Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-11-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:04 geekosaur mm, maybe that's where the original arguments came from. (also have a vague recollection that lizmat had fixed this in the newio branch and was rather put out about the whole thing)
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01:24 eisen74 umm. So, before I crack open the threading topic, I'm not seeing any errata. Going to exercise it pretty hard and see what happens. Any warnings?
01:31 AlexDaniel eisen74: do not use hyper/race
01:32 AlexDaniel … and do not use any async features in general…
01:32 AlexDaniel eisen74: anyway, go here: https://rt.perl.org/
01:33 AlexDaniel eisen74: and type [CONC] into the search box
01:33 AlexDaniel eisen74: or just see the list here: http://perl6.fail/t/CONC
01:35 AlexDaniel did that answer your question?
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02:42 dalek doc: 4702f50 | (Breno G. de Oliveira)++ | doc/Language/typesystem.pod6:
02:42 synopsebot6 Link: http://doc.perl6.org/language/typesystem
02:42 dalek doc: small typo fixes
02:42 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4702f50aa3
02:42 dalek doc: 547469a | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Language/typesystem.pod6:
02:42 dalek doc: Merge pull request #1015 from garu/patch-1
02:42 synopsebot6 Link: http://doc.perl6.org/language/typesystem
02:42 dalek doc:
02:42 dalek doc: small typo fixes
02:42 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/547469a3fd
02:43 samcv can you have a named regex which returns the match but transformed some way or is this not possible? hmm may dig into grammars
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02:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
02:48 seatek samcv - yeah that's exactly what grammars are great at
02:49 samcv been reading so much S05 these last few days
02:49 seatek This is an easy walk in grammars https://docs.perl6.org/language/grammar_tutorial
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03:44 samcv https://gist.github.com/1d00​86fcb06a9e8be858e9357d04ecf0 getting too many positionals passed with this
03:44 samcv not sure if you know seatek
03:44 samcv passing "https://www.google.com" works but "https://www.google.com/something" gets that error
03:45 samcv Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2
03:45 samcv in regex after at ./lib/URL/Find.pm6 line 25
03:45 samcv did not have that problem when I was just using it as a standard regex, so it's unchanged compared to that
03:47 samcv hmm i found this https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128832 could be the same problem?
03:51 geekosaur looks to me like you use <term> but don't define it, so may be getting one you don't expect
03:51 samcv isn't it defined on the line above?
03:51 geekosaur oh wait, I missed it the first time :/
03:51 samcv regex TOP         {  <anyprotocol> '://' <base> [ ['/' <term>]+ ]? '/'?  }
03:51 samcv this works fine though
03:52 samcv if i just put what was in after and put that.
03:52 samcv also oddly. unless i comment out the "token after" i get the crash even if i never use the after token
03:52 samcv anywhere
03:53 geekosaur what happens if you remove the <!after <protected>>?
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03:53 seatek yeah it looks kinda circular there
03:53 samcv that works geekosaur
03:54 samcv ah it looks like the naming of that regex was poor, and caused it to fail in only some circumstances
03:54 seatek term is part of after... and you're defining term with after
03:55 geekosaur no, <!after> is not that token
03:55 samcv well not using token after in that, but i think it WAS using it as the token
03:55 samcv yes
03:55 samcv idk i think it may have gotten confused. because i meant !after not that token
03:56 samcv renaming token after, to something else fixes it
03:56 samcv so it had to do with how it was named
03:56 geekosaur oh, interesting. I think we have a language collision
03:56 samcv yeah it worked fine as regex, but as a grammar, it was acting differently
03:56 seatek kboom
03:56 geekosaur you intended negative lookbehind, but I think that overlaps
03:57 seatek ah
03:57 samcv i think in grammars you don't need to declare things you use before where you use them right? but in regex you do?
03:58 seatek seems to me like it's all assembled at once just like a class
03:58 samcv yeah exactly
04:00 geekosaur right, <!some_token> is also syntax, so it's using that over the negative lookbehind. probably also happens with <!before foo>
04:00 geekosaur might file that as a bug
04:04 seatek yeah it would be nice if that failed instead of quietly doing secret things
04:05 geekosaur I'm not actually sure which one should win or which one should warn
04:05 samcv maybe rakudo should warn?
04:05 samcv the error is in MoarVM
04:05 geekosaur but either way it should probably warn about defining a token 'before' or 'after' because of the conflict with lookahead syntax
04:06 samcv yeah
04:06 geekosaur maybe only if it actually sees it used as <!...> because the <?...> form and <...> forms should be fine
04:07 geekosaur just the conflict between negated token match <!foo> and the negative lookahead/behind assertions
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05:44 samcv how can i access a grammars tokens and regex from outside it? i can't access them as methods. anybody know?
05:46 psch m: grammar G { token foo { \d+ } }; my &foo = G.can('foo')[0]; say &foo
05:46 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«token foo { \d+ }␤»
05:47 psch samcv: note though that doesn't really get you much, it's still a grammar-bound rule
05:47 psch m: grammar G { token foo { \d+ } }; my &foo = G.can('foo')[0]; say "123" ~~ &foo # as such...
05:47 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding to <anon>; expected G but got Cursor (Cursor.new)␤  in regex foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
05:48 psch samcv: if you want to match only a specific rule (well, and the rules it calls) you can pass :rule too .parse
05:49 psch m: grammar G { token TOP { <foo> ** 2..* }; token foo { \d+ } }; my &foo = G.can('foo')[0]; say G.parse("123", :rule<foo>)
05:49 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«「123」␤»
05:49 samcv well i mean without calling parse. that's not what i want really. i mean. access the rule's i've defined outside of the grammar object
05:49 psch samcv: what does 'access' mean?
