Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-10-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:30 Geth ¦ perl6.org: e0e740676b | raiph++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/index.html
00:30 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Update squashathon date
00:30 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/e0e740676b
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00:50 ipatrol Does the `unit` keyword have any meaning outside of the `unit module ...` idiom?
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00:52 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: there's some NYI stuff associated with 「unit」
00:52 AlexDaniel_ like
00:52 AlexDaniel_ m: unit $x
00:52 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤unit scoped variables not yet implemented. Sorry.␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3unit $x7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        constraint␤»
00:52 ipatrol what is a "unit scoped variable"?
00:52 ipatrol a global variable?
00:53 mst I thought it was basically for block constructs
00:53 mst unit module, unit package, unit class, unit sub MAIN
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00:54 ipatrol mst: block constructs can be variables (first-class objects)
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00:59 ipatrol Though, I wish there were a cleaner way to do the `$_ = CALLER::<$_>` thing that many of the builtins do
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01:35 geekosaur I feel like there's confusion of the unit keyword with the UNIT:: namespace. they're related but not identical
01:38 ipatrol I know that
01:39 ipatrol geekosaur: hashes can be slipped into captures as names parameters, yes?
01:40 geekosaur yes? but there are some subtleties since it also needs to be possible to slip them as Pair parameters
01:40 geekosaur I don't recall the details unfortunately
01:40 geekosaur er, positional Pairs
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01:41 ipatrol m: my %h = 'a'=>'b','c'=>'d','101'=>'102'; my $c = \(|%h); say $c.perl;
01:41 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «\("101" => "102", :a("b"), :c("d"))␤»
01:42 ipatrol m: my %h = 'a'=>'b','c'=>'d','101'=>'102'; my $c = \(|%h); say $c.list; say $c.hash;
01:53 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «()␤Map.new((101 => 102, a => b, c => d))␤»
01:53 ipatrol m: my @a = [1,2,3,4]; my %h = 'a'=>'b','c'=>'d','101'=>'102'; my $c = \(|@a, |%h); say $c.list; say $c.hash;
01:53 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «(1 2 3 4)␤Map.new((101 => 102, a => b, c => d))␤»
01:53 MasterDuke AlexDaniel_: nice summary, i think it would be good to do on a regular basis (e.g., weekly)
01:53 * ipatrol wonders where that statement came from
01:53 geekosaur scrollback
01:53 MasterDuke ipatrol: mine? AlexDaniel_ mentioned this ( https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/0cdb8ea5bd55a7a3feabc4b0701a20e1 ) awhile ago
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01:53 geekosaur 23:12 UTC
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01:54 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
01:54 committable6 AlexDaniel_, https://gist.github.com/83ce4a1ea73a429131713367ee23542e
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01:56 * ipatrol notes that even the bot is disturbed
01:56 AlexDaniel_ ? :)
01:56 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: anyway, I think we want a ticket for that
01:57 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: can it be put on github?
01:57 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: no, unfortunately
01:57 AlexDaniel_ huggable: rakudobug
01:57 huggable AlexDaniel_, Report bugs by emailing to <rakudobug@perl.org>. See also: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/rt-introduction
01:57 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: the easiest way is to write an email to that address ↑
01:58 AlexDaniel_ formatting is supported, you can also attach files
01:58 ipatrol that reminds me, I haven't changed my yahoo password
01:58 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: please do mention that it was bisected to https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/234287170cb7dd234ffc90271d762b1c106bc57f and maybe also include this link https://gist.github.com/83ce4a1ea73a429131713367ee23542e
02:02 ipatrol aye
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02:09 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: ok, done
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02:23 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: thanks!
02:24 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: reading the docs, interesting, so apparently all object attributes are actually function calls that return the item, optionally in a rewritable container?
02:25 AlexDaniel_ well, method calls, but yeah
02:25 ryn1x How would I regex all the digits in a string? Something like "a123-456c(789)" -> "123456789", where the pattern of "stuff" interspersed between the digits is not known.
02:27 AlexDaniel_ m: ‘a123-456c(789)’.comb(/\d/).say
02:27 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)␤»
02:27 ipatrol m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my $f = Foo.new('u'); say $f::bar;
02:27 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «Default constructor for 'Foo' only takes named arguments␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
02:27 ipatrol orite
02:27 ipatrol m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(bar=>'u'); say $f::bar;
02:27 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «(Any)␤»
02:28 ipatrol m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(bar=>'u'); say $f::&bar;
02:28 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed lookup of ::&bar; please use ::('&bar'), ::{'&bar'}, or ::<&bar>␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3bar }; my $f = Foo.new(bar=>'u'); say $f7⏏5::&bar;␤»
02:28 ipatrol m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(bar=>'u'); say $f::('&bar');
02:28 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «No such symbol '$&bar'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
02:28 ipatrol ?
02:29 ryn1x AlexDaniel_: .comb Thats what I needed! Thanks!
02:29 AlexDaniel_ ryn1x: \o/
02:30 ipatrol m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my \f = Foo.new(bar=>'u'); say &(f::bar);
02:30 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «Could not find symbol '&bar'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
02:30 ipatrol m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my \f = Foo.new(bar=>'u'); say &(f.bar);
02:30 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «u␤»
02:34 ipatrol m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(bar=>'u'); say $f::bar.perl;
02:34 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «Any␤»
02:34 ipatrol m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(bar=>'u'); say $f::<$bar>.perl;
02:34 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «Failure.new(exception => X::AdHoc.new(payload => "Type Foo does not support associative indexing."), backtrace => Backtrace.new)␤»
02:36 ipatrol m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(bar=>'u'); say $f.^methods;
02:36 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «(bar BUILDALL)␤»
02:37 AlexDaniel_ m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(bar=>‘u’); say $f."bar"();
02:37 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «u␤»
02:37 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: I don't really understand what you're trying to do
02:37 AlexDaniel_ so not sure how to help
02:38 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: access the method object &bar without invoking it
02:39 AlexDaniel_ m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(bar=>‘u’); say WHAT $f.^can("bar")[0];
02:39 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «(Method)␤»
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02:39 AlexDaniel_ m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(bar=>‘u’); dd $f.^can("bar")[0];
02:39 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «Method bar = method bar (Foo:D $: *%_) { #`(Method|72527048) ... }␤»
02:39 geekosaur m: class Foo { has $.bar }; my $f = Foo.new(bar=>‘u’); say bar($f:);
02:39 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «u␤»
02:41 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: yeah, I was just looking through the metamodel docs to figure out how to do that
02:42 ipatrol It's interesting that Perl 6 makes the method the fundamental constituent of objects, while in Python, attributes are
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03:05 ipatrol So adding or modifying attributes of an object requires splicing in a role containing them
03:17 geekosaur you can also manipulate the MOP directly, but that's kinda horridly ugly
03:18 geekosaur I managed to add an attribute but I haven't figured out how to access it quickly yet....
