Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-10-28

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:13 viki kyclark, well, "zero or more", so it matched zero
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00:13 ugexe m: say "oobar" ~~ /o*/; # seems like a bug to me
00:13 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«「oo」␤»
00:13 viki Doesn't to me. FWIW, there's a ticket for that, with a discussion.
00:14 viki seatek: there's nothing weird with that. Millions of schoolchildren do basic mathematics daily and know that power is done before the negative.
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00:15 * viki is unreasonably miffed with so many people realizing today that -2² is -4 and not 4.
00:15 * viki is unreasonably miffed that so many people thing -2² being -4 is an artefact of a language or "everything is an object"
00:15 viki *think
00:16 MasterDuke viki: "zero or more" for sure, but greedily, so it seems odd to me. 'o*?' i would definitely expect to match zero
00:17 MasterDuke do you know the ticket #?
00:17 viki MasterDuke: but the first thing is not "o", it's "f", so it attempts to match zero, succeeeds, tries 1, fails, and returns nothing
00:18 viki I looked at a couple with REGEX tag but didn't find it.
00:18 ugexe m: say "fooooo" ~~ /o*$/; # if you let it be greedy until the end it captures them
00:18 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«「ooooo」␤»
00:18 viki Sure, you anchored it.
00:19 viki m: say "fooooo" ~~ /'f' o*/;
00:19 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«「fooooo」␤»
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00:20 viki MasterDuke: fwiw, it was something about grammar tokens with * on them and then there was a much older ticket with a full discussion on this and how it differs from Perl 5
00:21 MasterDuke hmm, wonder how well RT's search handles '*'
00:21 viki MasterDuke: might be this one: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=129311#ticket-history
00:21 viki m: say  'a' ~~ m/''*/
00:21 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 979304448 bytes␤»
00:22 viki eye
00:23 MasterDuke i've seen that ticket referenced before, don't remember why though...
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00:32 ugexe m: say "fooooo" ~~ /f ** 0 o/; # how does this work?
00:32 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«「o」␤»
00:33 ugexe work may or may not be surrounded by air quotes
00:34 ugexe hm, guess it must skip the f, *then* get the zero width match
00:35 seatek viki, ha! thanks :) I had no idea that's how actual math did it ;)
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00:42 ugexe m: say WHAT 1..0; my @x = 1..0; say @x.perl; say "a" ~~ /a ** 1..0/;
00:42 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Empty range␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 1..0; say @x.perl; say "a" ~~ /a ** 1..07⏏5/;␤»
00:42 ugexe m: say WHAT 1..0;
00:42 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«(Range)␤»
00:46 ugexe m: my $x = 1..2; say "aaaa" ~~ /a ** {$x}/
00:46 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«「aa」␤»
00:46 ugexe m: my $x = 1..0; say "aaaa" ~~ /a ** {$x}/
00:46 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«「aaaa」␤»
00:46 ugexe possibly a bug
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00:59 ugexe m: my $x = 2..1; say "aaaa" ~~ /a ** {$x}/
00:59 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
00:59 ugexe 1..0 greedily matches all 'a', whereas 2..1 doesn't match anything
01:02 ugexe appears if the backwards range ends with a 0 it acts one way, and if it ends non-zero it acts another
01:04 AlexDaniel ugexe: this behavior is since 2014.08
01:05 AlexDaniel :/
01:05 AlexDaniel “Internal error: zeroed target thread ID in work pass” :(
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01:09 ugexe m: say "aaaa" ~~ /a ** {Inf..0}/; # its at least aware of the Range's makeup inside {} in this instance
01:09 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«Range minimum in quantifier (**) cannot be +Inf␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
01:10 ugexe seems like it should catch {1..0} the same as 1..0 then
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01:16 AlexDaniel j: say 'aaaa' ~~ /a ** {1..0}/
01:17 camelia rakudo-jvm 8d357a: OUTPUT«「aaaa」␤»
01:17 AlexDaniel j: say 'aaaa' ~~ /a ** {2..1}/
01:17 camelia rakudo-jvm 8d357a: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
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01:30 AlexDaniel m: say ‘aaaa’ ~~ /a ** {4..-5}/
01:30 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«「aaaa」␤»
01:30 AlexDaniel m: say ‘aaaa’ ~~ /a ** {5..-5}/
01:30 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
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01:37 AlexDaniel another interesting thing
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01:38 AlexDaniel ah no, it's fine
01:38 seatek cruel
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01:46 AlexDaniel seatek: ok-ok
01:46 AlexDaniel m: say ‘aaaa’ ~~ /a ** 1..3/
01:46 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«「aaa」␤»
01:46 AlexDaniel m: say ‘aaaa’ ~~ /a ** 1..3.0/
01:46 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
01:46 AlexDaniel m: say ‘aaaa’ ~~ /a ** 1.0..3/
01:46 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
01:46 sufrostico hey there!
01:46 sufrostico ¿is there a way to do some web development in perl6?
01:46 sufrostico if so, is there any tutorial in configure the apache? or just pure community knowledge?
01:46 AlexDaniel the amount of low-level hacks to make quantifiers work is amazing
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01:48 seatek sufrostico, i think usually people proxy web servers back to a running perl instance
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01:49 AlexDaniel benchable6: HEAD say ‘aaaa’ ~~ /a ** 0..5/
01:49 benchable6 AlexDaniel, starting to benchmark the 1 given commit
01:49 benchable6 AlexDaniel, ¦«HEAD»:0.1106
01:49 evalable6 AlexDaniel, rakudo-moar 5ac593e: OUTPUT«(exit code 1) ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/OtSVtSs8xL␤Undeclared name:␤    HEAD used at line 1␤»
01:49 AlexDaniel ah, I remember
01:49 AlexDaniel that's why it was shut down
01:49 AlexDaniel bench: HEAD say ‘aaaa’ ~~ /a ** 0..5/
01:49 benchable6 AlexDaniel, starting to benchmark the 1 given commit
01:49 benchable6 AlexDaniel, ¦«HEAD»:0.1107
01:50 AlexDaniel bench: HEAD say ‘aaaa’ ~~ /a ** 0..5000000/
01:50 benchable6 AlexDaniel, starting to benchmark the 1 given commit
01:50 benchable6 AlexDaniel, ¦«HEAD»:10.0005
01:51 AlexDaniel hehe
01:53 AlexDaniel but don't worry, very large numbers are fast!
01:53 AlexDaniel bench: HEAD say ‘aaaa’ ~~ /a ** 0..9223372036854775296/
01:53 benchable6 AlexDaniel, starting to benchmark the 1 given commit
01:53 benchable6 AlexDaniel, ¦«HEAD»:0.1099
01:53 AlexDaniel ;)
01:55 sufrostico Just found P6W is that ready to run (very small non-critical web apps)
01:55 sufrostico =
01:55 sufrostico ?
01:56 seatek m: say 'aaaa' ~~ /a ** 1.0.Int..3/
01:56 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
01:57 seatek m: for 1.0.Int..3 -> $x { say $x }
01:57 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
01:57 seatek m: say 'aaaa' ~~ /a ** 1.0.Int..10/
01:57 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
01:57 seatek m: say 'aaaa' ~~ /a ** 1..10.Int/
01:57 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
01:58 seatek m: say 'aaaa' ~~ /a ** 1..10/
01:58 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«「aaaa」␤»
02:00 seatek sufrostico, I don't know - there are simpler ones there. I've been converting stuff to p6 to get to know it and haven't gotten to any web stuff yet.
02:02 sufrostico seatek, thanks... I'll try and come back :D
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02:15 AlexDaniel ugexe: are you going to submit a bug report?
