Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-04-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 redfd done?
00:00 timotimo cool, then you have zef
00:00 redfd why nor work command zef?
00:00 timotimo you have probably not added the path to you rpath yet
00:00 redfd how add? please
00:01 timotimo you're on linux?
00:01 redfd yes
00:01 timotimo OK, typically, you'd add paths in your ~/.profile
00:02 redfd this? ~/rakudo-star-2017.01/modules/zef# ls bin  lib  LICENSE  logotype  META6.json  README.pod  resourcest  xt
00:02 timotimo no, more like /home/timo/perl6/install/share/perl6/site/bin/zef
00:02 timotimo depending on where you installed rakudo-star to
00:02 timotimo i have this perl6 folder in my home where i put everything perl6-related
00:02 timotimo i don't know where rakudo-star installs to by default
00:03 timotimo what do you get from "which perl6"?
00:03 redfd stop, please_ I can use p6 without root?
00:03 mst redfd: of course you can
00:04 mst redfd: how did you install rakduo-star ?
00:04 redfd which perl6 /usr/local/bin/perl6
00:04 timotimo oh, you installed it into your system
00:04 mst ok, so you installed it as root
00:04 mst why did you install it as root if you want to use it without root?
00:04 redfd i dont know
00:04 redfd ))
00:04 redfd brb
00:05 redfd i want install perl6
00:05 redfd with zef
00:05 mst what happens if you run 'which zef' ?
00:06 redfd nothing
00:06 redfd no zef
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00:09 ugexe m: say $*REPO.repo-chain.grep(* ~~ CompUnit::Repository::Installable).map(*.prefix.child("bin").absolute)
00:09 camelia rakudo-moar bf6371: OUTPUT: «(/home/camelia/.perl6/bin /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site/bin /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor/bin /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/bin)␤»
00:09 ugexe zef is installed to one of those paths already, but its not in your PATH
00:10 redfd I'm reinstallling again
00:11 redfd how make p6 without root? with zef? please help
00:11 redfd step to reproduce)
00:12 ugexe https://github.com/ugexe/zef/blob/master/.travis.yml#L20-L27
00:12 ugexe that is how to install rakudo and set the PATH properly. then you can install zef and it will work because PATH will already be set
00:12 redfd ok I do rm rakudo
00:12 ugexe note its line 20 to 27 specifically
00:13 redfd so
00:13 ugexe you dont have to do the two export ZEF_* lines tho
00:13 redfd i dont know
00:13 timotimo when you use that "export", you'll only have the right path in your PATH until you close that shell, and also only in that shell, not in others
00:13 redfd step 1 for install perl6?
00:14 redfd i want rakudo-star
00:15 redfd not *brew
00:15 redfd because in brew not work zef
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00:15 redfd zef cant download LWP::Simple
00:15 redfd and so on
00:16 redfd test with errors
00:16 ugexe zef works with rakudobrew. your setup sounds broken
00:16 redfd wtf? its normal for p6?
00:16 redfd or I stupid?)
00:17 ugexe it sounds like you have multiple perl6 installs in your PATH, both rakudobrew and regular
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00:18 redfd so, I download this http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-latest.tar.gz rigth??
00:19 ugexe I don't use rakudo-star other than on windows, so I can't help you there
00:19 redfd hmm
00:20 redfd maybe rakudobrew??
00:20 timotimo rakudobrew isn't meant for end-users
00:22 redfd what meant for end users?
00:23 timotimo just the steps ugexe linked to from the .travis.yml file
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00:25 redfd ok
00:27 redfd perl Configure.pl $VM_OPTS --gen-nqp --backends=$BACKEND
00:27 redfd what is it?
00:28 timotimo ah i didn't look closely
00:28 timotimo one thing you may be interested in is using a --prefix=somepath
00:28 timotimo like, my prefix is /home/timo/perl6/install
00:28 redfd perl Configure.pl --gen-moar --gen-nqp --backends=moar -- its ok?
00:29 timotimo well, you may want a --prefix
00:29 redfd so.. perl Configure.pl /home/user/perl6/install --gen-moar --gen-nqp --backends=moar ?
00:30 timotimo you have to put --prefix= in front of the path
00:30 redfd so.. perl Configure.pl --prefix=/home/user/perl6/install --gen-moar --gen-nqp --backends=moar ?
00:30 timotimo that looks good
00:30 redfd ok
00:31 redfd one momet
00:31 timotimo i'll go to bed real soon
00:31 timotimo but there's good instructions in the README
00:31 redfd i ubderstand English
00:31 redfd very bad
00:32 timotimo wait, maybe the instructions you need are in INSTALL, not in README
00:32 timotimo okay it's INSTALL.txt
00:33 redfd now
00:33 redfd I just want perl6 and zef
00:34 redfd i complet perl Configure.pl --prefix=/home/user/perl6/install --gen-moar --gen-nqp --backends=moar |||| what next?
00:34 timotimo "make" and then "make install"
00:34 redfd ok
00:34 timotimo after that do the thing with zef again: go into zef's directory and "perl6 -Ilib bin/zef install ."
