Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-05-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:00 timotimo hm, it could be that's from the innards of NativeCall actually
00:02 krshn does not seem to be particular to Math::Primesieve
00:02 timotimo can you run rakudo's nativecall tests for me? they're in the rakudo star source folder under t/nativecall, should be
00:02 krshn Tried installing ABC
00:02 krshn https://gist.github.com/skrisna/1872530985fec5c48faca1c890d8accf
00:03 timotimo that's a different explosion, hmm.
00:04 krshn Don't see it
00:04 krshn https://gist.github.com/skrisna/db58ca49d5f7277a968678e597a5d527
00:04 timotimo well, with the primesieve the tests explode, but with ABC it fails to fetch the git repo
00:04 timotimo oh
00:04 timotimo don't see *that*
00:05 timotimo is there a t folder in there at all?
00:05 krshn No
00:05 timotimo what kind of stuff is in there?
00:05 timotimo oh, wait, the rakudo star for mac is precompiled and probably doesn't come with source at all
00:06 krshn https://gist.github.com/skrisna/675382b75a1242508eba213a4f6a6255
00:06 timotimo ah, yeah, no sources at all
00:08 krshn I need to leave now. But I will follow-up later tonight
00:08 timotimo i'm going to bed soon, though
00:09 BenGoldberg I've got a silly question:
00:09 BenGoldberg m: 42.^add_method( 'woot', sub (Int) { say 'ok' } ); 42.woot;
00:09 camelia rakudo-moar 6409ee: OUTPUT: «ok␤»
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00:10 BenGoldberg Will it always be ok to use an ordinary 'sub' there?
00:10 BenGoldberg Or will things ever change such that add_method's second argument must be of type Method?
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00:43 lookatme morning o/..
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01:24 BenGoldberg m: my class Foo { }; my class Bar hides Foo { }; say Metamodel::Primitives.rebless(Foo.new, Bar);
01:24 camelia rakudo-moar 6409ee: OUTPUT: «Bar.new␤»
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01:25 * BenGoldberg has just discovered that perl6 *does* have something like perl5's bless ^
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01:50 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:44 BenGoldberg m: sub foo(-->"x") {}; sub bar(Int) { }; bar(foo) if False;
02:44 camelia rakudo-moar 6409ee: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling bar(Str) will never work with declared signature (Int)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub foo(-->"x") {}; sub bar(Int) { }; 7⏏5bar(foo) if False;␤»
02:44 BenGoldberg m: sub foo(-->Int) {"x"}; sub bar(Int) { }; bar(foo) if False;
02:44 camelia rakudo-moar 6409ee: ( no output )
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03:36 grondilu /j lichess
03:36 grondilu oops
03:37 lookatme o?
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03:41 geekosaur spot the irssi user >.>
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03:45 grondilu well, I'm sure there are plenty other IRC client that use that syntax
03:45 grondilu though I am indeed using irssi
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04:01 TEttinger Floe has /j work as well
04:03 grondilu I'm not sure but I think that syntax is part of the IRC protocol itself
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04:27 geekosaur not actually, no
04:28 geekosaur well, let me qualify that a bit. there is an access control feature to tell the server you want access to something, and it grants or denies it and if it is granted you start receiving things related to it
04:29 geekosaur but /join is also *in clients* related to what you are seeing at the moment, and that level is not covered by protocol; every IRC message in either direction is tagged with the sender/recipient
04:29 geekosaur so it operates on two levels. also the IRC wire protocol differs in a number of respects from the one clients give you
04:30 geekosaur as to the command itself, I can use / but also have GUI-ish ways to do it
04:30 geekosaur er I can use /j
04:30 geekosaur irssi's just the most common client where /j is the primary user interface to it :)
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07:02 rubystallion I find it often hard to work with lazy sequences. Is there a way to turn lazyness off at first so I can get my script running correctly and then turn it on again?
07:04 rubystallion Also is there an elegant way to non-destructively return an array except at index $i? I currently first copy the array and then splice the new array.
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07:15 lookatme What'
07:15 lookatme What's wrong with lazy sequence ?
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07:21 rubystallion lookatme: lazy sequences can only iterate once, so when I accidentally access a sequence twice, I will get runtime errors
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07:29 lookatme rubystallion, How about a lazy List/Array ?
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07:36 rubystallion lookatme: I basically want to avoid sequences. I don't need laziness, I'm just looping through file lines or using gather/take, which creates lazy sequences
07:41 lookatme rubystallion, But using gather/take will not create a lazy sequence if you don't add lazy
07:51 tyil if I have a multi sub, one with (Str $option, Any $value) and one with (Str $option, Bool $value), will it always use the second one when given a Bool?
