Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-04-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 timotimo the code was trying to be careful here, but didn't have in mind one important thing
00:00 timotimo vsnprintf will only write up to n bytes, and it returns how many bytes it has written ... except!
00:01 timotimo except when it *would have* written more than n bytes
00:01 timotimo in which case it returns *that* number, i.e. a number bigger than n
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00:24 timotimo bedtime! o/
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00:32 sammers m: Str.^add_method('こんにちは', method () {"{self}ちゃん、こんにちは。"}); "Camelia".こんにちは.say;
00:32 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «Cameliaちゃん、こんにちは。␤»
00:33 sammers so this will work: "Camelia"\n.こんにちは\n.say
00:34 sammers even with non alpha method names
00:35 AlexDaniel sammers: https://docs.perl6.org/language/unicode_texas#Alphabetic_Characters
00:35 AlexDaniel say ‘こんにちは’.uniprops
00:35 evalable6 AlexDaniel, rakudo-moar fbc6697da: OUTPUT: «(Lo Lo Lo Lo Lo)»
00:36 sammers ah
00:36 sammers ok, that is cool
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01:07 azawawi hi #perl6 :)
01:07 sammers ola
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01:09 azawawi :)
01:10 * azawawi begins removing the dust off his old perl 6 modules
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01:48 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:22 labster m: say Ⅹ×ⅩxⅩ
02:22 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «100100100100100100100100100100␤»
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02:50 TEttinger labster: wat
02:50 TEttinger m: say Ⅹ
02:50 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «10␤»
02:51 TEttinger m: say x
02:51 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    x used at line 1␤␤»
02:51 TEttinger so confused
02:57 geraud TEttinger: just guessing, but X (roman numeral) is changed to 10. And depending on the font you use, there are 2 kinds of 'x', the first one looks weird so I would assume it's some unicode character for multiplication, and the second one is for string duplication.
02:58 TEttinger oh, it's duplicating "100" ten times
02:59 geekosaur 3 roman-numeral-Ⅹ-s, one multiplication symbol ×, one string replication ordinary x)
03:00 geekosaur where'd that ) come from...
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03:33 nimajneb How would I play sounds through its frequency in hz
03:34 nimajneb w/ perl6 or anything that I can program
03:35 sammers nimajneb, have to taken a look at any of these? http://modules.perl6.org/t/AUDIO
03:36 nimajneb Yeah, but do any of those allow for outputting via frequency
03:36 nimajneb Not sure about how I would accomplish that
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03:37 nimajneb I'd be fine with using the portaudio module
03:37 nimajneb still not sure about how I would accomplish this though
03:43 BenGoldberg Any sound player is going to require, not a frequency, but some data in a valid sound format.  So, your first step is to say, "How do I create a sound file whose content is nothing more than a tone at X frequency and Y volume for Z duration."
03:43 BenGoldberg Then, only after you've created the data, do you worry about playing it.
03:49 nimajneb Is somehow generating .wmv files fairly simple?
03:49 nimajneb would .au be simpler?
03:54 BenGoldberg Honestly, I'm not sure.
04:16 azawawi http://pasteboard.co/4359L3M3R.png # Hello world using ncurses color https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/blob/master/examples/03-colors.pl6 :)
04:40 azawawi http://pasteboard.co/43xgAJ0hR.png # Move windows using NCurses https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/blob/master/examples/04-move-windows.pl6 :)
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04:52 sammers azawawi, I have a sudden urge to play solitaire
04:53 TimToady I'm afraid you'll have to play it by yourself...
04:54 sammers ha
04:54 azawawi :)
04:54 samcv ah. i think i have a pdf not in unicode maybe. cause i copy the letters. and. it copies something different
04:54 samcv or maybe something else weird idk
04:54 samcv oh. unless... they're using a non unicode font
04:59 samcv latin letters are normal but the special characters here all copy as different other characters
05:00 sammers is there any way to utilize hyper operators / similar when using ==> ?
05:02 samcv i think they must be using some non-unicode font because some things copy as multiple characters, so it's like they used ligature hacks with this font
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05:12 samcv not sure sammers
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05:33 moritz feed operators are meant to provide some level of parallelity, they just don't yet
05:34 moritz the idea is that they are like pipes, running separate threads for each block that's connected by feeds/pipes
05:36 sammers moritz, is the idea that the parallelity will auto-apply when applicable or will there be a way to influence the behavior?
05:37 sammers like, ==> should imply >>. whenever it is possible?
05:37 moritz sammers: I don't know yet
05:37 sammers ok, just curious
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07:06 samcv perl 6 is a very ____ project. i'm trying to think of the word i'm looking for. which means optimistic, and an effort which has high breadth and larger than normal scope
07:07 samcv but my mind is not thinking of the word. can anybody help
07:07 labster ambitious?  grippy?
07:07 samcv ambitous
07:08 * labster is just pulling words from the opening of the Colbert Report.
07:09 samcv thank you
07:10 samcv i hate when i know exactly the word i mean but i can't think of it
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07:13 labster As a creative writer, I feel this pain.
07:14 samcv feels like your brain is broken
07:14 samcv *why* won't it thinkkkk of the word i already know i know!
