
12:11 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«APOSTROPHE␤»
12:11 teatime 10 years ago when I was starting projects in Perl5 I was constantly put in the position of defending that choice against Perl-specific and more-general misconceptions... I can already see (from mentioning elsewhere how much I've been enjoying Perl6 over the last couple of weeks) that the same would be true w/ Perl6.
12:11 ZoffixWin Does it?
12:12 timotimo at least vim marks it up
12:12 nowan joined #perl6
12:13 timotimo http://perl6.org/compilers/features - someone want to review this?
12:14 teatime now I'm curious; what context, timotimo.. POD?
12:14 timotimo markdown.
12:14 timotimo like, we can probably throw out the LoL row
12:14 timotimo KeySet and KeyBag aren't the right names any more
12:15 timotimo NFG as default is implemented by rakudo now, but StrPos and StrLen don't exist any more in the spec
12:15 timotimo there's no annotation that says why the Buf, buf and utf8 are +/-, same for "Native operators"
12:16 timotimo "compact arrays" are implemented, at least partially compared to what the spec speculates
12:16 timotimo and shaped arrays/hashes can also get a +/-, though a lot of that is missing from rakudo still
12:16 timotimo we could claim "basic module versioning" is now in, too.
12:17 timotimo what is "still some bugs" supposed to mean for "precedence and associativity of new operators"?
12:17 timotimo and we should probably +/- basic macros (and perhaps also macro hygiene just because macros itself is +/- then)
12:18 timotimo "Synchronization" has a +/- for rakudo, but no comment and also no link to specs or code
12:18 timotimo any comments?
12:21 vendethiel- that last one should probably be green?
12:21 vendethiel- StrPos and StrLen should just be removed I guess
12:22 vendethiel- Buf/buf should be good, native operators should be good (taking int as params, and (my int $a)++ I guess)
12:22 dalek star: 0569a67 | timotimo++ | docs/announce/2016.03.md:
12:22 dalek star: draft release announcement
12:22 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/0569a676f0
12:22 timotimo i'll build a tarball from the code so you people can test it out
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12:25 timotimo http://t.h8.lv/rakudo-star-2016.03-rc2.tar.gz
12:25 sortiz timotimo, Buf is yellow, by spec is missing only Buf[bit], and for Compact arrays, 'array' is working.
12:25 timotimo please go ahead and test if it works
12:27 Woodi timotimo: '(production)' there is a bit to strong for me :)
12:28 timotimo Woodi: i'm not going to discuss that :)
12:28 Woodi ...but stable would be ok, IMO
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12:35 timotimo we're throwing Bailador out, but we're not adding any new web app module?
12:35 sortiz "we" ??
12:36 timotimo someone suggested it, and bailador's maintainer ack'd the decision
12:39 Woodi rakudo-js is included in R* ?
12:39 timotimo rakudo-js doesn't exist yet
12:39 timotimo we're getting close to a nqp-js, though
12:39 Woodi ah, right :)
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12:51 timotimo oof. now how do i best go through the modules to see what's new? :\
12:53 timotimo moritz: do you think SVG::Plot should stay in Star? i don't think anything's been done to it in the last years :P
12:53 timotimo though that's not really a good measure of includability
12:53 timotimo maybe we should just reconsider module choice in general, as the number of modules in the ecosystem pretty much asploded since we last did a big shake-up of included modules
12:54 sortiz timotimo, trying rc2, seems that 'make rakudo-test' needs 'make install' first, I thought was solved a few days ago.
12:54 timotimo yes, it's true
12:54 timotimo make modules-test also causes the installation to re-happen
12:56 sue joined #perl6
12:56 moritz timotimo: I'm fine with it going away
12:56 moritz timotimo: it used to be in there as a dependency for Math::Model, but I've thrown that out of star a while ago
12:57 timotimo i don't mean to single out your module; it just stuck out to me because it was on screen when i looked over :P
12:58 dalek star: fef6734 | (Steve Mynott)++ | docs/announce/2016.03.md:
12:58 dalek star: reword Bailador removal and add ufo removal
12:58 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/fef6734254
12:59 timotimo stmuk_: i could have done with a bit of warning that you're about to do stuff, because i'm editing there right now, too :)
12:59 stmuk_ sorry I'll leave it alone for a bit :)
12:59 moritz timotimo: no, it's a good idea to throw it out; we should just announce its upcoming removal now, and remove it for the next release after that
12:59 timotimo nah, keep going, but let me push my shtuff first
13:02 dalek star: 20acafc | timotimo++ | docs/announce/2016.03.md:
13:02 dalek star: a few lines of changes
13:02 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/20acafcc46
13:02 timotimo stmuk_: go ahead :)
13:03 sortiz timotimo, at 'make install' I got another random "Internal error: zeroed target thread ID in work pass"
13:03 timotimo :o
13:05 sortiz And imo, 'make rakudo-test', when used, should pass *before* 'make install'
13:05 timotimo or require make install.
13:07 sortiz I remember that lizmat fixed that a few days ago, something related to use PERL6LIB in harness.
13:07 timotimo fixed it in rakudo?
13:08 dalek star: 8c4bc97 | (Steve Mynott)++ | docs/announce/2016.03.md:
13:08 dalek star: add Native::Resources and full stops
13:08 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/8c4bc97210
13:08 sortiz yep, if I remember well :)
13:08 timotimo i'm not really feeling up to also building a rakudo point release for that
13:08 timotimo and i'm not sure i want to do anything about the internal error you got
13:09 timotimo it'd be great if you could reproduce it on an up-to-date moarvm
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13:11 sortiz I've seen that error twice (At panda install time), and never been able to reproduce.
13:12 timotimo right :\
13:14 sortiz Another matter to consider: Linenoise is broken with unicode input, but Readline works well.
13:14 timotimo that's true
13:14 timotimo but Readline isn't easy to ship because license
13:15 timotimo obviously we should write our own readline library. how hard can it be, right?
13:15 sortiz lol
13:15 timotimo it's probably a good idea to point it out in the docs
13:15 timotimo also, is there a way to disable linenoise via a flag or env var?
13:15 timotimo that could be a good idea ...
13:15 Upasaka joined #perl6
13:15 timotimo how does it behave when you rlwrap it when it loads linenoise?
13:16 sortiz What's the license problem with Readline?
13:17 timotimo *shrugs*
13:17 timotimo i don't know the details
13:18 perlawhirl Readline requires a specific version of libreadline, which many users might not have by default. so you'd need to ship libreadline5
13:18 perlawhirl with R*... i dunno it that's THE license problem... but it's A license problem :D
13:24 sortiz My Readline uses libreadline v6 ?!
13:25 perlawhirl huh?? i did a fresh install of rakudo on a Centos 6 box on friday, and stuggle to get readline to build on libreadline6
13:25 perlawhirl kept throwing some error about... umm... let me see if it's in my clipboard hist
13:26 perlawhirl was reporting this failure: Cannot locate symbol 'rl_free_keymap' in native library 'libreadline.so.6'
13:27 SmokeMachine____ m: my $a = (Int:U, Int:D).pick; $a.DEFINITE.say
13:27 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«False␤»
13:27 ufobat joined #perl6
13:27 SmokeMachine____ how can I test if $a is :D or :U?
13:27 timotimo Definite helps there
13:28 timotimo .defined will allow The Thing to decide how it deals with "am i defined or not?"
13:28 geekosaur is that even meaningful?
13:28 timotimo hm?
13:28 perlawhirl sortis: what distro?
13:28 sortiz perlawhirl, see https://github.com/drforr/perl6-readl​ine/blob/master/lib/Readline.pm#L657
13:28 ufobat hi perl6 :)
13:28 timotimo hallo!