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07:52 lookatme Yeah, I think
07:52 lookatme so
07:53 lizmat that's the idea
07:53 lookatme m: multi sub f(Any) { }; multi sub f(Bool $v) { "CALLME".say; }; f(1.so); f(True);
07:53 camelia rakudo-moar 6409ee: OUTPUT: «CALLME␤CALLME␤»
07:55 lookatme Just like you thought, it will use the best match version
07:55 tyil neat, thanks :D
07:55 tyil I wasnt sure if it was pure coincidence in my code, or intentional behaviour :p
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08:02 lookatme tyil, Em, please check out this https://docs.perl6.org/language/glossary#index-entry-Multi-Dispatch
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08:04 tyil will do
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10:08 Zoffix Well, no one bothered to mention it to rubystallion before they left, but... Just call .cache on your Seq, it'll make it cache it. Many other things cache them, like using indices $seq[42] caches it. I think the issue was the one-shot nature of seqs, not actually their laziness, but if you want to reify everything on stuff just call .elems
10:10 Zoffix m: my @a = ^10; say @a[^Inf .grep: none 3]
10:10 camelia rakudo-moar acb657: OUTPUT: «(0 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9)␤»
10:11 Zoffix And this is one way to non-destructively splice out an el from array. Basically giving it a lazy inf list of indices (so it stops when it reaches end of list) with a none junction that excludes the index you don't want
10:12 Zoffix m: my @a = ^10; say @a[flat ^3, 4..*]
10:12 Zoffix boo
10:13 camelia rakudo-moar acb657: OUTPUT: «(timeout)»
10:13 Zoffix Well, that would've been another but I don't think flat preserves laziness when called in this way
10:13 Zoffix m: my @a = ^10; say @a[|^3, |(4..*)]
10:13 camelia rakudo-moar acb657: OUTPUT: «(0 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9)␤»
10:13 Zoffix m: my @a = ^10; say @a[0, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
10:13 camelia rakudo-moar acb657: OUTPUT: «(0 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9)␤»
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12:46 [Coke] unsurprised to see perlmonks still full of vitriol about six.
12:46 raschipi m: my @foo is default (NaN); @foo[1;4;3;6;8;7] = "batman"; say @foo.perl
12:46 camelia rakudo-moar b92220: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Signatures as constraints on variables not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my @foo is default (NaN)7⏏5; @foo[1;4;3;6;8;7] = "batman"; say @foo␤»
12:46 raschipi m: my @foo is default(NaN); @foo[1;4;3;6;8;7] = "batman"; say @foo.perl
12:46 camelia rakudo-moar b92220: OUTPUT: «Index out of range. Is: 4, should be in 0..0␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
12:47 raschipi m: my @foo;@foo[1;4;3;6;8;7] = "batman"; say @foo.perl
12:47 camelia rakudo-moar b92220: OUTPUT: «[Any, [Any, Any, Any, Any, [Any, Any, Any, [Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, [Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, [Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, "batman"]]]]]]␤»
12:48 raschipi How can I set a default and then have P6 autovivify values?
12:49 jnthn You can't, because the auto-vivification is done via. multi-dispatch on a type object
12:49 raschipi So, no Nanana batman jokes, got it.
12:50 timotimo [Coke]: who poked the hornet's nest this time? :)
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12:50 [Coke] http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=1189896
12:50 jnthn m: my @foo[1;4;3;8] is default(NaN); @foo[0;3;2;7] = 'batman'; say @foo;
12:50 camelia rakudo-moar b92220: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤is default on shaped Array not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my @foo[1;4;3;8] is default(NaN)7⏏5; @foo[0;3;2;7] = 'batman'; say @foo;␤    expecting any of:␤        constraint␤»
12:51 jnthn aww
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13:17 Zoffix So someone quoted me again? :) Sheesh, I should start charging for it.
13:17 timotimo it's almost as if saying something on the internet has to mean something
13:18 Zoffix .tell stmuk_ the blue news bar on perl6.org should probably be updated to latest Rakudo Star news
13:18 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to stmuk_.
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13:20 MasterDuke_ the OP was pretty negative, but the rest of the posts weren't
13:21 raschipi I liked the timeline with the comparisson between Perl5 and Perl6.
13:21 Zoffix Yeah, I won't even bother replying to them. What's the winge even? A large software project isn't magically bugless and uber optimized? :)
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13:22 raschipi Yep, saying a new software project is new shouldn't surprise anyone.
13:23 timotimo i think most people still object to us calling perl6 "new"
13:26 Zoffix FWIW, I think among core devs I'm the most pessimistic about Perl 6's stability yet at this very moment I'm writing web app code I plan to use in money-making production stuff to replace a Perl 5 app that has 123365 lines of code
13:27 Zoffix ZofBot: haters gonna hate.
13:27 stmuk_ "hard things are hard and take a long time for mostly volunteer projects"
13:27 yoleaux 13:18Z <Zoffix> stmuk_: the blue news bar on perl6.org should probably be updated to latest Rakudo Star news
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13:28 cygx o/
13:28 Zoffix \o
13:28 cygx my problem: I need to bundle some files with a module with relative paths that must not change
13:29 cygx can Rakudo and/or zef help me with that?
13:29 Zoffix cygx: and %?RESOURCES isn't good due to changing paths?
13:30 cygx exactly
13:30 Zoffix No idea :/
13:30 Zoffix Why do relative paths must not change?
13:31 cygx I want to bundle libtcc.dll for the revived version of my TinyCC module, including its include directory
13:32 cygx it's kins of a problem if I end up with a flat resource direcroty full of files named <CHECKSUM>.h
13:32 cygx *kind
13:38 timotimo oh but some developers are paid!
