Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-10-31

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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02:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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07:01 samcv hmm i'm getting a sequence back from comb, but i need to test for if there's anything in the sequence. defined shows that it is defined even if printing it out just gives me “()”
07:02 samcv i guess i can use elems, but is there some other way to do it?
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07:10 [ptc] samcv: () should be False, so a boolean expression should be ok
07:10 [ptc] m: if () { say 24 } else { say 42 }
07:10 camelia rakudo-moar 4fdf6d: OUTPUT«42␤»
07:11 samcv does this not coerce as boolean? say $var if $var;
07:11 samcv that doesn't work at least
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07:11 seatek m: my @s = ();  say "it's got something in it" if @s;
07:11 camelia rakudo-moar 4fdf6d: ( no output )
07:11 samcv that works most of the time but
07:12 samcv for some reason it will print out ones with 1 elements
07:12 seatek m: my @s = ['goofy'];  say "it's got something in it" if @s;
07:12 camelia rakudo-moar 4fdf6d: OUTPUT«it's got something in it␤»
07:12 samcv unless i do my $v = $fh.comb(/regex/); print $v if $v.elems;
07:13 samcv that's an array though not a Seq
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07:13 samcv sometimse Seq will evaluate as true, even with 0 elements
07:14 seatek m: my @s = ('goofy');  say "it's got something in it" if @s;
07:14 camelia rakudo-moar 4fdf6d: OUTPUT«it's got something in it␤»
07:14 seatek even if you use .elems or does elems always work?
07:15 seatek m: my @s = ();  say "it's got something in it" if @s;
07:15 camelia rakudo-moar 4fdf6d: ( no output )
07:15 samcv no elems always works
07:16 seatek must be sunspots
07:16 samcv possibly
07:16 seatek ;)
07:16 samcv or could be related to file encodings?
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07:16 samcv or sunspots
07:17 samcv it's not always reproducing... so
07:17 samcv weird
07:17 seatek maybe something lingers in an element between tests?
07:17 samcv maybe
07:17 seatek are you clearing it out well?
07:18 samcv how should i be clearing it out?
07:18 seatek @s = () should work;
07:19 samcv well i'm doing it using await do
07:19 samcv so i think it should be lexically scoped
07:20 seatek threaded stuff? you may be getting results from another thread then?
07:20 samcv http://vpaste.net/ZI542
07:20 samcv this is what i'm doing
07:21 samcv some reason it's printing out matches that like. have spaces in them
07:21 samcv https://cry.nu/p/7qi9
07:21 samcv this is what it prints out
07:22 samcv even doing just  $fh.comb( /<[ \x[00] .. \x[09]  ]>/ );
07:22 samcv so it does only one range gets me this: https://cry.nu/p/ee7s/
07:23 samcv it shouldn't be finding anything since they're all unprintable characters
07:24 samcv if i print without checking elems or what bool coerces to i get like thousands of () in addition to those. so idk what's going on
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07:24 samcv maybe i don't understand comb?
07:27 samcv if i do:  my $string =  $fh.comb( /<[abc]>/ ); i get https://cry.nu/p/il92
07:27 samcv so that is only printing out places where the actual letters are occuring
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07:30 seatek well comb should only be returning what you tell it to return... if you're telling it to return non-printables... i don't know what it might look like when you try to print them
07:30 samcv well i'm 99% sure those don't exist in the files
07:30 samcv also it doesn't actually print any unprintables
07:31 samcv it just prints spaces
07:31 samcv i've checked a hexviewer
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07:34 samcv yes i just double checked it. none of the files have any of those special characters
07:34 samcv i checked all 'control characters' except for tab newline and carriage return
07:35 samcv chr 0 - chr 27 and also chr 127; none of them have it
07:35 samcv ^those above except for \n \r and \t i mean
07:36 samcv maybe there's something other than comb i can use to check the full file for those control characters other than comb?
07:36 samcv i mean i could do it by line. but i was hoping for something more elegant
07:38 seatek well i'm not sure what the control structure around it is... but one weird thing, I just looked, and it says it's lazy, so if you iterate through it once, that's all you got unless you cache it i think
07:39 seatek not sure it that could be related to what you're seeing. sorry, i'm insane myself right now with grammars, trying to get used to them
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07:40 samcv hah k
07:41 seatek you can always read it into a proper array instead
07:41 seatek of the scalar
07:41 samcv the whole file?
07:41 samcv i could
07:41 seatek the comb
07:41 samcv oh
07:42 seatek @strings = $fh.comb... blah blah
07:42 samcv won't it stay lazy? or is a way to like
07:42 samcv unlazy it. or will an array auto do that
07:43 samcv also idk why calling is-lazy on it says it's not lazy
07:43 samcv m: "abcd".comb(/z/).is-lazy.say
07:43 camelia rakudo-moar 4fdf6d: OUTPUT«False␤»
07:44 seatek honestly i don't know that. i have a feeling that reading it into an array would pull them all in
07:44 samcv says same thing when i do it on $fh.comb ...