05:50 psch samcv: i mean, .^can does give you the rule, so that's already 'access', but you can't use it for matching
05:50 samcv use it in regex like /<grammar.class>/
05:50 samcv hmm
05:50 psch ah, okay
05:50 samcv there is a way. i read about it i forget when
05:50 samcv but i can't find it again for the life of me
05:51 psch m: grammar G { token foo { \d+ } }; say "123" ~~ /&<G::foo>/
05:51 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«「123」␤ G::foo => 「123」␤»
05:51 samcv that was it! i know it was grammar::something but, i need the & :)
05:51 samcv thank you
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09:08 FROGGS o/
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09:29 moritz \o
09:29 moritz is there any way I can have a multi sub MAIN (Int $x) and a multi sub MAIN (Str $) without getting ambiguous dispatch in the Int case (which actually becomes an IntStr)?
09:30 moritz neither a where clause nor an "is default" seems to disambiguate
09:31 samcv how was it you print out every method an object has? i forget
09:31 moritz .^methods, .^methods(:all)
09:31 samcv yey
09:32 FROGGS moritz: I guess you'd need a subset of Str which only matches things that do not look like an Int
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09:36 FROGGS m: multi MAIN (Int(Str) $int) { say "int" }; multi MAIN (Str $str where { $_ !~~ /^\d+$/ }) { say "str" }; MAIN "42"; exit 0
09:36 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«int␤»
09:36 FROGGS moritz: ewww, there should be a shorter way
09:37 FROGGS (and a more correct one)
09:38 moritz m: INIT @*ARGS = '42'; multi MAIN (Int(Str) $int) { say "int" }; multi MAIN (Str $str where { $_ !~~ /^\d+$/ }) { say "str" }; MAIN "42";
09:38 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«int␤Ambiguous call to 'MAIN'; these signatures all match:␤:(Str $int)␤:(Str $int)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:38 moritz FROGGS: ^^ it doesn't work, because MAIN-HELPER (or whatever it's called) converts the '42' to an IntStr that matches both candidates
09:39 moritz and it doesn't have the intelligence to do the topologial sorting of candidates that normal multi dispatch does
09:39 moritz m: INIT @*ARGS = '42'; multi MAIN (Int $int) { say "int" }; multi MAIN (Str $str where { $_ !~~ /^\d+$/ }) { say "str" }; MAIN "42";
09:39 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«Cannot resolve caller MAIN("42"); none of these signatures match:␤    (Int $int)␤    (Str $str where { ... })␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:40 FROGGS well, then we have to fix that first
09:40 moritz m: INIT @*ARGS = '42'; multi MAIN (Int $int) { say "int" }; multi MAIN (Str $str where { $_ !~~ /^\d+$/ }) { say "str" };
09:40 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«int␤»
09:41 FROGGS m: INIT @*ARGS = '42'; multi MAIN (Int $int) { say "int" }; multi MAIN (Str $str where * !~~ /^\d+$/) { say "str" };
09:41 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«int␤»
09:41 FROGGS m: INIT @*ARGS = '42'; multi MAIN (Int $int) { say "int" }; multi MAIN (Str $str where +*) { say "str" };
09:41 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«str␤»
09:41 FROGGS m: INIT @*ARGS = '42'; multi MAIN (Int $int) { say "int" }; multi MAIN (Str $str where !+*) { say "str" };
09:41 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«int␤»
09:41 FROGGS :P
09:42 FROGGS m: INIT @*ARGS = '42'; multi MAIN (Int $int) { say "int" }; multi MAIN (Str $str where not *.Int) { say "str" };
09:42 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«int␤»
09:42 FROGGS that's actually better than the regex
09:42 FROGGS m: INIT @*ARGS = '42hurz'; multi MAIN (Int $int) { say "int" }; multi MAIN (Str $str where not *.Int) { say "str" };
09:42 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«str␤»
09:47 moritz multi sub MAIN(Str $input where { try Date.new($_) }) {
09:47 moritz that's what I have now :-)
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10:06 seatek one day i'll create pretty code that can generate SQL statements. but not today.
10:16 RabidGravy seatek, strangely I am working on just that thing
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10:17 RabidGravy I had it working, then decided that I didn't like it, then something started segfaulting then started re-working it and now it doesn't work again
10:17 RabidGravy except for the pretty bit, it's not pretty
10:17 seatek RabidGravy: what is it about SQL that thwarts EVERYTHING
10:19 RabidGravy the grammar of SQL is unlike the structures of other languages
10:19 seatek i'm using loop structures like i haven't used in years... concatenating strings... it's like something exploded
10:19 seatek i was even using the old style c for loop at one point
10:19 RabidGravy oh I've got lots and lots of multis
10:20 seatek hehe -- i tried grammars at one point too :)
10:20 seatek maybe we're trying to make it too generic.. that's what i'm thinking more and more
10:21 seatek i'm looking for the holy grail one ultimate function
10:21 seatek well, for a search/select... ;)
10:22 seatek i've come down to making a very, very complex and obtuse one that's hidden away in a base class... and up the chain, i encapsulate it with growing easiness ;)
10:23 seatek and writing tests like made
10:23 seatek mad
10:24 seatek how are you stacking up multis for this? that's interesting to think about. building in pieces?
