Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-06-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:02 lizmat joined #perl6
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00:17 Herby_ Evening, everyone!
00:20 Herby_ o/
00:21 timotimo hey herby
00:22 Herby_ How goes it?
00:23 timotimo enh, could be better. how about you?
00:24 Herby_ I can't complain
00:28 timotimo i'm watching my friend play Atelier Sophie, it's kind of soothing
00:36 Herby_ can't say I've heard of that one, looks like a PS4 game?
00:36 Herby_ I'm getting annoyed at 7zip... keeps giving me a CRC error
00:37 Herby_ looks like i'll be going back to WinRAR
00:37 timotimo yeah, it's the latest etnry in a long series which started on the PS2 (or maybe on the ps1 in japan only)
00:37 timotimo well, that means the file you've got is b0rked, wouldn't it?
00:38 Herby_ that's what google is telling me but WinRAR handles it just fine
00:38 timotimo oh, but atelier sophie is also out on the ps3 still, and i think also on the ps vita
00:38 Herby_ just uninstalled 7zip and reinstalled winrar, works fine
00:38 Herby_ who knows
00:38 timotimo that sounds very strange, indeed
00:39 geekosaur I have heard that elsewhere as well
00:39 geekosaur dunno if this is an actual problem with 7zip but it sounds suspicious
00:39 timotimo well, could be a bug in 7zip's crc implementation, but how hard is it to screw up CRC?
00:39 timotimo CRC itself is super simple
00:40 Herby_ yeah. I was wanting to give 7zip a shot since WinRAR doesn't like being called from a perl6 script
00:40 timotimo (on top of that, it's extremely vulnerable against attackers)
00:42 timotimo i just checked, the first atelier game was out on the PS1, but also on dreamcast and ported to windows at some point, too
00:44 Herby_ Zoffix: When is WeatherApp part 3 coming?
00:47 Herby_ timotimo: you got any perl 6 projects you're working on?
00:49 [Coke] .
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00:56 timotimo nah :\
00:56 Zoffix Herby_, it already came out: http://perl6.party/post/Perl-6-Hands-On-Workshop--Weatherapp--Part-3
00:57 Zoffix Herby_, and parts 4 and 5... um, some time after next weekend, likely.
00:57 Herby_ doh, i can't count. meant part 4
00:57 Zoffix I took a break last week and next week I'm learning how to release Rakudo. And any free time left over I'm spending on Assasins Creed 2 :")
00:59 Zoffix and IRC::Client, I guess. Got tired of writing.
00:59 timotimo ugh. i need something simple to contribute to moar, nqp or rakudo before the release, otherwise i think i have nothing in for this month's release :(
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01:34 BenGoldberg Say Zoffix, is there an IRC::Client plugin to count karma?
01:47 ilbot3 joined #perl6
01:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
02:17 Zoffix Karma is just a fairy tale invention :) Get on with the times.
02:18 Zoffix And if you were planning on writing your own, you may wanna wait a couple of weeks, until new version of IRC::Client ships
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03:22 Hotkeys What's up perlers
03:32 wbill joined #perl6
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03:47 Zoffix Midnight :) That's what :)
03:47 Zoffix \o
03:48 Herby_ \o/
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04:03 teatime trying to cobble together a USB<->3.3vTTL converter because I can't find one
04:03 teatime failing, mostly
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04:06 skids I usually use old IDE cables for such things.  Just plug the components in and twist the bus wires together as needed.  Then cover in glue after it works.
04:07 teatime lack of wire is not my issue
04:07 skids I just cannot stand soldering.
04:07 teatime I do a lot of soldering.  a good iron makes a huge difference.
04:08 teatime I currently use a Hakko FX-888D
04:08 teatime also, a flux pen.
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06:08 * teatime just sent an email to the local national park service volunteer coordinator, offering my body and soul for the summer and fall.
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08:54 llfourn teatime: have you played firewatch?
08:58 teatime negative.
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10:00 RabidGravy are there any database engines that use or allow mult-character quoting characters for identifiers?
10:01 RabidGravy e.g. something like "select * from <<Some Funky Table Name>>"
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10:09 AlexDaniel RabidGravy: just out of curiosity, why?
10:11 RabidGravy pertains to how generalised I make the quoting mechanism in the "thing for generating SQL that is loosely inspired by SQL::Abstract"
10:11 AlexDaniel ahh
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10:14 FROGGS o/
10:16 RabidGravy harr
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10:34 FROGGS nine: do you have any idea about RT #128332/#128156? I want to look into it this evening
10:34 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=128332
10:34 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=128156
10:39 nine FROGGS: I have a golfed test case (posted it onto 128156) but no idea yet. I have a hard time finding time and energy to concentrate on these issues lately :/
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10:45 FROGGS nine: k
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11:40 tbrowder hi p6 folks
11:40 tbrowder Zoffix: nice job with is-approx!
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12:22 AlexDaniel can somebody make http://irc.perl6.org/ redirect non-permanent?
12:23 moritz why?
12:23 moritz (and yes, I can)
12:24 AlexDaniel moritz: because this redirect is not permanent
12:24 moritz no?
