Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-10-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Zoffix m: use nqp; my int $x = 4; say nqp::isint(nqp::unbox_i($x))
00:00 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«0␤»
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00:43 Herby_ o/
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00:49 timotimo o/
00:49 Zoffix |
00:49 Zoffix /\
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01:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:26 dalek doc: 4d1e453 | coke++ | doc/Language/phasers.pod6:
03:26 dalek doc: remove trailing whitespace
03:26 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4d1e453021
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04:01 dalek doc: cd52c6b | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Programs/00-running.pod6:
04:01 dalek doc: Document RAKUDO_OPTIMIZER_DEBUG env var
04:01 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/cd52c6b020
04:02 Herby_ question
04:04 Herby_ I have a hash %employee<name=>'hank', age=>40, sex=>'male'>
04:05 Herby_ i want to create a new hash %promote, and add %employee<name> as the key, and all of %employee as the value
04:05 Herby_ if that makes sense
04:07 Herby_ how do I do that? haven't had much luck
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04:11 MasterDuke m: my %employee = name => 'hank', age => 40, sex => 'male'; my %promote; %promote{%employee<name>} = %employee; dd %promote
04:11 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Hash %promote = {:hank(${:age(40), :name("hank"), :sex("male")})}␤»
04:11 p3rln00b m: my %employee = name=>'hank', age=>40, sex=>'male'; my %promote = %employee<name> => %employee; dd %promote
04:11 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Hash %promote = {:hank(${:age(40), :name("hank"), :sex("male")})}␤»
04:12 * p3rln00b is too slow
04:12 MasterDuke Herby_: ^^^ are those two examples what you mean?
04:12 p3rln00b Sounds like you should be using classes rather than messing about with hashes :)
04:13 Herby_ thanks MasterDuke, p3rln00b
04:13 Herby_ i should probably try to learn classes.
04:18 Herby_ MasterDuke: just tried it out, that works! thanks
04:20 Herby_ m: my %employee = name => 'hank', age => 40, sex => 'male'; my %promote; %promote{%employee<name>} = %employee;
04:20 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: ( no output )
04:20 Herby_ m: my %employee = name => 'hank', age => 40, sex => 'male'; my %promote; %promote{%employee<name>} = %employee; dd %promote
04:20 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Hash %promote = {:hank(${:age(40), :name("hank"), :sex("male")})}␤»
04:20 Herby_ m: my %employee = name => 'hank', age => 40, sex => 'male'; my %promote; %promote<%employee<name>> = %employee; dd %promote
04:20 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Hash %promote = {"\%employee<name>" => ${:age(40), :name("hank"), :sex("male")}}␤»
04:20 Herby_ it doesnt like the <> versus the {}?
04:21 MasterDuke <> is for literals
04:21 Herby_ ahh
04:21 Herby_ learn something new every day
04:21 MasterDuke it's like %hash{'$thing'}
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04:23 p3rln00b it's like %hash{<...>}; that is %hash<foo bar> is like %hash{<foo bar>} is like my @keys = <foo bar>; %hash{@keys}; that is, <...> syntax is a white-space-separated list and you can get a slice rather than a single value with it.
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04:23 p3rln00b m: my %employee = name=>'hank', age=>40, sex=>'male'; dd %employee<name age sex>
04:23 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«("hank", 40, "male")␤»
04:24 p3rln00b m: my %employee = name=>'p3rln00b', age=>17, sex=>'yes, please'; dd %employee<name age sex>
04:24 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«("p3rln00b", 17, "yes, please")␤»
04:24 * p3rln00b snickers
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04:25 Derperperd hello people!
04:25 p3rln00b \o
04:25 Herby_ o/
04:27 Derperperd I’m thinking about trying out perl 6. i’ve dabbled in perl for a little and like it. is perl 6 production ready?
04:27 p3rln00b Derperperd: "production ready" means different things to different people :)
04:28 Derperperd p3rln00b: thats true. I’m basically asking if it’s reliable, fast, and stable
04:29 Derperperd or if there any major changes coming to perl 6 that will overhaul major components of the language
04:29 seatek Herby_, here is how you might use a class instead
04:29 seatek class Employee{ has $.name; has $.age; has $.sex; method promote() { say "Yay!" }} ; my $employee = Employee.new(name => 'Hank', age => 40, sex => 'male'); $employee.promote;
04:30 p3rln00b Derperperd: the spec has been deemed production ready and released Dec, 2015. The compiler, on the other hand, still has bugs (as our 1400-bug bug queue testifies). It's also not as fast as other similar products. The main concern would be memory leaks, so I'd avoid using it for any long running programs. So Web-app area is definitely out IMO. Bug as far as writing programs and having them still work 2-3 years
04:30 p3rln00b in the future, that should be guaranteed.
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04:31 p3rln00b s/Bug as far/But as far/ :)
04:31 Derperperd awesome that’s really what im looking for. the ability to write scripts in perl 6 and have them work after a couple of years of updates
04:32 seatek Derperperd, I've been putting it into some production stuff and haven't run into any issues yet -- but nothing long-running like P3rln00b mentioned
04:32 Derperperd good to hear seatek thanks
04:32 Derperperd can someone tell me what rakudo star is
04:32 seatek I've been having a lot of fun learning by converting old production stuff into Perl6
04:32 Herby_ seatek, thanks for the example!
