Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-06-13

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:52 samcv oh my. what have i done https://github.com/Juerd/p6-mqtt/commit/216de451931deff02d2df0d4d28a237d7493db08
00:52 yoleaux 12 Jun 2017 18:48Z <eveo> samcv: on 6.c-errata t/spec/S15-nfg/grapheme-break.t now fails 3 Regional_Indicator tests. Are the tests wrong?
00:52 samcv what have i done!
00:53 samcv i suggested they not do that :P but. hah https://github.com/Juerd/p6-mqtt/issues/3
00:53 samcv i did give them the idea
00:53 samcv i guess it's not that bad to be honest
00:53 sammers ha
00:54 samcv see my last link for the backstory on it
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00:54 sammers yeah
00:56 samcv though it *is* artistic-2.0 licensed so technically they did follow that advice
00:56 samcv technically..
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01:03 Juerd samcv: Don't feel sorry. It's a wonderful license!
01:05 Juerd The only thing we should fear about the "any OSI" license is that one day perhaps this license itself might be listed as an OSI compliant license, in which it becomes recursive...
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01:11 samcv "any OSI license" becomes an official OSI license :P
01:11 samcv haha
01:11 samcv tbh i'm totally fine with what you did. when zef gets good features of white and blacklisting licenses it should work as expected letting people install your software if they've whitelisted any OSI approved license
01:11 samcv so that is nice
01:13 samcv and now that it's explicitly in the metadata it becomes more clear you literally mean any OSI license :P
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01:13 timotimo under what license is the list of spdx licenses distributed?
01:14 samcv cc0-1.0
01:14 samcv it says here https://github.com/sindresorhus/spdx-license-list/
01:15 TEttinger CC0-1.0 isn't OSI-approved, IIRC
01:15 TEttinger I have code that's CC0 just because I don't know a better way of public domain declaration
01:15 samcv unless that's just the list
01:15 TEttinger it's pretty confusing
01:15 samcv TEttinger, CC0 is fine though as far as OSI is concerned
01:16 samcv the reason it was rejected. is because it says in the text that the license doesn't affect any patents
01:16 samcv which is basically the case for public domain
01:16 samcv and they didn't want to set a precedent to include licenses which specified in writing that it didn't affect patents
01:17 samcv The most serious of the concerns raised had to do with the effects of clause 4(a), which reads: "No ... patent rights held by Affirmer are waived, abandoned, surrendered, licensed or otherwise affected by this document.". While many open source licenses simply do not mention patents, it is exceedingly rare for open source licenses to explicitly disclaim any conveyance of patent rights, and the Committee felt that approving such a license would set a
01:17 samcv dangerous precedent, and possibly even weaken patent infringement defenses available to users of software released under CC0.
01:17 TEttinger https://opensource.org/faq#cc-zero is really confusing still
01:17 samcv it's a fine license. they just don't want to start going admiting patent restricting licenses
01:17 samcv as slippery slope or something? i think cc0 is FSF approved
01:18 TEttinger I don't especially understand patent/trademark law, not having made enough sacrifices of goats to mammon to pass the bar exam
01:18 samcv FSF wants it to grant the licencee patent use rights OR just not mention it at all
01:19 samcv because their hope is that somehow a court will rule that a license implies patent use rights or something? idk
01:19 samcv the area of patents and Free software licenses which don't mention them is very murky
01:19 TEttinger ah
01:19 TEttinger you've seen the amazing work that went into finding an illegal prime and publishing it?
01:19 samcv oh?
01:20 TEttinger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime
01:20 * samcv checks with her lawyer before clicking
01:21 samcv DeCSS can be acomplished with just a prime number?
01:21 TEttinger two primes actually
01:22 TEttinger either works
01:22 TEttinger one is 1401 digits, the other 1905 digits (base 10)
01:22 TEttinger so... really huge
01:23 samcv so the DeCSS code doesn't work until you get the prime number?
01:23 TEttinger the numbers are represented in binary in an identical way to the compressed form of the DeCSS algo
01:23 samcv was that prime number used in the creation of the CSS copyright production?
01:23 TEttinger nope
01:23 Juerd samcv: Via your site I found Pygments, and I had to try the hardest thing I could think of... I wonder if they'll support nested quotes :D  https://bitbucket.org/birkenfeld/pygments-main/issues/1353/nested-double-quotes
01:23 samcv or is it just data stored in a prime
01:23 TEttinger primes are prior art
01:23 samcv yeah
01:23 samcv heh Juerd
01:24 samcv if you are really cool you can make/find a plugin for jekyll which does perl 6 highlighting
01:24 samcv via my perl 6 highlighter that's used in atom/github/docs.perl6.org
01:24 samcv that would be pretty neat
01:24 samcv i'm sure it's not "that" hard to do
01:24 samcv since i got it working for docs.perl6.org
01:25 samcv that highlights properly in my highleghter
01:25 Juerd samcv: I don't think I'm cool enough for that...
01:25 samcv k :3
01:26 Juerd Basically I shouldn't spend too much time on side projects but I find time for short bug reports now and then...
01:26 samcv heh
01:27 samcv since github uses jekyll for github pages and they made highlights... maybe someday they'll do it
01:27 samcv though i think it must be different servers which run that stuff than the other github stuff..
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01:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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06:40 DrForr_ o/
06:40 yoleaux 6 Jun 2017 21:42Z <tbrowder> DrForr_: you have a new PR for Perl6::Parser
06:42 DrForr_ .tell tbrowder Committed (somewhat blindly - I've recently had many other things on my mind.)
06:42 yoleaux DrForr_: I'll pass your message to tbrowder.