07:45 seatek they would stick around between multiple iterations that way though if that's what your problem is
07:45 seatek otherwise i think you have to do something with cacheing,
07:46 seatek which i know nothing about yet
07:50 samcv maybe i will try it a few ways and see which is fastest
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08:01 nine samcv: if you only want to check if certain characters are there, why not just match it against a regex?
08:01 samcv isn't that what comb does?
08:01 samcv it accepts a regex
08:01 samcv but yes i can do that too
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09:15 nine samcv: comb splits a string into individual characters (like running a comb through hair). Maybe the docs emphasize the usage with a pattern bit too much.
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09:16 masak comb only splits into individual characters by default
09:16 masak but the analogy still holds up when you pass it a regex
09:17 masak that is, you "comb out" the interesting bits from the (hairy) string
09:17 FROGGS o/
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09:22 samcv ah ok masak
09:23 samcv someday maybe this will run as fast in perl 6 as in perl ;3 takes 0.7 secs in perl 5 and 10 seconds in perl 6. but
09:24 samcv fastest was slurping the files and then using regex to check if it had those characters in it. but for some reason that's not any faster without doing await/do/start
09:24 samcv though doing comb it goes from 20 secs to 12 secs doing it with/without await/do/start
09:25 samcv it does spawn more processes though. so that is happening
09:28 samcv well.. it is 1 second faster but a 10% speed improvement from using 8 more threads isn't anything. plus it uses more cpu for doing the same work
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09:45 Roamer` hi, are there any known issues with using non-greedy * matches within a grammar?
09:45 Roamer` in particularly, it always failing? :)
09:47 Roamer` something like (sorry, somewhat long...)
09:47 Roamer` m: grammar g { regex TOP {<b>*}; regex b {'H'<c>*}; regex c {<[A..Za..z]>}; }; class ac { method TOP($/) { make $<b>».made }; method b($/) { make $<c>».Str.join(", ") }; }; my $m = g.new.parse("HabcHdef", :actions(ac.new)); $m?? ("parsed:\n" ~ $m.made.perl).say!! "failed".say
09:47 camelia rakudo-moar 4fdf6d: OUTPUT«parsed:␤["a, b, c, H, d, e, f"]␤»
09:47 Roamer` m: grammar g { regex TOP {<b>*}; regex b {'H'<c>*?}; regex c {<[A..Za..z]>}; }; class ac { method TOP($/) { make $<b>».made }; method b($/) { make $<c>».Str.join(", ") }; }; my $m = g.new.parse("HabcHdef", :actions(ac.new)); $m?? ("parsed:\n" ~ $m.made.perl).say!! "failed".say
09:47 camelia rakudo-moar 4fdf6d: OUTPUT«failed␤»
09:47 Roamer` the only difference between the two is that regex b has *? instead of *
09:48 Roamer` and, yes, I explicitly want to have <c> match something that should also be matched by the start of the next block; what I'm really parsing is weird that way :/
09:49 Roamer` okay, no, I don't want it to *match* it, I want it to *be able* to match it, but be stopped by the non-greedy match in <b>
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10:22 Roamer` I actually managed to do what I wanted with a [ <!before <blah> '' ] thing, but still is there a reason why *? doesn't work in grammars? :)
10:24 moritz I guess some backtracking wonkiness
10:24 moritz it should work, afaict
10:37 masak surely that example can be golf'd a little
10:39 jnthn What if you add an explicit $ at the end of TOP, ooc?
10:39 jnthn I *think* that .parse checks that your grammar really did eat the whole input
10:39 masak it does
10:41 jnthn But that's an after-the-fact check
10:41 jnthn It doesn't affect the matching behavior
10:41 jnthn It's on you to make sure your grammar reaches the string end
10:42 masak m: grammar G { regex TOP { x } }; say G.parse("xy")
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar feb7bc: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
10:42 jnthn m: grammar g { regex TOP {<b>*$}; regex b {'H'<c>*?}; regex c {<[A..Za..z]>}; }; class ac { method TOP($/) { make $<b>».made }; method b($/) { make $<c>».Str.join(", ") }; }; my $m = g.new.parse("HabcHdef", :actions(ac.new)); $m?? ("parsed:\n" ~ $m.made.perl).say!! "failed".say
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar feb7bc: OUTPUT«parsed:␤["a, b, c", "d, e, f"]␤»
10:42 jnthn Seems the $ does it
10:43 masak ok, so #notabug
10:43 jnthn Don't think so, no
10:43 masak glad to hear quantifier backtracking ain't busted :P
10:43 masak well, not by this, at least :P
10:43 jnthn Me too, 'cus I've already got enough to fix :P
10:44 * masak .oO( quick, everyone stop finding more bugs! )
10:45 jnthn :P
10:46 masak it's a well known fact that using software makes the software more buggy
10:46 masak I guess that... makes me Perl 6's public enemy #1 o.O
10:47 jnthn It doesn't make it more buggy, it just makes one aware how buggy it is :P
10:48 masak no, literally more buggy
10:48 masak it's like bitrot and blue smoke
10:48 jnthn ;)
10:48 masak the act of using the software also destroys it
10:48 masak often on a design level
10:48 masak this is why we have to keep writing new software all the time, because of its poor shelf-life
10:52 masak it also explains Schrödinbugs (that manifest in software only after someone notices that it never should have worked)
10:52 masak because it's the *attention* paid to the software that's the destructive influence
11:05 bonsaikitten I'd say the problem is the lack of upfront engineering
11:05 bonsaikitten so we fix things by adding yet another layer of duct tape
11:06 bonsaikitten but at some point the pipe will still leak, and rebuilding the pipe properly is too expensive
11:06 bonsaikitten ... and apparently adding another layer of tape isn't?
