Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-04-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:33 timotimo i'll go to bed now; hopefully going to bed a bit earlier will result in better sleep and better getting-out-of-bed
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02:39 skids m: my %h is default(slip()); [%h{2,}].perl.say
02:39 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «[]␤»
02:39 skids m: my %h is default(slip()); [%h{2}].perl.say
02:39 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «[Empty,]␤»
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02:40 skids m: [slip()].perl.say
02:40 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «[]␤»
02:43 skids hmm... was there a reason for nonslice indexing to be protective?
02:45 gfldex m: my %h is default(|()); [%h{2}].perl.say
02:45 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «[slip(),]␤»
02:45 skids m: my %h is default(slip()); (%h{2},).perl.say
02:45 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «()␤»
02:46 skids maybe some interaction with array element itemization...
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03:01 SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> $p {state %a; %a{$p.key} += $p.value};
03:01 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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03:04 skids reduce func needs parms for the new value and the accumulator.
03:04 skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> $p, $ {state %a; %a{$p.key} += $p.value};
03:04 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «No such method 'key' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:04 SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> %reduced, Pair $p {%reduced{$p.key} += $p.value; %reduced}
03:04 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «Cannot assign to an immutable value␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:05 skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: <-> %reduced, Pair $p {%reduced{$p.key} += $p.value; %reduced}
03:05 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «Cannot assign to an immutable value␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:05 SmokeMachine skids: is the accumulator the first or the last one?
03:05 skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> %reduced is rw, Pair $p {%reduced{$p.key} += $p.value; %reduced}
03:05 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤For parameter '%reduced', '%' sigil containers don't need 'is rw' to be writable␤Can only use 'is rw' on a scalar ('$' sigil) parameter, not '%reduced'␤at <tmp>:1␤»
03:06 skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> $b, $a { say "$a $b"; $a + $b };
03:06 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «a  2 a     1␤Cannot resolve caller Numeric(Pair: ); none of these signatures match:␤    (Mu:U \v: *%_)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:06 skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> $b, $a { say "$a $b"; $a.key + $b };
03:06 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «a  2 a     1␤Cannot resolve caller Numeric(Pair: ); none of these signatures match:␤    (Mu:U \v: *%_)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:07 skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> $b, $a { say "$a $b"; $a + $b.value };
03:07 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «a  2 a     1␤Cannot resolve caller Numeric(Pair: ); none of these signatures match:␤    (Mu:U \v: *%_)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:07 skids hrm.
03:08 skids m: my @a = 1,2,3; say @a.reduce: -> $a, $b { say "$a $b"; $a + $b };
03:08 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «1 2␤3 3␤6␤»
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03:09 skids m: my @a = 1,2,3,4; say @a.reduce: -> $a, $b { say "$a $b"; $a + $b };
03:09 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «1 2␤3 3␤6 4␤10␤»
03:09 skids The first then.
03:10 SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> $d, Pair $p {my BagHash $data; if $d ~~ Pair {$data{$d.key} = $d.value} else {$data = $d}; $data{$p.key} += $p.value; $data}
03:10 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «BagHash.new(a(3), c(3))␤»
03:11 SmokeMachine there is no way to set the initial value of the accumulator on a reduce?
03:13 SmokeMachine like: @a.reduce: :initial(BagHash), -> BagHash $acc, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value}
03:14 skids Add it at the front of the list?
03:14 SmokeMachine m: (BagHash, |@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value}
03:14 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '@a' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3(BagHash, |7⏏5@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc, Pair $p {$a␤»
03:15 SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say (BagHash, |@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value}
03:15 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «Cannot modify an immutable BagHash␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:15 skids .new.
03:15 SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say (BagHash, |@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc is rw, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value}
03:15 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «Parameter '$acc' expected a writable container, but got BagHash value␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:16 SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say (BagHash.new, |@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc is rw, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value}
03:16 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «Parameter '$acc' expected a writable container, but got BagHash value␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:16 skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say ($ = BagHash.new, |@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc is rw, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value}
03:16 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in binding to parameter '$acc'; expected BagHash but got Int (1)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:17 skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say ($ = BagHash.new, |@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc is rw, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value; $acc;}
03:17 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «BagHash.new(a(3), c(3))␤»
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03:21 SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say (Bag.new, |@a).reduce: -> Bag $acc, Pair $p {$acc ⊎ $p.key xx $p.value}
03:21 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «bag(a(3), c(3))␤»
03:22 skids xx probably not the most efficient way to go about that.
03:23 SmokeMachine skids: worse than $acc ⊎ $p.key for ^$p.value ?
03:28 skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say (Bag.new, |@a).reduce: -> Bag $acc, Pair $p {$acc ⊎ $p}
03:28 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «bag(a(3), c(3))␤»
03:29 SmokeMachine :)
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04:27 ugexe timotimo: zef reporter branch + `zef install Net::HTTP` + ZEF_REPORTER_P6C=1 enables test reporting and the reports show up on testers.p6c.org now
04:28 ugexe I havent merged it into master yet because I have to multiplex output from TAP.pm6 somehow. For reporting to work it doesn't show any test output until the tests are all finished.
04:28 ugexe http://testers.p6c.org/reports/145800.html
04:30 ugexe fwiw I think reporting quit working for panda (which uses a raw socket) around 2-28, so maybe some newline change?
04:31 ugexe if you can figure it out let me know... i'd like to remove the Net::HTTP dependency
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06:01 samcv well my install of every module. it hung somewhere. not sure why
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06:01 samcv at testing NCurses module
06:03 moritz samcv: putting stuff on hack in ~/public_html/ should work
06:03 samcv and then it's accecible where?
06:04 moritz http://hack.p6c.org/~samcv/
06:04 samcv yay
06:04 moritz I can get an SSL cert for that domain if desired
06:05 samcv http://hack.p6c.org/~samcv/install_log.txt gonna have to figure out how to fix hanges
06:06 samcv i'm using `run` atm to run zef commands
06:06 moritz I believe you have to use Proc::Async to work with timeouts
06:06 samcv best way is to use proc::async? yeah
06:06 moritz my book has an example :-)
06:06 samcv i've done it before. i wish it were less work though
06:07 * moritz too
06:08 moritz time for a high-level module that abstracts this out, I think
06:13 samcv hmm how long to make the timeout
06:13 samcv 5 minutes maybe?
06:13 samcv idk. what's the max time a module and every single dependency could take?
06:13 samcv it should be a leave it alone thing. so i don't want it timing out too early
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06:58 moritz 15min maybe
06:58 samcv moritz, ok going for try 2 now. set a timeout at 10 minutes
06:58 samcv we'll see how it goes
07:00 samcv moritz, why does my utf-8 file show up not in the right encoding?
07:00 moritz Content-Type: text/plain
07:00 samcv not sure what the server settings are http://hack.p6c.org/~samcv/install_log_live.txt this. in firefox and chrome show wrong. though i can manually select Unicode and shows fine
07:01 moritz let me try something...
07:01 samcv thanks :)
07:02 moritz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
07:02 moritz better.
07:02 moritz should work now.
07:02 samcv \o/
07:02 samcv very yes. much good
07:03 moritz AddDefaultCharset utf-8
07:03 moritz was the secret apache sauce
07:05 samcv :) thought so
07:06 samcv up to at least 19 failing so far
07:09 samcv also think i found a zef problem with dependencies. though could be the packages to blame
07:10 samcv HTTP::Tiny fails because it can't find HTTP::Tinyish during testing. though it tests HTTP::Tinyish before it
07:11 samcv hmm https://gist.github.com/samcv/1030286eb95f8788b16f5e0c45e6d431#file-gistfile1-txt-L38-L56
07:11 moritz are those two in separate distributions?
07:12 samcv not sure
07:13 moritz looking at modules.perl6.org: yes
07:13 samcv that's what i had guessed
07:14 samcv i can install HTTP::Tiny with zef myself. but it could be the long dependency chain messed it up somewhere
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07:28 Geth ¦ ecosystem: IanTayler++ created pull request #319: Added MinG.
07:28 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/319
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07:40 moritz what's our policy for ecosystem pull requests with a broken source URL in META6.json?
07:40 moritz wait for a fix? or merge straight away?
07:43 eater moritz: doesn't matter
07:43 Geth ¦ ecosystem: b8e1972ab9 | (Ian Tayler)++ (committed by Moritz Lenz) | META.list
07:43 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Added MinG.
07:43 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
07:43 Geth ¦ ecosystem: MinG is a module for working with Minimalist Grammars: a mildly-context-sensitive formalism first described by Edward Stabler in 1996. MinG::S13 is an implementation of Stabler's 2012/2013 parser for Minimalist Grammars.
07:43 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/b8e1972ab9
07:43 eater its fixed now :d
07:45 moritz aye
07:45 * moritz just invited a few of the last ecosystem contributors to the perl6 org
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07:46 azawawi Good morning #perl6
07:46 azawawi Bug of the day https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/issues/11 :)
07:47 azawawi cglobal does not work as expected when use-d from another library that uses that cglobal (e.g. NCurses)
07:48 azawawi Commenting out the cglobal section fixes the problem https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/blob/master/lib/NCurses.pm6#L30
07:49 azawawi should cglobal's generally be called later?
07:49 azawawi like https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/blob/master/lib/NCurses.pm6#L40 that is
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08:52 nadim morning P6!  \o/
08:53 nadim who is the king of pod?
