Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-07-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 mcmillhj joined #perl6
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00:16 benjikun Does anyone know to run something when the user tries to quit (ctrl+c)
00:19 timotimo sure
00:19 benjikun How?
00:20 timotimo signal(SIGINT).tap({ say "oh no!"; exit })
00:20 benjikun alright
00:20 benjikun sounds good
00:20 benjikun thank you
00:20 timotimo YW
00:20 timotimo it's a Supply that emits a value every time that signal is received
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00:25 benjikun I appreciate the quick response, thanks!
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00:47 benjikun m: my @things = <1 2 3 4>; @things.splice(0, @things.elems, ());
00:47 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: ( no output )
00:47 benjikun m: my @things = <1 2 3 4>; @things.splice(0, @things.elems, ()); say @things.perl;
00:47 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «[]?»
00:49 benjikun What are some other ways for clearing arrays lol
00:49 benjikun setting it to nil?
00:50 pharv joined #perl6
00:56 benjikun also for some reason spurt isn't sending anything to the file
00:56 benjikun does the file have to exist beforehand?
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01:15 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, yes, thank you
01:15 yoleaux 28 Jul 2017 19:14Z <zengargoyle> jeromelanteri: the Git::Wrapper thing has been solved!  i made pull-request on Git::Wrapper with the fix.
01:15 yoleaux 28 Jul 2017 21:07Z <zengargoyle> jeromelanteri: was it you who wanted TagBar config for perl6?  https://gist.github.com/77f253d6d721e4b6287b8e5321b31e9f
01:15 jeromelanteri yoleaux, thank you to
01:17 HoboWithShotgun "No such method 'elements' for invocant of type 'Any'", is that perl6s way to tell me something is undefined?
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01:19 jeromelanteri yoleaux, really ?!! how you do that ? what was the problem ?
01:21 jeromelanteri problem was from Git::Wrapper module or from my code ? and what exactly happened ?
01:22 jeromelanteri yoleaux, i can not see any pull-request there: https://github.com/perlpilot/p6-Git-Wrapper/pulls
01:22 TEttinger jeromelanteri: yoleaux is a bot that was referring a message to you from zengargoyle
01:22 jeromelanteri TEttinger, OMG !
01:23 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, i can not see any pull request for Git::Wrapper, but anyway, what was the problem ?
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01:26 zengargoyle jeromelanteri: the pull-request is on the niqcrocks repo that's used by the ecosystem/zef.
01:26 geekosaur HoboWithShotgun, that is one way, yes
01:28 zengargoyle jeromelanteri: https://github.com/nicqrocks/p6-Git-Wrapper/pull/2
01:28 zengargoyle jeromelanteri: basically one statement needed a 'BEGIN' in front of it. :)
01:34 HoboWithShotgun uh, nice. exception handling? just add a catch to a block. any block. how very perlish :)
01:37 HoboWithShotgun do you guys have a favourited paste service?
01:40 zengargoyle i use github gists because they're git repositories and you can edit them that way if you like.
01:40 geekosaur not really. pastebin.com is kinda not liked much though
01:40 zengargoyle and the Perl 5 application App::Nopaste provides a nice CLI command to create one.
01:41 zengargoyle but App::Nopaste supports various different paste sites.
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01:50 jeromelanteri gist github
01:50 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, very good ! thank you
01:50 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, from now, how to profit and update this Git::Wrapper ?
01:50 zengargoyle jeromelanteri: jnthn gave a lot of good hints and the final 'this should work' fix. :)
01:50 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, but i mean... from zef, how to tell him to choose perpilot repo or nicqrock one ?
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01:52 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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01:54 zengargoyle this repo is the one found by zef and listed in that META.list file.... so it's pretty much the official one now.
01:55 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, when i do zef install Git::Wrapper, it does install perlpilot one.
01:56 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, anyway... i do find ~/.perl6/ -name "Wrapper*"
01:57 jeromelanteri there is no Wrapper.pm6 file find . Where should be source files installed from zef ?
01:58 Kyo91 joined #perl6
01:58 jeromelanteri nothing in /usr and nothing in /opt
01:58 jeromelanteri i think id do compile things only, doesn't copy sources... correct ?
02:01 jeromelanteri la
02:02 zengargoyle i just pushed a fixed version to my github but can't make zef actually load it via URL.
02:02 zengargoyle you can clone http://github.com/zengargoyle/p6-Git-Wrapper.git
02:03 zengargoyle cd into p6-Git-Wrapper and do `zef install .`
02:03 zengargoyle or just clone the nicqrocks version, add the BEGIN to lib/Git/Wrapper.pm and `zef install .` that way.
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02:05 zengargoyle i'm not sure why when i try `zef install http://github.com/zengargoyle/p6-Git-Wrapper.git` it still installs the old version.
02:08 zengargoyle ah, zef cache.... had to `rm -rf ~/.zef/{tmp,store}/p6-Git-Wrapper.git` before it would actually use my URL.
02:10 zengargoyle if you install and it says :ver('0.0.8') then you have the fixed one.  :ver('0.0.7') is the broken version.
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02:17 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, ho well.. i had the same idea you had first... i just came back from fit clone and vim the Wrapper.pm file from perlpilot.
02:19 zengargoyle jeromelanteri: i doubt perlpilot's version will every get updated...  i *think* nicqrocks is the new maintainer.
02:20 zengargoyle .ask perlpilot are you still maintaining Git::Wrapper?
02:20 jeromelanteri ok then i do remove perlpilot and clone nicqrocks
02:20 yoleaux zengargoyle: I'll pass your message to perlpilot.
02:21 zengargoyle when i looked, nicqrocks repo had more recent changes.  like a couple months/weeks ago.  perlpilots was like 7 months old.
02:22 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, yeah... but what i need is not the last shiny porsche also... but a strong module who works (i mean... all the time).
02:23 zengargoyle oh, and that .ask is how you get yoleaux to leave a message for somebody.  (or .tell does about the same thing)
02:23 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, alos, it looks like there is no pass tests required for post modules for perl6.
02:24 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, yes, i see. very good to pass message to a robot.
02:25 zengargoyle http://dpk.io/yoleaux -- more docs for the bot.
02:26 jeromelanteri let's try it...
02:27 jeromelanteri .gc perl6 Git::Wrapper
02:27 yoleaux jeromelanteri: Sorry, that command (.gc) crashed.
02:27 jeromelanteri (crying)
02:27 deep-book-gk_ joined #perl6
02:28 jeromelanteri .tr :fr :en mon tailleur est riche
02:28 yoleaux jeromelanteri: Sorry, that command (.tr) crashed.
02:28 jeromelanteri (crying again)
02:28 zengargoyle mostly it's .ask .tell and .u that i've seen people actually use.
02:28 deep-book-gk_ left #perl6
02:28 jeromelanteri ok
02:28 zengargoyle .botsnack
02:28 synopsebot6 om nom nom
02:28 yoleaux :D
02:28 zengargoyle fand that one.
02:29 jeromelanteri what a wondefull world !
02:29 jeromelanteri wonderfull
02:29 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, well.. thank you for your fix, it works very well.
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02:32 zengargoyle if you're really bored, clone my VimPlugger.git repo... :)  i sorta made your thing into more like a regular set of modules while trying to figure out Git::Wrapper thing.
02:35 zengargoyle mostly just moving files and making Module::Name longer and tests to check if modules compile or not.  made it a little easer to try things out and see if tests still passed or not.
02:35 Kyo91 joined #perl6
02:36 zengargoyle but in the end... it was just Git::Wrapper that was broken so it didn't really matter... :P
02:43 jeromelanteri i done you fix allready and works. that's ok like that.
