Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-06-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:32 lookatme joined #perl6
00:32 lookatme morning
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00:34 samcv morning lookatme
00:34 Geth ¦ doc: fedda5e11b | (Samantha McVey)++ | 2 files
00:34 Geth ¦ doc: [unicode-grant] Link to UTF8-C8 and NFC Unicode page from IO::Handle
00:34 Geth ¦ doc:
00:34 Geth ¦ doc: Also fix minor typo on Unicode page.
00:34 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fedda5e11b
00:35 lookatme samcv, o/
00:36 samcv hope this page links properly
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00:47 samcv i think i've written up my talk's description https://gist.github.com/samcv/31d52d246999be98d27211c2b2b3bf33 i think it looks good. anybody got input?
00:50 samcv hmm says i should have 100 and max 300 works. looks like that's 72
00:50 lookatme samcv++ don't know much about Unicode
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00:51 samcv that's my personal goal for unicode in perl 6. that the developer should only need to know the basics. and the rest should be easy to access
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00:56 samcv i'm thinking 45 minutes? 20 minutes sounds like too little
01:09 lookatme samcv, They said `Tutorials (up to 180 minutes)`
01:09 samcv idk. how long should it be. you tell me
01:09 samcv :P
01:09 samcv i'm not sure how long to make it
01:11 lookatme Have you read that paper
01:11 lookatme http://act.perlconference.org/tpc-2017-amsterdam/call-for-papers.html
01:12 samcv yes..
01:12 samcv 180 minutes seems a bit long though
01:12 samcv but it says 'up to'
01:12 lookatme yeah, ~~ up
01:12 samcv so how long do you think I should make it?
01:13 lookatme maybe 45 minutes, as you said before, haha
01:14 lookatme a lesson about Unicode
01:14 lookatme Perl6 Unicode
01:16 lookatme But I think you should estimate time according your topic, like a lesson prepare
01:18 lookatme Sorry about my English :(
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01:25 travis-ci Doc build errored. Samantha McVey '[unicode-grant] Link to UTF8-C8 and NFC Unicode page from IO::Handle
01:25 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244348827 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/e556ea37438d...fedda5e11be3
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01:26 samcv leave me alone travis ;( you just timed out
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01:48 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
02:04 samcv cool. got the new flags on the mvm side so you can customize and reverse the sorting of case, diacritics, and letter with the unicode collation algorithm
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02:44 samcv hm what arguments would seem good for $*COLLATION.set(primary => 1/-1/0) or maybe primary => More/Less/Same
02:44 samcv though idk how useful More/Less/Same seem?
02:45 samcv i mean actually you could supply either. since More/Less/Same really are just 1/-1/0
02:49 lookatme The second one is readable
02:50 lookatme But the first one is easy to write ...
02:51 lookatme How about make that default argument ?
03:02 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: dwarring++ created pull request #79: fix gtk_simple_use_cairo() as per issue #69
03:02 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/pull/79
03:02 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: 5d0e9df2e4 | (David Warring)++ | lib/GTK/Simple/DrawingArea.pm6
03:02 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: fix gtk_simple_use_cairo() as per issue #69
03:02 Geth ¦ gtk-simple:
03:02 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: To get the following to work (display aqua square)
03:02 Geth ¦ gtk-simple:
03:02 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: use v6.c;
03:02 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: use GTK::Simple;
03:02 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: use GTK::Simple::DrawingArea;
03:02 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: <…commit message has 20 more lines…>
03:02 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/commit/5d0e9df2e4
03:03 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: 3ed1531bc4 | (David Warring)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | lib/GTK/Simple/DrawingArea.pm6
03:03 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: Merge pull request #79 from dwarring/cairo-callback
03:03 Geth ¦ gtk-simple:
03:03 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: fix gtk_simple_use_cairo() as per issue #69
03:03 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/commit/3ed1531bc4
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03:06 samcv lookatme, yeah the defaults are all 1
03:06 samcv unless you set it otherwise
03:12 lookatme Oh. What's the mean of **primary**
03:15 samcv different letters
03:15 samcv secondary is diacritic, tertiary is case
03:15 samcv so you will be able to change the sorting of case without effecting the sorting by letter and diacritic for example
03:16 samcv or move diacritics before the primary character in the sort instead of them come after
03:16 samcv or you can turn any of the three levels off
03:16 samcv fully customizable sort
03:17 samcv well maybe not *fully* but as long as you want primary. secondary, tertiary or quaternary(breaking ties with codepoint)
03:17 samcv you can choose any direction enable/disable you wish
03:19 lookatme oh, awesome
03:20 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: e42501ef73 | (David Warring)++ | examples/18-cairo-draw-handler.pl6
03:20 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: add cairo callback example finalanalyst++
03:20 Geth ¦ gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/commit/e42501ef73
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03:40 samcv yeah pretty awesome
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05:43 keylet how to split a string like 'string' -> [s t r i n g]
05:43 keylet ?
05:47 parv str.split( '' ) after guessing it.