13:46 jnthn cygx: I ended up doing a hack like this: https://github.com/jnthn/p6-ssh-libssh/blob/master/lib/SSH/LibSSH/Raw.pm6#L22
13:47 daxim remember when rakudo took half a minute to tally the words in a 30 kilobyte text file?  http://stackoverflow.com/a/3136410/46395
13:49 cygx jnthn: that's one possibility
13:49 cygx alternatively, I misht just stick the stuff into $*VM.config<prefix> (at least on win32)
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13:51 Zoffix daxim: not read all the text there, but I see the user was using `say [+] 1..100000` as a measure and that's terribly flawed because that (now) just calls .sum on Range object. You could do `say [+] 1..99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999` and Perl 6 will give you an answer almost instantly while other langs (like Perl 5) will crash with out of memory
13:52 raschipi m: say [+] 1..99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
13:52 camelia rakudo-moar 87a95f: OUTPUT: «4999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999950000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000␤»
13:57 raschipi That's just for ranges or can it do it for sequences too?
14:01 Zoffix raschipi: just ranges
14:01 Zoffix m: say sum {rand} ... * > .5
14:01 camelia rakudo-moar 87a95f: OUTPUT: «1.12044888125413␤»
14:01 Zoffix m: say sum {rand} ... * > .5
14:01 camelia rakudo-moar 87a95f: OUTPUT: «0.961826126359131␤»
14:01 Zoffix (not all sequences are predictable)
14:03 raschipi When P6 builds arithmetic or geometric series, does it record they were built that way?
14:04 moritz depends on what you mean by "records"
14:04 moritz it's part of the internal state of the series
14:07 raschipi Is there a way to retrieve that information? I'm thinking of a module that automatically gets the sequence from the series if possible.
14:07 raschipi ops, other way around, get's the series from the sequence.
14:08 jnthn It's not reachable from the outside, afaik.
14:08 jnthn otoh, you could override the ... operator :-)
14:08 jnthn And export the overload from your module
14:08 jnthn Then at least you'd have the original sequence values to work with
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14:09 jnthn (Though would have to re-do the inference logic yourself then...)
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14:10 raschipi It could also sum infinite series when possible then.
14:10 timotimo perhaps it'd be enough to wrap infix:<...>
14:10 timotimo that's "nice" and manipulative
14:10 timotimo program-wide, i mean
14:11 krshn hi
14:12 raschipi oi
14:12 krshn timotimo: did you get a chance to look at the zef issue from yesterday?
14:13 timotimo sorry, i didn't
14:14 Zoffix Well, I ended up repsonding to that monger thread: http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=1190064
14:14 Zoffix Mostly 'cause I see it's in the thread about moritz++'s book :)
14:16 timotimo good reply
14:18 Geth ¦ perl6.org: cf164c0059 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/index.html
14:18 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Update news
14:18 Geth ¦ perl6.org:
14:18 Geth ¦ perl6.org: - The April changes are now in the past
14:18 Geth ¦ perl6.org: - We got new Star; put it in the news
14:18 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/cf164c0059
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14:22 moritz aye, upvoted
14:23 Geth ¦ ecosystem: CurtTilmes++ created pull request #339: Add LibCurl to ecosystem
14:23 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/pull/339
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14:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: b72e4e8d79 | (Curt Tilmes)++ | META.list
14:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Add LibCurl to ecosystem
14:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
14:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: See https://github.com/CurtTilmes/perl6-libcurl
14:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/b72e4e8d79
14:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 77e254863f | (Curt Tilmes)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
14:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Merge pull request #339 from CurtTilmes/master
14:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
14:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Add LibCurl to ecosystem
14:27 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/77e254863f
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14:30 curt_ LibCurl is a significantly different approach to libcurl from Net::Curl already released -- please check it out!
14:31 moritz provided by LibCurt? :-)
14:31 curt_ :)
14:31 curt_ I'm really getting into NativeCall -- it is awesome!
14:32 raschipi And it's not even finished yet.
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14:58 raiph m: module Foo { enum Mode is export < album auto ... >; sub bar ( Mode $mode ) is export { } }; import Foo; bar album; bar not-gonna-work
14:58 camelia rakudo-moar 87a95f: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    not-gonna-work used at line 1␤␤»
14:58 Geth ¦ perl6.org: 29fee590b3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | fetch-recent-blog-posts.pl
14:58 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Update blog fetcher for latest Mojolicious
14:58 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/29fee590b3
15:00 raiph .tell tyil Just a fyi but you could make a Mode error a compile-time error (though with an arguably poorer message); see https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-05-11#i_14566571
15:00 yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to tyil.
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15:09 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 13a29c9a14 | (Curt Tilmes)++ | META.list
15:09 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Add Redis::Async to ecosystem
15:09 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
15:09 Geth ¦ ecosystem: See https://github.com/CurtTilmes/perl6-eredis
15:09 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/13a29c9a14
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15:42 cygx I've decided to just copy the files into wherever Rakudo is installed
15:43 cygx after `zef install TinyCC::Resources::Win64`, using the packages compiler should be as easy as `perl6 -MTinyCC::Win64`
15:43 cygx for people interested in the current state of affairs, the example code works: https://github.com/cygx/p6-tinycc/blob/master/example.p6
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15:50 timotimo once we've got a pure-perl6 C compiler, some modules will become a bunch easier to distribute :)
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15:54 zostay how do you convert a Hash to a completely immutable Map, such that the values are immutable too?
