Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-01-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 neewbie joined #perl6
00:00 neewbie hi
00:00 raschip o/
00:01 raschip huggable: hug neewbie
00:01 * huggable hugs neewbie
00:02 neewbie i have a question, if you guys could helpme. whats the best way to read a line of integers in a file to treat as a list of numbers instead of a stirng?
00:02 neewbie \o
00:02 neewbie its possible to use int to list operators in a list of strings of ints?
00:03 timotimo just grab the line, split it with .words, then .map(*.Int)
00:03 timotimo it'll explode if it finds non-int characters, though
00:03 timotimo you may have to make sure the newline at the end gets properly removed
00:03 neewbie thanks
00:04 neewbie it worked
00:04 neewbie tx
00:04 neewbie and
00:05 neewbie i noticed that when i do a + 1 in a range, it adds up to every element in the range, but in the list adds to the lenght. theres is a shortcut to do a operation to every value in the list other than a .map ?
00:06 ugexe [+]
00:06 neewbie but [+] adds the elements in the list, the +1 in the range adds 1 to every elemetn in the list
00:07 timotimo there's >>+>> 1 for example
00:07 timotimo if you want to have it return a new list with values
00:07 timotimo otherwise you can >>++ or ++<< to modify the list in-place
00:07 neewbie can you show an example pls?
00:07 SmokeMachine is there a value mutable version of pair?
00:08 raschip SmokeMachine: Isn't that a scalar?
00:08 TimToady note hypers are eager, so use X+ 1 if you want it to be a lazy list
00:09 timotimo m: my @things = <3 1 4 1 5 9>; say @things >>+>> 1; say @things; @things>>++; say @things
00:09 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«[4 2 5 2 6 10]␤[3 1 4 1 5 9]␤[4 2 5 2 6 10]␤»
00:09 TimToady besides, X+ is shorter than >>+>>  :)
00:09 neewbie thank you
00:09 SmokeMachine notviki: I was trying this:
00:09 timotimo aye, it is
00:09 SmokeMachine m: my @a; for <c c c a a a b c c> -> $c {if !@a or $c ne @a[*-1].key {@a.push: $c =>1} else {@a[*-1].value += 1}}; say @a
00:09 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to an immutable value␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
00:09 neewbie X+ and >>+>> are the same thing?
00:09 timotimo no
00:09 timotimo the former is lazy, the latter is eager
00:09 SmokeMachine m: my $a = a => 1; say $a; $a.value++; say $a # raschip
00:09 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«a => 1␤Cannot resolve caller postfix:<++>(Int); the following candidates␤match the type but require mutable arguments:␤    (Mu:D $a is rw)␤    (Int:D $a is rw)␤␤The following do not match for other reasons:␤    (Bool:D $a is rw)␤    (Bool:U…»
00:09 imcsk8 joined #perl6
00:10 timotimo m: my @a = a => my $ = 1; say $a; $a.value++; say $a
00:10 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$a' is not declared. Did you mean '@a'?␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my @a = a => my $ = 1; say 7⏏5$a; $a.value++; say $a␤»
00:10 SmokeMachine m: my @a; for <c c c a a a b c c> -> $c {if !@a or $c ne @a[*-1].key {@a.push: $c =>1} else {@a[*-1].value++}}; say @a
00:10 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«Cannot resolve caller postfix:<++>(Int); the following candidates␤match the type but require mutable arguments:␤    (Mu:D $a is rw)␤    (Int:D $a is rw)␤␤The following do not match for other reasons:␤    (Bool:D $a is rw)␤    (Bool:U $a is rw…»
00:10 timotimo m: my $a = a => my $ = 1; say $a; $a.value++; say $a
00:10 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«a => 1␤a => 2␤»
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00:10 timotimo SmokeMachine: ^
00:10 Coleoid joined #perl6
00:10 SmokeMachine great! thanks timotimo !
00:11 neewbie can i turn off the messages when people enter and quit the chat? i'm getting lost
00:11 SmokeMachine m: my @a; for <c c c a a a b c c> -> $c {if !@a or $c ne @a[*-1].key {@a.push: $c => my $ = 1} else {@a[*-1].value++}}; say @a # notviki
00:11 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«[c => 3 a => 3 b => 1 c => 2]␤»
00:11 timotimo that depends entirely on your irc client, neewbie
00:11 baest joined #perl6
00:11 neewbie ok, will search later.
00:12 timotimo for example, weechat will hide joins and quits that it thinks aren't relevant, and only shows joins/quits it thinks you care about
00:12 TimToady neewbie: they're pretty easy to ignore if your client makes them a different color
00:12 amalia__ joined #perl6
00:12 neewbie but eager means that evaluates all the list and then adds + 1 to every item? and lazy does without know the whole list?
00:13 timotimo it'll add as +1 to as many items in the list as some consumer asks for, ignoring the rest until they are needed - or forever
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00:14 neewbie so X+ is faster than >>+>> ?
00:14 TimToady m: say ((0...*) Z+ 1)[^30]
00:14 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«(1 Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil)␤»
00:14 timotimo no, it's a trade-off that depends on your situation
00:14 ZoffixZ neewbie: click on the three-bar icon in top left column and choose " Hide JOINS/PARTS/QUITS:"
00:14 TimToady m: say ((0...*) X+ 1)[^30]
00:14 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30)␤»
00:15 TimToady neewbie: not necessarily
00:15 TimToady often eager evaluation can be faster, depending on what is producing the list
00:15 smash joined #perl6
00:15 notviki SmokeMachine: well, it's just a long and dense version :) I was hoping for some nice, short, way
00:15 pyrimidine joined #perl6
00:15 neewbie thanks zoffixz, it worked :D
00:15 timotimo at some point we'll want to use vectorized instructions on your CPU, so eager evaluation in this case might end up many many times faster
00:15 SmokeMachine notviki: :(
00:16 timotimo but if you have an infinite list and only actually want the first three values, the eager case will finish when the universe has exploded, the other one will only take a milisecond
00:16 timotimo so that's many, many, many, many cases faster
00:16 timotimo times*
00:16 TimToady which is why we have two different ways to do it
00:17 neewbie so if i have a short list, which i know the scope, the eager is a better choice
00:17 timotimo yeah, it's difficult to sell "you have to make the universe explode" to our customers as part of their daily operations
00:17 chee joined #perl6
00:17 TimToady neewbie: again, it depends on what you're optimizing for.  X+ can be easier to read than »+»
00:17 timotimo you may think there's infinite universes in the multiverse, but if everybody starts exploding many millions of universes a day, who knows what will happen!
00:17 TimToady and if programmer time is what you're optimizing for, use the more readable
00:18 neewbie how the X+ operator is called? i can't find in the docs search box
00:18 timotimo it's a cartesian product, we call it the cross metaop
00:18 timotimo in this case it's the cross metaop applied to the addition operator
00:18 TimToady m: say <a b> X~ 1,2
00:18 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«(a1 a2 b1 b2)␤»
00:19 neewbie the >>+>> is hyper operator, right? i was reading this slide http://tpm2016.zoffix.com/ and it says it has a bug. do you guys know if it was fixed?
00:19 timotimo no, the .hyper and .race methods have a bug
00:19 timotimo hyperoperators on their own are fine
00:19 neewbie hmm, so confusing. x-x
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00:21 raschip neewbie: It's like math, it takes a while to take it all in.
00:21 neewbie i see
00:21 integral joined #perl6
00:21 integral joined #perl6
00:22 neewbie and i'm really bad at math.
00:22 neewbie i found the operators page, going to read before asking more questions.
00:22 raschip So it's not like math.
00:22 neewbie thank you very much
00:22 raschip It's like learning a new language.
00:25 smash joined #perl6
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00:33 TimToady mais oui!
00:35 raschip Claro
00:35 pecastro joined #perl6
00:40 TimToady Power tools!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZDWEd7kjS4
00:44 notviki 0.o
00:45 sean` joined #perl6
00:53 hattakhomma Sorry to bug on a random questions, but I wanted to try to use perl for some web development work.  From what I understand how you include functions from another php file, in perl the functions are included a perl modules?
00:54 hattakhomma oops sorry wrong channel
00:59 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
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01:27 notviki hah
01:27 notviki hattakhomma: check out http://mojolicious.com  it's a nice Perl 5 web framework
01:28 notviki oh wait
01:28 notviki hattakhomma: sorry, it's http://mojolicious.org/
01:28 notviki It on CPAN: https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojolicious
01:35 zacts joined #perl6
01:36 Geth doc: f7ff9b7496 | (Samantha McVey)++ | htmlify.p6
01:36 Geth doc: Fix --no-proc-async option for htmlify.p6 on MacOS
01:36 Geth doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f7ff9b7496
01:43 [Coke] http://news.perlfoundation.org/2017/01/tpf-grant-novemberdecember-rou.html regarding the TPF grant request for LP6
01:50 raschip "1.3. Grant proposals should mention how the grant results will be made available to the public. The grant results must be must be accessible free of charge." Stallman wouldn't be pleased by this. Being available gratis isn't a requirement for something to be free.
01:54 notviki Well, I'm glad that is over.
01:55 samcv [Coke], can you test the doc --no-proc-async for me?
02:08 [Coke] samcv: already running it, thanks. :)
02:08 samcv cool
02:09 SmokeMachine I think I already did it, but is there a method that is called on role composition? (I think its the method compose, is it?)
02:09 ggj_ joined #perl6
02:10 notviki SmokeMachine: I heard of the COMPOSE phaser...
02:10 SmokeMachine thanks!
02:10 notviki m: 1 but role { COMPOSE { say "weeeeee" } }
02:10 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: ( no output )
02:11 notviki m: role Foo { COMPOSE { say "weeeeee" } }; class :: does Foo {};
02:11 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: ( no output )
02:11 notviki m: role Foo { COMPOSE { say "weeeeee" } }; class :: does Foo {}.new
02:11 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: ( no output )
02:11 * notviki shrugs
02:11 pyrimidine joined #perl6
02:11 SmokeMachine :(
02:14 SmokeMachine notviki: looks you are right: https://docs.perl6.org/language/phasers#Phasers
02:15 notviki SmokeMachine: seems NYI: https://docs.perl6.org/language/phasers#CONTROL
02:15 notviki (also that part has busted rendering)
02:18 SmokeMachine notviki: I think Im getting crazy... I could swear that I did use it...
02:20 notviki hmmm.... Trying to use the RT API endpoint perl6.fail uses through the browser gives me "Temporarily Unavailable" and that's been for like 4 days now :/
02:21 Ben_Goldberg joined #perl6
02:22 notviki ooohhh... there's a special --rebuild option you're supposed to pass in when building the db anew
02:22 notviki oops :}
02:24 samcv how is the --help generated, like how can you specify a description of what the program does?
