Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-07-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:41 sortiz \o #perl6
01:41 Zoffix \o
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01:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
01:50 gfldex m: Int.^method_table<abs>:delete; Int.^compose; say (-5).abs
01:50 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 79872 bytes␤»
01:50 gfldex Zoffix: ^^^
01:52 Zoffix gfldex, doesn't seem to be working? :)
01:53 gfldex please don't pull the rug out from under objects
01:55 Xliff m: use NativeCall; class A is repr('CStruct') { has uint8 $.a; has uint8 $.b; has uint32 $.c; has uint32 $.d; has uint32 $.e; }; say nativesizeof(A)
01:55 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«16␤»
01:56 Xliff ^^ Expecting 14.
01:56 Xliff m: say 1 + 1 + 4 * 3
01:56 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«14␤»
01:57 geekosaur nope
01:57 sortiz Xliff, All C structs use some padding.
01:57 Zoffix Doesn't it need to pad?
01:57 geekosaur C compilers force alignment
01:57 Xliff Ooooo
01:57 Xliff Well that sucks.
01:57 geekosaur a and b will be contiguous but c will be aligned
01:58 geekosaur to the next 4-byte boundary, hence 2 slack bytes
01:58 Xliff That explains some things.
01:58 Xliff I'm trying to read from a data file. I don't want alignment. That throws stuff off.
01:58 geekosaur (on x86/x86_64 at least; actual alignment depends on platform ABI)
01:58 gfldex m: use NativeCall; class A is repr('CStruct') { has uint32 $.a; has uint32 $.b; has uint32 $.c; has uint8 $.d; has uint8 $.e; }; say nativesizeof(A)
01:58 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«16␤»
01:58 geekosaur unpack should be in the ecosystem
01:59 Xliff So I can't avoid pack/unpack in this case?
01:59 sortiz Nope
01:59 Xliff kk
01:59 Xliff So is there any way to compute the size of a class/record WITHOUT the alignment issues?
01:59 Xliff Or do I need *gasp* naked values!
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02:09 Zoffix Can someone with access to OSX try out the hanging examples in this ticket? I can't reproduce it on neither Windows nor Linux. Wondering if we can close that ticket: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=126390
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02:41 dj_goku Xliff: so I am getting a segfault with the changes to inet_ntop, turning on debugging in moar so it'll be a few before I know more.
02:43 sortiz dj_goku, what is your problem with inet_ntop?
02:44 Xliff dj_goku, If you missed nine's correction, here it is: sub inet_ntop(int32, Pointer, Str, uint32) returns Str is native { * }
02:44 Xliff And make the corresponding change to the other sub.
02:51 dj_goku Xliff: still same seq fault
02:51 sortiz m: use NativeCall; sub inet_ntop(int32,Buf,utf8,uint32 --> Str) is native {*}; my $a = utf8.allocate(16); say inet_ntop(2,Buf.new(200,33,54,1), $a, 16);
02:51 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«200.33.54.1␤»
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02:52 dj_goku sortiz: lol
02:52 dj_goku sortiz: I have spent a few hours last night trying to figure this all out. Just for fun.
02:52 dj_goku lol
02:52 dj_goku balh
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02:56 sortiz dj_goku, the important detail is that the 'dst' argument should be a pre-allocated buffer.
02:58 sortiz m: use NativeCall; sub inet_ntop(int32,Buf,utf8,uint32 --> Str) is native {*}; my $a = utf8.allocate(16); inet_ntop(2,Buf.new(127,0,0,1), $a, $a.elems); $a.decode.say; # Other way
02:58 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«127.0.0.1␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␤»
02:59 dj_goku m: use NativeCall; sub inet_pton(int32, Str, Buf is rw) returns int32 is natvie {*}; my $a = Buf; inet_pton(2, '127.0.0.1', $a); say $a.WHAT;
02:59 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Can't use unknown trait 'is natvie' in a sub+{callable[int32]} declaration.␤at <tmp>:1␤    expecting any of:␤        rw raw hidden-from-backtrace hidden-from-USAGE␤        pure default DEPRECATED inl…»
02:59 dj_goku m: use NativeCall; sub inet_pton(int32, Str, Buf is rw) returns int32 is natvie {*}; my $a = Buf; inet_pton(2, '127.0.0.1', $a); say $a.WHAT;
02:59 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Can't use unknown trait 'is natvie' in a sub+{callable[int32]} declaration.␤at <tmp>:1␤    expecting any of:␤        rw raw hidden-from-backtrace hidden-from-USAGE␤        pure default DEPRECATED inl…»
02:59 dj_goku m: use NativeCall; sub inet_pton(int32, Str, Buf is rw) returns int32 is native {*}; my $a = Buf; inet_pton(2, '127.0.0.1', $a); say $a.WHAT;
02:59 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
02:59 dj_goku m: use NativeCall; sub inet_pton(int32, Str, Buf is rw) returns int32 is native {*}; my $a = Buf.new; inet_pton(2, '127.0.0.1', $a); say $a.WHAT;
02:59 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
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03:00 dj_goku m: use NativeCall; sub inet_pton(int32, Str, Buf is rw) returns int32 is native {*}; my $a = Buf.new; inet_pton(2, '127.0.0.1', $a);
03:00 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
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03:01 sortiz m: use NativeCall; sub inet_pton(int32, Str, Buf is rw) returns int32 is native {*}; my $a = Buf.allocate(4); inet_pton(2, '127.0.0.1', $a); say $a
03:01 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<7f 00 00 01>␤»
03:05 dj_goku ahh
03:05 sortiz m: use NativeCall; sub inet_pton(int32, Str, Buf --> int32) is native {*}; my $a = Buf.allocate(4); inet_pton(2, '127.0.0.1', $a); say $a; # In fact no 'is rw' required.
03:05 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<7f 00 00 01>␤»
03:06 Xliff sortiz++ # Knowledge!
03:11 dj_goku m: use NativeCall; sub inet_pton(int32, Str, Buf is rw) returns int32 is native { * }; sub inet_ntop(int32, Buf, utf8, uint32 --> Str) is native { * }; my $s_addr = Buf.allocate(4); inet_pton(2, '127.0.0.1', $s_addr); my $ip = utf8.allocate(16); say inet_ntop(2, $s_addr, $ip, 16); # to put it all together.
03:11 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«127.0.0.1␤»
03:12 dj_goku sortiz: wow, so thanks. now I have to go figure out why that all worked and why. :D
03:13 sortiz The important detail with those calls is that all buffers need to be properly allocated. And you can consider .allocate of Blob/Buf as Perl6's malloc.
03:15 dj_goku ok. I haven't messed with C in ages and have forgotten all that knowledge.
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03:32 MasterDuke .tell timotimo another minor update to add the line number in the source file as a column, https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/pull/382
03:32 yoleaux MasterDuke: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
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06:38 Xliff Does anyone know the best way to take data from unpack and properly convert it to a float?
