Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-08-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 vcv m: multi t{say "noargs"}; multi t(:$id){say "arg:$id"}; t;
00:02 camelia rakudo-moar fe90be: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value $id of type Any in string context.␤Methods .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can be used to stringify it to something meaningful.  in sub t at <tmp> line 1␤arg:␤»
00:05 timotimo named arguments are optional by default
00:05 timotimo you need to put an exclamation point after :$id to enforce its presence
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00:09 timotimo m: multi t{say "noargs"}; multi t(:$id!){say "arg:$id"}; t;
00:09 camelia rakudo-moar fe90be: OUTPUT«noargs␤»
00:15 vcv Ah right. thanks
00:15 vcv though i would have thought it would have called the first one since the signature matched both
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00:18 TimToady order only matters when testing constraints
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01:26 TimToady .oO(TRUMP-PENCE should add #FascistFool to that...)
01:28 TEttinger #ThinksIrcIsTwitter
01:28 TimToady apparently
01:29 timotimo if trump wins the election, i'm afraid i'll be sick
01:29 TimToady maybe it's a bot to figure out who to put up against the wall when the "second amendment people" march on Washington
01:29 timotimo though maybe there'll be enough iodine pills available by that time
01:30 timotimo on the other hand, iodine pills don't really make it all that much better, do they?
01:30 TEttinger Trumpquavex, from the makers of Vicodin. Are ordinary opioid painkillers not enough to take the pain away that Trump causes you?
01:31 TimToady it's already starting to sound like the guy is planning to lose the election and then call for armed revolution...
01:34 timotimo that would be ... quite something
01:34 timotimo i don't want to think about it
01:34 * timotimo heads towards bed
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01:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:13 konobi I haven't seen him in a long time, but does anyone know if Sean M. Burke still on IRC these days?
03:17 konobi TimToady: i have a bit of an abstract language question/idea that i'd wonder how it'd fit into perl6 smoothly
03:24 konobi namely, using perl6 strings (maybe with some sort of sigil) to indicate a multilingual string that should/may have maketext-style translation strings with the current string as it's key. then use a combination of the grammar engine and a list of .po files to show which keys have a translations available and which ones, so that translation can be done reactively
03:46 lucs konobi: He pops up every once in a while on irc.perl.org (as TorgoX).
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06:08 andrzejku hello :)
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06:35 gfldex I have decided to leave stackexchange for good and am in the process to have the content I provided there removed - a surprisingly time consuming task. If coverage of stackexchange is desired somebody else will have to take over.
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07:54 Ulti I just noticed this whilst answering...
07:55 Ulti any reason to delete your content?
07:55 gfldex i found that other users can edit my posts without my consent. Also I never really liked the whole gamification bullshit.
07:56 Ulti really? I wasnt aware of that, there is an edit history though
07:57 Ulti oh yeah I can edit them, but apparantly its in an edit queue that has to be approved
07:57 gfldex the whole platform seams to be attractive to folk with a mindset that is calles Blockwartmentalität in german. Fairly hard to translate but very repelling to me.
07:58 gfldex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockwart
07:58 Ulti I think we would just say fascist in English
07:59 gfldex not at all
07:59 gfldex it's more PC going wrong, helicoper parents, triggerwarning etc.
07:59 Ulti but still you aren't deleting your answers but instead editing them to mention you are quitting
08:00 gfldex i can't delete accepted answers, it simply wont let me
08:00 Ulti so now we have a "community" there which is quite often solo answers that just state you are leaving
08:00 gfldex and i can only edit 5 messaged per day
08:00 gfldex i agree that is ugly but my options are limited. I did try to get in contect with support, no reply yet.
08:02 gfldex also, if the "community" is mostly me answering questions, i would question that there is any community at all
08:02 Ulti sure I agree but I've answered a few solo too
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08:02 Ulti its more if someone gives a good answer there isnt much point following it up, since no one here is in the "game"
08:02 gfldex i would like to add that it's the same person and one of many forced edits by the same guy
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08:03 Ulti have you flagged up the user?
08:03 gfldex as I wrote earlier, if anyone believes it has value, pick up the torch
08:04 Ulti also what sorts of edits? just spelling or something more nefarious?
08:04 pmurias konobi: you want to use grammars to determine which translation string don't have a .po string for a given language?
08:04 gfldex way beyond spelling and frankly, I grow tired discussing it. I wanted to write a blog post for 3 days now.
08:06 gfldex but then the title is "Lazy all the way down" so that delay may actually quite fitting :)
08:08 Ulti well thanks for sharing the circumstance, I'm surprised there is no moderation for this sort of thing
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08:09 Ulti minimally you should be able to block a user from editing your content
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08:10 gfldex they can't do that without breaking the gamification-reward-carrot
08:10 gfldex you gain power by providing accepted answer
08:11 gfldex at some point you become rewarded with the ability to force your will on others and get even more carrots for doing so
08:11 Ulti gfldex one thing I can see your full answer history...
08:12 Ulti like if I just click on your history for a "I am leaving" I can just see your old answer anyway
08:14 gfldex indeed, I have very little power over my one unpayed for work
08:14 gfldex hance the quitting
08:15 gfldex there is no easy way out and I believe that to be intentional
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08:16 cygx gfldex: note that when you joined stackexchange, you agreed to license your content under creative commone attribution share-alike
08:16 cygx they are fully within their rights to restore anything you deleted
08:16 Ulti gfldex: are you talking about "Christopher Bottoms" which is the only editor I can see?
08:17 pmurias gfldex: by stackexchange you are referring to stackoverflow?
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08:19 cygx arguably, removing your content is something of a dick move - wou don't remve your content from Wikipedia when you stop contributing
08:19 cygx just delete the user so it's no longer associated with you
08:19 gfldex stackexchange is one of the many "communities" under the privately held stackoverflow umrella
08:20 geekosaur other way around
08:20 geekosaur stackoverflow is one of many stackexchange sites
08:20 Ulti gfldex: all I can see is that guy corrected your grammar and added `` for code words in your text, I would be glad if someone did that. I usually have four edits of my answers where I worry about grammar
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08:21 gfldex cygx: i that case i am happily guilty of a dick move. They could have told me in nice friendly letters when I signed up. Sadly they choose to hide that information under a mountain of ToS.