12:24 AlexDaniel are you saying that this link will ALWAYS redirect http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-06-12 ?
12:24 moritz it redirects permanently https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today
12:25 moritz which then does a non-permenant redirect to the current day
12:25 AlexDaniel ahhhhhhh
12:25 AlexDaniel didn't notice it
12:25 AlexDaniel sorry
12:25 moritz no problem
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12:36 dalek doc: 01b0e82 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/ (3 files):
12:36 dalek doc: More link fixes
12:36 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/01b0e8260c
12:36 dalek doc: d0f46cc | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/ (6 files):
12:36 dalek doc: Less permanent redirections (mostly http → https)
12:36 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d0f46cc7d7
12:36 dalek doc: 1582aee | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Language/unicode_entry.pod:
12:36 dalek doc: Newlines in links do not work very well
12:36 dalek doc:
12:36 dalek doc: I think that it is a bug that has to be fixed, but right now
12:36 dalek doc: we can just fix the links.
12:36 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1582aeec66
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13:02 AlexDaniel moritz: actually, thinking about it again. Does it mean that links to irc.perl6.org have to be changed to perlgeek.de?
13:03 moritz AlexDaniel: there is no must or "have to"
13:04 moritz just because some tool tells you to reduce redirects doesn't mean you have to.
13:04 lizmat I think irc.perl6.org is a nice name to keep in docs
13:04 AlexDaniel it's not the tool, it's your redirect code
13:04 lizmat afk&
13:04 moritz it's a level of indirection that we can chose to keep
13:05 AlexDaniel yes, and I like it. Let's keep it
13:05 AlexDaniel but 301 is probably not the best choice then
13:11 moritz why not?
13:12 masak m: class A { has $.foo }; class B is A { has $.foo }; say B.new(:foo("OH HAI"))
13:12 camelia rakudo-moar 4179bd: OUTPUT«B.new(foo => "OH HAI", foo => "OH HAI")␤»
13:12 masak was there a way in Perl 6 to set those two $!foo attributes to different things in .new ?
13:12 moritz yes, and iirc we lost it while switching to the nom branch
13:13 masak a-ha
13:13 moritz B.new(:foo('Oh B'), :A{:foo('Oh A')})
13:13 moritz or something like that
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13:13 masak not that I mind it much; I've never felt the need for such a feature, really
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13:15 moritz oh, without the leading color
13:15 moritz my $pet = Dog.new( :name<Fido>, Animal{ :blood<warm>, :legs(4) } )
13:16 moritz from S12
13:16 moritz S12:867
13:16 synopsebot6 Link: http://design.perl6.org/S12.html#line_867
13:21 dalek doc: bed1b4d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/testing.pod:
13:21 dalek doc: Make variable names consistent
13:21 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/bed1b4da96
13:23 dalek doc: ca0c9a9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/testing.pod:
13:23 dalek doc: Attempt to fix formula rendering
13:23 dalek doc:
13:23 dalek doc: Used U+2063 at the start of each line
13:23 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ca0c9a9abe
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13:27 dalek doc: fe38f82 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/testing.pod:
13:27 dalek doc: use =begin =end pod blocks instead of invisible unicode
13:27 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fe38f829d4
13:31 AlexDaniel moritz: because it is semantically different. If you want to keep this URL because *maybe* we will change it later, then it does not sound like 301
13:32 AlexDaniel it's not “moved” and not “permanently” :)
13:33 Zoffix It really just affects browser/proxy caches
13:34 Zoffix A 301 will be cached and new attempt to fetch irc.perl6.org will fetch from the geek url right away, while a 302 will try the irc.perl6.org again
13:35 moritz which is why it's a 301 right now
13:35 moritz so that the performance penalty of the redirect is payed only once
13:36 moritz but I do see the point that "moved" doesn't quite match the semantics
13:36 Zoffix Too bad there isn't a "moved for a long time" code :P
13:37 Zoffix .oO( https://xkcd.com/927/ )
13:37 Zoffix left #perl6
13:37 moritz anyway, changed to 302 for now
13:37 mst moritz: this seems like a micro-optimisation to me and I'd be more comfortable with 302, I think
13:38 mst heh
13:38 mst moritz++ # JFDIing while I'm still trying to express my opinion
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13:39 RabidGravy is there any term-llike thingy that will be expanded on the lhs of a pair so e.g
13:39 RabidGravy m: say (pi => "PIE").perl
13:39 camelia rakudo-moar 4179bd: OUTPUT«:pi("PIE")␤»
13:40 RabidGravy expands pi rather than treating it as something to straight stringified
13:41 lizmat m: say Pair.new(pi,"PIE")
13:41 camelia rakudo-moar 4179bd: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979 => PIE␤»
13:41 AlexDaniel m: say (+(pi) => "PIE").perl
13:41 camelia rakudo-moar 4179bd: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979e0 => "PIE"␤»
13:41 psch m: say {pi}() => 2
13:41 camelia rakudo-moar 4179bd: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979 => 2␤»
13:41 AlexDaniel ah
13:41 AlexDaniel m: say ((pi) => "PIE").perl
13:41 camelia rakudo-moar 4179bd: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979e0 => "PIE"␤»
13:42 psch yeah, parens are probably the most comprehensible solution
13:42 lizmat yeah, agree
13:42 AlexDaniel actually I'd prefer Pair.new :)
13:42 mst I prefer the parens version, but I wonder if that's a perl5 aesthetic
13:43 mst m: say (pi ,=> "PIE").perl
13:43 camelia rakudo-moar 4179bd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix > instead␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say (pi ,=>7⏏5 "PIE").perl␤»
13:43 RabidGravy AlexDaniel, you appear to like typing more than is natural
13:43 mst damnit
13:43 mst so, how would I add a ,=> operator? :LD
13:43 psch mst: what does that do?  infix:['=>'] without LHS auto-quoting?
