Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-06-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:25 sammers good morning from Japan
01:26 diakopter o/
01:27 sammers is there a way to get the current line / row index when looping over slurped file lines?
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01:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:07 Guest2253 help
02:07 Guest2253 help anyone
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02:14 tbrowder_ someone needs help? what can we do for you?
02:16 geekosaur they left already
02:17 tbrowder_ I think most of the heavy hitters have left for the evening
02:18 tbrowder_ nite all
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02:46 dj_goku p6: for ['a','b','c'].kv -> $i, $v { say "index $i has a value of $v" }
02:46 camelia rakudo-moar 1254bb: OUTPUT«index 0 has a value of a␤index 1 has a value of b␤index 2 has a value of c␤»
02:46 dj_goku sammers: ^^
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03:14 sortiz \o #perl6
03:14 yoleaux 5 Jun 2016 12:51Z <FROGGS> sortiz: I you wanna tackle something in XML::LibXML, pick either a still failing test file or grab a new test file from t/to-be-ported and move it to t
03:14 dj_goku sammers: probably this is what you want: for $file.lines.List.kv -> $index, $line { say $index, $line }
03:16 sortiz .tell FROGGS Sure, test-driven is the better approach.
03:16 yoleaux sortiz: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
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06:16 vermiforme hey hey
06:16 vermiforme newbie here
06:17 nine vermiforme: welcome!
06:17 yoleaux 7 Jun 2016 11:33Z <llfourn> nine: I've tested the bugfix branch, results: RT #128156. Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I only just saw your request for tests. RT doesn't seem to be forwarding me follow-ups for this thread for some reason =(.
06:17 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=128156
06:17 vermiforme wondering if there was interest in SPARQL and RDF here
06:18 vermiforme thanks nine
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06:21 nine .tell jdv79 do you happen to use Perl 5.24?
06:21 yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to jdv79.
06:21 vermiforme I'm sick of procedual database/web stuff. I want , for lack of a better term, "Lazy Functional reasoning"
06:22 nine vermiforme: sounds intriguing
06:22 vermiforme Yes nine
06:23 vermiforme I work/hate .NET and PHP, and there are good ideas going on there
06:24 vermiforme LINQ is a way forward, but I want more
06:25 nine That's the spirit :)
06:26 vermiforme The tricky part is the balance between parsing results, and composing the query
06:30 vermiforme The thing I find with dealing with query result, is the freking loop
06:32 vermiforme 'night  nine, will explore some other related channels. might come back
06:32 vermiforme \q
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06:52 Xliff vermiforme has some nice ideas, but it will be tricky building a <yourlanghere> -> SQL parser.
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06:55 Xliff Tony-O's Slang::SQL is about the closest out there: https://github.com/tony-o/perl6-slang-sql
07:01 Xliff sammers, you can do this: for $file_handle.lines.kv - > $k, $v { ... }. Where $k is your index and $v is the line text.
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07:22 masak good morning, #perl6
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07:22 azawawi Good morning
07:23 azawawi is there a way in Perl 6 to access a private attribute in a subclass other than making read/write to the outside world?
07:24 moritz azawawi: you can have a private accessor method, and then in the parent class explicitly trust the subclass
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07:26 azawawi moritz: do you have an example snippet please?
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07:31 moritz azawawi: http://perlpunks.de/paste/show/5757c9d4.6bd2.391
07:32 azawawi moritz: but that means a parent needs to know about its children :)
07:33 moritz azawawi: sure; otherwise *any* class could declare it to be a children, making the privacy of the private attribute worthless
07:33 moritz s/children/child/
07:33 * azawawi wishes if Perl 6 had protected
07:33 moritz azawawi: if you allow any odd subclass to access the private attribute, it's part of the public API
07:33 moritz and you could just make it public
07:34 azawawi i will give u the problem im facing right now
07:34 moritz from an encapsulation standpoint, protected isn't better than public. It just gives you a false sense of "this is not *really* public"
07:34 azawawi https://github.com/azawawi/gtk-simple/bl​ob/master/lib/GTK/Simple/RadioButton.pm6
07:34 jast well, 'protected' is a hint to developers, mainly
07:35 azawawi now RadioButton should be a child of CheckButton per GTK documentation
07:35 jast except in languages where 'protected' limits access to the same namespace and extending a namespace from an third-party module is impossible
07:36 azawawi making $!gtk_widget an accessor = changing all the GTK::Simple:: classes
07:36 azawawi https://github.com/azawawi/gtk-simple/bl​ob/master/lib/GTK/Simple/CheckButton.pm6
07:36 azawawi https://github.com/azawawi/gtk-simple/blo​b/master/lib/GTK/Simple/ToggleButton.pm6
07:37 moritz azawawi: nah, it's enough if you write a public accessor in CheckButton, and then use that in it's subclasses
07:37 moritz you don't have to touch every GTK::Simple class for that
07:37 masak I'm with moritz on this one; protected is a sham and a dilution of what little purity OOP has
07:37 azawawi ideally RadioButton is a CheckButton which is a ToggleButton which does a Widget
07:38 moritz azawawi: or you could give it a public accessor, but continue to use the private attribute where you can
07:38 azawawi cool
07:38 azawawi i will try that
07:49 DrForr Egads. I've been nperez'd.
07:50 moritz DrForr: what does that mean?
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07:51 DrForr I submitted 4 talks so ::EU could choose, I just got all 4 accepted.
07:51 DrForr Fixing this momentarily, or at least explaining.
07:52 moritz DrForr: well, if that's too much, you could always only accept some of them, and talk to the organizers :-)
07:52 moritz the earlier, the easier for the organizers
07:52 DrForr Well, luckily I sit 3 desks away from the organizer in question.
07:53 * moritz hated last minute schedule changes at GPW2016
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08:04 DrForr Hrm. my $T̶e̶s̶t̶-foo = 1; # I see skewer-case in our future.
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08:19 Xliff .tell FROGGS If you need more help with XML::LibXML test cases, let me know!
08:19 yoleaux Xliff: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
08:20 DrForr Heyo - apparently I've forgotten the invocation in here-docs to suppress interpolating {} blocks.
08:21 DrForr :c maybe?...
08:21 Xliff DrForr, you mean q:to[something] still does interpolation?
08:22 DrForr Didn't remember if it was the ;to bits or not, looking now.
08:22 DrForr I've got p6 code that I need to write inside p6 code and escaping braces is annoying.
08:23 Xliff *nods*
08:23 * Xliff smells the need for eval()
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08:23 DrForr Well, what I really need are p6 macros but I'll take what I can get.
08:24 Xliff I wouldn't mind eval() so much but... MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL
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08:25 Xliff That lil ugly bit has forced me to rethink several scripts I've developed over the past few months.
08:26 Xliff \o RabidGravy
08:26 RabidGravy harr
08:26 Xliff How goes?
08:27 RabidGravy fabulous
08:28 Xliff OK, here's my problem with OAuth2. It depends on a GUI. Well.... you could do without, but it would be a pain.
08:29 Xliff I've spent the past week trying to work around that pesky requirement. Only way I can think of doing it is grabbing the HTML, parsing the form fields, querying the user (if necessary) and then packaging the request back to the server.
08:29 jast the only thing it depends on is user interaction
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08:29 jast yeah, usually that's your only option unless the provider offers a separate interface
08:29 Xliff jast: Yeah, but if you already have the credentials, it doesn't even need that.
08:30 jast well, the idea with OAuth is having the user confirm that they're okay with sharing their data or something like that
08:30 DrForr chomp(q:to[END]) ~ "($a,$b)" # works, but *HOO* boy does that look ugly.
08:30 Xliff jast: Certainly could do without the need for a browser and a webserver. But that's just me.
08:31 jast otherwise websites could secretly steal your data (e.g. your e-mail address, in many cases)
08:31 Xliff Heh. I understand the purpose, but the implementation is overly complex.
08:31 jast I'm not exactly a fan of OAuth 2, either
08:31 Xliff =)
08:31 DrForr Xliff: This is why I had someone else do the implementation.
08:32 jast and don't get me started on the many different implementations in practice
08:32 Xliff DrForr: LOL! And what did you use, if you don't mind me asking?
08:32 DrForr And if you think that's bad try CORS for banking sites.
08:32 jast the worst offender is twitter where an app needs to register and use a secret key (for a public API...)
08:32 Xliff DrForr: Oh no.... I stay clear of the financial sector if I can help it!!!
08:32 jast and they block your key if they find it online, so you can't have an open source app with twitter support unless you cheat
08:33 Xliff jast: Eve-Online is just as bad.
08:33 DrForr What I said above. chomp(q:to[END]) ~ "($a,$b)" ~ '}'; # with the rest of the statement below.
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08:34 jast I just know that when I tried to write a tiny CLI twitter client, that's where I threw my hands up in defeat
08:36 timotimo DrForr: did you figure out it's :!c to not get curlies interpolated?
08:36 Xliff timotimo to the rescue.
08:36 Xliff I was just about to suggest using Q:to[]
08:37 timotimo with Q you don't get any interpolation whatsoever
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08:37 timotimo but it looks like DrForr still wants to have $a and $b interpolated
08:37 Xliff Oh. Yikes!
08:38 Xliff I didn't catch that requriement.
08:38 timotimo have to read between the lines :)
08:38 Xliff Yes, but it is almost 5am here and the lines are starting to run together. ;) =P
08:39 timotimo ah
08:40 DrForr timotimo: Yeah, it's kind of a "want it both ways" situation. What I'd really like is $x,(,$a,,$b) like CLISP macros :)
08:40 timotimo well, i don't know clisp macros at all
08:40 timotimo i just know its quote language is ridiculous :)
08:43 Xliff What is this sudden craving for sunflower seeds and chocolate?!?!?!
08:44 masak Xliff: maybe you're pregnant...?
08:44 * Xliff knew someone was going to make that joke...
08:44 Xliff No. I may have a beer belly, but I am not pregnant....
08:44 Xliff I did have face-hugger nightmares recently.... hmmmm....
08:44 masak or could just be that sunflower seeds and chocolate are tasty
08:45 Xliff Let's go with that.