04:32 p3rln00b Derperperd: a compiler with some (rather useless) modules and documentation.
04:33 Derperperd should i be using it?
04:33 p3rln00b Derperperd: sure. That's generally what people use to "get perl 6" as it comes with pre-built binaries for Windows/Mac. It also undergoes testing with modules to ensure they work.
04:33 seatek I've been using it
04:34 p3rln00b Derperperd: you can also build more recent compiler releases: http://rakudo.org/downloads/rakudo/
04:34 p3rln00b They get released monthly.
04:35 p3rln00b "rakudo" is the perl 6 compiler.
04:35 Derperperd ahh ok. just installed it! time to start playing with perl 6
04:35 seatek Herby_, sure thing :) hope it helps you see what sticking that into an Employee object might be better, because then you can write all kinds of methods, other than promote() ;)
04:36 p3rln00b \o/
04:36 [Coke] Trying to feed an :in into a run() - any examples?
04:38 Derperperd do you guys recommend using a .pl extension or .p6 extension
04:38 Derperperd is there a standard the community uses
04:38 p3rln00b Derperperd: I use .p6 to avoid confusion with Perl 5 scripts.
04:38 seatek [Coke] you mean like:    say '/tmp'; run('ls'):in
04:39 Herby_ any issue using .pm6? cause thats what I've been using...
04:39 Derperperd thats probably what im going to do p3rln00b
04:39 p3rln00b Herby_: for scripts? A bit confusing, since I'd expect that to be a Perl 6 *module*.
04:39 [Coke] seatek: no, like stdin, not like parameters.
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04:39 MasterDuke [Coke]: my $p = run(:out, :bin, 'ls'); run(:in($p.out), 'true')
04:39 Herby_ hmm ok, good point
04:40 [Coke] (I'd write yours as run(<ls /tmp>)
04:40 [Coke] MasterDuke: thanks. Looking for something that isn't the direct result of a run() to pass as input.
04:42 p3rln00b [Coke]: I'd think this would work, but it doesn't produce any output: my $p = run "echo", :in, :out; $p.in.put: "meow"; $p.in.close; say $p.out.slurp-rest;
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04:47 p3rln00b Oh, echo is a shell thing :P
04:50 [Coke] I can make the array of data I have the result of a run, will try that route.
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04:53 seatek [Coke], some reason you can't just read from $*IN -- or are you looking for some kind of way to make perl look like an "invisbile pipe" between 2 things coming from the system?
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04:55 [Coke] I'm not trying to -read- from in, I'm trying to generate an :in for the next thing in the pipe. Right, the latter.
04:55 [Coke] I rewrote my perl6 that fixed up the data to be used as the input as an awk script so I can run() it. I feel dirty. :)
04:57 seatek yeah that's the duct tape ;)
04:57 MasterDuke my $p = run "cat", :in, :out; $p.in.say("h"); $p.in.close; say $p.out.slurp-rest
04:59 [Coke] is there a way to dump a value from a Seq?
05:00 [Coke] ( I want to ignore the first line of an :out )
05:00 [Coke] oh, maybe don't call .lines first.
05:02 p3rln00b Oh, so my method actually works \o/
05:03 p3rln00b Dunno why it wasn't working when I tried to use perl6 -e 'say $*IN.get' instead of cat there
05:03 p3rln00b oh, 'cause I typed it all as one command and not proper way :P
05:04 AlexDaniel [Coke]: were you looking for an example like this one: https://docs.perl6.org/type/Proc ?
05:05 AlexDaniel I mean, second example on that page
05:06 dalek doc: 4c836a4 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Proc.pod6:
05:06 dalek doc: Add example of feeding Proc's STDIN from a string
05:06 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4c836a4f2c
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05:07 dalek doc: a47828f | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Proc.pod6:
05:07 dalek doc: Pod6 ne Markdown
05:07 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a47828ff22
05:09 * AlexDaniel hopes nobody is going to use 「run ‘ls’, :out」 in a real program
05:10 Herby_ i'm stumped
05:10 Herby_ brace your eyes for my ugly test code, but if someone could take a look: http://pastebin.com/fviAJ3yq
05:10 Herby_ that returns: {James => {DATE_TIME => 2016-10-01T02:00:00, NAME => Hank, TRANSFER_FORM => PCU, TRANSFER_TO => 2W}}
05:10 Herby_ and I dont know why
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05:11 Herby_ it should return: {James => {DATE_TIME => 2016-08-20T03:00:00, NAME => James, TRANSFER_FORM => 2E, TRANSFER_TO => ICU}}
05:13 Herby_ probably missing something obvious but i'm not seeing it
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05:17 p3rln00b Herby_: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/fb533e093a0084e3407e61643d509aa7
05:17 p3rln00b Herby_: you're assigning data, but then overwriting its value on the next loop iteration
05:17 p3rln00b You need a new %data per loop iteration
05:18 Herby_ hmm. how do it get overwritten if the criteria isnt met?
