Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-08-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 samcv which is why it's 153 times slower than nqp::index
00:00 MasterDuke could try turning on tracing, or line coverage
00:00 samcv it does call nqp::index but idk what else it does...
00:01 MasterDuke or do a perf profile
00:02 samcv what i assumed though is that moarvm would compile the regex. and then when ran it would just have to do a few ops
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00:02 samcv but that was just my assumption
00:06 samcv perf is so weird. i did perf record -a. then run `perf annotate perf.data` and it tells me no symbols
00:06 samcv i'll try perl6-callgrind-m
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00:09 MasterDuke did you build moarvm with --debug=3?
00:09 samcv yes
00:09 samcv it seems to load if i just do `perf annotate` but shows a lot of cpu instructions
00:09 MasterDuke i do `perf record -g --call-graph dwarf`
00:10 MasterDuke and then usually `perf report --call-graph=none --no-children`
00:11 samcv ah ok now i have some info
00:11 samcv though i do get: Failed to open /tmp/perf-16739.map, continuing without symbols
00:12 samcv none of this stuff looks like stuff i can fix
00:13 MasterDuke what are the top things?
00:13 samcv https://gist.github.com/samcv/3b0c2c2dbce9afebcea4c3192ff00294
00:13 samcv MVM_string_index is 0.01% of the cpu usage
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00:19 MasterDuke it's interesting to compare to putting that same string as a literal in the regex
00:19 samcv well it's a pretty long string but i could do that
00:19 MasterDuke no, $a
00:20 samcv oh yeah
00:21 MasterDuke none of the frame and alloc and gc functions in the top
00:21 samcv well this seems to be a pretty big problem
00:21 samcv and at least it makes me very happy that my work hasn't been in vain :P
00:21 samcv just a problem with having it be a variable
00:22 samcv 6
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00:46 newb2 The documentation embedded in the perl6-readline file lib/Readline.pm contains
00:46 newb2 numerous instances of the construction 'C<something>' where "something" is a perl6 scalar,
00:46 newb2 function name or function parameter; plus a few instances of the construction 'L<something>' where
00:47 newb2 "something" is one or more words of ordinary English.  What do these two things represent?
00:47 samcv they are Pod6
00:47 samcv https://docs.perl6.org/language/pod
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00:47 samcv C<blah> is like `blah` in markdown. and L< > is for linking things
00:48 newb2 C<blah> executes the blah instruction?
00:48 samcv MasterDuke, can you help me with this? https://gist.github.com/ecacbea31a89e14d5d0b1dd41dfe118e
00:48 samcv m: https://gist.github.com/ecacbea31a89e14d5d0b1dd41dfe118e
00:48 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>?Confused?at <tmp>:1?------> 3https:7?5//gist.github.com/ecacbea31a89e14d5d0b1d?    expecting any of:?        colon pair?»
00:48 samcv evalable6, https://gist.github.com/ecacbea31a89e14d5d0b1dd41dfe118e
00:48 evalable6 samcv, It looks like a URL, but mime type is ‘text/html; charset=utf-8’ while I was expecting something with ‘text/plain’ or ‘perl’ in it. I can only understand raw links, sorry.
00:49 geekosaur newb2, markdown, not shell. displays as code
00:49 MasterDuke evalable6: https://gist.github.com/samcv/ecacbea31a89e14d5d0b1dd41dfe118e/raw/677fc4bdba69697821aeaeadfef0d9539597a77a/string_bench.p6
00:49 evalable6 MasterDuke, Successfully fetched the code from the provided URL.
00:49 evalable6 MasterDuke, rakudo-moar 593fa5f87: OUTPUT: «Cannot test 593fa5f87fcc97cf3cbafd62f34b3119c9b1fbe3 (Commit exists, but a perl6 executable could not be built for it)»
00:49 geekosaur like github
00:49 samcv good job evalable6
00:50 MasterDuke committable6: HEAD^^ https://gist.github.com/samcv/ecacbea31a89e14d5d0b1dd41dfe118e/raw/677fc4bdba69697821aeaeadfef0d9539597a77a/string_bench.p6
00:50 committable6 MasterDuke, Successfully fetched the code from the provided URL.
00:50 committable6 MasterDuke, ¦HEAD^^: «Test 1: 0.0059511 s?Cannot resolve caller Real(Block: ); none of these signatures match:?    (Mu:U \v: *%_)?  in block <unit> at /tmp/Jx3rPKvSs6 line 4? «exit code = 1»»
00:50 samcv this error makes no sense to me
00:50 samcv i'm not sure what is triggering this.