08:54 nadim I am thinking about porting my module http://search.cpan.org/~nkh/POD-Tested-0.06.4/lib/POD/Tested.pm and wonder  if that is not already done in some way. I read Synopsis but found nothig, want to check.
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08:56 gfldex nadim: not as a module, we got a test in the docs tho
08:58 nadim do you mean inlining the test in the pod?
08:59 gfldex we can extract examples from the docs and compile them, what helps a bit to detect bitrot
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09:00 nadim What tool does that? can Pod be injected as result of code defined in the pod?
09:01 nadim My module is very much about avoiding documentation rot but also as a tool to write cookbooks and design a module with test first
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09:06 gfldex nadim: in that case you might have to patch rakudo itself because ambient nodes are not implemented yet
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09:12 dogbert17_ o/
09:15 dogbert17_ is the document 'Learn Perl 6 in Y minutes' available in our repos? It seems to be hosted on a different server.
09:15 dogbert17_ it contains some errors which should be fixed
09:20 nadim gfldex: do you feel the functionality should be in rakudo or in a module. I am not sure a tool to write cookbooks that are tested are best in rakudo but you know better I guess.
09:26 gfldex nadim: right now the pod parser (that is part of Rakudo) will skip any non-pod parts. If you need them to do facy stuff with the code and pod nodes, you will either have to implement your own parser (very welcome, we don't got that yet) or fix the planned but never implemented Pod::Block::Ambient in Rakudo.
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09:34 timotimo https://github.com/adambard/learnxinyminutes-docs - dogbert17_
09:34 moritz dogbert17_: https://github.com/adambard/learnxinyminutes-docs/
09:35 moritz https://github.com/adambard/learnxinyminutes-docs/blob/master/perl6.html.markdown
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09:42 timotimo m: use nqp; <1 2 3>.map: { when * > 5 { "test {nqp::unbox_i($_ // 0)}" } }
09:42 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: ( no output )
09:42 timotimo m: sub test { use nqp; <1 2 3>.map: { when * > 5 { "test {nqp::unbox_i($_ // 0)}" } } }
09:42 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: ( no output )
09:42 timotimo ... ?!
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09:52 gfldex lolibloggedtoday: https://gfldex.wordpress.com/2017/04/19/dealing-with-fallout/
09:57 timotimo i'm mildly surprised that try has looser precedence than // does
10:06 u-ou m: role A { has $.x }; role B does A { }; role C does A { }; role D does B does C { };
10:06 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: ( no output )
10:07 gfldex .seen retupmoca
10:07 yoleaux I saw retupmoca 8 Jun 2016 21:09Z in #perl6: <retupmoca> m: say ('a'..'d').rotor(2 => -1).perl;
10:08 u-ou m: role A { has $.x }; role B does A { }; role C does A { }; class D does B does C { };
10:08 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Attribute '$!x' conflicts in role composition␤at <tmp>:1␤»
10:10 u-ou m: role A { has $!x }; role B does A { }; role C does A { }; class D does B does C { };
10:10 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Attribute '$!x' conflicts in role composition␤at <tmp>:1␤»
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10:18 timotimo gfldex: i think the code in your blog post is actually slightly wrong
10:18 timotimo m: my $result = try "oh lord".&die // "default"; say $result
10:18 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «(Any)␤»
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10:19 timotimo well, that's not failure
10:19 timotimo m: my $result = try "oh lord".&fail // "default"; say $result
10:19 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «default␤»
10:19 timotimo oh, interesting
10:20 timotimo m: my $result = try "oh lord".&fail.butthismethdoesntexist // "default"; say $result
10:20 camelia rakudo-moar e1c086: OUTPUT: «(Any)␤»
10:20 gfldex timotimo: already fixed
10:21 timotimo OK!
10:22 gfldex I noticed because I'm writing a 2nd blog post right nao!
10:22 timotimo that's good bloggage
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10:30 gfldex m: sub picky(\c:($,$)) {say &c.arity}; picky(* - *);
10:30 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    c used at line 1␤␤»
10:31 gfldex m: sub picky(\c:($,$)) {say c.arity}; picky(* - *);
10:31 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    c used at line 1␤␤»
10:31 timotimo wouldn't you want |c there?
10:31 timotimo oh
10:31 gfldex m: sub picky(&c:($,$)) {say &c.arity}; picky
10:31 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0␤  in sub picky at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
10:32 timotimo sorry, that's different
10:32 gfldex m: sub picky(&c:($,$)) {say &c.arity}; picky({$^a, $^b})
10:32 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «2␤»
10:32 gfldex m: sub picky(&c:($,$)) {say &c.arity}; picky(* - *)
10:32 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «Constraint type check failed in binding to parameter '&c'; expected anonymous constraint to be met but got WhateverCode ({ ... })␤  in sub picky at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
10:32 gfldex is there a way to say "I want a WhateverCode but it must have 2 params!"?
10:33 timotimo well, you can have a where clause for that, but it should have worked with what you had there, i think
10:33 gfldex m: my &c = * - *; &c.arity.say
10:33 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «2␤»
10:33 timotimo yeah
10:33 gfldex so the compiler knows
10:33 timotimo maybe it's expecting Any, but gets Mu?
10:33 moritz m: sub picky(WhateverCode \c where .arity == 2) { c(1, 2) }; say *-*
10:33 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '&c' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3ky(WhateverCode \c where .arity == 2) { 7⏏5c(1, 2) }; say *-*␤»
10:33 moritz m: sub picky(WhateverCode \c where .arity == 2) { c.(1, 2) }; say *-*
10:33 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «{ ... }␤»
10:34 timotimo m: my &c = * - *; &c.signature.perl.say
10:34 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «:(;; $whatevercode_arg_1 is raw, $whatevercode_arg_2 is raw)␤»
10:34 gfldex moritz: thx
10:34 moritz though in most cases I'd restrict to Callable, not to WhateverCode
10:35 moritz so picky(&c where .arity == 2) { }
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10:46 nadim Playing with the profiler, It seems that quite some time is spend as sink at SETTING::src/core/Seq.pm:183, is that usual?
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10:47 jnthn nadim: Inclusive time, or exclusive time?
10:47 jnthn But yes, it's very normal if your program has, say, a for loop
10:47 gfldex m: sub picky(WhateverCode $c) { $c.(1) }; say (try picky( return * )) // $!.^name
10:47 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «X::ControlFlow::Return␤»
10:48 nadim it Data::Dump::Tree, lots of loops, but and that is a gut feeling, it seems that most of the time is spend there
10:48 jnthn Since for @a { body } compiles into @a.map({ body }).sink
10:48 nadim ah!
10:48 jnthn The .sink being what actually makes the work happen since map is lazy
10:48 nadim ok, good to know
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11:01 gfldex lolibloggedagain! https://gfldex.wordpress.com/2017/04/19/you-can-call-me-whatever-you-like/
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11:25 grondilu m: say grammar { rule TOP { <ident> | <TOP>+ % \+ } }.parse: 'foo+bar'
11:25 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «Nil␤»
11:25 * grondilu was hoping that would work
11:26 jnthn No, the LTM is terminated by recursion
11:26 jnthn So the <ident> ends up winning
11:26 grondilu oh yeah
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11:30 grondilu wait but then why doesn't it return "foo"?
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11:35 jnthn Because parse anchors at the end of the string
11:35 jnthn Presumably .subparse would give back foo
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12:12 Geth ¦ doc: 555bb55d87 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Any.pod6
12:12 Geth ¦ doc: Document Any.unique
12:12 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/555bb55d87
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12:15 dogbert17_ moritz: thx for the link, sorry for the late reply
12:16 moritz dogbert17_: no problem
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12:20 Geth ¦ doc: af1c4ddc4b | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/List.pod6
12:20 Geth ¦ doc: Add advice to reword .unique :with using :as when possible
12:20 Geth ¦ doc:
12:20 Geth ¦ doc: The :with has O(n²/2) complexity and basically slows to a crawl with
12:20 Geth ¦ doc: 2000+ element lists.
12:20 Geth ¦ doc:
12:20 Geth ¦ doc: my @p = 1..3000; @ = @p.unique: :with(&[eqv]); say now - INIT now; # 25.42728348
12:20 Geth ¦ doc: my @p = 1..3000; @ = @p.unique: :as(*.Str); say now - INIT now;    # 0.0185597
12:20 Geth ¦ doc: say 25.427/.0186; #  1367.043011
12:20 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/af1c4ddc4b
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13:43 Stamm hello
13:43 Stamm i have a small question about hashes
13:43 Stamm what is the syntax to add an element with a non-string key?
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13:46 timotimo you just put it in with %thehash{$object} = "hi"
13:46 timotimo but the hash must be an object hash, or else it'll stringify $object for you
13:46 timotimo https://docs.perl6.org/type/Hash#index-entry-object_hash
13:46 moritz m: my %h{Any}; my $key = []; %h{$key} = 'foo'; say %h{$key}; say %h{[]}
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «foo␤()␤»
13:47 moritz Stamm: ^^ that's a way to work with an object hash
13:48 MasterDuke_ m: my %h{Int}; my $a = "a"; %h{$a}++
13:48 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in binding to parameter 'key'; expected Int but got Str ("a")␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
13:48 Stamm_ joined #perl6
13:48 Stamm_ ok, thank you
14:02 ugexe samcv: the reason HTTP::Server::Tinyish fails is because it does some-test-that-does-run($my-code-with-dependency) with the assumption that all their dependencies are fullfilled by CURI and not one of the other possible CURs
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14:05 isBEKaml OHHAI
14:06 timotimo greetings
14:10 sufrostico joined #perl6
14:10 sufrostico joined #perl6
14:11 isBEKaml Were there some changes to moarvm's configure script recently?
