Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-06-04

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:20 Herby_ given a file name, whats the best way to remove the extension from the name?
00:20 Herby_ test.txt, script.pl
00:21 Herby_ i have a large amount of files, and they may have multiple '.' throughout the file names
00:23 Herby_ basically i'm trying to print out file names to a textfile, without the extensions on them
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00:31 Alexdaniel m: say ‘hello.tar.gz’.IO.extension(‘’, parts => ^999)
00:31 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «"hello".IO␤»
00:32 Alexdaniel I really don't know
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00:49 Zoffix m: 'foo.bar.ber'.split('.').head.say
00:49 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «foo␤»
00:49 Zoffix Herby_: ^
00:49 Zoffix Just use split
00:50 Herby_ nice! and grab everything except for the last element and join back to get the file name?
00:50 Herby_ for your example i'd want: foo.bar
00:51 Zoffix Herby_: so you want to remove just the last part?
00:51 Herby_ yep. if I have script.pl, story.txt, I'd want to print out: script, story
00:51 Herby_ but the file path might have multiple '.' in them
00:52 Zoffix m: say ~.IO.extension: '' for <script.pl story.txt>
00:52 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «script␤story␤»
00:52 Herby_ :)
00:52 Zoffix Herby_: there are extensive docs for .extension routine: https://docs.perl6.org/routine/extension#(IO::Path)_method_extension
00:52 Zoffix It can handle the first case too, but it's way faster to just use split
00:52 Herby_ gotcha
00:53 Herby_ i was poking through the IO docs, figured there was a way but I didnt see it
00:53 Herby_ i'll give this a shot, thanks!
00:54 Zoffix m: say "foo.tar.gz".IO.extension: '', :parts(^Inf);
00:54 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «Can only use numeric, non-NaN Ranges as :parts␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
00:54 Zoffix boo... how in the world did that slip through like a gazillion tests
00:54 Zoffix m: say "foo.tar.gz".IO.extension: '', :parts(0..Inf);
00:54 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «"foo".IO␤»
00:54 Zoffix :|
00:55 BenGoldberg m: dd ^Inf;
00:55 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9... lazy list)␤»
00:56 BenGoldberg m: (^Inf).perl.say;
00:56 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «0..^Inf␤»
00:56 BenGoldberg m: (0..Inf).perl.say;
00:56 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «0..Inf␤»
00:56 BenGoldberg m: say "foo.tar.gz".IO.extension: '', :parts(0..^Inf);
00:56 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «Can only use numeric, non-NaN Ranges as :parts␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
00:56 BenGoldberg m: say "foo.tar.gz".IO.extension: '', :parts(0^..Inf);
00:56 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «Can only use numeric, non-NaN Ranges as :parts␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
00:58 Zoffix m: dd (^Inf).minmax # <- reason
00:58 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «Failure.new(exception => X::AdHoc.new(payload => "Cannot return minmax on Range with excluded ends"), backtrace => Backtrace.new)␤»
00:59 Zoffix LTA error too; it's only non-int ranges
00:59 raschipi Shouldn't .minmax detect that the ends are ^Inf and just treat them the same as Inf?
01:00 Zoffix nope; it's not the max
01:01 raschipi m: dd (0..Inf).minmax
01:01 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «(0, Inf)␤»
01:01 raschipi m: dd (0..^Inf).minmax
01:01 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «Failure.new(exception => X::AdHoc.new(payload => "Cannot return minmax on Range with excluded ends"), backtrace => Backtrace.new)␤»
01:02 raschipi What's the difference between (0..Inf) and (^Inf)?
01:03 Zoffix raschipi: the former includes Inf, the latter doesn't
01:03 Zoffix ^5 is the same as 0..^5 is the same as 0..4
01:04 raschipi Right, but is there a difference when matching an Integer?
01:05 Zoffix Matching how?
01:08 Zoffix m: say 'foo.bar.ber.meow.moo'.IO.extension: '', :parts(0..^3)
01:08 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «"foo.bar.ber.meow".IO␤»
01:08 Zoffix m: say 'foo.bar.ber.meow.moo'.IO.extension: '', :parts(0..2)
01:08 camelia rakudo-moar 64e898: OUTPUT: «"foo.bar.ber".IO␤»
01:08 Zoffix Another bug :( Zoffix--
01:10 raschipi Since we know there won't be an infinite number of extensions, I don't see why this kink in the interface should be as it is, it should just work...
01:11 Zoffix raschipi: I missed. Which kink?
01:11 raschipi That ^Inf doesn't work.
01:12 Zoffix raschipi: ah, it's just a bug. Any value larger than 2⁶³-1 is treated as 2⁶³-1
01:13 Zoffix I mean, it's a bug above. Normal behaviour is to use 2⁶³-1 as max
01:13 Zoffix Oh, you mean .minmax?
01:13 * Zoffix should probably go to bed :P
01:13 raschipi I see, thanks. But I think minmax should have a way to do this for other similar cases.
01:14 Zoffix You can use .min and .max + .excludes-min and .excludes-max to do the "^Inf is same as 0..Inf" semantics
01:15 raschipi Right, thanks.
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01:37 Herby_ Zoffix: that extension worked like a champ for me and I was able to speed up my script dramatically because of it
01:37 Herby_ thanks :)
01:38 Zoffix cool
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01:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:51 pilne confession: while learning perl5 past basic scripts and per -e stuff, i think i like ruby more, but perl6 still trumps everything else i've ever touched lol.
02:52 araraloren_ ruby is better perl :)
02:56 pilne that's what i enjoy about ruby, i can see where mattz got inspiration from perl, lisp, and smalltalk.
02:56 pilne i just get irked that most the wind in the community is web, and most of that is rails, i'm not a webdev, and i'm not realllllly a rails fan when i do poke at that stuff.
02:57 hobbs I actually find ruby hard specifically because it does borrow so much from perl, but at the same time nothing is the same
02:57 hobbs my brain goes "you can't do that with the @ sign!" and shuts down
02:58 pilne i can survive, and enjoy the challenge of the code side and backend, but my interests are crypto, ai, roguelikes, game engines (logic stuff, not the display stuff).
02:58 pilne heh
02:58 pilne i get something similar when i use python, except it is more like "wait, i can't just do that?"