00:51 MasterDuke maybe try adding a `->` before the block you pass to test-it?
00:53 samcv ok the problem is $b2
00:53 samcv my $b2 = { 0 ? $_ }; # if i pass $b1 to both tests then it works
00:53 samcv it works fine if i do it manually though
00:53 samcv m: my $b2 = { 0 ? $_ }; $b2(-1).say; $b2(10).say
00:53 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «False?True?»
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01:01 MasterDuke samcv: `$rtrn = &code;` need to add () to  &code
01:05 newb2 samcv: OK now understand what these constructions are for in the Pod  'language'
01:05 newb2 samcv: But "p6doc Readline" doesn't render C<something> at all, just strips away the 'C<' and the '>'
01:05 newb2 samcv: Is there a way to render Pod documentation into something other than text, say ps or pdf?
01:05 newb2 samcv: Otherwise I see no purpose for these constructions
01:06 samcv you can render to markdown
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01:06 samcv i've contributed some of the code for the Markdown generator. but POD is meant so you can intersperse documentation and code
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01:08 newb2 Such as the markdown.deb 'markdown' ?
01:08 samcv newb2, install Pod::To::Markdown (https://github.com/softmoth/perl6-pod-to-markdown)
01:08 samcv well there is a PDF and html render too
01:08 newb2 Very good.
01:09 samcv Pod::Render contains an executable that makes it easy to convert from Pod to html or markdown or pdf
01:10 samcv and depends on the different modules which render as those formats and then you only have to learn one command and not have to work with the other modules manually since they have different semantics
01:13 newb2 samcv: Sounds better than Pod::to::Html {{:-/)
01:13 newb2 Am investigating now .. Thanks 10000x
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01:51 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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01:56 AlexDaniel MasterDuke: huh? HEAD is broken?
01:56 AlexDaniel e: say 42
01:56 evalable6 AlexDaniel, rakudo-moar 593fa5f87: OUTPUT: «Cannot test 593fa5f87fcc97cf3cbafd62f34b3119c9b1fbe3 (Commit exists, but a perl6 executable could not be built for it)»
01:57 AlexDaniel I deleted the build to give it another go, but both travis and appveyor say that it is broken on HEAD
01:57 geekosaur m: say 1
01:57 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «1?»
01:57 geekosaur not sure what's up there
01:58 AlexDaniel or, maybe not… travis is still yellow actually
01:58 AlexDaniel c: HEAD^ say 42
01:58 committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦HEAD^: «42»
02:01 AlexDaniel ah, I see
02:02 AlexDaniel NQP revision in rakudo was bumped before the right commit to nqp was pushed
02:02 AlexDaniel so both appveyor and whateverable failed
02:02 AlexDaniel e: say 42
02:02 evalable6 AlexDaniel, rakudo-moar 593fa5f87: OUTPUT: «42»
02:02 AlexDaniel there we go
02:03 AlexDaniel (and camelia does not update so often so by the time it started building it everything was fine)
02:03 AlexDaniel mystery solved!
02:05 mspo is 08 out, then?
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02:07 AlexDaniel mspo: yes, more than two days ago actually
02:15 AlexDaniel m: say $*ARGFILES.slurp
02:15 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «»Wann treffen wir drei wieder zusamm?«?   »Um die siebente Stund‘, am Brückendamm.«?     »Am Mittelpfeiler.«?         »Ich lösche die Flamm.«? »Ich mit«??         »Ich komme vom Norden her.«?        »Und ich vom Süden.«…»
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05:26 u-ou- hi
05:26 u-ou- I had too much coffee
05:27 teatime I know that feel, bro.
05:28 u-ou- is there a tool like perlbrew which will let me install 6 in my home directory without sudo?
05:30 teatime yar, rakudobrew
05:31 teatime http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/#Installing-Rakudo-Star-Source
05:31 u-ou- thank you
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05:52 timotimo 7i believe perlbrew can also build rakudo for you
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06:39 * stmuk_ prepares to fly to .ch
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07:48 El_Che hello perl6!
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08:40 piojo p6: my $indent=2; say so '__x' ~~ / ^ <{'_' x $indent}> x $ /;
08:40 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «True?»
08:40 piojo p6: my $indent=2; say so '__x' ~~ / ^ {'_' x $indent} x $ /;
08:41 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «False?»
