Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-06-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:41 lookatme morning
01:11 samcv morning lookatme
01:13 lookatme samcv, morning :)
01:13 samcv i fixed that collation thingy from yesterday :)
01:13 samcv gotta bump moar though
01:15 lookatme Em, you seem to be busy working on that all day
01:17 samcv yeah. i got done lying down trying to come up with the next stages. so that 'æ' will sort along with ae
01:17 samcv which is pretty neat. sometimes helps to step back from the computer and try and plan it out
01:19 samcv still haven't figured out 100% what data structure to store it so it can be quickly checked though. since there's cases where multiple codepoints have a special collation keys different from the codeponits individually. so i will need to check and see if it matches one of the special ones
01:19 samcv which is going to be tricky
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01:24 lookatme haha, awesome, good luck!
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01:48 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:17 [Coke]_ samcv: what is "userwide" ?
02:18 [Coke] https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/4b3297906eaca7a8dd1440c5d37bf49118f8fe26/doc/Language/unicode_entry.pod6#L53 ?
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02:21 [Coke] .tell samcv userwide is used in doc/Language/unicode_entry.pod6 but refers to something that doesn't exist. I added it to the list of words to quiet the spellchecker; if you remove it from the doc, please also remove it from xt/words.pws
02:21 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to samcv.
02:22 Geth ¦ doc/master: 5 commits pushed by (Will "Coke" Coleda)++
02:22 Geth ¦ doc/master: bd19cfd238 | remove trailing whitespace
02:22 Geth ¦ doc/master: 5b064242e4 | Check all pod files, allow list on command line
02:22 Geth ¦ doc/master: 7820889775 | use nbsp
02:22 Geth ¦ doc/master: c3958e1b01 | not perl6 code, don’t test it
02:22 Geth ¦ doc/master: 7eef25ad58 | fix typos, learn words
02:22 Geth ¦ doc/master: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/c21bf569ef...7eef25ad58
02:23 [Coke] anyone know what the segfault Proc RT is?
02:24 samcv [Coke], what do you mean about doesn't exist
02:24 yoleaux 02:21Z <[Coke]> samcv: userwide is used in doc/Language/unicode_entry.pod6 but refers to something that doesn't exist. I added it to the list of words to quiet the spellchecker; if you remove it from the doc, please also remove it from xt/words.pws
02:24 samcv i mean you want me to use a different word that passes spell check?
02:25 [Coke] you refer to it "above". there is no instance of it above.
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02:27 [Coke] (or anywhere else in doc/)
02:35 samcv ah
02:35 samcv it should say systemwide
02:35 samcv not userwide
02:35 [Coke] ah, thanks. want me to fix it?
02:35 samcv yeah that would be great
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02:40 Geth ¦ doc: 2b913053d4 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | 2 files
02:40 Geth ¦ doc: fix typo
02:40 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2b913053d4
02:40 ugexe perlpilot: i dunno if a bot still automatically changes meta.info -> meta6.json in the META.list
02:40 [Coke] samcv++
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02:49 samcv hopefully my tips there can help someone out
02:50 samcv since it took me some personal work to figure that out
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03:08 Geth ¦ doc: 82d7534112 | (Lloyd Fournier)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Str.pod6
03:08 Geth ¦ doc: Fix missing closing » in docs for Str.Int
03:08 Geth ¦ doc:
03:08 Geth ¦ doc: which was causing Str.parse-base's heading to disappear
03:08 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/82d7534112
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03:13 travis-ci Doc build errored. Will "Coke" Coleda 'fix typos, learn words'
03:13 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244769807 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/c21bf569ef52...7eef25ad580d
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03:30 travis-ci Doc build errored. Will "Coke" Coleda 'fix typo'
03:30 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244772740 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/7eef25ad580d...2b913053d4fb
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03:36 lookatme I have a script runing with old version(2017.05) rakudo, then I update rakudo to 2017.06, and rakudo throw an exception when script going on from **await Process**. Not a serious problem
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03:42 samcv m: my @files = (1,2,3).grep(/./) .flat.list».subst(/./, {"$0"})
03:42 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Missing « or »␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3 @files = (1,2,3).grep(/./) .flat.list».7⏏5subst(/./, {"$0"})␤»
03:42 samcv why doesn't this work?
03:42 samcv m: my @files = (1,2,3).grep(/./).flat.list».subst(/./, {"$0"})
03:42 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: OUTPUT: «Use of Nil in string context␤  in block  at <tmp> line 1␤Use of Nil in string context␤  in block  at <tmp> line 1␤Use of Nil in string context␤  in block  at <tmp> line 1␤»
03:42 samcv this is not an exact example but close of some code i'm writing. the problem is i need to split the methods accoss lines to make it look nicer, since there's a ton of methods
03:43 samcv but it won't let me separate them
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03:46 ugexe use unspace
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03:48 ugexe .grep(/./)\ \n .flat.list...
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03:59 travis-ci Doc build errored. Lloyd Fournier 'Fix missing closing » in docs for Str.Int
03:59 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244777119 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/2b913053d4fb...82d753411238
03:59 travis-ci left #perl6
04:06 llfourn_ "The job exceeded the maximum time limit for jobs, and has been terminated." on the docs build
04:07 raschipi Yeah, every time travis complains about a doc build it's because it timed out.
04:08 llfourn_ raschipi: hmmm
04:08 llfourn I restarted it to see if we have luck the second time
04:09 raschipi samcv gets annoyed by it: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-06-19#i_14752330
04:10 llfourn :)
04:10 llfourn I guess we have to build it somewhere else?
04:10 llfourn or make it faster...
04:10 llfourn maybe can we not build rakudo before building the docs
04:11 llfourn but just use a binary
04:11 llfourn or docker container
04:11 raschipi which distro does it runs on?
