Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-10-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:24 skink If I've got a CStruct, and the data for it read as an Array[uint8], is there an easy way to insert the values, i.e. not having to parse them out one-by-one?
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01:48 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:12 shin_ Hi all.... what should i do when i get errors of type "expected Positional but got Array"  ?
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02:55 shin_ m: sub test-this-list(Int @foo) { ... }; my @bar; push @bar, 1; test-this-list(@bar)
02:55 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding to @foo; expected Positional[Int] but got Array ($[1])␤  in sub test-this-list at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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03:08 flexibeast https://docs.perl6.org/language/traps#Typed_Array_parameters
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05:04 seatek moments of pure love
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06:34 seatek m: class BASE { has $.x is rw; has $.y is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!y) { $!y = 9 }}; class BASE::Hi is BASE { has $.z }; my $c = BASE::Hi.new(x => 42, z => 24); say $c.x;
06:34 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
06:35 seatek So, if you use a submethod BUILD in a parent class... do you have to manually assign all attributes passed to new() in all child BUILD submethods?
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06:47 seatek m: class B { has $.x is rw; has $.y is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!y){} }; class CB is B { has $.z is rw }; my $m = CB.new(x => 3); say $m.x;
06:47 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
06:47 seatek m: class B { has $.x is rw; has $.y is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!x, :$!y){} }; class CB is B { has $.z is rw }; my $m = CB.new(x => 3); say $m.x;
06:47 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«3␤»
06:48 seatek m: class B { has $.x is rw; has $.y is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!y){} }; class CB is B { has $.z is rw }; my $m = CB.new(z => 3); say $m.z;
06:48 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«3␤»
06:48 seatek m: class B { has $.x is rw; has $.y is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!y){} }; class CB is B { has $.z is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!x){}}; my $m = CB.new(x => 3); say $m.x;
06:48 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Attribute $!x not declared in class CB␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3 has $.z is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!x){}}7⏏5; my $m = CB.new(x => 3); say $m.x;␤    expecting any of:␤        horizontal whitespace␤ …»
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06:51 seatek so attributes also have to be redeclared in the child classes in order to be able to assign to them if you're using BUILD?
06:51 seatek m: class B { has $.x is rw; has $.y is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!y){} }; class CB is B { has $.z is rw; submethod BUILD(:$.x){}}; my $m = CB.new(x => 3); say $m.x;
06:51 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Virtual method call $.x may not be used on partially constructed object (maybe you mean $!x for direct attribute access here?)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3 B { has $.z is rw; submethod BUILD(:$.x7⏏5){}}; my…»
06:51 seatek m: class B { has $.x is rw; has $.y is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!y){} }; class CB is B { has $.x is rw; has $.z is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!x){}}; my $m = CB.new(x => 3); say $m.x;
06:51 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«3␤»
06:51 seatek bah
06:53 seatek it's an emotional rollercoaster
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08:33 ufobat my inline::perl5 doesn't build: https://nopaste.me/view/0deeb4b7 anyone has any advice for me?
08:35 * moritz hilight nine for ^^
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08:50 timotimo ufobat: *maximum shrug*, can you try --notest or --notests or what zef calls it? :)
08:53 seatek subset PosInt of Int where * > 0; class B { has PosInt $.x is rw; has $.y is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!y){} }; class CB is B { has $.z is rw; has PosInt $!x; submethod BUILD(:$!x){} }; my $m = CB.new; $m.y = 5; $m.z = 8;
08:53 seatek m: subset PosInt of Int where * > 0; class B { has PosInt $.x is rw; has $.y is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!y){} }; class CB is B { has $.z is rw; has PosInt $!x; submethod BUILD(:$!x){} }; my $m = CB.new; $m.y = 5; $m.z = 8;
08:53 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $!x; expected PosInt but got Any (Any)␤  in submethod BUILD at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
08:54 seatek m: subset PosInt of Int where * > 0; class B { has PosInt $.x is rw; has $.y is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!y){} }; class CB is B { has $.z is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!x){} }; my $m = CB.new; $m.y = 5; $m.z = 8;
08:54 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Attribute $!x not declared in class CB␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3has $.z is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!x){} }7⏏5; my $m = CB.new; $m.y = 5; $m.z = 8;␤    expecting any of:␤        horizontal whitespace…»
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08:56 seatek m: subset PosInt of Int where * > 0; class B { has PosInt $.x is rw; has $.y is rw; submethod BUILD(:$!y){} }; class CB is B { has $.z is rw; has PosInt $!x; submethod BUILD(:$!x?){} }; my $m = CB.new; $m.y = 5; $m.z = 8;
08:56 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $!x; expected PosInt but got Any (Any)␤  in submethod BUILD at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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08:57 seatek even if you make :$!x? optional in BUILD it still tries to assign a value to it, when you're not assigning anything to it?