02:25 notviki samcv: it's sub USAGE or something similar
02:25 samcv kk
02:25 notviki samcv: oh: https://docs.perl6.org/language/functions#sub_USAGE
02:25 notviki You're just print stuff from within it
02:27 notviki buggable: tags
02:27 buggable notviki, Total: 1468; BUG: 988; UNTAGGED: 313; LTA: 141; NYI: 96; RFC: 61; CONC: 53; JVM: 53; REGEX: 46; SEGV: 31; PERF: 28; UNI: 27; NATIVECALL: 22; REGRESSION: 21; @LARRY: 20; POD: 20; TODO: 18; IO: 16; TESTNEEDED: 15; PRECOMP: 13; BUILD: 11; OO: 11; TESTCOMMITTED: 10; STAR: 8; BOOTSTRAP: 6; OPTIMIZER: 6; GLR: 5; MATH: 4; OSX: 4; REPL: 3; WEIRD: 3; RT: 2; SPESH: 2; WINDOWS: 2; CONFIGURE
02:27 notviki NeuralAnomaly: status
02:27 NeuralAnomaly notviki, [✘] Next release will be in 1 week and 3 days. Since last release, there are 80 new still-open tickets (0 unreviewed and 0 blockers) and 250 unreviewed commits. See http://perl6.fail/release/stats for details
02:28 notviki samcv: fixed now RE: <samcv> .tell notviki seems perl6.fail has… failed. It is not showing any ticket
02:28 user_ joined #perl6
02:28 samcv perl6.fail.fail
02:28 samcv nice :-)
02:29 SmokeMachine how can I .^add_method a multi method?
02:33 notviki m: class Foo {}; Foo.^add_method: "meows", multi method { say "hi" }; Foo.^add_method: "meows", multi method ($) { say "meows" }; Foo.meows: 42
02:33 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤An anonymous method may not take a multi declarator␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3thod: "meows", multi method { say "hi" }7⏏5; Foo.^add_method: "meows", multi method␤»
02:33 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
02:33 notviki really
02:34 notviki SmokeMachine: apparently you can use .add_dispatchee for an already existing routine.
02:35 notviki SmokeMachine: https://www.reddit.com/r/perl6/comments/5li94u/comparing_custom_classes_with_eqv/ bottom of OP'
02:35 notviki s post
02:35 * notviki drops to bed
02:35 SmokeMachine notviki: great! thanks!
02:35 SmokeMachine notviki: yes! I remember that! I didn't remember the name of the method
02:37 SmokeMachine I thinks thats not for methods... :(
02:37 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
02:39 SmokeMachine Im wrong
02:40 SmokeMachine methods generated by $.attr aren't multi?
02:42 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
02:48 ilbot3 joined #perl6
02:48 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
02:54 BenGoldberg m: for ^7 -> $a, $b { print $a, $b }
02:54 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«012345Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
02:55 BenGoldberg m: for ^7 -> $a, $b { print $b.DEFINITE; print $a, $b }
02:55 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«True01True23True45Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
02:55 BenGoldberg m: for ^7 -> $a, $b { print 1 }
02:55 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«111Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
02:56 BenGoldberg Hmm...
02:57 AlexDaniel so?
02:57 AlexDaniel m: for ^7 -> $a, $b? { say “$a {$b // ‘none’}”; }
02:57 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«0 1␤2 3␤4 5␤6 none␤»
02:57 BenGoldberg AlexDaniel++
02:58 BenGoldberg Thanks :)
02:58 BenGoldberg m: for ^7 -> $a, $b? { print $b.DEFINITE }
02:58 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«TrueTrueTrueFalse»
02:58 BenGoldberg m: for (^7.slip, Any) -> $a, $b? { print $b.DEFINITE }
02:58 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Precedence of ^ is looser than method call; please parenthesize␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3for (^77⏏5.slip, Any) -> $a, $b? { print $b.DEFINI␤    Precedence of ^ is looser than method call; please parenthesize␤ …»
02:59 BenGoldberg m: for ((^7).slip, Any.slip) -> $a, $b? { print $b.DEFINITE }
02:59 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«No such method 'slip' for invocant of type 'Range'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
02:59 AlexDaniel I only wonder why is it 42 here:
02:59 AlexDaniel m: for ^7 -> $a, $b? --> 42 { say “$a {$b // ‘none’}”; }
02:59 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«0 42␤2 42␤4 42␤6 42␤»
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02:59 BenGoldberg m: for ((^7).Slip, Any.Slip) -> $a, $b? { print $b.DEFINITE }
02:59 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«TrueTrueTrueFalse»
03:00 BenGoldberg m: for ((^7).Slip, Any.Slip) -> $a, $b? { print $a }
03:00 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«0246»
03:00 BenGoldberg m: for ((^7).Slip, Any.Slip) -> $a, $b? { print $b }
03:00 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«135Use of uninitialized value $b of type Any in string context.␤Methods .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can be used to stringify it to something meaningful.␤  in block  at <tmp> line 1␤»
03:00 BenGoldberg m: for ((^7).Slip, Any.Slip) -> $a, $b? { say $b }
03:00 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«1␤3␤5␤(Any)␤»
03:00 AlexDaniel драт ахе ыоу тхыинг то во?
03:00 AlexDaniel what are you trying to do?
03:00 BenGoldberg m: for ((^7).Slip, Any.Slip) -> $a, $b? { say $b.DEFINITE }
03:00 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«True␤True␤True␤False␤»
03:03 BenGoldberg I want to write some utility functions; they're going to iterate over a user supplied list, which might or might not have an even number of elements.  If there're an odd number of elements in the list, I want to deal with the last element specially.
03:05 tbrowder ref Inline::Perl5, i need some help, please
03:07 tbrowder i have an object that .WHAT calls a (Perl5Array), how can i make that ap6 array?
03:07 tbrowder s/ap6/a p6/
03:08 AlexDaniel m: for (^7).rotor(2) -> ($a, $b) { say “$a → $b”; }
03:08 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«0 → 1␤2 → 3␤4 → 5␤»
03:10 AlexDaniel m: for (^7).rotor(2, :partial) -> ($a, $b?) { say “$a → {$b // ‘none’}”; } # meh, not any better
03:10 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«0 → 1␤2 → 3␤4 → 5␤6 → none␤»
03:15 AlexDaniel does anybody know what's the deal with this:
03:15 AlexDaniel m: for ^4 -> $a --> 42 { say “$a” }
03:15 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤»
03:15 AlexDaniel m: for ^4 -> $a --> 42 { say “{$a}” }
03:15 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«42␤42␤42␤42␤»
03:16 AlexDaniel looks like a bug, right?
03:17 pyrimidine joined #perl6
03:21 samcv cool. caught up with my atom-language-perl6 tickets now.
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03:30 tharkun Where can I get the recommended 101 perldoc for perl6
03:32 BenGoldberg p6doc?
03:34 AlexDaniel tharkun: not sure what you mean exactly, but I'd perhaps start with https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/ and http://perl6intro.com and then https://docs.perl6.org/language.html
03:34 AlexDaniel tharkun: does that answer your question or were you looking for something else?
03:35 tharkun I'll look into those thanks
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04:23 faraco howdy
04:27 AlexDaniel o/
04:29 faraco :D
04:38 [Coke] (docs) looks like we were very careful about .html file names (maybe overly so) but there are image names with ::'s in them.
04:54 samcv [Coke], regarding highlights failing on os x
04:55 samcv hmm maybe we should build on os x for the bot too.
04:55 faraco in META6.json, what is resources refers to?
04:55 samcv not sure why it would hang but hmm
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04:56 timotimo faraco: extra files that will get installed along with your module that you can access via a special variable
04:57 [Coke] samcv: perhaps related to why --parallel is horked.
04:57 samcv well uhm. having --no-proc-async by default will slow it down a ton
04:57 faraco timotimo: thanks. I gonna blog it as my diary.
04:57 samcv basically the diff between pygmentize vs inline::python was
04:58 Geth doc: 47761aa955 | (Samantha McVey)++ | htmlify.p6
04:58 Geth doc: Only start the highlights worker thread when we need to
04:58 Geth doc:
04:58 Geth doc: Also make sure the user has run `make init-highlights` by checking if
04:58 Geth doc: the coffee executable is in the right location.
04:58 Geth doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/47761aa955
04:58 Geth doc: 9bea4a4ac0 | (Samantha McVey)++ | .travis.yml
04:58 Geth doc: Update .travis.yml to test os MacOS as well as Linux
04:58 Geth doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9bea4a4ac0
04:58 samcv [Coke], did i fix --no-proc-async on os x though?
04:58 [Coke] yes, I can at least run htmlify.pl now by using that arg.
04:59 samcv ok good
04:59 [Coke] We don't have to make it the default; can change that part of the ticket into "fix this on OS X" if I didn't make a ticket for that.
04:59 samcv k
05:05 samcv [Coke], does it hang at the very end of highlighting?
05:10 [Coke] hope not!
05:11 [Coke] Still getting "Highlights is reading...." streaming across the screen.
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05:24 travis-ci Doc build failed. Samantha McVey 'Update .travis.yml to test os MacOS as well as Linux'
05:24 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/190847083 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/f7ff9b7496a5...9bea4a4ac0e9
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05:27 samcv oh [Coke] i mean _without_ --no-proc-async
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05:32 [Coke] samcv: no, it hangs immediately.
05:32 Geth doc: 0389b3aac7 | (Samantha McVey)++ | .travis.yml
05:32 Geth doc: Don't hardcode the home directory so Travis works for MacOS
05:32 Geth doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0389b3aac7
05:32 samcv oh ok
05:32 [Coke] first time a highlight is done.
05:32 [Coke] (you're right, it's insanely slow without the async)
05:32 [Coke] still building here...
05:33 samcv [Coke], what node do you have?
05:33 [Coke] ?
05:33 samcv node --version
05:33 [Coke] oh, nodejs. one se
05:33 [Coke] v7.4.0
05:33 samcv ok that's what I have too
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05:55 [Coke] ok, giving up on seeing if my change worked. bedtime instea.d
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05:57 travis-ci Doc build errored. Samantha McVey 'Don't hardcode the home directory so Travis works for MacOS'
05:57 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/190851897 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/9bea4a4ac0e9...0389b3aac74f
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05:57 samcv ok it stalls before Starting highlights worker thread
05:57 samcv is displayed
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06:35 atweiden-air m: class ABC { class DEF {*} }; my ABC::DEF $abc-def .= new; say so $abc-def ~~ ABC;
06:35 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«False␤»
06:36 atweiden-air is it possible to check that ABC::DEF is part of class ABC?
06:36 atweiden-air ABC::*
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06:54 AlexDaniel atweiden-air: I'm not sure I understand. $abc-def.^name already gives you ABC::DEF
06:55 moritz atweiden-air: define "part of"
06:55 moritz atweiden-air: inside the namespace != a subtype of
06:56 atweiden-air yes to inside the namespace of
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06:57 sortiz \o #perl6
06:57 samcv o/
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07:14 dalek DBIish: cbdf5b7 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | / (7 files):
07:14 dalek DBIish: Pg: TypeConverter post-merge cleanup
07:14 dalek DBIish:
07:14 dalek DBIish: kaare++ the work and original itch
07:14 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/cbdf5b7bf7
07:17 RabidGravy salortiz++ # I did actually fear that was going to get bike-shedded to death
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07:20 faraco Mu is the most undefined value. ? What? Going to wiki, it says it means 'nothing'. Is the value == undefined in Perl 5 or NULL in C
07:21 faraco m: say !Int.defined;
07:21 camelia rakudo-moar 9a11ea: OUTPUT«True␤»
07:21 moritz faraco: on a less philosophical level, Mu is is the root of the type hierarchy
07:21 moritz https://docs.perl6.org/images/type-graph-Mu.svg
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07:22 faraco oh, now I understand what it means 'the most undefined'.