15:54 zostay it doesn't seem to be quite as straightforward as it is for Arrays to Lists
15:54 zostay or i'm doing something dumb
15:54 cygx bye o/
15:55 timotimo m: my %foo = a => 10, b => 20, c => 30; my $map = %foo.Map; $map<a> = 99
15:55 camelia rakudo-moar 788e6d: OUTPUT: «Cannot modify an immutable Int␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
15:55 timotimo zostay: are you assigning the map to a % variable?
15:56 zostay m: my $one = 1; my %foo = a => $one; my %map := %foo.Map; %map<a> = 99;
15:56 camelia rakudo-moar 788e6d: OUTPUT: «Cannot modify an immutable Int␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
15:59 zostay m: my $one = 1; Map.new('a', $one)<a> = 99;
15:59 camelia rakudo-moar 788e6d: ( no output )
15:59 zostay m: my $one = 1; say Map.new('a', $one)<a> = 99;
15:59 camelia rakudo-moar 788e6d: OUTPUT: «99␤»
15:59 zostay that's basically what i was trying, looks like .Map is better for my needs then
15:59 timotimo seems so
15:59 zostay well... maybe
16:00 zostay we'll try it and see
16:05 mcafee How does one convert a string into a regex?
16:06 zostay m: my $s = 'string'; my $rx = rx/$s/;
16:06 timotimo use <$the-string>
16:06 camelia rakudo-moar 788e6d: ( no output )
16:06 timotimo what zostay just wrote will only match the literal contents of the string
16:07 timotimo m: my $s = 'abc.*'; my $rx = rx/<$s>/; say "hello abc foobar" ~~ $rx
16:07 camelia rakudo-moar 788e6d: OUTPUT: «「abc foobar」␤»
16:09 mcafee Nice, thanks!
16:09 lizmat m: my %h = a => 42; my $m = %h.Map; dd $m; $m<a> = 42   # zostay: .Map should do the trick, really
16:09 camelia rakudo-moar 788e6d: OUTPUT: «Map $m = Map.new((:a(42)))␤Cannot modify an immutable Int␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
16:09 zostay m: sub evil { say 'do evil' }; my $s = '{evil()}'; my $rx = rx/<$s>/; "adsf" ~~ $rx;
16:09 camelia rakudo-moar 788e6d: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /home/camelia/EVAL_0␤Prohibited regex interpolation (use the MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL pragma to override this error,␤but only if you're VERY sure your data contains no injection attacks)␤at /home/camelia/EVAL_0:1…»
16:10 mcafee Is it possible to parse a string as a Perl 5 regex, as if using m:p5?  rx:p5 seems not to work.
16:11 mcafee Actually neither does m:p5 now that I try it again.  I seem to remember it was possible somehow though...
16:12 timotimo perhaps it has to be P5
16:13 mcafee Aha, indeed, thanks.
16:13 * timotimo AFK
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16:29 mcafee Hmm, but that construct appears to just keep a reference to the string around, so map { rx/<$_>/ }, <a b c> just gives a list of three identical $_-referencing regexes, not three distinct ones.
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16:37 zostay the will each close the respective values of $_, though, so it should be doing what you mean
16:37 kurahaupo__ joined #perl6
16:37 Geth ¦ doc: fb29e049c3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/IO/Path.pod6
16:37 Geth ¦ doc: [io grant] Include exception used in IO::Path.resolve
16:37 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fb29e049c3
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16:39 zostay my @x = <a b c>.map({ rx/<$_> {say $_} }); for @x -> $rx { "test" ~~ $rx }
16:39 zostay m: my @x = <a b c>.map({ rx/<$_> {say $_} }); for @x -> $rx { "test" ~~ $rx }
16:39 camelia rakudo-moar 3fb3c2: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Couldn't find terminator / (corresponding / was at line 1)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my @x = <a b c>.map({ rx/<$_> {say $_} 7⏏5}); for @x -> $rx { "test" ~~ $rx }␤    expecting any of:␤        /␤»
16:39 zostay dur
16:39 zostay m: my @x = <a b c>.map({ rx/<$_> {say $_}/ }); for @x -> $rx { "test" ~~ $rx }
16:39 camelia rakudo-moar 3fb3c2: ( no output )
16:44 zostay m: my @x = <a b c >.map({ regex { <$_> {.say} } }); for @x -> $rx { "abc" ~~ $rx }
16:44 camelia rakudo-moar 3fb3c2: OUTPUT: «a␤b␤c␤»
16:44 zostay m: my @x = <a b c >.map({ rx{ <$_> {.say} } }); for @x -> $rx { "abc" ~~ $rx }
16:44 camelia rakudo-moar 3fb3c2: OUTPUT: «c␤c␤c␤»
16:44 zostay so, maybe you want regex {} instead
16:45 zostay that the .say closes on c, is kind a weird though
16:45 mcafee It's not really parsing a string into a regex per se: my $s = 'foo'; my $r = rx/<$s>/; $s = 'bar'; 'foo' ~~ $r --> (Any)
16:46 mcafee Isn't that possible at all?  And for a golfing challenge I'm working on, I'd like to parse a regex from a whatever star, but /<*>/ predictably doesn't work.
16:50 zostay m: my @x = <a b c >.map({ rx{ <$_> {.say} } }); for @x -> $rx { $_ = "d"; "abc" ~~ $rx }
16:50 camelia rakudo-moar 3fb3c2: OUTPUT: «c␤c␤c␤»
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16:51 Zoffix If my module is using $*PERL in the mainline. How can I fake it in tests?