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03:24 ipatrol geekosaur: right now I've moved on to trying to abuse container binding to create attributes that are actually references to other objects :-)
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03:32 clouds I've got build issue of rakudo on macOS and with parameters --backends=moar,jvm
03:32 clouds over the released source rakudo-star-2017.07
03:33 clouds error messages :make: *** No rule to make target `src/vm/jvm/runners/nqp-j', needed by `nqp-j'.  Stop.\n Command failed (status 512): make\n Command failed (status 512): perl Configure.pl --prefix=/usr/local/Cellar/rakudo-star/2017.07 --backends=moar,jvm --make-install
03:34 clouds Should I report a bug?
03:34 MasterDuke clouds: you'll need --gen-nqp added to your Configure command
03:36 clouds cool, I'll give a try. I copied build command from brew build script.
03:42 clouds still failed, same reason
03:44 clouds It seems i passed --gen-nqp but not recognized by Configure.pl?
03:44 clouds my command line: perl Configure.pl --prefix=/usr/local/Cellar/rakudo-star/2017.07 --backends=moar,jvm --gen-nqp --make-install
03:44 MasterDuke might need --gen-moar also
03:45 clouds Warning: JVM backend does not yet support all modules Building NQP ... perl Configure.pl --prefix=/usr/local/Cellar/rakudo-star/2017.07 --backends=moar,jvm --make-install  Creating tools/build/install-jvm-runner.pl ...
03:45 clouds it outputs
03:45 Xliff clouds: If the output is more than 3 lines
03:45 Xliff clouds: Please put it online in a gist, pastebin or equivalent service.
03:45 Xliff clouds: Thanks!
03:46 clouds sorry
03:46 Xliff No worries. Just an FYI.
03:47 MasterDuke clouds: the jvm backend is known to be not fully functional. do you need it? if not, just remove it from the --backends= and things should work better
03:47 AlexDaniel_ m: say “\xFFF9日本語\xFFFAにほんご\xFFFB”
03:47 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «日本語にほんご␤»
03:47 clouds https://pastebin.com/S1Z2r6Zk
03:48 clouds I'd like to try jvm, I know there's prebuilt binary without jvm on macOS
03:49 clouds but now it even can't build
03:49 MasterDuke i don't see any error, just that warning
03:50 MasterDuke clouds: maybe try not building moar and jvm at the same time?
03:51 MasterDuke e.g., --backends=jvm --gen-nqp in the call to Configure, --backends=moar --gen-moar in another
03:51 clouds this is full output https://pastebin.com/38kCYXAn
03:51 clouds I think there's some problem with my source code, I don't have https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/master/src/vm/jvm/runners/nqp-j this file locally
03:52 clouds Is it generated?
03:52 clouds the error message complains about this file
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03:53 MasterDuke hm, that's a little ood
03:54 MasterDuke *odd
03:54 ugexe does rakudo star use the default Configure.pl?
03:54 clouds I download it from https://rakudo.perl6.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-2017.07.tar.gz (not using git version)
03:55 clouds and the Configure.pl is at root dir of the .tar.gz
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03:55 clouds ls shows: Configure.pl  LICENSE       MANIFEST      MoarVM        README        build_msi.bat config.status docs          modules       nqp           patches       ports         rakudo        tools
03:58 ipatrol MasterDuke: does bless call TWEAK, or is that done by the default new?
03:59 ipatrol Or AlexDaniel_ , I'm not picky
04:00 MasterDuke ipatrol: i don't really know bless/new very well, couldn't say, sorry
04:00 AlexDaniel_ I dunno, let's look at TWEAK implementation?
04:01 AlexDaniel_ bisect: class Foo { method TWEAK { say 'hello' } }; Foo.new
04:01 bisectable6 AlexDaniel_, Bisecting by output (old=2015.12 new=12fcece) because on both starting points the exit code is 0
04:01 bisectable6 AlexDaniel_, bisect log: https://gist.github.com/24b6bf195d2853ec83050f8711bf6a50
04:01 bisectable6 AlexDaniel_, (2016-11-05) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9409d685b78f83435aa9420f3a76fa79aae73698
04:01 AlexDaniel_ err not exactly what I was looking for
04:01 AlexDaniel_ bisect: new=9409d685b7^ class Foo { method POSTBUILD { say 'hello' } }; Foo.new
04:01 bisectable6 AlexDaniel_, Bisecting by output (old=2015.12 new=9409d685b7^) because on both starting points the exit code is 0
04:02 bisectable6 AlexDaniel_, bisect log: https://gist.github.com/6a5c4f1364695730144100110de587d3
04:02 bisectable6 AlexDaniel_, (2016-11-05) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fdc90a2e7610ed24cd208c169b9472c852c26327
04:02 AlexDaniel_ that's it?
04:02 clouds how does rakudo-star-2017.07.tar.gz packaged? I found nqp-j in .gitignore maybe some script prune it when packaging
04:03 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: where is Mu's any defined>
04:03 ipatrol *?
04:03 AlexDaniel_ .tell stmuk there's a question about rakudo star https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-10-09#i_15276314
04:03 yoleaux AlexDaniel_: I'll pass your message to stmuk.
04:03 geekosaur s: Mu, 'any'
04:03 SourceBaby geekosaur, Something's wrong: ␤ERR: Cannot resolve caller sourcery(Mu, Str); none of these signatures match:␤    ($thing, Str:D $method, Capture $c)␤    ($thing, Str:D $method)␤    (&code)␤    (&code, Capture $c)␤  in block <unit> at -e line 6␤␤
04:04 geekosaur s: Mu, &any
04:04 SourceBaby geekosaur, Something's wrong: ␤ERR: Cannot resolve caller sourcery(Mu, Sub+{<anon|94816459964192>}); none of these signatures match:␤    ($thing, Str:D $method, Capture $c)␤    ($thing, Str:D $method)␤    (&code)␤    (&code, Capture $c)␤  in block <unit> at -e line 6␤␤
04:04 geekosaur feh
04:04 geekosaur can nver figure out how to use that thing...
04:04 AlexDaniel_ it does not work with everything
04:05 geekosaur oh,it just doesn't handle mu
04:05 geekosaur oh well
04:05 geekosaur suppose mu is complex to handle given all the magic around it
04:05 AlexDaniel_ m: say Mu.any
04:05 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «No such method 'any' for invocant of type 'Mu'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
04:06 AlexDaniel_ there's no .any in Mu?
04:06 ipatrol geekosaur: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/92e51c3d4e2145c159d4db32063262524ef86ee0/src/core/Mu.pm#L111
04:06 MasterDuke clouds: in my checkout of nqp:           tools/build/install-jvm-runner.pl:33:    my $install_to = File::Spec->catfile($realpath, 'bin', 'nqp-j');
04:06 MasterDuke do you have that?
