Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-11-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:28 comborico1611 What is the purpose of the braces in following statement? $object.someMethod({:red(195), :green(110), :blue(70),});
01:29 El_Che it's a hash
01:29 comborico1611 Hmm. Okay. Thank you.
01:30 El_Che the :red(195) is a short hand for red => 195
01:30 comborico1611 Oh!
01:31 comborico1611 Also is the list comma a typo?
01:31 El_Che without the braces you'll be passing a list
01:31 comborico1611 (I'm copying it as I see it from a book.)
01:32 El_Che the comma separates the pairs
01:32 comborico1611 Oh!
01:32 comborico1611 The last one is necessary?
01:32 comborico1611 (70),
01:33 El_Che no
01:33 comborico1611 Is it an error?
01:33 El_Che no
01:33 geekosaur the last oen isn't necessary here, but becomes habit because (x) is just x but (x,) is a list containing x
01:33 El_Che it's good for copy pasting, or adding one more
01:33 El_Che certainly if you format the hash in different lines
01:33 geekosaur also it makes it easier to add more values to the end, especially if you are spreading it over multiple lines
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01:34 comborico1611 Hmm. I will add these to my notes. Thank you!
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01:35 El_Che comborico1611: have a look at hashes here: https://docs.perl6.org/type/Hash
01:35 El_Che if not clear, raise a bug :)
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01:36 comborico1611 Thank you. First I'm going to go back in this book and see if the author mention the : shorthand syntax. If not, I'll make sure I I rip on him for that in my review.
01:37 El_Che who's book are you reading?
01:37 geekosaur 'colonpair' is the standard term for it
01:37 comborico1611 Think Perl 6
01:37 El_Che I browsed through it on orailly safari
01:38 El_Che I think it's more a "learn to program" book than a "learn perl 6" book, though
01:40 comborico1611 I disagree. I think it is a book for people which know how to program, but definitely not Perl 5 programmers.
01:40 comborico1611 Ideal for someone who has been away from programming for a while.
01:41 El_Che like I said, I just browsed through it
01:42 comborico1611 But i just admit that I'm not the typical programmer type.  I'm more of an I/T type then computer science.
01:42 comborico1611 Just = must
01:42 comborico1611 Than
01:42 El_Che in that case it may be a good fit
01:45 comborico1611 Geekosaur, thank you for the term colonpair. You just save me 15 minutes. And he did mention it in the book, but it is in a chapter which he said could be skipped on a first reading. The author has a few chapters dedicated to practice exercises.
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01:53 bb hello
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02:16 audiatorix is there any elegant way to get an array of each byte of a string?
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02:19 geekosaur https://docs.perl6.org/type/Str#method_encode
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02:22 audiatorix Would I need to use the experimental unpack method on blob?
02:22 geekosaur and presumably .List to turn the buf8 into a list
02:22 geekosaur (or .Array if it needs to be mutable)
02:25 geekosaur m: "abc".encode("latin1").List.say
02:25 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «(97 98 99)␤»
02:25 geekosaur note that you have to encode it; Str does not contain bytes, it contains graphemes
02:27 audiatorix right
02:27 audiatorix thanks
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02:32 grondilu is JSON::Fast broken or something?  I have an error complaining about parenthesis
02:37 grondilu ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /home/grondilu/site#sources/5FD1C95F89B03F456148D15142B2C1CA718C905F (JSON::Fast)
02:37 grondilu Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' (corresponding starter was at line 53)
02:37 grondilu ------>         last unless ⏏$wsord == 32 || $wsord == 10 || $wsord =
02:40 * grondilu can't even run panda update because of this
02:40 grondilu should I gave up on panda and install zef?
02:41 grondilu *give
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02:54 comborico1611 Goodnight!
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02:56 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:03 * grondilu updated JSON::Fast with zef
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05:22 wander afternoon #perl6 ~
05:28 pentashift Good evening
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07:09 wander .ask [Coke] what is the use of Disambiguation files? It seems we cannot reach those pages directly from out doc site
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07:47 ZzZombo why
07:47 ZzZombo m: my Int:D $x=1;say $x.isa(Int:D)
07:47 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «False␤»
07:47 ZzZombo m: my Int:D $x=1;say $x.isa(Int)
07:47 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «True␤»
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08:00 moritz ZzZombo: isa is not a type check, it's an "is instance of"-check
08:00 moritz ZzZombo: and 1 is an instance of Int, not of Int:D
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08:01 moritz I know that's confusing :-)
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08:01 moritz m: subset A of Int where * > 2; say 5.isa(A)
08:01 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «False␤»
08:01 ufobat_ what do i need to do in oder to pass something that was created like that: "my Mu $l := nqp::list_s()" into a sub with a signature like this sub foo(*@a) { ... }
08:01 ufobat_ basically what $list.flat() would do?
