Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-03-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Voldenet m: "gżegżółka".encode('ISO-8859-2').say
00:00 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «Unknown string encoding: 'iso-8859-2'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
00:00 Voldenet m: "test".encode('ISO-8859-1').say
00:01 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «Blob[uint8]:0x<74 65 73 74>␤»
00:01 Voldenet odd
00:08 AlexDaniel m: say <a b c>.last
00:08 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «No such method 'last' for invocant of type 'List'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
00:08 AlexDaniel m: say <a b c>.end
00:08 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «2␤»
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00:16 tony-o hm
00:17 AlexDaniel o/
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00:20 tony-o when did GLOBAL::.values stop returning a list of loaded modules?
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00:22 AlexDaniel m: say <a b c>.tail
00:22 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «c␤»
00:23 geekosaur possibly the lexical module loading changes?
00:23 AlexDaniel tony-o: there's some information on http://rakudo.org/ , perhaps it is relevant
00:25 tony-o geekosaur AlexDaniel ++
00:35 tony-o is the intent with that to not allow 'require' to be passed file names?
00:36 tony-o m: say (try require "hello.pm6".IO.absolute);
00:36 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «===SORRY!===␤No such method 'IO' for invocant of type 'Any'␤»
00:37 BenGoldberg This is probably a silly idea, but would it be useful for Positional to have it's own .map(Callable) method, which returns a new Positional whose values are lazily constructed when accessed via []?
00:37 tony-o ah, nevermind
00:37 BenGoldberg m: my \result = [^5].hyper.map: { say $_; $_ }; dd result
00:37 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «HyperSeq.new␤»
00:37 tony-o that's a weird precedence, though
00:37 geekosaur m: say (try require ("hello.pm6".IO.absolute));
00:37 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «Nil␤»
00:37 geekosaur yeh
00:37 BenGoldberg m: my \result = [^5].map: { say $_; $_ }; dd result
00:37 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤(0, 1, 2, 3, 4).Seq␤»
00:38 geekosaur I suspect it's related to being able to handle either an expression or a "bareword" module name
00:39 tony-o so, now i need to figure out how to get the exported class/role from that file since require returns the path with that.  i guess it'd be the .new.WHAT
00:39 tony-o hmm..weird
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00:41 tony-o that isn't it.
00:42 BenGoldberg huggable, rakudobug
00:42 huggable BenGoldberg, Report bugs by emailing to rakudobug@perl.org
00:42 * BenGoldberg hugs huggable
00:42 BenGoldberg huggable, botsnack
00:42 synopsebot6 om nom nom
00:42 huggable BenGoldberg, nothing found
00:43 * BenGoldberg laughs.
00:43 BenGoldberg huggable, botsnack is Thank you.
00:43 synopsebot6 om nom nom
00:43 huggable BenGoldberg, nothing found
00:43 BenGoldberg huggable, botsnack :is: Thank you.
00:43 synopsebot6 om nom nom
00:43 huggable BenGoldberg, Added botsnack as Thank you.
00:43 synopsebot6 om nom nom
00:43 tony-o haha
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01:47 Geth ¦ doc: ccae74a150 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
01:47 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Fix incorrect information for IO::Path.absolute
01:47 Geth ¦ doc:
01:47 Geth ¦ doc: The method does not use `$*CWD`, but the object's CWD attribute,
01:47 Geth ¦ doc: if no base is given.
01:47 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ccae74a150
01:48 Geth ¦ doc: 3cf943d86b | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
01:48 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Expand IO::Path.relative
01:48 Geth ¦ doc:
01:48 Geth ¦ doc: - include info on what happens if the path is already relative
01:48 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3cf943d86b
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02:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:09 Geth ¦ whateverable/master: 4 commits pushed by (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++
03:09 Geth ¦ whateverable/master: 3ed10e793a | No hardcoded SHAs in Evalable tests
03:09 Geth ¦ whateverable/master: 216ba149fe | Make most Whateverable code repo-agnostic
03:09 Geth ¦ whateverable/master: 5846959781 | New bot: Bloatable
03:09 Geth ¦ whateverable/master: f3bb3e0a4d | Join #moarvm too
03:09 Geth ¦ whateverable/master: review: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/compare/9dc5935cba...f3bb3e0a4d
03:11 AlexDaniel ↑ but no build-moarvm script for it yet… :P
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03:17 BenGoldberg m: my $repo = 42; dd :$repo
03:17 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «block <unit>␤»
03:18 BenGoldberg m: my $repo = 42; dd $:repo
03:18 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot use placeholder parameter $:repo outside of a sub or block␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $repo = 42; dd $:repo7⏏5<EOL>␤»
03:18 BenGoldberg m: my $r = 42; say item :$r;
03:18 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «()␤»
03:18 BenGoldberg m: my $r = 42; dd item $:r;
03:18 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot use placeholder parameter $:r outside of a sub or block␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $r = 42; dd item $:r7⏏5;␤»
03:20 BenGoldberg m: my $r = 42; my $z = :$r;
03:20 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: ( no output )
03:20 BenGoldberg m: my $r = 42; my $z = :$r; say $z
03:20 camelia rakudo-moar a01d67: OUTPUT: «r => 42␤»
03:20 BenGoldberg AlexDaniel, you only used it in one place, but 'repo => $repo' is probably better written as ':$repo'
03:20 AlexDaniel BenGoldberg: oh… right
03:21 AlexDaniel that's actually what the rest of the code is using
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03:23 Geth ¦ whateverable: c4a763b66c | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | Whateverable.pm6
03:23 Geth ¦ whateverable: Tiny code style tweak
03:23 Geth ¦ whateverable: review: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/commit/c4a763b66c
03:25 AlexDaniel BenGoldberg: if only somebody refactored the whole code for Bloatable and Unicodable… *wink-wink*
03:25 AlexDaniel :)
03:27 BenGoldberg I don't quite get what bloatable does...