07:19 RabidGravy I have that problem with whole concepts and categories of ideas
07:20 samcv please tell me how to fix this
07:22 RabidGravy I usually trick my brain by thinking about something completely different
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07:22 samcv need an industrial strength therarus of words
07:22 samcv a word web or something
07:23 samcv with deep learning we can find words that are created when you add two words together. it's very interesting
07:25 samcv also
07:25 samcv m: "ā".NFD.say
07:25 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «NFD:0x<0061 0304>␤»
07:25 samcv when is this gonna be a thing
07:25 samcv 0x<0061 0304> to make an array of hex digits or something
07:25 samcv that would be neat
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07:46 moritz m: say Blob[uint16].new: <0061 0304>
07:46 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «Blob[uint16]:0x<3d 130>␤»
07:47 TEttinger samcv: perl 6 is a ____ project <-- quixotic, grandiose, over-achieving, moon shot of a, mind-blowing, unicodatious
07:47 TEttinger napoleonic
07:47 samcv well. they did go to the moon ;) so we have a chance
07:48 TEttinger and napoleon did conquer most of europe
07:48 TEttinger and don quixote did joust windmills
07:48 samcv yes
07:49 TEttinger and I liek vocabularistery
07:49 samcv that's not a work but ok :-)
07:49 TEttinger neither is :-) and neither is the american flag emoji
07:50 TEttinger but you can't deny that they have meanings!
07:50 samcv they do have meanings
07:50 TEttinger I wonder when you can start assigning unicode gender identifiers to flags
07:50 samcv what...
07:50 samcv i mean
07:50 TEttinger female north korea
07:50 samcv unlikely
07:50 geekosaur expansive, audacious
07:51 TEttinger the audacity of wat
07:52 TEttinger (the main practical use of gendered flags would be representations of officials from that country, using the gendered modifier and the flag modifier on a person emoji)
07:52 TEttinger such as female + germany + leader for merkl
07:52 TEttinger or however it's spelled
07:52 samcv that's very specific
07:52 TEttinger unicode is very specific
07:53 samcv i don't think that is used in practice though.
07:53 samcv there is not a huge desire for this to be implemented
07:53 TEttinger that could be said for many parts of unicode!
07:53 samcv like which
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07:54 TEttinger the counterexample is actual stuff that needs special PUA stuff to work and is non-standard because of Unicode consortium decisions, like klingon having books written in it that cannot be transcribed to unicode
07:55 TEttinger similarly with tengwar, an elven script from LotR
07:55 samcv oh i thought you were going to argue the oppostie that there's things in unicode that have no purpose
07:55 TEttinger oh there totally are
07:55 samcv well.
07:55 samcv maybe when they have put in all the languages they can add klingon
07:56 TEttinger the phaistos disk they don't know if it's a language or not, same with linear a and b
07:56 samcv there are argubly more books written in ancient languages than klingon
07:56 TEttinger there are no books written in linear b
07:56 samcv idk what that is
07:57 TEttinger it's a unicode block
07:57 samcv i don't think it's an ancient language though
07:57 TEttinger it's an ancient <unclear if language or symbolic system>
07:57 samcv not true
07:57 samcv idk.
07:57 samcv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_B_Syllabary
07:57 TEttinger hm?
07:57 samcv there are things in it
07:57 samcv there are more books in ancient languages than klingon though. probably i don't have any statistisc though
07:58 TEttinger then fine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaistos_Disc_(Unicode_block)
07:58 TEttinger this is one that is and may forever be undeciphered
07:58 samcv lol wat
07:58 TEttinger they have no idea what it means, it's in unicode
07:58 * samcv reads the proposal to add it
07:58 huf that's just those animal shaped crackers
07:59 TEttinger yes, we need animal crackers in unicode
07:59 samcv The fundamental issue, of course, is should this be encoded at all? There is exactly one extant
07:59 samcv document in this script, and a short one at that. That could change at any minute, but given the
07:59 samcv failure of any other document written with this script to surface in nearly a century, it doesn't seem
07:59 samcv likely.
07:59 huf i still think we need quake3 in unicode
07:59 samcv :|
08:00 TEttinger yep
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08:00 samcv m: "????".uniname.say
08:00 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «PHAISTOS DISC SIGN PEDESTRIAN␤»
08:00 samcv glad i have a font with these characters in it
08:00 samcv otherwise how could i live with my life
08:01 huf but seriously why not add whatever to unicode? we're not going to run out of numbers...
08:01 samcv well they should add klingon probably if it's used
08:01 TEttinger there is more text in the voynich manuscript than in phaistos disc objects
08:01 TEttinger (one copy of each)
08:01 samcv but. isn't that not an actual language
08:02 samcv or. is that the one we still don't know
08:02 TEttinger also, undeciphered
08:02 TEttinger just as actual as phaistos
08:02 samcv i forget there was one that we deciphered there are several ones undeciphered though
08:02 samcv several manuscripts i mean that are mysterious
08:02 TEttinger there's an xkcd comic about it https://www.xkcd.com/593/
08:03 samcv hah
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08:11 samcv TEttinger, we might know 10 words from the book http://www.livescience.com/43542-voynich-manuscript-10-words-cracked.html
08:11 TEttinger nice
08:12 samcv which seems likely since like there are drawings
08:12 samcv and it's a long enough book
08:12 TEttinger "the", "a", "foxglove", "warhammer"
08:13 TEttinger "+1 Vorpal"
08:13 samcv what?
08:14 TEttinger it has to be a gaming text!