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08:22 gfldex Util: you see less then I see then. That again is likely intentional. Maybe if you gained more carrots you can see all of it.
08:23 Ulti well its more I gave up after the first two edits I found
08:24 gfldex cygx: also, since I am not paid for my work I feel strangely entitled to that dick move.
08:27 cygx gfldex: I think of it more or less the same way I think of contributing to WIkipedia or an open source project
08:27 cygx the content is no longer yours exclusively
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08:31 Ulti gfldex my attitude towards that end is usually tempered by I feel the people who asked a question and used your answer are now entitled to that content too you wouldnt go back and wipe someones mind of a conversation you had just because you didn't want them to have it anymore
08:31 pmurias just quiting seems saner then waging an edit war with people driven by brownie points
08:31 gfldex cygx: then our opinion differ. I believe the perspective of making someone quit by pissing that person of should come with consequences, that go beyond seeing somebodies back. Power should be balanced and have consequences.
08:32 Ulti that you arent actually removing the content but making it hard to read and replacing it with a message about you leaving is also extra drastic, which I agree is a failing of Stack Overflow
08:32 gfldex pmurias: are you suggesting that I am insane?
08:33 gfldex actually, I believe it is better I part this channel for a while. I wanted to get stuff done.
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08:35 Ulti :(
08:35 Ulti I am kind of amazed you cant just delete your account
08:36 cygx Ulti: it's like Wikipedia - the user can go, the content stays - though I do no longer see the delete button in my profile where it used to be...
08:37 Ulti well I'm in a stay at home mood I might go through and try and independently answer everything gfldex solo answered :[
08:38 Ulti is it possible to block people so you dont see the answers? that way I can properly claim I'm not just reverting gfldex's content
08:39 cygx apparently, you need to go through the contact support page to get an account deleted
08:39 Ulti I respect his right to not have his stuff on there regardless of ToS you can't actually give up copyright in the UK its an intrinsic right... despite what anyone tells you
08:39 cygx Ulti: but he has granted a usage license, and he's trying to revoke that
08:40 Ulti sure but in the UK he would have the legal right to do so
08:40 Ulti its not possible for a third party to remove that right from someone
08:41 Ulti but yeah digital content doesnt really work like a piece of writing on paper :/
08:41 cygx Ulti: but a licensee is within his rights to sue you if you just go back on a license agreement
08:41 cygx what woud have to be argued is that the agreement is void because the the terms where not clear
08:42 Ulti you could probably even argue it was rendered to HTML on another server and so is a different work
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08:42 Ulti cygx they could try but I'd hope a court would be more on the side of gfldex
08:43 Ulti he hadnt consciously agreed to a system where others could edit his stuff
08:44 Ulti not that I agree with defacing your existing content :S
08:46 Ulti :( gfldex nearly always had the best answer but others have mostly put something up too
08:48 cygx Ulti: it's not exactly prominently advertized that others can edit your posts, but it's not exactly hidden either
08:48 cygx When should I edit posts? - Any time you feel you can make the post better, and are inclined to do so. Editing is encouraged!
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08:51 Ulti I have to say on the concept of editing peoples content I'm more on the shock side with gfldex, Wikipedia does not directly attribute content to you directly
08:52 Ulti someone could completely change my comment and my name would still be on it
08:52 Ulti thats open to defaming soemone
08:53 Ulti though you are rate limited on the edits so its not like you could systematically alter someones voice
08:54 cygx Ulti: you need to have aquired enough karma to be able to edit posts without someone else approving it
08:54 cygx if you abuse that power, you risk being banned and losing your karma
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08:54 cygx as far as I know, it works reasonably well
08:56 Ulti sure I dont really have much of a problem with it
08:56 Ulti but it does sound like there isn't much of a mechanism to prevent bad things either if you are one of the lower level users
08:56 Ulti Wikipedia was incredibly infuriating at times
08:57 Ulti I stopped editing after a while just because it got so annoying
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09:01 pmurias the way people can manipulate the content on wikipedia behing the scenes by using a complex system of internal rules sucks
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11:01 gfldex lolibloggedalittle https://gfldex.wordpress.com/2016/08/14/its-lazy-all-the-way-down/
11:01 gfldex and i can remove the post whenever I like \o/
11:01 gfldex i better make a backup …
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11:13 AlexDaniel gfldex: sooo… how to delete all of your stackoverflow answers?
11:13 AlexDaniel did you figure out? :)
11:14 gfldex not yet, no reply from support
11:15 gfldex given that they earn money via ads one might think they got the money to pay someone to answer support calls. But I doubt they pay enough to convince anyone to work on sundays.
11:16 AlexDaniel or maybe just renaming your account to “IamNotUsingStackoverflowAnymore” should work?
11:19 gfldex as I understand it you can have your account deleted, what will remove your name from the work you did. The work however will stay.
11:20 AlexDaniel my score doubled since I stopped writing any answers, but it will take another year or two at such pace (or maybe more?) till I get access to moderator tools, but I don't think that this will help me in any way…
11:22 AlexDaniel well it kinda makes sense that the answers are going to stay, given that you kinda contributed it under CC-SA license
11:23 gfldex i wonder if they can show me my signature under that contract
11:31 smls Ulti: re "someone could completely change my comment and my name would still be on it": It shows that it was edited, and by whom, right next to your name.
11:31 AlexDaniel not sure if that's a good question. I think that the best solution is to write a nice well-thought-out blog post post on why you hate stackoverflow and why everyone should stop using it. At least, that's what I did…
11:32 smls Ulti: Also, the idea of SO is that answers are not someone's "comment", but rather form a collaborative database, kinda like a wiki.
11:32 gfldex i do not believe one bit that everyone should stop using it. If one is fine with surrendering freedom for the common good, I'm not going to disagree. I am just sad that they didn't tell that I have to do that _before_ I signed up.