08:02 moritz ufobat_: have you tried foo(|$l) ?
08:03 ufobat_ nope
08:03 ufobat_ Cannot find method 'FLATTENABLE_LIST':
08:04 moritz foo(@$l) ?
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08:05 ufobat_ m: use nqp; my Mu $l := nqp::list_s("a", "b"); sub foo(*@a) { say @a.perl }; foo(@$l)
08:05 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «Cannot find method 'cache': no method cache and no .^find_method␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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08:05 ufobat_ maybe i need to create a List object, first?
08:06 moritz m: use nqp; my Mu $l := nqp::list_s("a", "b"); sub foo(*@a) { say @a.perl }; foo(@ = $l)
08:06 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «Cannot find method 'perl': no method cache and no .^find_method␤  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
08:06 moritz :(
08:06 ufobat_ my first time in nqp :D
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08:09 geekosaur you'll have to find whatever nqp function flattens an nqp list; it's not a perl 6 list
08:12 ufobat_ there is an interator, but i dont find something to flatten it :(
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08:28 lookatme m: use nqp; my Mu $l := nqp::list_s("a", "b"); sub foo(*@a) { say @a.WHAT; }; foo(@ = $l)
08:28 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «(Array)␤»
08:28 lookatme m: use nqp; my Mu $l := nqp::list_s("a", "b"); sub foo(*@a) { say @a.of; }; foo(@ = $l)
08:28 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «(Mu)␤»
08:30 lookatme m: use nqp; my Mu $l := nqp::list_s("a", "b"); sub foo(*@a) { say @a.^methods.grep({$^a.name eq "perl"}); }; foo(@ = $l)
08:30 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «(perl perl)␤»
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09:13 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: 9b946252ac | (Alex Chen)++ | 3 files
09:13 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: Add edit ico
09:13 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico:
09:13 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: A try to fix #1622 .
09:13 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9b946252ac
09:15 Geth ¦ doc: W4anD0eR96++ created pull request #1667: Add edit ico
09:15 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/pull/1667
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09:16 AlexDaniel m: say 42
09:16 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «42␤»
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09:26 ufobat_ lizmat, you're an nqp guru :-) you could help me, maybe?
09:26 lizmat I might, what is the problem ?
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09:27 ufobat_ maybe you can read up in your history, i want to pass a my Mu $l = nqp::list_s() thingy into a sub(*@foo) { ... }
09:27 ufobat_ https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1242#discussion_r149797893
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09:32 lizmat ufobat_: that won't work
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09:33 ufobat_ ja :-)
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09:34 lizmat ufobat_: the closest thing you can do with a list:s:
09:34 lizmat m: use nqp; my $s := nqp::list_s("a","b","c"); sub a(Mu $list) { dd $list.^name }; a $s
09:34 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «"BOOTStrArray"␤»
09:34 ufobat_ the thing i tought was that tha code in IO::Spec::*.catdir() does exactly what resolve() is missing
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09:35 travis-ci Doc build passed. Alex Chen 'Add edit ico
09:35 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/299535705 https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9b946252ac6a
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09:37 ufobat_ your example wont help in the PR. I thought maybe i could create a List with the $l in it?.. But regarding my PR is it reasonable to use catdir() in resolve()? and maybe you have a hint how this could be achived?
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09:50 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: 5a749c93ec | (Alex Chen)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | htmlify.p6
09:50 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: Update htmlify.p6
09:50 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5a749c93ec
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09:50 lizmat ufobat_: sorry, was distracted
09:51 ufobat_ no worries :-)
09:52 lizmat Spec.catdir is a public method, right?
09:52 ufobat_ right
09:52 lizmat the only way to make that work, is it to have a candidate that takes a Mu and then handle it inside in nqp
09:53 lizmat .flat will never work on a list_s anyways
09:53 lizmat need to be afk now&
09:56 ufobat_ okay! thank you
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10:53 moritz didn't we have a somewhat general op for upgrading NQP to Perl 6 types?