08:41 piojo The need to use <{}> to include code in a regex is undocumented, I think--is this a bug?
08:41 piojo I found it mentioned on a blog, saying that braces alone should work
08:42 moritz piojo: more documentation would help, yes
08:42 moritz <{ ... }> is an assertion; if it returns a false value, this regex branch fails
08:43 moritz { ... } just executes code inside a regex, no side effects on the success of the regex (or regex branch)
08:43 piojo moritz: so code braces only work within assertions?
08:43 moritz piojo: no, both { } and <{ }> work; they do different things
08:43 moritz as I tried to explain above :(
08:44 piojo moritz: I think I get it--{} will execute code, but not interpolate
08:44 piojo and assertions do interpolate.
08:44 piojo (with braces, I mean)
08:45 moritz they don't interpolate; the result is cast to Bool, and if it's False, the mach fails
08:45 moritz but if the code for example returns a "a", then that does *not* mean there needs to be an "a" in the string to match
08:46 moritz m: say so 'abc' ~~ /a { say "in code block"; True } /
08:46 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «in code block?True?»
08:46 moritz m: say so 'abc' ~~ /a { say "in code block"; False } /
08:46 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «in code block?True?»
08:46 piojo my $indent=2; say so '__x' ~~ / ^ <{'_' x $indent}> x $ /;
08:46 piojo my $indent=2; say so '__x' ~~ / ^ <{'not_' x $indent}> x $ /;
08:46 piojo err, wrong paste
08:46 moritz oh
08:46 piojo p6: my $indent=2; say so '__x' ~~ / ^ <{'not_' x $indent}> x $ /;
08:46 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «False?»
08:46 moritz m: say 'abc' ~~ / <{ 'b' }> /
08:46 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «?b??»
08:46 moritz piojo: I'm sorry, I was wrong; what I thought about was <?{ ... }>
08:47 piojo moritz: no worries
08:47 moritz <{ ... }> does interpolate
08:47 piojo moritz: So I gather the rule is that assertions interpolate, but naked regex text does not?
08:49 piojo No, it's more complicated than that
08:49 moritz you mean if you use a variable in a regex?
08:50 moritz then it depends on the type of the object in the variable
08:50 piojo just {}
08:50 moritz {} just runs code
08:50 piojo oh, that's interesting
08:50 piojo whoever writes your documentation is a saint, by the way
08:50 moritz thanks (on behalf of the doc writers) :-)
08:50 moritz there's more than one
08:50 piojo yeah, I thought there would be
08:51 piojo the task of putting everything together in an organized fashion is something I can't comprehend
08:51 piojo (I can explain things, but to include everything without turning it into a thousand pages of bullet points? Unimaginable)
08:52 moritz the key realization is that when you start, you can't possibly catch everything
08:52 moritz even my book on regexes won't capture everything that is to know about Perl 6 regexes, and it's going to be 150+ pages
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09:07 nadim make it bigger! or in two tomes. I'll buy both.
09:07 nadim pretty please
09:08 piojo moritz: wow. That's intriguing.
09:10 moritz nadim: I understand. Problem is that I want to finish eventually, too :-)
09:11 moritz if I set as my goal to cover everything that can be covered, I run into analysis paralysis
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09:13 nadim moritz: I understand it's a lot of work :) I'm just being greedy ;)
09:13 piojo moritz: I hope you'll be covering [stacks of]? state, like what's required to parse an indentation-based language
09:13 piojo though I'm gonna try to study and learn that tonight
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09:13 moritz piojo: I do cover stacked symbol tables, and consider a python parsing example too
09:14 piojo I found one blog entry that demonstrates the technique, though its descriptions are very high level so it's a bit of a struggle to understand: http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/parsing-indented-text
09:14 moritz ah, masak++'s blog
09:15 piojo oh, I didn't realize. I'm pretty new around here...
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09:15 piojo moritz: that sounds like a fun example. being able to parse *real* data without needing to write a traditional parser is... well, it'll be liberating
09:16 nadim tools are good too, like this one in P5 http://search.cpan.org/dist/Regexp-Debugger/ there are  entries in the issues that are wishes, some of them good I hope (I wrote them)
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10:35 Zoffix Jotted down some from-sauce instructions that avoid rakudobrew and all its issues and just create a bash alias instead.
10:35 Zoffix huggable: sauce
10:35 huggable Zoffix, Install untested latest development version of Rakudo from source: https://github.com/zoffixznet/r#table-of-contents
10:36 Zoffix Though—just like rakudobrew by default—that still builds a dev commit, rather than latest tested release.