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12:11 dalek Inline-Perl5: 8e1b812 | niner++ | p5helper.c:
12:11 dalek Inline-Perl5: Remove obsolete arguments of p5_rebless_object
12:11 dalek Inline-Perl5:
12:11 dalek Inline-Perl5: These arguments haven't been needed since "Simplify callback handling" and
12:11 dalek Inline-Perl5: were no longer passed by Perl 6 code.
12:11 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/8e1b812c61
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12:22 dalek Inline-Perl5: f237dfc | niner++ | p5helper.c:
12:22 dalek Inline-Perl5: Factor out common code of callback XS functions
12:22 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/f237dfc49e
12:22 dalek Inline-Perl5: 69f8827 | niner++ | p5helper.c:
12:22 dalek Inline-Perl5: Factor out common code of p5 call functions.
12:22 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/69f8827da5
12:24 viki The Mac link on http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ is a 404 again
12:26 moritz :(
12:27 dalek Inline-Perl5: c14d79e | niner++ | lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6:
12:27 dalek Inline-Perl5: Remove unneeded variables.
12:27 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/c14d79efa8
12:28 viki And wiki still lists 2016.07 as latest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6
12:28 viki Stable Perl 6 is 9 months old. Time to call a midwife.
12:30 masak updating Wikipedia used to be part of the release guide
12:31 masak dunno if it still is nowadays
12:31 viki It still is, so I don't know if it was just missed or done on purpose.
12:32 masak hard to imagine the latter
12:32 masak maybe it's something to do with the new automated-release system?
12:32 masak just a guess -- I haven't been paying enough attention to know
12:32 viki Nope. Star doesn't have automated release systems.
12:37 [Coke] this came up a few days ago: the open a ticket via the web link on RT was disabled due to a spam storm in the p5 queue. Needs to be spam proofed before it is re-enabled.
12:39 [Coke] volunteers welcome on the spam proofing.
12:39 viki OK. Where's the code?
12:41 [Coke] no clue. I opened a ticket, that was the response I got from Robert Spier
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12:46 nine I now have a find_shadow_magic function in Inline::Perl5's C code and the name is actually proper and very descriptive. Sometimes I just love this :)
12:47 [Coke] (I am happy to put people in touch with Robert if they want to volunteer)
12:48 viki It's hard to volunteer without knowing any of the details. What's "spam proofing" to Robert? Sticking a reCAPTCHA on the new ticket form would be my idea. But is that suitable (or even possible), considering that introduces custom modifications to RT?
12:56 masak I've always been happy submitting via email. maybe I'm in a minority, but I wouldn't start using a button in the web interface just because one became available
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12:59 [Coke] viki: you'd have to have a conversation with him.
13:02 viki masak: IME, email doesn't always work (I know at least one ticket of mine didn't go through). I also have to re-login from my regular account to my RT account each time I want to send an email :/
13:04 masak I switch Gmail accounts all day. doesn't bother me much ;) YMMV
13:04 masak I don't recall RT tickets ever not registering when sending by email -- though I believe you when you say it happened to you
13:05 masak anyway, main point is it works fine for me, which is why I don't feel a big need for the button
13:05 viki I don't use gmail, but my own thing.... maybe that's why it didn't go through (got lost in spam)
13:05 masak I won't complain if someone goes through the motions of making the button work :) just won't use it
13:05 [Coke] initializator ?
13:07 dalek doc: 41bb002 | coke++ | xt/aspell.t:
13:07 dalek doc: don't hardcode 'perl6'
13:07 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/41bb002f67
13:07 dalek doc: 7cbfa39 | coke++ | doc/Language/variables.pod6:
13:07 dalek doc: fix typo
13:07 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7cbfa3933e
13:07 dalek doc: 873aa61 | coke++ | xt/code.pws:
13:07 dalek doc: new code word
13:07 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/873aa61e15
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13:33 nicq201 Hello! o/
13:34 viki |o
13:34 masak m: say "hi, nicq201!"
13:34 camelia rakudo-moar fb0c64: OUTPUT«hi, nicq201!␤»
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13:41 dalek Inline-Perl5: 8a75fe7 | niner++ | / (2 files):
13:41 dalek Inline-Perl5: Lazily create Perl6 shadow object instead of overriding CORE::GLOBAL::bless
13:41 dalek Inline-Perl5:
13:41 dalek Inline-Perl5: Even overriding CORE::GLOBAL::bless is not global enough, as it won't catch
13:41 dalek Inline-Perl5: objects created by XS code. Also, slowing down all constructors by just loading
13:41 dalek Inline-Perl5: Inline::Perl5 won't do wonders for our marketing.
