Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-04-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:04 [Coke] yes, way too much. :)
00:05 [Coke] in App::Uni, I currently have:
00:05 [Coke] $ PERL6LIB=lib bin/uni -c ¶
00:05 [Coke] ¶ - U+0000B6 - PILCROW SIGN [Po]
00:06 [Coke] Just wondering if there is a precedent for displaying the [Po] like that.
00:07 AlexDaniel just yoleaux and unicodable, that's it I think
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00:22 [Coke] zef bug? I have an installed version of App::Uni - I added a sub in the package; when I run the test in my git checkout, it's fine. if I do "zef install ." with an updated .json file (new version to force an install), it complains it cannot find the new sub.
00:22 ZofBot [Coke], zef bug? I have an installed version of App::Uni - I added a sub in the package; when I run the test in my git checkout, it's fine. if I do "zef install ." with an updated .json file (new version to force an install), it complains it cannot find the new sub.
00:22 [Coke] zoffix, fix yer bot.
00:23 [Coke] feels like it's running the tests during the install against the installed lib version, not the new one.
00:23 ZofBot [Coke], feels like it's running the tests during the install against the installed lib version, not the new one.
00:23 [Coke] Are you just going to keep repeating everything I say?
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00:25 [Coke] ... weird.
00:25 timotimo should we give +v to a bot that does nothing but echo? :)
00:26 [Coke] .seen ugexe
00:26 yoleaux I saw ugexe 1 Apr 2017 05:48Z in #perl6: <ugexe> openssl bumped to 0.1.8 with MasterDuke's leak fix
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00:31 [Coke] perl6 -MApp::Uni -e 'say uni-gist(0x1234)'
00:31 [Coke] ሴ - U+001234 - ETHIOPIC SYLLABLE SEE [Lo]
00:31 [Coke] there, that's why I did the stupid thing. \o/
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00:33 [Coke] (though having the uni command means I don't really need it)
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00:36 ugexe [Coke]: I dont think its possible for the tests to use a installed copy of something that is in a dist that will be tested
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00:37 ugexe because they all get ran with `perl6 -Ilib ...` essentially - so lib/ is always in front
00:37 ugexe that sounds like a precomp thing
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00:40 ugexe the output with RAKUDO_MODULE_DEBUG=1 will show you where each module gets loaded from
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01:00 [Coke] ugexe: I see "Late loading 'App::Uni'" - then it eventually loads $HOME/.perl6/precomp/UUID
01:00 ugexe can you send me the gist of all of it?
01:01 ugexe but looks like if you delete $HOME/.perl6 it should work?
01:01 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/coke/14ec1086f762455e39ae9cd73dd440cf
01:01 [Coke] Sure, but why should it be picking that up?
01:02 ugexe im not sure, i've had it happen before but never consistently
01:02 [Coke] ok. removing ~/.perl6 cache...
01:02 ugexe so its not a common state to get into, but somehow...
01:03 [Coke] same error.
01:04 [Coke] now loading App::Uni from /Users/williamcoleda/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/precomp/UUID
01:04 [Coke] too many precomp dirs.
01:05 [Coke] and why it's not getting invalidated, Iunno
01:07 [Coke] zef install --force App::Uni - letting it complete, it installs, but all the tests fail (because I installed an intermediate version); running the command again, it works.
01:07 [Coke] (that is, all the tests pass the second time)
01:08 [Coke] unfortunately, the git repo I had locally that allowed me to get into this state no longer exists, I rebased it.
01:08 [Coke] but I can probably come up with a scenario that fails again.
01:12 ugexe all the tests fail for me too
01:12 [Coke] .tell rjbs https://github.com/coke/p6-uni
01:12 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to rjbs.
01:13 ugexe ahh i see. this is like before i think... you have to pass in the includes to run/shell
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01:13 ugexe in your tests
01:15 [Coke] the PERL6LIB isn't passed through to the sub-perl6, ah.
01:16 [Coke] oh. you're not using the env var.
01:16 [Coke] ok. I'll see if I can figure out how to do that. Danke.
01:16 ugexe my @include = $*REPO.repo-chain.map(*.path-spec)) should work
01:22 [Coke] ugexe++
01:22 ugexe https://github.com/gfldex/perl6-typesafe-xhtml-writer/blob/master/Build.pm#L9-L10 [Coke] this is a good example
01:23 [Coke] I will have to digest that. Thanks.
01:23 [Coke] nite
01:24 ugexe later - also you know how to unrevert this now :) https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/445dc78714daa0d2e14d1ec1bc8814eca924eb7b
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01:48 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:36 samcv [Coke], i think i may want to use freebsd's memmem on macos as well
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03:38 samcv [Coke], would you be able to bench something for me on mac?
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03:38 samcv well just run simple test and compare between two commits
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03:42 llfourn samcv: I can bench again soon if you give me a gist. Can't do it right now though.
03:42 samcv yay!
03:42 samcv ok llfourn https://github.com/samcv/MoarVM/tree/memmemindex_test
03:42 llfourn ^ let you know when I've done it :)
03:42 samcv new test branch. need benching between the most recent commit it memmemindex_test and the one before it
03:42 samcv it's ready to clone
03:42 llfourn rgr that
03:43 samcv so most recent commit in that branch is "Commit to test speed between native and FreeBSD memmem" so need that compared to the previous commit (previous commit uses a system's native memmem)
03:43 samcv i'm expecting the most recent commit to be faster
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03:43 samcv say 'a' x 1000000000 ~ 'b' ~~ /abcde/; say now - INIT now; and then also try say 'a' x 1000000000 ~ 'b' ~~ /a/; say now - INIT no
03:43 evalable6 samcv, Full output: https://gist.github.com/3d409ce26b1b5bd5255f0b038840de23
03:43 evalable6 samcv, rakudo-moar af50e064f: OUTPUT: «(exit code 1) ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/NfX2Ny1ToV␤No vali…»
03:44 samcv not for you evalable6
03:44 geekosaur heh
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03:46 u-ou hello o/
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03:52 samcv glibc uses knuth-pratt-meyer string search. modern freebsd uses Two-way string-matching as described in this paper https://cry.nu/files/Two-way%20string-matching%20Crochemore%2C%20Perrin%20%201991.pdf Crochemore, perrin 1991
03:52 u-ou what's memmem? is there a memememe?
