Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2016-11-28

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:26 mj41 moritz:  https://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/2016-book-runing-rakudo.html ++ ... My Docker image is not official. You should recommend https://hub.docker.com/_/rakudo-star/
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00:41 seatek timotimo: checked and the adverb stacking actually is mentioned already
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02:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:30 [Coke] day 1 article is up and ready to go for 12/1.
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03:31 [Coke] right now it says the url will be /11/28, but I am hoping that will be correct when the publish happens.
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03:39 dalek mu: ed0d227 | (Will Coleda)++ | misc/perl6advent-2016/schedule:
03:39 dalek mu: Note that this one is ready to go.
03:39 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/ed0d227fd4
03:46 AlexDaniel the list is kinda… empty
03:46 AlexDaniel I wish I had more time :-/
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08:13 moritz mj41++
08:13 timotimo i'm not sure what to write about :S
08:18 gfldex i may have an adventpost unless it's to short. Is a short post better then none?
08:19 timotimo yes, a lot
08:24 * gfldex disengages the breaks
08:24 timotimo brakes? :)
08:25 timotimo don't forget people in here are willing to provide assistance
08:25 gfldex those too
08:25 gfldex i may need some input of jnthn, if he happens to be available
08:25 moritz timotimo: do a git log in all the repos you contributed to, find a commit that looks interesting, and talk a bit about it :-)
08:26 gfldex moritz: that's what I did :)
08:26 ZzZombo would it possible to provide a descriptive message when a parameter constraint fails?
08:26 ZzZombo be*
08:27 psch m: sub f($ where { $_ eq "foo" or die "can only do things with 'foo'!"}) { }; f "bar"
08:27 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«can only do things with 'foo'!␤  in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
08:29 moritz m: sub f($ where { $_ eq "foo" or fail "can only do things with 'foo'!"}) { }; f "bar"
08:29 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«can only do things with 'foo'!␤  in any  at /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm line 1␤  in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
08:30 psch i think there's a branch somewhere that stashes post constraints for more detail error messages too
08:31 seatek You cannot create an instance of this type -- that error message should be changed to "class not found" ;)
08:31 seatek well, assuming... etc., etc., ;)
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08:34 moritz seatek: "not found" error messages are bad
08:34 moritz seatek: why was it not found? did the runtime not try hard enough?
08:35 moritz if it wasn't found because it doesn't exist, just say so
08:36 seatek yeah i had spelled the class definition with an extra 't'... and took forever trying to figure out what it meany by that error message
08:37 seatek meant
08:37 seatek like a meany
08:37 seatek a simple not found, or not defined, or doesn't exist or anything like that would have been a great clue
08:37 psch m: class Aa { }; A.new
08:37 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared name:␤    A used at line 1␤»
08:38 seatek but it led me to thinking about types
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08:38 seatek and then whether classes inheriting from classes that use roles could cause a problem...
08:38 seatek etc., etc
08:39 seatek undeclared name would be awesome :)
08:40 psch seatek: well, your error message apparently comes from something with a Lexotic REPR vOV
08:40 psch s/V/v/
08:40 seatek it was called from a test
08:40 seatek so completely different scope
08:41 seatek and the use name This::thing was the "file" that contained further definitions of This::thing::like:this
08:41 gfldex m: multi sub trait_mod:<is>(Label $l, :$foo){}; FOO is foo: for 1,2,3 { next FOO }
08:41 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
08:47 seatek what's nice is that when i spell it right it works
08:50 timotimo does it actually run, gfldex? o_O
08:52 gfldex m: multi sub trait_mod:<is>(Label $l, :$foo){ say 'it does run or does it?' }; FOO is foo: for 1,2,3 { next FOO }
08:52 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unexpected block in infix position (missing statement control word before the expression?)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3un or does it?' }; FOO is foo: for 1,2,37⏏5 { next FOO }␤    expecting any of:␤   …»
08:54 gfldex m: multi sub trait_mod:<is>(Label $l, :$foo){}; FOO is foo: for 1,2,3 { next FOO }
08:54 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unexpected block in infix position (missing statement control word before the expression?)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3abel $l, :$foo){}; FOO is foo: for 1,2,37⏏5 { next FOO }␤    expecting any of:␤   …»
08:54 gfldex looks like it just stopped working o.0
08:54 DrForr Oh dear god, someone is actually *using* Slang::Roman.
08:56 timotimo :D :D
08:56 timotimo maybe Slang::Roman is a good topic for an advent post?
08:56 DrForr Well, at least submitted an issue.
08:57 DrForr And yes, I do want to do something, haven't gotten inspiration yet.
08:57 arnsholt Haha. Took me a second to realize that 0r was not standard Perl 6 notation
08:57 arnsholt Too much SmallTalk recently =D
08:58 timotimo what does smalltalk do with 0r?
08:58 arnsholt Not 0r actually
08:59 arnsholt But <base>r<digit> is how you write arbitrary-base numbers
08:59 arnsholt So 16rDEADBEEF for hexadecimal for example
09:00 gfldex m: multi sub trait_mod:<is>(Label $l, :$foo){ say 'cally cally' }; FOO: for 1,2,3 { next FOO }; BEGIN &trait_mod:<is>(FOO, :foo);
09:00 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«cally cally␤»
09:00 gfldex timotimo: ^^^
09:01 timotimo pff :)
09:02 gfldex m: multi sub trait_mod:<is>(Label $l, :$foo){ say 'cally cally' }; FOO: for 1,2,3 { say 'but is it called in the right order?'; next FOO }; BEGIN &trait_mod:<is>(FOO, :foo);
09:02 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«cally cally␤but is it called in the right order?␤but is it called in the right order?␤but is it called in the right order?␤»
09:02 gfldex it is \o/
09:04 Xliff Is it better to use // in this situation: my $a = $this-might-not-be-defined // $default-val.
09:05 Xliff Or should I be using ||
09:05 psch m: say 0 // 1
09:05 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«0␤»
09:05 psch m: say 0 || 1
09:05 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«1␤»
09:05 psch m: say Int // 1
09:05 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«1␤»
09:05 Xliff Yes. I am doing an if-not-defined-then....
09:05 timotimo for defined you need //
09:05 timotimo that's the defining characteristic :)
09:05 psch Xliff: infix:<//> is "$LHS.defined ?? $LHS !! $RHS"
09:05 psch Xliff: infix:<||> is "so $LHS ?? $LHS !! $RHS"
09:06 Xliff Then I am using it correctly.
09:06 Xliff Rather, I am doing what I thought I was supposed to be doing.
09:06 psch ...except i think so has lower precedence than ternary..?
09:06 Xliff And I do not have to rewrite a lot of code.
09:06 psch m: say so 0 ?? 0 !! 1
09:06 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«True␤»
09:06 psch yeah, looks like
09:07 Xliff Why the use of so?
09:07 timotimo to check precedence, i think?
09:07 Xliff (so $LHS) ?? $LHS !! $RHS
09:07 psch Xliff: just for being explicit, you're right it's not needed (and actually wrong because precedence)
09:07 Xliff ok
09:07 Xliff So I can go back into lurk mode.
09:07 * Xliff lurks.
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09:10 dalek mu: 5f1feb2 | gfldex++ | misc/perl6advent-2016/schedule:
09:10 dalek mu: Update schedule
09:10 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/5f1feb23a2
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09:34 dalek doc: ecc15e2 | gfldex++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6:
09:34 synopsebot6 Link: http://doc.perl6.org/language/glossary
09:34 dalek doc: since we link to Multi-Dispatch, we might actually put a text there
09:34 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ecc15e2983
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09:42 travis-ci Doc build errored. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'since we link to Multi-Dispatch, we might actually put a text there'
09:42 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/179377409 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/3904632bffc3...ecc15e2983a4
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10:08 seatek omg, omg, omg - TWEAK really does exist now! um.. i mean... yeah, nice evening we're having...
10:08 timotimo yeah, it does
10:08 timotimo i'm glad you noticed :)
10:09 seatek it's like early christmas!
10:09 timotimo i'm glad i could be santa for someone
10:09 seatek oh you did it! thanks timotimo++ :)
10:09 timotimo :3
10:10 seatek i'm not going to go back and undo my crazy BUILD gyrations from before, but from this point on... so much nicer
10:10 timotimo cool
10:10 * seatek was secretly holding out for TWERK
10:12 timotimo the mechanism that makes TWERK work is accessible from perl6 code, and overridable from a method you put into your own things
10:12 timotimo so you can have TWERK
10:12 seatek hehe :)
10:13 timotimo really, you can make anything happen if you want
10:13 timotimo randomize the order of initialization, for example
10:13 timotimo run a piece of code after every step of the buildplan, why not
10:14 seatek i would. but i've been having to deal with those Crust guys, and they're more anal retentive than a 50's propaganda housewife with cleaning chemicals and gloves
10:14 timotimo um, wat?
10:15 seatek absolute properness, cleanliness and conformity
10:15 seatek that's my motto now
10:15 seatek i'm gonna buy a uniform
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10:16 timotimo it looks like crust hasn't been committed to for almost a year
10:16 pierre_ joined #perl6
10:16 timotimo so what keeps you from just forking and doing what you need?
10:16 seatek yes i'm tempted to fork it away
10:16 timotimo i thought these words you used were a bit excessively harsh
10:17 timotimo but what do i know :)
10:17 seatek i have a couple stupid severs that leave the environment with 2 environment variables in it HTTP_CONTENT_TYPE is one of them
10:17 seatek it must not be there
10:17 seatek it's called CONTENT_TYPE!!!!
10:18 seatek if HTTP_CONTENT_TYPE is there as well, Crust kills itself
10:18 seatek i just wanted to be able to turn off that check
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10:18 timotimo having a clean environment is pretty important, have you not seen the recent thing where you could tell most servers on the 'net to use your privately supplied proxy server for all their own http requests?
10:18 seatek cuz the CGI spec says nothing about it nto being there... but no, they conform to PSGI whose document says that it must not be there. it doesn't say you have to die though
10:19 seatek yes! but it's not even enabled (that check) unless you use their Lint filter -- if you enable that, which they suggest
10:19 Xliff Just FORK IT, man!
10:19 Xliff FORK IT!!!
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10:20 * Xliff throws up his hands in mock frustration.
10:20 seatek well, i submitted another pull request to the SCGI crust handler middlewear guy, to check for and delete those environment variables if they exist
10:20 seatek but i hate that, becuase you're going through the environment YET AGAIN in the whole twisty, turny Crusty process
10:21 seatek anyway, if i were to name something TWERK and those guys saw it, they'd have a anuryism. o
10:22 seatek suppose you're a parent
10:22 seatek you have a baby
10:22 seatek and you don't want that baby to see something weird and crazy out there, cuz you think it might be dangerous
10:22 seatek and some people from the world come knocking on your door.