08:14 TEttinger and dungeons and dragons has +1 Vorpal Longswords and such
08:14 samcv nope
08:14 samcv vorpal is a made up word though
08:14 samcv created in modern times
08:15 TEttinger the confusing thing is that there are what appear to be alchemical diagrams using the metaphor of a bath house
08:15 TEttinger lots of nude fairies or women or something in a system of pipes, kinda suggesting an apparatus to move stuff through
08:16 TEttinger that would sync up with the plant diagrams from earlier in the text
08:17 TEttinger but it could also signify star movement or internal medicine symbolism
08:19 * geekosaur contemplates someone in the future trying to decipher "Jabberwocky"
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08:23 samcv we have a written record though. so
08:23 samcv seems pretty likely
08:26 samcv TEttinger, i'm watching the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=676&amp;v=fpZD_3D8_WQ
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09:48 RabidGravy Hmm, that was simpler to fix than I thought
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09:56 RabidGravy timotimo, if you're around be a love and merge https://github.com/arnsholt/Net-ZMQ/pull/11 - it fixes the last problem with Net::ZMQ and makes properly usable again
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10:45 Geth ¦ ecosystem: e6e0583979 | (Julien Simonet)++ | META.list
10:45 Geth ¦ ecosystem: [Log::Any] Fix META6 URL.
10:45 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
10:45 Geth ¦ ecosystem: s/META6.info/META6.json/
10:45 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/e6e0583979
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12:09 dalek Net-ZMQ: f499171 | RabidGravy++ | lib/Net/ZMQ/Message.pm:
12:09 dalek Net-ZMQ: Fix the wrong sized Message struct.
12:09 dalek Net-ZMQ:
12:09 dalek Net-ZMQ: This fixes the memory access faults and runs clean with valgrind
12:09 dalek Net-ZMQ: review: https://github.com/arnsholt/Net-ZMQ/commit/f4991716a3
12:09 dalek Net-ZMQ: 15da7f5 | azawawi++ | lib/Net/ZMQ/Message.pm:
12:09 dalek Net-ZMQ: Merge pull request #11 from jonathanstowe/opaque-message
12:09 dalek Net-ZMQ:
12:09 dalek Net-ZMQ: Fix the wrong sized Message struct.
12:09 dalek Net-ZMQ: review: https://github.com/arnsholt/Net-ZMQ/commit/15da7f5c99
12:10 RabidGravy BOOM!
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12:10 azawawi hi
12:10 RabidGravy my plans for world domination are coming along nicely
12:11 RabidGravy yo azawawi
12:11 azawawi our $plans; # you mean :)
12:13 moritz that's what he wants you to think!
12:14 moritz speaking of world domination
12:14 moritz I've signed a contract with a major tech publisher, who will publish "Perl 6 by Example"
12:14 moritz though with a different title, likely
12:14 jnthn moritz++ # cool! :)
12:14 azawawi grats
12:14 moritz thanks
12:15 RabidGravy fabulous!
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12:21 nadim Yo! I get the feeling that there is a nicer way to write this:
12:21 nadim if %options<display_info>.defined && %options<display_info> == False
12:21 * azawawi uses the NCurses card to begin his world domination :)
12:22 tbrowder ugexe: when a META6.json has a line pointing to a github release zip archive, is that the exact source for an ecosystem install?
12:23 tbrowder with zef, anyway?
12:23 moritz nadim: if %options<display_info> === False { } =
12:23 moritz s/\= $//
12:24 nadim can I also haz an explication?
12:24 moritz === is the identity comparison operator
12:24 moritz so it's only true if the other side is also False
12:25 nadim ah, I get the {} now, it's the block
12:25 moritz if you want a 0 be true too, you could write  unless %options<display_info> // True { ... }
12:26 nadim would it be possible to do it with a junction (in case one has more tests) something like $options<xxx> ~~ .defined && True && > 3
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12:28 jnthn if (.defined && .so given %options<display_info>) { }
12:28 moritz junctions use single &
12:29 moritz m: say so 2 ~~ (.defined & * > 3)
12:29 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «False␤»
12:29 moritz m: say so 2 ~~ (.defined & (* > 3))
12:29 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «False␤»
12:29 moritz m: say so 2 ~~ (*.defined & (* > 3))
12:29 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
12:29 moritz oh, I guess & participates in whatever-currying
12:29 moritz m: say so 2 ~~ (.defined & { $_ > 3})
12:29 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «False␤»
12:30 * moritz confused
12:30 moritz m: say 2 ~~ (.defined & { $_ > 3})
12:30 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «False␤»
12:30 nadim 2 > 3 false?
12:30 moritz erm, yes
12:30 nadim hehe
12:30 moritz m: say 2 ~~ (.defined & { $_  3})
12:30 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 2 ~~ (.defined & { $_7⏏5  3})␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤   …»
12:30 moritz m: say 2 ~~ (.defined & { $_ < 3})
12:30 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «True␤»
12:30 * moritz too tired
12:30 * lizmat wonders if "say "foo" if $_ === False with ⏏%h<a>" should be legal syntax
12:31 lizmat (minus the eject symbol"
12:31 moritz lizmat: s/with/given/ ?
12:32 lizmat no, with, so you get your defined check and localization
12:32 moritz m: say "foo" if $_ === False with False;
12:32 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Confused␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "foo" if $_ === False with 7⏏5False;␤»
12:32 nadim given a Bool, is the comparison to True(False better written $b == True or $b === True?