03:52 samcv memmem finds blocks of memory inside memory
03:52 ilbelkyr it's to strstr what memcpy is to strcpy I guess
03:52 samcv so it will make our regex and string indexing faster
03:53 samcv strstr is just a defective memmem that cannot search things that contain null bytes :P
03:55 samcv Abstract. A new string-matching algorithm is presented, which can be viewed as an intermediate
03:55 samcv between the classical algorithms of Knuth, Morris, and Pratt on the one hand and Boyer and Moore, on
03:55 samcv the other hand. T
03:55 samcv hmm
03:55 samcv interesting :)
04:02 samcv oh llfourn make sure to do a make clean before testing the other one
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04:10 samcv timings for me: /abcde/ GLIBC 4.29s FBSD 3.78s
04:10 samcv and /a/ GLIBC 3.43s FBSD 3.36
04:11 samcv avg of 3-4 runs
04:11 samcv will be cool to see what the macos results are :)
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04:14 samcv and percentages: glibc 13% faster with /abcde/; fbsd 2% faster with /a/ (probably statistically meaningless
04:15 geekosaur either I am not understanding your timings or one of those numbers is wrong?
04:21 samcv hmm?
04:22 TEttinger yeah, you gave numbers wehere FBSD took less time for /abcde/
04:22 samcv oh
04:22 samcv that's reversed
04:22 samcv my bad
04:22 samcv glibc was slightly faster with abcde
04:23 TEttinger how many runs are you doing?
04:23 samcv 4
04:23 samcv very constant times btw
04:23 samcv all very close
04:23 samcv err tighty grouped that is
04:24 TEttinger I may have missed something, but that's not 4 string finds that take 3-4 seconds I hope :)
04:24 geekosaur generally it's fast enough that you do a run of 10000 or so
04:24 samcv well it's 'a' x 1000000000 ~ 'b' ~~ /abcde/
04:24 samcv so it's a pretty long string
04:24 geekosaur ah
04:25 TEttinger I wonder how much of that is overhead from creating a billion-char string
04:26 samcv maybe a lot
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04:27 samcv err not that much i guess
04:27 samcv i get the same time from my $var = 'a' x 1000000000 ~ 'b'; my $t1 = now; $var ~~ /b/; say now - $t1
04:34 samcv gonna compare just the raw nqp::index function now
04:35 samcv though i think the actual regex is probably better representative
04:38 samcv fbsd looks a bit faster with just nqp::index starting at 0. but glibc def has an edge in actual perl6 regex
04:38 samcv llfourn, you done tests yet?
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05:01 samcv llfourn, you still alive ;)
05:09 u-ou :)
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05:11 BenGoldberg The fastest libraries for doing regex are going to be dfa-based ones, like re2 and ragel.
05:12 u-ou I think perl 6 grammars are a really really good idea
05:12 u-ou there i said it
05:13 samcv yay!
05:13 samcv and they are nice
05:14 u-ou I also like twigils
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06:37 moritz good morning
06:37 moritz (off-topic) I've cobbled together a cover image for my first book: https://leanpub.com/deploy feedback welcome!
06:40 moritz my wife says it looks like a vacation guide, so I'm looking for something more abstract now... :-)
06:41 mst I actually quite like that cover
06:41 mst this almost certainly means you should replace it ;)
06:42 moritz :-)
06:42 moritz mst: thanks
06:43 samcv good morning
06:43 moritz \o samcv
06:43 samcv your wife is not wrong
06:44 moritz she usually isn't, when it comes to that sort of thing :)
06:44 samcv maybe something in black and white. like archetecture of buildings or something
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06:47 samcv or even something like this http://www.thepluspaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/White-Lines-and-Blueprints.png
06:47 samcv the piece was supposed to have symbolic meaning moritz ?
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06:49 moritz samcv: in a very abstract/stretchy way, yes
06:49 samcv http://active8studios.co.uk/structures
06:49 samcv maybe one of these
06:49 samcv i like these bridges
06:50 moritz nice idea, thanks
06:50 moritz afk, sorry&
06:50 TEttinger something continuous... stretchy... salep dondurma
06:50 samcv something about these bridges. http://active8studios.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Sydneyharbourbridge1.jpg they are nice
06:50 mst moritz: INVENT A MOEBIUS TRUCK
06:50 samcv and i guess you can buy them
06:51 TEttinger http://www.ediblegeography.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Stretchy-Icecream.jpg
06:51 TEttinger continuous mustache deployment
06:51 samcv i want one of those bridges now...
06:51 samcv damn
06:53 samcv even got wireframe boards and ships http://active8studios.co.uk/boats-ships
06:57 samcv damn it. people stole my bridge idea https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&amp;field-keywords=continuous+development&amp;rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Acontinuous+development
06:58 samcv and i had thought about. well maybe a bridge with a boat to be more original. and there's some 99 cent kindle ebook with a bridge and a boat
06:58 TEttinger continuous deployment... a picture of a map of iraq.
06:59 samcv and this one is def awesome https://www.amazon.com/Continuous-Architecture-Sustainable-Agile-Cloud-Centric/dp/0128032847/ref=sr_1_54?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1491634739&amp;sr=8-54&amp;keywords=continuous+development
06:59 samcv though a bit ambitious with the cover
07:00 samcv what about racks of servers. but photoshopped to go on forever https://ititch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/smtp-server.jpg
07:01 samcv continuous etc
07:01 samcv just to infinity
07:01 samcv that could be neat and original
07:01 samcv (maybe)
07:01 samcv as long as there aren't contiuous deployment books with that then maybe it would be ok... idk.
07:02 samcv maybe just a still from the movie Hackers http://wallpapersafari.com/w/VKJpHR/
07:02 samcv why not
07:03 samcv oh. what about. windmills
07:03 samcv because sustainable power
07:03 samcv also they look nice
07:03 huf "tilting at windmills" is perhaps not what you want to suggest
07:03 samcv and they spin and aren't cliche like gears or like. something else
07:04 samcv that's from a made up story though
07:04 huf ducks dont often grow 7 feet tall.
07:04 TEttinger ooooh a space filling curve
07:04 samcv not like old windmills. but the new ones
07:04 huf oh
07:05 samcv http://www.crystalinks.com/windmills.jpg look how big the blades are
07:05 samcv idk. windmills turning is soothing
07:05 TEttinger here's a space filling curve I had fun making https://www.dropbox.com/s/w6uvhtsz30d8msr/Puka_Curve.png?dl=0
07:06 samcv how did you make it. program?
07:06 TEttinger magicavoxel, hand-placed voxels, it rendered it
07:06 samcv i don't understand what windmills. http://www.miltwright.com/products/images_p/windmills2016.jpg has to do
07:06 samcv with this topic.