10:23 seatek what do you do? send them away?
10:23 seatek no, you shoot your baby so it won't see anything weird
10:23 seatek how does that make sense?
10:23 psch ...what
10:23 seatek they would not be good parents
10:23 Xliff Oh, that is some really twisted logic there.
10:23 seatek ;) i'm good at that :)
10:23 Xliff I've noticed.
10:23 Xliff 8-)
10:25 seatek if the crust handler scgi guy doesn't take the pull request to delete those 2 stupid environment variables if they exist, i'll just copy the crust lint middleware and pull out the murderous fascism from it
10:26 Xliff FORK IT!!!!!
10:26 Xliff Fork the code fascists!!!
10:26 seatek Crust::Middleware::Lint::Dangerous
10:26 Xliff Fork 'em!
10:27 seatek Crust::Middleware::Lint::Egalitarian
10:27 masak TIL Perl 5 allows printing to a string by calling `open()` on a reference to the string. (since 5.8.0)
10:28 seatek that's bizarre. i've been writing so many tests lately that it sounds interesting too
10:31 seatek did you know they used to use the moon as a communications satellite?
10:32 timotimo bounce things off of it?
10:32 seatek yup
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10:32 timotimo makes some sense, the moon is visible from a broad chunk of the earth at the same time
10:33 seatek i've been reading this book on the formation of Iridium that satellite company
10:33 DrForr And creator of Iridium flares :)
10:33 seatek i never understood why they were called that either :)
10:34 seatek they chose the name Iridium because it was the atomic number of the number of satellites they needed
10:34 * Xliff screams in frustration as he realizes he needs to refactor a bunch of code he just finished writing.
10:35 * seatek has a brief twinge of empathy for Xliff, then has more pie
10:35 Xliff Hope your pie-hole doesn't choke on that pie!
10:35 moritz Xliff: better refactor it now, when you're still familiar with it, than in half a year
10:35 Xliff moritz: Yes. However refactoring is best done after sleep.
10:36 Xliff Which I am lacking.
10:36 seatek you'll forget everything by morning
10:36 Xliff Insomnia is a pain in the ass.
10:36 * Xliff glares at seatek.
10:36 Xliff I'll have you know I make copious comments. I'll be fine. :P
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10:37 seatek i started using a blue filter thingy for nighttime work, and i get tired quicker now
10:38 Xliff blue. filter. hunh?
10:38 timotimo throws out blueish colors
10:38 timotimo think of it as going into submarine mode
10:38 Xliff Filter on what?
10:38 timotimo displays
10:38 Xliff Oh.
10:38 timotimo you may know it as f.lux or redshift
10:38 seatek yeah it makes it all subdued
10:38 timotimo yesterday i learned from a friend that you can turn the color temperature even lower than the default
10:39 Xliff https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=4&amp;cad=rja&amp;uact=8&amp;ved=0ahUKEwirytuZocvQAhXCNSYKHVlLAbwQFggzMAM&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redshift3d.com%2F&amp;usg=AFQjCNEtUIqSGRxyltiGVZDPYITJl7PZ2Q&amp;sig2=e_zYeBZZgaQxl47fM9ofVA
10:39 Xliff ???
10:39 Xliff Oh dammit, google.
10:39 timotimo i have it set to 2500 during the night now, and it's really, really, really red
10:39 Xliff https://www.redshift3d.com/ ???
10:39 timotimo no
10:39 seatek have you tried turning it off timotimo ? i do that sometimes and it's like burning my eyes
10:39 timotimo http://jonls.dk/redshift/
10:39 timotimo yes
10:39 Xliff Which is better?
10:40 seatek non-burt eyes
10:40 Xliff Correction... which one are you using?
10:40 timotimo they are not comparable, Xliff
10:40 seatek what OS? i'm using ubuntu on on it....
10:40 seatek redshift
10:41 seatek on windows i use f.whatever that was
10:41 seatek f.lux?
10:41 seatek yes f.lux
10:42 seatek i like redshift better though
10:42 seatek oo thanks for that link timotimo i'm gonna play with the config file
10:43 timotimo i'm sad that i can't set brightness above 1.0 :P
10:43 * Xliff hacks registry.
10:44 seatek i never tried reshift on windows
10:44 seatek it's experimental...
10:45 moritz fwiw on android I use twilight
10:46 seatek that might not be a bad idea either!
10:46 moritz though in the morning I sometimes have to switch it off because it causes some jumps in display brightness
10:49 Xliff What is a good blue-shifted temp for redshift?
10:50 seatek mine's at 3500 right now and it's nice and dreamy
10:51 * nine just avoids looking at a screen before going to bed...
10:51 seatek i lack that kind of willpower
10:52 Xliff Wow!
10:52 nine Proper sleep does improve willpower btw ;)
10:52 Xliff That is easier on the eyes.
10:52 Xliff Now I'm getting all.s..zzzzzzzzzzzz
10:53 tadzik I'm at 5500
10:53 seatek nine - is your scope-tightening stuff, with the need to put more use's in, going to effect compile times at all? or is the compiler going to be smart enough about them?
10:53 seatek Xliff: nice isn't it! :)
10:53 * Xliff is sleeping. Do not disturb!
10:55 ZzZombo m: class A{has $!a;method m{$!a}};say A.new.m
10:55 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
10:57 seatek i'm starting to get paranoid about compile times now, with the size of the thing i'm working on, and have resorted to developing by just using tests.. but that' even getting long now... so i've resorted to simulating the use of some classes when testing even...
10:58 seatek i mean, if it comes to the point where i actually have to think about what i'm typing before i type it!...
10:59 seatek i kinda like compiling though. it's got a certain... zen about it
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10:59 ZzZombo uh, how do I check a value is specifically not Any?
10:59 seatek .defined
10:59 ZzZombo no
10:59 ZzZombo only Any, not Nil or anything else
11:00 DrForr $a !~~ Any # ?
11:00 psch m: say 1 ~~ Any
11:00 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«True␤»
11:00 DrForr True, Any is the root of too many things.
11:00 seatek i think that if anything is something it's not Any
11:01 psch if you're sure you never get Any.new you can do !=:= Any
11:01 psch m: say Any =:= Any; say 1 =:= Any; say Nil =:= Any
11:01 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«True␤False␤False␤»
11:01 jnthn $value !=== Any
11:01 psch m: say Any.new === Any
11:01 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:02 seatek it's like the infinities again, only crazier
11:02 ZzZombo eh, that works! Thanks.
11:02 seatek how do you set a variable to Any?
11:03 ZzZombo my $a=Any?
11:03 seatek m: my $i = 1; $i = Any;
11:03 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
11:03 lizmat my $a
11:03 ZzZombo or leave it andefined
11:03 ZzZombo undefined*
11:03 lizmat m: dd my $a
11:03 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Any $a = Any␤»
11:03 gfldex m: my Any $a; # if you want to be explicit
11:03 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
11:08 nine seatek: I don't think it will effect compile times. Using an already loaded module doesn't cost much.
11:08 seatek nine: nice :) thank you :)
11:09 seatek m: my $i = 3; say $i.WHAT
11:09 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
11:09 seatek m: my $i = 3; say $i.WHAT; $i = Any; say $i.WHAT
11:09 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(Int)␤(Any)␤»
11:09 seatek m: my $i = 3; say $i.WHAT; $i = Any; say $i.WHAT; my Int $c = 2; $c = Any;
11:09 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(Int)␤(Any)␤Type check failed in assignment to $c; expected Int but got Any (Any)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
11:09 seatek that's how i get confused about Any's
11:10 psch why?
11:10 psch Any is the default type constraint
11:10 psch m: sub f($) { }; say &f.signature.params[0].type
11:10 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
11:10 seatek but $i is an Int
11:10 seatek can ints be set to Any?
11:10 psch yeah, but liskov only works downwards not upwards
11:10 gfldex m: say Any.WHO, Any.new.WHO
11:10 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«AnyAny␤»
11:11 psch seatek: you assign an Int to a variable that is constrained to Any
11:11 psch m: say Int.^mro
11:11 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«((Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
11:11 psch seatek: Int isa Any
11:11 gfldex ZzZombo: you have to check .WHO
11:11 psch seatek: but you can't assign an Any to a variable constrained to Int
11:11 seatek ah.. .ok got it
11:11 seatek yeah that makes perfect sense now
11:11 ZzZombo why?
11:12 gfldex because a test against .WHO does not care about inheritance
11:12 seatek that's actually kinda neat more than confusing now :)
11:13 ZzZombo like this:
11:13 ZzZombo if $value.WHO!===Any.WHO
11:13 ZzZombo ?
11:14 gfldex yes
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11:16 gfldex m: sub Any(){Int}; dd Any, Any()
11:16 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Any␤Any(Any)␤»
11:16 gfldex m: sub Any(){'oi‽'}; dd Any, Any()
11:16 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Any␤Any(Any)␤»
11:17 psch m: dd Any(StR)
11:17 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared name:␤    StR used at line 1. Did you mean 'str', 'Str'?␤␤»
11:17 psch m: dd Any(Str)
11:17 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Any(Str)␤»
11:17 psch can't overwrite coercers, they're hiding deep in the guts
11:17 jnthn It's a parse-time distinction.
11:17 gfldex it should complain when I try to define that sub
11:17 jnthn Why?
11:18 psch m: sub Any() { say "not really Any" }; say &Any()
11:18 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«not really Any␤True␤»
11:18 gfldex because I'm stupid and Rakudo is not
11:18 gfldex anyway that's a ENODOC that I shall act upon
11:20 chinarulezzz joined #perl6
11:24 dalek doc: 53ef347 | gfldex++ | doc/Type/Sub.pod6:
11:24 synopsebot6 Link: http://doc.perl6.org/type/Sub
11:24 dalek doc: show how to call subs that (don't) overload coercers
11:24 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/53ef347a75
11:32 travis-ci joined #perl6
11:32 travis-ci Doc build errored. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'show how to call subs that (don't) overload coercers'
11:32 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/179404506 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/ecc15e2983a4...53ef347a7508
11:32 travis-ci left #perl6
11:33 seatek traavisssss....
