Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-05-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 skink Hey timotimo, is there a list of circumstances in which Buf can or can't substitute CArray?
00:01 timotimo when you get something back from C
00:01 timotimo a Buf knows how big it is, a CArray doesn't
00:01 sortiz skink, you can't receive from C a Buf
00:01 timotimo C also doesn't know how big arrays are, at least not in a unified way
00:03 sortiz But if the C API expect the allocated space and the size, a Buf is safe.
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00:04 skink Right. c_fill/read_buffer(Buf|CArray, size) is fine, but otherwise you need to use CArray?
00:05 skink (Assuming you've allocated Buf[size-1])
00:05 sortiz In particular if the C function will allocate the space, and returns it address, you need CArray.
00:06 sortiz And you got an "unmanaged" CArray.
00:08 BenGoldberg Is there any way to distinguish an unmanaged carray from a managed one?
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00:09 sortiz BenGoldberg, yep, see: https://github.com/salortiz/NativeHe​lpers-Blob/blob/master/t/01-basic.t
00:10 BenGoldberg Also, is there any way to tell an unmanaged carray, "you are $length elements long," so that read accesses outside that will die or return failures?
00:10 timotimo nothing built-in
00:12 grondilu m: sub infix:<§>($,$) is tighter(&[+]) {0}; say 1 + 2 § 3;
00:12 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«1␤»
00:12 grondilu m: multi infix:<§>($,$) is tighter(&[+]) {0}; say 1 + 2 § 3;
00:12 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«1␤»
00:12 arnsholt CArrays are a bit wonky, in general (in part my fault, I'm afraid =)
00:12 BenGoldberg m: multi infix:<§>($,$) is looser(&[+]) {0}; say 1 + 2 § 3;
00:12 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«0␤»
00:13 grondilu it did not work last time I tried
00:13 BenGoldberg m: multi infix:<§>($,$) is looser(&infix:<+>) {0}; say 1 + 2 § 3;
00:13 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«0␤»
00:13 grondilu I mean there was a different behavior between sub and multi
00:13 BenGoldberg ahh
00:14 grondilu that's ok I'm not going to complain about rakudo not failing :P
00:14 BenGoldberg m: multi infix:<§>(@_) { [+] @_ }; say [§], 1..3;
00:14 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«Cannot call infix:<§>(...); none of these signatures match:␤    (@_)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ux8ThIdkh8 line 1␤␤»
00:14 BenGoldberg m: sub infix:<§>(@_) { [+] @_ }; say [§], 1..3;
00:14 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0␤  in sub infix:<§> at /tmp/4f9gluDuTu line 1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/4f9gluDuTu line 1␤␤»
00:14 BenGoldberg Well, that's different.
00:14 BenGoldberg m: sub infix:<§>(@_) { [+] @_ }; say [§] 1..3;
00:15 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2␤  in sub infix:<§> at /tmp/nhf0uG4eQl line 1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/nhf0uG4eQl line 1␤␤»
00:15 BenGoldberg m: multi infix:<§>(@_) { [+] @_ }; say [§] 1..3;
00:15 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«Cannot call infix:<§>(Int, Int); none of these signatures match:␤    (@_)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/36WQDSNVM3 line 1␤␤»
00:15 grondilu oh I remember now
00:16 grondilu m: module A { multi infix:<§>($,$) is tighter(&[+]) is export {0}; } import A; say 1 + 2 § 3;
00:16 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/rcXmuV5Wkb␤Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)␤at /tmp/rcXmuV5Wkb:1␤------> 3>($,$) is tighter(&[+]) is export {0}; }7⏏5 import A; say 1 + 2 § 3;␤    expecting any of:␤      …»
00:16 grondilu m: module A { multi infix:<§>($,$) is tighter(&[+]) is export {0}; }; import A; say 1 + 2 § 3;
00:16 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«0␤»
00:16 grondilu m: module A { sub infix:<§>($,$) is tighter(&[+]) is export {0}; }; import A; say 1 + 2 § 3;
00:16 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«1␤»
00:16 grondilu ^see?
00:17 grondilu it was when exporting.
00:18 ZoffixLappy May be worth reporting as a bug
00:18 zwu which module has defined LinearArray?
00:18 * grondilu reports it
00:18 BenGoldberg Yeah, that's rakudobugabble ;)
00:19 sortiz zwu, NativeHelpers::CStruct
00:19 zwu sortiz: thank you!
00:21 zwu Could not find NativeHelpers::CStruct. And Could not find NativeHelpers::Blob. Is there an option I should set?
00:24 ZoffixLappy zwu, did you install the needed module?
00:24 sortiz zwu, a simple 'zef/panda install NativeHelpers::blob' should suffice.
00:25 ZoffixLappy zef/panda install NativeHelpers::Blob
00:30 zwu oh, I have not installed any modules
00:31 zwu Is there a list about important modules?
00:31 timotimo there's only a list of all modules
00:31 zwu timotimo:)
00:36 * sortiz hesitating about the "pros"/"cons" on keep NH::* in one distro or separate them
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00:50 zwu Can we set memory alignment for NativeHelpers::CStruct too?
00:51 zwu which is important for future vectorization support?
00:57 grondilu joined #perl6
00:58 sortiz zwu, not explicitly: LinearArray depends on calloc(..., sizeof(Foo)) semantics, and Rakudo's CStruct try to use the proper alignment.
01:04 dalek ecosystem: 405185e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
01:04 dalek ecosystem: Add Bailador::Template::Mojo::Extended
01:04 dalek ecosystem:
01:04 dalek ecosystem: Extra features on top of the default ::Mojo renderer for Bailador: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl​6-Bailador-Template-Mojo-Extended
01:04 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/405185ef29
01:05 ZoffixLappy NOW, 4 modules later, I think, I can actually do work on the original web app I planned last Thursday :P
01:08 ZoffixLappy heh... npm gets 447 "new" modules a day: http://www.modulecounts.com/
01:08 ZoffixLappy Either the counter system is broken or npm stands for "New Wheel Reinvention Factory"
01:11 ZoffixLappy 1111th commit to ecosystem
01:12 * ZoffixLappy feels a pleasant feeling
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01:40 Xliff_out m: my $b = Blob.new(^100); my $c = $b[10..20]; $c.WHAT.say
01:40 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
01:46 Xliff_out say $_ for ^5;
01:46 Xliff_out m: say $_ for ^5;
01:46 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤»
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01:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:14 Xliff_out m: my $b = Buf[int16].new(0 xx 100);
03:14 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: ( no output )
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03:14 Xliff_out m: my $b = Buf[int16].new(0 xx 100); say $b.elems
03:14 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«100␤»
03:17 Xliff_out m: my $b = Buf[int16].new(0 xx 100); $b.map({$_ = 0});
03:17 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: ( no output )
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03:37 Xliff_out m: my $b = Buf[int16].new(0 xx 100); $b.map({$_ = 0}); say $b is Buf
03:37 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/F8T6ZcXFG3␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/F8T6ZcXFG3:1␤------> 3.new(0 xx 100); $b.map({$_ = 0}); say $b7⏏5 is Buf␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤   …»
03:37 Xliff_out m: my $b = Buf[int16].new(0 xx 100); $b.map({$_ = 0}); say $b ~~ Buf
03:37 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«True␤»
03:45 richi238 Hi
03:45 richi238 Is there a reason why the type num is not documented in the official doc?
03:45 richi238 https://doc.perl6.org/type.html
03:47 geekosaur because it's a work in progress?
03:47 geekosaur things that can't be found there yet are often in the older spec docs at design.perl6.org
03:47 richi238 ah okay, thanks
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04:16 ugexe seems perl6 has totally lost flussence now. a shame...
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05:34 MadcapJake ugexe: did something happen?
05:37 MadcapJake ugexe: https://gitlab.com/u/flussence
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06:30 stmuk_ he seems to have been trying to use the JVM backend
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08:32 dogbert2 o/ #perl6, is there anybody out there ?
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08:33 * dogbert2 hmm
08:33 timotimo o/
08:33 _nadim dogbert2: Sunday morning, which is probably after a long "night to Sunday morning"
08:33 dogbert2 hello guys
08:33 _nadim morning
08:34 dogbert2 saw that the http://doc.perl6.org/language​/variables#Dynamic_variables had been cleaned up a bit
08:34 dogbert2 still, a lot of vars are still missing and some explanations seem incorrect
08:34 _nadim timotimo: I havea, crappy, piece of code with a grammar that core dumps when it is slightly modified. Do you think anyone would be interested in it? it's short.
08:35 timotimo i'll take it
08:35 _nadim 2 mn
08:36 dogbert2 $*DISTRO  Which OS distribution am I compiling under?    # this should be 'Which OS distribution am I running under' ??
08:38 dogbert2 if think I'll write up some changes additions to the variable part and present it here for your perusal. How about that?
08:41 _nadim timotimo: http://nopaste.linux-dev.org/?1097300
08:42 _nadim dogbert2: "that" will probably be welcome but a patch even more.
08:43 dogbert2 _nadim: I can make changes in the repo :) but in a case like this it's nice to have someone take a look first
08:43 RabidGravy make the PR, people will look at it
08:44 dogbert2 RabidGravy; can do
08:44 timotimo _nadim: you didn't say anything about including a module :)
08:46 timotimo _nadim: note that using something like "push" in your action methods is unreliable in the face of backtracking
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09:06 _nadim timotimo: just ignore the module it's just for display purpose.
09:06 _nadim timotimo: yes I am aware of that even though in this case it will work I believe. the whole closure thingy was because of frustration ;)
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09:11 AlexDaniel richi238: if you can't find something then please open a ticket here https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/new
09:11 AlexDaniel richi238: in this case it was already opened: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/372
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09:23 dalek doc/update-dynamic-vars: e827294 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Language/variables.pod:
09:23 dalek doc/update-dynamic-vars: Added TMPDIR and fixed some errors (according to S28)
09:23 dalek doc/update-dynamic-vars: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e827294879
09:25 dogbert2 ok, PR done, did I get everything wrong?
