Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-01-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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02:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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05:08 samcv I am thinking of applying for a Perl 6 grant. Here is a rough draft I wrote of the proposal https://gist.github.com/samcv/ca70c21c73061f605bd5e7220c986b47
05:10 BenGoldberg s/determinalistic/deterministically/
05:11 samcv aside from spelling :P
05:12 samcv it's a very rough draft. so mostly concerned with content. and i wasn't totally sure what to put for "tell us about why you should work on this project"
05:12 samcv so that needs to be expanded
05:12 perlpilot samcv++
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05:13 TEttinger $30 an hour? for that price someone could hire... two burger flippers in NYC. you're a bargain
05:13 samcv i wasn't sure what price to put. i just put that for now
05:13 samcv i would like to hire 2 burger flippers though. in a month you could have a lot of burgers
05:13 perlpilot samcv: from what I remember, people usually figure the cost at $50/hour but ... everyone is different
05:13 samcv ## Benefits to Perl 6 Development: hundreds of burgers
05:14 samcv is it usually always 50/hr?
05:14 perlpilot I don't know about always, but that's the number I've often seen
05:14 samcv i will take 50/hr. i wasn't sure how to do it
05:14 samcv ok. also yeah i wanted input on that part too
05:15 BenGoldberg Write the $50 in the proposal, and hope for the best ;)
05:15 samcv heh
05:15 perlpilot 100 hours over 1 month?  Do you work or go to school or anything that could interfere with your time working on the proposal?
05:15 samcv no work or school
05:15 TEttinger it's not like a whole lot of people have a ton of unicode expertise and are available to work on perl6
05:15 samcv that is very true
05:16 samcv the 100 hours a month may change. but the 1 month = 100 hours
05:16 samcv was more like 100 hours to complete said task (maybe) but that was the main one i was going on
05:17 TEttinger you seem to know quite a bit about this stuff. QUICK WHAT'S THE FIRST CHARACTER IN THE Nd CATEGORY, LEXICOGRAPHICAL ORDER BY CODEPOINT
05:17 samcv how long for them to approve the grant?
05:17 samcv haha
05:17 TEttinger well, by typo I actually know this one
05:17 TEttinger 0
05:17 samcv yeah
05:17 perlpilot samcv: depends on how contentious it is I would imagine :)
05:17 TEttinger I think I meant Nl
05:18 samcv because in like 7 days i will be out for like 1 week to 2 weeksish
05:18 samcv well prolly out ~1week and then the week after that probably would be part time then after that should be full time
05:19 samcv also need to go through my commit history and get a better listing of what i've done. i just wrote some stuff off the top of my head
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05:20 samcv can i list as a deliverables to determine what Unicode 9.0 we do not support and make a very specific list to be complete at the end of the project. basically everything not specified as what i'm going to complete + figure out anything out not covered we don't know of yet
05:21 samcv also what we sort of know but it's not properly written down and looked into
05:21 perlpilot samcv: After the submission deadline, the grants are posted for public commentary for some amount of time (1-2 weeks I think), then they committee votes.  I'd figure they'd award by sometime in early Feb  (but I'm just guessing;  Coke would know truer things since he's on the committee)
05:21 samcv k
05:22 samcv ok that should work fine with my schedule
05:22 samcv also what about extending the grant? that can be done yes?
05:23 perlpilot you can always make another proposal to do more of the same :)
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05:26 perlpilot samcv: oh, and lizmat would make an excellent grant manager for you if she's willing
05:26 samcv great
05:27 perlpilot samcv: be sure to ask though.  She may have other suggestions too
05:27 samcv yeah
05:29 samcv i was going to say The goal of this project is to make Perl 6's Unicode support production ready.
05:29 samcv but that's kind of a loaded phrase. but i guess it's in benefits not deliverables
05:29 samcv so that may be fine
05:30 samcv though I suppose you could argue that the definition of production ready will be adding all the unicode tests and making the ones we do have + ones added also check robustness of concatenation and other things
05:30 samcv probably may take more than a month. will need to think about it and estimate for each subtask to get a better handle on it
05:31 perlpilot A minor thing about the wording of your deliverables ... don't say "needs to be"; say "will be"  :)
05:31 perlpilot or maybe "shall be" ;)
05:31 samcv also need to rework Full support for Unicode 9.0 will to be added section
05:32 samcv and say shall be added or in otherwise any section we do not implement should be thoroughly documented
05:32 samcv because it's almost as much work figuring out what we don't do than adding things in
05:33 samcv since it's a very big standard
05:33 perlpilot make that research one of your deliverables
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06:25 AlexDaniel oooh
06:25 AlexDaniel samcv++
06:26 AlexDaniel samcv: can I ask for RT #127047 and RT #127048 ? :)
06:26 samcv oh i mostly fixed that one (the 1st)
06:26 samcv but that is included
06:27 samcv yeah both are mostly fixed already but plan is to fix them all the rest of the way
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06:27 samcv allow the normalizer
06:27 samcv to save state across multiple characters to properly support Grapheme Breaking
06:27 samcv for all of Unicode 9.0.
06:28 samcv AlexDaniel, have you seen my newest MVM pr? https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/pull/497
06:28 samcv may be interested in it
06:29 samcv will also let you do like \c[ZWJ] for ZWJ and many other alias names (some of the aliases are for corrections)
06:29 samcv u: U+FE18
06:29 unicodable6 samcv, U+FE18 PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL RIGHT WHITE LENTICULAR BRAKCET [Pe] (︘)
06:29 samcv like that one.
06:29 samcv but idk why anybody would use that full name, but others are shorter and not spelling mistakes but like actual names being wrong
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06:30 AlexDaniel great
06:30 samcv :)
06:31 AlexDaniel samcv: anyway, your grant proposal makes me very happy
06:32 samcv yay!
06:32 AlexDaniel everything about it is so right :)
06:33 samcv AlexDaniel, is the deliverables section good:?
06:35 samcv though the only thing that scares me is Rewrite the Perl 5 script used to generate the Unicode database in Perl 6. This is also part of the previous item, since a rewrite is needed, it should be done in Perl 6 to help make it more maintainable.
06:35 samcv but i am going to make sure that is a good goal in the time before I officially submit the grant application
06:36 AlexDaniel I have no problem with it. Perhaps it can mention some big tickets if there are any?
06:36 samcv i mean problem for me!
06:36 samcv the rewriting it in perl 6. it's a huge script and all spaghetti-ish
06:37 samcv so basically will have to throw the whole thing out the window but replicate the functionality
06:40 AlexDaniel well, you'll manage I'm sure :)
06:41 AlexDaniel anyway, don't forget to mention it here when it's published :)
06:41 samcv kk :)
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06:41 samcv ah that script is 1900 lines long hahaha. well if i am getting paid to do it. I will muster the courage
06:42 samcv I basically know how everything in it works except for the bitfield compression
06:44 faraco A question, what makes Perl 6 more maintainable than Perl 5 + use strict in general ?
06:44 samcv i find what i write is about 1/2 the length. uhm it's more extendable, better introspection of objects
06:45 samcv uhm sub declarations are super nice too
06:45 samcv and not having to deal with references
06:45 faraco okay, not having to deal with reference is a game changer for me.
06:45 faraco thanks.