11:33 jnthn TIL you can use $!foo in a signature anywhere inside a method, not just in the method signature itself
11:34 jnthn For example
11:34 jnthn method foo($bar) {
11:34 dalek doc: 8087f17 | gfldex++ | doc/Language/typesystem.pod6:
11:34 synopsebot6 Link: http://doc.perl6.org/language/typesystem
11:34 dalek doc: we can use the MOP to add coercers
11:34 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8087f1782f
11:34 jnthn with resolve($bar) -> $!bar { }
11:34 psch ah, the 'just' works as an 'only' there
11:35 psch cause i had some trouble parsing that
11:35 jnthn Hm :)
11:35 jnthn Yes, "not only in the method sig" is also a valid way to put it :)
11:35 jnthn It saved me a $!bar = $_; inside of the block, anyway
11:35 psch neat
11:36 jnthn Funny thing being, I never deliberately made that work. :)
11:36 jnthn It just naturally falls out of how attributive parameters are implemented.
11:37 jnthn Only just now was writing something and was like "hmm, I wonder if I could just..." :)
11:37 psch r: class A { has $.foo; method bar($baz) { with $baz -> $!foo { } } }; A.new.bar("quux").foo # aw :|
11:37 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
11:37 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 76b061: OUTPUT«Unable to bind attributive parameter '$!foo' - could not find self␤  in method bar at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
11:37 jnthn Aww
11:37 jnthn Wonder why.
11:38 psch probably because my impl of attributive binding isn't quite up to snuff :S
11:38 jnthn Maybe it's not looking in outer scopes for the self...
11:38 jnthn (Which this relies upon)
11:38 psch seems like this warrants a test, too
11:38 psch anyway, lunch time for me :)
11:39 jnthn ooh, lunch ain't a bad idea
11:39 masak psch: you want me to rakudobug that_
11:39 masak ?
11:39 viki masak: I was waiting for you to appear :) I have a Q
11:40 masak go ahead
11:40 viki masak: what's your opinion on printf having another candidate: (IO::Handle $fh, Cool $format, *@args)... that's adding to the current (Cool $format, *@args)... I recall you were against such variable args
11:41 viki Currently there's no functional way to printf to a filehandle and Perl 5 does use the same scheme I'm proposing.
11:42 viki (by functional I mean programming style; there is an OO way)
11:42 jnthn m: print $*OUT, 'hi'
11:42 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«This type cannot unbox to a native string: P6opaque, IO::Special␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
11:42 jnthn Note it'd be incosistent with other I/O functions
11:42 jnthn I'd say it should just me a method printf
11:42 jnthn m: print $*OUT: 'hi'
11:42 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«hi»
11:42 viki OK
11:42 jnthn m: printf $*OUT: 'hi'
11:42 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type List in numeric context␤␤Use of uninitialized value of type List in numeric context␤␤hi»
11:43 jnthn ...
11:43 jnthn And you can always do that, but what are the warnings about?
11:43 jnthn m: $*OUT.printf('hi')
11:43 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type List in numeric context␤␤Use of uninitialized value of type List in numeric context␤␤hi»
11:43 viki unsure. I only added that last night
11:43 jnthn m: $*OUT.printf("hi %d", 42)
11:43 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«hi 42»
11:44 viki m: printf 'meow'
11:44 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«meow»
11:44 viki weird. I'll take a look into that today
11:44 viki s: $*OUT, 'printf', \('x')
11:44 SourceBaby viki, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/7c1f5e1/src/core/IO/Handle.pm#L656
11:46 jnthn really lunch &
11:47 viki m: use nqp; sub foo (*@args) {  nqp::sprintf('x', nqp::clone(nqp::getattr(@args, List, '$!reified'))) }; foo
11:47 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type List in numeric context␤␤Use of uninitialized value of type List in numeric context␤␤»
11:47 viki m: use nqp; sub foo (*@args) {  nqp::sprintf('x', nqp::clone(nqp::getattr(@args, List, '$!reified'))) }; foo []
11:47 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
11:49 viki m: use nqp; sub foo (*@args) {  nqp::sprintf('x', nqp::clone(nqp::getattr(@args||[], List, '$!reified'))) }; foo
11:49 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
11:51 grondilu joined #perl6
11:52 viki m: sprintf 'x'
11:52 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type List in numeric context␤␤Use of uninitialized value of type List in numeric context␤␤»
11:52 viki hehehe :)
11:56 travis-ci joined #perl6
11:56 travis-ci Doc build passed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'we can use the MOP to add coercers'
11:56 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/179406783 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/53ef347a7508...8087f1782f97
11:56 travis-ci left #perl6
11:58 ZzZombo There is way to look what package something comes from, isn't there?
12:00 viki .WHO
12:00 viki m: package Meows; { sub foos is export {} }; import Meows; say &foos.WHO
12:00 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤This appears to be Perl 5 code. If you intended it to be Perl 6 code, please use a Perl 6 style declaration like "unit package Foo;" or "unit module Foo;", or use the block form instead of the semicolon form…»
12:01 viki m: package Meows { sub foos is export {} }; import Meows; say &foos.WHO
12:01 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Sub␤»
12:01 viki heh
12:02 viki m: package Meows { class foos {} }; import Meows; say Meows::foos.WHO
12:02 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Meows::foos␤»
12:02 viki m: package Meows { class foos {} }; import Meows; say Meows.WHO
12:02 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Meows␤»
12:03 * viki cues in "I've no idea what I'm doing" meme
12:07 ZzZombo Attribute::Handling is a builtin type, not an external module
12:07 ZzZombo wut
12:09 ZzZombo m: dd Attribute::Handling
12:09 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&Handling'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
12:10 ZzZombo m: use Attribute::Handling
12:10 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find Attribute::Handling at line 1 in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6␤    Com…»
12:10 ZzZombo W. T. F.
12:11 moritz who says that Attribute::Handling is a built-in type?
12:11 ZzZombo perl6
12:12 wamba joined #perl6
12:12 ZzZombo dayum
12:12 ZzZombo changed 'use' to 'import' and it worked.
12:12 ZzZombo WTF!!!
12:13 canopus joined #perl6
12:14 gregf_ joined #perl6
12:14 CIAvash joined #perl6
12:17 viki ZzZombo, a bug
12:18 ZzZombo Dear God...
12:19 viki There is no god
12:19 viki Does Attribute::Lazy suffer the same issue?
12:19 ZzZombo ah, you were supposed to answer with "There is more"
12:19 ZzZombo :(
12:20 ZzZombo Could not find Attribute::Lazy
12:20 ZzZombo I mean
12:20 ZzZombo "Could not find Attribute::Lazy"
12:20 viki I recall there being a bug with stuff that has core namespace in it, like IO::Whatever, so maybe this is the same
12:20 viki *shrug*
12:21 viki m: use Attribute::Handling
12:21 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find Attribute::Handling at line 1 in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6␤    Com…»
12:21 viki :/
12:21 viki Looks fine on camelia
12:21 ZzZombo That package is defined in the main Perl6 file.
12:22 ZzZombo That I use'd in the same file.
12:22 psch m: package Attribute::Foo { }; use Attribute::Foo
12:22 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Attribute::Foo is a builtin type, not an external module␤»
12:22 viki m: package Meows {}; use Meows
12:22 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find Meows at line 1 in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6␤    CompUnit::Reposit…»
12:22 viki aha
12:23 viki ZzZombo, would you report that bug?
12:23 ZzZombo how?
12:23 viki huggable, rakudobug
12:23 huggable viki, rakudobug@perl.org or use perl6 query on http://rt.perl.org ; see https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/#reporting-bugs
12:23 viki email to ^ that address
12:23 ZzZombo ye
12:23 viki Thanks
12:24 ZzZombo BTW, why you can't do
12:24 ZzZombo sub x(Type self: |blah)
12:24 ZzZombo as opposed to
12:24 ZzZombo sub x(Type $self: |blah)
12:24 ZzZombo ?
12:25 psch m: sub x(Int $self: ) { }
12:25 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Can only use the : invocant marker in the signature for a method␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub x(Int $self: 7⏏5) { }␤»
12:25 psch you can't do either?
12:25 psch m: sub x(Int self: ) { }
12:25 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed parameter␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub x(Int7⏏5 self: ) { }␤    expecting any of:␤        constraint␤        formal parameter␤»
12:25 ZzZombo eh, I meant method, sorry
12:25 psch 'self' is a special name that automatically exists lexically inside method bodies
12:26 psch m: class A { method f(A:D: ) { say self.perl } }; A.new.f
12:26 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«A.new␤»
12:26 psch hence you don't even need a name for the invocant
12:26 ZzZombo well, I thought for the same of explictioness, you should be able to do that.
12:27 psch well, you'd have to do it the normal way for sigilless parameters
12:27 psch m: class A { method f(A:D \self: ) { say self.perl } }; A.new.f
12:27 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Lexical 'self' already declared␤»
12:27 viki m: method (Int $self:) {}
12:27 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
12:27 psch but it's already there, sooo
12:28 viki works fine?
12:28 viki m: class { method (Int $self:) {} }.new
12:28 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
12:28 psch i suppose the \self case might be reasonable to make work, but it feels a bit weird honestly
12:29 CIAvash .tw CIAvash
12:29 yoleaux Added Perl 6 to alternativeTo #Perl6 https://alternativeto.net/software/perl-6/ (@CIAvash)
12:30 lucasb_ joined #perl6
12:31 masak viki: backlogging. I agree with jnthn; it should be a method.
12:32 masak viki: I don't remember being against such an extra candidate -- but consider me against it now :>
12:32 viki masak, it was when we were bikesheding comb 1, '...'
12:34 viki and you said something along the lines that variadics before normal params were a code smell
12:35 ZzZombo Dammit
12:35 viki .tw Zoffix
12:35 yoleaux Rakudo Star #Perl 6 Distro version 2016.11 is out 🎊🍻🎈🍕😀 http://rakudo.org/2016/11/27/announce-rakudo-star-release-2016-11/ #Programming #Perl (@zoffix)
12:35 viki neat
12:35 ZzZombo I forgot to fill in the topic of the letter
12:35 lucasb_ what is .tw?
12:35 ZzZombo will it get through?
12:35 viki twitter
12:36 lucasb_ ahh, interesting
12:36 viki ZzZombo, should, yeah
12:36 lucasb_ last tweet...
12:36 ZzZombo sweet
12:36 lucasb_ will TimToady be doing a blog post this year?
12:37 lucasb_ viki: I see you alreadry grabbed the 24th day. maybe he posts something on the 25th
12:37 ZzZombo <psch> i suppose the \self case might be reasonable to make work, but it feels a bit weird honestly
12:37 ZzZombo Almost everywhere I can see Perl allows to express yourself explicitly, however weird it may be.
