Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-09-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:46 lambd0x The newest rakudo is more reliable for large sized inputs when it boils down to sorting algs (e.g., bubble up to counting, bucket) ;) . I enjoyed seeing it had improved performance in comparison to last month. Gotta sleep, later.
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00:53 tushar I have an array and I would like to create same length of array by joining the index of first array with a text. I am achieving this by below code. Is there any other way of doing the same?
00:53 tushar m: my @a = [1..4]; for @a.pairs.hash.keys.sort -> $idx { say join("", "V", $idx); }
00:53 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«V0␤V1␤V2␤V3␤»
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01:05 geekosaur m: my @a = ^4; say @a >>~>> 'V'
01:05 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«[0V 1V 2V 3V]␤»
01:08 tushar geekosaur: you are doing joining of array element with text, not array index with text. Also, joining results are other way around. I am trying to get "V0, V1, V2, V3".
01:09 geekosaur m: my @a = ^4; say @a.keys >>R~>> 'V'
01:09 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«(V0 V1 V2 V3)␤»
01:10 geekosaur m: my @a = [5..8]; say @a.keys >>R~>> 'V'
01:10 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«(V0 V1 V2 V3)␤»
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01:11 tushar geekosaur: thanks. How can i forget R operator? hmm..
01:11 perlawhirl alternatively...
01:11 perlawhirl m: my @a = 1..4; say @a.keys.map('V'~*)
01:12 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«(V0 V1 V2 V3)␤»
01:12 tushar Is there anyway to check the empty array?
01:12 geekosaur or alternately
01:12 geekosaur m: my @a = ^4; say 'V' <<~<< @a.keys
01:12 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«(V0 V1 V2 V3)␤»
01:12 geekosaur and what is "check the empty array"?
01:12 geekosaur m: my @a; say +@a
01:12 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«0␤»
01:14 tushar In perl 5 we can check whether an array is defined or not using "define" keyword. I read some where that defined doen't work exactly same as Perl5. So, is there any way to check if array is empty array or not?
01:15 geekosaur I thought they removed that, actually; defined is not sensible on list or hash
01:16 geekosaur (iirc it did'nt tell you whether it was empty; it told you whether it had storage allocated)
01:18 tushar hmm.. How can we do that in Perl 6?
01:19 Juerd tushar: Just use the array itself as the condition
01:19 geekosaur as I already showed
01:20 Juerd m: my @array = (); if (@array) { say "Not empty" } else { say "Empty" }
01:20 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«Empty␤»
01:20 Juerd m: my @array = (1, 2, 3); if (@array) { say "Not empty" } else { say "Empty" }
01:20 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«Not empty␤»
01:20 geekosaur (and yes, at least as of perl 5.18 defined @array and defined %hash are deprecated)
01:20 Juerd Note that this is the same in Perl 5 and Perl 6. Even in Perl 5, you shouldn't use defined with arrays, as geekosaur already explained.
01:21 tushar @geekpsaur and @ Juerd.. thanks for your help
01:23 perlawhirl tushar: also, the brackets aren't required around simple conditionals like this... more idiomatic perl6 is just: if @array { ... }
01:24 perlawhirl unless you're trying to write polyglot code that runs in both perl 5 and 6 :D
01:24 tushar perlawhirl: thanks. I am getting used to it now.
01:24 geekosaur in p5: my @a = 1; pop @a; # @a is now empty but defined
01:25 geekosaur which usually isn't what you intended, and arguably allocation state is an internal detail that was being leaked
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01:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:21 BenGoldberg m: my @a = 1; say @a.elems;
02:21 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«1␤»
02:21 BenGoldberg m: my @a = 1; say @a.!elems;
02:21 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed postfix call␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my @a = 1; say @a.7⏏5!elems;␤»
02:22 BenGoldberg m: my @a = 1; say elems R.@a;
02:22 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared name:␤    R used at line 1␤␤»
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05:01 dalek ecosystem: 85652c5 | (Sterling Hanenkamp)++ | META.list:
05:01 dalek ecosystem: Adding Getopt::ForClass to the Perl 6 ecosystem
05:01 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/85652c578f
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05:07 cxreg probably useful: https://github.com/indutny/uv_link_t
05:09 cxreg maybe better directed at #moarvm
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06:29 markk For email this is. But it isn'/w 2
06:30 markk Erk. Sorry stupid connection over mobile
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07:19 brrt has… t/04-nativecall/13-union.t always been flappy? or rather, for how long has it been so?