07:23 faraco thanks moritz
07:23 RabidGravy if you want to check something is defined, you want to check whether it is defined whatever type it is
07:23 sortiz RabidGravy, In past months I had to move house and buried in $work, but I'm back
07:23 RabidGravy :)
07:24 geekosaur a type object is the least defined value of a type. Mu is the least defined type.
07:24 RabidGravy anyway off to the code mines
07:24 samcv so shortly I am going to make roast use LINE FEED and FORM FEED instead of LINE FEED (LF) and FORM FEED (FF) for the \c[ ] entries
07:24 faraco is it some sort of 'placeholder' for Mu?
07:24 samcv as soon as I add a fix for MoarVM which allows those unicode alias names to be used. and for now we will still allow LINE FEED (LF) and FORM FEED (FF)
07:25 samcv but they won't be in roast anymore
07:25 faraco I like the documentation. Easy on the eyes to read.
07:25 geekosaur um? what is "it" here?
07:26 samcv moritz, geekosaur thoughts?
07:26 faraco oops, my grammar is messed up. I meant, is Mu some sort of 'placeholder'?
07:26 samcv i am guessing maybe there will be a way we can depreciate the unicode 1 names?
07:26 faraco for Any and Junction?
07:26 geekosaur insofar as it is the most basic type, of which all other types are composed
07:26 samcv maybe in moarvm or something. some message to the user that it's depreciated
07:26 samcv but still compiles and functions
07:28 geekosaur Mu is what you use if you want to allow anything including junctions. This has an operational effect: if a sub or method does not specifically announce that it handles Junctions (by using the type Mu or Junction), perl 6 will autothread a junction given to it
07:28 samcv and i can manually add in those unicode 1 names during the depreciation period, and .uniname will show <control-0020> for \n instead of LINE FEED (LF), but LINE FEED (LF) will still work for \c
07:30 geekosaur Most of the time, if you want an all-inclusive type you want to use Any so that junctions get autothreaded. You would only use Mu if you need (or need to know about) the junction itself for some reason
07:31 faraco geekosaur: I think I need to try the examples first to understand these types in depth.
07:31 geekosaur (autothread = perl 6 will run the sub/method, at least notionally concurrently, for all values in the Junction, combining the result into a Junction)
07:34 samcv j: say "\c[FORM FEED]".ord.base(16)
07:34 camelia rakudo-jvm fb4f16: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unrecognized character name FORM FEED␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "\c[FORM FEED7⏏5]".ord.base(16)␤»
07:35 faraco geekosaur: thanks. Taking that as a note.
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09:52 faraco A question - https://docs.perl6.org/language/variables#The_%5E_Twigil
09:52 faraco in $/ part
09:52 faraco why the XML.Grammar.parse("<p>some text</p>); doesn't work?
09:53 faraco installed XML, and use XML::Grammar; return (Any)
09:53 faraco I got this error - No such method 'Grammar' for invocant of type 'XML'
09:53 faraco in block <unit> at t.p6 line 2
09:53 DrForr Because you want XML::Grammar, I think?
09:54 DrForr I.E. XML::Grammar.parse(...)
09:54 faraco so, is the example got mistake there? it use XML.Grammar.parse(...) instead of XML::Grammar.parse(...)
09:55 faraco okay, I think it's typo
09:55 DrForr Yeah, it's a typo. Maybe submit a PR?
09:55 faraco I think I'll direct commit since it's a small change?
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09:56 DrForr Feel free.
09:56 faraco alright. :D
09:56 faraco thanks for helping
09:56 DrForr No worries.
10:00 Geth doc: 661567b686 | faraco++ | doc/Language/variables.pod6
10:00 Geth doc: fixed typo
10:00 Geth doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/661567b686
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10:29 MARTIMM o/
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10:29 travis-ci Doc build errored. faraco 'fixed typo'
10:29 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/190900024 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/0389b3aac74f...661567b68641
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10:32 MARTIMM I was wondering why 'our' cannot have a type. What is the phylosophy
10:33 MARTIMM Same for *@xyz in argument lists
10:33 jnthn Different reasons
10:33 faraco isn't our for package scope?
10:34 jnthn our is just a lexical alias to a package symbol, and package symbol tables are just hashes.
10:34 MARTIMM where can I look this up?
10:34 jnthn m: { our $a = 42 }; { say our $a }
10:34 camelia rakudo-moar 0f149d: OUTPUT«42␤»
10:34 MARTIMM Ah, I see, there no space in the tables to add type
10:34 jnthn Imagine if the types were different on those two, what would be do?
10:35 jnthn Well, also the declaration is of the alias, not of the symbol, which is just something in a hash
10:35 samcv m: our $a; my int $b = 10; $a := b; say $a.WHAT
10:35 camelia rakudo-moar 0f149d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    b used at line 1␤␤»
10:35 samcv m: our $a; my int $b = 10; $a := $b; say $a.WHAT
10:35 camelia rakudo-moar 0f149d: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
10:36 jnthn On *@xyz it's because the incoming values might be from a lazy list, but generally with types we expect them to do their checking "immediately"
10:37 faraco It is weird, why doc compiling on OSX failed. The error is all about The command "$CXX --version" exited with 127.
10:37 faraco any opinion?
10:38 faraco oh: /Users/travis/build.sh: line 57: g++-4.8: command not found
10:38 MARTIMM jnthn: I'll ponder a bit over it, thanks for now
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10:50 MARTIMM another question: will submethod DESTROY in a class always be called when an object is teared down. E.g. at program exit. I need something to do like saving data at the end without having to call a save operation explicitly
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10:56 jnthn MARTIMM: No. If you want reliable called-at-exit things, use END
10:58 MARTIMM jnthn: thanks, about the our example you showed: { our $a = 42 }; { say our $a }, does it show 'define/save in one scope and pulling it out in the other?'
10:59 jnthn Pretty much, yes
11:00 jnthn m: GLOBAL::<$a> = 42; { say our $a }
11:00 camelia rakudo-moar 0f149d: OUTPUT«42␤»
11:00 jnthn Though as shown here, it's just a hash, so there's not really a formal point of definition of the entry there.
11:01 MARTIMM I understand now
11:02 faraco A question, what is actually 'dynamic variable'? $*MYDYVAR, is it equivalent to Global variable?
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11:03 faraco m: say $*ENV
11:03 camelia rakudo-moar 0f149d: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable $*ENV not found␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
11:03 MARTIMM say %*ENV
11:03 MARTIMM m:say %*ENV
11:03 faraco m: %*ENV
11:03 camelia rakudo-moar 0f149d: ( no output )
11:03 faraco yeah, hash
11:03 faraco forgot
11:04 faraco so, what it's a global variable? When it says dynamic, I'm thing about 'mutable'.
11:04 faraco thinking*
11:04 pmurias faraco: they are dynamically scoped
11:05 faraco and how dynamically scoped variable works? Can it be accessed from other scopes, class, methods, submethods etc?
11:05 pmurias m: sub foo {say $*FOO}; my $*FOO = 123; {my $*FOO = 456; foo()}; say $*FOO;
11:05 camelia rakudo-moar 0f149d: OUTPUT«456␤123␤»
11:06 pmurias faraco: they can be accessed from the other things you call
11:07 pmurias faraco: so they sort of work like a global, only when you declare a dynamic variable with a my it then gets reset to the previous value
11:07 pmurias faraco: do you know perl 5?
11:07 faraco I don't.
11:11 faraco well, just a little bit. but that's it. nothing more deeper than dabbling the surface.
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11:15 pmurias faraco: look up https://docs.perl6.org/language/variables#The_*_Twigil
11:15 faraco erm, inside the block, my $*FOO resets variable and assigned with 456; and foo return it as lexical scope. and after the block, it use literally the foo routine again, calling the actual dynamic variable.
11:16 faraco I don't if that what it's supposed to do, or I'm wrong here.
11:16 faraco know*
11:17 pmurias faraco: quoting the docs, a dynamic variable is looked up in the callers scope
11:18 Geth doc: 9d74487e84 | (Samantha McVey)++ | .travis.yml
11:18 Geth doc: Allow failures on Travis on MacOS (OS X)
11:18 Geth doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9d74487e84
11:18 Geth doc: b0221a5174 | (Samantha McVey)++ | htmlify.p6
11:18 Geth doc: Try and end the highlights process after we are done with it
11:18 Geth doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b0221a5174
11:19 faraco samcv: is it because g++ v4.8 not exist in OSX?
11:19 samcv no
11:19 samcv some concurrency problem
11:19 faraco oh
11:19 samcv still works on --no-proc-async though
11:19 samcv well since the fix i made today
11:22 faraco pmurias: ah, I think I'm getting the idea now.
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11:22 travis-ci Doc build passed. faraco 'Update .travis.yml'
11:22 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/faraco/doc/builds/190912084 https://github.com/faraco/doc/compare/661567b68641...40f59be5e035
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11:23 faraco what, did my commit *rebuilt* again
11:23 evalable6 faraco, Full output: https://gist.github.com/820e015de0b4be1cabeac96a9ab8bbb3
11:23 evalable6 faraco, rakudo-moar 0f149de: OUTPUT«(exit code 1) ===SORRY!===␤Type 'commit' is not declared␤at /tmp/vJYkMs9zbP:…»
11:23 bisectable6 faraco, On both starting points (old=2015.12 new=0f149de) the exit code is 1 and the output is identical as well
11:23 committable6 faraco, ¦«did»: Cannot find this revision (did you mean “all”?)
11:23 bisectable6 faraco, Output on both points: ===SORRY!===␤Type 'commit' is not declared␤at /tmp/OFMFrihaDB:1␤------> did my commit⏏ *rebuilt* again␤Malformed my␤at /tmp/OFMFrihaDB:1␤------> did my⏏ commit *rebuilt* again␤
11:24 faraco okay, I need to learn this IRC bot commands. Help?
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11:26 raschipi what what?
11:26 raschipi what, what?
11:26 evalable6 raschipi, Full output: https://gist.github.com/9ec3a6c024b0862234b4c911abcf4d4e
11:26 evalable6 raschipi, rakudo-moar 0f149de: OUTPUT«(exit code 1) ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/FBoDzSfAqs␤Bogus postf…»
11:26 bisectable6 raschipi, On both starting points (old=2015.12 new=0f149de) the exit code is 1 and the output is identical as well
11:26 bisectable6 raschipi, https://gist.github.com/dbb196f7a63dc9abfd1d206f62e214cb
11:27 raschipi The bots understand a message sdtarting whith "what," as a command. I thought they had fixed the whatevables to only do this to a few people that want it.
11:28 cschwenz this has all the makings of a "Who's on first." routine…
11:29 faraco whoa, https://gist.github.com/Whateverable. A secret bot gist acc.
11:30 raschipi Why do you think it's secret?
11:31 faraco it's secret to me, because I never told about it. Actually, I'm just saying. doesn't mean it literally.
11:31 raschipi ok
11:32 notviki .tell AlexDaniel you were waiting for it to happen again: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-01-11#i_13898957
11:32 yoleaux notviki: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
11:33 raschipi Thanks Pete, I was looking who to send the message to.
11:34 notviki Who's pete?