06:45 El_Che DrForr_ is alive!
06:48 El_Che Ah, it's DrForr and not DrForr_, took you for someone else
06:48 DrForr https://github.com/drforr/angular-perl6-blog  # Do your Angular development with a Perl 6 back end, other feature ideas.
06:49 DrForr *other ideas to come along.
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08:00 * lizmat clickbaits https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/06/12/2017-24-synchronicity-sorted/
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08:21 DrForr o/ Ah, we have a newsgroup now.. or have had for a while, but I've been too lazy.
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10:16 Geth ¦ doc: 78831c390d | (Lloyd Fournier)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Proc/Async.pod6
10:16 Geth ¦ doc: Proc::Async.write returns a promise
10:16 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/78831c390d
10:35 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 8b94cc700a | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
10:35 Geth ¦ ecosystem: Remove deleted module
10:35 Geth ¦ ecosystem:
10:35 Geth ¦ ecosystem: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2017-06-13#i_14724942
10:35 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/8b94cc700a
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10:42 travis-ci Doc build errored. Lloyd Fournier 'Proc::Async.write returns a promise'
10:42 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/242361283 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/95a0de80745a...78831c390d4a
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10:42 Geth ¦ doc: 9492cb6002 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/IO.pod6
10:42 Geth ¦ doc: Fix typo
10:42 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9492cb6002
10:52 Geth ¦ doc: 02b2990c34 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/IO.pod6
10:52 Geth ¦ doc: Reword/expand &indir
10:52 Geth ¦ doc:
10:52 Geth ¦ doc: - Reword to avoid implying $*CWD is set *to* $path; a derivative object
10:52 Geth ¦ doc:     is actually created
10:52 Geth ¦ doc: - Document relative $path gets changed to absolute at all times (this
10:52 Geth ¦ doc:     avoids some issues, since some things expect $*CWD to .Str to an
10:52 Geth ¦ doc:     absolute path)
10:52 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/02b2990c34
10:52 tbrowder DrForr: hi, Perl6::Parser needs another rename (_build-tree to build-tree) to get testes to pass), new PR on deck
10:52 yoleaux 06:42Z <DrForr_> tbrowder: Committed (somewhat blindly - I've recently had many other things on my mind.)
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10:55 tbrowder i  understand, looking forward to yr presentation in dc
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11:03 travis-ci Doc build errored. Zoffix Znet 'Reword/expand &indir
11:03 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/242371409 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/9492cb600227...02b2990c34bd
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11:25 travis-ci Doc build errored. Zoffix Znet 'Fix typo'
11:25 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/242368687 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/78831c390d4a...9492cb600227
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12:21 araraloren evening
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12:24 nadim_ afternoon
12:26 raschipi morning
12:26 yoleaux 12 Jun 2017 22:49Z <pilne> raschipi: "thank you for the pointer to sparrowdo"
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12:37 DrForr %appropriate_greeting<local>;
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12:54 raschipi lizmat: EC::Grammars::DIG was written by Eduardo Capanema (bioduds), not me. Sorry for the confusion on the commits to the ecosyetm.
12:55 lizmat raschipi++    # fixed
12:56 raschipi Thanks.
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13:01 pmurias DrForr: re calling Perl 6 compiled to JS "PerlScript", something called PerlScript already exists (and is some Active Scripting Windowsy thing)
13:03 bioduds Hi guys
13:03 bioduds Got IO::Socket::Async to work which is better cause it sets me free and does not require threading in incoming signals
13:09 tbrowder fyi, i have a rough working linter that counts pod begin/end lines as well as open/close lines. see at: https://github.com/tbrowder/Perl6-Linter-Lite
13:10 pmurias DrForr: I looked into how the create-react-app build things and they are using webpack (I have hooked up nqp.js in the past into webpack) so I should be able to hook up rakudo.js into it
13:12 masak IMHO, Perl 6 compiled to JavaScript is either Perl 6, or JavaScript, depending how you see it ;)
13:14 abraxxa zostay: can you please release a new DOM::Tiny with the license fix included so it can be installed with zef without the failing test? Thanks!
13:14 zostay Sure
13:15 zostay I thought I had already, hmmm
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13:19 pmurias the tests that rakudo does not run but are in roast are not part of 6.c?
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13:27 zostay And so I did... I'm on my phone atm and I am not seeing why the ecosystem is not picking up the current version
13:28 bioduds seems like it is hanging though
13:30 perigrin pmurias: it's libperl set up as a WIndows Scripting HOst language so you can write ASP or Excel macros in Perl rather than VBScript
13:31 zengargoyle abraxxa: i just installed DOM::Tiny via zef without any problem.
13:32 zengargoyle Installing: DOM::Tiny:ver('0.3.3'):auth('github:zostay')
13:32 abraxxa I got a test failure regarding the 'Artistic' license which isn't listed at https://spdx.org/licenses/
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13:32 abraxxa don't have the shell log open any more though
13:34 zengargoyle "license" : "Artistic-2.0", --- you might be picking up an older version, maybe check that zef is up-to-date or maybe `zef update` for older zef?
13:40 bioduds if I ctrl+c the programm running the Async listener and try to run it again
13:40 bioduds it hangs
13:40 bioduds well, actually it hanged
13:40 bioduds not hanging anymore
13:40 zengargoyle it does take a while to test, 105 files 1022 tests, 56 seconds on the desktop.
