Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-08-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:03 Hotkeys .trans sure has some weird behaviour
00:04 Hotkeys m: say "a123b12332c".trans(<23> => <t>); say "a123b12332c".trans(<23 a> => <t a>);
00:04 camelia rakudo-moar c322e1: OUTPUT«a1ttb1ttttc␤a1tb1t32c␤»
00:04 Hotkeys it can replace matched strings but only if the match array has > 1 elems?
00:04 Hotkeys my matched strings I mean more than a single character
00:05 Hotkeys s/my/by/
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00:10 unmatched} probably some hysterical raisings to do with perl 5's tr/// that only does single-char replacements.
00:10 unmatched} rasins too
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00:19 konobi lo
00:19 yoleaux 5 Aug 2016 20:04Z <pmurias> konobi: do you have any ideas what (program):1755 might refer to in a profile I'm getting from v8?
00:20 unmatched} hel
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00:41 TEttinger unicode request: curse tablet emoji http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2866
00:42 TEttinger like a whole emoji that describes a request of a higher (or lower) power to have your enemy suffer in incredibly detailed ways. probably a whole supplementary plane, you could go nuts
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01:16 dalek doc: 97a01da | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/io.pod6:
01:16 dalek doc: make examples compile
01:16 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/97a01daf42
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01:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:10 dalek doc: 1606ce2 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/functions.pod6:
02:10 dalek doc: make examples compile, fix broken examples
02:10 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1606ce27dc
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03:45 j75 Why does this work as a one liner ls | perl6 -e 'for (lines) { say $_ }' but ls | perl6 -e 'for lines { say $_ }' doesn't work? Why is it necessary to put lines in parentheses?
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03:50 gfldex m: sub f(&c){}; f {}; for f {} {};
03:51 gfldex j75: ^^^ do you see the problem?
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03:51 gfldex m: .say for lines;
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03:52 gfldex and this is how you solve this problem
03:52 j75 .say for lines works but why does that not require (lines)
03:52 j75 @gfldex not sure I fully follow
03:52 gfldex because that form wont have a block as a 2nd "parameter" to for
03:52 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding to &c; expected Callable but got Hash (${})␤  in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:52 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ G…»
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03:53 j75 but it's ok to call for @array ?
03:53 gfldex subscripts are not separated by a space, so that case is fine
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03:54 gfldex m: my @a; for @a{1} {};
03:54 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: ( no output )
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03:56 j75 gfldex so what exactly does the () around lines do ? when called for (lines) { }
03:56 gfldex m: for lines() { .say }
03:56 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ G…»
03:56 gfldex it makes your intend clear not to call lines with a block as it's first parameter
03:59 j75 for lines() { .say } makes it clearer what's going on. is lines a sequence?
03:59 j75 gfldex appreciate your help
03:59 gfldex m: say lines().^name;
03:59 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«Seq␤»
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04:03 MasterDuke is there a way to create a single item list literal with angle quotes?
04:03 MasterDuke m: <abc>.WHAT.say; <a b c>.WHAT.say; < abc >.WHAT.say
04:03 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«(Str)␤(List)␤(Str)␤»
04:04 MasterDuke i know the first form will always be a Str, but is there some other way to do it?
04:05 MasterDuke m: ['abc'].WHAT.say
04:05 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«(Array)␤»
04:06 MasterDuke that works, but is there a way without having to use both quotes and brackets
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04:28 gfldex m: <abc>.Array.^name.say
04:28 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«Array␤»
04:28 gfldex m: my @a = <abc>; @a.^name.say;
04:28 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«Array␤»
04:29 gfldex MasterDuke: depends on where you want to use it
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05:43 gfldex m: say ¬10;
05:43 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Argument to "say" seems to be malformed␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say7⏏5 ¬10;␤Bogus postfix␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5¬10;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        s…»
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05:43 gfldex m: say ∨10;
05:43 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Argument to "say" seems to be malformed␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say7⏏5 ∨10;␤Bogus postfix␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5∨10;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤       …»
05:43 gfldex m: say 8∨10;
05:43 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Bogus postfix␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 87⏏5∨10;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤        sta…»
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06:28 mr-foobar is there a thread pool abstraction library ?
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06:30 timotimo what do you mean "abstraction library"?
06:30 timotimo there is a thread pool
06:30 timotimo what do you need abstracted about it?
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06:35 timotimo maybe it'd be a good start to read up on concurrency in perl6 and then see if the question about a thread pool abstraction library still stands
06:35 timotimo https://docs.perl6.org/language/concurrency
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07:34 j75 is the an array method similar to select in ruby?
07:35 timotimo i didn't know arrays had a method named "an"?
07:36 brrt j75: i think (not a ruby guy) we call that rep
07:36 brrt grep
07:36 j75 ruby has a select method for arrays does perl have something similar?
07:36 j75 brrt grep i think it what I am looking for thanks!
07:36 brrt yw :-)
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07:58 j75 is there a method that combines grep and map? or do i have to use grep them map ?
08:00 nine use grep then map
08:00 nine It makes your code easier to follow anyway
08:01 j75 nine, thanks thought it'd be a little more efficient if i could do them at the same time rather than iterate a second time
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08:03 nine j75: never ever try to guess at the efficiency of your code. Always benchmark. In this case your error is in assuming that the chained .grep(...).map(...) will iterate twice, which it won't.
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08:04 j75 nine, great to know! Thanks for the clear explanation
08:06 nine j75: both grep and map will actually just return an iterator. The real work happens once you ask for values (e.g. by assigning the result to an array). The assignment will ask map for the next value which in turn will ask grep for the next value. One by one.
08:07 nine That said, if you really, really insist on doing everything in the map, you can use loop control like next and last in the map, too.
08:08 j75 Understood, thanks again!
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08:17 El_Che morning
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08:32 gregf_ j75: [*1..10].select(&:even?)  == [1..10].grep(* %% 2  )
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09:37 dalek doc: 3bcbc19 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/unicode_entry.pod6:
09:37 dalek doc: show how to use digraphs (and extend them) in GNU Screen
09:37 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3bcbc19719
09:42 gfldex how to do font linking on windows. This works quite well. I linked GNU unifont to FreeMono to get pretty much all possible glyphs. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb688134.aspx
09:52 TEttinger gfldex, interesting
09:52 TEttinger there's a unifont upper too
09:58 gfldex can you read this: Ⓟⓔⓡⓛ ⑥ ?
09:59 timotimo yeah
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10:04 TEttinger yeah, I default to unifont in IRC
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10:17 lambd0x Hi fellas!
10:17 unmatched} Just fellas? :)
10:17 lambd0x unmatched}: :P
10:17 lambd0x How you're doing?
10:18 unmatched} Just woke up and hung over.
10:18 lambd0x unmatched}: too.
10:20 unmatched} m: say 'test'
10:20 camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«test␤»
10:20 unmatched} s: &say, \('test')
10:20 SourceBaby unmatched}, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/9bfbab9/src/core/io_operators.pm#L22
10:21 unmatched} \o/ it's alive
10:21 timotimo SourceBaby: source
10:21 SourceBaby timotimo, See: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-sourceable
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10:34 lambd0x finally got my little code running for multiplying matrixes after reading both from a file. \o/
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10:34 lambd0x guys is there a better way to the same: http://bpaste.net/show/6194ad04de36
10:34 lambd0x ?
10:35 timotimo is the code for first matrix the same code as for second matrix? itlooks that way
10:35 timotimo just using @B instead of @A
10:35 nine lambd0x: it could probably be a lot faster if you used native types. Assuming you can get away with it?
10:36 gregf_ implement a function that takes and presents a result of a x b where ,b are square matrices of order n
10:36 lambd0x nine: haven't seen them, where could I learn about it?
10:36 AlexDaniel committable6: HEAD https://bpaste.net/raw/6194ad04de36
10:36 committable6 AlexDaniel, Successfully fetched the code from the provided URL.
10:36 committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦«HEAD»: Cannot pop from an empty Array␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/z2wK0MsS7J line 4␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/z2wK0MsS7J line 4␤ «exit code = 1»
10:37 unmatched} lambd0x: the most obvious thing is to save matrix reading code in a function and shorten your program by like half :)
10:37 timotimo so why not either make it a function, or just put a loop around the thing
10:38 lambd0x unmatched}: will try that.
10:41 unmatched} lambd0x: what's the input file?
10:42 gregf_ wow, thats handy @arr[ind1; ind2] = <whatever>
10:44 lambd0x unmatched}: something like this: http://bpaste.net/show/63c391aa39e7 .It's created by another code of mine that generates random order matrixes (both will always have the same order)
10:48 unmatched} And always two matrices? Looks like a fun Grammar excersise there :)
10:50 lambd0x unmatched}: In this case I limited it to be yes. Because I wasn't sure how to do it at first. After I get it nice maybe I'll try augmenting the amount of matrixes :P
10:51 AlexDaniel MasterDuke: alright, it's time to make it possible to set STDIN of all our bots
10:55 unmatched} lambd0x: and if your other script can change the format of the files, I think it'd be easier to avoid specifying the length and instead specify a separator between matrices.
10:57 lambd0x unmatched}: one thing a time. But true :)
10:57 unmatched} :)
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11:11 lambd0x wow, better indeed not to work specifying sizes haahah things get more clean and sweet :P
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11:12 lambd0x here's a somewhat improved version of my earlier code: http://bpaste.net/show/a3b870198815
11:16 * stmuk_ does YAPC slides
11:19 lambd0x something else inprovable in my script guys?
11:21 timotimo no need for $file.get.words to have parenthesis
11:23 stmuk_ Perl v6.0.0 required--this is only v5.22.1
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11:23 stmuk_ I assume perl 5 needs fixing if we aren't using 6.0.0?
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11:24 lambd0x timotimo: ok
11:25 timotimo you can use the value of the outer for loop instead of manually incrementing $i
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11:27 dalek doc: 8f8e9b5 | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/objects.pod6:
11:27 dalek doc: Index BUILDALL
11:27 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8f8e9b5022
11:30 lambd0x timotimo: I don't know how to do this. Was trying it earlier eheh
11:31 lambd0x lambd0x: have a lot to learn in perl6. It's fun.