13:29 moritz \o
13:30 geekosaur so I understand :U and :D to be signature things, not things to hang off a value
13:30 geekosaur `Int' being a type object is undefined
13:30 perlawhirl sortiz: hrm... i see. i'll take another run at it on monday
13:31 SmokeMachine____ m: (Int:D).DEFINITE.say
13:31 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«False␤»
13:31 timotimo oh, now i get what you mean
13:31 geekosaur and would be rejected by a signature having `Int:D' but accepted by one having `Int:U' or `Int'
13:31 timotimo m: Int:D.perl.say
13:31 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Int:D␤»
13:31 timotimo m: Int:D.HOW.say
13:31 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Method 'say' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::DefiniteHOW'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/drscHlig47 line 1␤␤»
13:31 timotimo m: Int:D.HOW.^methods.say
13:31 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Method 'gist' not found for invocant of class 'NQPRoutine'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/H9miX4zl_p line 1␤␤»
13:31 timotimo m: Int:D.HOW.^methods>>.name.say
13:31 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«(archetypes new_type name base_type definite nominalize find_method type_check accepts_type WHY set_why CREATE bless BUILDALL new defined ACCEPTS isa)␤»
13:31 SmokeMachine____ timotimo: yes! That's it!
13:31 timotimo m: Int:D.^definite
13:31 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: ( no output )
13:31 timotimo m: Int:D.^definite.say; Int:U.^definite.say; Int:_.^definite.say
13:31 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«1␤0␤Method 'definite' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/NAkgKNHm7F line 1␤␤»
13:32 timotimo m: Int:D.^definite.say; Int:_.^definite.say
13:32 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«1␤Method 'definite' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/cs1JP9xXvv line 1␤␤»
13:32 timotimo OK, so you only get it for Int:D apparently
13:32 timotimo the others don't become a DefiniteHOW
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13:40 SmokeMachine____ m: Int:D.WHAT.can("definite").say
13:40 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Method 'can' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::DefiniteHOW'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/SBoCtWQcX9 line 1␤␤»
13:40 SmokeMachine____ m: Int:D.WHAT.^can("definite").say
13:40 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Method 'can' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::DefiniteHOW'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/NIcJiIAPJ9 line 1␤␤»
13:42 SmokeMachine____ m: (Int:D.WHAT ~~ Perl6::Metamodel::DefiniteHOW).say
13:42 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&DefiniteHOW'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/FERJ6SYMo8 line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/FERJ6SYMo8 line 1␤␤»
13:44 SmokeMachine____ m: Int:D.WHAT?.definite(Int:D).say
13:44 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/OstxKdMSuZ␤Unsupported use of ? and : for the ternary conditional operator; in Perl 6 please use ?? and !!␤at /tmp/OstxKdMSuZ:1␤------> 3Int:D.WHAT?7⏏5.definite(Int:D).say␤»
13:44 timotimo hehe.
13:45 timotimo the ? goes after the .
13:45 SmokeMachine____ m: Int:D.WHAT.?definite(Int:D).say
13:45 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
13:45 SmokeMachine____ I can't get it... :(
13:45 timotimo you can use a try
13:46 SmokeMachine____ But in that case shouldn't return true?
13:46 timotimo m: say try Int:D.^definite
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«1␤»
13:47 timotimo m: say try Int:U.^definite
13:47 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«0␤»
13:47 timotimo m: say Int:U.^definite
13:47 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«0␤»
13:47 timotimo oh?
13:47 timotimo why didn't that work up there when i tried it?
13:47 timotimo oh, it did!
13:47 SmokeMachine____ That's it!
13:47 timotimo i just missed the 0 before the error
13:47 SmokeMachine____ Maybe a typo?
13:48 timotimo no, just misread
13:48 timotimo it worked just fine
13:48 SmokeMachine____ timotimo: thank you very much!
13:48 timotimo YW
13:49 SmokeMachine____ Just the last question: why the return isn't Bool?
13:49 timotimo because it's deep inside the metamodel
13:49 timotimo and using native integers there pays off
13:50 SmokeMachine____ Ok! Thanks!
13:50 sortiz m: my Int $a; say $a ~~ Int:U; my $b = 10; say $b ~~ Int:D;
13:50 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«True␤True␤»
13:51 SmokeMachine____ m: say ?Int:D.^definite
13:51 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«True␤»
13:51 SmokeMachine____ m: say ?Int:U.^definite
13:51 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«False␤»
13:51 sortiz m: my Int $a = 10; say $a ~~ Int:U; my $b = 10; say $b ~~ Int:U
13:51 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«False␤False␤»
13:51 SmokeMachine____ That's it! Thanks!
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13:59 timotimo stmuk_: are you looking through what changed in the modules since the last version we had in rakudo-star?
14:00 sortiz "Rakudo Star has been built and installed successfully."
14:13 sortiz a last comment: In R* p6-native-resources and Linenoise lacks tests.
14:14 timotimo Linenoise is probably difficult to test
14:14 timotimo though a "can the module be loaded" test wouldn't go amiss
14:14 timotimo er, a "can the native functions be resolved properly" one?
14:14 timotimo you know what i mean.
14:14 sortiz yep.
14:15 sortiz Testing R* now in 32 bits.
14:15 timotimo and native-resources seems kinda hard to test
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14:23 sortiz I see, native-resource is used to build Linenoise's libs.
14:26 hoelzro timotimo: re: your question if linenoise can be disabled, it won't be used if it can't be loaded. or are you talking about something else?
14:27 sortiz In fc23-32bits: "Rakudo Star has been built and installed successfully."
14:27 teatime question: what happens (wrt precompiles) when the user doesn't have write-access to the 1st module search location
14:29 teatime it would seem like you should be able to install to something like /usr/local and provide precompiles; I'm assuming that's just WiP rather than a design-choice that precomps will always be per-user?
14:31 ugexe mostly, the problem before was precomps contained absolute file paths (for $?FILE) but this is (or is being) solved
14:32 teatime ugexe: you're referring to whatever you and MadcapJake I think it was were dealing with last nightish?
14:33 ugexe no. well, sort of
14:33 teatime Is there a design doc anywhere about the plan for module search and precomps?  I'm interested from a sysadmin POV.
14:33 ugexe last night ended up being about him needing to `rakudobrew rehash`
14:34 ugexe not really
14:34 ugexe mostly because its all still changing
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14:38 azawawi hi
14:46 MadcapJake morning Sixians!
14:47 perlawhirl mornin; Jake
14:47 MadcapJake crazy blizzard today in Wisconsin, USA!
14:47 perlawhirl it's a bit too early in the morning for me... almost 2am
14:48 MadcapJake haha
14:48 MadcapJake You're 8 hours behind me then :P
14:49 perlawhirl yea... australian time... no blizzards here
14:49 perlawhirl aren't you coming onto summer now
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14:49 MadcapJake nine: just looked up honeypot captchas, that's amazing that it works!
14:49 perlawhirl oh :( my american geography is terrible. i imagined wisconsin to be somewhere around maybe the carolinas
14:49 perlawhirl but nop!
14:50 MadcapJake perlawhirl: well we're a few weeks into spring but Wisconsin has been getting some weird weather patterns as of late
14:50 perlawhirl you up there hanging out at the great lakes with Mitch and Minne
14:51 MadcapJake yep yep
14:51 azawawi MadcapJake: hi.. just came back from a sunny spring trip :)
14:51 MadcapJake lucky! we've had snow off-and-on all week
14:52 azawawi wanna trade? :)
14:54 MadcapJake yes please!
14:54 kurahaupo joined #perl6
14:54 azawawi :)
14:54 xinming_ joined #perl6
14:55 perlawhirl my philosophy is... in the cold, you can always add more layers. in the heat, things aren't so easy
14:55 timotimo hoelzro: well, if it can be loaded, can it be disabled still? like if you require something that can deal with unicode characters, you'd have to manually b0rk Linenoise or something
14:55 MadcapJake woah github has commit squashing now, that's epic
14:55 kurahaupo joined #perl6
14:56 ufobat allow me a few dump questions. whats the benefit of having sessions within the (psgi) framework or within the middleware? or in other words, why does pancer implement sessions and bailador not. And why are there no sessions in Crust directly but there is a Crust::Middleware::Session in https://github.com/lestrrat/​p6-Crust-Middleware-Session? dont you always need them if you want to have states inside your web application,
14:56 ufobat like if someone is logged in or not?
