| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:05 |
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| 00:22 |
pilne |
am i wrong in my feeling that perl6 is probably the easiest way to code if you want/must glue together other languages due to grammars? |
| 00:23 |
pilne |
like... if i don't care right now about performance, but for some reason i want to/need to mix say... c, ruby, python, and perl5 code.... |
| 00:23 |
pilne |
perl6 would probably be the most natural way to do that (as compared to anything else, except maybe doing it "bottom up" with c?) |
| 00:23 |
pilne |
like if perl5 is glue, perl6 is superglue :D |
| 00:24 |
raschipi |
I don't see the relation to Grammars, though... |
| 00:25 |
pilne |
aren't grammars what allow the interop to be kept perl6 based? |
| 00:25 |
pilne |
in terms of syntax? or is my brain finally just melting down a little? |
| 00:26 |
raschipi |
No, it's the foreign function interface |
| 00:27 |
raschipi |
i.e. NativeCall |
| 00:27 |
raschipi |
Rakudo uses NativeCall to call into other languages. |
| 00:28 |
raschipi |
But Perl6 was built from the start to be able to do these things, so it's not just NativeCall. |
| 00:28 |
pilne |
fair enough |
| 00:29 |
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| 01:19 |
Geth |
¦ doc: f7eefbd890 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 3 files |
| 01:19 |
Geth |
¦ doc: Document behaviour with degenerate cue intevals |
| 01:19 |
Geth |
¦ doc: |
| 01:19 |
Geth |
¦ doc: - Could use less stilted language |
| 01:19 |
Geth |
¦ doc: |
| 01:19 |
Geth |
¦ doc: Impl: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/df01ad97e5 |
| 01:19 |
Geth |
¦ doc: Spec: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/baa8ccbb30 |
| 01:19 |
Geth |
¦ doc: Extra tests: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/031f8cf77c |
| 01:19 |
Geth |
¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f7eefbd890 |
| 01:22 |
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| 01:23 |
raschipi |
u: — |
| 01:23 |
unicodable6 |
raschipi, U+2014 EM DASH [Pd] (—) |
| 01:30 |
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| 01:54 |
Herby_ |
o/ |
| 01:55 |
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| 01:55 |
|
Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! |
| 01:56 |
HoboWithAShotgun |
m: my %h = gather { take p => 1) }; %h.say |
| 01:56 |
camelia |
rakudo-moar 4c3700729: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>Missing blockat <tmp>:1------> 3my %h = gather { take p => 17⏏5) }; %h.say expecting any of: postfix statement end statement modifier statement …» |
| 01:56 |
HoboWithAShotgun |
m: my %h = gather { take p => 1 }; %h.say |
| 01:56 |
camelia |
rakudo-moar 4c3700729: OUTPUT: «Unexpected named argument 'p' passed in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1» |
| 01:56 |
HoboWithAShotgun |
bummer |
| 01:56 |
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| 01:58 |
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| 01:58 |
Zoffix |
HoboWithAShotgun: you're passing it as named arg to &take. Pass it as a positional instead |
| 01:58 |
Zoffix |
m: my %h = gather { take "p" => 1 }; %h.say |
| 01:58 |
camelia |
rakudo-moar 4c3700729: OUTPUT: «{p => 1}» |
| 01:59 |
Zoffix |
m: my %h = gather { take "p" => 1; take :42z.Pair; :100y.take }; %h.say |
| 01:59 |
camelia |
rakudo-moar 4c3700729: OUTPUT: «{p => 1, y => 100, z => 42}» |
| 01:59 |
Zoffix |
I think it's described in detail here: https://docs.perl6.org/language/traps#Named_Parameters |
| 02:00 |
* Zoffix |
.put-into: $bed |
| 02:00 |
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| 02:02 |
HoboWithAShotgun |
m: say (y => 1) == ('y' => 1) |
| 02:02 |
camelia |
rakudo-moar 4c3700729: OUTPUT: «Cannot resolve caller Numeric(Pair: ); none of these signatures match: (Mu:U \v: *%_) in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1» |
| 02:04 |
HoboWithAShotgun |
good night |
| 02:04 |
HoboWithAShotgun |
me too |
| 02:06 |
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| 02:09 |
ugexe |
m: my %h = gather { take $(:p(1)) }; %h.say |
| 02:09 |
camelia |
rakudo-moar 4c3700729: OUTPUT: «{p => 1}» |
| 02:13 |
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| 02:31 |
Herby_ |
question |
| 02:31 |
Herby_ |
disclaimer: I'm new to Linux |
| 02:31 |
Herby_ |
in the terminal, if I type "zef", i get the options for zef |
| 02:31 |
Herby_ |
if I type "sudo zef", it says command not found |
| 02:32 |
Herby_ |
what gives |
| 02:36 |
raschipi |
do you have sudo installed? |
| 02:36 |
Herby_ |
yep |
| 02:36 |
geekosaur |
root often has a restricted $PATH |
| 02:37 |
Herby_ |
Should I need sudo to: zef install HTTP::UserAgent ? |
| 02:37 |
raschipi |
Yep, sudo will clean up the environment before running commands. |
| 02:37 |
geekosaur |
sudo is usually configured to clean its environment and install a sanitized $PATH by default; see /etc/sudoers and the doucmenttion thereto |
| 02:37 |
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| 02:38 |
raschipi |
And it's better to leave it that way. Instead use the complete path to the zef executable. |
| 02:38 |
Herby_ |
hmmm |
| 02:39 |
geekosaur |
and you should only need to sudo if you have rakudo installed in a system directory. be cautious in that case if it got there by a package manager |