04:11 llfourn raschipi: ubuntu I think
04:12 raschipi ubuntu will get a newishbinary rakudo from debian now that it got unfrozen.
04:12 llfourn ill put an issue on the repo to discuss good idea
04:16 raschipi A PPA could also be set up and make fresh binary rakudos available for travis to use
04:16 raschipi This way the docs build is tested, but also the doc compiler
04:18 llfourn raschipi: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1384 # ideas can go here :)
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04:57 travis-ci Doc build errored. Lloyd Fournier 'Fix missing closing » in docs for Str.Int
04:57 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244777119 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/2b913053d4fb...82d753411238
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05:45 [Coke] m: #`
05:45 camelia rakudo-moar 6b634a: ( no output )
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06:02 Geth ¦ doc: 3c7fe8afb7 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | xt/examples-compilation.t
06:02 Geth ¦ doc: Add support for ENV<P6_DOC_TEST_FUDGE>
06:02 Geth ¦ doc:
06:02 Geth ¦ doc: if set to a true value, will run all skip-test tests as TODOs,
06:02 Geth ¦ doc: allowing passing code snippets to be identified, :skip-test removed
06:02 Geth ¦ doc:
06:02 Geth ¦ doc: Resolves #1377
06:02 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3c7fe8afb7
06:02 Geth ¦ doc: 0b5126a577 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | 59 files
06:02 Geth ¦ doc: unfudge many unneeded :skip-tests
06:02 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0b5126a577
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06:08 Geth ¦ doc: 3a1c8f8864 | (Samantha McVey)++ | 2 files
06:08 Geth ¦ doc: [unicode-grant] add info on parse-names to unicode page
06:08 Geth ¦ doc:
06:08 Geth ¦ doc: Also link to the Unicode page from the Language/quoting
06:08 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3a1c8f8864
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06:45 Geth ¦ doc: 17ad67fd63 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | 2 files
06:45 Geth ¦ doc: test traps file for compilable code
06:45 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/17ad67fd63
06:45 Geth ¦ doc: f65904cf2e | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Language/traps.pod6
06:45 Geth ¦ doc: format with OUTPUT, avoid command line invocations
06:45 Geth ¦ doc:
06:45 Geth ¦ doc: Add a skip reason for non-perl6 code.
06:45 Geth ¦ doc:
06:45 Geth ¦ doc: Resolves #1386
06:46 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f65904cf2e
06:46 Geth ¦ doc: 586958da17 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Language/unicode.pod6
06:46 Geth ¦ doc: fix grammar-o
06:46 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/586958da17
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06:52 travis-ci Doc build errored. Will "Coke" Coleda 'unfudge many unneeded :skip-tests'
06:52 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244806794 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/82d753411238...0b5126a5772e
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06:53 [Coke] regarding the travis doc builds, see also: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/788
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06:59 travis-ci Doc build errored. Samantha McVey '[unicode-grant] add info on parse-names to unicode page
06:59 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244807941 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/0b5126a5772e...3a1c8f8864eb
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07:36 travis-ci Doc build errored. Will "Coke" Coleda 'fix grammar-o'
07:36 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244815804 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/3a1c8f8864eb...586958da170e
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07:43 * lizmat clickbaits https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/06/19/2017-25-perl-6-books/
07:44 moritz lizmat++
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07:52 lookatme lizmat++
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08:06 keylet is it possible to get SQLite database schema with DBIish?
08:07 keylet table foo(quick int, brown text, fox text) etc.
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08:15 samcv this can't do at all
08:15 Geth ¦ doc: d5f31ba0f3 | (Samantha McVey)++ | .travis.yml
08:15 Geth ¦ doc: [travis-ci]: enable caching some directories to speed up build
08:15 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d5f31ba0f3
08:15 samcv hopefully i can get the build actually completing in time
08:15 samcv keylet, haven't tried it but i'm pretty sure you can use SQLite with DBIish
08:15 samcv almost certain
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08:56 * moritz has done so several times
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09:05 travis-ci Doc build errored. Samantha McVey '[travis-ci]: enable caching some directories to speed up build'
09:05 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244839079 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/586958da170e...d5f31ba0f33f
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09:06 geekosaur "welp"
09:06 samcv hmm i wonder if it uploads even if the build timesout
09:06 * samcv restarts the build
09:07 samcv may need to edit travis to not build the docs so it will cache rakudo/highlighter/modules installed
09:07 samcv and hopefully get the time down
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09:10 llfourn samcv: not to build the docs? isn't that the point of it?
09:10 samcv it is
09:10 samcv but it times out before finishing. and i just enabled caching
09:10 samcv so i think it's not uploading the cache
09:10 llfourn ahhh
09:11 llfourn so you can't cache because it doesn't finish because it hasn't cached?
09:11 samcv yes :)
09:12 samcv we have never had caching, but the continuing timeouts seem to be telling me to do it...
09:12 llfourn yep caching the precomp should shave a few mins of the build at least
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09:13 llfourn but having said that it will nuke the precomp everytime we have a new build
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09:13 llfourn we have an issue here btw: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1384#issuecomment-309640682
09:13 samcv yeah there are downsides like that but
09:14 samcv have to start somewhere
09:14 samcv also can not recompile unless rakudo has changed
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09:57 travis-ci Doc build errored. Samantha McVey '[travis-ci]: enable caching some directories to speed up build'
09:57 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244839079 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/586958da170e...d5f31ba0f33f
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10:05 pmurias what's the difference between the UCD and Unicode-Grant repos?
10:11 Geth Swapped META.info → META6.json in 6 dists in https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/cdbcf109cc
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10:28 Ven`` are precompiled files system-dependant?
10:28 Ven`` i.e. https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/274e7c04138945a66cb27d2b6263314d1bcf9798#diff-46c614d02a521f19ca1434a0bc674546R15 let's say this got precompiled, could this be an issue if the precompiled files got to another computer?
