Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-06-23

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 cognominal m:   sub foo(int $val is rw) { $val = 42 };
00:00 camelia rakudo-moar 09cc2f: ( no output )
00:00 cognominal this should give an error. One can't mutate an int
00:01 cognominal m:   sub foo(int $val is rw) { $val = 42 }; my int $i = 0; foo($i); say $i
00:01 camelia rakudo-moar 09cc2f: OUTPUT«42␤»
00:01 cognominal oops
00:01 cognominal I was wrong
00:01 cognominal m:   sub foo(int $val is rw) { $val = 42 }; my $i = 0; foo($i); say $i
00:01 camelia rakudo-moar 09cc2f: OUTPUT«Expected a modifiable native int argument for '$val'␤  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
00:02 cognominal ok, I underdstand my mistake.
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00:03 cognominal really a reference
00:04 cognominal m:   sub foo(int $val is rw) { $val = 42 }; my Int $i = 0; foo($i); say $i
00:04 camelia rakudo-moar 09cc2f: OUTPUT«Expected a modifiable native int argument for '$val'␤  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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00:06 dalek doc: e15bc8f | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
00:06 dalek doc: doc .&
00:06 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e15bc8f6d2
00:08 lambd0x :'-) My first perl6 code to actually to something, 'll try to improve it later on.  https://bpaste.net/show/bd7be883000d
00:08 lambd0x *do some...
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00:10 parabolize tbrowder: this is disgusting but you could explicitly create a capture and flatten it in place: `foo |\(2, 3)`
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00:14 tbrowder actually, this also works:
00:14 tbrowder m: sub foo($x,$y){$x+$y}; foo |(2,3);
00:14 camelia rakudo-moar 09cc2f: ( no output )
00:14 tbrowder m: sub foo($x,$y){ say "$x $y"}; foo |(2,3);
00:14 camelia rakudo-moar 09cc2f: OUTPUT«2 3␤»
00:15 tbrowder m: sub foo($x,$y){ say "$x $y"}; foo flat (2,3);
00:15 camelia rakudo-moar 09cc2f: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
00:15 tbrowder m: sub foo($x,$y){ say "$x $y"}; foo (flat (2,3));
00:15 camelia rakudo-moar 09cc2f: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
00:15 tbrowder weird...
00:16 tbrowder tbrowder: scratches head and sees explanation getting complicated...
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00:30 TimToady flat flattens the arguments *to* flat, but not the list in which flat occurs; in contrast | flattens into the surrounding list
00:30 yoleaux 22 Jun 2016 18:06Z <BrokenRobot> TimToady: message for you: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​erl6/2016-06-22#i_12713791
00:31 k0dr Looking at the docs for perl 6 and confused over http://documentation.perl6.org/documentation/ vs https://docs.perl6.org
00:31 k0dr per Util, http://documentation.perl6.org/ should redirect to https://docs.perl6.org
00:31 k0dr Not sure I can help with that. Any thoughts?
00:32 lizmat moritz knows how to fix that, but I'm not sure we should
00:32 k0dr They certainly aren't the same docs. But one does seem to have more external links.
00:34 lizmat well, simply rename documentation.perl6.org to doc.perl6.org will cause at least one link to recurse
00:35 timotimo k0dr: documentation.perl6.org isn't set up at all, so it just defaults to www.perl6.org
00:36 mspo ditto sandwiches.perl6.org
00:37 k0dr Ah yes, sorry about inflating the url. However, http://perl6.org/documentation/ does work and goes to a completely different place than docs.perl6.org.
00:37 timotimo yup
00:37 k0dr Is there a right or wrong? Should they be merged?
00:40 k0dr Or are these meant for different purposes/audience?
00:40 timotimo perl6.org/documentation does link to the docs.perl6.org
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00:53 parabolize where is the < ... > operator tested in roast? S02-literals/allomorphic.t? what does the :v in qw:v/ ... / do? I ask because I'm trying to write a pull request for pygments.lexers.perl.Perl6Lexer.tokens. `r'<[^\s=].*?\S>', String` isn't doing the trick. It gets false matches and misses things it shouldn't.
00:55 timotimo the :v means "pass it through var", which is also what < foo > does
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00:59 MasterDuke .tell tbrowder https://github.com/FROGGS/p6-Slang-Tuxic will let you put a space between a sub and its argument list
00:59 yoleaux 14 Jun 2016 07:34Z <lizmat> MasterDuke: Daniel Green it is  :-)
00:59 yoleaux MasterDuke: I'll pass your message to tbrowder.
00:59 yoleaux 18 Jun 2016 19:04Z <timotimo> MasterDuke: unfortunately the core dump doesn't actually give me any stack traces or anything inside :(
01:02 tbrowder MasterDuke: t'anks a lot!!
01:02 yoleaux 00:59Z <MasterDuke> tbrowder: https://github.com/FROGGS/p6-Slang-Tuxic will let you put a space between a sub and its argument list
01:03 MasterDuke tbrowder: welcome. i only found out about it because it's required by Text::CSV
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01:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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01:58 timotimo random find of the day: if you have a set (maybe same with hashes?) using "if $theset{$value}" is considerably slower than "if defined $theset{$value}"
01:59 timotimo i'll now have a very long, close look at my pillow
01:59 BrokenRobot re sandwiches.perl6.org: DNS is set to point *.perl6.org to perl6.org for @reasons (IIRC it was easier than having to bug some entity to setup an extra subdomain each time we needed one)
02:00 BrokenRobot random find of the day: /foo/ is way faster than my @wat = 'foo'; /@wat/;
02:01 BrokenRobot m: my @c = eager ^0xFFFF .grep({$_ ~~ /BLOCK/}); say now - INIT now;
02:01 camelia rakudo-moar 09cc2f: OUTPUT«0.6439605␤»
02:02 BrokenRobot m: my @wat = 'BLOCK'; my @c = eager ^0xFFFF .grep({$_ ~~ /@wat/}); say now - INIT now;
02:02 camelia rakudo-moar 09cc2f: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
02:02 BrokenRobot m: my @wat = 'BLOCK'; my $re = rx/@wat/; my @c = eager ^0xFFFF .grep({$_ ~~ $re}); say now - INIT now;
02:03 * BrokenRobot suspects there's some sort of uber optimization in place for /'just a str'/
02:03 camelia rakudo-moar 09cc2f: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
02:03 timeless yay, i now can run code and sorta see what the code is thinking. https://www.irccloud.com/pa​stebin/r9yB0p52/myTrace.pm
02:03 timeless Is there a better way to do what I'm trying to do?
02:03 timeless specifically, i want to see the values of the variables used by each line
02:03 timeless -- i can't just step through the code, it'd take too long
02:11 BrokenRobot Good grief. Some people just baffle me... https://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments​/4pai3q/wendys_perl_6_brochure/d4jqu3f
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02:20 parabolize meta brochures
02:23 timeless BrokenRobot: fwiw, i'm not sure i disagree
02:23 timeless although, i don't understand what the blurb was
02:23 timeless is it just "wendy's perl 6 brochure"?
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02:29 BrokenRobot timeless: YAPC is in progress. Wendy has her brochure. People want digital copy to hand it out themselves as well. They got it. The End.
02:30 timeless BrokenRobot: a description could be "this is the brochure wendy is handing out at YAPC"
02:30 BrokenRobot Not everything on the Internet has to makes sense to everyone else. If you don't know who Wendy is, you can just check out the brochure. If you aren't "convinced why you should download it" then just move the fuck on
02:30 timeless that's actually useful
02:30 timeless it saves people from clicking links they don't need to
02:30 timeless and saves them from searching to figure out who wendy is
02:31 timeless if you're going to use someone else's space, you should try to understand what that space's audience is
02:31 timeless if you're posting on yapc.org, then yapc.org/wendy-brochure is probably good enough
02:32 timeless if you're posting in a general reddit.com domain, then it wouldn't shock me for someone to slap you w/ a trout for not giving some context
02:32 BrokenRobot Why do you need context?
02:32 BrokenRobot It's Perl 6 brochure!
02:32 BrokenRobot 1 sheet!
02:32 timeless about what?
02:32 timeless debugging?
02:32 BrokenRobot Posted by a Perl 6 celebrity!
02:32 timeless internals?
02:32 timeless commandlines?
02:32 timeless migration?
02:32 timeless installation?
02:32 BrokenRobot Open it and read it!
02:32 timeless keywords?
02:32 BrokenRobot It takes half a fuckign second!
02:33 BrokenRobot s/Perl 6/Perl/;
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02:35 lizmat it's intended to give out to passers by at the Perl booth on Perl events and non-Perl events like FOSDEM
02:35 lizmat it's intended as PR for Perl 6
02:35 lizmat it sucks a lot less than most other marketing for Perl
02:36 lizmat timeless ^^^
02:36 lizmat and now I get back to socializing&
02:36 timeless lizmat: see, that's a great thing to include in a description
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03:23 Xliff Of course.... you have to download LibreOffice (or a 3rd party viewer) to read it.
03:23 yoleaux 22 Jun 2016 05:50Z <FROGGS_> Xliff: we care about that after the merge, aye
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03:26 timeless Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed.  in method Str at /home/timeless/hg/perl6/rakudobrew/moar-nom/in​stall/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm line 1
03:26 timeless could moar blame the caller instead of the line it's currently blaming?
03:48 dalek specs: 340c686 | util++ | S28-special-names.pod:
03:48 dalek specs: Change @*INC to @?INC , which was missed in commit dd31858
03:48 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/340c686f87
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05:00 russian_mafia hi
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05:28 sammers anyone in here working on Bailador?
05:29 sammers Trying to figure out how to serve up a directory without specifying direct routes.
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05:51 Xliff sammers: Why would you want to use Bailador without routes?
05:53 Xliff Or are trying to have a "dispatch route"... a way to code routes to handle multiple URIs?
06:04 moritz good morning
06:04 moritz everybody, should our canonical website be perl6.org or www.perl6.org?
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06:09 lizmat perl6.org is what we have on the buttons we give to everybody
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06:10 lizmat sleep&
06:10 woolfy I am Wendy.  I have been doing simple marketing shit for Perl for 5+ years.  I made a brochure about Perl 6.  Some people wanted a copy.  Some people wanted to commit changed.  I make my first Github project around that file.  There.
06:11 woolfy It's just marketing blurb about Perl 6.  It's a brochure.  Marketing.  Not about internals, commandlines, migration.  Brochure.  Why is that difficult.
06:11 lizmat joined #perl6
06:13 parabolize I like less characters in 'perl6.org' but I'm guessing there is more important considerations
06:13 woolfy It's not going to be a big project.  But if I get a lot of stuff like nasty people on Reddit bothering me via email because of this ( https://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments​/4pai3q/wendys_perl_6_brochure/d4jqu3f ) I will delete it and ignore requests.
06:14 sortiz moritz, I prefer the short form. But I don't see any real difference.
06:14 lizmat joined #perl6
06:15 sammers Xliff, actually, just looking for one of the p6 modules to serve up a static directory with all of its subdirectories
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06:23 redhands98100 p6: say 5.WHAT
06:23 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
06:23 redhands98100 p6: 5.WHAT
06:23 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: ( no output )
06:23 russian_mafia hey can I pass to function argument anonymous function?
06:25 smls russian_mafia: You mean like this?
06:25 smls m: sub twice (&f) { f; f; };  twice { say "Hi" }
06:25 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«Hi␤Hi␤»
06:26 russian_mafia m: sub twice (&f) { f }; twice( -> () { say "fuck" });
06:26 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
06:27 russian_mafia I mean this because my callback is in second place
06:28 smls The anonymous function  -> () { ... }  expects a single positional argument.
06:28 russian_mafia really?
06:28 russian_mafia where?
06:28 smls Use   -> { ... }   or simply   { ... }   if you want no arguments.
06:29 smls A   ()  inside a signature, takes a Positional.
06:29 russian_mafia lol
06:29 russian_mafia it is $_
06:29 russian_mafia ?
06:31 smls Right,  {...}  takes zero or one arguments.   -> {...}  takes exactly zewro.
06:31 russian_mafia smls, thanks bro
06:32 smls m: sub f ($a, ($b, $c)) { say ($a, $b, $c) };  my @a = 4, 6;  f 2, @a
06:32 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«(2 4 6)␤»
06:32 smls ^^ This is why () in a signature takes a Positional argument, by the way. It's used for destructuring array arguments.
06:33 russian_mafia smls, ye I see
06:33 sammers Xliff, something like this (p5): '$s=HTTP::Server::Brick->new(port=>8000); $s->mount("/"=>{path=>"."}); $s->start'
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06:35 redhands98100 Thanks smls. Silly question, in your function example, if I wanted to pass f again to another function without calling f, how would I do that?
06:35 smls Write  &f
06:35 redhands98100 Ah, thanks
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06:53 stmuk *sigh* reddit and similar really aren't good for programming langs. I have wondered whether perl6 needs something like undeadly.org (for the OpenBSD community)
06:54 stmuk moderated, low volume classic slashdot type forum (maybe with a more modern theme)
06:55 moritz what I'd really like is a blog/rss aggregator where a few admins can also inject some custom posts
06:55 smls stmuk: Can't a subreddit be moderated and have a modern theme?
06:56 moritz like pl6anet.org, but with an option to add URLs to one-off posts
06:58 stmuk moritz: hmmm that's not a bad idea ... some commenting and upvoting of posts as well maybe
06:59 stmuk smls: yes but I'm really not that keen on reddit and, well, we are programmers!
07:03 moritz stmuk: I'm not sure comments add that much value, compared to the hassle of having to deal with spam and so on
07:06 ShimmerFairy we really need some kind of forum software in Perl 6, codenamed October naturally :) .