11:31 timotimo for ^$o -> $i { ... }
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11:43 lambd0x timotimo: thanks.
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12:20 bazzaar \o perl6
12:20 unmatched} \o
12:22 bazzaar .oO I am wondering why any Perl 6 introduction course would not use the excellent Perl6 Introduction by Naoum Hankache as it's backbone ?
12:22 unmatched} :/
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12:25 unmatched} benchable: sleep 60*10
12:25 benchable unmatched}: ¦«sleep»:Cannot find this revision
12:25 [Coke] bazzaar: is there a course in particular you think should have done that?
12:25 unmatched} committable6: HEAD sleep 60*10
12:25 unmatched} committable6: HEAD say 'meow'
12:25 committable6 unmatched}, ¦«HEAD»: «timed out after 10 seconds, output»:  «exit signal = SIGHUP (1)»
12:25 committable6 unmatched}, ¦«HEAD»: meow
12:26 bazzaar Having a themed set of code problems for users to tackle, giving the users 5-10mins breaks to research the appropriate section of Nauom's tutorial, has got to be the right approach, hasn't it?'s tutorial
12:27 * unmatched} wouldn't want to attend such a course.
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12:28 mst unmatched}: hrm?
12:29 mst why wouldn't reverse engineering slides and materials and treating perl6intro as course notes work?
12:29 bazzaar [Coke] ... yes ....?,?@
12:30 unmatched} 'cause I can just do it at home, at my leasure, without having to race for the 5-10min mark. I can equally go through codeeval.com's problems using perl6intro as course notes
12:30 unmatched} I'd expect the course to teach me something and the 5-10min window is where I try to apply my new knowledge to build something
12:31 [Coke] bazzaar: ok, which one are you thinking of that didn't do that?
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12:33 bazzaar unmatched}: yes I know that anyone could do that, but when I look for a video on Perl6 introduction to work through, in a structured way, with some code problems that tie together, then I don't get that, I get something else
12:34 [Coke] bazzaar: I don't think anyone is making a coherent set of videos for that sort of thing, no.
12:34 mst bazzaar: oh, you want a *video*, not a course?
12:34 mst you never said that
12:35 [Coke] mst: does anyone other than gabor do that regularly on the p5 side?
12:35 mst not really. I do wish we had somebody who could actually write working perl doing videos, but I've not managed to convince anybody yet
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12:36 bazzaar [Coke]: I don't want to point the finger, what I want is the fabulous product that is perl6, to be marketed and promoted in the best possible way
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12:36 [Coke] bazzaar: ok. you should lead with that, then. :)
12:37 [Coke] also, please find us a marketer. :)
12:37 perlpilot bazzaar: wanting that makes it partly your responsibility  :P
12:37 mst bazzaar: so, start trying to make a video from perl6intro.com and let people help
12:37 * [Coke] notes down one request for video learnin'.
12:37 mst [Coke]: you know TPF has like an entire marketing team, right? just only liz and wendy seem to ever talk to them
12:38 unmatched} bazzaar: well, I take it it's an offer then? We do have a marketing repo in dire need of contribution: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/
12:38 * unmatched} tries to imagine storing videos in a github repo :o
12:38 [Coke] mst: no, I had no idea.
12:39 [Coke] mst: let me downgrade to "very little idea"
12:39 mst [Coke]: mdk gives talks every couple years reminding people they exist
12:39 mst but without the community saying they want stuff done
12:39 mst TPF's treasurer (Dan Wright) will never allocate an actual budget for it
12:39 [Coke] mst: I have no way to get to the YAPCs these days. :|
12:39 mst and no access to youtube? :)
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12:40 bazzaar O'Reilly make the video's, the perl6 community say 'who / what' should be the official approach / communicators, the perl6 code isn't being left to chance, why should it's marketing
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12:40 mst ...
12:40 mst bazzaar: that's not how free software works
12:40 mst unless you're planning to personally pay O'Reilly to do that
12:40 [Coke] bazzaar: I think you misunderstand perl 6 and tpf's relationship with ORA.
12:40 mst because they really don't care much about perl
12:40 mst they're a conference company now
12:41 mst perl6's code is handled by volunteers. so will its marketing.
12:41 DrForr *cough* https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/the-perl-6/9781491968321/
12:41 unmatched} :)
12:41 * mst wonders why people are always insistant that marketing should be magically done by other people
12:41 mst even though they know that code doesn't get written unless somebody writes it
12:42 mst I wonder if this is the dilbert principle thingy in reverse
12:42 mst "I hear mauve gets the most pageviews"
12:42 * [Coke] has found it's much easier to find good developers willing to donate their time than it is to find good marketers.
12:42 unmatched} lol
12:43 [Coke] bazzaar: anyway, yes, "we suck at marketing" is our slogan, so we get it. Constructive suggestions welcomed on how to improve the situation.
12:43 mst [Coke]: well, mdk tries, but then TPF won't let him have any money to market *with*
12:43 unmatched} Stopping saying "we suck at marketing" would be the good first step :)
12:43 [Coke] unmatched}: I tOLD YOU we WER Ebad at THIS OK!?
12:43 bazzaar I am not criticising the open source effort, that is not my point. The best perl6 video's (sound and vision) are the ones newcomers will be drawn to.
12:44 [Coke] mst: so there's half a dozen people on an unfunded committee?
12:44 [Coke] bazzaar: ok. so next step: who is going to make and publish and market those videos?
12:44 bazzaar they need to be effective products
12:44 unmatched} heh
12:44 DrForr Good quality perl 6 videos will be good? Who knew?...
12:45 [Coke] mst: frustrating! (glad i'm on the one that gets some cash occasionally!)
12:45 mst [Coke]: pretty much. he manages to get money for print materials but generally has to ask on a per-print-run basis because TPF won't give them a budget
12:45 mst yeah, well, welcome to the world according to Dan Wright, where nobody else is allowed to decide things ever ;)
12:45 [Coke] mst: it's kind of how we do grants. we never know how much money we have, we have to ask at the end of each round what we can afford to fund.
12:45 [Coke] ... as I understand it.
12:46 [Coke] that's actually one level above my pay grade, which I've been fine to keep there.
12:46 mst yeah, thing is, nobody except me appears to think this is worth complaining about, and if it's -only- me, it's easy to dismiss as 'mst is being an ass again'
12:47 mst so we continue to not actually have any way to get to functional marketing
12:47 mst and there's basically nothing I can do about it if nobody else will bother speaking up :(
12:48 unmatched} bazzaar: IMO that's too expensive to be the main focus of Perl 6 marketing. And tossing around several hundreds of gigs of raw data also makes collaboration by volunteers difficult.
12:48 DrForr That's why I've said 'fuck it' and started doing stuff. It's *not hard* to get in to these conferences, hell, if *I* cn.
12:49 bazzaar I am speaking up, I am going out on a limb just by voicing my thoughts on this
12:49 itaipu joined #perl6
12:50 unmatched} bazzaar: for comparison, the last 3.5 minute video I shot at work took two hours to shoot (included decisions on how it should be shot), took me about 30 minutes to edit, with the intro theme already done, and my repo for that job is 2.55GB
12:50 mst bazzaar: you're going out on a limb telling other people what to do, and refusing to help
12:50 mst bazzaar: that's not how open source works
12:50 mst unmatched}: hey, do youhave a good canonical example of perl6's errors being awesome? I'm trying to wow a rust dev
12:51 [Coke] m: my Rag $a;
12:51 camelia rakudo-moar 76be77: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Type 'Rag' is not declared. Did you mean any of these?␤    Rat␤    Bag␤␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my Rag7⏏5 $a;␤Malformed my␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my7⏏5 Rag $a;␤␤»
12:51 unmatched} mst: funny that you mention, I kind thought rust's new error thing they announced was kinda awesome... awesomer than maybe even Perl 6 :)
12:51 bazzaar all I'm saying is, if perl6 related talks/ tutorials like those at Oscon are being professionally recorded, then it is imperative that there is coordinatination within the opensource community about how the product should be
12:52 unmatched} bazzaar: you got cut off after "the product should be"
12:53 [Coke] mst: mailed mdk
12:53 [Coke] er, mk, whatever his MI is.
12:53 mst [Coke]: note if I've oversold what's doable here that's entirely my fault
12:54 mst I've been spending so long just trying to get people to talk to him in the first place that I may've garbled what is/isn't doable
12:54 bazzaar mst: I havn't refused to help, I have helped in a minor way previously bringing to light some bugs in the perl6 grammar and DBIish
12:54 mst I hope, under the circumstances, if that's the case, you'll forgive me
12:54 unmatched} We want a giant billboard! :D
12:55 mst bazzaar: training courses don't generally get recorded because the trainers need to get paid, sadly
12:55 [Coke] mst: eh, just pinging him to start a conversation, no worries.
12:56 DrForr bazzaar: You have control of your own presentation and style, that's it.
12:56 mst bazzaar: ok, but "we need to do X" type things don't generally help. "I think we should do X, and here's how I propose to start making that happen" helps
12:56 mst bazzaar: start doing stuff and then try and rope other people in
12:57 pmurias speaking of rust errors, https://blog.rust-lang.org/2016/08/10/Shape-of-errors-to-come.html is kindof interesting
12:57 unmatched} bazzaar: in other words, we don't suffer from lack of ideas :) It's the peoplehours and finances that are the limiting factors
12:57 mst yes, that's what led to me asking
12:57 mst unmatched}: anyway, got a good example?
12:57 AlexDaniel .oO( rope! That's what we are good at )
12:57 unmatched} m: say Any eq $x
12:57 camelia rakudo-moar 76be77: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$x' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say Any eq 7⏏5$x␤»
12:57 unmatched} m: say Any eq 'x'
12:57 camelia rakudo-moar 76be77: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context.␤Methods .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can be used to stringify it to something meaningful.  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤False␤»
12:57 markk joined #perl6
12:58 unmatched} mst: nothing amazing comes to mind.