07:07 TEttinger don quixote is a well-known classic tale
07:08 TEttinger windmills, specifically the mill part, are "legacy hardware"
07:08 TEttinger since most milling is done by more efficient machines
07:08 samcv even this type of windmill. which is pretty awesome http://discovermagazine.com/2008/oct/24-high-flying-windmills-blow-away-their-ground-based-cousins
07:08 samcv yeah i've read it
07:08 samcv though i've never heard that phrase used before. other than in the booj
07:08 samcv *book
07:08 TEttinger hm
07:08 samcv wind turbine
07:09 TEttinger I think you're on the righ track though
07:09 samcv i guess i mean
07:09 TEttinger engine of progress is a term
07:09 TEttinger wheels of progress
07:09 samcv how about
07:09 samcv the international space station
07:09 TEttinger turbines are sorta engines
07:09 TEttinger heh
07:09 samcv *mindblown*
07:09 samcv that could be cool
07:10 samcv though idk maybe could make people feel distant and alone
07:10 samcv but it's very much continuous delivery
07:11 TEttinger that curve image is for a 5x5x5 curve, which is one of zillons possible, but the group has interesting properties if you need a tight mapping of points in a 3D cube to items in a collection that has a max size that's a poor fit for more normal curves like the Hilbert curve
07:12 TEttinger since a 2x2x2 uses 8 points or a power of 8, and this uses 125 points or, oddly, 125 times a power of 8 (due to how you can lay them out next to each other. continuously.)
07:14 samcv just have a 7-Eleven store on the cover
07:14 samcv 24 hour pharmacy
07:14 TEttinger ha totally
07:14 TEttinger there's some fun math stuff in the space-filling curve area. it's pretty crazy to me how there's always a relationship between hilbert curves and gray codes, despite them being discovered in completely separate fields and decades apart
07:15 TEttinger also, that applies in arbitrary dimensions, which is the real mind blowing part
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07:31 samcv nice
07:31 samcv that sounds neat
07:32 samcv there are many things in the natural world that are discovered in mathematics first and then end up getting discovered in physics and in nature later. because there is a natural structure of the universe and the rules that govern it can be seen many places
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07:36 samcv i took a class in university called symmetry and aesthetics in contempory physics, which was very interesting, in addition to many times stumbling upon the same algorithm seen in multiple places by *chance*, mathematicians and physisitss have often seeked symmetry, order, and elegance in their studies
07:37 samcv one of my favorite classes I ever took I think
07:42 llfourn samcv: going to test now if you still want it? :)
07:42 samcv yes very much
07:43 samcv i missed you
07:43 llfourn ^_^
07:45 samcv llfourn, sec lemme get you what to dtest
07:49 samcv llfourn, gonna make it easy for you
07:55 samcv ok llfourn https://gist.github.com/2aac7ec4ad19129365ee95bcb6a4aae4 you can just run this
07:55 llfourn samcv sure
07:55 samcv just run it as a script and it will label each time seperately from each other
07:56 samcv prolly will take 1 min per run
07:57 samcv oh uh
07:57 samcv for i in $(seq 1 4); do perl6 stringregexbench.p6 > /dev/null; done
07:57 samcv and it will only output the times and not the results of the regex
07:58 samcv since times go to stderr
07:58 llfourn kk :)
07:58 llfourn btw I am recompiling moar and then doing perl Configure.pl --gen-nqp --backends=moar
07:58 samcv you don't have to recompile nqp or rakudo
07:58 llfourn i guess I should recompile nqp each time?
07:58 samcv just moar
07:58 llfourn oh ok
07:59 samcv yeah
07:59 samcv recompiling nqp you need to compile rakudo. but moarvm is standalone
07:59 samcv since it just reads bytecode
08:00 llfourn yeah I guessed what you were doing is just needed at runtime but wasn't sure
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08:11 llfourn samcv: preliminary results: https://gist.github.com/LLFourn/f39625d7c0d2fee27f58bf4eda7bc3b8
08:12 llfourn looks like FreeBSD wins?
08:13 samcv yeah i knew that for macos. but geekosaur maybe i did have those backwards
08:14 samcv cause i'm getting faster for freebsd compared to glibc
08:15 samcv which is fine with me actually because the freebsd one is more easily integratable abort from libc. glibc was gonna be annoying if i wanted to use their library across platforms
08:15 samcv and take the code out and use it for mac or windows
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08:17 llfourn \o/
08:18 geekosaur you'd have a license problem anyway, don't think you could do that and relicense as dual gpl/artistic 2.0
08:20 samcv ok maybe i was wrong. i think that test was off for whatever reason. dunno why all results were slower
08:23 samcv though libc may have a little edge on glibc.
08:23 samcv so maybe it would just be easier to just use it for all versions
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08:26 llfourn https://gist.github.com/LLFourn/f39625d7c0d2fee27f58bf4eda7bc3b8 # updated with seq 1 4 results
08:30 samcv overall they seem very close between glibc and libc.. i'm inclided to keep my pull request as it stands now.
08:31 Woodi_ hallo #perl6 :)
08:31 samcv hello Woodi_
08:33 samcv since glibc seems to do better with more complex needles which may be more likely to happen in practice.
08:36 geekosaur so, uh, did you even think about the license situation I mentioned?
08:36 samcv the GPL one?
08:36 samcv or MIT one which freebsd has
08:37 samcv i was not aware GPL was incompatible with Artistic 2.0
08:37 samcv though i knew MIT was definetly ok
08:37 geekosaur gpl coe forces moarvm to be gpl instead of artistic 2.0
08:38 geekosaur https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/master/LICENSE
08:39 Woodi_ moritz: #deploy picture is realy nice but looks dreamy/impresionistic. a lot of "sharpness" would be much more "classic" for IT book :)  but "rack of servers" sounds realy nice for a topic. anyway, cover does not matter if book is good, could be plain black or white with some strings :)
08:41 samcv yep reading gpl/artistic texts makes that clear to me geekosaur.
08:42 samcv i think i misthought cause  i think perl is under artistic and GPL
08:42 samcv so thought they were compatible mistakingly
08:43 geekosaur even that's not good enough because any contributed code that is gpl license can't be used under artistic license
08:44 geekosaur the creator of a work can choose to dual-license. but since you took that code from glibc, you're bound by glibc's license
08:44 samcv yes i know
08:45 samcv i mistakenly though tthey were compatible becuase perl was gpl and artistic. thank you for helping point that out to me
08:48 moritz mst: I like the idea of using a möbius strip, maybe something like this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/maxf/7692061042
08:48 RabidGravy Boom!
08:48 samcv i like that moritz
08:49 samcv can it be a boat sailing on a mobius strip? heh
08:51 samcv or this https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/74/7a/ce/747ace162d395798a2948722cc4b792b.jpg
08:52 samcv "A Computer Mystery Adventure"
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08:53 samcv what's the craziest programming/computer book cover you guys know of?
08:54 RabidGravy what was that series of books with the people in traditional costumes?