03:27 * BenGoldberg shrugs
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03:32 geekosaur tells you how much actual memory a binary will use, without running it
03:32 geekosaur chasing down shared objects etc.
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04:27 adu hi
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05:10 u-ou hi
05:17 samcv hi
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05:33 masak morning, #perl6
05:34 samcv hope you are all good at $present-time
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06:35 samcv ok i have the wiki page that supposidly has the most languages
06:35 samcv 345 languages this article is in. this should be sufficient for adding more unicode tests :)
06:35 samcv this is the page btw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kur%C3%B3w
06:38 samcv though this one might be better. has 285 wikis languages (previous one included test wikis in the count) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland
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07:36 Todd_ Hi All!   What am I doing wrong here?
07:37 Todd_ perl6 -e 'my @x=<a b c>;my @y=<x y z>; push(@x, @y); for @x -> $I {say $I;}'
07:37 Todd_ a b c [x y z]
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07:37 Woodi hi Todd_
07:37 Woodi I think push(@x,...)
07:37 Woodi ,slip @y ?
07:37 Todd_ what I am after is `a b c x y z`     And I don't what to create a new array, just add to the first one
07:37 Woodi or flat
07:38 DrForr m: my @x=1,2;my @y=3,4;append(@x,@y); say @x;
07:38 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «[1 2 3 4]␤»
07:38 Todd_ perl6 -e 'my @x=<a b c>;my @y=<x y z>; push(@x, slip @y); for @x -> $I {say $I;}' a b c x y z
07:38 Todd_ perfect.  let me append too
07:39 Todd_ perl6 -e 'my @x=<a b c>;my @y=<x y z>; append(@x, @y); for @x -> $I {say $I;}' a b c x y z
07:39 Todd_ perfect too.  Thank you guys!
07:39 DrForr No worries. How'd you find out about perl6?
07:40 mcmillhj joined #perl6
07:41 DrForr (also, that's one of the first mildly annoying things I ran into.)
07:43 Todd_ I got an email from infoworld.  I adore Perl5 and LOVE Perl6.  Some Perl5 guys are crabby about Perl6, but I seriously don't get it.  P6 is a beautiful clean up of P5, especially the stone age/assembly code like data transfer to subs.
07:45 DrForr Oo, Infoworld, I used to get their magazines when they were in print.
07:45 Todd_ And I get what I was doing wrong.  I was placing the entire @y into the next element of @x.  No soup for me!
07:45 DrForr Yeah, it's a little confusing because the semantics of push() didn't change, how arrays behave changed.
07:46 Todd_ Inforworld is mostly publish or perish and doesn't have a lot of good stuff, just rehash.  But sometimes, they can be of use.
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07:46 Todd_ Google and DuckDuckGo has a hard time finding p6 stuff.  They think you mispelled P5
07:47 Woodi re sockets and packets in TCPvsUDP: looks STCP could be used becouse it have UDP packet "semantic". it would be nice if Perl6 was leading in STCP adoption (assuming STCP is good thing) :)
07:47 DrForr I think Google figures you were misspelling Python :)
07:49 Todd_ which is why I get array pushing hashes onto arrays, which I can't resist!
07:50 Woodi Todd_: I like Perl5 args transfer :) and being "assembly" is good for potential native code generation :)
07:50 Woodi modulo PMC ;)
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07:52 Todd_ P5's args are a nightmare for maintaninability.  And it drives me nuts having to pass Reference Pointers to arrays and hashes when I mix several variables in the call. P6 is a sub dream come true!
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07:56 Todd_ if it is of any interest to yu guys, I am programing right now over over the Interent with "ssh -X11" and Geany.  There is a little drag, but it is usable.
07:57 DrForr I've spent enough time teaching perl5 calling syntax that I really appreciate not having to worry about the referene distinctions.
07:57 DrForr *reference
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08:00 Todd_ The way I look at it, I am using a high level language for a reason.  The purpose is so I can code faster.  (I have written in Assembly before.  It is super fast and takes super, super longer to write.  What a pain in the neck!)
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08:04 Woodi ok, I'm not even a programmer but you didn't convince me (totally), stil like it :)  but good points
08:05 Woodi btw. do perl5 have a jit ? I didn't hear about... could it help in performance ?
08:06 u-ou what does .= do
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08:08 Woodi u-ou: it's sugar for $x = $x . $y ? ;)
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08:10 u-ou oh right, heh
08:10 Woodi https://docs.perl6.org/language/operators#postfix_.=
08:11 Woodi u-ou: good question :)
08:11 samcv i don't think perl 5 has JIT Woodi
08:11 Todd_ PrintRed "$Backup is running\n";  exit 1;
08:12 samcv they are very different codebases. perl 6 runs on MoarVM which runs generated bytecode (compiled by Rakudo)
08:12 samcv perl 5 is basically a bunch of C code that compiles on the fly, so it's not a great comparison
08:12 Todd_ I get the red text, but "exit 1" does not dump me out of the program.  What am I doing wrong (I don't want to use "die")
08:12 u-ou does rakudo still run on jvm too or just moar
08:12 samcv well not totally on the fly, but upon running the file.