| 02:39 |
Herby_ |
i'm clueless linux rookie... i used checkinstall to install rakudo |
| 02:40 |
raschipi |
can you give us the result of `which perl6`? |
| 02:41 |
Herby_ |
'/home/chrx/rakudo/rakudo-star-2017.07/install/bin//perl6 |
| 02:42 |
raschipi |
hum, doesn't seem like you'd need to use sudo to install modules |
| 02:42 |
Herby_ |
when I try: zef install HTTP::UserAgent |
| 02:42 |
Herby_ |
I get a wordy error, but the gist is "permission denied" |
| 02:43 |
Herby_ |
Failed to open file /home/chrx/.zef/store/MANIFEST.zef: Permission denied |
| 02:44 |
geekosaur |
sounds like you used sudo a previous time and now you have root-owned files under $HOME |
| 02:44 |
Herby_ |
definitely possible... |
| 02:45 |
raschipi |
yeah, I would do `chown -R chrx:chrx /home/chrx/.zef`? |
| 02:45 |
geekosaur |
(this might even break zef, I think it assumes something installed under $HOME is guaranteed writable and it can re-precomp or etc.) |
| 02:45 |
geekosaur |
or maybe CURLI makes the assumption |
| 02:45 |
geekosaur |
the chown needs to be done via sudo though |
| 02:45 |
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| 02:46 |
raschipi |
right, you'll need sudo |
| 02:46 |
Herby_ |
so I should: sudo chown -R chrx:chrx /home/chrx/.zef |
| 02:46 |
geekosaur |
yes |
| 02:47 |
raschipi |
have a look at this: https://explainshell.com/explain?cmd=sudo+chown+-R+chrx%3Achrx+%2Fhome%2Fchrx%2F.zef |
| 02:50 |
Herby_ |
progress. got further in the install then got this: CompUnit::Repository install target is not writeable/installable: /home/chrx/auto |
| 02:50 |
Herby_ |
Need a valid installation target to continue |
| 02:50 |
geekosaur |
same issue, sounds like. but why is zef creating a dir there? |
| 02:50 |
raschipi |
you have the same problem on that path probably |
| 02:54 |
raschipi |
Anyway, it should be safe to execute the same command in that path: `sudo chown -R chrx:chrx /home/chrx/auto` |
| 02:55 |
Herby_ |
chown: cannot access '/home/chrx/auto': No such file or directory |
| 02:55 |
raschipi |
try `mkdir ~/auto` |
| 02:56 |
geekosaur |
now I think something else is wrong |
| 02:56 |
geekosaur |
like, I didn't think it should be writing there to begin with. wrong path in zef's CUR somehow? |
| 02:57 |
geekosaur |
or maybe it's a bug in the package |
| 02:57 |
geekosaur |
I would be rather annoyed if installing a random package started putting stuff in random dirs outside the CUR playground |
| 02:57 |
geekosaur |
much as I would be if apt-get dropped something in $HOME (a debian no-no) |
| 03:02 |
Herby_ |
i think my install is all jacked |
| 03:02 |
Herby_ |
I was able to install http::useragent |
| 03:03 |
Herby_ |
but when I run a simple script |
| 03:03 |
Herby_ |
Could not find HTTP::UserAgent at line 2 in: |
| 03:03 |
Herby_ |
/home/chrx/.perl6 |
| 03:03 |
Herby_ |
/home/chrx/rakudo/rakudo-star-2017.07/install/share/perl6/site |
| 03:03 |
Herby_ |
/home/chrx/rakudo/rakudo-star-2017.07/install/share/perl6/vendor |
| 03:03 |
Herby_ |
/home/chrx/rakudo/rakudo-star-2017.07/install/share/perl6 |
| 03:03 |
Herby_ |
CompUnit::Repository::AbsolutePath<77908064> |
| 03:03 |
Herby_ |
CompUnit::Repository::NQP<59934952> |
| 03:03 |
Herby_ |
CompUnit::Repository::Perl5<59934992> |
| 03:05 |
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| 03:13 |
ugexe |
its all configurable. https://github.com/ugexe/zef/blob/master/resources/config.json |
| 03:15 |
HoboWithAShotgun |
Color::Named - Because colors are people too. Do you think that could be somehow politically incorrect? i'm super bad at judging such things |
| 03:16 |
raschipi |
One thing that comes to my mind is that there are people that don't have names. |
| 03:17 |
HoboWithAShotgun |
i mean it as a reference to "aliens are people too" |
| 03:17 |
HoboWithAShotgun |
meh, better not before somebody calls me racist or something |
| 03:20 |
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| 03:27 |
geekosaur |
its possible. 'colored' was at one point a racial epithet |
| 03:27 |
geekosaur |
in the US at least |
| 03:29 |
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| 04:31 |
AlexDaniel` |
.seen azawawi |
| 04:31 |
yoleaux |
I saw azawawi 12 Oct 2017 03:47Z in #perl6: <azawawi> https://github.com/Microsoft/language-server-protocol/blob/master/protocol.md # Seems like the direction Atom is taking with future language integrations (autocomplete, find definitions, warning/error diagnostics, ..etc) |
| 04:34 |
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| 06:07 |
AlexDaniel` |
so Imlib2 is too bitrotten, MagickWand is too incomplete, and Image::PNG::Portable is too slow |
| 06:10 |
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| 06:10 |
AlexDaniel` |
maybe Image::Magick:from<Perl5> ? Hmm |
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| 07:10 |
jonas1 |
http://test.rg.avisita.com/admin/agenda/ |
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| 07:41 |
wander |
Can we add a precedence info of proto-regexes? |
| 07:41 |
moritz |
wander: are you talking about grammars in general? or the Perl 6 grammar in Rakudo? |
| 07:42 |
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| 07:42 |
wander_ |
rule expression:sym<+> (precedence => 1) { <expression>+ % <sym>}; rule expression:sym<*> (precedence => 0) { <expression>+ % <sym>}; |