09:27 Emeric joined #perl6
09:29 RabidGravy no they look good,  $*FOO should always be runtime, but an easy way to check is find the definition - if it's PROCESS::<$FOO> then it's definitely run time
09:30 dalek doc: e827294 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Language/variables.pod:
09:30 dalek doc: Added TMPDIR and fixed some errors (according to S28)
09:30 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e827294879
09:30 dalek doc: f928194 | RabidGravy++ | doc/Language/variables.pod:
09:30 dalek doc: Merge pull request #482 from perl6/update-dynamic-vars
09:30 dalek doc:
09:30 dalek doc: Added TMPDIR and fixed some errors (according to S28)
09:30 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f9281940d9
09:30 AlexDaniel dogbert2: it looks right, but let's see what precompilation aficionados say :)
09:31 dogbert2 AlexDaniel: uh oh :)
09:32 RabidGravy the $*FOO should always be initialised when they are first used with the appropriate run-time values, there may be some hacks in there that make this not the case, but they should
09:33 dogbert2 m: say $. # what will the error message be ..
09:33 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/8vFxz5IbCw␤Unsupported use of $. variable; in Perl 6 please use the filehandle's .ins method␤at /tmp/8vFxz5IbCw:1␤------> 3say $.7⏏5 # what will the error message be ..␤»
09:33 AlexDaniel what is .ins
09:34 dogbert2 a no longer existing method, removed around Christmas
09:34 AlexDaniel http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​erl6/2016-04-30#i_12414356
09:34 AlexDaniel yeah
09:34 timotimo "number of input seperators encountered"
09:34 psch m: say $*IN.ins
09:34 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«Method 'ins' not found for invocant of class 'IO::Handle'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/t2NZ9VVVql line 1␤␤»
09:34 * AlexDaniel submits rakudobug
09:34 timotimo roughly translates to "current line in file"
09:35 timotimo what's the rakudobug here?
09:35 dogbert2 the error msg suggesting a method that no longer exists ?
09:36 AlexDaniel timotimo: well, you may fix it right away so that I don't have to submit a ticket :)
09:36 AlexDaniel https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blo​b/8d69b0e196f5dd6f7db0d3106ebd25fd6a​8f5e7b/src/core/Exception.pm#L1359
09:37 AlexDaniel m: say $*IN.nl-in
09:37 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«[␤
09:37 AlexDaniel m: say $*IN.nl-out
09:37 camelia rakudo-moar d7698f: OUTPUT«␤␤»
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09:38 travis-ci Doc build passed. Jan-Olof Hendig 'Added TMPDIR and fixed some errors (according to S28)'
09:38 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/127000170 https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e827294879e5
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09:38 timotimo ah, *that* is the bug
09:38 timotimo ok
09:41 _nadim masak:  going to Cluj?
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09:46 travis-ci Doc build passed. Jonathan Stowe 'Merge pull request #482 from perl6/update-dynamic-vars
09:46 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/127000625 https://github.com/perl6/doc/com​pare/05bb13602b1e...f9281940d953
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09:50 dalek doc: bceb198 | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Type/Pod/Block.pod:
09:50 dalek doc: add table class
09:50 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/bceb198503
09:50 dalek doc: 5c517fe | RabidGravy++ | doc/Type/Pod/Block.pod:
09:50 dalek doc: Merge pull request #483 from tbrowder/master
09:50 dalek doc:
09:50 dalek doc: add table class
09:50 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5c517fe4f5
10:02 lizmat AlexDaniel: RT #128045 fixed
10:02 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=128045
10:04 * dogbert2 wonders if unicode contains a bikeshed character :)
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10:07 tbrowder doc: how does an item become searchable in the search box?
10:11 dogbert2 lizmat: I like the new message :)
10:12 timotimo tbrowder: i think it's either an X<...> tag or some other one
10:12 tbrowder joined #perl6
10:12 AlexDaniel dogbert2: there you go: 🚳
10:13 dogbert2 ok, one possible bikeshed then ...
10:13 AlexDaniel .u 🚳
10:13 yoleaux U+1F6B3 NO BICYCLES [So] (🚳)
10:13 dogbert2 how would you translate this p5 snippet with .kv
10:14 AlexDaniel dogbert2: which snippet?
10:14 dogbert2 perl -n -e 'print $., $_' /etc/passwd
10:15 AlexDaniel m: say .[0],.[1] for $*IN.lines.kv;
10:15 camelia rakudo-moar 1e54c5: OUTPUT«Index out of range. Is: 1, should be in 0..0␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/EHSctNz3eu line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/EHSctNz3eu line 1␤␤»
10:15 AlexDaniel m: say .k,.v for $*IN.lines.kv;
10:15 camelia rakudo-moar 1e54c5: OUTPUT«Method 'k' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/DhkGzc8MK9 line 1␤␤»
10:15 AlexDaniel oh geez
10:15 psch m: .say for lines().kv
10:15 camelia rakudo-moar 1e54c5: OUTPUT«0␤Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤1␤Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤2␤Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤3␤I mo dhiaidh bhí gleann…»
10:16 psch m: .print for lines().kv
10:16 camelia rakudo-moar 1e54c5: OUTPUT«0Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall1Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;2Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí3I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ Ghaoth…»
10:16 psch that's probably the same
10:16 psch oh, no -n adds new-lines
10:16 lizmat for $*IN.lines.kv -> $index, $line { }
10:16 psch m: for lines().pairs { put .key, .value }
10:16 camelia rakudo-moar 1e54c5: OUTPUT«0Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤1Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤2Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤3I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas…»
10:17 AlexDaniel m: for $*IN.lines.kv { say $^a,$^b }
10:17 camelia rakudo-moar 1e54c5: OUTPUT«0Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤1Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤2Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤3I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas…»
10:17 lizmat m: for $*IN.lines.kv -> $index, $line { say "$index: $line" }
10:17 camelia rakudo-moar 1e54c5: OUTPUT«0: Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤1: Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤2: Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤3: I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntái…»
10:17 psch m: for lines() { put $++, $_ } # :P
10:17 camelia rakudo-moar 1e54c5: OUTPUT«0Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤1Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤2Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤3I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas…»
10:17 AlexDaniel m: for $*IN.lines { say $++, $_ }
10:17 camelia rakudo-moar 1e54c5: OUTPUT«0Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤1Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤2Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤3I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas…»
10:17 AlexDaniel ah
10:17 AlexDaniel yeah
10:18 AlexDaniel psch: right! Forgot that you can use just lines()
10:20 dogbert2 the following hangs:  perl6 -n -e 'for $*IN.lines.kv -> $index, $line { say "$index: $line" }' /etc/passwd
10:20 timotimo doesn't -n run the code for every line?
10:20 psch dogbert2: i don't think you need -n if you read the lines yourself
10:21 AlexDaniel it's just perl6 -ne 'say $++,$_' /etc/passwd
10:21 psch hanging is kind of suboptimal though...
10:21 dogbert2 yeah, it's strange
10:22 AlexDaniel “readline requires an object with REPR MVMOSHandle”
10:22 AlexDaniel and yes, it hangs!
10:24 dogbert2 AlexDaniel: your example worked
10:24 AlexDaniel interestingly both get() and lines() kinda work
10:24 AlexDaniel but $*IN.get and $*IN.lines hang
10:29 dalek doc: 41bbe3b | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod:
10:29 dalek doc: Typo in example fixed
10:29 dalek doc:
10:29 dalek doc: With an order like "0-1-2" substitution makes no sense,
10:29 dalek doc: since it doesn't change the variable. According to the
10:30 dalek doc: comment line, the right order should probably be "1-2-0".
10:30 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/41bbe3beaa
10:39 RabidGravy me-- # top tip - if you have an attribute "perl" on an object don't be surprised if things don't appear to behave as expected
10:40 psch RabidGravy: that's a neat braino :)
10:41 timotimo %)
10:41 RabidGravy spent several hours and instrumented a couple of modules trying to debug that :-\
10:42 lizmat some lessons learned are expensive  :-(
10:42 timotimo uh oh :(
10:43 RabidGravy anyway off to my 30+ year old stomping ground to meet my brother and family
10:43 RabidGravy have fun
10:43 RabidGravy toodles
10:43 timotimo :)
10:43 timotimo i haven't a clue what "stomping ground" refers to :|
10:44 * psch guesses pub
10:44 timotimo oh
10:44 RabidGravy the area I lived until I was 18
10:44 RabidGravy but yes there may be a pub involved ;0)
10:54 dalek doc: 897f15e | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod:
10:54 dalek doc: make searchable
10:54 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/897f15e39b
10:54 dalek doc: 5fa9347 | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Language/about.pod:
10:54 dalek doc: add note about how to make an item searchable
10:54 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5fa9347a6b
10:54 dalek doc: 155e9da | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Language/ (2 files):
10:54 dalek doc: Merge pull request #485 from tbrowder/master
10:54 dalek doc:
10:54 dalek doc: make PERL6LIB searchable
10:54 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/155e9daf87
10:58 kid51 joined #perl6
11:02 kid511 joined #perl6
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11:15 AlexDaniel dogbert2: RT #128046 RT #128047
11:15 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=128046
11:15 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=128047
11:15 spider-mario joined #perl6
11:20 dogbert2 AlexDaniel++
11:26 tbrowder doc: the X<> doesn't seem to make a term searchable, any other ideas?
11:26 zakharyas joined #perl6
11:27 tbrowder doc: ah, it looks like it's in htmlify.pl6...