07:19 brrt does not seem to respond to MVM_JIT_DISABLE
07:19 brrt which are typical much more repeatable anyway
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07:32 nine brrt: does look familiar. I think I've seen it fail at times
07:32 brrt hmmm
07:32 brrt weird
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08:03 masak m: my ($temperature = 37, $pressure = 19, $balloonCount = 65); say $pressure
08:03 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
08:03 masak morning, #perl6 :)
08:05 [ptc] masak: o/
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08:17 lizmat masak: that should either at least die or work
08:17 lizmat evidently it is parsed
08:20 lizmat afk&
08:21 masak lizmat: agree, I think
08:21 masak lizmat: it's surprising that it means *something* to Perl 6, but that something is not Least Surprise to the user
08:22 masak also, not the first time this is brought up -- there's probably an RT somewhere :)
08:24 arnsholt I wonder who submitted the RT =)
08:24 arnsholt (Also, I feel rather strongly that $balloonCount should be 99 =)
08:25 masak ah; sorry about that
08:26 masak m: my ($balloonCount = 99); say $balloonCount
08:26 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
08:26 masak it's almost more disturbing when it's only the one variable declared
08:26 masak ...because parentheses are just for grouping, right? right? :)
08:30 moritz ... except when not :/
08:32 arnsholt Well, when looking at --target=ast for the case with parens, it looks like the integer literal is gone from the AST
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08:34 El_Che aah. I hate it when DHL marks something as 'delivered' when it isn't
08:35 lizmat El_Che: don't get us started on DHL  :-)
08:35 tadzik :D
08:35 tadzik delivery seems like something that's tricky to get right
08:35 El_Che lizmat: the USA import hing?
08:35 El_Che t
08:35 lizmat El_Che: yeah that
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08:36 lizmat still waiting for them to take us to court  :-)
08:36 * brrt wonders about that story
08:39 lizmat in short: you cannot send something from NL to yourself in the US if you're not a US citizen
08:39 arnsholt tadzik: Logistics is tricky. Chock full of NP-complete problems
08:39 lizmat DHL gladly did and charged us for it there and back.  we still refuse to pay
08:39 arnsholt Travelling salesman for example is a pretty fundamental part of logistics
08:39 tadzik nodnod
08:40 moritz arnsholt: the algorithmic side usually isn't the problem
08:40 moritz arnsholt: the problem is more regulations, company policy and stuff
08:40 arnsholt That's true. There are good approximations for TSP
08:40 moritz dealing with organizational boundaries
08:40 moritz all that "good" stuff
08:41 El_Che dhl is annoying. When you order stuff from the USA to BE, they automatically add import taxes + an administrative fee for their work
08:41 El_Che other don't do it
08:41 El_Che you only pay if customs thinks you should pay (base on value or volume or whatever)
08:42 El_Che dhl does it for you without asking
08:42 El_Che brrr
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08:46 masak lizmat: curious. so the shipment actually got all the way to the US, and then got sent back?
08:47 masak lizmat: one would think that DHL had been in exactly such a situation before, and could be a little proactive -- "hey, this won't work" or something
08:47 lizmat yup, all the way to Cleveland, OH (destined for Salt Lake City) and then back
08:47 lizmat masak: exactly our point
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08:49 masak lizmat: I don't see how it's in your interest to pay. I don't see how it's in their interest to take you to court over such an absurd thing. (though I Am Not A Lawyer.)
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08:49 lizmat well, they've been threatening to do this for over a year now  :)
08:49 llfourn_ it's probably in their interest to at least threaten it ;)
08:50 lizmat well, that's the thing, they don't threaten themselves
08:50 lizmat they have a collection agency do that
08:50 masak outsource your threatening
08:50 llfourn_ ah
08:50 tadzik "we're not evil"
08:50 lizmat and now I think the collection agency basically has told them this isn't working
08:50 lizmat and now they don't know what to do
08:51 lizmat tadzik: I don't think they're evil, just incompetent
08:51 lizmat after the collection agency returned the contract to get the money from us to DHL
08:51 lizmat they said they would reply
08:51 lizmat to this day, we never got a reply in writing from DHL
08:52 lizmat just a phone call from some understudy at DHL who was told to phone us to tell us they decided we should pay
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08:52 lizmat the person who called us had not read the file at all
08:52 lizmat so, incompetence reigns
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08:52 tadzik heh
08:53 tadzik right, “don't attribute to malice what you can attribute to simple incompetence”
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08:53 llfourn_ though I think some malicious people may have figured out how to abuse that assumption :\
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09:00 masak there should be a term for such people, who know to abuse Hanlon's razor
09:00 masak "Hanlon parasites"?