13:41 dalek Inline-Perl5:
13:41 dalek Inline-Perl5: Instead, create the Perl 6 shadow object lazily when one of the extension
13:41 dalek Inline-Perl5: methods is accessed for the first time. The check if we need to do this should
13:41 dalek Inline-Perl5: be dirt cheap and will probably not even be measurable.
13:41 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/8a75fe7353
13:41 nine mst: done ^^^ :)
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14:14 dalek modules.perl6.org: 01324eb | (Zak B. Elep)++ | assets/js/dataTables.filter.perlModule.js:
14:14 dalek modules.perl6.org: Add filter plugin for dataTables
14:14 dalek modules.perl6.org:
14:14 dalek modules.perl6.org: This is a simple client-side plugin for handling Perl module names in
14:14 dalek modules.perl6.org: DataTables.
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14:53 viki Happy Christmas!
14:54 viki m: say 0o31
14:54 camelia rakudo-moar cb8f78: OUTPUT«25␤»
14:54 masak m: say :10<25> == :8<31>
14:54 camelia rakudo-moar cb8f78: OUTPUT«True␤»
14:54 masak m: say 25.base(8) eq "31"
14:54 camelia rakudo-moar cb8f78: OUTPUT«True␤»
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15:26 viki Buncha lang rankings: http://techbeacon.com/programming-language-rankings-which-ones-matter
15:26 * viki is amused by Ruby ranking below Perl and Delphi in TIOBE
15:26 viki Didn't realize anyone even used Delphi these days.
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15:31 moritz the TIOBE ranking is horseshit
15:31 viki agreed
15:31 moritz (and I say that whether they say good or bad things about perl)
15:32 moritz if metacpan.org puts a "perl programming" in the footer of each page it renders, perl would be like, 5 places higher than before
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15:37 lizmat so why doesn't metacpan.org do that ?
15:39 moritz dunno, I never asked them
15:40 viki Well, it's not *that* easy. You need to game google, which will indirectly will game TIOBE
15:40 viki Well, and other search engines.
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15:41 moritz but doesn't tiobe just look at the number of pages with some specific terms on them?
15:42 moritz and google just counts, it doesn't feel gamed, does it?
15:42 viki From TIOBE Wikipedia page: "TIOBE index is sensitive to the ranking policy of the search engines on which it is based. For instance, in April 2004 Google performed a cleanup action to get rid of unfair attempts to promote the search rank. As a consequence, there was a large drop for languages such as Java and C++, yet these languages have stayed at the top of the table"
15:44 nicq20 I am surprised that Java is so high in the list for all of them.
15:45 lizmat I guess to an extent the metric is really how much a language has DWIM
15:45 viki And how good its info resources are.
15:46 viki oh wait, that would still show up in google. Never mind :)
15:47 viki Heh. Looks like moritz isn't the only one with the idea: https://blog.timbunce.org/2009/05/17/tiobe-index-is-being-gamed/
15:48 viki And yeah, Delphi did show up unusually high, but that just made me question validity of TIOBE, not go "wow, I better pick up Delphi again"
15:48 viki So all these rankings aren't as useful as people seem to think IMO
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15:58 nicq20 Looking at that list, PHP is one of those funny languages where it is difficult to use (the syntax changes with every version) but it is very useful for web.
15:58 nicq20 Funny it's ranked so high.
15:59 lizmat the only time I've used PHP in production (and that was 20+ years ago), was before mod_perl existed
15:59 lizmat and the PHP was generated by a Perl script every minute
15:59 lizmat reduced the database load quite significantly  :-)
16:01 dalek doc: fea3925 | gfldex++ | doc/Type/Metamodel/ClassHOW.pod6:
16:01 dalek doc: doc Metamodel::ClassHOW.lookup
16:01 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fea39252a8
16:03 viki The only time I used it is on wargaming sites on challenges where you have to explot a PHP script :}
16:04 moritz viki: I've probably read that blog post in the past, so it wasn't even an original thought
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16:06 nicq20 Being able to put HTML right in PHP scripts is pretty useful though.
16:06 viki .... when writing unmaintainable tangled mess :)
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16:07 nicq20 Lolz! Especially when trying to fix 10+ year old sites.
16:10 nicq20 Huh. I wonder if there is some kind of way to get the same kind of functionality with Perl6.
16:12 timotimo sure. build a slang for it if you must.
16:13 viki nicq20: just use a HERE doc?
16:14 timotimo viki: they want a piece of text that automatically outputs itself to stdout when "encountered"
16:14 nicq20 I suppose that could work. But it would be difficult to do inline stuff.
16:15 nicq20 timotimo: I thought slangs only replace the regular interpreter, instead of build off it.
16:16 timotimo in that case you were wrong :)
16:17 timotimo you can replace the language completely, but it's usually more useful to add some stuff in and keep the rest
16:18 viki m: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/9d166d9edfd833db673d6f775037937f
16:18 nicq20 timotimo: Huh, makes sense. Know of any examples?