02:43 zengargoyle cool.
02:44 jeromelanteri yes, i have to merge then and go ahead. my master branch is in front of my Git::Wrapper one. I have to add a comment on my README file. May i talk about your help inside ? you will not become very popular because i am not to... but i have to ask you before to do that.
02:55 jaldhar Hello.  Could someone try installing Algorithm::DawkinsWeasel with zef?  I'm getting a strange error and I want to know if it is just me.
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03:05 ugexe i sent you a PR already jaldhar
03:06 ugexe well, i thought i did
03:07 ugexe your source-url is wrong - https://github.com/jaldhar/Algorithm-DawkinsWeasel needs a .git at the end
03:07 ugexe otherwise zef doesn't know to fetch it with git instead of wget
03:10 jaldhar ugexe: oh didn't see that.  Thanks.
03:11 ugexe zengargoyle: found why that did not seem to update... I had a git fetch where i needed a git pull
03:11 jaldhar ugexe: There's no PR but I presume all I need to do is update META6.json in my repository right?
03:12 ugexe jaldhar: yep thats right
03:13 jaldhar ok doing that...
03:13 ugexe it might take some time to show up in the ecosystem, but i verified that `zef install https://github.com/jaldhar/Algorithm-DawkinsWeasel.git` works
03:14 jaldhar ugexe: one thing though, the error message was rather misleading.  I thought zef couldn't find unzip or something.
03:17 zengargoyle ugexe: cool, thanks.
03:19 zengargoyle jeromelanteri: you can mention if you want, no problem... or just mention the fine folks on #perl6 :)
03:19 ugexe jaldhar: because zef cant just guess
03:19 ugexe what that url downloaded might be valid to some other plugin
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03:33 Todd_ Hi.  I am trying to turn "123.456.789" into "123456".  My match is `$NewRev =~ m/\.(.*?)\.(.*?)\.(*.)/;` which string an unknown "." verb error.  What am I doing wrong?
03:33 grondilu m: say grammar { rule TOP { <digit> | <TOP> <digit> }.parse: "01234";
03:33 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>?Missing block?at <tmp>:1?------> 3digit> | <TOP> <digit> }.parse: "01234";7?5<EOL>?»
03:33 grondilu m: say grammar { rule TOP { <digit> | <TOP> <digit> } }.parse: "01234";
03:33 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «(timeout)»
03:34 grondilu *
03:34 Todd_ I don't understand
03:34 ugexe =~ is perl5
03:34 Todd_ oh poop.  Wrong group.  Sorry
03:35 * geekosaur just spotted the actual error
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03:45 HoboWithShotgun allright, i am shelling out to curl and have a strange bug
03:46 HoboWithShotgun i think there might be a bug in the shell command
03:46 HoboWithShotgun see https://gist.github.com/holli-holzer/1a04256e9c536081f5c096df2a87184d
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03:51 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, done ! thank you dude
03:52 * geekosaur wonders which "system shell" is being used there
03:53 * HoboWithShtgnAFK wonders if the D:> isn't clue enough?
03:53 geekosaur that is the thing yiouy are typing to, which may not be what perl 6 is using
03:54 geekosaur unix has $SHELL, windows does not have such convention
03:54 HoboWithShtgnAFK well i have cygwin installed
03:56 geekosaur it looks windows specific since it works here
03:56 geekosaur windows command line parsing is ... an adventure. :/
03:57 HoboWithShtgnAFK i changed it to single quotes. the error message then indicates perl6 is indeed using the native shell
03:59 geekosaur ...the thing about windows is that quote handling is deferred to the application normally (i.e. with cmd, or powershell). if the curl you are using is from cygwin or msys2 then it may be assuming a shell is doing some of the quote processing
04:00 geekosaur er, a unix-like shell
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04:00 geekosaur and some executables for windows try to be "clever" and figure out which to do... which is unreliable at best.
04:02 geekosaur (that can lead to some real head-scratching errors, especially if you use the other kind of cmd.exe quote (^ which is sort-of like Unix's \ escape but not quite the same)
04:02 HoboWithShtgnAFK apparantly "shell" escaped the double quotes
04:02 geekosaur that might be worth reporting as a rakudobug
04:03 geekosaur buggable, rakudobug
04:03 geekosaur bleh
04:03 geekosaur huggable, rakudobug
04:03 huggable geekosaur, Report bugs by emailing to <rakudobug@perl.org>
04:03 geekosaur thought it had more detail than that..
04:03 HoboWithShtgnAFK when i say shell qq[echo "foo"];
04:03 HoboWithShtgnAFK the output is \"foo"
04:03 HoboWithShtgnAFK that is definitly not correct
04:04 HoboWithShtgnAFK whatever behaviour it should either be foo or "foo"
04:05 HoboWithShtgnAFK or \"foo\"
04:06 HoboWithShtgnAFK unless my 4am mind is completely off
04:08 geekosaur your analysis sounds correct to me. definitely file a rakudobug.
04:08 geekosaur (unless your rakudo is several months old; try "perl6 -v"(
04:09 HoboWithShtgnAFK 2017.07
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04:09 geekosaur yes, file rakudobug.
04:09 HoboWithShtgnAFK allright, will do
04:09 HoboWithShtgnAFK tx for your input
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04:36 pharv is anyone here a core contributor to the web app framework Bailador?
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04:43 PerlJam pharv: why?
04:46 pharv well, i'm looking for a project to contribute to, but i've heard some people express some concerns about some of the design decisions, so i was just gonna ask about the strategy
04:48 pharv it doesn't have to be a framework, it's just the type of development i'm most familiar with, so i figured i could help out with something like that... i just want to work on something that's well-designed and has some momentum
04:48 PerlJam pharv: the right people to ask about Bailador design are probably ufobat and szabgab.  I've contributed some code as I was thinking of using it, but I haven't looked at the design in detail yet.
04:49 pharv i've also heard about PW6, but it looks like it's still in design phase
04:50 pharv ok... i haven't used it yet, but it looks like Web::App::MVC got abandoned a few months ago... and PW6 is still in design phase
04:51 pharv if Bailador is the only game in town, i'll help out, i just wanted to explore a few options first
04:52 PerlJam pharv: also, for Bailador stuff, it's probably best to get on the slack team for it and chat there.
04:52 PerlJam pharv: I don't think it's the only game, but it does have some momentum.
04:52 PerlJam and szabgab *is* writing a book about it supposedly, so there's some incentive there for him to keep working on it  :)
04:53 pharv ahh
04:53 pharv you said you considered using it... what did you end up using instead?
04:54 PerlJam I haven't used anything instead.  I'm trying to find a way to use Perl6 at work and a small, stand alone web app might just do the trick.
04:54 pharv ahh, cool... what languages do you currently use at work?
04:55 PerlJam Mostly Perl 5 and JS
04:55 pharv do you use Moose?
