Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-04-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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07:19 grondilu .seen pmurias
07:19 yoleaux I saw pmurias 10 Apr 2017 14:55Z in #perl6: <pmurias> so if it fails a roast test it's most likely because of a bug rather then some minor unimplemented feature
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07:34 samcv guys is it a bad idea or not to create an AppImage with ALL the perl 6 modules
07:35 samcv well. as many as pass building
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07:35 samcv i think that might be fun
07:35 pmurias grondilu: hi
07:38 moritz samcv: as long as it's not the only option, go for it!
07:39 samcv or could make zef availible and have it install to like ~/.perl6 or something
07:39 samcv since it looks there anyway
07:40 samcv make a rakudo moar-blead with everything in it. or whatever
07:41 samcv and also would test the modules and give a report on it. though some of them may fail because of the appimage and it not starting out in ./
07:41 samcv well. but i can install them before making the appimage. so that shouldn't be too hard.
07:41 samcv might still have the issue they have to recompile when first run. and they may or may not be cached after that. still need to investigate full
07:45 samcv just added cron to it
07:45 samcv but yeah the main real problem is getting it to change path before doing anything. so the relative paths work normally
07:46 samcv does anybody have input on what command line option could be added to do that? what it wuold be?
07:47 moritz --cwd=path
07:47 moritz or --workingdir=path
07:47 moritz or something like that
07:47 samcv yeah that would be great
07:48 moritz or --chdir=path
07:48 samcv good suggestions
07:48 samcv i tried adding a module that does it. but with how the appimage is relative, it totally breaks things to preload modules
07:49 samcv they can be loaded fine in scripts but not *before* because the precompilation and stuff triggers a dependency cycle (even if it's an empty file you're preloading)
07:54 samcv argh. precomps have nonrelative paths in them
07:54 samcv frustrating. so can't put them back in because then hashes are wrong
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07:55 samcv wonder if i can just rename them based on the checksum?
07:55 samcv after i edit them
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08:12 samcv also i think we should have Readline not Linenoise for Rakudo *
08:12 samcv since Linenoise does not support Unicode properly. it's UTF-8 naive
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08:36 u-ou is there a way to tailcall in perl6 like 5's goto &foo
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08:53 u-ou nvm, im off to bed ;p
08:53 u-ou night
08:53 u-ou night
08:53 u-ou oops
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09:05 samcv night u-ou
09:06 samcv u-ou, this is what the documentation says https://docs.perl6.org/language/5to6-perlfunc#goto
09:08 samcv i would read here https://design.perl6.org/S04.html#The_goto_statement
09:10 samcv looks like next last and redo can be called on Label 's
09:10 samcv and Label is a type
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09:26 Geth ¦ ecosystem: a798b27b49 | (Alexey Melezhik)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
09:26 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Install Rakudo as system package
09:26 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
09:26 Geth ¦ ecosystem: https://github.com/melezhik/perl6-sparrowdo-rakudo - This is simple installer of Rakudo Perl6.
09:26 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/a798b27b49
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10:35 fatguy how do i import class / role into my main perl file ? my class file is Class/Example.pm, i specified 'unit module Example' and use 'use Class:Example' on main file but when i run it, it return  'undeclared name'
10:38 geekosaur you needed "unit module Class::Example;" and probably "use lib '.'"
10:39 geekosaur or, "use lib 'Class'"
10:39 Luna521 'Google haskell
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13:48 moritz timotimo: fwiw perl6-all-modules is now up-to-date
13:52 timotimo thanks!
13:52 masak moritz++
13:52 timotimo moritz++
13:53 timotimo so it turns out that we never precompile nfas for grammars that are written in perl6 code. only grammars in nqp code get that benefit, like the Perl6::Grammar itself
13:53 masak huh
13:54 masak potential big speedup?
13:58 timotimo startup improvements could be had
13:58 timotimo so, this is confusing me right now:
13:59 timotimo i see that in the bootstrap a Regex gets @!caps, $!nfa, @!alt_nfas set as attributes, and SET_CAPS, SET_NFA, SET_ALT_NFA, and such set as methods
14:00 timotimo ah, it was just one of the <anon> in there
14:01 timotimo okay, let's see ...
14:02 timotimo haha
14:02 timotimo could it be ...
14:02 timotimo m)
14:02 timotimo nqp has the method ALT_NFAS that it calls to get at the nfas
14:02 timotimo rakudo calls it ALT_NFA
14:04 timotimo oh, not quite
14:04 timotimo that's supposed to be a different method
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14:05 timotimo why ALT_NFA is calling atkey on an attribute that's supposedly a List ... nobody will ever know?