07:06 stmuk I was also wondering whether technical discussions might outgrow IRC
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07:07 redhands98100 stumbled across a post on Perlmonks, author was unhappy about perl6 related nodes. Perhaps something like perl6monks.com
07:09 stmuk or use.perl6.org :)
07:09 ShimmerFairy stmuk: "might"?! :P
07:09 * ShimmerFairy wonders when someone will pipe up and mention the mailing lists......oh.
07:11 stmuk defunct mostly
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07:14 sammers Xliff, I was able to get it working, might be overkill but it does what I need https://gitlab.com/snippets/21446
07:14 moritz redhands98100: if I'd still be motivated to use perlmonks, I wouldn't leave just because some guy is unhappy with it
07:21 redhands98100 moritz: i guess that makes sense, so long as it doesn't make all or most of them unhappy.
07:22 redhands98100 p6: 42.WHAT
07:22 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: ( no output )
07:23 moritz redhands98100: the last time I've particpated in such a discussion, it seemed that the majority (and the moderators) were fine with that, with some conditional on Perl 6 posts being recognizable from the title. Which I'm totally fine with.
07:25 redhands98100 moritz: ah I see, that makes sense.
07:26 stmuk I'd prefer a fresher forum reboot than perlmonks myself
07:27 * moritz too
07:27 stmuk something that integrated more with existing p6 discussion on IRC too
07:29 smls The perlmonk forum software does feel pretty outdated and cumbersome, what with being forced to manually write out <p> and <br> tags, and things like that.
07:31 moritz also the markup is terrible, and no proper UTF-8 support
07:31 redhands98100 Perlmonks has aged a bit, but I think it's aged well, it's surprisingly functional / clean, it has an almost Craigslist like appeal
07:32 moritz non-latin1 characters are converted to &foo; entities, which don't work in <code>...</code> blocks
07:32 moritz which can be a real PITA
07:32 smls Also, it hard wraps code to 60 or 70 chasracters. Super annoying... :P
07:32 stmuk its just slashcode isn't it? or an older fork. https://soylentnews.org/ uses an actively maintained forkk
07:32 moritz smls: it's configurable per user
07:33 moritz I wonder if we should simply use a Discourse forum
07:33 moritz it's not perfect, but it's quite functional and has a modern feel to it
07:34 smls moritz: Right, but it's only configurable on the receiving end. I'd like my posts t look readable for other, including not-logged-in readers.
07:34 moritz smls: understandable :-)
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07:35 moritz perlmonks also has some non-default, modern-ish themes, but the default is still old-fashioned
07:36 stmuk does perlmonks support utf-8?
07:36 stmuk Discourse looks pretty good
07:39 moritz stmuk: as I mentioned above, UTF-8 support in perlmonks is pretty hacky (and doesn't work at all in code blocks)
07:40 stmuk ah missed that
07:40 smls A nice thing about perlmonks, though, is having a terse syntax for links to perldoc and cpan etc.
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07:41 smls Could stuff like that be done as a custom extension in Discourse?
07:42 moritz dunno
07:42 stmuk I did quite like the "gitit" wiki http://gitit.net/
07:43 stmuk maybe something like that with threading
07:43 moritz we had that running on feather (the p6c.org precursor) for a while
07:43 moritz but in the end, nobody used it much
07:44 redhands98100 Hmm, silly question, it looks like the .WHAT metamethod doesn't return anything, but calling 'say' on it does print something. Wonder what is happening there.
07:44 moritz redhands98100: it returns a type object
07:44 moritz redhands98100: and .say calls its .gist method, which returns "(typename)"
07:44 stmuk yeah the problem with all this stuff is more adoption than technical .. we need something which grows out of how we discuss p6 already not something new which need adoption
07:44 stmuk not sure what :)
07:45 moritz well, we discuss Perl 6 on IRC and on reddit
07:45 moritz and on the mailing lists, to some extend
07:45 stmuk its mostly IRC
07:46 moritz so a forum software that offered a semiautomatic way to draw a conversation from one of these sources into the forum might be a win
07:46 BooK 3
07:46 moritz BooK: nah, <3! :-)
07:46 stmuk moritz: yes
07:46 dalek DBIish: e156cc0 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | README.pod:
07:46 dalek DBIish: Add documentation for DBIish connect method.
07:46 dalek DBIish:
07:46 dalek DBIish: IMO this cover the issues noted by jkeenan++
07:46 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/e156cc0f8e
07:46 BooK nah ♥
07:47 redhands98100 moritz: ah thanks
07:48 moritz m: say 4.perl; say 4.WHAT.perl; say 4.WHAT.gist; say 4.^name; say 4.^name.perl
07:48 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«4␤Int␤(Int)␤Int␤"Int"␤»
07:50 stmuk maybe just a bot which flattens some IRC discussion into an RSS post? not sure how to "tag" for saving on IRC
07:50 stmuk maybe "newbot: save 08:44:50-08:45:00"
07:51 moritz stmuk: the IRC logs have an "enable summary mode" button that adds check boxes to lines
07:52 moritz stmuk: maybe that mechanism could be (ab)used for that
07:52 redhands98100 moritz: ah thank you. I suppose I was confused by expecting 5.WHAT to have an rvalue which would then be displayed by the reply.
07:52 moritz and then adding /summary to the URL exports only the summarized part, for example http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-06-23/summary
07:52 ShimmerFairy stmuk: hmm, organically-developed greater discussion method... ooh, I know! A "forum" powered by github gists! :P
07:53 stmuk that summary mode looks useful
07:53 moritz redhands98100: 5.WHAT does return a value, that value is just the type itself
07:53 moritz redhands98100: and the confusing part is that say(Int) prints "(Int)", but using it as a string results in an empty string
07:54 moritz m: say(Int)
07:54 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
07:54 moritz m: say(~Int)
07:54 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Int in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed.  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
07:54 moritz (... and a warning)
07:54 sortiz redhands98100, In fact, on a recent rakudo, the REPL prints the value.
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07:56 redhands98100 Ah I see, thanks for the clarification.
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08:03 * Woodi would like a blog generally IT-centric hosted by blogs.perl.org (but other domain)...
08:04 llfourn m: BEGIN note "foo".subst("foo","bar")
08:04 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤An exception occurred while evaluating a BEGIN␤at <tmp>:1␤Exception details:␤  Type check failed in binding cds; expected Any but got Mu (Mu)␤    in code  at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
08:04 llfourn :\
08:04 Xliff Hmmm....blog software.
08:04 Xliff It's been a while since Slashcode.
08:05 Xliff o7 #perl6. Sweet dreams.
08:06 smls llfourn: See RT 122789
08:06 llfourn RT #122789
08:06 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=122789
08:06 psch m: BEGIN { my $/ := Any; note "foo".subst("foo","bar") }
08:06 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«bar␤»
08:06 llfourn smls: cheers
08:06 psch it's really just that we set $/ too late
08:07 llfourn ah
08:07 psch might be rather easy to patch, or might not :)
08:08 smls psch: Thanks, I added that info to the RT.
08:08 psch the exception isn't particularly weird either, in my opinion, but it depends on knowing that we use cds as "caller_dollar_slash", which explains why the solution above works
08:09 psch where 'we use cds' means 'the abbreviation cds expands to' i guess
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08:21 redhands98100 p6: qx/whoami/
08:21 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«qx, qqx is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 1␤  in sub QX at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 11␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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08:32 redhands98100 Hmm, wonder how the system call restriction is implemented here. Trying to build a tryperl6.org to increase p6 exposure.
08:33 geekosaur RESTRICTED.setting is just an alternative setting ("core library", if you will) that has some functions stubbed out
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08:35 geekosaur also, as it is currently set up, it's not as restricted as one could wish
08:35 psch redhands98100: fwiw, perl6 is on glot.io
08:39 redhands98100 psch: oh neat
08:39 redhands98100 geekosaur: ah thank you
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09:19 dalek doc: af0228e | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
09:19 dalek doc: add a few operators to the index
09:19 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/af0228ebf9
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09:38 AlexDaniel redhands98100: do not use restricted setting if you want it to be secure
09:49 Ulti redhands98100 re perlmonks I'm not convinced language communities should bother creating their own support sites anymore, just use Stackoverflow... there are plenty of QnA on there under 'perl6'
09:51 brrt well, perlmonks is a cultural legacy
09:51 brrt stack overflow is very effective
09:51 brrt but not part of anyones culture like perlmonks is for perl
09:51 smls Ulti: stackoverflow is kinda impersonal though. It may be an efficient support site for people with acute programming problems, but not so much a community or a place to foster experiemenation and stuff.
09:51 Ulti yeah but the perl5 culture is one of isolation and xenophobia now
09:51 Ulti like the UK
09:52 brrt otoh, you can't force culture to develop
09:52 Ulti smls sure but I think something like IRC/Slack is more that community feel
09:52 Ulti people dont like their personality existing on the internet forever in some back water
09:52 brrt maybe not anymore
09:53 Ulti sure because back when perlmonks was invented no one had really experienced that longevity and your personality growing
09:53 Ulti because the interwebs was new
09:54 Ulti now you have the prospect of something angry and dumb you said when you were 15 being assigned to you when you are 35 looking for a job
09:56 Ulti and there is a lot of angry and dumb on perlmonks along with eloquent and egalitarian
10:00 gregf_ *uses google a lot* ;)
10:00 gfldex there should be a prize for being polite on the intarwebs
10:01 jnthn gfldex: Only a moron would suggest that!
10:02 jnthn (Dear person who wants to hire me in 15 years: I was joking :P)
10:03 psch being nice in general is underincentivized :/
10:03 psch s/in general/generally/
10:04 psch clearly the answer is machine overlords \o/
10:04 gregf_ being impolite helps noone.. *unless someones trolling*
10:05 gfldex well, I found that when I'm polite some ppl start to believe I like them. That can lead to problems. Being impolite can help in those situations.
10:06 gfldex Politeness requires intelligence on both ends.
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10:10 gfldex the following commit seams not to have made it onto the live docs, the build log is fine tho. https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e1​5bc8f6d2fe80eb43d6eb2ef009119acc39d859
10:11 gfldex is there a problem with sync on docs.perl6.org ?
10:12 gfldex or do I got a caching problem on my end of the web?
10:12 smls m: class A does Iterable { has @.a handles <iterator> }
10:12 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Method 'iterator' must be implemented by A because it is required by a role␤at <tmp>:1␤»
10:12 smls ^^ Shouldn't this work?
10:12 psch smls: handles is... handled after 'does'
10:13 psch although i think that's only part of the explanation
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10:17 smls So what's the right way to make an Iterable that delegates to @.a?
10:17 gfldex i think it should not work. A role can inject attributes into your class. handles wont do that. Further extending a type with something smartmatchable is not the same thing the delegation.
10:18 psch m: class A does Iterable { has @.a; method iterator { @.a.iterator } }; .say for A.new(:a[1,2,3])
10:18 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
10:18 psch i'm not sure it shouldn't work, but ISTR that there was some discussion a few weeks back that explained why it doesn't work
10:20 gfldex m: class A does Iterable { has @.a; method iterator { @.a.iterator } }; .say for A.new(:a[1,2,3]); my multi sub infix:<~~>(A:D \LHS, Iterable:U \LHR) { True }; say so A.new ~~ Iterable;
10:20 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot override infix operator '~~', as it is a special form handled directly by the compiler␤(consider implementing an ACCEPTS method)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3.new(:a[1,2,3]); my multi sub infix:<~~>7…»
10:21 psch m: class A does Iterable { has @.a; method iterator { @.a.iterator } }; .say for A.new(:a[1,2,3]); say so A.new.isa(Iterable)
10:21 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤False␤»
10:21 psch m: class A does Iterable { has @.a; method iterator { @.a.iterator } }; .say for A.new(:a[1,2,3]); say so A.new.does(Iterable)
10:21 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤True␤»
10:21 psch m: class A does Iterable { has @.a; method iterator { @.a.iterator } }; .say for A.new(:a[1,2,3]); say so A.new ~~ Iterable
10:21 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤True␤»
10:22 gfldex m: class A does Iterable { has @.a; method iterator { @.a.iterator }; multi method ACCEPTS(A:D: Iterable:U) { True } }; .say for A.new(:a[1,2,3]); say so A.new ~~ Iterable;
10:22 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤True␤»
10:23 psch gfldex: why do you need the ACCEPTS candidate?
10:23 gfldex i don't really need it, just wanted to see what happens.
10:24 psch alright
10:24 gfldex m: class A does Iterable { has @.a; method iterator { @.a.iterator }; multi method ACCEPTS(A:D: Iterable:U) { True } }; .say for A.new(:a[1,2,3]); say so A.new ~~ Iterable; sub f(Iterable:D \it){ dd it }; f(A.new)
10:24 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤True␤A.new(a => [])␤»
10:24 gfldex m: class A does Iterable { has @.a; method iterator { @.a.iterator }; multi method ACCEPTS(A:D: Iterable:U) { False } }; .say for A.new(:a[1,2,3]); say so A.new ~~ Iterable; sub f(Iterable:D \it){ dd it }; f(A.new)
10:24 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤True␤A.new(a => [])␤»
10:24 gfldex oi!
10:25 gfldex m: class A { has @.a; method iterator { @.a.iterator }; multi method ACCEPTS(A:D: Iterable:U) { False } }; .say for A.new(:a[1,2,3]); say so A.new ~~ Iterable; sub f(Iterable:D \it){ dd it }; f(A.new)
10:25 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤False␤Type check failed in binding it; expected Iterable but got A (A.new(a => []))␤  in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
10:25 gfldex m: class A { has @.a; method iterator { @.a.iterator }; multi method ACCEPTS(A:D: Iterable:U) { True } }; .say for A.new(:a[1,2,3]); say so A.new ~~ Iterable; sub f(Iterable:D \it){ dd it }; f(A.new)
10:25 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤False␤Type check failed in binding it; expected Iterable but got A (A.new(a => []))␤  in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
10:26 gfldex looks like type checks are special
10:27 psch ..what?