12:38 psch ZzZombo: patches welcome :) it's probably somewhere around https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.nqp#L471
12:38 viki ZzZombo, it works tho, see my examples above
12:38 psch viki: it's explicitly about explicitly introducing a sigilless self in the method lexpad
12:39 psch viki: ZzZombo's point, that
12:39 viki ah
12:40 psch m: method (\self:) { } # as this forbids currently
12:40 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Lexical 'self' already declared␤»
12:40 viki hard to read code on this tiny thing :) http://imgur.com/D3TqoqI
12:41 psch ...that's really just your own fault :P
12:41 viki :)
12:41 psch ZzZombo: it might well be that you just gotta add a check in the if near the linked line that checks if there already is a lexical 'self'
12:43 viki w00t! I found a secret way to create RT tickets without using email :)
12:44 viki ( mobile )
12:45 viki ZzZombo, so you're from Russia?
12:46 ZzZombo Yes, why?
12:46 viki What city?
12:46 ZzZombo psch: maybe later, when I finish with this thing.
12:46 ZzZombo Ulan-Ude.
12:46 viki Ah. I lived in Novosibirsk for 15 years
12:47 ZzZombo Wow, how's that been?
12:47 viki It was ok
12:49 * jnthn visited Ulan Ude years ago
12:49 jnthn It's hard the unsee that huge Lenin head on the square :P
12:51 ZzZombo :)
12:51 * ZzZombo throws a snowball at viki and jnthn
12:51 ZzZombo From Russia with love :)
12:51 jnthn :)
12:52 jnthn Yay, some snow. I'm still waiting to get that here this winter... :)
12:54 dalek perl6.org: 7cbce3d | (Steve Mynott)++ | source/ (2 files):
12:54 dalek perl6.org: refs to Rakudo Star 2016.11
12:54 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/7cbce3deb0
12:55 pmurias joined #perl6
12:58 eliasr joined #perl6
12:58 user9 joined #perl6
13:04 ZzZombo m: put Bool::True
13:04 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«True␤»
13:05 brillenfux joined #perl6
13:06 viki m: put Bool::True.perl
13:06 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
13:09 pierre_ joined #perl6
13:09 ZzZombo m: my %x;%x<a>=Nil;%x<a>.get_value();
13:09 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«No such method 'get_value' for invocant of type 'Any'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
13:10 ZzZombo why "Any"? It's Nil.
13:10 ZzZombo It got me confused.
13:10 psch m: my $x = Nil; say $x
13:10 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
13:10 psch Nil is literally no value, which means assigning Nil to something is resetting it to the default
13:10 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
13:10 psch m: my $x is default(42) = 10; say $x; $x = Nil; say $x
13:10 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«10␤42␤»
13:10 ZzZombo ugh
13:11 psch ZzZombo: you seem to be X/Y-ing :)
13:11 psch ZzZombo: or, well, maybe exploring semantics vOv
13:12 jnthn Nil means you don't have to worry what type something was declared with in order to clear it
13:15 ZzZombo But then how do I know for sure for example, .first() just didn't found anything instead of finding a value that happened to be Any. I always thought of Nil like 'there is nothing to return, but everything is totally okay',
13:15 ZzZombo find*
13:15 dalek doc: 29fd20f | gfldex++ | doc/Language/functions.pod6:
13:15 synopsebot6 Link: http://doc.perl6.org/language/functions
13:15 dalek doc: link to Method and Sub
13:15 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/29fd20f23d
13:15 dalek doc: 35b4489 | gfldex++ | doc/Language/functions.pod6:
13:15 dalek doc: methods can exist independently of objects
13:15 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/35b44892f8
13:15 synopsebot6 Link: http://doc.perl6.org/language/functions
13:18 psch m: say <a b c>.first: { $_ eq .uc }
13:18 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
13:18 psch m: say [Int, Str, Any].first: { $_ === Any }
13:18 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
13:18 * psch doesn't understand the question
13:19 ZzZombo I dunno, it's what I got.
13:19 jnthn I think the question is "if I assign it into a variable, the Nil vanishes, so what do I do?"
13:19 viki If you store the result in a variable you won't be able to tell the difference
13:19 jnthn m: my $a = [Int, Str, Any].first: { $_ === Any }; say $a
13:19 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
13:19 psch oh, right, on assignment it gets weird
13:19 jnthn m: my $a = [Int, Str].first: { $_ === Any }; say $a
13:19 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
13:19 jnthn Like that for example
13:20 jnthn m: my $a := [Int, Str].first: { $_ === Any }; say $a
13:20 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
13:20 jnthn m: my $a := [Int, Str, Any].first: { $_ === Any }; say $a
13:20 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
13:20 jnthn But the behavior is a property of assignment, so just don't assign. :)
13:20 psch clearly we need a with-derivate that distinguishes only on === Nil
13:20 psch (we don't actually need that i think)
13:20 jnthn Not really.
13:20 jnthn How often are you actually working with type objects?
13:21 psch well, they usually come as SixModelObject when i'm working with them :)
13:21 jnthn Note that if you were doing .first({ $_ === Nil }) you're back to square one again :)
13:22 gfldex m: my @a = <a b c>.first: { $_ eq .uc }; say @a ~~ (), @a ~~ Empty;
13:22 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«FalseFalse␤»
13:23 gfldex i would have goess that Empty smart matches against an empty Array
13:23 viki Well, it's a Slip
13:24 viki s: Slip, 'ACCEPTS', \([])
13:24 SourceBaby viki, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/843a6be/src/core/Any.pm#L19
13:24 viki s: Slip.new, 'ACCEPTS', \([])
13:24 SourceBaby viki, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/843a6be/src/core/List.pm#L760
13:24 viki :o
13:24 viki m: say Slip.^mro
13:24 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«((Slip) (List) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
13:24 gfldex i would also expect the empty list to match against an empty Array
13:25 viki s: &infix:<~~>, \([], Empty)
13:25 SourceBaby viki, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/843a6be/src/core/Mu.pm#L818
13:25 gfldex m: say List.new ~~ (), List.new ~~ Empty;
13:25 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«TrueTrue␤»
13:25 viki I'm guessing this is the same issue as with andthen + orelse
13:26 viki The Empty vanishes when passed to infix:<~~>
13:26 * viki has no idea
13:26 gfldex can it be special cased?
13:27 aborazmeh joined #perl6
13:27 aborazmeh joined #perl6
13:27 viki The output from SourceBaby would suggest it doesn't vanish
13:27 gfldex m: my @a; say @a.list ~~ (), @a.list ~~ Empty;
13:27 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«TrueTrue␤»
13:28 viki m: say [] ~~ Empty;
13:28 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«True␤»
13:28 viki m: my @a = <a b c>.first: { $_ eq .uc }; dd @a
13:28 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Array @a = [Any]␤»
13:28 viki Well, there's your problem
13:28 viki :D
13:29 gfldex m: my @a := <a b c>.first: { $_ eq .uc }; dd @a
13:29 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected Positional but got Nil (Nil)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
13:29 ZzZombo why do you use arrays for stroing .first() results?
13:29 ZzZombo storing*
13:30 gfldex because Array is to go-to-class for things that have more then one value
13:30 viki Can you get more than one value with .first?
13:30 gfldex if it's a LoL i might
13:31 viki But it'd still be 1 value
13:31 viki m: my @a = [<a b c>, <f g e>].first: { $_ eqv <a b c> }; dd @a
13:31 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Array @a = [("a", "b", "c"),]␤»
13:31 timotimo yeah, you'll need to grep + [^2] or something
13:31 gfldex in that case i'm just confused
13:32 gfldex still I will rakudobug @a ~~ () to get a fix or a docable answer
13:32 gfldex no, i wont :)
13:33 gfldex m: say Array.new ~~ (), Array.new ~~ Empty;
13:33 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
13:33 viki erm why is that no output?
13:33 gfldex that just worked in a /query to camelia
13:33 viki m: say Array.new ~~ (), Array.new ~~ Empty;
13:33 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«TrueTrue␤»
13:34 * viki chalks it up to camelia bug
13:34 gfldex m: say Seq.new ~~ (), Seq.new ~~ Empty;
13:34 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
13:34 gfldex m: my @a; say @a.Seq ~~ (), @a.Seq ~~ Empty;
13:34 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«TrueTrue␤»
13:35 ZzZombo Alright, I hope you will catch that pesky bug, if it's not a phantom. Gotta catch some sleep instead.
13:35 gfldex i somehow like @a ~~ () better then @a.elems == 0
13:36 viki m: package Attribute::Foo { }; use Attribute::Foo
13:36 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
13:36 viki m: package IO::Foo { }; use IO::Foo
13:36 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
13:36 viki m: package IO::Foo { }; use IO::Foo
13:36 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤»
13:37 gfldex m: my @a; say so @a.Seq ~~ ()|Empty;
13:37 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
13:37 gfldex m: my @a; say so @a.Seq ~~ () | Empty;
13:37 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
13:37 camelia joined #perl6
13:37 gfldex i broke camelia :(
13:38 viki I restarted her
13:39 lucasb_ m: package IO::Foo { }; use IO::Foo
13:39 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤IO::Foo is a builtin type, not an external module␤»
13:40 viki ah crap. it was just a camelia bug :(
13:40 lucasb_ how come this snippet changed from previous evaluation?
13:40 * viki already commented on RT ticket
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13:40 viki lucasb_: camelia was sick.
13:40 lucasb_ ah
13:43 lucasb_ the ticket about get and prompt in REPL...
13:44 lucasb_ if you call get/prompt, then it'll wait for you to type something and press enter, even in the REPL
13:44 viki That's a dupe, there's already a ticket from 2016.04 or something
13:44 lucasb_ or maybe it's something broken on the windows system of the user
13:44 lucasb_ viki: what? is it a valid issue?
13:45 lucasb_ I thougth it was just a misunderstanding
13:45 lucasb_ or mis-expectation
13:45 viki lucasb_: yeah, it just hangs
13:45 viki I just tried in 2016.04, and I'm guessing that's still present in 2016.11
13:46 viki I pressed Enter, CTRL+D, CTRL+C nothing does anything
13:46 viki but it works fine outside the REPL
13:46 dalek doc: 2cf9b86 | gfldex++ | doc/Type/List.pod6:
13:46 synopsebot6 Link: http://doc.perl6.org/type/List
13:46 dalek doc: we should list () as a way to create List, also show ~~ against ()
13:46 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2cf9b86697
13:46 lucasb_ well, in my environment it's different
13:47 viki This is on Win7 Professional
13:47 lucasb_ ah, right. sorry
13:48 * viki prefers just evaulaing @a in bool context instead of either @a ~~ () or @a.elems == 0 :)
13:48 DrForr Win7 "professional"... Heh.