14:56 MadcapJake perlawhirl: I totally agree, in cold you can control the temp, in the summer you can only go as far as your birthday suit and even then, most people don't like the look ;)
14:56 perlawhirl MadcapJake: hah! also, i know i'm getting tired because i just went to look up squashing on google and typed 'cmomit squasking'
14:56 perlawhirl google still knew what i was talking about
14:57 timotimo ufobat: could do it by passing around a parameter in all URLs :)
14:58 timotimo remembering headers like IP, user agent, size of browser window, installed extensions and their versions ... :
14:58 hoelzro timotimo: ahhh
14:58 timotimo :P
14:58 ufobat okay, so its missing :)
14:58 hoelzro I was thinking of adding a RAKUDO_LINE_EDITOR env var
14:58 timotimo i've not tried Crust yet
14:58 perlawhirl MadcapJake: ahh, sqashing is cool. saves you from piling up those mini-commits (spelling/grammar/typo corrections)
14:59 ufobat me neither, but i wanted to have authenticaten right from the start. and the easiest way seems to be crust with the http basic authentication... but actually i wanted to do it in my webapp myself
14:59 ufobat then in general, should sessions be in the middleware or in the framework? i am not familiar witih writing web thingies
14:59 timotimo http basic auth is sadly super annoying for the user
15:00 timotimo because the "enter your username and password" page cannot be styled
15:00 MadcapJake perlawhirl: yeah, I've submitted a few PRs before where the maintainer says "please squash your commits".  It's about keeping a clean commit/feature philosophy
15:00 ufobat yeah!!
15:00 ufobat but i am the only user and no auth is even more anoying to me :D
15:00 timotimo if that wasn't a problem, it would be pretty cool, as it can do challenge-response, IIRC
15:02 ufobat i guess adding sessions to bailador is pretty easy, so i am wondering why its not already there.. because of design reasons? tadzik?
15:02 timotimo tadzik doesn't have so much time to work on p6 stuff
15:02 timotimo so if bailador will get sessions, it'll probably be contributed by a fan
15:03 ufobat sounds like a job for me :D i guess my p6 foo is so low that i'd better not do that already :D
15:04 timotimo ^- that's also a bit of the reason why we're throwing Bailador out of Star
15:05 ufobat that bailador fans have a low p6 skill?
15:05 ufobat ;D
15:05 timotimo nah :)
15:10 tadzik oh no, there's quite a lot of valuable contributions coming in :)
15:10 timotimo oh, cool
15:10 timotimo so then why did we throw it out of Star? :P
15:10 timotimo and not put any replacement in
15:10 tadzik well, quite a few maybe
15:10 tadzik I'unno
15:10 tadzik not putting a replacement in is kind of icky, yeah
15:10 timotimo well, you supported the call to throw it out :D
15:10 tadzik it sends a message of "we're not putting webdev stuff into star"
15:10 tadzik yeah, now I'm having 2nd thoughts :)
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15:12 raoulvdberge hey guys, finally decided that today is the day I try out perl 6. gonna make a Forth clone
15:12 tadzik awesome :)
15:12 MadcapJake raoulvdberge: sweet!
15:12 timotimo i don't have an idea what all the different web app modules have to offer
15:13 raoulvdberge should be fun :)
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15:15 MadcapJake Sixians: should the Issue Submitter have a WYSIWYG editor or just plain text?
15:15 MadcapJake i'm leaning towards WYSIWYG as RT supports email-style html
15:17 timotimo SGTM
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15:18 Herby_ Morning, everyone!
15:18 Herby_ \o
15:18 * MadcapJake is in full-on throws of yak shaving xD
15:18 timotimo ohai herby
15:19 arnsholt MadcapJake: have you reached the inception yak shave yet? Where you find another yak to shave before you can finish shaving the first yak? =)
15:19 MadcapJake oh yes, i'm like three layers deep
15:20 timotimo isn't that how it usually goes?
15:21 teatime MadcapJake: I vote against sending HTML mails.
15:21 timotimo it's less about mails and more about the RT web interface, IMO.
15:21 timotimo and as long as we just accept bold/italic/underline and preformatted text for pasted code and terminal output and such
15:22 cyberviking joined #perl6
15:24 MadcapJake teatime: I would just allow the basics like timotimo said, nothing special
15:24 timotimo write a nice regex to validate that html :D :D
15:25 domidumont joined #perl6
15:25 MadcapJake oi! I would but I think that the editor I have in mind does that for you
15:25 timotimo nothing prevents the user from sending whatever they like with Inspect Element and other such tools
15:25 cyberviking joined #perl6
15:26 MadcapJake that's true! I should probably do some server-side validating then eh?
15:26 teatime always.
15:26 timotimo yes, always
15:27 MadcapJake great, another yak to shave ;)
15:28 cyberviking joined #perl6
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15:54 stmuk_ timotimo: back and I can flesh out some module change doc
15:54 stmuk_ shortly
15:55 timotimo that'd be fantastic
15:55 timotimo don't forget the new cover sheets for those TPS reports
15:55 timotimo oh. my. god.
15:55 timotimo Timo's Perl Six Reports
15:55 stmuk_ riiiight
15:59 Skarsnik huhu
16:02 khw joined #perl6
16:03 TimToady timotimo: I believe the "precedence and associativity of new operators" bugs were fixed before Christmas, we even got thunking to propagate to new operators
16:10 TimToady maybe we should call ourselves '1337 S!x0rs'  :)
16:11 ugexe stmuk_: there is an error in your META6 source-url. it has `gitlabs.com` instead of `gitlab.com`
16:13 DarthGandalf joined #perl6
16:16 sue joined #perl6
16:17 Skarsnik can my blog post on gptrixie be on the next weekly? I fail the publish date when publishing it so it does not shows x) http://blogs.perl.org/users/sylvain_colinet/2016/​03/rewriting-gumbo-binding---a-gptrixie-demo.html
16:21 iH2O joined #perl6
16:21 ZoffixWin So what do kids use for web apps these days?
16:22 tphilipp aspirin?
16:22 tphilipp ;)
16:22 MadcapJake ZoffixWin: Crust
16:22 stmuk_ ugexe: d'uh .. fixed and it looks like zef works now
16:23 RabidGravy I'm quite liking Crust and I don't really like webby stuff in general
16:23 MadcapJake timotimo: I think you need to make (TPS Reports) a real thing then :)
16:24 timotimo m: my $perline = 100; my $amount = 1; my $gb = 1_000_000_000; my $end = $amount * $gb / $perline; for 1..$end { }; say now - INIT now
16:24 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
16:24 timotimo m: my $perline = 100; my $amount = 1; my $mb = 1_000_000; my $end = $amount * $mb / $perline; for 1..$end { }; say now - INIT now
16:24 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«0.2574027␤»
16:25 timotimo m: my $perline = 100; my $amount = 1; my $mb = 1_000_000; my $end = $amount * $mb div $perline; for 1..$end { }; say now - INIT now
16:25 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«0.0146264␤»
16:25 timotimo ^- we should probably do something about this difference
16:25 timotimo m: my $perline = 100; my $amount = 50; my $mb = 1_000_000; my $end = $amount * $mb div $perline; for 1..$end { }; say now - INIT now
16:25 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«0.6685669␤»
16:25 timotimo m: my $perline = 100; my $amount = 50; my $mb = 1_000_000; my $end = $amount * $mb / $perline; for 1..$end { }; say now - INIT now
16:25 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«11.6012647␤»
16:25 MadcapJake div is faster than / ?
16:26 ugexe stmuk_: it might take till :30 past the hour till the actual install works (when its ecosystem source updates). it'll find it now because i manually forced it to add the project, but it'll take another 10 or so minutes to propogate your new change
16:26 timotimo yeah, Int vs Rat
16:26 iH2O I'm new to perl6. can someone suggest me code like "perl6 -e code f" to output the lines in f with invalid utf-8 characters
16:27 MadcapJake isn't that expected? It's creating a numerator and denominator right?
16:27 stmuk_ ugexe: ok that might explain the current "Can't extract non-existent path: False
16:27 stmuk_ " error
16:28 ugexe stmuk_: yeah. the error certainly needs to be improved
16:28 MadcapJake iH2O: what's an invalid character look like?
16:29 iH2O any invalid utf-8 character, such as e with acute accent
16:29 iH2O 233 decimal
16:29 ZoffixWin m: say 'é'.uniname
16:29 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE␤»
16:29 ZoffixWin It's perfectly valid, mate
16:31 iH2O let's say it's valid. but some are invalid for sure, and that's the ones I want to detect :)
16:31 ZoffixWin Do you have an example of what you're trying to detect?