05:18 Herby_ how does it
05:18 Herby_ transfer_to eq 'icu'
05:18 AlexDaniel here I guess: %data = %($parser.get_line());
05:18 AlexDaniel but I still don't understand it really
05:18 Herby_ sorry, i meant how does that %data line make it into %icu_transfers if it doesnt meet the criteria
05:19 p3rln00b m: my %data = <moo meow>; my %foo = foo => %data; dd %foo; %data = <lulz fail>; dd %foo
05:19 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Hash %foo = {:foo(${:moo("meow")})}␤Hash %foo = {:foo(${:lulz("fail")})}␤»
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05:19 p3rln00b Herby_: it doesn't. You're assigning the %data object into icu, but on *each* iteration of the loop you're modifying the contents of %data
05:19 Herby_ ahh
05:19 Herby_ ahhhhh
05:19 Herby_ ok
05:20 Herby_ that makes perfect sense
05:20 AlexDaniel another way of fixing that is to use := I guess?
05:20 AlexDaniel %data := %($parser.get_line());
05:21 AlexDaniel … which is actually a bit stupid…
05:21 AlexDaniel but it works
05:21 Herby_ just tried it, and it doesn
05:21 Herby_ does
05:21 Herby_ thanks.
05:21 AlexDaniel and here's a solution that is even more stupid
05:22 AlexDaniel %icu_transfers{%data<NAME>} = %@%data
05:22 AlexDaniel which basically gives you a copy
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05:23 AlexDaniel anyway, using my %data is of course the right solution
05:24 Herby_ %@% is new to me
05:25 p3rln00b it's %@ tacked onto %data; %@ is just two coercers % and @ that coerce to list (@) and then back to hash again (%)
05:25 AlexDaniel m: my %h = a => 42, b => 29; say (%h).perl; say (@%h).perl; say (%@%h).perl; say (@%@%h).perl
05:25 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«{:a(42), :b(29)}␤(:a(42), :b(29))␤{:a(42), :b(29)}␤(:a(42), :b(29))␤»
05:25 p3rln00b m: my %data = <foo bar>; my %other-data = %%data; %data = <meow mer>; dd %other-data
05:25 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Hash %other-data = {:foo("bar")}␤»
05:26 p3rln00b .oO( doesn't seem to be a need for intermediary @)
05:26 p3rln00b m: my %data = <foo bar>; my %other-data = foo => %%data; %data = <meow mer>; dd %other-data
05:26 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Hash %other-data = {:foo(${:meow("mer")})}␤»
05:26 p3rln00b There is. Just was bad test :)
05:27 p3rln00b m: my %data = <foo bar>; my %other-data = foo => %data.clone; %data = <meow mer>; dd %other-data
05:27 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Hash %other-data = {:foo(${:foo("bar")})}␤»
05:27 AlexDaniel oh, there's .clone??
05:27 seatek can you include more than 1 directory at a time with "use lib" in p6?
05:27 p3rln00b seatek: yes, it just takes a list
05:27 p3rln00b seatek: use lib 'foo', 'bar'; or use lib <foo bar>; etc
05:28 seatek p3rln00b oo that's much nicer :)
05:28 seatek p3rln00b++ :)
05:28 p3rln00b \o/
05:28 seatek i was off in qw/ / land ;)
05:29 p3rln00b <...> is the Perl 6's qw/ /
05:29 AlexDaniel m: class Point { has $.x; has $.y }; my $x = Point(:10x :20y); say $x.clone
05:29 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Cannot coerce to Point with named arguments␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
05:29 p3rln00b AlexDaniel: there is, but it doesn't work on everything
05:29 p3rln00b (yet)
05:29 p3rln00b m: my @a = ^10; dd @a.clone
05:29 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Array @a = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]␤»
05:29 AlexDaniel m: class Point { has $.x; has $.y }; my $x = Point.new(:10x :20y); say $x.clone
05:29 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Point.new(x => 10, y => 20)␤»
05:29 p3rln00b m: my @a = ^10; my @b =  @a.clone; @a = 'a' ..'c'; dd @b
05:29 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Array @b = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]␤»
05:29 AlexDaniel works on custom classes :o
05:29 p3rln00b oh
05:30 p3rln00b Well, pretty sure it's still broken on arrays.
05:30 p3rln00b Yeah, it's provided by Mu
05:30 p3rln00b s: Mu, 'clone'
05:30 SourceBaby p3rln00b, Something's wrong: ␤ERR: Cannot resolve caller sourcery(Mu, Str); none of these signatures match:␤    ($thing, Str:D $method, Capture $c)␤    ($thing, Str:D $method)␤    (&code)␤    (&code, Capture $c)␤  in block <unit> at -e line 6␤␤
05:30 p3rln00b s: Any, 'clone'
05:30 SourceBaby p3rln00b, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/6977b87/src/core/Mu.pm#L611
05:31 p3rln00b Ah, right, it clones arrays but not iterators, so array cloning still needs fixing
05:32 p3rln00b m: my @a = [2, 4, 6];  my $b = @a.clone; @a.push: 8; dd $b
05:32 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Array $b = $[2, 4, 6, 8]␤»
05:34 Herby_ off to bed, thanks for the help
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05:34 p3rln00b Any time.