10:27 psch gfldex: ACCEPTS is always for the RHS argument
10:27 psch m: class A is Int { method ACCEPTS { say "fiddlesticks" }; say A.new ~~ Int
10:27 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Missing block␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3{ say "fiddlesticks" }; say A.new ~~ Int7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤        statement…»
10:27 psch m: class A is Int { method ACCEPTS { say "fiddlesticks" } }; say A.new ~~ Int
10:27 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«True␤»
10:27 psch m: class A is Int { method ACCEPTS { say "fiddlesticks" } }; say Int ~~ A.new
10:27 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2␤  in method ACCEPTS at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
10:27 psch m: class A is Int { method ACCEPTS($) { say "fiddlesticks" } }; say Int ~~ A.new
10:27 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«fiddlesticks␤True␤»
10:28 smls Is delegation not the recommended way to make custom classes that behave similar to the built-in List and friends?
10:29 smls I suppose I could inherit from List, instead.
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10:32 smls Hm, except that List's implementation of .new seems to skip BUILD:
10:32 smls m: class A is List { submethod BUILD(:$x) { say $x } }; A.new(x => 42)
10:33 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: ( no output )
10:33 smls So I guess I'd have to implement .new as well, and use nextsame?
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10:36 gfldex smls: see 2nd example in https://doc.perl6.org/language/variables
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10:49 gregf_ smls: should be just extending?
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10:51 timotimo ^- hack was just force-rebooted after going up to 200 load again
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10:53 Zoffix sammers, there's Bailador::Plugin::Static plugin https://github.com/zoffixznet​/perl6-Bailador-Plugin-Static
10:54 smls gregf_: I'm trying to write a class FooGroup that acts like a list of Foo objects, but also has a public $.name attribute and .subgroups method.
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10:56 smls So I need to take additional (optional) parameters in .new/BUILD
10:58 Zoffix woolfy, just ignore those idiots. The Internet is chockful of people who can't create anything piling shit on those who do.
10:59 gregf_ smls: *wonders if there is a super method*
10:59 gregf_ *googles*
11:00 gregf_ oh, you should be able to override new. i guess BUILD gets called after new?
11:01 gregf_ class MyList is List { has Str $.name; sub BUILD(%args){ super(%args); };  method subgroups(Block $bl){ self.map($bl.($_)); }}; my MyList $l = MyList.new(name => "hello"); $l.subgroups(-> $x { $x % 2 == 0 }) # doesnt compile
11:01 smls I think the default .new calls .bless, and bless calls all BUILD candidates in the inheritance hierarchy.
11:02 timotimo yeah, .bless calls BUILDALL, which does pretty much that
11:02 smls But either the .new or .bless rovided by class List, doesn;t play along... :P
11:02 smls *provided
11:02 timotimo personally, i'd just mix in a role after creating the list :P
11:03 timotimo no BUILD required
11:04 smls How would I get the $.name attribute etc. initialized then?
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11:06 timotimo just set them
11:09 gfldex m: role R { method foo() { say 'mixed' } }; class SelfMixer { method new() { my \s = self.bless; s does R; s } }; SelfMixer.new.foo;
11:09 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«mixed␤»
11:09 gfldex m: role R { method foo() { say 'mixed' } }; class SelfMixer { method new() { my \s = self.bless; s does R; s } }; say so SelfMixer.new ~~ R;
11:09 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«True␤»
11:10 smls Interesting approach... :)
11:11 smls m: .say for List.^find_method("BUILD");  # Weird error message...
11:11 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«Method 'map' not found for invocant of class 'Mu'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
11:11 timotimo m: .say for Mu
11:11 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«Method 'map' not found for invocant of class 'Mu'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
11:11 gfldex if i would be a mad scientist I would choose Perl 6
11:11 smls ah, no, it makes sense
11:11 smls timotimo: right
11:12 timotimo .^find_method would also only return one result
11:12 timotimo (IIRC)
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11:34 sammers Hi Zoffix, thanks, I was able to get it working without the plugin https://gitlab.com/snippets/21446, but I will take a look.
11:40 timotimo isn't it just great how afl-fuzz stumbles over a few test cases that sometimes crash during the dry run and just out-right aborts
11:40 * timotimo rms and re-tries
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11:42 ZoffixMobile sammers, IIRC the plugin does pretty much the same thing
11:42 ZoffixMobile sammers, I believe your version has a security hole: can read any file on the system
11:43 sammers yeah, there is absolutely no security considerations in my little script.
11:43 sammers plugin looks good
11:43 timotimo well, at least prevent ".." in the path ...
11:44 ZoffixMobile I think same can be done with core ::Static route that was introduced after I made the plugin. I forget the details tho
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11:49 timotimo wow, there's a really funky audio glitch going on in the Q&A here
11:50 timotimo alternatively: TimToady confirmed to be a robot from outer space
11:50 moritz sounds legit
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11:55 sammers ZoffixMobile, what path do you pass to access local files? I tried /../path/to/local/file, but it just dumps and errs.
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12:13 ZoffixW sammers, I just read it on my phone and not actually ran it. Lemme try
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12:13 sammers cool, thanks
12:15 ZoffixW sammers, ah, I see. The browser seems to process the /../ before making the request. The hack works if you use telnet tho: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet​/61cf2b250ac0c0f0c25414dd17986a8a
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12:19 ZoffixW The ::Static plugin may also be broken. Looking at it now, I think this condition needs to be !~~ not ~~ :S https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6​-Bailador-Plugin-Static/blob/master​/lib/Bailador/Plugin/Static.pm6#L9
12:21 ZoffixW m: my $asset = '/foo/../../bar.txt'; say $*SPEC.catdir: 'assets', $*SPEC.splitdir($asset).grep({ $_ ~~ $*SPEC.curupdir });
12:21 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«assets/foo/bar.txt␤»
12:22 ZoffixW m: $*SPEC.curupdir.say
12:22 camelia rakudo-moar 78d2ce: OUTPUT«none(., ..)␤»
12:22 ZoffixW Ahh, it's a none junction. Nevermind
12:23 ZoffixW .oO( counter-intuitive to ~~ with "curupdir" to mean "not curupdir" :/ )
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12:25 sammers ok, thanks, I am trying the telnet commands, but it isn't returning anything... still messing with it
12:27 timotimo rm'ing so many of the afl queue, restarting over and over again ... this is not fun. i really feel resumability in afl should be improved, or maybe there's just a flag that'll do my work for me and not require full re-starts
12:28 sammers yeah, ok, it works
12:28 sammers hmm
12:30 timotimo grrr, another one that crashed
12:31 timotimo made it to something above 11k, so it should soon-ish make it all the way through ... here's hoping!
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12:36 moritz what is afl?
12:37 timotimo american fuzzy lop
12:37 timotimo a very fuzzy breed of rabbits
12:37 timotimo also a fuzzing tool
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12:43 sammers ok, updated the script to drop paths with '..', thanks
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12:51 [Coke] I wonder if there is an IRC client that would help me not hate IRC.
12:51 arnsholt I'm very happy with irssi
12:51 arnsholt But then again, I'm one of *those* people =)
12:53 Woodi [Coke]: what are your requirments ? :)
12:53 [Coke] (and has no indication that there's a discussion behind it)
12:53 [Coke] ... did I miss a send? wtf.
12:53 [Coke] (missed line) so, I use irssi; leave it running in a screen on a machine that is occasionally rebooted. restarting, I end up losing half my conversations. I have a /win, for example, that is very likely perl6-dev, but it's not rejoined properly somehow. so it just says 6:freenode (change with ^X)
12:54 timotimo ;(
12:54 timotimo i'm quite pleased with weechat
12:55 timotimo burgh! test case 011196 exploded, too
12:55 moritz [Coke]: the same happens to my irssi too, but server reboots happen seldom enough that I don't worry about it
12:55 [Coke] (I mean, there's also the architectural issue where I can't get guaranteed delivery of messages. wonder if there's a web app I can use that would provide more reliable delivery so the restarts on hack would be irrelevant.
12:55 psch autojoining channels works perfectly fine here
12:55 [Coke] moritz: we have different definitions of seldom, I guess.
12:56 [Coke] psch: And where is that?
12:56 psch [Coke]: on hack with irssi
12:56 [Coke] moritz: assuming you're also running on hack.
12:56 [Coke] psch: Can I see your config file?
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12:57 psch [Coke]: in a bit, yeah, gonna clean it up a bit
12:57 moritz [Coke]: I run it on my own VPS
12:57 moritz [Coke]: I've also at one point set up irc.p6c.org for a VM only for IRC, but the usage was zero.
12:57 moritz so I scraped it again
12:57 timotimo we should just reboot hack daily :P
12:57 timotimo that'll fix it real soon
12:58 psch [Coke]: https://gist.github.com/peschwa/​ba5cec2763266988c30805606968606b is the relevant bits i'd say
12:58 [Coke] moritz: really? I didn't see that. the message must have gone out on irc, which does not guarantee delivery. :P
12:58 Woodi [Coke]: "losing conversations" - you would like to have every chat message logged to a files (like in Eve Online game, very nice for "logs leak"/"in game diplomacy" :) ) ?
12:58 psch the one thing that doesn't seem to work is the autosendcmd, but i don't really mind that
12:58 moritz [Coke]: :/
12:59 [Coke] Woodi: I can go to the irclog site for that. Ideally, it would be part of my day to day client usage.
13:00 psch i wanted to move to irc.p6c.org, but it repeated slipped my mind :/
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13:00 Woodi [Coke]: anyway Solid State Memory would be nice :)
13:03 Woodi .oO(town-wide clouds?)
13:04 moritz [Coke]: ssh coke@irc.p6c.org
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13:05 moritz [Coke]: ... though I guess I should do a few security updates there (and reboot) before you start using it for realz :-)
13:05 moritz (because that VM had been sleeping for about a year or so)
13:06 Woodi moritz: is it OpenBSD ? ;)
13:06 moritz Woodi: no
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13:09 mantovani guys, can I use any java lib in Perl 6 ?
13:09 mantovani like Scala
13:09 moritz mantovani: only if you use the JVM backend, and that's a bit broken at the moment
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13:10 psch mantovani: and even on the JVM backend that's a strong "not yet", not a "yes
13:10 psch "
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13:10 psch mantovani: implementing a Java interface in a Perl 6 class is one thing that has not yet worked before
13:10 mantovani :'(
13:10 psch mantovani: patches welcome... :)
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13:10 moritz [Coke], psch: I've security-updated and rebooted irc.p6c.org, created accounts for the both of you, and copied your ssh keys from hack over to the new machine
13:11 psch moritz: great, thanks :)
13:11 mantovani almost vendor maintain it owns Java SDK/PI library if we could use it native in Perl 6 would be perfect
13:11 moritz also tmux, screen, irssi and weechat installed
13:11 mantovani any almost vendor maintain it owns Java SDK/API library if we could use it native in Perl 6 would be perfect.*
13:11 timotimo people might be interested in quassel, btw
13:11 timotimo it has the engine vs front-end separation thing going
13:12 timotimo kind of like weechat with its relays, and irssi has something similar as well
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13:17 moritz oh, quassel seems to be graphical
13:18 moritz I just wondered why installing it would drag along another 288 packages :-)
13:18 nine Should I suggest using Inline::Java via Inline::Perl5? Or would that be even too crazy for me? ;)
13:19 smls http://i.imgur.com/9VY0zGR.jpg
13:19 mantovani nine: I don't want to use Java sintaxe, if I would I wouldn't need inline lol.
13:20 timotimo ah, i didn't know there isn't a CLI client for quassel
13:21 psch eh, from the looks of it you only need really need to do the construction in Java
13:21 nine mantovani: Inline::C is probably the only module in the Inline:: familiy where the "Inline" part of the name is really the important one. For all others, being able to write the code inline is merely a small extra feature and the important bit is being able to use existing code.
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13:21 psch +code
13:21 timotimo now test case 011515 crashed it >:(
13:21 nine mantovani: and even Inline::C can be used as a more convenient way to use C libraries in Perl 5 than the standard XS way.
13:24 timotimo there's ~12300 files in the queue ... i don't want to do another four runs :o
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13:28 [Coke] moritz: unfortunately, I can't ssh to that box from work because of the hostname.
13:33 mspo 213.95.82.55
13:33 mspo although the ptr is revealing
13:35 mst mantovani: which part of the Inline::Java documentation implies that it requires using java syntax, or did you just answer without looking ? :P
13:35 moritz [Coke]: want me to call it 'communication.p6c.org' instead?
13:36 moritz shorter (but still speaking) name suggestions would be welcome
13:36 mst oh, wow, your work firewall blocks any hostname with 'irc' in it?
13:36 mantovani mst: I can't extend a class or use reflection using perl5 sintaxe. at least is what I understood from the documentation.
13:36 mst this reminds me of youporn.com being unable to sponsor a perl.org ircd because their hosting company wouldn't allow it
13:37 moritz lol
13:37 mst mantovani: well, no, but that's not what you asked for.
13:37 mantovani 09:09 < mantovani> like Scala
13:38 mantovani In Scala I can do what it.
13:38 mantovani but I would prefer infinity more use perl 6 than scala.
