Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-03-30

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 AlexDaniel samcv: generally, this is what makes it switch to it: setxkbmap -compat 'complete+ef+ledcaps(group_lock)' 'ef,ef(phonetic)' -option 'grp:sclk_toggle,grp_led:caps
00:00 AlexDaniel (missing ' on the end)
00:00 samcv kk
00:01 AlexDaniel samcv: you can take any other existing layout as an example
00:03 AlexDaniel samcv: if I recall correctly, -compat thing is needed to work around some issue with japanese keyboards
00:03 AlexDaniel samcv: ( https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91042 )
00:03 AlexDaniel samcv: so if you're just starting, you probably don't need it
00:04 samcv thank you kindly
00:04 AlexDaniel samcv: sclk_toggle is to make scroll lock switch between layouts, again it's something you probably don't need at all
00:04 AlexDaniel so it is simply setxkbmap 'yourlayout'
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00:07 AlexDaniel samcv: at the time I found this to be very helpful: https://medium.com/@damko/a-simple-humble-but-comprehensive-guide-to-xkb-for-linux-6f1ad5e13450
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00:11 AlexDaniel samcv: if you get into problems where some of your custom keys are not working in some software, feel free to ping me. There are a couple of tricks I know
00:13 samcv thank you
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01:48 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:40 AlexDaniel ===SORRY!=== Representation must be composed before it can be serialized
03:40 AlexDaniel what does it mean?
03:41 AlexDaniel ah-ha, it means I cannot 「use …:from<Python>;」 in a module
03:42 * BenGoldberg was going to say, you need to do Classname.^compose, but that could be it instead.
03:42 AlexDaniel uh-oh, so how do I use something with Inline::Python if I'm doing it in a module?
03:43 * BenGoldberg doesn't know.
03:43 BenGoldberg In any case, g'night.
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03:59 AlexDaniel .tell nine any ideas? https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-03-30#i_14348415
03:59 yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to nine.
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04:08 samcv looks rike that coverage i generated is incorrect because i think it copied over the old results every .t file was ran
04:08 samcv so i guess i'll make a nqp shell script that sets a random one, then when it runs them all combine all the randomly named datafiles together
04:10 samcv or maybe it combines them. i'm not really sure the files are the same size
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04:19 u-ou I want to write a bot that connects to IRC via SSL. how do I do that?
04:19 yoleaux 29 Mar 2017 10:19Z <Zoffix> u-ou: Don't know if anyone mentioned, but if you're writing an IRC bot, we already have an IRC module you can use and not mess with sockets: https://modules.perl6.org/repo/IRC::Client
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04:22 u-ou I guess that's my answer in a way, but I'm not sure if I want to use a library yet.
04:26 AlexDaniel u-ou: so you want something to handle SSL stuff but don't want to use a module?
04:28 u-ou I didn't say "don't want to". just wondered if perl6 provided something for me.
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05:37 samcv u-ou, there's an IRC bot thing
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05:37 samcv i've built an irc bot using it
05:38 samcv buggable, eco IRC::Client
05:38 buggable samcv, Found 4 results: IRC::Client, IRC::Client::Plugin::HNY, IRC::Client::Plugin::Factoid, IRC::Client::Plugin::UserPoints. See https://modules.perl6.org/#q=IRC%3A%3AClient
05:39 u-ou ta, will look into it
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05:44 samcv the source for my bot is here https://github.com/samcv/keira-perl6-ircbot in case you're interested. it all uses plugins
05:44 samcv well the whole thing is a plugin. in the lib folder the Keira.pm6 file has the bulk of the code, that get simpored into the executable
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05:46 u-ou thanks :D
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05:52 u-ou gtg
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06:59 pmurias jnthn: re 'make spectest' on rakudo-debugger, does 'make spectest' test the rakudo debugger?
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07:01 samcv pmurias, i don't think it does
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07:15 domi91c hello
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08:04 pmurias why is nqp::if faster then if ... {}?
08:04 samcv do you think it is faster?
08:05 samcv i mean sometimes it's not any faster. do you have evidence showing it's slower or just assuming it's slower?