04:07 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: so TWEAK is being added to the buildplan, but I don't really know how this stuff works
04:07 ipatrol and new calls bless, which simply calls BUILDALL, which invokes the buildplan
04:08 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: fwiw, I enjoy your questions :)
04:08 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: it's certainly interesting to pry into the guts of the beast :-)
04:08 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: why are you doing that, by the way? :)
04:09 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: trying to create a hard container binding to a class attribute through the constructor
04:10 ipatrol and I was seeing if a custom TWEAK was the best way to do that, or if I should write a privmethod and invoke it through my new()
04:11 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: I'm just thinking, if you find working with the guts interesting, maybe you'd also find it interesting to fix a couple of things? :)
04:11 AlexDaniel_ buggable: tag LHF
04:11 buggable AlexDaniel_, There are 7 tickets tagged with LHF; See http://fail.rakudo.party/t/LHF for details
04:12 AlexDaniel_ maybe start with something simple and then pick any other ticket of any complexity, have no doubts that you'll manage :)
04:12 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: Considering how many side projects I've lost track of this last month alone, I'm afraid the answer will have to be False.
04:14 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: this reminds me of something
04:14 * AlexDaniel_ buries his head in the sand
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04:14 * AlexDaniel_ sees no other projects and no TODOs
04:15 AlexDaniel_ By the way, folks, I'm looking for suggestions for the next SQUASHathon
04:16 AlexDaniel_ preferably something easy after a relatively difficult rakudo squashathon
04:17 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: do instances of a class automatically trust their own parent class?
04:17 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: “trust”?
04:18 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: https://docs.perl6.org/language/classtut#Private_Methods
04:18 AlexDaniel_ … TIL
04:18 MasterDuke AlexDaniel_: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/issues maybe
04:20 AlexDaniel_ MasterDuke: just 14 issues open. We've managed to resolve 17 *rakudo* tickets this time, so maybe that's not enough
04:21 MasterDuke roast issues?
04:21 AlexDaniel_ that's a good idea, yea
04:21 AlexDaniel_ buggable: TESTNEEDED
04:21 AlexDaniel_ buggable: tag TESTNEEDED
04:21 buggable AlexDaniel_, There are 56 tickets tagged with TESTNEEDED; See http://fail.rakudo.party/t/TESTNEEDED for details
04:22 AlexDaniel_ all these are roast issues also
04:22 AlexDaniel_ … mostly
04:22 AlexDaniel_ some of them should go to rakudo/t but we can include that
04:22 MasterDuke maybe some of the 6.d review could be done during the squashathon
04:23 AlexDaniel_ 6.d squashathon! What a wonderful idea
04:23 MasterDuke anywho, i'm off to sleep, later all...
04:24 ipatrol tbqh, I think Perl 6 gets a little anal about private methods and attributes
04:26 Zoffix 6.d don't sound like a good idea. A lot of newcomers are interested in squashathon. I thought rakudo was a bit high-level bar as it were; with 6.d it's even worse. What do we tell them? Here's our language spec; look through it and find anything we don't want the language to be like?
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04:28 AlexDaniel_ Zoffix: yeah, you're right
04:29 AlexDaniel_ fwiw I also thought that the bar was a bit too high, but we had some newcomers contributing so I'm fairly pleased
04:32 buggable New CPAN upload: v0.1.30.tar.gz by UGEXE https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/U/UG/UGEXE/Perl6/v0.1.30.tar.gz
04:33 Zoffix :/
04:34 Zoffix Wonder that modules.perl6.org will do with that dist. It figures out the name after chopping off version.. and there ain't no name here
04:35 AlexDaniel_ module ‘’ that is then!
04:35 ipatrol '' is a nice name for a module :-P
04:36 AlexDaniel_ m: require ‘’
04:36 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «Must specify something as a path: did you mean '.' for the current directory?␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
04:36 AlexDaniel_ what?
04:36 ipatrol m: use '';
04:36 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    use used at line 1␤␤»
04:36 ipatrol m: require '';
04:36 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «Must specify something as a path: did you mean '.' for the current directory?␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
04:37 AlexDaniel_ m: use lib ‘’
04:37 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «===SORRY!===␤Too few positionals passed to 'repository-for-spec'; expected 3 arguments but got 0␤»
04:37 AlexDaniel_ /o\
04:37 ipatrol \o/
04:37 ipatrol キタ━━━(゜∀゜)━━━ッ!!
04:38 ipatrol huh, that's weird
04:38 AlexDaniel_ RT #132249
04:38 synopsebot RT#132249 [new]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=132249 [LTA] use lib ‘’ spills guts (use lib ‘’)
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04:41 AlexDaniel_ RT #132250
04:41 synopsebot RT#132250 [new]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=132250 [LTA] require ‘’ suggests ‘.’ but that makes no sense (require ‘’)
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04:46 AlexDaniel_ m: class Foo { }; Foo.^add_method(‘’, my method x(Foo:) { say 42 }); Foo.new.""()
04:46 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «42␤»
04:46 Zoffix heh
04:46 AlexDaniel_ yay! Method ‘’
04:46 Zoffix it suggests it because it's trying to make IO::Path
04:46 Zoffix m: ''.IO
04:46 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «Must specify something as a path: did you mean '.' for the current directory?␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
04:47 AlexDaniel_ yeah, I've linked that in the ticket
04:50 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: this is, by the way, part of what I meant when I said I didn't think including IO in Cool was a great idea
04:53 Zoffix require can take an path tho
04:53 ipatrol Personally, I think they should be their own quoting construct, like regexes are
04:57 ipatrol Since they really aren't typical data or user strings, but rather are references to places in the filesystem
04:58 Zoffix ?
04:58 ugexe you mean a uri, which is a string?
04:58 geekosaur needing magic quotes for file paths is just asking for trouble, I think
04:59 ipatrol geekosaur: I actually think it would prevent certain security problems while improving compatibility
05:00 ipatrol and it wouldn't need anything more than one or two new adverbs for the Q operator
05:00 Zoffix ipatrol: we don't have any magic to make IO::Paths out of strings. It's the .IO coercer that does it. `require` simply makes an IO::Path under the hood which causes the error. This has nothing to do with IO::Path beingh cool
05:01 Zoffix There was a `qp` quoter (like `qx//`) in the spec, but it was tossed on acocunt of being useless
05:01 Zoffix *account
05:04 ipatrol Zoffix: I don't think it's any more or less useful than having IO be a method of Cool
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05:06 Zoffix ... it is a method of Cool :/
05:07 ipatrol Zoffix: exactly my point. It's a difference of implementation
05:07 Zoffix ?