10:25 seatek i am not starting again. never mind :)
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10:26 RabidGravy yeah, build in tiny pieces, which I think is at root of the segfaulting
10:27 seatek and then you'll remember later on that you forgot about dealing with join, and your whole stack will come crashing down
10:27 seatek i hope not :)
10:28 seatek i keep remembering and needing these fringe cases that just ruin everything
10:28 seatek how could that segfault?
10:29 seatek you must be doing very weird things
10:29 RabidGravy that's why you do it in pieces, build the where, build the join, build the order and stitch them together at the last minute
10:29 seatek youre using multi subs for that?
10:29 RabidGravy it's the GC kicking in
10:31 seatek Yeah you must be doing really weird things
10:32 RabidGravy it's the size of the tests (which I have adapted from those of SQL::Abstract) - which is basically a big array pf hashes
10:33 seatek are you going to put this out in the ecosystem?
10:33 seatek i checked and there was nothing, so i've been creating yet another from scratch
10:34 seatek id' say i wished that dbixclass could come over... but i swear i spend just as much time troubleshooting the oddities of that as i do anything else
10:35 seatek though for simple stuff it's so nice.
10:38 moritz the #= examples in https://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2​014/12/22/the-cool-subset-of-main/ don't seem to work anymore
10:38 moritz what's the current syntax for that?
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10:39 moritz ah, #|
10:40 seatek you mean for commenting?
10:41 FROGGS moritz: I believe #= and #| switched their position
10:43 seatek i got hooked on #|{ blah blah }  -- enclosing with the brackets seems to "hook" it to methods in the auto-generated POD documenation too, which is really, really nice
10:46 samcv it is seatek :)
10:48 seatek curious - that reminds me - I think I remember finding that command line arguments to MAIN required that an '=' sign be appened to the argument when something needed to be assigned -- it wouldn't take the normal --option optionText that you could usually do
10:48 seatek it required you always do --option=optionText
10:48 seatek is that the set in stone standard?
10:48 moritz m: INIT @*ARGS = '--foo', 'value'; sub MAIN(:$foo) { say $foo }
10:48 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«Usage:␤  <tmp> [--foo=<Any>] ␤»
10:49 moritz huh, I thought it worked unless you explicitly marked your options as Bool
10:49 moritz seatek: you might want to investigate the history of that feature; it might have been different in the past
10:49 seatek seatek: k
10:50 moritz btw I blug again: https://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl​-6/2016-book-what-is-perl6.html
10:52 seatek i'll subscribe to that ;)
10:54 seatek you've thrown me into an existential stupor, having to confirm my humanity
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10:55 stmuk_ moritz: I don't understand why pl6anet.org isn't picking up your blog .. tried changing http to https
10:56 stmuk_ wondering if it doesn't like pubdate  00:00:00
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11:10 FROGGS moritz++ # blug
11:14 stmuk_ or more likely confused with urls
11:16 stmuk_ ** GET https://perlgeek.de/blog-en.cgi/perl-6/index.rss ==> 200 OK
11:16 stmuk_ grrr
11:17 nine seatek: maybe something like this? http://niner.name/talks/DBIC%​20in%20Perl%206%20revisited/
11:18 nine seatek: regarding SQL
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11:21 vendethiel o/
11:22 vendethiel m: ('hey' ~~ /.+/) === ('foo' ~~ /.+/); # is that expected?
11:22 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "===" in expression "('hey' ~~ /.+/) === ('foo' ~~ /.+/)" in sink context (line 1)␤»
11:22 vendethiel m: say ('hey' ~~ /.+/) === ('foo' ~~ /.+/); # is that expected?
11:22 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«True␤»
11:22 samcv how can i tell the location of the file I'm looking at with p6doc?
11:23 samcv is there a way to do that?
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11:23 samcv m: {'hey' ~~ /.+/} === {'foo' ~~ /.+/};
11:23 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "===" in expression "{'hey' ~~ /.+/} === {'foo' ~~ /.+/}" in sink context (line 1)␤»
11:23 samcv :(
11:24 samcv also vendethiel that also makes not much sence
11:24 samcv === checks if it's the same object.
11:24 samcv maybe you want eqv?
11:24 vendethiel well, yours make sense
11:24 samcv m: ('hey' ~~ /.+/) eqv ('foo' ~~ /.+/);
11:24 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "eqv" in expression "('hey' ~~ /.+/) eqv ('foo' ~~ /.+/)" in sink context (line 1)␤»
11:24 samcv ugh
11:24 vendethiel you need "say"
11:25 samcv m: say ('hey' ~~ /.+/) eqv ('foo' ~~ /.+/);
11:25 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:25 vendethiel and I don't get to pick eqv over ===, .unique uses === so i'm stuck with that
11:25 samcv m: say ('hey' ~~ /.+/) === ('foo' ~~ /.+/);
11:25 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«True␤»
11:26 samcv ah
11:26 nine m: say ('hey' ~~ /.+/).WHICH
11:26 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«Match␤»
11:26 nine That ^^^ is the reason
11:26 vendethiel well, obviously
11:27 vendethiel I don't see how that's a reason tho
11:27 psch m: my $capt = \(Match.new, Match.new); say &infix:<===>.candidates.grep({ try $_(|$capt) }).say
11:27 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«(sub infix:<===> (\a, \b) { #`(Sub|65848288) ... })␤True␤»
11:27 samcv not exactly sure why it says true. since.
11:28 psch oh, double say
11:28 samcv m: IO.new === IO.new
11:28 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "===" in expression ".new === IO.new" in sink context (line 1)␤»
11:28 samcv m: say IO.new === IO.new
11:28 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:28 samcv but i guess when .new isn't called it's still the same object and not a totally 'new' one?