13:49 viki In fact,  @a.Bool can be faster than @a.elems, 'cause .elems reifies everything, but .Bool just 1 item
13:49 viki DrForr: ? what
13:49 gfldex does ~~ () call .Bool ?
13:50 viki s: &infix:<~~>, \([], ())
13:50 SourceBaby viki, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/843a6be/src/core/Mu.pm#L818
13:50 viki s: &infix:<~~>, \([], (),)
13:50 SourceBaby viki, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/843a6be/src/core/Mu.pm#L818
13:50 viki :(
13:51 lucasb_ how do I use SourceBaby? I want to search for the List.ACCEPTS method
13:51 viki s: (), 'ACCEPTS', \([])
13:51 SourceBaby viki, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/843a6be/src/core/List.pm#L760
13:51 viki SourceBaby: help
13:51 SourceBaby viki, Use s: trigger with args to give to sourcery sub. e.g. s: Int, 'base'. See http://modules.perl6.org/dist/CoreHackers::Sourcery
13:51 lucasb_ viki: thanks
13:53 viki hm, I thought smartmatch against a List just matched by elements
13:53 viki by number of elements that is
13:54 viki m: say so (42, 42) ~~ (Match.new)
13:54 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«True␤»
13:55 viki m: say (42, 42, 42) ~~ (Match.new, Match.new)
13:55 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«False␤»
13:56 viki m: say (42) ~~ (Match.new, Match.new)
13:56 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(「」 「」)␤»
13:56 viki m: say (42,) ~~ (Match.new, Match.new)
13:56 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«False␤»
13:56 viki AH
13:56 viki m: say so (42, 42) ~~ (Match.new,)
13:56 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«False␤»
13:57 psch m: say "foo" ~~ m:g/(.)/
13:57 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(「f」␤ 0 => 「f」 「o」␤ 0 => 「o」 「o」␤ 0 => 「o」)␤»
13:57 viki Ah
13:57 psch ^^^ that is also List on the RHS
13:57 viki m: say Match.^mro
13:57 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«((Match) (Capture) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
13:57 psch m: say ("foo" ~~ m:g/(.)/).WHAT
13:57 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
13:57 viki m: say "foo" ~~ m:g/(.)/; say $/.^mro
13:57 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(「f」␤ 0 => 「f」 「o」␤ 0 => 「o」 「o」␤ 0 => 「o」)␤((List) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
13:58 viki It also has some sort of magic for HyperWhatevers: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/843a6be/src/core/List.pm#L773-L788
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14:00 viki Here's the other prompt-hangs-on-windws ticket https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128822#ticket-history
14:09 viki gfldex: no, it doesn't. The, .elems gets called on () right away, and .elems gets called on the LHS array here, when `<` is called: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/843a6be/src/core/List.pm#L772
14:09 viki `<` -> .Real -> .Numeric -> .elems
14:11 viki m: my $seq = (1 ... 1e100); say so $seq
14:11 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«True␤»
14:12 viki m: my $seq = (1 ... 1e100); say $seq ~~ ()
14:12 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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14:12 viki m: my $seq = (1 ... 1e100); say $seq.elems == 0
14:12 viki :)
14:12 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
14:13 gfldex this may provide lizmat with the reason to special case
14:21 viki s/The, .elems gets called on () right away//; # that only happens when LHS is not an Iterable
14:21 viki # but that's not the part that makes the above timeout
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14:32 moritz star-m: use JSON::Tiny; say to-json(42);
14:32 camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT«42␤»
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14:37 viki star-m: use JSON::Fast; say to-json 42
14:37 camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT«42␤»
14:37 viki star-m: use JSON::Fast; say from-json '42'
14:37 camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT«a JSON string ought to be a list or an object␤  in sub from-json at /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6/site/sources/11ED005DCC03AA42CAA87A439556DB9B6B2C9E59 (JSON::Fast) line 305␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:37 viki ehehe
14:38 viki I love that it generates what it thinks is invalid JSON :)
14:40 timotimo oh, right, it ought to allow just literals, right?
14:40 timotimo i forgot what json now actually is and what it isn't
14:40 viki timotimo: yeah: https://github.com/timo/json_fast/issues/9
14:45 timotimo why didn't i fix that yet?
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14:51 nicq20 Hello o/
14:51 viki \o
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14:59 timotimo done, btw
14:59 dalek doc: b800bd2 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | README.md:
14:59 dalek doc: Trigger doc rebuild
14:59 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b800bd2348
15:00 viki gfldex: should rebuild now. I recall someone updated perl6 on hack, but they never ran `rakudobrew rehash` to update the shims for executables, so the doc build was failing, because pod2bigpage wasn't found
15:05 dalek doc: 3c2d876 | coke++ | doc/Type/List.pod6:
15:05 synopsebot6 Link: http://doc.perl6.org/type/List
15:05 dalek doc: fix typos
15:05 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3c2d876c2c
15:05 dalek doc: 8f6f8d0 | coke++ | xt/code.pws:
15:05 dalek doc: learn new code
15:05 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8f6f8d036a
15:08 [Coke] viki: if there are more instructions to upgrading rakudobrew, please add them to "https://github.com/perl6/infrastructure-doc/blob/master/hosts/hack.p6c.org.pod#updating-rakudobrew" (I'm the one that just updated it, based on those directions)
15:09 [Coke] apologies for any disruption.
15:11 * viki adds `rakudobrew rehash` to ./upgrade-rakudobrew script
15:11 [Coke] viki++
15:11 [Coke] given that the directions blow away .rakudobrew ... what does the rehash do on a fresh install?
15:12 viki You need to run it after installing any module that installs binaries
15:12 [Coke] ew. Ok.
15:13 viki :)
15:14 DrForr Aren't we pushing people that aren't core devs away from rakudobrew?
15:14 viki Yes.
15:14 DrForr (not saying that you aren't, just curious.)
15:14 [Coke] mst was, I think. I am a core dev, so it's hard to argue. :)
15:14 [Coke] (coreish?)
15:15 [Coke] Down to 13 gaps in the calendar. first gap is 8 days out.
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15:16 viki Is #1 spot now chizzeled in stone?
15:16 * viki was hoping for some sort of State of The Butterfly recap for the year
15:16 viki huggable: advent
15:16 huggable viki, https://github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/misc/perl6advent-2016/schedule
15:19 viki nice to have bdfoy pitching in a post...
15:19 viki maybe worth mentioning to him that MAIN args get the same treatment as <...> he opened a ticket about a few days ago...
15:20 [Coke] viki: it's set to be published on Dec 1st; there's a paragraph or so about how it's been year, isn't that grand?
15:21 dalek mu: 3b2bf4e | moritz++ | misc/perl6advent-2016/schedule:
15:21 dalek mu: [p6advent]: Move my slot further to the front, talk about other Perl 6 books too
15:21 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/3b2bf4ed67
15:22 dalek mu: eee14b7 | jnthn++ | misc/perl6advent-2016/schedule:
15:22 dalek mu: Update schedule
15:22 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/eee14b7d02
15:22 viki [Coke]: sounds good
15:22 * jnthn finally thought up a topic in the shower this morning, then forgot to add it to the schedule :)
15:23 [Coke] Down to 12 gaps in the calendar. First gap is 9 days out.
15:23 [Coke] viki: I'm still happy to switch if someone wants, though.
15:23 [Coke] just need to change the schedule and make a slight update to the first paragraph.
15:24 [Coke] note: since day 1 is already up there in preview form, please feel free to read it and give feedback.
15:25 [Coke] ah, I did'nt actually hit schedule, only set the time.
15:25 [Coke] I hit schedule.
15:26 [Coke] and now the date in the URL looks right.
15:27 [Coke] when you schedule wordpress, does it make the article available at the published URL immediately, but not link to it anywhere but the admin screen?
15:27 [Coke] 'cause I have a URL to share if someone wants to read it.
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15:28 moritz [Coke]: it's only available to logged-in folks in that blog
15:28 moritz with sufficient access (editor or administrator, iirc)
15:28 [Coke] so I can share it here without concern?
15:28 moritz yes
15:28 viki [Coke]: well, I'd love to do a recap of the year. I imagine there are some folks who weren't impressed with our "first production release" and maybe they decided to wait a bit.
15:29 viki [Coke]: but if it's already set to publish... *shrug* don't wanna be a bother :)
15:29 [Coke] viki: sure. This was intended to be one that could go anywhere, but I went first to fill the scary gap on the 1st.
15:29 [Coke] https://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2016/12/01/consuming-github-webhooks
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15:29 mspo a little early?
15:30 [Coke] mspo: read the last 5 minutes.
15:30 mspo got it
15:30 mspo that url doesn't work for me, fwiw ;)
15:31 mspo so I think you have to login
15:31 mspo also, dogfood a blog
15:31 [Coke] mspo (doesn't work) excellent. :)
15:32 moritz [Coke]: "whipuptitude" might need an explanation (or a link) for the not so hardcore perl folks :-)
15:34 moritz viki: it twould be nice if you could increase the text contrast a bit on the advent blog
15:34 viki agreed... though that would require raking for a new theme ('cause we can't make just small adjustments)
15:35 moritz :(
15:35 viki I'll do it tonight, when I'm at a location with faster Internet
15:35 moritz thanks, ++viki
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15:50 timotimo jnthn: i was in the shower today, too, but i didn't come up with a topic :(  something must be broken in mine that works in yours
15:51 jnthn Maybe you have to sleep badly first also :P
15:51 timotimo i got that box ticked
15:51 AlexDaniel timotimo: how long have you been in the shower?
15:52 timotimo i find it surprising that people do their/they're but never yours/your's
15:52 timotimo AlexDaniel: hm, like 20 minutes?
15:52 mohae joined #perl6
15:54 AlexDaniel timotimo: perhaps try more? You know, it takes some time for water to wear away rock
15:56 timotimo i'm a bonehead, not a rockhead
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16:02 viki weeee
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16:03 [Coke] moritz: got a good link for whipuptitude?