14:12 isBEKaml My daily builds don't work anymore -- I'll try to fetch a detailed trace output in a bit
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14:14 timotimo it could very well be that it's choking on libtommath
14:14 timotimo i turned it from a folder full of files into a submodule
14:14 timotimo git really, really, really, really, really, really didn't like that
14:14 timotimo so just nuke your moar and all should be good
14:14 isBEKaml yeah, that's what it looks like.... it failed on a submodule update and silently screamed at me for those existing folders!
14:15 timotimo maximum ugh.
14:15 isBEKaml I wiped 3rdparty, let's see if that works
14:15 timotimo might be bad. now there's stuff missing in there
14:15 isBEKaml *shrug* -- I'll know soon
14:16 isBEKaml \o/
14:16 isBEKaml it works!
14:16 timotimo nice
14:17 isBEKaml urr, 3rdparty/uthash.c? Not cool, man
14:17 timotimo it'd be cool if we had a piece of code in the configure script that could figure out what's happening with the submodules
14:17 timotimo and mv the 3rdparty/libtommath folder out of the way
14:17 timotimo (so that no local changes, if any, get destroyed)
14:20 isBEKaml this 3rdparty folder is trucked
14:21 isBEKaml I'm downloading a fresh zip from Github and copying over missing folders
14:25 isBEKaml Okay, it's all good now
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14:29 nicq20 Hello \o
14:29 yoleaux 9 Feb 2017 17:34Z <tony-o> nicq20: you may have to do zef update -
14:30 timotimo why not just git reset --hard? taht'll give you all files back, too
14:32 isBEKaml timotimo: I don't have any local changes. I usually do: 'git clean -xdf' and 'git pull' for taking off on git HEAD
14:33 timotimo you had local changes, you rm -rf'd 3rdparty/
14:33 timotimo 3rdparty contains files under gits control
14:33 timotimo so reset --hard would get them back
14:34 isBEKaml Oh, right -- totally forgot about that. Anyway, I've now fully built perl6
14:34 nicq20 Is there a way to get `my $var = 'PLAYING CARD TEN OF DIAMONDS'; say "\c[$var]";` to work? Is interpolation disabled for unicode names?
14:35 timotimo we have something for that now
14:36 ilmari m: my $var = 'PLAYING CARD TEN OF DIAMONDS'; say $var.parse-names
14:36 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «🃊␤»
14:36 timotimo m: say parse-names('PLAYING CARD TEN OF DIAMONDS')
14:36 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «🃊␤»
14:36 timotimo i don't remember when that name was decided upon?
14:37 nicq20 Yeah, I was going to say it seems like an odd choice...
14:37 nicq20 Oh, well. :)
14:37 ilmari Author: Zoffix Znet <cpan@zoffix.com>
14:37 ilmari Date:   2017-03-02 19:22:23 +0000
14:37 ilmari Implement Str.parse-names
14:38 ilmari Naming: the name follows Str.parse-base that parses a string containing numerals in some base; whereas this routine parses a string of character names
14:38 nicq20 Huh, ok.
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14:41 timotimo ah
14:45 skids maybe parse-uninames to match Str.uninames?
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14:50 nicq20 skids: That would make more sense to me at least.
14:51 * skids wonders what zoffix handle-of-the-day is.
14:51 isBEKaml parse-uninames definitely makes more sense
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14:58 TreyHarris Is a Junction::Utils with constructs to construct complex junctions so you can say "two", "three", "n or more", "n or less" a silly idea? I just needed a "2 or more" junction and wondered if it was worth generalizing
15:04 Cabanossi joined #perl6
15:05 perlpilot TreyHarris: what's a "2 or more" junction?
15:05 sufrostico joined #perl6
15:05 perlpilot TreyHarris: you mean like "any(@foo) but at least 2" ?
15:06 timotimo yeah
15:06 Zoffix joined #perl6
15:06 Zoffix skids: the handle is Zoffix
15:06 Zoffix skids: what'd you want?
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15:07 skids Oh somehow I missed seeing you in the user list.
15:07 skids The suggestion was that Str.parse-names might be better Str.parse-uninames
15:07 Zoffix I wasn't
15:07 [Coke] I wouldn't use it, but if it's something you needed, abstracting it out into a module might help someone else, sure.
15:08 Zoffix skids: I don't follow this channel, but my bot pinged me because of name mention
15:08 skids ZofBot?
15:08 Zoffix Yup
15:08 skids ZofBot: .botsnack
15:08 ZofBot skids, om nom nom nom
15:08 synopsebot6 om nom nom
15:09 Zoffix .parse-names has been in two releases already. The name bikeshedding kinda concluded when the PR with it got merged.
15:09 Zoffix You can join #perl6-dev if you wish to keep current to development discussions.
15:10 Zoffix ... such as what to name .parse-names :)
15:12 * Zoffix reads back
15:12 TreyHarris timotimo: exactly. like "one(...)", only "two(...)" or "two-or-more(...)" (obviously, parameterized, so actually probably "exactly(2, ...)" or "at-least(2, ...)" or "at-most(2, ...)" ... is that the best signature or is there a cleaner one?
15:13 perlpilot TreyHarris: are you *sure* junctions are the right answer?   Feels more like sets and counting to me.
15:14 Zoffix "don't remember when that name was decided upon?". I proposed the name on March 2nd EST morning, then in afternoon made a PR. Lizmat merged it later in the day, after a +1 from [Coke]: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1031
15:14 moritz TreyHarris: IMHO junctions are neat, but if they don't do what you want, they aren't worth tweaking
15:14 moritz I tend to use junctions only as boolean matchers
15:14 * perlpilot too
15:14 moritz in that context you can typically fall back to a callback instead
15:15 Zoffix skids: so yeah, .parse-uninames sounds better if a bit too much typing. But I don't want to change something that's been in a release already.
15:15 TreyHarris moritz: ah, I haven't looked into how to run authothreading manually, but that's why I was using them, because "so at-least-one(...)" was quite useful to me and embarrassingly parallell
15:15 Zoffix in 2 releases
15:15 Zoffix left #perl6
15:16 TreyHarris sorry, "at-least-two"
15:16 TreyHarris "at-least-one" we have, "any"
15:18 TreyHarris (er, how to do *threading* manually, I meant, obviously)
15:19 moritz junction don't actually evaluate in parallel yet
15:19 skids ah, well, bummer.  Unfortunately I barely have the attention-time to keep current on everything.
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15:20 skids s/barely/rarely/
15:20 TreyHarris moritz: I know, but I like maintaining the fiction for future-proofing. In this case I'm using junctions of attributes of machines in a datacenter, so it's an obvious case
15:21 moritz TreyHarris: I can't follow that line of reasoning
15:22 moritz but you don't actually have to convince me
15:23 moritz putting stuff into a junction makes it harder to actually use the stuff, unless you only ever use them as boolean matchers
15:23 TreyHarris moritz: if autothreading would likely come to Sets at the same time (or soon after) it came to Junctions, then you've convinced me.
15:25 TreyHarris moritz: (you don't understand why I'd want to future-proof so that the code would autothread later on? I know you don't want me to convince you, so I won't continue arguing, I just want to be sure I know what you don't understand so will know what to reconsider my thinking on)
15:27 moritz TreyHarris: you're basically saying you rely on behavior that might change in future, in order to future-proof your code
15:29 TreyHarris moritz: oh, i thought the one point of junctions was this thing--if I can't rely on it, then I should be doing map-so-length checks instead, no?
15:29 TreyHarris because maps can be parallelized easily in most languages.
15:30 TreyHarris (sorry, I said I wasn't going to argue. So nm, but I apparently don't get it....)
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15:30 moritz TreyHarris: the point of junctions is to express ideas more idiomatic
15:30 moritz or more direct
15:31 TreyHarris right, and map-so-length >= 2 is idiomatically, "at-most 2"
15:32 TreyHarris but yeah, I'll just use sets and lenghts.
15:33 Zoffix Wanted to clarify "bikeshedding kinda concluded when the PR with it got merged". I meant the name was proposed in a PR first; I didn't just commit. It's very easy to change a name for a feature added, but *before it's in a release*. Telling people to go use something and then pulling the carpet from under them is LTA. And on more official level: .parse-name isn't even part of Perl 6 language yet, since it's
15:33 Zoffix only in the `master` spec that's yet to be reviewed and approved for 6.d. In the future, we'll likely want to improve this process, so there's some grace period or somethign for features that need time to solidify. OTOH, Slangs are not official either, but people are using them :/
15:35 Zoffix Telling people to go use something as in a release changelog/docs I mean
15:35 TreyHarris Zoffix: are you saying that bikeshedding names _before_ that _is_ a good use of time? Because I seems to remember a certain TimToady giving a certain State of the Onion on the importance of naming.... ;-)
15:37 Zoffix TreyHarris: that question is ambiguous since "bikeshedding" can mean "trying to decide on a name in a group" or "pointlessly wasting time on irrelevant minutae"
15:37 moritz investing time in names that appear in a public API sounds like a good investment, if used productively
15:37 * skids slinks to a discrete corner of the room and tries to pretend he didn't start this.
15:38 TreyHarris skids: lol
15:38 Zoffix :)
15:38 perlpilot not to bikeshed, but I probably would have called it unichars().   uninames() is given some chars it gives you names, unichars() is given some names it gives you chars.
