Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-02-10

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:29 timotimo https://github.com/timo/SDL2_Raw-p6 - added screenshots of example code into the readme :)
00:29 timotimo (and also, the readme is completely new)
00:30 IOninja \o/
00:30 IOninja lookin' sweet
00:32 timotimo a little bit :3
00:35 timotimo i took extra care to make the screenshots as tiny as they can get
00:36 timotimo it would have been better if the window didn't have an icon, or if the upper-right controls didn't have a gradient to them
00:36 timotimo OSLT
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00:53 timotimo tony-o: are you the right person to ask about modules.zef.pm, or is it ugexe?
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00:58 timotimo ah!
00:58 timotimo i didn't notice the big "About" button at the top
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01:01 tony-o i'd be the guy
01:01 tony-o timotimo: what's up?
01:03 timotimo submitted all the issues just now :)
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01:07 timotimo i think i'm done with uploading issues for now
01:07 tony-o timotimo++
01:07 tony-o i'll take a look later tonight or tomorrow
01:07 timotimo cool
01:08 tony-o glad to know someone is using modules.zef.pm aside from me
01:08 timotimo right now you can put XSS onto modules.zef.pm, but the site isn't security-critical, so ... :)
01:09 tony-o XSS?
01:10 tony-o oh it's getting a lot of traffic apparently, i haven't looked at the traffic in a few months
01:10 timotimo someone on hackernews linked to it from the perl6 thread
01:10 timotimo well, i can put random html into my code and when somebody browses my code, their browser will execute that html
01:11 timotimo do you have some kind of monitoring up where i could look at your stats? like a collectd-web or munin or something?
01:11 timotimo i haven't looked at collect.p6c.org in a while :(
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01:14 jpl_ hey guys it's jeff
01:14 jpl_ gotta find a handle that fits
01:15 timotimo o/
01:16 timotimo what is it that you need a handle on?
01:16 jpl_ so I told some people about perl6 they were interested
01:16 jpl_ irc
01:16 jpl_ jeffythedragonslayer doesn't fit
01:16 timotimo oh, i see
01:16 timotimo jeffyslaysdragons
01:16 timotimo what's the limit on freenode anyway?
01:17 jpl_ it cut me off at jeffythedragonsl
01:17 timotimo then it'd cut the s at the end of my suggestion
01:17 jpl_ sl is steam locomotive when you type ls backwards
01:17 timotimo yes! :D
01:18 jpl_ if I'm ever in an action movie there needs to be a scene when I'm riding a dragon and jump off onto moving train
01:18 timotimo hm, a train heist?
01:18 jpl_ lol
01:18 geekosaur yes, 16 is the limit. also limited character set
01:19 TimToady drat, was gonna go for jeffy殺龍
01:19 jpl_ that works :)
01:20 jpl_ when I worked at jpl people thought I had stolen a laptop because my bash prompt was my username: jpl
01:21 timotimo you worked at the jet propulsion laboratory?
01:21 TimToady wow!
01:21 jpl_ just an intern
01:21 timotimo pretty cool
01:21 geekosaur otoh an other channel I'm in has a MarvinPA (as abbrev for "the Paranoid Android")
01:21 * TimToady was just an extern :)
01:22 timotimo heh
01:22 hobbs but not a volatile
01:22 TimToady JPL's a cool place, you could go to lectures by visiting guests every day and never get a lick of work done...
01:22 timotimo jffydrgnslr
01:22 jpl_ they should add an extern "TimToady" to embed perl code in C++
01:23 * TimToady also saw Maggie Thatcher at JPL
01:23 timotimo the thatcher that's known for destroying all the infrastructure of great britain?
01:23 jpl_ that's pretty cool
01:23 TimToady well, they didn't let her talk, it was just a walk-through :)
01:24 timotimo OK
01:24 jpl_ I saw Bill Nye in pasadena give a speech
01:25 TimToady I think Bill Nye wasn't even born yet when I was there :P
01:26 TimToady actually, he's only a year younger than me :)
01:27 jpl_ TimToady: I honestly thought maybe you weren't developing perl anymore when I came across your website a couple years ago
01:28 TimToady it's a bit out of date, but I've been too busy developing perl to update it :)
01:29 jpl_ oh don't get me wrong I love the bare html look
01:30 jpl_ I just saw http://wall.org/~larry/perl.html wasn't found and thought you weren't working on it
01:34 tony-o timotimo: i have google analytics, i can add you to the site if you'd like
01:35 tony-o timotimo: i have no idea what i would do with the info
01:36 timotimo oh, cool
01:36 timotimo i also have no idea :)
01:36 timotimo but i do like to look at graphs for 10 seconds and then forget i ever did
01:37 tony-o 19:54 < ugexe> yeah probably needs to be setup eventually
01:37 tony-o oops
01:38 tony-o http://i.imgur.com/RfMDfNs.png
01:39 timotimo interesting, 3 japanese sessions were counted
01:39 tony-o strangely i have a lot of japanese/korean followers on social media
01:39 jpl_ japanese was actually the first foreign language I got interested in
01:40 jpl_ cause I'm a weeaboo
01:40 timotimo that's fine
01:40 tony-o i don't know any japanese or korean
01:40 tony-o and the german has gone by the wayside because there aren't many in california
01:40 jpl_ well you start with my name 殺龍
01:41 hobbs tony-o: move to Texas ;)
01:41 tony-o no thanks
01:41 tony-o just spent 3 of every 5 weeks in houston :-)
01:42 hobbs okay, PA then. Much nicer. :)
01:42 tony-o i would definitely go back to the midwest
01:42 tony-o PA isn't bad
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01:49 jeffythedragonsl I'm from PA
01:49 MasterDuke jeffythedragonsl: same here (originally)
01:50 TimToady .oO(Palo Alto)
01:50 TimToady .oO(Panama)
01:50 jeffythedragonsl in maryland now
01:51 TimToady my son used to live in silver spring
01:51 MasterDuke also in md now
01:59 tony-o twinsies
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02:01 jeffythedragonsl freenode not accepting unicode in nicknames *sigh*
02:02 tony-o erroneous
02:02 hobbs jeffythedragonsl: which bit of PA?
02:02 jeffythedragonsl collegeville
02:03 jeffythedragonsl only college in collegeville is ursinus though
02:03 hobbs but it's a very collegial atmosphere
02:04 hobbs I used to go down to King of Prussia if I wanted to see a movie REALLY BIG or gawk at stuff I couldn't afford in the Apple Store
02:05 tony-o king of prussia is where i was in PA
02:05 tony-o for SAP -
02:05 jeffythedragonsl imax is great
02:07 * hobbs lived in Monroe County for 15 years
02:07 jeffythedragonsl i had a friend put a python script that printed "gates>jobs" in a loop or something at that store
02:08 jeffythedragonsl they couldn't figure out how to kill it and offered him a job
02:13 tony-o the people at the apple store?
02:15 tony-o while [ 1 == 1 ]; do echo 'gates>jobs'; done;
02:16 tony-o i'm sure there's a shorter way
02:16 jeffythedragonsl he made it a bit harder to kill than that :)
02:17 tony-o oh he put some effort into it
02:17 tony-o i used to like renaming the 'recycle bin' at best buy
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02:18 hobbs tony-o: "while true", no need to get your test operators out :)
02:18 jeffythedragonsl while true works in zsh too
02:19 tony-o got too fancy
02:20 geekosaur or while :
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02:23 tony-o funny how much time can be spent focuing on something so trivial
02:23 tony-o focusing
02:30 IOninja .oO( I bet they're sick of sinuses jokes at ursinus college... )
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02:32 Geth ¦ specs: c6cdaff34d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | v6d.pod
02:32 Geth ¦ specs: Add reminder to un-LTA log(42, 1) error
02:32 Geth ¦ specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/c6cdaff34d
02:33 Geth ¦ specs: c112fa54a8 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | v6d.pod
02:33 Geth ¦ specs: )
02:33 Geth ¦ specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/c112fa54a8
02:34 IOninja So, what's the acronym for making LTA stuff Awesome...?
02:35 IOninja ATB... "make error Awesomer Than Before"
02:35 IOninja And what's an error that is not LTA?