16:31 MadcapJake the only thing you could possibly check for is UTF16 codepoints U+D800 through U+DFFF otherwise all the other invalid possibilities are at the byte-level
16:31 mst but that would almost be a spec, and then we could answer the question
16:31 ZoffixWin Do you mean detecting Mojibake? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojibake)?
16:31 mst ZoffixWin: I mean, really, dude, it's the 2nd now, don't say things like that
16:31 * mst hides
16:32 * ZoffixWin throws an empty beer can at mst
16:32 TimToady ZoffixWin: btw, it doesn't matter where the CATCH goes, it still works
16:32 ZoffixWin TimToady, oh :(
16:32 ZoffixWin m: { CATCH { say "caught" }; die "meow" }
16:32 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«caught␤meow␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/cRc_CWdcko line 1␤␤»
16:33 TimToady other than that, great talk! :)
16:33 ZoffixWin Thanks.
16:34 TimToady I kinda liked the "It's Unicode, deal with it." approach
16:34 ZoffixWin :D
16:34 kid51 joined #perl6
16:35 MadcapJake if you put the CATCH at the end of a sub, it will interfere with last-line-return semantics
16:35 TimToady indeed, though I still consider that a bug of sorts
16:36 MadcapJake Glad to hear! That threw me when I first realized it and I still wish I could put my CATCH at the end, it looks proper to me :)
16:36 iH2O if I put the single character ^233 in a file (e acute accent) and I run iconv -f utf-8 -t utf-8 I get the message "conversion error: Illegal byte sequence"
16:37 MadcapJake 󠃩.u é
16:38 MadcapJake yoleaux doesn't appear to like it either xD
16:38 iH2O yoleaux? lol
16:38 ZoffixWin MadcapJake, you prefixed the command with some weird thing
16:38 MadcapJake oh hmm weird
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16:38 ZoffixWin Some weird character that doesn't display for me
16:39 MadcapJake .u é
16:39 yoleaux U+00E9 LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE [Ll] (é)
16:39 TimToady yes, a Latin-1 é will not decode properly as a UTF-8 é
16:39 ZoffixWin iH2O, I don't get that error. Are you sure you're saving the file as UTF-8?
16:39 iH2O it's iconv on windows. do you want me to try it on linux too?
16:39 iH2O I didnt save the file as utf-8
16:39 ZoffixWin iH2O, how did you create that file?
16:40 iH2O I'm still in latin1 and making my transition to utf-8
16:40 iH2O I want some tools to help with utf-8
16:40 TimToady are you trying to deal with files that contain mixed latin-1 and utf-8?
16:40 ZoffixWin iH2O, well, that's probably why iconv doesn't like the file. You're telling it the input is in UTF8
16:41 iH2O TimToady: yes, that will happen during my transition
16:41 TimToady it would be better to prevent that, in general
16:41 TimToady rather than try to recover from mixed files
16:42 TimToady what would cause mixed files?
16:42 TimToady other than, say, a database that already contains mixed data?
16:42 iH2O I dont want mixed files, but until the whole world uses utf-8 that will happen once in a while
16:42 iH2O given I grab stuff here and there
16:43 TimToady well, usually things stay pretty granular to the file level, I suspect
16:44 TimToady so I'm not entirely sure how useful a which-line detector would be
16:44 TimToady since you'd generally want to convert the entire file, not char-by-char
16:45 iH2O I'll convert the whole files of course, but I cant guaranteed occasional "corruption" later, as I said
16:45 TimToady that being said, it would be possible to write such, but you'd have to pull in the data as buf data and do your own line-by-line decoding
16:46 TimToady might be more useful to have a mode on ordinary UTF-8 decoding that would be better at pointing out the location of the error
16:46 iH2O I didnt know the problem was next-to-undecidable :(
16:47 TimToady well, valid latin1 can look like valid utf8 without really being so, but generally you don't get a lot of inconsistency within a file
16:48 TimToady if you decode a file as utf8 and it errors, chances are you can decode the whole file as latin1 instead and go from there
16:48 TimToady unless you have a way to create mixed files
16:49 TimToady in which case it would be better to figure out how the mixed file arose than to try to patch it after losing information
16:49 iH2O who wants mixed files latin1-utf8?
16:50 iH2O but sometimes I detect nonvalid utf-i sequences only days later
16:50 TimToady nobody, but sometimes data locations (such as POSIX filenames) are encoding agnostic
16:50 iH2O so I prefer to fix the problem by hand that reget the stuff
16:50 iH2O s/that/than/
16:51 TimToady you can poke utf8 data into a latin1 database slot, and the latin1 has no way to tell that it's happened
16:53 TimToady but it's really your choice whether to try to fix things in one pass through the data, or whether you need to push purification upstream
16:53 TimToady because it'll keep giving you the same bad data
16:55 orbus_ not sure how helpful this is in your case but there are various libraries that use heuristics to examine a string and try to figure out how it's encoded
16:55 orbus_ if it's really broken up by lines, you could feed each line into one of those
16:55 TimToady sometimes you can't fix the upstream, like when the Magellen radar was randomly flipping its binary orientation, and NASA just had to deal with data frames where 0 and 1 could change meaning halfway through the frame :)
16:56 orbus_ but agree, fixing upstream so the problem doesn't happen in the first place is the first thing that should be tackled
16:56 TimToady *Magellan
16:56 orbus_ http://perldoc.perl.org/Encode/Guess.html for example
16:57 orbus_ and http://search.cpan.org/~jgmyer​s/Encode-Detect-0.01/Detect.pm
16:57 tphilipp left #perl6
16:59 TimToady one approach in p6 would be to read the file with a latin1 encoding, split lines, and then for each line try to re-encode it as latin1 -> buf8 -> utf8 to see if it works or dies
17:00 orbus_ I wonder if you might not get false positives though
17:00 orbus_ where it's really already utf8
17:00 orbus_ so trying to process it through latin1 -> buf8 -> utf8 gives you garbage
17:01 orbus_ you'd have to manually inspect all the results
17:01 teatime string -> latin1 will not do what you what you want
17:01 teatime you want to read the file in as bytes originally
17:02 orbus_ yeah
17:02 orbus_ also true
17:02 teatime oh, reading the file as latin1 -> bytes -> utf should work
17:02 teatime but why, since you can just read raw?
17:02 teatime (honest question)
17:02 teatime oh, because otherwise you can't split lines?
17:02 orbus_ well you *could*
17:02 orbus_ you'd just have to do it the hard way
17:03 orbus_ look for newlines as you read
17:03 orbus_ (which isn't that hard - just more annoying)
17:04 * orbus has spent a lot of time lately dealing with misencoded text records
17:05 dalek star: 16ac502 | (Steve Mynott)++ | docs/announce/2016.03.md:
17:05 dalek star: more blurb
17:05 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/16ac50242e
17:09 teatime Does anyone know the right incantation to make modern GTK stuff (but < Gnome 3.20 where this is apparently fixed for good) read custom ~/.XCompose ?  `GTK_IM_MODULE=xim` no longer seems to do the trick here.
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17:34 lucs Is using 「⋯.subst(…).subst(…)」 the best way to chain regex substitutions like Perl 5's  「… =~ s/…/…/r =~ s/…/…/r」?
17:35 lucs Or, s/the best/a good enough/
17:36 jnthn lucs: Yeah, though if your substitutions are simple enough then .trans can provide a neater way to do the mappings
17:36 jnthn In one pass
17:36 TimToady or: S/// andthen S/// andthen S///
17:36 lucs Oh, looking up .trans, thanks
17:37 lucs And then andthen :)
17:37 jnthn TimToady: ooh, cute...I'd not thought of that one :)
17:39 jnthn Though I've found their bigger cousins, with/without, plenty useful.
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17:54 lucs Um, it looks like S/// doesn't do what I think it would, and I can't find any documentation on it :/
17:54 TreyHarris Can I curry the second positional argument of a ≥2-ary function? I can't figure out the syntax for doing so
17:55 dvinciguerra joined #perl6
17:55 TreyHarris er, maybe the nomenclature I just used it wrong--I meant "bind the second argument so the new function becomes a one-less-ary function with the second argument already bound"
17:56 japhb What's the most idiomatic way of indicating that a class's attribute should be coerced?  Saying 'has Int() $.foo' gets "Coercion Int(Any) is insufficiently type-like to qualify a variable"
17:56 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
17:57 TreyHarris japhb: I think that's a rakudo implementation missing detail, you should be able to do it eventually?