13:41 DrForr pmurias: Good to know. It caused some serious conflicts when I was trying to work with more "regular" CSS so I haven't focussed on that much, but I think that replacing Typescript or at least compressing it into something Perlish is another option, that might also not require the need for the JS backend. Not that I don't *want* a JS backend for Perl 6, I'm just afraid the tooling we'd have to do for the libraries would fall out of sync too fast
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13:49 ufobat i am a cpan newbie. i am currently looking on what to do, in order to get the good tarball for Bailador for pause. if anyone has a hint i would appreciate it
13:54 zengargoyle ufobat: do you mean creating a Ballador-X.Y.Z.tar.gz file to upload?
13:54 ufobat i know App::Mi6
13:55 ufobat i am currently wondering why it "changes" my META6.json
13:55 ufobat but actually, i dont want to make something wrong and want to avoid pitfalls
13:55 ufobat zengargoyle, yes :)
13:55 zengargoyle well, i *think* App::Mi6 misses putting in a MANIFEST file, but i'm not really sure if it's mandatory or not.
13:56 zengargoyle ufobat: mi6 mostly just re-orders META by pretty-printing the json and alphabetizing things.
13:57 zengargoyle i found that out yesterday by putting my old META and the new META through `jq -S .` to make them the same level of pretty and doing a diff.
13:57 ufobat and kills my README.md
13:57 zengargoyle it ordered keys and changed '"key": "value"' to '"key" : "value'
13:58 zengargoyle it generated README.md from the Module.pm6 POD text.
13:58 ufobat ah
13:58 ufobat so bacially i can discard both hanges
13:58 pmurias DrForr: you had the problem with react using class for it's own purposes?
13:58 zengargoyle yeah...  not so sure about that.
13:59 pmurias DrForr: it uses className for the CSS class, the DOM uses className too because it's a keyword in
13:59 ufobat because for cpan the POD is important not the README.md?
14:01 b2gills README.md is for GitHub
14:01 pmurias DrForr: what do you mean by replacing Typescript?
14:01 zengargoyle i think that's just the way it 'automates' things.  build the README.md from the main Module.pm6 POD.  it might be better if it left a README.md alone and created a README.pod so you could have both.
14:02 ufobat okay! i am going to put this on my todo list :-) thanks for your help
14:03 zengargoyle it means you have to put your travis build status icons and stuff in your pod somehow... seems LTA.
14:03 zengargoyle you could just build the tarball yourself...
14:06 zengargoyle git ls-files > MANIFEST; edit MANIFEST and take out .gitignore, .travis.yml, .precomp dirs, etc.; tar --files-from=MANIFEST zcf /tmp/Module-X.Y.Z.tar.gz
14:08 zengargoyle eh, forget that.  more like make a Module-X.Y.Z directory and copy MANIFEST and the files in MANIFEST into the directory then tar the whole thing up.
14:08 ufobat i took the Folder which was generated by App::Mi6 and modified it a bit and recreated a tarball the same way app::mi6 does.
14:09 zengargoyle ah, cool.
14:09 * [Coke] hurls https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1375 for some LHF.
14:10 zengargoyle i noticed mi6 makes Module-Name-v.X.Y which is a bit different than normal CPAN modules, but i don't think it matters that much.
14:10 ufobat tarball is on pause
14:10 ufobat so :)
14:10 ufobat yay!
14:10 zengargoyle sweet!
14:10 ufobat i am in italy :) its vacation time
14:10 ufobat time for a aperol spritz :)
14:11 DrForr pmurias: Perl 6 has to offer something beyond just being able to serve up Angular.js code, at least in my mind. Replacing TypeScript with somethng that can integrate a data model so that you can wrap up a model + data service into one package is just one notion.
14:12 [Coke] anyone here going to TPC next week?
14:12 DrForr Unfortunately no :(
14:12 ufobat i just noticed mi6 doesn't create a MANIFEST file
14:13 zengargoyle see above for what it does when building the dist directory.
14:14 ufobat *nod*
14:14 zengargoyle let us know if PAUSE works without the MANIFEST :)
14:16 zengargoyle my old mbtiny generated p5 modules have the MANIFEST,
14:18 ufobat the log doesn't show a error, (when) should it be displayed in metacpan.org?
14:19 zengargoyle no clue, all my modules were just injected into a darkpan.
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14:21 * [Coke] decides that he can't take the last minute invite to the monday night dinner at TPC. Ah well.
14:25 zengargoyle i'm not sure if cpan/metacpan is doing anything with p6 things besides providing a Module::Name from the provides and mapping it to a tarball to download.  not sure if it searches or displays them yet.
14:27 ufobat mhmmm, how do i see if everything worked fine?
14:27 bioduds address already in use
14:28 bioduds hang
14:28 bioduds let me post a gist
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14:29 zengargoyle zef search zef -- shows it found in cpan and p6c.  i'd guess when you search and it turns up found on cpan it's there. :)
14:30 raschipi Now we need to show the pages for the modules and a search function.
14:31 zengargoyle woot: 1 |Zef::Repository::Ecosystems<cpan>|Bailador:ver('0.0.4')
14:32 bioduds https://gist.github.com/bioduds/fcb7d30703660b37618aa4df6cccda6a here
14:32 bioduds my guess is the thread is lost there
14:34 raschipi bioduds: when you send gists, send pure perl6 so that paeople can copy and paste. You can send messages with them, just add a '#' at the start of the lines that aren't valid Perl6.
14:37 zengargoyle is it the 'address already in use' that's the problem?
14:38 ufobat zengargoyle!!! :D thank you!
14:39 raschipi IO::Socket::Async should choose a high port if one isn't provided.
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14:40 bioduds ok, done
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14:41 zengargoyle it's picking the same one, and the previous program even after exiting the OS is keeping that port open for a bit for the shutdown process.  you need to add a flag to re-use. (i totally forget what the magic incantation is).