05:07 * Zoffix doesn't get the point
05:08 Zoffix IO::Path shouldn't be Cool because not all IO::Paths can have a numeric views
05:09 Zoffix ugh my keyboard is having a stroke again ___
05:10 ipatrol Zoffix: personally, I'm not much a fan of the Cool system. I tend to think type coercions should be done explicitly
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05:13 Zoffix Well, I'm sure plenty of languages do that :P
05:15 ipatrol And therefore I'd say most of the mathematical functions like asin and log should be from the Numeric role instead
05:16 Zoffix They are :)
05:17 ipatrol Zoffix: they're not. They're supplied by Cool. Numeric is just a role that has one or two methods
05:19 ipatrol well maybe that's a slight understatement. I count 9 mathematical methods provided by Numeric. Cool provides 36.
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05:20 Zoffix It doesn't tho. It coerces the argument to Numeric and calls delegates the call
05:21 Zoffix That's the whole point of Cool; that things that can be used as either a number or a string can be just used without any manual coercion.
05:21 * Zoffix &
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05:26 ipatrol ...
05:30 moritz putting methods more methods into Numeric doesn't provide any benefits, because the implementation is different for the various numeric types
05:31 moritz and since this is not java, putting a stub / interface-like method doesn't have any practical benefits
05:33 geekosaur and, this is kinda a core design decision that is not open to discussion
05:33 geekosaur the time to discuss it was like 2004
05:33 ipatrol geekosaur: I was messing around with the Encarta Encyclopedia on a Windows XP back then
05:35 ipatrol geekosaur: I was actually thinking about a pragma that would tighten the type rules
05:36 geekosaur it's not that simple. an alternative setting might be doable though
05:38 ipatrol geekosaur: I think all it would need to do would be to remove most of the functions from Cool and reassign them to either Numeric or Stringy, as appropriate
05:38 geekosaur and that requires a new setting
05:38 ipatrol a setting as in a command line flag?
05:38 geekosaur unless you really want to rewire everything at runtime and incur the resulting performance penalty
05:39 ipatrol geekosaur: ideally not, although I could write a runtime rewiring just as a PoC
05:39 geekosaur no. the setting is the base language you're presented with
05:39 geekosaur Prelude, standard library, whatever
05:40 geekosaur we have I think 3 currently: 6.c, RESTRICTED which is 6.c with the IO stuff removed, and 6.d.PREVIEW
05:40 ipatrol oh, you mean the version
05:49 ipatrol geekosaur: No, I simply meant introducing a pragma that would allow developers to decide how strict the *built in functions* are on types
05:49 geekosaur do you think, just maybe, you could examine how the language is put together before deciding you know how simple your proposal is?
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05:56 ipatrol geekosaur: I have. my thought is to throw a (if $*STRICT {Numeric} else {Cool}) into the type constraints for the routines
05:57 ipatrol (and likewise for stringy functions)
05:59 ipatrol geekosaur: actually reading the source, I might have a simpler way to do it
06:02 ipatrol In Cool.pm, everything from what is now line 6 through line 56 could be put inside a conditional, and that would implement about half of my proposal
06:04 ipatrol The stringy methods would require a little more reorganizing, but that's ti
06:04 ipatrol *it
06:06 sacomo hi all o/
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06:10 ipatrol m: say "Hello world!";
06:10 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «Hello world!␤»
06:10 ipatrol m: say "Hello sacomo!";
06:10 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «Hello sacomo!␤»
06:10 sacomo hi ipatrol
06:11 AlexDaniel_ m: say “Hello %*ENV<ME>”
06:11 camelia rakudo-moar 12fcec: OUTPUT: «Hello AlexDaniel_␤»
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06:12 sacomo anyone here working on cro?
06:15 ipatrol AlexDaniel_: you're passing it the calling user via the system environment>
06:15 ipatrol *?
06:15 AlexDaniel_ ipatrol: yeah, camelia does
06:16 ipatrol after shellshock, that sounds like a moderately bad idea
06:20 AlexDaniel_ maybe
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06:46 teatime ... did I just paste a bunch of noise/spam?
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06:46 bitrauser_ Good morning everyone o/
06:46 bitrauser_ teatime: I don't think so
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06:53 moritz you can always check the logs at https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today
06:53 moritz which gives you an impartial view on what happened here
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07:16 stmuk .
07:16 yoleaux 04:03Z <AlexDaniel_> stmuk: there's a question about rakudo star https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-10-09#i_15276314
07:18 stmuk Hmm I don't understand that question
07:22 teatime I'm assuming nqp-j is a build product?  and he doesn't realize that and thinks its presence in nqp/.gitignore is an error.
07:24 stmuk the JVM build in star confuses people mainly because it doesn't work
07:25 stmuk https://github.com/rakudo/star/blob/master/README#L32 is fairly strongly worded "don't do it"
07:25 stmuk maybe I should just remove the build option
07:27 jast --backend=jvm --PLEASEDONTWORK
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07:28 moritz --backend=jvm --i-know-what-im-doing-and-i-read-the-readme
07:28 jast side note, the next section has examples for building for JVM. people tend to copy&paste examples no questions asked
07:29 stmuk moritz: yes that's better since it allows a potential JVM fixer who has read the READMEs to help
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07:33 stmuk actually it looks like clouds is trying to use "brew" on macOS anyway and probably needs to contact the brew maintainers
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07:34 stmuk unless he has actually set --prefix to /usr/local/Cellar himself?
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07:47 El_Che is rakudo star is meant to be a user distribution, broken implementations have no place there
07:51 stmuk well I'd see it as a "entry level" distribution rather a "dummy" one and my hope in keeping brokeness like jvm and windows is that someone new (who is technical) sees it and is drawn into help
07:52 stmuk but maybe configure should warn or exit by default
07:53 El_Che leave it in the doc and maybe add a --not-supported-backends switch
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07:53 El_Che so a regular user never hit that?
07:53 stmuk I mean by that the source tarball any plain users probably be using binary distributions
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07:53 stmuk El_Che: yes that seems the best solution
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07:54 El_Che stmuk: how does the brew on macosx work for rakudo? is it precompiled?
07:54 stmuk El_Che: I've no idea and frankly don't care :) SEP
07:55 El_Che stmuk: it's your baby :)
07:55 stmuk brew isn't
07:55 El_Che stmuk: I'll have a  look soon
07:55 El_Che sure, but people won't blame brew for the bad experience
07:56 El_Che (for the record, it worked just fine when I tried it)
07:56 El_Che (I used that for a backup script)
07:57 stmuk if someone has a brew problem they should either use upstream (our source or binaries) or contact the brew maintainers
07:58 El_Che stmuk: that's not what I mean
07:58 El_Che stmuk: of course you won't support it
07:58 stmuk personally I'm more interested in pkgsrc which is cross platform and I use
07:58 stmuk I don't use brew
07:58 El_Che stmuk: but you want to know if it's broken or not. Or at least sane
07:59 stmuk if you use brew go ahead
07:59 El_Che stmuk: I use the mac laptop more as a glorified type writer than as a dev machine
07:59 El_Che brew was the first thing google returned
07:59 TEttinger do type writers have esc keys?