06:45 samcv at least for me it basically lets me program the program and less so trying to program squares to fit into rectangular holes
06:46 samcv all this filler code, that i guess sets up things for the next operation or function, processing the text, putting in a data structure etc, all things you have to think about
06:46 samcv but with perl 6 there's a lot less of that so it's much less work to add new things and refactor
06:46 faraco so, you got much more compact code in Perl 6 without trying.
06:46 faraco ?
06:46 samcv yeah
06:47 samcv i mean you get the most out of it if it's a straigth rewrite duplicating functionality than trying to like copy and paste it
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06:49 faraco :)
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09:39 cschwenz p6: multi sub foo() is tighter(&infix:«+>») { say "In foo()!"; }; foo();
09:39 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤No such method 'subst' for invocant of type 'Any'␤at <tmp>:1␤»
09:40 cschwenz hmm…  on perl6 2016.11 that gives the error "Routine given to tighter does not appear to be an operator"
09:41 cschwenz but here it is a different error
09:41 cschwenz :-(
09:41 cschwenz anyone here have suggestions on how to get this working?
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09:44 samcv bisectable6,  multi sub foo() is tighter(&infix:«+>») { say "In foo()!"; }; foo();
09:44 bisectable6 samcv, Bisecting by output (old=2015.12 new=8f3476d) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
09:44 bisectable6 samcv, bisect log: https://gist.github.com/c1c73607db089f203bcd3ff101a85082
09:44 bisectable6 samcv, (2017-01-09) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/caba0d346a1f3fd92084db93f226ee83f94f145e
09:45 samcv cschwenz, was it working before?
09:45 samcv and if so do you know around what time. or is it just asking to make something work right now
09:45 samcv and you have not used this before
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09:48 cschwenz dunno, this came up because i was trying to get a custom infix operator to work the way i wanted it to and i finally got past a previous blocking issue (i wanted to use "+>>" as my op but perl6 kept complaining, so i changed it to something else)
09:49 samcv cschwenz, maybe this will help? https://cry.nu/perl6/creating-your-own-operators-in-perl-6/
09:49 samcv ok does it work if you change it from +>?
09:49 cschwenz checking...
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09:51 cschwenz okay, so i changed from "multi sub infix:« +>@ »(Real $num, Iterable $rotate) is tighter(&infix:«+>») is export(:MANDATORY) returns Int {" to "multi sub infix:« +>@ »(Real $num, Iterable $rotate) is tighter(&infix:«+») is export(:MANDATORY) returns Int {" and that works
09:52 samcv ok then it's probably colliding with some other operator
09:52 samcv uhm show me it working with camelia cschwenz please
09:52 cschwenz but +> is a valid perl 6 core operator
09:52 cschwenz okay
09:53 moritz m: say 3 +> 4
09:53 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«0␤»
09:53 moritz m: say 3 +< 4
09:53 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«48␤»
09:54 cschwenz p6: multi sub infix:« +>@ »(Real $num, Iterable $rotate) is tighter(&infix:«+») is export(:MANDATORY) returns Int { say "foobar"; }; 123 +>@ (123, 456);
09:54 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«foobar␤»
09:54 cschwenz p6: multi sub infix:« +>@ »(Real $num, Iterable $rotate) is tighter(&infix:«+>») is export(:MANDATORY) returns Int { say "foobar"; }; 123 +>@ (123, 456);
09:54 camelia rakudo-moar 8f3476: OUTPUT«foobar␤»
09:54 cschwenz wat
09:55 cschwenz okay who does the homebrew keg for perl6?
09:55 cschwenz because it looks like that needs updating
09:56 samcv cschwenz, camelia uses the latest rakudo in git
09:56 samcv not the rakudo release
09:56 cschwenz :-(
09:56 samcv bisectable6, ulti sub infix:« +>@ »(Real $num, Iterable $rotate) is tighter(&infix:«+>») is export(:MANDATORY) returns Int { say "foobar"; }; 123 +>@ (123, 456);
09:56 bisectable6 samcv, Bisecting by output (old=2015.12 new=8f3476d) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
09:56 samcv bisectable6, multi sub infix:« +>@ »(Real $num, Iterable $rotate) is tighter(&infix:«+>») is export(:MANDATORY) returns Int { say "foobar"; }; 123 +>@ (123, 456);
09:56 samcv oopsie
09:57 bisectable6 samcv, bisect log: https://gist.github.com/132685b5657b29711632ec09fed01277
09:57 bisectable6 samcv, (2017-01-09) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/caba0d346a1f3fd92084db93f226ee83f94f145e
09:57 bisectable6 samcv, Bisecting by exit code (old=2015.12 new=8f3476d). Old exit code: 1
09:57 bisectable6 samcv, bisect log: https://gist.github.com/138529cc0e85ca3db9dbd2b3efb6f14d
09:57 bisectable6 samcv, (2017-01-09) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/caba0d346a1f3fd92084db93f226ee83f94f145e
09:57 samcv yeah ok so it was fixed 3 days ago!
09:57 samcv buggable, release
09:57 samcv buggable, help
09:57 buggable samcv, tags | tag SOMETAG | eco | eco Some search term | speed
09:57 samcv buggable,
09:58 samcv huggable, release
09:58 huggable samcv, nothing found
09:58 samcv huggable, help
09:58 huggable samcv, nothing found
09:58 samcv NeuralAnomaly, release
09:58 samcv if i just keep trying bots… heh
09:58 cschwenz :-P
09:59 samcv NeuralAnomaly, help
09:59 NeuralAnomaly samcv, stats | blockers
09:59 samcv NeuralAnomaly, stats
09:59 NeuralAnomaly samcv, [✘] Next release will be in 1 week and 2 days. Since last release, there are 81 new still-open tickets (1 unreviewed and 0 blockers) and 258 unreviewed commits. See http://perl6.fail/release/stats for details
09:59 samcv there we go!
10:00 samcv I <3 bisectable6
10:00 cschwenz cool :-)
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10:33 jnthn moritz: Please can I have an account on http://p6c.org/ (the www server)?
10:35 moritz jnthn: sure; please remind me in an hour or, I have an incident right now
10:35 moritz *or so
10:37 jnthn moritz: OK, will do; thanks :)
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11:14 moritz jnthn: passwort sent
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11:19 luna_ hi
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11:29 SmokeMachine Hi
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12:44 Ulti neat 10% speedup on my tests, now reliably 0.9s
12:44 Ulti possibly the metaop speedup as I use those quite a bit
12:45 Ulti whichever optimisation it was or the combo I'm guessing lizmat++  >:3
12:47 lizmat jnthn did quite some work on MoarVM that was merged yesterday
12:48 lizmat longer running programs should benefit from that mostly
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12:48 Ulti I have a lot of Z uses :)
12:49 Ulti in fact it does a couple of Z in a tight loop for most of that second
12:50 Ulti given 0.1s is startup which is fairly heavy thats how much compute you saved me :3
12:57 lizmat glad to hear that!  :-)
12:57 lizmat perhaps @perl6org twitter worthy ?  :-)
12:58 moritz Ulti: 10% speedup since when?
12:58 moritz last release? last few days?
12:59 lizmat Ulti: are those Z's or Zop's ?