08:58 timotimo same problem as when you have a "where" clause on an optional parameter
08:59 seatek timotimo, is there a way around this one that you know of?
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09:00 timotimo assign to $!x in the body of BUILD instead of in the signature
09:00 timotimo then you can actually check for undefined before trying the assignment
09:03 seatek i'm torn between having to go do something silly like that again in all child classes, or just making it an "unwritten rule" to never populate objects from the new() method
09:04 seatek it wouldn't be so bad if JUST the submethod BUILD in the parent class could be called, and then the rest of the children behaved like normal (not needing BUILD methods themselves)
09:06 timotimo oh, having a submethod BUILD will "poison" all subclasses?
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09:07 seatek if i have the base method have a submethod BUILD, it has to be done on all the ones inheriting from it too, if you want to be able to populate with new()
09:07 seatek if i'm remembering... i've tried so many variations at this point it's all a blur
09:10 seatek no that doesn't seem to be true after all
09:10 seatek hmm. could probably work something around like that
09:11 seatek thanks +timotimo
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10:20 [ptc] m: my %blah = '&zwj;'=> "<200d>"; %blah{'&zwj;'}.say
10:20 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«<200d>␤»
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10:23 [ptc] m: my %blah = '&zwj;'=> "‍"; %blah{'&zwj;'}.say
10:23 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Missing required term after infix␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my %blah = '&zwj;'=>7⏏5 "‍"; %blah{'&zwj;'}.say␤    expecting any of:␤        prefix␤        term␤»
10:30 [ptc] is it possible to enter unicode codepoints in strings?  I.e., my $blah = 'U+200D' or some such?
10:32 DrForr m:"\c[263a]"
10:32 DrForr m:say "\c[263a]"
10:33 DrForr m: say "\c[263a]"
10:33 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unrecognized \c character␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "\c[7⏏263a]"␤    expecting any of:␤        argument list␤        double quotes␤        term␤»
10:34 DrForr Grumble. Thought that was it.
10:35 jnthn \x
10:35 jnthn \c is when you want to name the char
10:35 jnthn m: say "\c[PILE OF POOP]"
10:35 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unrecognized character name PILE OF POOP␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "\c[PILE OF POOP7⏏5]"␤»
10:35 jnthn m: say "\c[PILE OF POO]"
10:35 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«💩␤»
10:35 DrForr Ah, right.
10:42 [ptc] DrForr, jnthn: thanks!
10:42 [ptc] m: my %blah = '&zwj;'=> \x"200D"; %blah{'&zwj;'}.say
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my %blah = '&zwj;'=> \x7⏏5"200D"; %blah{'&zwj;'}.say␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end…»
10:42 [ptc] m: my %blah = '&zwj;'=> "\x200D"; %blah{'&zwj;'}.say
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«‍␤»
10:45 [ptc] that's really handy.  Hrm, now where to put that info in the docs...
10:46 jnthn m: say "\x[65,66,67]
10:46 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "\x[65,66,67]7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        argument list␤        double quotes␤       …»
10:46 jnthn m: say "\x[65,66,67]"
10:46 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«efg␤»
10:46 jnthn Also that form is worth knowing/documenting
10:46 jnthn m: say "\c[PILE OF POO,BUTTERLY]"
10:46 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unrecognized character name BUTTERLY␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "\c[PILE OF POO,BUTTERLY7⏏5]"␤»
10:46 jnthn m: say "\c[PILE OF POO,BUTTERFLY]"
10:46 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«💩🦋␤»
10:47 u-ou cool
10:47 u-ou omg that's cool
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10:47 jnthn Heh, Utterly Butterly was some margerine-that-was-meant-to-taste-like-butter brand when I was a kid :P
10:48 u-ou m: say "\c[PILE OF POO]" x 16
10:48 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩␤»
10:50 grondilu hello, ever looked at http://doppiojvm.org/?  It's a JVM implementation in javascript.
10:50 grondilu I was wondering if that could be used to run perl6 in a browser.
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10:53 pmurias grondilu: with a huge slowdown
10:53 grondilu pmurias: yeah of course
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10:53 jkramer Ahoy!