14:41 zengargoyle you don't need to reboot, you just need to wait longer for the socket to become available to be re-used again.
14:42 raschipi zengargoyle: What I would do is to choose a random port each time and return that to provide it to the other side of the connection.
14:42 zengargoyle or open it with a flag that tells the OS that you're going to be closing and re-opening the same socket.
14:43 raschipi That works too. But choosing a random port avoids other problems.
14:44 raschipi Better, IO::Socket::Async should let the system chose an available high port if one isn't provided.
14:45 raschipi Which would be the way network clients usually work.
14:45 zengargoyle ah, it's TIMEWAIT or something.  if you kill the server while the client still has the connection open, the server OS is going to have to wait for the client to finish up the TCP connection.  so you can't restart the server until the client that's connected has given up.
14:46 zengargoyle you need a socket with  SO_REUSEADDR set.
14:47 zengargoyle http://www.unixguide.net/network/socketfaq/4.5.shtml
14:48 zengargoyle it's usually something you can set in your server code when opening the socket.
14:49 bioduds reading... irc crashed
14:50 bioduds let me look for the flag
14:50 raschipi But these options aren't being exposed by IO::Socket::Async ...
14:50 zengargoyle that definately may be the case. :)
14:53 zengargoyle but that's in general why you can't have a server that listens on port X and then kill it and listen on port X again.  there is sometimes a still in progress TCP session between X and the client that has to finish before the port is available again, unless you set that flag when you open X, then it's OK (as long as you were the previous owner i think).
14:54 bioduds sorry, you mean directly?
14:54 bioduds by forcing?
14:55 raschipi bioduds: It's available in the OS interface but it isn't exposed by Perl6
14:56 raschipi You'll have to walk around that limitation for now.
14:56 bioduds so it would be done by running a system command, for instance?
14:56 bioduds to clear out the port?
14:56 raschipi We would call it "NativeCall"
14:57 bioduds ok, let me look for it
14:57 bioduds thanks :D
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14:57 zengargoyle bioduds: if you waited long enough, you wouldn't have to reboot the server to re-bind to the socket, it would eventually timeout.
14:59 zengargoyle bioduds: you do p5 right?
14:59 bioduds yes
15:00 zengargoyle perldoc IO::Socket::INET -- ReuseAddr   Set SO_REUSEADDR before binding
15:01 zengargoyle if p6 Socket had that option, you could use it and not get the error about address already in use.
15:02 zengargoyle or if your client shutdown properly before you killed the server, it would probably not happen at all.
15:02 vetmaster joined #perl6
15:05 zengargoyle when you're killing your client and server, the TCP connection remains alive because it didn't go through the TCP shutdown procedure, so the ports used by the client and server are still open and in-use, they will eventually time-out and be reclaimed.
15:06 zengargoyle before that happens, you can't re-start the server on the same port without using that SO_REUSEADDR flag to say "it's ok if it's still waiting for a timeout".
15:06 zengargoyle if you wait long enough, it will timeout and you can re-start the server without any problem.
15:10 cdg joined #perl6
15:16 lucs m: say <a b c>.map({ $_, $_.uc }).join('|');   # Why are there spaces between the letters?
15:16 camelia rakudo-moar 4aa60a: OUTPUT: «a A|b B|c C␤»
15:17 lucs (in the output, that is)
15:21 [Coke] m: say <a b c>.map({ $_, $_.uc }).join('|').perl;
15:21 camelia rakudo-moar 4aa60a: OUTPUT: «"a A|b B|c C"␤»
15:21 cdg joined #perl6
15:21 [Coke] m: say <a b c>.map({ $_, $_.uc }).perl;
15:21 camelia rakudo-moar 4aa60a: OUTPUT: «(("a", "A"), ("b", "B"), ("c", "C")).Seq␤»
15:22 [Coke] ^^ because you're stringifying elements that are lists, and then joining those elements.
15:22 [Coke] m: say <a b>
15:22 camelia rakudo-moar 4aa60a: OUTPUT: «(a b)␤»
15:22 [Coke] so, same reason there's a space there.
15:22 lucs Hmm...
15:22 [Coke] m: say <a b c>.map({ $_, $_.uc }).flat.join('|').perl;
15:22 camelia rakudo-moar 4aa60a: OUTPUT: «"a|A|b|B|c|C"␤»
15:23 [Coke] you can flatten the list before joining, if you like.
15:23 [Coke] m: say <a b c>.map(|{ $_, $_.uc }).join('|').perl; # does this work?
15:23 camelia rakudo-moar 4aa60a: OUTPUT: «"a A|b B|c C"␤»
15:23 dogbert17_ m: <a b c>.map(|{ $_, $_.uc })
15:23 camelia rakudo-moar 4aa60a: ( no output )
15:23 dogbert17_ m: say <a b c>.map(|{ $_, $_.uc })
15:23 camelia rakudo-moar 4aa60a: OUTPUT: «((a A) (b B) (c C))␤»
15:29 zakharyas joined #perl6
15:29 raschipi m: say <a b c>.map( {|($_, $_.uc)} )
15:29 camelia rakudo-moar 4aa60a: OUTPUT: «(a A b B c C)␤»
15:31 dogbert17_ say <a b c>.map( {|($_, $_.uc)} ).join('|')
15:31 evalable6 dogbert17_, rakudo-moar 4aa60ad04: OUTPUT: «a|A|b|B|c|C»
15:32 zengargoyle bioduds: not that you should, but you could try to use ssh to forward a port between the client machine and the server, then hopefully if you kill the ssh, the ports will close in a well handled fashion.