10:54 moritz m: use nqp; my Mu $l := nqp::list_s("a", "b"); sub foo(*@a) { say @a.perl }; foo(nqp::hllizefor($l, 'perl6'))
10:54 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «Cannot find method 'perl': no method cache and no .^find_method␤  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
10:54 jnthn nqp::hllize
10:55 jnthn Oh, you found it :)
10:55 moritz m: use nqp; my Mu $l := nqp::list_s("a", "b"); sub foo(*@a) { say @a.perl }; foo(nqp::hllize($l))
10:55 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «Cannot find method 'perl': no method cache and no .^find_method␤  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
10:55 moritz seems it doesn't configure a mapping for list_s
10:55 jnthn But Nope
10:55 jnthn gah
10:55 jnthn No, it doesn't
10:55 jnthn But
10:56 jnthn my str @array is using the exact same representation as an nqp::list_s
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12:19 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: 21437e407d | (Alex Chen)++ | 3 files
12:19 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: Keep ico style consistent
12:19 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/21437e407d
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12:40 holyghost I've made something which uses a levels hash inside octants to collide against intersected world objects (something based on an octtree), I don't know if it's any faster but here it is at pm : http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=1203007  I will port it to perl6 tomorrow or this weekend
12:47 xi- is there a way I could use modules from an entire directory without having to explicitly use each module?
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12:52 DrForr You may not have wanted to know this, but Common Lisp's (loop) functionality is trivial to implement.
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12:55 DrForr Well, at least the 'collect' bit which is all I was really after.
12:58 DrForr And I get my first "Heap exhausted, game over." error in sbcl.
12:59 DrForr xi - maybe look at Pluggable?
13:01 perlawhirl Hi DrForr
13:01 perlawhirl I'm running into a Readline error (it occurs on 2 Centos 6 boxes), but... I don't suspect it's Readlines fault, so I haven't raised an issue
13:02 perlawhirl but can you take a peep at this gist and tell me if you've got any ideas
13:02 perlawhirl https://gist.github.com/0racle/c7e65b6946a30479cf8493fbafc04f53
13:02 perlawhirl I suspect it's NativeCalls fault, but... I'm known to be wrong about things from time to time :D
13:04 DrForr It could be me, that might be a new variable that's appeared since I've seriously looked at the code.
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13:06 DrForr Which is an embarrassingly long time, I'll freely admit. Let me set an alert on my phone and I'll delve into it tonight. I'm at work here and was just tossing out a quick tidbit.
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13:07 perlawhirl no probs. It's been happening for maybe a month, it's not a deal breaker, just a little annoying... which is to say, no rush, i appreciate you taking the time when you can.
13:08 perlawhirl The line it points to in readline is just a sub that calls a native sub... nothing too special going on, so i suspect something has changed inside NativeCall
13:08 perlawhirl (which may need to be accounted for in Readline, possibly)
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13:08 DrForr Right. I certainly won't dismiss it as a user error.
13:10 perlawhirl both boxes are running a Rakudo manually built from head. I might see if I can replicate it Star or with a point release via rakudobrew.
13:10 perlawhirl will let you know
13:13 DrForr I'm just gratified that someone is using the code... I've got some plans that have been brewing while I take a break from things.
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13:14 perlawhirl So, doing a little digging and the error looks like it's coming from nativecall.c in MoarVM
13:14 perlawhirl https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/87191078c38be29be16a0801963552f3455ea495/src/core/nativecall.c#L153
13:14 DrForr Incidentaly 'say Loop { Repeat 3; Collect 5; };' correctly returns [ 5 5 5 ]
13:14 [Coke] .tell wander not sure why you're asking me about the disambiguation files. They predate my involvement with doc, I don't have any special knowledge, sorry.
13:14 census DrForr !
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13:15 DrForr Someone on FB said "I like (format) but for gods' take don't impleent (loop)." Red flag. Bull.
13:16 DrForr Er, gods' sake. Insert Japanese pun here.
13:17 [Coke] ... ENOTBOT
13:18 wander [Coke] I don't know who is in charge of this stuff. Could you please take a look at https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1666
13:19 DrForr I'm writing (among the usual too damn many things) Format::Lisp and the CL test suite uses (loop) constructs. I just wanted to be able to write the test files so that they look like the CL test suite.