17:57 masak m: sub foo($x, $y, $z) { say "$x $y $z" }; my &bar = -> $x, $z { foo($x, "bound", $z) }; bar("x", "z")
17:57 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«x bound z␤»
17:57 masak TreyHarris: ^^
17:57 japhb TreyHarris: Well, good that it will be there eventually, but then that begs the question of what I should use *now* ....
17:58 TreyHarris masak: oh, pointies, right. thanks
17:58 masak japhb: good question. I had simply assumed that would work, actually.
17:58 TreyHarris japhb: just use the more general type in the signature and coerce in your code?
17:58 masak japhb: maybe that's the time to write a Proxy? :/
17:58 masak japhb: feels a bit overkill, but at least that'd work.
17:59 Khisanth joined #perl6
17:59 RabidGravy TreyHarris, alternatively:
17:59 japhb masak: Yeah, I did too.  :-/
17:59 TreyHarris I'm not sure where I saw it, but I definitely read that this is just a not-yet-implemented feature
17:59 RabidGravy m: sub foo(Str $i, Int $j) { say "$i - $j" }; my &bar = &foo.assuming(*,1); bar("zub");
17:59 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«zub - 1␤»
17:59 japhb TreyHarris: Might have to.  Or write a custom new or something
17:59 TreyHarris RabidGravy: boo, I swear I tried that. One moment
17:59 japhb masak: Yeah, that does feel a bit bazooka-ish
18:00 BenGoldberg m: sub foo($x, $y, $z) { say "$x $y $z" }; my &bar := sub { foo( $^x, "bound", $^z ) }; bar("x", "z");
18:00 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«x bound z␤»
18:00 mst japhb: stick some code in BUILD and wrap a method modifier around the accessor?
18:01 TreyHarris RabidGravy: oh, I forgot the .assuming + the whatever splat, I just tried it with one or the other
18:01 TreyHarris RabidGravy: thanks
18:01 japhb mst: Huh.  Interesting thought.
18:02 mst japhb: it's a bit duct tape but if it works it would still be a relatively small amount of duct tape
18:02 TreyHarris like "my &bar = foo(*,1)", thinking it would work analagously to "my &bar = 1 + *"
18:04 masak do we have method modifiers in the ecosystem? I don't remember.
18:04 masak TreyHarris: no, whatevers don't thunk in argument lists.
18:04 masak TreyHarris: if they did, then things like .pick(*) wouldn't work
18:05 TreyHarris masak: yep, I see that now. makes sense.
18:05 TimToady lucs: it does appear that there's a bug with cascading S/// via andthen
18:05 mst masak: there's certainly something modifier-ish doable
18:05 TimToady m: say (S/Once/Twice/ given "Once upon a time")
18:05 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Twice upon a time␤»
18:05 mst RabidGravy's lazy thing wraps the accessor IIRC
18:05 TimToady m: say (S/Once/Twice/ andthen S/a/two/ given "Once upon a time")
18:05 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«atwo␤»
18:06 TimToady a rather peculiar bug
18:06 El_Che
18:06 dalek star: ae3bf37 | (Steve Mynott)++ | ports/darwin_dmg/installerbg.png:
18:06 dalek star: fix RT #127716 typo
18:06 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/ae3bf37390
18:07 lucs TimToady: Ah, still, thanks for the example (I couldn't figure out how to use the S///).
18:07 masak TimToady: are you submitting it to RT?
18:07 TimToady m: say (S/Once/Twice/ andthen S/a/two/) given "Once upon a time"
18:07 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«atwo␤»
18:07 jack_rabbit joined #perl6
18:07 mst here we go
18:07 mst japhb: https://github.com/jonathanstowe/Attribut​e-Lazy/blob/master/lib/Attribute/Lazy.pm
18:07 TimToady m: say (S/Once/Twice/ with S/a/two/) given "Once upon a time"
18:07 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Twice␤»
18:07 mst masak: the .wrap call is what I'm thinking of as 'method modifier'
18:07 lucs TimToady: Not finding S/// in the docs though. Where should I be looking?
18:07 masak mst: ah, yes.
18:07 mst since basically it's the primitive out of which before/after/around would be built as syntax
18:08 TimToady lucs: dunno offhand if it ever got documented :)
18:08 lucs TimToady: That would explain it :)
18:08 stmuk_ timotimo: I've stopped committing to star now
18:09 TimToady m: say (S/Once/Twice/ given S/a/two/) given "Once upon a time"
18:09 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Twice␤»
18:09 TimToady masak: you can RT it if you like :)
18:10 * TimToady has plenty of other things to do that he's putting off...
18:10 mst TimToady: guess why I'm in here trying to answer questions ;)
18:11 TimToady If necessity is the mother of invention, and laziness the father, then creative procrastination is the favorite uncle.
18:11 timotimo stmuk_: and i'm back at the keyboard again
18:12 * masak submits rakudobug
18:14 timotimo stmuk_: is "and much more" really accurate? :)
18:14 masak m: $_ = "Once upon a time"; say (S/Once/Twice/ andthen S/a/two/)
18:14 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«atwo␤»
18:15 TreyHarris the cap-S variant just returns rather than mutates?
18:15 masak m: $_ = "Once upon a time"; say ($_ += ", kthx" andthen S/a/two/)
18:15 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5Once upon a time' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/pJdcXWoK2K line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/pJdcXWoK2K line 1␤␤»
18:15 masak m: $_ = "Once upon a time"; say ($_ ~= ", kthx" andthen S/a/two/)
18:15 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Once upon two time, kthx␤»
18:15 masak ok, so both S/// are needed
18:16 masak but not the given
18:16 timotimo is "some bits of synopsis 9 and 11" still "missing"
18:16 stmuk_ timotimo: yes it's not just marketing hype :)
18:16 BenGoldberg m: say "abc".NFC
18:17 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«NFC:0x<0061 0062 0063>␤»
18:17 BenGoldberg m: say "abc".NFC[0]
18:17 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«97␤»
18:18 sue joined #perl6
18:19 masak m: $_ = "Once upon a time"; say (S/Once/Twice/ andthen S/a/two/); say $_
18:19 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«atwo␤Once upon a time␤»
18:20 masak oh, of course -- because S/// doesn't modify in-place
18:21 japhb mst: Thank you for the Attribute::Lazy pointer
18:22 mst japhb: I have no idea what I'm doing but my mental index of 'stuff written by people who do' is slowly starting to come together :D
18:23 Actualeyes left #perl6
18:23 japhb TimToady: S13-overloading refers to 'method postcircumfix:<( )>' and its shorthand 'method &.()'; however, Rakudo seems to implement 'method CALL-ME'; which is "correct"?  Is the spec out of date, or NYI?
18:23 japhb mst: *chuckle*
18:26 masak japhb: at some point, all those postcircumfixes turned into (multi) subs. this was mostly related to getting better static knowledge, IIRC.
18:26 masak japhb: but looking at the Rakudo source, I only see subs for the .[] and .{} postfixes. not .()
18:27 masak japhb: ...at this point I almost conjectured why that is, but I'll leave that to people who actually know.
18:27 masak also, maybe ask on #p6dev? :)
18:27 japhb masak: hmmm.  Where are those multi subs for the postcircumfixes documented?
18:28 labster joined #perl6
18:31 masak no idea.
18:31 masak but you'll find them all defined in src/core/array_slice.pm and src/core/hash_slice.pm
18:35 japhb masak: thx
18:38 beatdown left #perl6
18:48 dalek doc: ebc33e1 | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Language/nativecall.pod:
18:48 dalek doc: correct some typos and spellings
18:48 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ebc33e137e
18:48 dalek doc: 6dc34df | jnthn++ | doc/Language/nativecall.pod:
18:48 dalek doc: Merge pull request #436 from tbrowder/master
18:48 dalek doc:
18:48 dalek doc: correct some typos and spellings
18:48 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6dc34df77c
18:59 TimToady japhb: the speculation is out of date
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19:09 yqt joined #perl6
19:09 MadcapJake TimToady: any chance you saw the RFC on having a grep alternative named "where"?
