Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-07-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
00:05 gfldex sena_kun: if we refere to JIT or JVM in the main body, we should have them in the glosary
00:05 kurahaupo joined #perl6
00:06 sena_kun gfldex, I'm making a fixing commit now.
00:06 gfldex sena_kun: we use both term, JVM is used quite a bit
00:08 sena_kun gfldex, yes, I saw it already. I should be more careful, sorry.
00:08 dalek doc: 9302e6f | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6:
00:08 dalek doc: Accidently removed items JIT and JVM were restored
00:08 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9302e6f60b
00:08 dalek doc: 81f35fd | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/traps.pod6:
00:08 dalek doc: Document exploding sunk Proc trap
00:08 dalek doc:
00:08 dalek doc: There were a few RTs involving.
00:08 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/81f35fd46d
00:09 sena_kun Ah, we have more links to removed items. Aaaaah. Will be fixed soon...
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00:14 gfldex sena_kun: there is `make test-links`
00:15 huggable joined #perl6
00:15 gfldex can I say "page break if send to printer" in html?
00:15 jdv79 are we sure that works cause last i looked a lot of links were bad.
00:16 gfldex jdv79: it works to some degree. Not all reported links are bad tho.
00:16 jdv79 mostly if not all were in the fragment portion
00:16 sena_kun gfldex, ah, thanks, I'll try it next time. I was a bit careless with this PR and now I'm already sorry.
00:17 gfldex sena_kun: it's cool, we can fix it
00:18 gfldex pod-to-bigpage produces printable output now (for LTA values of printable)
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00:26 dalek doc: 712b0c6 | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6:
00:26 dalek doc: Fix dead links on the glossary page
00:26 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/712b0c6dc6
00:27 P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words
00:27 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: ( no output )
00:27 P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words.say
00:27 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(bla blo blu)␤»
00:28 P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words.say[0]
00:28 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(bla blo blu)␤»
00:29 sena_kun Okay, now it seems quite better.
00:29 P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words.say;say "hello @t[0].tc;
00:29 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3 blo blu".words.say;say "hello @t[0].tc;7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        method arguments␤»
00:29 P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words.say;say "hello @t[0].tc";
00:29 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(bla blo blu)␤hello True.tc␤»
00:29 P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words.say;say "hello @t[1].tc";
00:30 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(bla blo blu)␤Use of uninitialized value @t of type Any in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed.  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤hello .tc␤»
00:30 P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words;say "hello @t[1].tc";
00:30 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«hello blo.tc␤»
00:30 P6fr hum ?
00:30 P6fr why .tc is not evalue
00:31 P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words;say "hello @t.tc[0]";
00:31 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«hello @t.tc[0]␤»
00:31 gfldex m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words;say "hello {@t[1].tc}";
00:31 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«hello Blo␤»
00:31 P6fr haaaa
00:31 P6fr thx :D
00:31 P6fr i learn p6
00:32 P6fr small tutorial in french
00:32 P6fr no traduction :(
00:33 gfldex P6fr: it may be faster to learn english then Perl 6
00:34 P6fr both are languages
00:34 P6fr it's the same
00:35 gfldex P6fr: the printed version of docs.perl6.org is 444 pages A4. I'm quite sure you get English on less then that.
00:36 P6fr maybe
00:36 geekosaur you can however define a "basic perl6" aka basic English
00:36 geekosaur can do quite a lot without knowing the full details of hypers, without even looking at junctions, etc.
00:37 unmatched} m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words;say "hello @t[1].tc()";
00:37 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«hello Blo␤»
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00:38 unmatched} m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words;say "hello &tc(@t[1])";
00:38 geekosaur s/aka/á la/
00:38 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«hello Blo␤»
00:38 geekosaur sheesh
00:38 * geekosaur has had A Day
00:38 P6fr This is a good exercise to learn English learning Perl. There is little documentation in French and it motivates me to go to chat , English forum.
00:39 geekosaur (also the flip side: no way you describe all of English in 450 pages)
00:43 P6fr why &tc() "&" unmatched}  pls ?
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00:46 geekosaur it can't recognize arbitrary expressions unless you enclose them in braces. it does recognize sigils, so & works to tell it a sub name follows
00:49 P6fr m: say "hello tc(@t[0])"
00:49 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '@t' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "hello tc(7⏏5@t[0])"␤»
00:49 P6fr hum ok
00:49 P6fr m: my @t = "bla blo blu".words;say "hello tc(@t[1])";
00:49 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«hello tc(blo)␤»
00:50 P6fr ok ok
00:50 gfldex P6fr: see https://docs.perl6.org/language/quoting#Interpolation:_qq
00:52 P6fr thx :-)
00:53 P6fr i don't look "&"
00:53 P6fr i search
00:55 P6fr the & to force evaluation ok
01:00 dalek doc: e7200ea | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/quoting.pod6:
01:00 dalek doc: doc & and subscripts in quoting constructs
01:00 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e7200ea6e3
01:01 P6fr you use prompt and \n or, say + get ?
01:02 dalek doc: f81097c | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/quoting.pod6:
01:02 dalek doc: add & interpolation to index
01:02 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f81097c593
01:02 jdv79 prompt fir stdin and say for stdout.
01:02 jdv79 *for
01:03 jdv79 most normally, perhaps
01:03 nebg is there a perl equivalent of the python module called "scapy" ?
01:03 jdv79 wut is that?
01:04 jdv79 and do you mean perl 5 or 6?
01:04 nebg jdv79, both
01:04 P6fr perhaps ?
01:04 jdv79 maybe
01:04 P6fr what is it
01:05 P6fr what it is sorry
01:05 jdv79 perhaps is just a more british way of saying maybe
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01:05 * jdv79 is bored with maybe
01:05 P6fr haaaa ok lol
01:05 jdv79 :)
01:05 jdv79 though im not british
01:06 ccube where is the Compunit class documented?
01:06 jdv79 look in src/core/?
01:06 ccube okay
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01:17 nebg i need a perl6  library for reading and writing packets to an interface or to a libpcap-formatted file.
01:18 unmatched} P6fr: `say` is mostly for short stuff meant for humans. Use `put` to print to STDOUT. See examples of how `say` abridges large output: https://docs.perl6.org/routine/say#sub_say
01:19 P6fr merci
01:19 unmatched} nebg: check the ecosystem: http://modules.perl6.org/ If not there you can either write one or use a Perl 5 module (through Inline::Perl5 interop) I'm sure CPAN has something or other for that: https://metacpan.org/
01:19 unmatched} De rien
01:20 P6fr ok
01:21 nebg unmatched}, ok what about raw socket programming ? is there a standard or famous module for perl6  ?
01:22 unmatched} nebg: Perl 6 has those as core types. There's IO::Socket, IO::Socket::INET, IO::Socket::Async
01:22 unmatched} huggable: IO::Socket::Async
01:22 huggable unmatched}, Asynchronous TCP socket: https://docs.perl6.org/type/IO::Socket::Async
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01:22 P6fr good night !
01:22 unmatched} night
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01:27 jdv79 unmatched}: you speak french?
01:35 unmatched} jdv79: no, but I live in Canada :) (We have dual official languages: English/French)
01:35 unmatched} (some things rub off)
01:47 jdv79 but youre in ontario not quebec.  which is why i was confused.
01:47 jdv79 ok....
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01:57 ShimmerFairy question: if I have a sub C in module A::B, under what conditions can I refer to it as A::B::C? Or do I need to (perhaps redundantly) name it sub A::B::C ?
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01:59 unmatched} Yeah, but all the packaging has both languages. Plus there are some bilingual people at work :)
02:02 unmatched} Plus I *wanted* to learn French, as a job skill, but somehow managed to learn Perl 6 instead :P
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02:08 zacts hi perl6
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02:24 unmatched} \o
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02:34 Herby_ Evening, everyone!
02:34 Herby_ o/
02:39 dalek ecosystem: 3c65f32 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | META.list:
02:39 dalek ecosystem: add Pod::To::BigPage
02:39 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/3c65f32c04
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02:46 unmatched} \o
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02:47 unmatched} .tell tbrowder Not sure if it has any relevance to your table Pod work, but just thought I'd mention this old ticket I came across about =paras in tables: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=127509#ticket-history
02:47 yoleaux unmatched}: I'll pass your message to tbrowder.
02:57 adu joined #perl6
02:57 zacts how do you organically evolve a language with a specification?
02:57 zacts I think it's cool how organic Perl6 is, yet it still has a specification
02:58 zacts how was / is it done?
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03:00 gfldex the spec is actually a looooong list of tests. If you want to add a feature, you write a test, implement the feature and send 2 PRs to the roast and rakudo repos
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03:02 gfldex before rakudo there where pugs, a compiler written in heskel, and std.pm, a parser written in Perl 5.
03:03 gfldex so the language formed by having something that could execute the tests in roast
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03:07 gfldex zacts: does that answer your question?
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03:12 geekosaur well, historically that was not quite true. the language started out having a "spec" which went through several stages of development; you can see this phase at https://design.perl6.org/. The Apocalypses stated the original intentions, without going to the level of specification; the Synopses were the ultimate result and the original "spec"
03:13 geekosaur but as time went on it was decided that the actual specification would be the tests, so there would be a direct expression of whether an implementation was actually a valid Perl 6 (i.e. can it run the tests?).
03:14 geekosaur partly because over time the implementations and synopses drifted apart, as people changed one but not the other
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03:14 geekosaur (historical implementations included pugs and niecza)
03:14 * unmatched} mumbles something about the whirlpool method
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03:25 AlexDaniel we need language/history
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03:32 zacts gfldex: oh cool yes thanks
03:32 zacts so the spec is the test suite kind of thing
03:33 zacts reminds me of this old ruby project
03:33 zacts RubySpec
03:33 zacts or something
03:35 zacts https://github.com/ruby/spec
03:36 MasterDuke joined #perl6
03:39 MasterDuke .tell AlexDaniel rough initial attempt at getting benchable to zoom the graph in on performance changes, https://github.com/MasterDuke17/bisectbot/commit/d09550fd29754e9b2e7efc258fd9f6da494a2676
03:39 yoleaux MasterDuke: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
03:39 AlexDaniel .
03:39 yoleaux 03:39Z <MasterDuke> AlexDaniel: rough initial attempt at getting benchable to zoom the graph in on performance changes, https://github.com/MasterDuke17/bisectbot/commit/d09550fd29754e9b2e7efc258fd9f6da494a2676
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03:47 AlexDaniel MasterDuke: cool!
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03:53 MasterDuke AlexDaniel: it's a little difficult to test without having all the builds (and i'm on my laptop now so definitely not going to build them), so any testing would be much appreciated
03:53 AlexDaniel sure
03:54 zacts gfldex: do the specs auto generate the doc via Perl6 POD or something?
03:56 parabolize zacts: docs source is here: https://github.com/perl6/doc it has a Makefile
03:56 AlexDaniel MasterDuke: oh! git rev-list --bisect
03:56 AlexDaniel MasterDuke: I didn't know that
03:56 MasterDuke just found out about it myself yesterday
03:57 zacts cool thanks
03:57 parabolize zacts: some of the tests in roast do have pods but I think they were used for design.perl.org rather than the docs
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04:07 AlexDaniel MasterDuke: testing on #whateverable
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04:51 tom99 hey, does anybody know if perl6 is faster better or cleaner than perl5?
04:52 parabolize no, maybe, yes
04:54 tom99 ok
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04:58 tom99 i read a long post from larry wall about why perl6 is so awesome
04:58 tom99 but most of it went over my head
05:00 zhmylove tom99: just like a perl6 cache :)
05:01 zhmylove tom99: and at the current time perl6 is much more slower than perl5. But p6 has a lot of kind features.
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05:57 ufobat good morning :-)
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06:46 moritz \o
06:50 tom99 moritz
06:50 tom99 what's  up
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06:56 timotimo o/
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07:53 DrForr perlpilot: It's not there due to not being ready for primetime, though I might add it tonight.
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07:56 timotimo Prancer?
07:56 DrForr Nod.
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08:23 sjn Good *, #perl6 :)
08:25 DrForr 'allo!
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08:53 DrForr I'm sure there's at least one module we're distributing with rakudo - Can someone name one for my test suite?
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08:56 psch DrForr: Test?
08:57 DrForr Ah, thanks. brain was seized there for a moment.
08:57 DrForr Ironic considering I'm writing grammar tests :)
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09:15 nine DrForr: There's also NativeCall and its submodules and CompUnit::Repository::Staging as a recent addition.
09:16 DrForr 'Test' will do. I don't need it to have a stable interface, I just need something that I can rely on to be in the core distro.
09:17 DrForr The parser still dynamically loads modules, so when testing 'use Module::Name' I need one that exists in core. The API isn't important.
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10:28 grondilu hello from my vacations :-)
10:30 DrForr Why are you online then? :)
10:30 iH2O u in vacations on the Cayman islands' beach with 2 mistress and a glass of rum
10:31 iH2O mistresses
10:32 grondilu just wanted to give my phone IRC client a try.  Also, slightly bored.  weather getting better though
10:32 grondilu will probably head to swimming pool.
10:33 iH2O beware sharks
10:35 unmatched} zhmylove: saying Perl 6 is "much slower" than Perl 5 is not a great thing to tell people. It's not true in many cases, but worst of all it doesn't tell people *why* they can notice slower performance or what we're doing about it. It's best to link to the FAQ entry for such questions: https://docs.perl6.org/language/faq.html#Is_Perl_6_fast_enough_for_me?
10:35 grondilu there are sharks in the Reunion island where I usually go but this year I'm near Arcachon, France.
10:36 unmatched} We've nearly doubled the speed since April and the gains are even more extreme since Christmas. "much slower" doesn't capture the entire picture.
10:36 iH2O hmm. is there a "goto" now?
10:36 unmatched} no
10:36 iH2O :(
10:37 iH2O why is it that difficult to implement?
10:37 grondilu do we have some kind of an "official" performance test bench?
10:37 unmatched} What makes you think that's the reason for it not being in Perl 6?
10:37 iH2O O_O
10:37 iH2O im puzzled
10:37 iH2O is that a conspiracy :-P
10:38 iH2O an anti-goto conspiracy
10:38 unmatched} grondilu: Tux regularly runs tests. There's a link to nice charts and everything, but I forget what it is.