10:54 jkramer m: my $x = try prompt('int: ').Int
10:54 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«int: »
10:54 jkramer m: my $x = try prompt('int: ').Int; say $x
10:54 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«int: (Any)␤»
10:54 jkramer Hrm
10:55 grondilu jkramer: I don't think it makes sense to use prompt with camelia
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10:55 jkramer Yeah :) Trying to demonstrate weird thing I'm having
10:56 jkramer m: my $x = Nil.Int; say $x.perl
10:56 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«Use of Nil in numeric context␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤0␤»
10:56 jkramer There you go
10:56 jkramer Why is $x = 0?
10:56 grondilu pmurias: but javascript will eventually be fast, with wasm and stuff.  So then it might make sense to just port VMs on it as a strategy to run perl6.
10:56 tbrowder hi #perl6
10:56 jkramer m: my $x = try Nil.Int; say $x.perl
10:56 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«Use of Nil in numeric context␤  in code  at <tmp> line 1␤0␤»
10:57 jkramer Compared to:
10:57 jkramer m: my $x = try 'asdasd'.Int; say $x.perl
10:57 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«Any␤»
10:57 jkramer Shouldn't Nil.Int be Any or Nil too?
10:58 jnthn Arguarly Nil, but in general <some type object>.Int will warn and give 0
10:58 jnthn m: say Str.Int
10:58 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«Invocant requires an instance of type Str, but a type object was passed.  Did you forget a .new?␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
10:58 jnthn o.O
10:58 tbrowder anyone interested in file read testing my test suite has had a major redo: <https://github.com/tbrowder/perl6-read-write-tests>
10:58 jnthn Apparently not general enough :P
10:58 jkramer :D
10:58 grondilu btw did you guys know wasm already has experimental support in chrome?  chrome://flags/#enable-webassembly
10:59 jkramer Was expecting it to throw an exception like it does for 'asdasd'.Int
10:59 jkramer So that I can put it in a try block and then get Nil/Any as result
10:59 pmurias grondilu: there is a gigantic gap between chrome supporting wasm and efficently running wasm on top of the JVM
11:01 grondilu I was more thinking JVM => js => wasm
11:02 pmurias what would the => arrows mean?
11:04 pmurias grondilu: the paper you posted is about compiling c++ to js (and supporting file system operations etc.), as an example of that at work they compile the JVM (written in C++ itself) to JS and run stuff on top of it
11:06 grondilu I'm confused, what paper?
11:07 grondilu oh I see
11:07 pmurias grondilu: the doppio one
11:10 grondilu pmurias: so yeah they compiled C++.  So?
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11:10 grondilu they still get a JVM running on the browser without java
11:11 grondilu hello, maybe their thing can compile MoarVM
11:11 jkramer It looks like .Int works as expected (for me) for everything but Nil. Nil does some special thing (print warning and return 0) while all other stuff that doesn't usually do .Int throws an exception and returns Any (with try)
11:12 grondilu *hell
11:12 jkramer http://dpaste.com/3CK0MHG
11:12 grondilu after all they write: "we extend Emscripten
11:12 grondilu with DOPPIO, letting it run an unmodified C++ application in
11:12 grondilu the browser with full functionality"
11:14 jkramer Wait, Cool seems to do the same thing. Mu however works as expected again
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11:16 pmurias grondilu: using their thing to compile MoarVM seems more efficent
11:16 pmurias as it's one less layer of indirection less
11:18 grondilu yeah but can it be done?  At least the JVM example exists.
11:21 grondilu btw why isn't MoarVM a separate project?
11:21 grondilu ^meh scrap that
11:24 pmurias grondilu: you could enounter some problems but it looks doable
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11:27 jkramer Why isn't there an operator like .? but instead of checking if the invocant .^can the method check if the invocant is defined and only then call the method? :)
11:27 jkramer Or is there?
11:31 grondilu jkramer: sounds hard to do without a macro or something.  Could be module-space.
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11:49 jkramer Can I augment methods in classes that already exist?
11:49 jkramer Package 'Cool' already has a method 'Int' (did you mean to declare a multi-method?)