16:18 camelia rakudo-moar 221633: OUTPUT«<!DOCTYPE html>␤<html lang="en">␤    <meta charset="utf-8">␤    <title>Today's Time and Date>␤␤    <h1>It's 2016-10-31T17:18:28.553122+01:00 right now!</h1>␤␤»
16:18 timotimo there are modules in the ecosystem that have "Slang" in their name
16:18 viki nicq20: http://modules.perl6.org/dist/Slang::Roman
16:22 viki m: use LWP::Simple
16:22 camelia rakudo-moar 221633: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find LWP::Simple at line 1 in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6␤    CompUnit::R…»
16:22 nicq20 viki: Actually, the git snippet seems like it would work! I didn't realize that the { code } thing worked with those.
16:22 viki star: use LWP::Simple
16:22 camelia star-m 2016.04: ( no output )
16:23 rurban joined #perl6
16:23 viki m: "{my $foo = 42} {$foo}"
16:23 camelia rakudo-moar 221633: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$foo' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3"{my $foo = 42} {7⏏5$foo}"␤»
16:23 viki nicq20: ^ that poses a big problem :(
16:24 viki .oO( thankfully, averting PHP6 from being birthed... )
16:24 viki Nothing some global variables won't fix ;)
16:27 nicq20 I have a feeling that is pretty close to how PHP started.
16:27 viki nicq20: it started from a Perl script, yeah
16:27 AlexDaniel m: say do { my $OUTER::foo = 42 }
16:27 camelia rakudo-moar 221633: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Nil␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
16:28 AlexDaniel m: say do { my OUTER::‘$foo’ = 42 }
16:28 camelia rakudo-moar 221633: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not locate compile-time value for symbol OUTER␤»
16:28 AlexDaniel LTA, but whatever…
16:29 * viki contemplates Acme::PHP6
16:29 viki Just for the luls
16:30 adeohluwa joined #perl6
16:30 nicq20 viki: yES
16:30 adeohluwa left #perl6
16:31 hankache joined #perl6
16:31 hankache hola #perl6
16:31 nicq20 Hey-o
16:32 viki \o
16:32 AlexDaniel 🙋
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16:37 pmurias http://blogs.perl.org/users/pawel_murias/2016/10/rakudojs-update.html
16:39 nine pmurias++ # excellent progress!
16:40 timotimo always glad to see blog posts from that particular piece of rakudo :)
16:41 hankache pmurias++
16:41 viki pmurias++
16:42 nicq20 So how is the JS-Rakudo supposed to work? I haven't looked into it...
16:43 dalek doc: 94b393a | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Grammar.pod6:
16:43 dalek doc: Document subparse always returns a Match
16:43 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/94b393a3ca
16:44 pmurias_ joined #perl6
16:44 viki Insert Perl 6 code. Receive Javascript.
16:45 viki ???
16:45 viki Profit!
16:45 pmurias_ yes
16:46 pmurias_ nicq201: in the simplest form: perl6-js --target=js -e '...' > output.js
16:49 pmurias_ nicq201: in the js world transpilers (source to source compilers) are common so you will also be able to hook rakudo.js in to your webpack etc. thing
16:51 nicq20 Huh. That's pretty cool!
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17:01 viki m: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/eed942afae4cde238a4043c5f6bb0995
17:01 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«「    <!DOCTYPE html>␤    <html lang="en">␤        <meta charset="utf-8">␤        <title>Today's Time and Date</title>␤␤    <?💩␤        use LWP::Simple;␤        my $*foo = get 'http://perl.org';␤    💩>␤␤    <h1>It's <?💩 $foo; …»
17:01 viki m: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/aec4dcd55478859c90ebbd54f09801c4
17:01 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«「    <!DOCTYPE html>␤    <html lang="en">␤        <meta charset="utf-8">␤        <title>Today's Time and Date</title>␤␤    」␤ html => 「    <!DOCTYPE html>␤    <html lang="en">␤        <meta charset="utf-8">␤        <title>Today's Ti…»
17:02 viki How come the first version parses "code" blocks correctly, but the second doesn't? In the second, I move the .+? from token code-block into a separate token code. Shouldn't it match the same?
17:06 canopus joined #perl6
17:06 nicq20 Tokens to count whitespace right?
17:06 nicq20 *don't
17:06 viki Not sure what you mean.
17:07 viki rule {}s insert <ws> token for each interval of whitespace in them.
17:11 nicq20 Oops, got rule and token confused.
17:15 nicq20 gtg, bye!
17:22 jferrero m: -2 ** 2
17:22 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "-" in expression "-2 **" in sink context (line 1)␤»
17:22 jferrero m: (-2) ** 2
17:22 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "**" in expression "(-2) ** 2" in sink context (line 1)␤»
17:22 hankache huh?
17:22 timotimo yeah, it's because -2 ** 2 is actually -(2 ** 2)
17:23 timotimo it always reports the outermost operator
17:23 jferrero m: ((-2) ** 2)
17:23 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "**" in expression "(-2) ** 2" in sink context (line 1)␤»
17:23 viki again.
17:23 timotimo what again?
17:23 viki jferrero: out of curiousity, how did you hear about it?