02:59 pilne no offense to python, it has a lot of good things about it (i feel most languages do have their good, especially if you consider when and why developed).
03:00 hobbs that's what I mean, though, I'm more comfortable in python than ruby because at least python is wholeheartedly different :)
03:01 pilne if i had a stronger perl backround i would probably be the same, but my strongest are python/ruby, followed somewhat distantly by js, haskell, clojure, and racket.
03:01 hobbs yeah, gotcha
03:01 pilne and i know enough java and c++ to stay away when i can (:
03:01 * hobbs got paid to write perl for 10 years
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03:02 araraloren_ yeah, I dont' like python, when you want some common feature, python: "sorry, i can't do that", like `switch case` `do while` .etc
03:02 pilne the funny thing is, i often looked to perlmongers and cpan when i got really stuck in those langages, for at least a conceptual direction to take python/ruby, because the community didn't really care about "a box" when it came to thinking about a problem, it just got done,  period
03:02 raschipi My problem with ruby doesn't have anything to do with the language itself. Their maintenece practices are bad: "just get the last version of this gem, we don't provide any long term support".
03:03 pilne yeah, at least they are pretty hardcore about good testing.
03:04 pilne cpan's methodology is fucking awesome
03:04 raschipi They got that right from Perl.
03:04 pilne yeah, perl makes anyone else's testing look like a lint
03:05 pilne elses'
03:05 pilne it's just not nearly as thurough and easy to ascertain...
03:05 raschipi Documentation too, Perl blows everyone else out too, because CPAN doesn't allow devs to write a front page, it just shows the docs.
03:06 pilne so if you want to tell about the module, it better be doc'd.
03:07 araraloren_ Of course doc is important
03:07 raschipi Compare that to ruby, where you get a very short description.
03:07 pilne i really like it, and i'm damn amazed at how far the community has pushed it, my brain and perl5 just are having a hard time meshing.
03:07 araraloren_ I dont' want check your code, and guess how to do..
03:08 pilne comments are docs are a fallicy IMHO, comments are for a general idea of what is doing what, and anything that is "quirky" compared to idiomatic code.
03:09 raschipi Now that P6 is migrating to CPAN and getting cpan-testers support, I expect they will get awesome too.
03:10 hobbs it's funny, POD is so unstructured compared to what many other languages have... and yet all of those structured documentation formats frequently leave you no good place to put information *other* than method docs, like rationales and tutorials and FAQs and references to similar tools and... :)
03:10 pilne i think cpanimus and zef are the only module tools i've used that run tests when installing a module.
03:10 hobbs so the messiness leads to some nice things
03:11 pilne i tend to do better when trying to learn perl5 if i see the code as a conversation.
03:11 raschipi I don't think POD are expected to be by-method exclusively even, exactly because it ends up as the CPAN front page.
03:11 raschipi *is expected
03:12 hobbs raschipi: oh, definitely not :)
03:12 hobbs POD's main inspiration is clearly man pages
03:12 raschipi man pages is generally way more terse than what usually comes in POD
03:13 geekosaur perl 5's main inspiration is common unix stuff including man pages
03:13 raschipi The closer is GNU info, I think.
03:14 hobbs some man pages are, but looks at the common format... particularly utility manpages, not function ones
03:14 hobbs NAME, SYNOPSIS, DESCRIPTION, OPTIONS, whatever other stuff, SEE ALSO, BUGS... :)
03:14 raschipi The format is close, yes. Especially because it's made to be shown in the exact same way.
03:14 hobbs the GNU folks are off on a whole other tangent
03:16 raschipi I see. Yeah, just less terse.
03:19 raschipi It is also installed as the man page for the module, of course.
03:20 hobbs right
03:20 hobbs and probably it's all because the ur-POD was perldoc perl which is also man perl
03:24 raschipi Section 3pm of the manual.
03:27 raschipi m: "/usr/local/man/man3".IO.dir.grep(/\.3pm/)
03:27 camelia rakudo-moar 90d129: ( no output )
03:27 raschipi m: "/usr/local/man/man3".IO.dir.grep(/\.3pm/).say
03:27 camelia rakudo-moar 90d129: OUTPUT: «()␤»
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04:08 fatguy how do i get exit status from qx ?
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04:19 moritz use run(:out, $command) instead
04:21 raschipi He left
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04:25 raschipi he,'s back
04:26 raschipi fatguy: moritz said: use run(:out, $command) instead
04:26 fatguy moritz: i tested using run, but the exitcode seems not right
04:26 fatguy ya raschipi
04:28 fatguy i tried : my $date= run "date", "x", :out; say $date.exitcode # this return 0, echo $? return 1 because -x option is not valid
04:28 zengargoyle_ seeking p6 unicode wizards... how many diacritics vs latin chars in "ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước"
04:30 geekosaur fatguy, you have to do something with $date.out first
04:30 geekosaur otherwise the process and its pipe are still in limbo and there is no exitcode
04:31 zengargoyle_ that's apparently "antidisestablishmentarianism" in Vietnamese and the larger question is finding the word that uses latin alphabet + diacritics that has the most diacritics. :)
04:31 geekosaur zengargoyle_, keep in mind that (a) unicode gets normalized (b) internal format is graphemes
04:32 geekosaur I think you have to get the .NFC form if you want to poke at diacritics, and then you have to beware that in NFC e.g. á is one codepoint
04:32 zengargoyle_ yes, i was thinking of the .NFD or whatever thing it is that blows them up to codepoints or such.
04:32 geekosaur I don't know if you can match just diacritics easily
04:32 moritz fatguy: you need to close .out before the exit code becomes available, at the very least
04:33 raschipi Can't help with your problem, words in Portuguese have at most two diacritics.
04:35 geekosaur fatguy, note that $date.out is *not* the output. it is an IO::Handle attached to a pipe. and that pipe has to be closed before you can get the exit status.
04:36 zengargoyle_ it's no big deal, just a question i saw on a question asking site where i thought OMG p6 should rock at this (if i can find a corpus or suitable text to check, which i imagine is probably the hardest part).
04:36 geekosaur (that isn;t really ideal but then the ideal requires you have a separate thread processing the output vs. waiting for the command to complete)
04:36 geekosaur zengargoyle_, you probably want to ask samcv about this
04:36 samcv hello
04:37 samcv let me read the scrollback
04:37 zengargoyle_ hehe, summoning is always fun. :)
04:37 fatguy moritz: thanks, i able to get it with $date.out.close.exitcode
04:37 fatguy geekosaur: noted sir !