19:10 sue joined #perl6
19:11 RabidGravy to save myself an awkward test, if I have %?RESOURCES in a role, will it get the resources of a module it is applied to in another distribution?
19:16 RabidGravy I'm wondering this because I'd like to make a provider for Template6 that looks in the resources, now clearly it wouldn't be too useful if it could only find the resources in its own distribution
19:16 moritz RabidGravy: I don't think so; but you can always pass %?RESOURCES to thhat method as an argument, no?
19:17 RabidGravy this is true
19:18 raoulvdberge joined #perl6
19:20 RabidGravy however the problem with Template6 for instance as the existing interface is you add a bunch of paths, and then when call "process" with the template name it requests each provider in turn to check if it can get the named template
19:20 RabidGravy there is no path to provide the %?RESOURCES
19:21 moritz does CALLER::<%?RESOURCES> work?
19:28 jsimonet joined #perl6
19:30 masak m: sub foo(--> Str(Int)) { return 42 }; foo()
19:30 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«Type check failed for return value; expected Str(Int) but got Int (42)␤  in sub foo at /tmp/tlkxkLyqgq line 1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tlkxkLyqgq line 1␤␤»
19:31 masak I might have misunderstood how coercien types work (and especially as return types)... should I expect the above to work, as in convert my 42 to "42" in-flight?
19:36 moritz masak: coercion types are only implemented in a select few places, like parameter type constraints. Return values aren't among them :/
19:36 masak *nod*
19:36 mst ah, hence why they don't work in ... fffft
19:36 masak well... is my expectation sane, is what I guess I'm asking
19:36 zakharyas joined #perl6
19:36 moritz m: my Int() $x = '42'; say $x.^name
19:37 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/mTpj5i7g6M␤Coercion Int(Any) is insufficiently type-like to qualify a variable␤at /tmp/mTpj5i7g6M:1␤------> 3my Int() $x7⏏5 = '42'; say $x.^name␤    expecting any of:␤        constraint␤»
19:37 mst japhb: I wonder if this means that you could use a coercion type for the $:foo arg to BUILD, plus the wrapper around the accessor
19:37 masak do we expect to be able to coerce return types in-flight?
19:37 masak (does *any* other language do that? it's pretty cool.)
19:37 moritz I wish we would, and expect we will, eventually
19:37 mst certainly, Moose builders+etc. expect their return value to be coerced for them
19:38 masak nice! then we'll be as cool as Moose! :D
19:38 mst I forget what Moo does. probably "didn't originally bother because I didn't notice, but somebody made it compatible later"
19:38 masak :)
19:40 Begi joined #perl6
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19:42 japhb m: class A { has Int $.base; submethod BUILD(Int() :$!base) { }; method CALL-ME($base) { self.new(:$base) } }; say A("5");
19:42 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«A.new(base => 5)␤»
19:42 japhb mst: ^^
19:44 japhb At least no wrapper needed, and the attribute has the type I want it to.
19:45 mst japhb: right, the wrapper was for if you wanted people to do $a.base("foo") or whatever
19:46 japhb mst: Yeah, for the rw case.  Hmmm, that might be a good point.
19:50 ufobat tadzik, i'll try to add sessions to bailador if you dont mind.
19:50 tadzik ufobat: yes please!
19:58 firstdayonthejob joined #perl6
20:00 RabidGravy Mmmm sessions
20:02 RabidGravy fancy making a generalised digest authentication module for both clients and servers after that?  I keep putting it to the bottom of my list ;-)
20:05 RabidGravy ufobat, you could probably repurpose the Crust session middleware for that with little trouble TBH
20:06 ufobat RabidGravy, you're talking about that, right? https://github.com/lestrrat/​p6-Crust-Middleware-Session
20:07 RabidGravy yeah
20:07 RabidGravy you can ignore the builder stuff, it just makes a wrapper for a psgi app
20:10 RabidGravy I am quite liking that part about making the class a Callable and implementing CALL-ME
20:12 TreyHarris This is very strange. This code works when input all at once to the REPL, but fails when entered line-by-line:
20:12 TreyHarris m: my %hd_prices = ( "4000 GB" => 100.38, "3000 GB" => 88.99 ); my %hash_alias = %hd_prices; undefine %hash_alias; %hash_alias := %hd_prices; .say for %hash_alias, %hd_prices
20:12 camelia rakudo-moar a87fb4: OUTPUT«3000 GB => 88.99, 4000 GB => 100.38␤3000 GB => 88.99, 4000 GB => 100.38␤»
20:12 TreyHarris see https://qpbpzfpcu72ns4omydxv.oasis.s​andstorm.io/aliasing-difference.html for the REPL output
20:16 ufobat RabidGravy, yeah i did read a bit of the code, but i didn't notice nor understand the callable thing. i am going to read the docs. i just crawled through dancer and mojo a bit
20:16 RabidGravy yeah that won't help with the Callable part
20:17 ufobat no, but with the session part itself :)
20:18 RabidGravy there is no standard for sessions, make something better than those other things
20:18 TreyHarris It's definitely something to do with the REPL, as both ways (line-by-line or concatenated) work in an executable file.
20:19 sue joined #perl6
20:20 RabidGravy never use the REPL I'm afraid
20:22 mst Plack::Middleware::Session is a nice 'bare minimum session middleware' on which you could build $whatever
20:22 mst I would think that, plus Mojo's HMACed cookie thing, plus a perl6-ish OO API atop, would be great
20:22 mst (what exactly 'a perl6-ish OO API' looks like left as an exercise to !mst)
20:23 TreyHarris RabidGravy: is that the imperative ("never use the REPL!") or indicative ("I never use the REPL")?
20:23 RabidGravy *I* never use the REPL
20:23 mst TreyHarris: english english, "I'm afraid" means "I don't and apologise for that fact impeding you"
20:23 mst well, s/means/implies/
20:24 teatime eh?  I would say it means ", unfortunately", and is still vaguely ambiguous.
20:24 mst a good start towards parsing RabidGravy might be "mst, but with less hair and more alcohol tolerance"
20:24 ufobat what does ::($something) mean?
20:24 TreyHarris mst: that wasn't the part I was asking for clarification about. "I'm afraid to tell you, you shouldn't use the REPL" vs "I'm afraid I can't help you, because I don't use the REPL"
20:25 RabidGravy the latter
20:25 mst TreyHarris: the former doesn't to my mind elide idiomatically to what he said
20:26 RabidGravy I don't use the REPL because the convenience doesn't compensate for the editor not being good enough
20:26 jdv79 some repl some dont
20:26 RabidGravy and "the editor not being good enough" is just personal taste
20:27 mst I tend to use repls very rarely, mostly for providing a demonstration of something that wouldn't fit into a single -e comfortably
20:27 dalek rakudo-star-daily: b1f812f | coke++ | log/ (9 files):
20:27 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
20:27 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/b1f812f325
20:27 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 7a8d180 | coke++ | log/ (9 files):
20:27 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
20:27 jdv79 [Coke]: what did you do
20:27 dalek joined #perl6
20:28 RabidGravy made cake
20:29 TreyHarris mst: *shrug* there were competing semiotic ambiguities there: standard English's ommission of the subject in imperatives (you never say, "you--never use that thing!" unless it's unclear who you're issuing the order to) and chatspeak's ommission of the subject in the indicative. In my dialect, you always leave the "you" out but you can't leave the "I" out. Doesn't matter, though, he's clarified now :)
20:29 lizmat joined #perl6
20:30 RabidGravy oh well, for reference I very rarely use the imperative and nearly always leave the first person out
20:31 RabidGravy maybe it's a south london thing
20:31 TreyHarris RabidGravy: or maybe you speak japanese in english? :)
20:32 mst TreyHarris: "I'm afraid" wouldn't to me make sense to follow a hard imperative - "avoid using the repl, I'm afraid" would seem more likely
20:33 sue joined #perl6
20:33 RabidGravy y'see I'd say "It's avoid using the repl, I'm afraid" ;-)
20:33 RabidGravy actually that's properly london dialect isn't it?