08:45 Xliff And the auto-doc....
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08:45 * Xliff goes to find some chocolate.
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08:47 psch m: my ($a, $b) = 1, 2; say q[have some curlies: { }, but also have \qq[$a and $b]]
08:47 camelia rakudo-moar 1254bb: OUTPUT«have some curlies: { }, but also have 1 and 2␤»
08:47 psch DrForr: ^^^ that's how i'd do that.  as in, drop into qq for what you want interpolated inside q
08:47 masak whoa.
08:48 masak didn't know we had that.
08:49 psch yeah, that happens to me quite a lot too :)
08:50 timotimo whoa. i also didn't realize you could \qq
08:51 Xliff \o/
08:51 Xliff psch++
08:52 Woodi so, who implemented that ? aliens ??
08:52 Xliff qq inside of q inside of..... Wait...almost got carried away!
08:53 * Woodi is sometimes shocked that some ppls actually know *a lot* of Perl6 :)
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08:56 DrForr If it lets me do the entire block in one heredoc I'm all for it, other routes are uglier.
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09:00 DrForr Aah, much cleaner, thanks.
09:01 DrForr Feels like the old ${\{}} or whatever it was in p5, but at least the qq[] makes it more visible.
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09:07 psch DrForr: well, it works the other way around as well, fwiw
09:07 psch m: my ($a, $b) = 1, 2; say qq[have some curlies: \q[{ }], but also have $a and $b]
09:07 camelia rakudo-moar 1254bb: OUTPUT«have some curlies: { }, but also have 1 and 2␤»
09:08 psch DrForr: i guess the choice depends which is the more common desired behavior :)
09:08 psch +on
09:09 DrForr Pfft, it lets me lay out the code as I want without getting my eyes continually backslashed.
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09:23 konobi saw something kinda cool that might be a useful tool for use
09:23 konobi https://www.joyent.com/blog/550-regressi​on-tests-in-4-minutes-with-joyent-manta
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09:53 Ven .tell brrt interesting LuaJIT talk by one of the current DartVM engineers: http://mrale.ph/talks/vmss16
09:53 yoleaux Ven: I'll pass your message to brrt.
09:55 rurban1 brrt: note that I already argued with the dartvm devs about their bad usage of the int vs ptr tag usage. lua and most lisps did it better. ints need to be tagged, ptrs need to have 0b00. dartvm need to mask all ptrs, and int arith is basically the same with or without tags.
09:56 rurban1 nan tagging also helps a lot, and relying on fast SSE arith
09:58 rurban1 the optional continuation/meta ptr in the lua callframe is also much better for dynamic langs.
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09:58 konobi Ven: terralang is also pretty interesting too
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10:00 rurban1 and potion, tvmjit, wren, … and most lisps.
10:01 rurban1 and lua 5.2 broke all this for proper int32 types
10:02 rurban1 which is the same problem as in perl5. cannot use tagged ints
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10:04 konobi rurban1: would an alternate mapping work?
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10:14 masak is there a way to `use` all of some module, except for one sub which I want to define myself?
10:14 masak if I just `use` it in the normal way, I get a redeclaration error
10:14 masak let's say for concreteness that I want all of `use Test;`, except for the `is` routine
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10:27 RabidGravy m: use Test <!&is>; # something like this would be nice
10:27 camelia rakudo-moar d86dc4: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/BAyjjGrmei␤Error while importing from 'Test':␤no EXPORT sub, but you provided positional argument in the 'use' statement␤at /tmp/BAyjjGrmei:1␤------> 3use Test <!&is>7⏏5; # something like this woul…»
10:28 RabidGravy m: use Test :except<&is>; # something like this would be nice
10:28 camelia rakudo-moar d86dc4: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/SDNsKFh4N8␤Error while importing from 'Test': no such tag 'except'␤at /tmp/SDNsKFh4N8:1␤------> 3use Test :except<&is>7⏏5; # something like this would be nice␤»
10:28 masak I'm very far from requiring new syntax or anything of the sort
10:29 masak but I do have a real use case right now where it'd be nice to be able to selectively override some stuff from an imported module
10:29 RabidGravy oh no, it's all doable, but I suspect it's import only the things you want
10:29 masak I don't care how it ends up looking in the end. as long as it works
10:29 masak currently getting `no EXPORT sub, but you provided positional argument in the 'use' statement`
10:30 masak where can I read more about this EXPORT sub? S11 doesn't seem to have the full scoop
10:30 * masak checks the spectests
10:32 konobi maybe an exclusion set?
10:34 RabidGravy right, off out now
10:34 RabidGravy toodles
10:34 masak \o
10:37 masak by reading the Rakudo source code I found out what the EXPORT sub is and what it's expected to return
10:37 masak but I've found neither synopsis nor spectest to explain this
10:37 masak could be just me being bad at searching, of course
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10:42 arnsholt The docs being incomplete wouldn't be *terribly* surprising either, though =)
10:42 masak oh, there's one `sub EXPORT` in the spectests
10:42 masak it's a bugfix
10:42 masak but it does show the general principle, which I already guessed correctly
10:44 arnsholt Heh
10:44 masak yay, now it works! :D
10:44 masak I can selectively import things :>
10:44 arnsholt That's one of the most useful things I've learned from the Perl 6 project, really. Effective source-code spelunking
10:44 masak yes, but that should never be the accepted status quo or the steady state
10:45 masak every time that happens, something else should happen too
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10:45 masak the Ember project doesn't have a "documentation" team, they have a "learning" team
10:45 masak because they figure it's never just about the document, it's about a comprehensive cross-cutting effort to bring people up the learning curve more effectively
10:46 konobi rurban: would an intermediary representation work for lua JIT and ints?
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10:50 arnsholt masak: Ooh, yeah. Calling it learning instead of documentation is a much better name
10:51 rurban no, luajit has no intermediate compile stage, no SSE. The ints it can unbox it unboxes, the rest are refs.
10:51 rurban In lua 5.2 all ints are now refs, hence luajit refused to update to the 5.2 language.
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10:53 rurban NAN tagging helps, as a double can hold all ints. But what about the ptr - int distuingishment for the ffi then
10:53 konobi rurban: no, but terralang.org does
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11:18 konobi rurban: with reflection too, iirc
11:34 Xliff masak: Re selective export - What worked out in the end?
11:35 * sjn also likes the "learning" perspective masak mentioned
11:35 sjn that's a really good way to think about docs
11:35 Xliff sjn: What? Code diving?
11:36 sjn Xliff: re: masak's comment at 12:45 today
11:36 masak Xliff: defining that `sub EXPORT`, and having it put together a custom hash based on the parameter list.
11:36 Xliff Yeah. Marked 6:45 here cos.... EDT
11:36 sjn ah :)
11:36 masak Xliff: I can package it as a commit and link it here.
11:36 Xliff masak: Is there a link to the example you found?
11:36 * sjn assumes everyone lives in central Europe :D
11:37 Xliff kk
11:37 Xliff sjn: And I just assume everyone knows GMT and just do the conversions in my head.
11:37 Xliff Even though I live East Coast US, I have learned that GMT is.... definitive.
11:39 masak Xliff: https://github.com/masak/007/commit/5b​4eaa0cdda40ac43ef749672a3b51e807cb4073
11:40 huf_ Xliff: GMT has been superseded by UTC because there's always another standard :)
11:45 Xliff masak++: Didn't know about the hash assignment-and-fetch. Nice to know.
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11:45 Xliff huf_, until UTC becomes global... I'm ignoring it.
11:46 huf_ it's not global?
11:46 Xliff Not enough for me. Honestly I don't know how wide it's spread now but I am still seeing GMT instead of UTC...so
11:46 huf_ oh come on
11:46 huf_ i'm still seeing IV but the roman empire has fallen a while ago
11:47 Xliff And from Google: "There is no time difference between Greenwich Mean Time and Coordinated Universal Time"
11:47 Xliff So I think I'm safe! ;)
11:47 huf_ yes, which is why my original line had a :) on the end
11:47 Xliff Ah. Missed that.
11:48 Xliff And just because something is "dead" doesn't mean that there aren't lingering organs still in use! =)
11:49 huf_ with strange aeons even death may die
11:49 Xliff I mean... there's still a Visual BASIC -- Haven't computers evolved enough to ignore that? It's like the human tail bone! It's there... but not.
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11:59 rurban I just had to fix schwern's time64 tests because he based those tests on PTC (Pacific) and they failed in CET, in certain hours in the evening, where europe is already in the new day. With UTC (greenwhich time) the tests are now much more stable to such off-by-ones.
12:00 rurban does per6 use time64? many langs do. we fixed a lot there recently. see the pull requests.
12:00 rurban but nothing serious, just performance and better tests
12:07 kyrose m: say "Hello everyone!\nHow it's going!";
12:07 camelia rakudo-moar 9942c4: OUTPUT«Hello everyone!␤How it's going!␤»
12:08 masak Xliff: turns out there was already a hash with what I wanted, so I managed to get rid of some code: https://github.com/masak/007/commit/b9​8fb69227215c8dd828e2f397f493a0fa274026
12:08 masak Xliff: I can think of a way to get rid of the `%exports` variable and the for loop, too. but I haven't tried yet.
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12:15 Woodi I just make naive code diving hour ago... I give up in 2 minutes or something like that :)  rakudo/src/Perl6/Actions.nqp/[wanted|WANTED] - I even have no set of ideas what it can do :)
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12:17 masak Woodi: that's when you `git blame` and read the commit message.
12:18 Woodi also discovered that semicate problem is already discovered... however main solution is: drop C, use something with "option type" :)  started to thinking C is simplest posible language ever... even asm can do more ;)
12:18 Woodi masak: o, excuse to learn git blame :)
12:18 Woodi thanx :)
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12:19 masak in this case, it'll lead you to f95c14402, with the topic line "Great Sink Refactor"
12:19 masak so "wanted nodes" are connected to the whole "useless use" thing
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12:21 Woodi *semipredicate there...
12:22 masak excuse me?