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05:51 parv hmm ... but not quite ... as there are empty strings at the end; better check the doc
05:53 samcv you want comb keylet
05:53 samcv though they seem to have gone
05:54 samcv parv, split('') will give you empty strings at the start and end of the string
05:54 * parv fish-slaps self for forgetting "comb". again.
05:56 parv samcv, yup; found that out after looking closely at the output.
05:57 parv ... just goes to show how unfamiliar i still am due to lack of regular non-practice
06:01 parv oh, wait! that should have been "... lack of regular practice".
06:04 samcv hah. i knew comb did it. and honestly never thought to use split. but makes sense it would "work"
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06:07 moritz m: say 'string'.split('').perl
06:07 camelia rakudo-moar 6d4691: OUTPUT: «("", "s", "t", "r", "i", "n", "g", "").Seq␤»
06:08 moritz note that this is likely not what anybody wants (leading and trailing empty strings)
06:10 parv there is layout/css problem with all-in-one perl 6 doc, https://docs.perl6.org/perl6.xhtml . where should i post a screenshot?
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06:11 moritz imgur?
06:12 parv hmm ... would i need an account there?
06:12 samcv moritz, how long and how should the bio be like for submitting a paper for the EU perl conf?
06:12 samcv any tips
06:12 samcv about to submit mine now
06:12 nebuchadnezzar parv: https://framapic.org/ does not require an account
06:13 parv nebuchadnezzar, thanks.
06:14 moritz samcv: maybe a sentence or two?
06:14 moritz samcv: I've given talks at two YAPC::EU's, but I'm not a professional speaker by any account, so take my advice with a grain of salt
06:14 nebuchadnezzar Time to go to work :-/ see you
06:15 parv hunh. apparently, i can post on imgur sans an account: https://imgur.com/a/3zDtw
06:19 samcv the more times i type collation (the word), the weirder the spelling of the word seems
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06:32 moritz samcv: isn't that the case with most words? :-)
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06:35 keylet m: say 'string' ~~ m:g/./
06:35 camelia rakudo-moar 6d4691: OUTPUT: «(「s」 「t」 「r」 「i」 「n」 「g」)␤»
06:36 keylet I don't know if this is too slow, but it works anyway
06:38 lookatme_ m: say "string".comb
06:38 camelia rakudo-moar 6d4691: OUTPUT: «(s t r i n g)␤»
06:41 keylet m: say "string".comb.WHAT
06:41 camelia rakudo-moar 6d4691: OUTPUT: «(Seq)␤»
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06:46 moritz m: (say 'string' ~~ m:g/./)[0].^name
06:46 camelia rakudo-moar 6d4691: OUTPUT: «(「s」 「t」 「r」 「i」 「n」 「g」)␤»
06:55 parv is not collecting return value of a sub or a method an error? or, perl 6 would not care either?
06:55 moritz parv: there's an easy way to find out :-)
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06:57 parv moritz, oy, give me a fish please
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07:11 parv turns out calling a value returning sub in void context is just fine w/ rakudo.
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07:19 parv is there anything for undefined value besides Nil?
07:20 geekosaur type objects
07:20 geekosaur m: my Int $x; dd $x
07:20 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «Int $x = Int␤»
07:21 parv i meant some value/function that would be undefined.
07:21 parv ... to be returned from a sub.
07:23 moritz parv: sorry, was away for a bit; the easiest is to just run a very small, isolated test
07:23 moritz m: sub f() { return 'ignored' }; f(); say "I'm still fine."
07:23 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «I'm still fine.␤»
07:25 parv moritz, thanks; no worries. i had done just that.
07:29 geekosaur perl6 has types, there is no untyped undef like perl 5 has
07:30 parv if a class attribute or a simple variable can be defined as "has Int $.x" or my Int $x = 3", then why cannot use the same syntax to return a value from a sub "sub ... { return Int 3 } "  (instead of "Int(3)")?
07:31 geekosaur because Int is a type object, the undefined Int value
07:31 geekosaur it cannot simultaneously be a function callable without parentheses, if you leave off the parentheses you get the type object
07:33 parv that (bare Int being a type object) should explain "two terms in a row" message. thanks geekosaur.
07:34 lookatme_ m: sub f() { return Int: 3; }; say f().WHAT; # Why is a List ?
07:34 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «(List)␤»
07:35 lookatme_ m: sub f() { return Int: 3; }; say f().perl;
07:35 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «(Int, 3)␤»
07:37 parv lookatme_, why does "Int: 3" not produce an error while "Int 3" does?
07:37 moritz "Int 3" is two terms in a row, which is a syntax error
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07:40 geekosaur the colon there is, I think, intended to be an alternative method call (foo.method: parameters). but there is no method to be called so it can't be that. capture perhaps?