13:19 geospeck What is the equivalent to perl's 5 "perl -c -Mwarnings -Ilib" for syntax checking? I know you can do "perl6 -c" but I cant see anything for warnings. Thanks
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13:19 wander If these files are useless now, we can stop generating it.
13:20 DrForr This way all I need to do is replace () with {}, move to prefix, change case and Robert becomes the brother of your father.
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13:23 wander .ask moritz are you in charge of 'write-disambiguation-files'? why do we generate disambiguation files? please take a look at https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1666
13:24 wander I found moritz wrote the origin version 'write-disambiguation-files'
13:26 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: 4f224f8be1 | (Alex Chen)++ | 2 files
13:26 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: Remove ads
13:26 Geth ¦ doc/add-edit-ico: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4f224f8be1
13:27 Geth ¦ doc/master: 5 commits pushed by (Alex Chen)++
13:27 Geth ¦ doc/master: 9b946252ac | Add edit ico
13:27 Geth ¦ doc/master: 5a749c93ec | Update htmlify.p6
13:27 Geth ¦ doc/master: 21437e407d | Keep ico style consistent
13:27 Geth ¦ doc/master: 4f224f8be1 | Remove ads
13:27 Geth ¦ doc/master: 2f61c619df | Merge pull request #1667 from perl6/add-edit-ico
13:27 Geth ¦ doc/master: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/b663b0428c...2f61c619df
13:29 [Coke] wander: no one's in charge of anything at this point. You should be able to generate the site locally and see if any of the disambiguation pages are linked to from anywhere.
13:29 [Coke] If we're not using them, we either *should* use them, or not create them, I agree.
13:31 moritz wander: the idea was that you can just put anything in the URL after https://docs.perl6.org/ and you'd get some docs for that
13:33 [Coke] might be able to use it as the basis of  https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1099
13:34 wander well, sounds functional. but we have search.js, don't we? and this usage is implicit
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13:35 moritz wander: the difference is that when somebody asks me about an operator, I can give them an URL without having to open the search thingy first
13:35 moritz I'm not super into this feature, but I did built it because it scratched an itch I had
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13:43 wander emmm...then we need a better searching(listing) machine
13:43 wander https://docs.racket-lang.org/search/index.html
13:44 moritz why?
13:44 moritz even with a better search engine, I actually have to open it to use it
13:44 moritz (not saying we don't, I just don't see the connection here)
13:45 wander https://docs.racket-lang.org/search/index.html?q=let
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13:50 wander I'm thinking about search engine... if the search action result in a page listing thing relevant, which is quite similar with disambiguation file, it may be a better practice. Meanwhile, you can write give guys an URL in format above.
13:50 wander Meanwhile, you can write an URL like above and give it to others
13:51 wander Without open it and use it
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14:26 Geth ¦ doc: 6e1aa87b7e | holli-holzer++ (committed by Zoffix Znet) | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod6
14:26 Geth ¦ doc: Update 5to6-nutshell.pod6 (#1665)
14:26 Geth ¦ doc:
14:26 Geth ¦ doc: mentioned AUTOLOAD/FALLBACK
14:26 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6e1aa87b7e
14:26 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutshell
14:28 Geth ¦ doc: de8acaf0d9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod6
14:28 Geth ¦ doc: Reword
14:28 Geth ¦ doc:
14:28 Geth ¦ doc: "Gone" suggests the feature is gone entirely, but FALLBACK is very
14:28 Geth ¦ doc: similar, so just suggest it as alternative.
14:28 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/de8acaf0d9
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15:56 luke___ Hello, I'm using the Rakudo compiler and I'm wondering what the -n option does exactly
15:57 luke___ I know that it loops  over each line on input, but is there a way to set code to be executed after the loop?
15:58 AlexDaniel luke___: LAST should work
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15:58 AlexDaniel luke___: https://docs.perl6.org/language/phasers#LAST
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15:59 [Coke] luke___: cat /etc/passwd | perl6 -ne '.say; END {say "EEK"}'
15:59 [Coke] (I tried LAST, no luck)
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16:00 AlexDaniel huh
16:00 AlexDaniel I was 100% convinced that it was working
16:01 luke___ Since I'm going to use it for golfing, END is even better ;-)
16:01 AlexDaniel hah
16:01 AlexDaniel luke___: anyway, I created this issue: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1668
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16:02 AlexDaniel luke___: is it https://code-golf.io/ ? :)
16:02 luke___ I'm on codegolf.stackexchange.com
16:02 AlexDaniel ah okay
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16:03 luke___ This is my current solution: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/147584/63774
16:03 luke___ As it's twice as long as the Perl 5 solutions, I'm quite sure I can do it a lot shorter
16:03 luke___ But since I only started learning Perl 6 3 days ago, I don't think it's too bad...