12:24 masak oh, that backlog. got it.
12:25 Xliff "drop C" -- *gasp* -- how could you?! =)
12:26 masak there are many excellent reasons not to write things in C nowadays :)
12:26 masak also, you're not considering language usage a zero-sum game, are you? because it mostly isn't
12:26 Woodi yea, Perl was announced in 80's ? :)
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12:28 Xliff masak: Yes, C can be a pain however...there was sarcasm.
12:28 Woodi masak: no, just simplicistic view
12:28 azawawi http://pasteboard.co/1wSaC4JE.png  # GTK::Simple::RadioButton in action :)
12:28 Xliff And nowadays you use the language that's best for the task. Language interoperability is high!
12:28 Woodi and git blame requires a big screen...
12:28 masak or a small typeface
12:29 masak azawawi: neat!
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12:30 Xliff azawawi++
12:30 Woodi any idea what new MONKEY-* can be later ?
12:30 Xliff How much of GTK is covered in GTK::Simple?
12:31 perlpilot Woodi: MONKEY-MONKEY   ;)
12:32 Woodi perlpilot: but I asked about *code* :)
12:34 Woodi azawawi: any way to make examples to not be so damn gray ? I see IDE in screenshot is't such ugly...
12:34 * Woodi have brain burned out by gtk industrial gray...
12:34 azawawi :)
12:41 azawawi https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/pull/49
12:41 * azawawi going home & :)
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12:43 pmurias masak: has anything really taken the high performance thing that's easy to use from other language niche?
12:43 pmurias s/taken/taken over/
12:43 masak pmurias: not really, no. that's probably also a good use for C++.
12:44 masak pmurias: note that I'm not saying there are no uses left for C. that'd be a ridiculous statement at this point.
12:44 masak pmurias: I'm just saying there are reasons to choose something else in many cases. :)
12:44 _mg_ joined #perl6
12:45 * perlpilot notes that fortran was once "the high performance thing that's easy to use from other language"
12:45 perlpilot (and often the other language was C IME :)
12:45 rurban joined #perl6
12:49 stmuk_ I think go and rust have similar performance to C for many things
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12:59 arnsholt perlpilot: Yeah, I think Fortran is still the high-performance language of choice for those who are super into performance (climate sims and such, for example)
12:59 arnsholt IIRC it's something to do with Fortran disallowing pointer aliasing entirely, which makes it easier to optimize
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13:02 jnthn iirc, also recursion is fairly constrained
13:02 jnthn So you don't need call frames.
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13:03 pmurias masak: C++ has it's own set of problems
13:04 perlpilot prior to fortran 90, fortran didn't have recursion, so ... F77 anf F67 were really constrained in that regard :)
13:04 rurban1 can moarvm already do tail-call elimination?
13:05 masak pmurias: you keep making counterpoints to things I didn't really say ;)
13:05 masak pmurias: yes, C++ has its own set of problems, distinct from C's
13:05 rurban1 @stmuk_: go not, rust yes. pony even better than C++ with openmp, and safer and easier than rust
13:07 avalenn_ rurban1: is your pony http://www.ponylang.org/ ?
13:08 timotimo rurban1: moarvm cannot do that yet, no
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13:35 rurban1 avalenn_: yes
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13:35 * azawawi reporting for Perl 6 fun duty :)
13:36 azawawi https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/pull/49  # Any feedback before merging pull?
13:36 rurban1 timotimo: I'm also still working on proper tce in cperl. (tail call elimination). at least cperl has now proper tailcalls, reusing the stack and pads (locals and args).
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13:36 timotimo that's good
13:38 timotimo just yesterday i heard someone say "well, everybody complains about the GIL, but i think it really only costs like 10% performance, because when you're using all cores, it'll be faster, obviously!"
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13:39 azawawi RabidGravy: boom :)
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13:48 dalek gtk-simple: 648855f | azawawi++ | / (3 files):
13:48 dalek gtk-simple: More places sidebar properties
13:48 dalek gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gt​k-simple/commit/648855f3e1
13:48 dalek gtk-simple: 3b2c302 | azawawi++ | lib/GTK/Simple/Raw.pm6:
13:48 dalek gtk-simple: Tidy code a bit and fix copy & paste
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13:57 ilmari how does "unit class Foo" differ from "class Foo"? I can't find anything on docs.perl6.org
13:57 psch m: class Foo;
13:57 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/kyhpVNrXb4␤Semicolon form of 'class' without 'unit' is illegal.  You probably want to use 'unit class'␤at /tmp/kyhpVNrXb4:1␤------> 3class Foo;7⏏5<EOL>␤»
13:57 psch that's the only difference i know of
13:58 ilmari m: unit class Foo { }
13:58 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ykRHMpQ5rR␤Cannot use 'unit' with block form of class declaration␤at /tmp/ykRHMpQ5rR:1␤------> 3unit class Foo7⏏5 { }␤    expecting any of:␤        generic role␤»
13:58 timotimo what about "sub EXPORT must be in unit scope"?
13:58 timotimo i think that means if you have a unit class Foo, it'll go inside the class (by necessity) and if you have a class Foo { ... } it'll go outside
13:58 ilmari but where is "unit" documented?
13:58 llfourn probably isn't tbh
13:58 timotimo http://doc.perl6.org/language/modules
13:59 timotimo oh
13:59 timotimo not documented
13:59 timotimo but used
13:59 ilmari yeah
14:00 timotimo so seems like the docs want to be written about this
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14:02 llfourn there a number of package topics NYD
14:03 * perlpilot still isn't sure about the necessity of "unit"
14:04 perlpilot at least I don't remember why we went from "class Foo;" to "unit class Foo;"
14:05 azawawi because 'unit class' is cooler? :)
14:05 psch perlpilot: the commit (14e680733) alludes to one-pass parsing
14:05 perlpilot If it was to remove the ambiguity of what "class Foo;" means, that's good, but I don't quite see how that jibes with the NYI scope declarator
14:05 geekosaur forward declarations
14:05 perlpilot m: unit $a;
14:05 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/r4fdmXaX7P␤unit scoped variables not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at /tmp/r4fdmXaX7P:1␤------> 3unit $a7⏏5;␤    expecting any of:␤        constraint␤»
14:05 * ilmari thought it was something like scala's "sealed trait", i.e. can't be extended outside the compilation unit it's declared in
14:06 psch notably the "A semicolon [...] is too late" bit
14:09 timotimo we should add "no return;" so that people can ask "what's the point of 'no return;'?"
14:11 tadzik hah!
14:12 tadzik I convinced $employer to have a thing ported to perl 6 while I do the refactoring of it :D
14:12 perlpilot tadzik++
14:12 * tadzik praises nine++ for Inline::Perl5
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14:13 perlpilot indeed, Inline::Perl5 (and the other work nine has done) are the best shot at "bootstrapping" Perl 6 into a Perl 5 world.
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14:41 gregf_ m: sub upcase($i,$c) { $i %2 == 0 ?? $c.uc !! $c; }; say "greetings perl6".comb.kv.map(&upcase).join
14:41 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«GrEeTiNgS PeRl6␤»
14:44 rgrinberg joined #perl6
14:45 Xliff Eesh! Reading the GTK docs is hard.
14:45 timotimo yes, it is :(
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14:49 Xliff deprecated
14:49 Xliff oops
14:49 Xliff timotimo, also incomplete. But then again GTK is huge.
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15:02 azawawi Xliff: https://github.com/perl6/gtk​-simple/tree/master/examples :)
15:02 rgrinberg joined #perl6
15:04 azawawi tadzik: ping
15:04 rgrinberg joined #perl6
15:04 Xliff azawawi: What's that? Current progress?
15:05 azawawi Xliff: Perl 6 examples that you can use
15:05 Xliff Ah...
15:05 Xliff Already forked. ;)
15:05 azawawi noooo lol
15:05 azawawi :)
15:06 timotimo NO LOL | NO PROJECT EULER
15:06 azawawi .tell tadzik Please take a look at https://github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/316
15:06 yoleaux azawawi: I'll pass your message to tadzik.
15:06 azawawi timotimo: :)
15:07 azawawi ~ 1 hr 45 min  till breaking fast... low on sugar :)
15:07 Xliff azawawi: Only forked coz....pull requests. :P
15:08 Xliff Assuming my ambitions aren't more ambitions than me.
15:10 azawawi i hate that 3055 error https://travis-ci.org/perl6/gt​k-simple/jobs/135217602#L1197
15:10 azawawi with passion
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15:16 * azawawi starts working on https://developer.gnome.org/g​tk3/stable/GtkLinkButton.html
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15:48 azawawi http://pasteboard.co/1x5h09il.png  # GTK::Simple::LinkButton :)
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15:55 Juerd https://gist.github.com/Juerd/b​6531810922d0cefec82b650be4915ca  # b2gills suggests using .^name instead of .WHAT, but I've only ever seen .WHAT in examples as far as I can remember. Any opinions about which is best for example codes gear toward beginning Perl 6 programmers?
15:55 Juerd s/gear/geared/
15:57 b2gills The main thing is .WHAT on an undefined object is a no-op, whereas .^name returns a Str
15:59 Juerd b2gills: What do you mean? "say Str.WHAT" does say "(Str)"
15:59 b2gills Str.WHAT is exactly the same as Str
15:59 Juerd Why is that a problem?
15:59 b2gills m: say Str; say Str.WHAT
15:59 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«(Str)␤(Str)␤»
16:00 Juerd It's like "A".uc, I think
16:00 retupmoca .WHAT returns an object and .^name returns a string, IIRC
16:01 retupmoca m: say Int.WHAT.WHAT; say Str.^name.WHAT;
16:01 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«(Int)␤(Str)␤»
16:01 b2gills I just find it annoying
16:02 Juerd b2gills: I'm more sensitive to technical arguments than emotional ones :)
16:02 retupmoca m: say Int.WHAT.WHAT; say Int.^name.WHAT; # both Int makes it more clear
16:02 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«(Int)␤(Str)␤»
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16:02 b2gills and in example code, it makes new Perl 6 programmers think it does something other than what it actually does
16:02 Juerd What do you reckon they will think it does?