02:35 timotimo PDG? Pretty Damn Good?
02:37 hobbs MTLTA
02:38 IOninja I like PDG :D
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02:46 samcv hmm so 9482 in base -10 equals -8678
02:46 samcv i got negative bases from -1 to -10 working
02:46 hobbs balanced ternary or nothing at all
02:46 samcv heh
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02:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
02:48 hobbs unicode usually uses "turned" for something that's been rotated 180
02:48 timotimo also for the undead
02:48 hobbs but only seems to have TURNED DIGIT 2 and TURNED DIGIT 3
02:48 hobbs no 1 :)
02:48 unicodable6 samcv, U+0031 DIGIT ONE [Nd] (1)
02:48 unicodable6 samcv, U+0661 ARABIC-INDIC DIGIT ONE [Nd] (١)
02:49 unicodable6 samcv, https://gist.github.com/56b6​30e8a3e84dbc7f95af6677bf25a3
02:49 timotimo it probably used to have only ^2 and ^3
02:49 timotimo and then the turned variants were introduced for some reason. and then the rest of ^1, ^4, ...
02:49 * timotimo maximum shrug
02:50 timotimo unicode consortium giveth, unicode consortium taketh away
02:50 hobbs mostly it giveth emoji
02:50 unicodable6 samcv, https://gist.github.com/ae64​845843cde54a29676220243796b6
02:50 samcv what it taketh away?
02:50 timotimo dunno
02:50 TimToady I usually write it with +, 0, and -
02:50 timotimo i just accept my fate kneeling down
02:51 hobbs TimToady: sensible!
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03:53 Eddward samcv: Hi.  Are you able to see an attachment on issue 525?
03:53 yoleaux 8 Feb 2017 10:35Z <samcv> Eddward: I am told if you open the file with :enc<utf8-c8>, or you can rename the file, ($file).copy($file.Str.encod​e('utf8-c8').decode('utf8')) where $file is a IO::Path obj
03:53 samcv hi Eddward
03:54 Eddward I tried to upload a recreate script.  I don't think it worked.
03:54 samcv nope i can't. how big is the file
03:54 samcv and is it just one or multiple
03:54 samcv or is it just a text file?
03:55 Eddward 50k
03:55 Eddward It's a zip with 4 files.
03:55 Eddward It wouldn't let me just upload the script.  It only like certain file types.
03:56 samcv try uploading again
03:56 samcv or rename from like foo.p6 to foo.p6.txt
03:56 samcv but i think zips work
03:56 Eddward It created a link, but it just links back to the issue.
03:56 Eddward I'll try again.
03:56 samcv yeah the link got messed up
03:56 samcv edit the post and try uploading again
03:57 Eddward ugh.  I'm getting the "something went really wrong" thing again.
03:59 Eddward I'm trying to find a pastebin for binaries.
04:02 Eddward Does this work for you?  http://filebin.ca/3Bs49AZXK4GX/recreate.zip
04:02 samcv yep
04:03 Eddward cool.  I added the link to the issue.
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04:05 Eddward oh.  I should have added :bin to the slurp()s I bet.
04:05 samcv no, just :enc('utf8-c8')
04:05 samcv so it doesn't put the unicode into NFC
04:06 Eddward Will that force everything to be utf8-c8?
04:07 Eddward I'm afraid I don't really even know what utf8-c8 or NFC really are.  I'm just worried I'll fix this file and potentially break others.
04:07 samcv yeah. ok well let me try it
04:08 atweiden i've narrowed down a role-related error message that i don't comprehend at https://github.com/atweiden/hxc
04:08 Eddward Like if I had a file with the 3 byte u and the 2 byte u, would it handle both?
04:08 atweiden Method 'bullet-point:sym<->' must be resolved by class HXC::Parser::Grammar because it exists in multiple roles (HXC::Parser::Grammar::Paragraph, HXC::Parser::Grammar::ListItem, HXC::Parser::Grammar::ListBlock)
04:08 atweiden what's the proper way to fix this?
04:09 samcv Eddward, it will retain all the data
04:09 samcv and if you try and open that file it will work too if the file's not in NFC form
04:09 samcv NFC is canonical unicode representation, lets say it's official Correct Way™ to store unicode
04:10 samcv but some characters like ŭ can be stored as two characters, but the NFC form is only one codepoint
04:10 samcv stored as two codepoints i mean
04:10 samcv i'm installing the modules you are using Eddward
04:11 Eddward ok.  I'm using star from January
04:15 Eddward like this?  slurp "$directory/expected.txt", :enc('utf8-c8')
04:15 samcv ok what is this program supposed to do
04:15 samcv yep
04:16 Eddward It's still writing a 2 byte U instead of the 3 byte.
04:16 samcv how are you writing the file
04:16 samcv oh you need spurt :enc('utf8-c8'
04:17 Eddward oh.  I did the slurp, not the spurt.
04:17 skids atweiden: if it is not a diamond problem, adding an "is default" to one of the rules might work.
04:18 Eddward same thing:      spurt "$directory/found.txt", $unescaped-data, :enc('utf8-c8');
04:18 samcv ok but what are you doing
04:18 samcv what is what you want the result to be
04:19 samcv how do i check what you're checking to determine this
04:19 samcv do you want expected.txt and found.txt to be the same?
04:19 Eddward I cd into recreate-525/ and run ./recreate.pl6
04:19 Eddward Then I open found.txt and expect.txt in a hex editor.
04:19 samcv ok
04:20 samcv you want found.txt and expect.txt to be the same contents
04:20 samcv sec now that i know what you want the result to be i can do this lol
04:20 Eddward The script will print good or bad if it thinks it worked or not.  I just just with the hex editory because I'm not sure I trust what I'm doing in the script to correctly compare them.
04:20 Eddward Yes.
04:21 Eddward expected.txt is the output of ls with file:// added and the newline removed.
04:21 Eddward I can get the same thing in perl5.
04:21 samcv ok so you are using DBIish to get the entry?
04:21 Eddward Yes.
04:22 samcv ok. so it's DBIish that's normalizing the text
04:22 Eddward sample.db is a pruned banshee.db.
04:22 atweiden skids: diamond problem?
04:22 samcv sec
04:22 Eddward I guess.  DBI has the the string URI escaped hex codes.
04:22 skids m: role B does A { method foo { } }; role C does A { method foo { } }; role D does C does B { }; D.new; # long-standing problem with roles
04:22 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Invalid typename 'A'␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3role B does A7⏏5 { method foo { } }; role C does A { met␤»
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04:23 skids atweiden: ^^
04:23 skids oops
04:23 Eddward I think uri_unescape() is creating the normalized u.
04:23 samcv hm k
04:23 samcv second
04:24 samcv ok so that makes it easier then
04:24 skids m: role A { method foo { } }; role B does A { method foo { } }; role C does A { method foo { } }; role D does C does B { }; D.new; # long-standing problem with roles
04:24 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«Method 'foo' must be resolved by class D because it exists in multiple roles (C, B)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
04:24 samcv if it's just URI::Escape
04:24 skids atweiden: It isn't supposed to be that way.
04:25 Eddward That's if I'm guessing right.  I'm still not sure I understand what's happening.
04:25 atweiden skids: where would one add the `is default` ?
04:26 skids Actually I tried it doesn't help.
04:26 skids Neither does my old workaround anymore.
04:26 skids :-(
04:26 skids m: role A { multi method foo ($self: :$diamond? where {True}) { } }; role B does A { }; role C does A { }; role D does C does B { }; D.new; # old workaround
04:26 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«Multi method 'foo' with signature :($self: :$diamond where { ... }, *%_) must be resolved by class D because it exists in multiple roles (C, B)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
04:27 samcv hmm trying to find source of uri escape
04:27 Eddward On a side note, I might be safer if you default $dbfile to "$directory/sample.db".  I forgot that.
04:27 Eddward Then you don't have to be in the directory.
04:28 Eddward rakudo-star-2017.01/modules/uri/lib/URI/Escape.pm
04:28 Eddward That's where I find it in the star directory.
04:29 atweiden skids: does something need doing in rakudo?