13:00 Ulti moritz couple of days ago
13:00 DrForr I'll check here in a few minutes...
13:00 Ulti lizmat: Z=> most likely
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13:01 lizmat ah, yes, I special cased that as well  :-)
13:01 Ulti \o/
13:01 Ulti Z=> is one of my favourite perl6 doodads
13:01 moritz samcv: +1 to your grant proposal. I'd be willing to be your grant manager if you don't find anybody better suited :-)
13:02 Ulti just because its sort of like a visual icon of what its doing :)
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13:34 faraco hi, other than tldp[beginner-bash|advance-bash] books, which *free* resources helped you learn linux ecosystem and maybe even suit it with Perl 5/6 language.
13:35 faraco I like *man bash and info coreutils*, but I need more for me to go further.
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13:36 raschip "man bash" is in fact very bad documentation for anyone trying to learn shell. It's good documentation for anyone trying to implement a new shell, though.
13:36 DrForr faraco: There are a bunch of links for tutorials and introductions on perl6.org.
13:37 brokenchicken faraco: I kinda learned by brute force rather than studing copious resources.
13:37 brokenchicken (it's worth noting I have several destroyed systems under my belt as a result :P)
13:40 jnthn Yay, submitted PRs so now Archive::Libarchive is an easy install and passes tests on Windows. :)
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13:41 brokenchicken \o/
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13:42 faraco brokenchicken: man, I need to fire up chroot.
13:43 brokenchicken Ah, c'mon! It's very exciting to type rm -fr ~ and then accidentally hit ENTER instead of / and the rest of the path ;)
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13:48 faraco DrForr: hey thanks. Don't even know those links were exist.
13:49 DrForr No worries.
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14:33 AlexDaniel brokenchicken: it is way more interesting when you have done something similar to 「rm -rf ./」 at some point, and then weeks later you ctrl+r this command out of the history on accident
14:34 AlexDaniel and this could be anything! Like batch rename or whatever
14:34 brokenchicken :)
14:35 AlexDaniel nowadays I always ask myself before running anything “if I run this command in a random directory, will it screw things up?”. If yes, then I make it more specific so that it will error out
14:37 brokenchicken Well, I hope TPF won't think less of me if I use links to perl6.WTF in my proposal :}
14:37 AlexDaniel another grant proposal? \o/
14:37 * brokenchicken wishes it contained a more recent coverage report
14:38 mspo how many domains does perl6 have?
14:38 perlpilot_ It's funny but sad that some variant of this conversation on "rm -rf" has happened probably since rm was first invented.
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14:38 perlpilot_ brokenchicken: what's your proposal?
14:38 * brokenchicken is too self conscious to say :}
14:40 raschip People, at least alias rm to 'rm -I'. This should be the default, IMHO.
14:41 jdv79 wjat is perl6.wtf?
14:41 jdv79 looks like a useless report
14:41 moritz jdv79: it's zoffix's front end to RT and some other stuff
14:41 brokenchicken nah
14:42 moritz ah no, the coverage report
14:42 brokenchicken jdv79: it.s Perl 6's Wonderful Test Files. It's a coverage report, tho the report tool is currently busted so it's empty
14:42 jdv79 figures Str.pm has the most lines
14:42 brokenchicken You can still access last report via the bot tho
14:43 brokenchicken cover: &say, \("x")
14:43 Undercover brokenchicken, The code is hit during stresstest See http://perl6.WTF/src_core_io_operators.pm.coverage.html#L22 for details
14:43 jdv79 is there a user facong coverage tool yet?
14:43 brokenchicken no
14:43 jdv79 like devel::cover
14:44 mspo the first thing I put in .profile is unalias -a
14:44 mspo to remove all that linux junk
14:44 brokenchicken So far it's only a hard-to-use tool in a moarvm branch
14:44 jdv79 i never found it that practical though
14:44 raschip That's a very nice coverage report, never seen one like it. Which tool generates it?
14:44 brokenchicken There's an article on it: http://perl6.party/post/Perl-6-Core-Hacking-Can-Has-Moar-Cover
14:45 brokenchicken mspo: RE: domains. Dunno about perl6, but I own perl6.party, perl6.fail, and perl6.wtf :)
14:45 mspo brokenchicken: when you get burned out TNF can spend a bunch of money to reclaim them
14:46 brokenchicken TNF?
14:46 * moritz owns p6c.org
14:46 moritz and then there's perl6.org
14:46 moritz oh, and I own perl-6.de
14:46 mspo TPF
14:47 brokenchicken heh
14:47 moritz which is, like, totally outdated
14:47 mspo brokenchicken: I used to be on the board of directors for The NetBSD Foundation so "TNF" is in my muscle memory
14:47 brokenchicken mspo: oh and getperl6.com too
14:48 brokenchicken OTOH, it's supposed to renew tomorrow and I rather not renew it
14:48 mspo I found a lot of those .newtld's had stupid pricing
14:48 mspo $5 year 1, $40 year 2  (.io was like that anyway)
14:48 moritz some of them are quite expensive
14:48 brokenchicken a lot of them are pricey yeah
14:49 mspo I'm also letting a few domains go this year
14:49 * moritz preordered perl6.book, but doesn't know if he'll pay it if he gets them
14:51 raschip moritz: I think TimToady might want that one, don't let it go or a squatter might get it.
14:51 brokenchicken heh, well, looks like I'll remain the owner of getperl6.com for another year, it renewed today according to the cancelation form
14:52 brokenchicken yet not according to whois :(
14:52 * brokenchicken is being ripped off
14:52 mspo .com's are consistent, anyway
14:53 brokenchicken Is TimToady even writing a book?
14:53 perlpilot_ yes
14:53 mspo brokenchicken: it looks like you're getting private whois
14:53 brokenchicken :o
14:54 mspo Tech Name: Oneandone Private Registration
14:54 brokenchicken yup
14:54 mspo you normally pay extra for that
14:54 brokenchicken yup
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14:54 raschip ICANN has plans to end it, though. Private whois won't be anymore.
14:55 brokenchicken :(
14:55 DrForr There's Learning and Programming already being written.
14:55 pyrimidine joined #perl6
14:55 mspo raschip: really?
14:56 * mspo prepares more shell companies
14:56 brokenchicken :)
14:57 hoelzro joined #perl6
15:06 raschip Shell companies don't cover the requirements because the requirement is a for contacts of persons, not companies.
15:07 brokenchicken .oO( shell person of a shell company... )
15:07 raschip They see domains the same way qsls, which require one to publish even their address to have.
15:07 brokenchicken raschip: you have a robo message under raschi user, if you are the same person
15:08 raschi what, waht?
15:08 yoleaux 11 Jan 2017 20:03Z <brokenchicken> raschi: it was in #perl6-dev https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2017-01-10#i_13894263 RE: "do you have a link to the log where what motivated that commit happened?"
15:08 mspo how do they validate that I am who I say I am?
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15:09 mspo in the US a Doing-Business-As or a C-Corp are as good as people
15:09 raschi It's only validated if there's a dispute and ICANN needs a contact. If the contacts aren't valid, it's a violation of policy and the holding of the domain will be invalidated.
15:10 faraco joined #perl6
15:10 timotimo yeah, they hardly have time to vigorously check stuff up front
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15:10 raschi You can't really buy a domain, you can only lease it's use from ICANN, and it requires one to follow the UDRP, which is a contract that says it has to be a real person.