08:12 samcv rakudo runs on jvm too
08:13 Todd_ Indeed.  C, less the headache
08:13 samcv it's not as good though
08:13 samcv also perl 6 is programmed a lot in perl 6
08:13 samcv and also in nqp which is like a bare bones perl 6 scaffolding code. like perl 6 but nothing fancy
08:13 u-ou not quite perl
08:13 samcv perl 5 is written all in C (i believe)
08:14 u-ou what's nqp written in?
08:14 samcv nqp. and uh. magic
08:14 u-ou ahh
08:14 samcv nqp compiles itself
08:14 u-ou nice
08:15 samcv which i guess is the magic part of it. when you check out the repository, you get the stage 0 binaries
08:15 samcv err. moarvm bytecode
08:15 samcv and rakudo complies itself too
08:15 samcv Rakudo is built on perl 6 and nqp, which is built on nqp and moarvm
08:16 samcv uhm perl 6 also only requires single pass parsing
08:16 samcv very different from perl 5 in that way
08:17 u-ou perl6 is the future
08:18 samcv i think so! and hope so!
08:18 u-ou what major projects are implemented in p6?
08:18 u-ou (besides itself)
08:18 Todd_ from the manual on exit: `Exits the current process with return code $status.`  what do they mean by "process"?  The sub you are in or the whole program?
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08:20 samcv u-ou, perl 6 is the biggest project programmed in perl 6 :)
08:21 samcv though uh. not any major ones anybody would know about
08:21 samcv idk there's web frameworks and some stuff like that
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08:22 samcv u-ou, people have implemented their own invented languages in perl 6 as well
08:22 samcv using perl 6's parsing engine with their own syntax
08:23 u-ou ahh :)
08:23 samcv Todd_, u-ou https://modules.perl6.org/#sort-col=3&amp;sort-dir=d
08:23 samcv look at most popular plugins
08:23 u-ou so it would be good for writing compilers?
08:23 u-ou I suppose that question's already answered
08:23 samcv bailador is the web framework
08:24 samcv yeah you can basically even make your own 'slangs' and modify how perl 6 code you write is written
08:24 samcv like alter the parser
08:24 u-ou like lisp?
08:24 samcv u-ou, this comes to mind https://github.com/FROGGS/p6-Slang-Tuxic
08:24 samcv not like lisp
08:24 Todd_ that is a list of moduels and pass fail.  What was I suppose to see?
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08:25 samcv uh sort by stars
08:25 samcv and just you can look at the list. was meant to give overview of some of the moduling/apps written in perl 6
08:26 samcv reading the grammar tutorial will be educational
08:26 samcv https://docs.perl6.org/language/grammar_tutorial
08:26 Todd_ Construct an insulting epithet in the manner of an old IRC bot
08:26 samcv since perl 6 is parsed using grammars
08:26 samcv sounds useful
08:27 Todd_ bookmarked.  Thank you!
08:27 Todd_ Am I stuck with using "die"?
08:28 samcv what are you trying to do?
08:28 samcv throw an error? are you a past perl 5 programmer?
08:29 samcv perl 6 will throw and show errors without having to do `condition or die $!`
08:29 samcv though you can catch errors if you want, but they automatically throw
08:29 u-ou m: my $a = 1; my $b = :$a; say $b.WHAT
08:29 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «(Pair)␤»
08:29 u-ou m: my $a = 1; my $b = :$a; say $b
08:29 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «a => 1␤»
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08:30 samcv i have not found a use for that yet. maybe someday. i don't think it's visually evident what it actually does
08:30 samcv but that's just me
08:31 samcv m: say :blah, :what
08:31 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «Unexpected named argument 'blah' passed␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
08:31 samcv m: say (:blah, :what)
08:31 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «(blah => True what => True)␤»
08:31 Todd_ What is the best method of forcing the entire program to terminate
08:31 samcv m: say (:blah(False), :what)
08:31 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «(blah => False what => True)␤»
08:31 samcv Todd_, exit
08:31 samcv well die works too
08:31 samcv if you want a backtrace
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08:32 u-ou say (:blah('False'))
08:32 u-ou m: say (:blah('False'))
08:32 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «blah => False␤»
08:32 samcv m: say (:blah(11), :what)
08:32 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «(blah => 11 what => True)␤»
08:32 samcv that's most useful specifying command line arguments i think
08:32 u-ou m: say (:blah('Fals'))
08:32 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «blah => Fals␤»
08:33 u-ou m: say (:blah('Fals')).perl
08:33 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «:blah("Fals")␤»
08:33 samcv sub foo ( Bool :$named-arg = False) { }; foo(:named-arg)
08:33 samcv u-ou, that's the most useful spot for that
08:33 samcv imo.
08:33 Todd_ Ah, short between the headset again.  I was in a loop and I had "last" before the "exit". I got rid of the "last" and now it is operating as expected.  No soup for me again!
08:33 samcv with named arguments
08:33 u-ou https://docs.perl6.org/language/classtut
08:33 u-ou samcv: see Constructors for an ex
08:34 u-ou I think I get it now
08:34 samcv ah
08:34 samcv yeah
08:34 samcv those are named arguments
08:34 u-ou so the method takes away the namedness of the arguments
08:34 samcv m: sub foo (:$named ) { say $named }; foo(:named('word'))
08:34 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «word␤»
08:34 Todd_ Is "last" suppose to go to the "last" element or just exit the loop and not execure anything under it?
08:35 samcv see that u-ou
08:35 u-ou aha
08:35 samcv Todd_, it exits the current for loop
08:35 samcv or while loop etc
08:35 u-ou didn't see it could go the other way too!