05:36 AlexDaniel m: my @a = [2, 4, 6]; say @a.WHAT; say @a.list.WHAT; say @a.list.^name
05:36 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«(Array)␤(Array)␤Array␤»
05:36 cyphase joined #perl6
05:38 AlexDaniel so the only way to clone an array right now is to use @a[*] ?
05:39 moritz or [@a]
05:39 moritz or my @ = @a
05:39 AlexDaniel right
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05:47 seatek If people want database tests, it should be up to them to make sure the tests are run against their test databases. Am I right?? ;)
05:48 seatek I take the silence to mean perfect agreement by all. :)
05:50 dalek doc/spellcheck: 07a6217 | coke++ | doc/ (5 files):
05:50 dalek doc/spellcheck: fix typos
05:50 dalek doc/spellcheck: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/07a6217a93
05:50 dalek doc/spellcheck: 3a1149b | coke++ | xt/ (2 files):
05:50 dalek doc/spellcheck: Add first pass at automated spellchecker.
05:50 dalek doc/spellcheck: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3a1149bd58
05:51 dalek doc: 07a6217 | coke++ | doc/ (5 files):
05:51 dalek doc: fix typos
05:51 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/07a6217a93
05:52 seatek file has $so-many spelling errors -- nice :)
05:53 [Coke] Surprisingly, some things actually pass.
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05:55 seatek All I've been doing the last 3 days is writing tests. I'm wondering if this will make for a jaded view of P6
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05:57 dalek doc/spellcheck: ed497a2 | coke++ | xt/aspell.t:
05:57 dalek doc/spellcheck: remove trailing whitespace
05:57 dalek doc/spellcheck: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ed497a2a35
06:01 dalek doc/spellcheck: de6ab14 | coke++ | xt/aspell.t:
06:01 dalek doc/spellcheck: fail nicely without aspell
06:01 dalek doc/spellcheck: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/de6ab14537
06:01 dalek doc/spellcheck: f70c826 | coke++ | xt/aspell.t:
06:01 dalek doc/spellcheck: remove now-unused debug var
06:01 dalek doc/spellcheck: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f70c8260b3
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06:07 dalek doc/spellcheck: 7563e0c | coke++ | xt/aspell.t:
06:07 dalek doc/spellcheck: DRY, simplify
06:07 dalek doc/spellcheck: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7563e0c8c4
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06:10 travis-ci Doc build passed. Will "Coke" Coleda 'Add first pass at automated spellchecker.'
06:10 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/166156552 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/07a6217a937e^...3a1149bd58fb
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06:11 [Coke] nite, #perl6
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06:16 travis-ci Doc build passed. Will "Coke" Coleda 'remove trailing whitespace'
06:16 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/166157056 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/3a1149bd58fb...ed497a2a3506
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06:20 travis-ci Doc build passed. Will "Coke" Coleda 'remove now-unused debug var'
06:20 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/166157484 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/ed497a2a3506...f70c8260b378
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06:26 titsuki Hi #perl6. I have a question.
06:27 titsuki What's the difference between .trans with :d and .trans without :d ?
06:27 titsuki m: my $str = "abcdabcd"; $str.trans(:d, "ab" => "").say; $str.say;
06:27 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«cdcd␤abcdabcd␤»
06:27 titsuki m: my $str = "abcdabcd"; $str.trans("ab" => "").say; $str.say;
06:27 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«cdcd␤abcdabcd␤»
06:27 titsuki It seems equivalent to me.
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06:31 travis-ci Doc build passed. Will "Coke" Coleda 'DRY, simplify'
06:31 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/166157886 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/f70c8260b378...7563e0c8c488
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06:38 st_iron good morning friends
06:43 skids m: m: my $str = "abcdabcd"; $str.trans(:d, "ab" => "A").say; $str.say;
06:43 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«AcdAcd␤abcdabcd␤»
06:43 skids m: m: my $str = "abcdabcd"; $str.trans("ab" => "A").say; $str.say;
06:43 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«AAcdAAcd␤abcdabcd␤»
06:43 skids titsuki: ^^
06:45 titsuki m: my $str = "abcdabcd"; $str.trans(:d, "ab" => "AA").say; $str.say;
06:45 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«AAcdAAcd␤abcdabcd␤»
06:46 titsuki skids: Thanks ! I understand the difference.
06:46 skids np
06:47 skids doc example could be improved, I guess.
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06:56 grondilu Hello #perl6.  I have a silly question.