11:28 psch anyway, that candidate compares eqaddr || eqaddr .WHAT && eqaddr .WHICH
11:28 nine === is true if both objects have the same address (they are the same) or if both are a value type and they are considered equal (which means they have the same .WHICH output)
11:29 nine Match is a subclass of Capture which provices a WHICH method
11:29 FROGGS and Match is not a value type, is it?
11:29 vendethiel m: ("hey" ~~ /.+/).WHICH.say; ("foo" ~~ /.+/).WHICH.say;
11:29 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«Match␤Match␤»
11:29 samcv yeah that's what i was thinking, thanks nine
11:29 vendethiel lol
11:30 nine m: ('hey' ~~ /(.+)/) === ('foo' ~~ /(.+)/)
11:30 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "===" in expression "('hey' ~~ /(.+)/) === ('foo' ~~ /(.+)/)" in sink context (line 1)␤»
11:30 nine m: say ('hey' ~~ /(.+)/) === ('foo' ~~ /(.+)/)
11:30 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«True␤»
11:30 psch m: say ('hey' ~~ /(.+)/) eqv ('foo' ~~ /(.+)/)
11:30 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:30 vendethiel its .WHICH is always "Match", so they're always gonna be equivalent.
11:30 vendethiel so you can't use .unique on a Match array
11:31 nine m: ('hey' ~~ /(.+)/).WHICH.say
11:31 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«Match|(Match)␤»
11:31 nine Not always "Match" but not helpful either :)
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11:31 vendethiel right :p
11:32 psch m: my @a = ('hey' ~~ /(.+)/), ('ho' ~~ /(.+)/), ('hey' ~~ /(.+)/); @a .= unique: with => &infix:<eqv>; say @a
11:32 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«[「hey」␤ 0 => 「hey」 「ho」␤ 0 => 「ho」]␤»
11:32 nine FROGGS: well it could become a value type. Don't know how the decision is made if something should be a value type or not?
11:34 vendethiel m: my @a = ('hey' ~~ /.+/), ('ho' ~~ /.+/), ('hey' ~~ /.+/); @a .= unique: with => &infix:<eqv>; say @a
11:34 camelia rakudo-moar e9487d: OUTPUT«[「hey」 「ho」]␤»
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11:36 nine FROGGS: now that I think of it, immutability must be a key ingredient to becoming a value type and Matches are quite mutable. So no, they must not be value types.
11:36 nine So Match should override WHICH with the version from Mu
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11:55 vendethiel nine++
11:55 nine Fix pushed
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11:58 nine m: say ('hey' ~~ /(.+)/) === ('foo' ~~ /(.+)/)
11:58 camelia rakudo-moar 7f26e8: OUTPUT«False␤»
12:03 MasterDuke moritz: in "putting regexes on the same level as code, allowing you to name it like subroutines", i think the "it" should be "them"
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12:12 tbrowder hi, #perl6
12:14 [ptc] o/
12:15 tbrowder I'm having trouble using the Rakudo distributions (I haven't installed the latest yet).  I have installed all fine, and I can use panda to install modules.  When I install zef, it installs seemingly fine, but then it's not found when I try to execute it.  When I try installing it again I get a panda failure saying it's already installed.  Whassup?
12:16 tbrowder o/ [ptc]
12:21 tbrowder I've tried removing my .zef directory but that doesn't change anything.
12:22 stmuk_ just sounds like a path issue
12:22 stmuk_ how are you installing rakudo?
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12:40 [ptc] stmuk_: are there still spots free at the LPW?
12:41 stmuk_ [ptc]: not sure maybe ask mdk
12:42 stmuk_ I suspect not since the schedule is up
12:43 [ptc] hrm, bummer
12:47 tbrowder not a path issue that I can see.  All other installed modules and bins are found.  On my remote servers I use the rakudo tar archive. On my local host I use the rakudo nom branch and have no problems.
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12:49 [ptc] stmuk_: just tried registering and it worked...  I still have to work out if I can get to the UK, so I haven't confirmed the registration yet.  See how I go :-)
12:50 [ptc] tbrowder: how did you install zef?  Via panda?
12:59 [ptc] tbrowder: if you installed it via rakudobrew, it should theoretically be in your path (as far as I understand)
13:05 tbrowder it wasn't by rakudobrew, it was with the periodically-released rakudo distributions. The one I used was: rakudo-star-2016.10.tar.gz
13:06 viki tbrowder: what OS are you on?
13:06 tbrowder Opps, I just found zef.  It's in $HOME/.perl6
13:07 tbrowder No idea how that got there.  Blowing it away and trying again...
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13:09 tbrowder OS: Debian 8, 64-bit.
13:11 tbrowder Looks like $HOME/.perl6 is created by panda, but  the originally installed panda is in the dir I assigned when installing the package!
13:12 tbrowder Looks like an installation disconnect but not yet sure where it occurs.
13:13 [ptc] I think panda installs into $HOME/.perl6 by default
13:14 FROGGS I thought it would install into site if it can, not home...
13:15 tbrowder FYI, my perl 6 and friends were installed at /usr/local/rakudo.d/bin and all modules are apparently installed there.
13:15 tbrowder All the bins under it are in my path.
13:16 tbrowder And panda is at /usr/local/rakudo.d/share/perl6/site/bin/panda (the original installation).
13:18 tbrowder I think it's way past time to use zef as the primary installer.  It would help to have it as primary on travis. too.  Or at least make zef a standard part of all rakudo installations.