08:35 u-ou that's actually quite nice
08:35 samcv perl 6 is magic
08:36 samcv u-ou, that section on constructors is pretted advanced implementation details
08:36 samcv i mean normally you won't use constructors yourself. ever
08:36 samcv you'll declare your classes normally
08:36 u-ou so it says
08:36 samcv ah. good
08:36 Todd_ my misunderstanding.  Thank you!
08:36 u-ou yeah, i'd just use new
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08:38 u-ou but I could see myself wishing for constructors which don't require argument-naming
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08:52 Todd_ Calling it a night.  Thank you guys for all the help!
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08:53 u-ou nn
08:53 u-ou nn
08:54 nebuchadnezzar hello
08:56 nebuchadnezzar reading some type documentation, I wonder if the “Type graph” could not be displayed before the table of contents…
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09:09 samcv nebuchadnezzar, i have thought similar before
09:09 samcv or maybe right after it or something
09:09 samcv higher up at least
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10:23 Geth ¦ ecosystem: gfldex++ created pull request #312: add Proc::Async::Timeout
10:23 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/312
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10:49 gfldex m: sub f { gather for 1,2,3 { LEAVE say „oi‽“; .take } }; say f;
10:49 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «oi‽␤oi‽␤oi‽␤(1 2 3)␤»
10:50 gfldex this is kind of a superposition of wrong and right
10:50 timotimo m: sub f { for 1, 2, 3 { LEAVE say "oi?"; 1 } }; say f
10:50 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «oi?␤oi?␤oi?␤Nil␤»
10:50 timotimo m: for 1, 2, 3 { LEAVE say "oi?"; 1 }
10:50 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of constant integer 1 in sink context (line 1)␤oi?␤oi?␤oi?␤»
10:50 timotimo the block is left every time, even in a basic for loop
10:51 gfldex m: sub f { do for 1, 2, 3 { LEAVE say "oi?"; 1 } }; say f
10:51 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «oi?␤oi?␤oi?␤(1 1 1)␤»
10:51 timotimo nothing to do with continuations here
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10:51 timotimo also, when we take continuations, we don't invoke every leave phaser up to the end
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10:51 timotimo we don't have a phaser for that concept at all, i don't think
10:52 gfldex m: sub f { gather for 1,2,3 { LAST say „oi‽“; .take } }; say f;
10:52 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «oi‽␤(1 2 3)␤»
10:52 astj joined #perl6
10:52 gfldex ENEEDMORETEA on my side I guess
10:52 timotimo m: sub f { gather for 1,2,3 { LAST say „oi‽“; .take } }; say f[^1];
10:52 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «(1)␤»
10:52 timotimo m: sub f { gather for 1,2,3 { LAST say „oi‽“; .take } }; say f[^3];
10:52 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «(1 2 3)␤»
10:52 timotimo m: sub f { gather for 1,2,3 { LAST say „oi‽“; .take } }; say f[^4];
10:52 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «oi‽␤(1 2 3 Nil)␤»
10:52 timotimo :)
10:52 gfldex timotimo: I'm glad you where wrong too :)
10:53 timotimo i was wrong?
10:53 timotimo sorry, when i said "up to the end" i meant "up to the root"
10:56 gfldex timotimo: you where wrong in that Perl 6 doesnt got a phaser for that concept.
10:56 timotimo you misunderstood my concept
10:57 timotimo i meant that we don't have a phaser that runs when a continuation gets taken that includes the frame the phaser is installed for
10:58 gfldex I really need some tea. :)
10:59 timotimo tea is good
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11:13 nebuchadnezzar Erf, server not found: https://doc.perl6.org/https://docs.perl6.org/
11:13 gfldex nebuchadnezzar: works here
11:14 nebuchadnezzar gfldex: now it works here too
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11:15 nebuchadnezzar samcv: today it's just after TOC but the TOC can be quite long, for example https://docs.perl6.org/type/NFD
11:20 gfldex is RTs e-mail pickup broken or just slow?
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11:35 geekosaur only runs every couple hours in my experience
11:35 geekosaur or maybe it's just slow, but I always seem to get perl RT mail in batches
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11:45 Ulti WRT https://www.learningperl6.com/2017/03/23/close-enough/ is there any reason we dont include all the superscript constants as exponentiators?
11:47 Ulti I guess it means superscript i in the metadata from unicode doesnt include a numeric value
11:47 Ulti or that i specifically is Complex I guess makes it special cased
11:54 Ulti oh there is no pi its just i
11:58 SmokeMachine m: say (:!bla)
11:58 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «bla => False␤»
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12:23 DrForr Sadly there is no superscript π, just looked.
12:23 Ulti yeah
12:23 Ulti its weird
12:23 DrForr Otherwise e<sup>iπ</sup>-1==0 # could be a valid equation.
12:23 Ulti its not used in IPA I guess
12:24 Ulti kind of surprised there isnt a generic character you use in combination for sub and sup
12:24 DrForr Nope, thought of that too. TURNED ALPHA is the closest there.
12:24 Ulti 1 2 and 3 as superscript are in the latin block too away from all the others
12:24 Ulti for some reason there is n as well as i
12:25 DrForr Well, as long as ½τ==π (which it does, as long as you use INVISIBLE TIMES) I'm happy )
12:25 DrForr s/.$/:)/
12:27 timotimo "can't find variable ½τ, if you want to multiply τ by ½, please write ½
12:27 timotimo please write ½τ instead"
12:29 DrForr As long as you use \c[INVISIBLE TIMES] between 1/2 and tau and define infix:<<\c[INVISIBLE TIMES]>>{[*]@_} :)
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12:30 DrForr (as I alluded to)
12:32 Ulti can you use unicode solidus for division too?