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09:01 * masak .oO( Hanlon parasite (n.) a person who exploits people's willingness to attribute their malice to incompetence due to Hanlon's razor )
09:02 llfourn_ I never knew it was an razor attributed to Halon till now
09:02 masak ah; you're just saying that to be malicious :P
09:02 llfourn_ maybe someone who abuses common knowledge of a razor could be stabber
09:03 llfourn_ they cut you with the razor
09:03 llfourn_ or something similar
09:03 masak stabbing is not so naturally associated with razors, IMHO
09:03 llfourn_ true
09:03 llfourn_ cutters :P
09:03 masak "Hanlon slasher", perhaps
09:03 llfourn_ yeah that's good :)
09:03 masak yes, I think I prefer that
09:03 lizmat .oO( I want to be a lumberjack! )
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09:09 llfourn_ I'm pretty sure Occam slashers are a thing too
09:11 konobi lizmat: it's surprisingly well paid if you have the degree
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09:33 llfourn_ m: role R { method f {...} }; class A { method f { } }; class B does R { has A $.a handles <f> is required };
09:33 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Method 'f' must be implemented by B because it is required by a role␤at <tmp>:1␤»
09:33 llfourn_ ^ since $.a handles 'f' I think this should work
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09:36 psch i think that's on composition order, somehow
09:36 psch m: class A { has $x handles <foo> }; say A.^can('foo');
09:36 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«(foo)␤»
09:36 psch a handled method gets added to the class of the Attribute
09:36 psch but the role-stub check probably happens before that
09:36 psch no idea if we can change that
09:36 jnthn It's because role composition happens before attribute composition because roles might bring along attributes
09:37 llfourn_ hmm that makes sense
09:37 jnthn That in itself can't change. It's possible that the handles trait could do its work more immediately but I fear that'd have a different surprise
09:38 llfourn_ I'll make an RT for later consideration :)
09:38 psch ISTR we have that already
09:38 jnthn oh...yeah, it'd break when the handles is in a role, at least if we don't make further changes to compensate for that :)
09:38 psch i think it was about 'does Positional' and 'has @.a handles <AT-POS ...>'
09:39 psch have the RT, i mean
09:39 llfourn_ psch: I've looked for an RT wrt to handles and stub methods but haven't found
09:39 psch llfourn_: alright, maybe it was just discussion here and didn't make it to RT :)
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09:39 llfourn_ I did make a RT related to delgating array stuff to arrays via handles but not really the same thing
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09:46 llfourn_ RT #129325
09:46 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=129325
09:47 llfourn_ I'd guess the solution would be to delay required method checking until after attribute composition
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10:18 jkramer m: IO::Path.new('foo/../baz').absolute('/bar').resolve
10:18 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«IO::Path is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 1␤  in method new at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 32␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
10:18 jkramer Hmm
10:19 jkramer Can someone confirm that IO::Path.absolute returns a Str when according to the docs it should return an IO::Path?
10:19 jkramer # perl6 -e "IO::Path.new('foo/../baz').absolute('/bar').resolve"
10:19 jkramer Method 'resolve' not found for invocant of class 'Str'
10:20 jkramer https://docs.perl6.org/type/IO::Path#method_absolute
10:21 brrt m: IO::Path.new('foo/../baz').absolute.say;
10:21 camelia rakudo-moar 8be36b: OUTPUT«IO::Path is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 1␤  in method new at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 32␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
10:21 brrt yep, returns a Str
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10:22 jkramer Ah, there's already a report https://rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=126262
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10:41 masak new blog post: http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/where-in-the-sky (not really Perl 6, not yet anyway)
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10:44 gfldex masak++ # for consistently writing strangly :)
10:45 masak haven't been all that consistent in my writing lately... :)
10:45 moritz masak++
10:45 masak instead, I've been building up a backlog of posts-I-want-to-write
10:45 moritz I've also written a non-Perl 6 blog post: https://perlgeek.de/blog-en/misc/2016-bio.html (warning: pseudo philosophical ramblings in there)
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10:47 masak moritz++ # blog post
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10:56 lizmat masak: there's an app for that
10:57 lizmat I mean, an app that you can point at the sky at it will show you stars / planets, even below the horizon :-)
10:57 masak I address that in the post -- that's not what I'm after ;)
10:57 masak I'm sure there are plenty of good apps out there
10:58 masak but I don't want the pre-packaged ready answer
10:58 masak I want the joy of carrying out the calculation right (using my own code)
10:58 masak (yes, I realize that is weird. I'm into re-inventing wheels to see if I can.)