08:54 samcv this one is not bad https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d8/2e/9f/d82e9f3ef8800bbb7d11bad32aac4d97.jpg
08:54 Woodi_ samcv: all that animals on O'Raily books ? :)
08:54 samcv i would buy that book
08:55 samcv they're just animals
08:55 samcv there's gotta be some super wierd cover
08:55 RabidGravy visualising hell sounds like my day job ;-)
08:55 samcv https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/41/Screamcover.jpg/250px-Screamcover.jpg
08:55 samcv oh no...
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08:58 RabidGravy https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41olwYd66-L._SX404_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg - these ones, what is that all about?
08:58 RabidGravy also the "Beginning $X" series with really appalling pictures of the authors on the front
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09:24 gfldex samcv: https://i2.wp.com/gfldex.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/0025e5041762b0f1822f2d230b58c821.jpg?ssl=1
09:24 moritz yes, that *is* weird
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09:26 RabidGravy I think we have a winner
09:27 RabidGravy somewhere in the house I have a book like "learning FORTH and COBOL in parallel" which is a weird concept in itself
09:29 RabidGravy and in that genre of totally not right on and inappropriate computer covers http://flashbak.com/yugoslavian-computer-magazine-cover-girls-of-the-1980s-90s-370271/
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10:17 andrzejk_ hey
10:17 andrzejk_ :)
10:18 andrzejk_ who is here?;s I need help much
10:32 RabidGravy you just think you do
10:37 andrzejk_ help me please
10:39 andrzejk_ RabidGravy ?
10:39 RabidGravy ASK THE QUESTION
10:40 andrzejk_ RabidGravy man don't be anger I just thought that noone here today
10:40 andrzejk_ RabidGravy I am looking for details or history how rakudo was built
10:41 RabidGravy I'm not angry :)
10:41 RabidGravy it's just better to ask the question then anyone who comes along can see it and answer
10:42 RabidGravy anyhow I'm off out shopping :)
10:42 lizmat .oO( it all started at a CamelHerders meeting long ago...)
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10:45 andrzejk_ lizmat is it some kind of council of the oldest perlers?
10:46 lizmat it used to be the name of the yearly meeting of p5p in person at OSCON (well, it was at least the one time I attended in 2000)
10:46 andrzejk_ ohh
10:46 andrzejk_ lizmat and jonathan was there?
10:47 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
10:47 lizmat Jonathan wasn't in the picture yet on account of being too young, I think  :-)
10:48 ufobat joined #perl6
10:48 andrzejk_ lizmat ohhh how that happend that Jonathan take a care of perl6 vm?
10:49 lizmat phew... that's a long stpry
10:49 lizmat one can write a book about that, and maybe someone will  :-)
10:49 lizmat well, I hope someone will...  :-)
10:49 timotimo jntn's bgrphy?
10:50 andrzejk_ huh
10:50 andrzejk_ lizmat are there some documents about perl6 vm how to start or smth?
10:50 lizmat hehe... no, more like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soul_of_a_New_Machine
10:50 timotimo you should read 6guts.wordpress.com, it's where jnthn blogs
10:52 andrzejk_ huh he is doing it from 6 years :S
10:52 timotimo he had a blog on use.perl.org, but the link is dead
10:53 andrzejk_ humm
10:53 andrzejk_ what about language design documents
10:53 andrzejk_ https://design.perl6.org/
10:53 andrzejk_ these looks very experimental
10:54 sammers hi all
10:54 timotimo at the beginning there were only the synopses
10:54 timotimo no, wait, the apocalypses might have been first?
10:54 lizmat yeah, wass about to say
10:55 timotimo right. first larry wrote the apocalypses, then damian conway wrote the exegesis
10:55 timotimo and from that combination of work the synopses were born
10:58 andrzejk_ what happend next?
11:00 lizmat many things were tried
11:00 lizmat most failed, but we learned from it, and some left a nice legacy
11:01 lizmat such as the pugs project, that gave us roast
11:01 lizmat http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?pugs
11:02 lizmat http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?timeline    # a timeline to 2010
11:03 andrzejk_ omg
11:03 andrzejk_ 17years
11:05 timotimo you didn't know that? :)
11:05 andrzejk_ no
11:06 andrzejk_ timotimo but it looks like all vms were created by 1 person in most
11:07 andrzejk_ mainly(
11:07 lizmat I guess that proves TimToady's point that it doesn't matter how long it took once it is there  :-)
11:07 timotimo parrot was started by two
11:08 timotimo the beginning of moarvm was mostly jnthn, then diakopter came in
11:09 timotimo then a bit of japhb
11:10 timotimo and then jimmyz
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11:10 timotimo more and more names appeared in the git log "4 years ago"
11:10 timotimo gotta go run an errand
11:10 andrzejk_ what about ideas
11:11 andrzejk_ did they took ideas from old vms
11:11 andrzejk_ and pick up them to new?
11:11 timotimo well, 6model was taken from parrot
11:11 timotimo and it has a GC, you can't have any new ideas in a GC
11:12 timotimo every single idea in GC has already been had in the late 1980
11:12 timotimo (well, not 100%, but at least 90%)
11:13 lizmat https://www.amazon.com/Garbage-Collection-Handbook-Management-Algorithms/dp/1420082795   # fresh GC ideas
11:13 lizmat and inspiration to MoarVM
11:13 andrzejk_ ye I heard about this book
11:13 timotimo "The Garbage Collection Handbook: The Art of Automatic Memory Management brings together a wealth of knowledge gathered by automatic memory management researchers and developers over the past fifty years."
11:13 timotimo not sure how fresh that makes it :D
11:14 andrzejk_ what about llvm?
11:14 andrzejk_ why perl vm developers didn't took it?
11:16 timotimo if you want to use llvm you have to design your program around llvm
11:17 timotimo you have no freedom any more, so to speak
11:17 timotimo and it was deemed much too low level for us
11:20 andrzejk_ what do you mean?
11:20 timotimo http://brrt-to-the-future.blogspot.de/2015_11_01_archive.html?m=1
11:20 timotimo this post discussed llvm a bit
11:24 timotimo hope that helps at all?
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11:26 El_Che andrzejk_: are you writing an article?
11:26 andrzejk_ no
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11:41 timotimo i might have actually been wrong about "everything was already invented in the 1980", and some interesting new stuff may exist
11:42 El_Che timotimo: yes, grandad :)
11:43 timotimo grand dad?! grand dad?!?!? what the ***     ;)
11:44 andrzejk_ how to get perl6 language specification
11:44 andrzejk_ anyone know it?
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11:46 mscha This may be a dumb question, but it seems like class Foo { has $bar } is valid.  What's that supposed to do?  It seems to be equivalent to class Foo { has $!bar }.
11:47 timotimo andrzejk_: the language is specified by the test suite
11:47 timotimo git clone git@github.com:perl6/roast
11:48 jnthn mscha: It's a sop to people who don't like sigils. ;) It installs a lexical alias, meaning that $x will compile into $!x within the body of the class (unless you hide it)
11:48 lucs And before the beginning, the RFCs.