12:58 markk [Coke]: figured I'd just pop in here rather than keep it to email
12:58 markk The people I have worked with in the Perl6 community have generally been Liz and Wendy
12:59 markk And one or two others at conferences
12:59 AlexDaniel mst: perhaps try searching for “did you mean” in rakudo?
12:59 pierre_ joined #perl6
12:59 mst pmurias: possibly also of interest -
13:00 mst 13:59 <nox> Most of our stuff comes from Elm, especially the layout for  --explain with actual English sentences and whatnot.
13:00 mst 13:59 <nox> http://elm-lang.org/blog/compiler-errors-for-humans
13:00 markk As mst pointed out the biggest block at the moment is that I have to present a case for funds each time. Technically I spend and they refund me, however I think I am still owed on the last print run (perl 6 and perl 5 stickerts and Perl 6 pamphlets) and I didn't get refunded for FLOSS yet
13:00 markk Some of this is my fault for not aggressively chasing it, Dan is a volunteer as well
13:00 jnthn mst: The ones that do Leavensh^WLeven^WLichtenstein^Wedit distance to suggest what you maybe meant are kinda nice
13:00 jnthn m: sai 42
13:00 camelia rakudo-moar 76be77: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    sai used at line 1. Did you mean 'say'?␤␤»
13:01 markk As for producing videos, again possible. What you need to work out is what you are trying to achieve
13:01 jnthn m: class A { has $!x; method m() { $x } }
13:01 camelia rakudo-moar 76be77: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$x' is not declared. Did you mean '$!x'?␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3class A { has $!x; method m() { 7⏏5$x } }␤»
13:01 [Coke] ok. I mean, I trust liz and wendy with our marketing more than any of the other people that just do dev. :)
13:01 markk Do you want to promote Perl 6 or teach people how to use it - and don't say both. The issue with marketing thus far is that everyone wants to do it all
13:01 mst I did mention that liz and wendy and mdk had been talking
13:01 [Coke] markk: Bot---- oh. :)
13:02 markk You need to have one goal for the whole campaign or you get the current mess which I have trouble solving without funds
13:02 * mst shakes [Coke] :P
13:02 [Coke] also, liz++ wendy++
13:02 DrForr bazzaar: I'm one of two people that's presenting Perl 6 in conjunction with OSCON. I asked people what I should talk about, and the response I got meant I basically wrote my own material, because of being Warnocked.
13:02 ptolemarch joined #perl6
13:02 markk mst: I read the backlog that [Coke] sent me :)
13:02 mst ah good
13:02 [Coke] markk: I don't know enough about marketing to know which of those two choices is better.
13:03 markk So what are you hoping to achieve?
13:03 perlpilot [Coke]: teaching people how to use Perl 6 would be best IMGO
13:03 perlpilot er, IMHO
13:03 edehont joined #perl6
13:03 [Coke] I would imagine we can teach people how to perl 6 with our current resources, though.
13:03 [Coke] G... Godlike? ;)
13:03 markk And teaching people may not get you more eyes looking at it
13:03 [Coke] so, see, even perlpilot and I cannot agree. :)
13:03 perlpilot yeah, that's it ;)
13:04 Actualeyes joined #perl6
13:04 DrForr And if I felt I was required to ask a committee of open source people to dictate my course content, I would ... have done nothing.
13:04 El_Che DrForr: you rebel
13:04 prammer joined #perl6
13:04 unmatched} I'm hoping to achieve: we straighten out the whole "Name Issue". That is: people thinking Perl 6 is just some mild improvement over some old language that was popular in the 90s
13:04 mst JFDI + -Ofun don't always produce the most co-ordinated results but they sure as heck produce results
13:04 pduh joined #perl6
13:05 unmatched} And I don't mean renaming anything, but getting people to know that Perl 6 is a new language. And it's the next "cutting edge" or whatever over the 25 year old Pythons and their kin
13:06 unmatched} Once they know Perl 6 is something new and shiny and not a minor upgrade to an old language, I don't think we'll have trouble teaching people Perl 6.
13:06 markk Doesn't help when Larry calls it a teenager, it isn't. It is 8 months old, just had a 15 year pregnancy was all
13:07 unmatched} It's not uncommon that someone comments with "20 years too late, Perl 6" on my Perl 6 languages and that's entirely a matter of ignorance and that's what I'd aim the marketing efforts to change.
13:07 pduh_ joined #perl6
13:07 unmatched} *my Perl 6 articles
13:07 AlexDaniel markk: O_O
13:07 markk unmatched}: I think you might be devaluing people a little, it isn't new and shiny they go for at all, it is the missing out on the next big thing - Python and Javascript are neither new or shiny
13:07 mst both postmodern *and* postmature
13:07 DrForr bazzaar: On the other hand, if you're interested in proposing talks to OSCON, FOSDEM, SXSW &c I can give you a hand writing your roposals.
13:08 AlexDaniel .oO( ropeosals )
13:08 nine Speaking of budgets: we're now at 4500 Euros that my company did not contribute, because neither TPF, nor the YAPC Europe foundation seem to be capable of writing invoices which is the only thing I need in return for my 500 Euros / month budget.
13:08 El_Che imho, one of DrForr's project would be a nice addition for the sexyness of perl6. The atom beautifier packages uses perltidy for reformatting perl5 and perl6, what does not really work for perl6. With madcapjake perlfe's and azawawi's linter, perl6 programming on atom looks ok
13:08 nine [Coke]: ^^^
13:08 cdg joined #perl6
13:09 markk The aim is not to educate people, or change their minds, marketing will not do that for you. You have to tell them something, or repeat something, you have to make them want the thing, not give them a wiki article
13:09 skids joined #perl6
13:09 markk It's not about showing them, it is about moving them into a position where they want it
13:09 DrForr El_Che: I'm getting whitespace handled this weekend.
13:09 mcmillhj joined #perl6
13:09 bazzaar DrForr: It is not for me to criticise an individuals efforts, my original question, was why when we have an excellent web tutorial, why was isn't it being used in the media products that newcomers will be drawn too
13:10 cdg joined #perl6
13:10 markk It is why you have one goal and all your targetting should be towards making that goal happen
13:10 perlpilot markk: but telling them things without also having a way for them to easily learn and use Perl 6 seems a little useless to me.  It ends up with frustrated potential users.
13:10 markk Coke is over a hundred and one of its marketing points is that it is a 'fresh taste'
13:10 perlpilot "Perl 6 looks cool, but I can't figure out how to do anything without #perl6"
13:11 markk perlpilot: I do not disagree
13:11 markk perlpilot: but we were discussing marketing and what you are trying to achieve by it
13:11 markk perlpilot: if you don't have the tools to support people learning then that's a different focus
13:11 El_Che DrForr: I volunteer to at least have a go for patch to atom-beautifier when you think it's ok. Not reaaly a knowledgable at JS, but I had a look yesterday and the patch seems trivial (I wrote a small one to activiate for perl6fe as it's seen by atom as a different grammar than perl6)
13:12 markk hence my question about what you are trying to achieve
13:13 unmatched} markk: what if there's nothing to be missing out on? I mean, Perl 6 doesn't have a niche, it's also slow and can be frustratingly buggy.
13:13 perlpilot A virtuous cycle of continual converts  ;)
13:13 DrForr bazzaar: Well, find someone that does good voiceovers and write a script? I don't have a great voice, otherwise I'd volunteer.
13:13 markk If we want shiny videos to educate then we should focus on that but that shouldn't be confused with getting people to look at them as those are not the same
13:14 markk unmatched}: are you saying it has no usp whatsoever that I might as well use Perl5 or Python or JS?
13:15 [Coke] markk: ... your line about Coke REALLY confused me for about 10 seconds. :)
13:15 pduh joined #perl6
13:15 markk Because I can do the flippant taglines 'perl6: just like every other language but slower and likely to crash' - not a great usp
13:15 [Coke] nine, markk: markk, you are closer to the finance than I am, can you ping someone about nine's comment there?
13:15 markk [Coke]: oops, yeah sorry
13:16 DrForr Rust, Go and Swift users could ask the same question of perl6, python, js/node as well.
13:16 mst nine: bet EPO could do it
13:17 nine This is so frustrating. I walked to management, asked for 500€/month for supporting free software and actually got it. Now wasting a lot of work time trying to find someone who can take the money seems excessive.
13:17 markk nine: email info@enlightenedperl.org with your offer and I will get you an invoice for the money by the end of the day - just need the ammount, the frequency and a business address for the invoice
13:18 pduh__ left #perl6
13:18 El_Che nine++ : wow
13:18 perlpilot markk++
13:18 markk Fuck it, give me the details in query with your email address and I will get it done now
13:18 markk nine++ btw
13:18 mst nine: this would be one of the reasons I arranged for EPO to exist
13:19 mst nine++
13:19 unmatched} markk: I can't think of any. I like the language for many of its small things, like letting me avoid using brackets all over the place. Perl 6 doesn't have a great ecosystem. It's too slow for web apps. It's too buggy for me to recommend using it as a primary language *right now* for some large business up. All of this kinda leads to lack of volunteers and points to the question: how do we get more volunteers
13:19 unmatched} to be interested in this language to make it faster and less buggy?
13:19 perlpilot There's not enough ++ for nine.  (I'm overly enamored of Inline::Perl5 :)
13:19 markk Nine - EPO will use the money to fund Perl-QA, CPAN Testers (all their servers) - Strawberry Perl (servers and bandwidth) and anything else that sounds good - we got MetaCPAN their server sponsorship as well
13:20 nine markk: all sound like things that help us at work (maybe except for Strawberry), so I'd be completely ok with supporting them :)
13:20 unmatched} s/business up/business app/; # can't type today >_<
13:22 unmatched} Community might be Perl 6's USP, but I suspect it'll change as we grow larger and it doesn't stop people going "ROFLMAO LOOK! They made a new regex syntax that's not compatible with anything!!!!"