10:38 Zoffix We could use rakudobrew-light. Something that's only for installing a single version (and updating it once in a while to latest release), so it avoids rakudobrew's issues, while keeping the convenience.
10:41 Zoffix timotimo: I don't see an option to build rakudo in perlbrew. Is that some new feature?
10:41 Zoffix it got cperl in it tho
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10:49 sena_kun .
10:52 Zoffix .hugu
10:52 * huggable hugs you
10:57 sena_kun m: my $buf = Buf.new(1); say $buf; say "{$buf}";
10:57 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «Buf:0x<01>?Cannot use a Buf as a string, but you called the Stringy method on it?  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1??»
10:58 sena_kun shouldn't the result be the same?
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11:05 Zoffix sena_kun: no, say() calls .gist, while interpolation calls .Str
11:05 Zoffix m: Buf.new(1).Str
11:05 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «Cannot use a Buf as a string, but you called the Str method on it?  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1??»
11:05 Zoffix m: Buf.new(1).gist.put
11:05 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «Buf:0x<01>?»
11:05 sena_kun m: my $buf = Buf.new(1); say $buf; say "{$buf.gist}";
11:05 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «Buf:0x<01>?Buf:0x<01>?»
11:06 sena_kun great.
11:06 sena_kun thanks!
11:06 Zoffix Any time.
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11:26 atroxaper Hello!
11:26 atroxaper p6: so (%(1, 2), %(1, 2), %(3, 4)).unique.elems ~~ 2
11:26 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:?Useless use of "so " in expression "so (%(1, 2), %(1, 2), %(3, 4)).unique.elems ~~" in sink context (line 1)?»
11:27 atroxaper p6: so (%(1, 2), %(1, 2), %(3, 4)).unique.elems == 3
11:27 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:?Useless use of "so " in expression "so (%(1, 2), %(1, 2), %(3, 4)).unique.elems ==" in sink context (line 1)?»
11:27 moritz m: say (%(1, 2), %(1, 2), %(3, 4)).unique.elems == 3
11:27 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «True?»
11:27 atroxaper Yeah.
11:28 atroxaper How can I change that to get 2 instead of 3 ?
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11:30 moritz m: say (%(1, 2), %(1, 2), %(3, 4)).unique( as => *.perl).elems
11:30 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «2?»
11:31 moritz https://docs.perl6.org/type/List#routine_unique
11:31 atroxaper Hm... Thanks. I had to go in documentation. Sorry :)
11:31 Zoffix No need to be sorry :)
11:33 nadim %(1, 2)i === %(1, 2)
11:33 Zoffix There's also a `with` argument you could give a different op to use to compare with (e.g. &[eqv]), but that gets dog slow quickly if you have a lot of items
11:33 nadim m:(%(1, 2)i === %(1, 2)).say
11:33 evalable6 nadim, rakudo-moar 593fa5f87: OUTPUT: «False»
11:34 nadim m:(%(1, 2) eqv %(1, 2)).say
11:34 evalable6 nadim, rakudo-moar 593fa5f87: OUTPUT: «True»
11:34 Zoffix atroxaper: note that not everything can have .perl called on it. Lazy lists, for example, will throw
11:35 nadim there is an example with @list.unique(:with(&[eqv]))
11:37 atroxaper Zoffix: good point. I see.
11:37 atroxaper Thanks you all :)
11:38 Zoffix Any time!
11:40 atroxaper One more question. Is there documentaion about "Perl6 Memomy Model"? Like in Java. I see https://docs.perl6.org/language/concurrency but it is more like ConcurrencyFramework but not memory model. I what to know what I have to hide on lock eth. And where is read/write lock?! xD
11:45 nadim Not an answer to you question but have you seen this? http://www.jnthn.net/papers/2015-yapcasia-concurrency.pdf  there's also a video for it if you google
11:50 atroxaper I will watch then.
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12:17 Skarsnik Hello
12:17 Skarsnik Hello
12:20 Zoffix \o
12:20 Zoffix Is it me you looking for?