| 07:42 |
wander_ |
something like these |
| 07:43 |
moritz |
no |
| 07:43 |
wander_ |
in Rakudo |
| 07:43 |
moritz |
there' no operator precedence parser built into the proto mechanism |
| 07:44 |
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| 07:45 |
wander_ |
since I have several operators to handle, I try to find some method to deal with them in similar form |
| 07:45 |
moritz |
a good OPP supports quite some features (precedence, different operator types (infix, prefix, postfix, circumfix), different associativies, including non-associative operators) |
| 07:45 |
moritz |
and we haven't found a good way yet to structure the API for one |
| 07:46 |
moritz |
this is something that could be well experimented with in a module |
| 07:47 |
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wander_ |
sadly |
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| 09:05 |
robertle |
in perl6 (as oppsosed to perl5), can I create circular structures and they get garbage collected? or do I need to do some sort of reference weakening? |
| 09:06 |
jnthn |
Yeah, circular structures are no problem |
| 09:06 |
jnthn |
GC is based on reachability |
| 09:07 |
robertle |
cool, thanks! |
| 09:08 |
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| 09:21 |
Geth |
¦ ecosystem: 16a8a777be | (Alexey Melezhik)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list |
| 09:21 |
Geth |
¦ ecosystem: Move Sparrowdo::RemoteFile to CPAN |
| 09:21 |
Geth |
¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/16a8a777be |
| 09:22 |
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| 09:31 |
buggable |
New CPAN upload: Sparrowdo-RemoteFile-0.0.1.tar.gz by MELEZHIK https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/M/ME/MELEZHIK/Perl6/Sparrowdo-RemoteFile-0.0.1.tar.gz |
| 09:32 |
melezhik |
buggable |
| 09:33 |
melezhik |
sorry, last line has been printed occassionally , never mind it :)) |
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| 09:47 |
steeznson |
what would be a good beginners project for someone interested in learning Perl 6's unique functionality? I've written applications in Java and C# before |
| 09:47 |
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| 09:59 |
ufobat |
doing something with grammars? |
| 10:01 |
steeznson |
i |
| 10:02 |
ufobat |
and i am allways looking for ppl to contribute to Bailador ;) |
| 10:02 |
steeznson |
*i'm interested in using unicode co-extensively with functions and exploring rationals |
| 10:02 |
sena_kun |
parsing, concurrency, scripting as a good points to start... Basically, I'd better go with a software you want/need, not the one Perl 6 makes(does it?) you to write, I guess. |
| 10:03 |
steeznson |
thanks, i'll mull it over. I'm taking more of an academic interest in perl for a grad school project. |
| 10:07 |
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| 10:07 |
vijayanat |
say hello |
| 10:08 |
sena_kun |
m: say "Hello"; |
| 10:08 |
camelia |
rakudo-moar 2580a0a6f: OUTPUT: «Hello» |
| 10:10 |
sena_kun |
oh, new hyper/race is merged. \0/ jnthn++ |
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| 12:08 |
sproctor |
So I've found a YAML parser that doesn't explode when I give it a swagger file. Next up cro include and I've got all I need (I think) to make a CRO swagger plugin. :D |
| 12:09 |
sproctor |
(Sorry OpenAPI) |
| 12:09 |
jnthn |
Nice |
| 12:09 |
jnthn |
sproctor: By "cro include" do you mean the include feature in the router? |
| 12:09 |
sproctor |
That's the bunny yes. |
| 12:09 |
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| 12:10 |
jnthn |
Nice timing, I implemneted it last weekend :) |
| 12:11 |
sproctor |
Cool. I've been thinking about it for a while. The idea being you should be able to decorate the OpenAPi with OperationId's that match controller methods and the just do an include $plugin->parse_file( "path/to/file" ) |
| 12:12 |
sproctor |
It'll generate all the routes and also validation sub types based on the spec. So you just need to create the controllers... That's my thinking anyway. |
| 12:12 |
sproctor |
Similar to the Mojo plugin. |
| 12:13 |
sproctor |
I prefer that way of working to the auto generation thing in most cases. As it means you can update your spec file later and not have to regenerate all your system. Anyway I'll keep an eye on things and play about with this over the weekend. |
| 12:14 |
sproctor |
(Note to self. Finish slides for LPW) |
| 12:15 |
DrForr |
Ack, I have to finish my abstract :/ |
| 12:15 |
yoleaux |
16 Oct 2017 09:39Z <HoboWithAShotgun> DrForr: On the site for Perl6Tidy (https://github.com/drforr/perl6-Perl6-Tidy) you claim it could be installed by zef, but it isn't in the eco system (https://modules.perl6.org/search/?q=tidy). |
| 12:18 |
DrForr |
.tell HoboWithAShotgun I'll probably add it over the weekend. I was thinking it should do something less trivial than bracing, but braces are good enough for now, I suppose. |
| 12:18 |
yoleaux |
DrForr: I'll pass your message to HoboWithAShotgun. |
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[Coke]_ |
(JSON::Fast) did you look at any of the other JSON modules, btw? |
| 13:35 |
timotimo |
is there something wrong with JSON::Fast? |
| 13:35 |
timotimo |
i'll probably merge the "allow sorting hashes by key" thing soon |