13:23 DrForr FWIW Inline::Perl5 needs more publicity, at least as a transition solution from perl5.
13:23 unmatched} Awesome concurency too. But all of the awesome bits are currently NIY, so it's hard to sell people on them, and points again to too few volunteers implementing things.
13:23 tadzik yep, it's a huge marketing thing
13:23 mst NIY?
13:23 mst oh, not implemented yet
13:24 jnthn Um, what exactly is not implemented yet?
13:24 jnthn "Implemented but has a bunch of rough edges" we have in abundance.
13:24 edwinsage joined #perl6
13:24 unmatched} jnthn: all of the autothreading that's currently doesn';t autothread
13:24 mst unmatched}: yeah, this is why I'm slowly grinding towards being able to get at grammars in a way that makes me happy, and then I'm going to trick myself and other people into using perl6 via that
13:25 DrForr mst: So I need to finish up my ANTLR translator? :)
13:25 markk DrForr: that's an internal thing though and you talking about it at conferences works well
13:25 unmatched} jnthn: at least I got that feel from Damian's concurrency talk. Every time he pointed out something awesome like hyper ops or feeds, he then went and said it's NIY
13:26 jnthn So there's a bunch of stuff that's both implemented and nice and he focused on a bunch of stuff that isn't? :P
13:26 ugexe some feeds are implemented though
13:26 unmatched} ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
13:27 ugexe i still look forward to the double pointy feed
13:28 perlpilot ugexe: what would it do?
13:29 mst DrForr: I don't understand ANTLR at all, my favourite thing about grammars is that they actually sort of seem to make sense to me
13:31 jonas2 joined #perl6
13:31 ugexe perlpilot: allows multiple sources to be used as a single source (maybe worded poorly)
13:33 ugexe `@a1 ==>> @a2 ==>  map { say $_ }` instead of `map { say $_ }, flat (@a1, @a2)`
13:34 Woodi ugexe: (@a1, @a2) ==> map {.... } would be nice
13:35 TheLemonMan joined #perl6
13:35 Woodi maybe even: my $f1 = Feed.new(@a0) ?
13:35 ugexe Woodi: but i'd prefer to have @a1 and @a2 on their own line (as well as the map)
13:36 unmatched} @a1 ⇒ @a2 ⇒ map { } would be nice :P
13:36 ugexe http://design.perl6.org/S03.html#Terminator_precedence shows an example of chaining ==>> and ==> in that way
13:37 Woodi I think it's similiar to Supplies but Supplies are like "ether" in Actor model without Actors, just hannels to comunicate... no subject to address
13:37 dbrock joined #perl6
13:38 Woodi ...so my brain have problems with that
13:43 gregf_ rust.... *wonders*
13:44 gregf_ do error stacktraces use levenshtein distances in Perl6?
13:44 ugexe ==>> just iterates over each end individually but in sequence such that they are like a single sequence, so the next subsequent sink only ever sees a single sequence when it tries to pull 1 value at a time through it
13:45 ugexe which can already be done as shown, but the ==>>/==> allow the code to be formatted in a way i prefer
13:46 [Coke] gregf_: we use it for suggestion alternatives to missing names. Not sure if you mean something more specific.
13:46 Woodi anyway, last nightt unmatched} freeked ;)  about Perl6 being easy to explode and it looks like pattern... eg. I once got mad about every loop iteration traversing LD_LIBRARY_PATH :)  so, IMO, marketing can wait a bit
13:47 unmatched} Woodi++ I think I can agree.
13:48 gregf_ [Coke]: yep, i mean as a spell checker
13:48 unmatched} And we can use more people to do core stuff. Hint Hint. There's a course for it: https://github.com/edumentab/rakudo-and-nqp-internals-course
13:49 AlexDaniel I think that I agree too. The problem is not so much the marketing, but the compiler that is not bulletproof yet
13:53 dbrock joined #perl6
13:55 [Coke] While it's definitely a concern of mine that if we market to people and they find bugs; I don't know enough about advertising to say that we shouldn't do ANY advertising yet.
13:55 gregf_ joined #perl6
13:56 [Coke] That's why we need people who aren't developers or users to weigh in. :)
13:56 ugexe my perl6 marketing lately has been "perl6 will be a great fit for this project in 2 years". but that also involves the state of the ecosystem
13:56 awwaiid unmatched}: nice link! is it up to date enough?
13:57 unmatched} awwaiid: I'm half-way through it and it looks to be uptodate enough, with the exception of mentioning Parrot
13:57 awwaiid I think if you want marketing you should go to non-perl conferences, meetups, contests, etc. I know TimToady is going to Abstractions.io for example, which is a fantastic example.
13:57 awwaiid unmatched}: ok cool
13:58 awwaiid Maybe advertising is also about setting good expectations? On the one hand there are bugs. On the other hand people can influence the implementation/language through their experience :)
13:59 pduh_ joined #perl6
14:00 AlexDaniel .oO( “Reporting rakudo bugs is fun!”… I can definitely write a post or two on that topic, but not sure if this is going to help anything… )
14:01 perlpilot awwaiid++ (setting expectations)
14:01 TheLemonMan underpromise and overdeliver then :)
14:02 n1lp7r joined #perl6
14:02 gregf_ marketing depends on the project manager *runs*
14:02 perlpilot TheLemonMan: sure, that's just one aspect though.
14:03 gregf_ or product owner *ducks again*
14:03 bob777 joined #perl6
14:04 pmurias the users experience github repo seemed like a good initiative
14:04 pmurias I don't know anything about marketing stuff, but reducing the amount of times new users get annoyed seems important
14:05 gregf_ yeah sure, the product should market iself :)
14:06 * pmurias finally gets round to removing annoying stuff from modules.perl6.org
14:06 perlpilot gregf_: well volunteered! (for all those "job positions" you keep mentioning  :-)
14:06 gregf_ i guess if your oracle/ms/apple, you wont need marketing .. you can always bully :)
14:07 prammer joined #perl6
14:07 gregf_ perlpilot: heh
14:07 RabidGravy boom!
14:07 Woodi btw. maybe "20 years to late?" would be nice presentation on computer [scripting] languages state :)
14:08 TheLemonMan 20? I thought it was just 16 years late
14:09 Woodi TheLemonMan: I mean, generaly, not only Perl6
14:09 RabidGravy yeah a language with these capabilities should have existed twenty years ago
14:09 RabidGravy though I'm not entirely sure it could have
14:10 pduh joined #perl6
14:10 perlpilot Perl 6 is not late at all.  I don't know what you're talking about
14:10 Woodi perlpilot: just commenting on some inet commet ;)
14:11 pduh_ joined #perl6
14:11 unmatched} perlpilot: it was in reference to my quoting a comment on one of my P6 articles: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4w7onf/perl_6_core_hacking_wheres_da_sauce_boss/d654ckz
14:12 * perlpilot tends to have an auto-ignore brain filter for such comments
14:12 mst right, perl6 as the name of the language continues to screw both languages over, just like it has been doing for over a decade
14:12 mst but larry gets to call what he wants perl, so shrug
14:12 pmurias unmatched}: how do I install all the deps for modules.perl6.org using cpanm?
14:13 perlpilot pmurias: took me a second to understand what you were asking  ...  I was thinking "What?!? We can install Perl 6 modules with cpanm now?!?" at first   :-)
14:14 gregf_ cpanm++
14:15 pmurias unmatched}: I figured it out
14:15 unmatched} pmurias: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/4e578ed07fca169fb086bc64a6892956
14:15 unmatched} pmurias: no idea how to make it automatically use the Build.pm stuff
14:16 unmatched} *Build.PL
14:16 leedo cpanm --installdeps . works with Makefile.pl, not sure about Build.PL
14:16 cdg_ joined #perl6
14:17 unmatched} pmurias: what annoying bits were you going to remove?
14:18 pmurias koalatee
14:18 unmatched} There's a Bit Rot branch https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/tree/bit-rot that I've no finished to address https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/issues/60
14:18 unmatched} Ah... k :)
14:23 mcmillhj joined #perl6
14:23 pmurias unmatched}: installing Mew fails: http://paste.debian.net/788300/
14:25 mst pmurias: did you upgrade Test::Exception like the error message tells you you need to?
14:26 mst looks like Test::Most needs a bumped release with a higher dep, and then Mew needs to dep the new Test::Most
14:26 grondilu m: Blob.new but role {}  # can't mixin a Blob?
14:26 camelia rakudo-moar 387806: OUTPUT«This REPR cannot change type␤  in any mixin at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 1318␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:27 grondilu m: Buf.new but role {}
14:27 camelia rakudo-moar 387806: OUTPUT«This REPR cannot change type␤  in any mixin at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 1318␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:27 unmatched} Would it really matter? I'm not testing exceptions on that line.
14:27 unmatched} FWIW, the tests pass on 5.22 perl :/
14:28 mst it's unlikely to be anything to do with 5.22
14:28 mst and everything to do with what versions of things
14:28 jnthn grondilu: No
14:29 pmurias mst: I upgraded Test::Exception and it still fails
14:29 pduh_ left #perl6
14:29 mst hrmf
14:30 mst lemme see what happens
14:30 mst sigh. works here as well
14:31 mst ah, interesting, the chained method isn't getting chained
14:32 unmatched} FWIW, I'm not using any chained stuff on modules.perl6.org code
14:32 mst unmatched}: upgrade MooX::ChainedAttributes from 0.04 to 0.05
14:32 mst I think that change broke your shit
14:33 mst ... nope
14:33 mst hmmm
14:33 * mst downgrades Moo
14:33 mst yep, blammo
14:33 mst pmurias: upgrade Moo
14:34 Woodi mst: re: "perl6 as the name of the language continues to screw both languages"  I think it is 90% not true. in apache 1.* vs 2.* it would be 100% not true, yes. but RFCs count is proof that things was/are FUBARed. perl5 is native /usr/bin citizen just like /bin/sed and awk, it's classic you can use when you need
14:34 mst unmatched}: 2.000002 (now backpan only) doesn't appear to work with the latest Moo
14:34 mst Woodi: I think that I've spend ten years listening to trolls use it to attack us both and to perl5 and perl6 people get upset about it
14:35 mst Woodi: the evidence says that it has not been good for either of us
14:35 mst you're welcome to disbelieve in reality, but reality won't care
14:36 pmurias the Perl 6 vs Perl 5 distinction is something I have to explain to people everytime I try to explain what I'm working on
14:37 unmatched} pmurias: did upgrading Moo help?