16:02 b2gills Return the name
16:03 Juerd But if you use .^name in example code, they might be more inclined to do $foo.^name eq 'Str' than $foo.WHAT ~~ Str
16:04 Juerd I don't have a smart match like that in there yet, but I intend to
16:04 b2gills and they may think that 「'the type is ' ~ 42.WHAT」 might work ( it doesn't )
16:04 b2gills They should do $foo ~~ Str
16:04 Juerd No, but then they run into a very helpful error message...
16:04 Juerd b2gills: Yes, they should. Hm.
16:05 b2gills or $foo.WHAT =:= Str to make sure it is of the same type
16:05 Juerd I will not use =:= in any example code if I can avoid it at all.
16:05 b2gills nor should you for most purposes
16:06 literal wasn't there some shorthand for <[0..9 a..z A..Z]> ?
16:06 literal err. I mean a..f A..F
16:07 * azawawi food & :)
16:08 ilmari don't perl6 regexes have named posix character classes, e.g. [:xdigit:]?
16:09 raiph joined #perl6
16:10 b2gills m: say 'aF' ~~ /<xdigit>+/
16:10 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«「aF」␤ xdigit => 「a」␤ xdigit => 「F」␤»
16:10 literal ah ok
16:11 ilmari m: say 'af' ~~ /<:Hex_Digit>/
16:11 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«「a」␤»
16:11 ilmari m: say 'af' ~~ /<:Hex_Digit>+/
16:11 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«「af」␤»
16:11 ilmari m: say 'axf' ~~ /<:Hex_Digit>+/
16:11 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«「a」␤»
16:11 ilmari (that's the unicode property name)
16:13 raiph joined #perl6
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16:15 b2gills m: ((0.. 0x10FFFF).grep: *.uniprop: 'Hex_Digit').map: *.chr.print
16:15 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«0123456789ABCDEFabc​def0123456789ABCDEFabcdef»
16:16 dalek gtk-simple: 5dd0726 | azawawi++ | / (6 files):
16:16 dalek gtk-simple: Add LinkButton widget
16:16 dalek gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gt​k-simple/commit/5dd0726f8b
16:16 dalek gtk-simple: da08826 | azawawi++ | / (6 files):
16:16 dalek gtk-simple: Merge pull request #50 from azawawi/master
16:16 dalek gtk-simple:
16:16 dalek gtk-simple: Add LinkButton widget
16:16 dalek gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gt​k-simple/commit/da08826008
16:16 tony-o where did $*OS move to?
16:16 b2gills m: ((0.. 0x10FFFF).grep: {.chr ~~ /<xdigit>/}).map: *.chr.print
16:17 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«0123456789ABCDEFabcdef»
16:17 tony-o ah, brain fart
16:18 _mg_ joined #perl6
16:19 azawawi joined #perl6
16:19 azawawi m: say $*DISTRO.perl
16:19 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«Distro.new(release => "13.2", is-win => Bool::False, path-sep => ":", name => "opensuse", auth => "https://opensuse.org/", version => v13.2.Harlequin, signature => Blob, desc => "2016-06-08T18:19:46.210396+02:00")␤»
16:20 azawawi tony-o: $*OS -> $*DISTRO  # if i remember correctly
16:20 tony-o yes sir
16:21 sjn should using $*OS give a warning?
16:21 tony-o it's been that way for a long time :) i'm working on doing automated test reports when you install modules with `zef` - does panda have a plugin type system i can write something like that for?
16:30 raiph joined #perl6
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16:43 gregf_ dumb question: is it possible to have abstract methods in a role that force the consumer to implement them?
16:43 nine gregf_: not dumb at all and yes it's possible
16:43 nine gregf_: just declare them like this: method foo() { ... }
16:44 * Xliff builds rakudo, again.
16:45 * sjn really likes the … method
16:45 sjn m: …;
16:45 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«Stub code executed␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/zcXsP_Bi8x line 1␤␤»
16:45 jdv79 nine: just give me a hint and i'll investigate (https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/issues/63)
16:45 yoleaux 06:21Z <nine> jdv79: do you happen to use Perl 5.24?
16:45 gregf_ nine: oh, so like, role PrefixBuilder { method buildPrefix(){ die "TBI"; }; } ; class DatePrefixBuilderImpl does PrefixBuilder { method buildPrefix(){} }; class StringPrefixBuilder does PrefixBuilder { method buildPrefix(){} }?
16:46 jdv79 yes.  yes i do.
16:46 sjn gregf_: you can actually use the three dots (...) or it's utf8-version …
16:46 sjn they even give a nice message
16:47 sjn "Stub code executed"
16:47 gregf_ m: (...).^name
16:47 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«Stub code executed␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/cgYxW8tfpu line 1␤␤»
16:48 gregf_ hmm, i was of the impression that ... was for ranges/lists
16:48 sjn it is
16:48 gregf_ ah - ok, that was what nine meant ;)
16:48 sjn but if you write it where a term is expected, you get the "not yet implemented" function
16:49 gregf_ rather than a die use ... #brill ;)
16:49 sjn yeah, it throws an exception too
16:49 gregf_ nine++ sjn++
16:50 Ven joined #perl6
16:50 * sjn wonders how to introspect that method
16:52 pmurias joined #perl6
16:56 flaviusb joined #perl6
16:59 TimToady a ... in a stub will also suppress any redefinition warnings
17:00 TimToady (on subs or classes)
17:09 molaf joined #perl6
17:09 jdv79 nine: i believe i encounter a similar error with 5.22.2
17:10 geekosaur m: &term:<...>.^name.say
17:10 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/78YI5W5d66␤Undeclared routine:␤    term:<...> used at line 1. Did you mean 'term:<now>'?␤␤»
17:10 geekosaur hm
17:13 sjn that was weird
17:14 nine jdv79: I asked because there's a github issue with similar error messages from a 5.24 user
17:15 nine jdv79: I guess, I should just perlbrew 5.24 and test here
17:15 b2gills Perl 5 copied part of the ... feature 「perl -MO=Deparse -e '...'」 => 「die 'Unimplemented';」
17:15 nine jdv79: it's just that on my desktop I don't even have a working rakudo currently as I'm still working on unbreaking perl6-j
17:16 firstdayonthejob joined #perl6
17:16 [Coke] if $*OS moved before christmas... nope
17:18 b2gills m: $^O
17:18 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/QBLJBPlGw6␤Unsupported use of $^O variable; in Perl 6 please use $?DISTRO.name or $*DISTRO.name␤at /tmp/QBLJBPlGw6:1␤------> 3$^O7⏏5<EOL>␤»
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17:21 sjn huh, I get a completely different warning
17:22 sjn m: say $*PERL.perl
17:22 camelia rakudo-moar 2bd421: OUTPUT«Perl.new(compiler => Compiler.new(id => "73CD636A1ABD7B788919C77C797DC​2E21F4C48B0.1465392618.02908", release => "", codename => "", name => "rakudo", auth => "The Perl Foundation", version => v2016.05.68.g.2.bd.4211, signature => Blob, desc => Str), name =…»
17:23 * sjn rebuilds moar
17:23 keix joined #perl6
17:23 ugexe 5.24 worked ok for Inline:Perl5 on my VM, and 5.22 had the same error on jdv79s VM when I had access
17:25 firstdayonthejob joined #perl6
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17:35 FROGGS o/
17:35 yoleaux 03:16Z <sortiz> FROGGS: Sure, test-driven is the better approach.
17:35 yoleaux 08:19Z <Xliff> FROGGS: If you need more help with XML::LibXML test cases, let me know!
17:35 lizmat FROGGS o/
17:36 FROGGS Xliff: sure, if you want to hack on it... let me know your github-ID and I'll welcome you :o)
17:36 FROGGS hi lizmat
17:36 lizmat FROGGS: long time no see   :-)
17:39 FROGGS aye :o)
17:39 Actualeyes left #perl6
17:39 FROGGS will attempt to join every evening again
17:39 lizmat ++FROGGS  :-)
17:41 rgrinberg joined #perl6
17:41 masak FROGGS: yes, please do!
17:42 rgrinberg joined #perl6
17:45 moritz \o
17:46 masak if I had a nickel for every "missing or wrong dependency"
17:46 masak yes, compiler, I know you're ===SORRY!===...
17:46 rgrinberg joined #perl6
17:47 TreyHarris joined #perl6
17:48 FROGGS masak: but at least I filed that issue just the other day :o)
17:49 rgrinberg joined #perl6
17:50 masak FROGGS++
17:51 llfourn joined #perl6
17:53 masak chalk this one up as a first: fix bug, write regression test for bug, see it pass, interactive rebase to put the commits in the reverse order, `edit` after the test, re-run to see red, rebase --continue, rebase -i again, squash the two commits together
17:53 masak :)
17:53 rgrinberg joined #perl6
17:53 masak man, I love Git
17:53 masak I do not love that precomp bug. fifth time I get it now in the past 15 minutes
17:54 masak apparently it bites you if your modules `use` each other :/
17:54 buharin joined #perl6
17:54 buharin hi
17:54 buharin :)
17:54 buharin mst, hello
17:54 perlpilot buharin: greetings.
17:55 mst buharin: yes?
17:55 [Coke] masak: you have circular deps?
17:55 buharin mst, don't ban me please
17:55 masak [Coke]: heavens, no
17:55 mst buharin: you had a 24h temporary quiet
17:55 masak ...that's not what I meant
17:55 mst buharin: I told you it was only 24h
17:55 mst buharin: I lifted it after 24h
17:55 buharin ok
17:55 mst buharin: what are you even talking about?
17:55 buharin thnks
17:55 masak I meant "if you have modules which use other modules which you have"
17:55 perlpilot buharin: Is that why you greet mst specifically each time you join here?
17:55 buharin yes
17:56 mst well, stop it
17:56 rgrinberg joined #perl6
17:56 [Coke] If you don't wish to be tempbanned, don't act in a way which requires it
17:57 [Coke] … crud, I have a meeting in 3m.