11:34 raschipi Hum, I thought your name was Pete.
11:34 raschipi Sorry for the confusion.
11:34 notviki nope
11:35 faraco why the doc build still return error. hmm
11:35 notviki faraco: doesn't the above say it passed?
11:36 notviki the travis bot
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11:37 faraco that's weird. the build of 3306.1 failed.
11:37 raschipi notviki: Isn't your name "Peter Evans"?
11:37 faraco or I'm crazy
11:38 notviki raschipi: no
11:39 raschipi Soory for the confusion, then.
11:40 notviki raschipi: and even if you knew my name, why use it here? Not everyone wants to be IDed
11:41 raschipi Sorry for it. I have seen it in many places, I thought you didn't care.
11:41 raschipi Calling people their names is considered polite where I come from.
11:42 DrForr raschipi: This is IRC, rules are a bit different here. I use nicks in public and private conversation on IRC, and real names only rarely.
11:42 cschwenz DrForr++  :-)
11:43 DrForr Part of the fun of going to a convention is having people say "*You're* X?"
11:43 raschipi Sorry for the cultural mismatch. I learned it already.
11:43 mst raschipi: on IRC, a person's nick *is* their name, and calling them something else is weird
11:43 DrForr No worries.
11:44 raschipi Let me change mine, then.
11:45 DrForr Hell, the first time *I* went to a convention (YAPC 99) I unpacked my stuff at the dorm and headed out to look for the nearest bar, figuring I'd find some hacker types.
11:45 mst I mean, I solved the problem by using my initials, because I wanted a coherent multi-platform identity
11:45 mst but people are allowed to want different things to me
11:46 DrForr I didn't think there was a picture of me online anywhere, so you can imagine my surprise when I walked by a cafe' and heard 30 people shout my nick in unison.
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11:50 mst DrForr: oh that's *excellent*
11:50 faraco "Hey DrForr, want drink some coffee with me!"
11:50 mst I'm so used to IRC nicks as primary identifiers that I mostly use people's nicks in person too
11:50 xtreak joined #perl6
11:51 * ilmari justuses his real name as his irc nick
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11:51 mst (this is one of the reasons I grumble about Zoffix being unable to pick one, but he appears to be ok with me just always using Zoffix ;)
11:51 travis-ci Doc build failed. Samantha McVey 'Try and end the highlights process after we are done with it'
11:51 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/190920650 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/661567b68641...b0221a51749d
11:51 travis-ci left #perl6
11:51 ilmari although I didn't start using it IRL until 9 years ago
11:52 cschwenz i've run into the following problem in some code i'm writing:  given an Iterable that contains any Perl 6 core data type, how do i find the first String/Number (descending into contained Iterables when found, so depth first) in the given Iterable?
11:52 mst ilmari: this is filed under "things mst was never going to notice" ;)
11:53 ilmari mst: when I lived in .no I used my norwegian first name, but that turned out to be phonetically confusing to english-speaking people
11:53 ilmari so when I quit my first job I changed to using the finnish one
11:53 ilmari (first .uk job)
11:54 mst well, I'm pretty sure your first name contains at least one sound that doesn't actually appear in english
11:55 mst the best I can manage IIRC is to be recognisably trying while mispronouncing it
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11:56 ilmari mst: most people do a reasonable job when reading it out loud (modulo the wrong a sound), it's when I say it to them it's confusing
11:56 mst pretty sure the 'f' isn't an english 'f' sound either?
11:56 mst it seems like halfway between an f and a v to me when I hear you say it
11:57 raschipi SmokeMachine also uses his complete name in GitHub and didn't mind when I used it.
11:57 ilmari mst: that might just be me being sloppy, or the preceding g influencing it
11:57 gfldex cschwenz: see https://gfldex.wordpress.com/2016/10/02/things-i-found-out-while-finding/
11:57 gfldex cschwenz: look for .&?BLOCK
11:57 brokenchdir cschwenz: deepmap/duckmap?
11:58 mst raschipi: sure. most people won't care. but IRC nicks are a better identifier on IRC anyway. so you may's well use them.
11:58 brokenchdir I don't remember if they do depth first but easy to check
11:58 cschwenz thanks gfldex :-)
11:58 mst the whole "not identifying people" is not my primary reason, clarity of communication is my primary reason
11:58 cschwenz brokenchdir: what do you mean by deepmap/duckmap?
12:00 brokenchdir cschwenz: the two routines
12:00 DrForr raschipi: See how your client highligts when I use your nick? It won't happen with your real name.
12:00 brokenchdir cschwenz: made for... descending into stuff
12:00 brokenchdir cschwenz: https://docs.perl6.org/routine/duckmap  https://docs.perl6.org/routine/deepmap
12:01 brokenchdir m: [1, [3, 5, [6, 'foo',], 'bar'], 'meow'].duckmap: -> Str $x { say "First Str is $x"; last }
12:01 camelia rakudo-moar 0f149d: OUTPUT«First Str is foo␤First Str is bar␤First Str is meow␤»
12:01 brokenchdir too bad `last` doesn't work
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12:03 gfldex m: (1,2,3).map: { say 'ello'; last; say 'oi‽' }
12:03 camelia rakudo-moar 0f149d: OUTPUT«ello␤»
12:03 gfldex brokenchdir: i would vote that last not working in duckmap to be a bug
12:04 arnsholt mst: I think the only sound in ilmari's first name that isn't in english is the a vowel
12:04 arnsholt But Norwegian has weird intonation patterns, which tends to throw non-natives for a bit of a loop
12:05 arnsholt They're not phonemic though (barring a couple of edge cases), so getting them wrong isn't too big a deal
12:05 ilmari arnsholt: the a? that's pretty similar to the (southern-english) bath, but a bit shorter
12:06 mst getting something with the intonation of the southern 'bath' sound and the length of the northern 'bath' sound is ... interesting
12:07 ilmari people who read it pronounce it like the northern-english bath, which I can live with
12:07 cschwenz ah, okay.  thanks brokenchdir :-)
12:07 ilmari i.e. like the first syllable in dagger
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12:18 El_Che Perl devroom at FOSDEM full schedule: https://fosdem.org/2017/schedule/track/perl/ (added: stevan's abstract)
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12:20 mst El_Che: who's going to be in charge of the LTs ?
12:20 brokenchdir gfldex, yeah, my first expectation was for it to work
12:21 DrForr Oh, goodie, he's just after me :) Well, after I put the crowd to sleep, he can wake 'em up :)
12:21 El_Che mst: in chanrge? I was thinking on show up, and stop after max 5m (most people will announce things like a workshop or yapce I suspect, so often just a few minutes)
12:21 El_Che mst: nothing planned really
12:22 mst El_Che: right, but whoever's timekeeping normally has a list in advance
12:22 mst the main thing here is I don't want the list to be full before I have a chance to work out wtf I feel like giving an LT about ;)
12:23 El_Che ah, you're coming? nice
12:23 mst looks like "probably" atm
12:23 El_Che I called it "Announcements & LT" because of the more spontanous nature of the "talks")
12:24 mst right
12:24 El_Che I could reserve the first spots for people that come to see mee during the day
12:24 El_Che I need to think about that
12:25 El_Che I reckon, being Sunday, many people are tired and just want to go to the restaurant :)
12:25 mst suggest asking rgeoffrey for advice
12:25 El_Che thx, I will
12:25 mst he runs the ::NA and ::EU LTs
12:25 mst also you could ask acme who does the LPW ones
12:26 El_Che mst: I'll discuss it with Wendy and maybe post more about the format
12:27 mst basically, if possible, you want people to come up with LT ideas on the day if something inspires them
12:27 mst BUT also you don't want to end up with scheduling issues thereby
12:27 El_Che I took a more improvisized approach because I wan't really thinking about talks, more about "hey, i have something cool to say"
12:27 El_Che 15m is pretty short
12:27 mst oh, you've only got a 15m slot for the whole thing?
12:28 El_Che yes --> hence the "announcements addition"
12:28 El_Che we had some people jumping in at the last minute
12:28 mst don't call it LTs at all then, just 'announcements and stuff'
12:29 mst given a normal LT is normally ~4min
12:29 El_Che I expect Theo talking about YAPC::EU and Wendy about the post-fosdem restaurant
12:29 mst right
12:29 El_Che adapting the title is a good idea
12:30 El_Che I fear though, when removing LT, people won't come forward
12:30 El_Che LT == open mic
12:30 El_Che Announcement == "internal thingy"
12:31 El_Che "Announcement & Open Mic" or something
12:31 mst yeah, so do it as 'announcements and lightning advertisements' and then tell people in between other talks
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12:42 arnsholt ilmari: True, true. The dialects have the pure a sound. But TBH, it's mostly the intonation that makes foreigners sound funny when they attempt Norwegian
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13:32 faraco hey guys, is there anybody knows any perl 6 freely released ebooks? I'm gonna add it to here - https://github.com/vhf/free-programming-books/pull/2198
13:34 brokenchdir Don't know any
13:34 brokenchdir As in.. there likely aren't any.
13:35 DrForr Well, there are several books in progress and at least one that I know is out, but not for free yet.
13:36 faraco DrForr - you mean the 'Perl 6 by Example'?
13:36 DrForr Andrew Shitov, yes.
13:36 faraco ah
13:37 faraco I see. Well, I have to wait a little longer then. Thanks for the input guys.
13:38 hchienjo joined #perl6
13:38 DrForr Or write one yourself while you're learning, that's the best time because you know exactly what you want to find, and can research it as you're writing :)
13:40 faraco DrForr: unfortunately, my English is not good enough for me to write a book. Although, you give me an idea to write it in my native language.
13:41 DrForr Which is? Someone might be willing to translate if the text has already been written...
13:41 DrForr There's one that's coming out which is in French originally, but being translated to English.
13:42 xinming joined #perl6
13:42 faraco oh, now you giving me another idea to use Gitbook.
13:42 faraco collaborating writing.
13:43 perlpilot_ also, don't discount someone helping to make your english better if you choose to go that route.
13:43 faraco thanks DrForr, will try that and see where it's going.
13:43 DrForr perlpilot_: Good point, I've offered to do that here for our docs but nobody seemed to be interested.
13:44 faraco perlpilot_: Well, I try to improve my English by using them as much as possible.
13:46 cschwenz left #perl6
13:49 faraco s/them/it
13:55 * [Coke] boggles at the britishness of "want different things to me". :)
14:01 * brokenchicken wonders how to make perl6 scripts not have a kilometre long paths in htop
14:01 shmibs joined #perl6
14:01 brokenchicken my p6 is via rakudobrew :/
14:01 mst brokenchicken: overwrite whatever the local $0 equivalent is?
14:02 * brokenchicken doesn't know how to do that :(
14:02 mst and I don't know where the list of superglobals is documented
14:03 mst [Coke]: hm?
14:04 buggable joined #perl6
14:05 dj_goku joined #perl6
14:06 [Coke] mst: in ameringlish, it's "different from" or "different than"
14:06 [Coke] "to" is right out.