07:59 El_Che didn't even know pkgsrc was used on the mac
08:00 stmuk El_Che: I think it needs a case sensitive mount on the mac or did last time I looked!
08:01 El_Che brew?
08:01 El_Che it doesn't
08:01 stmuk pkgsrc
08:01 El_Che ah ok
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08:01 El_Che fs was updated to APFS during the high sierra install, I don't know if it's case sensitive or not nowadays
08:02 El_Che I'll have a look at pkgsrc
08:03 stmuk they won't have changed case behaviour I'm sure
08:03 stmuk "APFS accepts only valid UTF-8 encoded filenames for creation, and preserves both case and normalization of the filename on disk in all variants. APFS, like HFS+, is case-sensitive on iOS and is available in case-sensitive and case-insensitive variants on macOS, with case-insensitive being the default.
08:06 El_Che stmuk: things don't fall apart on the mac with case sensitive fs?
08:08 stmuk El_Che: historically yes I remember problems with head(1) and perl 5 lwp HEAD years back but I think many things are worked around by now at least for perl 5
08:10 stmuk having a virtual file mounted on a case sensitive mount point with limited things installed there is fine (although a bit of a PITA)
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09:03 HoboWithAShotgun uh, nice. the atom tools even render pod formatting right. with in the source code!
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09:30 Geth ¦ doc: 88ef45e36c | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 14 files
09:30 Geth ¦ doc: Document .Capture method
09:30 Geth ¦ doc:
09:30 Geth ¦ doc: Spec:        https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ca273503b6
09:30 Geth ¦ doc: Rakudo impl: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cd5864cfc1
09:30 Geth ¦ doc:              https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bad9fefdd7
09:30 Geth ¦ doc:              https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4ba12ff17c
09:30 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/88ef45e36c
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09:52 HoboWithAShotgun can i see somehwere a list of unicode symbols in core perl6?
09:53 HoboWithAShotgun you know like ∞
09:53 ilmari HoboWithAShotgun: https://docs.perl6.org/language/unicode_ascii
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09:56 * HoboWithAShotgun hands ilmari a voucer for one free hug
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10:26 Geth ¦ doc: 12ec0caafa | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod6
10:26 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/type/Signature
10:26 Geth ¦ doc: Document Signature.ACCEPTS
10:26 Geth ¦ doc:
10:26 Geth ¦ doc: Rakudo impl: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/27131ed8d1
10:26 Geth ¦ doc: Spec for non-capture/signature args:
10:26 Geth ¦ doc: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/48d5d39e2b
10:26 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/12ec0caafa
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10:51 Geth ¦ perl6.org/add-neovim-recommended-editor: cc774260a8 | (Patrick Spek)++ | source/whatever/index.html
10:51 Geth ¦ perl6.org/add-neovim-recommended-editor: Add Neovim as recommended editor.
10:51 Geth ¦ perl6.org/add-neovim-recommended-editor:
10:51 Geth ¦ perl6.org/add-neovim-recommended-editor: Fixes #84
10:51 Geth ¦ perl6.org/add-neovim-recommended-editor: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/cc774260a8
10:51 Geth ¦ perl6.org/add-neovim-recommended-editor: f04df671ca | (Patrick Spek)++ | source/whatever/index.html
10:51 Geth ¦ perl6.org/add-neovim-recommended-editor: Update link to vim-perl6
10:51 Geth ¦ perl6.org/add-neovim-recommended-editor: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/f04df671ca
10:53 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Tyil++ created pull request #86: Add neovim as a recommended editor
10:53 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/pull/86
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10:53 Geth ¦ perl6.org: cc774260a8 | (Patrick Spek)++ | source/whatever/index.html
10:53 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Add Neovim as recommended editor.
10:53 Geth ¦ perl6.org:
10:53 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Fixes #84
10:53 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/cc774260a8
10:53 Geth ¦ perl6.org: f04df671ca | (Patrick Spek)++ | source/whatever/index.html
10:53 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Update link to vim-perl6
10:53 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/f04df671ca
10:53 Geth ¦ perl6.org: e7be47c70d | (Patrick Spek)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/whatever/index.html
10:53 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Merge pull request #86 from perl6/add-neovim-recommended-editor
10:54 Geth ¦ perl6.org:
10:54 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Add neovim as a recommended editor
10:54 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/e7be47c70d
10:54 tyil AlexDaniel: added a link to neovim
10:55 tyil (I accidentally pushed my branch to the perl6.com upstream branch, sorry for the spam)
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11:21 samcv thx for the addition tyil. since editors are often asked questions
11:21 tyil .hug samcv
11:21 * huggable hugs samcv
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11:36 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Tyil++ created pull request #87: WIP: Update the bot list on community/irc.html
11:36 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/pull/87
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11:56 * HoboWithAShotgun posts the first contribution to github
11:56 HoboWithAShotgun https://goo.gl/gw25V4
11:57 HoboWithAShotgun i added snippets for unicode operators and greek letters to atom
11:57 HoboWithAShotgun also smiley faces :)
11:58 ilmari HoboWithAShotgun: instead of the individual **0 etc, would it be possible to make it turn **(any sequence of digits) into a sequence of superscript digits?
11:58 HoboWithAShotgun guess not, as that is just a json file
11:58 ilmari (disclaimer, I know nothing about atom and have no idea how flexible its "snippets" feature is)
11:59 ilmari and there's no wildcard/capture feature in the prefix/body fields, only literals?
11:59 pmurias is there a way to debug what (multi-) method a method call calls?
11:59 HoboWithAShotgun no idea
11:59 tyil HoboWithAShotgun++
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12:08 tyil HoboWithAShotgun: if I have spare time I might make something like that for vim
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12:08 HoboWithAShotgun m: my \x = 'a'; my \a =@= <a b>; x ∈ a
12:08 camelia rakudo-moar 27131e: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "∈" in expression "x ∈ a" in sink context (line 1)␤»
12:09 HoboWithAShotgun m: my \x = 'a'; my \a =@= <a b>; (x ∈ a).say
12:09 camelia rakudo-moar 27131e: OUTPUT: «True␤»
12:10 HoboWithAShotgun what's you guys stance on the rename issue? Looking at that code, it's not hard to argue that ain't perl anymore
12:11 tyil I'm fine with any name, as long as we settle
12:12 tyil I do like 6lang most of the proposed renames
12:12 tyil I do think a rename would make it easier to get a new crowd, since the moment I mention perl, the 5 or 6 is ignored and I get the regular rebuttal that perl is write only
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12:15 tyil then again, the name 'perl 6' uses perl because it has the same ideals and philosophy as perl 5
12:15 tyil not because its trying to mimick the syntax
12:15 bitrauser_ I don't have a problem with 'Perl 6' as the name, however the arguments for a change/alternative do make sense. From the suggestions so far I also like '6lang' the most.