11:34 smls Ulti: Only the little comment section below answers, functions like a forum where each comment is considered a message by its auther. Not the answres themselves.
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11:35 AlexDaniel what kind of freedom? You want to delete your contributions? But… did anybody tell you that it wont be possible to delete your awesome contributions to perl 6 documentation? ;)
11:39 cygx well, the terms of servives explain that your contributions will be released under cc by-sa, the tour mentions that "As you earn reputation, you'll unlock new privileges like the ability to vote, comment, and even edit other people's posts.", but if you want detail, you do need to navigate to http://stackoverflow.com/help/editing
11:40 cygx perhaps that link should be mentioned at signup
11:41 gfldex in the case of the docs I did make my homework and informed myself what license I license my work with to the general public. Yet I reserve the freedom express my _wish_ to remove my contributions in the future, fully aware of the fact that I have no right to demand a wish to be fulfilled.
11:44 gfldex I found that if there is good reason to be polite, you get more politeness. :)
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11:45 AlexDaniel gfldex: but isn't it correct to say that it's your fault that you did not inform yourself?
11:47 Ulti smls that SO want it to be that way *and* also rely on direct attribution is kind of the problem you can't have both... imagine Wikipedia if every edit diff had the users name next to it
11:47 gfldex one could make that argument. But then one could make the argument that a body that calls itself a "community" should respect the wishes of members of that "community" esp. if they want to take their ball and go home. If they refuse to respect that wish one could call them a "cult".
11:49 Ulti the editing at a minimum should be controlled by the OP having someone be able to edit over you without permission is kind of weird... you could always make it so that you can trust a given user so they can do what they like
11:49 cygx Ulti: any user that gains 2000 reputation is autumatically trusted
11:51 Ulti right but you can have 2000 reputation without any respect or reputation from the person or even sub community you are editing in
11:51 smls Ulti: Wikipedia does list the user names next to all diffs in the "View history" tab.
11:51 Ulti sure but not on the actual article people are reading
11:52 Ulti how often (if ever) do you check the history of an SO answer?
11:52 AlexDaniel Ulti: you only get 100 rep points on other SE websites though
11:52 Ulti the vast majority of people dont even realise it's there on wikipedia
11:52 Ulti AlexDaniel SO only I mean
11:53 Ulti so someone with 2k reputation answering python questions should be trusted for perl answers?
11:53 AlexDaniel Ulti: haha, that's a good point
11:53 Ulti I'm not saying any of it is bad, just the implementation feels a little off
11:53 AlexDaniel Ulti: see this https://files.progarm.org/2014-11-16-181838_757x724_scrot.png
11:53 smls Ulti: Yeah, attribution is displayed less *prominently* on Wikipedia, but that's a difference of degree, not a fundamental one.
11:53 Ulti like its open to some abuse that could easily be avoided
11:53 Ulti the edit rate limiting is what they chose
11:53 AlexDaniel Ulti: that's a message I got from some guy having a lot of answers about powershell
11:55 Ulti yeah that sort of response AlexDaniel is messed up
11:55 Ulti why would anyone give a crap about the gamification side of SO??
11:55 Ulti do you get cash at some level -____- have I been doing this wrong
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11:57 AlexDaniel I kinda like that the attribution is less prominent on Wikipedia. This way there's no gamification at all. Well, almost
11:58 AlexDaniel Ulti: well, you don't get cash, no. But some say that it may play a role when you apply for a new job
11:59 Ulti not in any role I have ever come across
11:59 Ulti I would never think to check someones SO account, perhaps their GitHub
11:59 Ulti plus what would it indicate, you are good in a user support role?
12:00 cygx note that stackoverflow provides its own 'jobs' portal
12:00 Ulti yeah I guess I dont shop for pure software jobs
12:00 AlexDaniel Ulti: some might argue that it means that you know shit, which is probably a fair assumption
12:01 Ulti my citation record of actual published papers tends to be more important than stack overflow karma... but is essentially the exact same metric
12:04 AlexDaniel By the way… Anybody please feel free to edit any of my GitHub comments. I don't mind at all.
12:04 Ulti yeah I dont mind edits on anything despite all this chat :3
12:04 Ulti I assume anything I put on the net is fair game
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12:10 gfldex i would like to point out that wikipedia is maintained by donations. Stackoverflow is maintained by a privately owned company via selling ads. If I would have scrolled all the way down I could have read that information in a line of text that is 1.8mm small on my screen. If I would have done so I would have known what to expect. My own bloody fault, right?
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12:14 troyT` hi
12:15 AlexDaniel troyT`: hello
12:15 troyT` I was wondering if anybody else has trouble installing rakudo
12:15 troyT` I tried to do it but it doesn't work
12:15 gfldex that happens at times. can you provide more infomration of your troubles?
12:15 troyT` I followed the guide on http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/#Installing-Rakudo-Star-Source-Rakudobrew
12:16 troyT` I am using Ubuntu 16.04
12:16 troyT` I could build moar
12:16 troyT` and I can run basic perl6
12:17 troyT` but I can't get panda to work
12:17 gfldex please try `rakudobrew build zef`
12:17 AlexDaniel troyT`: what abou 「rakudobrew build panda」 ?
12:17 AlexDaniel or that, yes
12:18 gfldex zef will likely replace panda in the next release
12:18 troyT` oh, I see
12:18 troyT` I am not really up to date on these things
12:18 troyT` so panda indicated that it is installing File::Find
12:18 troyT` but nothing else then
12:19 troyT` only the 'please make sure' stuff
12:19 troyT` and I don't have panda in the indicated location
12:19 troyT` whre can I read about zef?
12:19 gfldex https://github.com/ugexe/zef
12:20 troyT` thanks
12:21 AlexDaniel gfldex: well, when I was joining stackoverflow I was aware of all that stuff, but at the time I did not realize that it is not something I want to be part of. And I'm not sure what is worse, that or not knowing something… it feels bad anyway :)
12:22 troyT` I tried zef but it errors out :-/
12:24 AlexDaniel troyT`: can you upload the log somewhere so that we can take a look?