12:33 DrForr If it's not there you can probably create an infix for it.
12:34 timotimo right
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12:57 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 35ae67d04f | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | META.list
12:57 Geth ¦ ecosystem: add Proc::Async::Timeout (#312)
12:57 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/35ae67d04f
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13:03 Voldenet What's a good way to use two-way pipe-like communication in perl6?
13:03 Voldenet I think I could use two channels, but maybe there's better way
13:04 [Coke] http://news.perlfoundation.org/2017/03/new-grant-committee-member-sec.html
13:04 gfldex m: say "⁢".uniname
13:04 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «INVISIBLE TIMES␤»
13:05 gfldex m: say 4⁢2;
13:05 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Bogus postfix␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 47⏏5⁢2;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤        st…»
13:05 timotimo Voldenet: two channels is the simplest thing, but maybe you can re-order your whole thing to use a simpler idiom?
13:06 gfldex m: multi sub infix:<⁢>(\a, \b){ a * b }; say 4⁢2;
13:06 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «8␤»
13:06 Voldenet Well, what I want is basically two-way pubsub, no real way around it I guess
13:06 gfldex copypasta of "⁢" is really hard :->
13:06 timotimo yes
13:08 Voldenet Okay, since I'm full of questions, there's a bonus one
13:08 Voldenet m: "gżegżółka".encode('ISO-8859-2').say
13:08 camelia rakudo-moar e87179: OUTPUT: «Unknown string encoding: 'iso-8859-2'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
13:08 raschipi Voldenet: fire away
13:08 Voldenet How can I add my own encoding? :)
13:09 Voldenet I could probably use libiconv somehow
13:10 timotimo you can't add custom encoders/decoders yet, but work on that is under way
13:10 timotimo so until then you'll have to do stuff like encode it to utf8 and nativecall into (for example) libiconv
13:11 raschipi timotimo: Or he could send a patch so that P6does what he wants? Or would it be turned down?
13:12 timotimo it'd be a patch to moarvm
13:12 Voldenet Uhm, I actually wouldn't mind getting a patch into moarvm for that, but I was going for the hacky way
13:12 Voldenet also, perl6 might choose to implement it from scratch
13:12 Voldenet instead of using iconv, which might not be very multiplatform choice
13:12 Voldenet s/perl6/moarvm/
13:13 timotimo yeah, moarvm wouldn't use iconv at all
13:14 timotimo you can't really steal from the latin1 implementation because that basically just 1:1's unicode codepoints
13:14 lizmat fwiw, I think we want to include all of the 8859 encodings out of the box
13:14 timotimo maybe, they are similar enough to be easy-ish to implement
13:14 timotimo just have a bunch of tables
13:15 lizmat and I think that's been done in P5 already as well  :-)
13:15 timotimo we can't steal from the perl5 implementation, though?
13:15 timotimo it's probably too different?
13:15 lizmat probably, but the tables would be there  :-)
13:15 Voldenet you could generate perl6 with perl5
13:15 lizmat and in a form that could be easily mangled
13:15 Voldenet now that's 5m4a7g8i3c ;)
13:16 lizmat Voldenet: indeed
13:17 timotimo well, you can also just use Inline::Perl5 :)
13:17 Voldenet :>
13:17 Voldenet now that's the hack I'd try to avoid
13:19 lizmat being able to support all of the encodings that P5 supports, would seem like a worthy goal and relatively LHF
13:19 lizmat afk again&
13:19 timotimo EBCDIC :) :)
13:19 DrForr Well, Perl::ToPerl6 generates Perl6 frm Perl 5 :) (albeit badly, and haven't worked much on it recently...)
13:20 raschipi timotimo: All EBCDICS? There's more than one. And 6-bit encodings?
13:20 Voldenet I hope we get ITA2 support in case I need to talk to someone in the past
13:20 raschipi "You are in a maze of twisty little encodings, all alike"
13:21 DrForr UTF-94LYF
13:21 Voldenet I didn't know utf had such standards
13:21 timotimo are 6-bit encodings tightly packed or does every unit have 2 padding bits at the end of it?
13:22 Voldenet probably they are packed only when they're transported over the wire
13:22 Voldenet I don't think 8n-bit cpus are good at handling 6-bit texts
13:22 timotimo yeah
13:22 timotimo DrForr: UTF-94 sounds very wasteful :)
13:23 raschipi They were used to fit 6 charachters into a 36 bit word in 36 bit computers
13:23 Voldenet now base65536 is a cool stuff though
13:23 DrForr UTF9 was a joke RFC, but I still have a back-burner notion to implement the bastard :)
13:24 raschipi 36 bit computers had a 6 character limit on file names to be able to fit them into a single word
13:24 raschipi source: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/things-every-hacker-once-knew
13:25 chansen_ Unicode provides mappings for all ISO 8859 encodings, http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/ISO8859/
13:25 timotimo cool, we can use those to generate our code
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13:44 raschipi Then there's also the uncommon non-joke Unicode encodings, like SCSU, BOCU-1, UTF-1, UTF-7, UTF-EBCDIC, GB18030 and Punycode.
13:44 timotimo hm, punycode is really only meant for short strings, no?
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13:44 timotimo and not suited for streaming?
13:45 raschipi It's used to write internationalized domain names
13:46 timotimo i know
13:46 raschipi I don't know if it's suitable for streaming, or how does it compare to Base64
13:47 raschipi Don't know if it's MIME safe either.