07:41 geekosaur (then "flattened" to a list for some reason)
07:41 lookatme_ m: sub f() { return: Int, 3; }; say f().WHAT; # same
07:41 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «(List)␤»
07:41 lookatme_ m: sub f() { return: Int, 3; }; say f().perl; # same
07:41 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «(Int, 3)␤»
07:43 geekosaur those two are not doing what you think, and probably not the same thing as the first
07:43 geekosaur 'return:' is a label
07:43 geekosaur m: sub f() { glorp: Int, 3; }; say f().perl; # same
07:43 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «(Int, 3)␤»
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07:44 lookatme_ geekosaur, yeah, maybe, I just wonder why first one return a List.
07:45 parv could "Int: 3"  be "Adverbial pairs (colon pairs)" (https://docs.perl6.org/language/syntax)?
07:46 geekosaur the colon starts a colon pair, and would be two-terms-in-a-row there
07:46 geekosaur colon pair is :foo(3) or :3foo or :foo (the latter becoming :foo(True))
07:47 lookatme_ parv, no
07:48 parv ok. is there a name for "Int:" syntax so that I could search for that?
07:50 lookatme_ Oh, it's a parameter separator like `,`, but marks the argument to its left as the invocant.
07:50 lookatme_ m: sub f() { Int.return(3) }; say f().perl;
07:50 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «(Int, 3)␤»
07:50 lookatme_ But ..
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07:51 lookatme_ Why I can call a return on Int ..
07:51 geekosaur that was what I was thinking of when I mentioned captures... because I thought that was the only place that was valid
07:51 geekosaur and, also, that question
07:51 lookatme_ m: sub f() { 2.return }; say f().perl;
07:51 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «2␤»
07:51 geekosaur and of course searching the source for 'return' is less than helpful :p
07:52 lookatme_ OH, return is not only a "sub"(?right), but also a method
07:52 geekosaur welp. looks like 'return' is indeed a method (in Mu)
07:53 lookatme_ yeah, that's make sense now
07:53 geekosaur ahah, and its parameter *is* a capture
07:53 geekosaur which is why the invocant syntax works
07:54 geekosaur method return(|) ...
07:55 lookatme_ oh
07:55 pmurias are the encoding we support documented somewhere? I'm looking up what utf8-c is, so that I can implement it for the js backend
07:55 geekosaur utf8-c8 doc just got added today
07:56 geekosaur https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e556ea3743
08:00 pmurias the "they will look funny when printed to utf8 file handle" seems suspicious
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08:12 * parv rants: perl6 doc should replace "undef" with "Nil" already
08:16 pmurias parv: you mean when you are searching for "undef" but mean Nil?
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08:17 parv pmurias, no. At least in one example, a comment mentioned "undef" but should there is no such value of function. That specific mention should either be changed to "undefined", "unknown", or "Nil".
08:18 parv s/but should there is no/but there is no/
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08:20 parv thank you, people.
08:20 parv see you some some other time.
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09:05 samcv m: use experimental :collation; <a á A Á ó ø 1 z t ṫ>.collate.say
09:05 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «(1 a A á Á ó ø t ṫ z)␤»
09:05 samcv m: use experimental :collation; $*COLLATION.set(tertiary=> -1); <a á A Á ó ø 1 z t ṫ>.collate.say
09:06 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «(1 A a Á á ó ø t ṫ z)␤»
09:06 samcv nice.
09:06 samcv m: use experimental :collation; $*COLLATION.set(secondary => -1, tertiary=> -1); <a á A Á ó ø 1 z t ṫ>.collate.say
09:06 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «(Á á 1 A a ø ó ṫ t z)␤»
09:07 samcv hmm. weird how 1 goes after A there...
09:07 samcv unidump: 1
09:07 unicodable6 samcv, https://gist.github.com/c01e7203aad75947c12e0003f1bc4330
09:07 samcv unidump a
09:07 samcv unidump: a
09:07 unicodable6 samcv, https://gist.github.com/ceee35c0a1871a85161cd80e88e97957
09:09 lookatme_ m: use experimental :collation; $*COLLATION.set(tertiary=> Less); <a á A Á ó ø 1 z t ṫ>.collate.say
09:09 camelia rakudo-moar 476780: OUTPUT: «(1 A a Á á ó ø t ṫ z)␤»
09:10 samcv hmm. may have to go back to a more complex method of it
09:11 samcv since from as i can see here. negating both tertiary and secondary can cause primary to be ignored. and make 1 sort after a
09:11 samcv so will have to fix that
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09:12 samcv as secondary is 33 for both a and 1. and primary is 7231 for 1 and a is 7240. so very close
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11:37 bioduds Hi all
11:37 bioduds whats up?
11:37 bioduds Anyone heard of Tangles?
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11:41 Geth ¦ perl6.org: 355a391757 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/resources/index.html
11:41 Geth ¦ perl6.org: add three new books
11:41 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/355a391757
11:42 Geth ¦ perl6.org: 3c3533cc65 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/resources/index.html
11:42 Geth ¦ perl6.org: add status
11:42 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/3c3533cc65
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12:15 Geth ¦ perl6.org: 20c21ec18c | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/resources/index.html
12:15 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Reword
12:15 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/20c21ec18c
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12:22 araraloren evening
12:24 moritz hello araraloren
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12:31 araraloren moritz, hi, Did you see that code ?