00:35 timotimo i wish you the best of luck :)
00:35 timotimo good night!
00:35 redfd thank \ u2)
00:42 llfourn Just got my TPF 50min talk approved \o/. Going to be talking about: https://github.com/spitsh/spitsh
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01:48 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
01:48 tbrowder ref docs, routine symlink: it seems that the p6 symlink args are reversed from the *nix link cmd, or am i misreading it?
01:51 Voldenet > ln [OPTION]... [-T] TARGET LINK_NAME   (1st form)
01:52 Voldenet > sub    symlink(Str $target, Str $name --> Bool)
01:52 Voldenet doesn't seem reversed
01:54 Voldenet but I do dislike that it's not consistent with cp, which basically is 'cp name target'
01:55 tbrowder but look at the docs, 2nd arg is name of file, not link, oppo from ln
01:56 * grondilu thinks the target should be a named parameter
01:56 tbrowder ln -s filename link
01:56 redfd help please
01:56 redfd perl6 -Ilib bin/zef install . All candidates are currently installed No reason to proceed. Use --force to continue anyway
01:56 Voldenet oh
01:56 Voldenet yeah, naming choices there
01:56 redfd which zef - no result
01:56 Voldenet *cough*
01:57 mst redfd: please uninstall all perl6s you already installed and start from a clean system
01:58 mst redfd: you are guessing and we don't know what's on your system
01:58 redfd no
01:58 mst then no help
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02:03 redfd ok
02:03 tbrowder well, docs are correct, symlink is reversed from *nix ln, bummer!
02:04 tbrowder although, to be fair, i always thought ln should be that way, too
02:05 tbrowder when you do ls -l on a link it show link then tgt
02:05 redfd i dont kbow use symlink)
02:07 BenGoldberg m: dd symlink("/nope", "/nope")
02:07 camelia rakudo-moar bf6371: OUTPUT: «symlink is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 1␤  in sub symlink at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 18␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
02:08 BenGoldberg m:  dd symlink("/nope", "/nope") if 0;
02:08 camelia rakudo-moar bf6371: ( no output )
02:14 redfd please
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02:17 redfd have derectory /home/xxxxx/perl6/install/share/perl6/site/bin/
02:17 redfd ./zef running
02:17 redfd how facking add symlink?
02:17 dmaestro tbrowder: I suppose an idiom like this is intended: perl6 -e 'my $fn = "file.pl6".IO; $fn ~~ :f && say "new-link".IO.symlink($fn)'
02:18 redfd please give me command
02:21 dmaestro redfd: what file do you want to link to, and where do you want to put the link?
02:21 redfd ./zef
02:21 redfd in /home/xxxxx/perl6/install/share/perl6/site/bin/
02:22 mst why is /home/xxxxx/perl6/install/share/perl6/site/bin not in your $PATH
02:22 mst if you want to be able to run that?
02:25 redfd how add ?
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02:56 u-ou hi
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04:43 samcv what in the actual.... how the hell
04:43 samcv how does this happen
04:44 samcv look at the numbers https://i.imgur.com/ePs6Ygc.png
04:44 samcv that is not in my code
04:45 geekosaur terminal's auto font switching to get the glyphs and not switching back properly
04:45 samcv maybe
04:46 samcv it happens every time i run it
04:46 geekosaur because every line it happens on has a glyph, and the lines that don't do it render nothing
04:46 samcv hmm
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04:47 samcv yeah
04:48 samcv uh my other terminal stops showing at 171
04:48 samcv really weird
04:50 geekosaur lots of possibilities, sadly. probably not an ft2 issue but could be fontconfig, likely pango for VTE-based terminals, or the terminal itself
04:50 geekosaur many versions of pango are buggy for non-ISO, non-CJK characters :/
04:52 * geekosaur keeps running into that rendering hebrew and arabic
04:53 samcv yeah
04:54 samcv oh i think it actually is just rando  characters
04:54 samcv and it just happened to be the same number.
04:54 samcv my code's not properly resetting something
04:54 samcv and it iterate the chacaters forever maybe
04:56 samcv yay i think i fixed it
04:56 samcv really weird that it somehow lined up with actual numbers
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05:14 u-ou im a baby perl6er
05:25 skids o/
05:27 u-ou oh, man you can make special variables your arguments
05:27 u-ou I love that
05:27 u-ou like for $/ or $_
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06:39 samcv magic
06:39 samcv perl is just special
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08:05 moritz \o
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08:27 simcop2387 m: 1+1
08:27 camelia rakudo-moar bf6371: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "+" in expression "1+1" in sink context (line 1)␤»
08:31 TEttinger m: say 1+1
08:31 camelia rakudo-moar bf6371: OUTPUT: «2␤»
08:33 samcv ok. it's coming
08:35 samcv optimized string search :) regex gonna get much faster
08:36 samcv about to bunch moar for git rakudo now
08:38 samcv gonna get some ice cream to celebrate
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08:48 u-ou :D
08:55 szabgab I was looking at http://smoke.perl6.org/report but it seems to be out of date. Is it still functioning?