15:10 mspo raschi: I've done UDRP disputes before and "real person" wasn't really a thing
15:11 mspo so that would be a lot of new rules
15:11 raschi Like I said, they are starting to make policies about enforcement.
15:11 mspo especially since it's mostly lawyers doing them
15:12 tbrowder hi, any experts on use of Inline::Perl5 here that can help me with a type problem?
15:13 raschi ICANN wants to stop SPAM, and that requires someone to be criminally responsible for it.
15:14 raschi "crimminally" in the sense of internet crimes, not real crimes
15:14 tbrowder i'm trying to use p5's YAML module (only because p6 YAMLish is feature-limited at the moment)
15:14 mspo yeah we'll see
15:15 brokenchicken tbrowder: what if an non-expert knows the answer?
15:15 abraxxa joined #perl6
15:16 tbrowder well, if you know the answer then you are an expert from my view!
15:16 njmurphy joined #perl6
15:16 brokenchicken Well, there wasn't any question yet, and so no answer is possible.
15:16 tbrowder i'm loading a yaml file into a p6 scalar
15:17 tbrowder my $y = Load 'file'
15:18 tbrowder say $y.WHAT
15:18 pmurias raschi: internet crimes?
15:18 raschi like spam
15:18 tbrowder (Perl5Array)
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15:19 tbrowder i can deal with that after the fact, but i need to determine the type programmatically.
15:19 tbrowder this doesn't work:
15:20 tbrowder if $y ~~ Perl5Array
15:20 timotimo won't Perl5Array do Positional for you?
15:21 perlpilot_ tbrowder: if $y.^name eq 'Perl5Array' { ... }   # ?
15:22 tbrowder hm, not sure about Positional...need to read about tha
15:24 tbrowder perlpilot_: thanks!  (remind me why the ^ is needed, please)
15:24 timotimo i mean, would $y ~~ Positional work?
15:24 tbrowder timotmo: i'll try that, too, thanks
15:25 perlpilot_ tbrowder: $x.^foo is asking for the foo method on $x's meta-object.
15:25 tbrowder ah! thanks, ppilot!
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15:26 timotimo it will also be so kind and pass the object itself as the first argument to the meta-method
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15:29 perlpilot_ yeah,  $y.^name is like $y.HOW.name($y)
15:33 _4d47 Bag has 'hash' method but also respond to 'Hash', Hash is not documented, not in ^methods and can't find where it's implemented
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15:35 tbrowder perlpilot_: that works perfectly--thanks a heap!
15:35 perlpilot _4d47: probably in Any
15:37 _4d47 perlpilot: ok your right found it in Any, it just calls 'hash'
15:38 raschi Here is the report from the ICANN WG about what they are going to do about WHOIS: https://gnso.icann.org/en/issues/whois/thick-final-21oct13-en.pdf
15:38 brokenchicken from 4 years ago?
15:38 brokenchicken They don't seem to be in a rush :")
15:38 perlpilot _4d47: when you're trying to find where a method is implemented, you should probably walk up the inheritance hierarchy
15:38 perlpilot m: say Hash.^mro
15:38 camelia rakudo-moar 94acf2: OUTPUT«((Hash) (Map) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
15:39 brokenchicken m: Bag.new.^lookup("Hash").file.say
15:39 camelia rakudo-moar 94acf2: OUTPUT«SETTING::src/core/Any.pm␤»
15:39 brokenchicken oh heck, we even have a bot that can point to code
15:39 perlpilot _4d47: or use brokenchicken's tool  :-)
15:39 perlpilot brokenchicken++
15:39 brokenchicken s: Bag.new, 'Hash', \()
15:39 SourceBaby brokenchicken, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/94acf2f/src/core/Any.pm#L75
15:39 raschi "GNSO Adoption of the Final Report:  Adopted on: 21 January 2016  Resolved: The GNSO Council adopts, and recommends that the ICANN Board of Directors adopt, all the PPSAI PDP Working Group's final recommendations in the Final Report."
15:40 brokenchicken lulz, it's self.hash.Hash :P
15:40 brokenchicken s: Bag.new.hash, 'Hash', \()
15:40 SourceBaby brokenchicken, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/94acf2f/src/core/Hash.pm#L8
15:40 brokenchicken s: Bag.new, 'hash', \()
15:40 SourceBaby brokenchicken, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/94acf2f/src/core/Baggy.pm#L334
15:41 brokenchicken so basically in Bag .hash and .Hash are the same thing
15:41 raschi brokenchicken: And people continually complain ICANN moves too fast with these things.
15:41 _4d47 :s Bag.new, 'Hash'
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15:42 brokenchicken _4d47: I'd say it's Any.Hash that's not documented and once it is, it'd show up in Bag docs as well
15:42 brokenchicken you got the trigger backwards; it's s: not :s
15:43 _4d47 ok thx :)
15:43 _4d47 s: Bag.new, 'Hash', \()
15:43 SourceBaby _4d47, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/94acf2f/src/core/Any.pm#L75
15:43 _4d47 s: Bag.new, 'Hash'
15:43 SourceBaby _4d47, Something's wrong: ␤ERR: Type check failed in binding to &code; expected Callable but got Method+{<anon|68023856>} (Method+{<anon|6802385...)␤  in sub do-sourcery at /home/zoffix/services/lib/CoreHackers-Sourcery/lib/CoreHackers/Sourcery.pm6 (CoreHackers::Sourcery) line 42␤  in sub sourcery at /home/zoffix/services/lib/CoreHackers-Sourcery/lib/CoreHackers/Sourcery.pm6 (CoreHackers::Sourcery) line 33␤  in block <unit> at -e line
15:44 brokenchicken yeah, there's this bug in Rakudo where not all Callables do Callable role -_-
15:45 brokenchicken but see a few lines above, my invocations of the bot give all relevant URLs
15:45 _4d47 just curious why both hash and Hash? and I was under the assumption that methods that 'cast' where tc
15:55 timotimo hm. i thought of a good pun last night, but i forgot the framing :(
15:56 pyrimidine joined #perl6
15:57 brokenchicken Well, you MAST::Frame it right for it to be funny...
16:00 timotimo oh yes
16:00 timotimo here we go
16:01 timotimo i find it silly that you call it "toast". it sounds kind of like "could i have some bake with my cook?"
16:01 cibs joined #perl6
16:02 * brokenchicken doesn't get it...
16:02 timotimo "is this sit still free? a live of mine is going to come by later"
16:03 * brokenchicken doesn't get it...