10:59 lizmat masak: oops, should read more carefully  :-)
10:59 lizmat masak: the apps I've seen are amazing, really
10:59 masak I should try them.
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10:59 masak especially when I get numbers of my own, to compare :)
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11:00 lizmat I seem to remember SkyView Free
11:01 * brrt recalls 'so long, and thanks for all the fish', in which writing-a-program-to-compute-the-position-of-the-stars is a plot device
11:02 arnsholt moritz: "Who are you?" gives me a proper Babylon 5 flashback =)
11:02 gfldex I am me, that I am certain of. What that means I am not certain of.
11:03 moritz gfldex: that's kinda the point :-)
11:04 masak gfldex: even Descartes got a bit further than that :P
11:05 gfldex moritz: your post made me think of what will remain of me when I am not. There is pretty much nothing left of the original Linux or Unix source code. But what about man-pages? Does writing docs made me immortal (for a value of immortal that depends on how long humans use english)?
11:06 moritz gfldex: and, is it really important that something will remain of you, after your death?
11:06 moritz you won't care anymore
11:06 moritz the idea is nice, but why?
11:07 gfldex For the I-am-me-problem it has relevance.
11:07 moritz gfldex: also, today's Linux evolved from Linux 0.01. Even if none of the code of Linux 0.01 remains in today's kernel, its inheritance in terms of project/community still influences Linux today
11:08 moritz (where by Linux 0.01 I mean the first code that Linus wrote, even if it never had that version tag)
11:08 gfldex I can refer to something persistent that others can refer to, proving that I am not imagining me (for low values of proof).
11:09 moritz others can refer to your body, or to your lines on IRC just the same
11:09 * moritz is being obnoxious today
11:09 gfldex also humans seam to like grave stones, what is a completely pointless endeavour for the person whos name is on it.
11:10 [ptc] it's nice to have the feeling that one has made a contribution to society etc., at least while one is still "here", however afterwards it only probably matters to those left behind
11:10 [ptc] moritz: nice post btw :-)
11:10 moritz [ptc]: thanks
11:11 moritz gfldex: right, that's really for those left behind to help them deal with their grief
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11:33 RabidGravy if anyone fancies shutting up a warning in panda https://github.com/tadzik/panda/pull/330
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11:38 lizmat done
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11:45 RabidGravy cool
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11:56 masak I'm seeing issues with precompilation
11:58 masak new behavior from a change doesn't kick in until I manually remove lib/.precomp
12:00 lizmat masak: I assume you have the latest / greatest ?
12:00 masak ...probably not. good point.
12:00 * masak makes it so
12:04 Woodi hi #perl6 :)
12:05 masak symptoms seem to be gone in the latest/greatest. lizmat++ :)
12:09 Woodi I think we need more talk about what we want from repos. version is something like smallest granularity so in case version isn't changed on source changes repo should not kick in. and it works good for eg. system wide installations. for devs there is other repo representation but probably we do not know how to create/manage repos in nice way... IMO of course
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12:15 nadim hi
12:16 [Coke] ho
12:18 nadim [Coke]: you taukin' to me, you taulkin' to me ... ;)
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13:46 dalek doc: 12ec5fc | jnthn++ | doc/Type/Str.pod6:
13:46 dalek doc: Correct and expand on the documentation of ords.
13:46 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/12ec5fc35e
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13:50 bioduds sqlite is the only I could put to work so far, with DBLis
13:51 bioduds DBIish
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13:52 ZoffixW You sure you got all the libs? sqlite is the only one included with that module
13:52 yoleaux 23 Jun 2016 14:13Z <hahainternet> ZoffixW: alternate design looks superb
13:53 ZoffixW .oo( alternate design??? )
13:53 moritz that's from June. doc.perl6.org maybe?
