Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-11-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:59 comborico1611 Pong
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02:18 wander m: use MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL;say EVAL("=begin pod\n=item 42\n=end pod\n\$=pod");
02:18 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «[Pod::Block::Named{:name("pod")}␤  Pod::Item{:level("1")}␤    Pod::Block::Para␤      42␤]␤»
02:18 wander m: use MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL;say EVAL("=begin pod\n=head 42\n=end pod\n\$=pod");
02:18 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «[Pod::Block::Named{:name("pod")}␤  Pod::Block::Named{:name("head")}␤    Pod::Block::Para␤      42␤]␤»
02:19 wander m: use MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL;say EVAL("=begin pod\n=head1 42\n=end pod\n\$=pod");
02:19 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «[Pod::Block::Named{:name("pod")}␤  Pod::Heading{:level("1")}␤    Pod::Block::Para␤      42␤]␤»
02:19 wander m: use MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL;say EVAL("=begin pod\n=code 42\n=end pod\n\$=pod");
02:19 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «[Pod::Block::Named{:name("pod")}␤  Pod::Block::Code␤    42␤␤␤]␤»
02:19 wander why some of these guys' contents are 'Pod::Block::Para'?
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02:21 wander when using `=headn` or `=item`, i want a one line head/item
02:22 wander especially, we provide classes `Pod::Heading` and `Pod::Item` for them
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02:22 wander however, we treat their contents as `Pod::Block::Para`
02:26 wander https://github.com/perl6/Pod-To-HTML/blob/0ae43c1fd1c07fac0aafdbc2f074c2b6a8bd6489/lib/Pod/To/HTML.pm#L214-L239
02:26 wander that is why we have to use `:$inside-heading` to check if a Para is inside a Heading
02:26 wander too tricky
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02:55 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:59 wander well, to recursively deal with pod-code, it's good to pack them into a Pod::Block::Sth
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03:22 comborico1611 Goodnight, guys!
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04:43 ZzZombo Explain, please:
04:43 ZzZombo m: say (1,2).any > 0
04:43 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «any(True, True)␤»
04:43 ZzZombo m: say (1,2).any != 0
04:43 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «True␤»
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04:52 wander someone have talked about it
04:52 wander ZzZombo: (1,2).any != 0
04:52 wander equals
04:53 wander !((1,2).any == 0)
04:53 wander m: say !((1,2).any == 0)
04:53 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «True␤»
04:53 wander that's the problem
04:53 wander ! is a metaop here
04:54 wander m: [1,2,3,4,5,6].map(*.say)
04:54 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤»
04:55 wander timotimo: can i assume when `map` applies on an *Array*, it applies from left to right?
04:55 wander that is, by how Array iterates
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05:28 AlexDaniel wander: yes, if you're convinced that it is an array
05:29 AlexDaniel wander: if there's a chance that it might be a HyperSeq then you can't assume that
05:29 AlexDaniel m: sub foo($a) { say WHAT $a }; foo <a b c>.hyper
05:29 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «(HyperSeq)␤»
05:29 wander thank you
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06:21 dominix hi
06:23 dominix may someone gime me a hint on "were and how does perl6 compile bytecode to ?" i didn't catch on rakudo.org.
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06:24 dominix perl5 compile source code to ast and then directly execute it.
06:25 dominix went does perl6 compile ? every time ? or just one time ? were in the bytecode ?
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08:29 wander how to test if an object has a special method?
08:29 wander A.new.has-method("method-name")
08:29 wander something like ^^
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08:31 wander dd c[0].^find_method("config"); works(?)
08:32 moritz m: say Int.^can('sqrt')
08:32 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «(sqrt sqrt)␤»
08:32 moritz m: say so Int.^can('sqrt')
08:32 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «True␤»
08:32 moritz m: say so Int.^can('fasel')
08:32 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «False␤»
08:36 wander gotcha
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08:39 wander BTW, how `--doc=...` works? if i directly invoke `render`, render runs once; but by `--doc=...`, it runs some times.