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12:32 moritz araraloren: I see lots of code each day, but I don't know if I saw the one you are talking about :-)
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12:33 araraloren OH, That's about write parent class attribute: https://github.com/araraloren/perl6-getopt-advance/blob/master/lib/Getopt/Advance/Option.pm6#L180
12:34 araraloren I can write parent attribute such as `$!value`
12:35 araraloren s/can/can not/
12:45 moritz why not?
12:45 moritz it's a public attribute, and you can set it through the constructor
12:48 perlpilot araraloren: The `$!value` form is private to the class in which it is declared, if you want to access that attribute outside of the class (even via inheritance), you need to use the `$.value` (public) form.
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12:58 araraloren moritz, perlpilot thanks, I change it to role now
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13:57 * zengargoyle reckons no live-stream from YAPC::NA this year, goes back to watching cartoons and reading moritz's book. :)
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13:59 perlpilot I was just asking my coworker who is there about live-streaming .... he didn't know, but figuring for the "security" in the building probably not.
14:00 [Coke] lots of 'make xtest' failures in docs.
14:00 [Coke] xt/trailing-whitespace.t; xt/perl-nbsp.t; xt/space-after-comma.t; xt/examples-compilation.t; xt/aspell.t
14:01 zengargoyle irc chatter is a lot of bad wifi, blocked ports, and people having to tether...  but they did mention some cameras earlier so i'll hold up hope for eventual recordings.
14:01 [Coke] (some of those may be due to the proc piping bug. :|
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14:13 El_Che is yapc na being live streamed?
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14:15 mscha Quick question: is there a non-destructive version of splice?  (I.e., one that leaves the @list alone and returns the result of the splice?)
14:15 perlpilot mscha: that's just a slice
14:16 perlpilot m:  my @array = ^10;  say @array[5..8];
14:16 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «(5 6 7 8)␤»
14:16 mscha Yeah, but it gets ugly in more complicated cases.
14:17 perlpilot mscha: such as?
14:17 mscha flat @array[^$start], @replacement, @array[($start+$elems)..*]
14:20 jnthn Can always just .clone.splice(...)
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14:20 jnthn or write a sub of your own that does the "ugly" thing ;)
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14:23 mscha jnthn: .clone.splice doesn't make things less ugly (my @b = @a.clone; @b.splice(...); @b).  Writing my own sub is of course an option, but that's why I was asking - I was hoping that wasn't necessary.
14:24 jnthn my @b := @a.clone.splice(...)
14:25 jnthn Oh wait, splice returns the removed elements
14:28 raschipi mscha: What should it be called? ssplice?
14:33 mscha spliced?
14:37 mscha Or an extra flag to the existing splice routine perhaps.
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14:39 eveo m: say +[].^lookup("splice").candidates
14:39 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «31␤»
14:39 eveo Please no flags :)
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14:40 raschipi It should probably be implemented as a new routine that calls splice but returns a copy
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14:41 eveo In a module...
14:42 eveo m: my @a = ^4; my @b = do with [@a] { .splice: 2, 1, <a b c>; $_ }; dd @a, @b
14:42 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «Array @a = [0, 1, 2, 3]␤Array @b = [0, 1, "a", "b", "c", 3]␤»
14:45 eveo m: my @a = ^4; my @b = (.splice: 2, 1, <a b c>; $_).tail with [@a]; dd @a, @b
14:45 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «Array @a = [0, 1, 2, 3]␤Array @b = [0, 1, "a", "b", "c", 3]␤»
14:46 eveo m: my @a = ^4; (my @b = [@a]).splice: 2, 1, <a b c>; dd @a, @b
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «Array @a = [0, 1, 2, 3]␤Array @b = [0, 1, "a", "b", "c", 3]␤»
14:46 eveo mscha: ^ I think that's fairly un-ugly
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14:48 eveo \o
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14:49 mscha Well, here's what I'm doing: looping through an array with column 0, 1, ... removed.
14:49 mscha m:  my @a = ^5; for ^@a -> $c { say flat @a[^$c,$c^..*] }
14:49 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «(1 2 3 4)␤(0 2 3 4)␤(0 1 3 4)␤(0 1 2 4)␤(0 1 2 3)␤»
14:50 timotimo how about a slang that lets us annotate a parameter (at the callsite, not in the sub/method definition) that becomes the return value
14:50 mscha Having to use a temporary variable doesn't make that unuglier.  :-)
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14:51 mscha I wouldn't even mind having to use @a[^$c,$c^..*], but that's an array of arrays, so it needs a flat.
14:51 timotimo m:  my @a = ^5; for ^@a -> $c { say flat @a[(^*).grep(none($c))] }
14:51 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «(1 2 3 4)␤(0 2 3 4)␤(0 1 3 4)␤(0 1 2 4)␤(0 1 2 3)␤»
14:52 zengargoyle El_Che: nobody has explicitly stated that there will be recordings,  but i'm hopefull.  i don't thinke the USPTO location's network is even up to providing decent WiFi, much less live-streaming. :)
14:52 mscha That works too, but is slow for large lists.