13:38 psch mantovani: with such a strong preference you sure have to have some desire to help
13:38 psch *surely
13:38 nine mantovani: takes quite a few contributions till we get there
13:39 moritz if the desire is indeed infintely larger, then any finite obstacles can be overcome
13:41 mantovani Perl 6 is /win 2
13:43 mantovani I have it, I would need to read the dragon book again and it not just it, perl 6 implementation is really complex
13:44 mantovani implement a subset of java is trivial, implement a subset of perl 6 isn't.
13:44 psch mantovani: fwiw, the thing that's needed to use (more kinds of) Java classes in perl6 is mostly JAva
13:44 psch s/A/a/
13:45 Ptolemarch joined #perl6
13:49 masak .u 囍
13:49 yoleaux No characters found
13:50 masak wow, I don't see yoleaux draw a blank that often.
13:51 harmil joined #perl6
13:52 harmil Morning all. Can't stay, off to work, but had to paste this error, which is nearly Zen: expected Any but got Perl6::Grammar
13:55 bjz joined #perl6
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14:00 ZoffixW joined #perl6
14:01 ZoffixW woolfy, ping
14:01 Sgeo_ joined #perl6
14:02 ZoffixW woolfy, alternative design for your brochure: http://temp.perl6.party/Per​l6-Brochure--Alt-Design.pdf
14:06 ZoffixW harmil, would be nice to know that code gave that error :/
14:13 hahainternet .tell ZoffixW alternate design looks superb
14:13 yoleaux hahainternet: I'll pass your message to ZoffixW.
14:14 Ptolemarch joined #perl6
14:14 hahainternet i think my only criticism would be that the bullet points need to be more brief and distinct, but it's still excellent
14:15 woolfy ZoffixW: thanks.  I'm at Damian's class.  If there are any more proposals, please send me an email, or use that system that Github offers (I', still learning).
14:15 heatsink joined #perl6
14:16 woolfy ZoffixW: ooh, beautiful design...  (grr, now I missed some deep explanation from Damian!)
14:20 woolfy ZoffixW++
14:20 ugexe ZoffixW: i'll replace that default path later today with a cli option. it was a left over from before %?RESOURCES when the config was actually stored in project root
14:21 lizmat Zoffix++
14:26 harmil ZoffixW, that error was the result of trying to do some introspection that's probably not valid. It definitely was not a bug report, I was just amused by the koan-like error.
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14:37 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
14:37 AlexDaniel Zoffix: cool, but is it still editable?
14:37 AlexDaniel Zoffix: for example, “Perl 6” will look much better with no break space
14:42 xdg joined #perl6
14:43 uniejo joined #perl6
14:47 mspo your lead in paragraphs seem wasted by attempting to explain the confusion relationship of of compilers and runtimes
14:47 mspo instead of language features or quotes or code samples or whatever
14:48 mspo " Any implementation that passes the official test suite
14:48 mspo can call itself “Perl 6”."
14:48 mspo who cares? :)
14:51 ssotka joined #perl6
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14:55 BrokenRobot AlexDaniel: good spot fixed.
14:56 BrokenRobot AlexDaniel: FSVO "editable". It's an InDesign file but I don't think I'm allowed to share the super expensive fonts.
14:56 BrokenRobot mspo: the copy isn't mine. I just did the design for it.
14:56 stevieb ``MoarVM offers a
14:56 stevieb wider support...'' ..."a" should be removed
14:57 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: ah okay, then I'll read it
15:03 [Coke] mst: while that's a reasonable assumption based on what I said, no.
15:04 [Coke] moritz: not sure it would help to rename it. I had to go through work to get hack whitelisted. Given that there's no web site for irc, probably won't work at all.... But I can hop through hack first, that's fine.
15:06 [Coke]_ joined #perl6
15:07 [Coke]_ moritz++ # one irc problem down.
15:07 andreoss joined #perl6
15:07 atweiden joined #perl6
15:07 [Coke]
15:08 grondilu Larry only did a Q&A @YAPC::NA or is there more?
15:08 grondilu I did watch Damian's keynote and it was very cool but I'd happily watch more.
15:11 TimToady just the Q&A
15:12 grondilu ok
15:13 kerframil joined #perl6
15:13 BooK watching pmichaud's yapc talk, and experimenting
15:13 BooK m: my $a = "a\c[COMBINING DOT ABOVE]\c[COMBINING DOT BELOW]"; say "$a {$a.chars} {$a.codes}"
15:13 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«ạ̇ 1 2␤»
15:13 BooK he said 3 codes in his talk
15:13 moritz [Coke]: maybe https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/SSH​_jump_host#Static_jumphost_list helps with going through hack
15:14 psch m: my $a = "a\c[COMBINING DOT ABOVE]\c[COMBINING DOT BELOW]"; say "$a {$a.chars} {$a.NFKD.codes}"
15:14 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«ạ̇ 1 3␤»
15:14 BrokenRobot m: my $a = "a\c[COMBINING DOT ABOVE]\c[COMBINING DOT BELOW]"; say $a.uninames
15:14 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«(LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DOT BELOW COMBINING DOT ABOVE)␤»
15:14 psch yeah, gets NFG'd
15:15 psch which often seems to mean "merge the first combining with the base codepoint"
15:15 psch but not always, because unicode vOv
15:15 BooK ok, I supposed something like that was happening
15:15 BooK what's .NFKD ?
15:16 ilmari BooK: Normal Form Kompatible Decomposed
15:17 BooK thanks
15:17 * psch was still looking that up
15:17 BrokenRobot .oO( "Kompatible"? )
15:17 psch Decomposition probably too then
15:17 psch also i think we'd write that which a Bindestrich
15:17 ilmari «Normalization Form Compatibility Decomposition»
15:17 BrokenRobot Oh "In NFKC and NFKD, a K is used to stand for compatibility"
15:17 psch Normal-Form Kompatible Decomposition, because unicode now is german :P
15:18 BrokenRobot "... to avoid confusion with the C standing for composition"
15:18 psch that definitely sounds like a unicode consortium decision though
15:18 nine Does a great job at avoiding confusion, doesn't it? ;)
15:18 BrokenRobot heh
15:20 [Coke] joined #perl6
15:21 BrokenRobot oops
15:21 BrokenRobot I accidentally killed camelia /o\
15:21 moritz how?
15:21 BrokenRobot sent `nqp: test`
15:22 psch (also, "Decomposition" is written with a "c" so it isn't confused with the K for "Kompatible" in german-NFKD)
15:22 camelia joined #perl6
15:22 psch BrokenRobot: only nqp-m works, nqp: tries parrot and jvm backends too
15:22 BrokenRobot ah
15:22 psch ...patches welcome vOv
15:23 moritz seems camelia recovered
15:23 moritz m: say 'first one will be slow though, as always'
15:23 andreoss m: use variables :D; my Str $x = Str; say $x;
15:23 moritz camelia needs a bit of time to get around its flood limit after the rejoin
15:24 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«first one will be slow though, as always␤»
15:24 [Coke] joined #perl6
15:24 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $x; expected Str:D but got Str (Str)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
15:25 andreoss m: use variables :D; \n my Str $x = Str; say $x;
15:25 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    n used at line 1␤␤»
15:25 [Coke] joined #perl6
15:25 BrokenRobot Wow you can do that?
15:25 BrokenRobot m: use variables :D; ␤ my Str $x = Str; say $x;
15:25 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $x; expected Str:D but got Str (Str)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 2␤␤»
15:25 BrokenRobot .u ␤
15:25 yoleaux U+2424 SYMBOL FOR NEWLINE [So] (␤)
15:26 BrokenRobot m: use variables :U; my Str $x = "blarg"
15:26 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $x; expected Str:U but got Str ("blarg")␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
15:26 BrokenRobot Amazing.
15:26 [Coke] psch: looks like my irssi file had accumulated stuff that shouldn't have been there and was missing other things. seems better now.
15:26 psch [Coke]: great :)
15:26 andreoss BrokenRobot: i wonder why that's not default
15:27 andreoss m: use parameters :D;
15:27 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤use parameters not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3use parameters :D7⏏5;␤»
15:27 psch m: use variables :D; my $x
15:27 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable definition of type Any:D (implicit :D by pragma) requires an initializer␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3use variables :D; my $x7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        constraint␤»
15:27 psch andreoss: ^^^ that's why
15:27 psch andreoss: it forces initializers, which usually isn't what anyone wants
15:28 andreoss my $x could be a special case
15:28 andreoss m: use variables :D; my $x = 1;
15:28 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: ( no output )
15:28 psch andreoss: but it can't be, because they type already means it needs an initializer
15:29 psch andreoss: because 'variables :D' means that *all* types are *always* :D
15:29 * BrokenRobot isn't a fan of "special cases"
15:31 _mg_ joined #perl6
15:31 psch and, well, :D essentially means "the thus typed variable needs an initializer"
15:31 andreoss m: sub undef { Any.new }; use variables :D; my $x = undef; $x = 1;
15:31 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unsupported use of undef as a value; in Perl 6 please use something more specific:␤   an undefined type object such as Any or Int,␤   :!defined as a matcher,␤        Any:U as a type constraint,␤    Nil as the abse…»
15:32 psch so if you say "let's use 'variables :D' to mean 'you have to use an initializer', but let's also add the special case for declarations without initializers to work", what exactly did you gain?
15:33 [Coke] moritz: can you install a curses c lib on irc?
15:33 BrokenRobot m: use variables :D; my @a of Int = ^10;
15:33 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Int not allowed here; variable list already declared with type Any:D␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3use variables :D; my @a of Int7⏏5 = ^10;␤    expecting any of:␤        constraint␤»
15:35 andreoss psch: this way i woudln't worry about covering cases when uninitilized objects occur
15:35 psch m: sub undef { Any.new }; use variables :D; my $x = undef(); $x = 1;
15:35 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: ( no output )
15:35 BrokenRobot m: use variables :D; my @a = ^10; @a[2]:delete; say @a
15:35 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«[0 1 (Any:D) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]␤»
15:35 BrokenRobot m: use variables :D; my @a = ^10; @a[2]:delete; say "@a[2]"
15:35 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value @a of type Any:D in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed.  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
15:36 BrokenRobot That's just obscene :)
15:36 psch m: say Any.new
15:36 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«Any.new␤»
15:36 andreoss `my Str $x` usually means `my Str:D`
15:36 psch andreoss: it really doesn't
15:36 moritz [Coke]: I've installed libncurses5 + headers
15:36 ocbtec joined #perl6
15:37 BrokenRobot andreoss: you proposal attempts to use an always-defined type as can't-assign-a-Nil-to-it
15:37 BrokenRobot Variables aren't the only thing on the plate. There are also attributes, named args, etc.
15:38 BrokenRobot The :D default would just get in the way all the time
15:38 andreoss what would be a common use case for putting Str as a type to a varible?
15:39 tony-o i really like that the gitlab api is on github
15:39 andreoss BrokenRobot: yep, within signatures :D even more desirable
15:39 andreoss as default
15:39 BrokenRobot andreoss: only for mandatory variables
15:40 BrokenRobot And since named args aren't you'd have to plaster :_ all over the place just to disable a feature that shouldn've been on by default anyway
15:40 andreoss okay
15:40 psch m: sub type-grep(@a, $type) { grep @a: { $_ ~~ $type } }; say type-grep([1, 2, "foo", "bar"], Str)
15:40 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«(foo bar)␤»
15:40 psch do that with :D vOv
15:41 BrokenRobot heh
15:41 psch i mean, my point is mostly that yes, there are cases where you probably want to only have :D
15:41 psch but there's also cases where you only want to have :U
15:41 psch so why should we make on of them the default if there's no conclusive indication for either of those two cases to be *vastly* more common?
15:41 psch *one
15:42 andreoss :_ is the default
15:42 psch andreoss: but you're proposing :D to be the default i thought?
15:43 andreoss it seems that :D as a default would make more sense
15:44 andreoss at leasts in signatures
15:44 BrokenRobot m: my $x := -> { my $s; Proxy.new(STORE => method (Str:D $v) {$s = $v;}, FETCH => method (){$s})}(); say $x; $x = "foo"; say $x'
15:44 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3d (){$s})}(); say $x; $x = "foo"; say $x7⏏5'␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤     …»
15:44 andreoss and as i see `use variables` doesn't affect signatures at all
15:45 smls psch: Most methods should ideally mark their invocant as :D, whereas very few would use :U. Just as an example.
15:45 BrokenRobot TTIAR where :S
15:45 psch BrokenRobot: the ' at the end
15:45 BrokenRobot Oh, the stray apostrophe
15:45 BrokenRobot m: my $x := -> { my $s; Proxy.new(STORE => method (Str:D $v) {$s = $v;}, FETCH => method (){$s})}(); say $x; $x = "foo"; say $x
15:45 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«(Any)␤foo␤»
15:45 psch smls: i don't think i agree
15:45 psch smls: especially self is very often desired as :U
15:46 smls Hm?
15:46 psch most of my OO code at least isn't dependent on having an initialized self
15:46 psch maybe because i'm bad at OO :P
15:47 psch anyway, yeah, it seems like 'variables :D' isn't even what would help there
15:48 smls psch: The default .new method doesn't use :U either, it uses :_
15:48 psch i do think it might be interested to see (1) 'parameters :D' or 'invocants :D' implement and (2) see how often they're used
15:48 psch s/rested/resting/
15:49 psch smls: right, i misspoke.  instead of "want :U" i should have written "not want :D"
15:49 psch ...paraphrased
15:49 smls ok
15:49 BrokenRobot Make it the default and count the number of complains from people whose code got broken :P
15:49 * BrokenRobot runs
15:49 psch BrokenRobot: yes, secretly do that the next release!
15:49 BrokenRobot :)
15:52 smls Heh. I used --profile on a nontrivial Perl 6 program, but I can't view the resulting HTML doc because its JavaScript brings both Firefox and Chrome to their knees.