06:58 skids hrm.  Something seems off here:
06:58 skids m: my $str = "abcdabcd"; $str.trans("abc" => "AB").say; $str.say;
06:58 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«ABAdABAd␤abcdabcd␤»
06:59 skids m: my $str = "abcdabcd"; $str.trans("abc" => ("A","B")).say; $str.say;
06:59 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«ABBdABBd␤abcdabcd␤»
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06:59 FROGGS o/
06:59 grondilu is the semantics for those even defined?
07:02 skids Hrm I wonder if I should make this a new RT or just add this to RT#129172
07:02 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=129172
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07:18 titsuki m: subset Even of Int where * % 2 == 0; my Even $a = 2;
07:18 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: ( no output )
07:18 titsuki m: subset Even of Int where * % 2 == 0; my Even $a = 3;
07:18 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $a; expected Even but got Int (3)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
07:19 titsuki grondilu: Does it answer your question ?
07:21 p3rln00b .oO( there wasn't a question? )
07:21 p3rln00b m: subset Even of Int where * %% 2; my Even $a = 2;
07:21 camelia rakudo-moar 6977b8: ( no output )
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07:26 grondilu there was no question after all.  Changed my mind.  Too embarassed to ask.
07:27 p3rln00b heh
07:34 titsuki I see. Please forget my answer...
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07:54 raydiak \o
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14:10 * moritz re-posts https://gist.github.com/moritz/2930131695511e6b5ec63d90e4ce9e7b in case folks have missed it yesterday night
14:10 Juerd Thanks for being crazy
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14:19 psch ++moritz
14:20 psch don't think i have the writing skills and dedication, and [ptc] is probably a better editor as well :)
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14:24 timotimo titsuki: did you know we have a %% operator that puts % and == 0 into one? :)
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14:25 Zoffix moritz, I'd be interested in being a co-author. I self-published three (crappy) books: http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/zofdesign so at least I have the stamina for writing 'till my fingers bleed :)
14:26 titsuki timotimo: I learned it today :)
14:26 timotimo cool :)
14:26 timotimo oh!
14:26 timotimo perlnoob already showed that
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14:29 Zoffix moritz, free epubs/pdfs if you wanna take a look: http://temp.perl6.party/books/
14:29 Zoffix Mind Power one is a bit nutty... I wrote it when I was 23... still young and dumb :P
14:30 moritz Zoffix: wow, I'd love to have you as a co-author, I really like your writing style
14:30 Zoffix \o/
14:36 moritz Zoffix: do you have thoughts yet on the style and content/scope of the book?
14:43 Zoffix moritz, at the back of my mind for a bit now, I was thinking of 'Essentials of Perl 6' or something like that. Something that isn't 1000 pages long and doesn't list every feature, but rather would make beginners comfortable with the language enough to write simple programs and be comfortable to learn harder ones on their own from docs, for example.
14:44 timotimo maybe we also want a little booklet "learning to read perl6"
14:44 timotimo what with operators and metaoperators and everything making things a little complex sometimes
14:45 timotimo and different kinds of method calls and hyper method calls and all that
14:45 psch i think that's the most interesting bits
14:45 psch like, a detailed and explained "long form <=> short form"
14:45 psch list
14:46 timotimo and maybe also examples of things put together?
14:47 moritz Zoffix: sounds good
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15:02 lucs Can a class supply a sub (as opposed to a method)?
15:02 lucs m: class Meh { sub foo { say "FOO" } } ; Meh::foo;
15:02 camelia rakudo-moar 228cbc: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&foo'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
15:02 psch m: class Meh { our sub foo { say "FOO" } } ; Meh::foo;
15:02 camelia rakudo-moar 228cbc: OUTPUT«FOO␤»
15:02 moritz lucs: our sub foo
15:02 lucs Aha, thanks.
15:03 moritz though a class can also supply static methods
15:03 lucs moritz: How would that go?
15:03 moritz m: class Meh { method d'oh { say "FOO" } }; Meh.d'oh
15:03 camelia rakudo-moar 228cbc: OUTPUT«FOO␤»
15:03 psch any method that doesn't use Attributes or self can be invoked on the type object
15:03 moritz lucs: it's a normal method that doesn't use any attributes
15:04 * moritz too slow today
15:04 psch you can be explicit about it with the :U smiley on the invocant
15:04 lucs Nice.
15:04 psch m: class C { method f(C:U:) { say "only type object!" } }; say C.f(); try C.new.f(); say $!
15:04 camelia rakudo-moar 228cbc: OUTPUT«only type object!␤True␤Invocant requires a type object of type C, but an object instance was passed.  Did you forget a 'multi'?␤  in method f at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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15:05 Zoffix m: class Meh { sub foo is export { say "FOO" } } ; import Meh; foo # another way, depending on what the purpose is
15:05 camelia rakudo-moar 228cbc: OUTPUT«FOO␤»
15:06 Zoffix like exporting custom ops that work on your object
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15:24 cowens Okay, I don't want to be an asshole about this, so you can tell me to shut up about it and I will.  But I saw discussion on #perl6-dev (not sure how to or if I am even allowed to join that channel) about my issues with the Str type being stored as NFC and I wanted a chance to clarify some points
15:25 psch cowens: i'm pretty sure you're allowed to join
15:25 psch cowens: actually i think whatever you're about to say probably should go there in the first place :)
15:25 cowens do I just do a slash join or something, I am not an IRC user
15:25 psch cowens: as for "how", your client probably supports '/join #perl6-dev'
15:26 cowens thanks
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15:38 Herby_ o/
15:38 Zoffix \o
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16:09 lucasb I should probably read that whole reddit thread and the irc logs to understand what is being discussed
16:09 lucasb I lived in a ASCII-only world until I became aware of the existence of Perl 6
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17:42 dalek ecosystem: 8f9e980 | (Tom Browder)++ | META.list:
17:42 dalek ecosystem: update version
17:42 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/8f9e9806c3
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18:13 [Coke] how to folks feel about forcing parentheses instead of parens in the docs?