10:30 jnthn Ven``: In this case it wouldn't be because lexicals in non-closure situations aren't serialized, so this will be set up at startup each time.
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10:31 jnthn In genearl, though, yes, if you share precomps between machines, you can hit issues
10:31 jnthn *general
10:32 jnthn Or put another way, if you want portable pre-comp output, you need to be careful what you do at compile time :)
10:33 Ven`` Thanks :).
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10:45 Geth ¦ doc: 82b77a11e6 | (Samantha McVey)++ | .travis.yml
10:45 Geth ¦ doc: [travis-ci] disable doc build temporarily
10:45 Geth ¦ doc:
10:45 Geth ¦ doc: Hopefully we can get the build files cached this way
10:45 Geth ¦ doc: and the build won't timeout.
10:45 Geth ¦ doc:
10:45 Geth ¦ doc: Also disable the OS X build which was never useful anyway.
10:45 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/82b77a11e6
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11:00 travis-ci Doc build passed. Samantha McVey '[travis-ci] disable doc build temporarily
11:00 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244885433 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/d5f31ba0f33f...82b77a11e618
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11:04 Geth ¦ doc: 03b510a9ab | (Samantha McVey)++ | .travis.yml
11:04 Geth ¦ doc: [travis-ci] add back build
11:04 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/03b510a9ab
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11:22 robertle is there a clever way to check if a IO::Path is "under" another one? I can of course recurse on .parent until I have reached the root, but there must be a better way...
11:23 nine_ robertle: $child.Str.starts-with($root.Str)? Depends on how many real world cases you need to cover. Symlinks can make this a mess.
11:24 robertle nine_: ok, I can resolve() both of them to sort out the symlinks (?) but I think I need to cover most cases, this could be a security problem otherwise
11:27 nine_ robertle: ok, if security is an issue, forget my suggestion :) Can you re-define your problem maybe? Could you change it so, instead of having two absolute path, you only have one absolute root and relative paths?
11:28 robertle totally, good idea
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11:30 eveo buggable: eco secure
11:30 buggable eveo, IO::Path::ChildSecure 'Secure version of IO::Path.child': https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-IO-Path-ChildSecure
11:30 eveo robertle: ^
11:31 xtreak joined #perl6
11:32 eveo And
11:32 eveo And .Str is a wrong way to stringify a path
11:35 robertle ah, great
11:35 eveo https://docs.perl6.org/language/io-guide#Stringifying_IO::Path
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11:43 eveo and no, meta.info -> meta6.json script no longer runming in cron
11:44 eveo I just run it manually once in a blue moon
11:44 eveo buggable: eco
11:44 buggable eveo, Out of 843 Ecosystem dists, 0 have warnings, 6 have errors, and 0 have no tags in META file. See https://modules.perl6.org/update.log for details
11:45 eveo tis the 6 that got fixed now
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11:54 travis-ci Doc build errored. Samantha McVey '[travis-ci] add back build'
11:54 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/244891299 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/82b77a11e618...03b510a9abd3
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12:13 [Coke] (docs) I un-skipped a bunch of tests last night. have one that is now :skip-test<perl5> - going to change that to :lang<perl5>, and then we will skip code with skip-test and any :lang that isn't perl6 (so we can annotate the ruby & haskell files as well, which are half each; we could then also have a prayer of the syntax highlighter being right for langs other than perl6.
12:13 [Coke] s/of tests/of example code/
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12:51 pmurias why doesn't docs.perl6.org searchbox find the &val sub?
12:53 ilmari pmurias: https://docs.perl6.org/routine/val is there, quite a way down
12:53 ilmari under "Sub"
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13:15 TimToady hi everyone, yer up on the screen at TPC::NA
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13:15 moritz \o
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13:16 moritz I guess now would be a good time to run some text-based ads, right? :-)
13:16 El_Che TPC
13:16 El_Che I liked YAPC better :)
13:16 tadzik o/
13:16 TimToady now we're "tipsy"
13:17 tadzik Hm, are the talks streamed?
13:17 perlpilot_ As long as TPC doesn't turn into another OSCON we're doing good :)
13:17 El_Che haha
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13:22 tbrowder o/
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13:24 TimToady just recorded, not live, afaik
13:24 * sjn wishes they were streamed
13:25 sjn btw, does TPF have an irc channel?
13:26 dmaestro sjn: [ssl.]irc.perl.org - ports are listed on www.irc.perl.org
13:26 dmaestro The ports are blocked at USPTO, though :-(
13:26 perlpilot I would guess a TPF channel would be awfully quiet
13:27 dmaestro #yapc
13:27 dmaestro ;-)
13:27 sjn yeah. I see there's a #tpf on freenoode with obra and ingy in it. :)
13:27 TimToady twitter tag is #tpc2017dc
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13:37 obra sjn: I'm happy to part if you want :)
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13:55 araraloren hi
13:56 araraloren How Can I hold a reference of another variable/object in class ?
13:59 timotimo well, objects you can easily reference
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13:59 araraloren Can you show me some example ?
14:00 moritz m: my $x = 1/3; $x is a reference to a Rat
14:00 camelia rakudo-moar f03a17: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my $x = 1/3; $x7⏏5 is a reference to a Rat␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        statement end␤        statement modif…»
14:00 moritz m: my $x = 1/3; # $x is a reference to a Rat
14:00 camelia rakudo-moar f03a17: ( no output )
14:00 araraloren m: class F { has $.ref is rw; }; my $f = F.new; $f.ref := 3;
14:00 camelia rakudo-moar f03a17: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3ref is rw; }; my $f = F.new; $f.ref := 37⏏5;␤»
14:01 timotimo m: class Holder { has $.reference }; my $foo = [1, 2, 3]; my $h = Holder.new(reference => $foo); say $h.perl; $foo[2] = 99; say $h.perl
14:01 camelia rakudo-moar f03a17: OUTPUT: «Holder.new(reference => $[1, 2, 3])␤Holder.new(reference => $[1, 2, 99])␤»
14:01 pmurias the YAPC::EU rakudo.js talk has been accepted :)
14:01 perlpilot pmurias: congrats!