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* [Coke] |
again finds the irc logs needing a verrrry wide display to be read. |
| 13:48 |
jdv79 |
the web version? sometimes it doesn't fit. looks like an html fail. |
| 13:48 |
timotimo |
it's pretty bad, yeah |
| 13:50 |
raschipi |
What about the raw text version in the colabti.org logs? |
| 13:54 |
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| 14:11 |
buggable |
New CPAN upload: Sparrowdo-RemoteFile-0.0.2.tar.gz by MELEZHIK https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/M/ME/MELEZHIK/Perl6/Sparrowdo-RemoteFile-0.0.2.tar.gz |
| 14:14 |
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| 14:15 |
Geth |
¦ ecosystem: c2fda9a172 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list |
| 14:15 |
Geth |
¦ ecosystem: Add Reminders.pm6 to ecosystem |
| 14:15 |
Geth |
¦ ecosystem: |
| 14:15 |
Geth |
¦ ecosystem: "Reminders: Class for managing reminders about task and events" |
| 14:15 |
Geth |
¦ ecosystem: |
| 14:15 |
Geth |
¦ ecosystem: See: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Reminders |
| 14:15 |
Geth |
¦ ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/c2fda9a172 |
| 14:21 |
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| 14:48 |
[Coke] |
zoffix, testing out a modified update-rakudo that reinstalls all my modules. |
| 14:48 |
[Coke] |
(might be too much, may end up with just adding a bunch of installs of the stuff I know I use daily so that experimental stuff isn't resurrected.) |
| 14:49 |
timotimo |
you're only reinstalling stuff to get the tests to run again, right? |
| 14:50 |
timotimo |
or to get newer versions i guess |
| 14:51 |
[Coke] |
reinstalling because my normal upgrade process wipes out all the installed modules. |
| 14:51 |
timotimo |
ah ok |
| 14:55 |
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[Coke] |
is HyperIterable on nom yet, or still in a branch? |
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| 15:14 |
timotimo |
the hyper work has landed in nom |
| 15:15 |
timotimo |
not sure if HyperIterable is an actaul thing |
| 15:15 |
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| 15:16 |
ilmari |
no, that got _deleted_ |
| 15:17 |
ilmari |
it's HyperSeq now |
| 15:18 |
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| 15:18 |
ilmari |
(and RaceSeq) |
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| 15:23 |
jnthn |
HyperIterable was part of the old internals of the now-discarded hyper/race implementation |
| 15:23 |
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| 15:23 |
jnthn |
Well, the original idea was to make those "internals" API |
| 15:24 |
jnthn |
But (a) the design didn't work so well, and (b) the new one seems to work better, but I'd like freedom to change it in the future |
| 15:24 |
[Coke] |
HyperIterable is in the docs, failing an example build. |
| 15:24 |
[Coke] |
line 150, doc/Type/Any.pod6 |
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| 15:26 |
timotimo |
ah, because there's a map method on HyperIterable |
| 15:28 |
jnthn |
Huh, that sounds confused |
| 15:30 |
[Coke] |
https://docs.perl6.org/type/Any#method_map |
| 15:33 |
jnthn |
oh, right |
| 15:33 |
jnthn |
No, it ain't going to work that way any more |
| 15:33 |
jnthn |
The map method is on HyperSeq and RaceSeq now |
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haxmeister |
https://paste.pound-python.org/show/5qzOIR8EFv00Kj0qtaEg/ |
| 16:48 |
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| 16:49 |
timotimo |
haxmeister: can you debug PowerShell? |
| 16:50 |
timotimo |
in this case powershell syntax |
| 16:51 |
haxmeister |
not much of a power user on windows |
| 16:51 |
haxmeister |
anything specific I might look at? |
| 16:52 |
timotimo |
the thing that's exploding here is the sha256 implementation that uses the powershell so it doesn't have to pull in any dlls or slow perl6 code |
| 16:52 |
timotimo |
all of this is just for downloading and verifying the dlls we have on the gtk-dlls.p6c.org site |
| 16:53 |
timotimo |
you can manually git clone the gtk simple source repository, put the DLLs into the resources/ folder (and check the sha256 signatures manually) and then just throw out the Build.pm file |
| 16:53 |
timotimo |
then "zef install ." inside the code directory |
| 16:53 |
haxmeister |
kk |
| 17:02 |
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| 17:04 |
ugexe |
zef install . --/build |
| 17:04 |
timotimo |
oh i did not know about that |
| 17:04 |
timotimo |
nice. |
| 17:04 |
ilmari |
--/? |
| 17:05 |
timotimo |
maybe i should reach out to the twittersphere and find somebody to fix the sha256 thing |
| 17:05 |
ugexe |
false |
| 17:05 |
ugexe |
--/ = Bool::False, -- = Bool::True (when applied to a boolean type anyway) |
| 17:06 |
ilmari |
what happened to the traditional --foo/--no-foo? |
| 17:06 |
ugexe |
personally i don't like that convention, which means writing both params in your &MAIN |
| 17:07 |
ugexe |
sub MAIN(Bool:D :$foo, Bool:D, :$no-foo) { } |
| 17:07 |
ilmari |
why couldn't --no-foo set Bool:D :$foo to False? |
| 17:08 |
ugexe |
because then MAIN is parsing its params fairly different than other subs |
| 17:08 |
ugexe |
what happens if i have an actual :$no-foo for instance |
| 17:11 |
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| 17:14 |