13:53 bioduds sqlite will do for now
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13:53 bioduds :)
13:54 moritz postgres dbiish driver worked fine for me, last I tried
13:55 Undercover joined #perl6
13:56 ZoffixW c: &say
13:56 Undercover ZoffixW, The code is hit during stresstest [WARNING: this line is a proto! Check individual multies] See http://perl6.WTF/src_core_io_operators.pm.coverage.html#L20 for details
13:56 ZoffixW c: &say, \()
13:56 Undercover ZoffixW, The code is NOT hit during stresstest See http://perl6.WTF/src_core_io_operators.pm.coverage.html#L21 for details
13:57 ZoffixW c: Any, 'pairs', \()
13:57 Undercover ZoffixW, The code is hit during stresstest See http://perl6.WTF/src_core_Any.pm.coverage.html#L98 for details
13:57 ZoffixW Neat \o/
13:58 ZoffixW Next step would be to make it know which stresstest *file* hits the code, but currently that'd take forever to run. Volunteers to make this parser generate separate reports per input file per run are needed: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/line_based_coverage_4/tools/parse_coverage_report.p6
13:59 ZoffixW So that way, it has to read the annotations (that takes forever) just once and then just would go in and generate separate reports for each stresstest file and then the bot would just look up which files hit a particular line :)
13:59 ZoffixW And http://perl6.WTF/ has core coverage now :)
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14:04 moritz does it have known bugs?
14:04 khw joined #perl6
14:05 moritz http://perl6.wtf/src_core_Any-iterable-methods.pm.coverage.html if you look at lines 35 to 37
14:05 moritz the first two of those lines aren't covered, the next is. Why?
14:05 moritz there's no conditional involved there
14:05 ZoffixW Yeah, it's all still experimental, based on timotimo++'s coverage MoarVM branch.
14:06 ZoffixW This one is also reported as uncovered http://perl6.WTF/src_core_Any.pm.coverage.html#L464 Even though there is a test that covers it: https://github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master/S32-hash/pairs.t#L94
14:06 dalek doc: 5e1399a | gfldex++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod6:
14:06 dalek doc: text and example is for routine take, not .take
14:06 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5e1399a3dd
14:06 dalek doc: 845f0b4 | gfldex++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod6:
14:06 dalek doc: add method Mu::take
14:06 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/845f0b4e00
14:06 dalek doc: 8b565ab | gfldex++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod6:
14:06 dalek doc: fix definition of sub take
14:06 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8b565ab00f
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14:21 dalek doc: b373bcf | gfldex++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod6:
14:21 dalek doc: doc sub take-rw
14:21 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b373bcfe8f
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14:29 dalek doc: 82fd097 | gfldex++ | doc/Language/control.pod6:
14:29 dalek doc: link to sub take
14:29 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/82fd097604
14:29 dalek doc: 70ccb63 | gfldex++ | doc/Language/control.pod6:
14:29 dalek doc: mention take-rw
14:29 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/70ccb6374e
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14:50 El_Che Rakudo 2016.09 packages for Ubuntu and Centos: https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases/tag/2016.09
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15:04 pmurias hmm, if we integrated our Perl 6 grammar with vim, would it be usefull to create new vim text objects that would make use of it?
15:05 pmurias like we could have a "expression starting at cursor", "quoted string", "whole identifier with hyphens" etc text-objects
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15:20 stmuk El_Che++
15:21 stmuk El_Che: I was thinking of doing dpkg and rpm releases for next month's star
15:26 El_Che stmuk: that would be a great addition. Are you thinking of one pkg per module of one pkg for star?
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15:35 El_Che bbl
15:35 stmuk El_Che: ideally
15:36 mst "are you think of X, or Y?"
15:36 mst "ideally"
15:37 gfldex lolibloggedalittle: https://gfldex.wordpress.com/2016/09/21/are-these-your-keys/
15:37 timotimo mst: there wasn't an or between X and Y there
15:38 mst El_Che: your actual question was "are you thinking of one package per module or one package for star?" right?
15:39 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
15:39 Ulti compare and contrast http://mattoates.co.uk/files/perl6/bioinfo_profile_2014-09-16.html with http://mattoates.co.uk/files/perl6/bioinfo_profile_2016-09-21.html
15:43 timotimo Ulti: good improvement
15:44 Ulti yup
15:45 timotimo i hope there'll be some more future improvement, too :)
15:46 Ulti tempted to just fix the code to be faster :P
15:46 Ulti the main thing is a load of hash creation which is genuinely a "feature" of my code
15:46 Ulti however does kind of point out if that was shaved my stuff gets way faster
15:47 dalek doc: 8b59639 | coke++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod6:
15:47 dalek doc: fix whitespace
15:47 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8b59639ba6
15:50 bioduds subs cant have named arguments?