12:17 bitrauser_ But I'm new to everything Perl6
12:17 lizmat fwiw, of all the proposals and possibilities, I'm still most in favor of "Rakudo Perl 6", or short "Rakudo"
12:18 mattr @tyil FYI there was a slashdot article yesterday on a video with Larry. I was a bit shocked at the negativity and people were repeating tired things about Perl 5. https://developers.slashdot.org/story/17/10/07/0259243/new-video-peeks-inside-the-head-of-perl-creator-larry-wall
12:18 tyil bitrauser_: we all were at some point :>
12:18 jast personally I think the time for a rename is long past
12:18 lizmat it allows people to talk about something new (aka Rakudo) whereas clearly indicating it's heritage (Perl) and that there's progress (6 > 5 )
12:18 tyil Ive seen the vid, mattr, but not read the article
12:18 tyil I'll cruise through it for a bit
12:18 tyil but I think I know what to expect :p
12:19 jast meaning, it might have made sense way earlier, but now everyone already knows it as Perl 6
12:19 lizmat also: with all the Perl 6 books coming out now, I think the ship for a more through name change has *really* sailed
12:19 mattr FWIW I posted on the thread as mattr noting Perl 6 is exciting and a totally different language. Personally I was uncomfortable with the idea of changing the name but if this really indicates the level of hatred/misunderstanding perhaps it would be good to at least call it P6 in public?
12:19 tyil mattr: the worst part about people using such 'arguments' against perl, is that most of them have never even read or written any perl, they just heard people shitting on it and started doing the same
12:20 mattr Thanks tyil, I agree and personally I like "Perl 6". Actually I have not had time to watch the vid yet :)
12:20 lizmat I think much of the hatred is of a lover scorned, we need to get the love back
12:21 mattr Maybe just indicative the /. has deteriorated and not actually what programmers think.
12:21 mattr Hi lizmat!
12:21 lizmat mattr o/
12:21 mattr Indeed ship sailed.
12:21 mattr By the way on a happier note I have a question.. :)
12:22 lizmat also: I think we have a better chance of being "the come back kid" rather than being one of the many new toys to be discarded
12:22 lizmat as soon as something perceived to be a better toy comes along
12:22 mattr yes
12:22 lizmat Perl 6 shouldn't be the latest JS framework (sorry pmurias :-)
12:22 mattr lol
12:23 mattr There is so much amazing stuff going on in the Perl 6 world I am hoping to learn enough to not drag people down with silly questions. Kudos
12:23 tyil there are no silly questions
12:23 tyil that just indicates we can make better docs :>
12:24 mattr Ah! Okay thanks. Question: How come in perl6 repl (mac) I get all these anon subs for say List.^methods ? Doesn't show up on camelia.
12:24 mattr say List.^methods (from-iterator from-slurpy from-slurpy-onearg from-slurpy-flat new to from sum fmt BIND-POS reification-target iterator sink STORE eager Capture FLATTENABLE_LIST FLATTENABLE_HASH CALL-ME pick roll reverse rotate combinations permutations join collate push append unshift prepend shift pop item of hyper race lazy flat lazy-if Bool Int Method+{<anon|140483628501664>}.new Numeric Str Method+{<anon|140483628501664>}.new M
12:24 mattr It looks like this.
12:24 evalable6 mattr, rakudo-moar 56eef6967: OUTPUT: «(exit code 1) ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/2LuYLWd7yi␤Two ter…»
12:24 evalable6 mattr, Full output: https://gist.github.com/edf21a872059e71e1baffef7c0af5d5f
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12:26 tyil that I know nothing about, but if someone has an explanation I'd gladly add it to the docs :p
12:27 mattr Thanks tyil. I noticed some other wierd bits about repl but if you don't expect it to perfectly mirror reality then it is not a major issue. :)
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12:28 tyil I dont know much about internals, I'm just a user, but I can document so the core devs can spend more time making 6lang/perl6/rakudo more awesome :3
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12:29 MasterDuke mattr: the repl has a bunch of known bugs, https://fail.rakudo.party/t/REPL, if you don't see it there already you could file a new one
12:30 mattr @MasterDuke thanks I didn't think of that! (My eyes keep getting dragged to the osx tag..)
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12:32 MasterDuke mattr: btw, do you mean you don't see those Method+{<anon|140483628501664>}.new things in camelia, but you do in the repl?
12:33 mattr Correct
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12:34 mattr although to be honest with :all adverb camelia ends with ...) so maybe there is more anon goodness somewhere...
12:35 MasterDuke yeah, i think you're just seeing a difference in when/where/how much the output get gut off
12:35 MasterDuke *cut off
12:35 mattr ok
12:35 mattr p6:say List.^methods(:all)
12:36 mattr p6: say List.^methods(:all)
12:36 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «(from-iterator from-slurpy from-slurpy-onearg from-slurpy-flat new to from sum fmt BIND-POS reification-target iterator sink STORE eager Capture FLATTENABLE_LIST FLATTENABLE_HASH CALL-ME pick roll reverse rotate combinations permutations join push append…»
12:36 mattr hm
12:36 mattr ohw ell
12:36 lizmat m: .say for List.^methods(:all)
12:36 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «from-iterator␤from-slurpy␤from-slurpy-onearg␤from-slurpy-flat␤new␤to␤from␤sum␤fmt␤BIND-POS␤reification-target␤iterator␤sink␤STORE␤eager␤Capture␤FLATTENABLE_LIST␤FLATTENABLE_HASH␤CALL-ME␤pick␤roll␤reverse␤rotate…»
12:36 lizmat m: .say for List.^methods(:local)
12:36 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «from-iterator␤from-slurpy␤from-slurpy-onearg␤from-slurpy-flat␤new␤to␤from␤sum␤fmt␤BIND-POS␤reification-target␤iterator␤sink␤STORE␤eager␤Capture␤FLATTENABLE_LIST␤FLATTENABLE_HASH␤CALL-ME␤pick␤roll␤reverse␤rotate…»
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12:47 atroxaper o/ #perl6
12:48 atroxaper Today I have no questions ^^
12:50 lizmat why?
12:50 lizmat :-)
12:51 moritz today, atroxaper is perfect! :-)
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12:52 mattr Thanks for your help, Starbucks will kick me out soon as it is 10pm here! :) g'nite o/
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12:54 atroxaper lizmat: almost finish my first module. Plan to upload it to SPAN this week. And do not have questions yet :-)
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12:54 lizmat atroxaper++  :-)
12:55 sumdoc How to count the number of times a letter appears in a word. Example: "blogger" contains "g" 2 times
12:55 atroxaper Facepalm... CPAN of course.
12:56 lizmat m: say +"blogger".comb.grep("g")
12:56 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «2␤»
12:57 sumdoc lizmat calling two methods. Is there another way of calling only a single method?