04:38 samcv ok. NFD will break it down into base characters + extend mark characters at least *if* it exists as a decomposible form. sometimes there is no decomposition. but for latin diacritics usually
04:38 samcv but yes NFD should do what you want
04:38 samcv m: "ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước".NFD.say
04:38 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «NFD:0x<0075 031b 0323 002d 0070 0068 0061 0309 006e 002d 0111 006f 0302 0301 0069 002d 0076 0069 0065 0323 0302 0063 002d 0074 0061 0301 0063 0068 002d 006e 0068 0061 0300 002d 0074 0068 006f 031b 0300 002d 0072 0061 002d 006b 0068 006f 0309 0069 002d 00…»
04:39 samcv :D
04:39 samcv goes from 45-> 61 codepoints if you use the Norm Form decomposition
04:40 zengargoyle_ how do i do the matching for latin?  i tried to grep those for * < 127 and it didn't seem to work out.
04:41 samcv m: "ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước".NFD.list.grep({.uniprop('GCB') eq 'Other' }).say
04:41 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «(117 45 112 104 97 110 45 273 111 105 45 118 105 101 99 45 116 97 99 104 45 110 104 97 45 116 104 111 45 114 97 45 107 104 111 105 45 110 104 97 45 110 117 111 99)␤»
04:41 samcv ok those are all the "normal" characters
04:41 samcv m: "ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước".NFD.list.grep({.uniprop('GCB') eq 'Other' }).chrs.say
04:41 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «u-phan-đoi-viec-tach-nha-tho-ra-khoi-nha-nuoc␤»
04:41 zengargoyle_ nm think i may have thinko'd on my test.
04:41 samcv well normal as far as they are base characters
04:42 samcv though if you used emoji doing that would miss emoji base characters but. i think that's beside what you're doing
04:42 samcv thinko'd?
04:43 zengargoyle_ samcv++ thanks for the insight.
04:43 zengargoyle_ typo'd, thinko'd
04:43 raschipi Then count what changed to know how many had diacritics.
04:43 raschipi u: đ
04:43 samcv yep
04:43 unicodable6 raschipi, U+0111 LATIN SMALL LETTER D WITH STROKE [Ll] (đ)
04:43 zengargoyle_ i had my .grep after a .elems and missied it. :P
04:44 samcv or are you counting diacrititcs or nuumber of characters which have diacritics on them
04:44 samcv characters can have multiple diacritics
04:44 samcv or is that irrelevant for our uses
04:44 samcv zengargoyle_, using GCB will be better than sorting <127 as you can see
04:44 samcv otherwise you'd lose that fancy d
04:44 zengargoyle_ Many languages add diacritics or special characters to the Latin alphabet. What word—a real word, not a made-up one—contains the most such characters?
04:44 samcv đ
04:44 samcv and đ doesnt't decompose
04:45 samcv so i guess you could count that one manually
04:45 zengargoyle_ the question isn't really that specific at the moment...
04:45 samcv :P
04:45 samcv but i see if you're only looking at vietnames
04:45 raschipi 'đ' is to 'd' what 't' is to 'l'
04:46 zengargoyle_ the vietnamese was just the first answer sombody posted.  i don't even know if it's a correct example yet. :)
04:47 samcv m:  my $s = "ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước"; my $s1 = $s.NFD.list.grep({.uniprop('GCB') eq 'Other' }); $s.NFD.elems - $s1.elems + $s1.grep({$_ > 127}).elems.say
04:47 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "+" in expression "- $s1.elems + $s1.grep({$_ > 127}).elems.say" in sink context (line 1)␤1␤»
04:47 samcv m:  my $s = "ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước"; my $s1 = $s.NFD.list.grep({.uniprop('GCB') eq 'Other' }); say $s.NFD.elems - $s1.elems + $s1.grep({$_ > 127}).elems
04:47 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «17␤»
04:48 samcv there you go :)
04:48 samcv that also accounts for things that do not decompose
04:48 samcv GCB=Other that don't decompose that is
04:49 zengargoyle_ sweet.
04:49 samcv i feel proud now heh
04:49 samcv was fun to solve
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04:51 raschipi I remember there was a function that stripped diacritica, but can't remember the name now...
04:51 samcv and that should count the number of diacritics themselves as opposed to the number of characters which have diacritics (which you'd be counting if you did $s.chars.grep({$_> 127}).elems
04:51 samcv raschipi, in perl6?
04:51 raschipi Yeah
04:51 samcv or do you mean ignoremark regex or something
04:52 samcv though that doesn't strip them, but allows you to match them
04:52 raschipi You gave it a charachter with a diacritic and it applied that diacritic to some other character.
04:52 samcv ugh that reminds me. how ignoremark and ignorecase together doesn't always work. eek working on that scares me thinking
04:52 samcv oh
04:52 raschipi Or if you gave it a charachter without a diacritic, it took them away.
04:52 samcv i think i remember something
04:52 samcv i forget what it is though but it sounds familiar
04:53 raschipi That way it can be done without messing with bytes.
04:54 pilne either zoffix's slides or the perl6intro list the "length of a unicode" functions, i recall there being three, but i can't remember their smeggin names atm, the high ABV is catching up quick
04:55 moritz EastAsianWidth or something like that?
04:57 raschipi samemark is the name
04:57 samcv oo yep that's it
04:58 raschipi m: 'a'.samemark('ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước')
04:58 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: ( no output )
04:58 raschipi m: 'a'.samemark('ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước').say
04:58 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «ạ̛␤»
04:59 raschipi Other way around
04:59 samcv it's cool. not sure when i'd use it. but can't hurt having more exciting things :P
04:59 samcv i'm sure it will be really useful for someone somewhere. and save them loads of time
04:59 raschipi m: 'ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước'.samemark('a')
04:59 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: ( no output )
04:59 raschipi m: 'ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước'.samemark('a').say
04:59 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «u-phan-đoi-viec-tach-nha-tho-ra-khoi-nha-nuoc␤»
05:00 samcv 'đ'.samemark('a').say
05:00 samcv m: 'đ'.samemark('a').say
05:00 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «đ␤»
05:00 samcv yeah so if it can't decompose it just keeps it
05:00 raschipi People strip diacritics to filter expletives, for example.