17:58 timeless joined #perl6
17:59 mst buharin: look. if I tempban you, once the tempban is up, it's done.
17:59 mst buharin: just don't do the same thing again, and we're fine
17:59 buharin ok, I am sorry
17:59 buharin I am good
17:59 mst buharin: making a big deal of it is not necessary and bloody annoying
17:59 mst right. so let's move on.
18:00 timeless hi, do people take feedback on  https://doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutshell here?
18:00 donaldh joined #perl6
18:00 perlpilot timeless: the best feedback comes in the form of a pull request  :)
18:00 timeless the syntax highlighting on this line is *odd*:   return scalar(<H>), scalar(<H>);
18:00 timeless perlpilot: that's great. sometimes i'll do them, sometimes i won't
18:01 timeless today i'm offering bug reporting as opposed to fixes, since i don't know the language
18:01 perlpilot timeless: yeah, the highlighting there is weird.
18:01 timeless also here: my $href = { A => 98, Q => 99 }; # Both Perl 5&6 [*See Note*]
18:01 timeless i don't understand the coloring in https://doc.perl6.org/langu​age/5to6-nutshell#Change_=~_and_!~_to_~~_and_!~~_.
18:02 timeless also, sometimes `See S0x/....` is a link, as in `See S05/Substitution.`
18:02 timotimo the highlighter is derping around, i'd guess
18:02 timeless but often, it isn't, as in `See S32/Containers`
18:03 timeless (i suppose the highlighter could want a trailing period, but i haven't finished reading, so i haven't built a mental model)
18:06 timeless In Perl 6 regexen, | does LTM, which decides which alternation wins an ambiguous match based off of a set of rules, rather than about which was written first.
18:06 timeless the `about` doesn't make sense there
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18:06 timeless > no warnings is currently NYI, but putting things in a quietly {} block will silence.
18:06 * timeless has no clue what NYI means
18:06 lizmat Not Yet Implemented
18:06 lizmat S99:NYI
18:06 synopsebot6 Link: http://design.perl6.org/S99.html#NYI
18:07 timeless would it hurt for that to be linkified?
18:08 rgrinberg left #perl6
18:11 Xliff FROGGS: Here's my github profile -- https://github.com/Xliff
18:11 * timeless wonders why everything in this page has a `link to top of documetn`
18:11 timeless surely web browsers let users do that...
18:11 Xliff So I think my github-id is the same as my IRC nick.
18:12 Xliff timeless: Some IRC clients do it for you....
18:12 * Xliff hides.
18:12 timeless Xliff: eh?
18:12 timeless Xliff: load https://doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutshell#-s
18:12 Xliff You said something about linkifying.
18:12 timeless hover over `-s`
18:12 timeless why would you want clicking on `-s` to take you to https://doc.perl6.org/lang​uage/5to6-nutshell#___top
18:13 Xliff Ooh! I see now.
18:13 timeless https://doc.perl6.org/langu​age/5to6-nutshell#Operators
18:13 Xliff But where else should it take you?
18:13 timeless scroll up one line
18:13 timeless "See S32/Containers"
18:13 timeless that should be a link, but no irc client will make it one...
18:14 nemo timeless: well actually my MATE terminal included -s in the link ☺
18:14 timeless Xliff: having a larger anchor for me to click, or, having the anchor available consistently to the left of the topic would be nice -- for sharing
18:14 Xliff Would need to add that format to the bots.
18:14 nemo timeless: it didn't do so well with the link that ended in a . though
18:15 Xliff S32:Containers
18:15 synopsebot6 Link: http://design.perl6.org/S32.html#Containers
18:15 Xliff ^^ or that
18:15 nemo https://doc.perl6.org/langu​age/5to6-nutshell#Change_=~_and_!~_to_~~_and_!~~_.  ← this link
18:15 Xliff Unfortunately, that link doesn't exist
18:15 timeless Xliff: ok, nice bot
18:15 timeless https://doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutshell#-s
18:16 timeless is it really the convention to mix file content w/ shell commands w/ shell output?
18:16 geekosaur timeless, that's a common (but not universal) convention: in the table of contents a link takes you to the section, and the corresponding link in the section takes you back to the table of contents
18:16 geekosaur some wikis do this automatically as well (trac, at least)
18:16 timeless geekosaur: i personally hate trac, but i'm not going to get into that
18:17 Xliff .tell FROGGS  Here's my github profile -- https://github.com/Xliff
18:17 yoleaux Xliff: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
18:17 timeless if you can accept the pieces that can be fixed and overlook places where i'm whining, i'd appreciate it :)
18:17 timeless > Removed. See S19.
18:17 timeless missing link
18:17 timeless S19
18:17 timeless synopsebot6: S19
18:17 timeless ...
18:18 Xliff S19:top
18:18 synopsebot6 Link: http://design.perl6.org/S19.html#top
18:18 sherwool joined #perl6
18:18 Xliff Need the :
18:18 timeless S19:
18:18 timeless S19:_
18:18 synopsebot6 Link: http://design.perl6.org/S19.html#_
18:18 timeless um, ok...
18:18 timeless anyway, that doesn't tell me what it is, i'd have to click the link
18:18 tomboy64 joined #perl6
18:19 Xliff Someone would have to update synopsebot6 with the titles.
18:19 geekosaur spitting possibly large chunks of text into irc is not generally a good plan...
18:19 FROGGS Xliff: done
18:19 yoleaux 18:17Z <Xliff> FROGGS: Here's my github profile -- https://github.com/Xliff
18:19 Xliff FROGGS, Cool!
18:20 timeless geekosaur: titles shouldn't be long =b
18:20 FROGGS Xliff: I hope you get the idea of how the code is structured
18:20 geekosaur one would hope. but give someone something to abuse and someone will abuse it :(
18:20 Xliff geekosaur, just a title for the associated S article and the link.
18:21 Xliff Limited abuse potential.
18:21 Xliff FROGGS: OK. Got a link for the repo?
18:22 FROGGS Xliff: https://github.com/FROGGS/p6-XML-LibXML
18:24 timeless > (Please note that not having the module statement isn't consistent with Synopsis 11, however it works.)
18:24 timeless that should have a link
18:26 tbrowder joined #perl6
18:26 Xliff FROGGS: Cool! I'll try to work on some of these tonight.
18:27 Urchin left #perl6
18:29 timeless https://doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutshell#-s
18:29 timeless Switch parsing is now done by the parameter list of the MAIN subroutine.
18:29 timeless https://doc.perl6.org/languag​e/5to6-nutshell#Getopt::Long
18:29 timeless Switch parsing is now done by the parameter list of the MAIN subroutine.
18:29 timeless would it make sense to have `-s` link to the other thing?
18:30 telex joined #perl6
18:31 * timeless reaches the end of the document
18:32 nemo timeless: and are now a perl6 expert
18:32 * timeless goes back to um.. something else
18:33 timeless (C apparently)
18:33 nemo timeless: ah. just in time, since you're doing perl5 → perl6  time to go C → Rust ☺
18:33 timeless no thanks
18:34 timeless this isn't my project
18:34 timeless (it's tmux)
18:34 nemo ah
18:34 donaldh joined #perl6
18:35 labster joined #perl6
18:36 FROGGS Xliff++
18:40 FROGGS damn
18:40 FROGGS I believe I removed my login from the sudoers group -.-
18:44 tbrowder joined #perl6
18:44 tbrowder hi, perl people
18:46 tbrowder anyone here going to YAPC::NA::2016 besides lizmat, DrForr, timtoady, damian, and util (and moi)?
18:46 noninc left #perl6
18:46 FROGGS joined #perl6
18:47 Xliff Where in NA will the YAPC be?
18:47 timeless perlpilot: anyway, were my notes helpful?
18:48 tbrowder Orlando, Florida, home of Disney World and such
18:48 wamba joined #perl6
18:50 tbrowder I hope lizmat can spare some time to talk about debugging P6 and working with the grammar
18:50 lizmat debugging yes, working with grammars is definitely not my forte
18:51 tbrowder debugging is good!
18:51 perlpilot tbrowder: I'll be at YAPC::NA
18:52 tbrowder good!
18:53 tbrowder it helps to put a face to irc, and maybe chat over a beverage of choice
18:54 perlpilot timeless: maybe stick them in an issue on github?  I don't have time right now to do anything about them.
18:54 huggable joined #perl6
18:54 * timeless regrets not having claimed `timeless` on github :/
18:54 hankache joined #perl6
18:56 timeless perlpilot: is the pod really the original source? it feels like it might not be...
18:56 perlpilot tbrowder: you can see a 10 year old picture of me on my github profile if you want to put a face to a nick.   I've lost some hair since then, but it's all under the hat in that picture anyway.  I basically look the same though  :)
18:57 hankache good evening #perl6
18:57 lizmat hankache o/
18:57 lizmat hankache: so what would I need to create a Dutch version of perl6intro ?
18:57 lizmat *do
18:57 hankache hiya lizmat
18:58 hankache you need to know the syntax (asciidoc).
18:58 win32 joined #perl6
18:58 win32 Hi here =D
18:58 perlpilot timeless: aye, it is.  (at least last time I looked, the html was being built from the pod.  someone could have changed it when I wasn't paying attentiong :-)
18:59 lizmat hankache: but that would be pretty clear from the source, no?
18:59 perlpilot s/ong/on/
18:59 hankache lizmat yes
18:59 hankache hello win32
18:59 perlpilot win32: greetings
18:59 hankache lizmat https://github.com/hankache/perl6intro
18:59 lizmat hankache: I was more thinking along: clone the english version, and then what ?
18:59 win32 hankache>  , perlpilot thnx =D
18:59 perlpilot oops, I'm late for a meeting
18:59 win32 what upz .
18:59 timeless perlpilot: ok, and presumably the steps for making the html are easy? (and don't require perl6)?