b2gills |
--no-foo could be added as an option that you can turn on |
| 17:15 |
ugexe |
well sure, but any GetOpt thing could technically be added as an option. |
| 17:22 |
haxmeister |
timotimo: ok I cloned gtk-simple.. now what DLLs do I need to move, and where is this resources folder? |
| 17:22 |
timotimo |
you'll find all the URLs in Build.pm |
| 17:22 |
timotimo |
https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/blob/master/Build.pm |
| 17:23 |
timotimo |
it turns out gtk-simple's Build.pm will try to load libgtk-3-0.dll and if it succeeds won't try to download anything or verify hashes |
| 17:23 |
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haxmeister |
man that's kind of a nuisance for windows users |
| 17:39 |
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| 17:39 |
nine |
Yep, it'll be good when Build.pm is finally gone |
| 17:41 |
timotimo |
weird. it looks like all you have to do to get a hash is Get-FileHash /foo/bar -Algorithm SHA256 | select Hash | Format-List |
| 17:41 |
timotimo |
why is our code so much longer? |
| 17:41 |
timotimo |
function get-sha256 { param($file);[system.bitconverter]::tostring([System.Security.Cryptography.sha256]::create().computehash([system.io.file]::openread((resolve-path $file)))) -replace \"-\",\"\" } |
| 17:41 |
timotimo |
for comparison |
| 17:42 |
timotimo |
"this should work all the way back to powershell v1" that's why, of course |
| 17:43 |
timotimo |
the ms docs for powershell only have it since 5.1 |
| 17:47 |
haxmeister |
v1 is an awfully long time ago |
| 17:47 |
timotimo |
cool, you can PowerShell.exe -Version 2 |
| 17:47 |
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timotimo |
i have a powershell version 4.0 here but it has Get-FileHash for some reason |
| 17:49 |
timotimo |
oh |
| 17:50 |
timotimo |
what the docs page means with "the closest version" is apparently "two versions further away from the closest version" |
| 17:50 |
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| 17:51 |
haxmeister |
/cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libgmodule-2.0-0.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libgobject-2.0-0.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libgtk-3-0.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libiconv-2.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libpango-1.0-0.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libpangocairo-1.0-0.dll |
| 17:51 |
haxmeister |
/cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libpangoft2-1.0-0.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libpangowin32-1.0-0.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libpixman-1-0.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libpng15-15.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libxml2-2.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libatk-1.0-0.dll |
| 17:51 |
haxmeister |
/cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libcairo-gobject-2.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libffi-6.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libfontconfig-1.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libfreetype-6.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0-0.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libgdk-3-0.dll |
| 17:51 |
haxmeister |
/cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libgio-2.0-0.dll /cygdrive/c/Users/jday/AppData/Local/Temp/libglib-2.0-0.dll |
| 17:51 |
haxmeister |
oh sorry |
| 17:51 |
haxmeister |
have no idea why it did that |
| 17:51 |
haxmeister |
windows :/ |
| 17:51 |
haxmeister |
liblzma-5.dll is missing? |
| 17:52 |
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| 17:54 |
patrickz |
Hey! I'm currently trying to get buttons on the raspberry pi working using interrupts. |
| 17:55 |
patrickz |
Using NativeCall + the wiringPi library doesn't work, because wiringPi spawns a thead and thus causes a MVM panic when the interrupt hits. |
| 17:56 |
patrickz |
Has somebody already done interrupt stuff with perl6 and can point into a direction? |
| 17:56 |
timotimo |
oh, interrupts? like, posix signals? |
| 17:56 |
patrickz |
think so |
| 17:57 |
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| 17:57 |
patrickz |
if I looked it up correctly wiringPi uses ioctl + poll on a filehandle internally |
| 17:57 |
patrickz |
but there is no IO::Handle.poll in p6... |
| 17:57 |
timotimo |
an strace would perhaps be enlightening |
| 17:59 |
mst |
is it not possible to create a callback that can be passed via NCI and transfers back to the MVM thread first? |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:00 |
timotimo |
we do have something for cross-thread callbacks; at least there's a test that has some of those words in its filename |
| 18:01 |
timotimo |
what does this mvm panic look like, patrickz? |
| 18:01 |
haxmeister |
timotimo: thanks for the help.. zef completed with no errors.. will try some code here shortly |
| 18:03 |
timotimo |
maybe all that's needed is to remove the \ in front of the " signs in the hash function? |
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| 18:16 |
patrickz |
timotimo: MoarVM panic: native callback ran on thread unknown to MoarVM |
| 18:17 |
timotimo |
yes, that makes sense. you might have to use some other ipc mechanism |