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16:06 luke___ Is there a variable that is auto-initialised to 0?
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16:09 [Coke] m: my $a; say ++$a;
16:09 camelia rakudo-moar f8e1a5faa: OUTPUT: «1␤»
16:09 Geth ¦ perl6.org: 634f187e7e | (Steve Mynott)++ | 2 files
16:09 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Rakudo Star 2017.10
16:09 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/634f187e7e
16:20 ZzZombo @!children.grep({.isa(Grammar::VDF::Key-Value) && (!@names || .name eq @names.any)}); #this returns all values, probably filtered by name(s)
16:20 ZzZombo @!children.first({.isa(Grammar::VDF::Key-Value) && .name eq $name}); #this is supposed to give first matching value, but always gives Nil, while the first works. What's wrong?
16:25 stmuk http://rakudo.org/2017/11/09/announce-rakudo-star-release-2017-10/
16:26 [Coke] stmuk++ #thanks for all the star releases!
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16:37 Geth ¦ doc: 2ca0128323 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod6
16:37 Geth ¦ doc: Try to workaround busted link parser
16:37 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2ca0128323
16:37 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutshell
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17:20 havenwood I recall from years ago that there was a way to enforce OO style method calls, but I'm not coming up with anything searching for it. Is the "use oo" directive still a thing?
17:20 Juerd What does "OO style" mean?
17:22 havenwood Juerd: `"hi".say` enforced over `say("hi")`
17:22 havenwood Or the other way around.
17:26 perlpilot "enforced" doesn't sound very perlish
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17:36 Juerd havenwood: The latter is not a method call, but a function call.
17:37 havenwood Juerd: Right, I'd swear there was a way to limit to only function calls or method on receiver calls.
17:37 ilmari say is both a built-in function and a method on Mu
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17:37 havenwood Juerd: Maybe I'm thinking of another language, or maybe it was removed. I'm at a loss...
17:37 ilmari sounds like you want a linter
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17:54 wander how can I convert `grammar { token Top { | a { say 42 } | b { say 10} } }` into grammar with actions object?
17:55 wander that is, I have alternations. for this case, maybe I can test what `$/` is, but how about things go complex?
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17:57 moritz when things become complex, you move the branches to separate regexes or tokens
17:57 moritz and then the token that matches triggers its own action method
17:59 wander ok
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18:23 moritz wander: have you looked at a few existing, working grammars, and looked how they do things?
18:23 [Coke] havenwood: being able to restrict that doesn't sound familiar to me.
18:24 moritz there are a few grammars for existing formats on modules.perl6.org that are less than a screen page each, and work well
18:27 wander Not a medium size project. Rakudo's Grammar.nqp is too large to understand well, demo grammars are not very practical.
18:30 moritz I'm not talking about demos
18:30 moritz there are working INI and JSON grammars, for example
18:31 moritz a Fortran grammar that has ~100 lines: https://github.com/nobodyinperson/perl6-fortran-grammar/blob/master/lib/Fortran/Grammar.pm6 (no idea how good it is though)
18:33 moritz JSON: https://github.com/moritz/json/blob/master/lib/JSON/Tiny/Grammar.pm
18:34 moritz INI: https://github.com/tadzik/perl6-Config-INI/blob/master/lib/Config/INI.pm
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18:38 * wander have opened the links and write them on the note
18:39 wander Here is my practice in grammar: https://gist.github.com/W4anD0eR96/8ea22f570f1ef30a9204a6a98878e36e
18:40 wander Part of a lesson task, convert C code(subset of grammar) into an intermediate code
18:40 wander ugly though
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19:41 daniel__ Hello all!
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19:41 DrForr Evenin'.
19:41 luke___ Hello
19:42 daniel__ I have a strange issue with $@ that I am trying to wrap my ahead around. $@ starts out populated, but after the statement "if ($@)", it is empty.