10:38 DrForr iH2O: Just because it's not been done yet doesn't mean it's hard/impossible. There are many things that aren't done.
10:40 iH2O goto is the scapegoat of all evil
10:40 * grondilu looked at ROADMAP A
10:40 grondilu and noticed it's kind of old
10:40 unmatched} grondilu: the link to nice charts was posted on one of the recent weeklies or you can search the #perl6-dev IRC logs for "test-t". Since April the bench went from ~12 seconds to below 8
10:40 grondilu 2015-09-27
10:41 grondilu sorry 2015-07-26
10:42 jnthn goto in Perl 6 is challenging because it involves non-local control flow, fwiw. :)
10:42 iH2O esp when you jump into the middle of a for loop
10:43 iH2O or into the middle of foreign code :-P
10:43 psch yeah, the bits of our CX handling i'm starting to understand makes me think goto is somewhat terrifying
10:43 psch iH2O: well, you'd probably need a label there already to jump to it
10:43 grondilu joined #perl6
10:47 iH2O C has longjmp/setjmp which are more general than goto
10:47 iH2O ive never heard of anybody using that, not even in a lifetime
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10:49 jast I believe it's often used for implementing coroutines
10:50 jnthn It's used in MoarVM :)
10:50 DrForr Continuation-based servers in general as well.
10:51 iH2O i stand corrected...
10:51 dalek perl6.org: c95d631 | (Steve Mynott)++ | source/ (2 files):
10:51 dalek perl6.org: bump Rakudo Star to 2016.07
10:51 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/c95d631455
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11:00 Psy-Q hmm
11:00 Psy-Q i think perl6 will at some point reach self-awareness and usher in the singularity
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11:11 stmuk http://rakudo.org/2016/07/22/announce-rakudo-star-release-2016-07/
11:12 iH2O i just downloaded it
11:14 iH2O perl6 has huge potential once it ushers into the noncult
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11:16 unmatched} weeeeee \o/ stmuck++
11:16 unmatched} I encourage everyone to advertise the new release all over the place.
11:16 unmatched} Will anyone be posting an announcement on blogs.perl.org?
11:24 iH2O why dont u folks use xz instead of gz for rakudo star distribution
11:24 unmatched} I can do it. Just don't want to double-post if someone already is. It's a pretty trafficed blog
11:24 iH2O it compresses 25%_ beter
11:25 Psy-Q weekend project will be porting a script from bash to perl6 that you can use to stream from a swiss "cloud TV service"
11:25 stmuk unmatched: more publicity the better! please do
11:25 unmatched} Sweet. Will do.
11:25 Psy-Q i'll find out everything about spawning and controlling processes, i guess
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11:36 stmuk https://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/4u2buv/announce_rakudo_star_release_201607/
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11:44 P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $var = "name"~$i; my $$var = "toto1"; say "$name1";
11:44 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot declare a variable by indirect name (use a hash instead?)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $i = 1; my $var = "name"~$i; my $7⏏5$var = "toto1"; say "$name1";␤»
11:44 P6fr ?
11:45 P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $var = "name"~$i; my &$var = "toto1"; say "$name1";
11:45 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot declare a variable by indirect name (use a hash instead?)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $i = 1; my $var = "name"~$i; my &7⏏5$var = "toto1"; say "$name1";␤»
11:48 jnthn Like the error says, you can't declare a variable with a dynamic name in Perl 6.
11:48 jnthn You can access existing variables by name using ::(...)
11:49 jnthn m: my $x1 = 42; my $x2 = 99; say ::('$x' ~ <1 2>.pick) for ^5
11:49 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«99␤99␤99␤99␤99␤»
11:49 jnthn What're the odds...
11:49 jnthn m: my $x1 = 42; my $x2 = 99; say ::('$x' ~ <1 2>.pick) for ^5
11:49 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«99␤99␤42␤99␤99␤»
11:49 jnthn heh :)
11:49 * jnthn goes out to buy a lottery ticket :P
11:49 psch m: my $x; BEGIN $x = "foo"; sub term:[$x] is rw { $ }; foo = "bar"; say foo
11:49 P6fr hello jnthn  :)
11:49 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of $x in sink context (lines 1, 1)␤bar␤»
11:49 P6fr :: ?
11:50 psch the sink warning is kinda wrong i guess
11:50 jnthn psch: Decidedly.
11:50 jast I know what the odds are! :P
11:50 jnthn Reminds of you :: in packages
11:51 P6fr ok
11:53 jnthn In general though, Perl 6 really wants to know what is in a lexical scope at compile time. It uses this for a bunch of error checking and optimization.
11:54 P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::('$name'~'$i')
11:54 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    bla used at line 1␤␤»
11:55 P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::("$name"~"$i")
11:55 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$name' is not declared. Did you mean '$name1'?␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::("7⏏5$name"~"$i")␤»
11:55 jnthn You need single quotes, otherwise $name will try to be interpolated in the double quotes
11:56 P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::('&$name'~'$i')
11:56 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    bla used at line 1␤␤»
11:56 P6fr ok
11:57 alberg joined #perl6
11:57 P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::({'$name'~'$i'})
11:57 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    bla used at line 1␤␤»
11:58 P6fr m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::("$name$i")
11:58 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$name' is not declared. Did you mean '$name1'?␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $i = 1; my $name1 = bla; say ::("7⏏5$name$i")␤»
11:59 P6fr ok
11:59 P6fr hum
11:59 P6fr It must be a possibility
11:59 jnthn m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = 'bla'; say ::('$name'~'$i')
11:59 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«No such symbol '$name$i'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
11:59 jnthn m: my $i = 1; my $name1 = 'bla'; say ::('$name'~$i)
11:59 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«bla␤»
12:00 P6fr haaaa yes im stupid
12:00 P6fr thx
12:00 jnthn np
12:00 jnthn lunch &
12:01 P6fr im going to work
12:01 P6fr (i leave in france)
12:01 P6fr i live :(
12:01 RabidGravy :)
12:02 P6fr good day !
12:02 RabidGravy I'm sitting on the sofa wondering which of the squillion un-finished modules I should work on
12:03 RabidGravy I need the world to become more boring for a week or two
12:04 DrForr joined #perl6
12:08 [Coke] jdv79: sri ran himself out here. Calm down.
12:10 [Coke] I chatted with him after he left. I got the impression, no hard feelings, he just didn't want to talk about perl 6 anymore.
12:15 huggable joined #perl6
12:15 [Coke] (the calm down being aimed at you from HOURS ago so of course no longer relevant! whoops)
12:17 adu joined #perl6
12:17 unmatched} posted release announcement on blogs.perl.org http://blogs.perl.org/users/zoffix_znet/2016/07/announce-rakudo-star-perl-6-compiler-distribution-release-201607.html
12:21 nine ShimmerFairy: the sub must be our scoped (defaults to my)
12:22 ShimmerFairy ah, thanks :)
12:22 ufobat hi [Coke] :)
12:23 ufobat [Coke], i guess you were right, the v6.c was in it because of supporting old versions
12:23 ufobat is it a good idea just to have "latest" in it?
12:26 gfldex unmatched}: perl6.org needs to be updated with release info as well
12:27 unmatched} unmatched}: at which place?
12:28 gfldex unmatched}: Home the box at the top links to 2016.04
12:29 nine 2016.04? That's ancient!
12:29 hahainternet can you smartmatch against a seq? maybe I'm doing something dumb
12:29 hahainternet but wanted to do for example 1024 ~~ 1,2,4,8...*
12:29 unmatched} gfldex: which box at the top? On the homepage? Links to .07 for me.
12:29 Psy-Q a friend asked how suitable perl 6 might be for larger-scale projects with multiple authors. i said "surely no less suited than perl 5 was", but i'm thinking it's surely better-suited/
12:29 Psy-Q that sentence was supposed to end with "?"
12:29 hahainternet Psy-Q: it's got strong typing, so significantly better suited
12:30 gfldex unmatched}: i just hit the reload button and it's fine. sorry for the confusion
12:30 hahainternet (it also permits traits instead of monkey patching, so SIGNIFICANTLY better)
12:30 unmatched} No problem.
12:30 Psy-Q hahainternet: awesome, i'll tell him. he likes strongly typed languages :D
12:30 gfldex hahainternet: you may have to Junction the Seq
12:30 hahainternet gfldex: aaah of course
12:31 psch why not just (elem)?
12:31 psch m: my @a = ^10; my $seq = Seq.new(@a.iterator); say 5 (elem) $seq
12:31 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«True␤»
12:31 hahainternet interesting, i'm rebuilding rakudo atm so can't test
12:31 moritz m: say 5 (elem) ^10
12:31 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«True␤»
12:31 * psch was just being overly explicit about the Seq
12:32 moritz m: say 5 (elem) (^10).seq
12:32 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Method 'seq' not found for invocant of class 'Range'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
12:32 moritz m: say 5 (elem) (^10).Seq
12:32 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Method 'Seq' not found for invocant of class 'Range'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
12:32 hahainternet hmm, all i get is (...) output when combined with the sequence construct stuff
12:33 Jonis joined #perl6
12:33 hahainternet still building new version though and I might be doing something idiotic
12:33 unmatched} m: say -Inf...Inf
12:33 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(...)␤»
12:33 unmatched} m: say 4...5
12:33 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(4 5)␤»
12:33 hahainternet i guess you can't smartmatch against a non terminating sequence?
12:33 hahainternet i thought that was a 'range' though
12:34 unmatched} m: say 5 (elem) 1...Inf
12:34 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(...)␤»
12:34 unmatched} Interesting
12:34 unmatched} m: say 5 (elem) (1...Inf)
12:34 psch m: my $s = 1, 2, 4 ... *; say 8 (elem) eager $s # heh
12:34 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
12:34 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
12:34 unmatched} m: say 5 (elem) (1...Inf)
12:35 psch the SEGV was mine
12:35 unmatched} Ah
12:35 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
12:36 unmatched} hahainternet: it's a bit of a strange construct you got there. Effectivly, you're asking for a Yes or No answer, where a No answer leads to your program hanging.
12:36 psch m: my $s = 1, 2, 4 ... *; say eager $s
12:36 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
12:36 psch neat
12:36 psch j: my $s = 1, 2, 4 ... *; say eager $s
12:36 hahainternet unmatched}: indeed, but there are cases where it'd be detectable
12:36 hahainternet so for example 3 (elem) 1,2,4...*
12:36 jfuller joined #perl6
12:36 camelia rakudo-jvm cd19db: OUTPUT«␤(timeout)␤»
12:36 hahainternet sequence only increases, and 2 < 3 < 4
12:36 hahainternet ah well
12:37 psch well, yeah, with some introspection that could probably work
12:37 psch the last one
12:37 hahainternet i wonder how the subset works because i thought you could define an infinite subset
12:37 hahainternet maybe not
12:37 psch as in, when we know we have a derived generator function
12:37 hahainternet i appreciate there's an awful lot of complexity hre
12:37 jast if you start adding magic like that, you run the risk that you won't always be sure whether it terminates. not a good thing to abstract away...
12:38 hahainternet indeed, and it's not a dumb idea to terminate these seqs
12:38 unmatched} m: say 1, 2, 4 ... * < 10
12:38 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(1)␤»
12:38 unmatched} m: say (1, 2, 4 ... * < 10)
12:38 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(1)␤»
12:38 mcmillhj joined #perl6
12:38 unmatched} huh
12:38 hahainternet what i was trying to say is "is this value a common power of 2"
12:38 colomon joined #perl6
12:38 hahainternet which i can do by just limiting the seq to pow(2,64)
12:39 unmatched} hahainternet: isn't using logarithms a much better approach than generating a possibly huge sec?
12:40 hahainternet unmatched}: in terms of performance, sure
12:40 hahainternet in terms of succinct description? lol no
12:40 hahainternet if you're using Perl 6 for performance you've probably lost already :)
12:40 unmatched} m: sub p { log($^a)/log(2) %% 1 }; say p $_ for 4, 3, 256, 128, 42
12:40 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«True␤False␤True␤True␤False␤»
12:40 unmatched} There's a shorter way to write that too. I forget the function name.
12:41 hahainternet probably logdivmodthing :p
12:41 hahainternet but no it's fine, i know what i chose was inefficient
12:42 psch i'd prefer that function with a meaningful name (and maybe a line of doc) to generating a Seq, i think
12:42 unmatched} OK :)
12:42 hahainternet but i want to understand the limits of expression in p6
12:42 psch also, if you have an infinite lazy Seq you have to partition parts of it anyway, which blows up your "succint" way of checking for membership
12:43 hahainternet well $a (elem) @b is very very succinct
12:43 hahainternet so i was just playing with that concept
12:44 jnthn unmatched}: polymod maybe?
12:45 unmatched} Nah, still log, but in method form:
12:45 unmatched} m: sub p { $^a.log(2) %% 1 }; say p $_ for 4, 3, 256, 128, 42
12:45 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«True␤False␤True␤True␤False␤»
12:46 psch hahainternet: right, but you have to do something like "my @part-of-b = @b[$low...$high]; $a (elem) @part-of-b; ($low,$high) [X+]= $high + 1, $high - $low" instead, if you want to be able to bail
12:46 unmatched} Well.. with additional argument I guess, 'cuase this works too
12:46 unmatched} m: sub p { log($^a,2) %% 1 }; say p $_ for 4, 3, 256, 128, 42
12:46 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«True␤False␤True␤True␤False␤»
12:47 psch well, minus little arithmetic error i made there :P
12:47 psch +the
12:47 hahainternet psch: no i don't disagree at all
12:47 hahainternet i'm not saying that what i wanted was smart or good
12:47 hahainternet was just playing about :)
12:48 psch i didn't think you were disagreeing, just wanted to elaborate how i'd do this if i was bend on using (elem) against a Seq :)
12:49 hahainternet :)
12:49 hahainternet yeah that is the better way to do it for sure
12:49 hahainternet < 8 mins to build rakudo on slow machine still
12:49 hahainternet very nice
12:49 hahainternet going to be hilarious when i replace this machine with some intel extreme edition processor
12:49 hanwei_ joined #perl6
12:50 unmatched} It'd likely won't improve much :)
12:50 psch also, can i just say i really dig how [] grouping allows messing with metaop assign
12:50 hahainternet unmatched}: lets check on a 3770k a little bit overclocked
12:51 hahainternet with a moderate root ssd, only an 850 pro or so
12:51 psch like the [X+]= above, or [R//]= which is just awesome
12:51 hahainternet ooh, R//?