11:50 jkramer Would using a multi-method do any good here? They'd have the same signatures I guess (0 arguments)
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11:50 grondilu you may want to use roles
11:51 grondilu m: role shouting { multi method gist($self:) { "$self !" } }; say 7 but shouting
11:51 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«7␤»
11:51 grondilu hum
11:52 grondilu m: role shouting { multi method gist { "{self}!" } }; say 7 but shouting
11:52 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«7!␤»
11:54 jkramer Nah, I actually want to override .Int globally in Cool :)
11:54 grondilu then use MONKEY-TYPING
11:54 jkramer Yeah that's what I'm doing, but I get that error I pasted above
11:55 grondilu you're using C<augment>?  I think there is a C<supersede>
11:55 grondilu m: use MONKEY-TYPING; supersede Cool {}
11:55 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed supersede␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3use MONKEY-TYPING; supersede Cool7⏏5 {}␤»
11:55 grondilu nah, my bad
11:56 jkramer m: use MONKEY-TYPING; supersede class Cool { method Int { say "wooooot" }}; Cool.Int
11:56 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot use 'supersede' with class declaration␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3use MONKEY-TYPING; supersede class Cool7⏏5 { method Int { say "wooooot" }}; Cool.I␤    expecting any of:␤        generic role␤»
11:57 grondilu supersede is specced in S12, though
11:58 jkramer Yeah, I can't find any documentation or examples for it, just one mention in the operators doc
11:58 grondilu no synopsis there indeed
11:58 grondilu do you *really* want to do that, though?
11:58 jkramer Nah, I actually want Cool and Nil to behave as I'd expect it without me having to hack them :)
12:00 grondilu it's NYI actually:
12:00 grondilu m: use MONKEY-TYPING; supersede method Cool::Int {}
12:00 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤"supersede" not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3EY-TYPING; supersede method Cool::Int {}7⏏5<EOL>␤»
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12:09 lizmat jkramer:  how about ".method with $object" ?
12:11 lizmat m: my Int $a = 42; say .Str with $a
12:11 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: OUTPUT«42␤»
12:11 lizmat m: my Int $a; say .Str with $a
12:11 camelia rakudo-moar 4fc17d: ( no output )
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12:20 jkramer lizmat: That's probably the nicer way to solve it :)
12:20 jkramer I still think the behavior of Cool and Nil is weird/unexpected and should be in line with the other types
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12:26 jkramer Is the behavior of .Int specified somewhere? Should I file a bug report/change request about it or would that be pointless?
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12:50 * grondilu tries to compile MoarVM with clang
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13:01 lizmat jkramer: in what context ?
13:02 lizmat I mean, .Int is a method like any other, so what's wrong with it ?
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13:23 jkramer lizmat: I posted some sample code somewhere above. Basically .Int dies/throws an exception whenever the invocant can't be converted to an Int in a sane way, which is what I'd expect. However Cool (and Nil, as it inherits directly from Cool and doesn't seem to override .Int) prints an error and returns 0 instead.
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13:23 jkramer This seems inconsistent and somewhat wrong to me
13:25 jkramer IMO Nil.Int shouldn't return a valid integer (0) but die instead
13:25 jkramer Same for any undefined value
13:25 jkramer Especially since most/all(?) other types (at least the ones I tried) seem to do this right
13:29 gfldex m: Cool.^can('Int')[0].wrap(-> \self { 'bail' }); say Cool.Int
13:29 camelia rakudo-moar f09b8b: OUTPUT«bail␤»
13:29 gfldex jkramer: ^^^
13:33 jkramer How's that helping? :D
13:33 gfldex that's a supersede that works already
13:33 jkramer Ah, ok :)
13:34 jkramer So am I the only one thinking .Int and other standard type methods should do the same consistently everywhere?
13:34 dalek doc: 4a40e98 | coke++ | doc/Type/Proc/Async.pod6:
13:34 dalek doc: remove trailing whitespace
13:34 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4a40e981c6
13:34 dalek doc: af66b28 | coke++ | doc/Type/IO/Notification.pod6:
13:34 dalek doc: fix typo
13:34 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/af66b28f01
13:34 dalek doc: a768510 | coke++ | xt/words.pws:
13:34 dalek doc: learn word
13:34 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a768510203
13:35 lizmat jkramer: please rakudobug it describing how you think it should work
13:35 lizmat email rakudobug@perl.org
13:36 jkramer Ok
13:39 lizmat thanks!
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14:26 jkramer My mail wasn't accepted because some spamsources.fabel.dk thingy has listed my server's IP o_O
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14:58 andrzejku huh I hate javascript
14:58 andrzejku ;s
15:03 mst ES6 is almost an acceptable perl5 I find
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15:09 * jnthn is doing ES6 today and whining, but that's because of the concurrency model, not because of the language per se :)
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15:16 T__ how can I help :D
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15:17 moritz_ T__: what do you want to do? Write C code? Write Perl 6 code? Write docs? pay developers? organize conferences?