12:57 MasterDuke m: say "blogger".comb.Bag # if you want for all the letters
12:57 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «Bag(b, e, g(2), l, o, r)␤»
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13:00 lizmat m: say +"blogger".match("g", :g)   # much slower
13:00 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «2␤»
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13:01 atroxaper m: say +'blogger'.indices('g')
13:01 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «2␤»
13:03 lizmat ahh..  yup, forgot all about that  :-)
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13:05 lizmat and I actually implemented that  :-)
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13:07 atroxaper lizmat: As you say, Kudos :-)
13:09 sumdoc This is a code I implemented in Perl 6. It counts the number of elements upto 99999 which contain atleast two "7"
13:09 sumdoc sub count($num) {     my @lst;     for 0..$num -> $v {         if Str($v).comb.grep("7")==2 {             @lst.push($v)           }      }     say  @lst.elems   }   count(99999)
13:09 sumdoc This was much slower than this python version
13:09 sumdoc def count(num):     lst=[]     for i in range(num):         if str(i).count("7")==2:             lst.append(i)     return len(lst)  print(count(99999))
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13:12 atroxaper sumdoc: not 'at least' but 'equals' 2
13:13 lizmat m: say + ^100000 .grep( *.indices("7") == 2 )
13:13 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «7290␤»
13:13 lizmat sumdoc: ^^ is that what you're looking for ?
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13:17 moritz m: say + ^100000 .grep( *.indices("7") == 2 ); say now - INIT now
13:17 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «7290␤3.56210051␤»
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13:17 moritz m: say + ^100000 .grep( { .indices("7") == 2 } ); say now - INIT now
13:17 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «7290␤3.52918619␤»
13:18 lizmat moritz: looks to me within noise
13:20 sumdoc atroxaper Yeah u right "equals"==2
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13:25 atroxaper m: my $amount = 0; for ^100000 { if .indices("7") == 2 {$amount++} }; say $amount; say now - INIT now; # whithout result Seq is faster
13:25 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «7290␤4.19151844␤»
13:25 atroxaper lol. On my mac it is faster :)
13:26 * lizmat tries
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13:28 lizmat m: my int $amount; $amount++ if .indices("7") == 2 for ^100000; say $amount; say now - INIT now
13:29 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «7290␤3.3347214␤»
13:30 atroxaper I would say, grep of Seq works very good, then.
13:31 MasterDuke_ lizmat: looks like there more exclusive time spent in the proto for Str's indices than the actual multi it ends up in
13:32 lizmat m: my int $amount; $amount++ if .Str.indices("7") == 2 for ^100000; say $amount; say now - INIT now   # wow
13:32 camelia rakudo-moar 56eef6: OUTPUT: «7290␤0.1889341␤»
13:32 lizmat yup
13:32 MasterDuke_ and neither are jitted
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13:34 atroxaper Cool!
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13:39 sumdoc lizmat moritz Yeah I saw your solution. But it was done similarly using "for loops" in both languages and found rakudo to be slower.
13:39 sumdoc Here it is in more cleaner form http://perl6.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Examples.html
13:40 pmurias re rename debate, there is an attempt to rename haskell-on-the-JVM as Eta
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13:43 ilmari what's it currently called?
13:43 jast Haskell on the JVM, I think :)
13:43 ilmari not jaskell?
13:43 pmurias they haskell on the JVM is called Eta
13:43 atroxaper sumdoc: did you tried 'if +Str($v).indices("7") == 2' ?
13:43 pmurias s/they/
13:44 perlpilot There's also Frege
13:44 pmurias and the docs try to pretend it's not Haskell
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13:46 jast Eta sounds really easy to search for. I mean it's not like there's a common acronym with the same letters.
13:47 atroxaper sumdoc: I hope you measure time not by OS but in code.
13:47 stmuk ETA is the former Basque terrorist group!
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14:09 lizmat sumdoc: also: to make the code completely equivalent, you should probably use .indices instead of .comb.grep  and you should have "return @lst.elems" as the last statement of sub count, and then have "print count(99999)"
14:10 lizmat re being slower: we're working on that.  Having said that, completely making the code equivalent, is ignoring the strengths of Perl 6
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14:36 sumdoc lizmat OK let me see Thanks
14:37 sumdoc izmat Yeah it is lot faster than before
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14:50 sumdoc Updated example http://perl6.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Examples.html
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14:54 dzove855 /54*/54
14:55 dzove855 :)
14:59 lizmat I would probably replace line 2 .. 7 by: my @lst = (0 .. $num).grep( *.Str.indices("7") == 2 );
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15:47 * skids reaches the end of his patience wick with latest new emacs defaults/behaviors
15:47 traxex_ joined #perl6
15:47 skids Dumbasses always trying to integrate the kill-ring and window syatems buffers.  Grrr.
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16:32 HoboWithAShotgun m: 「foo」
16:32 camelia rakudo-moar 484f98: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of constant string "foo" in sink context (line 1)␤»
16:34 HoboWithAShotgun ugh, i did this on the command line and got a file not found error...
16:34 HoboWithAShotgun i forgot the -e ^^
16:34 AlexDaniel_ skids: I'm confused. How would you move stuff around otherwise?
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17:02 buggable New CPAN upload: App-Mi6-0.0.6.tar.gz by SKAJI https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/S/SK/SKAJI/Perl6/App-Mi6-0.0.6.tar.gz
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17:17 [Coke] .
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17:29 HoboWithAShotgun m: my \Δφ = 𝑒; Δφ.say
17:29 camelia rakudo-moar 484f98: OUTPUT: «2.71828182845905␤»
17:29 HoboWithAShotgun heh
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17:42 buggable New CPAN upload: App-Mi6-0.0.7.tar.gz by SKAJI https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/S/SK/SKAJI/Perl6/App-Mi6-0.0.7.tar.gz
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17:58 Xliff According to zef, I have 2 versions of a module installed. How do I delete the old copy?
17:58 timotimo there's an uninstall command, it should take the same string as it outputs in the list
17:58 Xliff timotimo++
17:59 ryn1x joined #perl6
18:00 Xliff That's weird. Why did it not uninstall those modules when updating?
18:00 mr-foobar joined #perl6
18:00 gfldex Xliff: some ditro might want the old version for packaging
18:00 timotimo i'm not sure that answer goes with that question
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18:22 Xliff gfldex: I'm with timotimo. If distros want an older version, they can use the ":ver" specifier, right?
18:22 Xliff So why is it, that when a newer version is install, the old version is still there?
18:22 timotimo um, yeah, but that's different from "why doesn't zef delete stuff when it installs stuff with everything-except-ver being the same?"
18:22 gfldex for Perl 6 they can
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18:23 Xliff Well, that was the better wording, timotimo
18:23 timotimo i'd prefer there to be a "automatic cleanup" subcommand and maybe a little note at the end of installation if packages you've installed superseded other packages
18:24 Xliff Yeah, that would be good.