12:32 lizmat m: dd $_ with False
12:32 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «Bool::False␤»
12:33 moritz nadim: I'd simply write it as "$b" and "!$b"
12:33 moritz if you already know it's a Bool
12:33 lizmat nadim: are you really checking for existence of the key, rather than definedness of the value ?
12:35 nadim for $b === True, you are right, better use it as "$b only", don't know why I compared it altogether!
12:37 nadim as for the first %h<xxx>.defined && $h<xxx> == False; I wanted to know if it was set to false by the user, it is set to True by default
12:38 moritz %h<xxx> //= True;
12:38 nadim I don't want to set it if it is undefined
12:38 nadim just know it it is True
12:38 lizmat %h<xxx> // True
12:39 lizmat if it's not defined, it is supposed to be True, no?
12:39 nadim is something undefined always False?
12:39 lizmat yep
12:39 lizmat well....
12:39 nadim but False is defined, no?
12:39 lizmat m: class A { method Bool { True } }; say ?A
12:39 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «True␤»
12:40 lizmat nadim: yes
12:40 moritz m: say False.defined
12:40 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «True␤»
12:40 lizmat m: dd $_ with False
12:40 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «Bool::False␤»
12:42 nadim m: my $x ; say so $x ~~ .defined
12:42 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «False␤»
12:43 lizmat nadim: without given, you're comparing $_, which is probably not defined
12:43 lizmat m: say 42 ~~ False
12:43 camelia rakudo-moar fbc669: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤    Smartmatch against False always fails; if you mean to test the topic for truthiness, use :!so or *.not or !* instead␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3say 42 ~~ 7⏏5False␤False␤»
12:46 tbrowder hi, #perl6
12:47 tbrowder ref bailador: does anyone have a systemd or sysv init script to manage baile?
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13:12 moritz tbrowder: systemd service files are pretty easy to write; here is one for a mojolicious application: https://github.com/moritz/package-info/blob/master/debian/package-info.service
13:13 moritz should be pretty easy to adapt to a bailador app
13:13 moritz and if you leave out ExecStop command, systemd just sends it a KILL
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13:23 azawawi Can NativeCall handle slurpy (varargs) C functions (e.g. printf) ?
13:28 jnthn azawawi: No
13:28 azawawi Noooo :)
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13:30 azawawi jnthn: any workarounds?
13:32 jnthn Implement support for them? :)
13:32 jnthn But seriously, I think the calling conv is different so you can't just write the signatures you need
13:33 jnthn oh, maybe you can
13:33 jnthn perl6-m -e 'use NativeCall; sub printf(Str, int32) is native {*}; printf("answer is %d\n", 42)'
13:33 azawawi I see. Thanks. Anyway for NCurses it is basically formatting functions so i can pass to sprintf and then pass the final string to the native function
13:33 jnthn answer is 42
13:34 azawawi :)
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13:39 jnthn You can use is symbol('printf') to get different overloads too
13:39 jnthn Only thing that worries me is if this cheat will actually be...reliable... :)
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13:43 azawawi the actual problem is with scanw* window functions
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14:00 azawawi RabidGravy: ping
14:00 RabidGravy erp
14:00 azawawi RabidGravy: you wrote the starfields demo right in ncurses?
14:00 RabidGravy yeah
14:01 RabidGravy worked quite nicely
14:01 azawawi RabidGravy: well now you can resize it :)
14:01 RabidGravy kewl
14:01 azawawi RabidGravy: epic with the transparency
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14:08 RabidGravy Hmm programming is tiring, I need beer
14:11 azawawi Take your time.... muhaahaahhaa :)
14:15 * azawawi enables Atom Perl 6 linter and begins conjuring more n curses examples :)
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15:59 * azawawi mouse events with ncurses... done :)
15:59 azawawi https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/blob/master/examples/06-menu-mouse.pl6
16:33 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 397598895b | (Jonathan Stowe)++ | META.list
16:33 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Add MessagePack::Class
16:33 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
16:33 Geth ¦ ecosystem: See https://github.com/jonathanstowe/MessagePack-Class
16:33 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/397598895b
16:34 RabidGravy azawawi, nice one
16:35 azawawi Thanks
16:37 * azawawi throws some salt around him and begins preparing the next curse-d example :)
16:41 tbrowder ugexe: i'm trying to automate creating a module release on github, and then checking it before adding it to the ecosystem.  which of the paths in the META6 is used by zef? i think you told me the zip file, but i can't find my notes about
16:43 tbrowder moritz: thanks, that's helpful. BTW, can you say who will publish the paper copy of yr book, and maybe what its ne name will be?
16:47 moritz tbrowder: not yet, but I'll keep everybody informed when the facts are settled and public
16:48 timotimo tbrowder: isn't that what Meta6::bin does?
16:49 tbrowder i'll check, thanks!
16:54 baest joined #perl6
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16:56 tbrowder timotimo: that may have the answer, but i'm have to look a bit deeper...
16:57 timotimo META6 is a module that you can use in your own tool, too
16:57 rindolf azawawi: hi, long time
16:57 rindolf azawawi: what's new?
16:57 timotimo it ought to give you a bit of a head-start
16:58 azawawi rindolf: hi. Currently dusting old modules. How are you?