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02:32 perlawhirl committable6: sub infix:<j>{$^l.comb.tail eq $^r.comb.head??(|$l,$r)!!|@};say [Xj] <te tt>,<fg et>,<wd td>;
02:32 committable6 perlawhirl, ¦«sub»: Cannot find this revision
02:33 perlawhirl committable6: 2016.04..2016.09 sub infix:<j>{$^l.comb.tail eq $^r.comb.head??(|$l,$r)!!|@};say [Xj] <te tt>,<fg et>,<wd td>;
02:33 committable6 perlawhirl, Too many commits (1206) in range, you're only allowed 1000
02:33 perlawhirl committable6: 2016.05..2016.09 sub infix:<j>{$^l.comb.tail eq $^r.comb.head??(|$l,$r)!!|@};say [Xj] <te tt>,<fg et>,<wd td>;
02:35 skids m: my $c = Channel.new; start { for (1,2,3) { sleep 1; "send".say; $c.send($_) }; $c.close }; my $w := $c.Array; $w.WHAT.say; for $w -> $a, $b? is raw { $a.say; with $b { $b.say; $b = 4 } }; $w.say; # When I read the code it looks like this should be lazy...but it ain't
02:35 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«send␤send␤send␤(Array)␤1␤2␤3␤[1 4 3]␤»
02:36 skids m: my $c = Channel.new; start { for (1,2,3) { sleep 1; "send".say; $c.send($_) }; $c.close }; my $w := $c.list; $w.map: { $_.say; }
02:36 committable6 perlawhirl, «hit the total time limit of 180 seconds»
02:36 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«send␤1␤send␤2␤send␤3␤»
02:36 skids m: my $c = Channel.new; start { for (1,2,3) { sleep 1; "send".say; $c.send($_) }; $c.close }; my $w := $c.Array; $w.map: { $_.say; }
02:36 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«send␤send␤send␤1␤2␤3␤»
02:37 perlawhirl committable6: 2016.07..2016.09 sub infix:<j>{$^l.comb.tail eq $^r.comb.head??(|$l,$r)!!|@};say [Xj] <te tt>,<fg et>,<wd td>;
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02:39 AlexDaniel committable6: 6c sub infix:<j>{$^l.comb.tail eq $^r.comb.head??(|$l,$r)!!|@};say [Xj] <te tt>,<fg et>,<wd td>; # usually you'll do this
02:39 AlexDaniel it will run stuff on tags only
02:40 committable6 perlawhirl, «hit the total time limit of 180 seconds»
02:40 committable6 AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/87a587504017e4c5807be178a038a626
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02:40 AlexDaniel alright, well that's bisectable
02:40 AlexDaniel bisect: sub infix:<j>{$^l.comb.tail eq $^r.comb.head??(|$l,$r)!!|@};say [Xj] <te tt>,<fg et>,<wd td>; # usually you'll do this
02:40 bisectable6 AlexDaniel, Bisecting by output (old=2015.12 new=5ac593e) because on both starting points the exit code is 0
02:40 bisectable6 AlexDaniel, bisect log: https://gist.github.com/e0ce811ab7e1be965e7b74efcaa34396
02:40 bisectable6 AlexDaniel, (2016-09-19) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/96df2d7148cef0c8243bd7a2a1b66b8c22e356eb
02:41 AlexDaniel perlawhirl: is that what you wanted? :)
02:42 AlexDaniel MasterDuke: 180 second limit for 1000 commits expects 0.18s per each commit, that's rather optimistic
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02:43 skids wow does bisectable have lots of prebuilt trees?  that was fast.
02:44 AlexDaniel skids: it has rakudo prebuilt on all commits since 2015.10
02:44 skids yikes.
02:44 perlawhirl AlexDaniel: ahh yes, i was confused
02:44 perlawhirl i wanted bisect
02:44 perlawhirl thanks
02:45 MasterDuke AlexDaniel: i thought 2015.07?
02:45 AlexDaniel ah yes, 2015.07 sorry
02:45 AlexDaniel it was actually much faster a few months ago, today we compress every build
02:46 MasterDuke and 180s for 1k commits is optimistic, think it should be longer? or fewer commits allowed?
02:46 AlexDaniel fewer commits allowed I think
02:46 AlexDaniel like, half
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02:48 dalek whateverable: 1dfa809 | MasterDuke17++ | Whateverable.pm6:
02:48 dalek whateverable: Reduce the number of commits allowed
02:48 dalek whateverable:
02:48 dalek whateverable: With a default max time allowed of 180s, that only gave 0.18s for each
02:48 dalek whateverable: commit.
02:48 dalek whateverable: review: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/commit/1dfa809735
02:50 AlexDaniel skids: it is actually not that surprising. Amount of space required is less than 50 GB. It takes less than a week to build it all from 2015.07 to current HEAD
02:51 AlexDaniel we can go all the way to the first days of rakudo on moar, but who wants to bisect that far?
02:51 AlexDaniel we still build all the tags though
02:51 AlexDaniel committable6: 2014.01 say 42
02:51 committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦«2014.01»: 42
02:52 AlexDaniel and you can use ‘all’ to run something on all releases and ‘6c’ to run something just from 2015.12
02:52 AlexDaniel committable6: all say ‘hello’
02:52 committable6 AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/8a4caa7b404cc4118865bf53e5ce35e9
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04:09 Herby__ o/
04:09 Herby__ m: our Str $key = 'ja123a'; say $key;
04:09 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot put a type constraint on an 'our'-scoped variable␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3our Str $key7⏏5 = 'ja123a'; say $key;␤    expecting any of:␤        constraint␤»
04:12 Herby__ what's the reason for not allowing a type constraint on an 'our' scoped variable?
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04:28 AlexDaniel Herby__: not relevant, but still: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=126449
04:29 Herby__ thanks
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04:30 AlexDaniel in fact, the error message says that according to the parser it want a constraint in “where …” form (if I get it right)
04:31 AlexDaniel m: our $key where { True } = 'ja123a'; say $key;
04:31 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot put a type constraint on an 'our'-scoped variable␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3our $key where { True }7⏏5 = 'ja123a'; say $key;␤    expecting any of:␤        constraint␤        infix␤        …»
04:31 AlexDaniel but obviously that does not work too
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04:32 b7j0c i can do a match in perl6 like: say so '123' ~~ m|\d+|;  ... so why can't I do something like:  say so '123' ~~ m|Int+|;
04:33 b7j0c given that Int is a built in type and is something we could match (?)
04:34 b7j0c related: is there a trait that can be used to make a built-in or user-defined type... "matchable" ?
04:35 geekosaur regex is a different language from perl6
04:35 geekosaur Int is not defined in that language
04:35 AlexDaniel Herby__: this is the commit that added these messages https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bfd8508f5ceee565380da201ef25bdfb6feb2b3d
04:35 geekosaur you can use `regex` and `token` to define new constructs in the regex language
04:35 AlexDaniel Herby__: given that it is May 2013, my guess is that there is no reason at all why that would have to work like this
04:35 AlexDaniel Herby__: that is, nobody stumbled upon it before you
04:36 AlexDaniel and that kind of makes sense, there is less need for “our” in perl 6
04:36 AlexDaniel Herby__: so please submit a bug report
04:36 Herby__ AlexDaniel: thanks for digging into it. I stumbled onto it because I'm probably trying to use it incorrectly :)
04:36 b7j0c geekosaur: cool! I haven't looked into grammars so much yet, looks like I need to...thanks!