08:06 pmurias it's used in the CORE a lot, I'm just wondering if the regular statement could be optimized so it's no longer needed
08:06 samcv but yeah nqp::if can be faster depending on what is in the if condition. if it's a nqp type thing nqp::if can be faster somewhat if it's a hot codepath
08:06 samcv ah
08:07 samcv it would go here https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp
08:08 samcv there probably already is something there, but i'm not sure what it covers
08:08 samcv but if you are finding nqp::if is being faster in one situation i would try and improve the optimizer
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08:20 * lizmat has tried to get into the optimizer a few times
08:20 lizmat but I have not been able to wrap my head around it just yet  :-(
08:21 lizmat this has probably to do with age
08:21 samcv i think i understand it. and then i keep going and then realize i know nothing at all
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08:21 samcv when that file starts to make sense and then suddenly you realize you have no clue what it's doing
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08:47 El_Che samcv: that's the Socratic paradox :)
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08:58 pmurias do we want to implement count-only for stuff such as (-1.5.Num..^3).iterator?
08:59 pmurias we have a skipped test, but I'm not sure how useful the count-only method for such cases would actually be
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09:36 timotimo There's no short-hand way to get a Promise that's already kept with a value you give, right?
09:36 timotimo like, you can't "Hello".Promise, or Promise.kept-value("Hello")
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09:54 andrzejku hey where is Perl https://goo.gl/IxNzo8
09:54 andrzejku how is with bug density in perl6?
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11:13 SHODAN andrzejku, odd article
11:14 andrzejku maybe
11:14 andrzejku but how is with bug density in perl6?
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11:17 SHODAN i think you'll have to perform that study yourself if you're interested. i haven't heard of any such numbers :\
11:18 timotimo there's not enough user code publically available on github for a sensible study, i'd say
11:18 SHODAN that might be a problem too
11:25 andrzejku okay but what do you think about it?
11:26 andrzejku Perl6 vs C++ bug density
11:29 pmurias the way the measure "bug density" doesn't seem very reliable
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11:32 timotimo opened github issues per line of code?
11:32 pmurias commits with a message that looks like it fixes a bug
11:32 timotimo ah
11:33 andrzejku timotimo: I think it should be developer feelings statistics
11:33 timotimo no, definitely not
11:34 timotimo "how buggy does your language make your code?" "my language is perfect, go away"
11:34 timotimo that's got to be helpful!
11:34 timotimo "php provokes bugs" - "no php is flawless, you dumb bully!"
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11:35 pmurias disgruntlement seems like a very useful thing to measure
11:38 andrzejku I don't think so
11:39 andrzejku many developers which program for many many years can told you many stories with different projects and languages
11:40 andrzejku I heard one a story about guy who need to fix some bugs in C/C++/scripting mixed code
11:40 andrzejku and he was crying
11:40 andrzejku after couple days
11:41 nebuchadnezzar interesting the GraphQL and Perl6 slides
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11:44 pmurias andrzejku: most (all) technologies suck and annoy people in different ways, what would be interesting to measure is to what degree they do that
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11:56 profan pmurias: i think it's very difficult to come to any objective measure about it
11:57 profan while bug density may be hard to measure, "disgruntlement" is.. also quite up there in terms of difficulty i'd say :P
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12:02 DrForr timotimo: Were you the one playing with Synthesia?
12:03 timotimo ayup
12:03 DrForr Are you using your laptop keyboard, or an actual MIDI controller?
12:05 timotimo i'm the proud owner of an alesis vi61
12:07 DrForr Shiny. I'm looking for something portable, having had to deal with selling at least one 61-key unit.
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12:09 timotimo yeah, the vi61 is definitely not portable :)
12:10 timotimo my dad started my interest when he got some pretty tiny thingie for almost-free one time and showed it to me
12:11 timotimo it had pretty cheap keys, and not many of 'em
12:11 timotimo like one and a half octave maybe?
12:12 DrForr Indeed. I bought an 88-key Yamaha MIDI controller (weighted, velocity) and had a fun (for geeky "Okay, how the hell do I set this up..." values of fun) in order to practice as close as I could get to a real piano, but it's nothing really useful w/o GarageBand...
12:13 timotimo pff, garage band. there's so many cool tools out there to try
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12:13 timotimo if you'd enjoy fiddling with synth parameters and filters and such, have a look at sunvox
12:13 DrForr I know; it took me quite a while to figure out basic VS..R? sound stuff, I played w/ cubase.