08:55 yoleaux 1 Apr 2016 13:39Z <[Coke]> szabgab: - Can you please double check https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=123497 against a 2016 R*?
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08:55 samcv ok done. now i will enjoy this ice cream
08:56 szabgab yoleaux: p6doc works on the 2017.01 I have. AFAIK that ticket can be closed
08:57 samcv yoleaux, is a bot. it cannot hear you ;)
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08:59 szabgab samcv: oh just nagging the rare visitor :)
09:00 samcv damn p6doc doesn't work on os x. that's lame
09:00 samcv or maybe it does
09:00 samcv it's been 1 year :)
09:00 samcv ticket is still open tho
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09:03 szabgab Oh I see now I reported it for osx. I am now using Perl 6 inside a Docker image so I don't know if p6doc works on OSX or not.
09:05 samcv can you not install modules or whatever?
09:05 szabgab checking again, apparently I have also installed Rakudo on OSX   p6doc works ther
09:05 szabgab there
09:06 szabgab that ticket can be closed
09:07 samcv cool
09:07 samcv want me to close it or you
09:07 szabgab pls do
09:08 samcv kk
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09:18 szabgab so back to smoke testing: http://smoke.perl6.org/report seems to be stuck in 2015.   http://testers.perl6.org/ seems to report for released verisions of Rakudo
09:19 szabgab Is there a page for smoke testing Rakudo with the spectests?   Is there a page for smoke testing modules with the development version of Rakudo?
09:25 gfldex szabgab: http://testers.perl6.org/
09:26 szabgab gfldex: does that test on the latest development version or only on released versions?
09:27 gfldex don't think so, seams to be Star
09:28 gfldex if module authors setup travis cron jobs, the ecosystem tests against bleeding
09:28 gfldex (very few do)
09:28 samcv .o(should check if i have travis cron jobs)
09:28 samcv gotta take advantage of all that free cpu time
09:28 samcv oh i do actually
09:29 samcv it ran 2 days ago. cool
09:29 samcv https://travis-ci.org/samcv/URL-Find/builds
09:29 gfldex samcv: see 2nd halve of https://gfldex.wordpress.com/2017/01/20/once-a-week/
09:29 samcv haven't updated it since a few months ago but still running tests
09:30 samcv gfldex, uhm is testers.perl6whatever does that go off of travis at all?
09:30 samcv like if we got everybody to setup cron jobs
09:30 szabgab what do you mean travis cron jobs?
09:30 samcv it runs every set amount of time
09:31 samcv and can run against development and release version
09:31 gfldex testers wont but modules.perl6.org does
09:31 samcv yeah
09:31 samcv szabgab, have you seen our travis matrixes
09:31 samcv we have them for multiple os's too
09:31 samcv very neat
09:31 szabgab samcv: I don't think so
09:31 szabgab I found this now: https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/cron-jobs/
09:32 gfldex you can tell travis where to get rakudo from. So you could have a meta package that tests against release
09:32 samcv this is for moarvm https://travis-ci.org/MoarVM/MoarVM
09:32 samcv here's moar's matrix
09:32 samcv has loads of configurations of moarvm and two os's mac and linu
09:32 szabgab I wonder if travis has a API that could be used to tell to run all the test when a new commit arrived to Rakudo
09:32 samcv and hopefully we'll have windows automated soon
09:32 samcv it does
09:32 samcv every time
09:32 gfldex the travis api is rather shitty
09:32 samcv oh, do you mean modules?
09:33 samcv modules probably not easily unless you set it up yourself
09:33 gfldex it does not run on commits in a dep
09:33 samcv nope
09:33 samcv that would be nice. but until then. we have cron
09:36 samcv which part did you want me to read
09:36 samcv i read it all tho
09:38 szabgab samcv: I guess "latest" in the .travis.yml refers to the latest released Rakudo.  Is there a way to add "nightly" or "blead" or some other keyword that would use a Rakudo build that was created from the most recent push to the Rakudo repo?
09:38 samcv yeah. uh
09:38 samcv i think there way
09:38 samcv *was but i forget it
09:38 samcv i thought i remember doing it. but dunno have many repos
09:39 samcv well not that many
09:40 samcv i will try now on my module though
09:41 samcv yeah i think it worked
09:41 samcv https://travis-ci.org/samcv/URL-Find
09:41 samcv it has two different jobs now. release and development
09:43 samcv oh ok. i needed to change it to `nom` not moar-blead. it tries to check out that branch i guess
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10:18 szabgab samcv: so if one adds "nom" to the travis.yml file that will run the tests on the most recently pushed code?
10:20 szabgab hmm the doc here: https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/languages/perl6/ seems to indicate otherwise
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12:18 tbrowder dmaestro: thanks, but
12:19 tbrowder uh, no buts...
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12:37 Geth ¦ doc: 6bd0f98376 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 5 files
12:37 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Dissuade readers from using IO::Spec*
12:37 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6bd0f98376
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13:12 Geth ¦ doc: 7afd9c4279 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
13:12 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Remove unrelated related classes
13:12 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7afd9c4279
13:28 Geth ¦ doc: a43ecb9d3e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
13:28 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Document IO::Path's $.SPEC and $.CWD
13:28 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a43ecb9d3e
13:31 Geth ¦ doc: fadf4e930b | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
13:31 Geth ¦ doc: Fix typo
13:31 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fadf4e930b
13:37 andrzejk_ hello perl6 :)
13:47 masak hi andrzejk_
13:48 andrzejk_ hey
13:48 andrzejk_ masak how is your sunday?