11:29 Ven joined #perl6
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11:41 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
11:49 kid511 What is the appropriate forum in which to ask questions about libraries that are bundled with Rakudo Star?
11:49 kid511 Specifically, I have questions about DBIish
11:50 timotimo this here is a good place, but perl6-users@, the mailing list, is also a good place
11:51 timotimo and reddit is also all right, though i personally don't read it all that often
11:51 timotimo like, reddit.com/r/perl6
11:51 pdcawley joined #perl6
11:52 kid511 Well, let me ask one question here since it may be more general
11:52 kid511 At https://github.com/perl6/DBIish, the following instruction is given for reading the documentation:
11:52 kid511 perl6 --doc <filename>
11:53 kid511 But when I searched the rakudo-star tree, I could not find any file with 'DBIish' in its name.
11:53 kid511 Hence, I could not read the documentation.  What is wrong?
11:53 timotimo oh, that's a good point
11:53 timotimo because the filenames now have sha1 hashes in them
11:54 psch yeah, i've tripped over that a few times too
11:54 kid511 So, doesn't that render 'perl6 --doc <filename>' useless, in practical terms?
11:54 lizmat is there a ticket for it ?
11:54 psch it probably should check if we have a module named <filename> in the CURI
11:54 lizmat is nine_ aware of this ?
11:55 Util joined #perl6
11:55 kid511 How, in general, does one read the documentation in Perl6 via an invocation at the command-line?
11:55 timotimo there's the p6doc tool, but it's not for installed modules, is it?
11:56 kid511 i.e., is there a working equivalent to 'perldoc'?
11:56 psch well, --doc *should* work
11:56 timotimo if you can find the file, it definitely will work
11:56 psch i'll have a look in a bit, see if i can hook that up to look into the installation repo
11:56 lizmat I guess we need to move up handling of --doc to Perl 6 level as well
11:57 timotimo we ought to ship a few nice little tools for inspecting CUR's. like CURls that'll ls all the files that are part of a distribution and their installed paths (if there are any), and also CURcat to cat files that are installed even if there aren't any "files" so to speak
11:58 pierre_ joined #perl6
11:58 timotimo CURgrep/CURack, ... :)
11:59 lizmat timotimo: and those tools would simply use the CUR.methods available   :-)
11:59 lizmat so that people can build their own tools  :-)
11:59 timotimo yes, of course
11:59 timotimo those tools all ought to be one to five lines long
12:00 timotimo but there's still no reason to force users to write them out themselves :)
12:01 brrt joined #perl6
12:02 tbrowder doc revert pull #485: can someone please revert doc pull #485? it doesn't work as expected, thanks.
12:03 timotimo hm, no button up on github to do the revert in-place on the website
12:05 psch actually, i don't see an easy way to not require e.g. --docee=Module::Name...
12:06 lizmat tbrowder: you mean 897f15e39b3ea78cd ?
12:06 kid511 It appear that if, e.g., I want to read the POD found at https://github.com/perl6/DBIi​sh/blob/master/lib/DBIish.pm6 from the command-line, I have to say:
12:06 kid511 perl6 --doc share/perl6/site/sources/8B5538E9​3290C550228635C3FE5A7111890C4339
12:07 kid511 ... which meant that I first had to search the source tree for files with the string 'DBIish', read a lot of output, and then make an educated guess.
12:08 kid511 ... which, IMHO, falls into the category  of "barriers to adoption"
12:08 AlexDaniel kid511: you are right
12:08 lizmat kid511: completely agree  :-)
12:08 kid511 Is there work under way to rectify this?
12:09 * lizmat tries to invoke the nine_
12:09 AlexDaniel since you've just brought it up, I don't think so
12:09 * psch gets warnocked again
12:09 kid511 Also, here I at least had the advantage of knowing that DBIish was bundled with Rakudo-Star
12:09 AlexDaniel and there's also no tickte as far as I can see
12:09 AlexDaniel ticket*
12:09 kid511 I would have been completely clueless if this were "installed from CPAN or the cloud"
12:10 kid511 I will open a ticket based on my remarks ^^
12:10 lizmat kid511++
12:10 AlexDaniel kid511++
12:14 jdv79 kid511: good point
12:17 AlexDaniel .seen Zoffix
12:17 yoleaux I saw Zoffix 26 Jan 2016 15:53Z in #perl6: <Zoffix> m: class Bar does Associative { has $.foo = 42; method AT-KEY($key) { self."$key"() } }; Bar.new<foo>.say
12:17 tadzik wouldn't 'p6doc DBIish' DTRT?
12:17 AlexDaniel .seen ZoffixWin
12:17 yoleaux I saw ZoffixWin 30 Apr 2016 19:55Z in #perl6: <ZoffixWin> \o
12:17 AlexDaniel .tell ZoffixWin where is huggable? :)
12:17 yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to ZoffixWin.
12:22 tadzik kid511: yes, 'p6doc DBIish' is what you're after :)
12:23 tadzik similarly to how you'd do 'perldoc DBI' rather than 'perl -Mpod2text-or-whatever `find -name DBI.pm | head -n1` or something :)
12:24 psch tadzik: in that case i'd almost argue to toss the --doc switch
12:24 psch tadzik: 'case as-is it's just misleading and somewhat useless too
12:24 psch *cause
12:24 tadzik it's quite useful for developing and locally testing your own written doc
12:25 kurahaupo joined #perl6
12:25 tadzik I think the synopses
12:25 timotimo we could deprecate --doc and call the switch --renderpod instead
12:25 tadzik ' idea was to make --doc smart enough
12:25 tadzik so perl6 --doc DBIish would actually work
12:25 psch yeah, i'm looking how we could do that
12:26 psch hm, what's the CUR invocation to look for the path of an installed module..? :)
12:27 Ben_Goldberg joined #perl6
12:28 kid511 https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128048
12:29 tadzik I'll respond to the ticket :)
12:29 AlexDaniel what is p6doc
12:29 tadzik it's a perldoc for perl6,pretty much :)
12:30 AlexDaniel where can I get it?
12:30 tadzik same place where everywhere else :)
12:30 tadzik 'redpadna p6doc', or your other favourite equivalent
12:30 lizmat redpadna ?
12:30 tadzik frankly, I think a reasonable way to resolve the situation is to make --doc load p6doc-the-module and delegate stuff ot it
12:30 tadzik reppadna, modulo my pytos :)
12:31 grondilu joined #perl6
12:31 tadzik https://github.com/tadzik/App-redpanda this
12:31 AlexDaniel oh, so panda install p6doc
12:31 tadzik I mean, the precedent to it this way is --doc=HTML that tries to load Pod::To::HTML
12:32 AlexDaniel is it included in rakudo star?
12:32 tadzik yeah, sorry for being deliberately confusing :)
12:32 tadzik I think it is, yes
12:32 tadzik ISTR there's at least one other module that does that, being the Debugger::UI::Commandline or so
12:33 AlexDaniel and then, how do I use it?
12:33 tadzik I don't see why not to make p6doc '2nd degree core' and have --doc rely on it, at least if --doc cannot find the source for the Pod by itself
12:33 tadzik as you would perldoc
12:33 tadzik p6doc DBIish
12:33 tadzik p6doc -f sort
12:34 AlexDaniel “panda install p6doc” does not create a p6doc binary on my system
12:34 tadzik (the latter won't work, as I've found, I'm sure moritz will be happy for patches :))
12:34 tadzik are you using rakudobrew?
12:34 tadzik in that case, 'rakudobrew rehashh
12:34 tadzik why can't I type today :|
12:34 AlexDaniel yeah, now I have it
12:35 tadzik awesome
12:35 AlexDaniel what if I wasn't using rakudobrew?
12:35 tadzik then it should Just Work
12:35 tadzik as long as the default panda install path is in your PATH
12:35 AlexDaniel hmmm… I wonder why would it be… in case of e.g. debian
12:37 AlexDaniel ah, there's no panda in debian repos so perhaps it does not matter right now
12:38 AlexDaniel tadzik: anyway, thanks!
12:44 tadzik (nvm)
12:45 loren joined #perl6
12:50 tbrowder lizmat: I think the whole commit is: 155e9daf87ce9e38e22ef040987a1b24f3f3dfe6
12:53 dalek doc: 32d8fe2 | lizmat++ | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod:
12:53 dalek doc: Revert "make searchable"
12:53 dalek doc:
12:53 dalek doc: This reverts commit 897f15e39b3ea78cdd11a704c371b860ad124c5b.
12:53 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/32d8fe217d
12:55 tadzik lizmat: what is the reason for this?
12:55 dalek doc: 232d81e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod:
12:55 dalek doc: make searchable in a way that works
12:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/232d81ea1e
12:55 tadzik I assume "it makes it render badly while not giving us any value at this point".... forget I asked :)
12:55 lizmat tadzik: basically doing what tbrowder asked me to do ?
12:56 tadzik right, I didn't follow the entire thing, sorry
12:57 ZoffixWin joined #perl6
12:58 Actualeyes joined #perl6
12:58 ZoffixWin AlexDaniel, she keeps dropping because I never finished IRC::Client and I didn't really see people using her, so I stopped restarting her :)
12:58 yoleaux 12:17Z <AlexDaniel> ZoffixWin: where is huggable? :)
12:59 huggable joined #perl6
13:00 ZoffixWin huggable, help
13:00 huggable ZoffixWin, I'm a factoid bot. See me my source at https://github.com/zoffixznet/p​erl6-IRC-Client-Plugin-Factoid
13:00 pierre_ joined #perl6
13:00 ZoffixWin huggable, Int
13:00 huggable ZoffixWin, class Int [Integer (arbitrary-precision)]: http://doc.perl6.org/type/Int
13:00 moritz I'd be very interested in an IRC client that can reconnect automatically
13:00 moritz because then I could use a Perl 6 version of ilbot in production, finally
13:00 ZoffixWin I'll put more work into it then, after I launch perl6.party
13:01 tadzik moritz: is ilbot running on Bot::BasicBot?