16:04 parisba joined #perl6
16:04 rindolf [Coke]: there's http://perl.org.il/presentations/larry-wall-present-continuous-future-perfect/transcript.html
16:05 rindolf [Coke]: also http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Newbies/vhll-slides.pdf
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16:06 [Coke] Both of those (like most of the others) have a bunch of other stuff. I'll just put it inline. :)
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16:07 rindolf [Coke]: and http://www.perl.com/pub/2007/12/06/soto-11.html
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16:21 bazzaar o/ perl6
16:21 nicq20 \o
16:21 viki \o\
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16:23 dalek doc: 2fb08fe | coke++ | doc/Language/quoting.pod6:
16:23 dalek doc: Probably meant Pi here?
16:23 dalek doc:
16:23 dalek doc: briandfoy++
16:23 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2fb08fe3fa
16:24 viki aye
16:26 bazzaar I'm having a problem installing rakudo-star-2016.11 on linux, panda install fails with File::Find error "Required named parameter 'name' not passed"
16:27 viki :o
16:29 viki m: dd q:w { [ ] { } }
16:29 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«("[", "]", "\{}")␤»
16:29 bazzaar anyone else reported that? maybe it's me being stupid
16:29 viki bazzaar: first time I hear it, but it got released just yesterday...
16:30 viki m: dd q:w / [ ] { } /
16:30 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«("[", "]", "\{", "}")␤»
16:30 viki I don't get what that { } variant is doing...
16:31 viki m: dd q:w [ [ ] { } ]
16:31 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«("[]", "\{", "}")␤»
16:31 viki m: dd q:w [ [    ] { } ]
16:31 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«("[]", "\{", "}")␤»
16:31 viki m: dd q:w [ [  lulzwat  ] { } ]
16:31 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«("[lulzwat]", "\{", "}")␤»
16:33 nicq20 viki: Kind of odd it does not grab the '[]' chars the same way.
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16:36 dalek doc: 37849ba | (Douglas L. Schrag)++ | doc/Language/quoting.pod6:
16:36 dalek doc: Fix example that mixed up q:w and Q:w
16:36 dalek doc:
16:36 dalek doc: The original example had very strange behavior; not sure how to
16:36 dalek doc: document this:
16:36 dalek doc:
16:36 dalek doc:     Q:w { [ ] \{ \} } eqv ('[', ']', '{', '}') # False
16:36 dalek doc:
16:36 dalek doc:     > Q:w { [ ] \{ \} }.perl
16:36 dalek doc:     ("[", "]", "\\\{\\}")
16:36 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/37849bad8b
16:36 dalek doc: eed4ffb | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/quoting.pod6:
16:36 dalek doc: Merge pull request #1022 from dmaestro/quoting_qw_fix_example
16:36 dalek doc:
16:36 dalek doc: Fix example that mixed up q:w and Q:w
16:36 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/eed4ffb448
16:38 viki Feels like a bug
16:41 viki m: q:w “ 12 “ lulzwat ” 42 ”
16:41 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
16:42 viki m: dd q:w “ 12 “ lulzwat ” 42 ”
16:42 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«("12", "“lulzwat”", "42")␤»
16:42 viki m: dd q:w “ 12 “ lulz   wat ” 42 ”
16:42 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«("12", "“lulz", "wat”", "42")␤»
16:48 viki Rakudobugged: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130205
16:49 viki BTW, the One Weird Trick to report tickets without having to email. is to append `m/` to the homepage URL to get mobile interface: https://rt.perl.org/m/
16:50 viki It's pretty amusing it also lets you create a ticket in Spam queue :D
16:51 tony-o is there any need in the ecosystem for something like npmjs with private (a la company private) repositories?
16:51 * viki has no idea what nqpjs is ...
16:52 viki ... or npmjs
16:53 tony-o npmjs provides a service where you company can keep modules private to your company (or an arbitrary group) and makes them installable via npm.  so it'd be equivalent to zef being able to search a 'private' ecosystem that only your company or friends or whoever has access to
16:54 viki so like stratopan.com
16:54 tony-o looks like that, yea
16:55 viki Yeah, it's handy.
16:55 viki (that was the answer to original Q) :)
16:55 tony-o is stratopan being maintained?
16:56 tony-o half of the links don't work
16:57 dalek doc: 2e980b2 | gfldex++ | doc/ (2 files):
16:57 dalek doc: move index entry for empty list to List
16:57 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2e980b2a75
16:57 dalek doc: ced7c9f | gfldex++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6:
16:57 dalek doc: link to empty list
16:57 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ced7c9f1e6
16:57 viki no idea
16:58 viki But I remember it from years ago and I see it's still in "Beta"
16:58 tony-o the original intent of modules.zef.pm was to go in that direction.  right now it's just a landing space for searching modules and browsing the code
16:59 tony-o all of the login and management functions are turned off
16:59 viki Heh. For a site purported to be for private repos, they sure aren't shy about disclosing all of their users :) https://stratopan.com/explore/users
16:59 tony-o yea i was just looking at that, weird
17:00 [Coke] gah. didn't I just fix both emtpy and absense !?
17:00 viki hehe
17:02 dalek doc: 56fc629 | coke++ | doc/Type/List.pod6:
17:02 dalek doc: fix typos
17:02 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/56fc6293d7
17:02 [Coke] must have missed some instances, ah well.
17:04 gfldex [Coke]: it's nice to know that at least one person is reading the gibberish i prodoce :)
17:04 gfldex typing around a big got cup of tea does not improve spelling
17:11 [Coke] gfldex: reading is too strong a term :)
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17:14 [Coke] (that is, I'm just making the tests pass)
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17:26 pmurias viki: nqpjs is the the nqp-compiling-code-to-js
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17:28 viki pmurias: nah, I mistyped npm-js
17:29 pmurias tony-o: I can assume the demand for having a 'private' ecosystem will increase with more people having a lot of 'private' modules
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17:48 bazzaar regarding earlier post, on problem installing Rakudo Star 2016.11 (specifically installing panda) on linux, pls see : https://gist.github.com/bazzaar/bb3eed14f700da73f1616c88535f68ae
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17:52 timotimo bazzaar: that seems like the invocation of the written-in-perl6 prove command is wrong, or something like that
17:52 timotimo um, actually
17:52 timotimo it's apparently using last month's prove6 binary for your this month's rakudo star
17:54 bazzaar timotimo: I didn't nuke my previous perl6 R* install, prior to trying the latest R*
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18:09 tony-o pmurias: that's kind of what i figured, i know some folks are doing day to day stuff in p6 and was mostly curious if anyone was starting to develop things internally that might call for private ecos
18:10 [Coke] we have github enterprise here; I'd probably tie into that before a local private cpan.
18:18 bazzaar timotimo: thanks for your help, the install now works after I moved the previous perl6 to a backwater. :)
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18:21 tony-o [Coke]: using github enterprise would be fine for the backend - i see the way that tying in is through a list of p6 modules available in that github/org and being searchable/installable via zef or panda or whatever
18:25 AlexDaniel huggable: advent
18:25 huggable AlexDaniel, https://github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/misc/perl6advent-2016/schedule
18:26 AlexDaniel hmmmm
18:28 viki You look like you would like to write an Advent article!
18:32 AlexDaniel are there any special dates?
18:32 viki What sort of special?
18:32 AlexDaniel or anyone can write about anything on any day?
18:32 viki Anything on any day
18:32 AlexDaniel okay, hmmm
18:33 viki AlexDaniel: oh, and I murdered committable...
18:34 AlexDaniel yea it's time to put them in a loop. They are now known to be consistently unstable
18:34 AlexDaniel “Unhandled exception in code scheduled on thread 6” and stuff
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18:47 dalek mu: d233c03 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | misc/perl6advent-2016/schedule:
18:47 dalek mu: 23rd
18:47 dalek mu:
18:47 dalek mu: Conveniently before “Perl 6 Core Hacking”
18:47 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/d233c033a0
18:52 viki Haha. That's a pretty depressing title :)
18:52 viki Perfection can only be persued, never attained, eh? :)
18:53 viki pursued too
18:53 jeek Perused?
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18:58 AlexDaniel it will be a post about interesting gems from the ticket history and about bug reporting in general
18:58 viki sweet
18:58 AlexDaniel viki: so I'm hoping that it will end up being very positive :)
18:59 viki AlexDaniel: did you see I found a way to create a new ticket without an email?
18:59 AlexDaniel viki: oh, no
18:59 AlexDaniel how? Using some direct link?
18:59 viki https://rt.perl.org/m/
19:00 viki Using mobile version of the site
19:00 AlexDaniel oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh
19:00 AlexDaniel did not know it existed
19:00 viki I assuem the person who disabled the 'Create Ticket' button didn't either :)
19:01 AlexDaniel good. Very good
19:01 [Coke] I would assume that now tha tyou've posted it here, it'll get spam killed in the next 3 months.
19:01 DrForr Web dev Barbie says responsive design is *hard*!
19:02 AlexDaniel hmm does not seem to support html
19:02 viki :(
19:02 girafe joined #perl6
19:02 AlexDaniel but that's still better than nothing, I guess?
19:02 AlexDaniel viki: thank you very much!
19:05 kyclark joined #perl6
19:14 timotimo bumped JSON::Fast and even uploaded a tag
19:16 AlexDaniel timotimo: hey, any progress on MoarVM panic thingy?
19:17 cdg joined #perl6
19:18 timotimo no, sorry :(
19:19 AlexDaniel timotimo: is there any way we can create a meaningful ticket out of this problem?
19:22 timotimo i'm not sure, it's very far from golfed, sadly
19:23 AlexDaniel timotimo: is there anything in particular you are stuck on, or is it just lack of time?
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19:28 AlexDaniel I really want to make this thing move forward
19:34 timotimo sorry, it's just lack of time and energy
19:34 [Coke] Is there a ticket?
19:35 AlexDaniel [Coke]: no. Wanna try to golf it?
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19:52 [Coke] Don't NEED a golfed version for a ticket.
19:52 [Coke] need a ticket to fix it, though.
19:52 [Coke] I can try to do a golf off a ticketed version.
19:53 ugjka joined #perl6
19:55 * viki wonders what this ugjka is...
19:56 kyclark joined #perl6
19:56 viki Has been lurking in #zofbot for a few days and I've been getting weird /msg from random people asking how I am
19:57 viki Do I sound paranoid yet? :)
19:58 AlexDaniel viki: https://github.com/ugjka ?
19:58 AlexDaniel some irc-related projects
19:58 viki Yeah and no perl related projects :D
19:59 viki oh
19:59 viki https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-IRC-Client-Plugin-HNY/issues/1
19:59 viki heh
19:59 viki I *am* paranoid
19:59 * viki clears kickban from #zofbot
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20:07 jnthn AlexDaniel: Is the panic in question the "zeroed target" one?