16:52 moritz my setting $*PERL before loading (with require)?
16:52 Zoffix with require.. hm
16:55 Zoffix Thanks. `require` did the trick.
16:55 moritz \o/
16:55 Zoffix I was trying to set it and then `use` a module; all inside a BEGIN block and it wouldn't take it
16:58 moritz that doesn't work, because if you do BEGIN { my $*PERL = 'foo'; use Bla; }, the BEGIN block again as a runtime and a compile time
16:58 moritz and the "use" is executed at compile time, so before the assignment
16:58 Actualeyes left #perl6
16:58 moritz you could try    BEGIN my $*PERL = 'foo'; use Bla;
16:59 Zoffix I think I tried that too, but eh, require suits my purpose. Thanks
16:59 Zoffix left #perl6
16:59 moritz ... and hope that the BEGIN correctly doesn't introduce a scope (but I wouldn't bet on it)
17:04 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 49bf462822 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
17:04 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Add Augment::IO::Path::ChildSecure to ecosystem
17:04 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
17:04 Geth ¦ ecosystem: "Augment IO::Path to provide secure version of .child"
17:04 Geth ¦ ecosystem: See: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Augment-IO-Path-ChildSecure
17:04 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/49bf462822
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17:28 jbolden1517 Hi.  Question for you all.  There is a rather cool tutorial https://docs.perl6.org/language/haskell-to-p6
17:28 jbolden1517 Is there a wiki editable version of this.  Figure I'd like to finish the missing parts and perhaps extend it a bit to implement some of the classic Haskell tutorials in p6
17:29 gfldex jbolden1517: see https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
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17:32 Zoffix jbolden1517: no wiki, but the closest approximation would be to use GitHub editor to edit this page: https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/doc/Language/haskell-to-p6.pod6
17:33 Zoffix jbolden1517: you got GitHub account? What's your username. I can give you a commit bit
17:33 Zoffix TIL we have a Haskel to Perl 6 tut :o
17:33 jbolden1517 No I don't but I can create one easily enough
17:33 Zoffix jbolden1517: ok, create one :)
17:33 jbolden1517 Yes.  I was commenting there are missing sections
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17:36 Zoffix This is quite a wall of text https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md  Makes me think more of this idea (click-n-edit thing): https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1212
17:36 raschipi joined #perl6
17:38 jbolden1517 OK guess I did have one.  jbolden1517 is the user name
17:39 jbolden1517 Anyway my other idea was to write a Haskell -> Perl6 tutorial with more of a Haskell feel to it.
17:40 jbolden1517 Haskell documentation tends to be organized: computer science concept -> theoretical implementation -> example code -> practical implementation explination
17:40 Geth ¦ doc: e0f512a62c | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | CONTRIBUTING.md
17:40 Geth ¦ doc: Delete `Website styles` section
17:40 Geth ¦ doc:
17:40 Geth ¦ doc: - Styles are now autobuilt and there's not /html/css/style.css
17:40 Geth ¦ doc:  - Shorten giant contributor doc
17:40 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e0f512a62c
17:40 Zoffix jbolden1517: sent you an invite
17:41 gfldex jbolden1517: that would be very welcome. Please leave lizmat a note when you are done so she can add it to the Perl 6 weekly.
17:42 jbolden1517 I was thinking that might be neat to do for perl6.  There is enough interesting stuff in 6 (from what I see, very new though did Perl4/Perl5 back in the 1990s) to do that sort of thing for Perl 6.
17:43 raschipi jbolden1517: Do you have the map between computer science concepts and Perl6 concepts already?
17:43 jbolden1517 My idea is sort of like translating: https://www.willamette.edu/~fruehr/haskell/evolution.html  (which is really about theory of computation) to Perl6
17:43 raschipi It might not be clean in Perl6, we're a diagonal language.
17:43 jbolden1517 Yeah that's easy.  You all are just taking classic Lisp concepts and implementing a dynamic version of them.
17:44 Zoffix jbolden1517: here's the docs for POD6, the language the docs are written in: https://docs.perl6.org/language/pod
17:44 jbolden1517 Sort of a Perlified version of ideas that have been around since the 1930s.
17:44 jbolden1517 The implementation is one of the best I've seen but the concepts aren't new
17:44 gfldex we only steal the good stuff :)
17:45 Zoffix And the site is re-built continuously. And you can find the commit it's built off in the footer of any page and build logs are in https://docs.perl6.org/build-log/
17:48 jbolden1517 BTW read the dicussion on the  #1212.  FWIW as a newbie.  Strongly think the click and edit approach is a good one.  You want the barrier to first commit to be as low as possible.
17:48 raschipi It might end up as a multimap instead, we probably have more than one implementation for each mathematical concepts.
17:48 samcv how do i format DateTime object printing? i remember there being a special method or printer
17:48 samcv like you make your own printer and supply it to the datetime and can easily print it how how you wish
17:49 b2gills formatter
17:49 jbolden1517 The way Wikipedia (in the old days) got committers was someone knew a single date, or had a reference for a single point.  Or could write a good paragraph or... (and if this is unsolicited advice I'll shut up now)
17:49 samcv yay
17:49 gfldex samcv: https://docs.perl6.org/type/DateTime#(Dateish)_method_formatter
17:49 samcv yeah i found it thanks
17:50 Zoffix jbolden1517: you could leave that advice on the issue :)
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17:52 raschipi It would go from the functional concepts and when it gets to monads explains the rest of the language?