08:39 kekko bn giorno
08:39 kekko !list
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09:13 ZzZombo m: say 'asd'.((^100).pick >= 50 ?? "succ" !! "pred")()
09:13 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «No such method 'CALL-ME' for invocant of type 'Str'␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:13 ZzZombo ??
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09:18 parv ZzZombo, don't you have to define "succ|pred" method to be able to call? Or, am i missing something?
09:18 ZzZombo They are already defined.
09:18 parv ok
09:18 ZzZombo m: 'asd'.pred.say
09:18 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «asc␤»
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09:31 wander ZzZombo:
09:31 wander m: say 'asd'."$_"() given ((^100).pick >= 50 ?? "succ" !! "pred")
09:31 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «asc␤»
09:32 ZzZombo great, thanks! Clever :)
09:32 wander anyway, it's not macro expanding, but parsing
09:33 wander s/anyway/after all/
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10:29 Anthony_ Hey folks, I tried to port a simple K (APL derivative) one-liner (`primes:{1+&2=+/~(1+!x)!\:/:1+!x}`) to Perl 6 and my P6 solution is much much slower (and more verbose). Do you know how I could fix any of this issues? `sub primes($n){grep {2 == [+] $_ <<%%<< (1..$n)}, 1..$n}`
10:30 moritz m: sub primes($n) { (2..$n).grep(*.is-prime) }; say primes(50)
10:30 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «(2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47)␤»
10:31 Anthony_ moritz. Yeah that would of course work with a very high probability
10:31 Anthony_ but I'm trying to transcribe the algorithm
10:31 Anthony_ there are waaaay better ways to calc primes
10:31 Anthony_ so it's really the procedure that matters for me
10:32 moritz I don't see anything obviously wrong with your Perl 6 translation
10:32 Anthony_ okay
10:32 Anthony_ I can understand why Perl6's performance is worse in this case
10:32 Anthony_ it is obviously not tuned for that style
10:32 Anthony_ but I thought there might be some fundamental issue with this
10:33 moritz and if you are chasing characters, you can replace << with «
10:33 Anthony_ the only real-world language with heavy use of unicode :)
10:33 Anthony_ I love it :D
10:33 moritz :-)
10:34 Anthony_ thank you :)
10:34 Anthony_ Do you know the X hyperop?
10:35 Anthony_ because I tried using it, but it always flats the result
10:35 Anthony_ m: (1..10) X+ (1..10)
10:35 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «Potential difficulties:␤    Useless use of X+ in sink context␤    at <tmp>:1␤    ------> 3(1..10) 7⏏5X+ (1..10)␤»
10:35 Anthony_ ups
10:35 moritz m: say  it, but it always flats the result
10:35 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routines:␤    always used at line 1␤    but used at line 1. Did you mean 'put'?␤    flats used at line 1. Did you mean 'flat', 'last'?␤    it used at line 1␤    result used at line …»
10:35 moritz ups :-)
10:35 Anthony_ :D
10:35 moritz m: dd (1..10) X+ (1..10)
10:35 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «(2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 9, 10…»
10:36 Anthony_ yeah
10:36 Anthony_ is there a way to get a list of lists out of that?