14:06 brokenchicken well, there are $*PROGRAM / $*PROGRAM-NAME but they're immutable and if I `my` them I don't see them change the htop value
14:07 mst oh, this may be another on the list of "standard facilities perl6 doesn't have yet" then
14:07 mst load Inline::Perl5 and set $0 from perl5 space
14:07 mst what could possibly go wrong
14:09 brokenchicken and that htop name is "/home/zoffix/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/bin/moar --execname=/home/zoffix/.rakudobrew/bin/../moar-nom/install/bin/perl6 --libpath=/home/zoffix/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/nqp/lib --libpath=/home/zoffix/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/nqp/lib --libpath=/home/zoffix/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/lib
14:09 brokenchicken --libpath=/home/zoffix/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/runtime /home/zoffix/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/runtime/perl6.moarvm foo.p6"
14:09 brokenchicken dunno why nqp/lib is there twice
14:09 mst because once for moar and once for nqpm and it so happens they have the same prefix and the script generator doesn't dedupe because it predates us knowing what a prefix is
14:09 brokenchicken :o
14:10 * [Coke] is kind of wistful that @inc on twitter ain't a perl handle.
14:10 mst moar ships a share/nqp directory containing the opcodes
14:11 mst nqp ships a share/nqp directory containing the other crap it needs
14:11 mst the fact everything assumed they would be the same directory was a lolsob slide
14:11 brokenchicken :D
14:12 [Coke] samcv: ah. I just realized that the slowdown of 'make htmlify' here on my work mactop is very likely a problem with dayjob's enterprise security "features" that were rolled out in teh past month.
14:13 [Coke] dammit.
14:13 brokenchicken EVAL '$0 = "foo"; print "hi\n"', :lang<Perl5>; didn't do anything to help
14:15 Geth ecosystem: finanalyst++ created pull request #285: adding Informative (popup dialog box) to ecosystem
14:15 Geth ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/285
14:15 Geth ecosystem: 74954c881a | (Richard Hainsworth)++ | META.list
14:15 Geth ecosystem: adding Informative (popup dialog box) to ecosystem
14:15 Geth ecosystem:
14:15 Geth ecosystem: see https://github.com/finanalyst/p6-inform
14:15 Geth ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/74954c881a
14:15 Geth ecosystem: f3bc5568c8 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list
14:15 Geth ecosystem: Merge pull request #285 from finanalyst/master
14:15 Geth ecosystem:
14:15 Geth ecosystem: adding Informative (popup dialog box) to ecosystem
14:15 Geth ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/f3bc5568c8
14:15 brokenchicken hmm
14:16 brokenchicken IIRC that ain't gonna work actually..
14:16 mst brokenchicken: welp, there's probably some weird interaction between rakudo and perl5 that I don't understand then
14:17 Geth ecosystem: 42baa321b4 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list
14:17 Geth ecosystem: s/META.json/META6.json/
14:17 Geth ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/42baa321b4
14:20 ocbtec joined #perl6
14:22 Geth doc/coke/pngless: 29295940fe | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | 2 files
14:22 Geth doc/coke/pngless: Don't generate .png typegraph files
14:22 Geth doc/coke/pngless: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/29295940fe
14:22 pyrimidine joined #perl6
14:25 Geth doc: coke++ created pull request #1131: Don't generate .png typegraph files
14:25 Geth doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/pull/1131
14:25 [Coke] hey, the PR notifications work. nifty.
14:26 [Coke] docs - do we have an infrastructure machine we can run a dynamic site on?
14:27 mst [Coke]: doing that for docs.perl6.org sounds like a terrible idea.
14:28 moritz [Coke]: depends on the anticipated resource usage
14:28 moritz the machine has 4g RAM
14:28 [Coke] eh. guess I'll just do everything in JS.
14:29 mst [Coke]: it's all fun and games until an aggregator hugs you to death
14:29 brokenchicken :)
14:30 [Coke] mst: I mean, obvs. it'd be caching. somewhere. (I don't want to ahve to set any of that up though, so.)
14:30 cdg joined #perl6
14:30 mst a static site generator is the easiest to sysadmin pre-emptive cache
14:30 [Coke] I'd appreciate if someone whose machine ISN'T being slowed to a crawl by security software gave that PR a go.
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14:31 travis-ci Doc build errored. Will "Coke" Coleda 'Don't generate .png typegraph files'
14:31 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/190968416 https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/29295940fea2
14:31 travis-ci left #perl6
14:31 [Coke] Install [FAIL] for zef:auth('github:ugexe'): ^^
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14:36 andrzejku hey someone from USA here?
14:36 pmurias andrzejku: plenty of people from the USA here
14:37 andrzejku I have got an opportunity to take a job in Detroit
14:37 jonadab There are jobs in Detroit?
14:37 jonadab TIL
14:37 brokenchicken There are people in Detroit? TIL
14:37 andrzejku yeah, I also think it is bad idea even for guy from middle europe
14:37 faraco Holy
14:38 andrzejku we are poor here but Detroit is worse
14:38 andrzejku however maybe I am not right
14:38 jonadab andrzejku: Personally, I would consider detroit the second-worst city in America, after Los Angeles.
14:38 faraco why? crime rate?
14:39 jonadab faraco: crime rate is certainly relevant, and part of it.
14:39 [Coke] I mean, there are some big names still there that are good to work for. my company has a large it presense there.
14:39 brokenchicken They should build another robocop :P
14:39 andrzejku I also don't know if I need rent car to live there and how much will cost life there with a apartament renting and healthy food for 3 ppl
14:39 jonadab Also, detroit was historically dominated, economically speaking, by the automobile manufacturing industry, which has been slowly dying in this country for more than half a century.
14:40 jonadab andrzejku: You'd need a car, yes.
14:40 andrzejku oh okay :D
14:40 andrzejku jonadab, so it is not for me
14:40 jonadab But that's true _almost_ anywhere in America.
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14:41 jonadab I wouldn't really consider needing a car to be one of the reasons to avoid Detroit.
14:41 andrzejku I need to make driving license since I go by foot or public transport and by bike in my city
14:41 andrzejku nearly everywhere
14:41 jonadab I go by foot around Galion, sure; but at some point you need to go somewhere too far away to walk.
14:42 jonadab Any city large enough that you never need to go down the road to another city, is large enough that you can't walk across town.
14:42 brokenchicken What about public transit?
14:42 jonadab And really pervasive public transport in America is limited to a handful of megacities (Chicago, New York, SoCal, etc.
14:43 andrzejku looks like Europe is more attractive for me
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14:43 jonadab Some medium-size cities (e.g., Cleveland, Chicago) have _some_ public transport; I imagine Detroit is likely in that category; but it would be massively inconvenient to be entirely dependent on that.
14:44 jonadab I mean, when my brother-in-law lived in Miami, he relied on public transport; it took him 2-3 hours by bus to make a trip that would be an hour or less by car.
14:45 jonadab (When he married my sister, he moved to West Palm Beach, and they have a car.)
14:45 mst america doesn't really do public transport, sadly
14:45 mst that and the whole 'papers please' attitude are probably my main annoyances
14:46 jonadab I don't think public transport is really practical in most of America.  Our population distribution is too evenly spread out, not bunched up like Europe and Japan.
14:46 andrzejku what do you by 'papers please'?
14:46 pyrimidine joined #perl6
14:46 brokenchicken Here it's more convenient for me to take the bus than sit in traffic
14:46 andrzejku mean*
14:46 mst having to have my passport with me at all times
14:47 brokenchicken Well, you do have a funny accent :P
14:47 jonadab mst: That's likely only relevant if you're near a border.
14:47 jonadab Or a major coastal city, possibly.
14:47 jonadab Well, you need ID if you do something like write a check, so if your passport is your only ID...
14:48 mst jonadab: or if I want to buy cigarettes, or if a cop is bored, or ...
14:48 * brokenchicken wonders what's the most accurate way to get just the fractional part of a numeric...
14:48 f3ew mst: that's no different from Europe (papers please)
14:48 mst f3ew: yes it is.
14:49 jonadab mst: I live in Ohio, and it's been months since I showed anyone my ID.
14:49 jonadab Last time I went to the BMV, I think, in fact.
14:49 jonadab My bank doesn't even ask for ID when I cash my paychecks.
14:49 mst jonadab: I get the feeling the non-coastal states are significantly less terrible
14:49 jonadab mst: That seems likely.
14:50 mst IIRC in ohio the only time I facepalmed was the fact that the bars had to card people who were obviously in their forties
14:50 jonadab But don't tell the people from New York and California, they want to call us "flyover country" and pretend we aren't significant.
14:50 mst yes, well, I used 'non-coastal' advisedly :)
14:50 jonadab Heh.
14:52 mst but in both .uk and mainland europe, I can usually leave my passport in my hotel room and it never matter
14:52 jonadab As for bars, yes, they want to err on the side of carding anyone even remotely close to potentially needing to be carded, but that's partly a cultural thing to do with the role of alcohol in society.  (The socially acceptable way to drink alcohol in America is _at home_.  Doing it out in public is...  frowned on.)
14:53 jgrabber joined #perl6
14:53 jonadab I kept my passport on my person when I was in Canada, but I think I only ever actually needed it at the border.
14:53 jdv79 afaik its illegal in most, if not all of the US to drink in public
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14:54 jonadab jdv79: Well, it's legal to drink in a bar; but there is significant social stigma attached to even going into a bar.
14:54 jdv79 where?  i can tell you that is not the case here in nyc
14:54 jdv79 in fact its likely teh opposite
14:55 jdv79 odd convo for #perl6.  maybe i should backlog...
14:55 jonadab I'm in Ohio, have also lived in Indiana, Michigan, and travelled significantly in Pennsylvania.
14:55 f3ew mst: I have to be able to prove my identity (which requires passport + residence permit/visa in the EU)
14:55 mst f3ew: for what?
14:55 f3ew mst: it's a legal requirement :)
14:56 f3ew Any police officer can ask for it, my bank needs it for anything significant, getting insurance, etc
14:56 brokenchicken 0.o
14:56 * brokenchicken doesn't even HAVE a passport
14:56 brokenchicken In Canukistan.
14:57 jonadab brokenchicken: You only need a passport if you travel outside your country of citizenship.
14:57 jonadab I never had one either, until I planned a trip to Niagara Falls.
14:57 pmurias f3ew: isn't it country rather then Europe specific?
14:57 mst f3ew: oh, identity documents for banks, sure
14:57 jonadab (Later I travelled more extensively in Canada.)
14:58 jonadab Right, banks require ID probably everywhere; but it only has to be a passport if you're in a foreign country, obviously.
14:59 jonadab Actually, the _first_ time I travelled in Canada, I didn't need a passport.  But that was before September 11th.
15:00 mst after which we collectively lost our shit, but that's a whole different rant that we probably don't want to get all over the channel
15:00 jonadab True.
15:00 jonadab (Sane response to September 11th:  hmm, maybe this long-standing policy of pacifying plane hijackers by doing whatever they want until the plane is on the ground, is not such an awesome plan; let's not do that.)
15:01 mst f3ew: given when I visit EU countries normally I don't even have a paper visa of any sort, I'm confused how I could be legally required to carry one to show the police though
15:02 jonadab mst: A visa is different.  I don't need a visa to go to Canada either.
15:02 jdv79 I think technically a US citizen is required to be able to produce a passport in the schengen area but i've never carried mine and had no trouble.
15:02 pmurias mst: they can check your passport to see if you are from the EU
15:02 mst jonadab: I'm responding to < f3ew> mst: I have to be able to prove my identity (which requires passport + residence permit/visa in the EU)
15:03 jdv79 i mean out and about.  of course i had one.