14:37 Woodi mst: pls read again. it's not same like with apache. perl5 was/is in pls-move-me-into-ex&vi-location
14:37 pmurias unmatched}: yep
14:37 unmatched} Awesome. mst++ :)
14:37 mst Woodi: please note that's nothing to do with anything I was saying.
14:38 mst Woodi: some of us regard perl5 as a viable language for new work, and enjoy writing it, and the existence of perl6 makes it much harder to justify it
14:38 mst and meanwhile, perl6 being a different language is used as a reason to ignore perl6
14:38 Woodi mst: and what you say ? you listen to trolls :)
14:38 mst ...
14:39 mst ah, yes, "let's insult the person making the point" as a strategy
14:39 mst clearly I am terribly wrong
14:39 TheLemonMan I picked up a random LTA ticket from the bug tracker and with some help from the kind guys over at #moarvm found out what triggers it, I'd love to send in a patch but I don't quite get what the correct behaviour is in this case
14:39 Woodi yes, you sayd that also, I just skipped
14:40 unmatched} TheLemonMan: what the patch is for? MoarVM NQP Rakudo?
14:40 mst you miss the point. OTHER PEOPLE listen to the trolls, and then don't use either perl.
14:41 mst if you're going to say "I don't want anybody who can't 100% reliably spot a troll even from the outside where the names are completely confusing to become a user", you're ruling out lots of the internet
14:41 Woodi mst: in late 90s I was surprised how ppls hate perl5. and now it is better
14:42 mst it is somewhat better. but I get very tired of explaining that "no, perl5 isn't obsolete, perl6 is a separate language"
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14:43 TheLemonMan it is the ticket #127767, the problem lies in the fact that next-interesting-index (trough AT-POS) in Backtrace.pm ends up skipping the infix:<!> frame because $settings is undef and the infix operator is actually defined in a CORE.setting (thus making is-setting return true and making the loop in next-interesting-index discard that frame when showing the backtrace)
14:43 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=127767
14:43 grondilu jnthn: why not?
14:43 TheLemonMan unmatched}, Rakudo
14:44 unmatched} TheLemonMan: you'd submit a PR against this repo: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/  do you know how do to PRs?
14:44 ugexe he wants to know what the PR should do
14:44 unmatched} Oh, sorry.
14:45 unmatched} bah :) /me blushes
14:45 grondilu FYI I was looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LEB128, and was considering implementing it with something like role LEB128 { method UInt(blob8:) {...}; method blob8(UInt:) {...} }
14:45 grondilu but I stumbled upon the fact that I can't mixin blobs, apparently.
14:46 TheLemonMan yep, I do know how to submit a PR :)
14:46 Nex6 joined #perl6
14:46 unmatched} :)
14:46 TheLemonMan sorry for the delay but vim is struggling with those big p6 files :|
14:46 Nex6 joined #perl6
14:46 unmatched} s: &infix<!>
14:46 SourceBaby unmatched}, Something's wrong: â�¤ERR: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling -eâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    infix used at line 6. Did you mean 'indir', 'index'?â�¤â�¤
14:47 unmatched} s: &infix:<!>
14:47 SourceBaby unmatched}, Something's wrong: â�¤ERR: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling -eâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    infix:<!> used at line 6. Did you mean 'infix:<∖>', 'infix:<o>', 'infix:<⊎>', 'infix:<∩>', 'infix:<∈>'?â�¤â�¤
14:47 unmatched} feh
14:49 jnthn prefix ;)
14:49 unmatched} s: &prefix:<!>
14:49 SourceBaby unmatched}, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/3878066/src/core/Bool.pm#L74
14:49 unmatched} \o/
14:49 jnthn grondilu: Because it uses a primitive representation rather than a P6opaque object representation
14:50 pmurias TheLemonMan: I sometimes find that turning of syntax highlight in vim helps when it's having trouble with too big files
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14:50 timotimo i don't understand why perltricks tweeted about the weekly adding "via @loltimo" at the end :\
14:51 RabidGravy I saw that too
14:54 TheLemonMan pmurias, after a quick look at the syntax file that's used for p6 I guess I'll go down that route heh
14:57 heatsink TheLemonMan: curious, just how big is the file your working with?
14:57 Nex6 joined #perl6
14:58 TheLemonMan heatsink, ~76K
14:58 unmatched} :o
14:59 unmatched} What is it?
14:59 Nex6 joined #perl6
14:59 timotimo perhaps the core setting
14:59 nbg joined #perl6
14:59 TheLemonMan unmatched}, src/core/Exception.pm
14:59 unmatched} It's 2578 lines....
14:59 unmatched} https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/core/Exception.pm
15:00 unmatched} And CORE-setting is ~40K, but... do we edit it directly?
15:00 TheLemonMan oh, I was talking about the size in bytes
15:00 unmatched} Ah
15:00 RabidGravy Exception.pm opens really quickly for me in vim
15:01 unmatched} I need some coffee. Can't think straight today :)
15:01 heatsink coffee++, but we drink more tea here, tea++
15:02 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: 38a0b82 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | Build.PL:
15:02 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: Bump Mew version
15:02 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot:
15:02 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: To avoid test failures it has with older Moo
15:02 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/38a0b82977
15:03 [Coke] unmatched}++ is correct, coffee is the correct beverage. :|
15:03 * [Coke] puts down his Coke Zero and goes to get a coffee.
15:03 ugexe time to graduate to amphetamines
15:04 RabidGravy it's the only way
15:04 moritz or, like, sleep
15:04 moritz totally web 1.0, but works quite well
15:05 perlpilot joined #perl6
15:05 TheLemonMan RabidGravy, same here, but it's excruciatingly slow when scrolling trough it
15:05 RabidGravy that's fine here too
15:06 dalek doc: f8691e9 | (Christopher Bottoms)++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod6:
15:06 dalek doc: More clear, plus link to additional information
15:06 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f8691e9173
15:06 TheLemonMan that's weird, it's still slow even without loading my vimrc
15:07 RabidGravy small memory or slow disk drice
15:08 RabidGravy drice?
15:08 RabidGravy drive
15:08 unmatched} arnsholt: weren't it you who were saying CORE-setting loads fine in vim when I made that comment about editors grinding to half in my article? Seems like it has trouble opening even a 3K-line file...
15:08 perlpilot joined #perl6
15:09 TheLemonMan there's plenty of ram and a fast ssd, I guess it's just vim that's playing tricks on me
15:09 heatsink 76K isn't that big, is it that syntax highlighting to parsing the file multiple times i.e once per rule,or something
15:12 khw joined #perl6
15:14 literal TheLemonMan: are you using the latest perl6.vim or one that was bundled with Vim? there's a difference in performance
15:18 TheLemonMan literal, I actually get the same behaviour with both
15:19 pmurias TheLemonMan: with syntax highlighting disabled vim shouldn't have any problems with editing the whole setting
15:20 telex joined #perl6
15:20 TheLemonMan indeed, I was just wondering what the root cause of the slowness was
15:20 harmil_wk joined #perl6
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15:27 literal is DBIish (sqlite) not usable from multiple threads? I sometimes get the following output: https://gist.github.com/hinrik/a301b35d75853a4b31ff6c83e849c566
15:27 literal other times it runs without errors
15:28 prammer joined #perl6
15:28 RabidGravy the sqlite library itself may or may not be thread safe depending on how it was compiled IIRC (and/or some runtime configuration)
15:29 RabidGravy https://www.sqlite.org/threadsafe.html
15:30 Ariantes_ Hello
15:31 unmatched} \o\
15:32 mcmillhj joined #perl6
15:39 AlexDaniel .u ⪥
15:39 yoleaux U+2AA5 GREATER-THAN BESIDE LESS-THAN [Sm] (⪥)
15:41 pmurias unmatched}: I didn't specify --no-app-start and the modules.perl6.org didn't start
15:43 literal RabidGravy: from the error it looks more like the DBIish might not be accounting for the case when multiple threads try to connect before the DB driver has been initialized
15:45 literal another fun thing I see is that it occasionally just dies with "Segmentation fault"
15:45 itaipu joined #perl6
15:45 unmatched} pmurias: where is the --no-app-start from? Looks like the docs need an update. The not-starting-an-app is the default now and you need an explicit --restart-app option
15:46 pmurias unmatched}: from the README, and the DEPLOYMENT docs
15:46 unmatched} pmurias: well, "need" is not exactly accurate. You can run bin/morbo to start the dev server with the site
15:47 unmatched} k, I'll be sure to go over the docs as part of the Bit Rot work.
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16:05 pmurias unmatched}: it runs on my machine, I'll hopefully send PRs to remove koalitee and align the icons tommorow
16:05 dalek perl6-examples: f6cf069 | (Aaron Sherman)++ | categories/parsers/SimpleStrings.pm:
16:05 dalek perl6-examples: Added a simple quoted string parser
16:05 dalek perl6-examples:
16:05 dalek perl6-examples: (which I previously posted to reddit)
16:05 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/f6cf06935e
16:05 dalek perl6-examples: 5ba1010 | (Aaron Sherman)++ | / (2 files):
16:05 dalek perl6-examples: Moved tests out to t/...
16:05 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/5ba1010dc5
16:05 dalek perl6-examples: d6e83d6 | (Steve Mynott)++ | / (2 files):
16:05 dalek perl6-examples: Merge pull request #45 from ajs/master
16:05 dalek perl6-examples:
16:05 dalek perl6-examples: A quoted string parser example
16:05 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/d6e83d6db5
16:06 richi235 joined #perl6
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16:10 harmil_wk Are examples merges automated, or was that a human being being super-responsive?