04:29 Eddward https://github.com/moritz/perl6-al​l-modules/blob/master/perl6-commun​ity-modules/uri/lib/URI/Escape.pm
04:29 samcv well i have 175 vs 176 now
04:29 samcv but i maybe messed it up
04:29 samcv give me a few mins ok
04:31 skids atweiden: Yeah, it's a skip in roast. RT#12474
04:31 Eddward yep
04:31 skids oops wrong paste
04:31 skids RT#124749
04:31 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=124749
04:32 skids (and it's been hard to get a firm answer on the same problem for attributes)
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04:32 samcv ok i fixed it Eddward
04:32 Eddward cool!
04:32 Eddward What's the change?
04:33 Eddward I'll try it on the larger library.
04:33 Eddward uri-unescape()?
04:33 samcv wait hold on
04:33 samcv yeah i'm working on it
04:34 Eddward ok
04:34 skids atweiden: though I'm not sure about the second test in that roast block WRT punning/inheritence.
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04:45 samcv ok i see what's happening
04:45 samcv the unescaper is unescaping one character at a time i think
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04:45 samcv so replaces the character in the string, then goes to the next char
04:45 atweiden there is more than one way to do it, thanks anyway skids
04:45 samcv and it ends up getting normalized because it's not doing it at once
04:46 samcv .subst(:g, / [ '%' (<.xdigit> ** 2 ) ]+ /, -> $/ {
04:46 samcv Buf.new($0.flatmap({ :16(~$_) })).decode($enc)
04:46 samcv })
04:46 samcv this is what i'm doing now, and $enc is 'utf8-c8'
04:47 Eddward ok.  I'll try that in a minute....
04:47 samcv well it doesn't work :) i'm working on a solution
04:48 samcv ah ok i see
04:49 samcv because the character before the diacritic is not encoded with the uri escaping, we add the diacritic to it, and perl 6 does NFC
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04:49 samcv so even decoding the buff with utf8-c8 doesn't work. because a lone diacritic is the same in NFC form, it's only attached to something that it's different
04:50 Eddward Well, you understand it.  A solution doesn't have to come today.
04:50 samcv ok. i will eventually figure it out :)
04:51 samcv and then hopefully we can update uri-unescape so that it can do utf8-c8
04:52 Eddward cool.  Thanks for looking at it.  Sorry to be such a pest.
04:52 samcv no problem. it's a real world problem that needs solutions :)
04:54 Eddward I'm going to drop for a while.  I have some errands to run before midnight.
04:54 samcv kk
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05:41 samcv well i actually got it. heh
05:41 samcv pretty hacky
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07:21 eiro hello everyone
07:28 masak heiro! \o
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09:38 Xliff \o
09:39 faraco o/
09:39 Xliff Does anyone know if Perl6 can read P5's Storable files?
09:39 DrForr Through Inline::Perl5, yes.
09:40 Xliff Kinda defeats the purpose of porting a Perl5 module, yes?
09:40 Xliff But I was afraid that was to be the case.
09:40 Xliff May want to convert those datafiles to JSON or something.
09:41 Xliff DrForr: You aren't aware of a native Perl6 solution?
09:41 DrForr It's entirely possible for Perl 6 to read Perl 5 Storable format files, yes.
09:41 DrForr I don't think anyone's written a module to do that yet, however.
09:41 Xliff Ah.
09:42 DrForr There's PerlStore, which is a Perl 6 format.
09:42 Xliff Right, but I am trying to port a Perl 5 module to Perl 6 which has data in Perl 5's Storable format.
09:43 DrForr Okay, cool.
09:45 Xliff So I will look into PerlStore.
09:45 Xliff Because looking at Storable's code made my head hurt.
09:45 DrForr My followup question would be: How often are you going to want to migrate Perl 5 data to Perl 6? And wouldn't a converter for that data that uses Inline::Perl5, reads the storable format and then dumps out Perl 6 format be easier than doing bit-for-bit compatible Storable code?
09:45 Xliff Dead ended at what I expect is an XS routine.
09:46 DrForr Yes, Storable isn't pure Perl 5.
09:46 Xliff LOL! Your followup whas what I just decided to do.
09:47 DrForr use Storable:from<Perl5>; my $x = Storable.new($filename); "file".put($x.perl); # or something similar.
09:47 Xliff Yes. That's the nutshell.
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09:53 Xliff Well.... "use Storable:from<Perl5>" chokes
09:54 Xliff $ perl6 -e 'use Storable:from<Perl5>;'
09:54 Xliff ===SORRY!===
09:54 Xliff Type check failed in binding to $handle; expected CompUnit::Handle but got Sub (sub EXPORT (*@args) {...)
09:54 Xliff Bug?
09:54 Xliff Lemme try something else;
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09:58 faraco star: use Storable:from<Perl5>
09:58 camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Please install Inline::Perl5 for Perl 5 support. ␤»
09:59 faraco star: use LWP::Useragent
09:59 camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find LWP::Useragent at line 1 in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6␤    /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6␤    CompUnit::Repository:…»
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10:06 Xliff I may have to go back to the original author for the raw data.
10:06 Xliff Recursion limit of 1000 exceeded at /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/perl/5.24/Data/Dumper.pm line 233
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10:18 Xliff Well, I can load the data in Perl5, but it's bloody recursive.
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10:40 Xliff OK. Too tired to suss this out any further. I know I can load the data via "use Inline::Perl5; my $p5 = Inline::Perl5.new; $p5.call("use Storable; my $h = retrieve($filename)")
10:40 Xliff The problem is figuring out the bloody structure because it looks like endless arrays.
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10:57 DrForr Xliff: use Inline::Perl5; use Storable:from<Perl5>; my $s = Storable.new(...);
11:00 DrForr https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5 # The SYNOPSIS is pretty clear.
11:00 DrForr use Storable:from<Perl5> <retrieve>; # import retrieve() from Storable.
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11:09 Xliff DrForr: I mentioned earlier that method was a no go:
11:09 Xliff $ perl6 -e 'use Storable:from<Perl5> <retrieve>; my $h = retrieve("perl5/english")'
11:09 Xliff ===SORRY!===
11:09 Xliff Type check failed in binding to $handle; expected CompUnit::Handle but got Sub (sub EXPORT (*@args) {...)
11:10 Xliff As a matter of fact, I can boil that down to "use Storable:from<Perl5>"
11:10 Xliff Is that a bug?
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11:43 DrForr Looks that way, though I'd check the test suite to make sure the documentation hasn't come ad rift from the actual code.
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12:17 thundergnat .tell samcv Take a look at http://rosettacode.org/wiki/​Negative_base_numbers#Perl_6 for negative base number for bases -2..-36.
12:17 yoleaux thundergnat: I'll pass your message to samcv.
12:19 * DrForr contemplates negabinary, balanced ternary and imaginary bases.
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13:16 timotimo Xliff: i think you just have to gte a fresher Inline::Perl5 and/or rakudo
13:28 IOninja Are continuations still "somewhat experimental and JVM-only NQP feature"? I'm getting a crash in nqp::continuationreset(PROMPT, &!resumption) but on moar....
13:30 timotimo rakudo uses continuations to implement gather/take (but sometimes gather/take is optimized to use something simpler, i think when all elements are requested?)
13:30 jnthn Not at all; they're used by gather/take, and also in 6.d await
13:30 jnthn Don't suppose you're using rotor? :)
13:31 * jnthn filed a regression ticket about that in RT and it blew up inside the gather impl
13:31 jnthn Though I suspect that it's because something downstream is mis-using the iterator
13:31 jnthn Like pull-one'ing it after it already replied with IterationEnd or similar
13:31 IOninja Yeah, I'm debugging that one ATM
13:32 jnthn Ah, cool :)
13:32 jnthn I suspect if there was a problem in gather/take we'd probably notice it all over the place.
13:32 jnthn So my guess would be that it's in the rotor/batch impl
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13:48 IOninja Are you meant to be able to call .pull-one any number of times without anything crashing?
13:48 wcummings whats the state of perl6 in emacs? is henrik's perl6-mode the best thing? hasnt been updated in a while
13:49 IOninja wcummings: I see 34 commits on top of that in our fork: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-mode
13:49 wcummings ahh the fork didnt come up in my search results, thanks
13:50 timotimo IOninja: i guess after IterationEnd has been returned, you're not supposed to do it any more?