17:00 cdg joined #perl6
17:02 rindolf azawawi: i'm fine - working on freecell solver
17:02 rindolf azawawi: I attended an interesting conversation at the dog owners' gathering
17:03 rindolf azawawi: about europe and stuff
17:05 tbrowder timotimo: it's definitely a good head start, thanks for pointing to it!
17:05 RabidGravy timotimo, tbrowder I have a little script that uses META6 to generate the meta file
17:06 RabidGravy I never bothered putting it in with META6 because well, it's tiny
17:08 azawawi META6::Teensy32 ? :)
17:10 RabidGravy I have a tab open in my browser that is to remind me to do an experiment with an ATTiny85
17:16 RabidGravy I'm pretty sure Perl 6 will never run on one of those
17:18 azawawi RabidGravy: power consumption is like 5 mA at 8 MHz @ 5V. Awesome.
17:19 azawawi Enough distractions :)
17:34 [Coke] tadzik: readme on rakudobrew has some bad md - look for "run something like" on the front page of the project on github
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18:49 Geth ¦ ecosystem: blippy++ created pull request #317: Remove NCurses6 from ecosystem
18:49 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/317
18:51 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 233002ea56 | blippy++ (committed by Zoffix Znet) | META.list
18:51 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Remove NCurses6 from ecosystem (#317)
18:51 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
18:51 Geth ¦ ecosystem: My NCurses6 module is obviated by recent changes to upstream:
18:51 Geth ¦ ecosystem: https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses
18:51 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
18:51 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Therefore NCurses6 should be removed as a redundant package
18:51 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/233002ea56
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19:02 azawawi https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/blob/master/examples/07-acs.pl6
19:04 Xliff joined #perl6
19:10 Xliff joined #perl6
19:11 Xliff Hello!
19:11 Xliff rakudobrew is not working ATM: Configuration FAIL. You can try to salvage the generated Makefile.
19:11 Xliff Command failed (status 256): /usr/bin/perl Configure.pl --optimize --prefix=/home/cbwood/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install --make-install
19:11 baest joined #perl6
19:15 Geth ¦ doc: fff866f52b | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
19:15 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Fix docs for symlink/link routines
19:15 Geth ¦ doc:
19:15 Geth ¦ doc: - Fix issues with argument naming
19:15 Geth ¦ doc: - List new type constraints for args
19:15 Geth ¦ doc: - Mention symlink caveat on Windows
19:15 Geth ¦ doc:
19:15 Geth ¦ doc: Rakudo impl: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8c09c84d64
19:15 Geth ¦ doc:              https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/da1dea2ea0
19:15 Geth ¦ doc: Tests:       https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d4353b6d00
19:15 Geth ¦ doc:              https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8fa49e10a4
19:15 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fff866f52b
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19:17 Xliff rakudobrew is currently broken. Does anyone know if this is known and if there is a fix avail?
19:18 Xliff Actually, I think it might not be rakudobrew specific but a Configuration error.
19:20 timotimo is that the only output you get?
19:20 timotimo because that output doesn't give any information at all
19:21 Xliff You want everything?
19:21 timotimo well, a bit more would be nice at least
19:23 geekosaur rakudobrew is prone to oddnesses in my experience. every so often I have to nuke and reinstall the whole thing
19:23 geekosaur and there's one build path that hasn't worked for me for months
19:24 timotimo yeah like when i did that thing with libtommath >_<
19:25 geekosaur I'm thinking of the "can't find a working make" bit
19:25 timotimo i haven't heard of that
19:31 Xliff Not a rakudobrew thing. Configure.pl
19:31 Xliff Generating build/mk-moar-pc.pl ......................... OK
19:31 Xliff Configuration FAIL. You can try to salvage the generated Makefile.
19:31 Xliff Command failed (status 256): /usr/bin/perl Configure.pl --optimize --prefix=/home/cbwood/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install --make-install
19:31 Xliff Command failed (status 7424): /usr/bin/perl Configure.pl --prefix=/home/cbwood/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install --backends=moar --make-install --git-protocol=https --git-reference=/home/cbwood/.rakudobrew/bin/../git_reference --gen-moar
19:32 moritz try deleting the whole moarvm repo, and try again
19:32 labster joined #perl6
19:32 moritz a subdir changed to a git submodule or so, and a regular 'git pull' can't handle that
19:33 timotimo "rakudobrew nuke"
19:33 timotimo yeah, it was basically the dumbest idea and worst mistake i've done in my whole development life
19:33 moritz wow, then I guess you never dropped a column from a big table in a production database
19:34 moritz (or similar fun things)
19:34 Xliff Same error after nukage
19:34 Xliff moritz: Been (somewhere near) there. Glad for backups. Egg on face.
19:34 pochi joined #perl6
19:34 Xliff But then... company didn't really have a place to do alternative.
19:35 Xliff Customer didn't have another environment.
19:36 moritz who was it recently who dropped their prod database by accidentally running test scripts against it?
19:36 moritz that was like, last week or so
19:37 st_elmo joined #perl6
19:37 geekosaur was that the aws outage?
19:38 moritz no, much more recently
19:38 geekosaur only other one I can think of recently was gitlab
19:38 moritz even more recently :-)
19:39 geekosaur uh, the aws outage I mean was a month ago
19:39 gfldex El_Che: i'm trying to teach travis to use your ubutu packages and am getting odd errors. Did you have success with travis in that regard?