12:14 timotimo oh, you mean the attack/decay/hold/fourth-thing
12:14 Woodi andrzejku: if you check some link in this article and link there, you will get that Perl5 is almoust as good as TypeScript :)  but this article is just completly waste of time with terrible name with terrible arguments and conclusions...
12:14 timotimo ah, attack, decay, sustain, release
12:14 DrForr Yeah, ASDR envelopes.
12:15 DrForr It was just the keys, full 88-key multitouch velocity sensitive, and just figuring out the options to play back live sound was a challenge.
12:15 timotimo hehe
12:16 DrForr Hence garageband.
12:18 DrForr Synthesia looks fun enough (and I've watched enough video using it) to get me back into it, but I'd either need something like a Yamaha PSR taking up a huge amount of space (but with the fire-and-forget advantage) or take a more multimedia approach with a simpler keyboard. I can span more than an octave (I know, quit bragging) so at least a 49-key would work for me.
12:20 timotimo what, you can reach further than the same note on two octaves with just one hand?
12:20 DrForr Just barely.
12:21 DrForr Double-jointed and all that.
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12:23 andrzejku Woodi: hey
12:23 andrzejku Woodi: priv?
12:24 timotimo FWIW, i just hook synthesia up to a qsynth aka fluidsynth
12:24 timotimo not much setup required
12:24 * timotimo heads out now
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13:14 [Coke] http://www.platohistory.org/blog/2012/09/plato-emoticons-revisited.html
13:16 raschipi Someone has to write a proposal so that Unicode can represent that.
13:19 DrForr https://youtu.be/AcS3NOQnsQM?t=115
13:21 * [Coke] actually ponders making a module that, given a char or int, will print the str/codepoint/uniname
13:21 [Coke] I've written so many one liners ending with a very long "say" at the end to dump that out…
13:21 raschipi Make it also able to dump property tables.
13:22 raschipi Like the bot.
13:23 masak [Coke]: may I point you to the excellent App::Uni? https://metacpan.org/pod/App::Uni
13:23 masak [Coke]: these days, I never leave home without it
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13:24 raschipi Looks like a good template, but it would be useful to have a p6 version so we can query what Perl6 thinks of them.
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13:26 masak I won't stop you from porting App::Uni to Perl 6, of course. my guess is it ends up being much smaller.
13:28 [Coke] masak++ nifty
13:29 [Coke] I could see adding a -v to get rashipi's desired output also.
13:30 raschipi There is Perl6 code for all of this already, just factor it out of the bots.
13:31 jnthn react/whenever example of the day: quick and dirty async SSH port forwarder https://github.com/jnthn/p6-ssh-libssh/blob/forwarding/examples/forward.p6
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13:33 raschipi "dirty" as in: cleaner than something that would be written in any other language except Erlang.
13:34 jnthn ;)
13:35 jnthn Well, more things like "it just goes and tears down the SSH session without caring about ongoing connections at shutdown" :)
13:36 jnthn What I actually needed to implement was reverse forwarding, alas...
13:36 * jnthn goes to try and figure that out
13:37 raschipi "tears down the SSH session without caring about ongoing connections": Just let TCP deal with it. That's it's job anyway.
13:37 jnthn Well, there is that :)
13:45 * nebuchadnezzar is enjoying the Damian's talk “On the shoulder of Giants” and wonders where Quantum::Computation module is :-D
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14:02 skids jnthn: had any time for any initial thoughts on my "rolevolution" branch?  I'm thinking maybe people will lean towards reversing the sense of the directive so renaming it something like "insist role {} and insist method {}".  Or maybe TimToady would have a better word.
14:10 jnthn skids: Not yet, I'm afraid. :( Not really had time for Perl 6 anything this week (except $dayjob bits that happen to be done with Perl 6)
14:11 raschipi I admire Timtoady, he makes the most difficult task on Computer Science look so easy.
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14:16 llfourn_ skids: what's the rolevolution?
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14:26 jast raschipi: naming things?
14:26 raschipi Yeah.
14:31 raschipi The second one in the list being cache invalidation, of course.
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14:36 Woodi why cache invalidation is hard ?