16:10 timotimo human
16:10 AlexDaniel haha
16:10 * harmil_wk is impressed
16:11 dj_goku "human"
16:11 [Coke] docs folks ok with my 'xtest' fix?
16:12 unmatched} stmuk_++
16:15 dalek doc: 0c9f8ef | coke++ | Makefile:
16:15 dalek doc: run xt tests first
16:15 dalek doc:
16:15 dalek doc: If you're running xtest, you're more likely to find issues with the xt/
16:15 dalek doc: tests, run them first so you can abort the test run and fix them.
16:15 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0c9f8ef1b7
16:15 dalek doc: 0b7fb97 | coke++ | doc/ (3 files):
16:15 dalek doc: whitespace fixes
16:15 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0b7fb97516
16:16 bob777 joined #perl6
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16:20 AlexDaniel [Coke]: maybe! :)
16:23 travis-ci joined #perl6
16:23 travis-ci Doc build errored. Will "Coke" Coleda 'whitespace fixes'
16:23 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/151557167 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/f8691e9173e1...0b7fb9751684
16:23 travis-ci left #perl6
16:23 jdv79 I know very little about it but would it be possible to sub in a more erlang-ish async subsystem?
16:23 prammer joined #perl6
16:24 jdv79 i imagine it would involved a special scheduler and remote support and probably a few new/altered primitives
16:26 sena_kun m: fail; CATCH { default { say .WHAT } }; # How to generate Failure?
16:26 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«(AdHoc)␤»
16:26 hoelzro sena_kun: Failures in sink context throw their underlying exception
16:27 hoelzro m: my $f = fail 'fail!'; say $f.WHAT
16:27 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«fail!␤  in any  at /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
16:27 sena_kun hoelzro, yes, I already read that line, but. Ah, thanks!
16:27 * hoelzro .oO( does Failure.WHAT trigger the throw too? )
16:28 unmatched} m: fail.^name.say
16:28 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«Failed␤  in any  at /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
16:28 unmatched} bisect: m: fail.^name.say
16:28 bisectable unmatched}: Exit code is 1 on both starting points (good=2015.12 bad=ef04e1e), bisecting by using the output
16:28 bisectable unmatched}: bisect log: https://gist.github.com/ebbbd830e1c0d115a02310c4df94c746
16:28 bisectable unmatched}: 'bisect run' failure
16:28 sena_kun m: my $f = fail 'fail!';
16:28 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«fail!␤  in any  at /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
16:28 unmatched} m: sub f { fail }; f.^name.say
16:28 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«Failure␤»
16:29 unmatched} fail is like return innit? so it returns before you get to .WHAT so you need to return it from somewhere
16:29 hoelzro unmatched}: oh, good point, thanks!
16:29 * hoelzro just realized that bisectable is like https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bibisect
16:29 sena_kun m: sub f{ fail }; f.handled;
16:29 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: ( no output )
16:29 sena_kun m: sub f{ fail }; say f.handled;
16:29 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«False␤»
16:30 unmatched} m: sub f{ fail }; my $v = f; $v.handled.say; $v.Bool; $v.handled.say;
16:30 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
16:31 titsuki joined #perl6
16:31 sena_kun Great. Thanks!
16:33 TimToady joined #perl6
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16:45 titsuki m: for ^3 { .map(-> $e { say $e + 3 }) }; # map called in the sink context (Sorry it's just a experiment)
16:45 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: ( no output )
16:45 dogbert17 joined #perl6
16:46 titsuki m: for ^3 { 10; }; # check context (Sorry it's just a experiment)
16:46 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of constant integer 10 in sink context (line 1)␤»
16:47 mcmillhj joined #perl6
16:47 sena_kun m: (^3) .map({ say $_ + 3 });
16:47 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«3␤4␤5␤»
16:47 dogbert17 o/ #perl6
16:47 sena_kun dogbert17, \o
16:47 dogbert17 hi sena_kun
16:48 sena_kun Map is already cycle in some sense.
16:48 b2gills Seems to me that Perl 6 is 20 years too early
16:49 ARM9 or 15 years too late
16:49 dogbert17 The paragraph about 'Versioning_and_Authorship' is duplicated in https://docs.perl6.org/language/typesystem. Should I clean it up?
16:49 ARM9 what's the koalatee % thing on modules.perl6.org ?
16:50 bazzaar joined #perl6
16:50 sena_kun dogbert17, yeah, it will be good.
16:50 bazzaar \o perl6
16:50 dogbert17 sena_kun, fix is on its way :)
16:50 sena_kun dogbert17++
16:51 titsuki m: for ^3 { sink .map(-> $e { say $e + 3 }) }; # map called in the sink context (Sorry it's just a experiment)
16:51 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«3␤4␤5␤»
16:52 bazzaar Hi, re. earlier discussion on Perl6 introduction media content, I put down a few thoughts http://nopaste.linux-dev.org/?1119698
16:52 andrzejku hi
16:53 sena_kun titsuki, you can write messages to camelia in private, it'll answer you, if you want just osme local experiments.
16:53 titsuki sena_kun: I understand that, but I couldn't understand behavior of the map exactly.
16:53 dalek doc: ff87518 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Language/typesystem.pod6:
16:53 dalek doc: Removed duplicated paragraph about Versioning and Authorship
16:53 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ff87518be5
16:53 nicq20 joined #perl6
16:53 sena_kun titsuki, I'm not sure about the sinking now, but generally, map just applies function to every element of positional.
16:54 sena_kun afk&
16:54 j75 joined #perl6
16:57 unmatched} titsuki: note that that area currently has some bugs, so you might see some weirdness.
16:57 AlexDaniel hoelzro: “A bibisect can take as little as 15 minutes” 15 minutes? Why is it so long?
16:57 titsuki sena_kun: Sorry, I'll use the cameria's private message feature from now on.
16:57 unmatched} m: for ^3 { .map: *.say };
16:57 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: ( no output )
16:57 unmatched} m: for ^3 { ^3 .map: *.say };
16:57 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤0␤1␤2␤0␤1␤2␤»
16:58 hoelzro AlexDaniel: good question!
16:58 hoelzro maybe longer history? or maybe they build OO for each bibisect =P
16:58 gregf_ m: say (^3).map:{ ->$x { $x + 3 }.($_)}
16:58 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«(3 4 5)␤»
16:59 unmatched} m: say ^3 .map: *+3
16:59 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«(3 4 5)␤»
16:59 unmatched} Death to parenths!
16:59 gregf_ m: sub add($v){ $v+ 3; }; say (^3).map(&add)
16:59 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«(3 4 5)␤»
16:59 AlexDaniel MasterDuke: hey, what if we put all rakudo builds into one git repo?
17:00 AlexDaniel is it going to save some space? Is it going to be slower?
17:02 unmatched} m: my &add = * + 3; say ^3 .map: &add
17:02 camelia rakudo-moar ef04e1: OUTPUT«(3 4 5)␤»
17:02 unmatched} Death to parenths! :D
17:03 AlexDaniel unmatched}: by the way, the thing you tried to bisect there seems to be another effect of return-without-lexotic
17:03 AlexDaniel unmatched}: see also #128872
17:03 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=128872
17:04 unmatched} AlexDaniel: what thing?
17:04 dalek doc: 40edfc8 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Language/typesystem.pod6:
17:04 dalek doc: Revert "Removed duplicated paragraph about Versioning and Authorship"
17:04 dalek doc:
17:04 dalek doc: This reverts commit ff87518be5fe7bb9d1fe8adfe8dc0a40e3bc7c88.
17:04 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/40edfc8c7f
17:04 dalek doc: fd3b8c1 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Language/typesystem.pod6:
17:04 dalek doc: Fix typos
17:04 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fd3b8c1036
17:05 AlexDaniel bisect: fail.^name.say
17:05 bisectable AlexDaniel: Exit code is 1 on both starting points (good=2015.12 bad=ef04e1e), bisecting by using the output
17:05 bisectable AlexDaniel: bisect log: https://gist.github.com/97de31fc5372219ada5b8329cbbf5afc
17:05 bisectable AlexDaniel: 'bisect run' failure
17:05 AlexDaniel unmatched}: this one ↑
17:05 unmatched} That works correctly. I bisected it before I realized that it works correctly :)
17:05 AlexDaniel oh, hm
17:05 cdg joined #perl6
17:05 unmatched} unmatched} │ fail is like return innit? so it returns before you get to .WHAT so you need to return it from somewhere
17:06 AlexDaniel ok :)
17:12 brrt joined #perl6
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17:18 travis-ci joined #perl6
17:18 travis-ci Doc build passed. Jan-Olof Hendig 'Removed duplicated paragraph about Versioning and Authorship'
17:18 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/151567240 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/0b7fb9751684...ff87518be5fe
17:18 travis-ci left #perl6
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17:24 travis-ci joined #perl6
17:24 travis-ci Doc build passed. Jan-Olof Hendig 'Fix typos'
17:24 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/151570438 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/ff87518be5fe...fd3b8c103604
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17:34 harmil_wk Was github:perl6/rakudo a thing before a couple seconds ago? I fear I just did something I didn't mean to...
17:35 unmatched} hahaha
17:35 geekosaur says forked from rakudo/rakudo
17:35 geekosaur "whoops"
17:35 unmatched} harmil_wk: if you go to settings you can delete that fork
17:36 harmil_wk I just want to be REALLY sure that that's what I should be doing. Is there someone here who feels confident that that repo did not and should not exist?
17:36 unmatched} harmil_wk: yes, I'm confident.
17:36 harmil_wk k, thanks
17:37 harmil_wk Just re-stating because scary: perma deleting "perl6/rakudo"
17:38 geekosaur harmil_wk, you can tell stuff like this by looking through the metadata on the web interface
17:38 ovibos if you're *really* scared, you could make a local copy of perl6/rakudo
17:38 geekosaur which is how we can be sure it was not there to begin with (in any case you'd likely have gotten LOTS of conflicts if it had)
17:39 mcmillhj joined #perl6
17:39 ovibos is there a way to mattern-match assign from a hash?