13:56 Geth ¦ doc: e9b6809260 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 4 files
13:56 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Document IO::Path::* subclasses
13:56 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e9b6809260
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14:04 Geth ¦ doc: 9102b51380 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
14:04 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Fix up IO::Path.basename
14:04 Geth ¦ doc:
14:04 Geth ¦ doc: - it doesn't just return filename, since IO::Path can reference
14:04 Geth ¦ doc:     more than just files
14:04 Geth ¦ doc: - Point out semantics with Windows shares
14:04 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9102b51380
14:06 ajr_ Can anyone tell me where and how the Rakudo* installation sets the .../install/share/perl6/site/bin and install/share/bin values in PATH?
14:06 moritz ajr_: which platform are you on?
14:07 ajr_ There's a message at the end of the install process that says "please set them", but it seems to have been done automatically
14:07 ajr_ Linux
14:11 moritz I'm pretty sure it can't
14:11 moritz maybe you have done it previously?
14:11 andrzejk_ moritz how the perl6 is parsing every line till terminate sign ;
14:12 Geth ¦ doc: 5c1d3b6558 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Spec/Unix.pod6
14:12 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Document IO::Spec::Unix.basename
14:12 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5c1d3b6558
14:16 ajr_ Moritz - that's entirely possible, (as the fact that I've forgotten doing it), but I didn't want my update script to be fighting the official process pointlessly.
14:22 Geth ¦ doc: aa293f9a9e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Spec/Unix.pod6
14:22 Geth ¦ doc: Fix typo
14:22 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/aa293f9a9e
14:23 Geth ¦ doc: a1cb80bd02 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Spec/Win32.pod6
14:23 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Document IO::Spec::Win32.basename
14:23 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a1cb80bd02
14:34 moritz andrzejk_: token by token
14:34 andrzejk_ but what terminate parser
14:34 andrzejk_ I mean it is JIT compiler
14:34 andrzejk_ so he parse first line and push to jit
14:35 andrzejk_ it looks like every perl6 guarantee that ends with ; or EOF
14:35 andrzejk_ or it is the line before closing parenthess
14:35 timotimo no, the whole program is parsed before it goes to code-generation
14:35 andrzejk_ timotimo lulsh why?
14:35 andrzejk_ why so?
14:36 andrzejk_ why not a line
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14:36 timotimo well, one reason is we allow you to call subs before you declare them - but if you don't declare them we refuse the parse
14:36 timotimo m: this-sub-doesnt-exist(1)
14:36 camelia rakudo-moar cc209f: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    this-sub-doesnt-exist used at line 1␤␤»
14:36 timotimo m: this-sub-doesnt-exist(1); sub this-sub-doesnt-exist($_) { say "haha, fooled you" }
14:36 camelia rakudo-moar cc209f: OUTPUT: «haha, fooled you␤»
14:37 timotimo you can't run that code if you didn't finish parsing
14:37 andrzejk_ timotimo ok now I get it
14:37 timotimo most things aren't sensibly runnable before you have parsed a whole lot more of the program, either
14:37 timotimo we do compile-time selection of multi candidates, too
14:38 timotimo so even if we're using sub only-works-with-string(1) near the start, how is the compiler supposed to know if there's a multi candidate for Int later in the source?
14:38 andrzejk_ do you mean overloading?
14:39 timotimo multiple dispatch
14:39 andrzejk_ multi is perl6 overloading method equivalent
14:39 timotimo it's similar
14:39 andrzejk_ yeah
14:39 andrzejk_ okay I got it a bit
14:39 andrzejk_ you parse whole file prepare syntax tree and then generate assembler
14:39 timotimo no
14:39 andrzejk_ ?
14:40 timotimo we don't generate assembler
14:40 andrzejk_ oh okay
14:40 andrzejk_ :D
14:40 timotimo we go from code text to QAST, to MAST, to moar bytecode, and then the JIT might turn parts of it into x86_64 machine code
14:41 andrzejk_ timotimo okay
14:41 andrzejk_ that's okay I think
14:41 andrzejk_ :)
14:42 andrzejk_ what about syntax can I ask some questions you?
14:42 timotimo you can certainly try
14:42 andrzejk_ ok
14:43 andrzejk_ as I know all things are certainly objects in perl6
14:43 moritz all things that can go into variables are objects
14:43 andrzejk_ which correspond to 6model
14:44 andrzejk_ 6model is meta things which consist in each object
14:44 timotimo "consist in"?