13:50 IOninja Basically, it looks like R::I.Batch pulls one-too-many times. This already caused a bug with IO::ArgFiles.lines, but there we made its .pull-one not crash when it's called too many times.
13:51 IOninja The same issue exists with this .rotor bug which is due to .pull-one being called too many times:
13:51 timotimo that'd probably be the fix, then
13:51 IOninja m: given (gather do for ^2 { take "x" }).iterator -> $it { dd do for ^10 { $it.pull-one } }
13:51 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Uninstantiable; Callable)␤  in code  at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
13:52 IOninja timotimo: that being what? :) Make .pull-one not crash after stuff's been exhausted or do we say that there's no guarantees that you can still call .pull-one after you got IterationEnd?
13:52 Xliff timotimo: Thanks for the suggestion. I will refresh Inline::Perl5
13:52 Xliff I rakudobrew daily
13:52 timotimo i don't think we make that guarantee
13:53 timotimo jnthn called that mis-using
13:53 timotimo so i'd be inclined to say "don't do that"
13:54 IOninja OK. Then I'll figure out what the RI::Batch is doing and then we'll need to revert the IO::ArgFiles thing (it's introducing X% slowdown) and toss its test, as the test tests for ability to call .pull-one till you're blue in the face
13:54 timotimo mhm
13:54 Xliff And that removed the issue from "perl6 -e 'use Storable:from<Perl5>'
13:54 timotimo may wait for jnthn to actually confirm that's what he meant
13:54 Xliff I keep forgetting that Inline::Perl5 is a bit volatile.
13:55 IOninja jnthn: is it acceptable for .pull-one to not be callable after it returned IterationEnd?
13:55 Xliff So....
13:56 Xliff What's the best way to convert a Perl5Array to a proper Perl 6 Array. Especially when the Perl5Array may be using circular array references.
13:56 Xliff ???
13:56 Xliff And is that something that .perl or PerlStore can handle?
13:56 jnthn IOninja: You're not meant to use an Iterator again after it gave back IterationEnd
13:56 jnthn IOninja: Doing so is undefined behavior
13:57 IOninja Perfect!
13:57 timotimo it'd be interesting if we could mix in a role that wraps all methods of all iterators to check for protocol adherence
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14:00 Xliff Does anyone know of a way to read Storable data into Perl 6 without using Inline::Perl5?
14:00 IOninja heh
14:00 IOninja Well, it's open source. Replicate the code in Perl 6
14:01 [Coke] Xliff: no new intel has surfaced since you asked in backscroll, probably. :)
14:01 IOninja But IIRC there are issues reading its data even between different versions. I always viewed it as here-be-dragons type of storage.
14:01 [Coke] Did you upgrade your copies of inline::perl5 and rakudo ? (or report which versions you were using?)
14:02 [Coke] IOninja: ah, good point.
14:03 [Coke] also, do you have a gist showing your current issue?
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14:06 Xliff [Coke]: Updated, yes.
14:07 Xliff And I am able to get the data in via Inline::Perl5. However that structure is not conducive to .perl or .gist because it contains circular references.
14:10 [Coke] What are you trying to get from the data?
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14:14 Xliff Will PerlStore or .gist handle circular references?
14:14 IOninja .gist will
14:14 Xliff The end goal is to remove the dependency of Inline::Perl5 in reading the data.
14:14 Xliff So I need to take the Perl5 files and convert them into something suitable for Perl6.
14:14 [Coke] .gist and .perl are not great about circular references, no. but that still doesn't answer the question - what are you trying to do ?
14:14 IOninja m: my @a = [@a]; say @a
14:14 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot use variable @a in declaration to initialize itself␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my @a = [@7⏏5a]; say @a␤    expecting any of:␤        term␤»
14:14 [Coke] "something suitable"
14:14 [Coke] ?
14:14 IOninja m: my @a; @a[0] = @a; say @a
14:14 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«(\Array_74318568 = [Array_74318568])␤»
14:15 [Coke] so, you want Storable6?
14:15 faraco howdy
14:16 Xliff m: my @a; @a[0] = 1; @a.push: @a[0] xx 8; say @a;
14:16 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«[1 (1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1)]␤»
14:16 [Coke] PerlStore isn't a core thing.
14:16 Xliff [Coke]: Storable6. Yes.
14:16 [Coke] So, right now, there's no core P6 Storable, (and .perl and .gist weren't meant to fill that niche), and you'll have to talk to teodozjan about PerlStore.
14:17 [Coke] (so, I would consider this a conversation starter, but don't expect anything at the moment to fill this particular niche)
14:17 Xliff my @b; my @c; my @a = (1, @b, @c); @b = (2, @c, @a); @c = (3, @b, @a); say @a;
14:18 Xliff m: my @b; my @c; my @a = (1, @b, @c); @b = (2, @c, @a); @c = (3, @b, @a); say @a;
14:18 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«(\Array_55036336 = [1 (\Array_55037008 = [2 [3 Array_55037008 Array_55036336] Array_55036336]) (\Array_55037064 = [3 [2 Array_55037064 Array_55036336] Array_55036336])])␤»
14:18 IOninja Xliff: .gist won't let you roundrip data, even if it can handle circular structures.
14:18 IOninja m: say <1/2>
14:18 Xliff m: my @b; my @c; my @a = (1, @b, @c); @b = (2, @c, @a); @c = (3, @b, @a); say @a.gist;
14:18 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«(\Array_52104392 = [1 (\Array_52105064 = [2 [3 Array_52105064 Array_52104392] Array_52104392]) (\Array_52105120 = [3 [2 Array_52105120 Array_52104392] Array_52104392])])␤»
14:18 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
14:18 IOninja m: say "5"
14:18 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«5␤»
14:19 Xliff I'm onlyh worried about the circular structures at this point. It was a GOTCHA I didn't forsee.
14:20 [Coke] Looking at FIleStore, it is just using .perl, so that's not helpful.
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14:21 Xliff Screw it. If I need to I can just use .perl or .gist and gzip the resulting file.
14:21 [Coke] I think rakudo has all the pieces that you could render it out as a bytecode file (but that wouldn't be portable between backends)
14:21 Xliff Or now.
14:21 Xliff s/now/not/
14:21 Xliff I think using compression on the resulting .perl or .gist output would be bytecode enough.
14:22 Xliff Not efficient, but it should work.
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14:23 Xliff Although I get nervous when I do a .perl or a .gist and the program just hangs.
14:24 DrForr .perl .. still.. can't dump circular structures? I'd swear I filed that bug at least a year ago.
14:24 timotimo it can
14:24 IOninja It can't dump a lot of things.
14:25 timotimo there's $*PERLSEEN or what is it called?
14:25 IOninja m: (1...*).perl
14:25 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«Cannot .elems a lazy list␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
14:25 IOninja .gistseen, but it's used only for .gist, innit?
14:25 IOninja m: my @a; @a = [@a]; @a.perl.say
14:25 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«[]␤»
14:25 IOninja m: my @a; @a[0] = @a; @a.perl.say
14:25 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«(my \Array_74464672 = [Array_74464672,])␤»
14:25 DrForr Well, there are lots of things I wouldn't expect it to be able to dump, but it's good to know that the circular case is taken care of.
14:25 IOninja Oh, nevermind
14:26 IOninja m: my @a; @a[0] = @a; my $z = @a.perl.EVAL; say $z.perl
14:26 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«$[Mu]␤»
14:27 Xliff Rut roh
14:27 IOninja seems broke
14:27 Xliff m: my @a; @a[0] = @a; my $z = @a.gist.EVAL; say $z.perl
14:27 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /home/camelia/EVAL_0␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead␤at /home/camelia/EVAL_0:1␤------> 3(\Array_80645888 =7⏏5 [Array_80645888])␤»
14:27 timotimo huh, misses the my?
14:27 IOninja .gist isn't meant to be evalable
14:27 timotimo oh, right
14:28 Xliff Oh. I thought it was the other way around. LOL
14:28 Xliff m: my @a; @a[0] = @a; my $z = @a.perl.EVAL; say $z.perl
14:28 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«$[Mu]␤»
14:28 Xliff m: my @a; @a[0] = @a; my @z = @a.perl.EVAL; say @z.perl
14:28 camelia rakudo-moar 301bcf: OUTPUT«[Mu]␤»
14:28 Xliff My .gist still hasn't done anything.