14:08 timotimo yeah, we're totally storing a hash inside an attribute that's defined to be List
14:11 timotimo it's iterating over the result of ALT_NFAS into a variable named $name, but it's actually expected to be a pair ... who thought of all this :D
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14:25 timotimo cool, i think i've got it
14:30 timotimo and there's the commit
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17:39 alphah how can I merge these two hashes:
17:39 alphah %mainhash: {subhash1 => {key1 => True, key2 => value2}, subhash2 => {key3 => value3, key4 => True}}
17:39 alphah %otherhash:  {subhash1 => {key1 => True, key2 => othervalue2}, subhash2 => {key5 => value5, key6 => True}}
17:39 alphah sotha %mainhash becomes {subhash1 => {key1 => True, key2 => othervalue2}, subhash2 => {key3 => value3, key4 => True, key5 => value5, key6 => True}}
17:41 alphah merge keys of %otherhash to %mainhash, if duplicate keys , then overwrite %mainhash and use the vlaues from %otherhash
17:44 MasterDuke m: my %a = (a => 1, b => 2); my %b = (b => 3, c => 4); %a ,= %b; dd %a
17:44 camelia rakudo-moar 064b58: OUTPUT: «Hash %a = {:a(1), :b(3), :c(4)}␤»
17:45 MasterDuke that works for a single level of hashes, haven't tried with multi-leveled hashes
17:46 alphah yes, doesn't work for multi level hashes
17:49 TimToady m: my %a = :1a, :2b, :3c; my %b = :42b; %a «=» %b; say %a
17:49 camelia rakudo-moar 064b58: OUTPUT: «{a => 1, b => 42, c => 3}␤»
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17:51 TimToady that might recurse
17:52 TimToady but it's probably gonna screw up your top level
17:52 TimToady sometimes you just gotta write a map :)
17:53 alphah hmm
17:53 TimToady at one point we had a .tree command that could remap differently on different levels, dunno if we still do
17:55 jnthn m: my %mainhash := {subhash1 => {key1 => True, key2 => 'value2'},subhash2 => {key3 => 'value3', key4 => True}}; my %otherhash := {subhash1 => {key1 => True, key2 => 'othervalue2'}, subhash2 => {key5 => 'value5', key6 => True}}; for %otherhash { %mainhash{.key} = hash %mainhash{.key}, .value }; say %mainhash # shortest I figured so far
17:55 camelia rakudo-moar 064b58: OUTPUT: «{subhash1 => {key1 True␤key2       value2 => {key1 => True, key2 => othervalue2}}, subhash2 => {key3       value3␤key4     True => {key5 => value5, key6 => True}}}␤»
17:56 jnthn Uh, not sure it's right though :)
17:57 jnthn m: my %mainhash := {subhash1 => {key1 => True, key2 => 'value2'},subhash2 => {key3 => 'value3', key4 => True}}; my %otherhash := {subhash1 => {key1 => True, key2 => 'othervalue2'}, subhash2 => {key5 => 'value5', key6 => True}}; for %otherhash { %mainhash{.key} = hash %mainhash{.key}<>, .value<> }; say %mainhash # shortest I figured so far
17:57 camelia rakudo-moar 064b58: OUTPUT: «{subhash1 => {key1 => True, key2 => othervalue2}, subhash2 => {key3 => value3, key4 => True, key5 => value5, key6 => True}}␤»
17:57 TimToady maybe ««=»=» or some such
17:57 jnthn that looks more like it
17:57 jnthn Dinner :)
17:58 alphah trying to understand what you guys did :)
18:04 alphah jnth: yeah it worked :)
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18:05 alphah TimToady: reading about ««=»=» I'll see if I can make it work, looks shorter
18:05 alphah Thanks guys
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18:17 TreyHarris TimToady: I thought there was a categorize variant for this.... hrm
18:19 Geth ¦ doc: 56b50fe109 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Handle.pod6
18:19 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Document IO::Handle.slurp
18:19 Geth ¦ doc:
18:19 Geth ¦ doc: - Rakudo impl: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f1b4af7af4
18:19 Geth ¦ doc: - Tests: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7e4a2ae34b
18:19 Geth ¦ doc: - Also add deprecation notice to .slurp-rest
18:19 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/56b50fe109
18:20 TreyHarris Can anybody point me at a P6 port of a perlxs-dependent module? I just want to crib off how it was done, I can figure out my own way but there are probably already conventions I can follow
18:21 TreyHarris (A full port, I mean, not a p6-to-p5 bridge)
18:21 mst I'm not sure there exactly are such things, p6 seems to go straight to FFI
18:21 mst so it's more like a perl5 module using http://p3rl.org/FFI::Platypus
18:22 mst jnthn: suggestions for a good example of 'is native' ?