14:39 jnthn llfourn_: https://gist.github.com/skids/18fa6fb1de776400abd43b6e82e9fcc2
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14:39 Geth ¦ doc: d1f2c6ac97 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Method.pod6
14:39 Geth ¦ doc: Correct and expand &lastcall docs
14:39 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d1f2c6ac97
14:40 raschipi It's a tradeoff between keeping everything consistent and actually getting better performance out of it. How do you know a cache is stale without checking the source or the peers (which is what a cache is meant to avoid, after all).
14:40 raschipi And then doing it without race-conditions.
14:42 Woodi raschipi: I think it's a bit like fighting with physics laws
14:46 Woodi ok, that's answer why it's hard ;)
14:47 DrForr Alternatively, thinking like a physicist, you have to observe the cache in order to attempt to invalidate it.
14:50 skids (This is going to evolve into a discussion on Lamport clocks and light cones, isn't it?)
14:53 DrForr Only relatively.
14:54 raschipi I just find it almost unbelivable CPU algorithms have to wait for clock propagation, that's all. People have been researching assynchronous CPUs to get around it.
14:55 DrForr Clock pulses take up a good chunk of the CPU.
14:56 timotimo yeah, it has to be a nice and even tree that gets the clock to all parts at the very same time
14:56 skids I actually think the basic problem might be more solvable by highly syncronous CPUs.
14:56 skids Like a lock location that CPU#1 will only write to on clock cycles that are mod 1, CPU mod 2, etc.
14:57 timotimo cache invalidation is actually really easy. as soon as you've written to the cache, flush the cache.
14:57 raschipi For CPUs, yeah. But CS wants to deal with Caches in general, not just CPU caches.
14:58 timotimo no, for all caches
14:59 raschipi That doesn't solve even a read-only cache, because clients don't subscribe to events necessarily. They just retrieve and keep it in a cache.
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15:02 raschipi The answer of course, is that they just use stale data anyway, it's an unsolvable problem in it's most general form. And the joke is that it's easier to solve than naming things.
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15:04 timotimo you don't understand my solution
15:04 timotimo when you've written to the cache, immediately clear the cache. problem solved
15:04 [Coke] m: (0..0x1FFF).grep({$_.chr.uninames ~~ /GREEK/}).say
15:04 camelia rakudo-moar 545d82: OUTPUT: «(834 837 880 881 882 883 885 886 887 890 891 892 893 895 900 901 902 904 905 906 908 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 9…»
15:04 timotimo you can never read stale data from the cache
15:04 timotimo because the cache never has data in it
15:04 [Coke] m: (0..0x1FFF).hyper.grep({$_.chr.uninames ~~ /GREEK/}).say
15:04 camelia rakudo-moar 545d82: OUTPUT: «()␤»
15:06 [Coke] shouldn't those be the same?
15:06 raschipi People, I'm going, we'll talk later.
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15:10 [Coke] masak: https://gist.github.com/coke/008e6e5e937a2174e442ef258701af7b
15:12 [Coke] masak: uni -n /(random regex)/ doesn't quite work yet, but everything else seems fineish.
15:12 timotimo [Coke]: hyper's broken, though
15:13 [Coke] also need to make DWIM mode DWIMMIER.
15:13 [Coke] timotimo: ok.
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15:16 * [Coke] wonders if he should support "uni -n / 'ROMAN' .* 'HUNDRED' /" as an arbitrary command line.
15:17 [Coke] as opposed to uni -n /'ROMAN'.*'HUNDRED'/
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15:27 ilmari [Coke]: note that there's already App::Uni on cpan, which ships a 'uni' command
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15:30 timotimo he was already told
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15:34 ilmari oh, indeed
15:35 moritz \o
15:36 * moritz back home
15:36 * ilmari boggles at Ↄ U+02183 - ROMAN NUMERAL REVERSED ONE HUNDRED
15:36 ilmari does that mean -100?
15:37 ilmari it's not a number as far as unicode is concerned
15:37 ilmari Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase)
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15:50 Zoffix New blog post: "But Here's My Dispatch, So callwith Maybe": https://perl6.party/post/Perl6-But-Heres-My-Dispatch-So-Callwith-Maybe
15:51 samcv unidump: Ↄ
15:51 unicodable6 samcv, https://gist.github.com/e2ce1728b26360660cc44b409f389cfe
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16:01 araraloren m: enum A < C D E >; enum B < C D E>;
16:01 camelia rakudo-moar 3e275d: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤    Redeclaration of symbol 'C, D and E'␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3enum A < C D E >; enum B < C D E>7⏏5;␤»
16:03 araraloren Anyone can help me for this compile error?