14:44 andrzejk_ come in
14:45 andrzejk_ timotimo sorry my english is fucked except when I hurry to write smth
14:45 andrzejk_ :P
14:45 andrzejk_ especially
14:45 moritz I'd say 6model is an implementation of the low-level parts of the p6 object system
14:45 andrzejk_ sure
14:46 andrzejk_ so lets say first line "hello world".say
14:46 andrzejk_ so the parser create anonymous variable "hello world"
14:47 andrzejk_ and he knows that characters in quotes correspond to Str
14:47 andrzejk_ and then he call method say on Str
14:47 timotimo no variable involved
14:47 andrzejk_ that how I  understand it
14:47 timotimo have you ever tried perl6 --target=ast -e 'your code here'?
14:47 andrzejk_ wait let me try x)
14:50 andrzejk_ Array?
14:50 timotimo sorry, what?
14:50 moritz m: say Array
14:50 camelia rakudo-moar cc209f: OUTPUT: «(Array)␤»
14:51 timotimo m: say so Array
14:51 camelia rakudo-moar cc209f: OUTPUT: «False␤»
14:51 andrzejk_ I don't undestand it well
14:51 andrzejk_ it is String
14:52 andrzejk_ - QAST::Stmt <sunk final> \"hello\".say
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15:00 andrzejk_ fuck
15:00 andrzejk_ it looks very hard to implement this
15:00 andrzejk_ :D
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15:07 timotimo ... implement what?
15:07 timotimo and what do you mean by "it is String"?
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15:15 andrzejk_ I am trying to implement perl6
15:15 andrzejk_ and just trying to figure out from what to start lexer implementation
15:16 ajr_ andrzejk - are you trying to re-write the compiler?
15:16 andrzejk_ ye exactly
15:16 ajr_ Why?
15:17 andrzejk_ I think I can write a better one
15:17 ajr_ Have you read the original source code?
15:17 andrzejk_ no but there no some functionality which I need
15:17 grondilu andrzejk_: could you write one that targets webassembly?
15:17 andrzejk_ I want to have Perl6 on embedded devices
15:18 andrzejk_ and faster though
15:18 andrzejk_ in any way I am searching of start point
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15:23 ajr_ andrzejk - if you can write a better Perl6 compiler singlehandedly, there's clearly a space on your shelf for a Turing Award
15:24 andrzejk_ ajr_ :D
15:24 andrzejk_ I want to start and maybe someone help me in the future
15:24 ajr_ Studying the existing one would be a good start
15:25 andrzejk_ I don't like read C code :s
15:26 timotimo have you looked at arane?
15:26 andrzejk_ what is arane?
15:26 timotimo a p6 compiler written in cpp
15:26 timotimo incomplete
15:27 andrzejk_ that sounds good
15:27 andrzejk_ x)
15:27 andrzejk_ I will start reading it
15:27 andrzejk_ timotimo thnks for help timotino
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15:30 andrzejk_ timotimo what happend with bizzarecake?
15:31 andrzejk_ is he alive?
15:31 rurban1 joined #perl6
15:31 timotimo i certainly hope he didn't die
15:31 timotimo hasn't been on irc for a long time
15:31 rurban2 joined #perl6
15:32 andrzejk_ timotimo ohh
15:33 timotimo .seen BizarreCake
15:33 yoleaux I saw BizarreCake 30 Aug 2014 14:30Z in #perl6: <BizarreCake> Is an int array implicitly castable to an Int array?
15:34 andrzejk_ timotimo my friend die like a 3 month ago
15:34 andrzejk_ he was programmer
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15:38 timotimo oh shit, that sucks :(
15:40 andrzejk_ yeah
15:40 andrzejk_ that happens to many programmers here
15:40 andrzejk_ i suppose
15:40 andrzejk_ he got contract b2b and his client needs a code urgently but he won't lose money so he program even when he was sick
15:40 andrzejk_ and one day he just die
15:47 andrzejk_ timotimo it looks like he just implement this
15:47 andrzejk_ without any idea how to add Mu object to it etc.
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15:51 timotimo i don't know what b2b means
15:52 andrzejk_ they pay you good money but you have no vacances etc.
15:52 andrzejk_ ne to go
15:52 andrzejk_ for a bit
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15:52 gfldex timotimo: as requested: https://github.com/gfldex/perl6-meta6-bin/commit/964670ff642ff5b8e7391c51ea6ad9087fe3a06b
15:53 gfldex timotimo: it does not know about authors yet and doesn't do anything fancy either
15:57 timotimo fantastic! i'll install that straight-away
15:58 Cabanossi joined #perl6
15:59 timotimo it'd be cool if the repository description or the readme mentioned that the module name is actually META6::Bin
15:59 domidumont joined #perl6
15:59 gfldex timotimo: you may have to --force, i forgot to dump version
16:00 timotimo i didn't have META6::Bin yet
16:01 leont joined #perl6
16:02 gfldex timotimo: hold on, I have a typo
16:02 timotimo META6::bin, though
16:02 timotimo first it's all caps, then it's no caps at all
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16:27 Geth ¦ doc: 28b6283b96 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 4 files
16:27 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Document IO::Spec::*.canonpath
16:27 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/28b6283b96
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16:53 Geth ¦ doc: 50e5565699 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 3 files
16:53 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Document IO::Spec::*.catdir and .catfile
16:53 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/50e5565699
17:19 ajr_ joined #perl6
17:21 Geth ¦ doc: 9dd7399f15 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Spec/Cygwin.pod6
17:21 Geth ¦ doc: Remove IO::Spec::Cygwin.catfile
17:21 Geth ¦ doc:
17:21 Geth ¦ doc: The class doesn't provide it, but merely inherits
17:21 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9dd7399f15
17:24 Geth ¦ doc: dbdc9959ab | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 3 files
17:24 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Document IO::Spec::*.catpath
17:24 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/dbdc9959ab
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18:02 samcv .tell szabgab yes if you put nom in .travis.yml it does devel build of rakudo. Worked for me here https://travis-ci.org/samcv/URL-Find
18:02 yoleaux samcv: I'll pass your message to szabgab.