13:25 stmuk_ [ptc]: oh I am sure you can turn up (its free and no list checking) I thought you wanted to speak!
13:27 tbrowder Okay, I'm blowing all that away and trying the non -star distro just announced: rakudo-2016.11.tar.gz
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13:45 stmuk_ tbrowder: rakudo-star will tell you how to set the PATH after installation
13:46 stmuk_ I suspect you only added the directory containing perl6
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14:10 stmuk_ http://blogs.perl.org/users/steve_mynott/2016​/11/rakudo-star-201611-release-candidate.html
14:15 avar sweet
14:25 dmaestro Installing now! :-)
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14:55 RabidGravy EEK! That's a new one on me "MoarVM panic: Internal error: zeroed target thread ID in work pass"
14:58 tbrowder stmuk: I added all the bin paths under the installation directory.
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14:59 tbrowder and panda was there.  So until today I never saw the $HOME/.perl directory.  How can one install a site-wide Perl 6 that way?
14:59 tbrowder Serious panda disconnect IMHO.
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15:05 tbrowder Sorry, I meant the "$HOME/.perl6" directory--not seen until today.   I expected all installed modules to use the dir where perl6 is found.  Isn't that reasonable?
15:08 tbrowder When I look at the latest zef README I see all kinds of other search and install options, including defining PERL6LIB which, I think, on the docs page is described as something not usually needed, quote: "Note that PERL6LIB is more of a developer convenience in Perl 6 (as opposed to the equivalent usage of PERL5LIB in Perl5) and shouldn't be used by module
15:08 tbrowder consumers as it could be removed in the future. This is because Perl 6's module loading isn't directly compatible with operating system paths."
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15:11 tbrowder And panda instructions don't mention $HOME/.perl6.
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15:49 moritz stmuk_: should I try to change the date format in the RSS feed?
15:50 moritz according to http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11993258/wh​at-is-the-correct-format-for-rss-feed-pubdate it looks correct, except that it misses time zone information
15:53 dmaestro tbrowder: Coming from a deep perl5 background, and only recently devoting attention to perl6, I am so far confused by the installation rules. I wonder if someone has published an article to summarize the philosophy and how to work with it. Maybe an Advent article is coming?
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15:56 [ptc] stmuk_: I'll hopefully give a talk at a workshop one day; haven't really got much to talk about, well not yet
15:57 tbrowder dmaestro: I hope so, that would be a good subject.  Since I don't have any other users on my servers, installation from rakudo nom branch on my main local host serves me well, but I want an easier path for current installation on my remote servers if possible, and a root installation should be a priority if we want to ease the transition of programming shops
15:57 tbrowder to Perl 6.
15:57 bstamour I'm trying to overload the less-than operator for a custom class, but rakudo doesn't seem to like the definition multi sub infix:<<>(Point $x, Point $y) ...
15:57 bstamour Is there something I'm missing? :-)
15:58 psch bstamour: longest token matching means that the parser cannot know that you don't want double-< as your quote delimiter
15:58 moritz sub infix:«<»
15:58 tbrowder Anyone interested in a CGI::Lite module with a subset of Perl 5 CGI functionality?
15:58 psch bstamour: you can use infix:['<'] instead, among others
15:58 bstamour Okay.
15:58 bstamour Is the ['op'] syntax valid for any operator? i.e. it behaves kinda like hash access?
15:59 psch well, it's not gonna work for the q// operator for 'literal strings' :)
15:59 bstamour haha, fair enough.
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16:00 bstamour imagine doing multi sub infix:q:x'some unix command'(...) lol
16:00 cygx m: sub infix:<\<>($a,$b) { say $a+$b  }; 1 < 2
16:00 camelia rakudo-moar 939d27: OUTPUT«3␤»
16:00 cygx ^ yet another variant
16:00 psch m: constant \opname = '*'; say &infix:[opname](2,3)
16:00 camelia rakudo-moar 939d27: OUTPUT«6␤»
16:01 bstamour this language is nuts. but in a good way.
16:01 stmuk_ moritz: It looks like a bug in perlanet .. your blog on its own is treated correctly
16:01 stmuk_ moritz: your blog and another works too ... just not when I add all of them
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16:16 moritz :(
16:18 stmuk_ I'm perlbrewing a parallel setup in the hope updating modules might help
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16:19 Herby_ o/
16:19 moritz stmuk_: thanks for looking into it
16:19 moritz \o Herby_
16:21 Herby_ I've looked but can't find this... if I want to create my own package MyFunctions, where do I save that .pm6 file?
16:22 Herby_ i havent seen that in any of the perl6intro articles (possible I've overlooked it)
16:22 moritz Herby_: typically in lib/, and then you do a 'use lib "lib";'
16:23 moritz Herby_: or run your script with perl6 -Ilib ...
16:23 moritz (or install it using panda or something like that)
16:24 Herby_ hmm. where do you save your .pm6 files that contain classes etc.. for your projects?
16:24 Herby_ same place?
16:24 moritz yes
16:25 Herby_ gotcha. ok, I'll give it a whirl
16:25 Herby_ and I'm looking forward to that book you're writing :)
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16:31 * moritz too :-)
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16:44 stevieb moritz: if I'm not mistaken, you had a sign-up to be notified when the book comes out, yes? (if so, I'm on it, it's just I don't remember stuff as well as I used to ;)
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16:52 stmuk_ moritz: is it possible to put published or updated elements in your feed?
16:54 moritz stevieb: yes, I hav a mailing list (signup form at https://perl6book.com/#signup )
16:54 moritz stmuk_: I don't udnerstand the question; isn't that what the feed is made of?