18:59 timeless if so, i might send a pr for /something/
19:00 literal enum die_faces ("⚀".."⚅"); say die_faces.enums
19:00 literal m: enum die_faces ("⚀".."⚅"); say die_faces.enums
19:00 win32 who have for spend a short time for me =D
19:00 camelia rakudo-moar 30b33e: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/E2AKgn89kz:␤Useless use of ".." in expression "\"⚀\"..\"⚅\"" in sink context (line 1)␤Map.new(("⚀" => 0,"⚁" => 1,"⚂" => 2,"⚃" => 3,"⚄" => 4,"⚅" => 5))␤»
19:00 lizmat hankache: ah, RTFM  :-)
19:00 lizmat hankache: will do!
19:00 literal how can I do this without the warning?
19:00 hankache lizmat create a new file nl.perl6intro.adoc
19:00 lizmat ack, gotcha
19:01 lizmat hankache: should I do a PR or do you want to give me a commit bit?
19:01 hankache lizmat: i'll give you commit
19:01 TimToady ooh, a useless use of useless use bug :)
19:02 hankache hiya TimToady
19:02 win32 i wanna to get a code read a file Answer questions , questions its format > NY |New york end msg to # channel.
19:02 win32 who can help me! thanks u all
19:02 lizmat hankache: cool
19:04 TimToady m: constant tmp = "⚀".."⚅"; enum die_faces (tmp.list); say die_faces.enums   # one workaround
19:04 camelia rakudo-moar 30b33e: OUTPUT«Map.new(("⚀" => 0,"⚁" => 1,"⚂" => 2,"⚃" => 3,"⚄" => 4,"⚅" => 5))␤»
19:05 literal difference being that now they're numbered 0 to 5 :)
19:05 timeless ok, stupid question...
19:05 literal oh wait, so was my solution
19:05 hankache lizmat: I added you as collaborator.
19:05 timeless are the t/*.t files in perl6/doc supposd to pass?
19:05 lizmat hankache++
19:05 timeless s/supposd/supposed/ :(
19:07 FROGGS joined #perl6
19:08 TEttinger joined #perl6
19:08 timeless also, anyone here familiar w/ the trig stuff?
19:08 * timeless is reading doc/Type/Cool.pod and is rather puzzled
19:08 * timeless hasn't really played w/ trig in nearly 2 decades ...
19:09 * timeless decides it's just wrong and moves on
19:10 masak heh, if you read Cool.pod and your reaction was "trig", then maybe the focus of that document is a bit skewed... :)
19:11 TimToady literal: testing a fix for the bogus warning
19:11 masak timeless: I'm familiar with the trig stuff. heck, you could probably throw me a cosecant and I'd know what to do with it ;)
19:11 literal TimToady: nice
19:11 timeless masak: here's the text from the pod. https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/9sDnbaqM/
19:11 timeless you mentioned `cosecant` which is something i recognize
19:12 timeless am i right to believe that the pod just doesn't know how to spell cosecant?
19:12 yqt joined #perl6
19:12 masak timeless: yes, you are
19:13 timeless awesome! thanks
19:13 * timeless will arrange for a pr eventually
19:13 timeless sorry, i was worried my trig knowledge was rotting ...
19:15 FROGGS joined #perl6
19:15 timeless masak: funnier one
19:15 timeless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tr​igonometric_functions#Etymology
19:15 timeless is `cotangens ` there intentional?
19:16 lizmat sounds like a Dutchism
19:16 * timeless goes to read OED
19:16 timeless interesting, apparently it was once spelled that way in https://hal.inria.fr/inria-00543938/document
19:17 timeless i think this is perhaps old-french
19:17 masak it'd be "cotangens" in Swedish too
19:17 timeless Descriptio Canonis.
19:18 masak oddly enough, that didn't even cross my mind as I read it in the paste and crossed it off as being Wrong in English :)
19:18 * timeless shrugs
19:18 timeless I didn't specialize in romance languages
19:18 timeless for all i know this is actually Latin
19:19 * timeless isn't used to seeing æ
19:19 timeless anyway, i'm going to suggest enforcing the English spelling, since the document is in English and it references the English wikipedia which almost* exclusively uses the English spelling...
19:21 Ven joined #perl6
19:21 [Coke] timeless: yes, pleas.
19:21 [Coke] *e
19:22 timeless btw, do you prefer en-us or en-gb?
19:22 timeless for a large project, i'm tempted not to enforce since the last thing i need are complaints over minor things
19:22 [Coke] in general, we lean towards -us
19:22 timeless but i can enforce
19:22 [Coke] but I don't think we'd mind either.
19:22 mst *I* prefer en_GB. However, en_US is probably the correct answer.
19:22 mst having spent a year or so using QBASIC during the day and BBC BASIC at night
19:23 mst I am already quite sufficiently traumatised by varying spellings of COLOUR
19:23 timeless heh
19:24 win32 i wanna to get a code read a file Answer questions , questions its format > NY |New york end msg to # channel. ^_^
19:24 hankache What do you mean en_us? There's only one English and that is her Majesty's ;)
19:24 timeless hankache: having read en-in amongst others, i must disagree
19:25 timeless and i blame her Majesty's relatives for that
19:25 timeless =b
19:25 b2gills Just imagine that the en in en_us stands for something other than the word english
19:25 masak yes, en_US is the correct answer. it's always the correct answer, unless your shop is so overwhelmingly British-speaking that it'd be silly to do otherwise *and* you don't expect contributions/patches from the open-source world.
19:25 hankache :p
19:26 huf_ there are more americans. they're easier to hit. i mean, the target is easier to hit.
19:26 huf_ i mean... oh dear
19:26 mst huf_: except when you give americans weapons they usually manage to shoot the nearest british soldier instead
19:26 * b2gills .oO( many of them are overweight )
19:26 hankache huf_ haha
19:27 huf_ mst: cos you eejits keep going near them
19:27 mst how to avoid being hit by the US army: (1) stay away from the british forces (2) hide in a urinal
19:27 timeless fwiw, the doc's spelling error ratio is actually quite tolerable
19:27 * timeless is in the h's, whereas one project hit 200
19:27 huf_ mst: or really, just 1) adopt rincewind tactics
19:30 hankache is it bad if you mix both en_us and en_gb in your writing? English being my 3rd language
19:30 timeless hankache: yes
19:30 timeless for various reasons
19:30 timeless 1. it means you don't know how to use a spell checker
19:30 timeless (i.e. it just makes you look bad)
19:31 timeless 2. it causes cognitive dissonance for anyone reading it
19:31 mst c. it brutalises people and makes them turn a funny color
19:31 timeless basically, your word processor and browser both have spell checkers, so there's very little excuse not to let one or the other help you out
19:31 * timeless is using irccloud, so the browser is the spell checker here
19:31 huf_ i dont think i'd notice it :)
19:31 mst I turn all spell checkers off
19:32 mst and my word processor is ex-vi, which doesn't really have one
19:33 timeless mst: for this exercise, my primary spell checker is /usr/share/dict/words
19:33 hankache timeless this is not a spell checker issue. For example I like to write color instead of colour for a reason that i ignore. It feels more natural. But for other words it may be the opposite
19:33 labster joined #perl6
19:33 timeless the secondary is my brain, the the tertiary is google-search-suggest
19:33 mst I agree with proof reading
19:34 mst I agree with spelling tests
19:34 mst I do not agree with the 'very little excuse not to use a spell checker while writing' part
19:34 timeless ah, fair enough
19:34 timeless as long as what you publish has been checked, i don't care if you check-as-you-go or check-before-you-post
19:34 timeless the point is that you have the ability to get-it-checked for minimal cost
19:35 mst but generally I proofread and then publish
19:35 donaldh joined #perl6
19:35 huf_ hankache: yeah, i have mixed spellings too :)
19:35 mst since I'm as worried about 'wrong valid word' problems as speling erors
19:35 huf_ a base of american with weird spots of uk
19:35 hankache huf_ exactly
19:37 timeless doc/Language/quoting.pod:=head2 X<Heredocs: :to|qoute,heredocs :to>
19:37 timeless please say that `qoute` should just be `quote` and that i'm not missing some perl6 knowledge...
19:38 grondilu joined #perl6
19:39 [Coke] almost certainly quote
19:40 [Coke] timeless: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/​search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&amp;q=qoute
19:40 timeless thx
19:40 mst hankache: if that's for IRC or for your blog, I, personally, give no fucks
19:40 [Coke] (so, not some weird hidden thing)
19:40 mst thx OTOH is a sign of illiteracy in all languages in my head
19:41 timeless [Coke]: shortcircuits -- would you write that as one word or two?
19:41 timeless (and would you accept the alternate)
19:41 mst (pet hate)
19:41 mst hankache: if it's for an OSS project, whatever spelling they're already using is preferred
19:41 mst of course, I sometimes write method names in en_US and docs in en_UK
19:42 timeless mst: tmux had stuff like that
19:42 timeless it's a minor pita when trying to write fixes
19:43 timeless but, i understand it
19:43 timeless and don't object to it in general
19:43 timeless (it just makes the task i'm doing now slower)
19:44 mst timeless: if you find a project of mine like that, a patch to USify all the spelling with a test to make sure I don't backslide wouldn't upset me, but I doubt I'd be bothered doing so myself
19:44 timeless :-)
19:45 timeless doc/Language/glossary.pod:=head2 Thnunk
19:45 timeless um.... i know about thunks, ... but thnunks?
19:45 * timeless decides it's just a typo
19:46 * mst would think so, yes
19:46 masak it's like thunks, but with nunchucks
19:47 japhb Those would make quite a thunk when they hit you, I would think ...
19:48 timeless doc/Language/testing.pod:# tests requiring functional wombling
19:48 timeless is wombling a technical term? (it wasn't in the glossary, and i don't know it)
19:48 TimToady fix pushed for literal++
19:48 timeless (note: i don't expect to change it, it's just odd)
19:50 timeless only 23 changes (not counting checking for en-gb)
19:50 timeless not bad
19:51 hankache m: { our $var = 'Text'; say $var.WHERE; }; { our $var = 123; say $var.WHERE; }; say ::('$var').WHERE;
19:51 camelia rakudo-moar 965ca6: OUTPUT«139708347882696␤13970​8348067648␤139708348067648␤»
19:51 hankache should this be allowed? ^^
19:54 stmuk_ wombling probably means tidying
19:56 brrt joined #perl6
19:57 masak hankache: yes. that's correct.