06:39 Xliff m: use NativeCall; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new(<00 01 00 01>));
06:39 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«2.35106044812595e-38␤»
06:39 Xliff m: use NativeCall; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new(<01 01 00 0>));
06:39 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«3.60133705331478e-43␤»
06:40 Xliff m: use NativeCall; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new(<00 01 00 00>));
06:40 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«3.58732406867153e-43␤»
06:40 Xliff m: use NativeCall; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new(<00 00 01 00>));
06:40 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«9.18354961579912e-41␤»
06:43 Xliff m: use NativeCall; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new(<80 3f 00 00>));
06:43 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«Type check failed in initializing element #1 to Buf; expected uint8 but got Str ("3f")␤  in any  at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 1736␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in any  at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 3055␤  in a…»
06:44 Xliff m: use NativeCall; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new([80, 3f, 00, 00]>));
06:44 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Confused␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3ll; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new([80, 37⏏5f, 00, 00]>));␤    expecting any of:␤        whitespace␤»
06:44 Xliff m: use NativeCall; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new(80, 3f, 00, 00));
06:44 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3all; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new(80, 37⏏5f, 00, 00));␤    expecting any of:␤        whitespace␤»
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06:49 raydiak m: use NativeCall; say nativecast num32, Buf.new: 0x80, 0x3f, 0x00, 0x00
06:49 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«2.27795078360642e-41␤»
06:51 Xliff D'oh
06:51 Xliff m: use NativeCall; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new(0x3f, 0x80, 00, 00));
06:51 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Leading 0 does not indicate octal in Perl 6.␤    Please use 0o0 if you mean that.␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3nativecast(num32, Buf.new(0x3f, 0x80, 007⏏5, 00));␤    Leading 0 does not indicate octal in Perl 6.␤…»
06:52 Xliff m: use NativeCall; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new(0x3f, 0x80, 0x00, 0x00));
06:52 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«4.60060298822481e-41␤»
06:52 Xliff m: use NativeCall; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new(0x80, 0x3f, 0x00, 0x00));
06:52 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«2.27795078360642e-41␤»
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06:52 Xliff m: use NativeCall; say nativecast(num32, Buf.new(0x00, 0x00, 0x80, 0x3f));
06:52 camelia rakudo-moar 55c359: OUTPUT«1␤»
06:52 Xliff radiak++
06:53 raydiak :)
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07:28 timotimo MasterDuke: is it correct to remove the ; before the function? because in the line before that there's still a ! for some reason ...
07:28 yoleaux 03:32Z <MasterDuke> timotimo: another minor update to add the line number in the source file as a column, https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/pull/382
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08:08 buharin hello :)
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08:14 DrForr Mornin'.
08:18 hahainternet hola
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08:30 RabidGravy BOOM!
08:32 Xliff Here comes the Boom!
08:33 Xliff Ready or not, here comes the boys from the South
08:33 Xliff Boom!
08:33 Xliff Here comes the Boom!
08:33 Xliff How you like me now?
08:33 Xliff (love that song...)
08:34 Xliff nighty, #perl6!
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08:58 jgrabber Hello, how do I create a subset of an Type that only accepts Object instances, so neither Type Objects nor .undefined Objects?
08:58 jgrabber "subset Defined of Real where *.defined" does not seem to work
09:00 RabidGravy In what way doesn't iit seem to work?
09:00 RabidGravy m: subset Defined of Real where *.defined; my Defined $a = Int
09:00 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $a; expected Defined but got Int (Int)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:00 RabidGravy is what I would expect
09:00 psch m: subset RealReal of Real:D where * > 1.0; # is what i'd do vOv
09:00 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: ( no output )
09:01 psch i mean, like, if you want a subset of Real that only limits to .defined, just use Real:D in the first place
09:01 psch but if you want to constrain that further, subset of *:D
09:01 psch ...not literally *, though :)
09:02 psch m: subset RealReal of Real:D where * > 1.0; sub f(RealReal $) { }; f Real
09:02 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '<anon>'␤  in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:02 RabidGravy Oooh when did type smileys work there?
09:02 psch not sure, i dimly recall a change about the resulting type about 3 or so weeks ago..?
09:03 psch that is, the type that results from smilying a type
09:03 RabidGravy the advantage of the subset however is that it doesn't  require an initialiser
09:03 gregf_ m:  my Real $val = -0.1;
09:03 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: ( no output )
09:04 jgrabber I see, Real:D is the better option. I did not think of it
09:05 jgrabber m: subset Defined of Real where *.defined; my Defined $a = Real
09:05 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: ( no output )
09:05 jgrabber why does this work though?
09:07 timotimo Real is a role, maybe roles are defined?
09:07 timotimo m: say Real.defined
09:07 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: OUTPUT«False␤»
09:08 timotimo no, they're not :\
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09:08 psch m: subset DInt of Int where *.defined; my DInt $a = Int
09:08 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $a; expected DInt but got Int (Int)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:08 psch it is something about roles apparently
09:08 psch m: subset DInt of Int where *.defined; my DInt $a = 1
09:08 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: ( no output )
09:10 RabidGravy confirmed
09:10 RabidGravy m: subset DD of Stringy where *.defined; my DD $a = Stringy
09:10 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: ( no output )
09:11 RabidGravy BUG? FEATURE? PLACE YOUR BETS NOW!
09:11 timotimo i'd say bug.
09:11 jgrabber From a noob's perspectives, this seems pretty counter-intuitive since Real.defined is False
09:12 timotimo yes
09:12 timotimo m: my Real:D $foo = Num
09:12 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $foo; expected Real:D but got Num (Num)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:12 timotimo m: my Real:D $foo = 1
09:12 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: ( no output )
09:12 timotimo you can use that for the time being, it seems like
09:12 timotimo it's also going to be 1000x more performant
09:13 jgrabber I see, thanks!
09:14 gregf_ sorry for interrupting. was wondering if there was documentation these: :D :D:, :U etc
09:14 timotimo those are the type smileys
09:14 gregf_ heh
09:15 gregf_ so are there ones like :p :P :o :O ?
09:16 timotimo not yet
09:16 timotimo but there's :_
09:16 timotimo (not implemented, iirc)
09:17 psch m: my Int:_ $x;
09:17 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: ( no output )
09:17 RabidGravy where :O auto-initialises with some unexpected value and :P with just the one you didn't want
09:17 * psch ponders slanging that
09:19 jgrabber Ok, ':D' is in the FAQ and few other places, could've checked that one. I did not see any documentation that tells you not to subset via *defined for roles - although ':D' seems way more suitable
09:22 gregf_ timotimo++ :)
09:22 gregf_ m: :_.^name
09:22 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: ( no output )
09:23 gregf_ m: say [:_, :D, :D:, :U].map(*.^name)
09:23 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Confused␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say [:_, :D, :D:7⏏5, :U].map(*.^name)␤    expecting any of:␤        colon pair␤»
09:23 hahainternet all i have to say to ^^ is :O
09:24 hahainternet ;)
09:24 timotimo what is :D: supposed to do there?
09:24 psch m: say [:_, :D, :D, :U].map(*.^name)
09:24 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: OUTPUT«(Pair Pair Pair Pair)␤»
09:26 gregf_ dunno, i think i've seen :D: as well in some docs
09:26 psch the second : is the invocant marker
09:27 timotimo except that's only syntax inside type definitions
09:27 timotimo and such
09:27 psch m: my method foo(Int:D: ) { "foo" }; say foo 2
09:27 camelia rakudo-moar 2ff5ad: OUTPUT«foo␤»
09:27 psch right
09:27 psch it's not valid anywhere else
09:27 gregf_ ah - ok
09:29 gregf_ RabidGravy++
09:29 gregf_ psch++
09:34 hahainternet oh so that reminds me
09:34 hahainternet Inline::Go would be fun
09:34 hahainternet i was reading about Inline::Perl5 again
09:35 hahainternet the problem is, you can't embed perl6 in another binary yet can you, i guess i need to figure out how perl6 in perl5 gets communicated with
09:36 hahainternet anyway i already implemented a semi equivalent in TCL so could be a fun project
09:36 timotimo um, we load perl as a shared library
09:36 timotimo so it is "in another binary"
09:36 timotimo we just have a tiny helper .c file, i believe
09:36 hahainternet timotimo: no i mean the opposite way around, when using perl6 from perl5
09:36 timotimo ah
09:36 jnthn hahainternet: I think Inline::Perl6 does that
09:36 jnthn So may be worth looking at for hints
09:36 hahainternet jnthn: precisely
09:36 hahainternet but Go has runtime reflection, and a sufficient enough type system to permit this
09:37 timotimo yeah, inline::perl6 starts a perl6 with inline::perl5 and wraps it all backwards
09:37 hahainternet and i have working code that instantiates custom types at runtime and dispatches to them with reflection
09:37 hahainternet aah ok
09:37 hahainternet i'll just leave that out for now then, until perl6 can be linked in as a .so or what have you it's just too much effort imho
09:37 hahainternet morning all btw
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09:49 jnthn hahainternet: I doubt you'll ever link perl6 in as a .so, unless we come up with a way to fat-pack bytecode into a .so too, and then I suspect distros will find a way to hate that. :P
09:49 hahainternet jnthn: being unable to link to perl6 like you can to perl5 would be a little bit of a smell, but you know FAR more about the internals of compiler implementation than i ever will
09:49 hahainternet so please don't take that as criticism :)
09:50 timotimo we'll want to be able to fatpack bytecode into an executable anyway
09:51 jnthn hahainternet: Well, we certainly need an embedding story, but it becomes a little more interesting to figure out given the Perl 6 compiler isn't written in C (or something else that compiles into a .so) but rather Perl 6 (which compiles to bytecode). As opposed to Perl 5 which is written in C, so it's relatively easy to see how to provide a .so to link against.