13:01 moritz tadzik: yes
13:02 tadzik moritz: did you do anything speciall to make it automatically reconnect? I have a bot I maintain on another channel, and every now and then it will "fall asleep" and stop responding, and I always manually restart it :?
13:04 moritz tadzik: I don't think I did :-)
13:04 moritz https://github.com/moritz/i​lbot/blob/master/ilbot2.pl
13:04 ZoffixWin There's this, but I'd be surprised if B::BB did not use it by default anyway: https://metacpan.org/pod/POE::Co​mponent::IRC::Plugin::Connector
13:06 AlexDaniel ZoffixWin: perhaps no one is using her because she keeps dropping?
13:06 ZoffixWin :D
13:07 AlexDaniel ZoffixWin: I've tried to use it a couple of times but was very disappointed to see that the bot was not there when I needed it
13:08 ZoffixWin I'll shove it into a auto-restarter script that will kill and restart every so often :)
13:08 AlexDaniel huggable: no bikeshedding please :is: 🚳
13:08 huggable AlexDaniel, Added no bikeshedding please as 🚳
13:09 ZoffixWin m: '🚳'.uninames.say
13:09 camelia rakudo-moar 6df053: OUTPUT«(NO BICYCLES)␤»
13:09 ZoffixWin :S
13:09 AlexDaniel yea, it's a bit off… but good enough :)
13:09 ZoffixWin I wonder what it renders as
13:10 ZoffixWin Ahh: http://www.fileformat.info/inf​o/unicode/char/1f6b3/index.htm
13:10 ZoffixWin Makes sense now.
13:10 AlexDaniel ZoffixWin: https://files.progarm.org/2016​-05-01-160956_619x98_scrot.png
13:10 tadzik so what does huggable do? :)
13:11 lizmat huggable: hug tadzik
13:11 huggable lizmat, nothing found
13:11 ZoffixWin Not much. She just sits around all day
13:11 ZoffixWin :)
13:11 AlexDaniel huggable: what do you do for a living? :is: I am a factoid bot on #perl6
13:11 huggable AlexDaniel, Added what do you do for a living? as I am a factoid bot on #perl6
13:11 lizmat huggable: what do you do for a living?
13:11 huggable lizmat, I am a factoid bot on #perl6
13:11 tadzik oh that's useful :)
13:11 tadzik huggable: how is babby formed?
13:11 huggable tadzik, nothing found
13:11 lizmat huggable: what do you do for a living ?
13:11 huggable lizmat, nothing found
13:12 lizmat huggable is rather strict at what she understands :-)
13:12 tadzik can I teach it that old copypasta? :D
13:12 ZoffixWin What old copypasta?
13:13 tadzik ZoffixWin: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-is-babby-formed
13:14 tadzik there's no full text in there though, eh
13:14 tadzik https://answers.yahoo.com/questio​n/index?qid=20080820174408AAZkbcG this might be the original
13:16 ZoffixWin *sigh* I never thought Yahoo would stoop to such bad design as to show damn popups in your face: http://i.imgur.com/XS0r6H1.png
13:17 AlexDaniel ZoffixWin: no damn popups here with µBlock
13:18 AlexDaniel hmmm maybe it is because I am not using Chrome
13:18 tadzik "no need to put that x on that popup, I already have an x on my tabs"
13:19 tadzik keen eye spots a Steam icon on your screenshot, may I interest you in #perl6-gaming? :)
13:32 masak heh, X-able is a cute naming scheme for IRC bots. kind of self-documenting. ;)
13:32 masak we could rename camelia to "evalable"
13:34 timotimo rakudobuggable will be your new name, masak :) :)
13:34 * masak bobs happily in mid-air :>
13:35 * masak .oO( masak, the bugger-all bot )
13:36 nd3i joined #perl6
13:37 nd3i given an array of pairs: @a = :one(1), :two(2)
13:38 AlexDaniel okay
13:38 AlexDaniel ZoffixWin: :'(
13:38 ZoffixWin I'm making a re-starter
13:38 AlexDaniel ah
13:38 AlexDaniel :) then
13:39 nd3i do I understand correctly that push(@a, :three(3)) fails because the pair is taken as a named parameter for push?
13:39 huggable joined #perl6
13:39 timotimo that's accurate
13:39 AlexDaniel yes
13:39 timotimo you can write push(@a, (:three(3))) if you watn
13:39 AlexDaniel m: my@a = :one(1), :two(2); push @a, (:three(3)); say @a
13:39 camelia rakudo-moar 6df053: OUTPUT«[one => 1 two => 2 three => 3]␤»
13:40 nd3i ok. Right, I found that (:three(3)) is the answer and that sort of made it clear what was happening.
13:40 AlexDaniel m: my@a = :one(1), :two(2); push @a, :three(3)[]; say @a
13:40 camelia rakudo-moar 6df053: OUTPUT«[one => 1 two => 2 three => 3]␤»
13:40 nd3i Still, it seems dangerous, no? It would be an easy mistake to make and not much fun to track down
13:41 nd3i would it be possible to detect and warn about at compile time?
13:41 nd3i I guess handling named parms is up to the sub, so there's not much the compiler can do
13:42 timotimo m: my @a; push @a, :foobar(1)
13:42 camelia rakudo-moar 6df053: ( no output )
13:42 timotimo interesting, i'm a bit surprised push has a *% to it
13:42 timotimo potentially because it just invokes the method form without doing argument checking itself at all?
13:43 AlexDaniel m: my@a = :one(1), :two(2); push @a, Pair.new(‘three’, 3); say @a
13:43 camelia rakudo-moar 6df053: OUTPUT«[one => 1 two => 2 three => 3]␤»
13:46 dogbert2 so, does anyone know what the method flurb does ? http://doc.perl6.org/routine/flurb
13:46 AlexDaniel “method description here”. Isn't it obvious?
13:46 psch m: say &flurb
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar 6df053: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/sRdaLXiMiw␤Undeclared routine:␤    flurb used at line 1. Did you mean 'slurp'?␤␤»
13:47 dogbert2 looks like a joke to me :)
13:47 ZoffixWin :)
13:47 dogbert2 would you all cry if I removed it :)
13:47 ZoffixWin Well, I'm searching Rakudo source for 'flurb' and nothing comes up.
13:48 timotimo it's in the doc repo
13:48 timotimo it comes from a tool that starts a doc page with a template for you
13:48 telex joined #perl6
13:48 timotimo oh
13:48 timotimo and actually it's in Submethod, too
13:48 timotimo =comment ... TODO
13:49 dogbert2 that's where I found it (in Submethod)
13:49 ZoffixWin AlexDaniel, what do you mean by "extra" whitespace?
13:49 ZoffixWin RE https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6​-IRC-Client-Plugin-Factoid/issues/4
13:49 AlexDaniel ZoffixWin: I've attached a piece of IRC log. I think that both should work
13:50 * ZoffixWin disagrees
13:50 dogbert2 timotimo: thx
13:50 AlexDaniel huggable: what do you do for a living?
13:50 huggable AlexDaniel, nothing found
13:50 sjn joined #perl6
13:50 ZoffixWin AlexDaniel, '?' is part of the factoid. So inserting a space between it and the rest of the factoid would have to have some heuristics to find a guess
13:50 dogbert2 i'll remove the submethod one then :)
13:51 ZoffixWin huggable, what do you do for a living?
13:51 huggable ZoffixWin, I am a factoid bot on #perl6
13:51 ZoffixWin huggable, what do you do for a living?
13:51 huggable ZoffixWin, nothing found
13:51 ZoffixWin THAT, I agree with :)
13:51 brrt joined #perl6
13:51 AlexDaniel ZoffixWin: instead of saying “nothing found”, why not find something that matches?
13:52 ZoffixWin AlexDaniel, that's already planned: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-​IRC-Client-Plugin-Factoid/blob/maste​r/DESIGN.md#level-2-implementation
13:52 psch safe the factoids under (tr/ //).fc maybe
13:52 AlexDaniel ZoffixWin: so why do you disagree? :)
13:52 ZoffixWin huggable, int
13:52 huggable ZoffixWin, class int [Integer (native storage; machine precision)]: http://doc.perl6.org/type/nativeInt
13:52 ZoffixWin huggable, Int
13:52 huggable ZoffixWin, class Int [Integer (arbitrary-precision)]: http://doc.perl6.org/type/Int
13:53 ZoffixWin psch, ^ :) that would be a bit problematic
13:53 psch m: say "int".fc eq "Int".fc
13:53 camelia rakudo-moar 6df053: OUTPUT«True␤»
13:53 psch right
13:53 * psch misremember what exactly foldcase does
13:53 timotimo psch: i would only s/ ' '+/ /, tbh
13:53 AlexDaniel well so what? if “int” exists then print it, if it does not then print “Int”
13:53 timotimo foldcase is a unicode-prescribed transformation that's supposed to be used for case-insensitive comparison
13:54 psch huggable: ^search work
13:54 huggable psch, nothing found
13:54 psch huggable: ^search living
13:54 huggable psch, nothing found
13:54 ZoffixWin NIY
13:54 ZoffixWin Nothing of that design is implemented except for basic storage-retrieval
13:55 psch huggable: NIY :is: NYI
13:55 huggable psch, Added NIY as NYI
13:55 psch :P
13:55 timotimo m)
13:55 dalek doc: 1a58d1a | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Submethod.pod:
13:55 dalek doc: Removed the flurb method
13:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1a58d1a574
13:56 * psch resists the urge to try and overwrite the Int factoid
13:56 AlexDaniel psch: overwrite with what?