15:03 jonadab mst: Whether a visa is required depends where you're from, typically.
15:03 jonadab US citizens don't need a visa in Canada; Europeans don't need a visa anywhere in the EU.
15:03 mst jonadab: the sky is blue
15:04 mst (we're playing "state the obvious" until f3ew replies, right?)
15:05 jonadab mst: Do I need to state the even more obvious thing that, this being the internet, he might be from a different country than you are?
15:05 jnthn mst: Here in .cz, you can always be asked for ID by the police, and can be fined if you can't produce it. In practice, I never have been asked to date.
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15:06 jnthn So it's certainly the case that you're required to carry some form of ID in some European countries.
15:06 jast my country (EU) does in fact require people to possess official proof of identity (passport or identity card), though it does not require you to carry it with you
15:06 mst jonadab: no, you don't, which is why I was waiting for him to reply, so we would find out.
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15:12 mst I don't actually mind the idea that I should always have ID with me while in a foreign country. What I mind is the idea that I'm going to have to produce it All The Damn Time, and that that's considered completely normal
15:13 jnthn Ah. Then, in my experience, no problems here. :)
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15:15 mst americans seem to find my aversion to that to be as confusing as my lack of aversion to CCTV
15:15 mst oh what a world etc.
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15:16 travis-ci Doc build passed. Will "Coke" Coleda 'Don't generate .png typegraph files'
15:16 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/190968416 https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/29295940fea2
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15:16 raschi Come to Brazil, you don't need to carry id around here.
15:17 f3ew pmurias: I'm not a citizen of a EU country, they all have that requirement
15:17 pyrimidine joined #perl6
15:17 huf here you're expected to carry your ID all the time but you almost never have to produce it, UNLESS you're a teenager or a minority
15:17 brokenchicken Wasn't not being stopped by police without reason one of the items on universal declaration of human rights that like all of UN supposedly aheres to?
15:17 f3ew Sorry, work called
15:18 raschi "without reason" They can do it with very little reason, though.
15:18 f3ew It's not *all* the time. It's *any* time a government agent demands it.
15:18 huf "you looked suspicious"
15:18 huf done
15:19 f3ew "Prove you are legally resident"
15:19 huf suspicious behavior includes being 16 years old without a parent near :)
15:19 raschi "I thought I smelled something funny"
15:19 jeek No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
15:19 jeek Depends on how you define "detention", I'd wager.
15:19 [Coke] m: lc
15:19 camelia rakudo-moar 563d11: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Argument to "lc" seems to be malformed␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3lc7⏏5<EOL>␤Other potential difficulties:␤    Unsupported use of bare "lc"; in Perl 6 please use .lc if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument, or u…»
15:20 pyrimidi_ joined #perl6
15:20 f3ew jeek: "show ID or we will detain you"
15:21 [Coke] m: tc
15:21 camelia rakudo-moar 563d11: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling tc() will never work with declared signature (Cool $s)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5tc␤»
15:21 * [Coke] wonders why those are so different.
15:21 raschi In Brazil, they can stop you to ID you if they suspect a crime. Technically, at this time you'd have to present id. But it has been modernized and police can serch the civil registries from their cars now. So people don't need to carry id anymore, just state their complete name and birth date when asked.
15:22 raschi Well, it's not a federal system, but it works like that in the south.
15:22 mst raschi: that fits within my criteria for "actually civilised"
15:23 raschi mst: thanks.
15:23 gregf_ is it true that 80% of the population end up in prisons in brazil? #no case for an ID then
15:24 mst gregf_: wat
15:24 mst I sometimes suspect britain is basically kinda neurotic about mandatory id
15:24 raschi gregf_: No, this is not the United States.
15:24 huf hahahahahaha 80%
15:24 f3ew Heh
15:26 raschi Carrying id has never been mandatory in Brazil, but police was forbidden from arresting you to perform identification if you were carrying yours. So people got used to carrying it around. Now police can id people without the document, so it's not necessary anymore.
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15:30 perlpilot_ #perl6 is weird today
15:30 Woodi it's all a bit strange... police officer standing in fron of you do not ask "Who you are?" but rather "Show me the papers"... It's seems so "remote" from reality ;)  Just like Kerberos, to do things you need TGT from some centralised place :)
15:32 jast at least Kerberos doesn't also charge you $$$ for the TGT
15:33 raschi In Brazil people are not charged for their id either. The government is forbidden from charging for procedures considered "essencial for citenship".
15:34 f3ew Nice
15:34 Woodi anyway, chdir in multi threaded app is weird... some layer between environment and app internals (job queue?) should be some standard thing :)
15:36 Woodi raschi: wow... Brazil gov sytem looks to be very sane. maybe you need some advertising ? :)
15:38 pmurias Woodi: AFAIK the id checking works the same name in our country too
15:38 Woodi pmurias: but gov/police attitude seems some sane...
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15:41 pmurias Woodi: we don't have any urban warfare so the policing seems relatively sane
15:41 raschipi Our laws are good, they're not followed sometimes, though.
15:42 Woodi pmurias: don't saying we have prolems with police or id. actually law allow us to not carry id at all
15:44 khw joined #perl6
15:44 raschipi Woodi: where are you from?
15:44 Woodi raschipi: Poland
15:45 raschipi What would the police do if they suspect you commited a crime and you aren't carrying id?
15:46 Geth doc: cae174eba6 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | htmlify.p6
15:46 Geth doc: Revert "Try and end the highlights process after we are done with it"
15:46 Geth doc:
15:46 Geth doc: This reverts commit b0221a51749d2356c43d318ef9163c7eaed22fba.
15:46 Geth doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/cae174eba6
15:46 Woodi raschipi: first, they will make me to wait :)  and then depends if I'm suspect, etc
15:46 [Coke] samcv: I reverted your last doc commit, it had a syntax error.
15:49 Woodi and I would not worry about car industry in States :)
15:49 * Woodi afks
15:51 shayan_ joined #perl6
15:53 raschipi There's a "right to petition" in Brazil, and it's considered on of the "basic citizenship" rights, which means anyone can petition the government and they won't charge for it. My wife works answering petitions people file at a public office.
16:03 pyrimidine joined #perl6
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16:09 Geth doc: a6367a6258 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | t/00-load.t
16:09 Geth doc: catch htmlify.p6 syntax errors sooner, maybe?
16:09 Geth doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a6367a6258
16:17 pyrimidine joined #perl6
16:17 pmurias -e 'say "Hello World"' now works in (local) rakudo.js with the full setting loaded :)
16:18 timotimo nice!
16:19 dj_goku pmurias++
16:21 brokenchicken pmurias++
16:24 Khisanth joined #perl6
16:25 jnthn \o/
16:25 jnthn pmurias++
16:28 brokenchicken What about -e 'say "I ♥ Perl 6"' ? :)
16:30 raschipi -e 'say "I ???? Perl 6"'
16:31 brokenchicken m: "????".uniname.say
16:31 camelia rakudo-moar 563d11: OUTPUT«BUTTERFLY␤»
16:31 brokenchicken oh it's my char :)
16:32 * brokenchicken is sad the terminal doesn't display it
16:33 pmurias brokenchicken: your example works
16:33 brokenchicken pmurias++
16:34 kybr now that i'm working with unicode symbols more i want to know the best way to mix these symbols and perl6 and c++ programs. right now, the width of the symbols varies so that characters overlap. i've been using a fixed-width font.
16:35 kybr what sort of terminal/editor configurations are people using to do perl6 with unicode?
16:40 pmurias brokenchicken: for now rakudo.js has the unicode support js does, as doing NFG stuff without slowing things down will require significant thought
16:40 brokenchicken eh, better than nothing :)
16:40 brokenchicken Progress!
16:41 travis-ci joined #perl6
16:41 travis-ci Doc build passed. Will "Coke" Coleda 'Revert "Try and end the highlights process after we are done with it"
16:41 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/190998407 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/b0221a51749d...cae174eba6de
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16:43 raschipi We need to finish the C code generator before people start recommending node.js as a virtual machine to run precompiled P6 code.
16:44 timotimo i don't know about any c code generators?
16:44 raschipi Or a bytecode code generator.
16:45 timotimo you mean like rakudo?
16:45 raschipi Yeah, just a way to dump the bytecode in a way that moar can pick it up later.
16:45 Woodi pmurias++  # persistence
16:46 timotimo so ... exactly like our moar bootstrapping procedure?
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16:47 timotimo like, what we did when we didn't have an nqp-m yet, but we wanted to build nqp into nqp-m
16:47 timotimo i don't see a reason to do anything like that any more ...
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16:50 brokenchicken kybr: I just use Atom editor
16:51 brokenchicken And in a perfect world, I have unicode ops bound to the extra keys on my keyboard. In reality, I have driver issues but it don't bother me none, 'cause I haven't been programming anything for like half a year
16:52 brokenchicken pmurias: someone's asking on Twitter: "what's $*OUT in the browser?"
16:53 timotimo usually you have a dom element that slurps up all your output
16:53 timotimo but this isn't for the browser
16:53 timotimo this is for node.js, which actually has a stdout
16:53 brokenchicken Ah
16:53 timotimo it'll be for the browser at some point, too. not terribly much work.
16:53 timotimo just not the current focus, iiuc
16:57 pmurias brokenchicken: there is no clear answer to what $*OUT should be, console.log is one option
16:59 pmurias timotimo: I have run stuff generated with nqp-js with webpack in the browser in the past and it wasn't a huge amount of work
17:02 domidumont joined #perl6
17:03 pmurias why does someone have a twitter account registered using my email? :/
17:08 brokenchicken Are you sure it's not you who registered it and forgot about it? :)
17:12 pyrimidine joined #perl6
17:13 pmurias brokenchicken: yes, there where things in it I didn't tweet for sure
17:20 pyrimidine joined #perl6
17:23 brokenchicken pmurias: try entering it on https://haveibeenpwned.com/ :)
17:24 brokenchicken damn... two hacks for my primary email now increased to 3 -_-  Hacked in 2012... Released publicly in 2016 -_-
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17:41 brokenchicken Hm, for the first time ever, I now struggled a bit in comprehending Perl 5's list with some parens and ternaries because my brain kept plugging in Perl 6's non-flatteting of lists into it.
17:41 brokenchicken I hope I'll find a Perl 6-based source of income BEFORE I complete forget Perl 5 :o
17:43 pmurias brokenchicken: what if you will have to use Inline::Perl5 in your Perl 6-based job? ;)
17:44 brokenchicken It'd mostly be for a couple of modules that I'd still use in Perl 6 land.
17:47 llfourn joined #perl6
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18:20 brokenchicken m: "\x[7]\x[3]".uninames.words[^2].join.say
18:20 camelia rakudo-moar 563d11: OUTPUT«BELLEND␤»
18:21 * brokenchicken giggles
18:21 jnthn :P
18:21 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
18:30 * masak .oO( ars bellend-i )
18:31 sjn joined #perl6
18:32 samcv m: say "\c[BELL]".ord
18:32 camelia rakudo-moar 563d11: OUTPUT«7␤»
18:32 [Coke] pmurias++
18:39 pyrimidine joined #perl6
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18:46 SmokeMachine m: multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $attr, :$c!) {$attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:U:) {42}); $attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:D:) is rw {Proxy.new: FETCH => method () {$attr.get_value(self)}, STORE => method ($val) {$attr.set_value(self, $val)}})}; class A {has $.b is c}; say A.b; my $a = A.new; $a.b = 1; say $a.b # why?