13:47 timotimo i believe punycode slurps up all non-7bit characters while going through the string and then it gets appended to the string
13:48 timotimo "it" being the state of the state machine
13:50 timotimo so if you want to stream some text over a wire, you'll get only the ascii parts until the stream ends
13:50 timotimo and then you'll get a whole blob of insertions you have to do throughout that ascii part
13:50 raschipi Yep, section 3.1 of RFC3492
13:50 timotimo i'd say "module space" for that
13:50 timotimo huggable: eco punycode
13:50 huggable timotimo, nothing found
13:50 timotimo which bot does eco again? :\
13:51 timotimo buggable: eco punycode
13:51 buggable timotimo, IDNA::Punycode 'Punycode implementation according to RFC3492': https://github.com/FROGGS/p6-IDNA-Punycode
13:52 raschipi Very easy to implement, though.
13:52 timotimo yeah, just "use IDNA::Punycode" :P
13:53 raschipi buggable: eco IDNA
13:53 buggable raschipi, IDNA::Punycode 'Punycode implementation according to RFC3492': https://github.com/FROGGS/p6-IDNA-Punycode
13:54 pmurias is UTF-1 used for anything?
13:55 raschipi pmurias: No, UTF-8 was created to fix it.
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14:05 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 91a8972780 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list
14:05 Geth ¦ ecosystem: s/META.info/META6.json/
14:05 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
14:05 Geth ¦ ecosystem: For:
14:05 Geth ¦ ecosystem: - drforr/perl6-readline
14:05 Geth ¦ ecosystem: - drforr/perl6-Inline-Scheme-Guile
14:05 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/91a8972780
14:08 DrForr Sigh. I really need to get that Dist::6Zilla or whatever done.
14:11 adu joined #perl6
14:12 raschipi Did zoffix stopped being so rude? Will he come back?
14:13 DrForr Waitaminnit, rude?
14:16 buggable joined #perl6
14:16 raschipi Wasn't the problem that he was rude when people disagreed with his proposed solutions?
14:17 DrForr I haven't been watching closely enough.
14:18 buggable joined #perl6
14:18 DrForr And that was just in reaction to "Woops, forgot to update that repo as well..., boy, wish there were an automator for that. Oh, right, was planning to do that."
14:21 b2gills raschipi: Zoffix never left, he just kept changing his nick
14:24 [Coke] He's right behind me, isn't he?
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14:37 AlexDaniel heh… well… Firefox now requires pulseaudio
14:37 AlexDaniel so should I install pulseaudio or switch to another browser? Hmmmm… tough choice
14:39 raschipi b2gills: K
14:47 skids switch.
14:47 skids That's what I'll be doing eventually.  Never pulseaudio ever again.
14:47 skids It has burned way too much of my time, it is cut off.
14:49 raschipi Other browsers will soon follow suit. Everything but Pulse and Jack has been left to rot.
14:49 skids Hopefully I'll be able to find something with a separate and persistent search term entry box.
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14:50 skids Well, I wouldn't mind jack but I'm kinda getting sick of having repatch it to diable dbus and get it running as a system daemon again.
14:50 AlexDaniel skids: I'll try using pulseaudio for now. I'd say it at least deserves a chance…
14:50 raschipi Even Jack will soon stop maintaining their Pulse-less mode.
14:51 AlexDaniel skids: using chromium is not a real choice for me giving that my keyboard layout is simply not working there…
14:51 skids Looks like I'll be patching browsers, instead, then.
14:51 skids Oh yeah, emacs keybindings probably are going to be another PITA to find.
14:51 raschipi skids: Firefox still has the code to work without Pulse, but one has to build it from source to activate it.
14:52 skids Yeah but they'll be excluding that code soon enough.
14:53 skids I simply do not understand why we can run a display server as a system service, but an audio server can;t hack that.
14:54 raschipi What? Both X.org and Wayland run as user services and there has been significant work to make they run without suid root.
14:54 raschipi Why do you think they run outside the user session?
14:54 skids I want daemons to be able to make sounds when I'm logged out.
14:55 raschipi Pulse does have a system-mode. Which distro are you using
14:55 raschipi ?
14:55 skids Debian.
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14:55 raschipi It even had a bug where it spilled it's own configuration on / when running on system mode.
14:55 skids But I'm never touching Pulse again, I'm fully convinced it's evil.  You know hwt has "system mode?"  ALSA.
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15:03 raschipi Well, the ALSA sound server is buggy, difficult to use and lacking many features users expect. It will be abandoned soon.
15:11 Voldenet Hm, how do I use destructors in perl6 (or more on the topic - can I add some async cleanup to the end of the async block, because this wouldn't be possible in destructors?)
15:11 raschipi Voldenet: when do you want them to be called?
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15:12 Voldenet hm, at the end of the given block, would be best
15:12 Voldenet start { my $res = await resources(); await do($res); }
15:13 Voldenet but then resources are sockets, so they need to be closed, which I'd prefer to have automatic
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15:13 raschipi There's a LEAVE phaser, that will execute when leaving a block: https://docs.perl6.org/language/phasers#LEAVE
15:14 Voldenet Nice, can I await in LEAVE block?
15:14 Voldenet s/block/phaser/
15:14 raschipi You mean in the sense of blocking?
15:14 raschipi Block the process waiting?
15:14 Voldenet something like that:
15:15 raschipi Try it and tell me.