14:03 [Coke] if we have perl6-gdb-m, I wonder if we should also have perl6-lldb-m
14:03 [Coke] pmurias++
14:03 araraloren m: class Holder { has $.reference }; my $foo = [1, 2, 3]; my $h = Holder.new(reference => $foo); say $h.perl; $foo.push(42); say $h.perl
14:03 camelia rakudo-moar f03a17: OUTPUT: «Holder.new(reference => $[1, 2, 3])␤Holder.new(reference => $[1, 2, 3, 42])␤»
14:04 raschipi Everything is reference. You get a reference, you get a reference, everyone gets a reference!
14:05 araraloren m: class Holder { has $.reference }; my $foo = [1, 2, 3]; my $h = Holder.new(reference => $foo); say $h.perl; $foo = "123"; say $h.perl
14:05 camelia rakudo-moar f03a17: OUTPUT: «Holder.new(reference => $[1, 2, 3])␤Holder.new(reference => $[1, 2, 3])␤»
14:06 araraloren Oh, That's make sense, thanks timotimo
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16:18 awwaiid In case anyone is here at TPC-2017-DC aka YAPC, there's a BOF tonight for perl6 -- https://github.com/dcbpw/tpc-2017-dc/wiki#bofs
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16:38 tbrowder see you at BOF, awwaiid
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16:45 ruoso I briefly mentioned my idea for a web action dispatching framework after the talk about handling subcommands in MAIN... I decided to make a small proof of concept of how that would look like... https://gist.github.com/anonymous/e52cfc09d2476bbf8010a8b40a9984c0 what do you folks think of that approach?
16:46 ruoso Of course this would be wrapped in some nicer syntax and things would have proper type names and stuff, but I wanted to see some early feedback on the concept
16:48 moritz ruoso: I've considered the same approach; it has a few downsides
16:48 moritz one is that tie breaking becomes pretty hard to do
16:48 moritz from a Perl 6 type perspective, both a literal and a regex are just constraints, so you can't say that a literal binds tighter than a regex
16:49 ruoso well, but if you have ambiguous resolution within each of those steps, I'd say the app has some design issues
16:50 ruoso because you need to be ambiguous afte the resolution of earlier parts of the request path were already resolved
16:50 moritz maybe
16:50 moritz but still, you're tied to the design of the multi dispatcher
16:50 moritz which might or might not be a good fit for route dispatching
16:50 ruoso which scenario do you think this would fall apart?
16:51 moritz maybe if you model request types as enum types, you get easier ANY vs. GET dispatching
16:52 ruoso well, the signature could say any('GET', 'POST')... but I don't think I ever came across a situation where I would handle both methods with the same action
16:52 moritz ruoso: I don't know, but since you aren't using types, you don't take advantage of the topological sorting
16:52 moritz so you're back to just arity and constraints
16:52 ruoso well, the strings here are just a placeholder
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16:53 ruoso "foo handler" would be a type that describes the context built up to that point
16:53 moritz I've used the same handlers for GET and for POST in several web apps already
16:53 moritz ah, that changes things
16:53 ruoso hmm... now I'm curious... what's the use case?
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16:54 moritz normal web pages with forms, for example
16:54 moritz on the initial GET, you load the form
16:55 moritz on POST, you validate, and if validation fails, you need to build the same form again
16:56 moritz so the difference between GET and POST is pretty small, and putting them in the same handler (with a small case distinction) can be a good tradeoff
16:56 ruoso I see... yeah, any('GET', 'POST') could make sense... but most likely I would declare both and just have the GET do a straight forward to the view, while the POST would do the validation and then forward to the view otherwise
16:56 moritz also, a search page that allows you both to submit the form, or to supply the search terms through the URL
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16:57 ruoso although that is usually only via GET, because you don't want POST resubmission in those cases
16:58 moritz YMMV :-)
16:58 ruoso the thing that I'm missing on this, tho, is the method not supported
16:58 ruoso as it is now, this would actually give a 404 on a non-supported method instead of the proper error code
16:59 ruoso but I guess a higher-level framework could generate default handlers for the other methods that return the error code instead
16:59 moritz and now you're working around limitations
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17:00 ruoso well, sure, nothing is perferct
17:00 ruoso not even my typing
17:03 raschipi Those limitations can be worked around by doing own dispatch, right? P6 is handy when it fits but it's always possible to have a dispatch table.
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17:06 ruoso well, but the point of this exercise would be to delegate the dispatch to the multi itself, rather than having to implement that myself...
17:10 ugexe if both get and post need to load some data, why not put the loading code in the proto, have the get dispatch be essentially empty other than the render call and post can do validation on the data still
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17:20 ruoso ugexe: my usual pattern with Catalyst is to have an intermediate action that loads the data, and then a final action that acts on it on the specific method
17:21 ruoso on that mockup, the one that returns "foo handler" is the one doing the loading, then you have a separate action that is the "final" action on the chain
17:25 ruoso side question: do we have a pre-declared subset of Str where it can be numified to an Int?
17:25 ugexe proto foobar { do_init_stuff(); {*}; do_cleanup_stuff(); }
17:26 timotimo i don't think we do
17:26 timotimo m: subset NumyString of Str where +*; say "hello" ~~ NumyString; say "99" ~~ NumyString
17:26 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «False␤True␤»
17:27 ugexe m: my $x = <2>; say $x.perl; # cant use IntStr somehow to do it?