09:52 hahainternet jnthn: i would love to say something interesting and erudite here, but i'm afraid i have nothing
09:52 hahainternet i doubt i can help, but if i can, i'd love to
09:52 timotimo when will we AOT compile bytecode? :P
09:52 jnthn Maybe it'd end up being a library that links in MoarVM and provides a nice C-level API for loading/invoking the Perl 6 compiler.
09:53 hahainternet doing the perl6 -> Go portions should be somewhat straightforward at least
09:53 hahainternet Go's reflection makes that part not too bad
09:53 hahainternet anyway i'm not ognna be starting that anytime soon, just hit me in the head last night as i tried to sleep
09:53 timotimo ouch
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10:23 nine Sooo...which hotel in Cluj will feature the most Perl 6 devs?
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10:23 DrForr That's an excellent question.
10:25 DrForr According to the wiki, Capitolina City Chic Hotel is currently in the lead for the total number of days followed by (and now I'm going to have that damn song stuck in my head) Hotel Transilvania.
10:26 nine Sample size is just very, very small though :)
10:28 hahainternet small sample sizes are fine
10:28 hahainternet just give your confidence interval :)
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10:35 DrForr I would guess either Capitolina or Hotel Capitol, if I were looking at the map. Plenty of Pensiunes in the area, but those aren't going to appeal to a YAPC crowd, I think.
10:36 DrForr (pensiunea being the rough equivalent of a B&B)
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10:37 DrForr Nice thing is it's all in walking distance for me :)
10:38 z3ndrag0n joined #perl6
10:38 iH2O u live in Manhattan i gather
10:39 DrForr No, but I do use that metric :)
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11:52 buharin my friend?
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11:56 DrForr I'm sure they're around.
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12:11 BrokenRobot m: try { EVAL "say 09"; CATCH { default { .^name.say }}}
12:11 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Leading 0 is not allowed. For octals, use '0o' prefix, but note that 9 is not a valid octal number␤    at /home/camelia/EVAL_0:1␤    ------> 3say 097⏏5<EOL>␤9␤»
12:12 BrokenRobot Is this not catchable or am I doing it wrong?
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12:13 gfldex it is a compile time exception but inside an eval. I vote for bug.
12:13 jnthn Note it's only a warning
12:13 BrokenRobot Oh
12:13 BrokenRobot m: my $x = 09; say ++$x
12:13 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Leading 0 is not allowed. For octals, use '0o' prefix, but note that 9 is not a valid octal number␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3my $x = 097⏏5; say ++$x␤10␤»
12:13 jnthn Not sure if it's actually thrown as a control exception though.
12:14 jnthn Perhaps it should be if not
12:14 jnthn m: try { EVAL "say 09"; CONTROL { default { .^name.say }}}
12:14 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Leading 0 is not allowed. For octals, use '0o' prefix, but note that 9 is not a valid octal number␤    at /home/camelia/EVAL_0:1␤    ------> 3say 097⏏5<EOL>␤9␤»
12:14 gfldex m: try { my $a = '0' ~ (0..9).pick; EVAL "say $a"; CATCH { default { .^name.say }}}
12:14 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤EVAL is a very dangerous function!!! (use MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL to override,␤but only if you're VERY sure your data contains no injection attacks)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $a = '0' ~ (0..9).pick; EVAL "say…»
12:14 jnthn Yeah, seems not
12:14 BrokenRobot It's a X::Worry::P5::LeadingZero is X::Worry::P5
12:14 BrokenRobot Um... it there a way to capture warnings? :)
12:15 jnthn Those thrown by warn, yes...with a CONTROL block and match on CX::Warn.
12:15 jnthn But for the "potential difficulties" spat out by the compiler, I'm not so sure.
12:15 gfldex m: try { quietly EVAL "say $a"; CATCH { default { .^name.say }}}
12:15 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$a' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3try { quietly EVAL "say 7⏏5$a"; CATCH { default { .^name.say }}}␤»
12:16 gfldex m: try { EVAL "quietly say $a"; CATCH { default { .^name.say }}}
12:16 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$a' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3try { EVAL "quietly say 7⏏5$a"; CATCH { default { .^name.say }}}␤»
12:16 BrokenRobot k, I'll use is_run from roast for it.
12:21 BrokenRobot hmhmhmh this kinda sucks. I didn't realize it was just a warning so this warning is LTA:
12:21 BrokenRobot m: say 09
12:21 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Leading 0 is not allowed. For octals, use '0o' prefix, but note that 9 is not a valid octal number␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3say 097⏏5<EOL>␤9␤»
12:21 BrokenRobot Since leading 0 is allowed
12:21 BrokenRobot m: quietly say 09
12:21 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Leading 0 is not allowed. For octals, use '0o' prefix, but note that 9 is not a valid octal number␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3quietly say 097⏏5<EOL>␤9␤»
12:21 BrokenRobot m: say quietly 09
12:21 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Leading 0 is not allowed. For octals, use '0o' prefix, but note that 9 is not a valid octal number␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3say quietly 097⏏5<EOL>␤9␤»
12:22 * BrokenRobot shrugs
12:23 gfldex m: say &quietly.WHAT
12:23 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    quietly used at line 1␤␤»
12:23 gfldex no wonder it doesn't work!
12:24 BrokenRobot It does work
12:24 BrokenRobot m: say Nil + Nil
12:24 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Use of Nil in numeric context  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤Use of Nil in numeric context  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤0␤»
12:24 BrokenRobot m: quietly say Nil + Nil
12:24 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«0␤»
12:25 gfldex you may have missed a joke there
12:25 * BrokenRobot doesn't see a joke
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12:53 tbrowder gfldex: I will file with RT the pod issues you mentioned yesterday if you have no objections.  You can add or subtract after you see them.
12:53 gfldex tbrowder: thanks a lot
12:53 tbrowder you're welcome!
12:54 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
12:56 [Coke] tbrowder: do you find you get better help on questions on email vs. irc?
12:56 dalek doc: 1267395 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | html/js/main.js:
12:56 dalek doc: #__debug__ will display the viewport size in the bottom left corner
12:56 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1267395713
12:56 dalek doc: d0f5aaf | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Capture.pod6:
12:56 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc
12:56 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d0f5aaf5ed
13:00 tbrowder [Coke]:  I do in some cases, especially non-time-sensitive or transient ones. I have asked some things here (of specific folks in some cases) that don't get answered and I'm reluctant to ping again. Whereas, with e-mail, I have a better record of queries and I feel they will usually be answered at some point.
13:01 dalek doc: e742369 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | CONTRIBUTING.md:
13:01 dalek doc: tell contributors about new #__debug__ feature
13:01 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e742369390
13:02 tbrowder [Coke]: BTW, I have successfully gotten RT to recognize 'tbrowder' (thanks to help from RT support), but the issue you assigned to me doesn't show up on my top ten list.
13:02 tbrowder [Coke]: Can you fix that or do I need to make another RT support request?
13:04 [Coke] tbrowder: as I said before, I can't help you with that.
13:05 dalek doc: a8ebdc2 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | html/js/main.js:
13:05 dalek doc: external links may throw an exception, catch those
13:05 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a8ebdc2ec4
13:05 [Coke] when you go to the ticket, do you see it assigned to you there?
13:05 travis-ci joined #perl6
13:05 travis-ci Doc build failed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc'
13:05 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/143038280 https://github.com/perl6/doc/com​pare/3e694bf07676...d0f5aaf5ed80
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13:05 [Coke] gah, empty catch block!