16:55 stmuk_ I just see    <pubDate>Sun, Nov 20 00:00:00 2016</pubDate>
16:56 moritz yes, that's because I generally only store the publishing date, not the time
16:56 stmuk_ perlanet is not parsing the date correctly
16:56 moritz so what would be correct?
16:58 stmuk_ not sure .. you could try 01:00:00 or adding extra elements like 'published' or 'updated' or whatever
16:59 moritz but how is 01:00:00 a more valid time than 00:00:00?
17:00 stmuk_ maybe the code is buggy and doesn't handle that case
17:01 moritz I'll add a second and see if it makes a difference
17:02 moritz stmuk_: ok, https://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/index.rss now says    <pubDate>Sun, Nov 20 00:00:01 2016</pubDate>
17:03 stmuk_ makes no difference :(
17:03 stmuk_ it still sees no publish date and so bumps your post right to the bottom of the feed (which usually means its not displayed)
17:03 moritz stmuk_: should I try to add a time zone?
17:04 stmuk_ yeah any tweaking of the format might help
17:04 stmuk_ its easy to reproduce with libperlanet-perl in debian
17:05 moritz <pubDate>Sun, Nov 20 00:00:01 2016 CET</pubDate>
17:06 stmuk_ nothing I'm seeing no dates
17:07 moritz stmuk_: what command and config files do you use?
17:08 stmuk_ https://github.com/stmuk/pl6anet.org
17:09 stmuk_ I've been slack in updating but the config is close to that
17:09 stmuk_ /usr/bin/perl /usr/bin/perlanet perlanetrc
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17:11 stmuk_ bbl
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17:33 moritz I've /msg'ed davorg on magnet and asked for some hints on how to debug that
17:41 El_Che moritz: great news about the book
17:42 mspo Learnyousomeperl6?
17:47 moritz mspo: https://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/2016-book.html
17:50 viki moritz: FWIW, <pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2016 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate> works
17:50 moritz viki: I'll try that, thanks
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17:52 viki m: use NativeCall; sub strftime (Str) is native {}; say strftime "%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S %z"
17:52 camelia rakudo-moar 939d27: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
17:52 moritz doesn't look like it works :(
17:52 viki moritz: then the issue is not the date. Perl6.Party uses that date format
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17:53 viki moritz: and I generate feed XML by hand: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl​6.party/blob/master/app.pl#L65-L77
17:53 moritz viki: I'm increasingly worried that blosxom actually produces a nasty mixture of RSS and Atom, and somehow complete messes up
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17:54 moritz if you look at view-source:https://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/index.rss it has <rdf:RDF> as the outer-most element, where all the other examples use <rss>
17:55 moritz or <channel>, that is
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18:32 stmuk_ "Blosxom, produces a pubDate field that is not RFC822 compliant "
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19:21 bstamour Is tnere any way to express "every item in this array must have the same type" in a type signature?
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19:22 bstamour Or is that only expressible via constraints? like "where ..."?
19:22 psch bstamour: you can also declare a nominally typed Array
19:22 lizmat_ my Int @a
19:23 bstamour does that work in signatures too? like sub foo(Int @x) ?
19:23 psch m: sub f(Int @a) { say [+] @a }; my Int @a = ^10; say f @a
19:23 camelia rakudo-moar 939d27: OUTPUT«45␤True␤»
19:24 lizmat bstamour: alas, no
19:24 bstamour darn
19:24 psch huh?
19:26 FROGGS it does work as shown, or not?
19:27 FROGGS m: sub f(Int @a) { say [+] @a }; my @a = 1, 2, 'test'; say f @a
19:27 camelia rakudo-moar 939d27: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding to @a; expected Positional[Int] but got Array ($[1, 2, "test"])␤  in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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19:55 lizmat m: m: sub f(Int @a) { say [+] @a }; my @a = 1, 2, 3; say f @a
19:55 camelia rakudo-moar 939d27: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding to @a; expected Positional[Int] but got Array ($[1, 2, 3])␤  in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
19:55 lizmat FROGGS: even if they are all Int, it fails
19:55 lizmat it *always* fails
19:55 lizmat m: m: sub f(Int @a) { say [+] @a }; my Int @a = 1, 2, 3; say f @a
19:55 camelia rakudo-moar 939d27: OUTPUT«6␤True␤»
19:55 lizmat ah
19:57 psch m: sub f(@a where .of =:= Int) { [+] @a }; my Int @a = 1,2,3; say f @a
19:57 camelia rakudo-moar 939d27: OUTPUT«6␤»
19:58 psch that's kinda-sorta-probably what we're doing under the hood, isn't it
19:59 lizmat psch: yeah, think so
19:59 arnsholt There's a jnthn quote here: Types in Perl 6 are nominal, not structural
20:00 arnsholt That is, it's how you *declare* a type that matters, not what it looks like
20:01 psch well, nominal is somehow related to latin "nomen", which means "name", hence my mnemonic is "what you call them"... :)
20:01 arnsholt Yup!
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20:07 timotimo lizmat: would you be interested in discussing how views ought to work in moar and rakudo?
20:07 timotimo i.e. partial- or higher-dimensional slices of nd arrays
20:12 lizmat timotimo: sure
20:12 timotimo so right now i've got not quite working yet prototype
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20:14 timotimo a view into an ndarray will have a starting index, and for each of its "own" dimensions an offset by which to increase (or decrease) the item index for each step in any of the dimensions
20:16 timotimo so i'd be offering ops to get/set these "strides", and also the initial offset (for making things like reversing items across one dimension for example)and also to get/set the target of a view
20:16 lizmat sounds ok so far: I assume a stride can be 0, right ?