20:34 RabidGravy I'd definitely prefix the imperative with "It's"
20:35 teatime mst: I'm a native speaker, I interpreted it your way, however I have no problem seeing the alternate interpretation, and don't find it difficult to imagine myself using such a construction that way.  dunno why you're still on about it :)
20:35 mst RabidGravy: ah, yeah, because then you're basically saying: It's "avoid using the repl", I'm afraid
20:35 mst not one I'd form but one I could definitely parse
20:36 TreyHarris mst: might be an AmE/BrE difference--"never went to London before" would not be an acceptable elision in my dialect, so the question was whether to accept a chat elision that wouldn't generally be allowable in spoken speech, or accept "I'm afraid" as shorthand for "I'm sorry to have to suggest".
20:37 teatime lol, you guys.
20:37 mst TreyHarris: right, hence my starting with that thought and mentioning that RabidGravy is also en_UK, albeit a corrupted southern variant
20:38 TreyHarris mst: yep, I think you're right. was just adding that the semantic tiebreaker for the syntactic ambiguity you suggested isn't as clear-cut in my dialect as it is in yours.
20:39 mst TreyHarris: right, I wouldn't've expected you to know to use it without knowing RabidGravy's en_UK and that our dialects both tend in that direction. Now I just need to try and remember the converse so I misunderstead colonial english less often
20:42 RabidGravy I think there is a strong possibility that the language I use has become a sort of euroglish
20:43 RabidGravy spent a lot of time conversing online with Dutch and French DJs over the last few years
20:44 teatime mst: does this sound really weird / unnatural to you?  "How do you change those lightbulbs?"  "Never do."
20:44 teatime or also if it instead was "Dunno; never do that."
20:44 RabidGravy I'd parse them both the same
20:45 TreyHarris Is there a reason that rakudo precompile files don't include the name of the original? I ask because when something gets stuck, it makes it hard to tell what's going on when you do a ps and only see that the runtime is running ".../resources/{$LONG_HASH} build", rather than, say ".../resources/{$LONG_HASH}-panda build"
20:45 mst teatime: sounds fine to me, 'never do' meaning 'I never do', i.e. losing the preposition, seems quite reasonable
20:45 mst TreyHarris: because the initial directory structure was designed a little too theoretically
20:46 mst TreyHarris: this is one of the things that we've had discussions about changing to be a little more obvious via normal unix tools
20:46 mst so at this point I'd say the primary reason is "is didn't reach the top of anybody's yak stack yet"
20:47 TreyHarris mst: on one of the lists? I was just googling my list mail and didn't find it, but that could just be my search terms were bad.
20:47 RabidGravy I think there is code in there now to keep the original name but it doesn't report it in some places
20:47 mst there's been a discussion in here where I explained it to jnthn, who's spent too long in windows and didn't really see the point to begin with (the conversation was productive, the inferential gap was bridged)
20:48 mst and several discussions in the toolchain channel where this stuff actually gets thrashed out
20:50 * TreyHarris nods
20:51 TreyHarris Okay, so if I've done a "panda look" into a module, how does panda decide how to build and test that module? "panda build" isn't legal...
20:55 TreyHarris I mean, I can do it with 'zef' or with 'ufo', but panda works even when both of those tools are removed from my system. So I'm just wondering how, if I can, do the equivalent of what panda does so I can test it incrementally.
20:59 RabidGravy panda-build, panda-test
20:59 RabidGravy just thing wrappers around those parts of what "panda install" does
21:00 RabidGravy thin, thin wrappers
21:00 RabidGravy they might be "thing" wrappers too but hey
21:02 RabidGravy I just use "panda-test" all the time when I'm making a module, unless of course I want to run just one test
21:04 TreyHarris RabidGravy: I was familiar with that one. But I've never had panda-build do anything except write out a ~/.perl6/*/precomp/.lock file and leave it behind when it exits :-/
21:05 RabidGravy yeah, that's all it does if you don't do anything particular to build a module
21:05 TreyHarris have assumed it's a PEBKAC, but haven't found docs to tell me what to fix
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21:07 RabidGravy nah, it just doesn't need to do anything unless you have e.g. a Build.pm
21:10 RabidGravy largely because if all you have are a bunch of scripts and/or .pm files then when it comes to install it just tells rakudo, "here have a bunch of files for this distribution, be a love and install them for me"
21:11 brabo joined #perl6
21:13 TreyHarris RabidGravy: right, but that's making it hard for me to figure out how to tell panda, "given this change in ecosystem (https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/64/files), please use this new source for that dependency instead of the old one which doesn't work". if this were perl5 I'd look into the module, fiddle with the Makefile.pm, and then let the cpanm or whatever continue on its merry way
21:13 kid511 joined #perl6
21:19 RabidGravy I'm sorry I don't quite understand the problem
21:20 RabidGravy assuming the version has been upped in the interim then it's just "panda update", "panda install Whatever"
21:20 TreyHarris I didn't, either. Because there was a bug opened against the abandoned version of the module for the problem i'm seeing, I assumed incorrectly that panda was downloading that old version. But I see now it's using the correct new version, it just still has the bug.
21:21 RabidGravy eigh
21:21 RabidGravy fork the sucker, clone it, fix the bug "panda install ."
21:22 RabidGravy and at option PR the fix
21:22 TreyHarris yep. I just made the error of googling the error, finding it, finding the issue, and assuming that repo was the one I was using without verifying it in the META.info.
21:22 RabidGravy it's a young ecosystem, lots of breakage, I've fixed on average one module a week for the last year
21:26 stmuk_ hmmmm http://www.perl6.org/specification/ refers to 6.0.0 (and probably shouldn't)
21:27 firstdayonthejob joined #perl6
21:31 RabidGravy not being a user of other operating systems is the separator in %?RESOURCES<foo/bar> always a slash or is it platform dependent?
21:31 RabidGravy or at option I could actually look at the source
21:34 orbus how do people generally feel about Travis CI?  was thinking about setting it up for a module I wrote, but I'm kind of leery about handing a third party access to my github account
21:35 RabidGravy oh wait, it's *just a key*
21:36 awwaiid orbus: I think it has limited access, like read-only. Since my gh accounts are public anyway...
21:36 orbus well they must need more than simply looking at the source
21:36 orbus because anybody can do that
21:36 orbus on a public repo
21:36 orbus hmmm
21:36 RabidGravy orbus, it's OAuth so you can boot it any time you want, but it has never done anything bad, it just installs a commit hook thingy and then checks out the code
21:36 TEttinger joined #perl6
21:37 orbus oh okay, so they need to setup a hook for whenever you commit
21:37 orbus that makes sense
21:37 * orbus will think about it
21:37 awwaiid orbus: on my setup they have "Read org and team membership, Access commit status, Access deployment status, Access user email addresses (read-only), Write repository hooks"
21:37 RabidGravy can't remember the github term for it
21:37 awwaiid so yeah, like you said, hooks
21:37 orbus well I'm looking at the oauth stuff now
21:38 orbus wonder if they really need my email
21:38 awwaiid then for each hook you can inspect what it can do. let's see here...
21:38 awwaiid they use your email as part of their auth, basically
21:38 awwaiid iirc
21:38 RabidGravy and it sends you email
21:38 awwaiid anyway. They are a very widely trusted org
21:38 orbus okay, well that counts for something
21:38 RabidGravy but I use a tagged email for gh so I'd know if it leaked
21:39 orbus how's that?  some service you're using?
21:39 orbus or just the github mail addresses?
21:39 TreyHarris orbus: if you have gmail, you can add "+whatever" to your email address
21:39 orbus oh, I see
21:39 TreyHarris i.e., "orbus+github@gmail.com"
21:39 * orbus prefers not to let google read his email
21:39 RabidGravy yeah
21:40 TreyHarris orbus: then you should configure whatever email you're using to also route plus-addressed mail correctly. it's usually a simple boolean configuration option in most MDA's.
21:40 RabidGravy it's a sort of traditional de-facto standard, most sensible servers support it
21:40 awwaiid orbus: also for hooks, they are notification of event services, not write. "Webhooks allow external services to be notified when certain events happen within your repository."
21:41 awwaiid so you are really giving them read access, and the hooks are so they don't have to poll
21:41 orbus right, that makes sense - but it means they need a certain level of authorization in the account to create the hooks
21:41 TreyHarris RabidGravy: most _support_ it, but many don't support it _by default_.