19:57 masak m: { our $var = "OH HAI" }; { our $var; say $var }
19:57 camelia rakudo-moar 965ca6: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
19:58 timeless masak: hrm, `rubbish` is en-gb
19:58 masak the value gets shared through the underlying package scope, but it's two distinct variables.
19:58 timeless stmuk_: i'm trying to read doc/Language/testing.pod and Womble+Wombling are used a lot
19:58 timeless but i can't figure out what it is
19:59 timeless because of the rubbish, i'm somewhat confident that womble is also en-gb
19:59 timeless class GreatUncleBulgaria is Womble {}
20:00 hankache masak thanks
20:00 mst o/ Underground, overground, wombling free / The Wombles of Wimbledon Common are we o/
20:00 timeless mst: see, that's *definitely* not in my corpus
20:01 timeless class Tobermory is Womble does Invent {}
20:01 mst timeless: see enwp.org/Wombles
20:01 timeless is Tobermory also en-gb?
20:01 mst that's a name of a character
20:01 mst https://en.wikipedia.org/wik​i/The_Wombles#Known_Wombles
20:02 timeless mst: thx
20:02 buharin joined #perl6
20:02 mst timeless: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
20:02 * timeless didn't know about enwp.org either, neat
20:02 b2gills hankache: The GC system uses a copying GC for the nursery so short lived objects tend to move around a fair bit even in the same scope
20:03 timeless > Although Wombles supposedly live in every country in the world, Beresford's stories are concerned with the lives of the inhabitants of the burrow on Wimbledon Common in London, England.
20:03 * mst can live with 'ty', or the en_UK 'ta', but please don't use 'thx' at me, that particular not-even-an-abbreviation is like fingernails down a blackboard to me :P
20:03 timeless mst: sorry
20:03 timeless i rarely abbreviate, that's one of my few exceptions, but i can avoid it :)
20:03 mst it's ok, I know it's weird, but AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
20:03 timeless alias as: `:-)`
20:03 DrForr . o ( 1138? )
20:03 timeless 😃
20:04 timeless ... yeah, they definitely didn't seem to travel the world
20:04 mst timeless: the think that annoys me is it isn't even a proper abbreviation due to the x
20:04 timeless mst: interesting
20:04 mst but, yeah, I'm not claiming I'm entirely rational about this
20:04 timeless oddly, i'm not a big fan of it either
20:04 timeless i wonder when my brain internalized it
20:04 mst 'ty' doesn't bug me, 'tks' doesn't bug me, 'ta' doesn't bug me
20:04 timeless `interned`
20:05 mst but 'thx' makes me imagine a 12 year old typing on a nokia candybar
20:05 timeless `ty` and `tks` bug me
20:05 timeless `ta` i could live w/
20:05 mst I'm not *fond* of 'ty' or 'tks' but I don't actively hate them like 'thx'
20:05 hankache b2gills thanks
20:05 timeless mst: did Sesame Street make it across the pond?
20:05 mst yes
20:06 mst there's a reason Nicholas Clark announced RC releases when he was pumpking with 'Vun. Ha! Ha! Ha!' etc.
20:06 timeless would it be a reasonable replacement for the Wombles in the .pod?
20:06 * timeless doesn't know `nicholas clark` or `pumpking`
20:06 * timeless also hasn't followed perl6
20:06 mst pumpking is the release manager for perl5
20:06 mst and general leader of p5p
20:07 timeless ah
20:07 cdg joined #perl6
20:07 timeless i think i mostly used p5.2..5.6 occasionally 5.8 (?)
20:07 b2gills hankache: If you want more information https://www.infoq.com/presentatio​ns/terminology-garbage-collector / http://jnthn.net/papers/201​3-bs-secret-life-of-gc.pdf
20:07 mst I started off on 5.005_03
20:08 timeless yeah 5.005_* feels very familiar
20:08 mst also, I feel like the wombles have a certain whimsicality that's very in keeping with the perl6 ethos
20:08 timeless well
20:08 timeless if you want them to stick around, then i think they need to be added to the glossary
20:08 b2gills I didn't even hear about Perl until 5.6 ( I was on DOS and Windows )
20:09 cdg joined #perl6
20:09 mst timeless: I would suggest a link to the wikipedia page?
20:09 timeless mst: ok, but straight into the pod that's using them?
20:09 mst I, personally, don't really see a problem with that, but would not argue if other people felt that was insufficient
20:10 literal is there a method or idiom to do this in a single expression? my %counts; %counts{$_}++ for @things;
20:10 b2gills @things.Bag
20:10 masak %counts{@things}>>++;
20:10 masak what b2gills said :)
20:10 lizmat b2gills++
20:11 literal oh right, forgot about bags
20:11 mst but I do think "preserving whimsicality" is something we should value
20:11 masak I often forget about bags
20:11 lizmat bag @things
20:11 * masak .oO( I need you to... take care of @things, see? capishe? )
20:11 lizmat literal: also note that the keys in a bag are not stringifications, but the actual objects
20:11 literal yeah
20:12 DrForr bag @your-face; # Not that anyone here remotely qualifies, save myself )
20:12 DrForr s/.$/:)/
20:13 * timeless frowns
20:14 timeless ok, so um... apparently i need perl6 in order to make the docs
20:14 mst rakudobrew to the rescue?
20:16 * Xliff ♥ rakudobrew
20:17 timeless Xliff: https://design.perl6.org/S19.h​tml#Removed_Syntactic_Features
20:18 timeless there's no way for me to get the anchor for that section on that page *grrr*
20:19 girafe joined #perl6
20:21 Xliff S19:Removed Syntactic Features
20:21 synopsebot6 Link: http://design.perl6.org/S19.ht​ml#Removed_Syntactic_Features
20:22 * Xliff pokes timeless -- "Werked fer meee!"
20:22 Xliff <mst> I am already quite sufficiently traumatised by varying spellings of COLOUR
20:22 timeless Xliff: load the link, is there an anchor you can hover over to get the link for that section?
20:22 * timeless doesn't see one
20:22 * Xliff hands mst a pint of his favourite beer.
20:23 Xliff timeless: The link synopsebot6 just posted doesn't work for you?
20:23 timeless wrong problem
20:23 timeless say i'm on that page and want to get a link to a subsection w/o going to the toc
20:25 Xliff ooooooo
20:25 * Xliff finally understands.
20:25 timeless :-)
20:25 Xliff You'd be SOL. But why would you not use the TOC?
20:26 timeless because i'm usually scrolling through a document, finding a problem and wanting to point people to it
20:26 timeless having to jump to the top, try to figure out what section it is...
20:26 timeless => very painful
20:26 Xliff Yeah. The layout of those pages would need to be slightly changed to fix that problem.
20:26 timeless (not necessarily a problem, i could be trying to point to a solution)
20:27 timeless anyway, i'm willing to try to fix the 5to6 page, but i really want someone else to fix the design pages to at least be no more annoying than the 5to6 page
20:29 Xliff I don't know of a good solution. Leave the section headers as they are but have a "→" link placed unobtrusively nearby that is a link to the current section?
20:29 Xliff But then... how do you make that intuitive?
20:30 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
20:33 timeless Xliff: in the main thing if you hover over a section it gets an :after() thing
20:33 b2gills timeless: if you right click => inspect on Chrome you can find out the name of a link
20:33 timeless b2gills: i'm effectively a retired browser develoepr
20:34 timeless s/epr/per/
20:34 timeless i could do lots of things. i shouldn't have to.
20:34 timeless and these two sites should behave similarly, that one makes it easy to get anchors and the other doesn't is disappointing
20:34 timeless and please don't ask me to do the work, i've just sent 3prs which is well over my average quota
20:37 mst oh, yeah, that's been a thing with POD rendering forever and a day
20:38 * mst does ctrl-click, ctrl-tab, right click ToC entry and copy, ctrl-W without thinking now
20:38 mst but the fact that doesn't annoy me is blatantly stockholm syndrome
20:38 timeless mst: at this point, what bothers me is consistency, there's clearly a better engine being used for doc.perl6.org than design.perl6.org
20:39 * timeless appreciates that mst is aware he's suffering from stockholm syndrome :)
20:39 mst I suspect that design.perl6.org is using one of the common POD -> HTML renderers on CPAN for perl5
20:40 mst I'm also now wondering why the fsck POD renderers don't do a sensible thing with the headers and make them links-to-self
20:40 timeless yay!
20:41 timeless thanks for feeling my pain
20:43 mst huh
20:43 mst https://metacpan.org/pod/Safe::Isa#SYNOPSIS
20:43 mst timeless: so, if you mouse over the word SYNOPSIS you can see a little link thing
20:43 mst I wonder if one could port that to design.
20:43 stmuk_ the design pages aren't currently maintained in terms of technical content so I don't think tidying up the web design is worth it
20:44 timeless mst: https://doc.perl6.org/langua​ge/5to6-nutshell#Whitespace
20:44 timeless if you hover over a header there, you get a :after() section mark
20:44 timeless §
20:44 mst timeless: aha
20:44 timeless personally, the metacpan.org :before() is better
20:44 mst timeless: well, at least we've found you half a solution
20:44 timeless because it's where I expect it to be!
20:44 mst in that now you can be less annoyed and not have to go up to the ToC ;)
20:45 timeless anyway, i don't care if you copy the doc version or the metacpan version
20:45 mst oh, I see, that's doc. and not design. sorry
20:45 mst gah
20:45 timeless but please don't leave design as is :)
20:46 timeless stmuk_: so... the problem is that doc. links to design.
20:46 timeless if you make design. not reachable from the web (doc. + google) then i wouldn't care
20:46 timeless but, ...