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12:27 gfldex troyT`: did you install rakudo before?
12:28 troyT` no, I haven't
12:28 troyT` this is a relatively new install
12:28 troyT` I uploaded the log pastebin
12:28 troyT` http://pastebin.com/F5B1Bmdg
12:28 gfldex i'm going to check in a clean VM if it builds for me
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12:31 grondilu m: say cos(pi/2);
12:31 camelia rakudo-moar fe90be: OUTPUT«6.12323399573677e-17␤»
12:32 troyT` I'll try a clean vm too
12:32 troyT` with Ubuntu 16.04
12:34 grondilu m: role HalfPi {}; multi infix:<*>(pi, 2) { pi/2 but HalfPi }; multi cos(HalfPi $) { 0 }; say cos(pi/2)
12:34 camelia rakudo-moar fe90be: OUTPUT«6.12323399573677e-17␤»
12:34 grondilu meh, nevermind
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12:42 grondilu sometimes I wish P6 would do some accurate calculations until I realize I'm basically asking for symbolic computations, which is way too much asking.
12:42 grondilu like having cos(pi/2) return exactly 0.
12:44 AlexDaniel grondilu: https://github.com/raydiak/Math-Symbolic ?
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12:48 grondilu oh yeah, forgot about this module.
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13:00 gfldex troyT`: installing rakudo and zef works, installing Task::Star doesn't
13:01 troyT` thanks for taking a look
13:01 troyT` I am building moar in my vm right now
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13:02 gfldex ===SORRY!===
13:02 gfldex Failure fetching to: False
13:03 gfldex i'm not sure if zef should mimic rakudo in that case
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13:09 dalek whateverable: 70e6fd3 | (Daniel Green)++ | Benchable.p6:
13:09 dalek whateverable: Allow (and require) you to specify a commit when comparing code snippets
13:09 dalek whateverable: review: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/commit/70e6fd3778
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13:21 troyT` gfldex: I could install zef in my vm too, Task::Star is ongoing
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13:25 dogbert17 good afternoon #perl6
13:26 dogbert17 would you say that https://gist.github.com/dogbert17/c981bf86c279da465ffeb885fe1febf0 gives a truthful description of Bool.gist?
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13:30 Zoffix IMO Mu.gist already gives a fine description.
13:30 Zoffix m: say 42, Str
13:30 camelia rakudo-moar fe90be: OUTPUT«42(Str)␤»
13:31 Zoffix m: say "foo", Int
13:31 camelia rakudo-moar fe90be: OUTPUT«foo(Int)␤»
13:31 gfldex ugexe: installing panda in a clean VM fails right now. The culprit seams to be Zef::Client!config<TempDir> .
13:31 Zoffix It's doing that for all the types and documenting the same thing for all the types is adding extra maintenance baggage for little benefit IMO
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13:32 dogbert17 Zoffix: ok, I can try some other method instead, thx for the feedback
13:37 dalek whateverable: 736e043 | (Daniel Green)++ | Benchable.p6:
13:37 dalek whateverable: Remove debugging line left in accidentally
13:37 dalek whateverable: review: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/commit/736e04331e
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13:38 dogbert17 interesting, searching for Numeric on docs.perl6.org and selecting Routine Numeric takes you to method 'log' in role Numeric
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13:41 Zoffix Someone's asking for help with identifying symlinks and what they point to, if anyone knows: https://www.reddit.com/r/perl6/comments/4xnrn4/dealing_with_symbolic_links/
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13:46 lizmat I think we need to point to "IO::Path.resolve"
13:46 dogbert17 indeed
13:46 dogbert17 and this perhaps: https://docs.perl6.org/type/IO$COLON$COLONPath#File_test_operators
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13:47 smls lizmat: .resolve doesn't work with broken symlinks though
13:48 smls the handling of broken symlinks in Perl 6 is kinda broken, as that reddit user already discovered
13:48 * lizmat refrains from comments again
13:49 smls Did I say something wrong?
13:49 lizmat smls: no, this just touched on a sore spot with me
13:49 lizmat smls: nothing you said or done  :-)
13:49 smls ok
13:49 smls Is it because this is the kind of stuff that your newio branch fixed, which wasn't merged because the Perl 6.c release was kinda rushed?
13:50 lizmat well, my feeling is that it was more that nobody was interested at the time
13:50 lizmat especially on the @LARRY front  :-(
13:51 lizmat so the branch got bitrotted in the GLR and other refactors
13:51 lizmat and by that time the -Ofun factor had gone below zero for me
13:51 geekosaur trainwreck :(
13:51 smls :(
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13:53 MasterDuke speaking of @LARRY and IO::Path.resolve, my old PR https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/775 has the "pending user" tag, but i think it's really waiting on an @LARRY decision
13:54 MasterDuke should that be added to RT #128214, or does it not need that level of decision?
13:54 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=128214
13:54 lizmat please add :-)
13:56 MasterDuke i can't edit tickets, would someone else mind doing so? TIA
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13:56 lizmat smls dogbert17 Zoffix anyway, to get back to the original issue: I guess for now "use MONKEY-GUTS; nqp::readlink" is the short-term answer
13:57 lizmat $ ln -s dringobat zippo
13:57 Zoffix MasterDuke, added @LARRY tag
13:57 lizmat $ 6 'use nqp; say nqp::readlink("zippo")'
13:57 lizmat dringobat
13:58 Zoffix lizmat++ thanks. Forwarded to reddit
13:59 MasterDuke Zoffix: TATF (thanks after the fact. don't think that's a real thing though)
13:59 Zoffix MasterDuke, what's not a real thing?
14:00 mst lizmat: there was a fair amount of carnage in the lead up to the release, and it sucked for various people, but ... managing to get to release I think in the long run will've been worth it
14:00 MasterDuke oh, i'm just making up acronyms
14:00 dogbert17 m: say True.Numeric # would it be correct to say that the '1' is the ordinal value of True in the enum?