14:29 Xliff Generally a sign that something is stuck down the rabbit hole, somewhere.
14:47 Geth ¦ doc: 84a1c452de | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Language/functions.pod6
14:47 Geth ¦ doc: fix typo
14:47 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/84a1c452de
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15:18 tbrowder hi #perl6
15:19 IOninja \o
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15:20 tbrowder continuing suggestions for website, and IOninja's comments about using p6 because of memory use:  maybe a dumb question, but would it help )if possible) p6 to make it a daemon process somehow so the startup time is once?
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15:22 timotimo the way he's suggesting you use it is already to make it a daemon process
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15:22 timotimo by using Bailador or something similar
15:22 tbrowder any chance of bailador being made multi-threaded any time soon?
15:23 timotimo well, there's a bunch of stability improvements still being made to multithreaded stuff
15:23 timotimo i think there's already multi-thread-capable web frameworks
15:23 timotimo but i haven't had to build any web apps in a long time with perl6
15:23 timotimo so i don't know which. maybe it's something to do with "crust"?
15:23 tbrowder would bailador only block while responding to a request?
15:24 timotimo it won't take in or respond to more than one request at a time
15:25 tbrowder so a lightly used site wouldn't  be too painful. i mean look at the SLOW dynamic sites out there now!
15:25 timotimo you're free to kick off threads as much as you want, but it won't allow you to respond to a request later than a new request coming in
15:25 timotimo aye, and if you serve static files from your web server itself (i.e. apache/nginx/cherokee/iis/...) there will only be load for the truly dynamic pages
15:25 tbrowder hm, i'll look at crust again...
15:26 timotimo ah, crust is really a thing that a web framework would use
15:27 timotimo so you want something that depends on crust rather than crust itself
15:27 tbrowder another question about the proxying for bailador: incoming is https, proxy is http, what happens to the response from the proxied server, back out via https?
15:28 IOninja yes
15:28 tbrowder cool--thanks IOninja and timotimo!
15:28 timotimo it would be a pretty amazing feat if the server would actually somehow make the browser open an HTTP connection so it could send the response back
15:29 timotimo and somehow make it properly recognize what request that was the response to
15:29 timotimo "Frinfon" is a minimal sinatra clone, that's a web framework
15:30 timotimo that's apparently the only one i can find in perl6-all-modules that depends on Crust and is a web framework like thing
15:30 timotimo i don't even know if crust has multithreaded capabilities :) :)
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16:16 sena_kun [Coke], ping. Any info about https://github.com/perl6/doc/pull/1181?
16:17 RabidGravy timotimo, Crust relies on the underlying server engine for the multithreaded capabilities
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16:20 timotimo OK, so if you put it on top of HTTP::Server::Threaded or HTTP::Server::Async it'd work well?
16:20 RabidGravy well assuming they do that sort of PSGI thing
16:20 RabidGravy HTTP::Server::Tiny works
16:21 timotimo is Tiny multi-thread-capable?
16:22 tony-o Async is stable with moar-blead
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16:22 tony-o and you could build a PSGI type interface on top of it
16:23 RabidGravy I keep meaning to make that
16:23 timotimo it's stable? cool!
16:23 timotimo RabidGravy: for lumberjack you used crust directly, right?
16:23 timotimo so you haven't tested it with async or threaded servers?
16:23 RabidGravy no
16:24 [Coke] sena_kun: sorry, very busy with $DAYJOB, haven't had a chance to review yet.
16:24 sena_kun [Coke], don't worry, just checking is it actual.
16:25 RabidGravy anyhow I visited the warehouse of the company I am working for today
16:25 RabidGravy some really cool robotic stuff
16:25 IOninja :o
16:25 timotimo neat
16:25 ugexe pass the butter
16:26 timotimo do they also have these neat little robo buddies that skittle along the floor and move shelves around?
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16:27 RabidGravy no, unfortunately not, but the massive picking thing like a huge tap library robot was quite awe inspiring
16:28 IOninja .oO( tap library..? )
16:28 RabidGravy tape
16:28 IOninja Ah
16:30 RabidGravy really whizzy for something two storeys tall and as long as a tennis court
16:32 timotimo whoa.
16:32 timotimo our local hackspace is going to get a small pick&place machine
16:32 timotimo it takes up an area of 1.6m x 1.6m
16:33 timotimo dunno how tall it is
16:33 timotimo but damn, p&p is so fancy
16:33 huf i hope you use it to automate something absolutely silly
16:34 timotimo we're actually going to produce badges for our upcoming event
16:35 llfourn joined #perl6
16:40 tony-o where do you work?
16:40 user9 joined #perl6
16:44 RabidGravy who?
16:44 timotimo the babe with the power
16:45 RabidGravy I am working for an "online luxury fashion retailer" right now
16:48 pyrimidine joined #perl6
16:49 sena_kun Am I wrong or we had a module for creating skeletons for new modules? Not META6-bin, but something else with lib/, t/, etc.
16:50 timotimo mi6
16:50 IOninja buggable: eco Ddt
16:50 buggable IOninja, Ddt 'Distribution Development Tool a replacement for mi6': https://github.com/kalkin/Ddt
16:51 timotimo interesting
16:52 sena_kun perfect! thanks.
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16:59 RabidGravy I keep meaning to actually write the one that Oyatul was supposed to be a part of
16:59 timotimo ouya tool?
17:00 RabidGravy Booyah!
17:00 * IOninja wonders if "Sam S" and "smsl" are the same person
17:00 IOninja Show up as separate in rakudo's contributor tool
17:00 timotimo they are not
17:00 RabidGravy well I actually made it for a family of things
17:00 IOninja Ah, OK
17:00 timotimo https://github.com/ssutch - this is sam s
17:00 IOninja cool
17:00 timotimo at least i think so
17:01 IOninja no contrib activity
17:01 RabidGravy anything that wants some files laid out in a particular way
17:01 IOninja Yet this person apparently submitted one commit to doc, nqp, MoarVM, roast, or rakudo repos
17:02 IOninja don't matter much I guess
17:02 timotimo BBIAB
17:04 IOninja oh, it *is* the same person: https://github.com/perl6/doc/​blob/master/CREDITS#L253-L269
17:05 IOninja .ask smsl you're listed twice in contributors under "Sam S" and "smsl". Which should be used? Both in docs credits: https://github.com/perl6/doc/​blob/master/CREDITS#L253-L269 and `smsl` in Rakudo's credits: https://github.com/rakudo/raku​do/blob/nom/CREDITS#L717-L718
17:05 yoleaux IOninja: I'll pass your message to smsl.
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17:25 samcv hmm would be cool if Pod::To::Markdown would use ```perl6 ``` for quoting perl 6 code
17:25 yoleaux 12:17Z <thundergnat> samcv: Take a look at http://rosettacode.org/wiki/​Negative_base_numbers#Perl_6 for negative base number for bases -2..-36.
17:25 samcv nice. i already did bases -2 to -10 at least. but that is good so i can extended it further :P
17:25 samcv to add more of the most useful bases
17:28 IOninja IIRC that's just a GitHub extension and would mess up proper Markdown
17:29 IOninja Oh, I think even the ``` bit is GitHub extension. I have a hack to reformat it on perl6.party that uses a Multimarkdown renderer: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6.party​/blob/master/lib/Perl5/Party/Posts.pm#L34
17:30 samcv does ```perl6 mess up other markdown?
17:30 samcv i thought other ones would just ignore it if they can't syntax highlight it?
17:30 RabidGravy I dunno, but other things definitely support the ```
17:30 samcv ^
17:31 samcv and all the ones i have seen, if they don't have syntax highlighter installed or don't support syntax highlighting just ignore what's after the ```
17:31 samcv until a newline
17:32 samcv https://github.com/samcv/perl6-number-base did i mess up how i did the Pod?