16:03 timotimo OK
16:03 timotimo i'll head out to have dinner with friends
16:03 timotimo take care :)
16:04 timotimo i hope you'll get fixed soon
16:04 brokenchicken :)
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16:35 brokenchicken huggable: total commits :is: cd $(mktemp -d); perl6 -MJSON::Fast -MLWP::Simple -e 'run |<git clone --bare>, $_ for from-json(LWP::Simple.get("https://api.github.com/orgs/perl6/repos")).map(*.<git_url>); my $total; for dir(".") { my $n = run(:out, |<git --git-dir>, $_, |<rev-list HEAD --count --author=zoffix>).out.slurp-rest.trim.Int; say "$n commits in $_"; $total += $n;}; say "Total: $total"
16:35 huggable brokenchicken, Added total commits as cd $(mktemp -d); perl6 -MJSON::Fast -MLWP::Simple -e 'run |<git clone --bare>, $_ for from-json(LWP::Simple.get("https://api.github.com/orgs/perl6/repos")).map(*.<git_url>); my $total; for dir(".") { my $n = run(:out, |<git --git-dir>, $_, |<rev-list HEAD --count --author=zoffix>).out.slurp-rest.trim.Int; say "$n commits in $_"; $total += $n;}; say "Total: $total"
16:36 brokenchicken ^ how to find out how many commits you made to perl6 org
16:37 pyrimidine joined #perl6
16:37 perlpilot no, that's how to find out how many commits zoffix made  :)
16:37 brokenchicken well, yeah, you'd swap zoffix for your author
16:38 * brokenchicken is at 1,823 commits to perl6 org and 461 commits to rakudo
16:39 brokenchicken still a baby, compared to some other commiters :)
16:39 * brokenchicken is now known as babychicken
16:43 moritz brokenbabychicken?
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16:56 AlexDaniel brokenchicken: I think a final single quote is missing
16:56 dataf3l joined #perl6
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16:56 brokenchicken huggable: total commits :is: cd $(mktemp -d); perl6 -MJSON::Fast -MLWP::Simple -e 'run |<git clone --bare>, $_ for from-json(LWP::Simple.get("https://api.github.com/orgs/perl6/repos")).map(*.<git_url>); my $total; for dir(".") { my $n = run(:out, |<git --git-dir>, $_, |<rev-list HEAD --count --author=zoffix>).out.slurp-rest.trim.Int; say "$n commits in $_"; $total += $n;}; say "Total: $total"'
16:56 huggable brokenchicken, Added total commits as cd $(mktemp -d); perl6 -MJSON::Fast -MLWP::Simple -e 'run |<git clone --bare>, $_ for from-json(LWP::Simple.get("https://api.github.com/orgs/perl6/repos")).map(*.<git_url>); my $total; for dir(".") { my $n = run(:out, |<git --git-dir>, $_, |<rev-list HEAD --count --author=zoffix>).out.slurp-rest.trim.Int; say "$n commits in $_"; $total += $n;}; say "Total: $total"'
16:56 brokenchicken Thanks
16:59 * [Coke] puts "update his resume" on the short term list.
16:59 brokenchicken Why?
16:59 TimToady hoping to get a job with the Trump administration?
17:00 brokenchicken heh
17:01 dataf3l joined #perl6
17:03 [Coke] TimToady: I mean, we don't know each other well, but... no. :P
17:04 dataf3l joined #perl6
17:04 [Coke] it's complicated, but in the general realm of mergers/acquisitions/outsourcing.
17:04 pyrimidine joined #perl6
17:05 AlexDaniel brokenchicken: it takes quite some time to get the stuff cloned… perhaps statisfiable should learn it
17:06 dataf3l Hey Guys
17:06 TimToady [Coke]: I understand, having been acquired more times than is strictly necessary in one lifetime...
17:06 dataf3l is there a callback graphviz thingie for Perl6 like this one?
17:06 dataf3l https://github.com/TrueFurby/go-callvis
17:06 dataf3l if not, is it easy to create one?
17:07 [Coke] TimToady: It's kind of nifty that it's an article in the WSJ. :)
17:07 cpage__ joined #perl6
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18:10 brokenchicken What is CORE:: called? namespace?
18:10 brokenchicken "All routines and objects in CORE:: $what"
18:10 brokenchicken $what = ?
18:11 TimToady it's a lexical scope in p6
18:11 brokenchicken Thanks.
18:14 dataf3l joined #perl6
18:15 TimToady m: say SETTING::OUTER === CORE
18:15 camelia rakudo-moar 94acf2: OUTPUT«False␤»
18:15 TimToady that really oughta be True for the restricted setting...
18:18 kyan joined #perl6
18:19 TimToady m: say SETTING::OUTER::<pi> === CORE::<pi>
18:19 camelia rakudo-moar 94acf2: OUTPUT«False␤»
18:19 TimToady m: say SETTING::OUTER::OUTER::<pi> === CORE::<pi>
18:19 camelia rakudo-moar 94acf2: OUTPUT«True␤»
18:19 dataf3l joined #perl6
18:19 TimToady huh, I wonder why there's a double OUTER there...
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18:43 brokenchicken hah, now I finally get why some docs in Rakudo deliniate URLs with angled brackets.... It's how `perldoc` renders URLs!
18:45 geekosaur there's actually an rfc for that, it's recommended as a delimiter (e.g. "is the dot at the end an end of sentence, or part of the URL?")
18:47 wamba joined #perl6
18:47 brokenchicken Ah :D
18:47 labster joined #perl6
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19:21 [Coke] (docs) any feedback on my low-priority PR?
19:25 shayan_ joined #perl6
19:32 brokenchicken What's the PR?
19:40 nicq20 joined #perl6
19:42 nicq20 Where does rakudo look for modules when you say `use Foo:Bar`?
19:44 brokenchicken In one of Comp::Unit::Repository'ies... don't know more than that...
19:44 zakharyas joined #perl6
19:45 brokenchicken if you do use Blah::Blah it'll tell you where it tried to find it in
19:46 nicq20 brokenchicken: Thank you! Also found this: https://docs.perl6.org/language/5to6-perlvar (find @INC).
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19:53 RabidGravy m: say $*REPO.repo-chain.grep({ $_.can("prefix")})>>.prefix
19:53 camelia rakudo-moar 94acf2: OUTPUT«("/home/camelia/.perl6".IO "/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site".IO "/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/vendor".IO "/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6".IO)␤»
19:54 nicq20 I can't seem to get Git::Wrapper to install properly. If someone can, try to install it through zef/panda. I want to check if it's just me.
19:55 brokenchicken ===SORRY!===
19:55 brokenchicken Could not find Git::Log::Parser at line 2 in:
19:55 nicq20 Ok, same here. Not just me then.
19:56 brokenchicken I see the issue. PR Incoming
19:56 nicq20 What is it?
19:56 moritz something missing from META6.json?
19:59 brokenchicken nicq20: you can git clone the fork and `zef install .` or `panda install .` from that clone: https://github.com/perlpilot/p6-Git-Wrapper/pull/2
19:59 brokenchicken nicq20: or ping perlpilot to merge it :)
19:59 brokenchicken Untested, but I'm 99.99% sure that fixes the issue.
20:00 moritz wow, just one expected failure in 10k attempts is a crazy level of certainty!
20:01 brokenchicken Yup :) I'm failiry suire
20:04 nicq20 Hmm... Zef seems to die when doing that.
20:04 brokenchicken there goes that one failure! :D
20:04 nicq20 uninitialized value $_ of type Any in string context.