04:55 PerlJam well ... the Ext flavor of JS anyway
04:55 PerlJam yes, we use Moose/Moo
04:55 pharv hah, that's funny... perl5/extjs was my first job at verizon wireless :)
04:57 PerlJam We've also been using Moops, but we keep running into problems with weird stuff happening that's hard to debug, so whenever that happens the standard response is to use Moo + Function::Paramters + Type::Tiny    (you can guess why I want Perl 6 instead :)
04:57 pharv lol, yeah
04:57 pharv although when i did perl/extjs, i spent about 90% of my time debugging extjs
04:58 pharv hopefully it's made some progress in the last 5 years
04:59 PerlJam luckily we've got some really talented front-end guys who take care keeping us up-to-date wrt extjs and they handle any debugging  (they've found probably 3 or 4 extjs bugs in the last year and if extjs hasn't fixed them, they've devised work-arounds)
04:59 pharv oh, that's awesome
05:00 pharv yeah, extjs scared me away from front-end development, but i've actually started to enjoy it recently with angular2
05:00 PerlJam what's funny for me is that I first used extjs back in 2007ish and it's definitely come a long way since then  ;)
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05:01 pharv wow, i can't even imagine what it was like back then
05:03 pharv it probably wasn't that bad, it was just a little overwhelming for me as my first job, and the version we were using wasn't very well documented at the time... i think it was 4.5 or so
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05:17 zengargoyle .botsnack
05:17 synopsebot6 om nom nom
05:17 yoleaux :D
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08:01 jeromelanteri i get an array, how to show the last entry of the array ?
08:02 jeromelanteri my @array = <a b c d e f>; say @array.last;
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08:03 jeromelanteri @array[-1] (not works to)
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08:04 jeromelanteri @array.pop works, but remove the last one...
08:04 Skarsnik .tail(1)
08:05 Skarsnik m: my @a = 1..5; say @a.tail(1);
08:05 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «(5)?»
08:06 jeromelanteri Skarsnik, thank you
08:07 parv m: my @x = (1,3); say @x.tail(0)
08:07 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «()?»
08:07 parv m: my @x = (1,3); say @x.tail(2)
08:07 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «(1 3)?»
08:07 parv m: my @x = (1,3); say @x.tail(1)
08:07 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «(3)?»
08:07 parv m: my @x = (1,3,4,5); say @x.tail(2)
08:07 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «(4 5)?»
08:07 parv m: my @x = (1,3,4,5); say @x.tail(3)
08:07 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «(3 4 5)?»
08:08 Skarsnik m: my @a = 1..5; say @a.tail;
08:08 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «5?»
08:08 jeromelanteri perfect
08:09 parv .tail is not really a substitute for -ve indexing as cannot get only the last i-th element
08:09 zengargoyle m: my @f = < 1 2 3 4 >; say @f[*];
08:09 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «(1 2 3 4)?»
08:09 zengargoyle m: my @f = < 1 2 3 4 >; say @f[*-1];
08:09 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «4?»
08:10 zengargoyle m: my @f = < 1 2 3 4 >; say @f[2..*];
08:10 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «(3 4)?»
08:10 zengargoyle m: my @f = < 1 2 3 4 >; say @f[2..*-1];
08:10 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «(3 4)?»
08:10 jeromelanteri well... which one make working proc the less ?
08:10 jeromelanteri indexing i think ?
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08:11 zengargoyle not sure.  indexing was first.  .tail is more recent and probably just indexing underneath.
08:12 jeromelanteri so maybe the same
08:12 jeromelanteri ok one or the other should make the job i need thank you
08:12 zengargoyle yeah, with compile wizardry.
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08:14 jeromelanteri there is something more i not understand with my code... i do ask an entry from prompt (Prompt:Gruff::Export), and put it in a variable. Well..; that works, but when i ask to change it, it said that it can not assign to an immutable value.
08:15 jeromelanteri why immutable value ?
08:15 zengargoyle ouch, complicated. :)  Array and List and Seq are all almost same thing... method tail (Array:D: $n) {} is complicated...
08:16 jeromelanteri this variable is passed in argument to other sub functions... from there a problem happen. is it because this variable can not be change if pass by argument to an ther function ? do it need to be a referenced variable instead ?
08:16 parv jeromelanteri, probably using binding instead of assignment  $x := 4 instead of $x = 4
08:16 jeromelanteri parv, i'm going to try
08:17 zengargoyle sub whatever (Str $value is copy) { }   or $value is rw  -- arguments to functions are read-only by default.
08:18 zengargoyle is copy makes it so you can write to it.  is rw makes it like reference where you change the thing in the calling place.
08:18 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, may i use ref instead of copy ? like \$value ?
08:18 jeromelanteri is rw then...
08:18 zengargoyle don't thing so.
08:19 zengargoyle maybe you can use \value (no $) not sure.  usually is copy or is rw.
08:20 jeromelanteri := instead works... let's try to define as "is rw"...
08:21 jeromelanteri works to !
08:22 jeromelanteri ok, i think define well as "is rw" seems to be more readable code for me.
08:22 zengargoyle jeromelanteri: did you do perl 5 before?
08:23 jeromelanteri long time ago one year, then nothing perl for 10 years, and a little bit two weeks ago... prefer perl6 from far now.
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08:25 zengargoyle cool, i did perl5 for many years and can sometimes explain in perl5 but that probably will not help much.
08:26 jeromelanteri i was very happy with perl5, but see python and ruby (ruby very funny). then use C++ and very happy by powerfull and precision of C++. Now perl6 looks like a real powerfull OO language.
08:27 parv jeromelanteri, tried julia?
08:27 jeromelanteri use it for fun and want to make own script
08:27 jeromelanteri never try julia
08:28 jeromelanteri want to have a look with haskell and framework yesod soon... python with django (a little bit tired with Rails). See some Go code looks funny to. But never heard about julia.
08:28 zengargoyle i waited patiently a long time for perl6 and still here... it is cool.
08:29 jeromelanteri yes, it can be very nice code reading, very clear i think. But need a learning curve first like all langages (much more when need to be precise).
08:30 jeromelanteri i look at some module source codes... some of them looks like people coding C lanugage before... not to much use the power of OO.
08:31 parv julia, haskell, clojure in context of fortran: https://arstechnica.com/science/2014/05/scientific-computings-future-can-any-coding-language-top-a-1950s-behemoth/  -- short introduction on page 2
08:31 jeromelanteri i see also that ther eis an OS construct from haskell...
08:31 jeromelanteri nixOS
08:31 jeromelanteri strange langages also should be prolog (old)
08:32 zengargoyle rosetta code might be a good place to look.  same problems in many languages.  usually perl6 version is by somebody good.
08:33 jeromelanteri what seems to be very well is the way you can do with perl6 by different options coding.
08:33 R0b0t1 I looked at Perl 6 maybe two years ago
08:33 R0b0t1 The last two years have made it far more usable
08:33 R0b0t1 You might want to look at Scala
08:33 R0b0t1 sorry to interject
08:33 jeromelanteri nop
08:34 R0b0t1 Elixir also has a nice web framework
08:34 zengargoyle TIMTOWTDI -- There Is More Than One Way To Do It.  almost the meaning of perl 5/6
08:34 jeromelanteri scala, julia cclojure... well... lot of information to find. Ok, then i will.
08:35 R0b0t1 Erlang, the language Elixir is based on, has some very novel features that found their way into Perl 6. Mainly to do with scheduling I think
08:36 jeromelanteri actually, i use Rails for web framework... i'm not to much happy by Rails. ery slow, eat lot of ressources... i thinking about yesod/haskell because of compiling code ability (then more quick).
08:36 R0b0t1 jeromelanteri, I actually just had a conversation about this elsewhere
08:36 * zengargoyle thinks perl6 became reasonable with moar replacing parrot.  became fast enough to play with.
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08:36 R0b0t1 I think it is very good you are already looking at Haskell
08:36 jeromelanteri What is Erlang need for running ? does it need a kind of engine in background ?
08:36 R0b0t1 Knowing what type theory is and how it works makes one capable of reasoning about whether a language is good or not
08:36 zengargoyle heh, erlang....