18:23 TreyHarris mst: that's what I was going to do when I said "I can figure out my own way"-- just translate the .t files into Perl 6 and rewrite the XS into "is native" calls. Assuming that the P5 API is equivalent to the best P6 API, which it may not be.
18:26 TreyHarris .subst(/\.t\/, ".t and .pm")
18:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: b0036ac344 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
18:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Use META6.json for MARTIMM/pod-render
18:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/b0036ac344
18:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 229fdc2aac | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
18:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Use META6.json for XML.pm6
18:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/229fdc2aac
18:29 jnthn Depends what kind of library it is. If it's some C code that you want to compile on install and call, see Digest::SHA1::Native. If it's to some installed library (and maybe include a Win32 binary install option) then there's loads of examples; Acrhive::LibArchive::Raw is probably a nice mix of non-tiny but isolated.
18:30 jnthn And if it's some kind of non-blocking library and you want an example of how to front it with Promise/Supply, SSH::LibSSH is probably the best example so far
18:30 TreyHarris I'm specifically curious if anyone has done it in a case where different OS variants are smooshed together via XS into the same Perl 5. Like Proc::ProcessTable.
18:31 TreyHarris $*OS and $*SYS, which I remember from the Apocalypses, don't seem to exist anymore, so I don't even see how to switch on it
18:31 jnthn It's $*DISTRO and $*KERNEL nowadays
18:32 jnthn So far as native calls go, we don't resolve them until the first call
18:32 TreyHarris jnthn: and regex matching against it at compiletime (to switch on <linux bsd etc>) is allowable?
18:33 jnthn I think they're objects rather than strings so you may be able to exact match
18:33 jnthn m: say $*KERNEL
18:33 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «linux (4.4.57.18.3.default)␤»
18:33 jnthn m: say $*KERNEL.^methods
18:33 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «(BUILD name version release hardware arch bits signals signal Str gist auth signature desc)␤»
18:33 jnthn m: say $*KERNEL.name
18:33 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «linux␤»
18:34 TreyHarris m: say $*KERNEL.^methods
18:34 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «(BUILD name version release hardware arch bits signals signal Str gist auth signature desc)␤»
18:34 TreyHarris ah, cool
18:34 TreyHarris m: say $*KERNEL.name
18:34 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «linux␤»
18:34 TreyHarris that may be sufficient.
18:37 TreyHarris -Should I define such native subs in a phaser if I'm going to do that kind of thing? Or since it's not resolved until first call can I just do method dispatch on something I get out of $*KERNEL and assume the invalid native calls will never be reached?
18:38 TreyHarris i.e., method exposedthing (not native) uses $*KERNEL to call method hiddenthing-linux or method hiddenthing-bsd, etc.?
18:39 TreyHarris or can I even subsignature off of $*KERNEL itself and use a multi?
18:39 jnthn Personally I'd probably rely on it not being resolved until first call and just dispatch to the correct one
18:39 TreyHarris (Sorry, I know I _can_. I just don't know if I should.)
18:40 jnthn Unless there were a load of calls and I wanted to break them out into separate modules by OS or something
18:40 jnthn Not sure if I'd where-cause it off $*KERNEL
18:40 jnthn Those aren't...entirely optimal :)
18:41 jnthn Another option would be to have a role declaring the "interface" and then write a class doing it per OS or whatever
18:42 jnthn And then something like constant TheThingy is export = do given $*KERNEL { when 'linux' { TheLinuxImpl } ... }
18:42 jnthn Then the implementation is selected at compile time and you don't have repeated runtime checks, and export a consistent symbol name to userspace
18:43 jnthn uh, s/userspace/the user of your module/ :)
18:43 jnthn The interface role is optional of course, it just gives people a portable type they can talk about
18:45 jnthn shopping, bbl
18:47 TreyHarris jnthn: yeah, makes sense. The compiler doesn't even let you write a where clause for a parameterless signature, and taking advantage of it letting you write something like "multi foo($a where { $*KERNEL.name ~~ 'linux'}) { ... }" when you do have a parameter seems fugly as hell
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18:49 TreyHarris jnthn: I like the "constant TheThingy is export = do given $*KERNEL" a lot. It answers a lot of cases where I felt frustrated that I couldn't declare the same name twice globally and disambiguate between them lexically
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18:51 TreyHarris why I was complaining to geekosaur yesterday that use lack's Haskell's "import Long.Thing as T" and "import Prelude hiding (coreThing); import Elsewhere (coreThing)"
18:51 TreyHarris *C<use> lacks Haskell's...
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18:56 TreyHarris That said, does that mean we've entirely given up on the idea of answering the diamond dependency problem where you depend on A and B where A depends on C version 1 and B depends on C version 2?