17:27 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «IntStr.new(2, "2")␤»
17:27 lizmat ruoso: there's allomorphs (aka IntStr)
17:27 lizmat m: dd <42>
17:27 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «IntStr.new(42, "42")␤»
17:27 timotimo but strings that look like int don't turn into IntStr by themselves
17:28 ruoso m: multi foo(IntStr $f) { say $f }; foo("42")
17:28 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «Cannot resolve caller foo(Str); none of these signatures match:␤    (IntStr $f)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
17:28 timotimo of course you can just have a coercive type constraint
17:28 raschipi m: multi foo(Str(IntStr) $f) { say $f }; foo("42")
17:28 timotimo m: multi foo(Int() $a) { say $a }; foo("99")
17:28 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «Resource temporarily unavailable»
17:28 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «99␤»
17:29 timotimo m: multi foo(Int() $a) { say $a }; foo("oh my god")
17:29 ruoso ah, I was wondering if there was a way to do that
17:29 ruoso that's actually even better
17:29 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «Resource temporarily unavailable»
17:29 timotimo m: multi foo(Int() $a) { say $a }; foo("oh my god")
17:29 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5oh my god' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
17:29 timotimo oh, huh, that throws, eh?
17:30 ugexe can we monkey patch coercion methods into core classes and have it work?
17:31 ugexe that'd probably affect everything though
17:31 ruoso oh, indeed, that doesn't act as a subset
17:31 raschipi m: multi foo(Int(Str) $a) { say $a }; foo(23)
17:31 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in binding to parameter '$a'; expected Str but got Int (23)␤  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
17:34 raschipi Numeric(Str) is a signature will do that, it will only accept strings that can be turned into a number.
17:35 ruoso raschipi: but it aborts the whole thing instead of failing with X::Multi::NoMatch
17:35 SmokeMachine hi there! Does any one know if is there any HTTP2 client being implemented?
17:36 raschipi m: say "4200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000+30000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000i".Numeric
17:36 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «4.2e+57+3e+52i␤»
17:36 raschipi That's confusing...
17:36 ruoso m: subset StrToInt of Str where +*; multi foo(Int(StrToInt) $f) { say $f }; foo("42");
17:36 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «===SORRY!===␤Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Null; VMNull)␤»
17:37 ruoso huh, that just worked locally here
17:39 ruoso well, that exactly thing fails, but the more elaborate case works
17:39 raschipi m: subset StrToInt of Str where {+$_}; multi foo(Int(StrToInt) $f) { say $f }; foo("42"); #This way the error is different
17:39 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «Use of uninitialized value of type Str in numeric context␤  in block  at <tmp> line 1␤42␤»
17:40 * ruoso preparing a rakudobug
17:40 ruoso or do we do github this days?
17:40 raschipi rakudobug
17:40 raschipi github for docs, roast
17:42 ruoso #131610
17:42 synopsebot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=131610
17:42 ugexe SmokeMachine: im not aware of one
17:42 ruoso there's libCurl
17:43 ugexe SmokeMachine: something that could handle multiple streams (per the spec) would be really cool
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17:43 SmokeMachine ugexe: yes, it would! :)
17:44 ruoso just yesterday we had a talk here on how awesome just using the native libcurl was
17:44 SmokeMachine curl does "accept" v2, right?!
17:45 ugexe ==>> (NYI) seems like it would be nice for writing that type of stream stuff
17:45 ruoso SmokeMachine: it has support for it, but I'm not sure if it's enabled by default on most builds
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17:47 cowens can someone explain what the output from buf8.new(0x65, 0xCC, 0x81).decode("utf8-c8").ords.fmt("U+%04x") means?
17:48 [Coke] m: say buf8.new(0x65, 0xCC, 0x81).decode("utf8-c8").ords.fmt("U+%04x")
17:48 camelia rakudo-moar 79ce1a: OUTPUT: «U+0065 U+10fffd U+0078 U+0043 U+0043 U+10fffd U+0078 U+0038 U+0031␤»
17:49 cowens U+0065 is obviously e, but why is \x[301] turned into U+10fffd U+0078 U+0043 U+0043 U+10fffd U+0078 U+0038 U+0031?
17:51 geekosaur https://docs.perl6.org/language/unicode#UT8-C8
17:52 cowens thanks, I couldn't find that through the search or Google
17:52 geekosaur it was just added yesterday
17:52 geekosaur c8's been in there a while but actually getting docs for it ...
17:52 cowens I guess it hasn't been indexed yet then (I was just searching for it)
17:53 [Coke] I don't think that answers the question though.
17:54 [Coke] (I mean, it describes the U+10fffd; but not why it's showing up in this decode, neh?)
17:54 geekosaur well, it doesnt answer why it got decoded that way
17:54 [Coke] m: say buf8.new(0x65, 0xCC, 0x81).decode("utf8").ords.fmt("U+%04x")
17:54 camelia rakudo-moar 640404: OUTPUT: «U+00e9␤»
17:55 geekosaur yeh, best I can figure is the normalization thing... except that I expected ^ to be the normalized form
17:55 geekosaur some test inverted?
17:55 geekosaur samcv, ping?
17:55 samcv yeah?