15:17 moritz_ the options are nearly endless
15:17 T__ ah, infinity
15:18 moritz_ got to go now; will come up with ideas later if you write what you want to do :-)
15:18 T__ I think most work is already been done, but I could start by helping with a dutch translation
15:19 T__ but the dutch docs are pretty decent already
15:21 perlpilot T__: Only the first 80% is done, we still need people working on the second 80%  ;)
15:24 T__ interesting, I wonder if i could help
15:25 T__ I will start by idling here,
15:25 gfldex there are quite a few bits in the docs still missing, see: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues
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15:27 gfldex if you want to dig deep into the compiler, there are a few threading bugs that need debugging.
15:29 AlexDaniel T__: yeah, so what do you want to do exactly?
15:30 AlexDaniel there are many ways you can help, just say what your interests are :)
15:31 AlexDaniel huggable: dunno
15:31 huggable AlexDaniel, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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15:47 lizmat dutch docs? it comes in dutch ?
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15:50 AlexDaniel sure it does :P https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&amp;sl=en&amp;tl=nl&amp;u=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.perl6.org
15:51 AlexDaniel but yes, that's a good question. Has anyone ever considered adding support for other languages on docs.perl6.org?
15:52 AlexDaniel or are we going to claim that our docs are postmodern and that's not going to happen :)
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15:54 [Coke] I'd love to have a curated translation.
15:54 [Coke] There's a ton of issues with that, including: we don't have a full english set. :)
15:55 [Coke] but if we have someone interested in managing a different language's version, we can make the infrastructure support it.
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16:02 lizmat well, I've done nl.perl6intro.com   and it's a lot of work even for something as relatively static as that
16:04 AlexDaniel actually… I like the idea of having intro tutorials in different languages while at the same time deliberately refusing to keep and maintain translations of the main docs… But that's just me.
16:05 AlexDaniel I know it sounds harsh, but…
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16:05 AlexDaniel huggable: dunno
16:05 huggable AlexDaniel, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
16:06 timotimo if we had the docs translated, i expect changes and fixes would take a long time to drip through to the other languages :(
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16:11 lizmat yeah, perhaps we need some more parts to the perl6intro, but generally I agree with AlexDaniel
16:12 [Coke] I disagree; if someone really is willing to put in the effort, we can support it.
16:13 [Coke] (the thing is, we're not going to find that person, I bet - but let's not say no up front)
16:14 AlexDaniel [Coke]: the problem is that people usually put this effort for a very short period of time
16:14 AlexDaniel rewriting stuff in another language quickly gets boring
16:14 [Coke] Yes. we have to be clear up front that isn't a one time thing.
16:14 [Coke] so caution, yes, refusal, no.
16:14 AlexDaniel so in the end we will end up with outdated docs or half of the docs…
16:20 AlexDaniel I think it is a good idea to write some guidelines for writing perl6intro translations. For example, if some concept is introduced, it should also mention its English name, so that it will be easier for people to search for that stuff in actual docs. Kinda obvious, but it is probably a good idea to write it out.
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16:57 dalek doc: d41d151 | gfldex++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6:
16:57 dalek doc: Since we don't care about its return value, don't use .map. We do have a
16:57 dalek doc: nice idiom for calling method like subs, so use that instead.
16:57 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d41d1512f3
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17:10 tbrowder anyone using Bailador for a secure website?
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17:11 tbrowder I mean password protected running under strict TLS?
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17:20 moritz if I did, I'd probably let the webserver handle TLS termination and authentication
17:22 moritz (in fact, I do that with p5 web apps whenever possible as well)
17:24 timotimo i think you should always rely on a mature piece of software to handle that for you
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18:02 tbrowder sure I didn't explain that well. My webserver is latest Apache running strict TLS on all vhosts.  I need to add a site with good password protection, not using Apache's password schemes at all (unless someone knows how to log such a user out reliably).  So, given that, how's Bailador?
18:04 tbrowder (well, almost latest Apache)
18:08 tbrowder well, as usual, spoke too soon.  i see some new stuff at Apache that looks like it answers most of my questions.  thanks.
18:14 El_Che tbrowder: wouldn't it be better to implement that kind of functionality with things as shibboleth (in the case there is an identity provider supporting SAML2)?
18:17 tbrowder hm, not sure, but separate auth is more complicated.  right now i'm using client TLS certs but that's cumbersome and scary for some of my less computer-savy friends and classmates.  I've avoided going the password route but want to do it now if i can do it without too much pain.