12:51 hahainternet roll up defined? something like that?
12:51 unmatched} Reverse
12:51 psch R is metaop reverse
12:51 hahainternet aaah
12:51 colomon joined #perl6
12:52 sufrostico joined #perl6
12:52 psch m: my $x = "foo"; my $b; $x [R//]= $b; say $x; $b = "bar"; $x [R//]= $b; say $x
12:52 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤»
12:52 psch that's just great imo
12:53 psch equivalent to '$x = $b // $x', which is a thing that damian wanted in his talk iirc
12:53 psch although i totally get not throwing [R//]= at people that want to learn why they might want to learn Perl 6 :
12:53 psch :)
12:53 unmatched} :D
12:54 unmatched} m: sub infix:<♥> { $^a ~ $^b }; say [R♥] 'Perl 6', 'Love ';
12:54 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Love Perl 6␤»
12:54 unmatched} ^_^
12:55 unmatched} m: sub infix:<♥> { $^a ~ $^b }; say [RRRRR♥] 'Perl 6', 'Love ';
12:55 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Love Perl 6␤»
12:55 DrForr Incidentally the test suite parses the infix:<♥> construct.
12:56 unmatched} I don't see it
12:57 unmatched} Everything that shows up for grep -R '♥' https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/52728fa072f7ceca1fd5aeba7c6e96e5
12:58 psch m: say "Perl 6" R[&({ [R[&infix:<~>]] $^b, " ", $^a })] "Love"
12:58 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Love Perl 6␤»
12:58 unmatched} :D
12:58 unmatched} psch++
12:59 psch m: [R[&say]] "Perl 6" R[&({ [R[&infix:<~>]] $^b, " ", $^a })] "Love" # why stop there?!
12:59 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Love Perl 6␤»
13:00 parabolize how do you uninstall a old version of a module with zef? `zef uninstall "DBIish:ver('0.5.8')"` is giving me a error
13:01 dalek doc: 968bad5 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | META.info:
13:01 dalek doc: add Pod::To::BigPage as dependency
13:01 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/968bad5a72
13:01 hahainternet 2 min 56 secs
13:01 hahainternet to build moar
13:01 hahainternet on an actual machine that's fast
13:02 jnthn Rakudo moar or just MoarVM itself?
13:05 molaf joined #perl6
13:06 nine Sounds very much like a full rakudo to me
13:12 lucasb_ joined #perl6
13:13 lucasb_ hello o/
13:13 DrForr Aftenoon.
13:13 lucasb_ I think I may have found a segfault, but it only works in the REPL
13:14 lucasb_ can someone confirm it for me?
13:14 lucasb_ type this in the standard REPL:
13:14 lucasb_ "abc".starts-with(42 does role { method Str { 42 } })
13:15 psch heh
13:16 psch a .Str that returns an Int is a neat infloop i suppose
13:16 psch although, yeah, that should just eat all your mem and not segfault
13:16 unmatched} m: "abc".starts-with(42 does role { method Str { 42 } })
13:16 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 81920 bytes␤»
13:16 lucasb_ psch: so it does segfault in your repl too?
13:17 * unmatched} doesn't wanna try :)
13:17 Actualeyes joined #perl6
13:17 psch i don't have moar build actually
13:17 psch i usually don't build it at all vOv
13:17 perlpilot lucasb_: how long does it take to segfault?
13:17 lucasb_ perlpilot: instantly
13:17 unmatched} I actually get "This type cannot unbox to a native string: P6opaque, Int+{<anon|90832064>}"
13:17 unmatched} 2016.06-10-g7cff429 built on MoarVM version 2016.06
13:17 lucasb_ if its not the repl, then it seems too consumes lots of memory, then I kill it
13:17 perlpilot lucasb_: it does not do that for me.   It sits there doing nothing.
13:18 perlpilot This is Rakudo version 2016.07.1-23-gb519088 built on MoarVM version 2016.07-3-gc01472d
13:18 lucasb_ perlpilot: ok, thanks for testing :)
13:18 unmatched} Sits there doing nothing for me on 2016.07.1-12-g58dc8c6 built on MoarVM version 2016.07 too
13:18 lucasb_ This is Rakudo version 2016.07 built on MoarVM version 2016.07
13:20 perlpilot and, yes, it's slowly eating all my RAM  :)
13:20 lucasb_ anyway... I was justing testing that a subroutine signature of 'sub f(A(B) $x)' actually enforced that the argument was of type of A, but it doesn't seems to enforce it
13:20 lucasb_ I mean, method A in class B can return whatever it wants... no need to be type of A
13:21 psch how did you conclude that if the snippet dies?
13:21 lucasb_ psch: that was another snippet... let me paste something here :)
13:22 psch oh, sure
13:23 lucasb_ m: class C { method Int { 'oh hai' } }; sub f(Int(C) $x) { say $x.WHAT }; f(C.new)
13:23 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
13:23 dalek doc: 0676896 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | META.info:
13:23 dalek doc: put dependency in the right spot
13:23 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/067689695e
13:23 psch ah, neat
13:24 psch i suppose that's a bit too trusting in implementation :)
13:24 psch i mean, i too would generally trust that coercer methods actually coerce to the type they are named after, but the language probably should check
13:24 gfldex is the type check in :(Str $s) calling ACCEPTS?
13:25 psch gfldex: no, it's (eventually) doing nqp::istype()
13:26 psch gfldex: the (moar) Binder sits in src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.nqp, bind_one_param the specific function to look at here
13:26 lucasb_ yeah, idk if it's clear if it should enforce or not (i.e., it's programmer problem, not a compiler problem). Just like in Ruby, when classes define a 'to_s' method that doesn't return strings
13:26 perlpilot lucasb_: good bug find.
13:26 perlpilot lucasb_: It should enforce.
13:26 psch lucasb_: the Binder definitely should enforce it
13:27 psch lucasb_: i don't think we can enforce the return type of overwritten methods though :)
13:27 psch so forcing people to only write "method Int" that actually returns Int is probably out (in sensible ways at least)
13:27 gfldex m: class C { method Int { Nil } }; sub f(Int(C) $x) { say $x.WHAT }; f(C.new)
13:27 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
13:27 gfldex what should happen in that case?
13:28 perlpilot Or ... from S02:590:  The type outside the parens indicates the desired end result, and subsequent code may depend on it being that type.
13:28 synopsebot6 Link: http://design.perl6.org/S02.html#line_590
13:28 psch m: sub f(Int $) { }; f Nil
13:28 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling f(Nil) will never work with declared signature (Int)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub f(Int $) { }; 7⏏5f Nil␤»
13:28 perlpilot (yes, I know those are specifications, but they are the design from which the spec sprung)
13:28 gfldex some elaborate coercion may have no choice but return Nul
13:28 psch m: say Nil.isa(Int)
13:28 camelia rakudo-moar d789da: OUTPUT«False␤»
13:29 psch gfldex: so it's a dispatch failure, just like now?
13:29 nightfrog joined #perl6
13:31 gfldex as long as the run time error can be caught with try, it can be handled i guess
13:31 psch m: sub f(Int $) { }; try f Nil
13:31 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling f(Nil) will never work with declared signature (Int)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub f(Int $) { }; try 7⏏5f Nil␤»
13:31 psch it's a compile time error
13:31 hanwei_ joined #perl6
13:31 gfldex in that case, but may not be in the coercion type case
13:32 hanwei_ joined #perl6
13:32 psch right, that depends on what the coercion method declares as return type
13:32 hanwei_ joined #perl6
13:32 psch i'm not really able of thinking of a case where something might sometimes be coerceable but not always
13:33 hanwei_ joined #perl6
13:33 psch i also wonder if that shouldn't be handled by the coercer itself, which would let this die before the binder
13:33 gfldex m: sub f(-->Str){ Nil }; say f;
13:33 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
13:34 hanwei_ joined #perl6
13:34 gfldex you never know what some foreign code will return
13:35 psch right, which is why it should be handled as soon as possible, which would probably not be the type check in the Binder, but the coercer
13:35 * perlpilot suddenly imagines gfldex speaking in a Forrest Gump voice
13:35 psch assuming whatever the foreign code that was called returned is wrapped in the class that should be coerced
13:36 hanwei_ joined #perl6
13:38 gfldex m: sub f(-->Str:D){ Nil }; say f; # i don't like this
13:38 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
13:38 unmatched} R* announcement in r/programming is doing surprisingly well. 78% upvoted so far: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4u2fge/announce_rakudo_star_perl_6_compiler_distribution/
13:38 unmatched} Compared to my usual experience with Perl 6 blogs, where they get actively downvoted by majority :P
13:38 perlpilot 89% now  :)
13:39 unmatched} .oO(I guess that says more about my blogs than r/programming :))
13:39 skids joined #perl6
13:39 perlpilot unmatched}: also ... it's early yet.
13:39 unmatched} :)
13:40 sufrostico joined #perl6
13:44 gfldex m: sub f(-->Str:D){ Nil }; my Str:D $s = f; say $s; # i don't like this even less
13:44 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(Str:D)␤»
13:45 gfldex Str:D is an undefined defined value
13:45 dalek Inline-Perl5: 5e3df66 | niner++ | / (3 files):
13:45 dalek Inline-Perl5: Inline::Perl5::global for accessing Perl 5's global variables
13:45 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/5e3df6656f
13:46 gfldex m: sub f(-->Str:D){ Nil }; my Str:D $s = f; say $s; $s = Nil; dd $s;
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(Str:D)␤Str:D $s = Str:D␤»
13:47 gfldex m: sub f(-->Str:D){ Nil }; my Str:D $s = f; say $s; $s = Nil; dd $s.defined;
13:47 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(Str:D)␤Bool::False␤»
13:49 gfldex m: my Int:D $i = Nil;
13:49 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: ( no output )
13:49 dalek doc: 96297a3 | cognominal++ | doc/Language/phasers.pod6:
13:49 dalek doc: CLOSE phaser
13:49 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/96297a3039
13:49 gfldex m: my Int:D $i = Nil; say 1 / $i;
13:49 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Parameter 'de' requires an instance of type Int:D, but a type object was passed.  Did you forget a .new?␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
13:50 perlpilot nine: Does that work for the ${^VARS} too ?  (${^MATCH}, ${^PREMATCH}, ${^POSTMATCH}, etc.)
13:55 gfldex m: my Int:D $i is default(Failure.new("undefined value"); $i = Nil;
13:55 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot use variable $i in declaration to initialize itself␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3efault(Failure.new("undefined value"); $7⏏5i = Nil;␤    expecting any of:␤        term␤»
13:55 gfldex m: my Int:D $i is default(Failure.new("undefined value") = Nil; $i = Nil;
13:55 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot use variable $i in declaration to initialize itself␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3(Failure.new("undefined value") = Nil; $7⏏5i = Nil;␤    expecting any of:␤        term␤»
13:56 lizmat nine: if the $p5 object doesn't do Associative yet, maybe it is an idea to just implement AT-KEY on it, that does a sefl.global() ?
13:56 lizmat so you can say $p5<$@> ?
13:56 nine perlpilot: doesn't look like it does. Could be because those are only available with use English;
13:57 gfldex m: my Str $i is default(Failure.new("undefined value"));
13:57 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Default value '(HANDLED) undefined value␤  in any  at src/Perl6/World.nqp line 2202␤  in any trait_mod:sym<is> at gen/moar/m-Perl6-Actions.nqp line 5059␤  in any trait_mod:sym<is> at src/Perl6/Grammar.…»
13:57 nine lizmat: sounds neat but I don't expect most users to actually deal with a $p5 object but just use Net::LDAP:from<Perl5>; ... ; say %*PERL5<$@>;
13:58 lizmat nine: ah, ok, I was just inspired by your test case in t/globals.t  :-)
13:58 nine lizmat: /win 14
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14:10 gfldex m: my Int:D $i = sub f(){Nil}(); my Int:D $j = 1; $j = $i; dd $i;
14:10 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $j; expected Int:D but got Int:D␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:10 gfldex LTA
14:11 Ven joined #perl6
14:11 Ven .tell cognominal https://medium.com/@octskyward/graal-truffle-134d8f28fb69 thought about you :)
14:11 yoleaux Ven: I'll pass your message to cognominal.
14:19 gfldex m: my Int:D $i = sub f(){Nil}(); my Int:D $j = $i; dd $i;
14:19 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $j; expected Int:D but got Int:D␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:20 ugexe m: package XXX { our &foo is export = -> $a, $b  { $a + $b }; our &bar is export = -> $a, $b { foo($a, $b) }; }; import XXX; &foo .= assuming(1); &bar .= assuming(1); say foo(100); say &bar(100); # Can I do something like this where I create lexical copy of XXX::foo and XXX::bar with a default argument without applying to calls within package XXX itself?
14:20 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«101␤Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2␤  in sub __PRIMED_ANON at EVAL_2 line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:24 iH2O joined #perl6
14:26 dalek doc: fbb443e | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/ (2 files):
14:26 dalek doc: doc consequences of f(-->Int:D){Nil}
14:26 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fbb443ed73
14:26 ptolemarch joined #perl6
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14:27 hwcomcn joined #perl6
14:28 hwcomcn joined #perl6
14:31 skids m: my Str:D $f; $f.say
14:31 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable definition of type Str:D requires an initializer␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my Str:D $f7⏏5; $f.say␤    expecting any of:␤        constraint␤»
14:32 skids I'm thinking maybe the "= Nil" behavior should likewise throw, no?
14:32 hwcomcn joined #perl6
14:32 skids The reason Nil can be returned from --> Str:D subs is a different matter.
14:33 skids (having to do with always having an escape route for failure)
14:33 gfldex my guess is that it only checks if there is an initialiser but not if the value is actually defined
14:33 hwcomcn joined #perl6
14:34 skids m: my Str:D $f = Str:D; $f.say
14:34 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $f; expected Str:D but got Str:D␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:34 gfldex m: sub f(-->Int:D){ return Failure.new("oi!")}; say f();
14:34 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«oi!␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:34 gfldex m: sub f(-->Int:D){ return Failure.new("oi!")}; my Int:D $i =  f();
14:34 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Earlier failure:␤ oi!␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Final error:␤ Type check failed in assignment to $i; expected Int:D but got Failure (Failure.new(exception...)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:35 kid51 joined #perl6
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14:36 gfldex in my eyes the Failure should blow at the return type check, not at the assignment
14:38 skids I dunno I'm no expert but my inclinantion is that assigning Nil to a :D variable that has no (defined) default should not behave that way.