17:40 harmil_wk Done
17:40 harmil_wk Sorry about that
17:40 ovibos like, my { status => $status, content => $content } = ...
17:40 mcmillhj joined #perl6
17:40 unmatched} ovibos: what would be on the right side?
17:40 ovibos well, in my case it's a function that returns a hash
17:41 ovibos something like { status => 'ok', content => 'content' } though
17:41 jnthn m: my %h = status => 'foo', content => 'bar'; my (:$status, :$content) := %h; say $status; say $content;
17:41 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤»
17:41 unmatched} m: my ($status, $content) = funct<status content>;
17:41 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    funct used at line 1␤␤»
17:41 ovibos oh, thanks
17:41 unmatched} jnthn++
17:42 jnthn Perl 6 destructuring in general using signatures syntax
17:42 jnthn *uses
17:44 aries_liuxueyang joined #perl6
17:44 [Coke] PERL SIX IS SELF DESTRUCTING!?
17:45 jnthn Oh man...this is just asking for...
17:46 jnthn m: class A { has $.x; has $.y; method m((:$x, :$y):) { say $x; say $y } }; A.new(x => 42, y => 100).m # PERL 6 IS self DESTRUCTURING!
17:46 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«42␤100␤»
17:47 unmatched} lol
17:47 AlexDaniel ????????
17:50 geekosaur is that better or worse than self distracting?
17:52 AlexDaniel m: sub term:<????????> { 42 xx (2 ** 62) }; say ‘Hello world!’; ????????
17:52 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)Hello world!␤»
17:53 sena_kun dogbert17, I'm a bit stupid here, but why did you revert your commit?
17:53 sena_kun Ah.
17:53 unmatched} m: "????".uninames.say
17:53 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«(<reserved>)␤»
17:53 sena_kun It was my mistake. Sorry for the wrong advice.
17:54 unmatched} m: say 42 xx (2 ** 62)
17:54 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
17:54 AlexDaniel unmatched}: there's a ticket for this segfault but I'm not sure if there is a ticket for Unicode 9.0 support
17:55 AlexDaniel #126014
17:55 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=126014
17:55 unmatched} m: say "????".ord.base: 16
17:55 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«1F98B␤»
17:56 unmatched} oh hey! that's my adopted character!
17:56 mcmillhj joined #perl6
18:00 Sgeo__ joined #perl6
18:00 AlexDaniel perl6 say (:<16>1F98C..:16<1F98F>)».chr
18:00 AlexDaniel m: say (:<16>1F98C..:16<1F98F>)».chr
18:00 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say (:<16>7⏏1F98C..:16<1F98F>)».chr␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤…»
18:00 AlexDaniel m: say (:16<1F98C>..:16<1F98F>)».chr
18:00 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«(???? ???? ???? ????)␤»
18:01 TimToady m: say "\x1f98c" ... "\x1f98f"
18:01 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«(???? ???? ???? ????)␤»
18:02 AlexDaniel right
18:03 TimToady after backlogging, I hope everyone is done being quite so lugubrious for another week or two...
18:04 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:05 * moritz has upcoming vacations, and is quite happy
18:06 unmatched} TimToady: why a week? :)
18:06 TimToady then I'll be on the road again, with an excuse for not backlogging :)
18:06 unmatched} heh
18:07 TimToady but I do think the pessimism was a bit overdone overnight
18:07 edwinsage Is there a convenient way to stop a line from running in interactive mode without killing the interpreter itself?
18:07 edwinsage ^C kills perl6.
18:08 [Coke] nope
18:08 TimToady we're aiming for a natural growth curve, neither too fast nor too slow, and so far this year I think we're pretty close to a decent growth curve
18:09 ovibos shouldn't ^D kill perl6?
18:09 TimToady sure, there's lotsa stuff left to do, and we knew this year would be bugfixes and speedups mostly
18:09 moritz edwinsage: you can catch SIGINT
18:09 [Coke] ovibos: not kill. tell it you're done
18:09 geekosaur edwinsage, the interactive mode is not very good at all currently
18:09 geekosaur it
18:09 [Coke] geekosaur: that's a lie.
18:09 ovibos i mean, yes, but the behavior is the same [Coke]
18:10 moritz edwinsage: https://docs.perl6.org/type/Supply#sub_signal
18:10 [Coke] no, ^D doesn't behave the same as ^C.
18:10 moritz not sure how well it works in the REPL
18:10 * nine can't get enough bugfixes and speedups
18:10 unmatched} TimToady: fair enough :)
18:10 edwinsage Ok, I'm just running stuff like "(1..*).eager" to fiddle around.
18:10 TimToady unmatched}: it wasn't just you :)
18:10 ovibos [Coke]: what's the difference?
18:11 geekosaur [Coke], we have problems ranging from this one to scoping problems with previously defined names. this is not what people expect of a decent REPL
18:11 * TimToady goes to look at the bug he promised two
18:11 perlpilot TimToady++  (for the optimism injection :)
18:11 unmatched} ovibos: ^D sends EOF. If you're not in the process of reading from a file, it won't care if you sent it and being in an infinite loop is one of those cases
18:13 ovibos oh, you're right
18:14 ovibos still, i think it would be saner if ^C behaved like it did in other REPLs
18:16 perlpilot ovibos: Which other REPLs?   Should it say "KeyboardInterrupt" like Python?  Should it do nothing like Ruby?  Or ... should it exit the REPL like lua?
18:17 ovibos perlpilot: it does nothing in ruby and zsh, it prints some sort of error and returns to prompt in python and racket
18:17 ovibos which were what i was basing my "other REPLs" on
18:18 ovibos i don't think one is better than the other, but, i think they're both better than exiting the REPL entirely
18:18 moritz exiting the REPL is exactly what I want
18:18 moritz ctrl+c = exit that program, unless you have a *very* good reason not to
18:18 unmatched} ^C -> abort the running line; ^C^C -> exit
18:19 ovibos i'm mostly used to ^C's behavior because of zsh/bash's handling of it (as that's the shell i'm in the most)
18:19 perlpilot unmatched}: that would work for me.
18:19 unmatched} (and so it'd naturally end up being the current ^C -> exit if no line is running)
18:21 lizmat fwiw, I think it should be pretty trivial to catch SIGINT in a signal handler, then die("SIGINTED") in there, and then let the CATCH handler cleanup
18:21 yoleaux 10 Aug 2016 22:24Z <japhb> lizmat: Thanks for merging (and fixing) the perl6-bench fix!
18:21 lizmat especially since the REPL is now mostly in Perl 6
18:21 lizmat afk&  # some celebrating
18:27 sjoshi joined #perl6
18:35 unmatched} Rakudo bugged as LHF: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128900
18:35 unmatched} (the ^C in REPL)
18:37 dbrock joined #perl6
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18:45 prammer joined #perl6
18:46 hoelzro I think we need support from the line editor for that
18:47 hoelzro possibly relevant: https://github.com/hoelzro/p6-linenoise/issues/12
19:03 dalek doc: c646e98 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
19:03 dalek doc: Added docs for Bool.pick
19:03 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c646e98b5c
19:03 z8 joined #perl6
19:05 arnsholt unmatched}: Yeah, that was me. Works fine on my machine, but I guess it'll depend on the details of the hardware and config we're running
19:16 dbrock left #perl6
19:32 zacts joined #perl6
19:41 grondilu just red the git log.  You guys.
19:41 grondilu "IterateOneNotSlippingWithoutPhasers"
19:41 grondilu ^srsly?
19:43 unmatched} grondilu: what about it?
19:44 unmatched} Saying "srsly" isn't overly helpful with the problem we're trying to solve :)
19:44 jdv79 thank god for autocomplete
19:44 unmatched} It's a private Rakudo-internal class.
19:45 gfldex move along! nothing to see here!
19:46 dalek doc: a57a821 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
19:46 dalek doc: Added docs for Bool.roll
19:46 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a57a82102a
19:48 pmurias joined #perl6
19:49 unmatched} m: my \term:<????✗⛸✗????> = Seq; say ????✗⛸✗????.new(1, 2, 3);
19:50 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 4␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
19:50 unmatched} m: my \term:<????✗⛸✗????> = Seq; say ????✗⛸✗????.new([1, 2, 3]);
19:50 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding to $iter; expected Iterator but got Array ($[1, 2, 3])␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
19:50 unmatched} grondilu: how about ????✗⛸✗???? ? :D
19:53 pmurias unmatched}: is it expected that some tests fail for modules.perl6.org?
19:54 [Coke] geekosaur: please make sure that there are tickets open for any outstanding issues.
19:54 [Coke] (danke)
20:03 TEttinger joined #perl6
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20:06 unmatched} pmurias, they were all passing when I was done with the rewrite last December, but I don't know if people added code without running the tests. I know the GitLab DistSource was added without tests covering. They may have also bit rotted due to major Mojolicious Donut release. Lastly, they do check for koality, so if you removed it without adjusting the tests, then they will fail
20:12 sno joined #perl6
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20:20 mcmillhj joined #perl6
20:27 dalek modules.perl6.org: c99d321 | (Pawel Murias)++ | Build.PL:
20:27 dalek modules.perl6.org: perl Build test now runs tests.
20:27 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/c99d321632
20:29 zakharyas joined #perl6
20:32 El_Che maybe a silly question. When using NativeCall, is it customary to write a Perl6 class wrapper to sanitize/convert the input/output to the NativeCall functions in the same distribution?
20:36 skids Personally I'd say yes, the only reason I'd split those up is if the bindings are very large and there may be more than one high level package using them.
20:38 harovali joined #perl6
20:38 skids Having the bindings in a separate compunit can be nice.  Though, the fact that CStruct reprs can directly have methods may be a good reason not to.
20:39 skids I don't think we've firmly established a "customary" though.