14:00 camelia rakudo-moar 191dc0: OUTPUT«1␤»
14:00 mst lizmat: there should clearly have been more hugs for the people affected though :)
14:00 lizmat mst: not disagreeing there
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14:00 Zoffix MasterDuke, @LARRY tag is for tickets needing the decision by core team members. I thought that was the change that should've been made to the ticket? Was there a different change you needed?
14:00 lizmat it's still just a sore spot with me
14:01 MasterDuke Zoffix: nope, that's exactly what was needed
14:01 Zoffix \o/
14:01 lizmat mst: and after having hit the concrete at 25km/hour yesterday while cycling, I should be less sensitive to just yet another sore spot  :-)
14:01 mst *grins*
14:02 mst lizmat: right, but I can think it was probably necessary *and* still be sympathetic :)
14:02 lizmat .oO( needs to get use to the touchpad not working when you have a bandaid on it )
14:02 lizmat *used
14:02 lizmat :-)
14:03 AlexDaniel mst: perhaps you can delete some spam in p5 queue? It was there for 7 hours :)
14:03 AlexDaniel seems like in perl 5 queue I can only mark it, but it does not get deleted right away
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14:04 mst AlexDaniel: I don't have rights to do that
14:04 AlexDaniel oh
14:04 AlexDaniel nevermind then…
14:05 mst I'm not actually in charge of that many things, I'm just very good at figuring out who is and asking them nicely ;)
14:05 AlexDaniel mst: ok, understood
14:05 mst if you mention it in #p5p on irc.perl.org somebody'll probably nuke it
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14:18 dogbert17 lizmat: btw, thanks for working on working on comb during the week
14:19 lizmat was the effect noticeable ?
14:19 dogbert17 a little, a few percent
14:20 lizmat cool  :-)
14:20 dogbert17 indeed :)
14:20 dogbert17 what's your next target?
14:20 lizmat Sets
14:21 lizmat I have about 8 other points of interest, but they are all blocked because of reasons I do not yet understand
14:21 lizmat sometimes it's just a single spectest failing, but if I don't understand why it's failing
14:21 lizmat I'm not going to push
14:21 lizmat instead I wait for inspiration  :-)
14:21 dogbert17 :-)
14:23 AlexDaniel lizmat++
14:24 dogbert17 indeed lizmat++
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14:26 dalek doc: 18d98d6 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Bool.pod6:
14:26 dalek doc: Added docs for Bool.Numeric
14:26 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/18d98d6a02
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15:17 ugexe gfldex: can you send me the output using `ZEF_PLUGIN_DEBUG=1 zef --debug install ...` ? It could be TempDir, but that error also happens when Proc.run doesn't work right with the order a command populates out vs err
15:18 gfldex it's Task::Star
15:18 gfldex gonna take a while
15:18 ugexe oh. during panda of Task::Star?
15:18 gfldex i used zef
15:19 gfldex err, not sure
15:19 ugexe right, but what did Task::Star fail on
15:20 ugexe im trying it myself btw. Task::Star has caused problems before, but usually due to Build.pm + precomp issues
15:21 crucialrhyme joined #perl6
15:22 * ugexe needs to propagate real error messages past the service locator layer
15:30 ugexe Task::Star installed for me. So it must indeed be permissions related with TempDir, or Proc.run not liking your OS curl/wget/git/whatever
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16:08 crucialrhyme when installing Task::Star i get lots of "can't continue" when installing DBIish i assume because i don't have these various dbs installed on my system. is this going to cause problems for me down the line?
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16:15 tailgate what resources are there on perl6 lazy lists? Like a really detailed article or documetation
16:21 andrzejku tailgate, when I learn perl6 I look at the documentation
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16:32 ugexe m: my $a = map { .say }, (^100); $a[3]; # lazy lists in a nutshell
16:32 camelia rakudo-moar 9a495d: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤»
16:34 AlexDaniel gfldex: well, that was expected
16:37 gfldex ugexe: looks like it worked now. Could that error be caused by a githup timeout?
16:40 gfldex m: my @a = gather { say 1; take 1; say 2; take 2; say 3; take 3 };
16:40 camelia rakudo-moar 9a495d: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
16:40 ugexe gfldex: yeah, any non-zero exitcode for git/wget/curl/etc would do it
16:40 gfldex the first example on https://docs.perl6.org/syntax/gather%20take is wrong
16:42 dalek doc: c577eff | gfldex++ | doc/Language/control.pod6:
16:42 dalek doc: fix example
16:42 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c577eff96a
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16:47 gfldex tailgate: there are no detailed docs beside https://docs.perl6.org/syntax/gather%20take and https://docs.perl6.org/language/operators#index-entry-lazy_list_%E2%80%A6
16:49 gfldex lazy lists are a concept in CS and the docs are not a CS course
16:49 gfldex and I am not quilified to provide a CS course as my blogpost clearly shows :->
16:50 gfldex it provoced a good question tho, showing another hole in the docs
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17:11 dalek doc: 0abb24a | gfldex++ | doc/Language/control.pod6:
17:11 dalek doc: correct statement about lazyment
17:11 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0abb24a96c
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17:14 TimToady er, "Binding to a scalar or sigilless container will also force binding." ?
17:14 TimToady s/binding/laziness/?
17:15 gfldex yes
17:16 dalek doc: 61d6d56 | gfldex++ | doc/Language/control.pod6:
17:16 dalek doc: fix braino
17:16 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/61d6d56cfc
17:16 gfldex i should stop thinking for the day. It's just not working right now.
17:19 gfldex tailgate: the docs where wrong and should be corrected in 10min or so
17:23 andrzejku hi friends
17:24 heatsink hello
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17:25 timotimo gfldex: i'm confused by this post you wrote: http://stackoverflow.com/a/38771235/804005
17:25 timotimo oh, it's just because of the missing comma
17:26 gfldex timotimo: i am really sorry but i wont deal with stackoverflow anymore
17:26 timotimo m: say :test "a, b, c"
17:26 camelia rakudo-moar 8e5f5e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say :test7⏏5 "a, b, c"␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier…»
17:26 timotimo right
17:27 gfldex i am sure you will find somebody who is more then happy to edit any of my posts there
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17:28 timotimo anything in particular that ticked you off about SO?