20:04 brokenchicken k, lemme clone this thing and do it right
20:04 nicq20 Zef::Distribution::Local) line 14
20:04 nicq20 brokenchicken: I think it's my end. :/
20:05 pyrimidine joined #perl6
20:06 brokenchicken hm... git clone https://github.com/perlpilot/p6-Git-Wrapper; edit META.info to stick this into it https://raw.githubusercontent.com/zoffixznet/p6-Git-Wrapper/936fbfec6b25bdef29abdf2d50f13277c459d6d4/META.info; zef install .; gives me "===> Install [OK] for Git::Wrapper:ver('0.0.1')"
20:06 brokenchicken This is Rakudo version 2016.12-250-g9052427 built on MoarVM version 2016.12-71-g331a6b4
20:07 ssotka joined #perl6
20:07 nicq20 Going to try and update zef then.
20:15 labster joined #perl6
20:16 perlpilot brokenchicken++
20:16 perlpilot nicq20: that PR is merged btw
20:17 nicq20 Ok, thank you! :D
20:17 brokenchicken (prolly'll take a bit for the change to propagate to All Things that keep track of modules)
20:18 brokenchicken and once that happens zef update (or panda update) is needed
20:19 RabidGravy "X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication"
20:21 mspo RabidGravy: xauth merge
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21:05 ufobat i am happy - my xpath implementation slowly grows and works :-) https://github.com/ufobat/p6-XML-XPath
21:11 brokenchicken ufobat++ \o/
21:17 shayan_ joined #perl6
21:23 RabidGravy cool
21:24 cdg joined #perl6
21:24 tadzik yay!
21:25 AlexDaniel ok, 18 MB left
21:25 AlexDaniel time to do something
21:29 AlexDaniel 37G.xsession-errors
21:29 AlexDaniel ahhaaaa
21:29 El_Che whuut
21:29 geekosaur remember you need to restart the session to get rid of that
21:29 AlexDaniel yes, a 37GB error file!
21:30 lizmat go for it!   :-)
21:31 tadzik oh wtf
21:31 AlexDaniel geekosaur: but what if I don't want to…
21:31 tadzik what's in there!?
21:31 El_Che AlexDaniel: compress it
21:31 El_Che AlexDaniel: bzip2 or something efficient
21:32 AlexDaniel why not just delete it, uh?
21:32 El_Che AlexDaniel: who else has a 37gb error file?
21:32 pyrimidine joined #perl6
21:32 geekosaur because it's open in every X11 application, deleting it removes the name and leaves the data until all programs that have it open exit
21:32 El_Che looks lik a accomplishment :)
21:33 El_Che ">.xsession-errors" would empty it
21:33 geekosaur no
21:33 AlexDaniel some kind of an error related to a firefox addon I'm using
21:33 AlexDaniel repeated thousands of times
21:33 geekosaur or rather, only temporarily
21:34 El_Che while :; do > .xsession-errors; sleep 1; done
21:34 El_Che :)
21:34 bjz joined #perl6
21:34 El_Che > .xsession-errors; chattr +i .xsession-errors
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21:35 geekosaur sigh,
21:35 geekosaur ok, please cargo cult to your hearts' content
21:35 tadzik quickly remove it and symlink to /dev/null? :)
21:36 El_Che rm .xsession-errors; ln -s /dev/null .xsession-errors
21:36 El_Che I can go cargo culting all night :)
21:36 El_Che tadzik: gmta :)
21:37 tadzik :)
21:37 Ven joined #perl6
21:39 AlexDaniel ok then…
21:40 El_Che sudo mount -t tmpfs -o size=1m tmpfs /mnt; rm .xsession-errors; touch /mnt/.xsession-errors; ln -s /mnt/.xsession-errors
21:40 El_Che more farfetched :)
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21:43 pmurias ggoebel: hmm, when is bigint being installed?
21:44 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
21:45 geekosaur the most fun part of that mess is that the simplistic :> solution will look like it worked, but the next error message output will result in a 37GB sparse file
21:45 El_Che magic is fun
21:46 AlexDaniel that's ok, occasional reboots are fine
21:46 AlexDaniel 28 days of uptime… it's good that things like that make me reboot sometimes
21:47 AlexDaniel imagine rebooting once a year… who knows what's going to happen, right? :)
21:47 * geekosaur is due for a reboot as well, random memory leaks have the system pushing 50% swap usage
21:47 Technaton El_Che: You don't want to actually use that temporary mountpoint: If its full, there will be alot of error messages littering your X seesion.
21:48 geekosaur (which is better than when I got this machine, prebuilt with linux but someone botched creation of the swap partition so when it went over 5% used it overwrote the next filesystem on the disk. luckily that was being used as scratch space...)
21:48 Technaton geekosaur: AFAIR, you can either employ logrotate or disable .xsession-errors completely by changing /etc/X11/Xsession to contain "exec >> /dev/null 2>&1".
21:48 geekosaur depends on the distribution
21:49 Technaton Uh-oh.
21:49 geekosaur some of them use systemd/journalctl. not sure what the mint install I have is using but they actually clamp .xsession-errors size somehow
21:49 Technaton Argh yes, the finer details of systemd...
21:50 geekosaur also the >> there is useless, write and append are the same thing on /dev/null :)
21:53 El_Che Technaton: I was under the impression the messages would be lost
21:53 AlexDaniel geekosaur: ah, just realized. “why not just delete it” was a response to “compress it”
21:54 geekosaur and logrotate doesn't work for this becauseyou can't force every running X app to reopen its stderr
21:54 geekosaur so they keep logging to the old one
21:54 Technaton El_Che: 'No sufficient space' is an error return code, that probably bubbels up. :/
21:54 Technaton s/,//
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22:24 samcv what is the way to do grapheme based regex?
22:24 samcv i know ignoremark, but that ignores marks, what if you want to substitute marks in some text, what option do you use?
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22:29 AlexDaniel samcv: wow, what a lovely question
22:29 AlexDaniel indeed, how?
22:29 AlexDaniel like, you can always work on NFDs, but…
22:29 samcv i think i remember reading in a Synopsis that there was a way to do it
22:29 AlexDaniel m: say ‘hëllo’.NFD.list ~~ (**, ‘e’.ord, **)
22:29 camelia rakudo-moar c301b0: OUTPUT«True␤»
22:29 AlexDaniel this doesn't really help
22:30 samcv uh. hahaha
22:30 samcv well. what if you don't want to work on NFD. like uh
22:30 AlexDaniel well, if you don't want to work on NFD then it probably doesn't really make sense
22:31 AlexDaniel the problem is more that we don't have .tr or .subst or something like that for Uni
22:31 samcv m: my $var = "\c[family: man, boy]"; $var ~~ s/\c[BOY]//
22:31 camelia rakudo-moar 077a75: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unrecognized character name family: man␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $var = "\c[family: man7⏏5, boy]"; $var ~~ s/\c[BOY]//␤»
22:31 samcv ah i know why that dosen't work
22:32 samcv because of the comma. and that denotes multiple characters hmm
22:32 AlexDaniel for example, let's say you have ë and @̈, what would “substitute marks” mean in this case?
22:32 samcv will have to remove those commas! since they shouldn't be significant
22:32 samcv well. they are significant and denote multiple things in the official notation we use (not just perl 6's)
22:33 samcv so ignoremark uses NFD?
22:33 samcv i guess that makes sense
22:34 samcv also who is this guy named Mark and why do we want to ignore him
22:34 samcv not nice
22:34 perigrin he's my brother, feel free to ignore him.
22:35 perigrin He's a scrum master, he's used to it.