15:37 Geth ¦ doc: 5e30f3cbed | (Lloyd Fournier)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Proc/Async.pod6
15:37 Geth ¦ doc: Put space after -->
15:37 Geth ¦ doc:
15:37 Geth ¦ doc: to give it the same style as the others
15:37 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5e30f3cbed
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15:41 zengargoyle bioduds: ssh -N -L 5000:localhost:$SERVER_PORT $SERVER &; ./client localhost 5000; # killing the ssh would close TCP session correctly (most likely)
15:42 Reed_ joined #perl6
15:49 geekosaur it does not
15:50 geekosaur ssh will keep the session open as long as the forwarded connection is open. if you forcibly kill ssh then the connection is reset (i.e. both ends get TCP RST)
15:51 zengargoyle bummer, i thought that would be clever. :/
15:51 geekosaur "close the session correctly" requires more than just a TCP close for many protocols; things are more likely to recover properly for an RST than if the session is closed correctly at TCP level but not at the level of the logical connection
15:52 zengargoyle wait, isn't that enough that the server port would be released?
15:53 geekosaur also, SHUTDOWN wait applies even for properly closed connections so you still need SO_REUSEADDR/SO_REUSEPORT to restart
15:54 geekosaur (because networks are not always 100% reliable so it wants time to catch any stray packets that get delivered post-shutdown)
15:54 geekosaur "it" here being the kernel TCP stack
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16:01 raschipi bioduds: If you want to solve it immediatly, do a 'my $port = (1024..65535).pick' before starting the client and server and have them use a  different port each time.
16:04 zengargoyle and have a simple web server that only serves a single file on the server, have the server code write the port to the file, have the client use WWW to get the port to connect to. :)
16:04 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
16:05 raschipi Or do it with the proper tool, rpcbind
16:05 zengargoyle heh
16:06 geekosaur if you do it that way then you really need to check if the bind succeeded and if not increment the port and try again
16:07 zengargoyle surely there's some more web-scale solution.
16:08 geekosaur most servers just use the SO_REUSE* flags
16:08 zengargoyle for rpcbind
16:08 zengargoyle like etcd or something.
16:08 raschipi Get the network interface configured with many ip adresses and use a different one in each connection
16:09 zengargoyle just have the server start at 9000 and go up until it finds one, and have client try connecting from 9000 up until it connects.
16:10 raschipi Works until the client connects to the wrong server
16:10 zengargoyle that's a test. :)
16:20 vetmaster m6: say 2 ~~ /\w/
16:20 vetmaster m: say 2 ~~ /\w/
16:20 camelia rakudo-moar 4aa60a: OUTPUT: «「2」␤»
16:22 travis-ci joined #perl6
16:22 travis-ci Doc build errored. Lloyd Fournier 'Put space after -->
16:22 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/242472793 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/02b2990c34bd...5e30f3cbed87
16:22 travis-ci left #perl6
16:25 bioduds sorry I was out
16:26 zengargoyle bioduds: you're probably struck with passing a in a port for your server to start on and telling the client to use that port and cycling through ports until you find one.
16:27 zengargoyle s/struck/stuck/
16:28 vetmaster https://pastebin.com/z0C1dhxy
16:29 vetmaster why this prints 'alp' instead of 'alp!;abet'?
16:29 bioduds I like the idea raschipi but doesn't that rely on the node having all ports opened?
16:30 domidumont joined #perl6
16:31 bioduds nice solutions
16:32 raschipi bioduds: No, it will chose a port and use only one.
16:33 raschipi Or should I say it will pick a port
16:33 zengargoyle bioduds: why aren't you testing on your own machine?  it seems like it would be easier to get working.
16:33 bioduds because I already did locally
16:33 zengargoyle ah, nevermind.
16:33 bioduds now I putted up a node on AWS to test
16:34 bioduds so one node is local the other on AWS
16:34 zengargoyle right, raschipi: server on AWS so port opening is a thing.
16:35 bioduds I might consider using INET too if the forking pipeline is fine
16:35 geekosaur doesn't aws have some elastic binding for this kind of thing?
16:36 bioduds because it also leaves opened bidirectional communication
16:36 andrzejk_ joined #perl6
16:36 vetmaster https://pastebin.com/z0C1dhxy
16:36 vetmaster why this prints 'alp' instead of 'alp!;abet'?
16:36 bioduds I'm not building a server, it is a P2P network
16:36 vetmaster why does this print 'alp' instead of 'alp!;abet'?
16:36 raschipi vetmaster: It's looking for digit or punct between two alpha, but the string has 2 punct between alpha, so it doesn't match.
16:36 zengargoyle i would open a small range and try the server listen one each until one works, then print it.  that's the way vnc worked.
16:36 bioduds I gotta make it so any computer can have it working
16:37 bioduds with minimal requirements
16:37 geekosaur bioduds, you get to go learn how p2p networks handle this kind of thing
16:37 raschipi bioduds: the way zengargoyle is suggesting is a good way of doing it.
16:37 bioduds yes, I do
16:37 zengargoyle just to get around the start/stop/address in use thing.
16:37 bioduds in special, bitcoin
16:38 bioduds I need to catch up on that knowledger part, I agree
16:38 geekosaur againm the right answer to that is to use the SO_REUSE* options
16:38 zengargoyle i took a peek at IO::Socket::INET/Async code and there's no obvious way to hack in SO_REUSE* at least for me.... it quickly goes down into nqp land.
16:38 bioduds one question, how would I go around threading in Perl6?