13:07 dalek doc: 675d073 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | html/js/main.js:
13:07 dalek doc: Remove trailing whitespace
13:07 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/675d073dfd
13:08 bjz_ joined #perl6
13:09 tbrowder [Coke]: Sorry, I missed the first response (that's another reason I like e-mail for those kinds of things).  I asked RT support.
13:09 travis-ci joined #perl6
13:09 travis-ci Doc build failed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'tell contributors about new #__debug__ feature'
13:09 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/143039824 https://github.com/perl6/doc/com​pare/d0f5aaf5ed80...e742369390b4
13:09 travis-ci left #perl6
13:10 tbrowder [Coke]: I do see it assigned to me on the ticket.
13:11 iH2O joined #perl6
13:13 dalek doc: 907e647 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | html/js/main.js:
13:13 dalek doc: fix trailing WS
13:13 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/907e6473d4
13:13 dalek doc: ad9e1be | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | /:
13:13 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc
13:13 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ad9e1be7a5
13:13 dalek doc: c891da2 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | html/js/main.js:
13:13 dalek doc: Revert "fix trailing WS"
13:13 T-Bone joined #perl6
13:13 dalek doc:
13:13 dalek doc: This reverts commit 907e6473d4f915ef94c4f48290d37dc211c0f732.
13:13 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c891da2384
13:13 dalek doc: f12e45a | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | html/js/main.js:
13:13 dalek doc: explain empty catch block
13:13 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f12e45a961
13:13 travis-ci joined #perl6
13:13 travis-ci Doc build failed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'external links may throw an exception, catch those'
13:13 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/143040928 https://github.com/perl6/doc/com​pare/e742369390b4...a8ebdc2ec4ee
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13:18 AlexDaniel Zoffix: not sure if there's any need to interrupt someone's workflow, people can solve such things themselves (as the git log shows)
13:20 gfldex AlexDaniel: thanks for complaining for me :)
13:21 gfldex i should outsource all my complaining. Would save tons of time. :D
13:22 AlexDaniel gfldex: by the way, this revert was unnecessary, as now the problem is there again
13:27 gfldex t/trailing_whitespace.t works locally for me and I can't push changes. travis might be confused
13:27 travis-ci joined #perl6
13:27 travis-ci Doc build passed. Zoffix Znet 'Remove trailing whitespace'
13:27 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/143041596 https://github.com/perl6/doc/com​pare/a8ebdc2ec4ee...675d073dfd44
13:27 travis-ci left #perl6
13:28 * gfldex goes to study git hooks
13:28 skids joined #perl6
13:30 BrokenRobot [Coke]: on this ticket you commented that it can be closed with tests because the current behaviour matches the one requested, but it doesn't. The ticket said REPL must print "^D" when it's pressed before exiting, but we don't do that. Should I write the tests for current behaviour or do we need to add the ^D? https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Dis​play.html?id=70297#txn-1399431
13:31 BrokenRobot And I don't get a newline either on bleed rakudo on Debian (via ssh)
13:32 [Coke] tbrowder: are you sure the expansion icon next to the list is open?
13:33 [Coke] BrokenRobot: I think it's answering the spirit of the request. also, see Faye's update on jul 18, 2015.
13:33 [Coke] masak's around somewhere, he can say if he's happy.
13:34 [Coke] tbrowder: looks like the icon has to be pointing up for the box to be open.
13:34 BrokenRobot k, I'll leave this one alone for now.
13:37 grondilu what's the P5 equivalent of the rw trait for sub parameters?
13:38 [Coke] it's not "is rw" ?
13:38 BrokenRobot grondilu: $_[0] = 42
13:38 [Coke] er, I read that backwards
13:38 BrokenRobot As in, @_ is alias
13:38 AlexDaniel gfldex: I'm not sure what git magic you have done locally, but main.js line 93 is still there
13:39 AlexDaniel gfldex: you can't push because there's nothing to push or because git complains about something?
13:40 grondilu that works indeed
13:43 dalek doc: d4097fe | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | html/css/style.css:
13:43 dalek doc: CSS changes depeding on https://github.com/perl6/Pod-To-HTML/commi​t/2a7449325b3098bda2f31065dbea0ec87b589b26
13:43 dalek doc:
13:43 dalek doc: this will fix
13:43 dalek doc:     - fixes duplicate anchors from X<> around/inside a =head
13:43 dalek doc:     - fixes missing links on toc entries for =head4 and higher
13:43 dalek doc:
13:43 dalek doc: The layout has changed and may trigger a popular vote.
13:43 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d4097fe3a7
13:43 dalek doc: a8199d5 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | html/js/main.js:
13:43 dalek doc: fix trailing WS
13:43 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a8199d5cc7
13:43 gfldex AlexDaniel: there was confusion on my side, should be fixed with the push I just did
13:44 AlexDaniel gfldex: by the way, what editor do you use?
13:44 gfldex AlexDaniel: about magic: "The pre-push hook runs during git push, after the remote refs have been updated but before any objects have been transferred. It receives the name and location of the remote as parameters, and a list of to-be-updated refs through stdin. You can use it to validate a set of ref updates before a push occurs (a non-zero exit code will abort the push)."
13:44 gfldex vim
13:46 gfldex AlexDaniel: and failed tests produce a non-zero exit code :)
13:47 ptolemarch joined #perl6
13:50 AlexDaniel gfldex: is it possible to set up client-side hooks automatically for everyone who clones the repo?
13:50 gfldex AlexDaniel: i don't thinks so. .git is in .gitignore :)
13:50 AlexDaniel gfldex: last time I asked the same question about git filters I was told no, because that's pretty much remote code execution…
13:51 AlexDaniel gfldex: and we can't have server-side hooks on github, so…
13:51 gfldex however, one could write a t/is-there-a-git-hook.t
13:51 AlexDaniel this implies that contributors run tests :D
13:51 gfldex we do have travis to catch the lazy (like me)
13:52 xinming joined #perl6
13:52 AlexDaniel gfldex: anyway, surely we can have instructions on how to setup a hook in the README
13:54 gfldex AlexDaniel: nonono you got that wrong. README is the file folk read _after_ they caused problems. :)
13:55 iH2O left #perl6
13:55 DrForr No, they post to stackoverflow and do something else.
13:57 AlexDaniel m: min(+'a', +'a').say
13:57 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5a' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
13:57 AlexDaniel bisect: min(+'a', +'a').say
13:57 bisectable AlexDaniel: on both starting points the exit code is 1 and the output is identical as well
13:57 AlexDaniel bisect: good=2015.10 min(+'a', +'a').say
13:58 bisectable AlexDaniel: exit code is 1 on both starting points, bisecting by using the output
13:58 bisectable AlexDaniel: (2015-12-05) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3cb6ae9
13:58 RabidGravy joined #perl6
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13:59 AlexDaniel bisect: good=2015.10 try { min(+‘a’, +‘a’).say; CATCH { exit 1 } }
13:59 bisectable AlexDaniel: on both starting points the exit code is 1 and the output is identical as well
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14:04 gfldex the ToC changes are now on the docs.perl6.org, if you got odd colours please shift-click the reload button
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14:05 travis-ci Doc build passed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'fix trailing WS'
14:05 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/143051072 https://github.com/perl6/doc/com​pare/f12e45a961db...a8199d5cc7bb
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14:08 BrokenRobot gfldex: did you say you'll fix JS later or was the show/hide toc feature removed? ( https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/217 )
14:12 BrokenRobot The table stuff is a definite -1 from me. Not only semantically (as discussed last night), but visually too. Can't see what roles/classes the thing inherits from and the bumble-bee row coloring is distracting.