15:51 bioduds inicialização-do-programa do-zero => True;
15:51 tadzik yes
15:51 bioduds sub inicialização-do-programa( Bool $do-zero = False ) {
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15:51 ilmari m: sub foo (:$bar) { say $bar }; foo bar => 42
15:51 camelia rakudo-moar 77a2ff: OUTPUT«42␤»
15:51 tadzik m: sub with-named(:$arg) { say $arg }; with-named arg => "bazinga"
15:51 camelia rakudo-moar 77a2ff: OUTPUT«bazinga␤»
15:51 ilmari tadzik: ⁵
15:51 timotimo yo tadzik :)
15:51 bioduds oh
15:51 bioduds :$ ok
15:52 bioduds thanks :D
15:52 tadzik ilmari: https://tadzik.net/pub/EOgR4QJ5MZ.png you confused me a lot :D
15:52 tadzik timotimo: yo dawg o/
15:52 ilmari tadzik: haha. I got them the other way around here
15:53 tadzik the joys of the irc bridge :P
15:53 ilmari that can happen with unbridged irc too, since you don't get your own messages back
15:54 ilmari so your client shows your thing immediately, whereas others get the network delay
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16:17 tushar Is there any way I can stay connected to this channel and never leave?
16:18 mcmillhj joined #perl6
16:19 mst tushar: get a client that satys connected
16:20 vcv get a vm, use tmux/screen with irssi/bitchx/another cli client
16:21 vcv there is irccloud.com too but that costs $$
16:22 robertle joined #perl6
16:22 tushar mst: how and from where can I get client?
16:23 tushar vcv: I have already got IRC Cloud app on my phone
16:24 domidumont joined #perl6
16:25 tushar mst: I will explore the IRC client option. Thanks.
16:26 mst I run irssi on a server. there's also weechat and znc
16:26 ilmari https://riot.im/
16:26 ilmari has web, android, ios clients
16:26 ilmari and bridges to freenode, mozilla and w3c IRC
16:27 * ilmari[m] waves from riot
16:28 Ven_ joined #perl6
16:31 tushar ilmari: thanks.
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17:59 xdxdxd How would I organize a ton of retrievable information on different pokemon into a separate perl6 file
18:02 xdxdxd oh
18:02 xdxdxd I'd use a map, right?
18:02 avuserow hi xdxdxd, depends on what information you want and how you want to retrieve it. you might be able to get away with a file that defines and exports some hashes or objects, or maybe something like SQLite would be more appropriate
18:03 xdxdxd It will be nearly 2,000 lines or so of information on each individual pokemon
18:03 xdxdxd Would SQLite be more suitable for that?
18:03 timotimo SQLite is quite fantastic in any case
18:04 timotimo you can use DBIish to use it from perl6
18:07 avuserow SQLite and other databases would excel if you had a bunch of relational data beyond just "pokemon 1 has weight X and height Y", since you could write SQL queries allowing you to ask "what's the most powerful move learned by normal types", or similar
18:08 avuserow you can answer the same question if the data is stored in p6 data structures, but you'll have to write the iteration as perl6 rather than SQL. may or may not be better.
18:08 xdxdxd I'll definitely be going with SQLite then
18:08 xdxdxd thanks for the help
18:09 baest I've just upgraded to 2016.09 and I see the last letter being cropped. It didn't do that in 2016.08.1. Test case: http://pastebin.com/HYPpTEPA
18:09 baest Anybody seen anything similar?
18:10 baest sorry, last letter being cropped in simple client/server application
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18:11 baest output is "12", was expecting "123"
18:15 timotimo baest: i suggest you send a newline after the 3
18:15 cdg joined #perl6
18:16 baest timotimo: yes, make sense, but it wasn't necessary before. You don't think it is an error?