11:48 jnthn Uh, don't like *twigils*
11:48 jnthn :)
11:48 sammers can someone confirm a zef install error for me?
11:48 mscha OK, thanks.
11:48 timotimo we can try. what's wrong?
11:48 jnthn It hasn't been widely used, though :)
11:48 andrzejk_ what some ebnf definitions?
11:49 sammers I am getting a few failures on several modules, Bailador is one...
11:49 timotimo andrzejk_: don't have 'em
11:49 lucs (oops, a bit late -- note to self: make sure view is current when posting)
11:49 timotimo we do have the std grammar, though. which hasn't been updated in multiple years
11:49 timotimo (rakudo has instead been brought much closer to the std grammar)
11:49 sammers I just want to see if anyone else sees the same issue
11:49 andrzejk_ OK I NEED TO GO KIDS ;S
11:49 jnthn andrzejk_: If you want a formal specification of the syntax, then Grammar.nqp in Rakudo is as close as you'll get :)
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11:50 timotimo sammers: can you give us all your versions first?
11:50 sammers also these three,
11:50 jnthn lunch &
11:50 sammers HTTP::MultiPartParser
11:50 sammers Template6
11:50 sammers yYTY
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11:51 timotimo aha!
11:51 sammers timotimo: zef 0.1.5
11:51 timotimo Template6 relies on hash ordering in one of its tests
11:52 sammers ah, that changed recently?
11:52 timotimo no
11:52 timotimo it was never reliable
11:52 sammers ah
11:52 timotimo it was always a very bad idea to rely on hash ordering in anything
11:52 timotimo it's just not very likely you'll get caught, because we don't actively randomize order
11:53 timotimo which is something we might want to start doing soon
11:53 timotimo because attacks on hash keys is a Real Thing™
11:54 timotimo let's see about making that test better
11:56 sammers will hash ordering be removed eventually?
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12:00 timotimo hash ordering is not something you can remove
12:00 timotimo it's purely an observational thing
12:01 sammers so they are expecting the pairs to be in order, but there is no guarantee
12:01 timotimo that's right
12:02 sammers so lists are ordered, is there a way to make an unordered-list? shuffle?
12:02 timotimo you can use .pick(*) when you're iterating
12:04 sammers m: say ['a', 'b', 'c'].pick(*);
12:04 camelia rakudo-moar d673ea: OUTPUT: «(a b c)␤»
12:04 sammers m: say ('a', 'b', 'c').pick(*);
12:04 camelia rakudo-moar d673ea: OUTPUT: «(b a c)␤»
12:04 timotimo made a pullrequest
12:05 timotimo https://github.com/supernovus/template6/pull/18
12:07 timotimo okay, let's look at the MultiPartParser
12:08 timotimo i'd really like it if "zef look" had an option (or maybe a different command) that'd git clone the repository so i could immediately "hub fork", hack on stuff, then "hub pullrequest"
12:08 timotimo ugexe: ^ is that in scope for zef?
12:09 sammers yeah, there is an an open issue for it...
12:09 timotimo uh oh, that uses JSON::Fast ... i hope i didn't b0rk it
12:09 gfldex timotimo: it might be in scope for META6::bin
12:11 timotimo geez, the output for the multipartparser's tests are gigantic
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12:15 timotimo dangit
12:15 timotimo sammers: HTTP::MultiPartParser being broken is my fault, it's some problem inside JSON::Fast, which i just rewrote a part of
12:16 sammers what!
12:16 timotimo it's not backslashing correctly
12:17 * gfldex always considered JSON as root of some evil
12:18 sammers ok, np, I am just looking for issues related to bailador some of the other web-related modules and assist where I can. thanks for jumping on these and fixing all the stuff you are breaking.
12:18 timotimo haha
12:18 sammers ha
12:19 timotimo yeah, how do you even properly \\
12:19 timotimo probably not without .trans actually
12:19 Geth ¦ ecosystem: gfldex++ created pull request #314: add Slippy::Semilist
12:19 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/314
12:19 timotimo i.e. not by calling .subst multiple times
12:20 sammers just add another .subst, it should fix it.
12:20 timotimo no, i don't think so
12:20 sammers :)
12:20 timotimo if i turn \\ into \ first, then \n into newline, it'll turn \\n into a newline
12:21 timotimo if i first turn \n into newline, then \\ into \, it'll turn \\n into \ and a newline
12:21 timotimo there goes my hopes and dreams of being fast
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12:29 timotimo the worst thing is my tests not catching any problems
12:36 timotimo bah, backslashes. it's a real hassle to get them right when you've got either a shell or perl6 strings
12:38 mr-foobar joined #perl6
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12:43 mscha m: my %foo = 42=>(1,2); say %foo{42}; my @f = %foo{42}; say @f; # huh?
12:43 camelia rakudo-moar 188b7b: OUTPUT: «(1 2)␤[(1 2)]␤»
12:44 mscha m: my %foo = 42=>[1,2]; say %foo{42}; my @f = %foo{42}; say @f; # huh?
12:44 camelia rakudo-moar 188b7b: OUTPUT: «[1 2]␤[[1 2]]␤»
12:44 timotimo grr. is-deeply is giving me a fail, but visual inspection says it should pass
12:46 timotimo ah, is-deeply is "just" eqv
12:48 lizmat timotimo: I just had that, turned out a Map !eqv Hash  :-)
12:49 timotimo interesting.
12:49 timotimo i wonder if that applies here.
12:49 timotimo but i have something mysterious here it seems like
12:49 timotimo i'm getting "cannot modify an immuatble Pair" from code like for @(@got[$i]) >>,<< @($exp[$i])
12:52 timotimo oh, why not use Data::Dump::Tree
12:52 Geth ¦ ecosystem: dcb615b605 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | META.list
12:52 Geth ¦ ecosystem: add Slippy::Semilist (#314)
12:52 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
12:52 Geth ¦ ecosystem: https://github.com/gfldex/perl6-slippy-semilist
12:52 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/dcb615b605
12:54 timotimo huh
12:54 timotimo i thought Data::Dump::Tree had a diff functionality
12:55 timotimo oh yeah
12:55 timotimo wow, that module is very unhappy right now
12:56 timotimo method !set_lookup_table(%lookup, $ansi_code) { for %lookup.kv -> $k, $v { %!color_lookup{$k} = $ansi_code($v) } }
12:56 timotimo this line gets:
12:56 timotimo Cannot find method 'Any' on object of type Str
12:56 timotimo what the ...? :)
12:57 timotimo well, the module needs changed for the lexical require stuff anyway
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13:08 timotimo :\
13:08 timotimo Terminal::ANSIColor isn't cooperating with me here
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13:09 timotimo timo@schmand ~> perl6 -e '(try require ::("Terminal::ANSIColor")); say ::("Terminal::ANSIColor")::("EXPORT").keys'
13:09 timotimo ()
13:09 timotimo why is there nothing in the whole package?