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18:08 jbolden1517 BTW FWIW zef install Pod::To::HTML and  Pod::To::BigPage are installed by default in Star
18:09 jbolden1517 raschipi Perl is a terrible language for monads.  Which is not to say you couldn't use them in Perl but they would never work right.
18:10 jbolden1517 For a monad to really do its thing everything has to be very strongly typed.
18:10 raschipi This channel has an opinion that monads is just a way to write normal programming in a pure functional language.
18:10 jbolden1517 See for Option monad is Java for an example of why monads suck outside of their native homeland
18:11 jbolden1517 Yeah I get that.  Wadler made that joke in his "Imperative Functional Programming" back in 1989.
18:12 jbolden1517 What I'd say is the same thing he did.  Monads give pure functional programming languages a lousy but tolerable imperative language.
18:12 raschipi Well, that's why I asked that if would explain the rest of the language when you got to monads.
18:12 jbolden1517 With Perl 6 you already have a good imperative language.
18:12 raschipi The best, believe me.
18:12 jbolden1517 No.  I might do some monads in Perl.
18:13 jbolden1517 For example Maybe (Option) in Java would likely work really well in Perl.
18:13 perigrin shouldn't, rather than explaining the rest of the language, you just map to a category where the language is already explained?
18:14 jbolden1517 Sorry I'm losing the question.
18:14 perigrin that's okay ignore me I'm just being goofy.
18:14 raschipi me too
18:14 raschipi thanks
18:15 gfldex jbolden1517: I think they try to tell you to stop writing what you want to write and go write it already. :->
18:15 jbolden1517 I am
18:15 jbolden1517 Just going through you contrib doc
18:15 jbolden1517 Noticed a bug in it and was telling you
18:15 jbolden1517 You all do have like a 20 step process.
18:19 jbolden1517 capnm is the next problem in the contributing doc.  Says what to do if you have it, but not if you don't    Not on fink.  I could build it with CAPN but its been over a decade since I've used CAPN.
18:19 zapwai joined #perl6
18:20 [Coke] (click to edit) we don't have the cycles to manage reviewing and editing un-vetted edits.
18:20 jbolden1517 That's fair.
18:21 jbolden1517 Overhead of managing lots of contributors is a pain.
18:21 [Coke] (it's also not a source page -> web page 1:1 mapping; source ends up in multiple pages)
18:21 b2gills jbolden1517:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Option_type#Perl_6
18:21 [Coke] so, I think it's -possible-, but I'm not sure it's worth the overhead of setting up and maintaining)
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18:23 Geth ¦ doc: 274587ee46 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Date.pod6
18:23 Geth ¦ doc: Document Date.clone takes a :formatter arg
18:23 Geth ¦ doc:
18:23 Geth ¦ doc: Rakudo impl: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a9a161aef4
18:23 Geth ¦ doc: Tests: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f304b9910a
18:23 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/274587ee46
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18:31 jbolden1517 b2gills: That is interesting.  Does it attach to user defined data structures and objects as well?  Then I think it could work.  Just build a lazy list of subroutines and evaluate to first success.  That's a good example of what I was thinking of.
18:33 b2gills m: class Foo {}; say Foo.defined; say Foo.new.defined;
18:33 camelia rakudo-moar a9a161: OUTPUT: «False␤True␤»
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18:38 jbolden1517 Yep that works!  State has always worked fine with Perl.  err was based on Either.  Eval is probably more of a Moab integration.
18:38 jbolden1517 Hmm.  Interesting sounds like Perl6 already has them.
18:40 jbolden1517 Wow then you really should have a page on corecursion and anamorphisms in perl6
18:42 jbolden1517 You have out of the box deforestation.  A hadoop back end and you have big data parallelism out of the box!  Consider me very impressed.
18:45 MasterDuke_ huh, and here i thought deforestation was a bad thing...
18:45 MasterDuke_ guess Perl 6 isn't going to power Greenpeace's website anytime soon
18:46 MasterDuke_ jbolden1517: the above was a not very clever way of asking what you mean by "deforestation"?
18:47 gfldex m: my @a = { False }, { True }; dd @a; say @a.first({$_.()});
18:47 camelia rakudo-moar a9a161: OUTPUT: «Array @a = [-> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|52082160) ... }, -> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|52082232) ... }]␤-> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|52082232) ... }␤»
18:47 gfldex m: my @a = { False }, { True }; dd @a; say @a.first(*.());
18:47 camelia rakudo-moar a9a161: OUTPUT: «Array @a = [-> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|67651528) ... }, -> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|67651600) ... }]␤No such method 'CALL-ME' for invocant of type 'Whatever'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
18:49 jbolden1517 Oh deforstation is a traversal technique for data structures
18:50 jbolden1517 Essentially it turns a lot of exponential time algorithms into linear time algorithms.  It can be automatically applied if you have corecursion that works
18:51 jbolden1517 Essentially most complex algorithms  look like: take simple data -> make more complex data -> do something to that complex data to produce simple data
18:52 jbolden1517 For example "find all accounts with a balance over $1000 in Pennsylvania and check against these 20 criteria to determine if we should try to sell them an account upgrade"
18:53 jbolden1517 Starts with a simple criteria (accounts with a balance over $1000) performs  (expand simple data to complex data with those criteria) then compress that back to a simple list of accounts
18:54 jbolden1517 Written naively this ends up being an exponential algorithm on accounts.  For example typically in SQL you would perform a bunch of joins and get back a huge table of those 20 criteria.