22:35 AlexDaniel we still have no way to say “replace E with Z no matter what mark it has” I think
22:35 AlexDaniel unless you want to process lists…
22:35 samcv yeah we need that
22:36 AlexDaniel in fact, can we even match ‘e’ in a regex with this kind of logic?
22:36 newbie1 joined #perl6
22:36 samcv well if the e has marks on it
22:36 AlexDaniel without doing something like <?{ $0[*-1].Str.samemark(‘a’).fc eq ‘e’.fc  }>
22:37 samcv so i tried it and I think the emoji base characters can be replaced with ignoremark but not others
22:37 samcv mostly sure
22:37 samcv though it may result in some oddness
22:37 samcv also it may not work with Extend characters
22:37 samcv since they go [extend] + [base]
22:37 samcv new in unicode 9.0
22:37 samcv i added support for that but haven't tested with ignoremark or other things.
22:39 samcv it says in the synopsis it ignores Mark. and Mark is a unicode property i'm almost certain is equivilant to Grapheme_Cluster_Break=Extend
22:40 samcv u: { .uniprop('Mark') }
22:40 unicodable6 samcv, U+0300 COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT [Mn] (◌̀)
22:40 unicodable6 samcv, U+0301 COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT [Mn] (◌́)
22:40 unicodable6 samcv, https://gist.github.com/c8356cdfbaf54b4d23e4db244b908dda
22:40 samcv u: { .uniprop('Mark') and .uniprop('GCB') ne 'Extend' }
22:41 unicodable6 samcv, U+0903 DEVANAGARI SIGN VISARGA [Mc] (◌ः)
22:41 unicodable6 samcv, U+093B DEVANAGARI VOWEL SIGN OOE [Mc] (◌ऻ)
22:41 unicodable6 samcv, https://gist.github.com/dcf2f7c182df3b8a6900c78deb0fb53d
22:41 samcv m: 0xA8C1.uniprop('GCB').say
22:41 camelia rakudo-moar 077a75: OUTPUT«SpacingMark␤»
22:41 samcv ah kk. yep they have special GCB properties
22:42 samcv and it doesn't include the Extend characters
22:42 samcv u: { .uniprop('GCB') eq 'Extend' }
22:43 unicodable6 samcv, U+0300 COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT [Mn] (◌̀)
22:43 unicodable6 samcv, U+0301 COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT [Mn] (◌́)
22:43 unicodable6 samcv, https://gist.github.com/2bc840c2788bbbccb452aed693529de0
22:43 brokenchicken m: s:ignoremark/e/z/ and .say given $ = "e\x[308]"
22:43 camelia rakudo-moar 077a75: OUTPUT«z␤»
22:43 samcv i've been working on improving the speed somewhat of the grapheme breaking code to use the GCB property instead of checking multiple other properties. Except when needed, ideally we can make checking that property the fastest and optimize it
22:43 brokenchicken m: s:samemark/e/z/ and .say given $ = "e\x[308]"
22:43 camelia rakudo-moar 077a75: OUTPUT«z̈␤»
22:44 samcv since it is used more than any other
22:44 AlexDaniel brokenchicken: right!!
22:44 Ven joined #perl6
22:44 samcv err i meant Prepend up there
22:45 samcv <samcv> and it doesn't include the Extend characters # should have been Prepend
22:45 samcv u: { .uniprop('GCB') eq 'Prepend' }
22:45 AlexDaniel so we in fact can do that kind of stuff! Cool!
22:45 _Vasyl joined #perl6
22:45 unicodable6 samcv, U+0600 ARABIC NUMBER SIGN [Cf] (؀)
22:45 unicodable6 samcv, U+0601 ARABIC SIGN SANAH [Cf] (؁)
22:45 unicodable6 samcv, https://gist.github.com/4ce08721682af2940bce415d52e7af3c
22:46 samcv m: "\c[ARABIC NUMBER SIGN]9".chars.say
22:46 camelia rakudo-moar 077a75: OUTPUT«1␤»
22:46 samcv yeah i knew i fixed that. was broken for a while
22:46 samcv until fairly recently
22:46 brokenchicken m: "\c[ARABIC NUMBER SIGN]9".say
22:46 camelia rakudo-moar 077a75: OUTPUT«؀9␤»
22:46 brokenchicken m: "\c[ARABIC NUMBER SIGN]9".Int.say
22:46 camelia rakudo-moar 077a75: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5؀9' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
22:46 AlexDaniel hmhm somebody keeps adding doc labels :o
22:47 samcv m: my $var = "\c[ARABIC NUMBER SIGN]9"; say $var ~~ s:ignoremark/9/3/
22:47 camelia rakudo-moar 077a75: OUTPUT«False␤»
22:47 samcv yeah it be broke
22:47 brokenchicken AlexDaniel: heh, there's a GitHub hook Geth could sub to to tell you who :)
22:47 samcv AlexDaniel, like labels for bugs?
22:47 AlexDaniel yea
22:48 samcv heh
22:48 samcv will add that to my list of unicode thinks to investigate
22:49 AlexDaniel duplicate, experimental, external, POD, meta…
22:49 samcv the extend one. i already knew it was untested except grapheme break. heh hence my grant proposal. have been thinking about maybe making one, but now i feel comfortable knowing the scope of the project
22:49 AlexDaniel all these don't have many tickets attached to them and were added for no good reason I believe
22:49 AlexDaniel there was a time when we had a ton of doc labels
22:49 AlexDaniel and all of them were thrown away because they were so useless
22:50 AlexDaniel in the end it was decided to keep it very simple and so we got 「site」 「docs」 「build」 and 「search」
22:50 samcv ah kk
22:51 AlexDaniel 4 labels enough to sort stuff into main categories, but not enough to be more specific (but who said that we want to be very specific?)
22:52 AlexDaniel I think this was even documented somewhere…
22:53 AlexDaniel and now we have a ton of labels and again it's not clear what they are for
22:53 AlexDaniel what's a 「wishlist」? Isn't this whole bug tracker a wishlist?
22:54 samcv yeah i guess so
22:58 AlexDaniel m: { m/<:M>/ }
22:58 camelia rakudo-moar 077a75: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context.␤Methods .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can be used to stringify it to something meaningful.␤  in block  at <tmp> line 1␤»
22:58 AlexDaniel oops
22:58 AlexDaniel u: { m/<:M>/ }
22:58 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, «timed out after 30 seconds, output»:  «exit signal = SIGHUP (1)»
22:59 AlexDaniel well, thank you very much, slowpoke
22:59 AlexDaniel u: { .chr ~~ /<:M>/ }
22:59 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+0300 COMBINING GRAVE ACCENT [Mn] (◌̀)
22:59 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+0301 COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT [Mn] (◌́)
22:59 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/8d3f0ae42910a43d043f887e65fcc33d
23:02 AlexDaniel anyway, brokenchicken++ ( https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1133 )
23:02 samcv AlexDaniel++ your doc ticket
23:02 brokenchicken That sounds like it can be subsumed under https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/919
23:03 brokenchicken like there should be just one place that documents all of these adverbs as they're (mostly) shared between rx//, m//, s///, S///, .match, .subst, and .subst-mutate
23:03 AlexDaniel could be
23:04 Ven joined #perl6
23:04 shayan_ joined #perl6
23:05 samcv brokenchicken, any atom-language-perl6 bugs not fixed yet you've noticed
23:05 cpage_ joined #perl6
23:05 samcv fixing proto method/sub now
23:06 brokenchicken samcv: nope. I've been taking a break from P6
23:06 samcv kk
23:06 brokenchicken Playing Dying Light :)
23:11 pyrimidine joined #perl6
23:16 cale2 joined #perl6
23:16 cale2 hey all
23:18 samcv hi
23:21 cale2 why do people say that perl6 is "the future"? Is it mainly because of the grammars?