20:40 El_Che skids: thx
20:42 pmurias unmatched}: a lot of the failures seems to be bitrot in tests fetching metadata
20:43 labster joined #perl6
20:47 unmatched} pmurias: ok, I'll take a look as part of the Bit Rot issue fixing
20:50 n1lp7r joined #perl6
20:51 pmurias unmatched}: should I make a PR or will you revert if anything is too horrible?
20:55 mcmillhj joined #perl6
20:59 pmurias unmatched}: pushed my removal commits, when will modules.perl6.org be updated?
21:00 pmurias ahh, found it in the REAME
21:02 gfldex m: my $s = '1a 1b 1c'; my @a = <a b c>.any; say @a ~~ /<@a>/
21:02 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«This type (Junction) does not support positional operations␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
21:02 gfldex m: my $s = '1a 1b 1c'; my @a = <a b c>; say @a ~~ /<@a>/
21:02 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«「a」␤»
21:03 cpage__ joined #perl6
21:03 gfldex m: my $s = '1a 1b 1c'; my @a = <a b c>; say $s ~~ m:g/'1'<@a>/
21:03 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«(「1a」 「1b」 「1c」)␤»
21:04 mcmillhj joined #perl6
21:04 gfldex m: my $s = '1a 1b 1c'; my @a = <a b c>; say ($s ~~ m:g/'1'<@a>/).perl
21:04 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«(Match.new(ast => Any, list => (), hash => Map.new(()), orig => "1a 1b 1c", to => 2, from => 0), Match.new(ast => Any, list => (), hash => Map.new(()), orig => "1a 1b 1c", to => 5, from => 3), Match.new(ast => Any, list => (), hash => Map.new(()), orig => …»
21:05 mvorg joined #perl6
21:06 dalek ecosystem: 2372851 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
21:06 dalek ecosystem: s/META.info/META6.json/
21:06 dalek ecosystem:
21:06 dalek ecosystem: For List-Combinations and Text::Diff::Sift4
21:06 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/2372851f06
21:07 gfldex m: my $s = '1a 1b 1c 1d'; my @a = <a b c>; say $s ~~ m:g/'1'<@a>/
21:07 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«(「1a」 「1b」 「1c」)␤»
21:07 unmatched} pmurias: probably in an hour. Last job just finished ( http://modules.perl6.org/update.log ), next one will start at 5:20EST and will probably take like 40 minutes
21:07 gfldex m: my $s = '1a 1b 1c'; my @a = <a b c d>; say $s ~~ m:g/'1'<@a>/
21:07 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«(「1a」 「1b」 「1c」)␤»
21:08 gfldex is there an easy way to get the element of @a that didn't match?
21:08 unmatched} pmurias: I don't see you pushing anything tho
21:08 unmatched} other than 1 small change in Build.PL
21:11 * unmatched} for rest of the night
21:11 unmatched} I meant & :)
21:13 nbg joined #perl6
21:13 dalek modules.perl6.org: 8467077 | (Pawel Murias)++ | / (15 files):
21:13 dalek modules.perl6.org: Remove Koalatee.
21:13 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/8467077512
21:18 n1lp7r joined #perl6
21:23 LegalResale joined #perl6
21:43 cognominal joined #perl6
21:48 sena_kun m: my &a = {};
21:48 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to &a; expected Callable but got Hash (${})␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
21:48 sena_kun Does this syntax worked?
21:49 sena_kun Nevermind.
21:51 geekosaur m: my &a = {;}
21:51 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: ( no output )
21:51 geekosaur perl 5 has the same ambiguity of needing to figure out if {} is a hash(ref) or a block
21:52 sena_kun geekosaur, ah, neat.
21:55 rpburkholder joined #perl6
21:57 kid511 joined #perl6
21:59 gfldex is there a way to list methods that are :local and not mixedin by a role?
22:02 gfldex m: say Date.^methods(:local)[9].package ~~ Date
22:02 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«False␤»
22:02 gfldex :)
22:03 jnthn Not aware of a better way than filtering them by .package
22:04 gfldex m: NQPRoutine.^name
22:04 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared name:␤    NQPRoutine used at line 1␤␤»
22:05 n1lp7r joined #perl6
22:07 cpage_ joined #perl6
22:08 chris2 joined #perl6
22:10 gfldex m: say Cursor.^methods[11].package
22:10 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«Method 'package' not found for invocant of class 'NQPRoutine'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
22:10 gfldex jnthn: any way to do that for NQPRoutine (i am willing to descend into nqp)?
22:17 jdv79 anyone have any grammars working async?
22:17 jdv79 concurrently i guess is the actual aspect.
22:19 skids joined #perl6
22:24 dalek doc: e83de06 | Altai-man++ | doc/Type/ (9 files):
22:24 dalek doc: Make examples compile
22:24 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e83de06a45
22:28 jnthn gfldex: Umm...I don't *think* so, though in the Cursor case all of them are certainly from a role :)
22:28 cpage_ joined #perl6
22:28 jnthn jdv79: I'm pretty sure there's a spectest involving grammars being used from multiple threads.
22:29 jnthn Ran across it the other day while doing stability work.
22:29 cpage_ joined #perl6
22:29 jdv79 k
22:29 jnthn (Though it was actually another test in the file that was the problem child.)
22:29 jnthn I think there's an RT relating to grammars and concurrency recently filed.
22:30 jnthn And I know EVAL has trouble with reentrancy, which may or may not be grammar related.
22:30 jnthn Guess those'll be a day or so's debugging each...
22:30 * jnthn is fairly tired of the concurrency bugs spoiling our fun and is trying to hunt them down
22:31 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
22:31 jdv79 i'm still clueless as to how "Use of uninitialized value $!made" is happening
22:31 jnthn o.O
22:31 jdv79 probably beyond my pay grade
22:31 jnthn That sounds pretty wrong.
22:31 jnthn Do you have actions embedded in the grammar, or in a separate actions class?
22:31 jdv79 i'm poking at it though
22:33 jdv79 its seperate.  its the XML dist.
22:33 jnthn OK, that's one hypothesis down then :)
22:34 jdv79 the cross thread write log didn't seem to illumniate anything startling to me
22:34 jdv79 gonna try some other grammar using things
22:35 labster joined #perl6
22:35 * jnthn tries to figure out the order modules are listed in on http://modules.perl6.org/
22:36 timotimo it was alphabetically at one point
22:38 jdv79 oh, the grammar and conc rt is mine probably
22:40 cpage_ joined #perl6
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23:38 dalek doc: b6f82b6 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | util/list-missing-methods.p6:
23:38 dalek doc: add util/list-missing-methods.p6
23:38 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b6f82b6218
23:43 gfldex Hash append is missing what I found with ^^^
23:43 dalek modules.perl6.org: fd90ee5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | public/js/main.js:
23:43 dalek modules.perl6.org: Restore alphabetical module listing
23:43 dalek modules.perl6.org:
23:43 dalek modules.perl6.org: Fixes fallout from koality removal
23:43 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/fd90ee545f
23:46 sena_kun m: my %a = one => 1, two => 2; for %a.pairs -> ($a, $b) {};
23:46 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 0 in sub-signature␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
23:48 timotimo you get pair objects from .pairs
23:48 timotimo they do not
23:48 timotimo destructure into a list
23:48 timotimo m: my %a = one => 1, two => 2; for %a.pairs -> (:$key, :$value) { }
23:48 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: ( no output )
23:49 sena_kun Hmmm...
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: 469195d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | Build.PL:
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: List Data::UUID in prereqs
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot:
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: It's listed as prereq by Data::GUID, but for some reason did not get installed on a clean system, even though Data::GUID did install fine.
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/469195d768
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: 88742d4 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | Build.PL:
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: Add Time::Moment to prereqs
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/88742d4359
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: f6f8f50 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | Build.PL:
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: Add Imager::File::PNG to prereqs
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot:
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: It may have been a prereq on ::AssetPack at some point, but is no longer
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/f6f8f5095c
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: 8fe1075 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | README.md:
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: Mention Edge in browser support
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/8fe10750db
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: cd7572b | (Zoffix Znet)++ | README.md:
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: s/browers/browsers/
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/cd7572b696
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: c99d321 | (Pawel Murias)++ | Build.PL:
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: perl Build test now runs tests.
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/c99d321632
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: 8467077 | (Pawel Murias)++ | / (15 files):
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: Remove Koalatee.
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/8467077512
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: fd90ee5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | public/js/main.js:
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: Restore alphabetical module listing
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot:
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: Fixes fallout from koality removal
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/fd90ee545f
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: dbb8e76 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (18 files):
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: Merge branch 'master' into bit-rot
23:50 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/dbb8e769f8
23:50 sena_kun Oh wow.
23:50 sena_kun Thanks, timotimo.
23:50 pduh_ joined #perl6
23:51 * unmatched} gives dalek a sock
23:53 cpage_ joined #perl6
23:55 gfldex m: my %a = one => 1, two => 2; for %a.kv -> $a, $b { say $a, $b };
23:55 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«two2␤one1␤»
23:56 gfldex sena_kun: you may want .kv instead of .pairs
23:57 timotimo m: my %a = :1one, :2two; for %a -> (:$key, :$value) { say $value }
23:57 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«2␤1␤»
23:57 timotimo ^- iterating over the hash directly behaves just like iterating over .pairs
23:57 sena_kun gfldex, I want(or, rather, author of now broken example wanted .ks). Oh, without brackets it should do the right thing.
23:57 sena_kun *.kv
23:58 timotimo no, without brackets you get 2 pairs per iteration
23:58 timotimo m: my %a = :1one, :2two; for %a -> $a, $b { say "a: $a"; say "b: $b" }
23:58 camelia rakudo-moar c587b9: OUTPUT«a: two       2␤b: one        1␤»
23:58 sena_kun The original line is "for %intervals.pairs.sort(* cmp *) -> (Instant $instant, $note) { ... }".
23:59 timotimo isn't cmp the default for sort?
23:59 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: 80b12cc | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (2 files):
23:59 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: Fix Build.PL to make cpanm --installdeps -vn . work
23:59 dalek modules.perl6.org/bit-rot: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/80b12cc297
23:59 sena_kun It's an old example. (:

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