15:52 [Coke] smls: ayup
15:52 smls It causes the browser to freeze, until after half a minute or so it offers to kill the script.
15:52 psch i think you can --profile directly to json, and there is a Qt profile viewer somewhere too
15:52 psch but that also has a size limit for the json it supports
15:52 moritz smls: iirc you can add --profile-filename=out.json or so
15:52 BrokenRobot m: use variables :D; sub foo (Str $ --> Str) {Str}; foo Str; &foo.signature.say
15:52 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«(Str --> Str)␤»
15:52 [Coke] I think there is a WIP to change how that works, but no ticket to go along with it describing the effort/branch
15:58 BrokenRobot m: my @a = ^10; my $x = item @a; my $y = @a; say $x; say $y
15:58 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«[0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]␤[0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]␤»
15:58 BrokenRobot .oO( what's item for... )
15:59 psch m: my @a = ^10; my @x = item @a; my @y = @a; say @x; say @y
15:59 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«[[0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]]␤[0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]␤»
16:00 BrokenRobot psch++
16:01 [Coke] ENODOCS: item
16:01 BrokenRobot Yeah, xdg just opened an issue..
16:01 hassoub joined #perl6
16:02 [Coke] ++
16:02 xdg o/
16:02 BrokenRobot \o\
16:05 redhands98100 AlexDaniel: thanks for the suggestion. It looks like glot.io allows system calls, and even has a writable fs.
16:05 AlexDaniel redhands98100: yea
16:07 [Coke] xdg: you were at the baltimore con, aye?
16:08 xdg yes
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16:27 dalek doc/tab-test: 3d70d4a | coke++ | t/tabs.t:
16:27 dalek doc/tab-test: Add (failing) tab test
16:27 dalek doc/tab-test: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3d70d4ae9d
16:29 [Coke] AlexDaniel: there's a pull request for you.
16:29 [Coke] https://github.com/perl6/doc/pull/627
16:29 AlexDaniel I see :)
16:31 mantovani joined #perl6
16:32 dalek doc/tab-test: 4432bf4 | coke++ | t/tabs.t:
16:32 dalek doc/tab-test: Skip more files
16:32 dalek doc/tab-test: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4432bf4ff6
16:36 travis-ci joined #perl6
16:36 travis-ci Doc build failed. Will "Coke" Coleda 'Add (failing) tab test'
16:36 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/139809102 https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3d70d4ae9d79
16:36 travis-ci left #perl6
16:38 [Coke] "how could that break the build, it..." oh. :)
16:39 BrokenRobot :)
16:40 travis-ci joined #perl6
16:40 travis-ci Doc build failed. Will "Coke" Coleda 'Skip more files'
16:40 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/139810465 https://github.com/perl6/doc/com​pare/3d70d4ae9d79...4432bf4ff64d
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16:47 dalek doc: 533a378 | (Josh Soref)++ | doc/HomePage.pod:
16:47 dalek doc: skip redirects for www.perl.org
16:47 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/533a378c11
16:49 Actualeyes joined #perl6
16:54 [Coke] anyone want to clean up the issue labels for docs?
16:55 dogbert17 o/ #perl6
16:57 dogbert17 moritz: "and I should install a newer perl6 on the server that builds the docs" Has that happened?
16:58 AlexDaniel [Coke]: I can give it a try
16:58 timeless AlexDaniel: ping
16:58 AlexDaniel here! HERE! I'm here! :)
16:58 timeless I'm about to put up  a  PR for the fun bits :)
16:58 timeless but ... before that
16:58 AlexDaniel yeaah!
16:58 timeless https://doc.perl6.org/language/regexe​s#Greedy_versus_frugal_quantifiers:_?
16:58 timeless do you think someone could come up w/ a better example?
16:59 timeless err
16:59 timeless https://doc.perl6.org/language/re​gexes#Preventing_backtracking:_:
16:59 timeless it's pretty hard for me to see a reason anyone would want to write /a .*: aba/
16:59 AlexDaniel timeless: you mean that example could be better?
17:00 timeless yeah
17:00 timeless it also woudl help if `backtracking` was defined in the page
17:00 timeless it's used here ("prevent backtracking") and in "rachet" ("backtracking is costly")
17:00 timeless it /looks/ like ratchet has a definition of it buried near the beginning
17:01 timeless > Without this adverb, parts of a regex will try different ways to match a string in order to make it possible for other parts of the regex to match. For example in 'abc' ~~ /\w+ ./, the \w+ first eats up the whole string, abc but then the . fails. Thus \w+ gives up a character, matching only ab, and the . can successfully match the string c. This process of
17:01 timeless giving up characters (or in the case of alternations, trying a different branch) is known as backtracking.
17:01 timeless (i know what it is, but really, this page should have a section for it, and link to it...)
17:01 timeless and the example should show a case where it makes sense...
17:02 timeless "why would anyone want to write /a .*: aba/ ?"
17:02 AlexDaniel timeless: ok https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/628
17:03 timeless oh, wow. yeah.
17:03 timeless "oops"
17:03 timeless ok, my `make html..` ran, now to run the linkchecker
17:04 AlexDaniel timeless: ok https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/629
17:05 AlexDaniel yeah, .*: is stupid…
17:05 timeless https://github.com/jsoref/perl6-doc/commit​/f2ff9b77b2cd361e9697c09475c9b219edfeda85
17:06 timeless if you want to look before i create the pr
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17:06 timeless i understand the idea of "i want a fast match or nothing"
17:06 timeless but the example is basically "i really really want nothing almost always"
17:07 timeless (and i'm not sure about the `almost`)
17:07 timeless also, is there a p5 to p6 regexp converter?
17:07 timotimo i only know of :P5
17:08 timotimo dunno if Blue_Tiger does any regex munging
17:08 timeless timotimo: that lets you use a p5 regexp in p6, right?
17:08 timeless that's not what i want
17:08 BrokenRobot timeless: were you the person hacking on converting special chars to words on the doc site? How is that going?
17:08 timotimo yup
17:08 timeless BrokenRobot: see github url above
17:08 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: link there ↑
17:08 * timeless is running the link checker now
17:08 BrokenRobot Oh. what a coincidence.
17:09 timeless i finally got it somewhere reasonable last night, and fell asleep
17:09 AlexDaniel langle rangle… lbracket rbracket… not sure if I like that
17:09 timeless fwiw, i can't use `lt` and `gt`
17:09 timeless because https://doc.perl6.org/routine/gt
17:10 AlexDaniel what about left-bracket ?
17:10 _mg_ joined #perl6
17:10 timeless ambiguous since i'm currently using `-` as my concat char
17:10 timeless it's possible to adjust by shifting the concat char
17:10 timeless or just using `leftbracket`
17:10 AlexDaniel leftbracket?
17:10 timeless i can live w/ that
17:11 timeless it's fairly verbose, which is something i was hoping to avoid
17:11 timeless but, i won't die over it
17:11 timeless (the link checker isn't fast, i should have had it run overnight, but i was on the wrong commit, so it checked something useless)
17:11 timeless ARG
17:11 timeless http://localhost:3000/languag​e/5to6-dash-dash-dash-perlop        -> broken
17:11 timeless right, so what i have right now isn't good enough
17:12 timeless so...
17:12 BrokenRobot There's no need to escape the dash, is there?
17:12 timeless how attached to the `-` in `5to6-*` are we?
17:12 timeless BrokenRobot: there is... sorta
17:12 timeless it's pretty easy to end up w/ ambiguous cases, i should have maintained a list
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17:13 BrokenRobot timeless: ambiguous how?
17:15 * timeless eyes html/days-in-month.html and html/days-dash-in-dash-month.html
17:15 timeless arg
17:15 * timeless makes clean
17:16 AlexDaniel timeless: to me it looks like we should not escape dashes. It's OK to have ambiguous cases as long as we are not running into conflicts
17:16 BrokenRobot +1
17:17 timeless i'm pretty sure i ran into a conflict
17:17 timeless i need to find it
17:17 timeless part of the problem is that when you start glomming words together, it's hard to find boundaries
17:17 timeless especially if i have to move to `leftbracket`
17:17 timeless `leftbracketdollardollar`?
17:18 BrokenRobot Well, same there, why is < need escaping?
17:18 BrokenRobot https://docs.perl6.org/routine/%3C
17:18 timeless hard to search for
17:18 BrokenRobot and "leftbracket" isn't? :)
17:18 timeless and hard to read
17:19 AlexDaniel not like someone is going to edit the url by hand? Hmm…
17:19 timeless well, for one, how does anyone know what `%3c` is
17:19 BrokenRobot By knowing percent encoding?
17:19 timeless do most people know percent encoding?
17:19 BrokenRobot Why do they need to know what it is in the first place?
17:20 timeless people do read and write urls
17:20 timeless they also will make links to documents from outside your tool
17:20 AlexDaniel well my browser shows <
17:20 timeless my browser doesn't even escape `<` in the urlbar
17:20 BrokenRobot You can use https://docs.perl6.org/routine/< if you're feeling adventurous
17:20 timeless anyway, lemme find the example
17:20 timeless it's somewhere
17:21 * timeless is still waiting for a fresh build
17:21 timeless i think `make html*` needs to do a `make somewhatclean`
17:21 timeless specifically, it should probably empty html/*.html
17:21 ilmari make cleanish?
17:22 timeless ilmari: cleanhtml:
17:22 timeless rm -rf html/*.html html/.*.html html/routine/ html/type/ html/op/ html/language/ html/syntax/
17:22 timeless cleanimages:
17:22 timeless rm -rf html/images/type-graph*
17:22 timeless cleansearch:
17:22 timeless rm html/js/search.js
17:22 timeless clean:
17:22 timeless er
17:22 timeless clean: cleanhtml cleanimages cleansearch
17:23 timeless thoughts?
17:23 timeless specifically, i don't use `make clean` because it deletes the images which take even longer to rebuild
17:25 timeless grr
17:26 timeless (it feels like i'm using the wrong commit or broke it somehow)
17:26 * timeless sighs
17:31 mst perhas the images could be moved to a realclean target?
17:32 timeless (i'm not actually sure that the system properly doesn't rebuild images, but... it really would be nice if i didn't have to think about them)
17:34 timeless ok, so... i think the reason i wanted `dash` is because it's painful to search for `-` using google
17:35 BrokenRobot :/
17:36 BrokenRobot IMO you're overthinking this. You want to stuff 'dash' all over the place on an off chance some user will know to search for word 'dash' instead of the hyphen for... what? the minus operator?
17:37 timotimo i think it's helpful to have all kinds of synonyms in the search DB
17:37 BrokenRobot 5to6-dash-dash-dash-perlop is dumb
17:38 BrokenRobot timotimo: what search DB? You mean the generated index on the docs site?
17:38 timotimo yeah
17:38 timotimo what is timeless suggesting?
17:38 timotimo i didn't look at the branch yet
17:38 BrokenRobot timotimo: google search
17:38 timeless (the branch is broken, i'm not sure how)
17:38 psch isn't it more like "replace ops in links with text for google indexing"?
17:39 * timeless is on the phone
17:39 BrokenRobot The original goal of this work was to fix 404s that exist due to some operators being special characters that are treated specially by the OS or Apache, like '/' or anything that starts with '.'
17:39 AlexDaniel which is something we *really* need
17:39 psch right, but isn't there an apache directive for that?
17:40 psch or has that been decided to be a bad idea for reasons?
17:40 timeless no directive will fix `/`
17:40 timeless not really
17:40 BrokenRobot psch: yes, there is, but since the directive doesn't fix all the cases, there's no point in turning it off
17:40 timeless it isn't meaningful to distinguish
17:40 psch oh, right, / remains troublesome
17:41 mst there is a directive that will make %2F ish work
17:41 mst but that's not honestly going to help, I don't think
17:41 fhorck joined #perl6
17:41 psch http://httpd.apache.org/docs/curren​t/mod/core.html#allowencodedslashes makes it seem like it could just wreck stuff on a different layer
17:41 BrokenRobot AllowEncodedSlashes, but it doesn't help since the file isn't there.
17:42 timeless so, in an hour or so, i'll try removing the dash escaping
17:42 psch well, it's not like i really know apache vOv
17:42 timeless and getting the thing to actually run
17:42 timeless and resync my branch
17:42 BrokenRobot Nah, it doesn't wreck stuff, unless you have shitty scripts :)
17:42 timeless and re-run the link checker
17:42 AlexDaniel timeless++
17:42 * timeless returns to phone call
17:43 psch maybe descriptive links (or whatever the "everything is a path in our link, no get params" craze is called) were a bad idea all along :P
17:46 pmurias joined #perl6
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17:46 timotimo can we discover if perl6 (the repl) is being run under RLWRAP and not output "you want to install readline, linenoise, or use rlwrap" thing
17:47 timeless heh
17:47 timotimo why did i allcaps that
17:47 timeless i think i hit something like thtat
17:47 timotimo perhaps because i was wondering if it perhaps sets an env var or something
17:50 AlexDaniel psch: it's called static website :)
17:51 timotimo instead of the names of things we should just use UUIDs
17:51 timotimo that'll also let us refer to older versions with permalinks
17:52 tony-o what link checker did you end up with timeless ?
17:52 dalek snake: fbc5687 | (Pawel Murias)++ | t/more-literals.t:
17:52 dalek snake: Test floating point literals.
17:52 dalek snake: review: https://github.com/arnshol​t/snake/commit/fbc56870f3
17:52 dalek snake: 4895012 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/Snake/Grammar.nqp:
17:52 dalek snake: Forbid using keywords as identifier (None remains to be turned into a readonly constant).