12:21 Skarsnik me? no lol
12:22 Skarsnik me? no lol
12:22 Zoffix Skarsnik: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPQNbTPb-F0
12:25 Zoffix Oh wait, that's the wrong song ^_^
12:26 Zoffix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62XB9IbMnxQ there :)
12:26 Skarsnik I wanted to work on a nativecallable bot but I forget to commit one file in gptrixie. I have to wait to get back at home now x)
12:27 Skarsnik I wanted to work on a nativecallable bot but I forget to commit one file in gptrixie. I have to wait to get back at home now x)
12:27 Zoffix :)
12:27 Zoffix Skarsnik: for some reason all of your lines get duplicated in the chat: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-08-24#i_15065068
12:29 Skarsnik Hm blame the web client of freenode on a very unreliable connectivité
12:29 Skarsnik I could maybe try an irssii on a term but the connectivity is bad
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13:00 nadim Skarsnik: nativecallable? something new?
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13:02 Skarsnik Well, just a bot that call GPTrixie to produce the perl 6 code definition corresponding to C definition
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13:03 doc_ Executing Perl 6 within Rmarkdown so that the resulting html output will inculde perl 6 output with the input code. See question here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/45857934/executing-perl-6-code-in-rmarkdown
13:03 Skarsnik like nativecallable, char *piko(int a, char* b); and it give you the NC code to call it
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13:04 Zoffix wow cool! :D
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13:08 perlpilot A module that does that along with a small utility that can be run on C code would be awesome.  :)
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13:10 Skarsnik gah I get disconnected and irssi lost me the backlog
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13:12 Skarsnik well if you want to generate defintion from C headers you can use https://github.com/Skarsnik/gptrixie
13:12 Skarsnik (does not work currently since since I forget to commit a file x)
13:13 Skarsnik but generating perl6 code from C code (not declaration) I don't know if there is an easy way
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13:21 perlpilot yeah, I dream a little bit sometimes.   gptrixie is awesome though.  Skarsnik++
13:24 Skarsnik I can try relooking at stuff that work with llvm/clang
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13:45 Zoffix Seems Spreadsheet::XLSX doesn't wanna get used via Inline::Perl5. Dies with "Type Inline::Perl5::Object does not support associative indexing" when trying to compile the example from synopsis
14:10 Zoffix Managed to workaround it by making a wrapper Perl package that extracts stuff I want and returns an arrayref
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14:12 Skarsnik a perl5 class could not be binded?
14:13 * Zoffix doesn't understand the question
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14:14 Zoffix it doesn't look like the Inline::Perl5::Object exposes the blessed Perl type, so you can't poke at a blessed hash with .AT-KEY for example
14:14 leont joined #perl6
14:15 Skarsnik I know nothing about I::Perl5 ^^ I was just trying a wild guess
14:16 Skarsnik are all perl5 objects just a weid blessed hash?
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14:18 perlpilot Skarsnik: no, not all.  But many (most?) are.
14:19 tadzik some are a weird blessed array %)
14:19 Skarsnik I stopped doing perl5 stuff like 10 years ago. was like perl 5.10?
14:20 Zoffix Skarsnik: you can make an object by blessing any ref, but most objects are hashes, just due to convenience of mapping attribute <-> hash key
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14:27 nadim Skarsnik: why not patch http://www.swig.org/? I used it a lot a few years ago for perl5, I think it still has a lot of users.
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14:31 Levex ?? ?? ??
14:32 Zoffix u:  ?? ?? ??
14:32 unicodable6 Zoffix, U+0020 SPACE [Zs] ( )
14:32 unicodable6 Zoffix, U+269B ATOM SYMBOL [So] (?)
14:32 unicodable6 Zoffix, 11 characters in total: https://gist.github.com/20f73c9a23c34c5e96845c9cad96ce16
14:32 Zoffix Nothing but the atom renders for me :)
14:34 Levex :-)
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14:40 Skarsnik re?
14:41 Skarsnik <join to #perl6 was synced in 74 secs> fun time
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14:55 Zoffix .
14:56 Zoffix Well, it took only 2 hours of downloading stuff and learning R language, but I managed to answer doc_'s question above. #Success :)
15:10 japhb Nice.  In the notebook space, do we have integration with Jupyter working?  ISTR someone was working on that ....
15:15 sena_kun japhb, working - dunno, but you can look at https://github.com/bduggan/p6-jupyter-kernel
15:15 sena_kun maintainer says it's working fine.
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15:42 japhb sena_kun: Thanks!
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15:59 timotimo japhb, it might be broken with very latest net-zmq
15:59 koto It's already fixed.
15:59 timotimo cool
15:59 timotimo i was on a car ride for a long time
15:59 timotimo now i'm feeling sick
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16:00 Skarsnik re hello :)
16:00 Skarsnik @Home
16:04 raschipi Skarsnik: please name your bot trixie.