14:13 dalek doc: 02696a6 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | html/css/style.css:
14:13 dalek doc: hide heading numbers in ToC. They are not displayed in the main text
14:13 dalek doc: anyways and thus provide little meaning to the reader
14:13 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/02696a6a89
14:13 dalek doc: f8d1d0b | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | html/css/style.css:
14:13 dalek doc: indent heading > 1 in ToC
14:13 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f8d1d0b484
14:13 gfldex BrokenRobot: i will fix that now
14:13 BrokenRobot gfldex++
14:14 gfldex and i will display the heading numbering in #__debug__ so to make it easy to spot heading blurps
14:26 AlexDaniel gfldex: again, why does it have to be a table?
14:27 gfldex AlexDaniel: it does not have to be a table. If you don't like it, feel free to change it. Disabeling a column is quite easy though because ... it's a column.
14:28 BrokenRobot gfldex: but which column do we need to disable?
14:29 BrokenRobot gfldex: e.g. this <ol> looks exactly like the <table> I see on docs site right now: https://jsfiddle.net/usgsstyf/
14:30 gfldex please stop
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14:31 BrokenRobot gfldex: I was just trying to understand what problem you were attempting to solve. There's no point in saying "feel free to cahnge it" if I don't know why you changed it.
14:31 mst gfldex: people are asking questions because they don't understand yet, not to criticise you
14:31 BrokenRobot Exactly.
14:32 gfldex table#TOC td.toc-number { display: none; }
14:34 BrokenRobot The ol { list-style: none; } does the same thing. It can also do more, like change to roman numerals or use bullets instead of numbered things.
14:34 sammers m: my %dog = name => 'Elly', bark => -> $name { "$name says woof" }; say %dog<bark>(%dog<name>);
14:34 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Elly says woof␤»
14:36 BrokenRobot m: my %dog = name => 'Elly', bark => *.fmt: "%s says woof"; say %dog<bark>(%dog<name>);
14:36 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Elly says woof␤»
14:36 BrokenRobot \o/
14:36 sammers is there a way to reference a hash value from itself? like in that code object example.
14:37 vytas how can one access http://rakudo.org/rt/easy mentioned in http://rakudo.org/tickets/ ?
14:37 sammers like to reference name inside the code object without passing it to the sub
14:37 BrokenRobot sammers: is the value a sub? You can probably use &?ROUTINE
14:37 vytas agh it actually has button to proceed
14:37 AlexDaniel gfldex: I'm sorry, I'm just trying to understand your thought process - if it doesn't have to be a table, please take my question to mean “why did you decided to make it a table?” - I'm just trying to get my head around what's going on
14:38 sufrostico joined #perl6
14:38 gfldex BrokenRobot: the whole idea of proper heading numbering is to show the same numbers in the ToC then on he headings in the main body (we don't do that yet). To do so we have to do the rendering of numbers by hand. The benefit of auto numbering of <ol> is fairly slim in this case.
14:39 BrokenRobot We can easily add that to main body with the `counter` CSS property
14:39 gfldex further adding a 3rd column to a <ol> is possible, but i can think of better ways to spend my time
14:40 gfldex as I wrote 2 times already, if you don't like it, change it
14:40 BrokenRobot vytas: yeah, it's a bit bugged at the moment.
14:41 mst gfldex: people were trying to understand why you liked it, not try to change it - please stop being defensive, nobody was attacking you :(
14:42 masak joined #perl6
14:42 BrokenRobot gfldex: my changing it would be simply reverting your work. I don't know what you're attempting to do with your work. And when I asked, you're throwing a tantrum making me feel like an asshole.
14:42 masak hiya, #perl6
14:42 mst BrokenRobot: dude, please chill, there's no need to escalate the misunderstanding
14:42 dalek doc: 14271c9 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | html/ (2 files):
14:42 dalek doc: fix ToC toggle buttom
14:42 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/14271c9551
14:43 gfldex BrokenRobot: please read the commit msg on https://github.com/perl6/Pod-To-HTML/commi​t/2a7449325b3098bda2f31065dbea0ec87b589b26
14:49 sammers m: my %dog = name => 'Elly', bark => { "%dog<name> says woof" }; say %dog<bark>();
14:49 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Elly says woof␤»
14:50 BrokenRobot body { counter-reset: h1 } h1 { counter-reset: h2 } h2 { counter-reset: h3 } h1:before { counter-increment: h1; content: counter(h1) ". " } h2:before {counter-increment: h2; content: counter(h1) "." counter(h2) ". "}
14:50 BrokenRobot But whatever... I'm not looking to make another enemy in #perl6, so I'll just move on
14:51 perlpilot "another enemy"?!?
14:51 gregf_ sammers: (my %dog = name => "Elly", bark => -> $name { "$name says woof" })<bark>.("Elly"); # because there can be only one 'name'?
14:51 sammers BrokenRobot, I guess we can just self-reference inside the hash code object.
14:52 BrokenRobot gfldex: and sorry for the "reverting your work" comment, I meant that I did not understand any of the changed, not that I was threatening to undo anything.
14:52 sammers gregf_ this seems to work: my %dog = name => 'Elly', bark => { "%dog<name> says woof" }; say %dog<bark>();
14:52 gfldex "my changing it would be simply reverting your work" he threatened to destroy my work _in_ public. I tried to move the discussion out of the public eye, what he ignored. If you ask me, he is correct with the assumtion that he makes himself enemies.
14:52 mst gfldex: nobody was threatening to destroy your work
14:53 mst gfldex: please stop, step back, and assume good faith
14:53 gregf_ cmon guys its not about indiviuals.. *points to Perl6*
14:53 gfldex what exactly does that phrase mean then?
14:53 mst gfldex: that was in response to your defensive "if you don't like it, change it", when he was trying to understand what you did
14:53 mst his point was that, not understanding, the only change he could make would be to revert it, and since obviously that would be silly, he wanted to try and understand what you did
14:54 mst gfldex: notice that's EXACTLY what he said - he didn't understand, and was trying to
14:54 mst I'm not sure how you jumped from "you're telling me to change it but I don't understand enough to change it except by reversion, so I'd like to understand" to that being a threat
14:54 gfldex i understand what it was in respose to, but there is a big difference between to change the html-elements in use and to "imply revert your work"
14:55 gfldex i am pissed and i have very good reason to do so
14:55 mst the point was completely clear to me, I'm not sure why you read a threat into it rather than helping him to understand :(
14:55 mst no, your getting pissy is what derailed this, when other people wanted to understand your work better :(
14:56 RabidGravy gah, ponies needed
14:56 gfldex mst: fine you try hard to understand him. Would you be so kind the spend the same energy in understanding me?
14:56 mst gfldex: I am doing so. that's why I asked him to calm down above as well.
14:56 mst nobody was attacking you. nobody was threatening your work.
14:56 mst two people cared about your work enough to try and understand it better
14:56 mst that's a compliment in open source, usually
14:56 * perlpilot hugs gfldex and BrokenRobot
14:57 parabolize sammers: you've got state and functionality with that dog object. Wouldn't it be easier to use a class?
14:57 mst I don't know which projects you've been on when people would actually just delete somebody else's work without understanding it, but in my experience, this is not such a project
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14:57 sammers parabolize, just experimenting with code objects.
14:58 mst gfldex: if you step back, assume good faith, and re-read people's words with the assumption they just wanted to understand your work, I hope their words will be clearer to you
14:59 mst I think the issue here is that nobody else realised you'd take "the only change I could make right not would be to revert" as a threat rather than a statement of not understanding yet
14:59 sammers parabolize, what other containers can we use to pass around code objects?
14:59 mohae_ joined #perl6
14:59 dogbert17 o/ #perl6
14:59 perlpilot sammers: What containers do you think won't hold code objects?  :)
15:00 perlpilot dogbert17: greetings!
15:00 dogbert17 hi perlpilot
15:00 mst gfldex: does the misunderstanding make a little more sense, given that context?
15:00 dogbert17 it's time for todays stupid question
15:00 perlpilot dogbert17: 42  (the stupid answer)
15:00 parabolize gregf_: the smileys are documented in Signatures: https://docs.perl6.org/type/Signature#Co​nstraining_Defined_and_Undefined_Values and tested in roast/S{12-attributes,06-parame​ters,04-declarations}/smiley.t
15:01 dogbert17 in src/core/Capture.pm there are several methods, e.g. 'kv' and 'values' which I cant se if I do 'say Capture.^methods(:local)'. Why?