| 18:18 |
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| 18:19 |
patrickz |
I thought about replicating the ioctl + poll thing in p6 land. |
| 18:21 |
patrickz |
No idea if those functions are already available in p6. A quick grep on the source only yielded stuff in libuv :-/ |
| 18:23 |
patrickz |
stuff in libuv/src/unix/poll.c is not called in moarvm. I guess p6 has no native poll support. |
| 18:24 |
mst |
patrickz: poll() is just one way to determine if a filehandle is readable |
| 18:24 |
mst |
patrickz: libuv has multiple backend implementations to do that, of which poll is one. |
| 18:25 |
raschipi |
Probably because they develop to the lcd of linux and windows |
| 18:25 |
mst |
patrickz: it would make no sense for moarvm to call that directly |
| 18:25 |
timotimo |
shouldn't it be enough to have a thread that read()s in a loop? |
| 18:25 |
steeznson |
Sorry to go a little off topic: Could someone briefly elaborate a little on grammars here? Am I correct in thinking they just function as classes of regexes? |
| 18:25 |
mst |
raschipi: poll() is often not the best backend on linux anyway |
| 18:27 |
raschipi |
you prefer real time signals? |
| 18:27 |
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| 18:27 |
timotimo |
grammars are actually just a kind of class, and regexes/tokens/rules in them are just a kind of method |
| 18:28 |
steeznson |
@timotimo thanks that clears things up a little |
| 18:29 |
timotimo |
being able to derive from and mix into grammars is super useful |
| 18:30 |
patrickz |
timotimo: just looked at the strace of my little test script failing with wiringPi. It looks like the C poll() just does read() in a loop :-P |
| 18:31 |
timotimo |
well, that's at least easy to replicate in pure perl6 code |
| 18:31 |
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| 18:31 |
steeznson |
great, looking forward to playing with grammars while exploring more of perl's functionality |
| 18:32 |
raschipi |
At least now Linux hackers are working on making aio_read() actually non-blocking. |
| 18:34 |
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| 18:40 |
wander |
how to write rules to get the precedence expected? |
| 18:40 |
wander |
rule mul { | <id> '*' <mul> | <id> '/' <mul> | <id> '%' <mul> | <id> } |
| 18:40 |
wander |
I write down this and find multiplicative-expression assoc<right> |
| 18:41 |
wander |
while expected is left |
| 18:41 |
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| 18:42 |
wander |
oh, it has nothing to do with precedence, but associativity |
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| 18:48 |
tyil |
https://travis-ci.org/scriptkitties/perl6-SemVer/jobs/289455352 does anyone know why zef throws these errors? |
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| 18:55 |
ugexe |
probably because you are using stuff in your depends you should not be using |
| 18:56 |
tyil |
I took it from the META6 spec, but thats out of date then |
| 18:57 |
tyil |
is there an up to date page with the full META6 spec |
| 18:57 |
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| 18:58 |
tyil |
the docs refer to https://design.perl6.org/S22.html#META6.json |
| 18:58 |
tyil |
which has the depends that I based that META6.json on |
| 18:59 |
tyil |
so I guess according to the docs, zef doesnt support stuff it should be supporting |
| 19:00 |
ugexe |
those arent "the docs" |
| 19:00 |
tyil |
ttps://docs.perl6.org/language/modules#index-entry-META6.json-META6.json refers to it |
| 19:00 |
tyil |
if docs.perl6.org isnt "the docs", what is? |
| 19:02 |
ugexe |
what does that url, which is different than the previous url, point at that zef does not support? |
| 19:02 |
tyil |
"See the full META specification for more details as well as further options available for use in META6.json files." |
| 19:02 |
tyil |
that "full META specification" is the S22.html |
| 19:03 |
tyil |
so the docs quite clearly state that S22.html contain the full spec, and the docs.perl6.org page is just a sample |
| 19:03 |
ugexe |
well S22.html at the top clearly states its not the spec |
| 19:03 |
tyil |
"clearly" in a bit overblown |
| 19:04 |
ugexe |
its a bright red header |
| 19:04 |
tyil |
since it says on S22.html it "may" be out of date |
| 19:04 |
tyil |
and the docs.perl6.org points to the "full META spec", to S22.html |
| 19:04 |
ugexe |
"for specs, see the official test suite" |
| 19:05 |
tyil |
which is not actually linked it |
| 19:05 |
tyil |
to |
| 19:05 |
ugexe |
ok, anyways, you know why it doesnt work now. |
| 19:05 |
tyil |
regardless, zef and the docs are out of sync, and the error message could certainly get some improvement |
| 19:05 |
ugexe |
go for it |
| 19:06 |
tyil |
well, I can guess why it doesnt work now, but I still dont have a clear link to the actual spec that zef supposedly supports |
| 19:06 |
ugexe |
its supposedly in the code and CUR/rakudo |
| 19:07 |
tyil |
if you have a real pointer I'd gladly check it out later today, but I'm getting a strong vibe that you're annoyed that I want better docs and zef to adhere to it |
| 19:08 |
wander |
seems Perl 6 grammar use LL() grammar, how to build rules with left-associativity |
| 19:08 |
tyil |
so I'll just leave it at "zef and the docs arent in sync", and let it rest for a bit |
| 19:09 |
moritz |