14:39 dalek doc: 4edb119 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Nil.pod6:
14:39 dalek doc: fix typo
14:39 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4edb1190af
14:39 unmatched} There's a ticket for that
14:39 skids But maybe the way to fix it is to have them have some sort of poisonous explosive default.
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14:40 gfldex unmatched}: if you can find that ticket, could you add a note for https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fbb443ed73 please?
14:43 skids m: my Str:D $f is default("foo"); $f.say # this seems to work right
14:43 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«foo␤»
14:43 unmatched} perlpilot: well, you were right :) It was too early. The reddit post has now devolved to a handfull of idiots making fun of the logo or that /??? docs URL is written as $QUESTION_MARK.... Rather than, you know, the actual language :D
14:44 sammers hello from Japam
14:45 skids o/
14:45 sammers s/Japam/Japan/
14:45 unmatched} gfldex: here's the ticket: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=127958#ticket-history
14:47 zacts joined #perl6
14:48 gfldex .tell TimToady your judgment on `my Int:D $i = Nil` and `sub f(-->Int:D){Nil}` is required
14:48 yoleaux gfldex: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
14:48 iH2O left #perl6
14:49 ugexe as a computer janitor im upset at the prospect of having to learn a new language and will be very vocal about it
14:50 unmatched} ugexe++
14:50 [Coke] I think that has already been judged, gfldex.
14:51 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1: 2a5474a | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6:
14:51 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1: add operator classifications to the Index
14:51 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1:
14:51 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1: In the spirit of https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/728, adding operator classifications to the index.
14:51 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2a5474accb
14:51 [Coke] What's the expected result?
14:51 prammer joined #perl6
14:52 [Coke] oh, you're posting that here after a discussion elsewhere... catching up...
14:52 gfldex m: sub f(Int:D $i){}; f(Nil);
14:52 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding $i; expected Int but got Nil (Nil)␤  in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:52 gfldex i expect the same as in ^^^
14:55 gfldex m: my Int:D $i = Nil; sub f(Int:D $i){}; f($i);
14:55 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Parameter '$i' requires an instance of type Int:D, but a type object was passed.  Did you forget a .new?␤  in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:55 psch the initializer is special in type smilied cases
14:55 psch seems pretty clearly DIHWIDT to me
14:56 psch but i'm not TimToady and don't expect anyone to just believe me on that :)
14:56 gfldex problem is that $i = Nil and f($i) can be in different modules at opposing sides of the planet. If you don't know that Int:D is by no means a guarantee for definedness you may spend quite some time to figure that on out.
14:57 psch don't use underdefined initializers on type smilied constraint variables
14:57 psch m: my Int:D $x = 0; $x = Nil
14:57 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: ( no output )
14:57 psch well, there goes my argument :)
14:57 psch so, yeah, that definitely shouldn't be allowed, gfldex++
14:59 gfldex at least it's not contagious and will blow on many buildin subs and operators
15:01 arnsholt nqp: my @not-an-array := 1; # Perverse? Surely, you're joking!
15:01 camelia nqp-moarvm: ( no output )
15:01 arnsholt nqp: my @not-an-array := 1; nqp::say("alive"); # Perverse? Surely, you're joking!
15:01 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«alive␤»
15:01 psch m: my @not-an-array := 1; say "alive"
15:01 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected Positional but got Int (1)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
15:01 arnsholt nqp: my @not-an-array; @not-an-array := 1; nqp::say("alive"); # What about this one?
15:01 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«alive␤»
15:01 arnsholt Yeah, that's what I thought
15:02 psch nqp: my @a; say(nqp::what(@a))
15:02 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«␤»
15:02 psch nqp: my @a; say(nqp::how(@a))
15:02 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«cannot stringify this␤   at gen/moar/stage2/NQPCORE.setting:714  (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/NQPCORE.setting.moarvm:join)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQPCORE.setting:703  (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/NQPCORE.setting.moarvm:say)␤ fr…»
15:02 psch nqp: my @a; say(nqp::how(@a).name(nqp::how(@a))
15:02 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "say(nqp::h"␤   at gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:706  (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:panic)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQP.nqp:927  (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/nqp.moarvm:comp_unit)␤ from gen/moar…»
15:02 psch nqp: my @a; say(nqp::how(@a).name(nqp::how(@a)))
15:02 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«NQPArray␤»
15:02 arnsholt @ and % in NQP are mostly for the user, and their autoviv behaviour when they don't have an assignment with the declaration
15:02 psch well, it does know it is an array :)
15:02 parabolize ugexe: this seems to work https://gist.github.com/parabolize/9800f3739022c5a0d33f5ff291cbc76c
15:03 psch nqp: my @a := 1; say(nqp::how(@a).name(nqp::how(@a)))
15:03 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«BOOTInt␤»
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15:03 Flying_Squirrel Hi all
15:03 arnsholt psch: If there's no added initializer, it's initialized to nqp::list/nqp:hash (modulo @/%)
15:03 psch arnsholt: it seems ok-ish to me, with how we only do binding
15:03 perlpilot Flying_Squirrel: greetings
15:03 arnsholt Yeah, definitely. I just got to thinking about this and wondered what the exact semantics were
15:04 psch yeah, it's an interesting bit of "we elide lots of consistency checks"
15:04 psch on the nqp level that is
15:04 dalek doc: b6d8a16 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | t/00-load.t:
15:04 dalek doc: add test as travis is not showing installed dependencies
15:04 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b6d8a166e3
15:04 Flying_Squirrel while reading about main differences between Perl 5 and 6 I read about the namespaces and I would to find a source that explains why such choices were made. Where shall I start?
15:05 arnsholt psch: Yeah. Or alternatively, the semantics of NQP are different from Perl 6
15:05 moritz Flying_Squirrel: what specifically are you refering to, re namespaces?
15:06 gfldex Flying_Squirrel: you may find some exlanations in http://design.perl6.org/
15:06 Flying_Squirrel oh sorry, I'm not quite sure about the keyword : like the symbol before the variable names that is different in Perl 5
15:07 moritz Flying_Squirrel: ah, sigils
15:07 moritz Flying_Squirrel: basically, it caused lots of confusion in p5
15:08 Flying_Squirrel I thought it was pretty straightforward but I'm still learning, maybe I got it wrong
15:08 moritz Flying_Squirrel: newbies assume that $a[$index] access a variable $a, not @a
15:08 Flying_Squirrel moritz: ok
15:09 gfldex Flying_Squirrel: it got even more confusing when references where involved
15:09 ugexe parabolize++ thats what I needed
15:09 Flying_Squirrel gfldex: ah?
15:10 gfldex Flying_Squirrel: perl -e 'my @a; my $b = \@a; $b->[1] = 42; print @$b;' # 42
15:11 unmatched} Now all the newbies get confused about why $a can have a List in it too :P
15:11 gfldex Flying_Squirrel: and that's a simple example
15:11 dainis joined #perl6
15:11 psch unmatched}: well, it could before, it just was a reference with syntactic overhead
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15:12 travis-ci joined #perl6
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15:12 travis-ci Doc build failed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'add test as travis is not showing installed dependencies'
15:12 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146670633 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/4edb1190afbb...b6d8a166e37e
15:12 travis-ci left #perl6
15:12 gfldex unmatched}: what proves the waterbed theory of confusion
15:12 travis-ci joined #perl6
15:12 travis-ci Doc build passed. Christopher Bottoms 'add operator classifications to the Index
15:12 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146667157 https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2a5474accb85
15:12 travis-ci left #perl6
15:12 psch unmatched}: so, again, the same consistency argument applies: the sigil stays the same, even if you have a container container
15:13 canopus joined #perl6
15:14 unmatched} psch: Perl 5's sigils also have a consistency argument: $ = one thing; @ = many things; % = named things
15:14 Flying_Squirrel gfldex: so basically in your example, you define an array a, and then a variable b that contains a reference to a (like C pointers ?), then use b to access a and assign a value to hmm.. yup got lost along the way
15:14 unmatched} So those trained on that argument now get confused why $ = [one thing|many things|named things] in Perl 6
15:14 psch unmatched}: oh, definitely.  i'm not arguing against this waterbedding
15:14 Flying_Squirrel *got me lost
15:15 Flying_Squirrel I'm especially confused with the @$b
15:15 psch Flying_Squirrel: that just means @{$b} ;)
15:15 psch scnr
15:15 harmil joined #perl6
15:16 unmatched} Flying_Squirrel: cheat sheet: https://juerd.nl/site.plp/perlcheat  I believe the author also has an excellent guide to Perl 5's sigils, though I forget the link. #perl might know it
15:16 Flying_Squirrel unmatched}: thanks
15:17 dalek doc: 2a5474a | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6:
15:17 dalek doc: add operator classifications to the Index
15:17 dalek doc:
15:17 dalek doc: In the spirit of https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/728, adding operator classifications to the index.
15:17 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2a5474accb
15:17 dalek doc: 7f939bd | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6:
15:17 dalek doc: Merge pull request #741 from perl6/molecules-patch-1
15:17 dalek doc:
15:17 dalek doc: add operator classifications to the Index
15:17 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7f939bdd62
15:17 harmil Dunno if my last message made it, so: in finding all of the Unicode balanced bracketing characters (https://goo.gl/4P2kWW) I found an interesting bug in uniname: it sets its parameter to Any :-)
15:17 xinming_ joined #perl6
15:18 psch harmil: care to demonstrate?
15:18 unmatched} huggable: test
15:19 harmil Of course, now I'm trying to come up with the minimal example and it's not repeating. :-)
15:19 * timotimo made it home alive
15:19 psch harmil: you can also paste your more expansive code on gist.github.com and feed that to camelia
15:19 [Coke] anyone see how to change the listening port on Bailador?
15:20 * [Coke] found it
15:20 harmil Here's the whole thing (reduced only in the range of codepoints it checks):
15:20 harmil m: my @ends; for ^0x00ff -> $i { my $c = try { $i.chr }; next if !$c.defined or $c eq "("; next unless $c ~~ /<:Ps>|<:Pi>/; my $end = :16(uniprop($c, "Bidi_Mirroring_Glyph")); next unless $end.defined; $end = $end.chr; say("'$c' {uniname($c)} ~ '$end' {uniname($end)}") }
15:20 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«'[' LEFT SQUARE BRACKET ~ ']' RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET␤'{' LEFT CURLY BRACKET ~ '}' RIGHT CURLY BRACKET␤'«' LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK ~ '»' RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK␤»
15:20 dalek doc: 7e0050e | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | .travis.yml:
15:20 dalek doc: force panda to update module list
15:20 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7e0050ec01
15:21 hoelzro joined #perl6
15:21 harmil Oh, interesting: For me those brace-characters do NOT print!
15:21 harmil recently fixed?
15:21 sammers joined #perl6
15:21 psch star-m: my @ends; for ^0x00ff -> $i { my $c = try { $i.chr }; next if !$c.defined or $c eq "("; next unless $c ~~ /<:Ps>|<:Pi>/; my $end = :16(uniprop($c, "Bidi_Mirroring_Glyph")); next unless $end.defined; $end = $end.chr; say("'$c' {uniname($c)} ~ '$end' {uniname($end)}") }
15:21 camelia star-m 2016.04: OUTPUT«'[' LEFT SQUARE BRACKET ~ ']' RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET␤'{' LEFT CURLY BRACKET ~ '}' RIGHT CURLY BRACKET␤'«' LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK ~ '»' RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK␤»
15:21 psch works since 2016.04, apparently :)
15:21 unmatched} [Coke]: pass it to baile
15:22 unmatched} [Coke]: https://github.com/ufobat/Bailador/blob/master/lib/Bailador.pm#L90
15:22 harmil I'm on moar 2016.06-9-g8fc21d5
15:22 psch harmil: maybe some terminal font hiccup?
15:25 huggable joined #perl6
15:25 harmil psch: no, it's "Any" very specifically.
15:26 psch harmil: well, in that case i'd recommend upgrading :)
15:26 harmil Though this is REALLY weird:
15:26 harmil I do : $ perl6 -e 'my $i = 0x005b; my $c = $i.chr; my $end = :16(uniprop($c, "Bidi_Mirroring_Glyph")); $end .= chr; say("{$i.fmt("%04x")}: '$c' {uniname($c)} ~ '$end' {uniname($end)}"); say "c = {$c.perl}"'
15:26 unmatched} bisect: my @ends; for ^0x00ff -> $i { my $c = try { $i.chr }; next if !$c.defined or $c eq "("; next unless $c ~~ /<:Ps>|<:Pi>/; my $end = :16(uniprop($c, "Bidi_Mirroring_Glyph")); next unless $end.defined; $end = $end.chr; say("'$c' {uniname($c)} ~ '$end' {uniname($end)}") }
15:26 bisectable unmatched}: On both starting points the exit code is 0 and the output is identical as well
15:26 bisectable unmatched}: Output on both points: '[' LEFT SQUARE BRACKET ~ ']' RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET␤'{' LEFT CURLY BRACKET ~ '}' RIGHT CURLY BRACKET␤'«' LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK ~ '»' RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
15:26 perlpilot_ joined #perl6
15:26 harmil And I get: 005b:  LEFT SQUARE BRACKET ~  RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET
15:27 harmil followed by the correct $c "["
15:27 unmatched} harmil: you got unescaped ' in there
15:27 harmil OFFS!
15:27 harmil unmatched}: thanks
15:28 unmatched} :)
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15:28 travis-ci Doc build failed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'force panda to update module list'
15:28 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146674601 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/7f939bdd62e2...7e0050ec0117
15:28 travis-ci left #perl6
15:28 Juerd unmatched}: I have no guide to Perl 5 sigils.
15:29 unmatched} Juerd: oh, then I'm mistaking you for someone else :)
15:30 Juerd I can do a guido on Perl 5 sigils though
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15:30 Juerd Here: % is for hashes, @ is for arrays and slices, $ is for single items (scalars, hash elements, array elements), $# is the last index of an array.