18:55 jbolden1517 But obviously this algorithm can be done one account at a time.  there is no need for the global table you just need each row.  Which means it can fork against CPUs.
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18:55 jbolden1517 Each node can do part of the work and then combine at the end (a map reduce)
18:57 jbolden1517 That's what hadoop does.  But if Maybe / Option monad works then Perl6 can rewrite naively written code automatically to run in parallel.  The algorithms for this transformation are really simple.
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18:58 jbolden1517 So I'm suddenly very excited.  This is the sort of thing you could never do with Perl5 code
18:59 jbolden1517 It works in Haskell because Haskell doesn't let you do the sorts of things that would screw it up.
18:59 jbolden1517 Did that help?
18:59 jbolden1517 https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/10129/how-does-deforestation-remove-trees-from-a-program
18:59 MasterDuke_ it did, thanks
19:01 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 0ff7ad4fcf | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
19:01 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Replace Augment::IO::Path::ChildSecure...
19:01 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
19:01 Geth ¦ ecosystem: ...with IO::Path::ChildSecure:
19:01 Geth ¦ ecosystem: "Secure version of IO::Path.child": https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-IO-Path-ChildSecure
19:01 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
19:01 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Gone off the idea of it being an augment. The globality of it is gross
19:01 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/0ff7ad4fcf
19:09 jbolden1517 Anyway Coke offer stands if there ever gets to be an easier way.  And Perigrin.  That category joke was pretty funny.  Sorry at the time I was distracted trying to figure out details of Zef.  You deserved more appreciation for it.
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19:15 raschipi Oh yeah, I didn't see it. Link the section on monads to https://docs.perl6.org/language/syntax
19:15 raschipi It seems we're ahead of schedule, making the impossible easy.
19:17 samcv are anyone know if there's any issues on windows where shell needs to be used and run cannot
19:17 samcv due to path issues. launching another perl 6 process. it should be fine to substitute run for shell right?
19:17 samcv i know it works on linux. wasn't sure why this module i'm gonna PR uses shell, could have just been overlooked idk
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19:19 samcv oh wait. windows doesn't even have shell piping which this used
19:19 samcv so there shoudn't be any issues if anything this will more likely work
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19:30 Geth ¦ doc: 72ea634915 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Str.pod6
19:30 Geth ¦ doc: Fix a couple of copy paste errors
19:30 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/72ea634915
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19:38 geekosaur er? the windows nt lineage has ~always had true pipes
19:38 geekosaur (possibly 3.1 didn't; 3.5 did)
19:38 geekosaur it was the DOS-based ones that had to fake it
19:39 samcv geekosaur, does it have same semantics?
19:39 geekosaur mind, the API is a bit of a bear, so it's usually easier to go through CMD...
19:40 geekosaur fairly similar
19:40 geekosaur well, instead of being anonymous like pipe(2) on Unix you always have named pipes in a virtual filesystem
19:41 geekosaur which is how you plumb them
19:42 geekosaur (this actually gives you a bit more flexibility, plus avoids many of the edge cases with named pipes/fifos on unix)
19:45 geekosaur um. what the heck did I just do to hexchat/...
19:45 TEttinger joined #perl6
19:45 geekosaur anyway I admit I am not an expert on this (or much of anything Windows) but at the shell/cmd level it seems similar enough
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19:57 Geth ¦ doc: 69296f211b | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Str.pod6
19:57 Geth ¦ doc: Fix incorrect split example result
19:57 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/69296f211b
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20:20 perigrin jbolden1517: thanks :)
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20:36 tyil / 5
20:36 yoleaux 15:00Z <raiph> tyil: Just a fyi but you could make a Mode error a compile-time error (though with an arguably poorer message); see https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-05-11#i_14566571
20:36 tyil woops
20:36 tyil also, thanks raiph :>
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20:52 azawawi hi
20:52 raschipi hello
20:52 lostinfog joined #perl6
20:53 tyil o/
20:53 raschipi bye
20:53 timotimo heyo azawawi
20:55 azawawi timotimo: made some progress in libcaca :)
20:56 timotimo cool! i have not continued work on libsixel :(
20:57 azawawi hmmm http://pasteboard.co/ seems to be down. Any other image pastebin suggestions?
20:58 timotimo i usually use imgur, but that sometimes goes "over capacity"
20:58 timotimo and it's a bit more like a community thing than a pure paste-images-to-put-into-IM-or-chatroom thing
20:58 tyil azawawi: uguu.se
20:58 tyil does any file, really, but works for images
20:59 tyil you can curl to it and get an url back
20:59 azawawi cool
20:59 azawawi thx
21:00 timotimo the xfce screenshooter tool also has zimagez support built-in
21:00 tyil there is also a number of pomf.se clones that should allow the same
21:00 azawawi https://a.uguu.se/Xn4MoafJQUjm.png # More 3D ASCii art with Terminal::Caca :)
21:01 timotimo you're doing perspective computation all with pure math, yeah?