21:41 orbus which explains why they want oauth setup
21:41 awwaiid orbus: right -- but hooks are only push notifications of things that they could infer from the read access
21:42 orbus yeah, that makes sense
21:42 awwaiid at least for public projects, besides the email address, I think this is extremely safe
21:42 TreyHarris at least one I'm familiar with looks to see if you have a mailbox with the same name as the +<whatever> -- if you do, it delivers the mail there instead of to INBOX, if you don't it bounces the mail. another, the same but instead of bouncing it puts such mail into spam quarantine
21:42 awwaiid now private projects... I can see some reservation there for sure
21:43 awwaiid that would be yet-another-machine that you don't control that has all your assets
21:43 orbus yeah
21:43 RabidGravy well travis-ci.org can't see private projects
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21:43 orbus it looks like they can if you use their paid services
21:43 awwaiid oh right. gotta pay for that
21:43 RabidGravy you have to use travis-ci.com and pay them money
21:44 orbus oh, I see what you're saying
21:44 awwaiid and at that point I think you're entering into a contract with them, and I betchya one of the things they promise to do under pain of law is keep your code secure
21:45 orbus right - although you'd probably want a lawyer to look at that
21:45 awwaiid and looks like they have an on-site version for those who need that extra level but all of the support/convenience of their tooling
21:45 awwaiid (like GH themselves do)
21:45 orbus the devil's in the details on this cloud stuff
21:46 awwaiid mmmmm delicious clouds
21:46 orbus like I was looking at amazon aws terms of service the other day - reading about uptime promises and stuff
21:46 orbus (and to be fair, they seem to have a pretty good record)
21:47 orbus but it looks like if it does go down for whatever reason, all they'll do is refund some of your subscription money
21:47 orbus nothing for loss of business or anything
21:47 * orbus is not a lawyer though
21:47 awwaiid they kill our machines all the time. technically they give us notice but ... it is mixed in with a bunch of other noise (is my understanding)
21:48 orbus their notification system kind of sucks
21:48 orbus not very surprising
21:48 RabidGravy I worked at a large financial organization which one or two other people here are familiar with which used a 3rd party managed VCS and it was screwed down really tight, I guess the lawyers had a lot of fun
21:50 orbus yeah, if I were running a company I'd be pretty leery about hosting code on a managed service
21:50 orbus unless it were open source anyway
21:51 RabidGravy we were dealing with some of the most stringent regulatory authorities in the world, this was a pretty tight contract
21:52 orbus yeah, if you had to do it, getting lawyered up is for sure the way to go
21:52 orbus but is that really cheaper than hosting it locally?  lawyers are expensive
21:53 TreyHarris So what's the correct way to deal with something like https://github.com/softmoth/perl6-pod-to-mark​down/commit/15caf9e9326885107a7d6d7af7e1ca0b5​5feb7aa#diff-72f325d9c98b6e543e2c4aacfb685eda -- it's a correction for Perl 6.c, but that means if you're using a rakudo-star release, the test fails.
21:54 BenGoldberg masak, C++ allows coercions in-flight... in fact, it does so by default, if you've got an appropriate type of constructor.
21:56 RabidGravy when I said "large financial organization" I may have understated it somewhat, it was in part the largest foreign exchange dealer in the world, and is probably one of the top five banks overal
21:57 RabidGravy so "expensive lawyers" are "employees"
21:57 TreyHarris I guess this is just a case where you do "panda --notests install" and move on...
21:58 RabidGravy yes
21:59 orbus RabidGravy: well, their time still costs money - but so does an admin to run the VCS
21:59 orbus in a large institution it's probably just down to management's whim
22:00 RabidGravy "outsource all the things"
22:00 orbus that's the current trend
22:01 orbus after all, if you outsource to another party, you have someone to blame if things go south
22:02 RabidGravy it may cost more to have someone do it, but it's just an annual fee rather than capital expenditure on hardware, notional staff costs with cap ex implications etc etc
22:02 RabidGravy so it goes in a different column in the spreadsheet
22:02 orbus that too
22:03 mst it's interesting that JIRA licensing seems to work out as really it's a subscription but phrased in such a way it counts as capex
22:07 RabidGravy with a view to encouraging people to use a managed service?
22:09 RabidGravy anyway I'm whacked, I spent most of the day gardening for the first time this year and bits of me ache in un-natural ways
22:09 RabidGravy toodles
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22:12 orbus later
22:38 Begi1 joined #perl6
22:39 Begi I've a little question : what does the X::AdHoc name means ?
22:49 awwaiid Begi: I think these are exceptions where there isn't a specified exception class. So you get htem if you die with a string. They are mentioned https://doc.perl6.org/language/exceptions
22:49 awwaiid Begi: basically they are generic exceptions, from what I can tell
22:50 Begi awwaiid: yeah, in fact my question was : "from where come this name, what does it mean ?"
22:51 Begi i'm just curious
22:53 awwaiid Begi: It is a built-in exception class that is used in a few internal ways, but I think the most standard user-facing ways is when someone does "die 'blah blah'"
22:53 awwaiid oh the name
22:54 Begi yes, the name :)
22:54 awwaiid AdHoc is from latin, means "formed, arranged, or done for a particular purpose only." . It means it is a one-time thing, built "on the fly"
22:54 awwaiid or you could say it is built as-needed
22:56 Begi Okey, intersting, thanks for your answer !
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23:06 Begi m: my Int $x = 42; say $x--; # shouldn't be 41 ?
23:06 camelia rakudo-moar b3b24b: OUTPUT«42␤»
23:07 Begi m: my Int $x = 42; $x--; say $x--; # shouldn't be 40 ?
23:07 camelia rakudo-moar b3b24b: OUTPUT«41␤»
23:08 AlexDaniel m: my Int $x = 42; say --$x
23:08 camelia rakudo-moar b3b24b: OUTPUT«41␤»
23:08 AlexDaniel Begi: ↑
23:08 Begi Oh, ok
23:08 AlexDaniel Begi: that's a traditional difference between postfix and prefix --
23:09 Begi but why the second $x-- works, not the first ?
23:09 geekosaur the second one did work
23:10 AlexDaniel Begi: $x-- returns the value and then decrements
23:10 geekosaur postfix -- decrements *after* producing the value
23:10 geekosaur prefix decrements *before*
23:10 AlexDaniel Begi: --$x decrements and then returns the value
23:10 geekosaur that's why both forms exist
23:11 Begi Ok, thanks for the explanations ! I was wondering what was wrong :)
23:11 geekosaur m: my Int $x = 42; $x--; say $x--; say $x;
23:11 camelia rakudo-moar b3b24b: OUTPUT«41␤40␤»
23:12 * AlexDaniel just tried this in python: x=42; print(++x); print(x) # yeah, good job, great.
23:14 AlexDaniel m: say -+-+-+-+-+-42 # for those wondering
23:14 camelia rakudo-moar b3b24b: OUTPUT«42␤»
23:21 AlexDaniel .tell RabidGravy just in case: if some website is not accepting your myname+spammywebsite@gmail.com email, then use my.n....a...me@gmail.com, because 100% websites accept dots in emails and gmail ignores them all.
23:21 yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to RabidGravy.
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23:28 BenGoldberg m: my int $x := 42; say ++$x;
23:28 camelia rakudo-moar b3b24b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/kYvrFHGe1p␤Cannot bind to natively typed variable '$x'; use assignment instead␤at /tmp/kYvrFHGe1p:1␤------> 3my int $x := 427⏏5; say ++$x;␤»
23:28 BenGoldberg m: my int $x = 42; say ++$x;
23:28 camelia rakudo-moar b3b24b: OUTPUT«43␤»
23:28 BenGoldberg m: my int $x = 42; say ++$x for 1..3;
23:28 camelia rakudo-moar b3b24b: OUTPUT«43␤44␤45␤»
23:28 BenGoldberg m: my int $x = 42; say $x++ for 1..3;
23:28 camelia rakudo-moar b3b24b: OUTPUT«42␤43␤44␤»
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23:47 ugexe stmuk_: looks like you also have to s/git:/https:/, as `git clone git://gitlab.com/stmuk/p6-task-galaxy.git` does not work, but using https does
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