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04:39 AlexDaniel well you can do crazy stuff like / (.*) <?{ try { Int.new($0); True } }>/
04:39 AlexDaniel I wonder if it works
04:40 AlexDaniel m: say ‘25’ ~~ / (.+) <?{ try { Int.new($0); True } }>/
04:40 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«「25」␤ 0 => 「25」␤»
04:40 AlexDaniel m: say ‘abc’ ~~ / (.+) <?{ try { Int.new($0); True } }>/
04:40 camelia rakudo-moar 8c3548: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
04:41 AlexDaniel yeah, but I'd probably curse badly if I saw that in real code
04:44 Herby__ off for the night, thanks for info AlexDaniel
04:44 AlexDaniel but… but… a bug report? :)
04:44 Herby__ I've never submitted one, gotta look into how to do it :)
04:45 MasterDuke buggable: rakudobug
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04:46 AlexDaniel huggable: rakudobug
04:46 huggable AlexDaniel, rakudobug@perl.org or use perl6 query on http://rt.perl.org ; see https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/#reporting-bugs
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05:08 kb_ Hi
05:08 kb_ I have a problem installing rakudo-star-2016.10
05:08 kb_ up to make it is OK
05:08 kb_ then "make install" fails on installing panda
05:10 kb_ more exactly at testing File::Find
05:10 kb_ or so:
05:10 kb_ cd modules/panda && sh -c "PATH=/opt/OSAGrakudostar/bin:/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/osix/bin /opt/OSAGrakudostar/bin/perl6-m bootstrap.pl" ==> Bootstrapping Panda ==> Installing panda from a local directory '/usr/src/packages/src/OSAGrakudostar/rakudo-star-2016.10/modules/panda' ==> panda depends on File::Find, Shell::Command, JSON::Fast, File::Which ==> Shell::Command depends on File::Find ==> Fetching File::Find ==> Building F
05:10 kb_ no such file or directory    at gen/moar/m-CORE.setting:24539  (/opt/OSAGrakudostar/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:throw)  from gen/moar/m-CORE.setting:36068  (/opt/OSAGrakudostar/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:result)
05:12 kb_ unfortunately it does not say what file it is missing :-(
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05:17 geekosaur that got cut off. and please use some kind of pastebin. gits.github.com and dpaste.de are commonly used here
05:17 Actualeyes1 joined #perl6
05:17 TEttinger gist.github.com
05:20 geekosaur whoops yes
05:20 geekosaur (IRC has a 512 byte limit on messages, which is reduced by metadata like channel name and your nick. some clients are aware of this and split messages, others aren
05:21 kb_ Here you are: https://dpaste.de/zXoE
05:21 geekosaur t. yours, if it did split it, split it oddly
05:23 geekosaur o.O I *think* that's a panda internal failure finding a test file?
05:23 geekosaur huggable: rakudobug
05:23 huggable geekosaur, rakudobug@perl.org or use perl6 query on http://rt.perl.org ; see https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/#reporting-bugs
05:23 geekosaur ^ file a bug please
05:23 geekosaur the people who really know what's going on are mostly asleep right now, I think
05:23 kb_ OK, I will do so
05:23 kb_ Thanks!
05:24 * geekosaur should really follow them...
05:51 kb_ the problem is there only if I do
05:51 kb_ perl Configure.pl --backend=moar --gen-moar --prefix /opt/OSAGrakudostar
05:51 kb_ --prefix
05:51 kb_ Do I need that
05:52 kb_ or can I simply move everything with cp?
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06:07 moritz you can't
06:07 moritz rakudo isn't relocatable :(
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06:21 kb_ OK, thanks
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06:47 masak has there been some movement in fixing the area that mst++ described, that we're doing installation stuff during configure?
07:11 andrzejku_ hello perl6
07:11 andrzejku_ :)
07:21 DrForr Morning.
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07:34 FROGGS_ masak: what's the reference?
07:35 masak FROGGS_: mst's YAPC::EU talk, IIRC.
07:35 masak it's on YouTube.
07:35 FROGGS_ ahh
07:35 FROGGS_ will watch
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07:48 FROGGS_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3r-lKlrrRg
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08:01 FROGGS_ :S
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08:09 masak FROGGS_: yes. pretty damning that a (very knowledgeable) Perl 5 dev looks at our toolchain and says "nope, don't do it that way, obviously"
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08:19 DrForr w00t! 4/5 rating for my OSCON talk! (admittedly it's a sample size of one.)
08:19 FROGGS_ masak: well... it was obvious to us that we want only one installation path :o)
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08:20 FROGGS_ masak: so when this is an assumption we have to give up, then the rest *is* obvious
08:24 masak I had kind of assumed that "only one installation path" was a design error that we had inherited from Parrot or something
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08:32 FROGGS_ though it served as well for many years...
08:32 FROGGS_ served us*
08:33 masak it has? I think I've only encountered it in the context of it causing people grief.
08:34 masak people who want to do non-trivial things with the installation.
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09:00 pmurias masak: people being able to just 'cpanm Rakudo' instead of mess around with rakudobrew would be pretty sweat
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09:42 FROGGS_ masak: but how many cases are these non-trivial things out of the infinite times the devs installed it without any problems?
09:43 FROGGS_ masak: I'm just saying that was good doing it this way in the past... now we have users and not just devs so rakudo needs to change
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10:48 viki LOUD NOISES!
10:49 FROGGS /ö\
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12:15 RubioTerra Hi, can anyone help me? What's the Perl6 equivalent to 'while (<>) { ... }'?
12:15 SmokeMachine____ I don't know if it's the right place to warn, but the download link to mac version of rakudo in rakudo.org page is broken... it points to http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-2016.10.dmg but the file is in http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-2016.10-Sierra.dmg
12:16 iH2O theres probably not enough mac users to make a difference anyway
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12:17 lizmat RubioTerra: for lines { }
12:18 RubioTerra Thanks, lizmat!
12:18 lizmat stmuk_ :   ^^^
12:18 lizmat RubioTerra: please note the default is to chomp
12:18 RubioTerra OK.
12:18 lizmat m: say for lines
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12:19 lizmat oops:
12:19 lizmat m: .say for lines
12:20 viki SmokeMachine____: fixed (cc stmuk_)
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12:20 lizmat hmm.... what happened to camelia ?
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12:20 viki m: say 'lag'
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12:22 viki Oh. The page link doesn't use the /latest URLs :/
12:25 viki Fixed that too. But those (and anything else referring to latest releases) really should use the /latest URLs so we only have to update those in one place.
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12:26 moritz stanley: it's too early for a prognoses; if you're curious, sign up to the mailing list for updates
12:27 iH2O perl on mac is doubly cultish
12:29 dalek doc: 250d97c | coke++ | doc/Language/5to6-perlvar.pod6:
12:29 dalek doc: Avoid confusing confusingly.
12:29 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/250d97c358
12:29 dalek doc: 46bf352 | coke++ | doc/Language/ (2 files):
12:29 dalek doc: for #993 - fix instances of Perl[56]
12:29 dalek doc:
12:29 dalek doc: that should have a non-breaking space.
12:29 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/46bf352c70
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12:30 viki iH2O: "cultish"? At least one of the core devs uses mac
12:31 iH2O wow
12:31 lizmat .oO( guilty as charged )
12:31 viki :)
12:32 lizmat been using Apple machines since the Apple ][
12:32 iH2O u proud of yourself, arent u
12:32 iH2O :)
12:32 lizmat no
12:33 lizmat it's just that I don't want to think about what I'm using to do my work
12:33 masak FROGGS: what you're saying (about devs installing it without any problems) is true, but I'm still a bit disappointed (or something) that we managed to disappoint mst, a high-level user who expected the configuration to be sane in a certain way
12:33 lizmat e.g. a car for me should bring me from A to B without hassles
12:33 lizmat don't care how it looks
12:33 MasterDuke .tell moritz i just tried to sign up for your book mailing list, but nothing happened when i clicked the 'Subscribe' button. should something have, or am i now subscribed?
12:33 yoleaux MasterDuke: I'll pass your message to moritz.
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12:33 lizmat or what engine it uses
12:34 iH2O the end justifies the means of the computer
12:34 masak lizmat: perhaps better to recommend `for lines() {}` to people, not `for lines {}`, just in case they try the (non-modifier) for loop and have their block gobbled :)
12:34 FROGGS masak: true, that's why I welcome the heads-up
12:34 lizmat masak: noted  :-)
12:35 FROGGS (could have been earlier though)
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12:36 FROGGS on the other hand: if you use a software in a way it was not meant to, I mean, come on
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12:37 FROGGS we expect that one installs it in a single dir
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12:37 FROGGS if someone needs something else, we can make it work, surely
12:37 FROGGS but it is not that I regret that we did it like we did
12:37 [Coke] masak - we just didn't have any mst-shaped volunteers at the time. now we do, and we can fix it. if we worried about every thing we didn't finish by christmas, where would we be?