17:32 samcv cause this looks ugly
17:32 samcv this is what I did https://github.com/samcv/perl6-number-b​ase/blob/master/lib/Number/Base.pm6#L3
17:33 IOninja No mention of ``` in standard: https://daringfireball.net​/projects/markdown/syntax
17:33 IOninja The "other things" must be all the gazillion variations
17:34 samcv ``` is pretty common though
17:34 samcv m: say 10.base(-10)
17:34 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«base argument to base out of range. Is: -10, should be in 2..36␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
17:35 samcv m: say "e92".base(10)
17:35 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«No such method 'base' for invocant of type 'Str'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
17:35 samcv m: say "e92".parse-base(10)
17:35 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: malformed base-10 number in '3⏏5e92' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
17:35 samcv m: say "e92".parse-base(-10)
17:35 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Radix -10 out of range (allowed: 2..36)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
17:35 samcv maybe that should be changed to "malformed base 10 number"
17:35 samcv cause base-10 looks like base -10
17:36 samcv what do you think IOninja
17:36 AlexDaniel that's a bit too much
17:37 samcv hmm?
17:37 AlexDaniel current message is alright
17:37 samcv well since base -10 exists, i think the error message is not as good as it can be
17:37 samcv to put a hyphen-minus in front of the 10
17:37 AlexDaniel wait… base -10?
17:37 samcv yes. my module supports it :P
17:37 samcv it's a real base
17:38 diakopter according to rosetta code: "Negative base numbers are an alternatively way to encode numbers without the need for a minus sign. "
17:38 samcv yep
17:38 samcv like base -2
17:38 diakopter those alternatively ways
17:38 AlexDaniel wait, is it this balanced thingy?
17:38 samcv is-deeply from-base('101', -2), 5, "from-base -1 for '101' is 5";
17:39 samcv here is one test i have in my code
17:39 IOninja samcv: message looks fine to me
17:39 samcv 101 in base -2 is 5
17:39 AlexDaniel hm… but still, the error message is fine
17:39 llfourn joined #perl6
17:39 AlexDaniel it says it's out of range, only 2..36 is allowed
17:40 samcv that one is fine
17:40 samcv i'm talking about the other one
17:40 samcv m: say "ae".parse-base(10)
17:40 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: malformed base-10 number in '3⏏5ae' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
17:40 samcv would be better if it just said "base 10" or something
17:41 cibs joined #perl6
17:42 samcv m: say (-2)**$_ for ^5
17:42 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«1␤-2␤4␤-8␤16␤»
17:42 samcv AlexDaniel, that's how negative bases work
17:43 samcv 1010 in base -2 is -10 for example
17:43 samcv has a 1 in the -2 place, and a 1 in the -8's place
17:43 sufrostico joined #perl6
17:43 AlexDaniel but it's different from balanced ternary, right?
17:44 samcv yes
17:44 AlexDaniel hmh
17:44 samcv ternary is 0, 1, or 2, where the 2 == -1
17:44 samcv though they often denote it with some other symbol that isn't a 2
17:46 samcv hmm think i will try and get to the backlog of atom-language-perl6 issues this morning
17:46 samcv not that many. but always easier to hunt and find them all in the same session
17:48 itaipu joined #perl6
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18:29 samcv argh on the docs i can't even search for Regex and get the Language/Regexes page
18:29 samcv we should give the Language pages more weighting
18:29 IOninja m: class { has $a = 42; has $.b where $!a }.new: :42b
18:29 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a VMNull type object␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
18:29 IOninja Is this supposed to work at all?
18:31 AlexDaniel c: 2015.01.1 class { has $a = 42; has $.b where $!a }.new: :42b
18:31 committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦«2015.01.1»:
18:31 IOninja Ah.. right :)
18:32 AlexDaniel it worked for 3 months, so… 🤷
18:32 IOninja oh, it's pre-Christmas... hmm
18:32 TimToady we make sure the = bits happen in the right order, but I dunno about when 'where' runs; maybe 'where' wasn't working at all back then
18:33 IOninja c: 2015.01.1 my $z = class { has $a = 42; has $.b where $!a }.new: :42b; say $z.b
18:33 committable6 IOninja, ¦«2015.01.1»: 42
18:33 IOninja c: 2015.01.1 my $z = class { has $a = 42; has $.b where $!a }.new: :b("lulz"; say $z.b
18:33 committable6 IOninja, https://gist.github.com/c381​503668e3c6411225fa76b918554f
18:33 IOninja c: 2015.01.1 my $z = class { has $a = 42; has $.b where $!a }.new: :b("lulz"); say $z.b
18:33 committable6 IOninja, ¦«2015.01.1»: lulz
18:33 AlexDaniel oh
18:33 Geth ¦ doc: 8cd3001dbf | (Samantha McVey)++ | assets/sass/_highlights.scss
18:33 Geth ¦ doc: Try and highlight the m and rx in m// and rx// differently
18:33 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8cd3001dbf
18:33 AlexDaniel well :)
18:33 IOninja c: 2015.01.1 my $z = class { has $a = 42; has $.b where {$!a == 42} }.new: :b("lulz"); say $z.b
18:33 committable6 IOninja, ¦«2015.01.1»: lulz
18:33 IOninja Yeah, it's just the where ain't working
18:34 IOninja oh wait
18:34 IOninja c: 2015.01.1 my $z = class { has $a = 42; has $.b where {$!a == 41} }.new: :b("lulz"); say $z.b
18:34 committable6 IOninja, ¦«2015.01.1»: lulz
18:34 IOninja Yeah
18:34 IOninja c: 2015.01.1 my $z = class { has $a = 42; has $.b where {dd $!a; $!a == 41} }.new: :b("lulz"); say $z.b
18:34 committable6 IOninja, ¦«2015.01.1»: lulz
18:34 * IOninja puts this ticket back into "hard" pile and moves on
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18:43 Geth ¦ doc: 54fa9b4324 | (Samantha McVey)++ | htmlify.p6
18:43 Geth ¦ doc: Fix build for macosx
18:43 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/54fa9b4324
18:55 samcv what is with travis being super slow
18:56 IOninja gifted horse....
18:57 geekosaur ^ we're freeloading on a commercial service, commercial users come first then they handle any free users as resources are available
18:58 labster joined #perl6
19:01 wcummings if i install rakudo from source, is that supposed to include zef?
19:01 sena_kun wcummings, nope.
19:02 sena_kun afaik, at least.
19:02 IOninja wcummings: if by "from source" you mean compiler's source, then no. There are bootstrapping instructions in zef's readme tho
19:02 IOninja buggable: eco zef
19:02 buggable IOninja, zef 'It's like [cpanm] wearing high heels with a tracksuit': https://github.com/ugexe/zef
19:03 IOninja huh... GitHub uglified their top panel?
19:03 samcv omg whyyy
19:03 sena_kun seems bad. :|
19:03 samcv and the rest of the page is white?
19:04 samcv sena_kun, be happy it doesn't follow you as you scroll down the page
19:04 samcv just wait
19:05 sena_kun samcv, following by scrolling is not so bad as it seems and can be useful depending on... different stuff. But new top looks like someone accidently inverted colors and pushed it without testing.
19:06 sena_kun but "we're freeloading on a commercial service"-argument works here too.
19:07 IOninja .oO( there're always user styles... )
19:09 AlexDaniel u: subscript c
19:09 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+0656 ARABIC SUBSCRIPT ALEF [Mn] (◌ٖ)
19:09 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+1D62 LATIN SUBSCRIPT SMALL LETTER I [Lm] (ᵢ)
19:09 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/4e5d​aff0b4555e33aa1d151187dd6268
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19:12 samcv sena_kun, now when i have a tiny screen
19:14 sena_kun samcv, fullscreen browser mode?
19:15 samcv nope
19:15 IOninja do we have something other than nqp to test whether a thing is containerized?
19:15 IOninja m: use Test; is-deeply [], [].item.perl.EVAL
19:15 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤»
19:15 IOninja I need something like that ^ except it'd also verify the itemization is there
19:15 IOninja .. without poking at .perl string
19:16 sena_kun samcv, modern web is young ==> all about violence
19:17 samcv heh
19:18 samcv is this for the Test module?
19:18 IOninja my Q? No, I'm just writing a roast test.