05:00 samcv i wonder... how it works with Prepend characters. since i just added support to MVM recently for that. i bet it may break
05:00 samcv or it could work depending.
05:01 samcv before unicode 9.0, diacritics always came *after* the base character.
05:01 samcv with prepend marks. they throw that outh the window and come before
05:01 samcv in any case. should have something added to roast to test it even if it doesn't work atm
05:01 raschipi That will get the trolls going...
05:02 samcv prepend marks?
05:02 raschipi Yeah.
05:02 raschipi The unicode-haters.
05:02 samcv heh
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05:03 raschipi That think ASCII is good enough for them and everyone else in the world can keep the mess that are locale-specific encodings.
05:03 samcv boring!
05:04 raschipi The other day there was one that said Perl6 should drop Unicode support. I said he should try to convince Larry to not be able to write Chinese and French on the same file.
05:04 samcv i wonder if i should roll ignoremark and case insensitive regex into my grant
05:04 samcv i didn't plan to include it in there. but i think it would achieve many of the things my grant seeks to do
05:05 raschipi I think you must do it.
05:05 samcv even if it takes me a little longer to complete
05:05 samcv yeah i agree
05:05 pilne unicode is the future, ignoring it is the ostrich solution
05:05 samcv dodo?
05:05 raschipi Ask for more money.
05:06 samcv i probably won't. i mean the money is mostly so i can 1. do some of the less fun parts of the unicode retrofit and 2. be able to hold off on getting a job for a while longer and keep working on perl 6
05:07 samcv since i do very much enjoy contributing
05:08 parv samcv++ thanks for your work.
05:08 samcv you're very welcome
05:28 zengargoyle_ yay samcv++ again for good measure. :)
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06:39 TEttinger huh, I'm curious what all that vietnamese text was up there
06:39 TEttinger supporting vietnamese is a win-nguyen
06:43 moritz oh hai. Here's my Perl 6 book decision tree as an image: https://github.com/moritz/perl6book-web/blob/master/decision-tree/v1.png
06:43 moritz feedback welcome
06:43 TEttinger might want a "start here," though it is pretty clear
06:44 moritz (or improvements; the libreoffice source file sits right next to it in the same directory)
06:45 TEttinger which did you write?
06:45 moritz if you can't tell from the chart, that's good :-)
06:45 moritz Fundamentals
06:45 TEttinger oh, that was my guess
06:46 TEttinger practical is something of a weasel word, in wikipedia parlance
06:46 moritz what would you use instead?
06:46 TEttinger it's just none of the others had qualifiers
06:47 TEttinger other than "structured"
06:47 TEttinger I think it's fair
06:47 TEttinger you aren't writing wikipedia, you're writing a book :)
06:47 moritz I wouldn't want to add "constructed examples" to "Perl 6 at a Glance" though :)
06:48 TEttinger practical examples in what fields?
06:48 TEttinger scripts for handling sysadmin tasks?
06:49 TEttinger complex text parsing and handling?
06:49 moritz different fields: sysadmin, data visualization, Unicode research, parsing
06:49 TEttinger I'm not sure how practical unicode research is, since as samcv was saying they can change the rug while you're standing on it, as with prepend marks
06:50 TEttinger they being unicode consortium
06:50 TEttinger but if it's like census data where there's a ton of languages at play, sure
06:51 moritz Unicode research as in "how do I find (about) character XY?"
06:58 parv moritz, both of "Do you know other ..." & "primary goal" rhombii look to be perfectly good starting places but the arrow connecting the two is unidirectional
06:59 parv s/rhombii/rhombi/
07:10 moritz parv: do you think there should be an explicit staring point?
07:12 parv moritz, depends on how formal you want to be. i don't have enough formal comp sc background & have used perl 5 for 10+ years
07:15 moritz https://raw.githubusercontent.com/moritz/perl6book-web/8f79df69504e1b96009b08ea315b40e971d4bcac/decision-tree/v1.png now with an obvious start marker
07:16 parv "Do you know .." could point to "No, learn comp sc" and "No, learn perl 6". "primary goal" could be another starting place, and pointing to "learn comp sc" & "learn perl "
07:17 parv ok, that works too
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07:20 parv moritz, is (would) there (be) a reference book? or, would that be too early due to changes in rakudo?
07:23 raschipi parv: There are rumors that TIMTOWDY is working on a reference book.
07:24 parv "perl 6 at a glance" does it list classes, methods; regex building, etc?
07:24 moritz parv: the closest we come to reference material is doc.perl6.org
07:24 parv raschipi, oh sweet.
07:24 moritz raschipi: more like "programming perl 6"
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07:24 parv thanks moritz.
07:25 moritz I don't see much value in a reference in book format
07:25 sammers hi all
07:25 moritz which print several hundred pages of built-in class and method documentation when it's so much easier to search and look up in electronic form?
07:25 moritz hi sammers
07:25 moritz s/which/why/
07:26 araraloren_ hi
07:26 raschipi o/
07:26 parv ho
07:29 sammers question about the ==> feed behavior, in comparison to the . chaining behavior...
07:29 sammers m: sub foo($a, $b) { "We have: $a" }; "This should be a".&foo("this should be b").say;
07:29 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «We have: This should be a␤»
07:30 sammers chaining assigns the Str to $a, then the Str pass via &foo assigns it to $b
07:30 sammers m: sub foo($a, $b) { "We have: $a" }; "This should be a" ==> foo("this should be b") ==> say();
07:30 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «We have: this should be b␤»
07:31 sammers but the ==> feed operator ignores the piped Str
07:32 sammers some other languages that have this sort of piping assign the value piped to the function to the first parameter
07:32 sammers like the . chaining version
07:32 araraloren In perl6 it's last
07:32 araraloren https://docs.perl6.org/routine/==%3E
07:33 sammers ah
07:33 sammers ok, that works
07:35 sammers does anyone know what the decision was to use a different behavior between the two?
07:37 araraloren I dont' know, if there has a <== it would be work as you expect
07:37 araraloren And it has
07:37 araraloren https://docs.perl6.org/routine/%3C==
07:39 raschipi sammers: Perl6 functions want the data to be manipulated to be on the last parameter, like shell commands
07:40 raschipi The dot uses a special first slot that functions know to treat differently.