12:37 moritz MasterDuke: something should happen, yes. Do you have javascript enabled?
12:37 yoleaux 12:33Z <MasterDuke> moritz: i just tried to sign up for your book mailing list, but nothing happened when i clicked the 'Subscribe' button. should something have, or am i now subscribed?
12:37 masak I'm sorry, I didn't mean for folks to get defensive
12:38 * [Coke] is the opposite of that. :)
12:38 MasterDuke yes, but i do have ublock turned on
12:38 masak the main reason I asked whether there has been any movement is that it seemed like useful feedback to act on
12:39 MasterDuke moritz: FF 49.0.1 on arch linux
12:43 viki MasterDuke: it says "
12:43 viki Almost finished... We need to confirm your email address. To complete the subscription process, please click the link in the email we just sent you.
12:43 viki ugh
12:43 viki MasterDuke: it says that just above the "Submit" button after you click Submit.
12:43 viki While the form is still displayed; maybe it's just out of scroll view for you?
12:44 MasterDuke viki: nope, nothing new visible when i scroll around
12:45 * viki shrugs
12:46 MasterDuke seemed to work in Chrome 54.0.2840.71 (still on arch linux)
12:47 viki Worked for me in Palemoon 26.5.0 on buntu
12:53 viki Call for Speakers from Toronto Perl Mongers, if anyone wants to do a talk: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/b374922e2cc83a008e929e348aa90226
12:54 DrForr I don't think they'd pay for the flight :/
12:55 viki Not unless you're Damian Conway :)
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13:08 iH2O z...
13:16 moritz MasterDuke: has it worked for you? if not, I can add you manually
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13:33 iH2O what is the estimated number of perl6 users?
13:33 viki 1,233,433,768 ±3
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13:34 lizmat viki: that is incorrect: it's 1,233,433,666  :-)   exactly!
13:34 iH2O i suppose this is also the number of rakudo downloads
13:34 viki :)
13:35 DrForr Well, that won't account for github downloads...
13:35 viki downloads != users :)
13:36 * viki single-handedly cloned github.com/rakudo/rakudo over a thousand times
13:36 DrForr True, but a starting point would be nice :)
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13:38 viki Then 1,233,433,768 ±3 should be good 'nuff :)
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13:49 moritz DrForr: http://www.p6c.org/stats/ has some usage stats of the various perl6 websites
13:50 moritz tl;dr perl6.org typically has between 40k and 100k visitors a month
13:51 moritz doc.perl6.org around 30k
13:51 moritz typically about 1% of users are part of the community; with about 100 to 200 folks in the community here, we might have 10k users
13:52 FROGGS that's a lot
13:52 viki 31916 unique visitors to docs.perl6.org in Sept
13:53 viki And seems to be roughly twice more visitors this year than last.
13:53 viki Growth \o/
13:53 DrForr Doing what I can :)
13:53 iH2O doubling each year is a good objective
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14:07 jkramer m: "fooooo".subst(/o/, 'X', :nth(*))
14:07 camelia rakudo-moar 1f76b1: ( no output )
14:07 jkramer m: say "fooooo".subst(/o/, 'X', :nth(*))
14:07 camelia rakudo-moar 1f76b1: OUTPUT«fooooX␤»
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14:08 jkramer m: say 'http://foo.com/some-article-123/page-1.html'.subst(/\b\d\b/, '<PAGE>', :nth(*))
14:08 camelia rakudo-moar 1f76b1: OUTPUT«http://foo.com/some-article-123/page-1.html␤»
14:08 jkramer Whut
14:08 jkramer m: say 'http://foo.com/some-article-123/page-1.html'.subst(/\d/, '<PAGE>', :nth(*))
14:08 camelia rakudo-moar 1f76b1: OUTPUT«http://foo.com/some-article-123/page-<PAGE>.html␤»
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14:08 lizmat star: say 'http://foo.com/some-article-123/page-1.html'.subst(/\d/, '<PAGE>', :nth(*))
14:08 camelia star-m 2016.04: OUTPUT«http://foo.com/some-article-123/page-<PAGE>.html␤»
14:09 jkramer Maybe my rakudo is outdated, locally I get: Attempt to retrieve before :1st match -- :nth(0)
14:10 jkramer m: say $*PERL
14:10 camelia rakudo-moar 1f76b1: OUTPUT«Perl 6 (6.c)␤»
14:10 jkramer Hmm
14:10 lizmat $ 6 'say "http://foo.com/some-article-123/page-1.html".subst(/\d/, "<PAGE>", :nth(*))'
14:10 lizmat http://foo.com/some-article-123/page-<PAGE>.html
14:10 lizmat blead ^^^
14:11 lizmat jkramer: which is what you expect, no ?
14:11 jkramer Yes
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14:11 viki The error you get is the behaviour before the recent match rework
14:11 jkramer It works without the \b's, but with the \b's it crashes on my machnine and here it just does nothing, which confuses me :)
14:11 jkramer Ah
14:11 jkramer Ok, guess I should update then
14:12 lizmat jkramer: what does $*VM say ?
14:12 jkramer moar (2016.09)
14:12 lizmat yes, that doesn't have the fix
14:12 lizmat nor does 2016.10
14:12 viki committable6: 2016.09 m: say "fooooo".subst(/o/, 'X', :nth(*))
14:12 committable6 viki, ¦«2016.09»: fooooX
14:12 jkramer Alright
14:12 jkramer :D
14:12 viki committable6: 2016.10 m: say "fooooo".subst(/o/, 'X', :nth(*))
14:12 committable6 viki, ¦«2016.10»: fooooX
14:13 * viki shrugs
14:13 jkramer This works for me too, just not with the \b
14:13 viki jkramer: you do realize \b is backspace, right?
14:13 jkramer Ooooooh
14:14 viki m: say 'http://foo.com/some-articl​e-123/page-1.html'.subst(/«\d»/, '<PAGE>', :nth(*))
14:14 camelia rakudo-moar e29e47: OUTPUT«http://foo.com/some-articl​e-123/page-<PAGE>.html␤»
14:14 viki jkramer: yeah, there's plan to make it error out. Too common a mistake to make :)
14:14 jkramer Thank's a bunch, I didn't consider this could've changed :)
14:14 jkramer So <<>> is word bound now?
14:15 viki The << is the left boundary now and >> is the right one (Unicode versions: « and »)
14:15 jkramer Perfect, thanks :)
14:15 viki committable6: 2016.10 m: say 'http://foo.com/some-articl​e-123/page-1.html'.subst(/\b\d\b/, '<PAGE>', :nth(*))
14:15 committable6 viki, ¦«2016.10»: Attempt to retrieve before :1st match -- :nth(0)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/XOdSlQeplo line 1␤ «exit code = 1»
14:15 viki committable6: 2016.10 m: say 'http://foo.com/some-articl​e-123/page-1.html'.subst(/«\d»/, '<PAGE>', :nth(*))
14:15 committable6 viki, ¦«2016.10»: http://foo.com/some-articl​e-123/page-<PAGE>.html
14:16 viki Right. So before the .match rework, that version didn't match anything and the Whatever became zero, triggering the error
14:16 viki Bug fix before bug is found :}
14:17 jkramer \o/ :)
14:17 lizmat there's a lot of that going around lately  :-)
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14:43 timotimo http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Snake#Perl_6  -  it would have been kinda nice to know before someone took the code and put it there so i could have had a chance to make the code a bit prettier ...