13:43 mst psch: that's what it does in perl5, yes
13:44 AlexDaniel RabidGravy: actually I'm just worried about people reading that piece of code. I think that the first reaction to these parens will be “wtf?”
13:44 psch m: sub infix:[',=>'] { $^a => $^b }; say pi ,=> 'PIE'
13:44 camelia rakudo-moar 4179bd: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979 => PIE␤»
13:44 psch mst: easy as... well
13:44 mst <3
13:45 mst I am going to make so many people cry,
13:46 RabidGravy you already do sweetie
13:47 * psch is reminded of the 'goes towards' C operator
13:48 psch y'know, as in 'x --> 0'
13:52 mst heh
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13:55 Zoffix m: sub infix:«,=>» { Pair.new: $^a, $^b }; say (pi ,=> "PIE").perl
13:55 camelia rakudo-moar 4179bd: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979e0 => "PIE"␤»
13:55 Zoffix Oh, I didn't read far enough :P
13:56 RabidGravy I think I'm going to stick with perverting prefix:<->(Pair)
13:56 mst hm?
13:57 Zoffix So it's -pi => "PIE"
13:57 psch oh god
13:57 mst m: say (-pi => "PIE").perl
13:57 camelia rakudo-moar 4179bd: OUTPUT«Cannot resolve caller Numeric(Pair: ); none of these signatures match:␤    (Mu:U \v: *%_)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
13:57 RabidGravy well for the "thing for generating SQL somewhat like SQL::Abstract", the -op => "thing" is quite natural
13:57 Zoffix m: say ( ~pi => "PIE" ).perl
13:57 camelia rakudo-moar 4179bd: OUTPUT«"pi\tPIE"␤»
13:57 Zoffix \t? :S
13:58 Zoffix Ah. k
13:58 psch m: sub prefix:<-> is looser(&infix:['=>']) { ::($^a.key) => $a.value }; say -pi => "PIE"
13:58 camelia rakudo-moar 4179bd: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979 => PIE␤»
13:58 RabidGravy I was just exploring other ways of signalling the key is an operator
13:59 * mst sighs
13:59 psch hm, probably wants '(::($^a.key) // $a.key)' on the LHS inside instead
13:59 mst I spend several years working on how to fix how terrible SQL::Abtract is, and then perl6 not only releases before me, but gets impatient and ports the unfixed version
13:59 RabidGravy I wasn't particularly interested in pies or anothing
13:59 psch oh maybe actually '(try $^a.key) // $a.key' maybe
13:59 psch ...maybe
14:00 RabidGravy who ported the unfixed version ?
14:00 mst RabidGravy: I'm implying that 'somewhat like SQL::Abstract' will likely result in 'has a bunch of the same problems as'
14:02 RabidGravy well, please feel free to make one you think works right
14:03 RabidGravy unfortunately I've hit a briick wall of yaks with Perl 6
14:05 RabidGravy so I either make something that does somewhat like I need or I'm forced to not use Perl 6
14:05 mst I'm not even honestly that fond of the syntax anymore
14:05 mst personally I'd probably try and steal a subset of LINQ instead
14:06 mst with a more lisp-y underpinning
14:06 mst (SQL::Abstract's DWIM syntax is a nightmare to do transforms on)
14:06 moritz I'd recommend stealing from sqlalchemy
14:06 mst sqlalchemy has some nice ideas, but a stunningly ugly interface
14:07 mst still worth a look but *cringe*
14:07 mst ruby's Sequel is also notable
14:07 mst (I actually really like sqlalchemy as a piece of technology, I just don't appreciate the aesthetics ;)
14:08 moritz mst: are you aware of the two separate interfaces that sqlalchemy offers?