08:37 R0b0t1 Yeah, Erlang runs on BEAM which is a VM implemented by Ericsson
08:37 jeromelanteri R0b0t1, yes, i looking at this... but my levele is very poor... need more time. I'm actually very happy with C++, but i'm searching an other one langage to stay with.
08:37 R0b0t1 It has a very lightweird process type
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08:37 R0b0t1 lightweight*
08:37 jeromelanteri R0b0t1, i thinking that the best is by far to be compiled.
08:38 zengargoyle erlang was created by telephone people to run telephone switches.  mostly rock-solid and failure proof.  prolog heritage.
08:38 jeromelanteri ho well...
08:38 jeromelanteri what about julia ?
08:39 R0b0t1 Meh
08:39 zengargoyle it's good for what it does.  i've had erlang jabber (xMPP) servers that run for *years* without anything bad happening.
08:39 R0b0t1 The webpage of any of these languages would have you believe they nearly cure cancer
08:39 R0b0t1 That is why I think it is important to have a wide breadth of field and know about functional languages, logical languages, etc
08:40 R0b0t1 So you can tell if anything is actually good
08:40 jeromelanteri what is this expression: "cure cancer" mean ? (i'm not english)
08:40 R0b0t1 Perl 6 lets you experiment with almost anything
08:40 zengargoyle and if you're careful, you can hot-swap code while server is running.  and it is built around multiple nodes so is distributed from the start.
08:41 jeromelanteri I want to stay use perl6 for playing and kind of little script jobs on computers... nt more.
08:41 R0b0t1 jeromelanteri: A very hard to cure classification of diseases that are usually fatal. I mean that the webpages talk up their respective language a bit much
08:41 zengargoyle cancer is disease that kills.  the cure is always 10 years in the future.
08:41 R0b0t1 zengargoyle: That is the part I have never actually seen duplicated - the hotswapping
08:42 zengargoyle cure for cancer is like cure for common cold or fusion reactors.
08:42 R0b0t1 Or a language that actually does what I need it to do
08:43 jeromelanteri actually i paid for a little server on Vultr... then i would like to make things going quicker with no more VM need languages (like Rails or some other). Yesod should be the one, but maybe you know some other ?
08:44 zengargoyle R0b0t1: i want slangs and every language at once.  this sub does postscript because it returns an image, this sub is in forth because it has a nice stack solution, this sub is in APL because it's math-magic...
08:44 jeromelanteri also, each time you want to update rails is a big big story...
08:45 parv perl6 needs VM in form of moar-vm (or a different one)
08:47 jeromelanteri i see
08:48 jeromelanteri i will not use this for a kind of web site because of that.
08:48 * zengargoyle thinks forth is the ultimate no-vm.  it's basically dynamic super macro assembler.
08:48 jeromelanteri forth... added to my searching to do list
08:50 zengargoyle jeromelanteri: nah, it's old and mostly used for embedded things.  it was just one of my first languages *long* time ago.
08:51 parv zengargoyle, what you (or anybody else) have to say about lua? (i looked at some beginner level code once or twice)
08:52 zengargoyle i don't like lua's "array indexes start at 1 not 0" thing. :)
08:52 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, well... you should like to look at micro-controller books. hobby like PIC micro-controllers... but very powerfull
08:52 Skarsnik it's only good to embed in other stuff
08:52 jeromelanteri i see lua can works fine, but difficult to read.
08:53 jeromelanteri have to learn and use this a little for conky application
08:53 jeromelanteri i think blender use it also ?
08:53 zengargoyle yeah, lua never made me happy....  sorta like javascript.  the idea is good, the reality is a bit yuck.
08:54 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, you will not like nodes.js then... :)
08:55 zengargoyle it is like different javascript.  simple idea of object and slots and simplicity that sounds good like lisp but does not quite hit the right balance for me.
08:56 zengargoyle jeromelanteri: yeah, i don't like javascript or node.js, pretty much avoid them as much as possible.
08:56 jeromelanteri nothing can be bad more than VBA and OpenOffice Basic language
08:57 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, i use coffeescript up to javascript code (more easy to read/write.. and then... ho no... not to debug... same)
08:57 zengargoyle well.... AMIGA Basic or TRS-80 Basic are arguably worse than VB :)
08:58 jeromelanteri i start learn my first langage with Basic on Commodor 64 ! then C.
08:58 zengargoyle or hell, Apple integer BASIC for that matter.  no floating point!!!!
08:59 jeromelanteri but you know... you can run long time, if you have little legs... you will never run quick. Same for the brain as i see. Never mind, i have not a big brain, then i will learn humility.
08:59 parv speaking of Apple, how is people's experience with Swift?
09:00 zengargoyle we could go back to HP calculators but....
09:00 jeromelanteri HP langage was very funny. You like asm, you like HP
09:01 parv zengargoyle, hey I wrote TI-82 program for complex numbers & polar coords. HP was too expensive for me then.
09:01 zengargoyle haven't tried swift, but the talk i watched was intersting enough.
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09:01 jeromelanteri does Swift a kind of GUI ?
09:01 GhostK hi ( tese msg
09:01 GhostK *test
09:02 GhostK oops not social ch. sry
09:02 zengargoyle parv: i played with my dads calculator....  there was acutally a lunar-lander game you could type in and try to land on the moon.
09:03 jeromelanteri It was the first NASA propaganda maybe ?
09:03 parv zengargoyle, which HP calculator was it, do you remember?
09:03 jeromelanteri SX48
09:04 zengargoyle it was in the 70's.  plastic, wedge like, LED display and slide switch for power....  and had a holster.
09:04 jeromelanteri then older than SX48
09:05 zengargoyle around the same time was the TI that had the magnetic strips for programs....
09:05 eater zengargoyle: are you sure about LEDs?
09:05 zengargoyle eater: well i mean the red segmented display that all caculators had at the time.
09:06 jeromelanteri 7 segment LED or LCD 16 segment / chars
09:06 parv zengargoyle, ok that before TI-{79 .. 83} era. I was thinking of graphical calculators c.1995
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09:06 eater yeah, leds were invented physically in '62
09:07 eater https://web.archive.org/web/20070809062214/http://www.technology.gov/Medal/2002/bios/Holonyak_Craford_Dupuis.pdf
09:07 eater hehe
09:08 jeromelanteri in the 80's, mac was very strong, very different, big/good quality (but can not have one at home... to exepensive). proc was Motorola.
09:11 stmuk the first program I typed in (70s) into a (6502 based) KIM-1 was "Lunar Lander" I remembered it displayed SAFE on its LEDs
09:11 zengargoyle i have a piece of cable that (oral history) is from a Univac, it's about 1 inch diameter and has many bundles shielded wires inside.  about 2 feet long.  my grandfather kept it in his truck to hit people with. :P
09:12 stmuk my dad borrowed the KIM-1 from work
09:12 zengargoyle they hired women to solder the cables to PC boards (-ish) because they had good eyesight from sewing....
09:13 eater yea
09:13 eater the first programmers where females
09:14 eater how did it shift so badly tho
09:14 zengargoyle i'd love to actually identify the cable some day....  i think it's probably some telephone trunk cable.  but it is really old...
09:18 jeromelanteri telephones cables are mono-brin and they are rotated in the cable.
09:19 zengargoyle eater: do you want to know?  i ask this of all my victims. :P
09:19 jeromelanteri they are twisted for the background sound level to be down.
09:19 zengargoyle jeromelanteri: don't know what that means... they look like stranded core, insulator, stranded sheild, outer insulator, and there are dozens or more of them in a rubber/plastic outer shell that's about 2mm thick.