15:01 dogbert17 m: say Capture.^methods(:local)
15:01 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«(new from-args BUILD hash list elems Capture FLATTENABLE_LIST FLATTENABLE_HASH WHICH Method+{<anon|59337488>}.new Method+{<anon|59337488>}.new Method+{<anon|59337488>}.new Str gist perl Bool Numeric Method+{<anon|59337488>}.new Method+{<anon|59337488>}.new…»
15:02 gfldex BrokenRobot: my appology, my private message was eaten by my inability to type
15:02 sammers perlpilot, so I am pretty new to p6
15:02 BrokenRobot gfldex: I did receive your request to apologize and I apologized above
15:03 perlpilot m: Capture.^methods.map(*.name).say;    # What do you mean, you can't see them?  ;)
15:03 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«(new from-args BUILD hash list elems Capture FLATTENABLE_LIST FLATTENABLE_HASH WHICH AT-KEY AT-POS EXISTS-KEY Str gist perl Bool Numeric keys kv values pairs antipairs)␤»
15:04 dogbert17 now I see them :)
15:04 perlpilot dogbert17: Oops, I forgot the :local, but it does the same.    I think it's that methods don't always stringify to their names well (or at all)
15:05 perlpilot dogbert17: especially multimethods
15:05 dogbert17 perlpilot: so chances are that the methods I'm looking for are one of the Method+{<anon|59337488>}.new?
15:05 perlpilot dogbert17: yep
15:06 perlpilot dogbert17: caveat lector though, that's just my guess right now.
15:06 dogbert17 perlpilot: aha, so I should use your variant instead: Capture.^methods.map(*.name).say
15:06 perlpilot dogbert17: If you're interested in their names, you should ask them for their name, yes.  :)
15:07 ssotka joined #perl6
15:07 dogbert17 perlpilot: will do, thx for explaining
15:11 rgrinberg joined #perl6
15:12 perlpilot dogbert17: btw, .^methods gives you back objects.  You can call .^methods on those objects to see what else you can do besides "name"  (though, again, some of them will be anonymous methods or something without a name)
15:14 BrokenRobot ^methodsception
15:14 Xliff_zzzz Whoop!
15:14 Xliff_zzzz \0/
15:15 kurahaupo joined #perl6
15:15 Xliff I have Perl6 module to read Winamp Media Library files.
15:15 Xliff I need to write simple test cases and off to the ecosystem it will go.
15:15 harmil joined #perl6
15:15 Xliff Prolly this weekend.
15:16 Xliff And now.... MOAR SLEEP!
15:16 gregf_ parabolize: cheers
15:17 khw joined #perl6
15:18 dalek doc: c999f29 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Capture.pod6:
15:18 dalek doc: Added docs for Capture.Capture
15:18 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c999f2917a
15:33 yaboo joined #perl6
15:34 yaboo is there microsoft sql server DB access for perl6 yet?
15:34 yaboo is there microsoft sql server DB access for perl6 yet?
15:34 dogbert17 Ok, so I have concocted some docs for Capture.keys. Does it look ok to you? https://gist.github.com/dogbert17​/3f7c351762eefea9b97eb4746ffe4603
15:35 [Coke] yaboo: it'd probably be here if so: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish - and I don't see it yet.
15:35 [Coke] DBIsh readme has mojibake in it.
15:35 [Coke] (near very bottom)
15:36 yaboo I saw DBIish... and didn't see SQL server as an option. I'm not familiar with mojibake.
15:36 perlpilot dogbert17: the all-caps CAPTURE looks like it might be meta-syntax, but it's not clear  (i.e.,  someone might think that CAPTURE is a Perl 6 thing and try  CAPTURE.keys literally)
15:37 dogbert17 perlpilot: I could remove that
15:37 dogbert17 perhaps it should be removed from the entire document...
15:38 [Coke] perlpilot: that's an issue with USAGE everywhere.
15:38 [Coke] Not worth bugging this commit over.
15:38 [Coke] USAGE syntax is meant to be intuitive, but isn't documented.
15:40 dalek DBIish: 77ad8b2 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | README.pod:
15:40 dalek DBIish: Fix mojibake
15:40 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/77ad8b223c
15:40 dalek DBIish: 010b74a | (Zoffix Znet)++ | README.pod:
15:40 dalek DBIish: Merge pull request #70 from zoffixznet/master
15:40 dalek DBIish:
15:40 perlpilot Aye.
15:40 gfldex dogbert17: maybe use «$capture.keys» to indicate this is the variable part?
15:40 dalek DBIish: Fix mojibake
15:40 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/010b74ae28
15:40 BrokenRobot Weird. The online editor had 'Commit' button greyed out when I tried to edit the original
15:40 dogbert17 gfldex: in the usage part or the example?
15:41 gfldex dogbert17: i would do it in the Usage part too, for anyone who made it that far it should be cleare what a scalar container is for
15:43 gfldex dogbert17: in examples i like to use variable names to indicate the type that is stored in them. The examples tend to be fairly abstract and the variable name isn't reused elsewhere anyways.
15:43 dogbert17 gfldex: could you reload the page, I've made some updates
15:44 [Coke] btw, I have been using text-based chat since 1985 or so, and still find it very easy to assume someone's intent. I try to follow mst's advice, and assume the best.
15:44 iH2O joined #perl6
15:44 [Coke] (assume incorrectly, I meant to say! stupid text-based chat.)
15:44 * [Coke] heads out to lunch.
15:44 gfldex dogbert17: i would write it the same way
15:45 dogbert17 gfldex: then I'll commit it this way :)
15:45 gfldex dogbert17: also, if I need a speaking name I stick the type in the declaration. e.g. my Int $left; my Int $right;
15:46 dogbert17 gfldex: do you think I should write 'my Capture $capture ...'?
15:48 gfldex dogbert17: that would be redundant. Every time you have redundant info in a doc, the reader might spend time to figure out what that redundancy is for. If there is a good reason for that redundancy, it needs explaining words. So a lack of need of those words is a good indicator.
15:49 dogbert17 gfldex: point taken
15:51 dalek doc: 83209fc | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Capture.pod6:
15:51 dalek doc: Added docs for Capture.keys. gfldex++ perlpilot++
15:51 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/83209fcbd6
15:52 dj_goku joined #perl6
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15:59 Guest_84845 Allah is doing
16:00 Guest_84845 sun is not doing allah is doing
16:00 Guest_84845 moon is not doing Allah is doing
16:00 Guest_84845 stars are not doing Allah is doing
16:00 tadzik I haven't see that spam in a while
16:00 BrokenRobot Who is he doing?
16:00 Guest_84845 planets are not doing Allah is doing
16:00 Guest_84845 galaxies are not doing Allah is doing
16:00 BrokenRobot Oh, this is exciting.
16:01 tadzik Guest_84845: what about universes?
16:01 BrokenRobot That's it? I was hoping we'd get to at least the multiverse!
16:01 tadzik BrokenRobot: yeah, that's anticlimatic :(
16:02 * BrokenRobot nods
16:02 mst ooooh, an allahbot
16:02 Guest_84845 oceans are not doing Allah is doing
16:02 cdg joined #perl6
16:02 mst if nobody minds, I'm curious to see if the full lifecycle's the same as the other one I've seen
16:03 tadzik oh, we downgraded to earth stuff again
16:03 BrokenRobot :)
16:03 Guest_84845 mountains are not doing Allah is doing
16:03 Guest_84845 trees are not doing Allah is doing
16:03 mst parents next, I think
16:03 Guest_84845 mom is not doing Allah is doing
16:03 BrokenRobot lol
16:03 Guest_84845 dad is not doing Allah is doing
16:04 mst now, capitalism time
16:04 Guest_84845 boss is not doing Allah is doing
16:04 tadzik that's cheating
16:04 BrokenRobot ...capitalism? :D
16:04 mst watch the next few :D
16:04 tadzik I'm no geologist, but afaik mountains aren't doing anything at all
16:04 Guest_84845 job is not doing Allah is doing
16:04 tadzik so allah just gets to fill his cv with no-work?