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14:09 moritz 'cause the declarative one doesn't offend my sense of aesthetics at all
14:09 mst moritz: my memory of studying it is sufficiently vague that that's too vague a question for me to answer
14:10 mst since you can't magically make me less senile, could you link both? :)
14:10 RabidGravy I agree with all of the above, Perl 5 or 6 syntax doesn't map very well to transormation to SQL
14:14 RabidGravy but yeah, it's probably easier if I stop writing software altogether
14:15 moritz mst: that's the declarative API: http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/latest/orm/extensions/declarative/basic_use.html
14:15 moritz trying to remember what the other API is called
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14:15 moritz ah, classical
14:15 moritz http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/latest/orm/mapping_styles.html
14:18 RabidGravy that all seems rather monolithic to me
14:20 moritz it nicely decomposes into separate modules in which you define classes for your tables
14:21 RabidGravy yeah, I can see that - fairly standard tbh, but it does everything
14:21 RabidGravy that's what I mean by monolithic
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14:22 mst moritz: I think my aggravation was rather that the operator syntax can get weird for complex where clauses, rather than with the table setup stuff
14:23 mst then again, so does everybody else's operator syntax
14:25 mst x.in_(y) # brrr
14:26 moritz yes, that one is ugly
14:26 moritz because "in" is a reserved word in python
14:27 moritz a perl 6 fork would make that one less ugly :-)
14:27 mst it's the mixture of overloads and object syntax that bugs me
14:27 mst I think
14:27 mst I'd rather have all object syntax, or all overloads+functions
14:27 mst (sorry, been a while since I looked, trying to reconstruct what bugged me)
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14:28 RabidGravy I'm veering toward overloads and functions which return objects, which also simplifies the iternal design somewhat
14:29 mst that's where I was going for "how would I produce a better SQLA surface syntax"
14:29 mst WHERE { $_->foo > 3 } etc.
14:30 mst RabidGravy: basically, trying to jam it all into data structures with overloaded meanings like SQLA does makes me cry in various ways, even though it is really powerful
14:30 mst if you continue to veer in that direction, I retract my comments about "stealing our mistakes" because it sounds like you aren't stealing that bit ;)
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14:37 RabidGravy of course the advantage of a data structure approach is that it makes it easier for higher level thingies to generate them, I think there's a sweet spot where internally it's all objects which can be composed by higher level software and functions that sugar the construction of the objects
14:37 RabidGravy for people who actually type the expressions
14:39 mst right, this is where I wanted a lispish thing under the hood
14:39 mst so $_->foo > 3 becomes [ -op, '>', [ -ident => 'foo' ], [ -value => 3 ] ]
14:39 mst roughly
14:40 mst (note I've been shaving a different yak for a while so again assume fuzzy memory on top of whatever other mistakes I've made)
14:49 RabidGravy and given all the above you can also support something that is somewhat similar to the existing SQLA expression syntax due to the loveliness of multi dispatch :)
14:49 mst yep
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15:10 RabidGravy anyway as it stands I've got something that handles a sqla-like syntax almost completely with multiple dispatch *and* passes the tests, weeks away from even a preliminary release though
15:12 dalek doc: d073000 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Language/ (3 files):
15:12 dalek doc: More link fixes
15:12 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d07300025b
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15:31 dogbert17 m: say Bool.^mro # does this mean that 'Bool is Int'  ?
15:31 camelia rakudo-moar 51e1a2: OUTPUT«((Bool) (Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
15:31 timotimo yes, Bool is Int
15:31 timotimo as are all enums that are not typed a different way
15:32 dogbert17 timotimo: cool, I'm asking because in type-graph.txt it's written that 'Bool is Cool'
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15:33 dogbert17 timotimo: and reason 2 is that I want to put the enum Order in that file
15:33 timotimo ah, that ought to be fixed
15:34 dogbert17 I guess I should write   'class Order is Int'
15:35 dogbert17 and fix Bool so that it is no longer Cool :)
15:35 dalek perl6-most-wanted: 707cdc7 | Altai-man++ | most-wanted/modules.md:
15:35 dalek perl6-most-wanted: Add Netrc library
15:35 dalek perl6-most-wanted: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-most-wanted/commit/707cdc7d8f
15:35 dalek perl6-most-wanted: 43e8a04 | lizmat++ | most-wanted/modules.md:
15:35 dalek perl6-most-wanted: Merge pull request #32 from Altai-man/master
15:35 dalek perl6-most-wanted:
15:35 dalek perl6-most-wanted: Add Netrc library
15:35 dalek perl6-most-wanted: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-most-wanted/commit/43e8a044db
15:35 timotimo oh, what is Netrc?
15:36 mst timotimo: .netrc file that can contain information for user+pass and similar for e.g. ftp/http things
15:37 timotimo ah, ok
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15:41 dogbert17 is class Order a Basic,Composite or Domain-Specific class?
15:41 psch m: say Order.HOW.WHAT
15:41 camelia rakudo-moar 51e1a2: OUTPUT«(EnumHOW)␤»
15:42 psch Order is an enum
15:42 dogbert17 psch: yes, but where does it fit within the doc categories (I was probably not very clear when posting the question :)
15:43 FROGGS I dont understand the content of .rev-deps
15:43 psch oh, yeah, those categories
15:43 dogbert17 psch: suggestions welcome :)
15:44 psch dogbert17: i'd say Domain-specific.  it's definitely not Composite, and while i think it could be Basic, it's not something that always applies
15:45 dogbert17 psch: thx, I'll put it in Domain-specific and then we'll se what happens
15:45 dogbert17 s/se/see/
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15:49 dalek doc: e9e8951 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | type-graph.txt:
15:49 dalek doc: Bool is Int and Order is also Int. Timotimo++, psch++
15:49 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e9e89515d1
15:49 psch m: say Less.^mro
15:49 camelia rakudo-moar 51e1a2: OUTPUT«((Order) (Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
15:51 domidumont joined #perl6
15:52 b2gills dogbert17:  an Order is returned from &infix:<cmp> &infix:«<=>» and &infix:<leg>
15:52 b2gills m: say 1 <=> 2; say 1 <=> 1; say 2 <=> 1
15:53 camelia rakudo-moar 758413: OUTPUT«Less␤Same␤More␤»
15:57 dogbert17 b2gills: thx. I'm beginning to suspect that I shouldn't have written 'enum Order is Int' but instead 'class Order is Int'
15:57 AlexDaniel why Order is Enum but Bool is Int?