19:40 geekosaur bit it wasn't a test script against a production db, it was a typo
19:40 gfldex El_Che: see line 215 in https://travis-ci.org/gfldex/gfldex-meta-zef-test/builds/222185215
19:41 timotimo moritz: yup, never destroyed a production database like that
19:41 timotimo in fact, nobody has yet let me near a production database :)
19:41 moritz oh, it was Digital Ocean: https://www.digitalocean.com/company/blog/update-on-the-april-5th-2017-outage/
19:42 timotimo they just wanted to be hip and cool and in the news just like amazon
19:42 moritz " A process performing automated testing was misconfigured using production credentials."
19:46 * geekosaur missed that one
19:47 moritz it was much smaller than AWS
19:47 moritz fewer users, and only the control thingy down
19:48 timotimo Xliff: how about you go into the folders and manually go through the steps?
19:48 geekosaur "do'h"
19:49 Xliff timotimo: That was manually using Confiugre from top level rakudo dir.
19:51 timotimo yeah, but it's clearly trying to build moarvm
19:51 timotimo so go into the moarvm folder and run Configure in there
19:51 timotimo and hopefully it'll give you some more output
19:52 Xliff Updating submodules .................................... FAIL
19:52 Xliff git error: fatal: destination path '/home/cbwood/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/nqp/MoarVM/3rdparty/libtommath' already exists and is not an empty directory.
19:52 timotimo yup
19:52 timotimo that's exactly the problem
19:52 Xliff Wasn't libtommath already mentioned>?
19:52 timotimo yeah
19:52 Xliff Well piss!
19:52 geekosaur yes, that's your issue
19:52 timotimo you need to rm -rf that folder
19:52 geekosaur or git submodule update?
19:52 timotimo alternatively, write some code for us that does that automatically
19:52 timotimo geekosaur: no, it won't let you go into a state where the submodule even exists
19:52 timotimo because there's already stuff in the way
19:53 Xliff \0/
19:54 Xliff timotimo: I would first need to know how things SHOULD be done.
19:54 Xliff So that's less me and more .... someone.
19:54 lostinfog joined #perl6
19:55 Xliff So what has life been in rakudoworld since... Feb?
19:55 Xliff I'd read bland changenotes, but why do that when I can give timotimo high blood pressure!? ^_^
19:56 timotimo oh
19:57 timotimo hm, can we even put code in that'll rm -rf that folder?
19:57 timotimo can we checkout a checkout where the submodule is configured?
19:57 timotimo potentially we can
19:57 baest joined #perl6
19:59 timotimo we need to somehow figure out the problem is "already exists and is not an empty directory", but we should also make sure any user changes don't erroneously get rm -rf'd there
19:59 timotimo i suppose it'd be enough to just mv it out of the way
20:02 Xliff When running "./Configure" can you check the output? If you see that git error then mv it out of the way and retry.
20:02 Xliff Say in big red letters "CHECK LIBTOMMATH DIR FOR LOCAL CHANGES. IF NONE EXIST YOU CAN SAFELY REMOVE"
20:05 timotimo *shrug*, it's a perl5 script
20:05 timotimo i don't do perl5
20:08 Xliff timotimo: I sense an upturned nose. ^_^
20:10 Xliff And system command output redirection in perl5 is a bit of a chore.
20:10 Xliff I know there are modules for it, but...
20:11 timotimo no, i just don't want to write some perl5 code that goes against every single best practice out there
20:11 timotimo because i am truly 100% ignorant of how to write good perl5 code
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20:29 samcv a thought i had today. if most ENV vars are all in caps. then wouldn't that make lowercase env vars the least likely to have collisions?
20:29 samcv for personal scripts and such
20:32 baest joined #perl6
20:33 geekosaur that's the general idea, yes
20:34 geekosaur except that there's an edge case: Bourne-derived shells conflate env vars with local shell vars, so you generally use lowercase for the latter and uppercase for the former
20:37 ugexe tbrowder: it uses whatever is listed for `source-url`
20:43 tbrowder ugexe: great! thanks.
20:44 ChoHag joined #perl6
20:51 samcv geekosaur, what about posix shells like dash?
20:51 geekosaur that is Bourne-derived
20:51 samcv ok
20:51 geekosaur fish, rc, and csh/tcsh are shells that are not Bourne-derived
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20:55 gfldex lolibloggedalittle: https://gfldex.wordpress.com/2017/04/14/speeding-up-travis/
20:55 SmokeMachine m: say {try 5 == 5}()
20:55 camelia rakudo-moar 7f73f9: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "==" in expression "5 == 5" in sink context (line 1)␤True␤»
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21:10 TreyHarris samcv: another wrinkle to know about before you intentionally pick the lowercase form of an env variable you know is i use somewhere: zsh at least has the concept of autobound scalar/array pairs, so that you can do "typeset -TU PERL6LIB perl6lib ,", then $perl6lib can be manipulated with array ops while PERL6LIB will remain in its comma-delimited scalar form. (The -T does that; the -U just forces uniqueness as
21:10 TreyHarris you usually want with search path variables.) PATH/path, FPATH/fpath--in general, zsh uses the caps/lowercase convention for this.
21:11 TreyHarris I set up a -TU binding for pretty much every list variable because it's so useful. (With the uniqueness in particular, so you can just do "perl6lib+=mylib" and know it'll be added to the end iff it isn't already there.)