21:02 azawawi https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-terminal-caca/blob/master/examples/06-icosphere.pl6
21:02 azawawi my 3D math is rusty but im improving it :)
21:02 timotimo uh huh
21:02 timotimo i didn't do 3d math myself yet
21:03 timotimo only what opengl offers you, like glRotatef and friends
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21:18 azawawi timotimo: next stop https://github.com/nosir/obelisk.js port :)
21:19 * azawawi installs Peek to record an animated gif :)
21:21 timotimo peek is all right
21:25 azawawi https://a.uguu.se/NSO2pzcTbn13.gif  # Icosphere v2 :)
21:26 timotimo oh that's kinda slow :(
21:27 azawawi gif file download is slow
21:27 azawawi wait for it :)
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21:28 azawawi im actually adding a sleep 0.0042 / 2 # :)
21:28 timotimo oooh now it's better
21:29 azawawi What do you think? 3D Perl6 library on top on Terminal::Caca? :)
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21:30 azawawi there is a function which i didnt still implement caca_fill_triangle_textured
21:30 samcv cool. ok so i'm doing my grant documentation in pod6
21:30 samcv and having a script that automatically converts to .md and pushes to github's wiki https://github.com/samcv/Unicode-Grant/wiki/All-Unicode-Files
21:30 samcv and i like can between the pages as well
21:31 samcv with L<foo|page-name>
21:31 chee joined #perl6
21:31 azawawi cool
21:31 timotimo azawawi: does libcaca support 256 color and 24bit color?
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21:32 azawawi timotimo: let me check
21:32 timotimo i know only one terminal emulator that has 24bit color support, actually
21:32 timotimo that's Konsole
21:32 samcv does not seem to be rendering deeper embeded =item's though
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21:34 azawawi timotimo: 16 color so far
21:35 timotimo only 16? wow :(
21:38 azawawi well 16 is better than 2 :)
21:39 timotimo eh, sure
21:39 samcv guess i'll just have to fix it i guess :)
21:39 samcv fill all the everything
21:40 timotimo samcv: how many colors? :)
21:41 samcv idk no colors
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21:45 samcv sweet success!
21:47 samcv nice. that worked out way better than i had hoped :)
21:49 timotimo nice
21:49 samcv perfect.
21:55 samcv yay so nested :) https://github.com/samcv/Unicode-Grant/wiki/All-Unicode-Files
21:55 samcv timotimo, should there be a way to make checkboxes with Pod?
21:56 timotimo hmm. well, pod allows you to put whatever new directives you want in
21:56 timotimo just have to support it in the renderer, too, i guess?
21:56 samcv hmm looks like if i did `=item [X]` when i convert to pod it shows up as checkbox
21:56 samcv so that's good enough :)
21:56 timotimo neato.
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22:05 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 3c2ec3fe6c | cygx++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
22:05 Geth ¦ ecosystem: revive TinyCC module
22:05 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/3c2ec3fe6c
22:07 samcv timotimo, you know if i can put variables in a pod link?
22:07 timotimo um, huh?
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22:17 samcv like L<Latest GCB|unicode.org/files/$univer/graphemeclusterbreak.txt>
22:17 samcv i mean they may have a link that goes to the latest. but i was curious it made me think
22:18 timotimo nah, pod won't interpolate variables
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22:30 azawawi timotimo: https://a.uguu.se/BMsYVVlKaQLM.gif  # more colors :)
22:31 azawawi timotimo: http://caca.zoy.org/doxygen/libcaca/group__caca__attributes.html#gac031e1af3a6bce86128bb1a3050550bc
22:32 timotimo did you past the right link there?
22:32 timotimo it still has only the two colors?
22:33 azawawi hmmm give me a second
22:34 azawawi my bad... wrong upload :)  # https://a.uguu.se/YL03CApU2Gzi.gif
22:34 japhdotcom joined #perl6
22:35 azawawi needs now a bit of shading
22:37 timotimo mhhh gouraud shading? :)
22:37 timotimo phong shading?
22:37 timotimo normalmaps!!
22:39 azawawi :)
22:40 timotimo make it reflect an environment! ;)
22:40 azawawi And Camelia flying :)
22:42 timotimo with flapping wings
22:44 azawawi :)
22:50 kurahaupo joined #perl6
22:50 azawawi good night #perl6
22:52 lizmat joined #perl6
22:53 Geth ¦ ecosystem: afd0c8189b | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
22:53 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Add RakudoPrereq to ecosystem
22:53 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
22:53 Geth ¦ ecosystem: "Specify minimum required versions of Rakudo":
22:53 Geth ¦ ecosystem: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-RakudoPrereq
22:53 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/afd0c8189b
22:53 Cabanossi joined #perl6
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23:53 Geth ¦ whateverable: f5459ff7c9 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | Unicodable.p6
23:53 Geth ¦ whateverable: I don't know. Some refactoring and a bug fix maybe?
23:53 Geth ¦ whateverable:
23:53 Geth ¦ whateverable: Unfortunately I have no time machine so I cannot go back and ask
23:53 Geth ¦ whateverable: myself why these changes were made.
23:53 Geth ¦ whateverable:
23:53 Geth ¦ whateverable: It seems that propdump didn't handle weird characters properly, so
23:53 Geth ¦ whateverable: some code was moved to separate subs in order to be reused by propdump.
23:53 Geth ¦ whateverable: review: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/commit/f5459ff7c9
23:57 AlexDaniel how many times did I promise myself not to leave uncommitted changes…

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