07:40 sammers raschipi, that makes perfect sense
07:40 araraloren Oh, but that opereator not what you wanted.
07:41 raschipi multi sub    comb(Str:D   $matcher, Str:D $input, $limit = Inf)
07:41 raschipi multi method comb(Str:D $input:)
07:41 raschipi The method version has : after Str $input
07:42 raschipi That means it's a method that can be called in Str objects
07:43 araraloren Oh, that was compatible to method.
07:43 raschipi So, the first thing to note is that when you use ==>, you're using a different version than when you use .
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07:43 raschipi ==> calls a suroutine that expects the data on the end, . calls a method that expects the data at the start.
07:44 raschipi That's why ==> puts the data at the end and . puts the data at the start.
07:44 raschipi I think languages that put it at the start don't have multiple dispatch like this?
07:47 araraloren .&
07:47 sammers something like elixir for example does the data at start after |>
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07:48 raschipi sammers: Did you knew about multidispatch?
07:48 sammers yeah
07:49 raschipi So, the secret is that they call different versions.
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07:57 sammers raschipi, thanks for explanation, makes sense
08:00 araraloren seems like I misunderstand what you said, sorry :P
08:00 zengargoyle_ .tell samcv diacritic counting went over well. now looking for good word lists.
08:00 yoleaux zengargoyle_: I'll pass your message to samcv.
08:00 samcv :-D
08:00 yoleaux 08:00Z <zengargoyle_> samcv: diacritic counting went over well. now looking for good word lists.
08:01 samcv i'm curious what you find!
08:01 samcv and yes perl 6 is the best language to do this in :-D
08:01 raschipi Because of your work, samcv++
08:02 zengargoyle_ and any p6 peeps who might speak a language with a lot of latin-ish characters and a bunch of funny diacritics who know about a /usr/share/words type of source material....
08:03 zengargoyle_ curious minds want to know. :)
08:03 raschipi I got this link: https://docs.perl6.org/syntax/&amp;?ROUTINE but it returns a 404
08:03 moritz raschipi: which did you get that link from?
08:04 moritz ah, from the search box
08:04 moritz please open an issue: https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#reporting-bugs
08:04 samcv thx raschipi
08:05 samcv that's interesting. we have other links with & and ? that are fine
08:05 samcv pls report :)
08:05 araraloren https://docs.perl6.org/routine/.&amp; also 404
08:06 zengargoyle_ a 22k list of common Vietnamese and a 60k of words from movie subtitles didn't come close to the person who knew 'antidisestablishmentarianism'. :P
08:07 parv WTF?
08:07 parv lol
08:09 * zengargoyle_ would have probably majored in linguistics if i had known there was such a thing when i went of to college.
08:14 raschipi I don't know how to add a label on github issues.
08:14 raschipi https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1358
08:21 raschipi sammers: Have a look at this: https://docs.perl6.org/language/operators#postfix_.&
08:22 sammers raschipi, thanks, that was my first example
08:22 sammers m: sub foo($a, $b) { "We have: $a" }; "This should be a".&foo("this should be b").say;
08:22 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «We have: This should be a␤»
08:23 sammers what does that mean? "Technically this is not an operator, but syntax special-cased in the compiler."?
08:23 raschipi Do you think it should be the last argument in that case?
08:23 sammers I mean, I understand the words, but whas is the impact of that?
08:24 sammers actually, I don't have a preference, I just wish it was consistent between ., .&, ==>, and <==
08:25 sammers three of those are first param, only ==> is last
08:31 araraloren No, <== is last parameter too, but to pass from right to left
08:33 sammers right, but from the sub signature definition perspecive it is also the first parameter.
08:35 sammers in all of those situations, except for ==>, we can create a routine, sub foo($first, $second, ...) and the piping / chaining will behave the same.
08:38 araraloren I have no problem with ==>. It's fine, whether last or first.
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08:45 sammers araraloren, right, not going to lose any sleep over it. understanding the behavior clears it up.
08:46 araraloren yeah, ^_<
08:55 raschipi g'night people
09:07 parv bye
09:43 samcv zengargoyle_, but is that word actually a real word though
09:44 samcv like a Vietnamese person would say it is a word
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09:50 vetmaster hi!
09:51 vetmaster I try to run the Euclidean algorithm, but the error "can't assign an immutable variable" occurs
09:51 vetmaster http://ideone.com/lWJ3ic
09:51 vetmaster if I'd like to reassign a function argument, how can I do this?
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09:57 vetmaster I see a similar bug there https://rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=130855
09:58 samcv vetmaster, you want `is copy`
09:59 samcv sub euclidean (Int $a is copy, Int $b is copy)
09:59 samcv because otherwise you try and assign to the number itself
09:59 samcv if you passed in a variable you could write to it by setting it with ($a is rw)
10:00 samcv but since you are passing in the number itself. it needs is copy, so you are then working with a variable not an immutable number
10:01 vetmaster samcv: thank you, it works!!
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10:38 vetmaster http://ideone.com/X3t1Uj
10:38 vetmaster I want to make a simple grammar to parse a cookie string
10:39 vetmaster but I get an error on the line 8
10:39 vetmaster I want to set a key-value pair
10:39 vetmaster <name>, '=' sign and <content>
10:39 vetmaster but it doesn't work
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10:46 araraloren_ :(
10:55 zengargoyle_ samcv: i have no clue about the veracity of the Vietnamese word.  and i'm not sure about the dashes, i just assume that somebody who could type it (or even cut-n-paste it) has some idea that it's an actual word... :)
10:57 zengargoyle_ Japanese (and i think Chinese) pretty much don't use spaces at all, so what's a word boundry is *much* harder than just splitting on spaces.
10:59 zengargoyle_ so i'm just assuming that's one utterance that carries some meaning that maps as close to a word.  probably should exclude the '-' though.
10:59 vetmaster this doesn't work too http://ideone.com/ansmt2
11:02 jnthn The error says why
11:02 jnthn The , must be quoted
11:02 jnthn ','*
11:02 moritz you probably meant ',' instead of <,>
11:03 jnthn There's a nicer way to write this though
11:04 jnthn Well, depending on exactly what you want to match
11:04 jnthn Instead of the ','* in pair, you can do <pair>* % [','+]
11:04 jnthn Where % means "separated by"
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11:07 vetmaster jnthn: thank you, it works!