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17:31 gfldex could you backlog please?  (starting at 06:35)
17:41 timotimo sure
17:49 masak TimToady: also, `is parsed` regexes *definitely* need some way to call into Perl 6 grammar rules
18:02 masak m: m: class A::B {}; class C { has A::B $.ab .= new }
18:02 camelia rakudo-moar 8e5f5e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not locate compile-time value for symbol A::B␤»
18:02 masak m: class A::B {}; class C { has A::B $.ab .= new }
18:02 camelia rakudo-moar 8e5f5e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not locate compile-time value for symbol A::B␤»
18:02 masak RT #126975
18:02 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=126975
18:06 sena_kun m: sprintf "%ld", 3;
18:06 camelia rakudo-moar 8e5f5e: OUTPUT«Directive ld is not valid in sprintf format sequence %ld␤  in any  at /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm line 1␤  in any panic at /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm line 1␤  in any statement a…»
18:06 sena_kun Our sprintf format changed recently?
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18:45 BenGoldberg m: sprintf '%d', 3;
18:45 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: ( no output )
18:46 BenGoldberg m: say sprintf '%d', 3;
18:46 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«3␤»
18:46 BenGoldberg sena_kun, what do you expect 'l' to do?
18:46 sena_kun BenGoldberg, according to docs, it should give me long long type.
18:47 sena_kun https://docs.perl6.org/type/Str.html#sub_sprintf
18:48 sena_kun 'interpret integer as native "long"'. But %lld doesn't work too.
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18:54 masak sena_kun: do you know that it ever worked?
18:54 masak (bisectable to the rescue!)
18:54 masak bisectable: sprintf "%ld", 3
18:54 bisectable masak: Exit code is 1 on both starting points (good=2015.12 bad=9a495d4), bisecting by using the output
18:54 bisectable masak: bisect log: https://gist.github.com/9ea9cc8a8b2bdeeaf90db5df0167d177
18:54 bisectable masak: (2016-03-16) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ad19288
18:55 masak seems not.
18:55 sena_kun masak, nope. In fact, it's not "my" question, I just do testing work of the documentation, so I check every occurence of examples that are broken.
18:56 masak sweet.
18:56 sena_kun Okay, new issue is coming...
19:00 * BenGoldberg suspects someone copy-pasted from the C man page for sprintf or somesuch.
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19:08 BenGoldberg m: "bbBB".subst(/[bB]/, *.Str.succ).say;
19:08 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«bbCB␤»
19:08 BenGoldberg m: "bbBB".subst(/b|B/, *.Str.succ).say;
19:08 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«cbBB␤»
19:08 BenGoldberg m: "bbBB".subst(/b|B/, *.Str.succ, :g).say;
19:08 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«ccCC␤»
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19:19 sena_kun ping moritz
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19:24 dalek doc: edbad25 | Altai-man++ | doc/Type/ (7 files):
19:24 dalek doc: Make examples compile
19:24 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/edbad254e0
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19:29 BenGoldberg m: sub foo { unit gather; take 1; take 2 }; say foo();
19:29 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed unit (did you mean to declare a sigilless \gather or $gather?)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub foo { unit gather7⏏5; take 1; take 2 }; say foo();␤»
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19:39 dalek doc: 3029fc1 | Altai-man++ | doc/Type/ (6 files):
19:39 dalek doc: Last "Usage" sections were re-formatted, two examples for Label were added
19:39 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3029fc1075
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20:04 moritz sena_kun: pong
20:04 yoleaux 13 Aug 2016 21:23Z <MasterDuke> moritz: i'm trying to use SVG::Plot, but even the example doesn't produce an SVG with data, just the header with the width and height set. i see a merged PR that looked like it was for the same issue, but i'm still seeing it
20:05 moritz .tell MasterDuke please open an issue for your SVG::Plot problems; otherwise I'M afraid I'll forget
20:05 yoleaux moritz: I'll pass your message to MasterDuke.
20:06 * moritz and family were in Legoland (in Denmark) today
20:06 moritz and the hostel has good and free wifi \o/
20:06 sena_kun moritz, hi. Please, look at https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/216 (no problem solving, just a confirmation).
20:07 sena_kun I'm sorry I ping-pong you on weekend. (:
20:07 moritz sena_kun: can be closed now
20:07 sena_kun moritz, thanks.
20:08 moritz sena_kun: no problem; the worst thing you'll get is no response :-)
20:08 moritz I'll probably not be online the next 7 or 8 days
20:11 sena_kun Oh, it was a lucky time for me to ping you, haha. The issue is closed and I doubt possibility of mine distracting you again soon.
20:12 masak pro tip: searching perldoc for "negative lookbehind" is usually a code smell
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20:14 moritz searching perldoc (p5) for "negative lookbehind" usually leaves you baffled by the limitation it imposes
20:14 moritz and then you think: well, with *those* limitations, a different solution is likely easier
20:17 timotimo moritz: have a good off-line time :)
20:23 tailgate If I have an array of arrays, and I want to check if any of them are empty, how should I do that. Right now I'm doing
20:23 tailgate (@elements ==> {?@_ } ==> [&&])
20:23 tailgate there should be a map in front of ?@_
20:27 sena_kun m: my @a = [["a"], ["b"], []]; say so @a; @a = [["a"], ["b"], ["d"]]; say so @a;
20:27 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«True␤True␤»
20:27 timotimo m: my @aoa = (1, 2, 3), (9, 9), (), (1, 2), (9, 9); say any(@aoa) == 0
20:27 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«any(False, False, True, False, False)␤»
20:27 timotimo m: my @aoa = (1, 2, 3), (9, 9), (), (1, 2), (9, 9); say so any(@aoa) == 0
20:27 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«True␤»
20:27 sena_kun m: my @a = [["a"], ["b"], []]; say so @a.all; @a = [["a"], ["b"], ["d"]]; say so @a;
20:27 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
20:27 tailgate thanks
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20:28 sena_kun m: my @a = [["a"], ["b"], []]; say so @a.all; @a = [["a"], ["b"], ["d"]]; say so @a.all;
20:28 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
20:28 sena_kun The second is correct, I hope.