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19:52 weabot What's a good way to wait for a variably to change without busy waiting?
19:52 weabot s/variably/variable
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19:53 moritz you can put it in a Proxy
19:53 perlpilot weabot: why are you waiting for it to change?  what changes it?
19:54 weabot another thread
19:54 MasterDuke eco: OO::Monitors
19:54 buggable MasterDuke, OO::Monitors 'Objects with mutual exclusion and condition variables': https://github.com/jnthn/oo-monitors
19:54 MasterDuke weabot: ^^^ maybe
19:54 * moritz withdraws his suggestion of using a proxy
19:55 weabot I mean I could send a message over a channel
19:55 weabot that's not very reliable though
19:55 perlpilot moritz: that was the first thing I thought of too  :)
19:56 moritz weabot: or a Promise
19:56 moritz also, what's unreliable bout a channel?
19:57 weabot hmm
20:01 cdg joined #perl6
20:01 timotimo have the variable be a supply that emits changed values (and the current value once at the start)?
20:01 timotimo so other code can subscribe to updates
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20:10 Geth ¦ perl6-most-wanted: cbea87ab7f | timo++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | most-wanted/modules.md
20:10 Geth ¦ perl6-most-wanted: point out cro as a http2 client and server impl
20:10 Geth ¦ perl6-most-wanted: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-most-wanted/commit/cbea87ab7f
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20:12 timotimo perhaps i should have removed the entry completely instead?
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20:48 lizmat and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/10/09/2017-41-the-case-for-empathy/
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20:57 teatime "Hashes do not print in the order they are created.  it is a Perl 6 thing."  heh
20:59 timotimo oh! with utf8-c8 encoding for source files we can *totally* *finally* have =finish (or whatever) have binary data in it!
21:03 timotimo gfldex: i don't see a !! in the first code block on your blog post? :(
21:04 timotimo oh, it's in the source, it's just not being shown because ... overflow: hidden i guess?
21:04 HoboWithAShotgun can i delegate to static methods?
21:05 HoboWithAShotgun this doesnt work: has $x = Log::Any handles (log debug info); neither does use Log::Any handles (log debug info);
21:05 gfldex timotimo: there is not much I can do about wordpress
21:05 timotimo HoboWithAShotgun: for one it has to be < > rather than ( ) i think
21:06 HoboWithAShotgun oh i had that, same error
21:07 timotimo OK
21:07 rba joined #perl6
21:07 timotimo so how are log, debug, and info implemented?
21:08 HoboWithAShotgun no idea. they are class methods as per documentation
21:09 HoboWithAShotgun and i want a logging role, and therein delegate methods tho those of Log::Any
21:10 timotimo m: class LogAny { method debug(LogAny:U:, $text) { say "debuglogged $text" } }; class TestClass { has LogAny $.logany handles <debug> }; TestClass.new.debug("hi")
21:10 camelia rakudo-moar 484f98: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed parameter␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3class LogAny { method debug(LogAny:U:7⏏5, $text) { say "debuglogged $text" } }; ␤»
21:10 timotimo m: class LogAny { method debug(LogAny:U: $text) { say "debuglogged $text" } }; class TestClass { has LogAny $.logany handles <debug> }; TestClass.new.debug("hi")
21:10 camelia rakudo-moar 484f98: OUTPUT: «debuglogged hi␤»
21:11 timotimo so that way it seems to wor
21:11 HoboWithAShotgun yeah just realized that too
21:13 tony-o .
21:13 yoleaux 8 Oct 2017 16:15Z <jdv79> tony-o: HTML::Parser::XML - parse - the main loop never ends on latest rakudo
21:13 timotimo gfldex: is it better on your end? is it just my fonts? when i reduce the zoom factor it stays the same. is reformatting the code an option?
21:13 timotimo ohai tony-o
21:13 tony-o hey hey
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21:15 tony-o jdv79: i'll take a look, it wasn't the most efficient but i needed it to write the web scraper module (my intro to p6 module)
21:16 gfldex timotimo: should be a bit better now. There is link to a gist at the end.
21:17 timotimo there indeed is!
21:17 timotimo thanks
21:17 ryn1x joined #perl6
21:18 timotimo tony-o: http::server::logger, http::server::threaded, and html::parser::xml all use "rakudobrew build panda" in their travis configs, you may want to change that to build zef :)  (and use zef instead of panda for installation, of course)
21:18 gfldex I wanted to show a reasonable exaple for subclassing a grammar for quite some time.
21:18 timotimo very cool, gfldex
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21:24 tony-o timotimo++ thank you
21:28 timotimo tony-o: also, upload to cpan, yada yada :) :)
21:28 perlpilot timotimo: btw, congrats on the funding of your grant!
21:29 timotimo thank you!
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22:16 AlexDaniel_ m: dd «ree‘’ve‘’‘’t‘’»
22:16 camelia rakudo-moar 484f98: OUTPUT: «("ree", IntStr.new(0, ""), "ve", IntStr.new(0, ""), IntStr.new(0, ""), "t", IntStr.new(0, ""))␤»
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22:18 timotimo oh, tony-o, i remember what i wanted to tell you earlier this week: the readme of perl6-flow needs spaces after the # marks for markdown to properly parse the headers
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23:29 Herby_ o/
23:31 AlexDaniel_ \o
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23:36 Herby_ Is the Learning Perl 6 book still due to come out?  Looks like the book's website hasn't been updated since July
23:39 Herby_ m: rand(10)
23:39 camelia rakudo-moar e11f4e: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unsupported use of rand(N); in Perl 6 please use N.rand for Num or (^N).pick for Int result␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3rand7⏏5(10)␤»
23:40 Herby_ I was looking at simple examples of generating random numbers last night.  Is the "(Num) method rand" on this doc page no longer right, or am I using it wrong?
23:40 Herby_ https://docs.perl6.org/routine/rand
23:41 Herby_ the last method on that page
23:41 geekosaur I think it's right insofar as it's implemented but the 'detect p5 programmers' goop is getting in the way
23:41 geekosaur there's growing sentiment for either removing said goop or at least hiding it behind a pragma
23:42 Herby_ gotcha
23:42 Herby_ thanks
23:43 geekosaur (as a long-time p5 programmer I can say the goop never catches any of my leaky p5-isms; they're too subtle)
23:44 geekosaur unless I'm half asleep, but for that I'd need more than just p5 goop, I'd also need haskell and shell among others :)
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23:51 timotimo i recently wrote a little bit of perl5 and got a very unhelpful error message when i forgot to put parens after an if statement
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23:56 Xliff I find that after working in Perl6, I rather would prefer never to work in P5 again.
23:56 Xliff But that's just me.
23:58 timotimo well, there's still things written in perl5 that work "for us"
23:58 timotimo in that case it was modules.perl6.org
23:59 timotimo writing perl5 when you only know 6 and can look at the code around you ... yeah, that can cause problems :)

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