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16:08 perlpilot araraloren: don't do that?
16:09 raschipi joined #perl6
16:12 jnthn It's a warning rather than an error
16:13 jnthn And it's because enums automatically export the symbols inside of them into the surroudning scope
16:21 araraloren jnthn, but rakudo complain this and gave up compile
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16:28 samcv ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling:
16:28 samcv Redeclaration of symbol 'A'
16:29 samcv m:  my enum A < C D E >; { my enum B < C D E>; }
16:29 camelia rakudo-moar 3e275d: ( no output )
16:30 samcv just put them in different scope if you have to have enums with the same names
16:31 samcv araraloren, or you can store them into variables
16:32 araraloren That's a slightly inflexible rather than C enum :(
16:32 samcv m: my $var = my enum B < C D E>; say $var; my $var2 = my enum A < C D E>; say $var2
16:32 camelia rakudo-moar 3e275d: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤    Redeclaration of symbol 'C, D and E'␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3 say $var; my $var2 = my enum A < C D E>7⏏5; say $var2␤Map.new((:C(0),:D(1),:E(2)))␤Map.new((:C(0),:D(1),:E(2)))␤»
16:32 araraloren No way, rakudo reject this, haha ...
16:33 samcv m: my $a; { $a = enum A < C D E >;}; my $b; { $b = enum B < C D E >; }
16:33 araraloren I put enum inside class now
16:33 camelia rakudo-moar 3e275d: ( no output )
16:33 samcv yeah or do that
16:34 samcv many ways you can do it but in a class souds nicest
16:34 samcv and everybody likes nice programmers
16:35 araraloren ~~ OK thanks
16:39 TimToady if you export the enums, only the colliding ones should be "poisoned" and require qualification
16:39 Cabanossi joined #perl6
16:39 TimToady (one of the ideas we stole from Ada)
16:41 mcmillhj joined #perl6
16:55 b2gills m: constant A := do { enum A < C D E >}; constant B := do { enum B < C D E>; }; say A::C; say B::C
16:55 camelia rakudo-moar 3e275d: OUTPUT: «C␤C␤»
16:55 b2gills m: constant A := do { enum A < C D E >}; constant B := do { enum B < C D E>; }; say A::C.perl; say B::C.perl
16:55 camelia rakudo-moar 3e275d: OUTPUT: «B::C␤B::C␤»
16:55 b2gills m: constant A := do { my enum A < C D E >}; constant B := do { my enum B < C D E>; }; say A::C.perl; say B::C.perl
16:55 camelia rakudo-moar 3e275d: OUTPUT: «Could not find symbol '&C'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
16:56 b2gills m: constant A := do { my enum A < C D E >}; say A.perl
16:56 camelia rakudo-moar 3e275d: OUTPUT: «Map.new((:C(0),:D(1),:E(2)))␤»
16:56 b2gills m: constant A := do { my enum A < C D E >}; say A<C>
16:56 camelia rakudo-moar 3e275d: OUTPUT: «0␤»
16:57 b2gills m: constant A := do { my enum A < C D E >}; say A<D>
16:57 camelia rakudo-moar 3e275d: OUTPUT: «1␤»
16:57 mcmillhj joined #perl6
17:10 skids m: our class A { our enum A is export(:enums) < C D E >};  our class B { our enum B < C D E>; }; { import A; say A::C.perl; }; { import B; say B::C.perl }; { import A :enums; say C.perl }
17:10 camelia rakudo-moar 3e275d: OUTPUT: «A::C␤B::C␤A::C␤»
17:10 skids That's how I'm handling it in my xcb wrapper.
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17:33 raschipi huggable: hug me
17:33 * huggable hugs raschipi
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17:47 [Coke] do we have a way to interrogate which version of unicode we're using yet?
17:47 sufrostico joined #perl6
17:48 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
17:54 [Coke] .seen rjbs
17:54 yoleaux I saw rjbs 10 Mar 2017 21:04Z in #perl6: <rjbs>  /win 7
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18:20 lucs Why does it seem to me that all English speakers pronounce "integral" as "intregal"?