23:22 cale2 I'm just thinking, if you like dynamic languages, why wouldn't something like Elixir be "the future"? With pattern matching and stuff
23:22 samcv I have never used Elixer, what type of pattern matching?
23:24 Ven joined #perl6
23:24 cale2 def matcher(""), do: :nothing
23:24 cale2 def matcher(str), do: :something
23:24 samcv so it does something if it matches?
23:24 cale2 match on variables as parameters
23:24 cale2 match in case statements like
23:24 samcv match the variable name?
23:24 brokenchicken cale2: yeah, we have that too
23:25 samcv i'm not sure what you mean match on variables, we can match on variables
23:25 cale2 brokenchicken: I know perl6 has gradual typing and you can do multiple dispatch, but I think it's a bit different, right?
23:25 brokenchicken cale2: why not ask people who say perl6 is the future about why they say that? :) I suspect there are many personal reasons involved as well.
23:26 cale2 brokenchicken: that's exactly what I'm doing :)
23:26 cale2 I want to know
23:26 brokenchicken haha :)
23:27 brokenchicken Well, sane concurrency (and as I recall Exlixir rocks there too); superb unicode support (which will soon become even awesome); to my limited knowledge only Swift is on similar level.
23:27 pyrimidine joined #perl6
23:27 brokenchicken My personal reason is the language fits my brain and I like the community. I heard good things about Elixir, but never had a chance to give it a spin.
23:27 cale2 I think Elixir, swift, and perl6 all have similar unicode support
23:27 brokenchicken cool
23:28 cale2 What are some things that are on the roadmap for perl6? I was just reading about MoarVM for example, and it looks like there is still a lot of work to be done there
23:28 brokenchicken Oh yeah, there's still tons of work to do. First stable release was just a year ago.
23:29 brokenchicken I think the current roadmap is largely focused on improving stability and performance.
23:29 brokenchicken My personal goal is to improve the test coverage.
23:30 cale2 brokenchicken: Is there a guide to the perl6 architecture? I'm confused about why it's a good idea to make NQP, Rakudo, and Perl6 all different things
23:30 brokenchicken cale2: we have a marketing brochure that's handed out at events. Perhaps it'll be helpful to you: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/919
23:30 samcv wait is that the right link...
23:30 brokenchicken oops nope.
23:30 brokenchicken My copy-paste is broken again
23:30 samcv cale2, also see speed test over time http://tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html
23:30 samcv so improvement is occuring pretty fast
23:31 brokenchicken I'm glad previous buffer didn't have anything embarasing :P
23:31 brokenchicken cale2: this is the brochure I meant: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/blob/master/Brochures/Perl6-PR-Brochure/Perl6-PR-Brochure.pdf
23:31 samcv heh
23:31 samcv that is a great brochure.
23:32 chaceface joined #perl6
23:32 cale2 In regards to the whole P6 world though, why make NQP, Rakudo, and Perl6 all different things?
23:32 chaceface hi all. is there an easy way to see all declared lexicals?
23:34 brokenchicken cale2: Perl 6 is the language. It's just the specification that defines what that language is (by comparison, think C language). Rakudo is a compiler for it (think, gcc); althought it's the most developed it doesn't have to be the only one. Perl 6 is a pretty big language. It'd be hard to optimize it, so there's a Perl 6 subset, the NQP (which is also a compiler-writing toolchain). So we write Rakudo using NQP
23:34 brokenchicken and Perl 6. And the last bits of the puzzle are the backends. Currently, most developed is MoarVM, behind it is JVM, and further behind is JavaScript backened. That basically lets you run code compiled by Rakudo on any of the backends you like the most.
23:34 brokenchicken m: my $foo; say MY::.keys
23:34 camelia rakudo-moar f10b09: OUTPUT«($=pod $foo !UNIT_MARKER EXPORT $_ $! ::?PACKAGE GLOBALish $¢ $=finish $/ $?PACKAGE)␤»
23:34 brokenchicken chaceface: ^ prolly that. keys are names and values are things themselves IIRC
23:35 chaceface > MY::.keys ($=pod !UNIT_MARKER $_ EXPORT ::?PACKAGE GLOBALish $?PACKAGE)
23:35 chaceface i'm certainly getting that, but i have @data and a couple others declared in the shell
23:36 brokenchicken m: my $foo; my @data; say MY::.keys
23:36 camelia rakudo-moar f10b09: OUTPUT«($=pod $foo !UNIT_MARKER EXPORT $_ $! @data ::?PACKAGE GLOBALish $¢ $=finish $/ $?PACKAGE)␤»
23:36 brokenchicken shows up here. What you mean by the shell? The REPL?
23:36 chaceface yeah the REPL
23:36 brokenchicken hm, yeah, I see those are missin' from it
23:36 chaceface thanks, broken
23:36 cale2 "Perl 6 is a pretty big language. It'd be hard to optimize it, so there's a Perl 6 subset, the NQP" My thought on that is, why design a language that is so incredibly difficult to write a compiler for? The chances of another compiler getting up and going are slim to none, right?
23:38 brokenchicken chaceface: not sure how to get it to output in the REPL to. Maybe try some of the other MY::-like things? They're documented here: https://docs.perl6.org/language/packages#index-entry-MY_%28package%29
23:38 chaceface awesome. that's a good start. thank broken!
23:40 brokenchicken cale2: on the website, I see there have been 5 other compilers in the past. At a time, some of them were being developed simultaneously. As to why design... well, why not? :)
23:40 brokenchicken cale2: I'm not the best person to give a more detailed answer, as I've not participated in that process :)
23:41 cale2 So, PUGS for example, did not need NQP to work?
23:42 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
23:42 brokenchicken No idea. But I see nqp repo was created in 2009, so I guess some compilers didn't need it.
23:42 brokenchicken (design first started in 2001 or something along those lines).
23:43 brokenchicken I'd guess this wasn't made hard just for the sake of being hard, but because there was some benefit from it.
23:43 Ven joined #perl6
23:44 * brokenchicken leaves to murder zombies
23:45 pyrimidine joined #perl6
23:46 Ben_Goldberg joined #perl6
23:52 TEttinger cale2: lots of other languages use a subset at some point for bootstrapping
23:53 TEttinger Haskell, in some versions of some compilers, would compile to a subset of C called C--
23:54 pecastro joined #perl6
23:54 TEttinger pretty much any bootstrapped language needs an initial smaller version of the language before it can run itself
23:56 b2gills The Perl 6 project started as a way to move forward in new directions without having to maintain backwards compatibility.
23:56 b2gills In the mean time ideas from other programming languages "crept" in, and now we have Perl 6.
23:57 dugword joined #perl6

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