17:55 geekosaur oh wait, nio
17:55 timotimo when you go through the decoder to get a str, you'll have NFG
17:55 geekosaur that is correct
17:55 geekosaur 65+a modifier is not normalized
17:56 geekosaur so it gets converted to something that round-trips
17:56 cowens Note: that doc incorrectly has the header UT8-C8 instead of UTF8-C8
17:56 geekosaur yeh
17:56 cowens unless I am crazy
17:56 timotimo .o( unreal tournament 8 )
17:56 geekosaur sorry samcv, it's fine, I was just confused a moment about what c8 was up to
17:57 geekosaur cowens, note that utf8-c8 is not general use, it's for when something *must* round-trip identically
17:57 geekosaur so things that would normally get normalized (e.g. 65 CC 81 -> E9) have to be encoded to prevent normalization
17:58 geekosaur this is often important when working with POSIX APIs, since they are bytestrings --- if a filename contains that sequence, you must NOT normalize it, that would represent a different file
17:59 raschipi they are that way to be locale agnostic
17:59 raschipi locale here meaning encoding
17:59 geekosaur yes
17:59 cowens I am probably reading it wrong, but it sounds like I should be able to say: buf8.new(0x65, 0xCC, 0x81).decode("utf8-c8").encode, but that is obviously wrong
17:59 geekosaur you really do not want a file to be accessible or not depending on the user's preferred encoding
18:00 cowens buf8.new(0x65, 0xCC, 0x81).decode("utf8-c8").encode("utf8-c8") works though
18:00 geekosaur right, because that is what c8 encoding is for
18:00 cowens so you have to know the string is in utf8-c8
18:01 geekosaur but you have to know that anyway because it's only intended for specific uses where you must be able to roundtrip
18:01 cowens is there a way to get that information from the Str?
18:01 geekosaur no? Str is always NFG
18:02 cowens That is all cases for me (I have unnormalized files that should not be changed to NFC due to other systems expecting the original codepoints minus whatever I explicitly change)
18:02 geekosaur ... but you can look for that 10fffd marker to see if it required utf8-c8
18:03 geekosaur if the marker is not there then nothing special needed to be done and the NFG one will reproduce the original filename
18:03 cowens So U+10FFFD is only used to mean UTF8-C8
18:03 geekosaur yes
18:03 cowens and if a file contains U+10FFFD it will be wrapped as well?
18:04 geekosaur that depends on how you are handling the file
18:04 cowens assuming it gets read in as :bin
18:05 geekosaur there is no magic, anywhere, that accurately tracks and reproduces encodings. files do not have associated encodings, they are byte strings.
18:05 cowens and then decoded as "utf8-c8"
18:05 geekosaur if you read as :bin then you have a stream of bytes (ideally this would be a buf8)
18:16 cowens based on the docs, I would expect 65 CC 81 to become one glyph, that looks like ?x65 ?xCC ?81 not the e ?xCC ?81 that is actually returned
18:17 cowens strike glyph and replace with grapheme
18:17 cowens very tired
18:17 geekosaur but the 65 is a perfectly cromulent grapheme
18:17 cowens s/grapheme/synthetic grapheme/
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18:19 moritz m: say Buf.new(0x65, 0xCC, 0X81).decode('utf-8').chars
18:19 camelia rakudo-moar 640404: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say Buf.new(0x65, 0xCC, 07⏏5X81).decode('utf-8').chars␤    expecting any of:␤        whitespace␤»
18:19 cowens But for purposes of working with graphemes, but not losing the original codepoints, it is less useful
18:19 moritz m: say Buf.new(0x65, 0xCC, 0x81).decode('utf-8').chars
18:19 camelia rakudo-moar 640404: OUTPUT: «1␤»
18:19 moritz it is one grapheme
18:19 cowens the grapheme is e + combining acute
18:19 moritz m: say Buf.new(0x65, 0xCC, 0x81).decode('utf-8')
18:19 camelia rakudo-moar 640404: OUTPUT: «é␤»
18:19 moritz looks fine here
18:20 cowens Except you just lost the the fact that it is a combining acute in the source
18:20 cowens Which is why I am trying to use utf8-c8 in the decode
18:20 cowens but it breaks the grapheme cluster
18:20 moritz didn't you just say that you want that?
18:21 cowens m: buf8.new(0x65, 0xCC, 0x81).decode("utf8-c8").chars
18:21 camelia rakudo-moar 640404: ( no output )
18:21 cowens m: buf8.new(0x65, 0xCC, 0x81).decode("utf8-c8").chars.say
18:21 camelia rakudo-moar 640404: OUTPUT: «3␤»
18:21 cowens Well, if we are going with what I want, I want to be able to round trip a file that isn't normalized
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18:22 cowens I also want to be able to work at the grapheme level
18:22 cowens I am trying to understand if utf8-c8 gets me that, and it looks like it doesn't
18:22 moritz that's correct
18:22 cowens It is close, but not quite what I want
18:23 moritz you could keep the original Buf around
18:23 raschipi cowens: I think we're having an XY here
18:23 raschipi tell us what you really want
18:24 geekosaur if you're having to resort to c8, you have already lost on the grapheme front
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18:24 cowens File contains unnormalized (but valid) UTF-8
18:25 raschipi And why can't you normalize it?
18:25 cowens I want to be able to run Perl 6 code against that file then write it out without losing the unnormalized nature of the file (unless the Perl 6 code explicitedly changed it).
18:26 cowens Generally, because a legacy system expects it to be the same as it was (modulo the changes explictedly made)
18:26 cowens think passwords/usernames in config files
18:27 cowens natural keys in databases
18:27 cowens etc
18:28 cowens In a perfect world, the grapheme cluster is all that matters, but not all systems compare Unicode strings correctly
18:28 geekosaur those are generally disasters waiting to happen anyway
18:28 cowens Hence the need for UTF8-C*
18:28 geekosaur I mean, for that password, all you need is one system that always normalizes typed input
18:28 cowens whoops, UTF8-C8
18:28 geekosaur and suddenly they cannot log in on that system
18:29 cowens yep, that is the messy world we live in, but unfortunately you can't always get access to fix everything
18:29 raschipi But you want to deal with it at the grapheme level, what operation you want to do at the grapheme level?