15:39 moritz skids: I prefer continuous corners over discrete corners :-)
15:40 TreyHarris Zoffix: maybe "speak up if a name seems objectively BAD (i.e., reads as ungrammatical English in the way it's typically used, so will lead to frustrating and repeatedspelling mistakes) or if you have a name you think is so much obviously better, but don't waste time iterating on names?"
15:40 Zoffix skids: you did bring up an issue in the process, I think
15:41 Zoffix That public API changes should probably given some X amount of time for dev/community feedback.
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15:42 Zoffix m: "foo.txt"
15:42 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of constant string "foo.txt" in sink context (line 1)␤»
15:42 skids I am reminded to bother TimToady or anyone else for bikeshedding "insist role" or "insist method" for my noisy roles branch.
15:42 Zoffix m: "bar/foo.txt".IO.sibling("meow.txt").say
15:42 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «"bar/meow.txt".IO␤»
15:42 Zoffix Like that was added after a brief mention on IRC channel.
15:42 skids (https://gist.github.com/skids/18fa6fb1de776400abd43b6e82e9fcc2)
15:43 Zoffix skids: I liked the old thing that was proposed. Some sort of prefix to method
15:43 Zoffix forget what it was
15:43 skids claim.
15:43 Zoffix Ah, yeah :)
15:43 skids But that was applied in a different place.
15:43 Zoffix Ah
15:44 skids I updated the gist since to explain the difference.
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15:46 TreyHarris Zoffix: was there a good objection to "sibling"/obviously better proposal too late?
15:47 Zoffix TreyHarris: there were no objection from the group that saw the proposal on the IRC at the time
15:48 Zoffix TreyHarris: .sibling was a safe bet tho. It was stolen from Mojolicious's Mojo::File and that core team bikesheds everything to death and isn't shy on changing stuff later on
15:48 TreyHarris Zoffix: you're just saying you feel like there might have been, given more public response time.
15:48 Zoffix TreyHarris: right.
15:49 TreyHarris better to give room for bikeshedding when it doesn't, in some sense "matter" but in another sense *really* matters than to not and leave people to bikeshed later; since bikeshedding they will do regardless, give them an outlet at the time it's actually easy to accept such as constructive input rather than complaint
15:50 Zoffix Or not even the naming, but the change to make IO::Path read methods eager to avoid accidental handle leak. Seems a sane change, but if you follow up on what's using it, you realize that makes all Perl 6 one liners slow and memory hungry when working with largish files
15:50 Zoffix (we didn't do that change at the end)
15:54 * skids just waiting until someone names something ".family-style"
15:55 TreyHarris Zoffix: indeed. I had a rather hilarious mistake the other day where I temporarily double-bound the same key to XMonad and to Meta, and this resulted, after I tried to visit each of my workspaces, then hit a key, got no response, so tapped enter, my machine froze and then everything went on "normally". the next day I discovered my shells would lock up if I reverse-searched beyond commands a day old. This was
15:55 TreyHarris because I had a single line in histfile whose command consisted only of 234,567,891 copies of the letter 'f'. "fffffffffffff...." (so appropriate that it was 'f', no?) In any case, filtering out the line using Perl 5 took 0.03 sec timed. Perl 6 took about 16 seconds. Every other major high-level language crashed or took so long (minutes) I aborted it. Even _Haskell's_ core-library IO took 35 seconds then
15:55 TreyHarris crashed, though switching to the correct Data.IO.Lazy libraries got it down to a single-digit number of seconds w/o crashing.
15:56 Zoffix .tell samcv looks likere there's possible bustitude with the docs site and the $COLON stuff. Try looking up '.?' safecall operator; when you visit the page, it's /routine/?
15:56 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to samcv.
15:56 okcomputer joined #perl6
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15:59 TreyHarris (actually, looking back, it was 678,912,345 copies, because my histfile was over half a gig)
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16:02 Zoffix "Perl 6 IO TPF Grant: Monthly Report (April, 2017)": http://blogs.perl.org/users/zoffix_znet/2017/04/perl-6-io-tpf-grant-monthly-report-april-2017.html
16:06 TreyHarris (the filtering function I used, for reference, was perl -ne 'print unless /^.{1000}/'; interestingly, that ran faster than the equivalent using length())
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16:09 Zoffix .tell [Coke] my April grant report has been published on blogs.perl.org. You can get it in Markdown format at https://github.com/zoffixznet/IOwesomeness/blob/master/reports/Apr-2017.md
16:09 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
16:09 Zoffix \o
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16:26 Geth ¦ doc: 0fc39a6082 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | type-graph.txt
16:26 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Fix typegraph
16:26 Geth ¦ doc:
16:26 Geth ¦ doc: IO::Special does IO
16:26 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0fc39a6082
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16:51 okcomputer I just configured perl6 from rakudobrew and from source, each time I receive a warning regarding Linenoise.  Should I be concerned about this?
16:52 gfldex okcomputer: it will work fine without linenoise
16:55 okcomputer gfldex: is there any particular reason, or is it something I'll have to deal with?
16:56 gfldex okcomputer: you need linenoise for a happy REPL. You can enjoy Perl 6 without ever touching it's REPL.
16:56 * gfldex hugs camelia
16:58 okcomputer gfldex: The REPL was one of the things I was looking forward to, is there a setup guide?
16:59 khw joined #perl6
17:00 gfldex okcomputer: not that I know of
17:00 timotimo i think you really just need to "zef install Linenoise" or "zef install Readline"
17:01 timotimo please be aware that the repl still tends to give some really strange behaviours sometimes
17:01 timotimo so if something fails in some mysterious way, make sure to try it in a regular file, too
17:02 okcomputer timotimo: it is installed, I get an error: "I ran into a problem while trying to set up Linenoise: Failed to create directory '/' with mode '0o777': Failed to mkdir: 21
17:02 okcomputer Continuing without tab completions or line editor
17:03 timotimo wait what :)
17:03 gfldex sounds like fallout
17:03 okcomputer Yeah
17:03 timotimo yeah, let's see
17:04 timotimo i need to rebuild lots of rakudo first
17:05 timotimo so it'll take me a while to look into it
17:06 okcomputer timotimo: No problem.  If I can help let me know
17:06 timotimo does it give a better error when you pass --ll-exception to perl6?
17:07 okcomputer same one
17:07 timotimo hm, how do you get it to spit out a backtrace or something ...
17:09 okcomputer you mean OSX or perl6?
17:10 timotimo perl6
17:12 okcomputer ok, I've already run some basic tests, and it's not my terminal or shell or the combinantion of the 2, perl6 actually is trying to change the / dir to 777 according to the console
17:13 timotimo well, that's very wrong :)
17:13 timotimo oh great
17:14 timotimo it start up no-prob on my end
17:14 okcomputer I assumed you guys would have picked up on this already if it was common
17:15 Zoffix joined #perl6
17:15 gfldex the IO stuff was rewritten the last few weeks. There is likely more fallout lurking.
17:15 Zoffix okcomputer: what's your perl6 -v ?
17:15 okcomputer This is Rakudo version 2017.04-1-g241831e built on MoarVM version 2017.04
17:16 okcomputer implementing Perl 6.c.
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17:16 timotimo okcomputer: are you cool with running gdb?
17:16 Zoffix okcomputer: upgrade. You have a buggy release.
17:16 timotimo because it'll let us get a perl6-level backtrace
17:16 * TimToady blames hackers
17:16 Zoffix m: $*PERL.compiler.version.say
17:16 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «v2017.04.2.3.g.6.f.3.de.6641␤»
17:17 Zoffix okcomputer: there was a bug with %?RESOURCES and I see Linenoise is using some of 'em. I can't repro the problem on HEAD
17:19 okcomputer Zoffix: ok, any specific version to try?  I've been getting this error for about a week with the same errors on a couple of different versions
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17:19 Zoffix okcomputer: 2017.04.2 should be good
17:20 timotimo gfldex: i have a .gitconfig that upsets meta6-bin
17:20 okcomputer Zoffix and timotimo: Thanks, i'll be back after the compile
17:21 gfldex timotimo: please share
17:21 Zoffix okcomputer: hm... A week...  I think the %?RESOURCESS breakage was introduced just on April 17th. So it might be something else.
17:22 timotimo https://gist.github.com/timo/0335a8e7620a40fee44cef76ff3f091c - gfldex
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17:23 azawawi hi
17:23 timotimo gfldex: maybe it'd be wise to use the "git config" commands to get what you want
17:23 okcomputer Zoffix:  Yeah, I first built perl6 last thursday
17:23 gfldex timotimo: should be easy to fix
17:23 Zoffix okcomputer: what OS are you using?
17:23 timotimo like "git config -l" will give yuo everything in a probably-simpler-to-parse format
17:24 timotimo and with -z you'll get values delimited by nullbytes
17:24 timotimo Zoffix: that's OSX
17:24 okcomputer Zoffix:  10.12.4 to be exact
17:24 azawawi what's OSX? :)
17:24 * Zoffix doesn't have access to OSX :(
17:25 Zoffix I'm not hip enough....
17:25 azawawi http://www.macincloud.com ? :)
17:26 azawawi maybe they have an open source license or something
17:27 azawawi Zoffix: also use travis osx :)
17:27 Zoffix azawawi: is that a proper service that lets you run code on OSX or some scam? So far, the "macinclooud" answer I've been getting is Apple forbidding it because they like their laptop sales too much
17:28 azawawi Zoffix: you have like 2-3 mac cloud services. And no i havent tried it personally
17:28 gfldex timotimo: the culprit is [url "schema://some.url"]. Fixed locally travis is travising.