18:57 TreyHarris Because I know that was a design goal
19:00 geekosaur not so much given up, as not having tackled it yet and probably not going to happen for v6.d either
19:00 geekosaur it's a Hard Problem
19:01 TreyHarris geekosaur: Oh, I know, and you know I know :-)
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19:20 skids TreyHarris: I had a relatively efficient runtime backend chooser in the Sum:: module (lib/Sum/Recourse.pm), but it is currently bitrotten.  Allowed the module to roll with it if someone installed/uninstalled a native library and fallback to a different one or pure Perl6.
19:23 grondilu m: say .fmt("%f") give [*] 1..361;
19:23 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say .fmt("%f")7⏏5 give [*] 1..361;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        state…»
19:23 grondilu m: say .fmt("%f") given [*] 1..361;
19:23 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «Inf␤»
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19:23 grondilu how can I get a scientific notation without going through floating points?
19:24 grondilu (also, can I?)
19:24 TreyHarris skids: yes! I vaguely remembered that, and I went looking for it
19:24 TreyHarris skids: guess it's best I didn't find it since it would have confused me
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19:28 skids m: .fmt("%f").say given [*] 1..361;
19:28 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «Inf␤»
19:28 skids oh didn;t notice the reduce.
19:29 * skids mind is dulled from logging into 300 switches today.
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19:44 skids m: say (45/678939).base(10,50); # grondilu -- just move the '.' and count?
19:44 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «0.00006627988670558032459469849279537631510341871656␤»
19:47 TreyHarris m: say .log10 given [*] 1..361;
19:47 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «Inf␤»
19:47 TreyHarris ouch
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20:09 skids m: say $_.can("log10")[0]>>.package given [*] 1..361;
20:09 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «((Numeric))␤»
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20:11 Zoffix m: printf '%.5fe%d', $_/10**(.chars-1), .chars-1 with [*] 1..361
20:11 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «1.43792e768»
20:12 Zoffix Negative numbers sold separately
20:12 Zoffix Also, the 10** explodes at some largish point.
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20:14 skids m: say $_.can("log")>>.package given [*] 1..361; #hehe
20:14 camelia rakudo-moar f1b4af: OUTPUT: «((Real) (Cool))␤»
20:21 Geth ¦ ecosystem: blippy++ created pull request #315: Add NCurses6 to ecosystem
20:21 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/315
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20:24 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 1634b1f5ea | blippy++ (committed by Zoffix Znet) | META.list
20:24 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Add NCurses6 to ecosystem (#315)
20:24 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
20:24 Geth ¦ ecosystem: See https://github.com/blippy/perl6-ncurses6
20:24 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/1634b1f5ea
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21:37 Geth ¦ ecosystem: caecb13b8e | (Jonathan Worthington)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
21:37 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Add IO::Socket::Async::SSL
21:37 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
21:37 Geth ¦ ecosystem: See https://github.com/jnthn/p6-io-socket-async-ssl for further information.
21:37 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/caecb13b8e
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21:55 leont That sounds like a useful module!
21:57 jnthn Took a bit of figuring how to do :)
21:57 jnthn Though writing async bindings to C libs is kinda a fun thing to be doing :)
22:03 * [Coke] gets a new macbook pro for work, and wonders how on earth liz is coping with the lack of an escape key.
22:04 samcv it has no escappe key!
22:04 mcmillhj joined #perl6
22:07 [Coke] it has the dynamic bar at the top, which usually has an escape "key" in it.
22:07 [Coke] I am tempted to remap ` to be ESC instead.
22:08 leont Someone is hating users of proper editors? ;-)
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22:16 AlexDaniel [Coke]: what about caps lock? :)
22:16 mst [Coke]: Ctrl-[ is your friend
22:18 [Coke] caps lock is control for me.
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22:19 lucs [Coke]: Same for me, and Ctrl-[ for ESC works fine.
22:21 mcmillhj joined #perl6
22:21 samcv when do we just get neural implants to control keyboards with our minds though
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22:27 AlexDaniel samcv: these are called hands :)
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23:25 Geth ¦ doc: 017acd4e18 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
23:25 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Improve docs for IO::Path.slurp
23:25 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/017acd4e18
23:27 mcmillhj joined #perl6
23:38 Geth ¦ doc: 0f49bb548c | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO.pod6
23:38 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] List Rakudo-supported encodings in open()
23:38 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0f49bb548c
23:39 Cabanossi joined #perl6
23:41 Geth ¦ doc: e60da5cc8d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO.pod6
23:41 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] List utf-* alias examples too since they're common
23:41 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e60da5cc8d
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23:44 Geth ¦ doc: f83f78cbec | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO.pod6
23:44 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Use idiomatic Perl 6 in example
23:44 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f83f78cbec

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