16:04 tadzik blasphemy
16:05 Guest_84845 dollar is not doing Allah is doing
16:05 Guest_84845 degree is not doing Allah is doing
16:05 Guest_84845 medicine is not doing Allah is doing
16:05 tadzik phah, that reminds me of Tim Minchin
16:06 Guest_84845 customers are not doing Allah is doing
16:06 Guest_84845 you can not get a job without the permission of allah
16:06 mst and now, a brief segue into asking god nicely to be allowed to do things
16:06 iH2O troll bot alert!
16:06 mst iH2O: what do you mean 'alert', it's not like we didn't notice
16:06 Guest_84845 you can not get married without the permission of allah
16:06 gregf_ o_O
16:07 gregf_ Guest_84845: now please automate this in Perl6
16:07 Guest_84845 nobody can get angry at you without the permission of allah
16:07 tadzik troll bot? So apparently we can't cross a bridge without the permission of allah either
16:07 Guest_84845 light is not doing Allah is doing
16:07 Guest_84845 fan is not doing Allah is doing
16:07 BrokenRobot Huh, why does he give permission to get angry? Damn, and all this time he seemed like a nice guy. Doing things for everyone else.
16:08 mst jnthn: hang on
16:08 Guest_84845 was kicked by jnthn: ALLAH IS DOING NOTHING, BOW TO THE ALMIGHTY JNTHN
16:08 gregf_ he? bots are gender neutral :|
16:08 mst ...
16:08 jnthn mst: oh, oops
16:08 mst 17:02 < mst> if nobody minds, I'm curious to see if the full lifecycle's the  same as the other one I've seen
16:08 tadzik how can you tell who they identify as
16:08 tadzik don't be insensitive
16:08 mst jnthn: YOU HAVE RUINED MY ANTHROPOLOGY STUDY
16:08 BrokenRobot :D
16:09 jnthn Aww :P
16:09 mst now somebody's going to have to listen to all of that again
16:09 jnthn heh
16:09 mst goddamnit, I've been waiting weeks for that opportunity, and I asked the channel nicely, and nobody objected
16:09 gregf_ sure, run this *runs* loop { <sun moon stars planets galaxies oceans mountains trees mom dad boss job dollar degree medicine>.map: ->$who { say "$who is not doing God is doing"; sleep 1; } }
16:10 masak Guest_84845 is not doing, at least not in #perl6
16:10 mst but, no, you can't be bothered to actuallt read the scrollback before breaking out the hobnail boots
16:10 jnthn mst: I didn't actually read, I just saw the darn thing and was like "argh" :P
16:10 * mst SULKS
16:10 tadzik masak: #rekt :P
16:10 dalek doc: d190696 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Capture.pod6:
16:10 dalek doc: Added docs for Capture.values
16:10 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d190696a06
16:10 * masak pats mst, *pat pat*
16:10 mst jnthn: yeah. that's not how you +o :P
16:11 masak jnthn: I think this might be the first documented case of #perl6 over-kicking :P
16:11 jnthn Tough.
16:11 mst I should not be lecturing *other* people on showing restraint as an op, FFS
16:11 mst masak: I always expected that to be me :D
16:11 masak mst: guess you'll just have to write your own Allah bot :P :P :P
16:12 dalek doc: f49b9fb | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | / (2 files):
16:12 dalek doc: teach #__debug__ to show heading numbers
16:12 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f49b9fb1df
16:12 mst I don't want my own, I want to find out if the lifecycle's standard
16:12 mst it was so far, but the last one I saw disconnected and reconnected part way through
16:12 mst and I was wondering if that was structural or just a bug
16:12 iH2O left #perl6
16:12 masak disconnected part way through is not doing, Allah is doing
16:13 mst LOL
16:15 masak you can not get disconnected without the permission of Allah
16:16 gfldex masak: do you indicate that telcos are not the work of the devil?
16:18 masak who is this Allah anyway? I mean I've heard the name before, but is he like a celebrity or something?
16:19 gfldex sorry can't help you, never met that fellow myself
16:19 freezerburnv joined #perl6
16:20 BrokenRobot He's the guy who flew to heaven on a flying horse. It was in all the newspapers.
16:21 FROGGS joined #perl6
16:25 * masak thought that was Elton John
16:26 masak also, if your horse can fly, flying to heaven is not such a big achievement
16:34 sufrostico joined #perl6
16:35 ugexe there is already an "Air Horse ONE"
16:35 timotimo m: say '^'.ord.base(16)
16:35 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«5E␤»
16:36 tbrowder gfldex: see RT bugs #128569 and #128570
16:36 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=128569
16:36 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=128570
16:37 tbrowder [Coke] I tried to take ownership of those bugs but am not allowed.
16:37 * gfldex .oO( I totally owned that bug! )
16:41 cognominal joined #perl6
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16:53 tbrowder gfldex: do you have an account on RT?
16:54 tbrowder gfldex: if you do, then take ownership if you wish,
16:59 Possum joined #perl6
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17:05 dalek doc: 747c2a9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | assets/sass/style.scss:
17:05 dalek doc: Add warning about html/css/style.css being a generated file
17:05 dalek doc:
17:05 dalek doc: Closes #662
17:05 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/747c2a9530
17:05 dalek doc: 71fa4e6 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (2 files):
17:05 dalek doc: Move style changed introduced into auto-generated style.css to style.scss
17:05 dalek doc:
17:05 dalek doc: This moves work added in commits
17:05 dalek doc: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d4​097fe3a79001335cbc7b289bf576e737e23f93
17:05 dalek doc: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/02​696a6a89a72ecd4cb95bf8a9077727796e31cd
17:05 dalek doc: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f8​d1d0b4844e3556a18ce0bbcbe147998d5638f0
17:05 dalek doc: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/14​271c9551538a2bdbc3b56007ef147d50a6fa3f
17:05 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/71fa4e6982
17:08 dalek doc: a8a84db | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (2 files):
17:08 dalek doc: Improve auto-generation warning
17:08 dalek doc:
17:08 dalek doc: Make it clear that it's html/css/style.css that is auto-generated,
17:08 dalek doc: as the message has to appear in assets/sass/style.scss too
17:08 dalek doc: and using "THIS FILE" is confusing.
17:08 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a8a84db643
17:13 gfldex BrokenRobot: `make css` or `make assets` would be nice to have.
17:13 * BrokenRobot nods
17:13 BrokenRobot I'm completely unfamiliar with Makefiles tho
17:14 BrokenRobot The dev app generates them automatically, if you have the extra modules installed.
17:23 firstdayonthejob joined #perl6
17:24 [Coke] jnthn++ #kicking that bot
17:25 [Coke] tbrowder: what does it say in the upper left hand side for you? For me I get "Logged in as coke"
17:26 [Coke] What's the reason not to just regen the files every build?
17:27 BrokenRobot [Coke]: the doc CSS? Because many contributors are contributing docs, not styles, and the extra prereqs for style generations can be avoided by including the generated styles. I know dogbert17 was having issues installing one of sass generating prereqs on debian
17:28 [Coke] ok. I tend to prefer not to have generated stuff checked in, but probably won't be able to help with a debian problem, so I'll try to let it go. :)
17:30 BrokenRobot Oh, it was Ubuntu not Debian: https://rt.cpan.org/Public/​Bug/Display.html?id=115287
17:30 tbrowder [Coke]: It shows my email, not my user name. I've tried to change all the settings I can find, and I login with my username (not email), but nothing so far has worked.
17:32 user9 joined #perl6
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18:30 gfldex BrokenRobot: i do have problems on debian as well, META::Cpan debian package is to old
18:31 BrokenRobot I'm unsure which module requires that.
18:32 gfldex quite a few
18:32 BrokenRobot The alternative to CSS::Sass is having ruby-sass (at least in Debian) available
18:32 gfldex and a test in Mojolicious::Plugin::AssetPack hangs (investigating right now)
18:33 BrokenRobot And AssetPack uses it if CSS::Sass is not installed
18:34 labster joined #perl6
18:35 BrokenRobot Doesn't hang for me on Jessie.