16:39 zengargoyle it creates and binds or listens all in one little place.
16:39 bioduds cause INET does not seem to run into this problem
16:39 mr-foobar joined #perl6
16:40 zengargoyle INET would have the same address already in use problems.
16:40 zengargoyle unless you're talking about some other problem.
16:42 geekosaur you likely want to talk to (I think) jnthn about that while the code is still being modified, exporting some way to do that would be smart
16:42 bioduds the benefit of going Async is not having to deal with the threads
16:42 geekosaur most servers need to use the reuse options so they can be restarted without having to sit out TIME_WAIT
16:42 bioduds surely
16:42 geekosaur and 99.99% of the time any stray packets will be caught by the sequence number
16:43 bioduds I'll get into the REUSE, can you point me out to a link?
16:43 bioduds so I can try to learn it
16:43 geekosaur https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3229860/what-is-the-meaning-of-so-reuseaddr-setsockopt-option-linux
16:44 geekosaur it just tells the tcp stack to let you use an address/port that is in TIME_WAIT state
16:44 bioduds yeah, that seems like the way to go
16:44 geekosaur (SO_REUSEADDR, SO_REUSEPORT; a port is identified uniquely by its bind address and port number)
16:44 bioduds I left it running for about an hour here and it stopped
16:45 zengargoyle neither INET nor Async have it so....
16:45 bioduds so it kinds of floods the com channel somehow
16:45 bioduds looks like memory leak
16:45 jnthn https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/master/src/io/syncsocket.c#L309
16:45 bioduds hi jnthn, reading it
16:46 jnthn SO_REUSEADDR is set by libuv automatically, and when recently porting sync sockets away from libuv I replicated it
16:46 jnthn So SO_REUSEADDR should be being set in both cases, afaik
16:47 bioduds oh
16:47 zengargoyle SO_REUSEPORT?
16:47 bioduds that means something else is going on then
16:47 bioduds since it is built in
16:47 jnthn SO_REUSEPORT ain't being
16:47 bioduds any thoughts? on what could be the cause?
16:48 Util joined #perl6
16:48 bioduds memory?
16:48 bioduds as I said, I did not catch that on INET, only with Async
16:50 jnthn What's the problem you're having?
16:50 bioduds https://gist.github.com/bioduds/fcb7d30703660b37618aa4df6cccda6a this, every once in a while
16:50 jnthn Trying to find where this started in the chat but there's a lot of it :P
16:51 bioduds it's there in the gist, I think it is somewhat simple to understand. I'm setting a P2P com tests. i have one code on my PC running Mint and the client node on AWS ubuntu
16:51 bioduds so I get the send and receive well
16:51 bioduds no problem. But sometimes it refuses the connection
16:52 bioduds saying address already in use
16:52 * zengargoyle is now really confused if SO_REUSEADDR is set and you can't kill a server and restart it w/o getting address allready in use error.
16:52 bioduds then only thing that helps is rebooting the AWS
16:52 jnthn bioduds: Which side gives you that error? The server one?
16:53 jnthn (I'm figuring that's surely the case but... :))
16:53 jnthn oh wait, no, the client one?!
16:54 bioduds the server, though there is no server client actually since it is a p2p
16:54 bioduds no, the server actually
16:54 jnthn ah, ok
16:54 jnthn I was confused by the ~/client :)
16:54 bioduds yep, cause it is p2p
16:54 bioduds so there isn't actually client and server
16:55 jnthn Yeah, I didn't know that bit :)
16:55 bioduds but when a node calls, he is the client
16:55 bioduds and the receiver node is the server
16:55 atta hi. how can I format numbers as in: I have 10000 and I want to print 10_000? I've already searched in the documentation, but couldn't find it
16:56 cgfbee joined #perl6
16:56 jnthn bioduds: Yeah, just checked again in libuv and it's certainly setting the option...
16:56 jnthn on = 1;
16:56 jnthn if (setsockopt(tcp->io_watcher.fd, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, &on, sizeof(on)))
16:56 jnthn return -errno;
16:57 bioduds ok, so we can be sure this is not happening because the SO_REUSEADDR is set
16:57 bioduds not set
16:57 bioduds it is set
16:57 bioduds I mean
16:57 jnthn I got exactly the behavior you're describing when I was porting sync sokcets away from libuv fwiw
16:58 jnthn And it went away when I started setting SO_REUSEADDR again
16:58 troys joined #perl6
16:58 jnthn So yeah, the error is familiar...but I don't think that could be the cause
16:59 jnthn Time to head home and eat...bbl o/
16:59 zengargoyle bioduds: and this same code worked on localhost right?
16:59 bioduds on localhost I didn't catch that
16:59 * zengargoyle wonders if AWS is *that* special.
17:00 bioduds I'll run a local and let it stay for test
17:00 zengargoyle maybe different kernel sysctls
17:00 bioduds I may not have tested it enough
17:00 bioduds I'm assuming I have the same kernel
17:00 bioduds Mint is Ubuntu, right?
17:01 xzhao joined #perl6
17:01 zengargoyle well i'm only thinking about the address in use problem.  don't know enough about the Async and such to be of any use.
17:02 zengargoyle there may be sysctls that change behavior that would effect SO_REUSE, but i've never run across any.
17:07 geekosaur there's usually a way to shorten TIME_WAIT, it's commonly shortened a lot on web servers because you can easily end up with a bunch of client connection ports all in TIME_WAIT and no free ports to accept new connections on
17:07 geekosaur 65536 ports is a *really* tiny number on modern servers
17:10 pilne joined #perl6
17:13 zengargoyle net.ipv4.tcp_fin_timeout
17:15 * zengargoyle has only played with some congestion algo and buffer sizes to push 10Gbs halfway around the world.