14:48 viki It's never too late :)
14:48 timotimo i don't really see how to make it any prettier :)
14:48 viki lol
14:48 dalek doc: 8e154a1 | (Garrett Goebel)++ | doc/Type/List.pod6:
14:48 dalek doc: remove supplying explicit identity from produce examples. Prepending a zero
14:48 dalek doc: to the result is unlikely to be desired.
14:48 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8e154a16da
14:48 dalek doc: 0c3e273 | RabidGravy++ | doc/Type/List.pod6:
14:48 dalek doc: Merge pull request #995 from ggoebel/master
14:48 dalek doc:
14:48 dalek doc: Remove supplying explicit identity from produce examples.
14:48 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0c3e2736f3
14:49 viki m: constant W = 1280; dd W
14:49 camelia rakudo-moar e29e47: OUTPUT«1280␤»
14:49 viki TIL you don't need sigils for constants :o
14:49 timotimo you almost always use constant without sigils, i thought
14:50 lizmat timotimo: not if you want to be able to interpolate it into a string easily  :-)
14:50 viki m: constant say = 42; say.say
14:50 camelia rakudo-moar e29e47: OUTPUT«42␤»
14:50 viki hehe
14:51 [Coke] m: constant W = 1280; say "{W}"
14:51 camelia rakudo-moar e29e47: OUTPUT«1280␤»
14:52 viki m: constant constant = 42; constant say = "put"; constant."{say}"()
14:52 camelia rakudo-moar e29e47: OUTPUT«42␤»
14:52 viki That's just wrong :}
14:52 lizmat m: sub danger(\a) { say a }; constant danger = "Danger, Danger, Will Robinson!"; danger(danger)
14:52 camelia rakudo-moar e29e47: OUTPUT«Danger, Danger, Will Robinson!␤»
14:52 viki :o
14:53 lizmat m: sub danger(\danger) { say danger }; constant danger = "Danger, Danger, Will Robinson!"; danger(danger) # even more dangerous
14:53 camelia rakudo-moar e29e47: OUTPUT«Danger, Danger, Will Robinson!␤»
14:54 timotimo lizmat: that's quite true
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14:56 viki m: constant constant = constant constant = &say; (constant)(constant)
14:56 camelia rakudo-moar e29e47: OUTPUT«sub say (| is raw) { #`(Sub|53455448) ... }␤»
14:57 lizmat aw
14:58 timotimo wow, that allows you to slip between declaration and value evaluation so it doesn't actually count as re-declaration?
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15:01 viki m: constant constant = my \constant = &say; (constant)(constant)
15:01 camelia rakudo-moar e29e47: OUTPUT«sub say (| is raw) { #`(Sub|77417000) ... }␤»
15:02 viki m: constant constant = my \constant = my \constant = &say; (constant)(constant)
15:02 camelia rakudo-moar e29e47: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Redeclaration of symbol 'constant'␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3t constant = my \constant = my \constant7⏏5 = &say; (constant)(constant)␤    expecting any of:␤        new term to be defined␤»
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15:03 viki m: constant constant = 2 + my \constant = 42; say constant
15:03 camelia rakudo-moar e29e47: OUTPUT«44␤»
15:03 viki To me it looks like the redeclaration checker isn't doing its job in all the cases :)
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15:07 viki m: constant constant = 1.say && 1 + constant constant = 2.say && 2 + constant constant = 3.say && + constant constant = 42; say constant
15:07 camelia rakudo-moar e29e47: OUTPUT«3␤2␤1␤45␤»
15:07 nicq201 viki: What is even happening there? 0.o
15:07 viki :)
15:10 [Coke] docs folks - why don't we require Inline::Python as a dep, since we already have other modules we rely on? we could then simplify the syntax highlighting code.
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15:29 timotimo do we have http request libraries that also handle PUT, DELETE, PATCH requests?
15:31 FROGGS timotimo: did you check HTTP::UserAgent?
15:31 timotimo nope :S
15:31 FROGGS I'm not sure it supports it, but it should be easily implementable
15:33 viki HTTP::Tiny should support them, but it shells out to curl
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15:47 sufrostico Hi there, anyone knows how to fix this on debian (unstable branch, official perl6 and panda packages) --> Could not find Shell::Command at line 2 in
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15:49 ilmari https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818926
15:49 ilmari sufrostico: ^^
15:52 sufrostico thanks
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16:02 kyclark if I have a list of pairs, how can I pattern match on the pair?
16:02 kyclark m: for 'foo'.comb.pairs -> $i, $l { say "$i: $l" }
16:02 camelia rakudo-moar f22f89: OUTPUT«0    f: 1    o␤Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
16:02 kyclark m: for 'foo'.comb.pairs -> ($i, $l) { say "$i: $l" }
16:02 camelia rakudo-moar f22f89: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 0 in sub-signature␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
16:03 kyclark m: for 'foo'.comb.pairs -> $p { say "{$p.key}: {$p.value}” }
16:03 camelia rakudo-moar f22f89: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3irs -> $p { say "{$p.key}: {$p.value}” }7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        horizontal whitespace…»
16:03 kyclark m: for 'foo'.comb.pairs -> $p { say join ": ", $p.key, $p.value }
16:03 camelia rakudo-moar f22f89: OUTPUT«0: f␤1: o␤2: o␤»
16:04 viki m: for 'foo'.comb.pairs -> :$key, :$value { say join ": ", $key, $value }
16:04 camelia rakudo-moar f22f89: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
16:04 kyclark m: for 'foo'.comb.pairs -> $i => $l { say "$i: $l" }
16:04 camelia rakudo-moar f22f89: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix > instead␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3for 'foo'.comb.pairs -> $i =>7⏏5 $l { say "$i: $l" }␤»
16:04 viki m: for 'foo'.comb.pairs -> (:$key, :$value) { say join ": ", $key, $value }
16:04 camelia rakudo-moar f22f89: OUTPUT«0: f␤1: o␤2: o␤»
16:04 kyclark Ah, interesting viki.
16:07 viki m: for "foo".comb.pairs { say join ": ", $:key, $:value }
16:07 camelia rakudo-moar f22f89: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
16:07 viki too bad :(
16:08 nicq201 for "foo".comb.pairs { say join ": ", $^key, $^value }
16:08 nicq201 oops
16:08 nicq201 m: for "foo".comb.pairs { say join ": ", $^key, $^value }
16:08 camelia rakudo-moar f22f89: OUTPUT«0    f: 1    o␤Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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16:10 viki That just gives you two pairs at a time
16:10 nicq201 Yeah. :/
16:11 viki m: for "foo".comb.kv { say join ": ", $^k, $^v }
16:11 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«0: f␤1: o␤2: o␤»
16:11 viki kyclark: ^ another option, if you don't care for them actually being Pairs
16:12 kyclark Very cool!
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16:15 dalek doc: cb323d5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/variables.pod6:
16:15 dalek doc: Include actual example of '<', ahem, "twigil"
16:15 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/cb323d553a
16:16 viki Interesting how some folks viewed it as a twigil. To me it always looked like a key lookup on an anonymous $
16:20 viki m: "foo" ~~ /$<bar>=\w+/; say .<bar> given $
16:20 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
16:20 viki m: "foo" ~~ /$<bar>=\w+/; $.<bar>
16:20 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unsupported use of $. variable; in Perl 6 please use the .kv method on e.g. .lines␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3"foo" ~~ /$<bar>=\w+/; $.7⏏5<bar>␤»
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16:32 nicq201 Is there some way to grab the signature from a method? I know a sub needs to have the '&' prefix, but how would someone do that for a method?
16:33 [Coke] you can introspect signatures on callables.