18:28 geekosaur not all of us but it's pretty common
18:35 [ptc] as a native, I've always been amazed at the pronunciation of 'Wednesday'; where I come from it sounds more like "Wensday"
18:37 hobbs lucs: I usually hear "intergral", but the short answer is rs are slippery
18:38 hobbs nothing else explains Brett Favre
18:39 lucs hobbs: Hmm... Yeah, I think I've heard it like that too.
18:40 lucs [ptc]: I've never heard Wednesday pronounced other that like you said, "Wensday" :)
18:40 hobbs the only people who consistently say it otherwise are Indian English speakers
18:40 hobbs who pronounce it exactly as written
18:40 geekosaur sometimes you hear the second d but in the wrong place ("wendsday")
18:41 hobbs (which is pretty amusing, in my book)
18:41 AndyDee joined #perl6
18:41 [ptc] lucs: ah well, where I'm from mumbling is part of the accent :-)
18:41 lucs :)
18:42 hobbs (that last bit was about Wednesday, not integral)
18:42 [ptc] fwiw, my version is "innegrl"
18:42 lucs Yikes :)
18:43 [ptc] :-)
18:43 hobbs sounds like Appalachia :)
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19:03 skids "nucular" is a verbal tick you may easily acquire if you were exposed to too many evangelical talk radio shows during the 80s.  I don't know where "intergal" would have come from though.
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19:14 [Coke] (uni) added a -w so you can easily search for things with "CAT" and not get MULTIPLICATION
19:40 kurahaupo__ joined #perl6
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20:07 gfldex i used `temp` in real code today the first time
20:07 mcmillhj joined #perl6
20:07 gfldex there are so many nice things in Perl 6 I didn't use yet :)
20:11 raschipi What did you use it for?
20:12 gfldex https://github.com/gfldex/perl6-meta6-bin/blob/master/bin/meta6#L148
20:12 gfldex you can't init a container with itself, unless you use temp
20:14 raschipi I see, you're accessing a variable in the outer scope. I was thinking about using temp on parameters and not seeing how it was different from "is copy"
20:16 gfldex m: my $foo = 42; sub s { temp $foo //= $foo ~ ':'; say $foo }; s
20:16 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «42␤»
20:16 gfldex this feels wrong
20:16 gfldex m: my $foo = 42; sub s { temp $foo; say $foo }; s
20:16 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «42␤»
20:17 gfldex temp should first create a copy and then apply the //=
20:17 cdg joined #perl6
20:19 raschipi m: my $foo = 42; sub s { temp ($foo //= $foo ~ ':'); say $foo }; s
20:19 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «42␤»
20:20 xfix joined #perl6
20:20 raschipi I think temp doesn't happen at runtime.
20:22 raschipi Like "my".
20:26 mcmillhj joined #perl6
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20:45 Voldenet i can't express how much I like the usage of method-name instead of method_name or MethodName
20:45 Voldenet I wish I could use perl6 syntax in .net's world, anyone working on perl6 for it? :P
20:46 raschipi What about $method's-name ?
20:46 geekosaur niecza hasn't been maaintained in a while
20:46 timo joined #perl6
20:47 timo1 joined #perl6
20:48 Voldenet raschipi: eh, is that even correct? :o
20:48 Voldenet hmmm, that's kind of insane syntax :D
20:48 timo1 finally i'm on an up-to-date version of weechat again
20:48 Voldenet but I can see its uses
20:48 raschipi m: my $method's-name = "aaa"; say $method's-name
20:48 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «aaa␤»
20:49 AlexDaniel I've used ' a couple of times
20:49 AlexDaniel It was something like $let's-save
20:49 Voldenet :)
20:50 Voldenet i tend to use it to delimit strings only
20:50 raschipi What's the name of the Unicode property the codepoint needs for Perl6 to allow it in variable's names?
20:50 AlexDaniel raschipi: general category? :P
20:51 AlexDaniel raschipi: https://docs.perl6.org/language/unicode_texas#Alphabetic_Characters
20:51 AlexDaniel m: say ‘π’.uniprop
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «Ll␤»
20:51 AlexDaniel m: my $πππ = 42; say $πππ
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «42␤»
20:52 AlexDaniel unidump: π
20:52 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/759dd48da1132d599051e678310dad7e
20:52 raschipi m: say ‘'’.uniprop
20:52 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «Po␤»
20:53 AlexDaniel raschipi: ‘gc’ or ‘General_Category’, and uniprop defaults to it
20:53 AlexDaniel I'm pretty sure ' and - are exceptions
20:53 raschipi They are treated differently by the parser, but they do have a property that's looked for everything else.