09:19 jeromelanteri we actually use some old and new technology mixed for the deep water ROV materials. Due to the problem of data transmissions and energy fr
09:19 jeromelanteri for make running hrdolic pump, make going camera view, and send commands.
09:19 jeromelanteri zengargoyle, they use different normal tecnologies depend of the utility of the cables.. that can be different for analogic sound or for data (depend of frequencies also) and for energy.
09:21 zengargoyle it's heavy but flexible and if you smacked somebody with it it would hurt bad.
09:21 jeromelanteri energy can be very specific due to how many current need to go inside...
09:21 zengargoyle why not fiber?
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09:21 jeromelanteri fiber can not share electric energy. We use fiber for camera (3 cables with 6 pairs each... need to have spare ready to run without delay
09:21 zengargoyle ah, of course.
09:21 jeromelanteri fibers are also very fragil
09:22 jeromelanteri and repair need between one and two hours to go
09:22 jeromelanteri i'm talkign about big ROV (3T5 weight)
09:23 zengargoyle the ROV and deep sea stuff i have seen is all about high data transfer and research networking.
09:23 jeromelanteri who go about 2500 meter deep
09:23 zengargoyle well maybe not *deep* sea.
09:23 eater zengargoyle: are you the reason?
09:24 jeromelanteri i do work for inspection in african area sub sea. Inpections of pipes and TLP for oil and gaz industry
09:24 TEttinger TLP?
09:24 jeromelanteri Is a kind of plateform
09:24 zengargoyle sweet.  i worked for .edu in research networking.
09:25 jeromelanteri hey... do you guys used allready coding with Gst lib ?
09:26 jeromelanteri i'm trying to do something with that... but very difficult for me.
09:27 jeromelanteri https://bitbucket.org/jerome___/gst_video_testeur
09:27 zengargoyle eater: math wise, women are better at calculation then men statistically wise.
09:27 jeromelanteri i have to go again on this project.
09:29 zengargoyle eater: it's a big-ish discussion in the reasons for lack of diversity in STEM fields.
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09:36 Skarsnik jeromelanteri, I worked a bit with gstreamer yes
09:37 eater zengargoyle: I dont follow, because women are better at math, they don't do STEM? or do you not mean that
09:38 TEttinger it's mostly an unwelcoming culture, especially in american startup culture (see: ubeer)
09:38 TEttinger uber
09:38 zengargoyle eater: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bTKRkmwtGY
09:39 TEttinger it should be resolvable, but like other resolvable problems (cough global warming cough) isn't being addressed well.
09:39 jeromelanteri Skarsnik, i'm trying to make dynamics overlay data on video streams... show them together in live, and same time capture video (overlay should be captured inside a file... like it's current to do for overlay sub-title), then later recording result of overlay and video...
09:39 jeromelanteri but actually, i failed to find any examples for use Gst with GUI Qt5
09:40 Skarsnik did you try QtGstreamer ?
09:40 Skarsnik it's a bitch to compile it on windows thou
09:40 jeromelanteri i'm just able to capture video and show OR recording... not in the same time.
09:40 jeromelanteri Skarsnik, yes, that is my bitbucket repo a little code for test it
09:41 jeromelanteri https://bitbucket.org/jerome___/gst_video_testeur
09:41 zengargoyle eater: it's long... but decent. it's just different areas... CS is not so much NASA sending moon shots and getting the numbers right than being crazy tech dude drilling tunnels.
09:41 jeromelanteri (10 month old.. need to go ahead)
09:41 * zengargoyle and that's about the end of that digression.
09:42 Skarsnik hm, sems like a complicated pipeline
09:43 Skarsnik I only used to play video with my own gstreamer plugin in the mix
09:43 jeromelanteri Skarsnik, for me, i understadn a bit the pipeline Gst prncipe, but it still compicate to make in place. Also, the doc is C oriented, then Gst/Qt use some other way to do for little things i think.
09:44 jeromelanteri play video ok... but for construct pipeline to make pplaying, then make recording, then push overlay.. all in the same time... OMG !!! it make me crazy
09:45 jeromelanteri Qt5 doesn't have something for make this easy to...
09:45 jeromelanteri and i didn't want to use QML code.
09:46 jeromelanteri there is also events happen...
09:46 Skarsnik QtGstreamer make just writing the gst code in C++/Qt more c++ friendly (and also better qt integration for widget)
09:46 jeromelanteri yes
09:47 Skarsnik https://github.com/Toyunda/toyunda/blob/master/QToyTime/videowidget.cpp maybe that can help yu
09:47 Skarsnik it's beem a while I worked with this stuff
09:49 jeromelanteri Skarsnik, yes, that should yes... very good and nice code
09:50 jeromelanteri Skarsnik, , thank you
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10:19 Skarsnik moritz, is there a way to have svg-plot to put the value on the graph?
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11:37 nadim good day, can someone please remind me what was the shortcut for calling a method only if it exists?
11:37 yoleaux 05:32Z <llfourn> nadim: Thanks for suffering to figure out that problem. Did you manage to make an RT? It still sounds like a bug.
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11:41 Skarsnik ^can ?
11:45 nadim .tell llfourn Hi, I did not managed to make a RT since I could not golf it down, on the other hand I found what the problem was. Maybe this will help https://nopaste.linux-dev.org/?1160132
11:45 yoleaux nadim: I'll pass your message to llfourn.
11:45 nadim Skarsnik: I mean calling a method only if it is possible, not finding out if it is possible
11:45 Skarsnik I think can make a call
11:46 nadim ah!
11:46 nadim ah right caret + can
11:46 Skarsnik m: say (0..3).^can("elems);
11:46 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>?Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' ?at <tmp>:1?------> 3say (0..3).^can("elems);7?5<EOL>?    expecting any of:?        argument list?        double quotes…»
11:46 Skarsnik m: say (0..3).^can("elems");
11:46 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «(elems Method+{<anon|44581280>}.new)?»
11:47 Skarsnik nvm it's not this one
11:48 nadim could have been :)
11:52 Skarsnik m: say (0..3).+^can("elems");
11:52 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>?Malformed postfix call?at <tmp>:1?------> 3say (0..3).+7?5^can("elems");?»
11:54 timotimo there's .* but that'll call multiple candidates if there are more than one
11:55 timotimo actually
11:55 timotimo .? does what you want
11:56 Skarsnik m: say (0..3).?("elems");
11:56 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>?Cannot use .? on a non-identifier method call?at <tmp>:1?------> 3say (0..3).?("elems")7?5;?»
11:56 Skarsnik m: say (0..3).?elems;
11:56 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «4?»
11:56 Skarsnik m: say (0..3).?foo;
11:56 camelia rakudo-moar f083cf: OUTPUT: «Nil?»
11:58 nadim that's the one!
12:02 Skarsnik hu
12:02 Skarsnik that an interesting bug/weird stuff
12:02 timotimo you mean that you can't .?()?
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12:03 Skarsnik No, I made a script that made profile for a script with multiple rakudo release, but it failed at some point
12:04 Skarsnik I mean the code is basicly for @rakudo-release {run a p6 script with --profile arguments}
12:04 timotimo mh
12:05 Skarsnik and for some reason the script fail with undef value toward the end of the releases
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12:05 Skarsnik and I already run the called script 100 times for each release to make benchmarks
12:06 timotimo that sounds interesting indeed
12:06 Skarsnik my bet is some memory issue since the script call a native lib
12:07 timotimo what are you calling a native lib for here?
12:07 Skarsnik the called script use a native lib
12:07 timotimo i thought the calling script had the undef errors?