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19:45 as_ Hi guys. I wonder if the way modules are stored in file system is invention of Rakudo or zef or Perl 6
19:47 jjido joined #perl6
19:48 lizmat Perl 6
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20:06 moritz rakudo, no?
20:08 timotimo what, the compunitrepo stuff isn't perl6?
20:09 moritz the API is, but the file layout isn't, afaict
20:09 titsuki joined #perl6
20:09 moritz I mean, are there are tests for the actual file locations and contents in roast?
20:09 timotimo oh, ok
20:10 timotimo that makes sense
20:10 moritz a different compiler could store a complete distribution or compunitrepo or so in an sqlite db
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20:13 timotimo right
20:13 sjn that sounds kinda weird to me
20:13 timotimo in fact, if it weren.t needed to load NativeCall to bind sqlite, i'd totally dare someone to write that over the course of an evening
20:14 sjn doesn't that mean that one can't switch compiler/VM and continue using the modules that are already installed?
20:17 lizmat moritz: yeah, rakudo, you're right  :-)  somehow I missed the first of 3 options
20:18 timotimo sjn: um, how is the jvm supposed to load .moarvm files?
20:18 timotimo i mean, sure, custom classloader, but do we really want to implement a moarvm in java to make that work?
20:20 timotimo well, different vms can share precomp folders for different formats
20:20 timotimo and nothing prevents a different compiler from implementing the same CUR as rakudo has, maybe even using the code almost 1:1
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20:33 lizmat ok, so I have a patch that will make Set.WHICH 8x faster (for a 50 element Set)
20:34 lizmat it uses nqp::sha1 to create a unique fingerprint of the .WHICH representations of the objects in the Set
20:34 lizmat it lets 1 TODO test pass
20:35 lizmat and it breaks another that specifically checks for a specific .WHICH value
20:35 lizmat (which in my opinion is a faulty test)
20:35 lizmat I figured since nqp::sha1 is good enough for CUR, it should be good enough for set identification
20:38 timotimo do you do some kind of sorting or something to make sure equal sets get the same which?
20:38 lizmat yes, sorting is involved  :-)
20:38 El_Che kkk
20:38 El_Che oops
20:39 El_Che laggy connection
20:41 timotimo sounds like a good idea to me, to use sha1
20:42 leont joined #perl6
20:44 AlexDaniel lizmat: “sha1” and “unique fingerprint” sound a bit weird when put into the same sentence :)
20:44 lizmat AlexDaniel: why ?
20:44 lizmat :-)
20:45 lizmat it you're worried about collisions, maybe we should have nqp::shaX that's better :-)
20:46 AlexDaniel that would make me feel better, I guess…
20:46 timotimo .o( love shaX, la la love shaX~ )
20:46 lizmat we currently use nqp::sha1 for CUR
20:46 lizmat .oO( B52's :-)
20:46 timotimo we can somewhat easily add another sha* algo in there
20:47 timotimo then we just generate sha1 and shaWhatever in CUR and if one file exists, mv it to the other filename
20:47 lizmat timotimo: could we have an nqp::sha that takes a list_s ?
20:47 lizmat so we could bypass the nqp::join step ?
20:47 timotimo i think we can do that, yeah
20:47 lizmat or would that still concat internally anyway ?
20:47 timotimo but i'm really wondering why we even allow Str to be pushed into sha1 at all
20:48 timotimo no, almost all hash algos support pushing arbitrary amounts of data in piecewise and getting the result at the end (or anywhere in-between)
20:48 lizmat cool!
20:48 timotimo suggest a name for it?
20:49 timotimo listsha1?
20:49 timotimo though maybe that could also be how we allow passing Buf and friends in?
20:49 timotimo so ... objsha1 perhaps?
20:49 timotimo it'd internally dispatch based on the REPR of the thing passed in, then
20:50 timotimo (can't make the regular sha1 op do that because its signature says it has to be a string)
20:51 lizmat nqp::sha ?
20:51 timotimo haha, like "sha1 means sha one, sha means sha many"? :)
20:52 lizmat hmmm
20:52 lizmat :-)
20:52 lizmat not how I meant it, but yeah  :-)
20:52 timotimo do we want to give that a parameter to choose hash type, too?
20:52 timotimo so we don't have to add a new opcode every time we decide to add another hash function?