15:15 Voldenet start { my $res = await resources(); await do($res); await cleanup($res); }
15:15 AlexDaniel you can do whatever you want in LEAVE
15:15 jnthn Don't think I've ever done await in a LEAVE block, but can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work :)
15:16 Voldenet wow, it's magic, it actually works :)
15:17 AlexDaniel jnthn: re RT #131003: I tried commenting out gumbo_destroy_output and it still crashes. Didn't have time to catch in under valgrind this way though, but it feels that there's something else going on
15:17 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131003
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15:49 raschipi This table should be updated to include RakudoJS: https://perl6.org/compilers/features
15:51 perlpilot raschipi: the repo is listed at the bottom of the page.  Make a PR
15:52 perlpilot Though looking at it, that page hasn't been kept up-to-date anyway.
15:53 skids AlexDaniel: I hate browser shopping but did some anyway.  Gonna drive qupzilla around the block a bit.
15:54 AlexDaniel skids: interesting
16:02 jnthn AlexDaniel: OK, all further golfing efforts on it welcome until I find some time to try and reproduce/explore it myself (as usual, I've a pile of stuff to work on :))
16:10 gfldex DrForr: to be fair, we didn't do a good job at advertising https://github.com/jonathanstowe/Test-META
16:12 DrForr No worries.
16:13 raschipi masak: How is the work on macros going?
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17:16 Voldenet Is there any way to ensure that the some method is given proper lambda method?
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17:19 perlpilot "proper lambda method"?
17:19 Voldenet something like: sub execute(Sub[Int, :returns Int] &code) returns Int { &code(2); }
17:20 perlpilot I don't know if it works like that, but surely you can use a where clause to check the signature of the thing passed
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17:21 gfldex Voldenet: see https://docs.perl6.org/type/Signature#Constraining_signatures_of_Callables
17:21 Voldenet That's the syntax I was looking for, thanks
17:21 perlpilot ah, gfldex++
17:21 Voldenet gfldex++
17:22 * perlpilot needs to do more Perl 6 so that some of this "edge" info migrates closer to the "center" in my brain
17:22 * Voldenet has given up on trying to know all of it
17:23 gfldex perlpilot: i found it useful to remeber where to find stuff in to docs :)
17:23 SmokeMachine ugexe: hi! i was brainstorming about zen, and got a idea that I tried to PoC... its not done and probably its not even working... bu could you tell me what you think please? https://github.com/FCO/zef/commit/607cf49ea85cbd4490bfef73a7079a9c2173bb3c
17:23 perlpilot I don't need to know all of it right off, but if there's a path to such information in my brain, that's preferable.
17:24 perlpilot gfldex: Aye, that's a very good strategy. :)
17:27 SmokeMachine .tell ugexe: hi! i was brainstorming about zen, and got a idea that I tried to PoC... its not done and probably its not even working... bu could you tell me what you think please? https://github.com/FCO/zef/commit/607cf49ea85cbd4490bfef73a7079a9c2173bb3c
17:27 yoleaux SmokeMachine: What kind of a name is "ugexe:"?!
17:27 gfldex SmokeMachine: he seams to have taken it from the same book then I did :)
17:27 SmokeMachine .tell ugexe hi! i was brainstorming about zen, and got a idea that I tried to PoC... its not done and probably its not even working... bu could you tell me what you think please? https://github.com/FCO/zef/commit/607cf49ea85cbd4490bfef73a7079a9c2173bb3c
17:27 yoleaux SmokeMachine: I'll pass your message to ugexe.
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17:49 ugexe SmokeMachine: I'm not against exposing something like that, but the solution should try to avoid the need to duplicate the signatures in yet another spot. The thing is - they definitely have to go in the &MAIN signature so they show up for USAGE stuff... so you could just use `sub zef-whatever(%_) { ... }` except all the logic is now the `...` and has to use %_ instead of  named variables
17:49 yoleaux 17:27Z <SmokeMachine> ugexe: hi! i was brainstorming about zen, and got a idea that I tried to PoC... its not done and probably its not even working... bu could you tell me what you think please? https://github.com/FCO/zef/commit/607cf49ea85cbd4490bfef73a7079a9c2173bb3c
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17:54 ugexe the other key thing is that only &MAIN should be printing to stdout, exiting, or aborting. zef-* commands would communicate through a Supply still (Zef::Client.logger)
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18:54 SmokeMachine ugexe: what do you think about use the help message as usage? like this: https://github.com/FCO/zef/commit/64a46aaf9951499cb7263007cccce58907c53264
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18:59 tony-o hiker should be up to snuff for the upcoming `require` scoping changes
19:00 tony-o for those following along
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19:02 m44st4 ptain c'est quoi ces gadgets en carton mouillé pour le rop arm basic
19:02 m44st4 j'ai mal
19:03 m44st4 sorry wrong channel
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19:37 AlexDaniel huggable: bots
19:37 huggable AlexDaniel, The #perl6 irc channel normally hosts several helpful bots. I am a bot, and everyone else voiced on this channel is a bot. See the full list here: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/711#issuecomment-235414744
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19:42 geekosaur we're bebotted
19:43 lizmat so much better than botoxed  :-)
19:50 * ingy needs to retox
19:50 ingy too early here...
19:51 ingy they tried to send me back to retox, and I said: Yes. Yes. Yes.
20:04 mst ingy: I quit drinking once
20:04 mst ingy: it was the worst 20 minutes of my life
20:04 ingy ba-dum
20:05 jraglin joined #perl6
20:08 perlpilot Surely you quit drinking every day ... it's called "sleep"
20:16 perigrin IV
20:16 ugexe SmokeMachine: that doesnt help for incorrect options/flags
20:18 ugexe or maybe I misunderstand... what does that change?
20:18 lizmat SmokeMachine: welcome!