19:18 samcv ah i see
19:18 samcv you can see if it's in a Scalar
19:19 samcv m: my $var; say $var.VAR.^name
19:19 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Scalar␤»
19:21 IOninja m: $().VAR.^name.say
19:21 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Use of Nil in string context␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤Str␤»
19:21 IOninja m: ().VAR.^name.say
19:21 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«List␤»
19:23 tony-o m: my \x = $(); x.VAR.^name.say;
19:23 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Use of Nil in string context␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤Str␤»
19:23 tony-o m: my \x = $(); x = 5; x.VAR.^name.say;
19:23 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Use of Nil in string context␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤Cannot modify an immutable Str␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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19:23 tony-o m: my $y = 5; my \x = $y; x = 5; x.VAR.^name.say;
19:23 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Scalar␤»
19:23 tony-o m: my $y = 5; my \x = $y; x = 'hello world'; x.VAR.^name.say;
19:23 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Scalar␤»
19:24 tony-o m: my $y = 5; my \x = $y; x = %( x => 5 ); x.VAR.^name.say;
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Scalar␤»
19:24 samcv m: my $var; say $var.VAR.^methods
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«(<anon> <anon> new name of default dynamic WHICH)␤»
19:24 samcv m: my \var; say var.VAR.^name
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Term definition requires an initializer␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my \var7⏏5; say var.VAR.^name␤»
19:24 samcv m: my \var = 0; say var.VAR.^name
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Int␤»
19:24 samcv that seems to work fine
19:25 samcv m: my $var = 0; say $var.VAR.^name
19:25 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Scalar␤»
19:25 samcv yep
19:25 IOninja m: say $().VAR.^name
19:25 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Use of Nil in string context␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤Str␤»
19:26 IOninja m: say ($()).VAR.^name
19:26 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Use of Nil in string context␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤Str␤»
19:26 IOninja m: say ().item.VAR.^name
19:26 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Scalar␤»
19:26 IOninja weird
19:27 IOninja : $[].perl.say
19:27 IOninja ,: $[].perl.say
19:27 IOninja m: $[].perl.say
19:27 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«$[]␤»
19:27 IOninja m: [].item.perl.say
19:27 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«$[]␤»
19:27 IOninja m: say quietly $[].VAR eqv [].item.VAR
19:27 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:27 IOninja m: say quietly $[].VAR.^name
19:27 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Scalar␤»
19:28 IOninja m: say ($(),).VAR.^name
19:28 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Use of Nil in string context␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤List␤»
19:28 IOninja Oh, dammit, tripped on the very bug I'm fixing!
19:28 IOninja m: say $( ).VAR.^name
19:28 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«Scalar␤»
19:28 IOninja samcv++ thanks
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19:32 IOninja FWIW, grepping the doc repo for `$()` gives nothing, but it's a shorthand for $/.made ?? $/.made !! $/.Str
19:34 RabidGravy :-O
19:36 gfldex IOninja: does roast agree?
19:36 llfourn joined #perl6
19:41 IOninja Ah, always forget that step :P
19:42 IOninja gfldex: this seems to be it: https://github.com/perl6/roast/blo​b/master/S05-match/make.t#L16-L22
19:43 IOninja Though I don't see it testing that it uses $/.made ?? as opposed to say $/.made.defined ?? for example
19:43 IOninja And personally, I'd expect .defined thing, probably. Never used $() tho
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19:46 IOninja m: 'foo' ~~ /o+ {make 42}/; say $()
19:46 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«42␤»
19:46 IOninja m: 'foo' ~~ /o+ {make 0}/; say $()
19:46 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«oo␤»
19:47 IOninja .DEFINITE even
19:48 IOninja m: 'foo' ~~ /o+ {make 0 but True}/; say $()
19:48 camelia rakudo-moar 02815c: OUTPUT«0␤»
19:48 IOninja hehe
19:49 * [Coke] yawns.
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19:51 ufobat i need some help pls, following line of code produces this output, and i dont understand why
19:51 ufobat say "r = $r ceiling -> ", $r.ceiling, " ", $r.perl, " what:",  $r.WHAT;
19:52 ufobat r = 2 ceiling -> 3 <2/1> what:(Rat)
19:53 ufobat m: my $a = <2/1>; say $a.perl, $a.ceiling, $a;
19:53 camelia rakudo-moar a148c7: OUTPUT«2.022␤»
19:54 * IOninja tries to parse that
19:54 IOninja I guess r = 2 ceiling -> 3 <2/1> what:(Rat) isn't perl code?
19:54 ufobat no thats the output of the say statement
19:54 IOninja Ah :D
19:54 IOninja m: my $a = <2/1>; say [ $a.perl, $a.ceiling, $a ]
19:54 camelia rakudo-moar a148c7: OUTPUT«[2.0 2 2]␤»
19:55 IOninja Looks good to me?
19:55 IOninja ufobat: how do you make $r?
19:56 IOninja I'm guessing there's floating point noise
19:56 IOninja ummm
19:56 ufobat but shouln't i see this in $a.perl ? which is 2/1
19:57 IOninja ufobat: well, what's $r? how do you make it?
19:57 [Coke] say does a gist.
19:57 IOninja So far, I've not seen a reproduction of your issue
19:57 ufobat i wasn't able to track it down, i dont know, its part of my xpath evaluation
19:58 ufobat [Coke], but it is a say $a.perl, so no gist, right?
19:58 IOninja s: 2.0, 'ceiling', \()
19:58 SourceBaby IOninja, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/bl​ob/02815c9/src/core/Rational.pm#L60
19:58 El_Che samcv: I am looking how to update the syntax checking support for perl6 on vim (with JSON error output). How does that work on atom? Does it call an external program (eg "perl6 -c")?
19:59 IOninja s: 2.0, 'perl', \()
19:59 SourceBaby IOninja, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo​/blob/02815c9/src/core/Rat.pm#L5
19:59 IOninja ufobat: what version are you on?
19:59 ufobat 2017.01
19:59 IOninja aha, well here's the first clue: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/b​lob/02815c9/src/core/Rat.pm#L6-L8
20:00 IOninja Since it's not ending up as 2.0 in .perl, then denominator isn't exactly 1
20:00 IOninja And I think there's a ticket for this issue that .perl isn't accurate
20:00 IOninja (or did I supposedly fix that already?)
20:00 ufobat right i get <2/1
20:01 ufobat > instead of 2.0
20:01 IOninja Yeah, suppoosed to be fixed: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/​b5aa3c591e4f0fdf6ccf9e5132fdf6a15618151d
20:02 IOninja Ummm, wait a sec.
20:02 IOninja nu/de are Ints :S there's no fp noise :S
20:02 IOninja m: <2/1>.perl.say
20:02 camelia rakudo-moar a148c7: OUTPUT«2.0␤»
20:03 IOninja ufobat: well, I'll be very interested in a repo case.
20:03 ufobat IOninja, sorry? what, you mean you'd like to see my code?
20:04 IOninja ufobat: I'd like to see code that I can run and reproduce that problem
20:04 [Coke] m: <2/1>.perl.put
20:04 camelia rakudo-moar a148c7: OUTPUT«2.0␤»
20:04 ufobat IOninja, yeah but it isnt tracked down:
20:04 IOninja don't matter
20:05 IOninja I can stick debug prints into rakudo at least and dump stuff
20:05 ufobat give me a sec
20:05 ufobat https://github.com/ufobat/p6-XML-XPath/blob/mast​er/t/23_much_more_function_and_expressions.t#L32
20:06 ufobat https://github.com/ufobat/p6-XML-XPath/blob​/master/lib/XML/XPath/FunctionCall.pm6#L106
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20:08 IOninja Could not find XML::XPath::ExprOperator::And
20:08 IOninja What dist is that in?
20:08 ufobat i am sorry, it is pushed now
20:10 cale2 hello
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20:11 IOninja lol
20:11 IOninja I stuck dd [$r, "X42"]; before the buggy line and the bug vanished
20:12 dj_goku joined #perl6
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20:12 ufobat okay, so we just keep the dd there and everthing will be fine :D
20:13 IOninja Schrödinger's bug... I can ask what type it is and all, but as soon as I try to peek at its nu/de, bug goes away :)
20:13 * IOninja digs furtehr
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20:15 * ufobat gives IOninja a box of cookies and a beer
20:15 IOninja beer? gross
20:16 Pattux exit
20:16 ufobat what!? am i not the only one that finds beer disgusting?