12:07 Skarsnik Yes, the called script end with undef errors for later release
12:08 timotimo oh, ok
12:08 timotimo if you call a perl6 script 100 times you'll spend about 10s only doing startup
12:09 Skarsnik The called script output times that I track internaly, I don't use the running time of the script
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12:10 Skarsnik hm
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12:11 Skarsnik https://gist.github.com/Skarsnik/179f3d91f1df24f1af1a132d749580e6
12:11 Skarsnik ok this is weird, adding --profile make it goes boom
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12:14 Kristjan55555 https://twitter.com/kristjan1125125 http://imgur.com/a/GZeEy
12:15 timotimo oh
12:15 timotimo that
12:15 timotimo yeah, that's a code-gen issue that the profiler can cause somehow
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12:19 timotimo yeah, i recommend you not click on that imgur link
12:19 Skarsnik I made the mistake ~~
12:20 timotimo moritz: wanna purge that line of spam from the irclogs?
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12:39 rightfold Ugh
12:39 rightfold Someone told me not to click it and naturally I clicked it
12:41 Skarsnik timotimo, dunno if that usefull https://gist.github.com/Skarsnik/1c356d1d3b115ce08a4368778b6999b4
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12:42 timotimo rightfold: sometimes i hate the internet
12:43 timotimo gotta go!
12:43 rightfold Reminds me of Portal 2 with all the DO NOT ENTER signs ????
12:46 timotimo except there you get something nice
12:46 colomon joined #perl6
12:47 rightfold Yeah I heard you get a cake
12:47 timotimo you get that for following all the orders
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12:56 Geth ¦ ecosystem: 272d253b86 | (Tom Browder)++ | META.list
12:56 Geth ¦ ecosystem: add new module
12:56 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/272d253b86
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13:25 Skarsnik lizmat, I included profiles for each rakudo version https://gist.github.com/Skarsnik/1c356d1d3b115ce08a4368778b6999b4 not sure if that helpful
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13:39 AlexDaniel Skarsnik: I made the mistake too :|
13:40 AlexDaniel next time I'll backlog in the other direction, like I usually do…
13:45 El_Che moritz: if I read your book through safari once it arrives there, do you know how royalties work? Do you get paid?
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14:45 moritz El_Che: if the publisher gets paid, so do I. But I don't know the specifics for safari
14:45 moritz El_Che: but I'd appreciate a review much more than the roaylties
14:46 AlexDaniel do we have a ticket or docs or anything about implicit EVAL in regexes?
14:48 AlexDaniel I remember stumbling upon this before, and at the time I was thinking this should not be allowed without MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL, but honestly I remember nothing about this now
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14:50 AlexDaniel I mean stuff like this:
14:50 AlexDaniel m: my $x = ‘hello’; say ‘hello world’ ~~ /<{$x}>/
14:50 camelia rakudo-moar 6d3ba6: OUTPUT: «?hello??»
14:50 AlexDaniel m: my $x = ‘#hello’; say ‘hello world’ ~~ /<{$x}>/
14:50 camelia rakudo-moar 6d3ba6: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5===?Regex not terminated.?at /home/camelia/EVAL_0:1?------> 3anon regex { #hello}7?5<EOL>?Regex not terminated.?at /home/camelia/EVAL_0:1?------> 3anon regex { #hello}7?5<EOL>?Malformed regex?at /home/camelia/EV…»
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14:51 AlexDaniel or was it the right behavior with <{}> ?
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14:55 ufobat hello :)
14:56 ufobat does anyone have any advice what i can do about this: https://gist.github.com/ufobat/30a4cd45430a9c566b4ab680f694b0a3 it is an installation error of HTTP::Request::Suply on my box. but it works on travis with perl6 nom
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15:02 Skarsnik hm weird
15:03 AlexDaniel alright I opened this doc issue, feel free to leave your comments if you understand what's going on there: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1429
15:04 Skarsnik weird
15:05 Skarsnik I know, I am very usefull
15:05 ufobat :D
15:05 AlexDaniel how can I match some generated string from a regex? Like, if I don't want to create a temp variable beforehand
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15:06 AlexDaniel <{/ … /}> ?
15:06 AlexDaniel <{my $foo = …; / $foo /}> ?
15:10 geekosaur <$var>
15:11 AlexDaniel geekosaur: more information?
15:12 geekosaur oh, I think I was answering ane arlier questiona ctually
15:12 AlexDaniel well you can answer any question :)
15:12 AlexDaniel <$var> seems to be doing EVAL too
15:13 geekosaur btw that <{ }> looks like an LTA internal error stopped things, not intended behavior
15:18 japhb Someone was asking about Terminal::Print and the associated examples?  (I updated and/or wrote several of those, maybe I can help?)
15:21 japhb timotimo, nadim: ^^
15:24 japhb .tell timotimo It looks like from the #perl6 logs that you were asking about creating a TUI with Terminal-Print.  I was about to launch into creating high-level widgets for Terminal-Print (e.g. edit boxes, radio buttons, etc.) a few months ago, but got stuck on problems with Uni-level raw input in MoarVM (which blocked e.g. decoding cursor keys and mouse movement).  Those problems might have been fixed now after jnthn++'s considerable work, so might be worth picki
15:24 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
15:27 andrzejku araraloren
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15:41 bioexpress Hello, can somebody say me how I could describe the change from `function( %options )` to `function( *%options )`?
15:42 AlexDaniel oh, what a great question!
15:42 masak bioexpress: you mean what to call the '*'? or what it means?
15:42 bioexpress How to call it
15:42 AlexDaniel I wondered exactly the same thing some time ago
15:42 masak bioexpress: "slurpy"
15:42 masak m: sub f1(%options) { %options<foo> }; say f1({ :foo<1> })
15:42 camelia rakudo-moar 6d3ba6: OUTPUT: «1?»
15:43 masak m: sub f1(*%options) { %options<foo> }; say f1(:foo<1>)
15:43 camelia rakudo-moar 6d3ba6: OUTPUT: «1?»
15:43 bioexpress Form hash to slurpy?
15:43 masak ...and there you see the effects of adding the star
15:43 masak bioexpress: from hash parameter to slurpy hash parameter
15:43 bioexpress Thx!
15:43 masak phz!
15:44 masak er, *pzh! :)
15:44 masak (short for "??????????") :P
15:45 AlexDaniel masak: my question is slightly different! :) How can I have a space in a key when doing this?
15:45 AlexDaniel you can't just slam a pair into it
15:45 AlexDaniel m: sub foo(*%z) { dd %z }; foo :5a, :5b, foobar => ‘world’
15:45 camelia rakudo-moar 6d3ba6: OUTPUT: «{:a(5), :b(5), :foobar("world")}?»
15:45 AlexDaniel m: sub foo(*%z) { dd %z }; foo :5a, :5b, ‘foo bar’ => ‘world’
15:45 camelia rakudo-moar 6d3ba6: OUTPUT: «Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1?  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1?  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1??»
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15:48 AlexDaniel m: sub foo(*%z) { dd %z }; foo :5a, :5b, |(‘hello world’ => ‘world’)
15:48 camelia rakudo-moar 6d3ba6: OUTPUT: «{:a(5), :b(5), "hello world" => "world"}?»
15:48 AlexDaniel well, nevermind
15:48 khw joined #perl6
15:52 japhb AlexDaniel: Perl 6 practically makes it a policy not to prevent you from being too clever for your own good.  ;-)
15:52 AlexDaniel japhb: which issue are you talking about exactly? :)
15:54 japhb AlexDaniel: Oh, just seeing the "But I need a space in the key of my slurpy hash!" unfold.  :-)
15:55 japhb Just reminds me of lots of other place where Perl 6 goes for subtle dissuasion rather than outright stopping you.