14:53 mscha m: my @a = ^5; .say for @a.combinations(@a-1)  # Hmm, this might work...
14:53 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «(0 1 2 3)␤(0 1 2 4)␤(0 1 3 4)␤(0 2 3 4)␤(1 2 3 4)␤»
14:54 timotimo order not guaranteed
14:55 mscha That's true, although Rakudo plays nice at least.
14:55 timotimo yeah, we do have an algo in there that's predictable
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15:15 keylet can I use type declaration with "has"
15:15 keylet ?
15:15 keylet m: class A { has $.a = 2; };
15:15 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: ( no output )
15:15 keylet m: class A { has Int $.a = 2; };
15:16 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: ( no output )
15:16 araraloren_ yeah, you can
15:16 keylet m: class A { has Int $.a is rw; }; A.a = 'string';
15:16 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «Cannot look up attributes in a A type object␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
15:16 araraloren_ and Int is a type constraint
15:16 araraloren_ A is a type object, you should new a instance
15:16 araraloren_ m: class A { has Int $.a is rw; }; A.new.a = 'string';
15:17 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in assignment to $!a; expected Int but got Str ("string")␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
15:17 araraloren_ m: class A { has Int $.a is rw; }; A.new.a = 1;
15:17 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: ( no output )
15:17 keylet thanks!
15:17 keylet m: class A { has Int $.a is rw = 2; };
15:17 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: ( no output )
15:17 keylet m: class A { has Int is rw $.a = 2; };
15:17 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed has␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3class A { has Int7⏏5 is rw $.a = 2; };␤»
15:18 keylet m: class A { has Int $.a = 2 is rw; };
15:18 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3class A { has Int $.a = 27⏏5 is rw; };␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        s…»
15:18 perlpilot keylet: Are you a QA person normally?
15:28 keylet perlpilot: No, I'm a developer :)
15:29 perlpilot keylet: Your syntax permutations indicate you may have an aptitude for QA  ;)
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17:48 leont Currently assembling the list of presentations for Amsterdam, there will be perl6 talks
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17:56 user3 I want to predeclare a sub with its signature. why doesn't this work:
17:56 user3 m: f(Int $i); f(3); sub f(Int $i) { say $i }
17:56 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3f(Int7⏏5 $i); f(3); sub f(Int $i) { say $i }␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stop…»
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18:01 timotimo m: sub f(Int $i) { ... }; f(3); sub f(Int $i) { say $i }
18:01 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «3␤»
18:01 timotimo user3: ^
18:01 timotimo you forgot a "sub" in front and { ... } after the signature
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18:02 user3 m: sub f(Int $i) { .... }; f(3); sub f(Int $i) { say $i }
18:02 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unsupported use of . to concatenate strings; in Perl 6 please use ~␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub f(Int $i) { .... 7⏏5}; f(3); sub f(Int $i) { say $i }␤»
18:02 perlpilot user3: ETOOMANYDOTS
18:02 user3 m: sub f(Int $i) { ... }; f(3); sub f(Int $i) { say $i }
18:02 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «3␤»
18:02 user3 wow
18:05 user3 the first error message was not particular enlightening
18:05 geekosaur it's another example of errors prioritizing a perl 5 trap
18:05 perlpilot It's hard to guess what you meant though
18:06 user3 *particularly
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18:21 [Coke] samcv: in doc commit 0d4110870, you mention "userwide option above.", but userwide only appears once in the doc.
18:22 [Coke] (also "userwide" isn't a word, so it's failing the spelling check)
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18:23 user3 I have a file p.6 with these 2 lines:
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18:24 user3 multi MAIN('--help') { say 'this'; }
18:24 user3 multi MAIN() { say 'that'; }
18:24 user3 I can get the help message with: perl6 p.6 -- --help
18:24 user3 how can i get the same result with only: perl6 p.6 --help
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18:26 perlpilot user3: multi MAIN (:$help) { say 'this' }
18:26 [Coke] multi MAIN(:$help) { say 'this'; }
18:26 [Coke] so close. :)
18:26 user3 i have to define $help='--help' first, i assume
18:26 user3 but that seems a bit complicated
18:26 [Coke] no
18:26 [Coke] literally that line.
18:26 user3 oh
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18:27 [Coke] :$help in a signature means a named argument called help. when used in MAIN, named args translate as --options
18:27 geekosaur user3, you were writing it as "match a literal string normal parameter", you want "match as an option and set a flag if it is present"
18:27 geekosaur :$help is the syntax for the latter, it sets $help to True if --help was passed as an option
18:28 [Coke] if someone passed in --help there, it would be available in that sub as $help , with a value of True
18:28 [Coke] ... again, too slow. :|
18:28 * [Coke] goes back into lurk mode. :)
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18:29 geekosaur and in fact you don't need the second multi with that, you can test $help to see what to do
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18:30 user3 that works
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19:12 ufobat is there a tool for the sql file that will be created via --profile?