17:52 dalek snake: review: https://github.com/arnshol​t/snake/commit/4895012349
17:52 dalek snake: bcd5ed4 | (Pawel Murias)++ | / (3 files):
17:52 dalek snake: :Other_ID_Start and :Other_ID_Continue is supported by nqp-m, use them to parse identifiers more correctly
17:52 dalek snake: review: https://github.com/arnshol​t/snake/commit/bcd5ed46f1
17:52 psch AlexDaniel: but it's clearly not if "< BrokenRobot> [...] the file isn't there.", is it?
17:52 psch AlexDaniel: or is the problem not actually in apache but in the file system?
17:52 timeless More documentation at: http://validator.w3.org/docs/checklink.html
17:52 psch 'cause i've really not looked too closely at it :)
17:52 BrokenRobot psch: right htmlify.p6 doesn't create /.html
17:53 hoelzro|phone joined #perl6
17:53 BrokenRobot / is invalid in paths isn't it?
17:53 AlexDaniel it's valid in paths :)
17:53 hoelzro|phone timotimo: I want to be able to do that
17:53 AlexDaniel it just means something different
17:53 BrokenRobot In filanmes that is
17:54 hoelzro|phone perhaps repl. pm can look at its ppid or something
17:54 timotimo hey rob!
17:54 timotimo you're quick :D
17:54 hoelzro|phone or maybe do some voodoo with /proc/self/fd/0
17:54 hoelzro|phone Hi Timo!
17:54 timotimo that's not portable :P
17:55 timotimo does rlwrap accept some escape sequences perhaps?
17:55 hoelzro|phone true, true - I figure start with something that works and then make it portable
17:55 timotimo :)
17:55 hoelzro|phone I don't know! I'll look into it
17:56 timotimo i remember a time where i was going through a huge list of ansi escape sequences that xterm and friends support and being very wowed
17:56 hoelzro|phone we could probably check if stdin is a terminal or not
17:56 timotimo isatty, eh?
17:56 hoelzro|phone hehe
17:56 hoelzro|phone yeah
17:56 hoelzro|phone the xterm escape sequence list is both aw{esome,ful}
17:57 timotimo :3
17:57 timotimo you can ask xterm to give you a checksum of screen regions
17:57 timotimo so you can see if, for example, ssh has spammed some errors over your screen since last you refreshed
17:58 hoelzro|phone wow, really? til
17:58 hoelzro|phone I'm about to duck into an appointment - we can discuss more in a bit
17:58 timotimo sure
17:59 timotimo it crashed yet again, but i'm sure this time it'll go through! (afl-fuzz, that is)
18:00 timotimo m: say ?""
18:00 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«False␤»
18:00 timotimo aaah
18:02 kurahaupo joined #perl6
18:05 sufrostico joined #perl6
18:06 * lizmat pictures timotimo being attacked by his cat
18:06 * timotimo only ever gets cuddle-attacked by the cats :3
18:08 pmichaud joined #perl6
18:08 pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6
18:08 BrokenRobot \o\
18:08 BrokenRobot Why does my client send \o\ any time I type \o
18:08 BrokenRobot \o
18:09 BrokenRobot Oh.. maybe it's just a frequent case of fat fingers >_<
18:09 lizmat o//
18:09 pmichaud I guess \o\ is a slanted TIE fighter.
18:09 pmichaud or an example of "wave your hands in the air like you just don't care"  :)
18:09 pmichaud \o\  /o/   \o\  \o/
18:10 mantovani he is trying to stop you to get in his company like a security guard, "\o\"
18:11 sno joined #perl6
18:12 pmurias_ joined #perl6
18:12 BrokenRobot "Plain blocks are also available for use as closures, but do not take an implicit $ argument like in Perl 6!"
18:12 BrokenRobot I don't get it. How do blocks take $_ as implicit argument?
18:12 lizmat m: my $b = { say $_ }; $b(42)
18:12 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«42␤»
18:13 lizmat m: my $b = { say $^a }; $b(42)
18:13 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«42␤»
18:13 BrokenRobot m: my $b = -> { say $_ }; $b(42)
18:13 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
18:13 BrokenRobot lizmat++
18:13 cognominal joined #perl6
18:13 lizmat a block without a sig that (implicitely) specify $_ create the -> $_ sig
18:14 timotimo pmichaud: seeing your perl6 for beginners recording right now; looking good :)
18:15 [Coke] AlexDaniel: I was thinking we could have a small chat about what we want to see there first, so we don't end up with someone reworking things and people getting grumpy
18:15 AlexDaniel [Coke]: sure
18:16 pmichaud timotimo: thanks!
18:16 domidumont joined #perl6
18:16 pmichaud I feel like I should've given a talk that "pushed the boundaries of p6" again.  :)
18:16 pmichaud but that would've required... actually making a new talk.  :)
18:16 timotimo also, i like your voice and way of speaking just in general :3
18:17 pmichaud I'm trying to decide when my next p6 event will be.
18:17 pmichaud I'd rather not wait until next year's yapc::na if I can find something sooner.
18:18 Xliff <-o->   # Tie bomber
18:18 Xliff s/Tie/TIE/
18:18 pmichaud ooooh, alpine perl workshop :)
18:18 pmichaud that's potentially an even better weekend for me than yapc::eu
18:19 [Coke] just randomly show up in albany, I can get like 5 people to a talk or something. :)
18:19 AlexDaniel [Coke]: I think that a good way to start is to get rid of ones that are not being used. For example, "ruled *" was probably a great idea but nobody is going to use these
18:19 pmichaud [Coke]: I liked kid51++'s description of "an emergency perl mongers social meeting" in response to people showing up in nyc  :)
18:20 timotimo if it's not planned, but it happens anyway, it's clearly emergent
18:21 pmichaud I only got to stay for the first half of TheDamian's "Functional Programming in Perl" tutorial today... it's excellent.
18:25 AlexDaniel [Coke]: but the question is what are we trying to achieve with these labels :) The most useful out of all is probably “needs writing”, those who want to write some text for docs can just filter by this label and that's it. “needs implementing” and “search” are OK too
18:26 AlexDaniel everything else is weird
18:27 BrokenRobot "easy" would be good too. Something for those who know very little Perl 6 to do.
18:27 AlexDaniel maybe we should add “low-hanging fruit” and “CSS”
18:27 BrokenRobot "CSS"?
18:27 moritz +1
18:27 moritz "layout" maybe
18:27 moritz though it doesn't happen that often
18:28 AlexDaniel it does not happen very often because I don't want to pollute the issue list with such things
18:28 AlexDaniel if I had CSS label then I guess that I'd create some issues
18:30 timeless +    # sort prorams index by file name to allow author control of order
18:30 * timeless sighs
18:30 AlexDaniel yeah we should probably fix that
18:30 moritz anyway, I'm all in favor of cleanup up the issue labels; I found them to be mostly not actionable
18:32 pmichaud moritz: +1
18:37 eugen joined #perl6
18:37 pmichaud afk:  gate, airplane boarding, flight, more
18:38 BrokenRobot flighr?
18:38 BrokenRobot pmichaud / tbrowder Was there progress on the table pod bug?
18:38 BrokenRobot Just wondering whether I should continue my work or you guys will sort it out
18:40 timeless AlexDaniel: fwiw, some of the pods recently added have trailing whitespace...
18:40 AlexDaniel timeless: I know. We need a test for that
18:40 AlexDaniel or maybe not
18:41 AlexDaniel maybe I can just clean it up once in a while…
18:41 BrokenRobot Have the build script clean it?
18:41 BrokenRobot Same goes for tabs too probably
18:41 AlexDaniel have the build script modify source files? Uhh…
18:42 BrokenRobot Oh
18:42 BrokenRobot OK :)
18:42 timeless there could be a script which could do the cleanup
18:42 timeless so other people could run it
18:42 timeless instead of just a linter that screams "you've got a trailing space here ->"
18:42 jjido joined #perl6
18:42 BrokenRobot How do git hooks work? Is it possible to set them up to automatically do this stuff on push/merge/GitHub on-site edit?
18:43 timeless not well
18:43 BrokenRobot Ah :(
18:43 timeless it's easier for github side to reject things
18:43 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: yeah! We can reject commits that have trailing whitespace! Yaaay…
18:43 pmichaud BrokenRobot: I haven't had a chance to look further on the table pod bug... but it's definitely on my "to-do" list.
18:43 pmichaud I won't get to it until tonight, tomorrow night, or sunday night.
18:44 BrokenRobot pmichaud: alright. I just didn't want this to slip through the cracks :)
18:44 pmichaud (trailing whitespace)  trailing ws never bothered me much... periodic cleaning would be fine with me.
18:44 BrokenRobot And I tbrowder said they will work with you on it, but now I heard you're boarding a flight :)
18:44 BrokenRobot s/I //;
18:45 pmichaud yeah, I'm about to board a flight.  But I just find out that a long-ago colleague of mine is passing through the same airport at this very moment, so I'm waiting to see if we'll be able to cross paths.  :)
18:45 pmichaud *found out
18:46 BrokenRobot Trailing ws is annoying the moment you get someone with an editor that auto-strips it... And you get a commit that appears to change many lines even though that's just WS.
18:46 pmichaud we're trying to determine if we're in the same terminal :)
18:46 timeless pmichaud: i once met my sister @jfk
18:46 BrokenRobot And personally, in those cases I'd revert my commit, disable trailing ws trimming feature and recomming (when I'm committing to other projects), so IMO it's nice to get rid of it.
18:47 timeless she was inbound and i was outbound (we effectively traded locations)
18:47 timeless it's pretty neat when it works
18:48 pmichaud I'd say that on around 20% of my air travels I end up unexpectedly crossing paths with someone I know at an airport.
18:48 pmichaud at least for the past 4-5 years.
18:49 FROGGS joined #perl6
18:50 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: sure-sure. The thing is, one month ago I removed trailing whitespace everywhere in the docs. Today there are 19 files with trailing whitespace.
18:51 timeless AlexDaniel: i'd be tempted to have a hook for `new files`
18:51 pmichaud for me, I wouldn't have my editor auto-strip ws, but I'd have a shortcut mapping that does it for me.  :)
18:51 AlexDaniel pmichaud: yep, that's what I do
18:52 pmichaud anyway, I do have to head to the gate.... happy trails
18:52 BrokenRobot \o
18:52 moritz trailing ws isn't a big deal IMHO. Just ignore it.
18:53 BrokenRobot We should open an issue and womble this :P
18:55 dalek doc: 2c1388c | (Josh Soref)++ | htmlify.p6:
18:55 dalek doc: spelling: program
18:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2c1388c11a
18:55 * timeless returns to trying to flip pancakes properly
18:55 Xliff Yeek@
18:56 Xliff s/\@/!/
18:56 Xliff https://developer.github.com/v3/​activity/events/types/#pushevent
18:56 BrokenRobot timeless: it's all in the wrist action ;)
18:56 timeless BrokenRobot: as timeless, i must say it's all in the timing
18:56 timeless flip too early and it falls apart
18:56 BrokenRobot lol timeless++
18:56 timeless too late and it sticks
18:56 BrokenRobot That sounds like you need a better frying pan :P
18:57 timeless the range is gas, and i'm still very inexperienced :/
18:57 timeless previous batches were much better
18:57 BrokenRobot :)
18:57 * timeless hasn't quite gotten the temperature right, nor the batter consistency... this time it didn't even pour properly
18:57 [Coke] AlexDaniel: catching up, all that seemed reasonable.
18:58 webstrand joined #perl6
18:58 timeless AlexDaniel: so, on `make clean`
18:58 timeless how opposed are people to me splitting it along the lines i described a few hours ago?
18:58 BrokenRobot I never use it, so I'm all for it :D
19:00 [Coke] timeless: checking.
19:00 timeless https://www.irccloud.com/pas​tebin/Pth2PCPZ/Makefile.diff
19:00 timeless there are tabs in the real commit fwiw
19:01 Xliff What does everyone have against hard tabs? Is it the tab width thing?
19:01 timeless Xliff: in Makefile-s you need tabs :)
19:01 [Coke] if you split it up so clean does the same thing, but there's also a separate target you can run to not clean images, that's fine with me.
19:01 timeless so i'm just saying "i'm not breaking it"
19:01 [Coke] timeless: pastebin is blocked here.
19:02 BrokenRobot Xliff: yeah, pretty much.
19:02 timeless [Coke]: seriously?
19:02 dalek doc: 71f3168 | (Josh Soref)++ | Makefile:
19:02 dalek doc: split clean into clean-html clean-images clean-search
19:02 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/71f3168df8
19:02 BrokenRobot [Coke]:
19:02 BrokenRobot [Coke]: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet​/f5d071b9e2aefb1b8069f701cd7a2123
19:02 Xliff BrokenRobot, most (modern) GUI editors make that configurable, so that seems like a moot point now.
19:03 BrokenRobot Xliff: yeah, but you aren't always viewing the file in "modern GUI editor"
19:03 Xliff kk
19:03 * timeless is usually using `cat` or `web browser`
19:04 [Coke] BrokenRobot: I'd recommend 'clean' 'clean-html' and 'clean-other'
19:04 [Coke] but have no real problem with your version
19:04 BrokenRobot timeless: ^
19:04 timeless [Coke]: you can fix it, it's in git :)
19:04 timeless but really, images and search are quite different
19:04 AlexDaniel timeless: what is “lgs”?
19:05 timeless i've wanted to play w/ search and not have anything to do w/ images
19:05 timeless AlexDaniel: context?
19:05 AlexDaniel ahhh
19:05 AlexDaniel nvm
19:05 timeless you have my attention, what did you see? :o
19:05 [Coke] timeless: if we had a real makefile, we wouldn't really need clean.