13:56 ZoffixWin You'll succeed.
13:57 psch AlexDaniel: well, the impulse was "you probably wanted documentation, eh? too bad"
13:57 AlexDaniel huggable: int
13:57 huggable AlexDaniel, class int [Integer (native storage; machine precision)]: http://doc.perl6.org/type/nativeInt
13:57 AlexDaniel huggable: Submethod
13:57 huggable AlexDaniel, class Submethod [Member function that is not inherited by subclasses]: http://doc.perl6.org/type/Submethod
13:57 AlexDaniel cool
13:58 AlexDaniel huggable: ∘
13:58 huggable AlexDaniel, nothing found
13:58 AlexDaniel huggable: o
13:58 huggable AlexDaniel, nothing found
13:58 psch huggable: infix:<o>
13:58 huggable psch, nothing found
13:58 AlexDaniel huggable: huggable
13:58 huggable AlexDaniel, nothing found
13:59 psch huggable: huggable :is: did you mean recursion?
13:59 huggable psch, Added huggable as did you mean recursion?
13:59 AlexDaniel huggable: huggable :is: https://github.com/zoffixznet/p​erl6-IRC-Client-Plugin-Factoid
13:59 huggable AlexDaniel, Added huggable as https://github.com/zoffixznet/p​erl6-IRC-Client-Plugin-Factoid
13:59 AlexDaniel :P
13:59 * psch blames the r-j compiliation process
14:00 AlexDaniel after all, man man, help help and stuff like that works
14:06 ZoffixWin joined #perl6
14:06 ZoffixWin joined #perl6
14:07 ZoffixWin What's a sane way to create a bunch of variables from a hash? say I have %h = foo => 'bar'; meow => 'moo'; *magic happens*; say "$foo $meow"; # prints "bar moo":
14:09 ZoffixWin Actually... I'm already evaling stuff... What's a way to test whether a key can be used as a variable name? :P
14:10 sjn joined #perl6
14:11 rindolf joined #perl6
14:13 ZoffixWin m: say so 'varₓ' ~~ /^ <:L> [<:L> | <:Nd> | <[_'-]> ]+ $/;
14:13 camelia rakudo-moar 6df053: OUTPUT«True␤»
14:13 * ZoffixWin will use that
14:13 moritz - and ' can only be used between word characters
14:13 ZoffixWin Thanks
14:14 moritz m: my %h = a => a, b => 2; my (:$a, *%) := %h; say $.perl
14:14 camelia rakudo-moar 6df053: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/aYCr4zFn8I␤Variable $.perl used where no 'self' is available␤at /tmp/aYCr4zFn8I:1␤------> 3, b => 2; my (:$a, *%) := %h; say $.perl7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        argument list␤        …»
14:14 moritz m: my %h = a => a, b => 2; my (:$a, *%) := %h; say $a.perl
14:14 camelia rakudo-moar 6df053: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/9U_lB2fAk4␤Undeclared routine:␤    a used at line 1␤␤»
14:14 ZoffixWin m: my %h = a => 'a', b => 2; my (:$a, *%) := %h; say $a.perl
14:14 camelia rakudo-moar 6df053: OUTPUT«"a"␤»
14:14 ZoffixWin :o
14:14 ZoffixWin That's insane.
14:15 ZoffixWin moritz++
14:15 psch note that you already know the key there
14:16 ZoffixWin Yeah, I just realized that :P
14:16 tharkun joined #perl6
14:25 zwu joined #perl6
14:27 zwu for NativeCall, what is a way to attach to C memory? For example, C returns a pointer to an array and a size, how can Perl 6 create CArray to attach on the memory for a view?
14:29 timotimo you can use nativecast for that task
14:29 timotimo like nativecast(CArray[int], $returned_value)
14:29 zwu Just read that Typed Pointers should work for the memory attachment,
14:30 timotimo it might be more wordy, i don't think Pointer has a postcircumfix:<[ ]> that works with it
14:30 timotimo it'd be cool if it did, though
14:30 timotimo then you can write pointer arithmetic like in C. which we all know is totally a good idea!
14:31 zwu right, I just found the example for Pointer[int32] and Pointer[MyCstruct]
14:32 timotimo right, Pointer[MyCStruct
14:32 timotimo ] is probably what you'll have to use if the array returned from C has all the structs in-lined, rather than pointed at
14:35 zwu really like the idea of the postcircumfix:<[ ]> to pointer!
14:35 timotimo why not have a stab at implementing it, then? :) :)
14:36 timotimo you can look at how CArray works, you'll probably have to apply the Positional role and implement AT-POS and BIND-POS
14:38 timotimo BBIAB
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15:07 zwu I would love to help though I'm not an expert in perl.
15:12 Relsak joined #perl6
15:12 timotimo you might be surprised at how easy it can be to hack on core stuff. i'm willing to give guidance
15:12 timotimo but you're free to refuse, of course
15:13 ecocode joined #perl6
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15:17 BenGoldberg m: class A { submethod b { 42 }; method c { self!b } }; A.c();
15:17 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/xE1Lu2VzUE␤No such private method 'b' for invocant of type 'A'␤at /tmp/xE1Lu2VzUE:1␤------> 3A { submethod b { 42 }; method c { self!7⏏5b } }; A.c();␤»
15:18 BenGoldberg m: class A { submethod b { 42 }; method c { self.b } }; A.c();
15:18 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: ( no output )
15:18 BenGoldberg m: class A { submethod b { 42 }; method c { say self.b } }; A.c();
15:18 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: OUTPUT«42␤»
15:21 ZoffixWin Ah \o/ reworked how stash vars are used in template in Bailador::Template::Mojo::Extended . Now I'm happy with it :)
15:22 wamba joined #perl6
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15:43 RabidGravy beware the goars
15:43 RabidGravy goars?
15:43 mst goats?
15:45 timotimo groots
15:45 geekosaur groats?
15:48 tadzik ooh, ::Extended
15:48 tadzik consider me interested :)
15:49 tadzik nice :)
15:50 timotimo i can't seem to build a fresh rakudo
15:50 timotimo Could not find symbol '&ssize_t'
15:50 timotimo what am i missing?
15:55 espadrine_ joined #perl6
15:57 timotimo well, rm -rf install "fixed" it
15:57 RabidGravy I did see that PR go in
15:57 timotimo so yay
15:57 RabidGravy HARR
15:58 timotimo harr?
15:58 timotimo yo RabidGravy, what's your process for making/coming up with melodies?
15:59 timotimo i've been told i have to learn about harmonies first before i can melodize
16:00 RabidGravy that's a bit strict to be honest
16:01 RabidGravy as far as the stuff I typically make it might be a trick question as I may eschew melody altogether
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16:02 tbrowder perl6-examples: Travis is failing looking for some modules
16:02 RabidGravy but typically it's select a mode around the key of the thing and doodle until it sounds right
16:02 * psch usually puts a few notes with different length in a row
16:03 psch often that sounds meh, but sometimes it's ok :P
16:03 timotimo "mode"?
16:04 psch that's more of that music theory stuff
16:04 psch ionian, lydian and so on
16:04 timotimo the what now :)
16:04 timotimo i have never heard of those terms before
16:04 RabidGravy I may spend hours working up something with just "noise" processed in various pleasing ways and then just add a few actual notes to hook in the people that don't get minimal ;-)
16:05 timotimo https://en.wikipedia.org/w​iki/Ionian_School_(music) - this the right one?
16:05 timotimo it's not telling me much, that's for certain
16:05 psch oh, yeah, no, ionian is actually wrong i think :S
16:06 psch ah, no
16:06 psch i don't really know them by heart...
16:06 psch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_(music)#Ionian_.28I.29
16:06 psch mode kinda are the same as scales, but not really
16:06 psch *modes
16:06 timotimo there's not even a german page on modes in music
16:06 psch ...or was it keys that are kind of the same but not really?
16:07 psch i get that confused sometimes
16:07 timotimo and mode is a ridiculously general term
16:07 psch https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modale_Tonleitern
16:07 timotimo ah
16:07 ecocode joined #perl6
16:08 tbrowder is there an easy way to update modules on the travis server?
16:09 timotimo you'd invoke panda for that; what are you missing?
16:09 ugexe travis has nothing to do with modules
16:10 timotimo shouldn't it grab the newest versions of all modules anyway?
16:10 timotimo because it build from scratch every time ...
16:11 rurban joined #perl6
16:13 ugexe well its requesting to install a 'Web::Request' which does not exist
16:14 RabidGravy if you look in the examples of  Audio::PortMIDI then there is a set of definitions of the modes, and I think psch's module has too
16:16 * psch wonders if the repeated music discussion (and the GH org) warrant a dedicated channel
16:16 dalek doc: 490d255 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Language/setbagmix.pod:
16:16 dalek doc: Fixed typo in operator name, i.e. (+>) to (>+)
16:16 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/490d255fc9
16:16 tadzik I'd join #perl6-music :)
16:16 psch i was thinking #perl6-noise-gang, cause that the GH org vOv
16:17 RabidGravy do it
16:18 mst I like #perl6-noise-gang
16:18 ugexe its because supernovas changed his meta.info to meta6.json (for distribution named 'Web') and did not update th ecosystem
16:18 mst give me a shout if you manage to botch the channel registration and I'll help fix it for you
16:18 mst (or if you just have questions about managing an IRC channel)
16:19 psch mst: fwiw, ChanServ links to http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml which is apparently parked
16:19 psch ah, no, freenode.net just has a search
16:20 psch http://freenode.net/changuide is the right url
16:21 RabidGravy still none the wiser :)
16:21 mst psch: thanks, filed as https://github.com/freenode/web-7.0/issues/212
16:22 RabidGravy isn't it just "/join #channel" and it makes the channel?