17:23 hankache m: say -2 ** 2
17:23 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«-4␤»
17:24 jferrero sorry, viki. I saw at twitter
17:24 viki timotimo: like 4th person with the -1**1 thing in the past 6 days. I wonder how they hear about it.
17:24 viki jferrero: ah :)
17:25 hankache it's working fine.
17:25 hankache m: 1 + 1
17:25 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "+" in expression "1 + 1" in sink context (line 1)␤»
17:25 viki m: my $x = -2²; my $y = 0-2²; say "It'd be weird if $x and $y were not the same"
17:25 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«It'd be weird if -4 and -4 were not the same␤»
17:25 jferrero ouch... I forget the 'say' :)
17:25 timotimo viki: well, it's on twitter
17:25 sufrostico joined #perl6
17:26 hankache you need to do something with it (say)
17:26 jferrero m: say 4 == (1E12.log10 / 3).Int
17:26 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«False␤»
17:26 viki floating math
17:26 viki m: say 4 ≅ (1E12.log10 / 3).Int
17:26 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«False␤»
17:27 timotimo m: say 1e12.log10
17:27 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«12␤»
17:27 viki /o\
17:27 timotimo m: say 1e12.log10 / 3
17:27 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«4␤»
17:27 timotimo m: say 4 == (1e12.log10 / 3)
17:27 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«False␤»
17:27 viki Ah, right. the ≅ won't help. 'cause .Int makes it 3 :)
17:27 viki .... cause of floating math
17:27 viki m: say 4 ≅ (1E12.log10 / 3).round
17:27 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«True␤»
17:27 timotimo it really should output something that makes it clear it's not 4, but 4.something
17:28 viki m: put 1e12.log10 / 3
17:28 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«4␤»
17:28 viki m: dd 1e12.log10 / 3
17:28 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«4e0␤»
17:28 timotimo m: say (1e12.log10.perl)
17:28 viki heh
17:28 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«12e0␤»
17:28 timotimo m: say (1e12.log10 - 12).perl
17:28 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«-1.77635683940025e-15␤»
17:28 viki m: put (1e12.log10 / 3).perl
17:28 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«4e0␤»
17:29 timotimo m: say (1e12.log10 / 12).perl
17:29 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«1e0␤»
17:29 timotimo m: say (1e12.log10 / 12 - 1).perl
17:29 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«-1.11022302462516e-16␤»
17:29 viki What was the thing to increase precision in output?
17:29 timotimo using fmt or sprintf
17:29 viki There's a method or something
17:29 viki Oh
17:29 viki m: printf '%.f', (1e12.log10 / 3)
17:29 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«4»
17:29 viki m: printf '%.00000000000000000000000000000f', (1e12.log10 / 3)
17:29 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«4»
17:29 * viki shrugs
17:29 timotimo no, that's no thow
17:30 viki m: printf '%.12f', (1e12.log10 / 3)
17:30 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«4.000000000000»
17:30 viki m: printf '%.32f', (1e12.log10 / 3)
17:30 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«4.00000000000000000000000000000000»
17:30 viki m: printf '%.100f', (1e12.log10 / 3)
17:30 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«4.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000»
17:30 timotimo clearly that's b0rked as fuck.
17:30 viki m: say sprintf('%.1000000f', (1e12.log10 / 3)) eq sprintf('%.1000000f', 4)
17:31 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
17:31 viki m: say sprintf('%.10000f', (1e12.log10 / 3)) eq sprintf('%.10000f', 4)
17:31 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«True␤»
17:32 kyclark joined #perl6
17:36 viki What's the second argument to nqp::log_n?
17:36 viki m: use nqp; say nqp::log_n(1e12, 10e0)
17:36 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«2.30258509299405␤»
17:36 viki m: say e
17:36 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«2.71828182845905␤»
17:36 viki m: use nqp; say nqp::log_n(1e12, 10000e0)
17:36 timotimo probably just switched around
17:36 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«9.21034037197618␤»
17:36 viki m: use nqp; say nqp::log_n(10e, 1e12)
17:36 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3use nqp; say nqp::log_n(107⏏5e, 1e12)␤    expecting any of:␤        whitespace␤»
17:37 viki m: use nqp; say nqp::log_n(10e0, 1e12)
17:37 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«27.6310211159285␤»
17:37 timotimo m: use nqp; say nqp::log_n(10e0, 1e20)
17:37 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«46.0517018598809␤»
17:37 timotimo oh, huh.