15:30 Juerd * is for globs, & is for subs.
15:31 Juerd I believe this is a complete overview :)
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15:33 dalek doc/wiki-entries-cleanup: 9ac245b | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6:
15:33 dalek doc/wiki-entries-cleanup: This commit *removes* glossary items which are just pointers to Wikipedia and local links to them
15:33 dalek doc/wiki-entries-cleanup: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9ac245b216
15:33 Juerd Now, let's do a Perl 6 overview: % is for hashes (including slices and single items), @ is for arrays (including slices and single items), $ is for scalars, & is for subs, :: is for packages
15:33 Juerd And Perl 6 has twigils. Way too many.
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15:35 psch it's only 9 twigils... https://docs.perl6.org/language/variables#index-entry-Twigil
15:35 unmatched} gfldex: I think a fresh build of panda would be updated, so the update isn't needed. From what I can see, install craps out with LWP::Simple install and that's why Pod::To::BigPage isn't installed
15:35 gfldex i have no idea why travis doesn't install that module and am investigating in a clean VM locally
15:35 psch and some are really rare, like : for example
15:36 unmatched} There's some output if you expand the 'panda installdeps .' step on travis
15:37 gfldex BigPage implements P<> so LWD::Simple is mandatory
15:38 unmatched} Maybe --force on panda?
15:38 gfldex i'm on it
15:39 harmil Perl 5 unicode handling I will never quite get... I think I'm going to stick to Perl 6 for my unicode work.
15:39 unmatched} :)
15:39 unmatched} weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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15:41 timotimo are the champions
15:41 unmatched} The LWP::Simple test that's failing on travis works fine on my box.
15:41 timotimo my frieeennd~
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15:43 travis-ci Doc build passed. Christopher Bottoms 'Merge pull request #741 from perl6/molecules-patch-1
15:43 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146673809 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/b6d8a166e37e...7f939bdd62e2
15:43 travis-ci left #perl6
15:44 unmatched} Or even --notests instead of --force. Save time in builds (and avoid hanging tests)
15:45 gfldex i think the whole point of travis is to test
15:45 dalek doc: dc85695 | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Date.pod6:
15:45 dalek doc: succ/pred explanation
15:45 dalek doc:
15:45 dalek doc: Some people (like me before today) have never heard of pred/succ functions, so a one sentence explanation each will probably be helpful.
15:45 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/dc856953a2
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15:54 unmatched} Fair enough :)
15:55 zacts joined #perl6
15:55 gfldex unmatched}: after looking at the test however, I have to agree. LWP::Simple depends on the cooperation of the intarwebs.
15:55 dalek doc: 8210e65 | cognominal++ | doc/Language/phasers.pod6:
15:55 dalek doc: DOC phaser
15:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8210e654be
15:57 sammers m: say '1: word, 2: word, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :x(1) );
15:57 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1: , 2: word, 3: word␤»
15:57 sammers hmm
15:57 sammers is there a way to delete every occurance exluding the first match?
15:57 user9 joined #perl6
15:57 sammers m: say '1: word, 2: word, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :x(2) );
15:57 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1: , 2: , 3: word␤»
15:58 unmatched} m: say '1: word, 2: word, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :!x(1) );
15:58 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Argument not allowed on negated pair with key 'x'␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3rd, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :!x(7⏏1) );␤»
15:58 psch m: say '1: word, 2: word, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :nd(2..*) );
15:58 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1: word, 2: , 3: ␤»
15:58 dalek doc: 8e6e303 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | .travis.yml:
15:58 dalek doc: we may not want to depend on the internet for tests
15:58 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8e6e303591
15:58 sammers cool
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15:59 psch alternatively :st, :rd or :th
16:00 psch or even :nth
16:00 sammers that is great
16:00 sammers thanks
16:00 psch :nth is probably the most readable if you're not going for the colonpair shorthand
16:00 rmmm joined #perl6
16:00 psch like, :1st, :2nd, :3rd, :4th look neat, but :st(1) kinda doesn't
16:01 gfldex m: say '1: word, 2: word, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :nth(2..*) );
16:01 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1: word, 2: , 3: ␤»
16:01 unmatched} m: say '1: word, 2: word, 3: word'.subst( / 'word' /, '', :2th );
16:01 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1: word, 2: , 3: word␤»
16:01 unmatched} XD
16:03 psch yeah, it works better in Date.later
16:03 psch i mean, ':$st where * == 1' is probably something we could put in the sig there, but otoh why bother? :)
16:03 psch the subst sig that is
16:03 iH2O ok
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16:03 14WAAAB8X Doc build passed. Christopher Bottoms 'succ/pred explanation
16:03 14WAAAB8X https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146680935 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/7e0050ec0117...dc856953a210
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16:03 Juerd psch: I find 9 twigils about 6 too many.
16:04 unmatched} heh
16:04 psch Juerd: which do you think should leave?
16:05 Juerd psch: Everything that isn't used by regular programmers on a regular basis. Let's keep <. ! ^>
16:05 dalek doc: 4518bc3 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Str.pod6:
16:05 dalek doc: :nth can be Callable
16:05 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4518bc3f55
16:05 Juerd I'm not very sure about ? because I haven't really seen many uses of it yet.
16:06 psch Juerd: why the preference for positional self-declaring over named self-declaring?
16:06 cosimo joined #perl6
16:07 psch m: my &sub = sub { $^a > 0 ?? &?ROUTINE($^a-1) !! $^a }; # simple ?-twigil example
16:07 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: ( no output )
16:07 psch also ::?CLASS and $?CLASS are rather common
16:07 Juerd But : just sounds like a bad idea (at some point, just switch to a formal signature, jeez), < is redundant as it saves 1 character typing, = and * could go through globalish objects.
16:07 psch fwiw, i don't really see < as a twigil
16:08 Juerd psch: It's not a preference for one over the other, it's that $^a and $^b are just very useful for tiny subs, whereas anything with named arguments just won't be a tiny sub anyway.
16:08 perlpilot_ Juerd: except that sometimes tiny subs want to use names for clarity
16:08 psch i don't follow.  the calling convention does not dictate the complexity of a sub
16:09 Juerd psch: I don't know what < is exactly. It seems ambiguous with the $ variable and the <> postcircumfix, even though a combination of those two makes no sense.
16:09 prammer joined #perl6
16:09 Juerd But $<foo> reads like it should be the same as ${'foo'}, not $/{'foo'}
16:09 dalek doc: f96c6a1 | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6:
16:09 dalek doc: Dead glossary page links were fixed
16:09 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f96c6a1d3e
16:09 Juerd perlpilot_: That's not the kind of tiny that I'd find tiny :)
16:10 Juerd perlpilot_: I'm thinking of things like routines you pass to sort
16:10 perlpilot_ me too actually  :)
16:10 Juerd perlpilot_: In which you typically have a single simple expression that involves two arguments
16:10 psch m: "foo" ~~ /(.)+/; say @() # is ( a twigil now as well?
16:10 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«([「f」 「o」 「o」])␤»
16:11 psch that's why i don't think < is a twigil
16:11 psch and yeah, i can see the ${'foo'} instead of $/{'foo'} interpretation, i probably just got too used to it to be bothered by it
16:12 gfldex m: say $++, $<>;
16:12 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«0Nil␤»
16:12 Juerd gfldex: Every $ is a new one.
16:12 psch m: "foo" ~~ /(.)+/; say $<>
16:12 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«「foo」␤ 0 => 「f」␤ 0 => 「o」␤ 0 => 「o」␤»
16:13 Juerd Anyway, I think Perl 6 got too complex in some places, and twigils is one of them. It's okay, it's still a wonderful language even if it takes a bit longer to learn.
16:13 psch well, = and ~ are mostly ignorable
16:13 Juerd I don't believe in 'mostly ignorable' if it's syntax.
16:13 travis-ci joined #perl6
16:13 psch although that's probably because we don't really have enough working to do things with them yet
16:13 travis-ci Doc build passed. cognominal 'DOC phaser'
16:13 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146683484 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/dc856953a210...8210e654bef1
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16:13 psch i mean, messing with %~LANG is really icky still
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16:14 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1: 0b82fdd | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
16:14 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1: Bool.succ, .pred methods explained (please review)
16:14 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1:
16:14 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1: I first encountered the method "succ" today, and it was a method on Bool. At first I misunderstood it to mean "success", and wondered what type of failure or disaster "pred" stood for. Then I discovered that "succ" means "successor" and "pred" means "predecessor" and that they seem to totally make sense if we think of Bool in terms of it consisting of two possible enums.  So, that's what I tried to explain, but I would really
16:14 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0b82fdd937
16:14 Juerd imho, twigils like = and ~ are the same mistake that non-\w variable names in Perl 5 were.
16:15 geekosaur I do wonder if $?... and $*... should really be pseudo-namespaces
16:15 Juerd I would have preferred that.
16:16 psch i prefer $? over e.g. COMPILING::
16:16 perlpilot_ me too
16:16 iH2O left #perl6
16:17 Juerd The whole uppercase thing is another thing I don't really get.
16:17 Juerd If it's already special because of the twigil, then what's the use of the allcaps names...
16:17 perlpilot_ reinforcement?
16:18 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1: 30c2714 | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
16:18 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1: formatting tweak
16:18 dalek doc/molecules-patch-1: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/30c2714fba
16:18 Juerd I think it serves to make things ugly, which in turn makes you less likely to want to use them... :P
16:18 travis-ci joined #perl6
16:18 travis-ci Doc build passed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'we may not want to depend on the internet for tests'
16:18 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146684016 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/8210e654bef1...8e6e30359105
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16:22 travis-ci joined #perl6
16:22 travis-ci Doc build failed. Christopher Bottoms 'Bool.succ, .pred methods explained (please review)
16:22 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146688481 https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0b82fdd937c8
16:22 travis-ci left #perl6
16:30 [Coke] another Bailador question: I have post '' => sub { say request.body } - I hit the post, I see a single line in the log file indicating that it's being hit; no output is generated. Any pointers?
16:32 darutoko joined #perl6
16:33 Herby_ joined #perl6
16:33 Herby_ o/
16:34 Herby_ Question: How do I get a multiline input from the terminal? Poking around the perl6 docs, 'get' and 'prompt' seem to terminate when enter is hit
16:34 [Coke] Ah. in mojo, an empty route string matches everything; had to change it from '' to /.*/
16:34 [Coke] How would you know when to stop getting input?
16:35 psch m: my @lines = get() xx 3; .say for @lines
16:35 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤»
16:35 unmatched} $*IN.lines ?
16:35 psch Herby_: you can just chain &get calls
16:35 Herby_ That was my next question. I'm on Windows 10, working my way through 'Learning Perl' examples to learn Perl6
16:35 unmatched} m: mny @lines = $*IN.lines; say "Got {+@lines} lines of input"
16:35 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '@lines' is not declared. Did you mean '&lines'?␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3mny 7⏏5@lines = $*IN.lines; say "Got {+@lines} ␤»
16:35 unmatched} m: my @lines = $*IN.lines; say "Got {+@lines} lines of input"
16:35 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Got 20 lines of input␤»
16:36 psch lines should go until EOF, which is the next use case i can think of
16:38 unmatched} Herby_: don't know about Windows, but on Linux, you generally use CTRL+D to end multi-line stuff; that's EOF (so .lines stuff would work for such a scenario)
16:38 psch i think windows uses ^Z?
16:38 geekosaur control-z may work, yeh
16:38 timotimo did i mention i have my very own camelia plushie? :D
16:38 unmatched} m: my @lines = $*IN.lines.map({/Nuair/ and last}); say "Got {+@lines} lines of input"
16:38 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Got 2 lines of input␤»
16:39 unmatched} timotimo: I'm jealous :)
16:39 [Coke] timotimo: jelly!
16:39 timotimo :D
16:39 timotimo liz and wendy came over to visit with their bikes, and they gave it to me in person! :D
16:39 Herby_ unmatched}, I'll give it a whirl. thanks
16:39 cosimo joined #perl6
16:42 unmatched} On the topic of sigls and twigils: http://www.xkcd.com/1306/ :)
16:45 AlexDaniel ↘ Go ↗ Perl 6 ?
16:47 sjoshi joined #perl6
16:47 Juerd unmatched}: Hmmm... $qbasic? I thought that was qbasic$
16:48 unmatched} *shrug*
16:48 prammer joined #perl6
16:50 [Coke] docubug, mkdir should note that it's creating intervening directories (like $ mkdir -p)
16:53 AlexDaniel [Coke]: can you take a look at https://github.com/perl6/doc/pull/743 and tell your opinion?
16:54 AlexDaniel or anybody else?
16:56 dalek doc: 8761394 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6:
16:56 dalek doc: Document mkdir is like $ mkdir -p
16:56 dalek doc:
16:56 dalek doc: [Coke]++
16:56 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8761394283
16:56 AlexDaniel it's kinda interesting that people either don't see such pull requests or simply don't want to comment on them, but later…… We don't want to be in a situation when people start panicking when stuff is already done (“Why did you do this? Nooo!”)
16:57 Guest66 joined #perl6
16:57 P6fr re
16:57 unmatched} I just passed it as tl;dr and unsubbed from the first glosarry issue 'cause it was spamming my notifications :)
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17:03 travis-ci Doc build failed. Zoffix Znet 'Document mkdir is like $ mkdir -p
17:03 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146698077 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/f96c6a1d3ebf...87613942831d
17:03 travis-ci left #perl6
17:04 unmatched} Oh, f off with your trailing whitespace.
17:05 Juerd ...said the unmatched curly.
17:06 dalek doc: ebab3c9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6:
17:06 dalek doc:  :rage4:
17:06 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ebab3c9557
17:06 [Coke] unmatched}: as the author of that test (but not the committer), I would have no problem if the test became optional.
17:06 [Coke] AlexDaniel: there's a lot of stuff there. do you just want feedback on whether we should remove links to wikipedia?
17:07 unmatched} I think AlexDaniel was running some statistics vis-a-vis that test. So I'll leave it to him to make changes, if any are needed.