16:22 psch RabidGravy: yeah, but ChanServ does stuff vOv
16:22 RabidGravy ah right
16:23 psch i do like the habit of not having ops around for example, like we do here
16:23 mst so long as the name matches /^#perl6-/ I can get staff to fix pretty much anything you can do wrong to it
16:24 mst I would, however, prefer to answer questions in advance so I don't have to do that
16:24 psch yeah, i'm reading chanserv help and changuide right now
16:24 mst main thing: make sure you've got more than one person with a full set of flags
16:24 psch yup, i was planning on that :)
16:25 mst oh, and you probably may as well give me full access, since (a) I *effectively* have that anyway (b) if something goes wrong I can fix it faster that way
16:30 psch mst: well, i gave you +F.  not sure if i need to add e.g. +e manually too
16:31 mst that'll be fine
16:31 mst that's enough for me to bootstrap myself up to whatever else if you need me :)
16:36 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
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16:55 Xliff_out Heya, #perl6
16:55 Xliff What type is best for storing binary data that will grow with time?
16:55 n0xff joined #perl6
16:56 Xliff Blob/Buf or does it matter?
16:56 grondilu Buf is the mutable version
16:56 ZoffixWin Buf. I think Blob is immutable
16:56 Xliff OK. So how do you append to a Buf?
16:57 Xliff m: my $b = Buf.new(1, 2, 3, 4); $b.push(5, 6, 7, 8); say $b
16:57 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08>␤»
16:57 Xliff Nevermind. ;)
16:57 ZoffixWin :)
16:57 Xliff m: my $b = Buf.new(1, 2, 3, 4); my $c.Buf.new(5, 6, 7, 8); $b.push($c); say $b;
16:57 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: OUTPUT«Method 'Buf' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/bdRm_S03uy line 1␤␤»
16:57 Xliff m: my $b = Buf.new(1, 2, 3, 4); my $c = Buf.new(5, 6, 7, 8); $b.push($c); say $b;
16:57 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08>␤»
17:01 ugexe m: say Buf.new(1,2,3) ~ Buf.new(4,5,6); my $buf = Buf.new(1,2,3); $buf ~= Buf.new(4,5,6); say $buf
17:01 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<01 02 03 04 05 06>␤Buf:0x<01 02 03 04 05 06>␤»
17:09 ecocode joined #perl6
17:18 Xliff ugexe, is ~ more appropriate than .push?
17:19 masak Xliff: that sounds like the kind of question whose answer is benchmarking -- at least if you care about it being fast
17:19 Xliff Heh.
17:19 Xliff Fair enough.
17:21 Xliff Hmmm... Audio::OggVorbis isn't showing on modules.perl6.org. When does that refresh?
17:21 arnsholt ~ and .push have subtly different semantics too, don't they?
17:21 arnsholt ~ making a new object, while .push modifies its invocant?
17:21 Xliff Which means I'd want .push
17:21 TEttinger joined #perl6
17:22 psch m: say Buf.new(1,2,3) ~ Buf.new(4,5,6); my $buf = Buf.new(1,2,3); say $buf.WHERE; $buf ~= Buf.new(4,5,6); say $buf.WHERE; $buf.push(Buf.new(7,8,9)); say $buf.WHERE
17:22 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<01 02 03 04 05 06>␤140323522109888␤1403235​22118904␤140323522118904␤»
17:23 AlexDaniel why can't ~= act like .push?
17:23 AlexDaniel isn't it something the compiler has to think about instead of me?
17:23 zuchel joined #perl6
17:24 Xliff m: use Benchmark
17:24 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find Benchmark at line 1 in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6␤    CompUnit::Rep…»
17:24 psch AlexDaniel: "stringy ops work with stringy semantics, and Str are immutable" is my reasoning
17:24 psch (for the difference, to be clear)
17:25 masak AlexDaniel: that's not what ~= means, though. it means `$buf = $buf ~ $stuff` -- that is, replace the old one with a new one
17:25 masak AlexDaniel: you get what you ask for, basically
17:25 AlexDaniel I get that, I'm just thinking that maybe Perl 6 has to be a bit smarter than me in this case
17:26 psch but if &[~](Buf, Buf) means Buf.push(Buf) we should just not have it
17:26 AlexDaniel if ~ is not somethink that works reasonably well, why have ~ at all
17:26 mst AlexDaniel: IME the computer can be significantly smarter than me and still depressingly stupid :)
17:26 psch and ISTR that there was a great need for the ~ candidate
17:27 psch ...i don't know how "it creates a new Buf" means "it doesn't work reasonably well"
17:28 masak AlexDaniel: it's not about "smarter", it's about consistency. that's what the ~= op does.
17:28 masak AlexDaniel: making it do the other thing would be inconsistent and surprising.
17:28 AlexDaniel masak: I agree with that, yeah
17:31 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
17:33 mst AlexDaniel: also, consider, for example, overloading ~
17:33 AlexDaniel I am not a fan of overloading
17:34 mst that's completely nothing to do with the point I'm making
17:34 CIAvash joined #perl6
17:34 AlexDaniel mst: well, you mean that I can change it myself, right?
17:34 mr-foobar joined #perl6
17:34 mst no
17:35 mst I mean that the fact people can write their own ~ implementations is another reason why ~= has to behave the way it does
17:35 masak ~ is already overloaded, since it works both on Str and on Buf ;)
17:38 Xliff Odd. When doing this "my $b = Buf.new(@c); my $t2 = timethis(1000, sub { $b.push(@c); }); dd $t2;" via "perl6 -MBenchmark -e"
17:39 Xliff I get this: WARNING: unhandled Failure detected in DESTROY:
17:39 Xliff Type check failed in push to Buf; expected uint8 but got Array ($[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...)
17:39 huggable joined #perl6
17:39 Xliff Benchmark bug?
17:40 Xliff Nope.
17:41 Xliff m: my @c = ^100; my $b = Buf.new(@c); $b.push(@c)
17:41 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: OUTPUT«Type check failed in push to Buf; expected uint8 but got Array ($[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/9HflsIVrrO line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/9HflsIVrrO line 1␤␤»
17:41 Xliff m: my @c = ^100; my $b = Buf.new(@c); $b.push(^50)
17:41 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: OUTPUT«Type check failed in push to Buf; expected uint8 but got Range (^50)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/sVxVSLN0b6 line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/sVxVSLN0b6 line 1␤␤»
17:41 Xliff m: my @c = ^100; my $b = Buf.new(@c); $b.push(1,2,3,4,5)
17:41 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: ( no output )
17:41 Xliff m: my @c = ^100; my $b = Buf.new(@c); $b.push(^50.flat)
17:41 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Precedence of ^ is looser than method call; please parenthesize␤    at /tmp/0ZnSRgXEYi:1␤    ------> 3= ^100; my $b = Buf.new(@c); $b.push(^507⏏5.flat)␤Type check failed in push to Buf; expected uint8 but got Range…»
17:42 Xliff So argument to Buf.push needs to be Buf
17:43 mst Xliff: the goal here, I believe, is to make sure that you never confuse data intended for a Buf and data intended for a Str, because being pedantic about that makes it much harder to give yourself encoding nightmares
17:44 Xliff kk
17:46 Xliff So if I'm reading Benchmark output correctly, .push() is the way to go.
17:46 Xliff Thanks!
17:47 zakharyas joined #perl6
17:57 psch anyone around who can teach dalek to join #perl6-noise-gang?
17:57 psch diakopter: ping
18:11 zakharyas joined #perl6
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18:30 moritz psch: I think I can
18:31 psch moritz: that'd be nice :)
18:31 dalek joined #perl6
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18:32 psch moritz: thanks!
18:32 moritz psch: no problem
18:39 ZoffixWin m: my @c = ^100; my $b = Buf.new(@c); $b.push(^50.flat)
18:39 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Precedence of ^ is looser than method call; please parenthesize␤    at /tmp/RM3BVce53H:1␤    ------> 3= ^100; my $b = Buf.new(@c); $b.push(^507⏏5.flat)␤Type check failed in push to Buf; expected uint8 but got Range…»
18:39 ZoffixWin m: my @c = ^100; my $b = Buf.new(@c); $b.push(| ^50);
18:39 camelia rakudo-moar e8fd55: ( no output )
18:39 ufobat joined #perl6
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18:39 ufobat ola :)
18:40 ZoffixWin \o
18:40 Ven o
18:40 Ven o/*
18:40 ZoffixWin ufobat, I sent you a PR to let my new baby work: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl​6-Bailador-Template-Mojo-Extended
18:40 timotimo is there a clever trick to select colors across the hue range when you don't know up front how many colors you'll need, but you want the result to be as well spread out as you can?
18:40 ufobat ZoffixWin, it's just merged in :)
18:41 ufobat i wanted to ask what you're doing since i am happy about your contributions
18:41 ZoffixWin ufobat, I see your comment 'Thank you', but no merge: https://github.com/ufobat/Bailador/pull/69
18:42 ufobat oups, thanks
18:42 ZoffixWin Yey \o/ ufobat++
18:42 ufobat now it is!
18:42 timotimo oh, golden ratio, eh?
18:43 ZoffixWin ufobat, as for what I'm doing, I'm putting up http://perl6.party that for a start will just be a place to host my blog posts with browser-runnable examples.
18:43 ufobat cool :-)
18:43 ZoffixWin And I figured may as well make it Powered By Perl 6(tm)
18:43 ufobat of course!
18:43 ufobat woudn't it be odd if you would run it on something else?
18:44 ufobat my wife just drove me around in the car for an hour so i wrote some more documentation \o/
18:47 ZoffixWin I wouldn't say "odd," it's just cooler if it is.
18:47 ZoffixWin modules.perl6.org is powered by Perl 5, after all.