18:47 camelia rakudo-moar 563d11: OUTPUT«42␤MoarVM panic: Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 131072 bytes␤»
18:54 Tonik joined #perl6
18:54 tony-o pmurias: brokenchicken: console.log seems like the most equiv to $*OUT and $*ERR seems equivalent to console.error
18:58 ggoebel joined #perl6
18:59 lizmat http://blogs.perl.org/users/pawel_murias/2017/01/say-hello-world-works-with-the-full-setting.html   # pmurias++
18:59 AlexDaniel .
18:59 yoleaux 11:32Z <notviki> AlexDaniel: you were waiting for it to happen again: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-01-11#i_13898957
19:00 AlexDaniel ah dammit
19:00 AlexDaniel I thought I did it already
19:00 ggoebel andrzejku: Regarding Detroit, yes you would need a car.
19:00 AlexDaniel .tell notviki thanks
19:00 yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to notviki.
19:01 hoelzro dang, that's awesome pmurias++
19:01 espadrine joined #perl6
19:03 ggoebel andrzejku: it is still one of the more dangerous cities in the USA from a crime statistics perspective
19:04 AlexDaniel pmurias++ that sounds great indeed
19:04 brokenchicken AlexDaniel: notviki died
19:04 ggoebel andrzejku: that said, a lot depends on where you live in or around Detroit
19:06 AlexDaniel dammit, that was the wrong one…
19:06 ggoebel andrzejku: if you have kids, I would recommend doing research on schools and living outside Detroit
19:07 bisectable6 joined #perl6
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19:07 AlexDaniel what, it's fixed?
19:07 committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦«it's»: Cannot find this revision (did you mean “Linz”?)
19:07 AlexDaniel ok one second…
19:08 shayan_ joined #perl6
19:09 committable6 joined #perl6
19:09 AlexDaniel what, it's fixed?
19:10 AlexDaniel right
19:10 brokenchicken \o/
19:10 pyrimidine joined #perl6
19:10 AlexDaniel brokenchicken: weird, he was alive just a few hours ago
19:11 AlexDaniel maybe he simply changed his nickname, right? ;)
19:11 AlexDaniel u: chicken
19:11 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+1F414 CHICKEN [So] (????)
19:11 AlexDaniel u: broken
19:11 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+00A6 BROKEN BAR [So] (¦)
19:11 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+238B BROKEN CIRCLE WITH NORTHWEST ARROW [So] (⎋)
19:12 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/960b331e58c7e01fb1a789ea91e6ddd8
19:12 AlexDaniel ????‍????
19:13 ggoebel pmurias: pmurias++ what is next for rakudo-js?
19:15 pmurias ggoebel: fixing bugs to make tests pass and speeding things up
19:16 girafe joined #perl6
19:17 pmurias ggoebel: also making the build system vaguely sane so that it can be packaged up and is easier for others to play with
19:18 AlexDaniel I have never thought about not taking an ID card with me anywhere I go. Who knows what document you'd need to sign? re: carrying id card with you
19:18 AlexDaniel but that's Estonia…
19:18 moritz it's not such a big burden
19:20 pyrimidine joined #perl6
19:24 AlexDaniel and a lot of people are using it as a primary method for logging into stuff (e.g. bank accounts, or any other local website actually…)
19:27 hankache joined #perl6
19:29 moritz German passports (and possibly ID cards, don't know) also have some kind of PKI stuff, but with a batshit crazy propietary protocol, so basically nobody uses it
19:30 AlexDaniel passports? How do you slide a passport into a card reader?
19:31 samcv brokenchicken, \o/ https://github.com/atom/first-mate/issues/85#issuecomment-271969450
19:31 samcv should be able to get atom-language-perl6 to detect .pm files now
19:31 samcv once this person changes this ????
19:32 kyan joined #perl6
19:33 * brokenchicken doesn't recall what this about
19:33 brokenchicken You sure you're talking to the right chicken?
19:34 samcv uhm it's about atom perl 6 highlighting. so we can detect .pm files as being perl 6 vs perl 5
19:34 samcv unless you are notnotviki
19:34 diakopter lulz
19:36 brokenchicken Cool.
19:36 * brokenchicken uses sublime text 2 for Perl 5
19:36 brokenchicken It's... sublime :}
19:38 El_Che samcv++
19:38 El_Che using atom for perl 5 & 6 was a non-starter
19:40 brokenchicken fwiw, I don't even have first-mate installed, so you've probably mistaken me with someone else...
19:40 raschipi We lost him.
19:44 samcv brokenchicken, it's in atom
19:44 samcv heh
19:44 samcv nice my unicode manuals came \o/
19:44 samcv both volumes. took a while. they're print on demand
19:45 brokenchicken \o/
19:47 llfourn joined #perl6
19:48 samcv oh looks like i missed the non emoji sequences in my mvm PR for adding sequences. will have to add this for the next one.
19:48 samcv such as LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH MACRON AND GRAVE is U+100 U+300
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19:56 [Coke] m: my $re = "<< FACE >>" ; say "A FACE IS HERE" ~~ / $re /;
19:56 camelia rakudo-moar 3d8628: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
19:56 brokenchicken m: my $re = "<< FACE >>" ; say "A FACE IS HERE" ~~ / <$re> /;
19:56 camelia rakudo-moar 3d8628: OUTPUT«「FACE」␤»
19:57 [Coke] danke.
20:03 brokenchicken .tell raschi it was in #perl6-dev https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2017-01-10#i_13894263 RE: "do you have a link to the log where what motivated that commit happened?"
20:03 yoleaux brokenchicken: I'll pass your message to raschi.
20:04 samcv [Coke], did this trigger when we weren't using proc::async? https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/cae174eba6de2038c82e0842338ee316bd64386e
20:05 chansen_ joined #perl6
20:07 [Coke] samcv: it didn't even compile.
20:07 [Coke] "perl6 -c htmlify.p6" died.
20:07 samcv oh ok thanks
20:07 [Coke] $no-highlight isn't a variable there.
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20:44 _4d47 p6: say 1.578.round(0.11);
20:44 camelia rakudo-moar ba8a28: OUTPUT«1.54␤»
20:44 brokenchicken :\
20:45 brokenchicken s: 1.578, 'round', \(.11)
20:45 SourceBaby brokenchicken, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/ba8a284/src/core/Real.pm#L44
20:46 brokenchicken p6: say 1.578.round(0.01);
20:46 camelia rakudo-moar ba8a28: OUTPUT«1.58␤»
20:47 brokenchicken p6: say 1.578.round(0.42);
20:47 camelia rakudo-moar ba8a28: OUTPUT«1.68␤»
20:47 AlexDaniel why :\ ?
20:47 brokenchicken .oO( docs could use more examples... https://docs.perl6.org/routine/round )
20:48 _4d47 aww silly me, thanks brokenchicken!
20:48 brokenchicken p6: say 1.578.round(0.5);
20:48 camelia rakudo-moar ba8a28: OUTPUT«1.5␤»
20:48 llfourn joined #perl6
20:49 AlexDaniel m: say (−.55).round(.1);   # -0.5
20:49 camelia rakudo-moar ba8a28: OUTPUT«-0.5␤»
20:49 AlexDaniel that's an OK example
20:49 brokenchicken m: my $what = 1.578; my $scale = pi; say ($what / $scale + 1/2).floor * $scale;
20:49 camelia rakudo-moar ba8a28: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
20:49 brokenchicken haw
20:49 brokenchicken (^ that's the formula round sues)
20:50 * brokenchicken relocates
20:51 samcv m: say 'test'
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar c99fbc: OUTPUT«test␤»
20:54 pyrimidine joined #perl6
21:05 brokenchicken m: say (−.55).round(-.1);
21:05 camelia rakudo-moar c99fbc: OUTPUT«-0.6␤»
21:06 brokenchicken AlexDaniel: so your example's broken right?
21:06 kyan joined #perl6
21:07 AlexDaniel brokenchicken: why? What output did you expect?
21:08 brokenchicken AlexDaniel: dunno, I'm not a mathmatician :) but one of them gotta be wrong
21:09 AlexDaniel I'm surprised you can supply a negative $unit
21:09 moritz I'd say that falls under "gigo"
21:09 moritz though we might want to prevent the "garbage in" part
21:09 AlexDaniel yup
21:09 AlexDaniel m: say 2.5.round(1)
21:09 camelia rakudo-moar c99fbc: OUTPUT«3␤»
21:09 brokenchicken mortitz, how does -5.5 rounds? to -.5?
21:10 AlexDaniel m: say 2.5.round(-1)
21:10 camelia rakudo-moar c99fbc: OUTPUT«2␤»
21:10 AlexDaniel brokenchicken: where did you see that?
21:10 brokenchicken see what?
21:10 AlexDaniel -0.55 rounds to -0.5, that's ok?
21:10 moritz brokenchicken: please start to spell my name correctly :-) tab completion helps
21:11 brokenchicken sorry, imma on the phone :}
21:11 AlexDaniel :) https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/search/?nick=&amp;q=mortitz
21:11 moritz brokenchicken: one more reason to use some kind of auto completion :-)
21:12 brokenchicken lol
21:13 brokenchicken AlexDaniel-- I'm laughing at that on the bus and everyone's staring at me
21:14 brokenchicken AlexDaniel: I don't know how -.55 is supposed to round... it always up?
21:14 AlexDaniel the docs say that it's always up for mid-points
21:14 brokenchicken ah ok
21:15 AlexDaniel for negative $unit it seems to be always down
21:15 cdg joined #perl6
21:15 AlexDaniel so it's not really a gigo
21:15 brokenchicken So... let's call that a feature? ;)
21:15 AlexDaniel looks like a feature, even though probably an unintentional one
21:15 moritz but probably undocumented and untested
21:16 AlexDaniel m: say 2.5.round(0)
21:16 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«Attempt to divide 5 by zero using div␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
21:16 AlexDaniel boom
21:16 brokenchicken m: say Inf.round: -Inf
21:16 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
21:16 brokenchicken m: say Inf.round: -5
21:16 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
21:18 AlexDaniel m: dd 5.round(1)
21:18 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«5␤»
21:18 AlexDaniel m: dd 5.round(1.0)
21:18 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«5.0␤»
21:18 AlexDaniel m: dd 5.round(1e0)
21:18 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«5e0␤»
21:18 AlexDaniel interesting, right?
21:19 brokenchicken not really :)
21:19 brokenchicken m: say dd 5 + 1e0
21:19 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«6e0␤Nil␤»
21:20 brokenchicken types infect like that
21:20 brokenchicken m: dd 5.round(0i)
21:20 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«Attempt to divide 5 by zero using /␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
21:20 AlexDaniel unless it's complex, yea
21:20 brokenchicken m: dd 5.round(1+0i)
21:20 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«5e0␤»
21:20 brokenchicken heh
21:21 moritz m: dd 5.round(1+1i)
21:21 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«Can not convert 1+1i to Real: imaginary part not zero␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
21:21 brokenchicken m: dd 5 + 1+0i
21:21 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«<6+0i>␤»
21:21 xyz_ joined #perl6
21:22 brokenchicken well, I'd expect the infection to be consistent :)
21:22 pyrimidine joined #perl6
21:23 brokenchicken m: dd (1+0i).floor
21:23 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«<1+0i>␤»
21:24 xyz_ Does Perl 6 have an easy regex syntax for matching nested parenthesis? For example things like "( 1 + ( 2 + 3 ) )".