17:08 AlexDaniel according to my statistics, Zoffix is very unhappy with these tests
17:08 unmatched} :D
17:09 [Coke] i agree that it's frustrating when someone puts in the work, the trigger is pulled, and then someone like me says "why did you do that". but given the volunteer nature of the project, it's hard to avoid, unless someone wants to *own* the project and make sure that doesn't happen. (like you're doing by asking me! thanks!)
17:09 AlexDaniel [Coke]: the question is should we remove glossary items like JVM, JIT or OOP from the glossary?
17:09 [Coke] on the other hand, running 'make test' before pushing is easy.
17:10 [Coke] AlexDaniel: I could argue it either way.
17:10 unmatched} [Coke]: no it's not, because it'd involve finding/cloning the repo pulling the changes, making edits, and pushing back. Compare that to "Edit this page" on GitHub that let's you do single-click edits.
17:11 [Coke] hard to determine where to draw the line is.
17:11 pRiVi joined #perl6
17:11 [Coke] unmatched}: You're the only person I know that is editing things via github.
17:11 unmatched} I can't be the only one.
17:11 AlexDaniel not the only one
17:12 AlexDaniel github marks commits that were done via github, it seems like others do that sometimes too
17:12 [Coke] so someone open a ticket to make the test optional.
17:12 * unmatched} does so
17:13 travis-ci joined #perl6
17:13 travis-ci Doc build errored. Zoffix Znet ' :rage4:'
17:13 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146700502 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/87613942831d...ebab3c955752
17:13 travis-ci left #perl6
17:13 AlexDaniel travis-ci: you're drunk, go home
17:16 unmatched} Opened https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/745
17:17 [Coke] what is "Pod::To::BigPage" ?
17:18 gfldex [Coke]: it renders all pod files into one big html file, what can be shipped with a distro and will even work with ntfs
17:18 [Coke] ah, it's too new.
17:18 dainis joined #perl6
17:18 gfldex also it allows printing for some values of printing
17:19 [Coke] one of its tests depends on IO::Socket::SSL implicitly but not explicitly.
17:19 unmatched} Neat. TIL GitHub marks on-site-edited commits :)
17:20 [Coke] I'm done with unmatched}'s request, just trying to get a clean test run in.
17:20 unmatched} \o/ [Coke]++
17:20 [Coke] ... openssl assumes that DNS works.
17:22 [Coke] and doesn't respect https roxy.
17:23 * [Coke] opens https://github.com/sergot/openssl/issues/30
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17:24 usermac Does Google Cloud offer Perl6? If not, then who? Thx
17:25 pmurias joined #perl6
17:25 pmurias hi
17:25 unmatched} hey
17:26 unmatched} usermac: offer how? I got Perl 6 installed on my GCE VM
17:26 [Coke] and another one for LWP::Simple...
17:26 [Coke] usermac: there's a docker container, if that helps.
17:27 [Coke] s/container/image/ oops
17:27 unmatched} usermac: it's "app engine" only has Node.js, Java, Python, PHP, Go, and Ruby listed as languages of choice.
17:27 [Coke] ==> Testing Pod::To::BigPage
17:27 [Coke] ===SORRY!===
17:27 [Coke] Expected MAST::Frame, but didn't get one
17:27 [Coke] t/P.t ..
17:28 unmatched} That was an issue with JSON::RPC too and the author belives that has to do with something LWP::Simple
17:28 unmatched} *in LWP...
17:28 cdg joined #perl6
17:29 P6fr m: my @ = 1..5.say
17:29 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5␤»
17:29 [Coke] https://github.com/gfldex/perl6-pod-to-bigpage/issues/1
17:29 P6fr m: my @ = 1..5;say @
17:29 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«[]␤»
17:29 domidumont joined #perl6
17:29 * [Coke] will just push the test change untested, then.
17:30 AlexDaniel [Coke]: there's some discussion on https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/745 :)
17:30 gfldex [Coke]: that test is working fine locally and in a clean VM
17:30 P6fr m: my @a = 1..5;say @a
17:30 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 4 5]␤»
17:31 dalek doc: 4aee722 | coke++ | Makefile:
17:31 dalek doc: Turn off trailing whitespace test for 'make test'
17:31 dalek doc:
17:31 dalek doc: Make all tests available under 'make xtest'
17:31 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4aee722942
17:31 gfldex [Coke]: can you try `panda --force install LWP::Simple` please?
17:31 [Coke] gfldex: I had to do that just now to install LWP::Simple, yes
17:32 [Coke] sorry;
17:32 [Coke] what I did was "panda --notests install LWP::Simple"
17:32 [Coke] since LWP::Simple fails tests here.
17:32 [Coke] heading out
17:33 cdg joined #perl6
17:33 unmatched} \o/
17:34 gfldex [Coke]: i don't got IO::Socket::SSL installed (because it doesn't work)
17:38 mcmillhj joined #perl6
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17:41 P6fr m: say 1..26 Z A..Z
17:41 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared names:␤    A used at line 1␤    Z used at line 1␤␤»
17:42 P6fr m: my $a  =1..26 Z A..Z
17:42 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared names:␤    A used at line 1␤    Z used at line 1␤␤»
17:42 unmatched} m: m: say 1..26 Z "A".."Z"
17:42 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«((1 A) (2 B) (3 C) (4 D) (5 E) (6 F) (7 G) (8 H) (9 I) (10 J) (11 K) (12 L) (13 M) (14 N) (15 O) (16 P) (17 Q) (18 R) (19 S) (20 T) (21 U) (22 V) (23 W) (24 X) (25 Y) (26 Z))␤»
17:43 P6fr m: my $a  =1..26 Z =>"A".."Z"
17:43 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix => instead␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $a  =1..26 Z =>7⏏5"A".."Z"␤»
17:43 P6fr m: my $a  =1..26 Z=>"A".."Z"
17:43 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: ( no output )
17:43 unmatched} You need to `say` or output the output some other way
17:43 P6fr m: my $a  =1..26 Z=>"A".."Z";say $a
17:43 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1..26␤»
17:44 P6fr ok thx unmatched}
17:44 unmatched} m: my $a  = (1..26 Z=>"A".."Z");say $a
17:44 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(1 => A 2 => B 3 => C 4 => D 5 => E 6 => F 7 => G 8 => H 9 => I 10 => J 11 => K 12 => L 13 => M 14 => N 15 => O 16 => P 17 => Q 18 => R 19 => S 20 => T 21 => U 22 => V 23 => W 24 => X 25 => Y 26 => Z)␤»
17:44 AlexDaniel or
17:44 AlexDaniel m: my @a = 1..26 Z=> "A".."Z"; say @a
17:44 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«[1 => A 2 => B 3 => C 4 => D 5 => E 6 => F 7 => G 8 => H 9 => I 10 => J 11 => K 12 => L 13 => M 14 => N 15 => O 16 => P 17 => Q 18 => R 19 => S 20 => T 21 => U 22 => V 23 => W 24 => X 25 => Y 26 => Z]␤»
17:44 unmatched} Right
17:45 P6fr thx you very much
17:45 sena_san joined #perl6
17:46 AlexDaniel or maybe you want something like this
17:46 AlexDaniel m: say (‘A’..‘Z’).pairs
17:46 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(0 => A 1 => B 2 => C 3 => D 4 => E 5 => F 6 => G 7 => H 8 => I 9 => J 10 => K 11 => L 12 => M 13 => N 14 => O 15 => P 16 => Q 17 => R 18 => S 19 => T 20 => U 21 => V 22 => W 23 => X 24 => Y 25 => Z)␤»
17:46 AlexDaniel the numbering is a little bit different, but who knows, maybe that's what you need
17:47 P6fr hum
17:47 unmatched} m: use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class List { method succ { self.[0].succ; self.[1].succ } }; say (1, "A"), (2, "B") ... (26, "Z")
17:47 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5C' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤␤»
17:48 unmatched} In 'C'? Digits? wat
17:48 mohae_ joined #perl6
17:48 P6fr how to do a variable global
17:48 P6fr ?
17:49 unmatched} I guess it's the Doctor Hurts thing... It's trying to do numerical comparison with something
17:49 unmatched} P6fr: why? Globals are a bad idea
17:49 P6fr why ? i need a array for all codes
17:50 unmatched} P6fr: what do you mean by "global"?
17:51 travis-ci joined #perl6
17:51 travis-ci Doc build passed. Will "Coke" Coleda 'Turn off trailing whitespace test for 'make test'
17:51 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146707981 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/ebab3c955752...4aee7229425d
17:51 travis-ci left #perl6
17:51 P6fr available in all parts From Code
17:52 P6fr hum no I'll take my and do not surround hook
17:52 P6fr it's the same
17:53 unmatched} m: say :26('MEO')
17:53 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«15260␤»
17:53 unmatched} m: say :26('MEOW')
17:53 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: malformed ':26' style radix number, expecting '>' after the body in '3:26<MEO⏏5W>' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
17:53 unmatched} m: say :36('MEOW')
17:53 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«1045472␤»
17:54 tbrowder joined #perl6
17:54 unmatched} LTA-ish error.
17:54 unmatched} (the '>' portion... it's not applicable to my actual code)
17:55 dainis joined #perl6
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18:05 s34n_ are there any performance benchmarks posted periodically to gauge progress on perl5 optimization?
18:07 mspo ?
18:07 unmatched} s34n_: try asking in #perl that's the channel for Perl 5 language.
18:07 unmatched} folks in there would be more familiar
18:07 s34n_ oops. I meant perl6. typo
18:07 [Coke] this channel is about perl 6.
18:07 [Coke] ah
18:08 [Coke] https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench is the software. not sure if there's a place that saves out graphs every so often.
18:08 unmatched} We should have Tux's test-t stuff in the speed FAQ.
18:08 timotimo yeah, we have daily graphs on the moarvm page
18:08 timotimo http://tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html
18:09 unmatched} huggable: speed is :is: Some speed stats: http://tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html
18:09 huggable unmatched}, Added speed is as Some speed stats: http://tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html
18:09 unmatched} I just wish graphs started the axes at 0. The graphs are a bit misleading :)
18:10 timotimo yeah
18:10 timotimo http://www.moarvm.org/measurements/perl6-bench/ - sadly not really day-to-day comparisons
18:11 [Coke] timotimo: wonder if we could sort that directory listing in reverse.
18:12 timotimo http://www.moarvm.org/measurements/perl6-bench/?C=M;O=D
18:12 [Coke] well, by default, though. :)
18:12 [Coke] timotimo++ though
18:12 timotimo :)
18:13 timotimo figure out what to put into the .htaccess and it should be trivial for jnthn to put that up
18:14 unmatched} http://serverfault.com/a/642770
18:15 dalek doc: 88b9a88 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | / (2 files):
18:15 dalek doc: add bigpage to automatic build
18:15 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/88b9a88b9e
18:15 dalek doc: e6f2aa0 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | Makefile:
18:15 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc
18:15 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e6f2aa04fb
18:16 unmatched} IndexOptions NameWidth=*
18:16 unmatched} IndexOrderDefault Descending Date
18:16 unmatched} That's what we got on rakudo.org/downloads
18:18 andrzejku joined #perl6
18:22 dalek doc/wiki-entries-cleanup: 345efdc | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6:
18:22 dalek doc/wiki-entries-cleanup: Fix for merge conflict
18:22 dalek doc/wiki-entries-cleanup: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/345efdce3b
18:23 travis-ci joined #perl6
18:23 travis-ci Doc build failed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc'
18:23 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146717768 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/4aee7229425d...e6f2aa04fbeb
18:23 travis-ci left #perl6
18:23 sena_san Conflict is resolved. There are still some strange pieces like "Javascript as a virtual machine", but it's not the case for this PR.
18:24 jdv79 [Coke]: ok.  hope he comes back to write mojo6.
18:24 jdv79 sri++
18:24 timotimo thank you, sena_san
18:25 unmatched} jdv79: he won't. The title of this commit kinda says it all: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/19cdf77258a1e123c84ddf79f377be60182ef1ef
18:26 timotimo why is the linguist detection of perl6 vs perl5 code so bad? :\
18:26 unmatched} Because languages are similar.
18:27 unmatched} The issues are mostly with test files.
18:27 unmatched} You have the same extention and there's not much else to differentiate by
18:27 jdv79 i don't think that's definitive.  he's just frustrated with the current state of things.
18:28 jdv79 aren't we all
18:28 unmatched} I'm not.
18:28 jdv79 ok
18:28 unmatched} I also seen him comment that it'd make more sense to make a Ruby version of Mojo*
18:29 timotimo because as opposed to perl6, ruby doesn't have Inline::Perl5? :)
18:29 unmatched} timotimo++
18:30 unmatched} Yeah, other than the SEGV, my experience with Mojolicious over Inline::Perl5 was rather great.
18:30 jdv79 i'm sure.  p5 is still not p6.
18:31 girafe joined #perl6
18:31 unmatched} Seems a tribal statement :)
18:31 unmatched} "We need the thing because everyone else has the thing"
18:31 unmatched} Perl 6 doesn't have the speed or stability to support a competing web framework at the moment.
18:31 jdv79 i think that in 5 years we'll all look back at this and laugh
18:31 unmatched} I hope so :)
18:32 jdv79 exactly
18:32 unmatched} (SEGV I mentioned is this https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128558 )
18:33 unmatched} Well, I'm leaving until next Monday. Hoping I'll have a production-ready IRC::Client when I come back :)
18:33 jdv79 have fun
18:34 timotimo have a nice weekend, unmatched}
18:36 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:37 harmil The Star announcement is getting some negative traction on reddit (it's dropped from 11 to 9 upvotes while I've been watching)... :-(
18:39 jdv79 happens
18:40 itaipu joined #perl6
18:40 perlpilot_ It's too bad the crappy comments are near the top though
18:44 timotimo on which subreddit?
18:45 mst https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4u2fge/announce_rakudo_star_perl_6_compiler_distribution/
18:45 timotimo found the one on r/perl6/
18:46 Juerd harmil: Note that reddit scores are fuzzy and that a 2 point drop can be false information.
18:47 cdg joined #perl6
18:48 Juerd Heh, I actually agree with that comment about ^fff^
18:48 moritz that aside, reddit really is full of jerks
18:50 gfldex if they have time to comment on reddit they likely are not in the rather small group of folk who get stuff done
18:50 perlpilot_ .oO( If "ff" stands for "flip flop", what does "fff" stand for?  "flippity floppity floo"? )
18:50 Juerd One day I'll make a list of bulk I think we can just remove from Perl 6 because almost nobody uses them anyway.