18:16 jnthn No, and there's an explanation here: https://docs.perl6.org/type/IO$COLON$COLONSocket$COLON$COLONAsync#method_Supply
18:16 timotimo when a string is received, perl6 has to keep the last character around in case the next char received is a combining character
18:17 timotimo if there's a newline or some other control character at the end, we know there can't be a combiner
18:17 dalek doc: c9918db | (Alexey Melezhik)++ | doc/Language/exceptions.pod6:
18:17 dalek doc: tried to make it clear what happens with the code following after CATCH blocks
18:17 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c9918dbd5a
18:17 dalek doc: 36648dc | (Alexey Melezhik)++ | doc/Language/exceptions.pod6:
18:17 dalek doc: adjustment after talk with people by IRC
18:17 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/36648dc069
18:17 dalek doc: 4a4c9e3 | (Alexey Melezhik)++ | doc/Language/exceptions.pod6:
18:17 dalek doc: s/upper/outer/
18:17 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4a4c9e3b46
18:17 dalek doc: a5f98bd | gfldex++ | doc/Language/exceptions.pod6:
18:17 dalek doc: Merge pull request #876 from melezhik/master
18:17 dalek doc:
18:17 dalek doc: Exceptions handlers and enclosing blocks.
18:17 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a5f98bd44b
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18:18 baest ok, sounds reasonable, thanks guys!
18:19 timotimo i don't know if it mentions this, but you can use :bin to get bufs instead of strings
18:20 timotimo that way you'll get to ignore the possibility of combining characters
18:21 smls timotimo: Has a way to specify an encoding been added yet? Then you could use 'utf8-c8' to pass through arbitrary bytes while still working with strings.
18:21 timotimo smls: i expect utf8-c8 will still have the part added to it that cares about combining characters
18:22 MetaZoffix joined #perl6
18:22 smls Ah, right.
18:22 grondilu joined #perl6
18:22 MetaZoffix What would the :bin go into though? There's already a $conn.Supply(:bin)
18:22 smls But it won't ever throw an encoding error, right?
18:22 grondilu joined #perl6
18:22 Xliff_ Does anyone know how I would go about writing this in nqp?
18:22 Xliff_ loop (my $iv; $iv !=:= IterationEnd; $iv = iter.pull-one)
18:23 MetaZoffix Oh, there isn't one on client's .Supply
18:24 timotimo hm?
18:24 baest timotimo: it mentions it, yes, I will look into it. Thanks
18:26 Xliff_ nqp: 0
18:26 camelia nqp-moarvm: ( no output )
18:27 MetaZoffix c: Iterator, 'pull-one', \()
18:27 Undercover MetaZoffix, Something's wrong: ␤ERR: Too many positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 3␤  in sub sourcery at /home/zoffix/services/lib/CoreHackers-Sourcery/lib/CoreHackers/Sourcery.pm6 (CoreHackers::Sourcery) line 25␤  in block <unit> at -e line 6␤␤
18:27 MetaZoffix m: Iterator.^can('pull-one').say
18:27 camelia rakudo-moar 77a2ff: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 3␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
18:27 MetaZoffix m: Iterator.HOW.say
18:27 camelia rakudo-moar 77a2ff: OUTPUT«Perl6::Metamodel::ParametricRoleGroupHOW.new␤»
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18:28 jnthn smls: No, didn't get to adding encodings support yet
18:28 jnthn smls: I'm currently working through a bunch of encodings stuff including enabling user-space ones
18:29 MetaZoffix TIL 9 years ago I helped out the Perl 6 effort for 4 days... even had an svn commit bit :P http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/search/?nick=Zoffix;q=;offset=6900
18:29 jnthn Though today distracted myself with fixing bugs and Unicode 9 support :)
18:29 * MetaZoffix has no recollection of those events
18:29 timotimo finally a rot13 encoding "natively" in rakudo
18:29 smls jnthn: Ah, so CPAN modules could add encodings?
18:30 timotimo will we be doing something like with Inline::? where if we use an encoding that doesn't exist natively we "use" Encoding:thething
18:34 El_Che lo
18:35 MetaZoffix \o\
18:40 smls jnthn: Will you expose a complex system of IO layers to userspace, like Perl 5? ;) http://perldoc.perl.org/PerlIO.html
18:43 jnthn smls: Yeah, the idea is that you'll be able to having something implement the Encoding role and then pass it to the :$enc parameter (and if you pass a string as today we'll resolve it to an Encoding object first)
18:43 smls neat
18:45 jnthn In general, the VM-level I/O will deal in binary, and we'll pull the "management" of I/O up to the Perl 6 level, which should make doing various tweaks easier
18:45 jnthn The various built-in encodings will still use VM-provided implementations.
18:45 jnthn But by taking them apart from I/O, you'd be able to re-use them when you have bunches of bytes and want to toss them into a streaming decoder.