16:04 Skarsnik lol
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16:08 Xliff Got a segfault for t/03-service.t in p6-jupyter-kernel
16:08 Xliff sena_kun: You guys did a nice job! ;)
16:08 sena_kun Xliff, zmq version?
16:09 Xliff The latest via panda.
16:09 sena_kun nope, I mean, zeromq library version.
16:09 sena_kun whatever_package_manager_you_use --key-to-see-package-info zeromq
16:10 Xliff 4.2.1
16:10 sena_kun Bang!
16:10 Xliff ?
16:10 Xliff Need to downgrade to 4.1, then?
16:10 sena_kun I wrote that we support 4.1 and 4.2 doesn't work. For me either.
16:10 sena_kun Yes.
16:10 sena_kun Or send me a patch.
16:10 Xliff I'll try to track it down... *sigh*
16:11 sena_kun Because it seems like a ATMOSPHERIC BLACK SUICIDE METAL to fix that, tbh.
16:11 Xliff I honestly think that some of the explicitly managed references are at fault.
16:12 sena_kun It can be, but it not very obviously what exactly... And it works like a charm with 4.1. :/
16:12 Xliff Yeah. Most likely a memory management issue.
16:13 Xliff Or perhaps 4.1 had a memory leak that was fixed in 4.2 and rakudo ends up doing a double free?
16:13 sena_kun https://github.com/zeromq/libzmq/releases - here is the changelog.
16:13 Xliff I dunno... I'd have to look. And gods, I hope the problem is not in libzmq
16:15 Xliff "This release introduces new APIs, but it is ABI compatible with
16:15 Xliff libzmq 4.1.2 and up."
16:15 Xliff Suuuure.
16:15 Xliff Oh well, time for a nap.
16:16 sena_kun o/
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16:32 nadim Hi, I started 8 threads on my 4 core machiineand timed it, it took appx 1/4 of the time of running them separately. then I put everything in a ^50 loop and I am surprised to see that at the 50th iteration it is half as fast. is that a known behavior?
16:35 ugexe how do you know it was 8 threads
16:38 nadim good question, I use start 8 times. the first results come 4 times faster, so it is at least 4 threads, if P6 started the other threads or not, I don't know.
16:39 nadim I actually wnated to see how that can be controlled but there was nothing in the "start" documentation", I gett the number of threads in the pool is controlled somehwere else
16:39 ugexe m: say (await (^5).map({ start { $*THREAD.id } })).unique.elems
16:39 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «3?»
16:40 ugexe yes you would use $*THREAD to create threads directory, which is generally discouraged (but useful for poking around)
16:40 ugexe s/directory/directly/
16:41 nadim I get 3 too, I need to check if I really had it run 4 times faster
16:42 nadim yes 4 times faster
16:42 ugexe m: say (await (^50).map({ start { $*THREAD.id } })).unique.elems
16:42 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «15?»
16:42 ugexe now do you see?
16:43 nadim that it starts threads as necessary? yes
16:43 ugexe you don't notice the difference in threads used vs loop count?
16:44 ugexe of course a loop of 5 (which can essentially do 5 threads and parralelize the entire thing) is faster than trying to spawn more threads than the limit of 16
16:45 nadim I always do 8 starts, but i loop that 50 times
16:45 ugexe unless you are awaiting those 8 starts before iterating again, same thing
16:46 nadim I await of course
16:46 nadim https://nopaste.linux-dev.org/?1160980
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16:47 nadim the loop time varies between 0.25 to 0,40, gradually going up
16:47 nadim https://nopaste.linux-dev.org/?1160981
16:48 ugexe i see. does it get slower if you loop more, or does it eventually top out?
16:48 nadim 2 secs
16:51 nadim after 100 iterations it stabilizes around 0.5s halp the speed of the first iteration
16:51 nadim I try 500 iterations
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16:56 nadim It looks quite stable after a few hundred iterations, maybe a very slight degradation. I guess the garbage collector may also take some cpu time but 50% less effect between the 1st and the 100th iteration is a lot.
16:57 nadim jnthn: any ideas or explanations?
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17:08 mr_ron m: grammar g { token DIGIT { <[0..9]> }; our token DIGIT is export { <.g::DIGIT> } }; say so "1" ~~ /<g::DIGIT>/; import g; say so "2" ~~ /<DIGIT>/ # working way to export grammar token but don't see in roast - IS THERE BETTER / MORE STANDARD WAY?