18:13 [Coke] Ah, it's only in 20 places. easy peasy
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18:17 DrForr Woot, basic Template::Toolkit compiler is working.
18:17 dalek doc: 15346a5 | coke++ | doc/ (11 files):
18:17 dalek doc: use full word.
18:17 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/15346a5067
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18:25 dalek doc: c83fe47 | coke++ | doc/Language/ (2 files):
18:25 dalek doc: standardize on regexes
18:25 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c83fe47aab
18:26 dalek whateverable: 788e58d | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | build.p6:
18:26 dalek whateverable: Building stuff in parallel does not work at all
18:26 dalek whateverable:
18:26 dalek whateverable: We've been using non-parallel version of this script for a while now.
18:26 dalek whateverable: Instead, we just run this script several times on different ranges.
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18:28 AlexDaniel [Coke]: actually, can't see what was wrong with “parens”, but whatever :)
18:29 dalek doc/spellcheck: fce8a7e | coke++ | xt/aspell.t:
18:29 dalek doc/spellcheck: Allow filenames passed in to test on CL
18:29 dalek doc/spellcheck: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fce8a7ef8a
18:29 dalek doc/spellcheck: d48c817 | coke++ | doc/ (11 files):
18:29 dalek doc/spellcheck: use full word.
18:29 dalek doc/spellcheck: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d48c817213
18:29 dalek doc/spellcheck: 73f12fc | coke++ | doc/Language/ (2 files):
18:29 dalek doc/spellcheck: standardize on regexes
18:29 dalek doc/spellcheck: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/73f12fc7e9
18:29 dalek doc/spellcheck: acd6e70 | coke++ | xt/.aspell.pws:
18:29 dalek doc/spellcheck: ignore more words
18:29 dalek doc/spellcheck: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/acd6e7082b
18:32 lucasb AlexDaniel: "parens" if for "parentheses" what "sup" is for "what's up" :)
18:32 lucasb *is
18:33 moritz sup, any parens around? :-)
18:34 AlexDaniel lucasb: except that when you type “parens” in google it defines “paren” as “a round bracket” without any issues. I do understand that it is rather new, but looks like dictionaries are catching up
18:35 AlexDaniel I don't see this happening with “sup”
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18:36 geekosaur "parens" has been a standard abbreviation in programming since at least when I first got started programming (call it 1985)
18:37 lucasb AlexDaniel: indeed, you're right. I didn't know it was an accepted spelling of the word. but at least wiktionary add a note "(informal)" besides the word "paren"
18:41 AlexDaniel and actually, I'd much rather change “parentheses” to “parens” everywhere, but it's probably not worth the bikeshedding
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19:00 DrForr msg RabidGravy Basic stash access works, going to add refinements in two axes over the evening, maybe 3.
19:01 DrForr yoleaux: tell RabidGravy Basic stash access works, going to add refinements in two axes over the evening, maybe 3.
19:02 RabidGravy cool
19:02 DrForr Oh, hi..
19:02 geekosaur 0 for 2 so for the best (two missing command chars :)
19:02 RabidGravy I'm just doing actual real TT stuff for a technical test for a contract
19:03 DrForr AH.
19:03 DrForr *Ah
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19:16 dalek ecosystem: 048c6a3 | (Tom Browder)++ | META.list:
19:16 dalek ecosystem: update to use version 0.1.4
19:16 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/048c6a3984
19:36 seatek mmm. labster
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19:43 seatek on a scale of (naughty .. pure_evil) : creating database tables if they don't already exist, during unit tests for application modules.
19:43 seatek ?
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20:15 moritz acceptable
20:15 moritz at $work, we run unit test with in-memory sqlite DBs
20:16 moritz and create the schema in there for each test new
20:17 arnsholt Sounds reasonable to me
20:18 arnsholt Either in a setUp method (if you're doing JUnit style testing), or making sure to create them first as an orchestration step in a TAP-style framework
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20:24 seatek awesome - I just threw them into the class CRUD tests for the tables... using PostgreSQL's  CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS table_name ( id SERIAL PRIMARY KEY... blah blah)
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20:30 dalek whateverable: f2f7d28 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | t/bisectable.t:
20:30 dalek whateverable: Fix faulty test
20:30 dalek whateverable:
20:30 dalek whateverable: According to the logs, this test was based on bisection that failed to
20:30 dalek whateverable: extract some builds properly.