or do something about it |
| 19:09 |
tyil |
moritz: hence I asked for a clear link to the actual spec ;) |
| 19:09 |
tyil |
then I can update the docs with the correct link, write it out if I have more time |
| 19:10 |
tyil |
"its supposedly here and there" doesn't really help me |
| 19:10 |
tyil |
or saying "the docs are wrong", that doesn't really help anyone either |
| 19:10 |
tyil |
if he doesn't want to help me find out where the correct info is, I can't help to correct the docs |
| 19:11 |
ugexe |
part of your responses are in part to how you framed your questions |
| 19:11 |
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| 19:12 |
tyil |
and because you seem pretty bent on not providing me with the simple answer to my simple question I wanted to let off some steam on both sides |
| 19:12 |
tyil |
because all I get from this is that you're annoyed that I found a possible issue with zef |
| 19:12 |
tyil |
and I'm getting annoyed at you evading trying to actually help me |
| 19:12 |
tyil |
and this is helping nobody so far |
| 19:13 |
raschipi |
if the answer was easy, it would have been provided to you already |
| 19:14 |
tyil |
my question right now is, where can I find the META6.json spec directly |
| 19:14 |
raschipi |
https://docs.perl6.org/language/modules#index-entry-META6.json-META6.json |
| 19:15 |
moritz |
tyil: there's stuff on docs.perl6.org and in the synopsis |
| 19:15 |
tyil |
which refers to the "full spec" which is either incorrect or not cerroctly implemented |
| 19:15 |
moritz |
they are out of sync, and out of sync with the implementation |
| 19:15 |
moritz |
hence, the need for improvement which you mentioned |
| 19:15 |
tyil |
yes, but I cant improve it if nobody wants to link me the full spec |
| 19:15 |
ugexe |
again with the framing... maybe not-yet-implemented would have been a better choice |
| 19:15 |
raschipi |
There's a note in the spec that says it's known to be incomplete. |
| 19:15 |
samcv |
so i think the answer is just to not make sub items inside of depends |
| 19:15 |
samcv |
and then zef should be able to handle it? |
| 19:16 |
raschipi |
I linked it above for you, that's it, all there is. |
| 19:16 |
moritz |
tyil: sure you can, if you want to dig in and find out what's actually going on |
| 19:16 |
ugexe |
yes |
| 19:16 |
moritz |
this is not waterfall, where a Complete Spec[tm] is written, and everything is derived from it |
| 19:16 |
perlpilot |
tyil: what samcv said. |
| 19:16 |
tyil |
perlpilot: I know thats the solution, we're past that point for quite a while now |
| 19:17 |
perlpilot |
tyil: ah, then update the docs to reflect reality :-) |
| 19:18 |
tyil |
"zef does not support the full META6 spec", I can just add that yes |
| 19:18 |
raschipi |
tyil: the docs were written as forward-compatible with the new and improved specification you're planning to write. |
| 19:18 |
raschipi |
this way you'll won't have to rewrite the docs after writing the specification. |
| 19:19 |
ugexe |
we dont know if it supports the full meta spec or not. what is in the SPECULATION documents is not neccesarily the spec |
| 19:20 |
tyil |
it clearly says "specification" in the link on docs.perl6, not speculation |
| 19:20 |
tyil |
idk why you're making such a big deal out of a simple question |
| 19:21 |
ugexe |
uh ok |
| 19:21 |
tyil |
I'm willing to update the docs on this to avoid confusion, and if there currently is no actual spec to adhere to outside of the sample on docs.perl6.org, thats fine too |
| 19:22 |
raschipi |
the word 'specification' on those documentsz is there because history. |
| 19:23 |
raschipi |
perl6 actual specifications are written in the form of tests |
| 19:23 |
perlpilot |
tyil: that section where it says "META specification" also talks about the "META.info file" too, so it's nicely out of date. |
| 19:23 |
tyil |
perlpilot: yes, and it refers back to perl6.org which is also out of date, which just causes confusion |
| 19:23 |
tyil |
which is why I want to update it |
| 19:24 |
tyil |
but on this particular issue I can't seem to get a clear and straightforward answer |
| 19:25 |
masak |
greetings #perl6 |
| 19:25 |
raschipi |
heya masak |
| 19:25 |
raschipi |
tyil: there's no specification. |
| 19:25 |
masak |
I just learned from a Guy Steele talk that the `?` in regexes was probably invented by Alfred Aho back in 1975 |
| 19:27 |
moritz |
\o masak, long time no see |
| 19:27 |
masak |
yeah. I haven't defected or anything, I'm just being "put to good use" at $work :) |
| 19:28 |
moritz |
btw, while you were away, I've written two books :-) |
| 19:28 |
Geth |
¦ doc: Tyil++ created pull request #1614: Remove link to outdated META6 spec |
| 19:28 |
Geth |
¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/pull/1614 |
| 19:28 |
masak |
I noticed! congratulations! |
| 19:28 |
masak |
moritz++ |
| 19:28 |
moritz |
thanks :) |
| 19:29 |
moritz |
No. 2 isn't quite published yet |
| 19:29 |
moritz |
but the manuscript is submitted, and I keep running into topics that I could have covered |
| 19:30 |
masak |
I've *started* on one of my two books, but there's ways to go still |
| 19:30 |
moritz |
which one? |
| 19:31 |
masak |
the cat theory one |
| 19:32 |
raschipi |
about the physical state of cat matter? |
| 19:32 |
raschipi |
are cats solid or liquid? |
| 19:32 |
moritz |