20:34 BenGoldberg Is anyone here decent at reading python code?  I'm trying to convert some python into perl6, and I'm not getting the results I want...
20:34 BenGoldberg Here's what I've got so far:
20:34 BenGoldberg m: https://gist.github.com/BenGoldberg1/56d3ed91959c34430dd9c763b653162f
20:34 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«187 isn't prime!␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 49␤␤»
20:34 BenGoldberg The original python code is at http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Eratosthenes#Fast_infinite_generator_using_a_wheel
20:35 BenGoldberg (scroll down a bit, to the code with the big list of numbers near the start)
20:38 timotimo m: my %foo = :1a, :2b, :3c; my ($a, $b) = %foo{'3'} :delete; say $a; say $b;
20:38 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«(Any)␤(Any)␤»
20:38 timotimo BenGoldberg: i think that's a part of b0rkedness
20:39 timotimo m: my %foo = :1a, :2b, :3c; my ($a, $b) = %foo{'3'}:kv:delete; say $a; say $b;
20:39 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«(Any)␤(Any)␤»
20:39 timotimo m: my %foo = :1a, :2b, :3c; my ($a, $b) = %foo{'c'}:kv:delete; say $a; say $b;
20:39 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«c␤3␤»
20:39 timotimo sorry, i wronged it.
20:39 timotimo m: my %foo = :1a, :2b, :3c; my ($a, $b) = %foo{'c'} :delete; say $a; say $b;
20:39 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«3␤(Any)␤»
20:39 timotimo but yeah, you don't get k and v with just :delete, so you don't get the values you want
20:40 timotimo but :kv in addition will give you what you need
20:40 timotimo BenGoldberg: ^- sounds good?
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20:53 BenGoldberg I think so.
20:53 BenGoldberg Err, actually... I don't want the key, only the value
20:54 timotimo oh, the values are lists themselves?
20:54 BenGoldberg I'm storing stuff into %sieve with '%sieve{$nxt} = ($s, $si);' and similar.
20:55 timotimo OK. i wonder if you need something extra to make it properly spill into the two variables
20:56 BenGoldberg m: my %foo; %foo{a} = ('b', 'c'); my ($x, $y) = %foo{a}:delete; dd %foo, $x, $y;
20:56 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    a used at line 1␤␤»
20:56 BenGoldberg m: my %foo; %foo{42} = ('b', 'c'); my ($x, $y) = %foo{42}:delete; dd %foo, $x, $y;
20:56 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«Hash %foo = {}␤Str $x = "b"␤Str $y = "c"␤»
20:57 timotimo huh.
20:57 timotimo m: my %foo; %foo{10} := ('c', 'd'); dd %foo
20:57 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«Hash %foo = {"10" => ("c", "d")}␤»
20:57 timotimo m: my %foo; %foo{10} = ('c', 'd'); dd %foo
20:57 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«Hash %foo = {"10" => $("c", "d")}␤»
20:57 timotimo oh, you had :delete there, my bad :)
20:58 BenGoldberg Right, because the original python code had sieve.pop
21:00 BenGoldberg Anyway, I'm 90% certain that the problem is not due to '($foo, $bar) = whatever'
21:00 tailgate is zip-latest a lazy version of zip?
21:01 timotimo not quite
21:01 timotimo zip-latest doesn't require all supplies involved to emit the same amount fo things
21:01 timotimo it'll emit a new tuple whenever one of the incoming supplies changes
21:01 timotimo rather than waiting for every supply to emit the nth value to put into the nth outgoing tuple
21:02 timotimo BBIAB
21:02 tailgate ah, I see.
21:05 tailgate is zip by itself lazy? looking at the implemenation in infix Z from List.pm, it uses a gather/take block
21:05 tailgate but it also has conditionals on nqp::iscont and is-lazy
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21:24 timotimo yeah, zip is lazy
21:24 timotimo but zip-latest is also only a method for supplies, zip works on many things
21:25 timotimo everything in supplies is ... something quite similar to lazy
21:37 BenGoldberg s: &infix:<Z>
21:37 SourceBaby BenGoldberg, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/ee8a25e/src/core/List.pm#L1533
21:40 BenGoldberg m: gather {}.WHAT.say
21:40 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«(Seq)␤»
21:41 BenGoldberg s: Seq, 'lazy-if'
21:41 SourceBaby BenGoldberg, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/ee8a25e/src/core/Iterable.pm#L71
21:44 grondilu raydiak: u there?
21:48 grondilu raydiak: https://github.com/raydiak/Math-Symbolic/issues/3
21:52 timotimo .seen raydiak
21:52 yoleaux I saw raydiak 18 Jul 2016 11:52Z in #perl6: <raydiak> I was ending up with some barely-a-shadow-of-a-real-regex pattern implementation...more like lua patterns...just so it was all on a level I understood how to work with so I could implement the generative part. then realized how silly it is to write a pattern matching engine in a language which has an incredibly powerful pattern matching engine built in. that's where that project stopped, he
21:54 El_Che Hi, a NativeCall question. If i need to pass a pointer to a pointer to a nativecall function, how do create a pointer-to-a-pointer in the calling perl6 code? In the nativecall part I created this: a C Pointer class: class LibLDAP::Native::LDAP is repr('CPointer') { }
21:54 El_Che and this is the function in question: sub ldap_initialize(Pointer[LibLDAP::Native::LDAP], Str) returns int32 is native(l,v) is export { * }
21:54 El_Che all the other 'C-perl6 bridged' functions work fine as they just require a pointer
21:56 El_Che (this is an example of a function that works fine (the returned pointer can be passed to other function anddo the correct stuff): sub ldap_init(Str, int32) returns LibLDAP::Native::LDAP is native(l,v) is export { * }
21:57 grondilu .tell raydiak https://github.com/raydiak/Math-Symbolic/issues/3
21:57 yoleaux grondilu: I'll pass your message to raydiak.