19:06 [Coke] (as much)
19:06 BrokenRobot timeless: the paths in your commit
19:06 [Coke] you could change the one thing you wanted, and just regen the 2 or 3 impacted files.
19:06 BrokenRobot timeless: there's html/lgs and html/lg/
19:06 colomon joined #perl6
19:07 [Coke] AlexDaniel: maybe "needs fixing" is better as "needs coding"
19:07 timeless BrokenRobot: where where?
19:07 redhands98101 joined #perl6
19:07 * timeless is clearly blind :(
19:07 AlexDaniel [Coke]: then what is “needs implementing”?
19:08 timeless oh
19:08 * timeless shrugs
19:08 timeless the makefile had them already
19:08 timeless i was only splitting things
19:08 timeless i have no opinion about pre-existing conditions :)
19:08 [Coke] AlexDaniel: I have no idea what the difference is between "needs fixing" and "needs implementing"
19:08 [Coke] (one of the things I was hoping we'd clean up :)
19:09 timeless oh
19:10 AlexDaniel [Coke]: “needs coding” sounds good.
19:10 timeless i think that's my terminal's pager eating letters
19:10 timeless my terminal is X wide, and those lines are really wide, so the pager did something funny
19:11 timeless sorry :/
19:11 AlexDaniel [Coke]: or is it needed at all? Any issue that is not 「needs writing」 is probably 「needs coding」
19:11 [Coke] AlexDaniel: true, that's best.
19:12 FROGGS Xliff: I've merges your PR https://github.com/FROGGS/​p6-XML-LibXML/pull/1/files as https://github.com/FROGGS/p6-XML-LibXML/comm​it/0dc9a78a1b99f9d55fb8e9e54a86129adac26a28
19:12 yoleaux 21 Jun 2016 20:38Z <Xliff> FROGGS: Do you want to worry about the errors in t/06elements.t after the merge?
19:12 addison joined #perl6
19:13 AlexDaniel you can also use -label:"needs writing" if you don't want to see issues labeled as 「needs writing」
19:14 hoelzro|phone joined #perl6
19:15 setty1 joined #perl6
19:15 AlexDaniel ha, am I stupid or what https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/570 https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/622
19:15 mst I dunno, the new one's definitely a better ticket
19:16 BrokenRobot lol, yeah, looks like you've learned to use fancy pants github features :P
19:16 BrokenRobot So if I click those checkboxes, they get checked for everyone or just me?
19:16 AlexDaniel I knew about this feature for some time
19:16 AlexDaniel for everyone
19:17 BrokenRobot neast
19:17 BrokenRobot *neat
19:17 timeless AlexDaniel: um, there's no explanation of what being checked mens
19:17 timeless s/mens/means/
19:17 FROGGS you can also but that in markdown files, and it will commit if when you click
19:18 BrokenRobot :o
19:18 timeless is it `should be removed` or `should be added`?
19:18 AlexDaniel timeless: both
19:18 AlexDaniel timeless: means that there is no issue with this term anymore
19:19 timeless could you adjust the description to indicate "checked items have been resolved" ?
19:20 timeless (or something like that)
19:20 araujo_ joined #perl6
19:21 hoelzro o/ #perl6
19:21 BrokenRobot timeless: you can make the edit yourself :)
19:21 BrokenRobot One of the features I hate about GitHub
19:21 * timeless is so used to not being on teams
19:22 mantovani joined #perl6
19:22 dalek doc: 9fab598 | (David H. Adler)++ | WANTED:
19:22 dalek doc: Added duckmap and deepmap to WANTED: functions
19:22 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9fab598a21
19:22 dalek doc: a701520 | (David H. Adler)++ | / (3 files):
19:22 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc
19:22 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a7015205d8
19:22 AlexDaniel yeah, everyone please feel welcome to edit my issues/comments/whatever
19:23 timeless BrokenRobot: what i hate is i tried to edit it
19:23 timeless and github ate my edits saying someone else was touching it
19:23 AlexDaniel haha
19:23 BrokenRobot :)
19:24 timeless this is why i don't like `edit` support
19:24 timeless if it isn't google docs (or ether/pirate-pad), it isn't something i want to touch
19:24 timeless the dog-of-a-webservice that eats my homework is not my friend
19:24 BrokenRobot They actually added the "edited" indicator now. Looks like my bitching to GitHub about how the feature could be abused did have some effect \o/
19:25 timeless can i see this history of a thing?
19:25 timeless i can't figure out what happened
19:25 dalek doc: 39a5d14 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Nil.pod:
19:25 dalek doc: Method new was defined twice
19:25 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/39a5d14482
19:26 BrokenRobot timeless: edit history? Nope
19:26 timeless ...
19:26 BrokenRobot hey, hosting data isn't cheap :P
19:27 BrokenRobot This ain't Facebook! :P
19:27 kerframil joined #perl6
19:28 geekosaur you might think they'd store issues in git :p
19:29 hoelzro timotimo: it turns out rlwrap makes a pty for its child =/
19:30 Xliff FROGGS, \o/
19:30 BrokenRobot It used to be worse: https://github.com/benkasmin​bullock/json-create/issues/2
19:30 BrokenRobot There wasn't actually any harrasment, I just pointed out the broken code, but the dude couldn't handle it.
19:31 FROGGS Xliff: :o)
19:31 BrokenRobot Note how it doesn't say "edited" anywhere. He could've well made it look like I was spouting racist/sexist remark and I wouldn't even get a notification from GitHub
19:31 khw joined #perl6
19:31 Xliff FROGGS: Like I said in my email, the next step is figuring out why the tests are failing. I feel that should be done before finishing the rest of 06elements.t
19:32 FROGGS yes, makes sense of course
19:32 FROGGS though if you feel like doing other bits first, go ahead
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19:33 Xliff FROGGS, LOL! Maybe a test that's a little less... ambitious, maybe?
19:33 Xliff =o)
19:33 Xliff Still, I do wanna circle back to that.
19:33 Xliff BrokenRobot, yeah. I see your point.
19:34 Xliff What did you actually say, if you don't mind me asking?
19:35 BrokenRobot Xliff: I believe that one was about inconsistent stringification of objects where sometiems it uses the HASH portion and sometimes it dies
19:35 timeless bugzilla has a complete* changelog
19:35 timeless which makes this much better
19:35 timeless you can review things (unless the database admin hacks it)
19:36 FROGGS Xliff: all I wanna say is: optimize for fun :o)
19:36 jjido joined #perl6
19:36 timeless (there's an exception which is that keywords can be renamed, in which case you won't see interim names and may have time following their history)
19:36 BrokenRobot Xliff: I basically opened three valid technical issues and wrote a negative review of the module and he didn't like the review (I edited it later to log what happened: http://cpanratings.perl.org/dist/JSON-Create#12286 )
19:37 Xliff FROGGS: Roger! Wilco!
19:39 BrokenRobot Oh wow... He even packaged an entire "response" file with his distro *smh* https://metacpan.org/pod/distributi​on/JSON-Create/review-response.pod
19:39 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: have you seen opencart discussions?
19:39 BrokenRobot AlexDaniel: don't even know what opencart is :)
19:40 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: well, it's something that will make you care less about this situation
19:40 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: because there's probably no way it could get worse…
19:40 Xliff BrokenRobot, Yow! I can see how someone thin skinned would respond in a negative manner to that.
19:41 Xliff Of course, all of these things are valid technical critiques.
19:41 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: stuff like https://github.com/opencart/opencart/issues/1286
19:41 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: not sure if you can find the original log
19:42 Xliff If you are going to put out a module, you have to be prepared to respond to those in the most gracious manner possible...because they might be right!
19:42 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: ah, there it is https://gist.github.com/uppfinnarn/9956023
19:43 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: “fuck off!” – summarizes opencart development
19:43 BrokenRobot wow :D
19:45 Xliff wooooow
19:46 Xliff Welcome to the Internet. Please realize that your good (or bad) behavior can follow you for a long time.
19:47 geekosaur heh
19:47 tony-o it doesn't need to, though.  you can just change your name
19:48 * geekosaur remembering an article from last year about teens on facebook discovering the hard way that potential employers do web searches on job applicants
19:48 Xliff tony-o, You need to do more than that... really.
19:48 tony-o Xliff: true, but only if you do more than trash talk
19:48 tony-o when i interview people i look for them on FB and twitter first
19:49 Xliff You'd be surprised how much hot water trouble trash talk will get you, in certain circles.
19:49 tony-o i found one guy that tweeted to pornstars all day
19:49 Xliff I maintain an account on neither.
19:49 tony-o you're missing nothing
19:50 Xliff Seriously... I've always had this thing about "Twitter".... how a service with the root word "twit" got so popular I just don't know.
19:50 Xliff And no... the bird does not change the meaning.
19:52 Xliff Some rich hacker somewhere is having a huge laugh at everone else's expense.
19:54 tony-o i imagine he isn't the only one
19:56 AlexDaniel “its not an XSS Vulnerability until i confirm it is!” ;)
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20:03 AlexDaniel Zoffix: “a turd floating in the ocean” ahahahaha
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20:07 masak Xliff: linguistic point of order: "twit" and "twitter" seem to have different etymologies, and do not share a root word.
20:07 ZoffixMobile joined #perl6
20:07 timeless masak++
20:07 ZoffixMobile AlexDaniel, where is that from?
20:07 AlexDaniel ZoffixMobile: well, the review claims that you said that
20:08 AlexDaniel I mean, respone to your review
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20:09 ZoffixMobile Ah, right. Yeah, at first I compared realease of yet another shitty json module to a turd in the ocean
20:10 Ptolemarch TimToady: It appears that the answer to my question is: Rather than `map { ... }, 1...99`, I needed `map { ... }, [1...99]`
20:10 AlexDaniel it's very poetic, I love that
20:10 ZoffixMobile :)
20:10 AlexDaniel [Coke]: anyway, so what's the plan?
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20:11 tony-o ZoffixMobile: where is that ?
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20:13 ZoffixMobile tony-o, in Perl 5 land. Some guy last year didn't like my review. He now packages a "response" with their distro: https://metacpan.org/pod/distributi​on/JSON-Create/review-response.pod
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20:15 mst ZoffixMobile: wow, that's almost as much fun as the stuff on e.g. http://p3rl.org/AnyEvent::Impl::POE
20:16 mst AlexDaniel: I remember somebody saying "my code doesn't have a vulnerability until I confirm it does" on #perl
20:16 mst AlexDaniel: somebody wrote a cron job that exploited it so all it displayed was the IRC log where we explained how to fix it
20:16 AlexDaniel :D
20:17 tony-o lol
20:17 mst later, he evaded his ban, apparently for the sole purpose of calling me a faggot
20:17 jjido joined #perl6
20:17 tony-o what a winner
20:17 mst I don't think a fresh kickban with a message of "yeah, well, I suck cock better than you write perl" was quite what he expected
20:17 ZoffixMobile rofl
20:17 tony-o ahhaha
20:17 mst (apologies for the language involved in telling that story)
20:18 mst (I'd already hit enter when it occurred to me people might care)
20:18 AlexDaniel psch: you gonna love that: http://www.unicode.org/emoji/ch​arts/emoji-released.html#1f937
20:22 tony-o wow ZoffixMobile , Ben Bullock has a thing for you
20:22 ZoffixMobile :)
20:25 TimToady Ptolemarch: oh, yeah, ... is looser than comma, while .. is tighter
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21:03 Xliff masak: Point taken. However my irrational reasoning still exists. Allow me to reword: How a site with the word "twit" in it got so popular is beyond me.
21:11 * Zoffix never heard 'twit' used as an insult.
21:12 AlexDaniel yea. That's kinda non-poetic
21:12 timotimo i've heard it before
21:12 timotimo it's quite british, i think
21:12 lizmat as is twat  :-)
21:12 timotimo or am i confusing it with twat?
21:13 mst timotimo: no
21:13 mst Xliff: 'twitter' was a word in its own right beforehand
21:13 mst 'the twittering of the dawn chorus' etc.
21:13 timotimo my ssh connection is super crazzy right now
21:14 timotimo oh! incredible! all three AFZ sessions are running at the same time now!
21:14 mst 'twit' tends to indicate 'a bit dim' whereas twat indicates 'a bit unpleasant'
21:14 timotimo it only took like one full day of deleting individual flaky files and restarting the damn thing from the very beginning
21:14 mst roughly
21:15 timotimo i didn't knw that. thanks!
21:15 timotimo http://hack.p6c.org/~timo/ - for your enjoyment, maybe
21:16 timotimo at some point i ought to minimize some of those crashes and compress them away so that it doesn't use up like 16 gigs of hard drive space :D
21:16 Zoffix timotimo, what's 'fuzzing'?
21:17 Xliff mst: Good to know. Maybe you missed it when I said "irrational" =)
21:17 timotimo Zoffix: it's when you have an input file that you make lots of semi-random changes to in order to get the program that consumes it to crash
21:17 Zoffix :o
21:17 mst Xliff: oh, I didn't, but still
21:17 ShimmerFairy .oO( twit for twat )
21:17 timotimo afl in this case instruments the code to optimize changes so that they maximize the amount of different code paths taken
21:18 Xliff ShimmerFairy++
21:18 lizmat ShimmerFairy  o/
21:18 ShimmerFairy \o
21:18 timotimo here i'm fuzzing .moarvm files based on the nqp stage0
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21:22 mst ShimmerFairy: that's the 'house of commons' prisoners dilemma strategy clearly
21:23 ShimmerFairy mst: too bad I don't know much of UK politics :) . (though I do need to go find a site that'll report on the referendum, now that I'm reminded)
21:24 mst ShimmerFairy: well, mostly, you insert [politician you dislike] for twit and [politician you dislike even more] for twat and it generalises to most political debates
21:24 ShimmerFairy mst: oh, so like [REDACTED] and [REDACTED TO AVOID FLAME WAR]?  :P
21:27 tony-o is the UK vote over?