17:28 azawawi but i researched it earlier while trying to run some osx stuff
17:29 Zoffix azawawi: cool. thanks. The $29/month don't sound too bad
17:29 azawawi also https://www.hostmyapple.com/
17:30 Zoffix okcomputer: still having an issue on the updated complier?
17:30 Zoffix uuuu
17:31 * Zoffix sees the potential bug spot
17:31 Zoffix uuuhhh wtf
17:31 okcomputer Zoffix it builds slow on my laptop, should finish soon...
17:32 Zoffix What's up with this @parts business: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/core/REPL.pm#L46
17:32 Zoffix That might be okcomputer's bug
17:33 Zoffix Ah, and mkdir used to return empty list but now fails so that's why it remained hidden so long
17:33 * Zoffix boots up the VM to add a fix
17:33 azawawi do we have known bugs about nativecall's cglobal usage?
17:34 azawawi i had to do this workaround for cglobal to work when used from another package that uses NCurses
17:34 azawawi it is as of NCurses is cursed :)
17:34 azawawi as of=as if
17:34 azawawi https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/blob/master/lib/NCurses.pm6#L30
17:36 geekosaur if it's to be global, maybe it should be our
17:38 azawawi tried it
17:38 Zoffix Tho I wonder why I can't repro the issue :/
17:38 azawawi but got this weird bug https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/issues/11
17:39 timotimo gfldex: i almost thought so. it's a really weird thin to have in a .ini style file
17:39 azawawi geekosaur: https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/commit/235a880c3a459c329c872d7e2f85e557ccc61e46#diff-d695cd10621ba46d8c04189ccd8d3e5eL30
17:41 gfldex timotimo: please `zef upgrade Git::Config`
17:42 timotimo sure
17:42 Zoffix timotimo: If that doesn't work, use zef --force install https://github.com/gfldex/perl6-git-config/archive/master.zip
17:43 Zoffix I noticed zef uses versions that I think it pulls from modules.zef.pm or something and doesn't get new stuff right away
17:43 geekosaur that was more "I can see other similar problems coming in the future"
17:43 Zoffix okcomputer: can you try running this: perl6 -e 'mkdir "/"'
17:44 Zoffix 'cause for me that doesn't fail. I guess it fails on OSX :/
17:44 azawawi geekosaur: native api was the first step for now. Next step is OO python-blessings like easy API
17:45 okcomputer Zoffix: it crashed my shell/terminal
17:46 geekosaur uh
17:46 Zoffix okcomputer: good. I found the bug that's hitting you. Working on a fix. Gimme 2 mins
17:48 Cabanossi joined #perl6
17:49 geekosaur azawawi, in any case I think the problem is cglobal returns a Proxy, and if you run the lookup multiple times you may kill the existing Proxy. I don;t *think* there can be cache effects..,
17:50 geekosaur there might be an argument for cglobal caching the Proxy it produces for a given symbol
17:53 azawawi geekosaur: anyway it crashed when used from another package and hence changed :)
17:53 azawawi geekosaur: also for ncurses, some variables are not actually useful until initscr is called (e.g. LINES)
17:53 geekosaur "crashed" doesn't tell me much.
17:53 azawawi geekosaur: https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/issues/11
17:54 azawawi geekosaur: Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Null; VMNull)
17:54 geekosaur and yes, you have that limitation. also you will run into trouble you try to use it with threads
17:54 azawawi geekosaur: i agree
17:55 geekosaur I worked out what was initialized when at one point, but I think the safest action is to assume nothing is defined until initscr has been called
17:56 azawawi geekosaur: if you change one of them to our xyz is export = cglobal(...) you will get that error for sure
17:56 geekosaur ...except that for anything involved with colors, you must wait for init_color
17:57 Zoffix 2 more mins
17:57 geekosaur azawawi, yes, both stdscr and curscr will be NULL until initscr
17:57 azawawi start_color you mean?
17:58 geekosaur sorry, yes
17:58 geekosaur also stuff like the slk_ * functions and related variables only work after you init the subsystem
17:58 azawawi no worries
17:58 geekosaur so yes, expect to have to delay everything
17:58 Zoffix uhh.. failures in /repl.t
17:58 * Zoffix needs more minutes :)
18:00 geekosaur this should probably be documented as a NativeCall gotcha, that many libraries' globals will be NULL until the library is properly initialized, this is C-side behavior and NativeCall cannot insulate you from it
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18:02 Zoffix okcomputer: sorry, I fixed the mkdir bug but introduced a new one and having trouble getting the line from where the error is comign from :/
18:02 azawawi "Time is an illusion", Albert Einstein :)
18:02 TEttinger joined #perl6
18:02 okcomputer Zoffix: I rebuilt the VM and perl6 but I'm just now reading your later posts.
18:02 Zoffix .oO( 99 bugs in the code, 99 bugs.... patch one down, blah blah blah, 109 bugs in the code )
18:04 Zoffix Ah. I need to learn to read ALL of the output :P
18:04 okcomputer Zoffix:  Would it be useful if I set up ssh on an unused macbook?
18:05 Zoffix Nah, don't worry about it.
18:06 Zoffix I fixed the stuff. Just compiling + stresstesting (takes ~4 minutes) and then should be good
18:11 Zoffix okcomputer: this should be the fix: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b4fa6d6792
18:11 Zoffix okcomputer: rakudobrew build nom; rakudobrew switch moar-nom; rakudobrew rehash
18:12 Zoffix Let me know if that fixes the issue, once the build finishes
18:15 okcomputer Zoffix: 'nom' is not an available backend, how do i build it?
18:15 RabidGravy BOOM!
18:15 Zoffix okcomputer: rakudobrew build moar nom; rakudobrew switch moar-nom; rakudobrew rehash
18:15 Zoffix That should be the right command :)
18:16 RabidGravy something like that
18:16 * Zoffix just has update-perl6 alias that nukes everythign and builds from scratch
18:17 RabidGravy :+1+
18:22 * samcv wakes uup and checks the module build log
18:22 yoleaux 15:56Z <Zoffix> samcv: looks likere there's possible bustitude with the docs site and the $COLON stuff. Try looking up '.?' safecall operator; when you visit the page, it's /routine/?
18:22 samcv 2.8MB great
18:22 okcomputer Zoffix: no startup error. just need to see if it works
18:22 samcv wow... it's still installing modules....
18:23 samcv after like 11 hours?
18:23 samcv O.o
18:23 samcv or however long it was. in any case it's a very long time
18:23 Zoffix buggable: eco
18:23 buggable Zoffix, Out of 816 Ecosystem dists, 77 have warnings, 3 have errors, and 672 have no tags in META file. See https://modules.perl6.org/update.log for details
18:23 Zoffix m: say 816/11
18:23 camelia rakudo-moar 6f3de6: OUTPUT: «74.181818␤»
18:23 samcv oh. it. i think it's asking for my github user name idk why
18:24 Zoffix More than 1 module per minute. Not bad IMO
18:24 samcv i will wake up more first
18:24 okcomputer Zoffix: installs and functions as expected (at the moment), thanks for your help
18:24 Zoffix I know there's some Date module by supernovus that takes ages to test
18:24 samcv yes. i know it well
18:24 Zoffix okcomputer: \o/ thanks for reporting the bug :)
18:25 okcomputer it gave me a reason to come on irc after a long time :)
18:25 Zoffix :)
18:25 Zoffix \o
18:25 Zoffix left #perl6
18:25 samcv also wtf @the `.?` page
18:25 samcv O.o
18:25 * samcv goes to make some tea
18:25 samcv oh
18:27 samcv for some reason zef is asking for my github username. and password really oddly. idk
18:27 samcv o.O https://gist.github.com/samcv/9e04008e33c6332b00abd36332c91586 it's too early for this i think
18:28 samcv dunno how this happened....
18:28 samcv i entered it right. maybe there's some threading going on sinc ei'm using proc::async to have a timeout of 10 minutes on modules?
18:29 samcv eeks there's a lot o ffaling modules
18:29 Actualeyes joined #perl6
18:30 samcv go here and search for “»» (FAIL”
18:30 samcv :(
18:32 setty1 joined #perl6
18:34 kyclark joined #perl6
18:36 kyclark "$t.lines.grep(/^ '>'/)" will find all lines that start with '>'. How do I invert this to find lines that DO NOT start with ">"?  I see I can use "!*.starts-with('>')" but how can it be done with the regex?
18:37 timotimo $t.lines.grep(none(/^ '>'/)) :P
18:37 gfldex samcv: there are modules that got a source-url that starts with git:// and you don't got a github sshkey locally
18:37 timotimo or /^ <-[>]> /
18:37 samcv gfldex, how do i fix that
18:38 gfldex samcv: you send a PR to the module author :->
18:38 * samcv dies
18:38 gfldex samcv: give me a few minutes
18:39 * samcv compiles a full list of modules that are failing. well partial. but mostly complete
18:40 gfldex samcv: `git config credential.helper 'cache --timeout=86400'`
18:40 samcv i have no credentials on this server
18:41 gfldex samcv: that will cache any loging to github for hours
18:42 kyclark Thanks, timotimo
18:42 gfldex samcv: you can tell git to use https:// instead for git:// by default, but I don't know an easy way to google that
18:42 timotimo yw
18:43 RabidGravy gfldex, I haven't forgotten your PR for META6
18:43 alphah joined #perl6
18:44 gfldex RabidGravy: don't worry, I did :)
18:45 [Coke] .