21:12 TreyHarris I don't know if other shells have the same as a general concept; most have it as a special case for PATH/path and other core library env vars.
21:13 geekosaur it's a csh-ism
21:14 geekosaur $path vs. $PATH is the canonical one, hardwired into csh/tcsh; zsh generalized the mechanism
21:14 geekosaur and I think otherwise only fish does it
21:14 Geth ¦ doc: aeeec94478 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
21:14 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Straighten up copy, move, rename
21:14 Geth ¦ doc:
21:14 Geth ¦ doc: - Shorten and unify prose
21:14 Geth ¦ doc: - List new type constraints as implemented in
21:14 Geth ¦ doc:     https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ff97083419
21:14 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/aeeec94478
21:16 TreyHarris geekosaur: that was my guess but I wasn't going to delve into the arcane world of unfamiliar shells' manpages to try to figure it out :-)
21:17 Geth ¦ doc: 6992c483e3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
21:17 Geth ¦ doc: For the love of copy-paste is the root of all evil
21:17 Geth ¦ doc:
21:17 Geth ¦ doc: 1 Timothy 6:10
21:17 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6992c483e3
21:17 TreyHarris when people complain about Perl's un-googleability, Perl (5 or 6) have nothing on shells
21:26 timotimo agreed
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22:12 Geth ¦ doc: 923ea058b6 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
22:12 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Straighten up mkdir docs
22:12 Geth ¦ doc:
22:12 Geth ¦ doc: - Remove removed multi-dir multi[^1]
22:12 Geth ¦ doc: - Direct to `mode` docs for mode info
22:12 Geth ¦ doc:
22:12 Geth ¦ doc: [1] https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0d9ecae6fe
22:12 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/923ea058b6
22:15 TreyHarris I love everything about jnthn's "auto-new" trait suggestion except the name. "method table() is auto-new" just reads wrong. But I can't come up with a better one. "autovivified"? It's not quite the same as subscript autovivification directly translated into attribute autovivication, but it's not that far off....
22:27 gfldex TreyHarris: autoinstance
22:28 AlexDaniel TreyHarris: wait, auto-new? Where can I read about it?
22:29 jnthn Names are hard, not to mention bikesheddable :)
22:30 jnthn (And no, I don't consider auto-new a particularly nice name either :))
22:30 jnthn It's hard to think of something relatively short but descriptive
22:31 jnthn Maybe `is creative` (as in, creates an instance, which plays OK with the Perl 6 .CREATE primitive)
22:31 timotimo we have .CREATE?
22:31 timotimo oh, that's the really low-level one?
22:31 jnthn Yeah
22:31 jnthn It's why the low-level object creation op got named nqp::create
22:31 timotimo i completely missed the suggestion for this auto-new thing
22:32 raiph joined #perl6
22:32 raiph m: sub foo-Int (Int $a) { my Int $b; $b++ for ^$a }; sub foo-int (int $a) { my int $b; $b++ for ^$a }; my $time; $time = now; foo-Int my Int $ = 1e6.Int; say now - $time; $time = now; foo-int my int $ = 1e6.Int; say now - $time; # 0.7627174
22:32 camelia rakudo-moar f9968b: OUTPUT: «0.73760479␤0.479592␤»
22:33 timotimo gfldex: it'd be cool if you could figure out short instructions for using samcv's appimages; the star ones come with zef if i understand correctly
22:33 samcv they do come with zef but you can't really get to it any way
22:33 samcv even though they are inside the image
22:33 timotimo hm, maybe through perl6 -MZef::Something?
22:34 samcv could even add a --zef flag to start zef instead lol
22:34 ugexe perl6 -MZef::CLI
22:34 samcv that might be broken though
22:34 timotimo fantastic! ugexe to the rescue
22:34 samcv i think module preloading is broken on relative paths
22:34 ugexe ah
22:34 samcv i can try it though
22:35 timotimo samcv: wow, all those html files are just one single long line?
22:35 samcv which?
22:35 timotimo https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/106a558f23d6ecf83da91d86ce4f2ec895e80e85/libmoar/coverage/home/travis/build/MoarVM/MoarVM/src/6model/reprs/CPPStruct.c.html
22:35 samcv oh hey... that worked
22:35 samcv magic!
22:35 ugexe $ perl6 -MZef::CLI -e '' install CSV::Parser
22:35 skids joined #perl6
22:36 samcv i guess installed modules are fine to preload. i think non installed modules from $ANY_PATH_HERE don't work
22:36 samcv since rakudo distro is relative path, somehow it confuses the precompiler
22:36 timotimo you're not running a lot of testy stuff there yet?
22:36 samcv for appimages?
22:36 samcv it does run tests before pushing the updated appimages
22:36 timotimo no the coverage report
22:36 samcv oh
22:37 timotimo i was switching topics :P
22:37 samcv it does the nqp test
22:37 timotimo oh facepalm
22:37 samcv though you can't do commands after -MZef::CLI because it tries to resolve the paths in the perl6 script
22:37 timotimo i was looking at moar, not libmoar
22:37 samcv oh
22:38 samcv oh hey
22:38 samcv it worked! \o/ \o/
22:38 samcv nice
22:38 samcv https://moarvm.github.io/MoarVM/libmoar/ fancy
22:39 timotimo very fancy indeed
22:52 Cabanossi joined #perl6
22:57 * azawawi off to sleep q { https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/tree/master/examples :) }
22:58 nowan joined #perl6
23:07 Xliff Er....