20:30 dalek whateverable: Not sure how I was able to pass it again several times (things used
20:30 dalek whateverable: to flap, so perhaps it explains it).
20:30 dalek whateverable:
20:30 dalek whateverable: Anyway, current version is right.
20:30 dalek whateverable: review: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/commit/f2f7d2866e
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20:37 AlexDaniel hey all
20:37 AlexDaniel comtimtable6: 2014.01 say 'hello world'
20:37 committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦«2014.01»: hello world
20:39 AlexDaniel basically, that's the first release of rakudo on moar
20:39 AlexDaniel not sure why would anybody need to run stuff on it, but hey… :)
20:45 AlexDaniel for the love of all that is good and decent, don't try to bisect stuff between 2014 releases :D
20:45 AlexDaniel (that's what's going to happen: https://gist.github.com/Whateverable/472a986b014039c70ec97bd74b70d94f )
20:46 AlexDaniel basically it will say that it's one of the commits between two tags
20:46 DrForr Is there any sort of convention for classes you need to share across two driver classes, but don't really want to expose to the outside world?
20:47 [Coke] comtimtable6 ?
20:47 geekosaur the bots edit correct their names
20:47 moritz DrForr: make it a role. Document it to be private
20:47 lizmat DrForr: the only thing I can think of is something like Rakudo::Internals
20:47 lizmat aka, have a name indicating privateness
20:47 lizmat and what moritz said  :-)
20:48 DrForr Roles really aren't appropriate here, I'll go with Internals.
20:48 AlexDaniel [Coke]: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/issues/39 :)
20:48 DrForr Also https://github.com/drforr/perl6-Template-Toolkit is out and minimally working.
20:49 [Coke] DrForr++
20:49 DrForr Yes, there's Template6, but this is a direct replacement for TT from Perl 5, down to the grammar.
20:49 RabidGravy cool, will look in the morning, I'm a bit softwared out tooday
20:51 DrForr Minimal in the sense that it'll interpolate [% foo %} and [% format("hello",2) %]. I'm adding a precompilation layer right now that'll let me do [% IF 1 %]stuff[% END %] but that may not get done tonight.
20:53 RabidGravy The first real feature that people will want will be the [% FOREACH foo IN bars %].... I guess
20:53 RabidGravy I would anyway
20:53 DrForr Yeah.
20:53 DrForr ANd [% INCLUDE %]
20:56 tadzik I use PROCESS a lot in my stuff
20:57 DrForr Patience, padawan.
20:57 tadzik (probably not too surprising :P)
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21:01 RabidGravy I just realised this technical test I just did was the most Perl 5 I have written since 2014
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21:02 DrForr Was it one of those "Implement a small spreadsheet" or "Here's a simple card game. Write a program that plays a hand."?
21:03 DrForr I got several of those when I was doing the rounds in the UK.
21:03 RabidGravy I did a card game for some other gig the other day
21:03 RabidGravy this was for a fashion retailer, it played to their interests shall we say
21:04 DrForr A... fashion retailer. With an address somewhere near Westfield by chance? :)
21:04 RabidGravy aye
21:05 DrForr Talk to either of the Daves. Their front-door HR is completely off the nut, in order to get a decent shot you need to talk to people on the inside.
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21:12 RabidGravy I think I'll at least get to third base
21:13 * BenGoldberg is looking at Template::Toolkit, specifically the comment about EVAL_PERL being unused... considering that we've got both v5 and Inline::Perl5 ... I don't think that option is actually pointless.
21:15 DrForr Evaluating Perl5 code is fine. Code that mucks with the Template Toolkit stash isn't.
21:15 dalek ecosystem: 026c28c | (Tom Browder)++ | META.list:
21:15 dalek ecosystem: add auth back into module file for ecosystem use
21:15 dalek ecosystem:
21:15 dalek ecosystem: seems like ecosystem uses author from auth tag (not META6.json) on module (which one if multiple modules?), but version from META6.json--weird!
21:15 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/026c28c7b6
21:18 DrForr I think I also added a note somewhere that I simply didn't want to add Inline::Perl5 as a dependency; also it might be a good test for plugin authors, if I have any eventually :)
21:18 BenGoldberg I guess that makes sense...
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21:20 DrForr The catch there is that I don't intend to make the P6 internals the same as P5. Can't be done simply, and I don't want to tie myself to one particular plugin architecture.
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21:33 Hotkeys is there any sort of like
21:33 Hotkeys p6 syntax highlighting stress test
21:35 AlexDaniel by stress test you mean what exactly?
21:35 AlexDaniel lots of nested things?
21:36 AlexDaniel or do you just want a file that uses various p6 features that most highlighters can't figure out?
21:36 Hotkeys just things that might trip up a syntax highlighters
21:36 Hotkeys yeah
21:36 Hotkeys just curious if something like that exists already
21:38 DrForr Hotkeys: drforr/perl6-Perl6-Tidy on GH (not in the ecosystem yet) has t/rosetta-* which has a bunch of code that tripped up my test suites. Not the most thorough, but it does save you from retyping.