11:07 vetmaster http://ideone.com/ansmt2
11:07 vetmaster and yet another question..
11:07 vetmaster '<key> \h* '=' \h* <value>'
11:08 vetmaster is \h* = \h* the nicest solution?
11:08 * zengargoyle_ totally confused because i saw the first link after it was corrected. :)
11:08 timotimo vetmaster: you can also use (\h*) ** 2 % '='   :)
11:08 moritz vetmaster: it's nicer to use a token ws { \h* }, and then use a rule that automatically inserts ws calls where there's whietspace
11:09 moritz timotimo: I find that... slightly more obscure :-)
11:10 vetmaster many thanks :-)
11:18 zengargoyle_ hehe, https://vdict.com/ (Vietnamese - English - French - Chinese Dictionary) barfs on "antidisestablishmentarianism" but i sorta guess that's to be expected. :P
11:22 moritz I've yet to find a DE <-> EN dictionary that contains "Frischdampfschnellschlussschieber" :-)
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11:28 moritz general rant time: templates (like for producing HTML) make quite some assumptions on the data structures passed to them
11:28 moritz so, the're some kind of interface, or API
11:29 moritz and in "regular" programming, we have tools for validating data at interfaces (like, uhm, types and stuff)
11:29 zengargoyle_ google translate to the rescue! Sự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước -> The protest-the-separation-of-church-out-of-state house
11:30 moritz yet most template systems I've seen don't even attempt to provide any kind of tools for formalizing this API
11:30 moritz zengargoyle_: are they protesting *for* or *against* separation of church or state? :-)
11:30 moritz those subtleties get lost in translation so easily
11:30 zengargoyle_ still don't know what "Live steam quick-closing slide" means. :P
11:31 moritz zengargoyle_: more like fresh steam quick-closing valve; part of safety equipment of power plants
11:32 zengargoyle_ heh.
11:32 zengargoyle_ all i got was schnell from many hours of Hogan's Heros
11:32 moritz German has this beautiful capacity to concatenate words nearly endlessly
11:33 zengargoyle_ and the joke only comes at the end.
11:33 moritz like all good jokes :-)
11:43 zengargoyle_ since google handled the Vietnamese translation to a margin of understandability, i'm going to just guess that spaces/dashes separating syllables are a lexical convenience and that is a cromulent Vietnamese 'word'.
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11:46 zengargoyle_ which brings up the horror of actually needing a list of 'words' or trying to parse semantics to find 'word' boundries vs just splitting on spaces which makes the whole question really hard. :)
11:47 zengargoyle_ 'cause i don't grok how many foreign languages work. :P
11:55 huf i wouldnt trust google translate at all
11:55 huf the ridiculous sort of error rate is massive
11:56 huf eg, this seems to produce sensible results, but in fact it's ridiculous nonsense: https://translate.google.com/#auto/en/mert%20mind%20szar%20nyelven%20beszeltek
11:56 huf same: https://translate.google.com/#hu/en/k%C3%B6cs%C3%B6g%20bazmeg
11:57 huf also weird and impossible to trust: https://translate.google.com/#hu/en/vid%C3%A9k%20bazmeg
11:57 huf this is a rather big miss too: https://translate.google.com/#auto/fr/Always%20know%20when%20to%20quit.
11:57 huf this is surreal: https://translate.google.com/#auto/en/m%C3%B3ricka
12:03 * zengargoyle_ started firestorm, oops.
12:05 zengargoyle_ there's a reason why google translate was the *last* thing i checked.  and a reason why i trusted someone who said "X eq Y" and then i thought 'OK, close enough'.
12:06 zengargoyle_ i don't really trust google translate either.
12:06 zengargoyle_ last resort.
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12:13 zengargoyle_ i'd like to know how far off google translate was for your phrases, but i doubt many others would here in the #perl6
12:13 huf zengargoyle_: "shitty language" somehow mysteriously became "soviet language", things like that.
12:14 huf zengargoyle_: a homophobic slur becomes a plain, unthreatening "hey"
12:14 huf and the diminutive for the local variant of the name moritz becomes "dream about", even though the word dream is "álom"
12:15 huf these are just the random gtranslate fails i grepped out of my irc logs :)
12:15 zengargoyle_ ah, could you reasonably understand the translation even if it wasn't exactly correct.
12:16 huf no, the translations make some kind of sense sometimes (not the same sense as the original, mind you) but you dont know how big the error is, so you cant be confident at all
12:18 nine Google translate can also give scarily accurate translations. Down to picking the right words for the scientific field. Since it's based entirely on statistical analysis, I guess it just works much better on longer texts.
12:18 zengargoyle_ i'd guess i could spout some regional slang at translate and have it go horribly wrong.
12:19 zengargoyle_ and i guess i just go for nouns and verbs and try to understand a bit.
12:21 zengargoyle_ "Slackjawed redneck motherf*cker" -> JP -> EN -> "Slack Jockey country grandmother." :P
12:22 nine you typo'ed "motherfucker", no wonder it's not accurate ;)
12:26 * zengargoyle_ is a southern gentleman 40 years removed.
12:35 moritz 14:14 < huf> and the diminutive for the local variant of the name moritz  becomes "dream about", even though the word dream is "álom"
12:35 moritz now I get to call myself a certified dreamer :-)
12:36 zengargoyle_ hehe, it'd totally take 'dream about' too. :)
12:37 moritz huf: btw what language is that, and what's the diminutive?
12:42 huf moritz: hungarian, and as it said in the link, móricka
12:42 huf moritz: also a standard character in many jokes
12:43 huf he's the joker. pistike is the fuckup. :D
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14:13 ajb p6: "ac b" ~~ /\w+ % \s/
14:13 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: ( no output )
14:13 ajb p6: "ac b" ~~ /\w+ % \s/; $/.say
14:13 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «「a」␤»
14:14 ajb p6: "ac b" ~~ /[\w+]+ % \s/; $/.say
14:14 camelia rakudo-moar 3755c0: OUTPUT: «「ac b」␤»
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14:23 moritz https://perl6book.com/new/ now with a bit of CSS
14:24 timotimo moritz: have you considered using flexbox for the individual books?