18:29 cowens Anything I would normally do with Str
18:30 cowens but in general subst, rules, etc
18:31 cowens Buf is a pain and Uni has nothing in it
18:31 raschipi Those should be done at the byte level in a file like that
18:31 moritz I have occasionally also wished for a way to do proper regex stuff with Uni, for example
18:31 moritz parsing a data format you don't have control over is a PITA with Str semantics
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18:31 moritz like my first JSON grammar failed on quoted strings whose first character was a combining character
18:32 lizmat moritz: I still think that we could have that if we had a way to convert a buffer into a Str with all synthetics, and a way to express that in code
18:32 cowens Uni is almost the right level, and so long as it has Perl 5's \X feature it would be fine
18:32 lizmat aka, a synthetic for each byte
18:32 lizmat and something like \byte(42) to refer to the synthetic of bytes with the value 42
18:34 raschipi lizmat: Wouldn't a index([ ]) do ?
18:35 lizmat that returns an Int
18:35 lizmat or Nil
18:35 lizmat that's not a synthetic codepoint
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18:42 moritz lizmat: that's an interesting idea; I'll have to ponder that for a while
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18:51 [Coke] (Uni) the last time this conversation came up, Uni was pointed at as the solution-which-isn't-there-yet.
18:51 jnthn Uni is meant to fill this niche, it's just way under-implemented.
18:52 jnthn But there's a lot of language design questions around it
18:52 jnthn Not to mention a lot of implementation ones
18:53 jnthn The regex engine being the most painful of them
18:54 moritz how feasible would it be to have a second type that fits the interfaces of all nqp::.*_s ops
18:55 jnthn Somewhat, but we need to think carefully about how we do it
18:56 jnthn I think probably we'd need a type distinction, so we can specialize it away
18:56 jnthn The problem is that every binary string op becomes questionable
18:57 jnthn If it's a uni and a str, what should the result be? etc.
18:57 jnthn In some cases we can say "no, we aren't going to do that"
18:57 jnthn I think at a Perl 6 level we'd want to introduce methods like subuni
18:57 jnthn To go with substr and subbuf
18:59 [Coke] (why are they not all called the same thing that doesn't have the type in it?)
18:59 perlpilot [Coke]: you were reading my mind.
18:59 jnthn Because the units you pass mean different things.
19:00 [Coke] that seems... reasonable. :)
19:00 jnthn And the expecting semantics are different
19:00 jnthn The O(...) of the operation and the expected return type also would iffer
19:00 jnthn And there's even more fun to decide here
19:01 jnthn If I do .substr on a Uni am I expecting it to interpret the indices as grapheme clusters and give me back a Uni?
19:01 jnthn Or am I expecting it to coerce it to a Str?
19:01 moritz or am I expecting an ENOTASTR?
19:02 jnthn The first seems more useful, and means that a Uni could thus have substr and subuni dealing in different units
19:02 jnthn Anyway, you can probably see from this why we haven't got around to dealing with this yet. :)
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19:02 jnthn There's so many semantic questions to figure out good and consistent answers to.
19:02 masak doing some casual Perl 6 programming in the evening, after having spent $work doing mostly JavaScript. huh, apparently we named our string-replacing method ".subst" :P
19:03 masak we do choose quirky names sometimes, do we not
19:03 moritz we do
19:03 nicq20 '.subst' and .substr' always throws me.
19:03 moritz frugal quantifiers!
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19:04 masak nicq20: clearly, ".substr" is the "r" form of ".subst" :P
19:04 masak moritz: that's one of the nicer quirks, though :>
19:04 masak moritz: no other language community (that I know of) has a term as nice as "frugal" for that
19:04 nicq20 masak: Ah, right! I keep forgetting that. :)
19:04 masak moritz: most (I think) go with "non-greedy"
19:04 * jnthn wonders if he's about to get stung by his beer, given that's clearly the r form of a bee
19:05 * moritz currently goes through all monospace fonts that LeanPub has to offer, in the hopes that one of them renders 「 and 」 correctly
19:05 masak jnthn: nono, a beer is an entity that has evolved "being" into an art form
19:06 masak moritz: talk about optimizing for a corner case :P :P :P
19:06 moritz masak: :D
19:07 moritz it's a pretty central case when talking about p6 regex and match objects though :(
19:07 [Coke] moritz: Source Code Pro?
19:07 moritz [Coke]: no luck :(
19:07 perlpilot I have sometimes wondered if we could rename `subst` or `substr` (or both) and make it better.
19:07 moritz [Coke]: maybe it's not the font though that's having problems
19:08 moritz perlpilot: `substitute` and `extract`
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19:08 masak or "replace" and "substring"
19:08 moritz (though `extract` maybe isn't stringy enough)
19:09 perlpilot `extract` would be fine if we /could/ combine all substr, subuni, subbuf into a single thing  ;-)
19:09 masak moritz: I remember when jQuery decided to call one of their flavors "jQuery compat" and everyone read it as "jQuery compact" (even though it wasn't smaller). I wonder if people would read "extract" as "exact" half of the time.
19:09 nicq20 Wow. Just realized 'subst' is short for 'substitute'.
19:09 masak nicq20: :D
19:09 moritz masak: I like substring and replace
19:10 jnthn Another fun misread I've seen a few people make is "Rakudo Start" - 'cus, you know, it's what you use to get started. :)
19:11 masak yes, that one ended up in blog posts and stuff
19:11 moritz <rant>I hate this! I'm already using a third-party tool for generating my books so that I don't have to worry about the toolchain, and here again I'm worrying about the tool chain instead of writing a chapter</rant>
19:11 timotimo Rakudo Tárte
19:11 ruoso I think I've hit a bug in recursive multis
19:12 raschipi moritz: you'll always have to mind your tools. No way around that in any craft.
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19:12 moritz raschipi: I know. But if I want to cook, I can go to the shop and buy a knife that Simply Works[tm]
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19:13 raschipi moritz: Nope, you need to know how to sharpen it if you'll do it professionally.