21:38 Hotkeys cool thanks I'll take a peek
21:39 AlexDaniel Hotkeys: why are you asking btw? For example, I can send you a file that I bet most p6 syntax highlighters will get wrong
21:39 DrForr Also [% IF 1 %]stuff[% END %] now works due to a separate compiler pass I just added, so I'll have a place to hang [% FOREACH... %] tags. The grammar actually lets me do [% e = IF 1 ; foo ; ELSE %]blah[% END %] but I'm nowhere near there yet.
21:40 Hotkeys I want to write a highlighting thing for perl6 for highlight.js (and then maybe try and get the discord team to include it)
21:40 Hotkeys just wanted something to test it against
21:41 Hotkeys (I know there's syntax highlighting files for p6 for other editors/etc and I'll use those for reference too)
21:42 dalek ecosystem/readme.install: 0a2eca4 | (Tom Browder)++ | README.install-template.md:
21:42 dalek ecosystem/readme.install: add a template file
21:42 dalek ecosystem/readme.install: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/0a2eca4b32
21:43 Hotkeys I use discord a lot and am always sad when I can't use the code highlighting in code blocks for p6 to make it all pretty
21:43 Hotkeys so I figured I might as well try and get it going myself and bug them to include it (it seems they use highlight.js)
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21:53 seatek I forgot what I was doing, and there are too many things to choose from.
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21:56 RabidGravy I forget what I am doing all the time.  Then I just start a new module.
21:58 DrForr Yarg, I just noticed that OSCON London updated my talk with text from some *other* talk I proposed to OSCON USA. At least the rollover text on the schedule grid where everyone will be looking is right.
21:59 RabidGravy when are you over for oscon?
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22:11 seatek sub & method signatures become etched in stone at compile time, don't they? that is, you can't use a variable program block to (re)define them during program execution, yes?
22:12 RabidGravy yeah, unless of course you make the routine at run time
22:15 BenGoldberg m: my &foo; sub bar { say foo(42) }; &foo := sub ($baz) { return $baz + 1 }; bar();
22:15 camelia rakudo-moar 13f479: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3; &foo := sub ($baz) { return $baz + 1 }7⏏5; bar();␤»
22:15 BenGoldberg m: my &foo; sub bar { say foo(42) }; &foo = sub ($baz) { return $baz + 1 }; bar();
22:15 camelia rakudo-moar 13f479: OUTPUT«43␤»
22:16 BenGoldberg m: sub foo {...}; sub bar { say foo(42) }; &foo = sub ($baz) { return $baz + 1 }; bar();
22:16 camelia rakudo-moar 13f479: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling foo(Int) will never work with declared signature ()␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub foo {...}; sub bar { say 7⏏5foo(42) }; &foo = sub ($baz) { return $b␤»
22:16 BenGoldberg m: sub foo($) {...}; sub bar { say foo(42) }; &foo = sub ($baz) { return $baz + 1 }; bar();
22:16 camelia rakudo-moar 13f479: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Sub␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
22:16 BenGoldberg m: sub foo($) {...}; sub bar { say foo(42) }; sub foo ($baz) { return $baz + 1 }; bar();
22:16 camelia rakudo-moar 13f479: OUTPUT«43␤»
22:17 BenGoldberg m: sub foo(@_) {...}; sub bar { say foo(42) }; sub foo ($baz) { return $baz + 1 }; bar();
22:17 camelia rakudo-moar 13f479: OUTPUT«43␤»
22:19 seatek yeah, i've got named parameter signatures with where clauses that would be nice to be able to generate on the fly... looking at routines for that
22:20 seatek or i could just use a damn hash ;)
22:21 seatek i like the cadillac with the electric windows though :)
22:26 Util m: constant @m = <Jan Feb>; state    %m_n = @m Z=> 1..2; say %m_n<Feb>;
22:26 camelia rakudo-moar 13f479: OUTPUT«2␤»
22:26 Util m: constant @m = <Jan Feb>; constant %m_n = @m Z=> 1..2; say %m_n<Feb>;
22:26 camelia rakudo-moar 13f479: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Type check failed in constant declaration of %m_n; expected Associative but got Seq (Seq)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3= <Jan Feb>; constant %m_n = @m Z=> 1..27⏏5; say %m_n<Feb>;␤»
22:26 Util ???
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22:27 p3rln00b m: constant @m = @(<Jan Feb>); constant %m_n = %(@m Z=> 1..2); say %m_n<Feb>;
22:27 camelia rakudo-moar 13f479: OUTPUT«2␤»
22:28 dalek ecosystem: e78aa04 | (Tom Browder)++ | META.list:
22:28 dalek ecosystem: adding all valid versions (with good links to tarballs0
22:28 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/e78aa0402a
22:28 Util p3rln00b: thanks!
22:28 p3rln00b https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=111944#ticket-history
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22:39 tbrowder .tell  Zoffix there is a PR in ecosystem for an installation template for review
22:39 yoleaux tbrowder: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
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