16:00 kaare__ joined #perl6
16:02 masak japhb: "not to prevent you from being too clever for your own good" -- what a refreshing way of putting it
16:04 masak japhb: lately I've been thinking of all the (ES.next, but still) linter rules I want in a project to prevent me from doing silly things. JavaScript is a really neat language when propped up from all sides by just the right linter rules.
16:04 masak but Perl 6 has almost the opposite policy from those linter rules. it allows you to be as clever as you want, and it just goes along with it.
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16:07 masak maybe that's being unfair to Perl and Perl 6, though. in the end what it's doing can be called consistency in all things. not putting up arbitrary limits.
16:16 jnthn There are things that Perl 6 outright disallows that you'd catch with a linter in JavaScript though. Such as using undeclared variables. :)
16:17 AlexDaniel m: no strict; $x = ‘but I really want to!’; say $x # :)
16:17 camelia rakudo-moar 6d3ba6: OUTPUT: «but I really want to!?»
16:17 Cabanossi joined #perl6
16:19 jnthn It's your foot :P
16:20 AlexDaniel not after I put it into a module :P :D
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16:25 japhb AlexDaniel: Are you going to call that "FootGun:ver<666>" ?
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16:57 timotimo well done japhb
16:57 yati joined #perl6
16:57 yoleaux 15:24Z <japhb> timotimo: It looks like from the #perl6 logs that you were asking about creating a TUI with Terminal-Print.  I was about to launch into creating high-level widgets for Terminal-Print (e.g. edit boxes, radio buttons, etc.) a few months ago, but got stuck on problems with Uni-level raw input in MoarVM (which blocked e.g. decoding cursor keys and mouse movement).  Those problems might have been fixed now after jnthn++'s considerabl
16:57 yoleaux work, so might be worth pickin
16:57 timotimo did you make the rpg tui?
16:58 timotimo but yeah, should work now
16:58 timotimo the inpup stuff
16:58 timotimo network connection barely exists here
16:58 timotimo typing blind
17:00 yati Hello people, I want to define the infix multiplication operator for my class: what am I doing wrong here? http://paste.scsys.co.uk/564708
17:01 geekosaur yati, most operators are not methods
17:02 geekosaur sub infix:<*> (Interval:D $a, Interval:D $b) { ... }
17:02 yati Ah
17:02 geekosaur actually, correct that
17:02 geekosaur multi sub infix:<*> (Interval:D $a, Interval:D $b) { ... }
17:02 yati What do the :D's do?
17:02 geekosaur and it will be selected based on types. (the :D means it won't be selected for undefined values)
17:03 geekosaur you could omit them but the error messages tend to be worse because they leak implementation details that a caller generally doesn't/shouldn't care about
17:04 yati geekosaur: that worked thanks!
17:04 geekosaur whereas with the :D-s they get an error pointing at the place where tey used the operator, not one pointing into your implementation
17:04 pmurias joined #perl6
17:05 yati geekosaur: where do I find info about :D and other such "extended typing operators" or whatever they are called? :)
17:05 geekosaur (this is not just location but also things like the variable names involved, with the type smiley version it will identify the variable the user passed in, otherwise it names one of your internal variables or parameters)
17:06 pmurias masak: if Perl 6 forced a linter and coding style on you it wouldn't be a Perl
17:06 grondilu_ left #perl6
17:07 geekosaur https://docs.perl6.org/type/Signature#Constraining_Defined_and_Undefined_Values
17:07 grondilu joined #perl6
17:07 yati geekosaur: that is pretty neat, I recall there being a term to describe typing with constraints on values of the types, can't remember it right now.
17:07 yati Thanks for the link
17:07 pharv joined #perl6
17:15 Geth ¦ ecosystem: fb9e08c1c9 | grondilu++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
17:15 Geth ¦ ecosystem: adding Symbol module
17:15 Geth ¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/fb9e08c1c9
17:15 R0b0t1 zengargoyle: I suppose that is a solution
17:16 grondilu should Travis deal with dependencies defined in META6.json?
17:16 grondilu *shouldn't
17:18 * grondilu realises that's much to ask, probably needs to specifie dependencies in .travis.yml or something
17:32 Cabanossi joined #perl6
17:34 yati Okay, so thanks for geekosaur, I managed to get this: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/564709 -- now the question is, if class A extends B, like in my example, how do I wrap B's constructor in A?
17:34 yati The error I get now concerns the fact that I cannot call method parallel() on Interval values, since the argument is a Resistance value
17:35 AlexDaniel greppable6: flatmap
17:35 greppable6 AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/aa5bae6dfcf4096b9e57fc37b52f4696
17:37 geekosaur yati, in general you don't define method new directly. you use the MOP's default new which builds superclasses properly etc.
17:39 geekosaur in this case you would define submethod BUILD, which gives you a structurally complete object including superclasses. (if you define your own new, you have to build superclasses yourself and even create the object yourself; see the "bless" method. it is *not* the same "bless" as in perl 5!)
17:40 geekosaur https://docs.perl6.org/language/classtut#Constructors
17:40 geekosaur https://docs.perl6.org/language/objects#Object_Construction
17:44 * geekosaur wonders if there should be an easily-overridden warning about defining method new directly...
17:45 abraxxa joined #perl6
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17:55 zengargoyle .botsnack
17:55 synopsebot6 om nom nom
17:55 yoleaux :D
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18:13 yati geekosaur: I see, but I still can't figure out how to do this: Interval exposes an alternate ctor, Interval.from-center-percent(), which I want to delegate to from Resistance.new(). I tried making a submethod BUILD (:$val, :$tol) that then calls Resistance.from-center-percent(), but that does not seem to work.
18:14 yati So want: Resistance.new(10, 1) to call return a Resistance object that has the underlying Interval built with Interval.from-center-percent(10, 1)
18:15 yati s/call//
18:18 kaare__ joined #perl6
18:26 SmokeMachine m: my \undef = 42; say undef
18:26 camelia rakudo-moar 6d3ba6: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>?Unsupported use of undef as a value; in Perl 6 please use something more specific:? an undefined type object such as Any or Int,?   :!defined as a matcher,?        Any:U as a type constraint,?    Nil as the ab…»
18:31 geekosaur yati, for that you would indeed need method new (but you must do more than just delegating, see the second link I sent) or you would need to replace submethod BUILDALL
18:31 itaipu joined #perl6
18:34 AlexDaniel m: class Foo { has $.bar = !!! ‘bar is required’ }; Foo.new(:42bar)
18:34 camelia rakudo-moar 998535: ( no output )
18:34 AlexDaniel m: class Foo { has $.bar = !!! ‘bar is required’ }; Foo.new()
18:34 camelia rakudo-moar 998535: OUTPUT: «bar is required?  in method  at <tmp> line 1?  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1??»
18:34 AlexDaniel that's pretty cool
18:35 AlexDaniel I didn't know you could use !!! like this. Although this example would work just fine with die also
18:35 grondilu is there a difference between C<callwith> and C<samewith>?
18:37 miro_ joined #perl6
18:38 * grondilu goes to read https://perl6.party/post/Perl6-But-Heres-My-Dispatch-So-Callwith-Maybe
18:41 HoboWithShotgun joined #perl6
18:41 HoboWithShotgun good localtime you wonderful people
18:42 HoboWithShotgun normally i use "beautiful" rather than "wonderful", but I was at several YAPCs. I know... I know.