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14:24 moritz timotimo: I've heard of flexbox as a buzzword, but never learned it
14:24 moritz timotimo: what would it do?
14:25 nadim .seen azawawi
14:25 yoleaux I saw azawawi 27 May 2017 12:50Z in #perl6: <azawawi> jnthn: in Graphics::PLplot im aiming on providing Raw (native) and cooked with sugar API :)
14:25 timotimo moritz: it'd let multiple boxes sit in a row and depending on how much space there is it'd be more or fewer per row
14:26 moritz timotimo: do I have to define a fixed width for that?
14:26 pmurias moritz: you can center stuff without ugly hacks
14:26 nadim sunny Sunday to all, does anyone know where azawawi usually lurks?
14:27 timotimo nope, no fixed width needed
14:29 moritz can I can declare that I want them all to have the same width, without defining the width myself?
14:29 moritz .oO( I guess I should just google it)
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14:31 timotimo hm, that's a good question
14:31 timotimo that might not be possible
14:32 timotimo it could work if you go from "multiple things per row" to "multiple things per column"
14:35 moritz https://perl6book.com/new/
14:35 moritz updated
14:35 moritz how do I get it to wrap?
14:36 mst pay it 50 cents?
14:37 moritz it seems to ignore the flex-wrap: row
14:38 mst I know just enough about CSS to know I have no idea how any of it works, so I'm afraid terribad puns are the only assistance I can offer
14:39 moritz so I figured :)
14:42 moritz ah, it's called "flex-wrap: wrap", not "flex-wrap: row"
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14:42 araraloren_ :(
14:43 moritz chromium++ # the dev tools explained the error to me
14:44 mst araraloren_: do we need to get duct tape for your connection?
14:44 araraloren_ haha, no :)
14:48 moritz https://perl6book.com/new/ updated
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15:13 moritz ... now moved to https://perl6book.com/
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15:35 pmurias the Perl 6 book market seems crowded
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15:48 moritz try creating the same thing for JS or Python :-)
16:13 Herby_ moritz: when is your book's release date?
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16:33 moritz Herby_: I don't have one yet. but if you sign up for the mailing list, I'll inform you when it's out :-)
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16:54 Geth ¦ doc: f62e8604b1 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
16:54 Geth ¦ doc: Fix a couple of typos
16:54 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f62e8604b1
16:59 _cronus hello. I have been following perl6 introduction at http://perl6intro.com/.  In 9.10. Introspection I tried to access $!name from Employee class but got "Attribute $!name not declared in class Employee" but it shows in the output of say $jane.^attributes; It probably is too early for me to ask such questions, but I'm curious about the rationality behind this.
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17:14 jnthn _cronus: Attributes are private to the class, and not visible to subclasses. However, since the attribute also declares an accessor in this case, then self.name or $.name will provide access to it.
17:14 vetmaster is there some module like 'difflib' for python?
17:16 vetmaster as I see, I can use Text::Levenshtein with Inline::Perl5
17:17 _cronus jnthn: thanks.
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19:43 _cronus hello. I've been following the perl introduction at http://perl6intro.com/#_native_calling_interface. I created the C function, copiled it and linked it to libncitest.so. Running ncitest.pl6 I get 'Cannot locate native library '/home/cronus/perl6intro.com/ncitest.so': /home/cronus/perl6intro.com/ncitest.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory'
19:44 _cronus after renaming libncitest.so to ncitest.so it works.
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20:01 Geth ¦ doc: 56ee890330 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Language/quoting.pod6
20:01 Geth ¦ doc: Fixed a few typos
20:01 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/56ee890330
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20:08 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 68cdcb2629 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
20:08 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Add Temp::Path to ecosystem
20:08 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
20:08 Geth ¦ ecosystem: "Make a temporary path, file, or directory":
20:08 Geth ¦ ecosystem: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Temp-Path
20:08 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/68cdcb2629
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20:09 vetmaster is it good to port perl5 modules to perl6?
20:09 vetmaster or it is better to use Inline::Perl5?
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20:10 moritz depends on what you want
20:10 Zoffix vetmaster: it's best to redesign from scratch. Mere carbon-copy ports in my experience suck badly.
20:11 Zoffix vetmaster: so if all you wanted to do is to just convert the code to Perl 6, then IMO just use Inline::Perl5.
20:12 moritz if you want to get started quickly, and are OK with the more complex deplyoments from Inline::Perl5, that's the faster approach
20:12 moritz but often Perl 6 offers some features (such as named arguments) that can really improve APIs
20:14 Zoffix vetmaster: not to toot my own horn, but compare File::Temp that's a port of a Perl 5 module to Temp::Path ( https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Temp-Path ). File::Temp gives you a string and an open IO::Handle. In Perl 5 handles auto-closed on scope leave, but in Perl 6 they aren't. Perl 5 has no core path object, but Perl 6 has IO::Path. So with File::Temp you're stuck with a string that's not really what you
20:14 Zoffix want and a handle that's you're forced to close.
20:14 Zoffix Also File::Temp has a bug where it'll delete a potentially good file if you `chdir`.
20:14 Zoffix Presumable Perl 5's version doesn't have that bug.
20:15 MasterDuke vetmaster: btw, if you're looking for a string difference/distance module, there's Text::Diff::Sift4 (caveat, i wrote it)
20:15 yoleaux 00:09Z <Zoffix> MasterDuke: something about '-'.IO.slurp.... No idea. Don't have time ATM to look. File a ticket, I'd think
20:15 MasterDuke yoleaux: that's old news
20:16 Zoffix I fixed that bug already
20:16 AlexDaniel vetmaster: and I should tell ya, Text::Diff::Sift4 is relatively fast! (caveat, I optimized it)
20:16 vetmaster then, are Python modules worth porting to Perl6?
20:16 AlexDaniel mostly, yes
20:17 AlexDaniel so that you can have perl6-ish API
20:17 vetmaster so, Inline::Python doesn't work fast and comfortly enough
20:17 vetmaster ?
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20:23 nine vetmaster: Inline::Python could use some love. There are a couple of performance optimizations I should port from Inline::Perl5 and also a lot of features.