18:45 yoleaux 16:09Z <Zoffix> [Coke]: my April grant report has been published on blogs.perl.org. You can get it in Markdown format at https://github.com/zoffixznet/IOwesomeness/blob/master/reports/Apr-2017.md
18:46 perlpilot samcv: What gfldex was talking about is: git config --global url.'https://'.insteadOf 'git://'
18:46 perlpilot samcv: I think
18:46 samcv yeah. fine. but. that doesn't solve th module not installing
18:46 samcv i know it's possible to do that. but our users shouldn't have to
18:47 samcv they might not have a github account
18:47 perlpilot indeed
18:47 samcv but at least that means it should be an easier fix to those modules?
18:47 labster joined #perl6
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18:54 gfldex samcv: it is
18:54 samcv is there a way to make line linkable log files. how to easily do this/
18:55 samcv with this long log file i have
18:56 samcv the `XXX` module uses `eval_lives_ok` it says did you mean eval-lives-ok
19:02 samcv ok so the XXX module. has PR fixing this going back to 2015...
19:02 timotimo fantastic
19:02 samcv i mean at what point do we remove them from the ecosystem?
19:02 timotimo we sometimes pull things into perl6-community-modules
19:02 timotimo which is a separate github user iirc?
19:02 samcv yeah. there's 4 PR that fix these things
19:02 samcv it's not a project?
19:03 timotimo not sure
19:03 samcv also it has no license either
19:03 gfldex samcv: perl6 -e 'sub MAIN($lf){ put "<html><body><pre>"; slurp($lf).lines.map({„<a name="line-{$++}"/>$_\n“}).put; put "</pre></body></html>" }' ~/irclogs/freenode/gfldex.log > ~/public_html/foo.html
19:03 timotimo oh yeah it's an org
19:03 timotimo of course it is
19:04 samcv can we do that with modules with no license?
19:04 Cabanossi joined #perl6
19:04 RabidGravy gfldex, I cherry-picked your actual commit from the PR and ignored the revert
19:04 timotimo oh, that's problematic i expect
19:04 samcv yeah...
19:04 timotimo there's also a module somewhere that says "license: free for all"
19:04 gfldex RabidGravy: good
19:04 timotimo which ... yeah, no, sadly it doesn't work that way
19:04 samcv timotimo, that's not a license :(
19:04 samcv T_T
19:04 * samcv grabs the tea that should be ready
19:06 gfldex it's questionalbe to have a module in the ecosystem that don't got a license to start with. We don't got permission to redistribute it's META.info, what we must do to make the ecosystem work.
19:06 * samcv checks and i don't have licenses on some of my modules...
19:07 gfldex there is that line in the ecosystem repo that kind of asks for that permission but since we don't validate the uploader that's not worth anything
19:07 samcv i mean some projects have the metadata under a very permissive license. and the project can be under whatever it wants
19:07 samcv should we have a similar policy for submitting to the ecosystem?
19:08 samcv hm
19:08 samcv gfldex, we need a metadata field in the META.info for the license of the META file itself
19:08 samcv and another one for the project
19:09 gfldex also the module needs to state an author
19:09 gfldex how does CPAN handle these cases?
19:10 * gfldex goes to add --set-license to META6::bin
19:10 samcv gfldex, where is the spec for the META file?
19:10 gfldex samcv: http://design.perl6.org/S22.html
19:11 samcv can we add a metadata-license field?
19:11 samcv and require it for new additions to the module?
19:11 gfldex we should not need that as the author will upload the file to ecosystem/6PAN
19:12 gfldex and by doing to implicitly grants the right to redistribute the module and display any file
19:12 gfldex s/to/so/
19:12 samcv well. if we transition to another cpan system
19:12 samcv we will want that
19:13 gfldex samcv: see bottom of https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/
19:13 samcv i saw it
19:14 samcv i think would be a good idea to do.
19:14 gfldex the ecosystem doesn't check for an author and can't reject submissions (the PR handler should do that actually)
19:14 samcv i know it doesn't
19:14 timotimo oh nice, how long has this been there?
19:14 samcv that's why we should start implementing that for new additions
19:14 samcv because some other projects have rules about metadata
19:15 samcv and it must be a permissive license
19:15 gfldex samcv: it does check for errors http://ecosystem-api.p6c.org/errors.json
19:15 espadrine joined #perl6
19:15 samcv like so https://github.com/samcv/rakudo-appimage/blob/master/org.perl6.rakudo.appdata.xml#L15-L16
19:15 timotimo we can put a piece of text in github that'll be displayed to people who want to make issues, right?
19:15 timotimo would that also work for pullrequests?
19:15 samcv to get appimage xml file data syndicated you need to have a permissive license...
19:15 timotimo can we give them a "[ ] i accept the piece of legal text at the end of the readme" thing?
19:15 samcv so i think we should have the same thing
19:16 samcv we can have that too timotimo but i think the meta itself needs to have it
19:16 samcv because other places may want to distribute the META files. and the license should be inside of it
19:17 samcv yes we can do that for pr timotimo i've done that before
19:17 Geth ¦ ecosystem: gfldex++ created pull request #320: META.info -> META6.json
19:17 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/320
19:17 timotimo OK, yeah, we should probably do that
19:18 eady joined #perl6
19:19 timotimo gfldex: the --set-license thing in META6::bin, will that a) add a LICENSE file, b) set a license field in the meta file, c) set a metadata license field, or - more likely - all three? or only the first two until a metadata license field has been decided upon?
19:20 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 6c4cbe1033 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ (committed by Zoffix Znet) | META.list
19:20 Geth ¦ ecosystem: META.info -> META6.json (#320)
19:20 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/6c4cbe1033
19:22 samcv but even if we think that "somebody has agreed" it's still not very future looking approach. so we need a metadata-license. and we need to enforce it to be one of a certain set of licenses
19:22 samcv that will allow it to be syndicated by other projects and such
19:22 samcv MIT for example. there's a few more, i'll check
19:24 samcv see here https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/chap-Quickstart.html#sect-Quickstart-DesktopApps and scrolldown to Recommended metadata file contents
19:31 gfldex timotimo: it's setting "license": "Some Text" in the META6.info right now. If you start a project with META6::bin it defaults to Artistic License 2.0 right now and copies LICENSE from ~/.meta6/skeleton/LICENSE.
19:31 timotimo mhm
19:31 gfldex the default license name will go into the config
19:32 gfldex what reminds me that I need an elegant way to get they keys out of a multidim Hash (inverse ||@a).
19:33 samcv also artistic 2.0 says you can't make a new module of the same name with the same code right?
19:33 samcv fork it that is
19:34 samcv and call it the same thing even with a different auth?
19:34 gfldex samcv: if you put in on github they demand that you allow folk to hit the fork button
19:34 samcv that's not the same thing
19:35 * gfldex goes to read the bloody license he is using for quite some time …
19:39 gfldex samcv: one could argue that 4b) is fulfilled by any Perl 6 module because it's fully qualified name in a concat of the module name and the author name
19:39 samcv i opened a issue on eco https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/issues/321
19:39 samcv yes
19:39 samcv that may be true too
19:40 samcv and i think as long as the person uses the auth explicitly inside the package then it would be ok
19:41 lizmat joined #perl6
19:41 samcv gonna read the artistic 2.0 myself right now. see if it's a *good* idea to have the metadata be set to that
19:41 gfldex actually you really have to change the name of the module as seen by `use` or you confuse the hell out of yourself.
19:41 samcv what do you think?
19:42 samcv i haven't read it in the context of metadata yet
19:43 gfldex AL 2.0 does allow a change in license as long as it's in the same spirit
19:43 gfldex so it's not bad as a metadata license
19:43 samcv yeah
19:43 samcv question is should it be the prefered metadata license for us or not? debian says it's all good. so that is very promising
19:43 gfldex section 7 and 8 apply too
19:45 gfldex it may be problematic if someone on the ISS would like to use our software
19:45 gfldex "(13) This license includes the non-exclusive, worldwide,"
19:45 samcv X|
19:45 * samcv dies
19:46 samcv it says non-exclusive though
19:46 samcv includes. so that doesn't negate non-worldwide
19:46 samcv artistic license 2.0.1?
19:46 gfldex the "non-exclusive" referes to "patent license"
19:47 gfldex but then, we can't enforce in outerspace anyways
19:47 gfldex :)
19:47 samcv well. it is
19:47 samcv not controlled by any country
19:47 samcv due to treaties
19:47 samcv so that is true
19:48 samcv left #perl6
19:48 samcv joined #perl6
19:48 samcv paging TimToady if you have any input
19:49 Cabanossi joined #perl6
19:49 smls joined #perl6
19:50 smls m: say "ç".encode("utf8").decode("iso-8859-1")
19:50 camelia rakudo-moar b4fa6d: OUTPUT: «Can not decode a utf-8 buffer as if it were iso-8859-1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
19:50 smls ^^ Why not?
19:50 samcv why would you want to
19:51 samcv that's not going to convert between two formats
19:51 smls I know
19:51 samcv but why?
19:51 samcv probably because it's not valid utf-8?
19:51 samcv or valid codepoint values?
19:51 samcv idk.