19:42 daniel__ Stranger still, "if ($@)" evaluates true
19:43 moritz daniel__: are you actually using Perl 6?
19:43 moritz if not, you should try #perl
19:43 daniel__ Oops, that is my bad, thank you
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19:48 dj howdy.  I'm probably not the first to notice this: at the bottom of https://perl6.org/compilers/features it claims to be updated hourly, but the timestamps below that are quite old (from 2016)
19:49 geekosaur that page probably shouldn't exist any more
19:50 dj the latest rakudo announcement references it
19:50 moritz dj: thanks for the report
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19:52 geekosaur let me correct that: comparisons to niecza (and pugs mentioned at the bottom) shouldn't exist any more.
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20:13 ufobat_ is perl6/roast the complete testsuite for perl6 or is there somewhere something else? in other workds, if i make a change and pass the spectest it's okay so far
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20:14 AlexDaniel ufobat_: there are also some rakudo-specific tests: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/master/t
20:14 moritz ufobat_: there are some tests local to rakudo (in the t/) directory too, but not too many
20:14 moritz ufobat_: in rakudo, if you do a "make test" and a "make spectest", you should be covered
20:15 ufobat_ ok, ty :-)
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20:34 leont Regarding the picture thing, I remember a picture of perl6 people being taken at an NLPW 1 or 2 years ago, probably by woolfy, that may be suitable (though I still would recommend checking it with people first)
20:34 DrForr leont: I'd guess it's the one we're using on the FB Perl 6 group backdrop.
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20:41 * leont given myself a FB-free month, so I can't check :-)
20:46 DrForr Good call.
20:47 tadzik we'll give you a coin after 12 months :P
20:47 DrForr Bitcoin? Sign me up!
20:48 moritz a dogecoin maybe :-)
20:49 tadzik a dogecoin tipbot on #perl6, that'd be quite something :)
20:49 DrForr WTH do Venetian rulers have to do with blockchains?
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20:51 tadzik sounds like there's more meanings to "doge" that I was aware of :o
20:52 DrForr When Venice was at the height of its power, they elected their rulers and called them doges.
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20:54 moritz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogecoin
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20:58 * DrForr wishes he had a fan. The downstairs neighbors are having goulash, and it's all over.
21:02 tadzik ach, the smell of goulash... a double-edged sword
21:04 DrForr Indeed. There's a place by the office that makes the good stuff, but I don't have to live above it :)
21:06 DrForr Hrm, I'm moving above a Chinese restaurant tomorrow, maybe I should have thought about that.
21:07 DrForr It might also increase the odds of Kristen Wiig being in the neighborhood, so there's an upside.
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21:19 tadzik hmm, a "cascade operator": https://gist.githubusercontent.com/kasperpeulen/587f0b225c3ad5e1fc338e0c10002918/raw/e25231bd3dc8ceec7a80a03967b9541bf002e128/cascade.dart
21:19 tadzik is there a module for it already? :)
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21:21 tadzik oh, and I haven't said it here yet: consider getting a dashcam if you drive a car
21:21 tadzik people can be... surprising sometimes
21:21 moritz like, throwing themselves before your car to claim insurance?
21:22 tadzik I head about that happening too, in my case it was a Moose Test with another car playing the Moose role
21:22 tadzik I passed but ripped a tire on a curb, now the cost is on me
21:23 tadzik (also, it might've made a really cool replay :P)
21:23 moritz ah, good old Moose :/
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21:25 comborico1611 I'm frustrated guys.
21:25 tadzik how can we help? :)
21:26 comborico1611 You know those people who want to be a programmer, but they don't like math problems?
21:26 tadzik sure
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21:26 comborico1611 Well, I'm one of those.
21:26 tadzik so, you're looking for exercises but don't like project euler?
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21:26 DrForr Project Eule?
21:26 ryn1x_ joined #perl6
21:26 comborico1611 I have interest in networking. And I've even read 1.5 books on it.
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21:26 DrForr *Euler
21:27 comborico1611 Well my frustration comes from and unsure position whether I should continue trying to be programmer.
21:27 tadzik why do you think you shouldn't?
21:28 tadzik does everyone feel like a math geek and you feel out of place, or?
21:28 comborico1611 The route I was told to get into networking is first to learn C, which is where I'm having a problem.