15:58 psch m: say Bool.HOW.WHAT
15:58 camelia rakudo-moar 758413: OUTPUT«(EnumHOW)␤»
15:58 psch m: say True.HOW.WHAT
15:58 camelia rakudo-moar 758413: OUTPUT«(EnumHOW)␤»
15:58 psch m: say True.^mro
15:58 camelia rakudo-moar 758413: OUTPUT«((Bool) (Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
15:58 AlexDaniel m: say Order.HOW.WHAT
15:58 camelia rakudo-moar 758413: OUTPUT«(EnumHOW)␤»
15:59 AlexDaniel oops
15:59 AlexDaniel I meant another thing
15:59 AlexDaniel why Order is “enum” but Bool is “class”?
15:59 dogbert17 in the type-graph.txt file we find e.g.  'enum Signal  is Int'  but I can't find that on doc.perl6.org
16:00 dogbert17 AlexDaniel: I'm beginning to suspect a visibilty problem
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16:00 dogbert17 say Signal.^mro
16:01 FROGGS nine: I believe I fixed the issue we talked about earlier
16:01 dogbert17 m: say Signal.^mro
16:01 camelia rakudo-moar 758413: OUTPUT«((Signal) (Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
16:01 nine FROGGS: oh, how?
16:01 FROGGS nine: the content of .rev-deps was plain wrong me thinks
16:02 FROGGS nine: https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/5f71459f95e2daf1f0886365ea7733fe
16:02 dogbert17 AlexDaniel: scratch my last comments, they where nonsense. Anyway Order is now in the type-graph.
16:03 FROGGS nine: a FOO.rev-deps contained several FOOs, and BAR.rev-deps only ever contained BAR
16:03 CIAvash joined #perl6
16:03 psch FROGGS: btw, #perl6-dev exists.  thought i mention it since i don't see you there
16:03 FROGGS psch: ohh, I'm in #p6dev
16:04 psch FROGGS: ah.  mst wanted to set up a redirect iirc, but apparently that didn't happen
16:04 psch FROGGS: something about toplevel channels on freenode having to be easily associated with the project they belong to i think cause the move
16:04 dogbert17 AlexDaniel: unless moritz has any objections I believe that 'class Bool is ...' should be changed to 'enum Bool is ...'
16:04 FROGGS psch: I see, np :o)
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16:08 nine FROGGS: looking at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/002871 I dare say you are right! Seems like I wrongly changed that from $id to $dependency.id when replacing $dependency-id with $dependency.id
16:09 FROGGS nine: :o)
16:09 FROGGS nine: spectesting now
16:09 geekosaur dogbert17, I think you're seeing a historical wart? (or possibly not so historical)
16:09 psch Bool used to not be an enum, yeah
16:10 geekosaur Bool was, and possibly still is, handled specially because the setting needed it before the Enum machinery existed
16:10 zacts joined #perl6
16:10 geekosaur (or before it was set up to work properly)
16:10 geekosaur bootstrapping issue, so Bool was actually a bootstrapping class
16:10 psch it is generated as an enum during BOOTSTRAP nowadays
16:10 nine FROGGS: panda's bootstrap is a good canary for these kinds of bugs. It's what kept me from merging the rt128156_fix_precomp_deps_validation branch
16:13 timotimo geekosaur: i think dogbert17 is just talking about a file inside the docs repo, not the core setting
16:14 geekosaur yes, my point is that the existing doc is referencing the old setup
16:14 geekosaur and it was important because people trying totreat Bool as an Enum were getting weird errors
16:14 nine FROGGS: everything looking very well so far :)
16:14 geekosaur so the doc referenced what was then the true situation
16:15 FROGGS nine: yes, will also test panda
16:16 rurban joined #perl6
16:18 Util m: my $beer = 5; say "foo" if $beer != 1; say $beer;
16:18 camelia rakudo-moar 758413: OUTPUT«foo␤5␤»
16:18 Util m: my $beer = 5; say "foo" if $beer !=1; say $beer;
16:18 camelia rakudo-moar 758413: OUTPUT«1␤»
16:18 psch m: say 1 !=1
16:18 camelia rakudo-moar 758413: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Int␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
16:18 Util In that second case, omitting the whitespace after the `!=` causes wrong output,
16:18 psch Util: long-ticket, and hard to fix
16:18 Util and unexpected assignment!
16:19 Util psch: Thanks! Can you point me to the ticket?
16:19 psch #121108
16:19 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=121108
16:19 Util psch: Excellent! Much thanks!