20:17 timotimo it can be, if you'd like
20:17 timotimo that way you can implement a dimension that'll give you the same actual item for every index you pass
20:17 timotimo (give, as in read-write, of course)
20:17 lizmat yup
20:18 lizmat sounds sane to me so far :)
20:20 timotimo OK
20:20 timotimo some other things you'll be able to do is shuffle dimensions around
20:21 timotimo for example, if we want to support fortran's style of indexes we can just .reverse the strides list
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20:21 timotimo i have no idea yet how the user should be able to specify those more complicated situations
20:22 lizmat timotimo: we'll figure it out somehow  :)
20:22 lizmat not sure what you mean with fortran style of indexes...  you mean starting at 1 instead of 0 ?
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20:23 timotimo oh, no
20:23 timotimo that's lua
20:23 arnsholt Row-major versus column-major
20:23 timotimo yes
20:24 timotimo in C, you'd get the same thing from foo[1][2][3] that you'd have to spell foo[3][2][1] in fortran
20:24 arnsholt Fortran indexes down, where C indexes across
20:24 lizmat ok
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20:25 masak sounds like little-endian/big-endian but for array dimensions
20:26 timotimo i suppose a .reshape method on ndarrays would definitely be good
20:26 timotimo that way we'd turn a 9-element one-dim array into a 3x3 two-dimmed array, for example
20:27 lizmat timotimo: wouldn't you want that to be a view ?
20:27 timotimo also, we'll of course support views that expose fewer elements than the target has, for example if we slice in one dimension
20:27 timotimo yes, a view
20:28 lizmat ok, *phew*  :-)
20:28 timotimo sory, i potentially won't be proper with these words
20:28 lizmat turning a 3x3 into a flat would be nice when copying between two shaped arrays
20:28 timotimo sure, that also ought to be possible
20:28 timotimo easily
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20:29 timotimo how do we expose things like "i want to index every second element in this dimension" to the user?
20:30 timotimo clearly the most intuitive thing would be 0,2...*, but we can't easily introspect that
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20:32 lizmat well, doesn't a sequence know its adding a value each step, or multiplying?
20:33 lizmat pretty sure a sequence "knows" it's adding 2 every step there
20:33 lizmat and that it starts at 0
20:33 lizmat maybe we can't introspect that at the moment...  but the info is there somewhere  :-)
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20:41 lizmat stmuk: re announcement https://github.com/rakudo/star/blo​b/master/docs/announce/2016.11.md , there are several mentions of infix:<foo> that miss the <foo> because it looks like an HTML tag
20:41 lizmat stmuk: not sure if this is a rendering issue or not or how to fix
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20:42 El_Che lizmat: when are you announcing the new rakudo release?
20:43 lizmat well, if it's release tomorrow before the P6W, I'll mention it there
20:43 lizmat but that's really up to stmuk_  :-)
20:43 El_Che I mean the regular one, not the star
20:44 El_Che I'll try to build the rakudo linux packages tomorrow during the day
20:44 lizmat ah, well, *that's* up to Zoffix I think
20:45 El_Che ok
20:45 moritz lizmat: it would be nice if you could mention my latest two blog posts on the next p6weekly. Thanks!
20:46 lizmat moritz: I will  :-)
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20:57 dmaestro The issue I am trying to deal with now is, what is the (undocumented?) %*CUSTOM_LIB dynamic variable? I tried running ufo and got this error: Dynamic variable %*CUSTOM_LIB not found   in sub get_prefix
20:57 timotimo lizmat: well, as long as we can ensure that nobody goes around making sequences that pretend to be "start at x, add n each step, end at k" but really are something entirely different
20:58 timotimo people shouldn't rely on that working, of course
20:58 timotimo dmaestro: i don't think ufo is needed at all any more
20:59 timotimo lizmat: oh, btw, i'm also going to support viewing an int32 as an int8 for example
20:59 lizmat timotimo: that would not be a "standard" sequence, and as such unacceptable for this type of thing  :-)
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21:00 dmaestro timotimo: trying to install Readline is failing on my older linux box without libreadline.so.6 (I have version 5). I thought I'd try to 'look', reverse a breaking change and install manuall, but I don't know how to do that.
21:01 dmaestro Can panda (or zef) help with that?
21:02 dmaestro I'd also like to know what the current status of %*CUSTOM_LIB is, pointers to docs/articles on what it is for, or replaced by.
21:02 timotimo the last mention of CUSTOM_LIB is 12 months old
21:03 skink I've got a nativesub(uint64, uint64) that errors 'Native call expected argument that references a native integer, but got P6opaque' when I pass it (Int, Int)
21:03 timotimo |   +### What about `%?CUSTOM_LIB`?
21:03 timotimo |   +
21:03 timotimo |   +Probably also gone, though probably also partly covered by whatever we build
21:03 timotimo |   +to satisfy the previous question.
21:04 timotimo skink: int can't handle undefinedness, so you'd have to pass actual numbers there
21:04 skink How do you mean?
21:05 lizmat m: say my Int $a; say my int $a
21:05 camelia rakudo-moar 486155: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Redeclaration of symbol '$a'␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3say my Int $a; say my int $a7⏏5<EOL>␤0␤0␤»
21:05 lizmat m: say my Int $; say my int $
21:05 camelia rakudo-moar 486155: OUTPUT«(Int)␤0␤»
21:05 geekosaur how do you put undefined in a machine register?