16:33 ilmari m: say Str.^can("encode")[0].signature
16:33 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«(Str $: | is raw)␤»
16:34 ilmari m: say Str.^can("encode")».signature
16:34 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«((Str $: | is raw))␤»
16:34 [Coke] there ya go
16:34 viki m: say Str.^lookup("encode").signature
16:35 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«(Str $: | is raw)␤»
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16:35 ilmari hm, that's showing the signature of the proto method, not any of the multis
16:35 ilmari s: Str.encode
16:35 SourceBaby ilmari, Something's wrong: ␤ERR: Cannot unbox a type object (Str) to a str.␤  in block <unit> at -e line 6␤␤
16:35 ilmari s: Str ^encode
16:35 viki s: Str, 'encode'
16:35 SourceBaby ilmari, Something's wrong: â�¤ERR: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling -eâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    encode used at line 6â�¤â�¤
16:35 SourceBaby viki, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/0dc6f79/src/core/Str.pm#L1972
16:35 viki s: Str, 'encode', \()
16:35 SourceBaby viki, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/0dc6f79/src/core/Str.pm#L1979
16:35 viki s: "foo", 'encode', \()
16:35 SourceBaby viki, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/0dc6f79/src/core/Str.pm#L1979
16:35 moritz m: say Str.^lookup("encode").candidates>>.signature
16:35 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«((Str $: Str:D $encoding = "utf8", Bool:D :$replacement, *%_) (Str $: Str:D $encoding = "utf8", Str :$replacement, *%_))␤»
16:36 lizmat http://blogs.perl.org/users/ken_youens-clark/2016/10/pick.html   :-)
16:36 moritz ilmari: ^^ better
16:36 ilmari moritz: ah
16:36 viki m: say Str.^lookup("encode").cando(\(Str))[0].signature
16:36 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«(Str $: Str:D $encoding = "utf8", Str :$replacement, *%_)␤»
16:37 [Coke] zoffix: I'd like to rewrite that so it doesn't call it a twigil as all - that ok with you?
16:37 viki [Coke]: definitely
16:37 [Coke] (guessing so from commit message)
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16:45 [Coke] viki: opened a ticket, assigned it to myself.
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17:26 viki m: my $x = +"423343dasdfas"
17:26 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: ( no output )
17:26 viki m: my Int $x = +"423343dasdfas"
17:26 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«Earlier failure:␤ Cannot convert string to number: trailing characters after number in '423343⏏5dasdfas' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Final error:␤ Type check failed in assignment to $x; expected Int but got Failur…»
17:27 viki never mind :)
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17:50 viki m: my @colors = <b g r x b g r x b g r x>; @colors .= map: {|($^r, $^g, $^b, $^x)}; dd @colors
17:50 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«Array @colors = ["r", "g", "b", "x", "r", "g", "b", "x", "r", "g", "b", "x"]␤»
17:50 viki (Perl 6)++
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18:32 sufrostico can someone help me with this error?
18:32 sufrostico http://pastebin.com/ciBRpN1x
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18:34 RabidGravy looks like an error to me
18:34 viki sufrostico: it's pretty hard to help without having the code that generates that error.
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18:37 sufrostico viki is a minimal example of the Hiker module
18:37 sufrostico http://pastebin.com/ku252UEe
18:37 * skids suspects a symbolic lookup gone bad because the code expects "Grammar" but gets "Template::Mustache::Grammar" and then prepends "Template::Mustache".  And that's abouty as helpful as I can be.
18:38 sufrostico ls
18:38 viki sufrostico: is Template::Mustache installed?
18:38 moritz no such file or directory
18:38 sufrostico moritz: jaja
18:38 sufrostico viki: yes
18:40 sufrostico skids: I'look int that
18:40 RabidGravy eugh, that code in Hiker is scaring me
18:40 skids "smells like templating... I'm outta here!" :-)
18:41 sufrostico RabidGravy: Any other recomendation to a webapp ?
18:42 viki Template::Mustache::Template::Mustache::Grammar is right.
18:46 viki sufrostico: what's your perl6 -v ?
18:47 viki never mind
18:48 viki sufrostico: I've no idea how you got Hiker, but it's failing on installation. And it's failing on Travis.
18:48 RabidGravy let me replicate that locally
18:48 viki m: say "foo":defined
18:48 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤You can't adverb "foo"␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "foo":defined7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        pair value␤»
18:48 viki I'm guessing this syntax hasn't existed for some time
18:48 RabidGravy I noticed it was failing in Travis earlier
18:49 viki No updates since Oct 15, 2015
18:49 * viki does the Mythbusters voice
18:49 viki Well there's your problem!
18:50 dalek doc: 21c9fa9 | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Language/syntax.pod6:
18:50 dalek doc: correct grammar
18:50 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/21c9fa9f20
18:50 viki committable6: 2015.07 m: say "foo":defined
18:50 committable6 viki, ¦«2015.07»: ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/PCopQG2iw6␤You can't adverb that␤at /tmp/PCopQG2iw6:1␤------> m: say "foo":defined⏏<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        pair value «exit code = 1»
18:50 RabidGravy can't be having not working modules
18:50 * viki shrugs
18:51 RabidGravy plus I spent half the day doing Scala, and the other half doing the stupidest meeting ever so I need something to fix
18:51 viki \o/
18:51 viki RabidGravy++
18:52 RabidGravy well for starters HTTP::Server::Async isn't working either
18:53 viki heh
18:53 harmil_wk Question for the Perl 6 historians in the room: It's my memory that one of the very first design decisions in terms of a syntax for a new feature was smart-match and given/when. Is that just my memory playing tricks on me?
18:54 viki RabidGravy: funny enough, I'm currently hunting a bug in Proc::Async :) The failures run dep
18:54 viki *deep
18:54 moritz harmil_wk: they were among the first features ported to p5
18:54 geekosaur harmil_wk, you can check, see the Apocalypses at http://design.perl6.org/
18:54 moritz harmil_wk: dunno if they were actually among the first p6 syntax features
18:56 geekosaur not sure if you can pull the repo (they may be in the pugs repo?) and search their history
18:56 harmil_wk Apocalypses were after a lot of the post-RFC discussion, though... and some syntax was settled before them.
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19:11 viki I mean.. in IO::Socket::Async >_<>
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19:22 RabidGravy ah just remembered why I didn't try to fix HTTP::Server::Async before
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19:24 viki Why?
19:30 viki Whyy? :)
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19:38 RabidGravy because unfortunately there is some namespace clashage between the HTTP::Response of HTTP::Server and the HTTP::Response of HTTP::UserAgent
19:38 RabidGravy but never fear, fully quilified names work now
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19:51 seatek RabidGravy++
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20:24 seatek anyone know? Passing named arguments to method through a hash -- this works: meth(|%CFG«keyname») -- however, if I make "keyname" into a variable instead, it doesn't work using |%CFG«$.keyname» but does using |%CFG{$.keyname}
20:25 geekosaur «» is implicit quoting
20:26 geekosaur foo«x» is the same as foo{"x"}, and it probably doesn't expand $.keyname the way you expect when quoted
20:27 geekosaur likewise foo<x> is foo{'x'}
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20:29 FROGGS I'd think that this should work: |%CFG«$.keyname()»
20:30 FROGGS because $.keyname is a method call, and these need parenthesis to interpolate, right?
20:31 FROGGS m: my $a = "foo"; say "$a.uc"; say "$a.uc()"
20:31 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«foo.uc␤FOO␤»
20:31 FROGGS like in here^^
20:31 geekosaur but it's different for $.
20:31 seatek doesn't seem to when I try FROGGS
20:32 FROGGS geekosaur: why?
20:32 geekosaur m: class A {has $.foo = "bar"; method x {my %h = :1bar; %h«$.foo»}}; my A $a .= new; say $a.x;
20:32 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«(1)␤»
20:32 geekosaur this works... ?