13:09 timotimo oh, because "is export" only happens when you "use"?
13:11 timotimo well, wtf is this
13:11 timotimo i can ::("&Terminal::ANSIColor::color"), but ::("Terminal::ANSIColor")::.keys gives me ()  ... ?!?
13:14 timotimo "Cannot resolve caller AUTOGEN(AnsiColor: ); none of these signatures match" ugh, what now?
13:16 Actualeyes joined #perl6
13:16 timotimo ;_;
13:16 timotimo the first test checks if the number of lines output is equal to a number
13:17 jdmmmmm joined #perl6
13:18 timotimo these tests make me thoroughly unhappy
13:25 timotimo graaaaaargh
13:25 timotimo the .perl outputs for the strings eqv, but not the strings themselves
13:26 timotimo what is this absolute madness
13:26 timotimo when i .encode('utf8') them, it's also eqv. and .WHAT is eqv between both, too
13:29 timotimo they even eq to False
13:30 timotimo i'll leave this rabbit hole for someone else to figure out, i'd say >:(
13:31 llfourn timotimo: probably a bug in require not replacing the stub package properly
13:32 timotimo but in a one-liner i can use that sub for stuff?
13:32 llfourn hmm actually require Terminal::ANSIColor; say ::("Terminal::ANSIColor").WHO.keys works for me
13:33 timotimo that's the other way to require, yeah
13:33 timotimo is .WHO.keys different from ::.keys?
13:33 llfourn apparently after an indirect lookup it is :D
13:34 llfourn :: is compile time?
13:34 timotimo m: say "foo"::.keys
13:34 camelia rakudo-moar 188b7b: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Confused␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "foo":7⏏5:.keys␤    expecting any of:␤        colon pair␤»
13:35 timotimo i wouldn't expect it to be, tbh
13:35 llfourn hmm yeah I don't think it is or at least it doesn't have to be
13:35 llfourn m: require Test; say Test::.keys
13:35 camelia rakudo-moar 188b7b: OUTPUT: «(&todo_output EXPORT &failure_output &output)␤»
13:36 timotimo btw
13:37 timotimo m: require ::"Terminal::AnsiColor"
13:37 camelia rakudo-moar 188b7b: OUTPUT: «===SORRY!===␤MVMArray: Can't shift from an empty array␤»
13:37 llfourn m: say ::"Terminal::Ansifoo"
13:37 camelia rakudo-moar 188b7b: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say ::7⏏5"Terminal::Ansifoo"␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement m…»
13:38 llfourn That's weird
13:38 timotimo OK, i got it to work now
13:39 timotimo do you think you could help me figure out the string eqv thing?
13:40 timotimo um, what the heck ...
13:40 llfourn what's the string eqv thing exactly?
13:40 timotimo well, i have two strings that are equal in all respects i could find, but they are not eqv
13:41 timotimo their .WHAT are eqv, encoding them to utf8 gives me equal utf8 arrays, their .perl are also eq, and the strings themselves are also eq
13:41 llfourn how do we produce such strings?
13:42 timotimo it happens in the HTTP multipart parser test suite
13:44 timotimo wow, i'm a dummy
13:44 timotimo there was a method "color" and i added an attribute "color"
13:44 llfourn well, eqv for Str looks like it tests .WHERE essentially
13:45 timotimo oh? that's not right
13:46 timotimo Str is a value type?
13:46 llfourn oh no I misread it
13:46 llfourn it tests the address first then then iseq_s
13:47 timotimo OK
13:47 timotimo absolutely incredible!
13:47 timotimo D::D::T now passes its tests!
13:47 llfourn \o/ # tests passing for things
13:48 timotimo okay, got a pull request
13:49 * llfourn goes to start reading moritz++'s devops book
13:50 timotimo i'm glad nkh just touched DDT in the last 2 weeks
13:54 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
13:59 masak timotimo: I read "D::D::T" and for one horrible moment I thought type definedness smiley syntax had evolved without me noticing
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14:03 moritz llfourn: thanks for buying! Feedback is always very welcome
14:07 dmaestro joined #perl6
14:08 El_Che moritz: GoCD is confusing. I guess it has nothing to do with Go(lang)?
14:15 timotimo masak: :)
14:15 timotimo fwiw, Data::Dump::Tree is very cool and you should all check it out
14:16 timotimo (may need to use my pullrequest to make it work, though)
14:16 timotimo (and that pullrequest depends on AnsiColor's pullrequest ... maybe?)
14:16 timotimo hm. it actually doesn't
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14:32 timotimo huh. one seems to have actually \r\n, the other seems to have a synthetic there
14:32 timotimo how the eff did we end up with that?
14:32 gfldex https://github.com/supernovus/exemel is broken too
14:33 gfldex likely IO related
14:33 timotimo https://gist.github.com/timo/94421784d6471142c424379e8d514814 - here's the strings as seen by gdb
14:36 gfldex perl6 -e 'say so IO::Handle.new ~~ IO'
14:36 gfldex that's the culprit
14:36 timotimo ah, yes
14:36 timotimo good catch
14:38 timotimo anyway
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14:38 timotimo these two strings have different nqp::chars, but they render out to the same utf8
14:38 gfldex IO is a role, should be not problem to pull that in
14:38 timotimo IO will get/has been thrown out
14:38 timotimo it was useless
14:39 gfldex XML.pm6 does use it in a multi as a type check
14:39 gfldex https://github.com/supernovus/exemel/blob/master/lib/XML.pm6
14:40 gfldex line 36 fails now because from-xml-stream does a check against role IO
14:40 timotimo The changes that may affect existing code are:
14:40 timotimo role IO together with its IO.umask method have been removed without any replacement
14:40 timotimo that's from the latest rakudo.org post
14:40 timotimo not latest
14:40 timotimo second-to-latest
14:41 Khisanth joined #perl6
14:41 gfldex is there a role now that says 'a IO::Path or IO::Handle i don't care'?