18:46 jnthn (Like the body of a HTTP request after you've looked at the headers to know what encoding it needs)
18:47 smls You mean you can switch encodings in the middle of reading from a socket or filehandle?
18:48 jnthn Well, more that you'll get bytes in and coordinate decoding of them
18:50 smls ok
18:51 smls Is CR/LF newline-conversion considered separate from encodings?
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18:54 jnthn In current plans I've got it as a parameter given to the decoder
18:55 jnthn While "separate pass" is architecturally pretty it's performance ugly.
18:56 jnthn Though I suspect for user-space encodings somebody will end up putting a role on CPAN that you can just use and it will do it as another pass.
18:58 jnthn Since a decoder is just an object, though, there's no reason you can't nest them, delegating to an inner one then acting upon what it produces.
18:58 jnthn So I guess you can recreate IO layers that way ;)
18:59 smls :)
19:00 Woodi jnthn: is that work introduces something like C++ streams ot just decoders over IO ?
19:01 Woodi *or
19:02 jnthn Wouldn't the standard API of various of our IO handles be closer to that?
19:02 dalek doc: 0997b2c | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Array.pod6:
19:02 dalek doc: Document Whatever|Callable arg forms in .splice
19:02 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0997b2c510
19:02 * jnthn has mostly managed to escape C++ so far ;)
19:03 jnthn Cooking &
19:04 timotimo jnthn: C++ streams are ... complicated, complex, and powerful
19:04 timotimo you do stuff like std::cout << formatting-options-here << "hey" << more-formatting-options << 1234 << std::endl;
19:04 timotimo and these formatting options can be a whole lot of stuff
19:04 timotimo i've never used it to anywhere near its full potential
19:06 Woodi timotimo: so probably module space, if someone would like to write such thing... but manual from 90s for streams was nice :)
19:06 timotimo module space, yes
19:07 timotimo food time \o/
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19:57 moritz though in C++, << just desugars to some method call, so it's something you could build with regular method calls too
19:57 timotimo right
19:58 moritz but if you did, you'd realize how... extravagant the API is :-)
19:58 timotimo damn, someone just told me they're trying to learn c++ and gave me a screenshot of how their code errored
19:58 timotimo and it looked like no C++ i'd ever seen before
19:58 timotimo turns out there's a thing called C++/CLI by microsoft that basically puts C++ on top of the CLR or something like that
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20:31 dalek doc: 35c396e | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/CallFrame.pod6:
20:31 dalek doc: Fixed typo
20:31 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/35c396efd8
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20:38 dalek doc: c3ca435 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Callable.pod6:
20:38 dalek doc: Fixed typo in pod directive
20:38 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c3ca435056
20:52 timotimo hey everybody, upgrade your irssi versions, there's a remote-crash vulnerability in new-ish versions
20:54 * moritz waits for the Debian security update
20:54 moritz ah, it's there
20:55 timotimo i should really boot into my updated weechat
20:56 Ven_ joined #perl6
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21:04 moritz turns out that irssi's /upgrade comand works well, except for two gotchas: It seems to drop SSL connections, and it opened old privmsg windows for me in addition to keeping the old ones
21:07 geekosaur the ssl one is noted in the advisory
21:08 stmuk I upgraded recently to weechat! :)
21:08 timotimo yay weechat
21:08 timotimo wee yaychat!
21:08 geekosaur that makes sense actually: connections in the clear have only OS process level state, but SSL/TLS has additional state in process memory
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21:10 timotimo the SSL library used probably doesn't allow extracting all that data and transplanting it into another process?
21:10 geekosaur openssl is rather protective of that data, with good reason
21:11 timotimo right
21:11 geekosaur (current state of the encryption algorithm)
21:11 bartolin joined #perl6
21:11 geekosaur (also ephemeral keys and such)
21:12 geekosaur (well, I suppose that's part of the current state...)
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21:58 AlexDaniel Oh, seems like gogs&notabug are less dead nowadays
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22:00 timotimo what's that?
22:02 aindilis` joined #perl6
22:02 AlexDaniel timotimo: basically a free/open-source alternative to github
22:04 AlexDaniel timotimo: for example: https://notabug.org/hp/gogs/
22:06 timotimo i see
22:09 AlexDaniel last time I checked not only it was very … useless… but these projects were also a bit dead. Good to see them alive again
22:12 timotimo https://twitter.com/loltimo/status/778718244429365248
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