20:49 mst timeless: if you remind me another day, I will try and see if it's a ten minute fix
20:50 mst if you don't remind me, I will try and remember to look another day anyway but no guarantees
20:50 timeless mst: ok
20:50 timeless we'll see, i'm fairly flighty, but i should be able to return at least once
20:50 timeless probably when someone accepts a pr or 2
20:58 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 23 commits to doc by stmuk
20:59 zakharyas joined #perl6
21:01 rurban joined #perl6
21:02 rurban_ joined #perl6
21:02 stmuk_ I've merged the spelling fixes .. less sure about the rest
21:02 stmuk_ maybe "wombling" should go in the glossary
21:03 stmuk_ glossary being the special case maintained bit of design. :)
21:05 * timeless goes to add NYI to the glossary
21:06 literal what should I do if I want rotor() but with overlapping combinations? so (a b c d) => (a b), (b c), (c d)
21:08 timeless err
21:08 timeless what the heck?
21:09 timeless someone told me NYI was in the design docs
21:09 timeless but... i don't see it
21:09 retupmoca m: say ('a'..'d').rotor(2 => -1).perl;
21:09 camelia rakudo-moar 072a6c: OUTPUT«(("a", "b"), ("b", "c"), ("c", "d")).Seq␤»
21:09 AlexDaniel OMG, can we squish such commits next time?
21:09 literal retupmoca: oh, I should have read the rotor() docs better
21:10 timeless AlexDaniel: fwiw, the reason i don't squish myself is to let people exclude things, but i don't mind if they squish my commits when pulling them in
21:10 AlexDaniel timeless: that totally makes sense, I don't mind that at all
21:10 AlexDaniel but why was it merged as is… come on, 22 commits!
21:11 timeless 22 is nothing :)
21:11 timeless https://github.com/pwsafe/pwsafe/pull/106
21:11 timeless try that :)
21:12 * timeless tries to figure out the glossary
21:12 timeless there are things in the glossary with no content...
21:12 timeless https://doc.perl6.org/language/glossary#Cool
21:12 timeless https://doc.perl6.org/language/glossary#Enum
21:13 AlexDaniel timeless: the idea is that somebody is going to write the content for these…
21:13 AlexDaniel or something
21:13 timeless ...
21:14 [Coke] placeholders. "yes, we realize this is a confusing term"
21:14 timeless i do a couple of gimmes, but, if you're in that deep, i'd be open to contracting to fix the rest
21:14 AlexDaniel timeless: well, that's how it always been. Somebody adds an entry to S99, somebody else writes the definition
21:14 [Coke] I would argue that if you can search for the thing in docs.perl6.org, then you can remove the placeholder in S99
21:15 Hotkeys Is there enum documentation hidden somewhere
21:15 AlexDaniel yeah, nuke S99
21:15 Hotkeys Or will I have to look at the specs
21:15 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: yeah. It is hidden here: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/87
21:16 Hotkeys Ah I see
21:16 AlexDaniel ah, looks like gfldex++ fixed it
21:17 timeless AlexDaniel: do you want me to link to the type system entry?
21:17 timeless i can do that i suppose
21:18 AlexDaniel timeless: I think that it is better than an empty entry :)
21:18 timeless although, tbh, i'd expect the glossary to have at least a one sentence entry beyond linking to the typesystem thing
21:18 AlexDaniel something is better than nothing
21:18 timeless ok, lemme see
21:19 * timeless wonders how the docs link to other files...
21:20 AlexDaniel yay for using a spell checker on the whole thing! timeless++
21:20 timeless 😃
21:20 AlexDaniel Tooolbar! :)
21:20 AlexDaniel Hilites :D
21:20 timeless AlexDaniel: fwiw, the error count for per6 doc was really low, so your contributors are pretty good
21:21 timeless (or you just are missing too much content)
21:21 timeless pwsafe was pretty bad
21:21 AlexDaniel my contributions huh?
21:22 timeless "your contributors" = everyone contributing to perl6 doc
21:22 timeless not "your contributions" :)
21:22 AlexDaniel :)
21:22 * timeless is a very careful wordsmith
21:22 AlexDaniel “our” contributions then!
21:24 AlexDaniel miminize :)
21:25 donaldh joined #perl6
21:25 * timeless is it ok for me to copy stuff over from design?
21:26 timeless https://design.perl6.org/S99.html#container
21:26 _4d47 joined #perl6
21:26 timeless of course, i can't copy over container
21:28 AlexDaniel timeless: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1a​acfb0716838302fcc33275182156fbdb01d36e
21:28 AlexDaniel timeless: that's how it was created
21:28 timeless AlexDaniel: ok
21:29 timeless hrm
21:29 timeless is the pod thing smart enough to handle L<#twigil> v. =head1 Twigil ?
21:32 AlexDaniel timeless: if it is on the same page, then yeah. It has to be #Twigil though
21:33 timeless it's #twigil (lowercase)
21:33 timeless AlexDaniel: should i just try to pull up the current pod for s99 and copy over the missing items?
21:33 timeless it seems silly for me to manually try to recreate them
21:33 timeless i mean, i can be selective about whether or not to pull them over
21:34 timeless but, what you have now is ... unfortunate
21:34 lizmat timeless: copying *to* or *from* S99 ?
21:34 AlexDaniel timeless: right, and it doesn't work
21:34 timeless from
21:34 lizmat well, I did some work in that area a while ago
21:34 timeless AlexDaniel: ok... i can fix that one
21:34 lizmat wouldn't mind seeing S99 go completely
21:34 AlexDaniel timeless: so yeah, change it to #Twigil. Also see this one: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/561
21:34 timeless (and getting a tool to identify similar ones shouldn't be hard)
21:36 Juerd joined #perl6
21:36 timeless lizmat: so, lemme find the source for s99
21:36 lizmat it lives in specs
21:36 timeless i think merging s99 over ito doc/glossary seems reasonable
21:36 lizmat yeah, that was the plan
21:36 timeless thx
21:36 lizmat timeless++
21:37 timeless (py)[timeless@gcc2-power8 perl6]$ hg clone git://github.com/perl6/specs
21:37 * timeless waits
21:39 spider-mario joined #perl6
21:40 AlexDaniel hg huh!
21:40 timeless my toolchain/prefs are hg :)
21:40 timeless the docs are better :-)
21:41 tadzik computer, messages
21:41 yoleaux 15:06Z <azawawi> tadzik: Please take a look at https://github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/316
21:41 tadzik hrm
21:42 timeless perl -ne 'next unless /=head|L<#.*>/; if (/=head/) {s/(=head\d+) (.*)/$2 $1/; print;next}; print "$1\n" for /L<(#[^>]*)>/' doc/Language/glossary.pod|sort|less
21:42 raiph joined #perl6
21:42 timeless AlexDaniel: that's what i'll use to find the mismatches/missings
21:42 AlexDaniel timeless: run it over all files
21:43 timeless ok, but for now, glossary, i want to take things baby-steps
21:45 AlexDaniel timeless: did I already mention that I love you?
21:45 lizmat timeless++
21:45 lizmat good night, #perl6!
21:45 timeless good night lizmat
21:45 timeless oh brother
21:45 timeless -=head Adverbial Pair
21:45 timeless +=head adverbial pair
21:46 timeless well, that explains why the links on doc/glossary were bad
21:46 timeless someone got cute and capitalized things in the glossary at some point
21:47 * lizmat runs for cover
21:47 timeless lizmat: if the build system didn't have a link checker, it isn't entirely your fault
21:47 timeless tooling should have saved you
21:48 AlexDaniel timeless: well yeah, that's why #561 exists. But it does not check for links to the same page, as far as I can see
21:49 AlexDaniel timeless: currently the problem is that we have a bunch of broken HTML, so the output of checklink is not as useful
21:49 AlexDaniel timeless: but once that is solved it will be much easier to work on broken links :)
21:51 * timeless nodes
21:51 * timeless nods
21:51 mr-foobar joined #perl6
21:51 timeless ok, i think i'm going to do this differently
21:51 timeless i suppose i should look for a pod parser, but i don't think i will
21:51 AlexDaniel timeless: also, if you want to prevent such problems you can add a test
21:51 timeless AlexDaniel: yeah, but i don't speak any particular .t languages
21:52 * timeless hasn't spoken perl .t in >5 years
21:52 dj_goku timeless: so you have to learn then. :D
21:53 AlexDaniel dj_goku: shh, better bring the candies. That guy is going to fix our docs
21:53 AlexDaniel :)
21:54 dj_goku I have been idling for ages sadly. sweet though.
21:58 timeless my pod splitter https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/YkqnFHd9/0.pl
21:58 labster joined #perl6
21:58 timeless seems to work :)
21:59 timeless (and no, that's not remotely perl6 friendly, i know, i already read the 5to6 page!)
22:00 kid51 joined #perl6
22:09 cdg joined #perl6
22:10 timeless oops
22:10 * timeless needs to be a bit smarter about patching
22:21 Sgeo_ joined #perl6
22:30 raiph joined #perl6
22:37 Xliff timeless++ # coz.....DOCS!
22:37 rurban1 joined #perl6
22:37 Xliff And I must crash.
22:54 huggable joined #perl6
23:36 skids joined #perl6
23:36 timeless ok, gang
23:36 timeless is it camelia or Camelia ?
23:37 timeless see the glossary pod for camelia https://www.irccloud.com/pastebi​n/eXo01pjj/camelia.glossary.pod
23:42 rurban joined #perl6
23:42 * timeless sighs
23:43 timeless does the glossary get points for being circular?
23:46 cdg joined #perl6
23:48 AlexDaniel timeless: camelia is a bot
23:48 AlexDaniel timeless: and Camelia is a butterfly
23:48 timeless AlexDaniel: yes, so, lowercase or uppercase in the glossary?
23:48 AlexDaniel timeless: https://raw.githubusercontent.com​/perl6/mu/master/misc/camelia.txt
23:48 AlexDaniel both
23:48 AlexDaniel with different descriptions
23:49 timeless ok
23:50 rurban1 joined #perl6
23:57 AlexDaniel timeless: it is probably not the most active time of a day here right now, so please don't worry if nobody answers your question :)
23:58 AlexDaniel I should've been in the bed 3 hours ago too
23:58 * timeless should have had lunch 8 hrs ago
23:59 timeless fiddly and friends?

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