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18:18 dalek doc: 56df46b | adaptiveoptics++ | doc/Language/objects.pod6:
18:18 dalek doc: addressing common side-effect of BUILD
18:18 dalek doc:
18:18 dalek doc: Addressing common side-effect of using custom typed attributes in submethod BUILDs
18:18 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/56df46b906
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18:19 seatek that bit me yesterday for several hours ;) and i'm sure others will encounter it commonly
18:19 RabidGravy Boom!
18:23 tbrowder El_Che: wasn't familiar with Shibboleth, thanks for the reference.
18:24 El_Che tbrowder: I admin (and architecture) a pretty bug Shib setup
18:24 El_Che tbrowder: pretty much the best out there, but not for the faint of heart (xml die xml)
18:25 El_Che so if you're use case is small: look elsewhere. If big enough to warrant the time investment: very powerful
18:26 El_Che tbrowder: otherwise you could go de oauth/openconnect root
18:26 El_Che route
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18:31 FROGGS o/
18:32 timotimo o/
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18:41 lizmat El_Che: didn't you have something for the P6W ?
18:42 El_Che lizmat: actually, every time you release a new rakudo, there are new rakudo debs and rpm in my repo
18:44 El_Che so people that want to have a quick look of the new release can try them
18:48 lizmat yup, cool, will mention it  :-)
18:48 El_Che I try to hang around enough here to know when a new release is out :)
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19:02 dalek ecosystem: 78311c3 | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
19:02 dalek ecosystem: Rename META for Audio::Silan
19:02 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/78311c3be3
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19:04 viki El_Che: it's 3rd Saturday of the month, by end of day E[SD]T
19:04 lizmat and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2016/10/24/2016-43-shining-star/
19:06 RabidGravy boom!
19:08 Juerd lizmat++
19:09 lizmat Juerd  o/
19:09 Juerd Hoi
19:09 viki lizmat++ Weekly and lizmat++ .match improvements
19:10 timotimo yes, quite
19:11 FROGGS lizmat++
19:11 DrForr lizmat++ # indeedy, will check it out.
19:12 DrForr Incidentally I've got a 2-hour version of my Intro to Perl 6 lined up for LPW.
19:12 lizmat DrForr: will mention next week
19:14 DrForr lizmat: Thanks. I've *still* got to get my flight lined up.
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19:15 lizmat ok, lemme know when it is safe to be mentioned  :-)
19:15 DrForr Heh. Later this week certainly.
19:17 vendethiel lizmat++
19:18 El_Che viki: thx
19:18 El_Che lizmat++
19:37 DrForr Wow. I replaced the grammar engine and the token folding layer still (almost) works - Need to change what I'm doing to read the stash variable, but that's it.
19:51 dalek ecosystem: fbb6f54 | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
19:51 dalek ecosystem: Add URI::FetchFile
19:51 dalek ecosystem:
19:51 dalek ecosystem: see https://github.com/jonathanstowe/URI-FetchFile
19:51 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/fbb6f54866
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20:07 grondilu RabidGravy: imho the most interesting part in this module is the Executable role
20:07 grondilu personally I would not have made it parametric
20:07 grondilu m: role Executable does Stringy {}
20:07 camelia rakudo-moar aaec51: ( no output )
20:09 grondilu role Executable does Stringy { method is-available { so which self } } }
20:10 RabidGravy that's one way of doing it ;-p
20:24 El_Che thx for the mention lizmat, I'll try to keep the releases up with the rakudo compiler.
20:26 El_Che Fosdem, guys, we've have the first propopal already (on mail, some other people mentioned they wanted to give a talk). So if there is nice perl6 talk plans, I'll like to hear about it!
20:26 El_Che (4 & 5 February 2017, Brussels)
20:27 DrForr El_Che: I'm going to, I just have to get OSCON Austin lined up first, or at least something passed along.
20:27 El_Che we've had great perl6 talks in the past, so there is a reputation to keep up
20:27 El_Che DrForr: the life of a diva is hard, boehoe
20:27 El_Che :)
20:28 DrForr Someone's gotta be the Kim Kardashian of perl. Thank the GODS it's not me.
20:29 El_Che Kim Kardashian is not my type, but damn, you spoilt her for me
20:29 El_Che :)
20:30 DrForr I'd be closer to Lady Gaga anyway :)
20:30 El_Che DrForr: don't minimize yourself! Kim Kadashion it is
20:31 El_Che (bbl)
20:34 DrForr Thank God I didn't say Sookie.