19:13 * perlpilot bides with bated breath to behold the bug
19:13 cowens Is there a better way to write the Perl 6 version of perl -pi -le 's/sftp/transfer/g' FILES than perl6 -e 'slurp($_).subst("sftp", "transfer", :g) ==> spurt($_) for @*ARGS' FILES?
19:14 moritz raschipi: in this case, my book toolchain is unsharpenable :(
19:14 raschipi I was a butcher at one point, had very goog knives and carried a sharpner everywhere. Knives do not 'just work'.
19:14 perlpilot moritz: that's a pity.  you tend to hurt yourself with dull tools
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19:15 ugexe a sharpner or a honing steal?
19:15 moritz perlpilot: I know, I know. But I also remember the sad old days of our "Using Perl 6" book attempt, where building the book was a mystery escape room experience
19:15 perlpilot cowens: you know perl6 also has -p and -n command line options.
19:15 andrei_ sorry to interrupt a very interesting discussion,      zef install Task::Star     does not work anymore ? says "No candidates found matching identity: Task::Star"
19:16 moritz andrei_: yes, Task::Star is goen
19:16 moritz *gone
19:16 cowens The problem is the -i which is missing
19:16 raschipi Well, I called it a 'chaira' but yes, I learned the name in English today.
19:16 cowens At least in the version I last looked at
19:17 perlpilot cowens: ah, indeed.  That would be a nice one to have again
19:18 |oLa| joined #perl6
19:18 cowens I stole that code from Rosetta Code, but I don't know enough to know if there is a better way
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19:22 moritz looks fine to me
19:25 andrei_ with Task::Star it was very easy to get started with Perl6, because it installed useful things. What should I do now?
19:25 |oLa| joined #perl6
19:25 moritz install the useful things when you need them
19:25 moritz or install Rakudo Star
19:26 moritz or install Task::Popular
19:26 moritz or Task::Galaxy
19:26 andrei_ How to install p6doc?
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19:28 moritz zef install p6doc
19:28 nicq20 Seems Like Task::Popular would be best. https://toast.perl6.party/
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19:36 andrei_ Ah, this is very nice. Thank you!
19:38 raschipi How many JSON decoders are in Task::Popular, again? I think it was 7 of them.
19:38 mcmillhj joined #perl6
19:39 andrei_ Sorry, small problem. After I   zef install p6doc    it seems that p6doc is not on PATH. To where is it installed?
19:41 nicq20 raschipi: Yep. Looks like about 7.
19:41 andrei_ It is not in  ~/.rakudobrew/bin/  ...
19:41 nicq20 andrei_: How did you install it?
19:41 andrei_ git clone https://github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew ~/.rakudobrew
19:41 andrei_ rakudobrew build moar
19:42 andrei_ rakudobrew build zef
19:42 andrei_ zef install Task::Star
19:42 andrei_ (but Task::Star did not install)
19:43 andrei_ so I did:    zef install p6doc
19:43 ugexe `rakudobrew rehash`
19:44 andrei_ Ah, YES! I knew, just forgot! Now it works, thank you!
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19:45 nicq20 Oops. Looks like Rakudo does not have a recursion limit.  ._.
19:46 raschipi nicq20: Of course it doesn't.
19:47 nicq20 Yeah, I wanted to check if it had the same limit/warning that Perl5 had. It doesn't.
19:48 raschipi The limit is the amount of memory available.
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19:55 ruoso moritz: second version of that gist, now using types instead of strings... https://gist.github.com/anonymous/80f6798530a3811335a065e2f9623779
19:55 ruoso I also removed the loop in favor of simple recursion
20:00 ruoso I also realized that the method could just be expressed as a subset... it doesn't need to be a separate argument
20:03 ufobat timotimo, https://gist.github.com/ufobat/902d8f7065b2bc8d59c2a64c225a6a70
20:03 ufobat perl6 bin/p6profiler-graphviz ../Bailador/03.sqlite3 doesnt seem to work
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20:20 timotimo dogbert17: oh yes i only changed the tui one to fit the new names
20:20 timotimo sorry, we're just preparing dinner now
20:21 timotimo you'll find the necessary changes in the git commit history for the project
20:21 timotimo maybe you could go ahead and apply the same thing to the graphviz one?
20:24 timotimo crap, a drop of tomato juice landed on th eedge of my trackpad and now it's misbehaving
20:24 timotimo better turn of the machine
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20:45 rheum101 how can I switch from audio to text output rakudo brew??
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21:07 cschwenz per https://docs.perl6.org/type/Num : «A Num object stores a floating-point number. It is immutable. On most platforms, it's an IEEE 754 64-bit floating point numbers, aka "double precision".»
21:07 cschwenz and now for my question, is it possible to detect from within perl6 what size floating-point number Num is using?  and if so, how?
21:14 ruoso https://github.com/ruoso/perl6-web-multi-dispatch <- organized the experiment a bit further... I'm actually fairly happy with how this looks
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21:50 Geth ¦ doc: 1bbf3a880f | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Language/unicode.pod6
21:50 Geth ¦ doc: Fix typo
21:50 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1bbf3a880f
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22:41 travis-ci Doc build errored. Jan-Olof Hendig 'Fix typo'
22:41 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/245131564 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/03b510a9abd3...1bbf3a880f5e
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23:34 ruoso for a candidate to a multi that was exported, I can find which package provided it, is it possible to tell which candidates can be resolved from the declaration site on the other package?
23:36 ruoso huh, it turns out that the obvious one of &m.candidates[0].candidates works
23:36 ruoso I was trying a bunch of other things, but didn't occur to me to ask that
23:39 timotimo i fixed my trackpad but somehow managed to get rid of 8 out of my 12 gigs of ram
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