17:16 raschipi m: 12345678901011121314.flip.comb(3).join('_').flip #atta
17:16 camelia rakudo-moar 3b67b4: ( no output )
17:16 raschipi m: 12345678901011121314.flip.comb(3).join('_').flip.say #atta
17:16 camelia rakudo-moar 3b67b4: OUTPUT: «12_345_678_901_011_121_314␤»
17:17 zengargoyle wow, comb does numbers that way. :)
17:20 zengargoyle m: 12345678901011121314.flip.subst(/.../,$/~'_',:g).flip.say
17:20 camelia rakudo-moar 3b67b4: OUTPUT: «Use of Nil in string context␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤12______␤»
17:21 zengargoyle wat! that works in repl.
17:23 zengargoyle m: 12345678901011121314.Str.flip.subst(/.../,$/~'_',:g).flip.say
17:23 camelia rakudo-moar 3b67b4: OUTPUT: «Use of Nil in string context␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤12______␤»
17:26 atta raschipi, zengargoyle: thanks! :)
17:30 eveo joined #perl6
17:30 eveo zengargoyle: you're missing a block
17:30 eveo m: 12345678901011121314.Str.flip.subst(/.../, {$/~'_'},:g).flip.say
17:30 camelia rakudo-moar 06c2e2: OUTPUT: «12_345_678_901_011_121_314␤»
17:31 eveo It probably works in your REPL because your $/ ended up being set to a right Match. If I load REPL and run your line, it still has the same error, because it's stringifying the wrong $/
17:32 eveo m: 12345678901011121314.Str.flip.subst(/.../, *~'_',:g).flip.say
17:32 camelia rakudo-moar 06c2e2: OUTPUT: «12_345_678_901_011_121_314␤»
17:32 eveo ^ it's also passed as the arg, so can do that ^
17:32 raschipi m: 12345678901011121314.flip.subst(/.../, *~'_',:g).flip.say
17:32 camelia rakudo-moar 06c2e2: OUTPUT: «12_345_678_901_011_121_314␤»
17:33 eveo It's also the wrong way to accomplish this task
17:33 eveo m: 123456789010111213145.Str.flip.subst(/.../, *~"_",:g).flip.say
17:33 camelia rakudo-moar 06c2e2: OUTPUT: «_123_456_789_010_111_213_145␤»
17:33 cdg joined #perl6
17:33 eveo m: 123456789010111213145.Str.flip.subst(/... <before .>/, *~"_",:g).flip.say
17:33 camelia rakudo-moar 06c2e2: OUTPUT: «123_456_789_010_111_213_145␤»
17:35 * zengargoyle liked the comb better. :)
17:37 eveo yeah, it is
17:40 raschipi What is that? Python? Perl6 Ints are cool.
17:41 eveo m: say Int ~~ Cool
17:41 camelia rakudo-moar 06c2e2: OUTPUT: «True␤»
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17:44 mspo m: say Cool.WHAT
17:44 camelia rakudo-moar 06c2e2: OUTPUT: «(Cool)␤»
17:44 mspo m: say Cool.METHODS
17:44 camelia rakudo-moar 06c2e2: OUTPUT: «No such method 'METHODS' for invocant of type 'Cool'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
17:47 grondilu joined #perl6
17:49 atta Well, for numbers like 123456.123 (with decimals), the flip-comb-join-flip won't work
17:49 atta but my problem was just with integers, so it's good for me
17:50 atta Would this be the case for a module like https://metacpan.org/pod/Number::Format?
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17:55 bioduds sorry, client called me
17:55 bioduds gotta go
17:55 bioduds thanks for the tips :D
17:55 zengargoyle atta: well volunteered
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18:03 atta zengargoyle: :P Nice. I have another one in the line: Lingua::pt_BR::Nums2Words. But when it's done (hope won't take long), I could try the Number::Format, if someone hasn't started before
18:07 raschipi Muito zuca lidando com Perl6
18:08 vetmaster <punct - [«»]>
18:08 vetmaster what's wrong with it?
18:08 vetmaster I want to match all punct symbols, except « and »
18:10 atta raschipi: :P
18:10 zengargoyle m: (given 123456.12345.split(/\./) -> ($n,$d) { $n.flip.comb(3).join('_').flip ~ '.' ~ $d.comb(3).join('_') }).say
18:10 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «123_456.123_45␤»
18:12 domidumont joined #perl6
18:12 raschipi m: (given 123456.12345.split('.') -> ($n,$d) { $n.flip.comb(3).join('_').flip ~ '.' ~ $d.comb(3).join('_') }).say
18:12 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «123_456.123_45␤»
18:13 raschipi Split also accepts a Str, just FYI
18:15 vetmaster <punct - [«»]>
18:15 vetmaster what's wrong with it?
18:15 vetmaster I want to match all punct symbols, except « and »
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18:18 moritz try <+punct-[«»]>
18:19 vetmaster thanks! I solved it myself already, I used <:punct-[«»]>
18:19 vetmaster and it seems to work
18:19 vetmaster I think + and : are equal there
18:21 * grondilu is not sure what <: means
18:22 * grondilu checks S05
18:22 moritz m: say so m/<+punkt-[«»]/ for qw/+ - «/
18:22 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in metachar:sym<assert>; couldn't find final '>' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say so m/<+punkt-[«»]7⏏5/ for qw/+ - «/␤»
18:22 moritz m: say so m/<+punkt-[«»]>/ for qw/+ - «/
18:22 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «No such method 'punkt' for invocant of type 'Match'. Did you mean any of these?␤    punct␤    put␤␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
18:22 moritz geekosaur: : is for Unicode properties, iirc
18:22 moritz m: say so m/<+punct-[«»]>/ for qw/+ - «/
18:22 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «False␤True␤False␤»
18:23 geekosaur misaim?