20:57 samcv ok gonna get back to work on trying to make perl 6 appimages
21:02 timotimo i have a sha256 here, but no sha512 to go with it
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21:02 timotimo https://github.com/mycelium-com/entropy - this project has a public domain sha256 and sha512 in C
21:02 timotimo maybe i should grab those
21:05 samcv nice
21:07 timotimo / Total length of the entire message must be provided, as it will be appended
21:07 timotimo / at the end according to the specification.
21:07 timotimo ???
21:08 timotimo oh, is the length of the message appended to the message before it gets hashed?
21:09 timotimo why did i claim you could feed in arbitrary amounts of data? it has to be in terms of the hashes block size for many (including 256 and 512 versions of sha2)
21:10 timotimo eeehhh this code also uses an endiannes swapping that they implemented like this: https://github.com/mycelium-com/entropy/blob/master/lib/endian.h
21:10 timotimo and i have no idea if that works with all our compilers?
21:11 timotimo we surely don't want to have atmel support in there, how is that supposed to compile moarvm anyway :)
21:13 timotimo i don't really feel like chasing this around right now :|
21:26 lizmat timotimo: sorry, I was distracted
21:27 lizmat all ideas sound nice, also the not chasing around right now part
21:29 timotimo hah :)
21:30 samcv timotimo, do you know if moar bytecode will get messed up if the alignment of it changes
21:30 samcv if i replace some directory names inside it
21:32 samcv oh looks like it might be...
21:32 samcv ok so with moar i can just set LD_LIBRARY_PATH=./install/lib and not worry too much
21:32 samcv but nqp's /share/nqp files are an issue
21:33 timotimo oh btw INSTALL.txt still refers to panda
21:34 samcv nice
21:34 timotimo and maybe we need to change more stuff in there?
21:34 samcv probably
21:34 samcv rakudostar mentions zef
21:34 samcv in readme at least
21:35 timotimo i'm not sure, but i'd assume changing the length of some strings in the string heap will make things terribly confused
21:35 timotimo we do store the offsets of sections near the beginning
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21:36 samcv yeah
21:36 samcv it got angry
21:36 samcv gonna go for round 2
21:36 samcv gonna --prefix="/r/us" and then gonna use sed to replace that to ./usr
21:36 samcv and hope that works
21:37 samcv might not for moar. but hopefully for nqp stuff it will
21:38 timotimo well, you see ... strings are stored with their length in front in the string heap
21:39 samcv yeah that is smart
21:39 timotimo if you adjust the sizes of sections, you can rewrite strings in the heap
21:39 timotimo sizes/offsets/samethingreally
21:39 samcv but replacing /r/us with ./usr is much less bad than ./././././././././././. +10 more times
21:39 samcv hopefully will reduce our shame.
21:40 samcv i am looking at some travis build files for making appimages
21:40 samcv for different projects and things
21:40 samcv also timotimo are there uh. ENV vars i can change to make nqp work in another directory like i can for moar
21:40 samcv with LD_LIBRARY_PATH
21:41 samcv the /share/nqp/blahhhhh.moarvm files
21:41 timotimo uuuuhh
21:42 samcv also idk if there's a way we could get *real* moveable support
21:42 samcv by actually not putting the full path in places
21:42 samcv for nqp building and such
21:42 timotimo well, the paths have to go somewhere. maybe as flags in our launcher shell scripts :\
21:42 samcv well yeh they go somewhere
21:42 samcv "./usr" or whatever
21:43 timotimo did you see the ModuleLoader.nqp inside src/vm/moar?
21:43 samcv yea
21:44 timotimo certainly if we have a dynamic var that we set from the very main function after the commandline parser gave it to us ... that could perhaps help?
21:44 timotimo anyway, how do other langs make their binaries movable? like python?
21:44 samcv probably like that
21:44 samcv relative directories
21:45 samcv linux why you do this :(
21:45 samcv make it so hard
21:48 timotimo wait, does it, though?
21:48 samcv uh
21:48 samcv not that much i guess you have preload
21:48 timotimo if i mv my `which python` somewhere else it'll b0rk?
21:48 samcv not really linux's fault
21:48 samcv but libraries at least
21:48 samcv idk
21:56 samcv wow
21:56 samcv i did it
21:56 samcv wooo
21:56 samcv it's... working
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21:59 timotimo cool!
21:59 timotimo you're using sed and stuff? to replace paths and everything?
22:00 samcv yeah.
22:00 samcv it's not loading linenoise though
22:00 samcv can't find the .so file
22:00 samcv but otherwise works
22:00 timotimo ah
22:00 samcv gonna get a bit more agressive tho
22:01 samcv i've been doing it in stages
22:01 timotimo well, that's in perl6-land where we have much more freedom
22:01 timotimo you know what really, really annoys me?
22:01 samcv .moarvm files all can be replaced with ./usr
22:01 samcv maybe
22:01 timotimo you can't load the contents of a so file. it has to be a file on disk
22:01 samcv oppression!
22:01 samcv hmm. uh
22:01 timotimo i don't want to write my own dynamic linker?!?!