20:32 geekosaur m: class A {has $.foo = "bar"; method x {my %h = :6bar; %h«$.foo»}}; my A $a .= new; say $a.x;
20:32 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«(6)␤»
20:33 seatek it doesn't allow the hash to be interpreted as "named arguments" ;)
20:33 seatek it only does when i use %CFG{$.keyname}
20:33 seatek it only does when i use |%CFG{$.keyname}
20:34 seatek it only does when i use |%CFG«$.keyname()» error is )contsturctor only takes named arguments
20:34 geekosaur oh
20:34 seatek yeah
20:34 geekosaur I bet this is that business where it expands in the wrong context again
20:35 seatek yeah it seemed strange so i thought i'd mention it
20:37 geekosaur s/expands/interpolates/
20:37 FROGGS I dont understand....
20:37 FROGGS m: sub foo(*%h) { say %h }; my %x = bar => 'baz', quux => 'qaax'; my $bar = 'bar'; foo |%x{$bar}
20:37 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
20:37 FROGGS m: sub foo(*%h) { say %h }; my %x = bar => 'baz', quux => 'qaax'; my $bar = 'bar'; foo |%x
20:37 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«{bar => baz, quux => qaax}␤»
20:37 FROGGS I'd like to see a one-liner here where |%CFG{$.keyname} does something...
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20:37 RabidGravy eugh https://travis-ci.org/sergot/http-useragent/builds/171489441
20:38 RabidGravy don't like the look of that
20:38 seatek FROGGS, I'll try to recreate an example of it without having to using all the class/method stuff that surrounds it
20:39 FROGGS seatek: that'd be awesome :o)
20:40 FROGGS RabidGravy: precomp isnt happy, but I can't even guess what my be wrong
20:40 seatek FROGGS: I'll need coffee first though ;)
20:41 RabidGravy yeah, but I can't see anything changed that would provoke it
20:41 * RabidGravy restarts the build
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20:43 ugexe m: sub foo(*%h) { say %h.perl }; class Bar { has $.keyname = "key"; method cfg { my %CFG = a => 1, key => 2 => 3; foo(|%(%CFG<<$.keyname>>)) }; }; say Bar.new.cfg
20:43 camelia rakudo-moar 0dc6f7: OUTPUT«{"2" => 3}␤True␤»
20:44 ugexe s/|%CFG<<...>>/|%(%CFG<<...>>)/
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20:53 RabidGravy FROGGS, on a second attempt it passed, often see weird like that on travis
20:55 FROGGS a hiccup then...
20:56 seatek ugexe: didn't work with preceding |%(%CFG... either... so far only |%CFG{$.keyname} works
20:57 RabidGravy well now,  after fixing the syntax error in Hiker::Router I can now replicate the previous error
21:01 seatek FROGGS: ok got it for you
21:02 seatek class C { has $.name; has $.pass; }; class D { method try(){ my %CFG = cfg1 => { name => 'myname', pass => 'mypass'}; my $c = C.new(|%CFG<<cfg1>>); return $c;}}; my $c = D.new.try;
21:02 seatek m: class C { has $.name; has $.pass; }; class D { method try(){ my %CFG = cfg1 => { name => 'myname', pass => 'mypass'}; my $c = C.new(|%CFG<<cfg1>>); return $c;}}; my $c = D.new.try;
21:02 camelia rakudo-moar f50e39: ( no output )
21:02 seatek works fine
21:02 seatek use a variable inside «» -- doesn't work fine
21:03 seatek m: class C { has $.name; has $.pass; }; class D { method try(){ my %CFG = cfg1 => { name => 'myname', pass => 'mypass'}; my $key = 'cfg1';  my $c = C.new(|%CFG<<$key>>); return $c;}}; my $c = D.new.try;
21:03 camelia rakudo-moar f50e39: OUTPUT«Default constructor for 'C' only takes named arguments␤  in method try at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
21:03 seatek only named arguements
21:03 seatek BUT if you use the {} notation with a variable, it works fine
21:03 seatek m: class C { has $.name; has $.pass; }; class D { method try(){ my %CFG = cfg1 => { name => 'myname', pass => 'mypass'}; my $key = 'cfg1';  my $c = C.new(|%CFG{$key}); return $c;}}; my $c = D.new.try;
21:03 camelia rakudo-moar f50e39: ( no output )
21:04 geekosaur ah, that's another difference
21:05 geekosaur you are interpolating a hash and I was interpolating a string. so this is probably tripping over the ambiguity between hashes/Pairs and named params :/
21:05 seatek yes
21:05 FROGGS m: my %CFG = cfg1 => { name => 'myname', pass => 'mypass'}; my $key = 'cfg1'; dd %CFG<<$key>>
21:05 camelia rakudo-moar f50e39: OUTPUT«(${:name("myname"), :pass("mypass")},)␤»
21:05 FROGGS that's a List
21:05 FROGGS m: my %CFG = cfg1 => { name => 'myname', pass => 'mypass'}; my $key = 'cfg1'; dd %CFG<<cfg1>>
21:05 camelia rakudo-moar f50e39: OUTPUT«Hash %CFG = ${:name("myname"), :pass("mypass")}␤»
21:05 geekosaur but it's being |d
21:06 FROGGS and this is not
21:06 FROGGS see?
21:06 seatek yeah -- i see
21:07 FROGGS m: my %CFG = cfg1 => { name => 'myname', pass => 'mypass'}; my $key = 'cfg1'; dd %CFG<<$key>>.hash
21:07 camelia rakudo-moar f50e39: OUTPUT«Odd number of elements found where hash initializer expected:␤Only saw: ${:name("myname"), :pass("mypass")}␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
21:07 FROGGS m: my %CFG = cfg1 => { name => 'myname', pass => 'mypass'}; my $key = 'cfg1'; dd %CFG<<$key>>».hash
21:07 camelia rakudo-moar f50e39: OUTPUT«({:name("myname"), :pass("mypass")},)␤»
21:08 FROGGS m: class C { has $.name; has $.pass; }; class D { method try(){ my %CFG = cfg1 => { name => 'myname', pass => 'mypass'}; my $key = 'cfg1';  my $c = C.new(|%CFG<<$key>>».hash.hash); return $c;}}; my $c = D.new.try;
21:08 camelia rakudo-moar f50e39: ( no output )
21:09 FROGGS there might be a less ugly solution out there
21:09 seatek yeah just use {} -- they work ;)
21:09 FROGGS true
21:11 seatek but it's certainly not obvious
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21:14 FROGGS aye
21:14 RabidGravy if the guy who asked about Hiker earlier shows up I just fixed it :)
21:14 RabidGravy if tony-o shows up tell him he has incoming :)
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21:17 ugexe m: class C { has $.name; has $.pass; }; class D { method try(){ my %CFG = cfg1 => { name => "myname", pass => "mypass"}; my $key = "cfg1";  my $c = C.new(|%CFG<<"$key">>); return $c;}}; say D.new.try;
21:17 camelia rakudo-moar 4034f7: OUTPUT«C.new(name => "myname", pass => "mypass")␤»
21:17 ugexe s/<<$key>>/<<"$key">>/
21:21 seatek ugexe: oddly that works! but that's just 1 more bit of insanity i'm unwilling to go down. ;)
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21:32 MasterDuke .tell moritz i'm good, it worked with Chrome
21:32 yoleaux MasterDuke: I'll pass your message to moritz.
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21:45 * TimToady waves from Puerto Vallarta
21:46 TimToady smartmatching was starting to come into focus in about 2006, Apocalypse 4 was written
21:47 * TimToady is done with his opening keynote, so can pay attention to Real Life™ again
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21:54 ugexe seatek: get the best of all worlds and use C.new(|%CFG<<"{$key}">>)
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21:55 geekosaur oyyyy
21:56 Herby_ joined #perl6
21:56 Herby_ o/
21:56 viki \o
22:02 harmil_wk TimToady: Thanks for the context
22:02 harmil_wk I guess it was much later than I thought.