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19:17 * [Coke] has an idea for doc stuff: Make all doc only contributions to a branch (esp. edits through the web api); then all tests have to pass (including xt/) before merging it to master.
19:17 [Coke] (PRs should have to pass this already)
19:18 AlexDaniel unidump: 1a
19:18 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/e60498f323a61e7a98bdc18b3c7cbdc0
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19:29 eveo ufobat: none that I'm aware of
19:30 ufobat so it still makes sense to use tadziks qt tool and json
19:32 b2gills m: dd 'string'.split('') :skip-empty # no-one mentioned the :skip-empty adverb earlier
19:32 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «("s", "t", "r", "i", "n", "g").Seq␤»
19:33 eveo [Coke]: that sounds like a good way to stifle contributions, especially quick typo fixes. Who'll be testing the branches, considering travis times out half the time? Considering the stuff xt tests test isn't critical, IMO it'd make more sense to leave them alone and only work on them once in a while. In fact, I don't mind making it it part of the Rakudo release process to ensure the docs xt tests pass, if in
19:33 eveo exchange I can edit with web UI without being flagged for each typo. So this way, the typos, the tabs, spaces, non-nbsp Perl 6 and whatever else will at most surive for a month in the doc repo, and there'll be no barriers to contributions
19:34 eveo ufobat: you could work with MasterDuke++ to create a tool.
19:34 eveo buggable: eco DBIish
19:34 buggable eveo, DBIish 'Database connectivity for Perl 6': https://github.com/perl6/DBIish 3 other matching results: https://modules.perl6.org/#q=DBIish
19:36 ufobat eveo, my profiling foo is no more then using nytprof :/
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19:37 eveo There's an example of SQL query here (might be outdated, as IIRC columns were renamed): https://docs.perl6.org/language/performance.html#Profile_locally
19:38 Geth ¦ doc: a2d9188655 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/performance.pod6
19:38 Geth ¦ doc: Make SQL example easy to copy-paste
19:38 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a2d9188655
19:38 eveo TIL you can indent =begin =end things in POD6
19:40 ufobat huh! i "loose" my time in src/core/Lock.pm
19:41 eveo Hm? A typo somewhere?
19:42 eveo or.. you lose time
19:42 ufobat i mean.. it took far longer then it used to take, and i was wondering why
19:42 ufobat so i tried to profile it
19:43 eveo ufobat: you doing any .kill'ing? or $*KERNEL.signal calls?
19:43 ufobat and Settings::src/core/Lock.pm has a huge time in Exclusive Time
19:43 ufobat no, not really
19:43 ufobat i started to use Log::Any
19:43 eveo buggable: eco Log::Any
19:43 buggable eveo, Log::Any 'Generate and handle logs with pipelines, filters and formatters.': https://github.com/jsimonet/log-any
19:44 * eveo shrugs
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19:45 timotimo ufobat: time taken waiting for a lock to become free is in that number
19:45 eveo Ahh
19:46 ufobat *nod*
19:46 ufobat i just need to figure out which and why :)
19:46 eveo ufobat: is that with Bailador?
19:46 ufobat jup
19:47 ufobat using Log::Any increased the time for the test cases, round about double the time nwo
19:48 eveo ufobat: "now" do you mean by adding the module or by upgrading rakudo?
19:48 timotimo ufobat: https://github.com/timo/p6profiler-tools - this can generate a pretty svg from your stuff
19:48 timotimo also, you can use telemeh to figure out which threads are holding locks for how long
19:48 ufobat now be using Log::Any, not changeing rakudo
19:48 eveo Ah, *phew* :)
19:48 timotimo though it won't give you a "friendly" name for the threads involved
19:49 ufobat telemeh?
19:49 timotimo yup, if you Configure.pl your moarvm with --telemeh you get that
19:50 timotimo you can set MVM_TELEMETRY_LOG to a file
19:50 eveo Well, I see it's using a Channel for stuff and channel uses a lock to protect stuff, so that's probably where you're ghetting your src/core/Lock times from
19:50 timotimo the svg graph thing will tell you how much time in lock is spent when coming from what other function
19:50 * eveo relocates
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19:52 ufobat okay. i keep that in mind
19:53 ufobat ill try to mediate and test a bit to first understand what i am realyl doing ;)
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19:57 ufobat https://github.com/ufobat/log-any/blob/master/lib/Log/Any.pm6#L116 <- this place is were 50% of my adittional time comes from
19:58 timotimo you could use .starts-with instead of that regex match
19:59 timotimo i wonder if CLIENT:: can help you there
20:00 ufobat sorry, timotimo, i ment the whole unless block
20:00 ufobat maybe its the Backtrace.new that takes Locks as well?
20:00 timotimo i don't think it would
20:01 timotimo did you use the graphviz tool from the profiler tools on your sql data?