19:51 smls I want to find out what string in Windows  Codepage encoding produces the same bytes as mu utf8 string
19:51 smls *my
19:51 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
19:52 samcv well code is in src/core/Buf.pm that doesn't let it do that
19:52 samcv in rakudo
19:53 gfldex samcv: you could now `zef upgrade META6::bin; find ~/projects/perl6/lib -name META6.json | xargs -n 1 dirname | xargs -n 1 -I '{}' echo meta6 --set-license="Artistic License 2.0" --base-dir="{}"`
19:53 gfldex samcv: you could now `zef upgrade META6::bin; find ~/projects/perl6/lib -name META6.json | xargs -n 1 dirname | xargs -n 1 -I '{}' meta6 --set-license="Artistic License 2.0" --base-dir="{}"`
19:53 gfldex actually
19:53 smls m: say "ç".encode("utf8").WHAT;
19:53 camelia rakudo-moar b4fa6d: OUTPUT: «(utf8)␤»
19:53 smls m: say "ç".encode("utf8") ~~ Blob;
19:53 camelia rakudo-moar b4fa6d: OUTPUT: «True␤»
19:54 samcv i wonder what happens if we let you override that error
19:55 smls m: say Blob.new( "ç".encode("utf8") ).decode("iso-8859-1");
19:55 camelia rakudo-moar b4fa6d: OUTPUT: «Ã§␤»
19:55 smls Heh, that ^^ seems to work
19:55 samcv heh
19:55 samcv yea
19:56 samcv we could have a :force option idk
19:56 samcv or take out the check and let people do ridiculous things without realizing it
19:57 smls If the restriction is to save people from doing something different than they indend, then the error message should probably be more clear on that (and suggest a work-around)
19:57 smls rather than just sayuing "can not" ... :)
19:57 samcv hmm say "ç".encode("utf8").decode("iso-8859-1", :force)
19:57 samcv i end up with the same character
19:57 samcv maybe it's my terminal? hm
19:58 samcv oh i see
19:58 samcv it doesn't pass through the option
20:02 samcv but also uhm. ok now it works fine
20:05 samcv smls, i added a PR for RFC https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1063 if you want to put some explaination on why this is useful
20:06 samcv though idk maybe we don't want a :force option, but regardless. post something saying how people should be able to change decodings and such
20:25 labster joined #perl6
20:26 gfldex RabidGravy: maybe add to the README.md '$m<support><source> = 'http://github.com/you/somerepo.git'
20:27 skids m: class A { class B { }; method f { ::?CLASS::B.say } }; A.new.f  # I go get my rubber chicken now
20:27 camelia rakudo-moar b4fa6d: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Confused␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3ss A { class B { }; method f { ::?CLASS:7⏏5:B.say } }; A.new.f  # I go get my rubbe␤    expecting any of:␤        colon pair␤»
20:30 skids m: class A { class B { }; method f { ::(::?CLASS.^name ~ "::B").say } }; A.new.f # eh... bet that ain't fast.
20:30 camelia rakudo-moar b4fa6d: OUTPUT: «(B)␤»
20:35 spebern joined #perl6
20:44 jnthn ::?CLASS.WHO<B> probably works as will be faster
20:44 jnthn *and
20:45 skids \o/
20:46 kurahaupo joined #perl6
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20:57 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 6d1ca05594 | (Samantha McVey)++ | PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md
20:57 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Add a Pull Request Template
20:57 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/6d1ca05594
20:57 samcv ok addad a pull request template
20:57 samcv \o/
20:58 AlexDaniel mhm does it have to be so explicit
20:59 samcv idk.
20:59 samcv maybe not
20:59 samcv but we don't have a license field in META yet. which is the better solution
21:00 samcv err a metadata license field
21:00 samcv which would solve the actual problem and not require anything but travis checking to make sure it was there
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21:04 samcv and hopefully will remind people to add a license to their project
21:05 samcv which i need to do actually
21:08 samcv also atm the META spec says to use license url's as the license field. but i think that is not right
21:09 samcv we should use the most widely used tags which are spdx license tags so like "Artistic-2.0" i think is artistics tag. and then under resources we can put a license field
21:16 samcv this is what i just changed my META.info file to: https://github.com/samcv/URL-Find/blob/master/META.info
21:16 samcv seems pretty sane
21:17 [Coke] do we need both license and resource/license?
21:18 samcv no
21:18 Cabanossi joined #perl6
21:19 samcv but if it's not one of the https://spdx.org/licenses/ ones here, then should probably have a resource. but it's def not required imo
21:24 Actualeyes joined #perl6
21:27 gfldex perl6 -e 'use META6::bin :HELPER; for fetch-ecosystem() { say .<name> if !.<license>.defined }' | wc -l
21:27 gfldex 709
21:27 gfldex oh well
21:28 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 382d94d121 | (Samantha McVey)++ | PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md
21:28 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Make the pull request template more inviting and friendly
21:28 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/382d94d121
21:28 gfldex out of 816
21:28 timotimo samcv: is there a typo in "and bigger and better a place"?
21:29 samcv yes.
21:29 timotimo and some - have spaces in front and others not
21:29 samcv yep
21:29 samcv ack. my github markdown preview on atom renders a little differently than github
21:31 mcmillhj joined #perl6
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21:32 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 9c57cd7940 | (Samantha McVey)++ | PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md
21:32 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Grammar and formatting fixes to pull request template
21:32 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/9c57cd7940
21:33 AlexDaniel don't worry… markdown gists, comments and wiki pages on github render differently as well…
21:33 samcv X|
21:34 timotimo oh, just today i saw a problem in github's perl6 syntax highlighting
21:34 timotimo it was like / 'foo//' / and the rest of the file was shown as regex or something
21:34 timotimo any reason to dig it up?
21:37 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 181ec478c1 | (Samantha McVey)++ | PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md
21:37 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Not everbody knows how to use github checkboxes. Be more friendly
21:37 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/181ec478c1
21:37 samcv and just in case. encountered this issue  afew times on learnxinyminutes.com's github. we had checkboxes
21:37 AlexDaniel timotimo: *shrug*. Too many highlighting bugs, only one samcv :(
21:37 samcv and several times peolpe had no clue how the hell to use them
21:37 samcv heh
21:37 samcv you guys can fix them yourself too :P
21:38 samcv i have a contributing.md page that is a tutorial on how the grammars work
21:38 timotimo oh, no, regexes scare me :P
21:38 samcv also i don't know why github ruined all my links https://github.com/perl6/atom-language-perl6
21:38 samcv look at how ugly this is
21:39 timotimo yikes
21:39 samcv and idk how to fix it
21:39 samcv because i didn't change anything
21:40 bjz joined #perl6
21:40 samcv it works perfectly on my atom github markdown preview
21:40 AlexDaniel by the way I see that variables like $ok or $gist are highlighted incorrectly
21:40 samcv well i know it is perfect
21:40 samcv link
21:40 samcv also github sucks
21:41 samcv sometimes it doesn't fully highlight pages and it's not my fault. but link me to where you see this
21:41 AlexDaniel https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/blob/master/Whateverable.pm6#L61 and https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/blob/master/Whateverable.pm6#L341
21:41 samcv yeah that's github sucking. highlights perfectly for me
21:41 samcv sometimes it like misses things
21:42 samcv or maybe that's just how they highlight variables?
21:42 samcv hm actually.
21:43 samcv yeah all those variables highlight identically for me. i checked the tokens
21:44 samcv but i could try changing something maybe. will take a while for github to take effect until it repulls in changes but
21:44 samcv i need to see their stylesheet
21:46 samcv they don't have any tokens for variables in most places and i have no clue why
21:46 samcv they do some postprocessing to reduce the size of the html though and abbreviate things. like our docs have the full token names
21:48 samcv this is maybe what they do AlexDaniel https://gist.github.com/demisx/025698a7b5e314a7a4b5
21:49 samcv i don't even know how i could play around with this other than changing something and waitig hella long time.
21:49 samcv they seem to be discarding certain tokens
21:49 samcv though
21:54 ingy the perl6 repl suggests I use zef ...; which I don't have... and the things I find on the web about zef tell me to use other things I don't have...
21:54 gfldex ingy: you need git and rakudo
21:54 timotimo ingy: point us toward "the things"?
21:55 timotimo zef is totally, whole-heartedly recommended
21:55 mst ingy: rakudo star ships with zef
21:55 ingy okiedoke
21:55 ingy and rakudobrew?
21:55 mst ingy: if you don't have zef, you either have an old star, or you decided to be clever and install things by hand
21:55 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 25f071654a | (Samantha McVey)++ | META.list
21:55 Geth ¦ ecosystem: URL::Find change to META6.json
21:55 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/25f071654a
21:55 timotimo rakudobrew has "build-zef"
21:55 timotimo or "build zef"
21:55 mst ingy: rakudobrew is for people developing rakudo
21:55 timotimo or something
21:55 gfldex ingy: try: `git clone https://github.com/ugexe/zef; cd zef; perl6 -I lib bin/zef --force install .
21:56 ingy I just installed from nom
21:56 Geth ¦ ecosystem: eb27661f94 | (Samantha McVey)++ | PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md
21:56 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Fix link for PR template example to META6.json
21:56 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/eb27661f94
21:57 ingy I can get zef installed. Was just pointing out rude seeming behaviour.
21:57 mst I still don't know what you actually did
21:57 ingy But since I built from nom instead of star, I no longer feel that way
21:57 mst right, yeah, that's the rakudo from scratch approach
21:58 mst as with LFS, you don't get a full distro that way ;)
21:58 ingy I installed perl6, ran perl6, got told about zef, got annoyed...
21:58 ingy noted
21:58 timotimo should we reword the message, then?