16:19 psch Util: you're welcome :)
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16:49 dalek ecosystem: c14df30 | Altai-man++ | META.list:
16:49 dalek ecosystem: Add Config::Netrc
16:49 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/c14df300b8
16:49 dalek ecosystem: 5fe9e25 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
16:49 dalek ecosystem: Merge pull request #218 from Altai-man/master
16:49 dalek ecosystem:
16:49 dalek ecosystem: Add Config::Netrc
16:49 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/5fe9e2539a
16:50 Zoffix πhttps://github.com/Altai-man/perl6-Config-Netrc
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17:18 dogbert17 geekosaur: so you're ok with me making the change then?
17:18 geekosaur yes
17:18 geekosaur you're correcting a historical fossil
17:18 geekosaur which hopefully is no longer relevant
17:18 geekosaur (but was when that was originally written)
17:19 dogbert17 geekosaur: many thanks, change coming up :)
17:19 * dogbert17 is a bit split between docs and football
17:20 * geekosaur too :p
17:21 dalek doc: 49fc1c4 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | type-graph.txt:
17:21 dalek doc: Change Bool from class to enum. geekosaur++
17:21 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/49fc1c4c47
17:24 rurban joined #perl6
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17:27 Zoffix Football?
17:27 Zoffix Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
17:28 travis-ci joined #perl6
17:28 travis-ci Doc build failed. Jan-Olof Hendig 'Change Bool from class to enum. geekosaur++'
17:28 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/137088856 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/e9e89515d16e...49fc1c4c4714
17:28 travis-ci left #perl6
17:29 geekosaur which ludicrous display? there were several :p
17:30 geekosaur including one that most of the folks in here probably slept through
17:30 Zoffix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yN2H3--1aw
17:31 * geekosaur considers whether he wants to load that over the work hotspot (trying to avoid e.g. video) or wait for phone to be not streaming something else
17:32 geekosaur (local notwork is doing a good simulation of a boat anchor)
17:33 Zoffix It's from the "I.T. Crowd" episode. Where there's a "bluffball" website that gives you football phrases to use in normal conversations :P
17:33 grondilu oh boy I miss that excellent show
17:34 mst Too reliant on cringe based humour for my tastes
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17:44 geekosaur agree with mst re cringe-based humor
17:47 rurban joined #perl6
17:52 cognominal joined #perl6
17:58 stmuk_ I like the sportsing cartoon
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18:31 dogbert17 interesting htmlify.p6 has suddenly stopped working
18:34 dogbert17 Processing Language Pod files ...:     39: doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod           => language/5to6-nutshell:  Method 'unit' not found for invocant of class 'List'
18:35 dogbert17 in sub extract-pod at htmlify.p6 line 174
18:36 FROGGS is that a typo for uniq?
18:38 FROGGS nah, probably not
18:38 dogbert17 FROGGS: don't thinks so, copied from cmdline output
18:38 dogbert17 FROGGS: the word unit is in the pod file though
18:39 FROGGS ahh
18:39 FROGGS I guess .load returns a list now instead a single item
18:40 dogbert17 FROGGS: does it mean we have to make a change in htmlify.p6 then?
18:40 FROGGS probably... let me check
18:41 dogbert17 I had moar-2016.02 lying around, it works fine there FWIW
18:42 FROGGS no, it is not supposed to return a list
18:44 buharin joined #perl6
18:45 dogbert17 fails on 8430f07 but worked yesterday at least
18:46 timotimo can we turn that into a one-liner to be run on the bisectbot? :)
18:46 FROGGS already trying
18:47 FROGGS ahh
18:47 FROGGS nine's patch does that
18:47 Zoffix There's a commit from 2 hours ago that returns a List: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/core/CompUnit/PrecompilationRepository.pm#L156
18:49 FROGGS are we allowed to alter .load just like that?
18:51 Zoffix ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
18:52 yqt joined #perl6
18:55 dogbert17 timotimo: time for you to grab a beer and start singing on the streets :)
18:55 edehont joined #perl6
19:02 timotimo no.
19:03 timotimo i will have nothing to do with this football thing that drags people into stadiums and near stadiums to get beaten up by insane people
19:07 ssotka joined #perl6
19:11 Zoffix Sounds like a problem that can be resolved with more guns!
19:17 * moritz barely manages to suppress a snarky comment
19:19 moritz this is a reminder that if you notice folks who submit multiple PRs to perl6/* repos, tell me or FROGGS++ or so their github usernames so that we can hand out commit bits
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19:34 dalek doc: 6e0a5b8 | moritz++ | htmlify.p6:
19:34 dalek doc: Hopefully fix htmlify on newest rakudo
19:34 dalek doc:
19:34 dalek doc: since [0]-indexing is a noop on type Any, it should work with the old rakudo too
19:34 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6e0a5b83fc
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19:39 timotimo dogbert17: it seems like there's a female commentator (is that the word?) on TV and men on social networks are in an uproar
19:40 timotimo really ... fuck widely televised, commercialised, and institutionalized footbal
19:40 timotimo football
19:40 timotimo soccer
19:40 timotimo whatever
19:41 moritz considering that the German *female* football team has been much more successful than the male team during the last two decades or so, ... well ...