20:01 timotimo that would show you precisely where the lock time comes from
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20:04 ufobat not yet, i am installing dependencies
20:07 ufobat next dependecy ;)
20:08 ufobat however - providing :category("foo") reduced one testcase by 6sec
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20:12 timotimo i see
20:12 ufobat which binary am i supposed to use?
20:12 ufobat i am still on dependencies, but i am afarid i am running out of time today. and will continue tomorrow
20:14 ufobat s/binary/one of your scripts/
20:15 timotimo the graphviz one
20:15 timotimo the other one is so vastly unfinished that it hardly does anything
20:16 ufobat did i get this right, i run it directly on the sql thats dumped from profile-filename=03.sql ?
20:16 ufobat no
20:16 ufobat ah!
20:16 ufobat i need to import this into a sqlite db, right?
20:16 ufobat anyway, time over ;)
20:16 timotimo yeah, sqlite3 -init the_thing_it_spat_out foobar,sqlite
20:16 ufobat thank you all for the help
20:16 timotimo er, foobar.sqlite
20:17 timotimo or sqlite3?
20:17 timotimo yeah, .sqlite3 is the extension it wants
20:17 timotimo it could totally invoke sqlite3 for you if you feed it the text instead
20:19 Geth ¦ doc: c21bf569ef | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Iterator.pod6
20:19 Geth ¦ doc: Adjusted formatting
20:19 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c21bf569ef
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20:28 travis-ci Doc build errored. Zoffix Znet 'Make SQL example easy to copy-paste'
20:28 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244662786 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/fedda5e11be3...a2d9188655f4
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20:38 hythm hello, is there a website to execute perl6 code online?
20:40 moritz hythm: http://ideone.com does
20:40 lizmat wasn't there an .io site somewhere as well ?
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20:43 eveo huggable: glot.io
20:43 huggable eveo, Run Perl 6 in your browser: https://tio.run/nexus/perl6 or https://glot.io
20:44 eveo hythm: ^ these teo as well. Also, find any code example on perl6.party it's editable (uses glot.io under the hood)
20:44 hythm ideonde.com seems broken, ran say "Hello, World!" and still.... Waiting for compilation
20:45 hythm glot.io  works great, Thanks guys!
20:47 eveo Any time
20:48 eveo huggable: glot
20:48 huggable eveo, nothing found
20:48 eveo buggable: eco glot
20:48 buggable eveo, GlotIO 'Use glot.io API: pastebin allowing execution of code': https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-GlotIO
20:49 eveo ^ there's also a Perl 6 impl of its api
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21:09 travis-ci Doc build errored. Jan-Olof Hendig 'Adjusted formatting'
21:09 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244677549 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/a2d9188655f4...c21bf569ef52
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21:26 lizmat and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/06/19/2017-25-perl-6-books/
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21:38 El_Che lizmat: there is a "foo" befoe the "for ^1000"
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21:59 [Coke] eveo: sorry I wandered away; if they got fixed on the regular, I'd have nothing to complain about. I'm not seeing the doc site getting a ton of updates with the current setup, so I'm not sure who we'd be stifling. But we've had that argument before.
22:00 [Coke] I would rather have edits queued and reviewed than immediately pushed into production.
22:01 [Coke] A lot of that effort can be automated, and actually mirros the eventual plan for the rakudo repository that was proposed by jnthn around Christmas tmie.
22:01 [Coke] Not going to set anything up yet. I'll see if I can map something out that wouldn't impede proposed changes made through the UI.
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22:29 samcv if you do: run('echo', 'hi', :out); and don't set it to a variable. the filehandle will stay open FOREVER yes?
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22:41 eveo lizmat++ good weekly. A couple of corrections, if you have the time. The for ^N {} opt fix was done by timotimo++, not jnthn++, although jnthn++ did some work in that area as well ( https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/46b11f54c03511a96d4db08213d55bc9c78623c7 ). Also it's Proc that got a major overhaul (it's now written in terms of Proc::Async), I don't think Proc::Async got a rehaul (other than being fixed
22:41 yoleaux 22:17Z <AlexDaniel> eveo: so is RT #131592 resolved now?
22:41 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131592
22:41 eveo on JVM), just some std binding methods or so.
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22:42 eveo .tell AlexDaniel no, that ticket is for a segv that should be fixed soon. The stuff I fixed was for lost STDIN data and there wasn't a ticket and tests already existed (they were flopping)
22:42 yoleaux eveo: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
22:42 AlexDaniel .
22:42 yoleaux 22:42Z <eveo> AlexDaniel: no, that ticket is for a segv that should be fixed soon. The stuff I fixed was for lost STDIN data and there wasn't a ticket and tests already existed (they were flopping)
22:43 AlexDaniel ah okay
22:44 eveo samcv: no, all handles get closed when garbage collected and in this case it's just a Channel fed by on Proc::Async.stdout
22:44 samcv ok
22:44 samcv so if it's not stored in a variable it gets gcd
22:45 eveo I'm no expert, but I think so.