17:37 viki m: use nqp; say nqp::log_n(e, 1e0)
17:37 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«0␤»
17:37 viki m: use nqp; say nqp::log_n(e, 0e0)
17:37 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«-Inf␤»
17:39 viki j: use nqp; say nqp::log_n(1e12, 10e0)
17:39 camelia rakudo-jvm 8d357a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Operation 'log_n' requires 1 operands␤»
17:43 kyclark joined #perl6
17:44 dalek ecosystem: 80380b7 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | README.md:
17:44 dalek ecosystem: Add http://ecosystem-api.p6c.org/projects.json to readme
17:44 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/80380b74ae
17:45 * viki spots mojibake in that file :/
17:46 viki Either that, or someone's got a really strange name: "authors":["Tadeusz тАЬtadzikтАЭ So┼Ыnierz" :D
17:46 timotimo Content-Type:application/json
17:46 timotimo no encoding apparently
17:47 viki yea
17:48 timotimo except json is specified to have a certain encoding, if i'm not mistaken
17:49 moritz I've just added charset=utf-8 to the header
17:50 viki Well, there can be several: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7159#section-8.1
17:51 viki moritz++
17:52 timotimo i didn't spot the mojibake :\
17:53 viki Your browser then chose to use something else then. Mine chose Chyrilic
17:53 viki Cyrillic
17:53 timotimo i probably just looked over it too quickly to see
17:54 moritz or your browser is configured differently
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18:00 nicq20 Hello again  o/
18:02 viki \o
18:02 timotimo o7
18:02 viki Just in time. I'm doing final testing of my PHP6 parser :D
18:05 nicq20 Oh, cool! I didn't think it would be that hard, but that was fast!
18:06 viki m: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/d5e1da4b96839ddab2c50b379277ea30
18:06 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find LWP::Simple at line 7 in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6␤    CompUnit::R…»
18:06 viki star: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/d5e1da4b96839ddab2c50b379277ea30
18:06 camelia star-m 2016.04: OUTPUT«    <!DOCTYPE html>␤    <html lang="en">␤        <meta charset="utf-8">␤        <title>Today's Time and Date</title>␤␤    ␤␤␤    <h1>The Perl 6 Ecosystem of ␤738␤ modules!</h1>␤␤    <table>␤    <thead>␤        <th>Module</th>␤    …»
18:06 viki And this is the resultant page: http://temp.perl6.party/out.html
18:06 viki lol :D
18:07 viki Caveat: 💩 is not allowed to be in HTML itself :P
18:07 eyck joined #perl6
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18:13 AlexDaniel not sure what makes it PHP6 though. It's just some perl 6 inside HTML
18:14 seatek joined #perl6
18:14 viki You're very observant!
18:16 labster joined #perl6
18:16 ilmari AlexDaniel: YHBT HTH HAND
18:18 mohae joined #perl6
18:22 viki m: say (@z and @z.join)
18:22 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '@z' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say (7⏏5@z and @z.join)␤»
18:22 viki m: my @z; say (@z and @z.join)
18:22 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«[]␤»
18:22 viki TIL
18:22 Lucas_One left #perl6
18:22 viki m: my @z; say (@z.elems and @z.join)
18:22 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«0␤»
18:22 viki neat
18:24 [Coke] should we canonicalize github addresses to a specific protocol in the module listing?
18:25 AlexDaniel speaking of php6…
18:25 AlexDaniel m: dd Semaphore.^can(‘try_acquire’)
18:25 camelia rakudo-moar 07eeea: OUTPUT«(method try_acquire (Semaphore $: *%_ --> Bool) { #`(Method+{Callable[Bool]}|56124640) ... },)␤»
18:25 TEttinger joined #perl6
18:25 AlexDaniel why is it try_acquire ?
18:27 viki [Coke]: I thought we already did, but apparently we just cannonize to the "right" version of either git or http: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/blob/master/server/updatelist.pl#L73
18:27 viki (and if we do want 1 address, we can just add code in that sub)
18:30 viki And I thought we normalized the source-url key to be 1 "right" key, but apparently not :/
18:34 perlpilot joined #perl6
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18:46 viki uh-oh... app failed after pushing to production...
18:46 * viki tries to recall how many times mst told him not to use MIME::Lite
18:48 brillenfux joined #perl6
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18:53 mohae_ joined #perl6
18:53 lizmat at least one time too few ?  :-)
18:54 viki Seems to be.
18:54 viki Fortunatelly (or unfortunatelly?) I fixed the problem, leaving me free to ignore his advice some more :)
18:58 pmurias viki: you are creating a php parser in Perl 6?
18:59 viki pmurias: nah. It was just a joke. Started with nicq20 asking if we could make same functionality with Perl 6
19:07 viki .tell RabidGravy if you get bored, see if you can create a Perl 6 package for Minoca OS. Seems to be something for Raspberry Pies: https://blog.minocacorp.com/minoca-os-a-new-open-source-operating-system-4bb7998df3a7
19:07 yoleaux viki: I'll pass your message to RabidGravy.
19:10 bjz joined #perl6
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19:21 * lizmat is working on the Perl 6 Weekly: anything I *should* mention this week that I forgot about ?
19:22 lizmat any blog posts I missed ?
19:23 paulmr joined #perl6
19:26 viki lizmat: tbrowder++ posted this: http://blogs.perl.org/users/tom_browdef/2016/10/avoiding-namespace-pollution-with-modules-in-perl-6.html
19:26 vendethiel- joined #perl6
19:26 lizmat yeah, got that  :-)
19:26 RabidGravy joined #perl6
19:26 viki \o/
19:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: 37d444d | niner++ | / (3 files):
19:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: Fix using Perl 5 modules with Perl 6 extensions in Perl 6
19:32 dalek Inline-Perl5:
19:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: Given a Perl 5 module package Foo; use v6::inline; ...
19:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: Trying to use Foo:from<Perl5>; failed because the Perl 6 wrapper class
19:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: overwrote the already created Perl 6 shadow class of the extended Perl 5
19:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: package.
19:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/37d444df2c
19:32 RabidGravy boom!
19:32 yoleaux 19:07Z <viki> RabidGravy: if you get bored, see if you can create a Perl 6 package for Minoca OS. Seems to be something for Raspberry Pies: https://blog.minocacorp.com/minoca-os-a-new-open-source-operating-system-4bb7998df3a7
19:33 RabidGravy :)
19:38 RabidGravy let me have a look at the OS in a kvm first
19:38 viki Just spotted it on HackerNews :) No idea if it's any good even
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19:48 viki buggable: eco
19:48 buggable viki, Out of 739 Ecosystem dists, 166 have warnings and 1 have errors. See https://modules.perl6.org/update.log for details
19:49 viki Needs refinement to know which errors are just due to GitHub.. (it's the Rakudo Travis thing all over again :o)
19:53 FROGGS[mobile]2 viki: I love you
19:53 leedo joined #perl6
19:53 FROGGS[mobile]2 r bots
19:54 timotimo hey viki you so fine, you so fine you blow my mind hey viki hey viki
19:55 FROGGS[mobile]2 *g*
19:56 Tonik joined #perl6
20:03 masak today's regular reminder that the hanzi for "ping pong" are 乒乓
20:03 masak :P
20:04 arnsholt =D
20:04 moritz nice :-)
20:07 kurahaupo__ timotimo: so that's what happened to Antonia Basilotta; she quit singing in 1983 to become a Perl coder?
20:08 masak pronounced "pīngpāng" -- those marks signify first tone, which is high and flat
20:08 masak er, level
20:11 lizmat and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2016/10/31/2016-44-увод-в-perl-6/
20:13 masak yay -- lizmat++
20:14 masak another infrared clog classic, this time brought to you by japhb++: "http://" is best pronounced "hippity-hop"
20:15 * masak also finds a lot of masak pleading with diakopter to stop naming macros "marco"
20:18 [Coke] "polo" a close second!
20:20 masak though I admit it took me years to realize that, since *functions* are called "foo" by default...
20:20 masak ...*macros* should of course be called "moo" by default
20:20 masak (so that's what I do now)
20:25 richi235 joined #perl6
20:29 arnsholt masak: Is "polo" also accepted as a macro name? =)
20:32 FROGGS joined #perl6
20:33 FROGGS o/
20:33 FROGGS lizmat++ # p6weekly
20:37 viki lizmat++ # good weekly
20:40 masak arnsholt: I'd suggest going with "moo" and "jar", in analogy with "foo" and "bar"
20:41 arnsholt Oh, nice
20:41 ale1ster joined #perl6
20:41 arnsholt From the Synopses, another favourite of mine is "sub marine(@sailors) { ... }"
20:43 abraxxa joined #perl6
20:44 masak oh! oh! I had completely forgotten about diakopter trying and failing to grok autopuns... :)
20:46 setty1 joined #perl6
20:46 nicq20 joined #perl6
20:47 [Coke] masak: moose and squirrel
20:48 masak 'night, #perl6
20:48 lizmat night masak
21:10 dalek Inline-Perl5: 65ceb50 | niner++ | p5helper.c:
21:10 dalek Inline-Perl5: Fix calling Perl 6 extension methods when loaded via Inline::Perl6
21:10 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/65ceb50ebe
21:13 nicq20 What is the '++' that is sometimes placed after a person's name? Something similar to props?
21:15 FROGGS joined #perl6
21:15 jonadab nicq20: Yes, you can safely ignore it.
21:15 lizmat it's a sign of appreciation
21:16 nicq20 Ah, ok. I thought it was, but I wanted to make sure.
21:17 lizmat nicq20++   # providing clarity to newbies
21:18 nicq20 Woo! \o/
21:19 paulmr2 joined #perl6
21:21 lizmat http://blogs.perl.org/users/max_maischein/2016/10/modern-opengl-with-perl.html   # /me wants for Perl 6  :-)
21:23 nicq20 joined #perl6
21:25 FROGGS ohh nice
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21:31 dalek doc: a100f07 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Language/functions.pod6:
21:31 dalek doc: Fixed incorrectly displayed code example
21:31 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a100f071d3
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21:36 grondilu hello #perl6
21:36 nicq20 Hey-o
21:36 lizmat grondilu o/
21:36 ugexe m: my $x = 5 andthen * *= 5; say $x; my $y = 5 andthen * = 25; say $y; # whats the difference that allows *= but not = ?
21:36 camelia rakudo-moar ba4967: OUTPUT«25␤Cannot modify an immutable Whatever␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
21:37 grondilu some sort of a webassembly announcement on HN today
21:37 * grondilu currently tries to compile emscripten again
21:37 * grondilu vaguely hopes he could compile MoarVM with it
21:38 grondilu http://v8project.blogspot.fr/2016/10/webassembly-browser-preview.html
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