21:05 geekosaur native types are what the hardware does
21:05 timotimo dmaestro: is the readme of Readline telling you to use ufo to install it?
21:06 skink Lemme clarify: when I generate the uint64s I need within a given scope and pass them it works, but I'm loading those numbers into a hash table, where they apparently get auto-converted to Int
21:06 dmaestro I believe that's where I saw it, yes.
21:06 skink So it works... and then it stops working :)
21:06 timotimo ah, it does tell you to do that
21:06 timotimo that portion of the readme has last been touched in march of last year
21:06 timotimo i.e. 3/4 of a year before our first stable release :S
21:06 geekosaur you can type a hash with uint64 values, I think. but even with the default, you should be able to use a coercion uint64(value)
21:07 geekosaur I think
21:07 timotimo anyway, you're meant to just install it with panda install . or zef install .
21:07 timotimo or panda install Readline or zef install Readline
21:07 skink Tried coerce and got an error
21:07 timotimo we don't have uint64(value)
21:07 dmaestro But when it breaks, and I want to patch the code locally? I don't know how to build/install it after I patch it?
21:07 timotimo you should be able to "(my uint64 $ = $value)"
21:08 timotimo dmaestro: then just panda install . inside the folder
21:08 dmaestro timotimo: Thanks, that's probably what I was looking for :-)
21:10 skink foo((my uint64 $ = $x), (my uint64 $ = $y)) gives me 'expected argument that references a native integer, but got P6int'
21:11 timotimo dmaestro: have you seen this? https://github.com/drforr/perl6-readline/issues/12
21:13 skink Wait... I may be dumb...
21:14 timotimo skink: it does sound like you're meant to pass a read-writable int value
21:15 timotimo even though you said the function is declared to take (uint64, uint64) rather than (uint64 is rw, uint64 is rw)
21:15 skink Yep, that's why I was dumb :)
21:15 skink I had copy-pasted a previous def and modified it, forgetting to take out is rw
21:16 timotimo i think the error message ought to have "rw" somewhere in it
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21:40 dmaestro timotimo: Thanks, that's a helpful reference - I had already looked at the source history, so I tried changing the version # to match my system. I'm now getting an invalid symbol error, which points to probably have to upgrade my library somehow.
21:40 geekosaur which symbol?
21:40 dmaestro My only wonder now is why it used to work circa rakudo-star 2016.07
21:41 dmaestro geekosaur: 0000000000000000      D  *UND*  0000000000000000              PC
21:41 timotimo don't you mean downgrade the library?
21:42 dmaestro I'm on an old slackware Linux with readline 5, not 6 or 7. Upgrade to 6 would be in order, but I'm curious about the nature of the incompatibility.
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21:43 dmaestro Not really upgrade, either, of course, just add the later version to be available.
21:45 timotimo you can just use Linenoise instead
21:46 timotimo it builds its library by itself, if i'm not mistaken
21:47 geekosaur ok, some googling tells me that your libncurses changed, and n longer incorporates libtinfo the same way
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21:48 geekosaur you may need to add an explicit link of -lncurses and/or -ltinfo
21:49 moritz stmuk_: I've fiddled a bit with the RSS format; now my local installation of perlanet detects some timestamps
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21:52 BenGoldberg m: m: sub f(Int @a) { say [+] @a }; my Int @a = 1, 2, 3; say f @a
21:53 camelia rakudo-moar f25ab3: OUTPUT«6␤True␤»
21:54 BenGoldberg m: m: sub f(Int @a) { say [+] @a }; my Buf[Int] $a = 1, 2, 3; say f $a
21:54 camelia rakudo-moar f25ab3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling f(Buf[Int]) will never work with declared signature (Int @a)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3[+] @a }; my Buf[Int] $a = 1, 2, 3; say 7⏏5f $a␤»
21:54 BenGoldberg m: m: sub f(Int @a) { say [+] @a }; my Buf[Int] $a = 1, 2, 3; say f @$a
21:54 camelia rakudo-moar f25ab3: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of constant integer 2 in sink context (lines 1, 1)␤Useless use of constant integer 3 in sink context (lines 1, 1)␤Type check failed in assignment to $a; expected Buf[Int] but got Int (1)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> li…»
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23:00 viki W00t! I made delicious Perl 6 cookies \o/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media​/CxvZ0cQW8AAOm2E.jpg:large
23:00 viki >:)
23:02 seatek mmm :)
23:02 AlexDaniel one on the right is like
23:02 AlexDaniel
23:03 grondilu_ joined #perl6
23:05 dmaestro Building libreadline on my system leaves undefined symbols in the shared libraries that Readline can't seem to handle.
23:06 dmaestro I've tried the builtin libreadline.so.5 and a newly-compiled libreadline.so.6, and neither one will load.
23:07 dmaestro Symbols: UP PC BC
23:08 dmaestro So I'm taking timotimo's suggestion to install Linenoise.
23:08 grondilu joined #perl6
23:09 dmaestro And Linenoise works fine, where Readline didn't
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23:34 BenGoldberg viki, If the cookie on the left has peanut butter chips, I'll have that one.
23:39 xinming joined #perl6
23:42 viki BenGoldberg: sadly, I already ate all of them :)
23:44 Actualeyes joined #perl6
23:57 seatek i was hoping those were butterscotch :)
23:58 dextertzu joined #perl6
23:59 skink What's the trick to get MAIN() to take an array?
23:59 skink A list of paths, specifically

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