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22:46 eveo This is likely fixed now https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131026#ticket-history
22:48 eveo And this is fixed except for one case in bdfoy's code where stuff is given to perl6 -c I'm not sure why the code doesn't get set right; might be something with piping to /dev/null and maybe something to do with piping **perl 6's stderr to dev null** https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=125757#ticket-history
22:48 eveo m: say Date.new("2017-07-14") - Date.now
22:48 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «No such method 'now' for invocant of type 'Date'. Did you mean any of these?␤    new␤    not␤␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
22:48 eveo m: say Date.new("2017-07-14") - Date.todayu
22:48 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «No such method 'todayu' for invocant of type 'Date'. Did you mean 'today'?␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
22:48 eveo m: say Date.new("2017-07-14") - Date.today
22:48 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «24␤»
22:48 eveo .in 24d Zoffix fix xt on docbuild
22:48 yoleaux eveo: I'll remind you on 13 Jul 2017 22:48Z
22:50 lizmat eveo: corrections made, eveo++
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22:53 eveo [Coke]: I'll fix then all the xt tests as part of rakudo's release process. We might not have a whole load of contributions flying in, but still, it's pretty distracting to be called in to hunt for some typo, and *new contributors* who don't know much about our setup might be put off from contributing at all if the process is difficult (and keep in mind, contributors to docs might feel encouraged to contribute
22:53 eveo to other repos). The problem with the setup is there's no clear protocol for what to do *when stuff breaks*. Who fixes it? A contributor who might not appear for months? The setup jnthn++'s pre-Christmas proposal deliniates suffers from the same problem. As a commit might depend on nqp/MoarVM bumps + it's a bit tough to pin it to roast's state. I think the current system is sufficiently reliable: if a dev
22:53 eveo feels their commit might break something they do it in a branch.
22:54 eveo lizmat++ thanks
22:54 rouking joined #perl6
22:54 rouking Hey
22:54 eveo \o
22:55 rouking Wondering about some new syntax I haven't seen before--particularly the colon before post in this:
22:55 rouking `$request = HTTP::Request.new(:post($!base-url~$url));`
22:55 rouking $request = HTTP::Request.new(:post($!base-url~$url));
22:55 eveo + we have Toaster now that, if automated, can make nom branch even stabler
22:55 eveo rouking: it's new in Perl 6, but now new to Perl 6
22:55 eveo rouking: same as post => $!base-url~$url
22:56 eveo m: my $b = 'f'; my $u = 'oo'; say [post => $b ~ $u]
22:56 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «[post => foo]␤»
22:56 eveo huggable: colonpairs
22:56 huggable eveo, All the shortcuts of colonpairs: https://twitter.com/zoffix/status/839807414211854337
22:56 eveo rouking: colonpairs are ubiquitous in Perl 6, so there's lots of shortcuts to write them ^
22:58 * eveo calls it a day
22:58 eveo \o
22:58 eveo left #perl6
22:59 timotimo wait, Proc::Async.stdout uses channel? i would have expected supply (except if you just coerced that supply to a channel in which case that's splendid)
23:00 ugexe .tap: { $channel.send($_) }
23:00 timotimo no need for that
23:01 mcmillhj joined #perl6
23:01 timotimo m: my $s = supply { for ^20 { emit $_ } }; for $s.Channel -> $v { say "received $v" }
23:01 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «received 0␤received 1␤received 2␤received 3␤received 4␤received 5␤received 6␤received 7␤received 8␤received 9␤received 10␤received 11␤received 12␤received 13␤received 14␤received 15␤received 16␤received 17␤received 18…»
23:01 ugexe channel doesn't have a way to react to close/quit
23:02 ugexe .tap: { $channel.send($_) }, quit => { ... };
23:03 ugexe er, Proc::Async uses a supply afaik. but Proc uses the method above with a channel^
23:03 jnthn The Channel serves as a buffer
23:04 jnthn Since the reads are done synchronous, but Proc::Async is spewing stuff out as it arrives
23:04 jnthn So we shove it in the channel, and then synchronous reads just read off the channel, which nicely handles the blocking too.
23:05 ugexe why isn't .act used instead of .tap?
23:05 jnthn Sleep time; 'night o/
23:05 jnthn ugexe: Because they're the same almost always
23:06 jnthn (You *can* make a Supply that doesn't enforce delivering values one at a time, but you have to work pretty hard to make that happen.)
23:07 jnthn The only built-in way to achieve it is making a Supplier and calling something like .unsanitized-Supply
23:07 jnthn Everything else is a serial Supply
23:07 ugexe ah, i was thinking it would help with, say, .act: { $str ~= $_ }
23:08 jnthn No, for Proc::Async it doesn't matter if you use .tap or .act
23:09 ugexe cool, thanks
23:10 * jnthn looks at the thermometer, sighs, and figures he'll give sleep a go anyway...
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23:10 timotimo good luck!
23:10 jnthn 'night o/
23:10 timotimo i expect many of us in europe are going to have a bad time WRT sleep the next days ;(
23:11 mcmillhj joined #perl6
23:15 timotimo thursday it'll be 35 to 38 (feels like 39 to 42) deg celsius ;(
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