17:08 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «True?True?»
17:09 [Coke] docs: I think I am going to start adding labels for docs, so we end up with doc-missing, doc-clarify (probably as two tags, actually, so we can still easily find all doc tags, but then I can skip "clarify")
17:10 [Coke] (and hopefully someone with more fortitude than I can deal with the "clarify" ones, the majority of which seem to be asking for very specific things but not actually providing the text for them.)
17:11 [Coke] sorry, specific is the wrong word. particular is better.
17:15 mr_ron https://github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master/S05-grammar/methods.t#L38 suggests it may be valid.  Any objection to doing it that way?
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17:32 Zoffix .ask AlexDaniel is quotable's database available somewhere? Does it include timestamps? I'm curious to extract data about what first timers—nicks who never been on the channel before—ask about.
17:32 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
17:32 AlexDaniel .
17:32 yoleaux 17:32Z <Zoffix> AlexDaniel: is quotable's database available somewhere? Does it include timestamps? I'm curious to extract data about what first timers—nicks who never been on the channel before—ask about.
17:32 AlexDaniel one second…
17:34 AlexDaniel Zoffix: alright, what about this? https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/183ed52eaa10ae507537fa0db27143e2
17:35 AlexDaniel Zoffix: it should create a couple of folders with .json files in them
17:35 AlexDaniel I think should be trivial to process them
17:36 Zoffix AlexDaniel: thanks.
17:36 AlexDaniel Quotable takes these json files and puts all of this stuff into one file with fields separated by nulls
17:37 AlexDaniel (so that there's no json decoding or other unnecessary stuff, this way it's relative fast to process millions of messages)
17:37 AlexDaniel Zoffix: does it work?
17:37 AlexDaniel I haven't tried running it in a while…
17:38 Zoffix AlexDaniel: I'm gonna try it a bit later :) I didn't expect you to respond right awy.
17:41 Zoffix Is anyone interested in adding Rakudo support to knitr? From what I understand it's a code-executer for R lang's markdown. A person here suggesting a PR to be made to to knitr's repo to add support: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/45857934/executing-perl-6-code-in-rmarkdown/45864801#comment78693695_45864801
17:47 AlexDaniel Zoffix: yeah, does work. It will take a while the first time you run it because there's a lot of stuff to fetch and it is not parallelized, but it works
17:48 Sgeo joined #perl6
17:48 Zoffix cool
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18:12 Geth ¦ doc: 18f5adcedd | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Cool.pod6
18:12 Geth ¦ doc: Improve Cool's description/summary
18:12 Geth ¦ doc:
18:12 Geth ¦ doc: Fixes #1095
18:12 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/18f5adcedd
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18:44 Geth ¦ doc: 52fd65b266 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Cool.pod6
18:44 Geth ¦ doc: Use more precise language in Cool summary
18:44 Geth ¦ doc:
18:44 Geth ¦ doc: Addresses #1095
18:44 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/52fd65b266
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18:57 Geth ¦ doc: 6843510b5c | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
18:57 Geth ¦ doc: Clearify our timezone offsets are in seconds
18:57 Geth ¦ doc:
18:57 Geth ¦ doc: Fixes #1446
18:57 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6843510b5c
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20:53 kannan hello friends! yesterday was a humbling deep dive on day 1 (after reading the perlintro resources) lol. i am working thru the free edition of thinkperl6 now. Glad to be here. whether perl6 is the best 1st language or not, this is the friendliest community one can see.
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21:11 b2gills kannan: https://github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master/S27-perl-culture-draft.pod6
21:17 kannan b2gills : very good, thanks!
21:21 Xliff b2gills: Minor typo fix for S27. PR submitted.
21:22 b2gills I would like to see it moved out of “draft” status at some point
21:26 b2gills Xliff: PR's for that repository get posted to #perl6-dev, no need to notify
21:29 Xliff kk
21:29 * Xliff is now playing: Dug Pinnick - If You Fuk Up
21:29 Xliff \o\ /o/ \o\
21:30 Xliff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNYaySOx_2c&amp;ab_channel=dUgPinnick
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22:50 Zoffix We're also one of the few communities with free hugs!