21:27 tony-o did they tell the EU to pound sand?
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21:28 ShimmerFairy tony-o: apparently, polls closed, counting starts now
21:28 ShimmerFairy tony-o: http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
21:28 ShimmerFairy (the page I have up to keep an eye on it)
21:28 mst ShimmerFairy: but 'twit for twat' as a replacement for 'tit for tat' only works in en_UK hence my aiming it at our politicians :)
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21:29 mst tony-o: I don't think we're going to. guess we'll find out in N hours.
21:29 ShimmerFairy mst: heh :) . At least our House democrats are starting to learn from the British Parliament's How-To Guide On Fun House Sessions™  :P
21:29 skaji Hi, I'm trying examples in https://doc.perl6.org/language/concurrency now.
21:30 skaji react { whenever Supply.interval(1) -> $v { say $v; done() if $v == 4 } }
21:30 skaji works
21:30 skaji But if I change $v == 4 to $v == 0, then it freezes.
21:31 skaji react { whenever Supply.interval(1) -> $v { say $v; done() if $v == 0 } }
21:31 skaji Can someone tell me why? thanks.
21:31 Zoffix skaji, because $v starts with 1?
21:31 Zoffix m: react { whenever Supply.interval(1) -> $v { say $v; done() if $v == 4 } }
21:31 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤»
21:31 mst so it never contains 4
21:31 Zoffix hmmm
21:31 mst hm, no
21:31 Zoffix m: react { whenever Supply.interval(1) -> $v { say $v; done() if $v == 0 } }
21:31 Zoffix weird
21:31 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«(timeout)0␤»
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21:32 Zoffix skaji, seems a bug
21:32 Zoffix huggable, rakudobug
21:32 huggable Zoffix, To report a bug, email detailed description and any test cases to rakudobug@perl.org or use perl6 query on http://rt.perl.org ; see https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/#reporting-bugs
21:32 skaji Zoffix: wow
21:32 timotimo maybe we require an emit before a done to happen, even though that's not right?
21:32 Zoffix skaji, ^ would file it, please?
21:32 tony-o react { whenever Supply.interval(1) -> $v { say $v.WHAT; done(); } }
21:32 Zoffix timotimo, but doesn't it emit a '0' anyway?
21:33 Zoffix m: react { whenever Supply.interval(1) -> $v { say $v.WHAT; done(); } }
21:33 tony-o m: react { whenever Supply.interval(1) -> $v { say $v.WHAT; done(); } }
21:33 tony-o oh, thanks Zoffix
21:33 Zoffix :S
21:33 tony-o you irrational JSON hater
21:33 Zoffix :P
21:33 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«(timeout)(Int)␤»
21:33 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«(timeout)(Int)␤»
21:34 Ptolemarch Hmm, this input crashes the Perl6 REPL for me (2016.06; I'll try checking blead):
21:34 ShimmerFairy tony-o: it's not irrational to dislike something without support for comments [at least until very recently, IIRC] :P
21:35 Ptolemarch [1..99].map:{[$_%%5&&'fizz', $_%%3&&'buzz'].grep:Str}
21:35 tony-o ShimmerFairy: was a reference to someone complaining about Zoffix reviewing his module poorly
21:35 tony-o in a poor light, rather
21:35 ShimmerFairy ah, wouldn't know :)
21:35 Ptolemarch [1..99].map:{[$_%%5&&'fizz', $_%%3&&'buzz']}
21:35 Ptolemarch argh, sorry, wrong window (only the last one)
21:35 Zoffix m: say [1..99].map:{[$_%%5&&'fizz', $_%%3&&'buzz']}
21:35 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«([False False] [False False] [False buzz] [False False] [fizz False] [False buzz] [False False] [False False] [False buzz] [fizz False] [False False] [False buzz] [False False] [False False] [fizz buzz] [False False] [False False] [False buzz] [False False…»
21:36 skaji Zoffix: Okay, I will file it. thank you for your help!
21:36 redhands98100 joined #perl6
21:36 Zoffix No problem
21:38 redhands98101 joined #perl6
21:39 Zoffix bisect: react { whenever Supply.interval: 1 -> $ { done } }
21:39 Zoffix Oops... AlexDaniel does it have freeze protection?
21:40 AlexDaniel Zoffix: well… :)
21:40 Zoffix heh
21:42 Zoffix 2016.04 still has that bug
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21:43 AlexDaniel bisect: exit 42
21:43 bisectable AlexDaniel: on both starting points the exit code is 42 and the output is identical as well
21:43 AlexDaniel bisect: exit 999999999999999
21:43 bisectable AlexDaniel: on both starting points the exit code is 255 and the output is identical as well
21:44 AlexDaniel bisect: exit -99999999
21:44 bisectable AlexDaniel: on both starting points the exit code is 1 and the output is identical as well
21:44 AlexDaniel bisect: exit -999999999
21:44 bisectable AlexDaniel: on both starting points the exit code is 1 and the output is identical as well
21:45 AlexDaniel bisect: exit -999999
21:45 bisectable AlexDaniel: on both starting points the exit code is 193 and the output is identical as well
21:45 AlexDaniel bisect: exit -99999
21:45 bisectable AlexDaniel: on both starting points the exit code is 97 and the output is identical as well
21:45 Zoffix :S
21:45 AlexDaniel yeah :/
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21:49 Zoffix Ptolemarch, what's the crash? And are you using Readline/Linenoise/rlwrap?
21:49 Zoffix Can't reproduce on bleed without those installed
21:49 Ptolemarch I have both Readline and Linenoise installed; I'm pretty sure it's using Readline.
21:50 timotimo Zoffix: you're right, it does
21:51 timotimo maybe it gets confused because done() fires before the first emit() goes through?
21:51 Zoffix ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
21:51 Ptolemarch Zoffix: http://pastebin.com/YLGL8Ane
21:51 Zoffix Thanks.
21:51 Zoffix m: [1..99].map:{[$_%%5&&'fizz', $_%%3&&'buzz'].grep:Str}
21:51 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«Cannot resolve caller grep(Array: ); none of these signatures match:␤    ($: Bool:D $t, *%_)␤    ($: Mu $t, *%_)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
21:52 Zoffix m: [1..99].map:{[$_%%5&&'fizz', $_%%3&&'buzz'].grep: { $_ ~~ Str } }
21:52 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: ( no output )
21:52 Zoffix Is it meant to work with just a type object passed?
21:52 Zoffix bisect: [1..99].map:{[$_%%5&&'fizz', $_%%3&&'buzz'].grep:Str}
21:52 bisectable Zoffix: exit code is 1 on both starting points, bisecting by using the output
21:52 bisectable Zoffix: (2016-06-09) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b6902e5
21:52 Ptolemarch Well, not sure. I don't mean to say the code should *work*.
21:52 Ptolemarch But it's surprising that it crashes the REPL.
21:53 woolfy Perl 5&6 course by Damian Conway ("Functional Programming in Perl") is over and was very interesting (no video or online notes).
21:54 Zoffix Ptolemarch, ah, I see :)
21:54 masak woolfy: ooc, what was the proportion of 5 vs 6?
21:54 Zoffix Ptolemarch, ok, now I can confirm it. I was running your other sample
21:55 Zoffix I know which commit potentially caused this /me tries compiling that
21:55 woolfy masak: 60% about Perl 5, 40% about Perl 6 (because Perl 6 takes less effort to program and to explain)
21:55 woolfy Have to leave room now...  Bye.
21:55 woolfy left #perl6
21:56 Zoffix m: [1..99].map:{[$_%%5&&'fizz', $_%%3&&'buzz'].grep: Str}
21:56 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: ( no output )
21:56 Zoffix m: say [1..99].map:{[$_%%5&&'fizz', $_%%3&&'buzz'].grep: Str}
21:56 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«(() () (buzz) () (fizz) (buzz) () () (buzz) (fizz) () (buzz) () () (fizz buzz) () () (buzz) () (fizz) (buzz) () () (buzz) (fizz) () (buzz) () () (fizz buzz) () () (buzz) () (fizz) (buzz) () () (buzz) (fizz) () (buzz) () () (fizz buzz) () () (buzz) () (fizz…»
21:56 Ptolemarch Zoffix: Yeah, basically right now I'm using a kind of FizzBuzz Golf as a way of trying to learn the language.
21:56 Zoffix ^ (that answers my earlier question)
21:56 Ptolemarch So far my best is:
21:57 Ptolemarch m: (($_ %% 5 && 'fizz' || '')~($_ %% 3 && 'buzz' || '') || $_).say for 1..99;
21:57 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«1␤2␤buzz␤4␤fizz␤buzz␤7␤8␤buzz␤fizz␤11␤​buzz␤13␤14␤fizzbuzz␤16␤17␤buzz␤19␤fizz␤buzz␤2​2␤23␤buzz␤fizz␤26␤buzz␤28␤29␤fizzbuzz␤31␤32␤b​uzz␤34␤fizz␤buzz␤37␤38␤buzz␤fizz␤41␤buzz␤43…»
21:57 Zoffix m: say $_ %% Ⅴ*Ⅲ ?? 'Fizz Buzz' !! $_ %% Ⅲ ?? 'Fizz' !! $_ %% Ⅴ ?? 'Buzz' !! $_ for ^Ⅹ*Ⅹ
21:57 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«Fizz Buzz␤1␤2␤Fizz␤4␤Fizz Buzz␤Fizz␤7␤8␤Fizz␤Fizz Buzz␤11␤Fizz␤13␤14␤Fizz Buzz␤16␤17␤Fizz␤19␤Fizz Buzz␤Fizz␤22␤23␤Fizz␤Fizz Buzz␤26␤Fizz␤28␤29␤Fizz Buzz␤31␤32␤Fizz␤34␤Fizz Buzz␤Fizz␤…»
21:57 Zoffix :P
21:57 Ptolemarch OMFG
21:58 Zoffix lol
21:58 * Ptolemarch will have to read this code...
21:59 Ptolemarch Zoffix: I don't suppose you're at YAPC right now?
21:59 Zoffix Nope
21:59 Zoffix It's just a nested ternary with unicode roman numerals :)
21:59 Ptolemarch OIC, right. :-)
21:59 Ptolemarch A ternary operator was my first attempt.
22:00 skaji oops i created a ticket in perl5 queue https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128469 could someone modify it please?
22:01 AlexDaniel sure
22:01 AlexDaniel nope
22:01 AlexDaniel “Permission Denied” :/
22:01 Zoffix [Coke] can
22:01 Zoffix sorry... unintentional pun :P
22:02 AlexDaniel :D
22:03 skaji AlexDaniel, Zoffix: thanks, [Coke] thanks in advance :)
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22:21 Zoffix Yup. My guess was right (about REPL commit)
22:25 Zoffix .tell awwaiid if you have any time, would you be able to take a look into https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128470 ? It was introduced by the loopy REPL commit, so maybe it'll be easier for you to fix it than the rest of us. Thanks! https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/​6b935928a52be5819b6d384b1596e0125250a18b
22:25 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to awwaiid.
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22:33 hoelzro timotimo: I've been looking at the rlwrap source, and I don't see any indication that it supports custom escape sequences =(
22:34 timotimo hmm
22:34 timotimo ok
22:34 hoelzro I'm wondering if we can just detect if the terminal it's attached to is in a particular mode
22:34 hoelzro but then I wonder about how best to do that - an external module has problems, and I'm loathe to add another nqp:: op
22:34 timotimo mhm
22:38 hoelzro ugh, tcgetattr doesn't change under rlwrap o_O
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22:45 hoelzro hmm, I have a devious alternative
22:45 hoelzro what if instead of detecting rlwrap at the get-go and telling them about it if it's not present...
22:46 hoelzro ...we switch off line buffering on standard input and issue the help after the first time we see something like a control character?
22:46 hoelzro that doesn't sound ideal, but it's a thought
22:47 timotimo oh, because rlwrap eats everything like arrow keys?
22:49 Xliff m: sub f { fail "NYI" }; f
22:49 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«NYI␤  in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
22:51 Xliff m: my @a = ^3; @b = ^3; say @a == @b
22:51 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '@b' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my @a = ^3; 7⏏5@b = ^3; say @a == @b␤»
22:51 Xliff m: my @a = ^3; my @b = ^3; say @a == @b
22:51 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«True␤»
22:51 Xliff m: my @a = ^3; my @b = (1, 2, 3); say @a == @b
22:51 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«True␤»
22:51 Xliff m: my @a = ^3; my @b = (1, 2, 3); say @a cmp @b
22:51 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«Less␤»
22:51 Xliff m: my @a = ^3; my @b = (1, 2, 3); say @a eqv @b
22:51 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«False␤»
22:51 AlexDaniel m: my @a = ^3; my @b = 5..8; say @a == @b
22:52 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«False␤»
22:52 AlexDaniel m: my @a = ^3; my @b = 5..7; say @a == @b
22:52 camelia rakudo-moar 9b579d: OUTPUT«True␤»
22:52 * AlexDaniel can't count
22:52 Xliff :p
22:52 Xliff Yeah. I just tested that.
22:52 hoelzro timotimo: yup
22:55 hoelzro I should probably move my REPL wishlist out of that gist, but RT doesn't seem like the right spot for them either
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23:04 timotimo that's a tiny bit evil :)
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23:24 * Xliff kicks git in the unmentionables for making conflicts on mergable files.
23:25 Zoffix Wasn't it you who made the conflict and git was just nice enough to point out? :P
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