20:08 AlexDaniel jnthn: yes
20:09 jnthn OK...got a console tab with a GDB session where I managed to catch an example of that a few steps further back from where it actually blows up. Didn't get to the bottom of it.
20:10 jnthn I've got a private project that produces it about 1 in 10 times, but it shows up quickly if it's going to show up at all.
20:10 jnthn Unfortunately the error really just means "memory got corrupted and we've caught it in a slightly better way than SEGVing"
20:11 jnthn So hard to know if there's one root cause or multiple
20:11 jnthn Will continue hunting it later this week, anyways.
20:11 labster joined #perl6
20:11 AlexDaniel hmmm I should try something
20:12 jnthn (Most likely Wednesday)
20:12 AlexDaniel unicodable6: { say ‘hello’; False }
20:13 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, Oops, something went wrong!
20:13 AlexDaniel unicodable6: { say ‘hello’; False }
20:13 diakopter lol
20:13 dogbert17 jnthn timotimo: is ther a switch to force a GC as often as possible?
20:14 unicodable6 joined #perl6
20:14 AlexDaniel unicodable6: { say ‘hello’; False }
20:14 dogbert17 AlexDaniel: and viki managed to kill commitable
20:15 dogbert17 with this: committable6: 2015.07 say 1.0000001 ** (10 ** 8)
20:15 dogbert17 hmm, did I do that ?
20:15 jnthn dogbert17: You can tweak the GC thresholds in a header file
20:15 AlexDaniel no
20:16 unicodable6 joined #perl6
20:16 AlexDaniel unicodable6: { say ‘hello’; False }
20:16 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, Oops, something went wrong!
20:16 AlexDaniel unicodable6: { say ‘hello’; False }
20:16 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, Oops, something went wrong!
20:16 dogbert17 jnthn: you know which one?
20:16 jnthn collect.h iirc
20:16 jnthn If not, allocation.h
20:16 AlexDaniel ok, I thought I had an idea of what could be causing it in particular…
20:16 dogbert17 jnthn thx
20:17 unicodable6 joined #perl6
20:17 AlexDaniel but no, I guess that's not it
20:17 dogbert17 timotimo and I have been looking at a MoarVM panic a few days ago
20:17 AlexDaniel committable6: 2015.07 say 1.0000001 ** (10 ** 8)
20:18 AlexDaniel Unhandled exception in code scheduled on thread 15 bla-bla
20:18 committable6 joined #perl6
20:18 AlexDaniel let's try again
20:18 AlexDaniel committable6: 2015.07 say 1.0000001 ** (10 ** 8)
20:18 diakopter dogbert17: lol, a collectable6 could run a rakudo with those thresholds at minimum
20:19 viki !!!
20:19 dogbert17 diakopter: collectable6, how many bots do we have :)
20:20 [Coke] why are people putting [BUG] on their subject in bug reports? (didn't I remove the hint we had that suggested it?)
20:20 viki .oO( we had a hint? )
20:21 pmurias tony-o: isn't the big part of having a private custom cpan pinning down a set of working versions?
20:21 viki I put it in when I'm reasonably sure something is an actual bug
20:22 committable6 joined #perl6
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20:22 [Coke] viki: there were docs in the rakudo repo, yes.
20:23 lolo78 joined #perl6
20:24 viki And vis-avis RT#130207, we *do* have /latest
20:24 viki All 4 icons link to latest*whatever http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/
20:25 [Coke] sure, but that's not what he's asking for.
20:25 viki It is, in a way.
20:25 [Coke] (which is, I think, a latest in the downloads directory.)
20:26 viki You can automate anything you want with the current latest links, they're just done with .htaccess rather than with a symlink
20:27 viki Like http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-latest.tar.gz is a working link
20:27 viki hm, he wants a rakudo one
20:27 * viki tries something
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20:31 viki Hm. If I add a symlink, it does show up in the folder, http://rakudo.org/downloads/rakudo/rakudo-latest.tar.gz, but when you click it, the file name that's downloaded is named just that, but I want it to be named with the version.
20:32 * lizmat vaguely remembers there was a HTTP header for that
20:32 lizmat Content-Name ?
20:32 viki Yeah, there is Content-Disposition IIRC
20:33 viki Oh, wait, yeah, disposition affects whether it's displayed inline.
20:33 jonadab Yes, that works for MIME attachments as well.
20:33 [Coke] <cfheader name="Content-Disposition" value='attachment;filename="#Replace(file_name,",","")#"'>
20:33 [Coke] (there's some coldfusion for you that works. :)
20:34 viki While, we're at it, maybe it's worth changing the look of downloads pages?
20:35 viki maybe not :D
20:36 * viki `Take`s that ticket.
20:36 viki Will think about it on the way home.
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20:42 mattp_ joined #perl6
20:44 viki a symlink so something shows up in the directory itself, but use the current mod_rewrite solution to review it to proper name.... and a script to automate updating this stuff
20:44 viki s/review/rewrite/;
20:50 viki a perl script with a fake extention that dynamically looks up what's the latest version and serves it (no need for any updating scripts)
20:51 viki ???
20:51 viki Profit!
20:51 * viki relocates
20:51 AlexDaniel huggable: test
20:51 huggable AlexDaniel, Test failed
20:51 AlexDaniel huh
20:51 AlexDaniel ok
20:51 AlexDaniel huggable: foo
20:51 huggable AlexDaniel, nothing found
20:52 AlexDaniel huggable: foo
20:52 AlexDaniel great
20:53 AlexDaniel are there any other public logs of this channel besides irclog.perlgeek.de ?
20:54 lizmat AlexDaniel: not that I know of
20:54 * lizmat starts working on the P6W
20:55 [Coke] AlexDaniel: I would probably not advertise that link.
20:55 bjz_ joined #perl6
20:55 AlexDaniel [Coke]: why not?
20:56 [Coke] let me rephrase that. I would recommend not advertising that link.
20:56 [Coke] because the rt admin team deliberately removed the one they knew about.
20:56 AlexDaniel and?
20:57 [Coke] Seems like the friendly thing for us to do would be to let them know they missed one, instead of going behind their back, as it were.
20:57 AlexDaniel they had a spam issue. If there is no spam issue with m/ link, there is no problem
20:57 timotimo dogbert17: you can also nqp::force_gc()
20:57 AlexDaniel if there is a problem, then they will probably figure it out themselves
20:58 lizmat AlexDaniel: you probably just created the spam issue, long term  :-(
20:58 [Coke] also, the lines with the inverted A's are not being logged on irclog.perlgeek.de... bug or feature?
20:58 AlexDaniel lizmat: this link does not appear in clog
20:58 dogbert17 timitimo: thx
20:58 dogbert17 s/timitimo/timotimo/
20:58 AlexDaniel and if anybody decides to share that link again, ask huggable instead of pasting it
20:59 [Coke] AlexDaniel: everyone involved in rt.perl.org is a volunteer. we should be working with them, not against them.
20:59 [Coke] I'm going to mention the link to the admins, in case they are not aware.
20:59 AlexDaniel /o\
21:00 AlexDaniel I mean, feel free to mention it, sure. But why are you pretending that there is an issue with that link when there is actually none at the moment
21:02 seatek joined #perl6
21:02 AlexDaniel one good thing we can do is ask moritz to delete the mentions of /m/ link
21:02 viki AlexDaniel, nice going, lol :)
21:03 viki I should've kept that link my private secret :)
21:03 AlexDaniel XD
21:03 mst AlexDaniel: ... *dude*
21:03 AlexDaniel what?
21:03 mst publishing a URL that will help spammers circumvent a security measure is *not* constructive
21:04 viki [Coke], ask them what sort of help is needed to restore the create ticket button. I can write code
21:04 AlexDaniel spammers can just spam the email address
21:04 AlexDaniel which is what they do constantly
21:05 mst yeah, which has a filtering system at the *email* level
21:05 AlexDaniel so what is the actual problem with the button? Where are the details?
21:05 [Coke] mst was, as I recall, working on a potential solution with the admins. doing an end run around them doesn't make us look good.
21:05 AlexDaniel don't you have to create an account to use that button?
21:06 [Coke] AlexDaniel: the original button was abused to create a spam storm on teh p5 queue, and was disabled.
21:06 mst AlexDaniel emailed them. I've completely failed to chase it up yet. but I do have a plan when I remember.
21:06 mst AlexDaniel: the problem is that the anti-spam measures are implemented in the mail submission system. which create ticket doesn't go via. hence 'circumvent'.
21:08 AlexDaniel and there are no anti-spam measures for creating an account?
21:09 timotimo dogbert17: i think the bug you recently posted about the wrong kind of free was the thing we (you? someone?) just fixed
21:09 AlexDaniel was it a manual attack or we just got unlucky?
21:10 viki Clearly someone from this channel needs to join the RT admin group :)
21:10 * geekosaur saw that but also saw it had been in holding for 6 hours before being remailed so figured it got addressed before anyone else saw it
21:10 mst I don't know exactly what happened
21:11 mst if you could remind me to follow it up (harass, even, I'm ok with this when I'm failing to get to something) instead of making it into a bigger trainwreck maybe we'd find out :)
21:11 AlexDaniel .in 2d harass mst
21:11 yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll remind you on 30 Nov 2016 21:11Z
21:11 dogbert17 timotimo: yes, I actually managed to run 'make spectest' with FSA_SIZE_DEBUG = 1 having applied the fix
21:11 * thowe waves to mst
21:11 AlexDaniel .in 4d harass mst
21:11 yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll remind you on 2 Dec 2016 21:11Z
21:12 AlexDaniel .in 6d harass mst
21:12 yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll remind you on 4 Dec 2016 21:12Z
21:12 AlexDaniel .in 8d harass mst
21:12 yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll remind you on 6 Dec 2016 21:12Z
21:12 viki :/
21:12 mst that's totally reasonable.
21:12 viki \o/
21:12 mst notice he's set the bot to spam -him- so if I get to it sooner he gets spammed and not me
21:13 viki :D
21:13 AlexDaniel that's ok
21:13 mst AlexDaniel++ # most people don't take me seriously when I say I'm ok with being harassed when I keep forgetting something like this. your response was actually less hassle for me.
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22:01 seatek weird - i've got an error message: method 'blah' must be implemented by My::Role because it is required by a role. But My::Role is the role defining that abstract requirement (and itself does no other role nor inherits)
22:01 [Coke] seatek: code?
22:04 seatek i don't think it will be of much use -- it's a role that wasn't changed that just started showing that error after i've been modifying in class in the same file (which does that role)
22:05 viki You're punning the role?