22:04 seatek ugexe: if i didn't just finish working on the well, i'd have jumped down in it. :)
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22:09 TimToady harmil_wk: yes, back then we though Perl 6 could be much more like Perl 5, until we actually started trying to mesh many different concepts while also simplifying
22:10 TimToady *thought
22:11 geekosaur smartmatching was an early train wreck in that regard. perl 5 imported the original smartmatching, which turned out to be broken in the same way it is in perl 5 (duh)
22:11 geekosaur it was redesigned in perl 6 to be type-based
22:12 TimToady well, it was already type-based when P5 borrowed it, but they had to fake types, so it didn't work so well
22:12 TimToady also, it was symmetrical when they borrowed it, and later we decided that was a mistake
22:13 TimToady if it's symmetrical, you can't ever optimize when 1...when 2...when 3 into a jump table
22:13 imcsk8 TimToady: hello, i'm the guy that asked you the daemon stuff
22:13 TimToady because some type on the left could always ask for a different interpretation
22:14 TimToady imcsk8: howdy!
22:14 TimToady I'm so far away!
22:14 El_Che_ TimToady: http://www.oreilly.com/programming/free/files/2016-european-software-development-salary-survey.pdf <-- page 52: Perl 6 in mentioned in FUTURE PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES
22:15 El_Che_ (INTENT TO LEARN)
22:15 TimToady well, I should hope so :)
22:15 viki Note to self: ensure IRC::Client problem got resolved before you go and update Perl 6 and restart all the bots on three different boxes, to get the latest Rakudo :(
22:15 TimToady but it's also in the present :)
22:16 viki heh, oreilly.com? More like "Future books O'Reilly wants to turn profit on" survey :)
22:16 El_Che_ maybe we need to raise DrForr bonus. He maybe enough people at FOSDEM to give Perl6 a try (or he did fill a lot of questionaire) ;)
22:16 imcsk8 TimToady: yeah!! unreachable :P
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22:18 TimToady imcsk8: unfortunately DNS does not seem to be feeling well, so it will be difficult to give links to anything
22:19 TimToady well, difficult for me; other people shouldn't have any trouble...
22:20 imcsk8 TimToady: the network here is not that good
22:21 TimToady I'm on the irc here because I have a hardwired IP address to my home server, where I actually run irssi
22:27 imcsk8 yup me too
22:31 japhb TimToady: Does 8.8.8.8 work for you?
22:32 japhb It's Google's external DNS
22:32 geekosaur ob https://xkcd.com/1361/
22:33 viki heh
22:33 TimToady yeah, 8.8.8.8 works better, thanks
22:33 notostraca TimToady: AT&T U-Verse service was having some bizarre maintenance they were doing in my area. half of all websites were non-load-able
22:33 TimToady I even knew that...
22:34 TimToady well, I'm in Puerto Vallarta at the moment...
22:34 notostraca also, 4.2.2.1 through 4.2.2.6 are Level3's public DNS servers
22:34 TimToady so could just be hotel's DNS is overwhelmed, as often happens when a bunch of computer geeks descend on an unsuspecting hotel
22:34 notostraca :)
22:35 geekosaur most of them are pretty craptacular, yeh
22:37 japhb From the PDF El_Che posted: "Four coefficients are associated with
22:37 japhb past languages: Bash (+$6,322), Clojure
22:37 japhb (+$12,549), Objective-C (–$3,869) and
22:37 japhb Perl 6 (+$14,743)."
22:38 japhb So if Perl 6 is a *past* language for you, you make $15K a year more?
22:38 japhb Maybe because you own a time machine?
22:38 viki :D
22:38 El_Che they meant perl5 probably
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22:39 viki I stand by my original statement. They're just generating customers for upcoming books.
22:45 TimToady seatek: note that when you use a pattern like /a ** 1..10.Int/ it really means /a ** 1..10 . 'Int'/
22:45 TimToady those are not general expressions
22:45 TimToady that's why we require {} for anything fancier than an integer range
22:46 labster joined #perl6
22:48 seatek TimToady: ok that makes sense. Yeah, in playing with that, it "felt" like ranges were their own object -- one thing, rather than 2 things working on a defined operation
22:49 TimToady we had to draw the line somewhere, and that seemed like a reasonable place :)
22:50 TimToady basically, we wanted a direct translation for p5's {1,3} notation, but nothing fancier (without {})
22:51 seatek yeah there must have been tons of decisions like that. and what trips you up in one place, makes another place seem like perfect sense.
22:52 TimToady it's tradeoffs, all the way down, when it isn't turtles
22:52 seatek :)
22:56 seatek so far I've been loving exploring it. I've been translating stuff from p5 into it, and doing a couple new little things, to start becoming familiar.
22:58 seatek there have been a few quirks. and i think it's probably just as hard a call to determine what is a quirk that needs to be fixed to behave how people might expect it to, vs that's just a quirk of the language that people will have to learn in order to cope
22:59 TimToady most of those we've run into already, and decided one way or another, but occasionally someone finds a new one :)
23:00 seatek that's what i've been trusting in to control my rage ;)
23:01 TimToady it's okay to ragequit as long as you come back later :)
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23:02 seatek naw the good BY FAR outweighs irritations with little quirks here and there
23:02 seatek at least so far. i haven't done any long-running rewrites of things yet ;)
23:04 TimToady well, looks like things are going all social here, so I'd better sign off for now
23:04 TimToady not to mention battery life...
23:04 TimToady afk &
23:04 timotimo o/
23:04 seatek bye bye
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23:33 BenGoldberg m: dd 1..0
23:33 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«1..0␤»
23:33 BenGoldberg m: dd 0..1
23:33 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«0..1␤»
23:33 BenGoldberg m: 0..1.say
23:33 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of ".." in expression "0..1.say" in sink context (line 1)␤1␤»
23:33 BenGoldberg m: (0..1).say
23:33 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«0..1␤»
23:33 BenGoldberg m: (0..1).perl.say
23:33 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«0..1␤»
23:33 BenGoldberg m: (0..1).gist.say
23:33 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«0..1␤»
23:33 BenGoldberg m: (0..1).WHAT.say
23:33 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«(Range)␤»
23:33 BenGoldberg m: (0..1).WHY.say
23:33 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
23:34 BenGoldberg m: (1..0).WHAT.say
23:34 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«(Range)␤»
23:34 BenGoldberg m: (1..0).[&+].say
23:34 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Missing required term after infix␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3(1..0).[&+7⏏5].say␤    expecting any of:␤        prefix␤        term␤»
23:34 timotimo m: say (5..7.say)
23:34 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«7␤5..Bool::True␤»
23:34 timotimo :P
23:34 timotimo it gives you the return value of "say" as the end point of the range
23:34 timotimo when you do 0..1.say
23:35 BenGoldberg m: say( 7..5 );
23:35 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«7..5␤»
23:35 BenGoldberg m: ( 7..5 ).WHAT.say;
23:35 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«(Range)␤»
23:35 BenGoldberg m: ( 7..5 ).elems.say;
23:35 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«0␤»
23:35 BenGoldberg m: ( 7...5 ).elems.say;
23:35 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«3␤»
23:36 BenGoldberg m: ( 7...5 ).say;
23:36 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«(7 6 5)␤»
23:36 BenGoldberg m: ( 7...5 ).WHAT.say;
23:36 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«(Seq)␤»
23:36 BenGoldberg m: ( 5...7 ).WHAT.say;
23:36 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«(Seq)␤»
23:37 BenGoldberg m: ( 5...7 ).dd.say;
23:37 camelia rakudo-moar 627a77: OUTPUT«No such method 'dd' for invocant of type 'Seq'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
23:39 timotimo do we have anything that has a dd method?
23:39 canopus_ joined #perl6
23:40 wamba joined #perl6
23:43 kurahaupo__ joined #perl6
23:44 dalek doc: 86f110c | (Francis Grizzly Smit)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6:
23:44 dalek doc: fixed >= doc to say greater than or equal instead of less than
23:44 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/86f110c2e9
23:52 Sgeo joined #perl6
23:57 bjz joined #perl6
23:59 viki m: class { method dd { dd "sure" } }.dd

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