20:19 * geekosaur *was* angling toward "besotted"... in its older meaning
20:21 hobbs I think you can still use "sotted" that way
20:22 lizmat oddly enough, "zot" is "fool" in flemish
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20:24 AlexDaniel hm, so we have less than 10% of bots here
20:25 AlexDaniel clearly need more
20:25 raschipi We need ALL the Bots!
20:27 SmokeMachine ugexe: I think I was confused... sorry... looks that doesn't change anything... sorry!
20:27 SmokeMachine lizmat: thanks! :)
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20:42 masak raschipi: the work on macros is time-constrained but going well, I'd say
20:42 masak raschipi: I got a couple commits into 007 yesterday
20:43 raschipi Well,  I'm glad you're still at it. Time constrained isn't a big problem because I don't think anyone is pushing to release 6.d anytime soon.
20:45 masak at this point, I'm not willing to target any particular 6.* release anyway
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20:45 raschipi Is it working like you want in 007?
20:46 mst I sincerely doubt this could get banged out for 6.d without regretting it
20:46 mst unless 6.d takes significantly longer than I'd expect
20:46 mst the above statement is about the nature of the task rather than any form of criticism
20:47 mst if you let me imagine a world where I could pick a team of people to work on it full time, I'd believe the same thing in that world, due to the "needs real use by varied users" part
20:47 masak raschipi: no, not yet. but mostly because of said time constraint.
20:47 perlpilot Perl 6 has never rushed before, why would we start now?
20:47 raschipi Well, other groups were unable to do it in decades, so it's natural to expect the same time horizon for P6. This isn't criticism, anything shorter than that will just show you guys are awesomer.
20:48 masak not sure why people are suddenly talking about rushing
20:48 masak haven't been rushing macros so far ;)
20:48 geekosaur "never rushed before" where were you before Christmas?
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20:49 geekosaur we're *still* paying for that to some extent
20:49 mst I think perlpilot and I both took raschipi's 6.d comments to imply a shorter development time scale than we should realistically expect
20:49 mst and therein the confusion
20:49 masak geekosaur: I think we're talking about two different things
20:49 raschipi Well, I didn't mean it should be released with 6.d, just that it would be released *at least* with 6.d. Or later.
20:50 masak geekosaur: I've been thinking about, and implementing, macros for Perl 6 since late 2011
20:50 mst geekosaur: drawing a line in the sand at -some- point had to be done, though - I don't think there'd've likely been any less rush with another year spent waiting
20:50 perlpilot indeed
20:50 mst or at least, not enough less to justify the opportunity cost
20:54 masak raschipi: I'll happily discuss with you some of the challenges inherent in introducing macros.
20:55 masak it's a little bit hard to summarize, but I feel I have a pretty good grip on it nowadays.
20:56 raschipi What's out of shape in 007 macros still?
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20:57 masak raschipi: a big thing to land still is `is parsed`
20:57 masak which will enable some of the cooler language hacking
20:57 masak until then, macros are mostly just compile-time subs and operators
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20:58 raschipi Do you have a link about it?
21:07 perlpilot masak: Did you realize at the beginning that you would become the chief-explainer of Perl 6 macros for life?  :)
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21:09 lizmat and the chief-architect ?  :-)
21:10 lizmat and the chief macro grantee  ?   :-)   *nudge nudge*  :-)
21:12 hankache hola #perl6
21:12 raschipi heya
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21:26 SmokeMachine star: use JSON::Class; class C is JSON::Class {has Str %.bla{subset :: of Str where any <bla ble>}}; C.from-json: 「{"bla": {"ble": "bli"}}」
21:26 camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT: «===SORRY!===␤Could not find JSON::Class at line 1 in:␤    /home/camelia/.perl6␤    /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6/site␤    /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6/vendor␤    /home/camelia/star-2016.10/share/perl6␤    CompUnit::Repository::…»
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21:50 masak perlpilot: don't remember. probably I didn't think about it much.
21:50 masak perlpilot: but it was definitely a case of "hey, I've been waiting for macros for so long now, better do something about them"
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23:34 Todd_ Hi All!  I have a program running in Linux that is called by /etc/crontab.  Problem: the program crashes when run by cron if I "print" in color.  Works fine from the command line.  Looking over file:///home/CDs/Keepers/Linux/perl/Perl6.Variables.html#Compile-time_variables I am not finding anything that tells me who called the program.  Is there a way to tell if the program is called by cron or from the command line?
23:35 samcv made a repository to carry out my unicode tests of different scripts https://github.com/samcv/UCD-tests will accumulate a bunch of things and hopefully will merge it into roast when it is mature
23:36 TimToady Todd_: you could probably look at the environment variables to determine whether it was started by a shell or by cron
23:36 TimToady cron tends to have far fewer envvars
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23:38 geekosaur Todd_, what you probably want is $*OUT.t
23:38 geekosaur since the real question is whether output goes to a terminal for which color is appropriate
23:39 Todd_ I want to shut off printing when I am call by cron.  $TERM has promise.  How do I dig it out of %*ENV  ?
23:40 TimToady what geekosaur said
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23:40 geekosaur %*ENV<TERM>:exists && %*ENV<TERM> ne 'dumb'
23:40 Todd_ appropriate is probably why I am having the issue.  Since I am Top Down, my color printing is all in subs.  So I will be very easy to shut off printing wne the term is inaproproate
23:41 Todd_ testing
23:41 geekosaur but I'd want to dsable it whenever output is to a file, so the .t check seems better to me
23:41 geekosaur (if you ever load such a file with color into an editor, you will see why :)
23:46 Todd_ Term is empty.  Thank you guys!
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