19:41 zakharyas joined #perl6
19:42 moritz like, they won the last *six* european championships in a row
19:42 timotimo no, female football isn't a "real game". clearly it's easy to win at that if you put only a tiny bit of effort into it, because all the other women are clearly just doing it for shits and giggles
19:42 dogbert17 timotimo: I thought that most big games played by Germany was commentated by one, very popular, guy
19:44 moritz star-m: say 'version?'
19:44 camelia star-m 2016.04: OUTPUT«version?␤»
19:45 dalek Inline-Perl5: d854a83 | lizmat++ | lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6:
19:45 dalek Inline-Perl5: Mu.BUILDALL doesn't take positionals anymore
19:45 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/d854a8384c
19:45 nemo timotimo: I was listening to a commenter on NPR proferring the theory that the dismal lack of interest in women's team sports by both women and men is kinda due to team sport being a sort of sublimation/proxy for tribal warfare
19:46 nemo timotimo: so yeah, I can totally believe if the germans fielded a professional team and no one else was investing in it they could sweep
19:46 nemo hell US women's team did a lot better than men's
19:46 timotimo i was just bullshitting
19:47 timotimo i have no idea how much effort other countries are putting into women's football
19:47 lizmat .tell nine please doublecheck d854a83 , it allows Inline::Perl5 to test again ok
19:47 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to nine.
19:47 timotimo even worse, i bet there's still countries where having a women's football team would be forbidden
19:47 timotimo anyway, dinner is served!
19:47 moritz we should forbid men's football teams in Germany, just to compensate :-)
19:48 timotimo +1
19:48 travis-ci joined #perl6
19:48 lizmat .oO( let's hear it for the Frauschaft! )
19:48 travis-ci Doc build passed. Moritz Lenz 'Hopefully fix htmlify on newest rakudo
19:48 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/137105690 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/49fc1c4c4714...6e0a5b83fc49
19:48 travis-ci left #perl6
19:48 nemo moritz: as a non-german I support that proposal
19:48 nemo moritz: just to cut down on competition
19:48 timotimo you know, when i was a kid, i asked a classmate who was very into football "what german team will represent germany in this WM?"
19:48 timotimo he found the notion ridiculous and mocked me for not knowing there's actually a dedicated team to play in the world championship that never gets replaced
19:49 nemo moritz: although, none of the countries I have citizenship in have a chance in hell anyway
19:49 timotimo BBL
19:50 moritz nemo: I'm curious, how many citizenships do you have?
19:50 nemo moritz: well. 2½
19:50 moritz nemo: how's that? :-)
19:50 nemo moritz: I keep deferring US, although I could have gotten it like a decade ago
19:51 nemo moritz: US citizenship has a lot of disadvantages
19:51 nemo I've been sticking w/ greencard
19:51 moritz nemo: having to pay taxes in the US even if living abroad?
19:51 nemo moritz: that part was annoying, but it got even worse lately
19:51 moritz my brother-in-law had 3 citizenships, though I think by know it's back to two
19:51 nemo moritz: before you'd fill out a form and pretty much be done, 'cause most people didn't hit the threshold
19:52 nemo moritz: nowdays, you have to actually hire someone. has gotten more complicated
19:52 moritz wow
19:52 nemo also their bank reporting rules have made it almost impossible for ordinary expats living abroad to have a bank account
19:52 nemo unless you have a huge amount of money to put in it
19:52 moritz I'v seen Ovid rant on twitter about some of this stuff
19:52 nemo moritz: so, yeah, rather than having to renounce it, I just avoided getting it
19:53 nemo moritz: I can't vote here, but my impact on political system is about same as any american's
19:53 nemo ☺
19:54 autarch I don't suppose anyone has a highlight.js plugin for p6?
19:55 nemo moritz: my kids have 3 tho
19:57 Zoffix autarch, MadcapJake might
19:57 autarch MadcapJake: do you? do you? that'd be so handy
19:57 moritz nemo: nice
19:57 MadcapJake i started one but I got discouraged when I found out heredocs were impossible
19:58 Zoffix .u ☺
19:58 yoleaux U+263A WHITE SMILING FACE [So] (☺)
19:58 Zoffix :/ why is it so small :/ (or is it just my font)
19:59 nemo Zoffix: ☺ is not an emoji
19:59 nemo Zoffix: was supported long before concept of emoji appeared
19:59 nemo so some fonts treat it differently (mine doesn't)
20:00 Zoffix http://i.imgur.com/eK0UdEa.png
20:00 nemo Zoffix: I'm currently using Droid Sans Mono in my terminal window 'cause I liked its overall rendering of stuff like this
20:00 AlexDaniel .oO( tiny white smiling face )
20:00 nemo Zoffix: also when it is missing a glyph, it seems to have nicer fallbacks
20:00 nemo probably going to Droid Sans Fallback is my bet
20:01 nemo Zoffix: my experiment in irssi multiline math rendering ☺  http://m8y.org/tmp/testcase353.xhtml
20:02 nemo Zoffix: on the plus side, since ☺ is not an emoji, it is likely to render even on crappy platforms that are unfamiliar w/ the astral planes
20:10 gnull hi everyone
20:11 gnull I have a grammar with `proto token mytoken {*}; token mytoken:sym<a> {}; token mytoken:sym<b> {};`
20:12 gnull And now I can refer to any of mytoken's in other regexes of that grammar
20:12 gnull But how do I refer to exactly mytoken:sym<a> ?