22:50 skids joined #perl6
22:50 Zoffix .hug
22:50 * huggable hugs everyone
22:50 Zoffix \o/
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22:53 Zoffix Some more writing on friendliness and culture by audreyt++ https://medium.com/@audrey.tang/lessons-i-ve-learned-32f5d8107e34   http://pugs.blogs.com/audrey/2009/08/my-hobby-troll-hugging.html
22:53 storer42 joined #perl6
22:55 Zoffix Xliff: I sent you an invite to perl6 GitHub org (surprised you didn't have one already). You can accept it on https://github.com/perl6/ and that'll give you direct commit access to most of our repos.
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23:05 * Zoffix is playing Babymetal - Headbanger
23:05 Zoffix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IzR_ClTE8Y :)
23:08 sena_kun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdobHDjcPLw
23:10 Xliff Zoffix++
23:10 Xliff .hug Zoffix
23:10 * huggable hugs Zoffix
23:10 Zoffix \o/
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23:13 Xliff Nice links for music BTW.
23:13 Xliff A bit more screaming than I like. That's why I listen to Pinnick (and King's X) and other bands he's in.
23:13 samcv argh more interpolate issues
23:13 Xliff There are actual vocals :)
23:13 samcv m: my $var = 'st'; say '?' ~~ /:i $var/
23:13 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «Nil?»
23:13 Xliff Although Babymetal was kyute!
23:14 samcv i need to find someone who really knows the internals of perl 6 regexes...
23:14 Xliff m: my $var = 'st'; say '?' ~~ /:i {$var}/
23:14 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «???»
23:14 samcv literals are treated differently than variables
23:14 Xliff Well, that's the one workaround I've come up with.
23:15 Xliff m: my $var = 'st'; say '?' ~~ /:i <$var>/
23:15 camelia rakudo-moar 593fa5: OUTPUT: «Nil?»
23:15 Xliff *shrug*
23:15 Xliff Besides, MoarVM internals give me the heebies.
23:15 Xliff I'm still trying to grok nqp.
23:15 samcv this is nqp/perl6 which has the regex engine
23:15 samcv not moarvm stuff
23:16 Xliff See whut I mean! I didn't even know that.
23:16 Xliff There are a whole bunch of things I wanna implement in nqp.
23:17 * Xliff thinks about working on a MangledHash class.
23:18 Zoffix Note that there's no user-facing interface for nqp. As in: it can be changed at any time without any notice. If you use an nqp op, your code might break in the future if that op is changed, renamed, or deleted.
23:19 samcv and i need to figure out what takes /$var/ 150 times more time to do stuff than /literal/
23:20 samcv but the regex engine is really confusing and i have only worked on the literal part and not sure what happens for variables. and if the code for that is in rakudo or nqp...
23:20 samcv since i see no nqp tests that have variables in the regex needle like /$this/
23:21 skids https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjB23s_mZGM <-- quite more mellow screaming, at risk of dating myself.
23:21 Zoffix nqp: my $x := "foo"; say("foobar" ~~ /$x/)
23:21 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT: «foo?»
23:21 Zoffix My wild guess would be it's in nqp.
23:24 Zoffix More mellow vocals from Laura Nichol :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JxYsNTKG5k
23:25 Xliff skids: Ooh! Nice!
23:27 Xliff Zoffix: Eeh... Laura isn't bad. I can deal with some screaming. Hell, I listen to Sevendust
23:27 Xliff Still. I prefer my metal bass-heavy with harmonics. Either in the vocals or the guitars. Preferably both.
23:28 Zoffix :)
23:28 skids That and Clutch's Robot Hive were pretty much my last metal albums.  Well 10000 days of course.
23:32 skids Some guy wrote a book making the case in earnest that the very best year for music was the year I was born.
23:33 skids So to *really* date myself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gGPv9hngk4
23:35 samcv argh there's so much broken i just found
23:35 samcv this works: my $var = 'A'; 'Ea' ~~ /:i $var/ but if i do ignoremark+ignorecase it doesn't
23:36 samcv i'm seeing it looks like some things in the AST are not passing along the regex subtypes (i think)
23:36 Xliff \o/ HAWKWIND!
23:36 * Xliff just dated himself, too.
23:36 Xliff skids++
23:38 skids samcv: Past a certain point, you don't need RT anymore to find bugs :-)
23:38 samcv i should probably add RT's though
23:40 sena_kun night coding session is over... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Knc3l8l9o and sleep. o/
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23:42 Zoffix \o
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23:57 samcv going to focus on what i can do though. like making nqp::index 6.79579631 faster when the haystack is made up of strands and the needle is only one grapheme
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