21:24 brokenchicken m: dd (1+0i).floor * (1+0i)
21:24 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«<1+0i>␤»
21:24 brokenchicken weird
21:24 brokenchicken why does .round lose it
21:24 brokenchicken .oO( it got a complex candodate )
21:25 moritz xyz_: well, Perl 6 regexes make recursion easy-ish
21:26 moritz m: my regex nested { '(' ~ ')' [ \d+ | <nested> ]+ % \+ }; say '(1+(2+3))' ~~ /<nested>/
21:26 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«No such method 'nested' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤  in regex nested at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
21:26 AlexDaniel eval: grammar G { token TOP { (<-[()]>+)? [[‘(’ ~ ‘)’ <x=.TOP> ] (<-[()]>+)?]* } }; say G.parse(‘sum ((1 2 3) (3 4 5) join)’); .say for ^9999
21:26 evalable6 AlexDaniel, rakudo-moar 644cd34: OUTPUT«「sum ((1 2 3) (3 4 5) join)」␤ 0 => 「sum 」␤ x => 「(1 2 3) (3 4 5) join」␤  x => 「1…»
21:26 evalable6 AlexDaniel, Full output: https://gist.github.com/3b5407d5f4085b86cfdf7ef80e2adda8
21:26 moritz m: my regex nested { '(' ~ ')' [ \d+ | <&nested> ]+ % \+ }; say '(1+(2+3))' ~~ /<&nested>/
21:26 camelia rakudo-moar 644cd3: OUTPUT«「(1+(2+3))」␤»
21:26 brokenchicken wow spammalicious
21:26 moritz xyz_: ^^ see above. Matching whitespace too is left as excercise to the reader :-)
21:26 brokenchicken I guess phones arent good for irc
21:27 xyz_ Thanks! :-)
21:27 brokenchicken moritz++
21:27 moritz brokenchicken: I think phones aren't good for text-based media, having crappy input and too little screen space to skim easily
21:28 brokenchicken :)
21:31 pyrimidine joined #perl6
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21:49 jonadab moritz: That's only true, of course, if phones have small screens and no good keyboard.  They really gotta start making better phones :-)
21:50 llfourn joined #perl6
21:50 jonadab There was that phablet fad for a while there, I kept hoping it would turn into photebooks...
21:50 jonadab Because the ideal thing really is a phesktop :-)
21:51 timotimo photobooks?
21:52 jonadab Hehe.
21:52 andrzejku joined #perl6
21:52 jonadab I was thinking photebook = crassis of phone + notebook
21:52 timotimo crass.
21:52 jonadab But photobook could be popular too.
21:53 jonadab No, if I wanted to be crass I'd have said phaptop.
21:53 timotimo the thing about photobook is that it contains phō
21:57 moritz is a phaptop a laptop that's only used for consuming pornography
21:57 timotimo i think that's the idea
21:58 jonadab No, no, it's a combination phone/laptop, same as a phablet is a combination phone/tablet.
21:58 timotimo hm. so a flip-phone?
21:58 jonadab Err, larger.  phablets are generally larger than other smartphones (though often smaller than a full-sized tablet).
21:59 jonadab So by extension we can surmise that a phaptop would be intermediate in size between a phone and a laptop.
21:59 timotimo hm
21:59 timotimo i'm not sure where subnotebook ends and laptop starts
22:00 timotimo i think the laptops i've been using so far have been relatively small
22:02 timotimo i had a thinkpad t23, a thinkpad x220s, a thinkpad t440s so far
22:03 bjz joined #perl6
22:11 mst I had a ... forget the oldest one, it was a pentium
22:11 mst then an x31, then an x61s, then a thinkpad tablet 2, now onto a helix 2
22:12 bjz joined #perl6
22:12 * jonadab is still waiting for them to come out with a laptop that has at least a 19" 4:3 display and a decent keyboard.
22:13 AlexDaniel define decent
22:13 timotimo oooh 4:3
22:13 brokenchicken 4:3 eww
22:13 timotimo so much space for activities
22:13 jonadab AlexDaniel: I tend to like buckling springs...
22:13 timotimo so you're fine with a 4cm thick laptop? :)
22:13 brokenchicken :F
22:13 jonadab Sure.
22:14 * AlexDaniel is still happy with his thinkpad x200
22:14 timotimo i like my laptops thin
22:14 jonadab I routinely carry around books weighing (collectively) more than double any laptop made in the last twenty years.
22:15 AlexDaniel well maybe you should stop carrying books then :D
22:15 jonadab Why?
22:15 AlexDaniel indeed, why do you have to carry them?
22:15 jonadab Because I want them in the place where I am going?
22:15 AlexDaniel sounds reasonable
22:17 AlexDaniel timotimo: by the way, do you have another workstation at home?
22:17 AlexDaniel timotimo: or you just use your laptop
22:19 yoleaux notviki: SmokeMachine remember the DEFINITE!
22:19 timotimo i have a desktop machine that i do much of my work on
22:20 timotimo among other things because i want to play a game or two every now and then
22:20 AlexDaniel timotimo: interesting. How do you synchronize?
22:20 timotimo usually via github, but sometimes i just scp between laptop and desktop
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22:40 SmokeMachine m: multi infix:<||>(42, 42) {"OK"}; say infix:<||>(42, 42); say 42 || 42
22:40 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«OK␤42␤»
22:41 brokenchicken (reads jnthn++'s report on the ticket).. so I guess it's not a bug
22:43 SmokeMachine brokenchicken: I answered the response...
22:44 * brokenchicken doesn't see it on the ticket
22:44 brokenchicken or email...
22:46 SmokeMachine brokenchicken: Just sent
22:47 SmokeMachine How could I make A.b work?
22:47 SmokeMachine m: class A {has $.b; method FALLBACK($name, |) { $name }}; say A.new.b; say A.c; say A.b
22:47 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«(Any)␤c␤Cannot look up attributes in a A type object␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
22:51 llfourn joined #perl6
22:54 brokenchicken make it a private attr?
22:55 perlpilot_ seems sub-optimal to me.
22:55 SmokeMachine brokenchicken: but I need the method on the instance and on the type object...
22:57 brokenchicken make your own accessor that doesn't whine about attrs on tpe objects
22:57 SmokeMachine I am trying to create a trait on the attribute that will create a method with the attribute name for the object type
22:57 brokenchicken method b(::?CLASS:D:) is rw {$!b}
22:58 SmokeMachine I was trying something like this:
22:59 SmokeMachine 16:46 <SmokeMachine> m: multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $attr, :$c!) {$attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:U:) {42}); $attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:D:) is rw {Proxy.new: FETCH => method () {$attr.get_value(self)}, STORE => method ($val) {$attr.set_value(self, $val)}})}; class A {has $.b is c}; say A.b; my $a = A.new; $a.b = 1; say
22:59 SmokeMachine $a.b # why?
23:01 brokenchicken m: multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $attr, :$c!) {$attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:U:) {42}); $attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:D:) is rw {Proxy.new: FETCH => method () {$attr.get_value(self)}, STORE => method ($val) {$attr.set_value(self, $val)}})}; class A {has $.b is c}; say A.b; my $a = A.new; $a.b = 1; say $a.b
23:01 brokenchicken m: multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $attr, :$c!) {$attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:U:) {42}); $attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:D:) is rw {Proxy.new: FETCH => method () {$attr.get_value(self)}, STORE => method ($val) {$attr.set_value(self, $val)}})}; class A {has $.b is c}; say A.b; my $a = A.new; $a.b = 1; say $a.b
23:01 brokenchicken camelia: yo, robot!
23:01 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«42␤MoarVM panic: Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 60320 bytes␤»
23:01 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«42␤MoarVM panic: Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 60320 bytes␤»
23:01 brokenchicken heh
23:02 brokenchicken duuno man
23:02 * brokenchicken &
23:11 labster joined #perl6
23:17 SmokeMachine m: multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $attr, :$c!) {$attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:U:) {42})}; class A {has $.b is c}; say A.b; my $a = A.new; $a.b = 1; say $a.b # why?
23:17 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«42␤Cannot resolve caller b(A: ); none of these signatures match:␤    (Mu:U $: *%_)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
23:18 SmokeMachine Shouldn't the . on $.b create the method for the instance?
23:20 brokenchicken SmokeMachine: I think it does that only if there ain't any other methods
23:21 brokenchicken m: multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $attr, :$c!) {$attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (::?CLASS:U:) {42})}; $attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:D:) is rw {$attr}) class A {has $.b is c}; say A.b; my $a = A.new; $a.b = 1; say $a.b # why?
23:21 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not locate compile-time value for symbol ::?CLASS␤»
23:21 brokenchicken m: multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $attr, :$c!) {$attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:U:) {42})}; $attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:D:) is rw {$attr}) class A {has $.b is c}; say A.b; my $a = A.new; $a.b = 1; say $a.b # why?
23:21 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$attr' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3multi_method("b", method (Mu:D:) is rw {7⏏5$attr}) class A {has $.b is c}; say A.b;␤»
23:22 brokenchicken wat
23:22 brokenchicken m: multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $attr, :$c!) {$attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:U:) {42}); $attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:D:) is rw {$attr});}; class A {has $.b is c}; say A.b; my $a = A.new; $a.b = 1; say $a.b # why?
23:22 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«42␤Cannot modify an immutable Attribute␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
23:22 brokenchicken something like that, I dunno what to use instead of $attr up in there. In normal code you'd use $!b in there
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23:23 brokenchicken m: multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $attr, :$c!) {$attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:U:) {42}); $attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:D:) is rw {::($attr.name)});}; class A {has $.b is c}; say A.b; my $a = A.new; $a.b = 1; say $a.b # why?
23:23 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«42␤No such symbol '$!b'␤  in method <anon> at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
23:23 brokenchicken ah right
23:25 brokenchicken m: use nqp; multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $attr, :$c!) {$attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:U:) {42}); $attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:D:) is rw {nqp::getattr($attr.package, $attr.package, $attr.name)});}; class A {has $.b is c}; say A.b; my $a = A.new; $a.b = 1; say $a.b # why?
23:25 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«42␤Cannot look up attributes in a A type object␤  in method <anon> at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
23:25 brokenchicken m: use nqp; multi trait_mod:<is>(Attribute $attr, :$c!) {$attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:U:) {42}); $attr.package.^add_multi_method("b", method (Mu:D:) is rw {nqp::getattr(self, self.WHAT, $attr.name)});}; class A {has $.b is c}; say A.b; my $a = A.new; $a.b = 1; say $a.b # why?
23:25 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«42␤1␤»
23:25 brokenchicken huzzah?
23:25 SmokeMachine \o/
23:26 SmokeMachine brokenchicken: thanks!
23:27 SmokeMachine But shouldn't be easier?
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