21:29 comborico1611 The practice problems in most of the programming books or heavily math-related. So I typically skip those.
21:29 DrForr Most of what I do for work is implementing business logic which is nowhere near hardcore math.
21:29 tadzik +1
21:29 comborico1611 That's encouraging to hear. Thanks.
21:29 tadzik the most advanced math I ever used in my "career" was a cos(x) function. And I say career in quotes because it was for a university project
21:30 tadzik that was... let's see
21:30 tadzik 4 years ago apparently
21:30 comborico1611 So I recently bought a bundle of books. Three of them are about C or Unix related. Two of them are concerning cplusplus framework called I can't remember it's for a networking.
21:30 tadzik oh sorry, it was atan() actually :)
21:30 moritz comborico1611: learning C for network programming is very old school. You can do with dynamic languages (Python, Perl), or Go if you need higher performance
21:31 DrForr I've done N-gram cluster analysis for lexemes, which is fairly intense, but I was also doing more of the R portion of R&D.
21:31 moritz and Perl/Python/Go are easier on the beginner than C or C++
21:31 tadzik I'd say C is a useful rite of passage if you want to get into programming for programming's sake
21:31 comborico1611 Moritz, but the good resources that people recommend are typically in C.
21:32 tadzik it's definitely beneficial to know how things work under the hood when writing a highlevel code, but nowhere near essential
21:32 tadzik so what books did you buy, comborico1611?
21:33 DrForr The goulash has dissipated, yay. About to start freezing here.
21:33 moritz though some of the best networking people I know only do a little programming
21:33 comborico1611 In my mind, I'm trying to attain a higher level of networking skills, because I'm not interested in creating programs, mainly because I'm not good at problem solving.  I suspect that networking is more repetitious than General software development.
21:33 moritz but they know all about BGP, VPLS, router configuration, VLANs and all that good stuff
21:34 comborico1611 Networking (that famous one). Let me go upstairs and check but they're all called.
21:34 DrForr These days there's a big push to automate a lot of that, so Docker/ansible is useful too.
21:34 tadzik by The Guy? :P
21:34 tadzik it rings a bell
21:35 comborico1611 Okay so the granddaddy book is UNIX Network programming by Stevens.
21:35 comborico1611 You need to know C to understand that.
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21:36 comborico1611 Someone recommended learning about computer systems before learning C because that would make things easier. So I bought computer systems by Bryant.
21:37 comborico1611 I read computer networking by kurose, and it was easy to understand and interesting.
21:38 comborico1611 Another Unix book is UNIX systems programming by Robbins, which you need to know C 4.
21:38 comborico1611 And then a small book like a hundred Pages called pocket socket guide which is written in C as well.
21:38 tadzik hm
21:38 comborico1611 And like I said, two books 4 C plus plus networking using the ace framework.
21:39 DrForr Well, beyond pointer math there's really not a lot of intense math involved in the network layers...
21:39 tadzik C can be a bit intimidating, but the upside is, once you understand it, little will be able to scare you :)
21:39 comborico1611 Nope. Learning the router algorithms we're difficult and I skipped it.
21:39 moritz DrForr: there's always bit operations for dealing with IP network addresses and stuff
21:40 comborico1611 Bit operations meaning requiring C?
21:40 DrForr Yea, but I don't count those as "advanced." But my background is maths.
21:40 DrForr comborico1611: You can do bitwise stuff in most languages.
21:41 comborico1611 And then I bought Pearl 6 because I felt like it was such a radically different programming language that knowledge of it may help steer me in the right direction.
21:43 DrForr Perl actually gets used quite a bit for socket and network stuff, especially for people banging out exploit POCs because packet creation is simple with the pack() instructions.
21:43 comborico1611 But one thing I learned in dealing with these books in the last 9 months is that I definitely prefer a certain Style of writing.
21:44 comborico1611 Hmm. That's good to know, drforr
21:45 tadzik is it C itself that you have trouble with, or the math/algorithms involved?
21:46 DrForr The pointer stuff can be intimidating, Perl abstracts that away from you.
21:47 DrForr But of course if you haven't done much in C you won't know what I'm taling about.
21:48 comborico1611 I'm having problems with c because the layout of the book is topical based. the author does not hold your hand and introduce topics to you slowly. It is essentially a reference manual. In fact that's the title of the book. Lol
21:48 comborico1611 I could follow along with pointers in C plus plus. At least at a basic level.