14:44 Geth ¦ doc: 460f1e6ba3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
14:44 Geth ¦ doc: Remove trailing whitespace
14:44 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/460f1e6ba3
14:45 Geth ¦ doc: 65cc372243 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
14:45 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Document IO::Path.concat-with
14:45 Geth ¦ doc:
14:45 Geth ¦ doc: - Does what .child used to do
14:45 Geth ¦ doc: - .child will be changed to throw for non-child paths
14:45 Geth ¦ doc:
14:45 Geth ¦ doc: Rakudo impl: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/966a7e3a10
14:45 Geth ¦ doc: Tests: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0e47f25e07
14:45 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/65cc372243
14:47 timotimo gfldex: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/docs/2017-IO-Grant--Action-Plan.md#remove-role-io--along-with-its-only-ioumask-method-issue-for-discussion
14:47 moritz El_Che: GoCD and golang are not related
14:48 timotimo gfldex: https://github.com/supernovus/exemel/pull/43
14:50 gfldex ok
14:50 gfldex 4 days ago :-/
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15:18 masak m: multi sub B() { say "multi" }; &B.wrap(sub {say before"; callsame; say "after"}); B()
15:18 camelia rakudo-moar 38c40b: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3{ say "multi" }; &B.wrap(sub {say before7⏏5"; callsame; say "after"}); B()␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix…»
15:18 masak m: multi sub B() { say "multi" }; &B.wrap(sub {say "before"; callsame; say "after"}); B()
15:18 camelia rakudo-moar 38c40b: OUTPUT: «before␤multi␤after␤»
15:18 masak w00t
15:18 masak (RT #77472)
15:18 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=77472
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15:21 BenGoldberg m: multi sub B() { say "multi" }; &B.wrap(sub {say "before"; {*}; say "after"}); B()
15:21 camelia rakudo-moar 38c40b: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤{*} may only appear in proto␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3multi" }; &B.wrap(sub {say "before"; {*}7⏏5; say "after"}); B()␤    expecting any of:␤        horizontal whitespace␤        term␤»
15:23 BenGoldberg m: multi sub B() { "multi" }; &B.wrap(sub {"before" ~ callsame ~ "after"}); say B()
15:23 camelia rakudo-moar 38c40b: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling callsame(Str) will never work with declared signature ()␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3() { "multi" }; &B.wrap(sub {"before" ~ 7⏏5callsame ~ "after"}); say B()␤»
15:23 BenGoldberg m: multi sub B() { "multi" }; &B.wrap(sub {"before" ~ callsame() ~ "after"}); say B()
15:23 camelia rakudo-moar 38c40b: OUTPUT: «beforemultiafter␤»
15:25 * BenGoldberg *almost* wishes perl6 did the perl5 parsing thing, where if the parser knows that some function has no arguments, code after it is not processed as a list.  But that's one of the things which makes perl5 parsing evil, so ...
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15:30 Geth ¦ doc: 24a6ea9a47 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 5 files
15:30 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Toss all of the TODO methods in IO::Spec*
15:30 Geth ¦ doc:
15:30 Geth ¦ doc: Don't know who or what added these, but many (most?) of them are
15:30 Geth ¦ doc: wrong (type doesn't provide them) and those that aren't list
15:30 Geth ¦ doc: implementation-specific signatures.
15:30 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/24a6ea9a47
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15:32 pmurias if there is a test in roast that's fudged for rakudo it means it's part of 6.c but rakudo has a bug?
15:33 Geth ¦ doc: 1f75ddcb81 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
15:33 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Document IO::Spec*.abs2rel
15:33 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1f75ddcb81
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15:54 TimToady m: multi sub term:<B>() { "multi" }; &term:<B>.wrap(sub {"before" ~ callsame() ~ "after"}); say B
15:54 camelia rakudo-moar 94a690: OUTPUT: «beforemultiafter␤»
15:55 TimToady BenGoldberg: ^^^ you can, it just spelled differently
15:55 TimToady *it's
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16:04 tomboy64 are there any news regarding rakudo + jvm?
16:04 tomboy64 e.g. is it still broken?
16:04 tomboy64 (doesn't build for me since about a year)
16:08 BenGoldberg m: multi sub term:<B>() { "multi" }; &term:<B>.wrap(sub {"before" ~ callsame ~ "after"}); say B
16:08 camelia rakudo-moar 94a690: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling callsame(Str) will never work with declared signature ()␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3ulti" }; &term:<B>.wrap(sub {"before" ~ 7⏏5callsame ~ "after"}); say B␤»
16:17 timotimo BenGoldberg: callsame isn't a term, so it's nomming ~"after" as one argument
16:19 Geth ¦ doc: cc62dd240c | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
16:19 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Kill IO::Path.abspath
16:19 Geth ¦ doc:
16:19 Geth ¦ doc: Use IO::Path.absolute, which is the same thing
16:19 Geth ¦ doc:
16:19 Geth ¦ doc: Rakudo removal: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cb323d5dd3
16:19 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/cc62dd240c
16:22 BenGoldberg .seen ioninja
16:22 yoleaux I saw IOninja 22 Mar 2017 06:33 EDT in #perl6: <IOninja> But if that's not up to par to the standards of this channel, I can leave.
16:22 BenGoldberg .seen zoffix
16:22 yoleaux I saw Zoffix 7 Apr 2017 14:12 EDT in #perl6: <Zoffix> BOTS WERE MEANT TO BE FREE!
16:22 simcop2387 yoleaux: help
16:23 BenGoldberg yoleaux's commands start with .
16:23 timotimo BenGoldberg: find zoffix in #perl6-dev
16:24 timotimo #perl6 is too noisy for 'em, which i can totally understand
16:24 noize joined #perl6
16:30 TimToady m: my &term:<same> = &callsame; multi sub term:<B>() { "multi" }; &term:<B>.wrap(sub {"before" ~ same ~ "after"}); say B
16:30 camelia rakudo-moar 94a690: OUTPUT: «beforemultiafter␤»
16:30 TimToady though, given it's a term, and can have no args, one wonders why it's a multi...
16:31 TimToady if you were hoping to have different syntax for different multi candidates, that's insane :)
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16:59 ugexe timotimo: theoretically yes. i'm just not sure how to generalize that functionality to something that non-git modules could also use. Maybe its a good use for the difference of source-url and `support : { source: "..." }`
17:00 Cabanossi joined #perl6
17:02 ugexe curt tilmes says he is close to releasing his perl6 GraphQL module
17:03 Geth ¦ doc: 1973010455 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
17:03 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Document IO::Path.ACCEPTS
17:03 Geth ¦ doc:
17:03 Geth ¦ doc: N.B. currently refers to undocumented `:completely` arg to .resolve.
17:03 Geth ¦ doc: It's not a mistake; the argument will be implemented and documented
17:03 Geth ¦ doc: as part of IO grant work.
17:03 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1973010455
17:03 ugexe (which is affected by current MultipartParser failure)
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17:33 timotimo ugexe: aye, it could very well be
17:39 Geth ¦ doc: b3a93247bf | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
17:39 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Expand/fix up IO::Path.accessed
17:39 Geth ¦ doc:
17:39 Geth ¦ doc: This isn't the doc about working with Instants, so toss all that prose
17:39 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b3a93247bf
17:45 timotimo sammers: with my latest JSON::Fast commits, HTTP::MultiPartParser installs fine
17:48 timotimo sammers: and i was able to install Bailador just now
17:48 ufobat \o/
17:51 Geth ¦ doc: 1cd7de018f | (Zoffix Znet)++ | type-graph.txt
17:51 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Fix up type graph
17:51 Geth ¦ doc:
17:51 Geth ¦ doc: I'm assuming this file is maintained by hand and not a script.