22:01 samcv make a fake disk
22:01 timotimo what, like with fuse? :)
22:02 samcv ok
22:02 samcv now linenoise works
22:02 samcv wooooo
22:02 samcv ok now to try making an appimage with this
22:13 samcv timotimo, is there a command line argument for perl 6 to change paths upon launching?
22:16 samcv m: say $*CWD
22:16 camelia rakudo-moar 6c9f31: OUTPUT: «"/home/camelia".IO␤»
22:16 MasterDuke samcv, timotimo: can't stick around to chat about it, but is what you've been talking about (relocating rakudo) the same thing mst was working on?
22:17 samcv i get "/r".IO
22:17 samcv weird
22:17 samcv oh
22:17 samcv i am in /r
22:17 samcv durp
22:17 samcv thought it was \r for a sec
22:17 samcv no clue
22:19 timotimo MasterDuke: i think mst was working on things mostly in the makefile
22:19 timotimo we're talking about taking an already-compiled rakudo and making it movable to anywhere in the filesystem
22:20 timotimo samcv: it'd be fantastic if we could get something that also works on windows, so that the next rakudo star msi could get a path selector for installation
22:20 samcv well you have to compile it in a specific directory
22:20 samcv well.
22:20 samcv ./say /u/sr -> ./usr
22:20 samcv otherwise theings get weird with multiple levels of ././././
22:20 samcv as i experienced
22:20 samcv some things don't support it
22:21 samcv or something. dunno. it didn't work. and was ugly
22:21 samcv nice. ok i have a script automated to make the install relocatable
22:21 samcv now to make appimage tho
22:24 gfldex timotimo: it would be nice if you could test meta6 --pull-request. My tests are rather synthetic. (see https://github.com/gfldex/perl6-meta6-bin#pull-request-options)
22:26 samcv modules work too timotimo
22:28 timotimo cool
22:28 timotimo gfldex: not before bed, i think. but cool thing to have !
22:29 timotimo it'd probably be cool to have a link to https://github.com/settings/tokens from the readme
22:34 El_Che lizmat: the green leaf stickers you haveat the booth are mongodb
22:36 gfldex timotimo: the github api can create tokens. I may add meta6 --create-github-token tomorrow.
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23:02 u-ou is it ok to just say for ITERABLE -> $_ { ... }?
23:03 AlexDaniel u-ou: well, if you're writing an arrow, why not give it a useful name then?
23:03 u-ou oh, right. you don't need to -_-
23:04 u-ou actually wait. I was thinking of it with whenever
23:04 AlexDaniel u-ou: but you can write it like that, no problem
23:04 AlexDaniel whenever?
23:04 u-ou yeah
23:04 AlexDaniel like, with supplies?
23:04 u-ou like whenever $whatever.Supply -> $_
23:04 AlexDaniel oh
23:05 AlexDaniel u-ou: a block is a block, should work just fine
23:05 u-ou ok
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23:10 samcv ok well i made a working perl 6 that doesn't use appimage. but i think i need to change the paths for appimage to work
23:10 samcv i think it wants to "be" in /usr but the binaries and other files to think that they are in ./
23:10 samcv so gonna install in /m and then sed it to ./
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23:36 samcv krita has appimages and i hear they're popular
23:36 timotimo krita is great in general
23:37 samcv yeah
23:38 samcv people are lazy. and if they can run it by just downoalding one file. that would be neat
23:39 samcv dunno if installing new modules will work. but. should be great to play around with it for sure
23:39 samcv since you have the star modules
23:39 timotimo i'd assume there's a mechanism to store stuff on the user's system
23:39 samcv uhm
23:39 samcv it's just a program
23:39 samcv i dunno
23:40 samcv it colud write to ~/.config if it were like krita or something
23:40 timotimo i mean with appimages
23:40 samcv inside the appimage?
23:40 samcv maybe not
23:40 timotimo nah
23:40 samcv or could just have them downoald a .tar.gz
23:41 samcv and put it wherever they want. and as long as they don't install more modules
23:41 samcv everyhing should work if moved. but if they make a module it'll probably lock it into that directory
23:41 samcv maybe. idk.
23:42 samcv i guess i'll find out
23:44 timotimo i mean we'd do module installation like krita does image saving
23:44 timotimo you wouldn't want to use krita if it can't save away images you've made, right?
23:44 samcv yeah i mean
23:44 samcv you can write files where you want
23:44 samcv it's just a program
23:45 timotimo well, it's run in its own little FS, no?
23:45 samcv but can't write to its own folders maybe except in memory
23:45 samcv yeah
23:45 samcv squashfs
23:45 timotimo it's not chrooted?
23:45 samcv uh
23:45 timotimo like, how does it give you a /usr?
23:45 timotimo oh wait, squashfs, is that like an overlay over the normal FS?
23:45 samcv i do not know
23:46 timotimo i mean there's #appimage right here on freenode, we could probably ask ... or maybe i'll find out in the github wiki or something
23:49 timotimo ugexe: i still have your Installation2.pm6 gist open :D
23:50 timotimo hm. if i make an appimage out of, like, bash or fish ...
23:50 timotimo then i could just explore what the inside of an appimage looks like
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