21:59 Ben_Goldberg joined #perl6
22:03 setty1 joined #perl6
22:08 El_Che found it! is rw
22:08 El_Che :)
22:09 El_Che I misunderstook the docs as only applying to a native C type
22:15 grondilu
22:15 grondilu TEST
22:15 El_Che mic test?
22:23 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
22:25 grondilu nah just realized I was in caps lock, which is why I could not change tmux window.
22:38 bjz joined #perl6
22:55 dataangel Does Perl 6 have something like python's pickle module? (Automatically serializes most arbitrary objects)
22:58 ugexe nqp::serialize, but i'm only half serious
22:59 dataangel ugexe: is it similar but has some horrible limitation or...?
22:59 ugexe i'm not sure its documented or meant to be used period yet
23:04 bjz joined #perl6
23:09 dataangel I see a module I want to use on modules.perl6.org but I'm not sure how. I don't appear to have panda installed, and the github page for panda says I need rakudobrew which I don't appear to have either. Should I just build both from source? Why are there two applications for downloading modules and why does one require the other?
23:12 sena_kun dataangel, rakudobrew is a general script to install rakudo/panda. For example, I don't want to install rakudo every time manually, so I use rakudobrew to automate this process. How did you get rakudo, firstly? Do you use Rakudo Star package or built it by hands?
23:12 ugexe where does pandas github say you need rakudobrew?
23:13 ugexe it says rakudobrew is the most common way, and then lists the instructions on manual installation
23:13 dataangel Well I figured I should be doing it the common way is, I mis- paraphrased
23:15 ugexe i was confused because you asked why one required the other, which you seem to understand is not true
23:15 dataangel sena_kun: I built it by hand
23:15 dataangel I mistakenly thought they were both doing the same thing as panda
23:19 dwarring joined #perl6
23:19 sena_kun dataangel, nope. Building by hands is not really cool, so you can 1)use Rakudo Star distribution which has many packages pre-installed and rakudo built; 2)use rakudobrew to build rakudo and panda to install modules. The first way should be more "user-friendly", but I've never used it, so I can't help you Rakudo Star, sorry. Rakudobrew, though, is a quite handy thing to make things work.
23:22 timotimo m: say -« [1, 2, 3]
23:22 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«[-1 -2 -3]␤»
23:23 timotimo interesting. i didn't know we allow whitespace there
23:25 dataangel What is the difference between need and use? Documentation says that use also does an import at compile time... So does that mean I only need to worry about the distinction if I'm doing meta-programming using the module I'm needing/using?
23:26 ugexe rakudobrew could add a command that just acts as a front end to an uninstalled copy of zef to work across all installations, which would then get precompiled for whatever rakudo version when it gets run
23:35 skids joined #perl6
23:35 dataangel p6: use JSON::Tiny; say JSON::Tiny::EXPORT::DEFAULT::.keys; JSON::Tiny::to-json([6, 7]); # why doesn't this work? Complains that it can't find the symbol to-json
23:35 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find JSON::Tiny at line 1 in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6␤    CompUnit::Re…»
23:36 dataangel Apparently bot doesn't have it installed at all :p
23:36 timotimo dataangel: i think need is use minus import
23:36 timotimo yeah, you only get some modules when you use "star-m:"
23:36 timotimo star-m: use JSON::Tiny; say to-json([6, 7]).perl
23:36 camelia star-m 2016.04: OUTPUT«"[ 6, 7 ]"␤»
23:36 dataangel timotimo: not sure what you mean?
23:37 dataangel What the heck is that?
23:37 timotimo we have an extra invocation for camelia that'll give you the modules that are part of rakudo star
23:37 dataangel Oh I thought you meant a language construct for a second
23:37 timotimo nah :)
23:38 dataangel Why does it work for her?
23:38 dataangel I get: Could not find symbol '&to-json'
23:38 sufrostico joined #perl6
23:38 dataangel Oh you're not qualifying it
23:41 timotimo aye
23:51 dataangel That's interesting because originally I forgot to do the 'use' and got a deprecated function with the same name. So the 'use' just silently overrode the existing function? That seems dangerous if you are using multiple things
23:54 BenGoldberg In perl5, if a module exports a function which the caller has already defined, then there's a redefinition warning.
23:55 BenGoldberg m: sub foo { 42 }; sub foo { 43 }; say foo;
23:55 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Redeclaration of routine foo␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub foo { 42 }; sub foo { 43 }7⏏5; say foo;␤    expecting any of:␤        horizontal whitespace␤        statement end␤        statement modi…»
23:55 BenGoldberg m: sub foo { 42 }; my &foo = sub { 43 }; say foo;
23:55 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Redeclaration of symbol &foo␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3sub foo { 42 }; my &foo7⏏5 = sub { 43 }; say foo;␤43␤»
23:55 BenGoldberg m: sub foo { 42 }; local &foo := sub { 43 }; say foo;
23:55 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub foo { 42 }; local &foo := sub { 43 }7⏏5; say foo;␤»
23:56 BenGoldberg m: sub foo { 42 }; local &foo = sub { 43 }; say foo;
23:56 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    local used at line 1 (in Perl 6 please use temp (or dynamic var) instead)␤␤»
23:56 BenGoldberg m: sub foo { 42 }; temp &foo = sub { 43 }; say foo;
23:56 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«Can only use 'temp' on a container␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
23:57 geekosaur the thing is that the deprecated one is not defined in your scope, but in an outer scope (perl 5 only has a very limited notion of scoping)
23:58 geekosaur it would be nice if there were a pragma to get shadowing warnings though
23:59 ugexe m: module XXX { sub foo() is export { 42 }; }; import XXX; my &foo = sub { 43 }; say foo;
23:59 camelia rakudo-moar ee8a25: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Redeclaration of symbol &foo␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3is export { 42 }; }; import XXX; my &foo7⏏5 = sub { 43 }; say foo;␤43␤»

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