17:51 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1cd7de018f
17:52 timotimo ugexe: what was the problem with zef and testers.p6c.org again?
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18:01 timotimo Failed running /home/travis/.rakudobrew/bin/../moar-nom/install/bin/perl6 -Ilib bin/zef test . at /home/travis/.rakudobrew/bin/rakudobrew line 58
18:01 timotimo ?!?!?
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18:08 ugexe why not moar-blead ?
18:11 timotimo i'unno, is that the reason?
18:12 ugexe there are not any methods for sending data. almost everything using the Fetcher role has the capability to send data though, so just adding some method to a few of those (curl/wget) and then adding a Zef::Report phase (just the boilerplate from Zef::Fetch/Build/etc) module and entry into config.json
18:14 ugexe the phases Zef::Fetch/Build/etc are just aggregators of Zef::Service::* that fullfill some combination of Fetch Build Test etc roles - so that boilerplate already handles sending reports to multiple reports (if they existed)
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18:21 ugexe timotimo: Zef::Client also has a $.logger that you can tap (probably some more stuff should use these events internally) https://github.com/ugexe/zef/blob/master/lib/Zef/Client.pm6#L339
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18:26 Geth ¦ doc: 56256d03fd | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Special.pod6
18:26 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Minor formatting improvements in IO::Special
18:26 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/56256d03fd
18:27 timotimo oof, so i'm supposed to implement it? :) :)
18:27 jdmmmmm joined #perl6
18:33 ugexe really you should only have to implement some generic send method for wget/curl (or any other Fetcher) like here: https://github.com/ugexe/zef/blob/master/lib/Zef/Service/Shell/curl.pm6#L18
18:33 mst moritz: I was also thinking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_stairs
18:33 ugexe the other part is easy too but i'd probably get around to doing it if that much was done
18:44 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 7d36674a83 | (Nick Logan)++ | META.list
18:44 Geth ¦ ecosystem: META.info -> META6.json
18:44 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/7d36674a83
18:46 mcmillhj joined #perl6
18:48 Geth ¦ doc: 184342c79e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Special.pod6
18:48 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Document IO::Special.what
18:48 Geth ¦ doc:
18:48 Geth ¦ doc: Split off part of .new prose and list .what as a separate section,
18:48 Geth ¦ doc: since it is a public attribute.
18:48 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/184342c79e
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19:52 gfldex m: class C {}; dd $?PACKAGE, $?PACKAGE::.keys, GLOBAL::.keys;
19:52 camelia rakudo-moar 50a0dc: OUTPUT: «GLOBAL␤()␤("C",).Seq␤»
19:53 gfldex if $?PACKAGE points to GLOBAL, shouldn't $?PACKAGE::.keys say the same then GLOBAL::.keys?
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22:06 Voldenet is there any use case (performance-related use case) to use Array[Int]?
22:06 Voldenet And is there some good way to convert a range or iterable into an Array?
22:09 timotimo you can just @foo = @$the-thing
22:10 Voldenet m: sub b(Array[Int] $x) { $x.say }; b(^10.Array);
22:10 camelia rakudo-moar bf6371: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤    Precedence of ^ is looser than method call; please parenthesize␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3sub b(Array[Int] $x) { $x.say }; b(^107⏏5.Array);␤Type check failed in binding to parameter '$x'; expected Array[Int] bu…»
22:10 Voldenet not as expected
22:10 Voldenet m: sub b(Array[Int] $x) { $x.say }; b(Array[int](^10));
22:10 camelia rakudo-moar bf6371: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in assignment to ; expected int but got Int (0)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
22:10 Voldenet m: sub b(Array[Int] $x) { $x.say }; b(Array[Int](^10));
22:10 camelia rakudo-moar bf6371: OUTPUT: «[0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]␤»
22:11 Voldenet but is Array[Int] a /performant way of doing calculations/ (as in: can I use SSE anyhow?)
22:11 timotimo it can not yet do sse or some such
22:12 timotimo for very performant stuff you want "my int @foobar"
22:12 timotimo which will give you 64bit ints
22:12 timotimo as opposed to Int which is arbitrary-size
22:12 Voldenet ah, it's best as I can get now
22:12 timotimo yup, just be careful to not go back and forth between int and Int too much; values would have to be boxed and unboxed in that case
22:12 timotimo i'm not sure if it's still the case, but i think $foo++ is still a lot slower than $foo = $foo + 1 with native ints
22:13 Voldenet huh, that's very odd
22:14 Voldenet but thanks for the info, well for SSE i can use native calls, I guess
22:14 Cabanossi joined #perl6
22:16 timotimo yeah
22:16 timotimo we're working on a new JIT that can be a whole lot smarter about things, but i have no clue how hard it'll be to teach it sse instructions
22:17 Voldenet well yeah, most languages would fail in SSE situation
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22:19 timotimo we do already have nice syntax for vectorized operations, like >>+<< for example
22:25 Voldenet uh, >>+<<... never heard of that one
22:26 Voldenet ah, it's a union
22:26 Voldenet or not
22:27 geekosaur https://docs.perl6.org/language/operators#Hyper_Operators
22:27 Voldenet yeah, I'm reading about it now, I see how it works
22:27 Voldenet it's quite fancy :D
22:28 Voldenet m: say ^10 >>->> ^2
22:28 camelia rakudo-moar bf6371: OUTPUT: «(0 0 2 2 4 4 6 6 8 8)␤»
22:28 * geekosaur winces at "...full reign over..."
22:30 Voldenet ;-)
22:37 mr-foobar joined #perl6
22:38 gfldex i just found a usecase for UNIT:: :)
22:58 samcv hello beautiful people
22:58 samcv hope you all are doing great today
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23:01 u-ou o/
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23:12 Geth ¦ doc: dmaestro++ created pull request #1273: Document the infix method call operators
23:12 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/pull/1273
23:15 tbrowder hey samcv, u-ou, and rest of #perl6 gang!
23:15 samcv hello
23:16 u-ou :)
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23:55 redfd hi
23:55 redfd i use rakudo
23:55 redfd how install zef?
23:56 timotimo you can git clone git@github.com:ugexe/zef
23:57 timotimo and then cd in there and then: perl6 -Ilib bin/zef install .
23:57 mcmillhj joined #perl6
23:59 redfd perl6 -Ilib bin/zef install . All candidates are currently installed No reason to proceed. Use --force to continue anyway

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