20:23 Zoffix vetmaster: that's subjective, isn't it? It's also a chicken-and-egg situation: if no one uses it because it's slow and uncomfortable, no one is motivated to make it faster and comfortable :)
20:23 BenGoldberg _cronus, What happens if you replace "$*CWD/ncitest" with "ncitest"
20:23 nine vetmaster: That said, it may still be ok, depending on your use case. Also my motivation for improving depends on user feedback :)
20:25 TeamBlast joined #perl6
20:26 _cronus BenGoldberg: I get 'Cannot locate native library 'ncitest.so': ncitest.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory'
20:26 BenGoldberg Hmm...
20:27 * BenGoldberg thought that NativeCall automatically prepended 'lib' on linux.
20:27 Zoffix _cronus: what OS are you on?
20:28 nine The tutorial really should use %?RESOURCES for referencing the native lib
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20:29 _cronus BenGoldberg: ubuntu 16.04 using using rakudo from the repositories. perl6 -v -> This is perl6 version 2015.11 built on MoarVM version 2015.11
20:30 Zoffix oooph
20:30 Zoffix That's ancient
20:30 Zoffix That's even pre-first-release release.
20:30 Zoffix huggable: debs
20:30 huggable Zoffix, nothing found
20:30 nine BenGoldberg: NativeCall will not modify the library name if it already has a file extension.
20:30 Zoffix huggable: stop losing factoids!
20:30 huggable Zoffix, nothing found
20:30 Zoffix huggable: deb
20:30 huggable Zoffix, CentOS, Debian, Fedora and Ubuntu Rakudo packages: https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases
20:30 Zoffix _cronus: ^ I suggest you upgrade. You're basically using a beta release of perl 6.
20:31 BenGoldberg nine, I'm not suggesting he add an extension.  That's NativeCall's job.
20:32 Zoffix .oO( he? )
20:35 d4l3k_ joined #perl6
20:35 _cronus Zoffix: I'll do that. thanks.
20:38 BenGoldberg huggable, source
20:38 huggable BenGoldberg, See https://github.com/zoffixznet/huggable
20:39 geekosaur joined #perl6
20:41 BenGoldberg .tell Zoffix you might want to change huggable so that if someone asks for a nonexistant factoid, it asks "Did you mean... {a list of the most similarly named ones}?"
20:41 yoleaux BenGoldberg: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
20:41 _cronus BenGoldberg: Seems you were right, just upgraded to 20170300-03 and it automatically adds lib prefix.
20:41 BenGoldberg _cronus :)
20:42 AlexDaniel yay
20:42 BenGoldberg What a difference two years worth of upgrades makes ;)
20:42 diegok joined #perl6
20:42 AlexDaniel BenGoldberg: there's also this: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-IRC-Client-Plugin-Factoid/issues/3
20:43 AlexDaniel BenGoldberg: but yeah, create an issue there
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20:53 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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21:45 Geth ¦ doc: b33dd06206 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Iterator.pod6
21:45 Geth ¦ doc: Document Iterator protocol forbids…
21:45 Geth ¦ doc:
21:45 Geth ¦ doc: …trying to fetch data after IterationEnd
21:45 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b33dd06206
21:48 BenGoldberg . o O (Here be nasal demons)
21:56 Geth ¦ doc: 7ff09c8fc4 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Iterator.pod6
21:56 Geth ¦ doc: Misspell behaviour on purpose
21:56 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7ff09c8fc4
21:57 Geth ¦ doc: 27a9d5b999 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Iterator.pod6
21:57 Geth ¦ doc: And un-defed the undefined
21:57 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/27a9d5b999
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22:11 travis-ci Doc build failed. Zoffix Znet 'Misspell behaviour on purpose'
22:11 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/239405983 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/b33dd0620679...7ff09c8fc446
22:11 travis-ci left #perl6
22:13 travis-ci joined #perl6
22:13 travis-ci Doc build failed. Zoffix Znet 'And un-defed the undefined'
22:13 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/239406257 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/7ff09c8fc446...27a9d5b99972
22:13 travis-ci left #perl6
22:39 BenGoldberg m: dd &say.HOW.^methods;
22:39 camelia rakudo-moar 36bc41: OUTPUT: «X::Method::NotFound exception produced no message␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
22:39 raschipi joined #perl6
22:40 BenGoldberg bisectable6: dd &say.HOW.^methods;
22:40 bisectable6 BenGoldberg, Bisecting by output (old=2015.12 new=36bc410) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
22:40 bisectable6 BenGoldberg, bisect log: https://gist.github.com/173d2aa73de9585f2553b87c27daabd5
22:40 bisectable6 BenGoldberg, (2016-09-27) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/222d16b0b94911fdedb06ee6ad817d0f14b9c05c
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23:11 AlexDaniel bisectable6: old=2016.10 dd &say.HOW.^methods;
23:11 bisectable6 AlexDaniel, Bisecting by output (old=2016.10 new=36bc410) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
23:12 AlexDaniel oh come on…
23:12 bisectable6 AlexDaniel, bisect log: https://gist.github.com/f81037913bb6dbc8e09238efaf79d148
23:12 bisectable6 AlexDaniel, (2017-06-01) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c81b7a4b1a1f8a5c0d7c96cdd63a763cb5fd2068
23:12 AlexDaniel BenGoldberg: maybe you wanted to find this change ↑
23:12 AlexDaniel BenGoldberg: see this for a bigger picture: https://gist.github.com/77cf4168ade069b00d3df935085128e9
23:14 AlexDaniel note to everyone: use committable first with “releases” or “all”, then bisect. Otherwise you have no idea what you're bisecting, and looking through the log normally does not help
23:15 AlexDaniel MasterDuke: ↑ maybe you're interested in this change
23:18 BenGoldberg What a huge variety of different error messages :(
23:26 BenGoldberg m: my &foo; &foo = &say; dd &foo.VAR; &foo = Nil; dd &foo.VAR;
23:26 camelia rakudo-moar 36bc41: OUTPUT: «Sub.new␤Invocant of method 'perlseen' must be an object instance of type 'Mu', not a type object of type 'Callable'.  Did you forget a '.new'?␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
23:26 * BenGoldberg wonders what .perlseen is
23:26 BenGoldberg Not to mention, isn't everything a Mu?
23:27 geekosaur loop detection aid, I think. and, the point there is object instance vs. type object, not Mu vs. Callable
23:28 geekosaur that additional information is presented to help identify where the error occurs, although here you'd need --ll-exception to deal because it's an internal glitch
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