21:58 ingy prolly not
21:58 mst also, not having a full installer in core
21:58 mst at least means we'll have different problems to the cpan/cpanplus/etc. fun that perl5's experienced
21:59 ingy ignore the whole ingytrusion
22:01 mcmillhj joined #perl6
22:10 Geth ¦ ecosystem: a3bf0b72c4 | (Samantha McVey)++ | PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md
22:10 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Fix error, license URL's should be listed under support key
22:10 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/a3bf0b72c4
22:16 cdg joined #perl6
22:16 Geth ¦ specs: samcv++ created pull request #120: Update META info for the license section
22:16 Geth ¦ specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/pull/120
22:24 pytuger joined #perl6
22:25 timotimo socket.io claims to be a "realtime" framework, yet there isn't a single issue on their github that asks them to remove this ridiculous claim
22:26 samcv you should make one
22:27 timotimo nah, this is only good for a minute of ranting
22:27 timotimo i don't actually want anybody to feel bad for not knowing what realtime means
22:27 samcv but.
22:27 samcv don't make me submit an issue for you
22:27 timotimo these people are out there making real money without knowing a single solitary thing that any ivy tower elitist would claim is required knowledge
22:27 samcv real money? is that like real time?
22:28 timotimo well, it's real money the same way socket.io is real time
22:28 gfldex it's fiat money, so yes, it's like real time
22:28 timotimo there are no guarantees that they will receive money at all
22:28 samcv obviously they make real money so they must be real time
22:28 samcv have you used socket.io timotimo
22:29 timotimo i have not
22:31 timotimo i wonder how a pullrequest suggesting to put scarequotes around every mention of "real time" would be received
22:31 timotimo probably poorly
22:31 samcv https://loopback.io/doc/en/lb2/Realtime-socket-io.html
22:31 samcv Building a real-time app using socket.io and AngularJS
22:31 * samcv walks off a short plank
22:31 samcv nice timotimo
22:32 timotimo come on, be nice. javascript devs already have to deal with loads of crap thrown their way
22:32 mst samcv: I have
22:33 timotimo i should also be nice
22:33 mst socket.io is a perfectly sensible idea, with an implementation that's 95% crack because of the various olde browsers it supports
22:33 timotimo they are basically taking a bullet for other js devs, eh?
22:35 u-ou why can classes that do roles access the done role's private attributes but not roles that do roles?
22:37 timotimo hm, good question. does deriving from the other role instead help?
22:37 u-ou yeah
22:37 samcv timotimo, is this to omean https://i.imgur.com/C3TCR3a.png
22:37 u-ou if you go role A, role B does A, class C does B
22:37 u-ou is that what you mean?
22:38 samcv did i go too far
22:38 samcv see image i attached at bottom
22:40 timotimo did you also try on node.js if that makes it real-time?
22:40 samcv lol did you see the uploaded picture at bottom of my screenshot
22:40 timotimo u-ou: no, i mean "role B is A"
22:41 u-ou can roles is?
22:41 gfldex left #perl6
22:41 timotimo samcv: well, i hope they can take a joke and just laugh it off
22:41 samcv lol
22:41 timotimo i think so
22:41 gfldex joined #perl6
22:41 u-ou I don't even get what that would mean, for a role to is instead of do
22:41 timotimo m: role B { has $!foo }; role A is B { method test { say $!foo } }; class C does A { }; C.test
22:41 camelia rakudo-moar b4fa6d: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Attribute $!foo not declared in role A␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3ole A is B { method test { say $!foo } }7⏏5; class C does A { }; C.test␤    expecting any of:␤        horizontal whitespace␤      …»
22:41 samcv idk. i'm starting to feel a little bad. but the screenshot is also hilarious to me
22:41 timotimo okay, it doesn't work
22:42 timotimo yes, the screenshot is pretty fantastic
22:42 timotimo please provide a "solution how to fix", too
22:43 timotimo also, is your brain really the OS? i find it hard to properly assign labels like that
22:43 u-ou you're running js on your brain?
22:43 samcv i'm gonna change the screenshot tho
22:43 samcv err i mean
22:43 timotimo oh, you're missing a " before Source in the first part
22:43 samcv the steps to reproduce
22:44 samcv * read definition of realtime computing * use socket.io * see screenshot attached
22:44 Zoffix joined #perl6
22:44 Zoffix FWIW, since I suspect more people will come around asking about it: There's an OSX REPL history bug that made it into release (and thus will be part of Rakudo Star). When starting REPL, it displays a message about failed mkdir '/' and doesn't save history. Most users can probably just ignore the message and move on with their lives, but if they really need saved history they can make a shell alias for REPL
22:44 Zoffix That Saves: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/6a0d212ada41fce7aeca15fa9efcc263
22:45 Zoffix I don't have OSX to test this on, but my educated guess is it works.
22:45 Zoffix left #perl6
22:47 AlexDaniel samcv: this is hilarious XD
22:47 samcv yeah it's pretty great
22:47 timotimo even if it is funny, please don't go "dog-piling" onto their project
22:47 samcv made a few changes AlexDaniel https://i.imgur.com/5gbG8Qp.png i think about ready to submit
22:48 AlexDaniel evidence attached XDD
22:48 samcv lol.
22:49 AlexDaniel the previous title was fine by the way
22:50 AlexDaniel it was exactly how they wrote it
22:50 samcv lol.
22:51 AlexDaniel https://horizon.io/
22:51 samcv ok well iupdated it
22:51 ugexe pr sent to fix http::server::tiny test
22:51 samcv to add a step to the reproduction steps
22:51 samcv issue is here https://github.com/socketio/socket.io/issues/2915
22:54 mcmillhj joined #perl6
22:56 timotimo samcv: don't react to your own bug report with a thumbs up :P
22:57 samcv fine!
22:57 samcv somebody else thumbs up then!
22:57 timotimo someone else already did
23:00 timotimo thanks to atlus turning off screenshots and video clips in persona 5 i can't make a video showing socket.io ripping off its "realtime" mask …
23:01 timotimo it's kinda strange that the issue list shows that bug as "1/2 done" because the "i want to report a bug" box is ticked and the "feature request" box isn't
23:02 kurahaupo joined #perl6
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23:03 samcv lol timotimo
23:03 timotimo what do they even expect from calling their stuff "realtime"?
23:04 timotimo it's not like when you open a websocket you have to wait three days for the post office to deliver a connection invitation?
23:04 samcv idk.....
23:04 samcv it makes no sense
23:04 samcv you don't need realtime for sockets usually either
23:04 timotimo is it just their word for "fast"?
23:04 samcv i think they mean asynchronous?
23:04 samcv that's what it should say
23:04 timotimo i don't think you can actually get realtime guarantees for sockets unless you have full control over the whole network?
23:04 timotimo perhaps "live"?
23:05 timotimo BBIAB
23:05 mcmillhj joined #perl6
23:06 MasterDuke_ you could have a realtime guarantee about how quicklyl you respond to incoming data on a socket, right?
23:07 samcv i search for realtime sockets and get 12.9 million results on google
23:07 samcv realtime sockets -socket.io returns wayyyy les
23:07 samcv only 600k
23:08 samcv https://www.google.com/search?num=100&amp;q=realtime+sockets+-socket.io&amp;oq=realtime+sockets+-socket.io
23:08 samcv timotimo, https://github.com/videlalvaro/gifsockets
23:09 samcv at least they did Real Time (TM)
23:10 AlexDaniel I thought it was for “streaming”
23:10 AlexDaniel but streaming sockets… wtf…
23:13 timotimo yes! gif sockets!
23:13 timotimo i remember that <3
23:14 timotimo you can tell they're a cool project because they wrote it in clojure rather than js
23:17 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
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23:23 kurahaupo joined #perl6
23:26 timotimo masak: i went ahead and made druid pass its tests again :)
23:31 timotimo bisectable6: $_ = <1>; when (3..*) | (* < 1) { say "doh" }
23:31 bisectable6 timotimo, On both starting points (old=2015.12 new=b4fa6d6) the exit code is 0 and the output is identical as well
23:31 bisectable6 timotimo, Output on both points: «doh»
23:31 timotimo i wonder when that happened
23:31 timotimo c: 2015.10 $_ = <1>; when (3..*) | (* < 1) { say "doh" }
23:31 committable6 timotimo, ¦2015.10: «doh»
23:31 timotimo c: 2015.08 $_ = <1>; when (3..*) | (* < 1) { say "doh" }
23:31 committable6 timotimo, ¦2015.08: «Cannot find this revision (did you mean “2016.08”?)»
23:31 timotimo c: 2015.09 $_ = <1>; when (3..*) | (* < 1) { say "doh" }
23:31 committable6 timotimo, ¦2015.09: «»
23:32 timotimo bisectable6: GOOD=2015.09 BAD=2015.10 $_ = <1>; when (3..*) | (* < 1) { say "doh" }
23:32 bisectable6 timotimo, Bisecting by output (old=2015.09 new=2015.10) because on both starting points the exit code is 0
23:32 bisectable6 timotimo, bisect log: https://gist.github.com/fc27be678e79ed25834468172dcdba46
23:32 bisectable6 timotimo, (2015-10-22) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/582661f3c083afd78ca3de884116374fd01424bc
23:34 cpage_ joined #perl6
23:48 timotimo masak: now you can even run the cli, but it doesn't show the 3d view yet
23:48 Cabanossi joined #perl6
23:50 labster joined #perl6
23:54 mcmillhj joined #perl6
23:56 timotimo masak: the 3d view works again \o/

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