18:49 ecocode joined #perl6
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18:51 ufobat yeah perl5 is great of course. but if you have a website about how awesome perl6 is and someone suddenly realizes "oh yeah.. but your website is powered by JSF" ;)
18:51 ufobat i am just babbling :)
18:52 jjido joined #perl6
18:53 mst ufobat: I feel like we'd be better off going "yeah, cos use what works"
18:54 ZoffixWin mst++
18:56 ZoffixWin Especially when it's really MultiMarkdown + Perl 6 + SASS + JS + CSS Framework + JS Framework
18:56 ZoffixWin Perl 6 isn't the only thing that's making the site possible :)
18:57 ZoffixWin + Glot.io :P
18:58 ufobat mst, right from the technical point of view. But if it's about transporting enthusiasm to others perl6 should be on your "list" somehow
18:59 mst ufobat: if it's about transporting enthusiasm to others working on things that show off perl6 rather than half-arsed reimplementations of things that already exist is probably a better use of your time
19:00 mst (also over a long enough timeline things bitrot and then you have the horrible situation where, politically, making it not-$lang even though nobody has time to maintain the $lang implementation becomes a nightmare)
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19:07 ufobat i am not sure if i get the point. for me it reads as like "don't put anything in the ecosystem that's available and maybe better somewhere else"
19:08 yqt joined #perl6
19:11 nine_ ufobat: the website is powered by JSF....and apache...and Linux and maybe Cisco routers. Why exactly is it important that the one component of the stack is written in Perl 6?
19:11 ufobat it's not important form a technical side
19:12 ufobat it's like in "eat more vegetables! but i am just eating pizza, pasta and drinking beer"
19:13 ufobat it sounds better if you eat pizza, paste and eat vegetables
19:14 mst and zoffix does use perl6. just not for that site's code.
19:14 mst I don't really see why you're being so dogmatic about it
19:14 mst this is the opposite of TIMTOWTDI to my mind
19:15 masak what mst said
19:15 masak in 2016, one still has to compromise to be a Perl 6 user
19:15 masak of course more Perl 6 every would be Verra Nice
19:15 ugexe i only use artisinal bespoke perl6 crafted tcp packets
19:15 ufobat well i don't think i am dogmatic about it. I dont want anyone to eat more vegetables, i am sorry if if it was understood like that
19:16 mst and from over a decade of cat herding stuff related to perl5 infrastructure, trying to insist on things being in perl5 has repeatedly slowed us down in ways that, in hindsight, were bloody silly
19:16 masak dogfooding can be fantastic
19:17 damnlie joined #perl6
19:17 masak but I don't understand the desire to replace everything with Perl (5 or 6) just for the sake of... purity or something
19:17 mst like the perl5 wiki itself essentially dying because it was based on socialtext and there isn't really an actively developed modern perl5 wiki but moving it to mediawiki kept being met with "BUT THAT ISN't PERL!!!1111"
19:17 masak Perl has always been a glue language, both technically and socially
19:17 ufobat i just think if you want express your enthusiasmn about something you should do more then just talk. ( and everyone here is doing it. so i am not complaing of being dogmatic )
19:18 masak ufobat: I understand that you don't mean it that way, but it *sounds* like you're being normative
19:18 ufobat no no no sorry!!
19:18 mst and zoffix is writing modules as well, so he's already doing much more than 'just talk', and yet you criticised him for using something that worked for his site
19:19 ufobat no sorry
19:19 buharin joined #perl6
19:19 buharin hi
19:19 buharin :)
19:19 mst I know you mean well, but the attitude/approach has proven time and time again to cause a lot more harm than good so I'm basically going 'aaaaaaaaa no please not again'
19:19 ufobat i didn't want to critisice him! i am really sorry if anyone understood it like that
19:20 kaare_ joined #perl6
19:20 mst yeah, it's ok, but having mentioned the previous problems, I hope you can see why I respond like that :)
19:23 RabidGravy and no-one has written a mailing list manager yet
19:24 ufobat i understand the problems that where mentioned. and it makes sense to use things that work. but .. yeah... if you blog about perl6 and a part of your blog uses perl6 somehow it just emphasizes your ideas
19:24 ufobat thats what i mean
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19:25 ufobat ZoffixWin, sorry if you felt offended.
19:25 ugexe if you write all the parts yourself maybe... otherwise it only really emphasizes not using the right tool for the job
19:26 Herby_ joined #perl6
19:26 Herby_ o/
19:29 mr-foobar joined #perl6
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19:41 psch does panda have a "update installed modules"?
19:42 ufobat in the end there is a difference between building something professional, that is designed to be lange or designed to be very robust and should be great right from the start and building something small, maybe for your own, or for others, maybe for just fun. And doing things again but differently might lead to good new ideas or evolve to become "big", "robust" or cool.
19:43 ufobat so i feel like "emphasizing that you are not using the right tool" it not always negative
19:44 ufobat or should not be negative for all cases
19:44 ufobat psch, panda --force install <module> does the job, i think
19:44 mst in practice any time you find yourself saying 'should' about somebody else's contributions to the community, you're implicitly being critical of anybody who chooses to contribute in a way you don't approve of
19:45 psch ufobat: i think that's more for "reinstall an already installed module even if it has the same version"
19:45 ufobat psch, but if there is a new version its updated... you mean updateing everthing that is already installed?
19:46 ecocode joined #perl6
19:46 psch ufobat: yes, with "update installed modules" i mean "updateing everything that is already installed" :)
19:46 ufobat psch, i thought a single installed one
19:46 psch ufobat: no problem, i actually have another problem first i noticed :)
19:47 ufobat mst, if you say should to to someone else contributions, yeah i fully agree. but thats not what i mean
19:47 mst ufobat: but it's what you *said*
19:48 mst "if it's about transporting enthusiasm to others perl6 should be on your 'list' somehow"
19:49 mst that is an implicit criticism of anybody who tries to do it another way
19:49 ufobat yeah, but thats what i am sorry for, thats what i didn't want to say like that
19:50 ufobat i never ment to criticize someone
19:51 grondilu I solve a new task on Rosetta Code.  I used my Clifford module.  The computation only took an hour ;P  !  http://rosettacode.org/wiki​/Multiple_regression#Perl_6
19:51 grondilu *solved
19:53 masak ufobat: I've been blogging with a Perl 6 static web page generator since 2010. I'm very glad the generator itself is in Perl 6. but the Markdown module is still a Perl 5 one.
19:53 masak ufobat: it was a pragmatic decision back in 2010, and it still kinda is. maybe this year I'll get to replace it with a Perl 6 CommonMark thing.
19:53 ufobat is just like "hey i'd like to blog something about perl. some part of my blogging is in perl because i like to do it that why and it makes fun to me" then everything fit's fine. and then its not a using the wrong tool just you didn't choose to run on a <great software> running on <great hardware> behind that <awesome firewall> and so one
19:54 ZoffixWin ufobat, nah, I wasn't offended or felt you were criticizing :)
19:54 ufobat thanks :)
19:55 masak ufobat: between Rakudo and nqp, there are still dozens of Perl 5 scripts powering everything from the build process to code generation.
19:56 masak ufobat: some would say that's horrible, or hypocritical, or weak. I say it's a time-saver, and a good use of a proven tool.
19:56 ufobat absolutly!
19:57 masak some day in the distant future, it might be a cool project to rid Perl 6 of its Perl 5 dependencies
19:57 masak but that's hard, for various reasons
19:57 ufobat but if someone writs a little not yet cool replacmenet, because he feels like doing so, and in the end it might a nice cool replacment
19:57 masak and there won't be a big win coming from it, except some kind of feeling of independence from the elder sibling
19:58 masak s/except/merely/
19:59 masak heh. "It outsources Markdown generation to Perl 5. This may or may not be a temporary solution." -- http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/d​og-food-with-a-distinct-perl6-flavor (6 years ago)
19:59 ufobat i think my point is really not being dogmatic or normative.... i am just meaning the opposite of "stating that something is cool and avoiding using it".
20:00 masak ufobat: what you wanted to say is "gee, I love it when people dogfood stuff!" :D
20:01 ufobat yeah maybe :)
20:01 masak "you go, dogfooders!" :P
20:02 mst ufobat: the trick is to phrase it as "I love it when X" rather than "people should X"
20:03 mst ufobat: that makes it a positive statement of your thing rather than being normative
20:03 mst ufobat: you can't claim to not be normative while using the word 'should', basically. I've found over the years that most sentences that contain the word 'should' become better sentences once you rephrase them
20:03 ufobat i'll take that for a good advice
20:04 * psch .oO( people should say "i love it when..." )
20:04 mst psch: http://trout.me.uk/seriously.jpg
20:05 ufobat i should think more before i write!
20:06 [Coke]_ ~~
20:09 masak handwave, [Coke]
20:09 masak the best thing I've ever heard about the word "should" is Guy Steele's quip that "should" is a lambda expression taking one parameter: the context in which applies
20:10 masak in which it* applies
20:11 [Coke] masak: blank stare.
20:11 masak [Coke]: uncomfortable look back.
20:11 jjido joined #perl6
20:12 mr-foobar joined #perl6
20:13 * masak .oO( reassessment of the wisdom to speak only in nouns )
20:14 mst First they came for the verbs, and I said nothing because verbing weirds language. Then they arrival for the nouns, and I speech nothing because I no verbs
20:16 skids joined #perl6
20:17 pmurias joined #perl6
20:17 * masak is reminded of http://www.panix.com/~tehom/allnoun/allnoun8.faq
20:23 dolmen joined #perl6
20:26 ufobat i feel like needing a rest after this discussion.. and being invited on a party last night :-) good night everyone
20:26 masak 'night, ufobat++
20:32 TEttinger joined #perl6
20:33 grondilu still trying to use Rakudo* on Windows.  First it complained about git missing, so I installed it from git-scm.com, but now: https://gist.github.com/grondilu/​f03f96622655bbfdf94a0b41cc739d90
20:33 timotimo it's helpfully not telling you what it tries to run
20:33 timotimo unless it does, and it's trying to invoke ""
20:39 mspo joined #perl6
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20:42 pmurias masak: re Perl 5 dependency of Perl 6, isn't the part that's hard to get rid of Configure?