18:51 ugexe because almost no code that you're personally aware of uses them you mean
18:51 Juerd Of course :)
18:51 ugexe thats kinda the rub
18:52 dalek doc: d8d26e2 | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Language/faq.pod6:
18:52 dalek doc: Changed "Perl 6" to "Perl 6"
18:52 dalek doc:
18:52 dalek doc: A non-breaking space means that no matter what browser someone is using, "Perl" and "6" will never seem separated by a line break.
18:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d8d26e2919
18:52 Juerd But does anyone besides Larry and Damian ever use indirect method call syntax?
18:52 Juerd Or ^fff
18:52 FROGGS joined #perl6
18:53 AlexDaniel indirect method call syntax? Like say 42: ?
18:53 jdv79 is there a cool p6 intro slide set i could use?
18:53 ugexe most of reddit would say does anyone besides Larry and Damian use perl6 period
18:53 perlpilot_ Juerd: in P6?  I use it all the time.  In p5?  I try not to
18:54 perlpilot_ Juerd: er ... not fff  :)
18:54 AlexDaniel ah, the ."$foo" thingy?
18:54 Juerd I can't parse "... not fff"
18:54 ugexe CSV::Parser uses indirect methods
18:54 Juerd ugexe: Oh :)
18:54 perlpilot_ It's Friday; the chances that I'll be able to communicate clearly are diminished  :)
18:55 Juerd ugexe: Where?
18:56 jdv79 at a conf.  might carve out a slot.
18:57 itaipu joined #perl6
18:57 ugexe it uses stuff like $buffer."{self!sizer}"() throughout
18:57 Juerd That's not what I meant.
18:57 Juerd I was referring to the "method_name $invocant: arg, arg, arg;" syntax.
18:58 P6fr $str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] );
18:58 P6fr m: $str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] );
18:58 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$str' is not declared. Did you mean any of these?␤    str␤    Str␤␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5$str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] );␤»
18:58 Juerd Symbolic access to method names is useful.
18:58 P6fr m: my $str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] );
18:58 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Method 'trans' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
18:58 Juerd So I'm definitely not complaining about $foo."{....}"()
18:59 P6fr m: my $str=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] );
18:59 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    trans used at line 1. Did you mean 'rand', 'tanh', 'srand'?␤␤»
18:59 Juerd ugexe: get_line $csv:;  # this would be an example of what I meant
18:59 AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str.=trans( [‘a’..‘y’] => [‘A’..‘z’] ); say $str
18:59 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«HELLO␤»
18:59 travis-ci joined #perl6
18:59 travis-ci Doc build failed. Christopher Bottoms 'Changed "Perl 6" to "Perl 6"
18:59 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146725746 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/e6f2aa04fbeb...d8d26e291901
18:59 travis-ci left #perl6
18:59 Juerd ugexe: my $csv = new CSV::Parser: :file_handle($fh);  # Another example
19:00 P6fr m: my $str="perl6 is beautiful";my $str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] );
19:00 Juerd Note the fine usage of colons there
19:00 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Redeclaration of symbol $str␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3my $str="perl6 is beautiful";my $str7⏏5.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] );␤»
19:00 cosimo joined #perl6
19:00 AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; say $str.uc
19:00 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«HELLO␤»
19:00 P6fr m: my $str="perl6 is beautiful";my $str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] ).say;
19:00 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Redeclaration of symbol $str␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3my $str="perl6 is beautiful";my $str7⏏5.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] ).say;␤PERL6 IS BEAUTIFUL␤»
19:01 timotimo throw the second "my" out
19:01 AlexDaniel P6fr: if you do “my $str .=” then it is calling a method on an Any
19:01 AlexDaniel -an
19:01 timotimo i'm surprised you can .= trans(...).say
19:02 P6fr AlexDaniel  i don't understand
19:03 P6fr ha
19:03 P6fr m: my $str="perl6 is beautiful";say $str.=trans( ['a'..'y'] => ['A'..'z'] ).say;
19:03 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«PERL6 IS BEAUTIFUL␤True␤»
19:03 P6fr ok
19:03 P6fr thx
19:03 AlexDaniel P6fr: well, “my $str .= foo” is basically “my $str = $str.foo”
19:04 AlexDaniel P6fr: so the question is what is the value of $str there
19:04 AlexDaniel m: my $str; say $str
19:04 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
19:04 P6fr ha ok
19:04 mspo that doesn't make a lot of sense to me
19:05 AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str .= uc().say; say $str
19:05 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«HELLO␤HELLO␤»
19:05 AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; ($str .= uc()).say; say $str
19:05 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«HELLO␤HELLO␤»
19:07 timotimo interesting. useful. a bit surprising, perhaps
19:07 Juerd mspo: What exactly doesn't make sense to you?
19:07 mspo m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str .= uc(); say $str
19:07 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«HELLO␤»
19:08 AlexDaniel timotimo: I'm not sure if that is useful. Anyone looking at that code will go “WTF??”
19:08 AlexDaniel timotimo: I'd better use parens
19:08 timotimo sure
19:08 Juerd m: my $number = 4; $number += 2; say $number;
19:08 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«6␤»
19:08 Juerd Does that make sense? :)
19:08 mspo Juerd: because I want .= to do ~~= (append), probably
19:08 Juerd m: my $number = 25; $number .= sqrt; say $number;
19:08 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5␤»
19:08 AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str = $str . uc(); say $str # if yes, then why not that?
19:08 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«HELLO␤»
19:08 mspo m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~~= uc(); say $str
19:08 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot make assignment out of ~~ because chaining operators are too diffy␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~~=7⏏5 uc(); say $str␤»
19:08 Juerd mspo: I think you mean ~=
19:08 mspo m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~= uc(); say $str
19:08 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling uc() will never work with declared signature (Cool $s)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~= 7⏏5uc(); say $str␤»
19:09 Juerd mspo: You're now calling the function uc(), which requires an argument
19:09 Juerd m: my $str = 'hello'; $str ~= uc(" there"); say $str;
19:09 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«hello THERE␤»
19:09 mspo m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~= .uc(); say $str
19:09 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Method 'uc' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
19:09 AlexDaniel mspo: it translates to $str = $str ~ uc()
19:09 P6fr wht ~= ?
19:10 AlexDaniel P6fr: ~ concats two strings
19:10 mspo m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~= $str.uc(); say $str
19:10 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«helloHELLO␤»
19:10 Juerd mspo: Now you're calling $_.uc() because you can't combine .op operators
19:10 Juerd mspo: I mean op=, not .op
19:10 AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str = $str ~ ‘ world’; say $str
19:10 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«hello world␤»
19:10 AlexDaniel m: my $str = ‘hello’; $str ~= ‘ world’; say $str
19:10 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«hello world␤»
19:10 Juerd P6fr: Do you know what += does?
19:10 P6fr yes AlexDaniel  but  ~and = ?
19:10 AlexDaniel P6fr: see above
19:10 P6fr yes
19:10 Juerd P6fr: ~= is like that, but for ~ instead of +
19:10 Juerd P6fr: ~ concatenates strings, while + adds numbers.
19:11 P6fr it's the same as .=
19:11 mspo I guess I was in p5 mode
19:11 Juerd In general: if there's an infix operator "op" that you use as "$foo op $bar", then you can write "$foo = $foo op $bar" using a shorter form: "$foo op= $bar"
19:12 Juerd So the infix + becomes +=, the infix ~ becomes ~+, and the infix . becomes .=
19:12 Juerd ~=, not ~+
19:12 mspo oh right, larry wall showed that in a video when he made an infix op
19:12 Juerd Held the shift key a bit too long :)
19:12 Juerd Yes, it also works for infix operators you create yourself. So let's create that "op" operator:
19:13 Juerd m: sub infix:<op> ($name1, $name2) { "$name1 ♥ $name2" }; my $statement = "Juerd"; $statement op= "Perl 6"; say $statement;
19:13 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Juerd ♥ Perl 6␤»
19:14 P6fr but wat's the point of putting :$str ~= $str.uc()
19:14 AlexDaniel m: sub infix:<op> ($name1, $name2) { "$name1 ♥ $name2" }; say [op] "Juerd", "Perl 6", "custom ops"
19:14 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«Juerd ♥ Perl 6 ♥ custom ops␤»
19:15 AlexDaniel m: sub infix:<op> ($name1, $name2) { "$name1 ♥ $name2" }; say ("Juerd", "AlexDaniel") »op« ("Perl 6", "custom ops")
19:15 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«(Juerd ♥ Perl 6 AlexDaniel ♥ custom ops)␤»
19:15 Juerd P6fr: There isn't much point in doing that, because it would add the uppercased string to the original.
19:16 P6fr ok
19:16 mspo AlexDaniel: can you show that with comb?
19:16 wamba joined #perl6
19:16 Juerd Is that Perl 6 for "can you use that in a sentence?"?
19:17 P6fr I want to thank you all for helping newbies
19:17 Juerd P6fr: My pleasure :)
19:17 AlexDaniel mspo: hmm, what do you mean?
19:18 mspo oh nevermind, I'm confused
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19:44 prammer is there a dwim date/time module or function that can parse this: 2016-07-21T19:56:22.464+0000
19:45 addison joined #perl6
19:45 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
19:45 prammer I tried DateTime::Parse, no luck
19:47 harmil I think that's the state of the art right now...
19:51 sena_kun joined #perl6
19:52 dalek doc: 0b82fdd | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
19:52 dalek doc: Bool.succ, .pred methods explained (please review)
19:52 dalek doc:
19:52 dalek doc: I first encountered the method "succ" today, and it was a method on Bool. At first I misunderstood it to mean "success", and wondered what type of failure or disaster "pred" stood for. Then I discovered that "succ" means "successor" and "pred" means "predecessor" and that they seem to totally make sense if we think of Bool in terms of it consisting of two possible enums.  So, that's what I tried to explain, but I would really like someone that
19:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0b82fdd937
19:52 dalek doc: 30c2714 | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
19:52 dalek doc: formatting tweak
19:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/30c2714fba
19:52 dalek doc: 657c0e0 | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
19:52 dalek doc: Merge pull request #744 from perl6/molecules-patch-1
19:52 dalek doc:
19:52 dalek doc: Bool.succ, .pred methods explained
19:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/657c0e0c5f
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20:00 travis-ci Doc build failed. Christopher Bottoms 'Merge pull request #744 from perl6/molecules-patch-1
20:00 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146738211 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/d8d26e291901...657c0e0c5fb6
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20:08 dalek doc: 646039e | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | .travis.yml:
20:08 dalek doc: set PATH as rakudobrew demands
20:08 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/646039e60c
20:08 dalek doc: e97a2fa | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/ (2 files):
20:08 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc
20:08 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e97a2faa1e
20:09 Tonik joined #perl6
20:09 gfldex system administration via git push is kinda slow
20:12 dalek doc: 1b63b98 | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
20:12 dalek doc: deconfusing enum and enum value
20:12 dalek doc:
20:12 dalek doc: Thanks @AlexDaniel
20:12 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1b63b98eb7
20:13 P6fr dalek is a bot ?
20:13 gfldex yes
20:14 P6fr why he said thx alexdaniel ?
20:14 P6fr what is said doc: ...
20:14 gfldex that's part of the commit message
20:14 P6fr why
20:14 AlexDaniel dalek: dalek is a bot that announces commits to different repos
20:14 AlexDaniel oops
20:14 P6fr ok
20:15 AlexDaniel P6fr: commit in question is https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1b63b98eb737ae2491dfc245b3eff9e6a9eb1bd9
20:15 P6fr there are a lot of commit
20:15 colomon joined #perl6
20:16 AlexDaniel yeah, people are working on docs very actively nowadays
20:16 P6fr how many user of perl6 ? you know ?
20:16 AlexDaniel let's count
20:16 AlexDaniel one, two, three, four, five, si…
20:16 P6fr lol
20:16 AlexDaniel P6fr: actually, it is very hard to estimate
20:17 P6fr There's no statistics?
20:17 P6fr ok
20:17 ugexe PR: add telemetry to compiler
20:18 skids You can only guess the number of users, unless you are closed source and use a license server.
20:19 gfldex P6fr: i can't tell you how many but I can tell you where: http://imgur.com/a/LopbT
20:20 AlexDaniel there are also debian stats https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=rakudo%20rakudo-lib
20:20 gfldex a good view count for my blog is 170
20:20 AlexDaniel but this does not mean much
20:21 travis-ci joined #perl6
20:21 travis-ci Doc build passed. Christopher Bottoms 'formatting tweak'
20:21 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146740312 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/molecules-patch-1
20:21 travis-ci left #perl6
20:21 AlexDaniel just don't do this: https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=rakudo+perl&amp;show_installed=on&amp;from_date=&amp;to_date=&amp;hlght_date=&amp;date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&amp;beenhere=1
20:21 ugexe how many users does phpixie have??
20:21 * [Coke] gets a syntax error on this line of perl6 code: ------> sub update-git-checkout(⏏$url, $repo) {
20:22 dalek doc: 2da45b5 | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Language/tables.pod6:
20:22 dalek doc: Slight additional editing for clarity and correctness
20:22 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2da45b54f1
20:22 AlexDaniel [Coke]: so invalid, wow
20:22 gfldex [Coke]: you may have a problem with a quote and/or interpolation
20:23 gfldex m: sub f(){} say "{f(}"; say 'oi!';
20:23 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub f(){}7⏏5 say "{f(}"; say 'oi!';␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        statement en…»
20:27 domidumont joined #perl6
20:27 travis-ci joined #perl6
20:27 travis-ci Doc build passed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc'
20:27 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146741902 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/657c0e0c5fb6...e97a2faa1ea3
20:27 travis-ci left #perl6
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20:33 travis-ci joined #perl6
20:33 travis-ci Doc build passed. Christopher Bottoms 'deconfusing enum and enum value
20:33 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146742728 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/e97a2faa1ea3...1b63b98eb737
20:33 travis-ci left #perl6
20:34 colomon joined #perl6
20:38 Roamer` m: my %a = :a(1), :c(2), :b("foo"); my %b = :b("foo"), :c(2), :a(1); dd %a{*}:v Z %b{*}:v;
20:38 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«((1, 1), (2, 2), ("foo", "foo")).Seq␤»
20:38 Roamer` is this supposed to happen?  Can I depend on it?