20:14 gnull I want something like `token another { <mytoken:sym<a>> }` that would match :sym<a>, but not sym<b>
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20:21 b2gills m: #`(testing) grammar Test { proto token mytoken {*}; token mytoken:sym<a> {<sym>}; token mytoken:sym<b> {<sym>}; token TOP {<mytoken:sym<b>>}}; say Test.parse('a')
20:21 camelia rakudo-moar 8430f0: OUTPUT«「a」␤ mytoken => ï½¢a」␤  sym => ï½¢a」␤»
20:27 b2gills gnull: I think the reason it doesn't work is that tokens are basically just methods, and that isn't how method dispatch works. If you RT it someone might end up implementing it.
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20:40 gnull b2gills: Thank you
20:41 geraud joined #perl6
20:51 moritz gnull: the solution is to make mytoken:sym<a> call another named token, and use that instead of mytoken:sym<a> when you want to invoke it directly
20:56 rurban1 joined #perl6
20:58 nine dogbert17: FWIW I don't consider PrecompilationRepository's interface to be frozen. It's not spectested at all. That said, I of course try not to make everyone's life harder :) So if you have a testcase for me, I'll try to keep that running.
20:58 yoleaux 19:47Z <lizmat> nine: please doublecheck d854a83 , it allows Inline::Perl5 to test again ok
20:58 xfix joined #perl6
20:59 nine dogbert17: also if you have a replacement for the return of two values there, I'd be happy. I really don't like how that code turned out.
21:00 mr-foobar joined #perl6
21:02 moritz $obj does role { method CHECKSUM { $checksum } };
21:02 moritz but that's also ugly
21:03 nine Moving the checksum into CompUnit::Handle also doesn't really make me happy
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22:55 gnull m: my $a = map {say 'hooah'}, ^3; my $b = $a xx Inf; $b[^6]
22:55 camelia rakudo-moar 5d4949: ( no output )
22:56 gnull m: my $a = map {say 'hooah'}, ^3; my $b = $a xx Inf; say $b[^6]
22:56 camelia rakudo-moar 5d4949: OUTPUT«hooah␤hooah␤hooah␤((True True True) (True True True) (True True True) (True True True) (True True True) (True True True))␤»
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23:03 dogbert17 nine: I haven't made any comments wrt PrecompilationRepository's interface, that's way above my paygrade :)
23:07 b2gills m: my $a = map {'hooah'}, ^3; my $b = $a xx Inf; say $b[^6]
23:07 camelia rakudo-moar 5d4949: OUTPUT«((hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah))␤»
23:08 AlexDaniel b2gills: yeah?
23:08 AlexDaniel m: my $a = map {'hooah'}, ^3; my $b = $a xx ∞; say $b[^6]
23:09 camelia rakudo-moar 5d4949: OUTPUT«((hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah))␤»
23:09 AlexDaniel m: my $a = map {'hooah'}, ^3; my $b = $a xx *; say $b[^6]
23:09 camelia rakudo-moar 5d4949: OUTPUT«((hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah) (hooah hooah hooah))␤»
23:12 AlexDaniel m: say ‘hello’ x * # :)
23:12 camelia rakudo-moar 5d4949: OUTPUT«{ ... }␤»
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23:22 gnull I want to make an infinite list of a given Seq repeated infinite number of times
23:26 gnull But looks like Seq in list context evaluates to a list contaning that Seq
23:26 gnull m: (map {$_}, ^3) xx 3
23:26 camelia rakudo-moar 5d4949: ( no output )
23:27 gnull m: say (map {$_}, ^3) xx 3
23:27 camelia rakudo-moar 5d4949: OUTPUT«((0 1 2) (0 1 2) (0 1 2))␤»
23:27 timotimo yeah, you'd need to flat that
23:27 timotimo or slip the thing before th exx
23:27 gnull m: say (map {$_}, ^3).Slip xx 3
23:27 camelia rakudo-moar 5d4949: OUTPUT«(0 1 2 0 1 2 0 1 2)␤»
23:27 timotimo yup
23:31 AlexDaniel ah, huh, didn't notice the question :)
23:31 * AlexDaniel runs away
23:32 AlexDaniel left #perl6
23:32 timotimo i didn't see the question either
23:33 parabolize Zoffix: in http://perl6.party/post/Python-is-The-New-Write-Only-Linenoise-Language you could use print(*itertools.chain(*zip(u, l)), sep='')
23:41 Zoffix ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
23:41 Zoffix That article is ancient. I don't even remember much about it.
23:41 Zoffix And there are some more comments on BPO version: http://blogs.perl.org/users/zoffix_znet/2016/01/python-is-the-new-write-only-linenoise-language.html
23:42 parabolize depending on how long the iterables are it may be much faster than using the str.__add__ `i + j` will use. A second ''.join in the for loop would also be faster. `print(''.join(''.join((i, j)) for i, j in zip(u, l)))`
23:55 Zoffix I just went with accepted SO answers.
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