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21:48 DrForr I haven't done C seriously for probably a decade, can't advise on books.
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21:49 comborico1611 If I know the fundamentals of perl 6, would I be able to get along and perl 5 if I needed to?
21:50 comborico1611 Along with" perl 5. Let me switch to an actual keyboard.
21:50 tadzik sure
21:50 tadzik it may seem weird at places ;)
21:50 teatime comborico1611: there's not really suuuper similar, nothing like python 2 vs. 3, but a lot of the coolest/nicest perl6 features have been backported to perl5 it seems like
21:50 teatime I don't really do perl5 or keep up w/ it these days
21:51 teatime comborico1611: warning:  you may find yourself getting along fine but constantly wishing it was perl6
21:51 teatime I seem to do that w/ every language now
21:51 tadzik I do Perl 5 mostly these days, and... exactly what teatime says
21:51 tadzik wishing it was perl 6
21:52 DrForr When I teach Perl6 I find that I have to explain "yes, it's quite a bit different than how 5 does it."
21:52 El_Che You loose a lot of built-in perl6 features, you win order of magnitudes in modules
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21:53 tadzik and quite a bit of performance :)
21:53 DrForr El_Che: But we have Inline::Perl5 to bridge the gap :)
21:53 El_Che DrForr: while I appreciate the smart people that did that, no :)
21:54 El_Che you don't want to manage 2 chains of dependencies
21:56 tadzik . o O ( I wish I only had 2 chains to manage :P )
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21:57 DrForr Nod, I've been having trouble coming up with a good migration strategy.
21:57 El_Che this weak I hit a perl5 problem, that reminded me of perl6 weak points: deployment
21:57 El_Che week
21:58 El_Che I was migrating a perl 5 project to docker. Part of the migration is using Hashicorp's Vault for storing secrets. Because it's not a inhouse soft, the most plausible option was writing a wrapper that queries Vault en injects the secrets
21:58 El_Che I wrote the thing in Perl 5 and it had more dependencies that the actual soft we were running
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21:59 El_Che so with pain in my heart I started rewriting the wrapper in go
21:59 teatime my personal site / ssg involves ruby, javascript, haskell, may soon adopt some Lua, hrm.. I think I eliminated python
21:59 teatime considering adding perl6 :)
21:59 El_Che teatime: we have a small perl6 project in production. Want to migrate to docker soon as well :)
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22:00 teatime I installed docker, which upon apt-get install, makes a network bridge and assigns it an address from a subnet it hopes you're not using, 172.0.0.1 ... which happens to be my LAN subnet and gateway IP
22:01 teatime I'm like, "how the heck is docker getting my default route IP and then why is it making it the bridge iface addr", but no, it was just bad luck / coincidence
22:01 teatime sorry, 172.17.0.1
22:01 El_Che teatime: I suspect it's the distro's fault
22:01 El_Che I don't know if it's harcoded
22:01 teatime well it's the docker project's packages, it's not in debian's repos
22:01 El_Che (all the tutorials point to that though)
22:02 El_Che we're having good results with docker + ipv6
22:02 El_Che all the ipv4 iptables+forwarder magic disappears
22:02 teatime it would also be nice if you could change just that property of the docker network, but it seems I have to delete it and re-create it from scratch.
22:02 comborico1611 Teatime, thanks for the info!
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22:04 teatime yvw
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22:43 samcv m: <a ab bc ad ba>.comb(/\S*a\S*/).say
22:43 camelia rakudo-moar d6cd0d2f5: OUTPUT: «(a ab ad ba)␤»
22:43 samcv m: <a ab bc ad ba>.comb(m/\S*a\S*/).say
22:43 camelia rakudo-moar d6cd0d2f5: OUTPUT: «Use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context.␤Methods .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can be used to stringify it to something meaningful.␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤Cannot resolve caller comb(Str: Nil); none of these signatures…»
22:43 samcv is this supposed to work? there's a roast test that's skipped
22:43 samcv my first thought is to say that the test is wrong, but maybe someone else can confirm/deny that
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23:34 TimToady samcv: no, that shouldn't work, since m// matches against $_ before ever .comb is called
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23:46 El_Che \o/ <-- I finally have rakudo alpine packages. Important addition for containers
23:47 El_Che still some small stuff to fix before release
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