20:34 El_Che It sound like you've invested some time in thinking about your persona
20:35 gfldex m: role R { method name { $?CLASS.^name.subst(/^ "Foo::" /, '') } }; class Foo::Bar::Buzz does R {}; Foo::Bar::Buzz.new.name.say
20:35 camelia rakudo-moar aaec51: OUTPUT«Bar::Buzz␤»
20:35 DrForr (I've seen a bit of ... I think it was Geordie Shore? on a TV at a New York Pizza in Amsterdam - Even subtitled in Dutch I was repulsed.)
20:36 DrForr You've just witnessed the extent to which I've thought about it :)
20:36 El_Che If I was planning an invasion to the US, I would show that program afterwards and say "this is why we could just invade you just like that"
20:36 El_Che :)
20:37 El_Che I have seen it before, and OMG, I wasn't prepared for it
20:37 DrForr Tomorrow I'll do a basic [% FOREACH %] and do an initial release.
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21:29 Vynce is it a known issue and/or resolvable thing that rakudo.org doesn't https?
21:30 timotimo oh, ouch
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21:32 timotimo "Apache/2.0.63 " is this a problem? :S
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21:35 Vynce I mean, it serves a cert that just doesn't happen to match.
21:35 Vynce I don't know if there's a better contact point for rakudo.org webmastery stuff.
21:36 timotimo rakudo.org is pmichaud's box
21:41 Vynce ah.  known at https://rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=128423 4 months ago.
21:41 viki Vynce: yeah, and IIRC it's just not super simple to resolve.
21:42 viki .seen pmchaud
21:42 yoleaux I haven't seen pmchaud around.
21:42 viki .seen pmchad
21:42 yoleaux I haven't seen pmchad around.
21:43 El_Che Vynce: yes, I create a bug report for that
21:43 El_Che d
21:43 viki .ask pmichaud any updates on HTTPS for rakudo.org ( RT#128423 )? Do you need any help?
21:43 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=128423
21:43 yoleaux viki: I'll pass your message to pmichaud.
21:44 El_Che (I didn't created it, I just commented, [Coke]++)
21:46 Vynce Yeah, it doesn't have a lot of comments or any indication that anybody has really looked at it.
21:46 Vynce (and I can't comment on it)
21:46 Vynce .seen pmichaud
21:46 yoleaux I saw pmichaud 15 Sep 2016 01:34Z in #perl6: <pmichaud> m: my $input = '(\d\d\d)';  my $m = 'a 123' ~~ /$0=<$input>/; say $m
21:47 El_Che I proposed a simple solution
21:47 viki Vynce: what did you want to comment? I can comment for you. I recall pmichaud looking at the ticket in the past and I recall there was something not trivial with the solution.
21:48 Vynce mostly just a vote for and thread bump ... possibly point out that getting a free cert via letsencrypt is easy.
21:49 Vynce i mean
21:49 Vynce it seems like a pretty good cost/benefit analysis, to me
21:50 El_Che viki: if it's not trivial, it's probably something specific with the setup (e.g. config of a shared hosting or similar).
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21:52 viki El_Che: doubt it's shared. There are only a handful of users on the box
21:53 El_Che viki: I can always be pinged about it
21:53 viki noted
21:54 El_Che thx
21:55 timotimo we may want to actually move rakudo.org to live on p6c.org?
21:55 timotimo since we'd have multiple people with administrative capabilities then?
21:56 Vynce anyway, I have little else to add, other than I would probably have installed and started learning perl6 90 minutes ago, had that worked.
21:57 viki Vynce: you can check the signature.
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21:58 viki https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tags
21:58 viki Hm.. and star... isn't being signed? :/ https://github.com/rakudo/star/tags
21:59 El_Che Vynce: what OS are you using?
21:59 * viki isn't familiar with star release process
22:00 El_Che Vynce: in case you're running Ubuntu or CentOS: https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases (ssl+signing). (got to reboot for kernel upgrade, bbl)
22:09 Vynce mac/OSX, and had another friend recommend rakudobrew, which seems fine, and i'm in that process, but ... added hurdles. *shrug* TIMTOWTDI, BIIEMPW.
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22:12 El_Che rakudobrew is fine for in the mean time :)
22:12 El_Che (bbl, off to bed)
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22:18 tbrowder ref module use: it's clear if a module has all subs marked as "is export", then, when the module is used, all subs are available.  Does that mean some inefficiencies when only one or two out of LOTS are needed?