22:06 viki m: role Foo { method meows { … } }.new
22:06 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Method 'meows' must be implemented by Foo because it is required by a role␤  in any compose_method_table at gen/moar/Metamodel.nqp line 2824␤  in any apply at gen/moar/Metamodel.nqp line 2834␤  in any compose at gen/moar/Metamodel.nqp line 3006␤  i…»
22:06 seatek the role defined 4 normal attributes, and defined 4 abstract method requirements
22:06 seatek but it's saying that it must implement those method requirements now itself
22:06 viki I don't believe you
22:06 viki Prove it :)
22:06 seatek hehee :)
22:07 seatek that will not be easy - i'll try to think of a way
22:08 [Coke] ... you could show the code. :)
22:09 bjz joined #perl6
22:10 seatek https://gist.github.com/adaptiveoptics/6c58095c5dd99d725487989c282f9214
22:11 seatek Error while compiling
22:11 seatek Method 'connect' must be implemented by HG::Antenna because it is required by a role
22:11 seatek and the line is that role def line
22:13 AlexDaniel e: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/adaptiveoptics/6c58095c5dd99d725487989c282f9214/raw/daf11ee844a4e6acc3fa11f13818c2f0c71ed405/role%2520problem
22:13 AlexDaniel eval: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/adaptiveoptics/6c58095c5dd99d725487989c282f9214/raw/daf11ee844a4e6acc3fa11f13818c2f0c71ed405/role%2520problem
22:13 evalable6 AlexDaniel, Successfully fetched the code from the provided URL.
22:13 evalable6 AlexDaniel, rakudo-moar 4dffef7: OUTPUT«(exit code 1) ===SORRY!===␤Type 'HG::Antenna::Receiver' is not declared␤at /tmp/iaOC2LObeb:3␤-…»
22:13 evalable6 AlexDaniel, Full output: https://gist.github.com/a5438c84dcb1016c739754f7c5e43df6
22:13 AlexDaniel ah, right
22:14 * AlexDaniel cannot read even a single line before actually running the code
22:16 AlexDaniel eval: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/AlexDaniel/55b9ae792767585c838418d201f3aa27/raw/5f4f531777489440979ce860435976bd66084e6d/gistfile1.txt
22:16 evalable6 AlexDaniel, Successfully fetched the code from the provided URL.
22:16 evalable6 AlexDaniel, rakudo-moar 4dffef7: OUTPUT«»
22:17 AlexDaniel seatek: so what is required to reproduce it?
22:17 perlpilot seatek: smells like an accidental pun to me.
22:17 seatek what is a pun?
22:17 viki seatek: a role used as a class
22:17 seatek ah .. yeah, none of that :)
22:17 viki (which is legal and is called punning)
22:18 seatek just classes that does that role ;)
22:18 perlpilot seatek: show *all* the code :-)
22:18 seatek it's about 4,000 lines now
22:19 AlexDaniel that's better than 15 lines that don't reproduce the issue
22:19 pierre_ joined #perl6
22:20 viki seatek: maybe you wrote `is` instead of `does` at some place
22:20 kyclark joined #perl6
22:20 viki m: role Foo { method connect { ... } }; class Bar is Foo {}
22:20 perlpilot yeah, that's easy enough to do
22:20 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Method 'connect' must be implemented by Foo because it is required by a role␤at <tmp>:1␤»
22:20 seatek i'll try to determine what's causing it and will let you know. it's just been a couple method additions in classes in that file that do that role
22:20 seatek i'll double check
22:21 pecastro joined #perl6
22:21 viki m: role Foo { COMPOSE { BEGIN say callframe(0).file }; method connect { ... } }; class Bar is Foo {}
22:21 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«<tmp>␤5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Method 'connect' must be implemented by Foo because it is required by a role␤at <tmp>:1␤»
22:21 viki Maybe see if that ^ incantation gives you the file with the issue? (maybe it won't)
22:21 viki there's also .line method that gives the line number
22:22 viki (that probably gives some bogus file tho :P)
22:24 seatek yeah no mistaken is instead of does -- though one class IS a class of another class that DOES... ;) thought that might be it, commented it out, but it wasn't
22:24 seatek sometimes i really hate oop
22:24 perlpilot seatek: I bet if you show the actual code someone here could find the problem
22:27 AlexDaniel for sure
22:28 seatek figured it out. sortof
22:28 seatek it's those damn multi-line comments that i love
22:28 seatek they screw up sometimes
22:29 viki Oh, and I thought of my plan for the RT#130207 while on the bus: add a script that generates those download pages which will be just a purtier version of the current page and the top it'll list the "latest" links in more obvious way. So we get prettier pages and no need to update any links after release
22:29 AlexDaniel seatek: are you sure that there is nothing we can do in this case?
22:29 AlexDaniel seatek: e.g. perhaps some kind of a warning could be issued or something?
22:29 seatek multiline comments were somehow "hiding" an error about a stupid variable not having a my declared on it
22:29 viki seatek: get an editor that supports commenting. Select &_Ctrl+D in atom does all the commenting for me
22:29 seatek totally unrelated to the role
22:29 viki (I forget what the default shortcut is tho)
22:30 seatek no, the syntax was right -- i checked and double checked
22:30 viki Ah
22:30 seatek and teh syntax highlighting shows me too
22:30 TimToady .oO(We must...be...protocoligorically correct.)
22:33 seatek i'm going to "undo" back to the comments being there so i can try to find anything tha tmight stand out
22:35 seatek nothing wrong with the commenting. checked and checked.  all bounded by #|{ }
22:37 lizmat and another Perl6 Weekly hits the net: https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2016/11/28/2016-48-kickstarting-along/
22:37 seatek here is the comment that causes the problem. if i remove it, then i'm not told i must implement connect() in that role: https://gist.github.com/adaptiveoptics/6c58095c5dd99d725487989c282f9214
22:38 seatek crazy!
22:38 seatek but i've seen other weirdness with multiline comments
22:43 seatek you can verify this even by using just that code in the file (if you remove the class types so that it doesn't error)
22:43 seatek i just tried it
22:43 seatek it's some kind of magic combination that results in lies and death
22:44 TimToady does it still error if you change #|{} to #'{} ?
22:44 TimToady er, #`{}
22:44 TimToady if not, it's somethign to do with attaching semantic comments
22:45 TimToady maybe the semantic comment attacher is accidentally punning?
22:45 alimon1 joined #perl6
22:46 seatek with that i get "unable to parse role definition
22:46 seatek expecting any of generic role
22:47 seatek oh wait
22:47 seatek no that works! :)
22:47 Actualeyes joined #perl6
22:47 TimToady are you wanting semantic comments, or just using #|{} by accident?
22:48 seatek using #`{ } makes it work
22:48 seatek i like using #|{} because it creates docs
22:48 TimToady right, and it probably should work, but maybe it's not generic-proof yet
22:49 seatek if #`{} is safer, i'll take that over auto-generated docs any day
22:49 erblite joined #perl6
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22:53 TimToady m: #|{ a Fooish thingy }; role Fooish { method fooey {...} }
22:53 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Method 'fooey' must be implemented by Fooish because it is required by a role␤at <tmp>:1␤»
22:53 TimToady m: #`{ a Fooish thingy }; role Fooish { method fooey {...} }
22:53 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
22:53 TimToady yeah, it's role punning somehow by accident, seems
22:53 viki "o
22:53 viki :o
22:54 seatek i step on all the landmines always
22:57 seatek i love that people were thinking punning from the get-go. they were right, but it just wasn't me doing it
22:57 seatek well, not directly
22:58 seatek is punning a real thing? or is it like golfing? well, i guess golfing is a real thing now... ?
22:58 viki lizmat++ good weekly
22:59 viki Yes, it's a real thing.
22:59 trnh joined #perl6
22:59 trnh joined #perl6
22:59 lizmat m: role A {}; dd A.new   # punning
22:59 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«A.new␤»
23:00 TimToady m: role Fooish { method fooey {...} }.WHY.say
23:00 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: OUTPUT«Method 'fooey' must be implemented by Fooish because it is required by a role␤  in any compose_method_table at gen/moar/Metamodel.nqp line 2824␤  in any apply at gen/moar/Metamodel.nqp line 2834␤  in any compose at gen/moar/Metamodel.nqp line 3006␤…»
23:00 viki ohhh
23:00 seatek k :)
23:00 viki ohhhh
23:00 TimToady m: role Fooish #={a Fooish thingy}␤  { method fooey {...} }
23:01 camelia rakudo-moar 054aca: ( no output )
23:01 viki I even have a good guess of what's 'causing it
23:01 viki I merged a commit that made the pod parser care about .WHY
23:01 viki recently
23:01 viki bisect: role Fooish { method fooey {...} }.WHY.say
23:01 bisectable6 viki, Bisecting by output (old=2015.12 new=5163e8a) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
23:01 bisectable6 viki, bisect log: https://gist.github.com/88d4ed08a3a0085a6c70c096a3ab46de
23:01 bisectable6 viki, (2016-03-02) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fdd37a9e0bef16eb3e4bb24ddd59247e379b5038
23:01 viki oh, I guess it ain't it :)
23:02 TimToady bisect: #|{ a Fooish thingy }; role Fooish { method fooey {...} }
23:02 bisectable6 TimToady, On both starting points (old=2015.12 new=5163e8a) the exit code is 1 and the output is identical as well
23:02 bisectable6 TimToady, Output on both points: ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/ZxO1QFG55c␤Method 'fooey' must be implemented by Fooish because it is required by a role␤at /tmp/ZxO1QFG55c:1
23:05 trnh joined #perl6
23:05 trnh joined #perl6
23:12 viki seatek: don't forget to report that bug, please :)
23:13 lolo78 joined #perl6
23:14 seatek that's via email to something, yeah? i've never created a bug here. the whole thought of it make me feel guilty.
23:14 viki yeah, just email to rakudobug@perl.org don't worry about feeling guilty... Tell 'em I sent you ;)
23:14 viki And you can include the link to the chat: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-11-28#i_13644451
23:15 seatek k
23:19 lolo78_ joined #perl6
23:20 seatek viki: done
23:20 viki seatek++ thanks a lot
23:20 TimToady seatek++
23:32 jeek (SETEC Astronomy)++
23:37 labster joined #perl6
23:57 mspo does moar/rakudo compile everything to NQP as a first step?
23:58 TimToady no, there is no intermediate language, just trees
23:59 seatek what's really surprised me as i've been going along is just how handy multi methods can be. they've saved me a lot of time, not having to re-write stuff, and helps keep the code tidy. never thought i'd have a use for them.

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