18:23 geekosaur (I think you meant grondilu if I am reading backscroll properly)
18:23 moritz yes, sorry
18:23 grondilu yeah : is for unicode props
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18:24 eater hmm
18:24 eater m: my $t = 15; $t [R/]= 5; say $t;
18:24 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤    Useless use of [R/]= in sink context␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3my $t = 15; $t 7⏏5[R/]= 5; say $t;␤0.333333␤»
18:25 grondilu I've seen this one before
18:26 grondilu notice it's just a warning though
18:26 eater yep
18:26 eater it works just fine
18:26 eater but why the warning?
18:26 grondilu bug
18:27 vetmaster buggable: hi there
18:27 raschipi m: my $t = 15; quietly $t [R/]= 5; say $t;
18:27 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «0.333333␤»
18:27 eater raschipi: :')
18:27 * grondilu did not know (or forgot) about quietly
18:31 BenGoldberg m: my $t = 15; 5 R/= $t; say $t;
18:31 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «3␤»
18:31 vetmaster m: my $x = 16; $x /= 4; say $x;
18:31 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «4␤»
18:31 vetmaster m: my $x = 15; $x /= 4; say $x;
18:31 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «3.75␤»
18:31 vetmaster m: my $x = 15; $x [R/]= 4; say $x;
18:31 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤    Useless use of [R/]= in sink context␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3my $x = 15; $x 7⏏5[R/]= 4; say $x;␤0.266667␤»
18:31 vetmaster m: my $x = 15; quietly $x [R/]= 4; say $x;
18:31 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «0.266667␤»
18:33 vetmaster what does this operator do?
18:34 vetmaster say 15 R/ 4;
18:34 evalable6 vetmaster, rakudo-moar 690007843: OUTPUT: «0.266667»
18:34 grondilu m: sub infix:<op>($a, $b) { -1 }; my $x = 0; $x [op]= 1; say $x
18:34 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «-1␤»
18:34 grondilu m: sub infix:<op>($a, $b) { -1 }; my $x = 0; $x [R[op]]= 1; say $x
18:34 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «-1␤»
18:34 grondilu m: sub infix:<op>($a, $b) { -1 }; my $x = 0; $x [R*]= 1; say $x
18:34 camelia rakudo-moar 690007: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤    Useless use of [R*]= in sink context␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3nfix:<op>($a, $b) { -1 }; my $x = 0; $x 7⏏5[R*]= 1; say $x␤0␤»
18:34 grondilu go figure
18:35 raschipi vetmaster: The R metaoperator inverts the operands of another one, then they are grouped with [ ] and combined with the attribution metaoperator
18:35 vetmaster say 4 / 15;
18:35 evalable6 vetmaster, rakudo-moar 690007843: OUTPUT: «0.266667»
18:36 vetmaster but why we cannot just do 4 / 15?
18:37 raschipi You either have to invert the division operator or the attribution operator.
18:37 vetmaster ah
18:37 vetmaster ok
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19:45 Geth ¦ doc: 10c639fdf5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/IO/Handle.pod6
19:45 Geth ¦ doc: Document defaults of IO::Handle.read/readchars
19:45 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/10c639fdf5
19:50 Geth ¦ doc: 7397c9fa74 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/IO/CatHandle.pod6
19:50 Geth ¦ doc: Document IO::CatHandle.read's default size
19:50 Geth ¦ doc:
19:50 Geth ¦ doc: Rakudo impl: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aa9516be23
19:50 Geth ¦ doc: Tests: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1d4232f0c2
19:50 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7397c9fa74
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20:39 travis-ci Doc build passed. Zoffix Znet 'Document defaults of IO::Handle.read/readchars'
20:39 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/242562033 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/5e30f3cbed87...10c639fdf5b9
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21:24 travis-ci Doc build errored. Zoffix Znet 'Document IO::CatHandle.read's default size
21:24 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/242564094 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/10c639fdf5b9...7397c9fa74f6
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22:07 beginner is there concurrent object grouping in perl6 like a jcobox in java
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22:19 jnthn beginner: Looks a good bit like what https://github.com/jnthn/oo-actors/ is doing
22:19 jnthn (Method calls automatically become async and return a Promise)
22:19 jnthn And automatically scheduled
22:21 jnthn Stick in use v6.d.PREVIEW to get the Perl 6.d non-blocking `await` and you get the non-blocking bit also
22:23 beginner jnthn : to my understanding in case of concurrent object group, many  object group can be created for one class and each group can have more than object...but in this oo-actors is it not like only one object can be created per group?
22:23 beginner correct me if i am wrong
22:26 jnthn Well, that object can itself has internal state consisting of other objects, but yes, the enforcement of one-at-a-time semantics would then only apply to the outermost one, the assuming thus being that you'd not be sharing those or that they'd be immutable
22:26 jnthn So if I'm following what they're saying correct, then the cobox thing goes a step further
22:28 * jnthn should read the paper rather than the ping pong example :)
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22:30 beginner :)
22:34 jnthn Yeah, they've certainly got some interesting concepts beyond what OO::Actors does.
22:37 jnthn Would be an interesting module to write at some point :)
22:37 beginner cool
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22:46 jnthn sleep time o/
22:53 timotimo nite jnthn
22:53 timotimo (much late)
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