20:53 grondilu_ joined #perl6
20:54 Voldenet m: my $; = 42; say $;
20:54 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unsupported use of $; variable; in Perl 6 please use real multidimensional hashes␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $;7⏏5 = 42; say $;␤»
20:54 Voldenet m: my $; = 42; say $;
20:54 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unsupported use of $; variable; in Perl 6 please use real multidimensional hashes␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $;7⏏5 = 42; say $;␤»
20:54 mcmillhj joined #perl6
20:55 raschipi They are used as letters in English and other languages, therefore have the property set.
20:55 ggoebel joined #perl6
20:55 raschipi I just don't remember the name.
20:56 AlexDaniel u: ;
20:56 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+003B SEMICOLON [Po] (;)
20:56 AlexDaniel … something is wrong
20:57 AlexDaniel mc: ‘;’.uniname.say
20:57 committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦2015.12: «SEMICOLON»
20:57 AlexDaniel or am I missing something
20:57 AlexDaniel .u ;
20:57 yoleaux U+037E GREEK QUESTION MARK [Po] (;)
20:57 raschipi How do I ask the bot to produce the property tables?
20:57 AlexDaniel raschipi: uniprop: …
20:57 AlexDaniel raschipi: you can include more than one character
20:57 raschipi uniprop: '
20:58 AlexDaniel oh sorry… unidump
20:58 raschipi unidump: '
20:58 unicodable6 raschipi, https://gist.github.com/4904e5860a97fe5782a6c5e564a6c1e9
20:59 AlexDaniel raschipi: fwiw, apostrophe appears here: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp#L504
21:00 raschipi Like I said, I know they are treated exceptionally by the parser, because of it's other uses in the language.
21:00 AlexDaniel ah, <apostrophe> is also ' :)
21:01 raschipi Found it: Pattern_Syntax , http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr31/
21:02 raschipi Loves, it's time for me to leave. XOXO
21:02 Voldenet m: my Int $int:hungarian-notation'2 = 42; say $int:hungarian-notation'2
21:02 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my Int $int:hungarian-notation7⏏5'2 = 42; say $int:hungarian-notation'2␤    expecting any of:␤        constraint␤        infix␤        infix stopper…»
21:02 Voldenet uh, at least there are limits to insanity
21:03 Voldenet m: my Int $int:hungarian-notation = 42; say $int:hungarian-notation
21:03 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «42␤»
21:03 Voldenet ...not that shallow either :)
21:06 timo1 right, you're not allowed to start with a number after a hyphen (or apostrophe)
21:06 Voldenet but I bet colon does something special
21:06 timo1 yup
21:07 timo1 it's what we use for &infix:<+> and such
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21:10 Voldenet hm, is it invalid to use $type:name as a variable name though?
21:11 timotimo m: my $type:name = 5; my $type:othername = 9;
21:11 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: ( no output )
21:11 timotimo m: my $type:name = 5; my $type:othername = 9; dd $type:name, $type:othername
21:11 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «Int $type:name = 5␤Int $type:othername = 9␤»
21:11 Voldenet It obviously works. ;)
21:11 timotimo seems to work just fine
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21:29 gfldex m: my $name = 42; my $name:foo = 43; dd ::
21:29 camelia rakudo-moar 70d555: OUTPUT: «PseudoStash.new(("!UNIT_MARKER" => !UNIT_MARKER,"\$!" => Nil,"\$/" => Nil,"\$=finish" => Mu,"\$=pod" => [],"\$?PACKAGE" => GLOBAL,"\$_" => Any,"\$name" => 42,"\$name:foo" => 43,"\$¢" => Nil,"::?PACKAGE" => GLOBAL,:EXPORT(EXPORT),:GLOBALish(GLOBAL)))␤»
21:30 gfldex what is $¢ ?
21:31 gfldex it's in roast, so it's a thing
21:33 mst dollarcent?