23:08 Xliff NativeHelpers::Blob fails, which blows DBIish install.
23:08 Xliff ==> Testing NativeHelpers::Blob
23:08 Xliff t/00-trivial.t .. ok
23:08 Xliff t/01-basic.t .... ok
23:08 Xliff # Failed test 'Indeed'
23:08 Xliff # at t/02-cstruct.t line 112
23:08 Xliff # expected: '-2080500184'
23:08 Xliff #      got: '2214467112'
23:08 Xliff # Looks like you failed 1 test of 35
23:08 Xliff t/02-cstruct.t ..
23:08 Xliff Dubious, test returned 1 (wstat 256, 0x100)
23:08 Xliff Failed 1/35 subtests
23:08 Xliff t/03-pointer.t .. ok
23:08 Xliff t/99-my-meta.t .. ok
23:10 gfldex timotimo: quite frankly I'm not happy with that appimage stuff. We would do much better in providing proper Rakudo Star distro packages on a regular basis, including a repo that could be added to sources.list.
23:11 mst gfldex: ...
23:11 Geth ¦ doc: 47b05262e8 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
23:11 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Explicitly spell out caveats of IO::Path.Str
23:11 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/47b05262e8
23:11 mst gfldex: yes. it would be nice to have those *as well*
23:11 Xliff Nevermind. I filed a ticket with the proper repo.
23:12 mst gfldex: but that's no reason to be mad at somebody for spending their free time building something else
23:12 timotimo gfldex: well, we got the appimages now.
23:12 timotimo it serves as a package for about one gazillion different distros
23:12 gfldex mst: what makes you think I'm mad at anyone?
23:12 mst and is relocatebale and on some systems user-installable and self-contained
23:12 timotimo it only took like 4 days to build
23:13 timotimo that's about 0.001 seconds per distro
23:13 timotimo i'd say that's hard to beat
23:13 mst gfldex: "I'm not happy with X, we would do much better doing Y" is an implicit criticism of X and the work that went into it.
23:13 mst gfldex: that might not have been your intention but is how such comments are likely to be read
23:13 gfldex mst: please stop
23:13 kent\n joined #perl6
23:14 mst gfldex: you asked a question. I was answering it.
23:14 mst normally open source contributors care when they accidentally looked like they were shitting on somebody else's work
23:16 gfldex so let me rephrase then, I personally don't like nor have I ever used appimages. As a consequence of my personal preference I have to decline timotimos kind request to write about stuff I never had plans to write about.
23:16 gfldex mst: happy now?
23:19 timotimo that's fine, it just came across a bit more general than that
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23:24 Xliff Huh!
23:25 gfldex zef got failing tests with bleeding rakudo. No time to hunt it down, I got $dayjob tomorrow.
23:30 TimToady something to do with link or symlink maybe
23:31 Xliff Wow! "sprintf("%p", pointer)" is returning a negative value. WTF?
23:33 TimToady that often means pointer is on the stack
23:34 TimToady many machines put the stack in "negative" memory
23:35 TimToady I suppose this is a pointer from C code calling into some kind of callback?
23:36 TimToady if not, you may have nested runloop problems...
23:36 mst gfldex: yep, that's completely reasonable, and since I agree that vendor packages would also be useful, I'd be perfectly happy to test a set if you ever come up with them
23:36 Xliff It's a NativeCall generated pointer array passed back into C code.
23:36 Xliff LinerArray[]
23:37 Xliff So the pointer is created by rakudo and passed back to a C function.
23:37 Xliff Which means I can't test the C side.
23:38 TimToady I don't see how rakudo can allocate a (valid) pointer on the C stack unless it was called into by some C code that is still live
23:38 Xliff This one test is the only thing that fails in NativeHelper::Blob
23:38 Xliff TimToady: That's what I was thinking.
23:38 gfldex mst: I strongly doubt I will do so as Perl 6 is becoming less and less enjoyable to me.
23:39 TimToady I suppose some OSes *could* be putting heap values that high, but it's not normal in my experience
23:39 Xliff Everything else works, though. Passing that same pointer to C to change values and print them out works fine.
23:40 Xliff It's just checking the "%p" value to the perl6 one that failes.
23:40 TimToady gfldex: is that because we intentionally torment the implementors a bit more than the users?
23:40 Xliff I almost think that test is no longer "valid"
23:41 TimToady gfldex: or is there something else (that is fixable)?
23:42 Xliff TimToady: See lines 33, 41 and 112, here: https://github.com/salortiz/NativeHelpers-Blob/blob/master/t/02-cstruct.t
23:43 Xliff myaddr() is a C routine that simply does sprintf("%p"...) to the passed parameter.
23:43 Xliff And returns the output
23:44 ugexe m: say mkdir("foo") # this is why zef is broke
23:44 camelia rakudo-moar fa201b: OUTPUT: «mkdir is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 1␤  in sub mkdir at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 8␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
23:44 ugexe well that returns True now instead of the directory it created
23:45 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
23:46 TimToady there was something about that over in -dev
23:52 Cabanossi joined #perl6
23:56 labster joined #perl6
23:57 baest joined #perl6

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