18:42 * mst sulks
18:44 wamba joined #perl6
18:44 HoboWithShotgun that's good. as long as you do that, you don't talk
18:44 HoboWithShotgun ;-)
18:44 zengargoyle mst: do you have any code up that shows your "shipping a CUR" like thing?
18:47 mst zengargoyle: code?
18:48 mst I mean the point here is basically you can deploy via tar or rsync (or a fat .deb)
18:49 zengargoyle an example that i can look at...  my mind goes to fatpack and Object::Remote and tak and the like.
18:50 zengargoyle i.e. do you have a sh wrapper that does perl6 -Imycur -e 'Module::run' or something to get that almost fully contained like a fatpack.
18:50 mst in perl5, all I mean is "including the local::lib in the tarball"
18:51 HoboWithShotgun rakudobot: say "äöü".encode("UTF-8").decode("latin1");
18:52 HoboWithShotgun meh, what was the bots' name again?
18:52 AlexWithFootgun m:
18:52 evalable6 AlexWithFootgun, rakudo-moar 9658dd98c: OUTPUT: «»
18:52 mst zengargoyle: but, yeah, you can do that, or stick a 'use lib' in the script, or whatever
18:53 AlexWithFootgun m: say "äöü".encode("UTF-8").decode("latin1");
18:53 camelia rakudo-moar 998535: OUTPUT: «Can not decode a utf-8 buffer as if it were latin1?  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1??»
18:53 eroux joined #perl6
18:53 HoboWithShotgun yeah, that's what i get too
18:54 HoboWithShotgun what am i doing wrong?
18:55 zakharyas joined #perl6
18:56 mst trying to do something that doesn't make sense?
18:57 zengargoyle i was just wondering if you had an automated process for the "all deps but core installed to this cur" and wrap this 'module/script' up like fatpacker.  or if it's still a sorta manual process.
18:58 zakharyas joined #perl6
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19:00 mst I've not particularly automated it
19:00 mst honestly though "use a user that can't write to the global CUR to install everything, hey presto now ~/.perl6 contains what you wanted" is not a terrible approach
19:00 HoboWithShotgun possibly, mst. as i understand it string literals are utf-8, right. the windows shell talks latin1. and so my output is borked
19:01 HoboWithShotgun what do i do to fix this.
19:01 zengargoyle with fresh perl6 that doesn't have any needed modules already installed....
19:01 zengargoyle or removing the site CUR somehow...
19:02 geekosaur HoboWithShotgun, chcp 65001
19:02 geekosaur although I thought it was supposed to check that and translate (possibly to -c8)
19:02 zengargoyle and zef can install to a specific CUR.... i'm just not sure there's a core-only sort of option at the moment to ensure every dep needed goes into CUR...
19:03 Cabanossi joined #perl6
19:04 mst zengargoyle: for perl5 I use a fresh build a lot of the time too
19:04 mst "I could be clever, or I could use a perl with an empty site directory that the build can't write to"
19:04 mst this being systems, clever is the wrong answer
19:04 zengargoyle ah, *nods*
19:05 zakharyas joined #perl6
19:05 HoboWithShotgun geekosaur: now it's broken twice
19:05 geekosaur huh?
19:06 HoboWithShotgun with chcp65001: Negasphäre, without: Negasphäre, should be: Negasphäre
19:06 zengargoyle i've just used the cpanm flags for *everything not core* goes into this ./lib
19:07 mst the cpanm -L flag uses lib::core::only which was extracted from local::lib because I don't entirely trust it
19:08 HoboWithShotgun interesting. with and without actually is different but comes out identical in my client
19:08 geekosaur normalized and non-normalized?
19:08 zengargoyle spinning up a frest perl or whatever is probably better...
19:08 greppable6 joined #perl6
19:08 committable6 joined #perl6
19:08 mst -L is useful for a quick check
19:09 mst for build work I like a fresh perl
19:10 geekosaur (ä can be \x00e5 or \x0065\x0308; the former is the normalized one per Unicode spec.)
19:11 geekosaur (and feeding a non-normalized one in might be just the thing to trigger odd issues, given that windows is not great at locales)
19:12 zengargoyle yeah, makes sense... just a little too much effort for the things i was doing where just trying it once to see if it works was pretty much "it works, i'm done." :)
19:13 geekosaur er \x0061
19:13 geekosaur no 0065
19:14 zengargoyle hehe, because the whole reason i was fatpacking was because they wouldn't change/upgrade/add to the perl that was there... :P
19:15 zengargoyle and it was shared over NFS, so same perl everywhere. :)
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20:02 japhb .tell timotimo Yes, I did the RPG TUI demo.  And I have a present for you:  https://github.com/ab5tract/Terminal-Print/blob/raw-input/examples/tris.p6  (Note the branch.)
20:02 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
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20:16 ufobat when i install a module with zef, it will install the dependencies of the module as well. (if the tests of the module fail, zef wont install nothing at all) but that leads me to the question, what if the tests of the module run another perl6, are the depenencies of the module available to this perl6 invokation. i think they aren't. and thing this has recently been changed, could that be?
20:18 ufobat s/and thing/and i think/
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20:40 masak pmurias: re "if Perl 6 forced a linter on you" -- yes, my point exactly. Perl culture is anti-linter-rules, not because linters are a bad idea, but because it's against the Liberté ideals of Perl.
20:41 andrzejku joined #perl6
20:41 nadim . tell japhb Hi, I wrote this https://github.com/nkh/P6-Data-Dump-Tree/blob/master/examples/folding.pl. It's a begining a of NCurses appliction to display data. The idea was to make a data viewer that could be used by scripts. The folding is handled by the dumper, it just needs ome nice UI. if you'd like to make something or even just translate this example I'll put it in the distro.
20:47 Skarsnik_ joined #perl6
20:49 nadim masak: I want  linter forced on me, looking forward to a Perl::Critic like for P6
20:49 nadim forced by me ;)
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21:31 El_Che moritz: I'll keep you posted when I see it arriving in Safari
21:36 itaipu joined #perl6
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23:02 benjikun Why is the build failing? https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple
23:02 benjikun I've installed it successfully on the latest version
23:05 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
23:07 geekosaur looks like a bug in zef when it was last updated which, note, was 6 months ago)
23:10 benjikun hm
23:26 deep-book-gk_ joined #perl6
23:26 timotimo i just restarted the gtk-simple build on travis-ci
23:26 yoleaux 20:02Z <japhb> timotimo: Yes, I did the RPG TUI demo.  And I have a present for you:  https://github.com/ab5tract/Terminal-Print/blob/raw-input/examples/tris.p6  (Note the branch.)
23:26 timotimo i don't have access to the appveyor because azawawi hosts it
23:27 timotimo though i have my own appveyor of that project
23:27 geekosaur the error there looks no worthwhile (strawberry perl install complaining about unsigned package)
23:28 timotimo bleh, that thing still?
23:28 timotimo i feel like i fixed that like five times already
23:28 timotimo https://ci.appveyor.com/project/timo/gtk-simple/build/job/ydxbm7sxq0876dxu - works here it looks like
23:29 deep-book-gk_ left #perl6
23:46 benjikun is Larry Wall in this irc? lol
23:48 Cabanossi joined #perl6
23:49 geekosaur sometimes
23:53 pharv joined #perl6
23:58 timotimo it's quite possible that we have to bump the lowest version for gtk-simple
23:59 timotimo since zef just doesn't work on such an old version .. or something
23:59 timotimo alternatively, put lost of backwards-compatibility hacks into zef :D

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