18:37 BrokenRobot And ::AssetPack is not needed; one can execute sass -w assets/sass/style.scss:html/css/style.css
18:37 BrokenRobot And that'll watch the sass file for changes and process it.
18:44 zakharyas joined #perl6
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18:44 sortiz \o #perl6
18:46 dalek doc: 31b2b2e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | .gitignore:
18:46 dalek doc: Ignore extraneous files generated by `sass` command
18:46 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/31b2b2ea13
18:47 dalek doc: f6d3a24 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | CONTRIBUTING.md:
18:47 dalek doc: Document alternative SASS processing method
18:47 dalek doc:
18:47 dalek doc: Using `sass` command
18:47 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f6d3a2448e
18:49 AlexDaniel yaaaay!
18:49 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot++
18:50 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: hmm, it looks like the output is a little bit different
18:52 AlexDaniel BrokenRobot: https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel​/99fd82366a23de14eb335a955bca3b9a
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19:33 BrokenRobot Any idea why this is giving me "Undeclared routine: is_run_repl"? https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet​/672e8bb4de280e012765a3875786ca02
19:34 timotimo BrokenRobot: that lib path is probably wrong?
19:34 timotimo isn't that already inside t/ somewhere?
19:35 neilhwatson joined #perl6
19:36 BrokenRobot timotimo: the bath is right when `make spectest`. In this case I'm including teh correct path with -I, and it can find the module, since the error is about the sub name and not missing modulke
19:36 BrokenRobot *path :)
19:36 timotimo hum.
19:36 timotimo fair enough?
19:36 addison joined #perl6
19:36 BrokenRobot I'm just not following why the is export isn't taking
19:37 timotimo right
19:37 timotimo dunno :(
19:37 BrokenRobot ( full file https://github.com/perl6/roast/b​lob/master/packages/Test/Util.pm )
19:41 BrokenRobot m: sub put { say "meow" }; ::CORE('&put')(42)
19:41 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Uninstantiable; CORE)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
19:42 BrokenRobot What was the way to do this? I want to call the core 'put' sub
19:42 BrokenRobot m: sub put { say "meow" }; &CORE::put(42)
19:42 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«42␤»
19:42 * moritz not fast enough
19:45 timotimo yeah, you were calling CORE instead :)
19:46 BrokenRobot Oh, damn
19:46 BrokenRobot timotimo++ the <t/spec/packages> was actually the issue :) along with a separate roast checkout I had it in my rakudo repo in t/spec with the OLD version of Test::Util and it was using that
19:47 timotimo yay
19:48 BrokenRobot Which reminds me of something I promised to fix before Christmas and didn't
19:48 BrokenRobot m: use lib <foo bar>; say $*REPO; say $*REPO.next-repo
19:48 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«file#/home/camelia/b​ar␤file#/home/camelia/foo␤»
19:48 BrokenRobot The <foo> should be first one looked in since it's the first one the programmer provided
19:48 BrokenRobot Too late now I guess?
19:48 profan joined #perl6
19:48 * BrokenRobot & # relocating
19:53 dj_goku joined #perl6
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20:42 dalek doc: 2d46e62 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Capture.pod6:
20:42 dalek doc: Added docs for Capture.kv
20:42 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2d46e62106
20:45 Xliff_zzz m: use DateTime::Format
20:45 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find DateTime::Format at line 1 in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6␤    CompUn…»
20:46 moritz star-m: use DateTime::Format
20:46 camelia star-m 2016.04: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find DateTime::Format at line 1 in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6␤    /home/camelia/star-2016.04/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/star-2016.04/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/star-2016.04/share/perl6␤    CompUnit::Repositor…»
20:46 moritz m: DateTime::Format
20:46 camelia rakudo-moar d1ebac: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&Format'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
20:46 Xliff_zzz *sob*
20:50 grondilu star-m: use DateTime
20:50 camelia star-m 2016.04: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤DateTime is a builtin type. You can use it without loading a module.␤»
20:51 grondilu lol
20:51 grondilu that sounded a bit condescending :)
20:51 lizmat grondilu: do you have a suggestion for better phrasing ?
20:52 grondilu Well, for a start, no error message should ever use the second person.
20:52 dj_goku joined #perl6
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20:53 grondilu DateTime is a builtin type, not an external module.
20:53 grondilu ^quote this
20:53 fhorck joined #perl6
20:54 grondilu though now that I think about it, there is the "did you mean xxxx?" after a suspected typo.  And that is fine.
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21:06 moritz I don't find it condescending, actually
21:06 moritz but then I'm not an Englishman :-)
21:07 dalek doc: 231c503 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | / (2 files):
21:07 dalek doc: lighten background greyness for <pre> to increase contrast
21:07 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/231c503bca
21:07 dalek doc: c070180 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | / (3 files):
21:07 dalek doc: darken comments in <pre> for more contrast
21:07 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c070180813
21:07 dalek doc: b14a620 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | / (2 files):
21:07 dalek doc: Copy CSS around cause a casualty. The hide button is now where it
21:07 dalek doc: belongs to.
21:07 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b14a620adb
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21:38 lizmat https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/29a1107390   # grondilu++
21:40 timotimo that makes sense
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22:16 AlexDaniel hm, since when do we have two camelias on the home page
22:19 timotimo i only see one
22:25 dalek doc: 274a88b | thundergnat++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6:
22:25 dalek doc:  gcd should be divisor not denominator
22:25 dalek doc:
22:25 dalek doc: 3 justifications:
22:25 dalek doc: 1) It coerces each argument to Int. Ints always have a "denominator" of 1 but may have larger common divisors.
22:25 dalek doc: 2) The announcement  from when it was added says it is greatest common divisor. https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/bl​ob/8cbb1efd1d84fd57298e0e0813b64d8d​d37140ba/docs/announce/2011.05#L21
22:25 dalek doc: 3) The actual code that implements the op says it is greatest common divisor. https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/27e​99d4a587103b1cb23c0b0715eda5827a94ea5​/3rdparty/libtommath/bn_mp_gcd.c#L18
22:25 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/274a88b2a3
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22:57 AlexDaniel timotimo: I mean here: https://docs.perl6.org/
22:58 timotimo ah
22:58 timotimo that doesn't seem so bad?
22:59 AlexDaniel timotimo: if that was shadow, than it should be slightly below it… :D
22:59 AlexDaniel it's not too bad, it's just that we didn't have it before
23:00 gfldex it is, as soon as you hide the ToC. Then a fading Camelia starts to compete with text about the readers mind.
23:00 timotimo huh?
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23:01 timotimo oh, indeed
23:01 gfldex depends a bit on the page ofc. Some pages don't have text span that far.
23:02 gfldex given that the ToC will wander to the left on screens with many pixels, shady camelia may have to go
23:02 AlexDaniel yeah, it is a little bit weird
23:02 gfldex timotimo: do you have the powers to update Pod::To::HTML on docs.perl6.org ?
23:03 timotimo oof. i may have that
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23:04 gfldex timotimo: please do so. I don't want to bug the same person twice every day.
23:05 timotimo let me first get a bite of something edible
23:05 gfldex please keep up your strength
23:06 timotimo my body is very insistent on me eating all the damn time
23:17 gfldex i wonder if there should be links to presentation videos on perl6.org
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23:20 MasterDuke gfldex: https://perl6.org/documentation/, under "Miscellaneous sources"
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23:21 MasterDuke but i think it would be good to call them out a bit more
23:21 gfldex it's just so much stuff on that site.
23:21 MasterDuke maybe their own section instead of just falling under misc sources?
23:22 gfldex i looked for them under Community
23:22 gfldex there is a Screencast section
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23:58 timotimo sorry, gfldex, i'll have to delay this until after i had sleep
23:58 timotimo feel free to remind me again tomorrow
23:59 Zoffix timotimo, is sudo needed to do it?

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