20:16 IOninja m: say 4 div 2 + 1
20:16 camelia rakudo-moar a148c7: OUTPUT«3␤»
20:16 RabidGravy weirdos
20:16 IOninja ahah
20:17 cale2 I don't get the obsession with craft beer, but beer is fine in general
20:17 * IOninja prepares sandwich bread
20:17 IOninja Bug sammiches for dinner
20:18 RabidGravy "craft beer" is just a term for marketing to hipsters
20:18 RabidGravy I buy beer from a local brewery whenever I can
20:19 bjz joined #perl6
20:19 tony-o cale2: mostly a hobby for some people, finding out what's out there, trying obscure things
20:19 IOninja ufobat: compiling a fix
20:20 ufobat IOninja, yay :D
20:21 cale2 Yeah, I like buying beer from local breweries too. But I have more of a pedestrian palette for beer. Can't do nitro stout or christmas ale
20:21 tony-o i don't care for the seasonal stuff either
20:21 ufobat IOninja, what was it?
20:24 IOninja ufobat: still thinking about it. 'cause I can't obtain the Rat you got by hand
20:24 IOninja oh, maybe some math operation...
20:25 IOninja hm
20:25 * IOninja tries to trace how $r is created
20:26 IOninja ufobat: where does $r come from?
20:26 IOninja where is it made
20:26 ufobat well it starts with fn-last()
20:28 IOninja Basically, somehow the $r you got is <4/2>
20:28 IOninja m: use nqp; my $r = <4/2>; say [ nqp::getattr(nqp::decont($r), Rat, '$!numerator'), nqp::getattr(nqp::decont($r), Rat, '$!denominator') ]
20:28 camelia rakudo-moar a148c7: OUTPUT«[2 1]␤»
20:28 IOninja ^ but if I make one manually, it gets reduced in .new
20:28 pyrimidine joined #perl6
20:28 ufobat the $of in fn-last is  the $start.elems from Line 12 of Predicates.pm6
20:28 IOninja So there's some step that's missing that reduction step. Right now I stuck it into .ceiling, but feels like it's missing elsewhere
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20:30 ufobat the rest is  XML::XPath::ExprOperator::* ; *::Div and *::Plus
20:33 ufobat if you see a 4/2 its probably the div operator
20:34 ufobat not sure what XML does, but i'd expect its more a less a "4" / "2"
20:35 IOninja ufobat: well, I've just pushed a temporary fix. If you build it you can resume your work. I'll try hunting where the <4/2> Rat gets made and see if a better fix can be made
20:36 ufobat IOninja, awesome :) thanks for your help!
20:36 IOninja Thanks for the bug!
20:36 * IOninja bites into the sandwich
20:36 IOninja Yummy
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20:50 RabidGravy not digging this new  style on github
20:50 sena_kun joined #perl6
20:51 IOninja yeah, it's pretty gross
20:52 gfldex it does provide a clear separation between github stuff and a repo
20:53 yqt joined #perl6
20:54 geekosaur http://userstyles.org/styles/37035 ftw
20:55 geekosaur also http://userstyles.org/styles/121315
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21:17 * [Coke] guesses he's on the other side of an A/B split on github.
21:19 geekosaur mm, possibly I am too, in which case I presume my style is about to break :/
21:19 * geekosaur thought loading it in an incognito window looked different from what he recalled of unstyled though
21:21 pyrimidine joined #perl6
21:23 [Coke] the top menu bar changed color if I'm not logged in, that seems to be it.
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22:21 travis-ci Doc build errored. Samantha McVey 'Try and highlight the m and rx in m// and rx// differently'
22:21 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/200444907 https://github.com/perl6/doc/com​pare/84a1c452de4d...8cd3001dbf5a
22:21 travis-ci left #perl6
22:22 samcv looks like it just timed out
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22:25 timotimo travis has been acting a bit strange lately
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22:43 El_Che \o/ my fist implementation of syntax checking for perl6 in vim using rakudo JSON error output is kind of workingç
22:43 El_Che !
22:43 jnthn :)
22:43 jnthn Cool!
22:44 jnthn .oO( mighta been quicker to use your fingers, but whatever works... )
22:44 El_Che previous version used regex, but this is way cooler
22:45 jnthn *nod*
22:45 jnthn Yeah, a bunch more robust
22:46 El_Che I wouldn't call it robust there, but it will get there :)
22:48 perlpilot "rakudo JSON error output"?
22:49 vktec joined #perl6
22:51 timotimo yep
22:51 El_Che perlpilot: RAKUDO_EXCEPTIONS_HANDLER=1
22:51 timotimo um, 1? not JSON?
22:52 El_Che JSON
22:52 El_Che sorry
22:53 vktec I'm considering learning Perl6. What are the downsides of it?
22:53 El_Che If anyone is interested, this branch works: https://github.com/nxadm/syntastic-perl6/tree/json
22:53 timotimo performance isn't very good, that's definitely a downside of perl6 at the moment
22:53 El_Che It needs a lot of cleanup and some todo (e.g., highlight error instead of margin)
22:54 perlpilot vktec: The main downsides are its newness and performance.  But it's otherwise very nice.
22:54 El_Che vktec: new language, needs library (you change to be famous)
22:54 timotimo your chance*
22:54 El_Che f*ck, too tired
22:54 timotimo though you can use libraries from python and perl5 freely
22:54 perlpilot :q!
22:54 perlpilot oops
22:55 vktec Okay. How bad is the performance issue?
22:55 El_Che vktec: nice enough to force me to learn a little vimscript to have support for it
22:55 IOninja vktec: after you learn it, it'll be hard to learn other languages :)
22:55 vktec El_Che: Whoa, that's impressive! :P
22:55 vktec IOninja: Hahaha
22:55 perlpilot vktec: It's not too bad for most things that I've done with it.
22:56 vktec Okay.
22:56 perlpilot vktec: Also though, there are "escape hatches" for performance ... you can use Inline::Perl5 to talk to Perl 5 if you need to or with NativeCall, write the slow bits in C
22:56 vktec Cool
22:56 perlpilot (there are other Inline:: modules to talk to other languages too)
22:56 vktec That's a very neat feature
22:58 IOninja w00t. nanis's PR successfully fixes RT#130736 on my box.
22:58 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=130736
22:58 jnthn The concurrency/parallelism stuff can also help somewhat on performance (if it's applicable to what you're doing)
23:02 IOninja umm, wtf now it fails :S
23:04 El_Che vktec: for me, I like how expressive it is (a lot of common functions/methods are built so code can be short), modern (unique OO system, gradual typing, concurrent) and dead easy C-binding. The community is very accessible. Downsize is age (needs more libs) and speed for sometype of applications (although it's getting a lot faster).
23:04 vktec Okay, last question before I go start learning Perl6: Any good web frameworks for it yet or should I call back into Perl5 and use something like Dancer2?
23:05 vktec El_Che: Okay. The performance issue isn't really a problem for me (if performace mattered, I'd be using C), and age won't be an issue for all that long, I imagine
23:05 * vktec goes off to start learning
23:06 IOninja vktec: there are a few in the ecosystem ( http://modules.perl6.org/ ), but AFAIK none of them are really mature yet. I had reasonable success using Mojolicious via Inline::Perl5 tho
23:07 vktec Gotcha. I'll probably stick with Python for web stuff in that case, and wait for things to become a bit more mature
23:07 El_Che vktec: that's a good plan
23:08 El_Che nine gave a talk at fosdem about web + perl6 but not there yet
23:08 El_Che (some audio out of sync issue)
23:11 vktec Cool. Well, I'm gonna go learn Perl6! This a good place to start? http://perl6intro.com/
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23:18 IOninja vktec: yeah. If you already know programming https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/ could be handy. More stuff listed on this page in "For newcomers" section: https://perl6.org/resources/
23:18 gfldex vktec: we got blogs too! http://pl6anet.org/
23:19 vktec IOninja: I'll check them out. Thanks!
23:19 vktec gfldex: Ooh, I'll keep an eye on that
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