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22:19 tbrowder If the bulk use is not efficient, the how can one do the Perl 5 trick of "use Mod::Foo 'routine2'?
22:20 tbrowder I haven't been able to see in the docs if that is possible.
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22:30 tbrowder I think in P5 the use of @EXPORT_OK allowed modules to be imported by name if only one was wanted.  If that is possible in P6, then an example needs to be in the docs.
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22:47 timotimo what is BIIEMPW?
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23:03 nicq20 Hello o/
23:05 timotimo greetings
23:05 AlexDaniel 🙋
23:05 timotimo how are you doing, nicq20
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23:06 nicq20 Not too bad, looking up why a 'state' var is not called 'static'.
23:07 AlexDaniel it's not that static… :)
23:07 timotimo because it behaves differently from what the word static makes you think of
23:07 AlexDaniel m: for ^5 { state $x = rand; say $x }
23:07 camelia rakudo-moar aaec51: OUTPUT«0.497313418257676␤0.497313418257676␤0.497313418257676␤0.497313418257676␤0.497313418257676␤»
23:07 AlexDaniel m: for ^5 { if True { state $x = rand; say $x } }
23:07 camelia rakudo-moar aaec51: OUTPUT«0.221328266300838␤0.978324238080301␤0.34858177635232␤0.176490997003769␤0.94928031490241␤»
23:08 AlexDaniel nicq20: where do you want to use it?
23:11 nicq20 AlexDaniel: Nowhere, I was looking through some C documentation and never realized that they were different. Seems like they do the same thing though. :/
23:11 AlexDaniel IMHO, “nowhere” is the right answer :)
23:11 nicq20 AlexDaniel: Lolz, I was mostly just curious if there was some historical reason for the different name.
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23:12 AlexDaniel once block and state variables looked like foot rocket launchers to me…
23:12 AlexDaniel always* :)
23:13 AlexDaniel has anybody ever used them in a real project?
23:13 dalek joined #perl6
23:13 AlexDaniel I did a couple of times in code golf, but not in actual scripts
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23:20 nicq20 AlexDaniel: Well I have a couple times, but only to keep track of the runs of a particular function. Mostly debugging. :P
23:21 nicq20 AlexDaniel: I could see it being much more useful in classes to make sure that some setting is universal.
23:22 AlexDaniel ah dammit, I did use it at least once: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/blob/master/Whateverable.pm6#L263
23:22 nicq20 lolz
23:23 nicq20 gtg, see ya!
23:24 AlexDaniel MasterDuke: I wonder how broken that is
23:25 AlexDaniel if broken at all, I don't think .upload will ever be called simultaneously
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23:43 timotimo o/
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23:46 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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23:54 BenGoldberg m: my @a = 'a'..'c'; my @b = lazy |@a, |(1..3); dd @b;
23:54 camelia rakudo-moar aaec51: OUTPUT«Array @b = ("a", "b", "c", 1, 2, 3, Any, Any, Any, Any... (lazy list)␤»
23:54 BenGoldberg m: my @a = 'a'..'c'; my @b := lazy |@a, |(1..3); dd @b;
23:54 camelia rakudo-moar aaec51: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected Positional but got Seq (?)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
23:55 BenGoldberg m: my @a = 'a'..'c'; my @b := |@a, |(1..3); dd @b;
23:55 camelia rakudo-moar aaec51: OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c", 1, 2, 3)␤»
23:55 ggherdov joined #perl6
23:55 BenGoldberg m: my @a = 'a'..'c'; dd lazy |@a, |(1..3);;
23:55 camelia rakudo-moar aaec51: OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c", 1, 2, 3, Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil... (lazy list)␤»
23:55 BenGoldberg m: my @a = 'a'..'c'; dd lazy |@a;
23:55 camelia rakudo-moar aaec51: OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c", Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil... (lazy list)␤»
23:55 BenGoldberg m: my @a = 'a'..'c'; dd lazy @a;
23:55 camelia rakudo-moar aaec51: OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c", Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil... (lazy list)␤»
23:56 BenGoldberg Is lazy supposed to produce an infinite list?
23:56 kipd joined #perl6
23:56 BuildTheRobots joined #perl6
23:56 _28_ria joined #perl6
23:58 timeless joined #perl6
23:58 BenGoldberg m: dd lazy 'a'..'c';
23:58 camelia rakudo-moar aaec51: OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c", Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil, Nil... (lazy list)␤»
23:58 BenGoldberg m: dd eager 'a'..'c';
23:58 camelia rakudo-moar aaec51: OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c")␤»

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