and if it's too much at once, we'll replace it with more theory or less theory :-) |
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callyalater |
m: my $s = "p" ~ 0x304.chr; |
| 20:08 |
camelia |
rakudo-moar 2fba0ba0d: ( no output ) |
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| 20:10 |
callyalater |
m: my $s = "p" ~ 0x304.chr; say $s; say $s.samemark("a"); say $s.ords; .say for $s.uninames; say $s.codes; say $s.chars; |
| 20:10 |
camelia |
rakudo-moar 2fba0ba0d: OUTPUT: «p̄p(112 772)LATIN SMALL LETTER PCOMBINING MACRON21» |
| 20:11 |
callyalater |
m: my $s = "p" ~ 0x304.chr; say $s.uninames; |
| 20:11 |
camelia |
rakudo-moar 2fba0ba0d: OUTPUT: «(LATIN SMALL LETTER P COMBINING MACRON)» |
| 20:11 |
Zoffix |
tyil: the clear and straightforward answer is there's no "official" and complete spec for META contents at the moment. So far we're "winging" it with what zef does and what the slightly outdated speculation you saw documents. Making a concrete spec is listed as "would be good" on 6.d agenda https://github.com/perl6/6.d-prep/blob/master/TODO/README.md#see-if-we-can-nail-down-the-meta6json-spec , but I haven't |
| 20:11 |
Zoffix |
seen anyone willing to champion that. There's a separate #perl6-toolchain channel for this stuff. I don't sit in it, but it's possible some of the spec was discussed (logs https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-toolchain/2017-10-18 ) |
| 20:12 |
Zoffix |
tyil: so for your PR to docs, perhaps it better to clarify it's a work in progress and keep the link rather than removing it |
| 20:12 |
geekosaur |
META format still changes every couple weeks, in fact |
| 20:12 |
geekosaur |
I'm not sure we're anywhere near the point of having a spec as such |
| 20:12 |
Zoffix |
FWIW, it might be best to spec (as roast spec) just the basics, leaving extended stuff as a separate spec |
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| 20:14 |
Zoffix |
I'm not surprised. In logs I saw a person interested in the spec getting annoyed at vague responses |
| 20:15 |
raschipi |
Well, it would help if someone in the chgannel knew the answer. |
| 20:16 |
Zoffix |
:) |
| 20:16 |
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| 20:18 |
* Zoffix |
goes back to the dev cave |
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| 20:33 |
pmurias |
if we are going to have a same name multiple authors for a given module which one will be installed when I type 'zef install Foo'? |
| 20:35 |
tyil |
ZofBot: thats fine too, but as it stands its only causing confusion, so I want to change that at least |
| 20:36 |
tyil |
samcv suggested to change the wording to say that there is a bigger target to work towards, but that it currently is not supported by the existing package managers, so one should stick to the sample on the docs.perl6 page |
| 20:37 |
tyil |
.tell zoffix thats fine too, but as it stands its only causing confusion, so I want to change that at least (I highlighted it to your bot by accident) |
| 20:37 |
yoleaux |
tyil: I'll pass your message to zoffix. |
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| 20:56 |
ugexe |
pmurias: whatever the first repo/mirror in the zef config that reports the highest version |
| 20:59 |
ugexe |
if you want a specific auth explicity, then be explicit. if an ecosystem allows itself to make the implicit invocation problematic then user/company policy would likely remove them from the config as a source |
| 21:00 |
ugexe |
similar to when you say `use Foo` vs `use Foo:auth<bar>` |
| 21:13 |
pmurias |
ugexe: so the plan is that the ecosystem will enforce name ownership? |
| 21:13 |
ugexe |
that is up to whatevery ecosystems policy |
| 21:14 |
ugexe |
its not enforced in the current p6c ecosystem, but its been able to maintain sanity |
| 21:15 |
pmurias |
all the default zef ones must enforce that eventually |
| 21:17 |
pmurias |
otherwise people who type zef install DBIish will install DBIsh:auth<evilbitcoinminer> |
| 21:20 |
ugexe |
it just mirrors in general |
| 21:23 |
ugexe |
you can change the default to true/false in the config for what does exists, or with --/p6c --/cpan etc (commands also pulled from config file). so the tooling to do that exists |
| 21:23 |
ugexe |
https://github.com/ugexe/zef/blob/master/resources/config.json#L32-L56 |
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| 22:33 |
HoboWithAShotgun |
.tell skaji I hacked on mi6, check out https://github.com/skaji/mi6/pull/28 |
| 22:33 |
yoleaux |
12:18Z <DrForr> HoboWithAShotgun: I'll probably add it over the weekend. I was thinking it should do something less trivial than bracing, but braces are good enough for now, I suppose. |
| 22:33 |
yoleaux |
HoboWithAShotgun: I'll pass your message to skaji. |
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| 23:40 |
Herby_ |
o/ |
| 23:40 |
tyil |
\s |
| 23:40 |
tyil |
\o |
| 23:40 |
tyil |
* |
| 23:40 |
Herby_ |
\o/ |
| 23:41 |
Herby_ |
Anyone know if there is a plan to put a CSV module in with Rakudo Star? |
| 23:41 |
tyil |
I dont know of any such plans, but there might be more knowledgable people around |
| 23:41 |
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| 23:42 |
Herby_ |
a module for basic CSV reading/writing would definitely be used I think |
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