21:35 MasterDuke the changelog for 2015.09 say: '$¢' in grammars now refers to the current cursor
21:35 perlpilot gfldex: I tend to think of it as the "in-flux" version of $/
21:35 timotimo yeah, it's the same as $/.CURSOR
21:38 bjz joined #perl6
21:39 Voldenet a propos, special characters in perl6 are widely used, but is there any good way to use them with regular keyboard on windows?
21:40 itaipu joined #perl6
21:40 timotimo there's a page about that on the docs site
21:41 Voldenet except not on windows ;(
21:41 timotimo oh? damn
21:42 grondilu joined #perl6
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21:46 gfldex Voldenet: most ppl on windows cheat and use a VM
21:47 mcmillhj joined #perl6
21:49 Voldenet using alt + 0171 for « and alt + 0187 for » is kind of painful
21:49 Voldenet also, I use a VM too, but xorg sucks
21:49 Voldenet so I chose not to use it :P
21:50 gfldex Voldenet: that's what I use https://gfldex.wordpress.com/2016/08/31/one-line-of-unicode-at-you-fingertips/
21:53 skink joined #perl6
21:54 Voldenet atm I'm using plain << and >> instead, which looks worse but kind of works :)
21:55 Voldenet too bad all methods are bound to using unix tools
21:55 sufrostico joined #perl6
21:55 geekosaur Voldenet, https://github.com/samhocevar/wincompose ?
21:56 Cabanossi joined #perl6
21:58 geekosaur huggable, wincompose :is: https://github.com/samhocevar/wincompose a compose key for Windows, allowing choice of compose key and user-defined compositions
21:58 huggable geekosaur, Added wincompose as https://github.com/samhocevar/wincompose a compose key for Windows, allowing choice of compose key and user-defined compositions
22:01 geekosaur ahahah just discovered one of its predefined bindings uses the konami code for a table flip
22:01 Voldenet heh :D
22:02 Voldenet Hm, I'm yet to learn how to use it though
22:03 rindolf joined #perl6
22:03 geekosaur "compose key" is a unix thing. so <compose> < < gets «
22:03 mcmillhj joined #perl6
22:04 Voldenet wincompose comes with too many sequences, and I just need a "perl6" sequence :)
22:05 Voldenet ...or i might just use google japanese ime ★
22:07 skink Who has issues installing Crypt::Bcrypt?
22:08 grondilu off-topic:  rocket launch tonight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsZSXav4wI8
22:13 perigrin isn't this the space tested rocket?
22:14 perigrin (yes yes it is)
22:14 labster yup, I'm excited!
22:16 * perigrin is on the wrong end of the country for a change
22:16 perigrin :/
22:22 mcmillhj joined #perl6
22:23 AlexDaniel grondilu: another one that is supposed to land back, right?
22:24 grondilu AlexDaniel: I think so
22:24 grondilu there is a "landing" mark on the timeline
22:28 Voldenet skink: I don't have issues, it just plainly does not work for me
22:28 Voldenet > Testing [FAIL]: if:ver('0.1.0'):auth('github:FROGGS')
22:28 Voldenet whatever that should mean
22:31 perigrin AlexDaniel: and the one that already did it once.
22:31 Voldenet oh
22:31 Voldenet t/if.t (Wstat: 0 Tests: 1 Failed: 0)
22:31 perigrin basically "can we do it again"
22:31 Voldenet Parse errors: Bad plan.  You planned 5 tests but ran 1.
22:33 skink Oh, that's roundabout
22:33 skink That's a dependency of Crypt::Random
22:34 Voldenet Yeah, it's /if/
22:37 Voldenet not sure if it's not my setup's problem, but "Cannot find method 'symtable' on object of type GLOBAL", got that too?
22:37 skink Ah, okay zoffix already put a ticket in for that module
22:38 Voldenet indeed
22:38 Voldenet "let's just wait"
22:38 skink Everything actually builds fine for me
22:38 mcmillhj joined #perl6
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22:54 labster If anyone's still in suspense, successful launch, and success retrieval of first stage.  The second stage of SES-10 is moving from LEO to geostationary orbit.
22:54 mcmillhj joined #perl6
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23:05 Zoffix skink: it probably works for you 'cause you're on 2017.01 or earlier rakudo. 2017.02+ had changes to some internal features that if.pm6 is actually using.
23:07 skink Yeah that's what I figured
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