20:38 [Coke] you can't depend on hash order.
20:39 [Coke] if you want things sorted for sure, sort them.
20:41 Roamer` [Coke], yes, that's what I'm accustomed to (I remember when people made changes to actively randomize hash order even more than before)
20:41 Roamer` [Coke], that's why I was a bit surprised by this result
20:41 Roamer` or I guess it's just elements falling into the same hash containers for a small number of elements
20:41 Roamer` I guess I shouldn't be surprised
20:41 Roamer` hash buckets, I mean
20:44 travis-ci joined #perl6
20:44 travis-ci Doc build passed. Tom Browder 'Slight additional editing for clarity and correctness'
20:44 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/146744968 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/1b63b98eb737...2da45b54f1a5
20:44 travis-ci left #perl6
20:45 dalek doc: 0c09e85 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | util/update-and-sync:
20:45 dalek doc: explicitly add PATH that rakudobrew forgot
20:45 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0c09e85f44
20:45 Possum joined #perl6
20:47 rindolf joined #perl6
20:48 daxim joined #perl6
20:49 gfldex somebody doc something please, we need 2 commits to have changes to util/update-and-sync take effect :)
20:49 eyck joined #perl6
20:51 Roamer` okay, yeah, I just tested it with 100 random keys and values and {*}:k and {*}:v did not return the same order on two hash that otherwise test the same with is-deeply... so things are back to normal
20:52 Roamer` on two hashes even
20:53 colomon joined #perl6
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20:57 zacts joined #perl6
21:03 dalek doc: 1b39176 | skids++ | doc/Language/variables.pod6:
21:03 dalek doc: fix typo
21:03 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1b3917659c
21:04 skids There's 1/2
21:04 eyck joined #perl6
21:05 Legal_Resale joined #perl6
21:11 AlexDaniel oh
21:11 AlexDaniel s26 is now fixed
21:14 sena_kun AlexDaniel, cool.
21:17 skids gfdex: https://gist.github.com/skids/8ceb56206d68341256df1e3824e4162c
21:17 perlpilot joined #perl6
21:17 skids I have yet to run any spectests
21:17 mephinet joined #perl6
21:17 skids (and haven't run them on HEAD in a while either so don't know what normal failures are these days)
21:18 gfldex skids: nice
21:18 skids As usual, actual fix pretty easy, following the 5 levels of indirection and renaming was the hard part.
21:18 gfldex we got https://docs.perl6.org/perl6.xhtml now
21:18 adu joined #perl6
21:18 gfldex FF crashed in print preview, chrome works fine
21:25 skids Too many tabs open in FF to test that :-)
21:25 P6fr m: say my %alphabet = "A".."Z" Z=> 1..26;
21:25 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«{A => 1, B => 2, C => 3, D => 4, E => 5, F => 6, G => 7, H => 8, I => 9, J => 10, K => 11, L => 12, M => 13, N => 14, O => 15, P => 16, Q => 17, R => 18, S => 19, T => 20, U => 21, V => 22, W => 23, X => 24, Y => 25, Z => 26}␤»
21:25 P6fr perl is pretty
21:25 dalek doc: a973e7b | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6:
21:25 dalek doc: Fix for #679 (^^ and the end of the string)
21:25 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a973e7bb69
21:35 eyck_ joined #perl6
21:35 AlexDaniel so basically someone is complaining that Perl 6 code is too short? Um… okay
21:36 harmil AlexDaniel: Do you mean the reddit thread about Star?
21:36 AlexDaniel yea
21:37 harmil Yeah, that's clearly someone who doesn't know what he doesn't like in a programming language who just wants to not like Perl 6.
21:37 jdv79 too terse?
21:38 harmil But that being said, I do think that Perl 6 runs the risk of Huffman coding itself into oblivion. It's a fine line, and we shouldn't lose track of it. ^ffff^ might be near that line ;)
21:39 AlexDaniel but as always, you don't have to use it
21:40 jdv79 you could always tweak the lang by adding a bunch of oversized tokens if you wish:)
21:40 tinita joined #perl6
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21:42 P6fr AlexDaniel you work in info ?
21:42 AlexDaniel P6fr: info? What info? No, I don't think so
21:42 P6fr computer science
21:43 AlexDaniel ah. I don't have a full-time job, so I'd say no
21:43 P6fr ok
21:44 vendethiel joined #perl6
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21:47 harmil AlexDaniel: Not having to use a construct doesn't make code easier to read.
21:47 harmil All I'm saying is that it's a thing to keep in sight.
21:47 AlexDaniel harmil: it does, given that nobody is using ^fff^ :)
21:49 vendethiel o/
21:49 harmil AlexDaniel: Well, it's used here: https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/
21:49 harmil Which means it will probably be picked up by lots of beginners.
21:49 AlexDaniel wow! It actually goes on to explain flip flop operators!
21:50 vendethiel yes
21:50 vendethiel I love flip flops :P
21:50 vendethiel I considered removing it, for sure
21:51 kaare_ joined #perl6
21:56 gfldex m: my @numbers =  <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers[$range];
21:56 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«16␤»
21:56 gfldex m: my @numbers =  <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my \range = 0..2; .say for @numbers[range];
21:56 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«4␤8␤15␤»
21:57 AlexDaniel m: my @numbers =  <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers[@$range];
21:57 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«4␤8␤15␤»
21:57 AlexDaniel hm
21:57 firstdayonthejob joined #perl6
21:58 gfldex m: my @numbers =  <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range := 0..2; .say for @numbers[$range];
21:58 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«4␤8␤15␤»
21:59 harmil m: my @numbers =  <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers[|$range]
21:59 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«4␤8␤15␤»
22:08 harmil m: ("1", {$_ ~ $_.trans("01"=>"10")} ... *)[7].say
22:08 camelia rakudo-moar b89bf9: OUTPUT«10010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110100101100110100110010110011010010110100110010110␤»
22:08 harmil I googled that. There were hits. *scared*
22:10 AlexDaniel harmil: I'm currently cloning the whole ecosystem to search for ^fff^ :)
22:10 Sgeo joined #perl6
22:11 harmil ha!
22:12 gfldex AlexDaniel: when you are done please do a `du -sch`
22:13 sdegutis joined #perl6
22:14 sdegutis left #perl6
22:16 gfldex bisectable my @numbers =  <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers.[$range];
22:16 bisectable gfldex: On both starting points the exit code is 0 and the output is identical as well
22:16 bisectable gfldex: Output on both points: 16
22:17 gfldex bisectable good=2015.12 bad=HEAD my @numbers =  <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers.[$range];
22:17 bisectable gfldex: On both starting points the exit code is 0 and the output is identical as well
22:17 bisectable gfldex: Output on both points: 16
22:18 AlexDaniel that's what it does by default
22:18 AlexDaniel commit: 2015.10 my @numbers =  <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers.[$range];
22:18 committable AlexDaniel: |«2015.10»: 16
22:19 P6fr bug ?
22:19 AlexDaniel I don't think so
22:21 gfldex i think that's a bug, it's picking the wrong multi candidate for postcircumfix:<[ ]>
22:22 gfldex it should pick on based on Iterable
22:22 dvinciguerra_ joined #perl6
22:22 P6fr but why "16"
22:23 AlexDaniel m: my @x = 4,8,15; say +@x
22:23 camelia rakudo-moar 7257b3: OUTPUT«3␤»
22:23 AlexDaniel m: my @x = 4,8,15; say @x + 0
22:23 camelia rakudo-moar 7257b3: OUTPUT«3␤»
22:24 AlexDaniel P6fr: in numeric operations arrays turn into the count of elements in them
22:24 lizmat m: my @numbers =  <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range := 0..2; .say for @numbers.[$range]
22:24 camelia rakudo-moar 7257b3: OUTPUT«4␤8␤15␤»
22:24 AlexDaniel or wait, is it the case
22:24 AlexDaniel yeah
22:25 lizmat m: my @numbers =  <4 8 15 16 23 42>; my $range = 0..2; .say for @numbers.[@$range]
22:25 camelia rakudo-moar 7257b3: OUTPUT«4␤8␤15␤»
22:25 lizmat on could argue that the single argument rule should be at work here
22:25 lizmat *one
22:26 lizmat but I think we decided against that
22:26 lizmat perhaps jnthn has some ideas about that
22:26 AlexDaniel perhaps a good candidate for a @LARRY ticket?
22:26 lizmat fine by me  :-)
22:26 lizmat good night, #perl6!
22:28 gfldex if the single argument rule is invoced, why does binding work?
22:28 AlexDaniel ok, except for 40 modules with broken META6.json all modules are now cloned
22:28 AlexDaniel gfldex: 256M
22:29 gfldex i would have guessed less but then I forgot about .git
22:29 lizmat gfldex: good question
22:29 lizmat afk&
22:29 gfldex i shall rakudobug
22:31 AlexDaniel harmil: none for fff
22:31 AlexDaniel there are some false-positives but no actual use
22:32 harmil I'm going to publish ^fff^.pm in a few minutes ;-)
22:32 AlexDaniel three uses of ff here: https://github.com/p6-pdf/perl6-Font-AFM/blob/master/lib/Font/AFM.pm#L242
22:33 eyck joined #perl6
22:34 AlexDaniel one more ff here: https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/lib/Pod/Htmlify.pm6#L103
22:35 AlexDaniel that's it
22:35 skids gfldex: spectest went well so I filed rakudo PR #829
22:36 skids If it goes in probably will break examples where you tried to doc the old behavior
22:49 adu joined #perl6
22:50 adu joined #perl6
22:53 gfldex skids: i will keep an eye on it
22:59 labster joined #perl6
22:59 eyck joined #perl6
23:14 jnthn joined #perl6
23:18 japhb m: sub is-power-of-two($n) { !($n +& ($n - 1)) }; is-power-of-two($_).say for ^10;  # hahainternet
23:18 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«True␤True␤True␤False␤True␤False␤False␤False␤True␤False␤»
23:18 AlexDaniel unmatched}: here?
23:20 Penguiniator joined #perl6
23:26 AlexDaniel what's the difference between 「"support" : { "source" : "…" }」 and 「"source-url": "…"」 in META6.json files?
23:27 timotimo one of them is deprecated i think?
23:28 AlexDaniel out of 680 modules there are only 26 modules with 「"support" : { "source" : "…" }」
23:28 AlexDaniel interestingly, 19 out of these 26 are by Zoffix :)
23:32 cog_ .tell vendethiel thx for the URL
23:32 yoleaux cog_: I'll pass your message to vendethiel.
23:35 AlexDaniel .tell unmatched} maybe this should be fixed, take a look: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-07-22#i_12892188
23:35 yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to unmatched}.
23:38 cdg joined #perl6
23:43 P6fr me: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans("+" =>" ")
23:44 P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans("+" =>" ")
23:44 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: ( no output )
23:44 P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans("+" =>" ").say
23:44 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«40␤»
23:44 P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans([+] =>" ").say
23:44 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix => instead␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3[5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans([+] =>7⏏5" ").say␤»
23:45 P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans(+ =>" ").say
23:45 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Prefix +  requires an argument, but no valid term found␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3[5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans(+7⏏5 =>" ").say␤    expecting any of:␤        prefix␤»
23:46 P6fr how replace the operator + by nothing
23:47 P6fr the most simple and quick way. I do not know if .trans is the most reliable
23:47 P6fr pls
23:48 P6fr m: {5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7}.trans(+ =>" ").say
23:48 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Prefix +  requires an argument, but no valid term found␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3{5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7}.trans(+7⏏5 =>" ").say␤    expecting any of:␤        prefix␤»
23:48 P6fr m: {5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7}.trans([+] =>" ").say
23:48 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix => instead␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3{5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7}.trans([+] =>7⏏5" ").say␤»
23:48 P6fr m: {5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7}.trans("+" =>" ").say
23:48 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«Method 'trans' not found for invocant of class 'Block'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
23:49 P6fr m: trans(5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7,"+" =>" ").say
23:49 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    trans used at line 1. Did you mean 'rand', 'tanh', 'srand'?␤␤»
23:49 P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans(+ =>" ").say
23:49 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Prefix +  requires an argument, but no valid term found␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3[5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans(+7⏏5 =>" ").say␤    expecting any of:␤        prefix␤»
23:50 P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans("+" =>" ").say
23:50 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«40␤»
23:50 parabolize '5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7'.trans("+" =>" ").say
23:50 P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans("1" =>" ").say
23:50 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«40␤»
23:51 parabolize it works on strings not arrays
23:51 P6fr [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].trans("+" =>" ").say for result 59635147
23:51 P6fr hum
23:52 P6fr [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].words.trans("+" =>" ").say for result 59635147
23:52 AlexDaniel m: say [5, 9, 6, 3, 5, 1, 4, 7].join(‘ ’)
23:52 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5 9 6 3 5 1 4 7␤»
23:52 P6fr m: [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].words.trans("+" =>" ").say
23:52 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«40␤»
23:52 P6fr ha
23:52 P6fr so trans is bad for that
23:53 AlexDaniel no, it's just that 5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7 will collapse into 40 no matter what you do
23:53 P6fr ok
23:54 P6fr and for delete + so ?
23:55 P6fr m: say [5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].split("+")
23:55 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«(40)␤»
23:55 P6fr ok
23:56 P6fr it's not possible
23:56 parabolize m: say Q[5+9+6+3+5+1+4+7].split("+")
23:56 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«(5 9 6 3 5 1 4 7)␤»
23:56 AlexDaniel you can't do anything unless it is a string
23:56 P6fr haaa dont know Q
23:56 parabolize P6fr: your still using an array like a string
23:57 P6fr agree it's recorder
23:57 P6fr m: say Q.WHAT
23:57 camelia rakudo-moar a37cd2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Couldn't find terminator . (corresponding . was at line 1)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say Q.WHAT7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        .␤»
23:58 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
23:58 P6fr go google so
23:58 parabolize P6fr: https://docs.perl6.org/language/quoting#Literal_strings:_Q
23:59 parabolize https://github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master/S02-literals/quoting.t

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