20:44 sortiz \o #perl6
20:44 * RabidGravy changes META6 in a non-compatible way - waits for the deafening silence
20:48 masak pmurias: most likely, yes.
20:49 masak pmurias: having a Configure written in nqp ought to work, since there's a stage-0.
20:49 timotimo aye
20:49 timotimo if we distribute moar binaries, too, we can even have moar's Configure in nqp :P
20:50 tbrowder travis: still seeing travis build failure; I notice it's using rakudo 2016.01, why not rakudo 2016.04?
20:50 grondilu m: subset Even of Int where * %% 2; role A { multi method f(Even $) {...} }; class :: does A { multi method f(Even $) {} };
20:50 camelia rakudo-moar a16f0a: ( no output )
20:50 grondilu ^the above did not work on rakudo* on Windows.  Not sure if it's because of rakudo* or or windows.
20:51 dalek perl6-examples: 4d06b5b | (Tom Browder)++ | Makefile:
20:51 dalek perl6-examples: make the Makefile friendlier; remove colons from options (to avoid confusion)
20:51 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/4d06b5bd3a
20:51 dalek perl6-examples: d41f572 | paultcochrane++ | Makefile:
20:51 dalek perl6-examples: Merge pull request #42 from tbrowder/master
20:51 dalek perl6-examples:
20:51 dalek perl6-examples: make the Makefile friendlier; remove colons from options (to avoid co…
20:51 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/d41f57210a
20:51 sortiz grondilu, known problem with Readline on windows.
20:51 grondilu star: subset Even of Int where * %% 2; role A { multi method f(Even $) {...} }; class :: does A { multi method f(Even $) {} };
20:51 camelia star-m 2016.01: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/m5kVRKnLTu␤Multi method 'f' with signature :(<anon|81244144> $: Int $ where { ... }, *%_) must be implemented by <anon|81244144> because it is required by a role␤at /tmp/m5kVRKnLTu:1␤»
20:52 grondilu star: say $*VERSION
20:52 camelia star-m 2016.01: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable $*VERSION not found␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/UnoeORylvO line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/UnoeORylvO line 1␤␤»
20:53 grondilu star: say %*VM<VERSION>
20:53 camelia star-m 2016.01: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable %*VM not found␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/CYOcOOa6jh line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/CYOcOOa6jh line 1␤␤»
20:53 grondilu can't ever remember the name of the var containing the version number
20:53 grondilu star: say $?VERSION
20:53 camelia star-m 2016.01: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/PW6cMhs7bU␤Variable '$?VERSION' is not declared. Did you mean 'Version'?␤at /tmp/PW6cMhs7bU:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5$?VERSION␤»
20:55 grondilu star: say $*PERL.perl
20:55 camelia star-m 2016.01: OUTPUT«Perl.new(compiler => Compiler.new(id => "34C40ED80206941C844106C0BECEB​D0BCE0E58E3.1457701770.58478", release => "", codename => "", name => "rakudo", auth => "The Perl Foundation", version => Version.new('2016.1.1'), signature => Blob, desc => Str), name => "P…»
20:56 grondilu on http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/ I thought I would get the april edition.  Well not so much apparently.
20:57 grondilu star: say $*PERL.compiler.version
20:57 camelia star-m 2016.01: OUTPUT«v2016.1.1␤»
20:57 grondilu m: say $*PERL.compiler.version
20:57 camelia rakudo-moar a16f0a: OUTPUT«v2016.04.74.ga.16.f.0.a.4␤»
20:57 grondilu meh
20:57 sortiz tbrowder, see https://github.com/perl6/perl6-ex​amples/blob/master/.travis.yml#L6
21:00 sortiz tbrowder, keep '2016.01' is important for compat, but 'latest' can be added, thought.
21:00 timotimo keep 2016.01 weird!
21:03 sortiz timotimo, ??
21:06 wamba joined #perl6
21:07 timotimo nothing, just a random connection in my brain
21:18 sue joined #perl6
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21:35 masak 'night, #perl6
21:35 timotimo gnite masak
21:35 timotimo our masaked hero
21:36 mr-foobar joined #perl6
21:36 RabidGravy toodles
21:36 yasnothil joined #perl6
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22:05 ugexe zef has a prototype 'upgrade' command now to upgrade installed modules (inspired by psch's earlier comment)
22:10 BooK I see the core Version.pm has issues with git version numbers
22:15 cpage_ joined #perl6
22:16 timotimo m: say $*VM.version.perl
22:16 camelia rakudo-moar a16f0a: OUTPUT«v2016.04␤»
22:16 timotimo oh, er
22:20 RabidGravy BooK, that's kind of a trick question as git doesn't have version numbers
22:21 RabidGravy it does encourage the use of v on the release tags which don't work too great
22:23 RabidGravy but
22:24 RabidGravy m: say Version.new("645c96b72112adf​30b785e05fa71db081b1cebed")
22:24 camelia rakudo-moar a16f0a: OUTPUT«v645.c.96.b.72112.adf.30.b.​785.e.05.fa.71.db.081.b.1.cebed␤»
22:24 RabidGravy so yeah that sucks too
22:27 RabidGravy but then the only comparison that makes sense for them is equality anyway
22:27 timotimo that's right
22:27 timotimo it's not actually a version, or a number :)
22:40 AlexDaniel m: say :16<645c96b72112adf30b785e05fa71db081b1cebed>
22:40 camelia rakudo-moar a16f0a: OUTPUT«5729638747991731936382​82104870834911135227767789␤»
22:41 AlexDaniel timotimo: that's a great looking number :D
22:42 timotimo :P
22:43 AlexDaniel interesting, what are the chances that the “highest” hash will be in the, um, let's say last year
22:44 ugexe for security reasons i would hope 0
22:44 AlexDaniel since no new commits are added in the past, you can safely assume that the “latest” version will be moving forward
22:45 AlexDaniel ugexe: ok, good point :D
22:45 BooK RabidGravy: actually, the output of git describe is telling something about how far one is from the latest tag
22:46 BooK in Git::Version::Compare (perl 5), I'm dropping the gdeadbeef bit
22:46 sue joined #perl6
22:47 AlexDaniel okay, that's it: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/​fffe76ccc79a8373b16e1172999c1d4aedf70a20
22:47 RabidGravy well do feel free to make a P6 version that returns a comparable Version
22:48 AlexDaniel the smallest one seems to be this: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/​00006b16dd961d20bc20e1ac1d32df6d44320e05
22:48 AlexDaniel .oO( I should probably stop this nonsense and just go to bed )
22:49 timotimo you can't compare versions in git. the concept doesn't make any sense except for equality or when shas are strictly in a row
22:50 timotimo and even then you'd have to have all sha1s in between to figure that out reliably :)
22:50 AlexDaniel but there are some interesting properties to such versioning: 1) there's no need to decide when we the release has to be made. If you want the release to happen sooner, then just commit more! 2) Over time releases will be less frequent, which kinda makes sense
22:51 AlexDaniel /we//
22:51 psch but git refs aren't ordered..?
22:53 BooK actually, `git describe` gives number of additional commits after the tag
22:53 BooK but because branches, that's not enough to disambiguate, hence the abbrievated sha1 after the 'g'
22:53 AlexDaniel psch: not sure if you got my crazy idea. The point is that we take the highest sha out of all commits, and treat that as the latest version of the software
22:53 timotimo if you drop the gf00f00 bit, you can just move the tag and have something else with the same version
22:54 timotimo or even just have a branching point after the tag
22:54 BooK yup
22:54 BooK https://metacpan.org/pod/Git::Versio​n::Compare#EVERYTHING-YOU-EVER-WANTE​D-TO-KNOW-ABOUT-GIT-VERSION-NUMBERS
22:54 AlexDaniel psch: new commits will most probably have sha hash that is “smaller”, but at some point a commit will pop up with a bigger hash. Hooray, we have a new release!
22:54 psch AlexDaniel: oh.  so it's not supposed to be reasonable? :)
22:55 AlexDaniel psch: of course not
22:55 jast that makes it kind of important to enforce passing tests for all commits :)
22:56 jast also, for cheating, there's a script somewhere to bruteforce prefixes for git commit IDs
22:56 BooK although, re-reading thatm , ifI don't find it fvery clear
22:56 BooK my connection is flaky, so my messages may not make much sense :-)
22:58 timotimo i've had a bit of energy for improving the spesh grapher, but not enough to improve spesh's optimizer :\
22:59 sufrostico joined #perl6
23:01 _nadim timotimo: did the broken grammar that core dumped tell you anything?
23:02 timotimo didn't actually even run it at all ;(
23:03 _nadim did the extra module stop you, I can remove those three lines
23:03 timotimo that'd be helpful
23:04 _nadim do you have grammar::Tracer or you want that one removed too?
23:04 kurahaupo_ joined #perl6
23:07 _nadim meh! doesn't core dump without.
23:07 timotimo i need as few dependencies as possible :)
23:07 timotimo like, if you can make it crash with purely nqp code, that'd be crazy good
23:08 _nadim I removed the call to Data::Dump::Tree and it does't crash anymore. Damit!
23:15 mr-foobar joined #perl6
23:22 SHODAN joined #perl6
23:26 timotimo i've caught a flu or something ... i need to get to bed \:
23:38 wamba joined #perl6
23:39 _nadim timotimo: get well, I'll hunt a golfed version

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