10:36 moritz m: dd (1..10) X, (1..10)
10:36 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «((1, 1), (1, 2), (1, 3), (1, 4), (1, 5), (1, 6), (1, 7), (1, 8), (1, 9), (1, 10), (2, 1), (2, 2), (2, 3), (2, 4), (2, 5), (2, 6), (2, 7), (2, 8), (2, 9), (2, 10), (3, 1), (3, 2), (3, 3), (3, 4), (3, 5), (3, 6), (3, 7), (3, 8), (3, 9), (3, 10), (4, 1),…»
10:36 Anthony_ m: dd (1..10) X (1..10)
10:36 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «((1, 1), (1, 2), (1, 3), (1, 4), (1, 5), (1, 6), (1, 7), (1, 8), (1, 9), (1, 10), (2, 1), (2, 2), (2, 3), (2, 4), (2, 5), (2, 6), (2, 7), (2, 8), (2, 9), (2, 10), (3, 1), (3, 2), (3, 3), (3, 4), (3, 5), (3, 6), (3, 7), (3, 8), (3, 9), (3, 10), (4, 1),…»
10:36 Anthony_ cool
10:36 moritz m: dd (1..10).map({ $_ X+ 1..10})
10:36 camelia rakudo-moar 86e9f44ae: OUTPUT: «((2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11).Seq, (3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12).Seq, (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13).Seq, (5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14).Seq, (6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15).Seq, (7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16).Seq, (8, 9, …»
10:37 Anthony_ that's nice
10:37 moritz that's a way to get it non-flat
10:37 Anthony_ thanks
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10:39 Anthony_ honestly, I think Perl 6 brings TIMTOWTDI to a whole new level...
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13:21 HoboWithAShotgun https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47248329/how-to-refer-to-previously-matched-items-in-a-grammar good|bad|incomplete advice?
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13:54 * HoboWithAShotgun gets naked and roams around the channel, as nobody is looking anyway
14:02 * moritz added an answer with a slightly different perspective
14:07 MasterDuke moritz: the syntax highlighting in your answer got messed up
14:09 moritz seems somebody fixed it already
14:11 piojo sorry :)
14:12 moritz no reason to apologize
14:12 moritz piojo++
14:12 piojo moritz: And thanks for the thorough answer. I could have told how to access the data in that method, but I couldn't have eloquently explained why the approach was wrong.
14:15 masak moritz++ # eloquent
14:17 moritz piojo: you're welcome
14:18 moritz btw, last week I attened a three-day workshop on software architecture from Neal Ford (one of the technical leaders at ThoughtWorks)
14:19 moritz it was quite good, I can really recommend that course
14:19 moritz https://sddconf.com/software_architecture_fundamentals/
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14:51 piojo Is the <name>++ thing a competition of who helps the most people?
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14:55 moritz not a competition, more a show of appreciation
14:56 moritz we used to track "karma" from the ++ mentions too, but the bot died long ago
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15:08 piojo moritz: I see, then it's a slang from an old tradition
15:08 piojo rather, a slang that is an old tradition
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16:33 * moritz annoyed by Apress
16:33 moritz for example, I present two expressions to demonstrate the usage :g
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16:34 moritz m: say '1  2  3'.subst(:g, /\s+/)
16:34 camelia rakudo-moar 38f51db9f: OUTPUT: «Cannot resolve caller subst(Str: Regex, :g); none of these signatures match:␤    (Str:D $: Str:D $original, Str:D $final, *%options)␤    (Str:D $: $matcher, $replacement, *%options)␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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16:34 moritz m: say '1  2  3'.subst(:g, /\s+/, '')
16:34 camelia rakudo-moar 38f51db9f: OUTPUT: «123␤»
16:34 moritz m: say '1  2  3'.subst( /\s+/, '')
16:34 camelia rakudo-moar 38f51db9f: OUTPUT: «12  3␤»
16:34 moritz and they simply remove the whitespace from the second example output
16:35 moritz and they screw up the vertical alignment of curly braces in some of the examples
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16:36 moritz and earlier, I briefly mention the difference between "doit(1, 2, 3)" and "doit (1, 2, 3)", except that they also remove the blank before the parenthesis list in the second example
16:36 moritz rendering the whole sentence meaningless
16:37 moritz I'll self-publish my next book, should there be one. I prefer correct & medicore typesetting over wrong & beautiful typesetting
16:39 AlexDaniel \o/
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16:52 jdv79 AlexDaniel: how long does it take for repro for you?
16:52 jdv79 i ran it for 10mins with no issues
16:53 AlexDaniel jdv79: about 10 seconds
16:53 AlexDaniel you sure the output is still changing after 10 minutes?
16:53 AlexDaniel jdv79: fwiw it wasn't just one commit that addressed the issue, there were many changes done by lizmat++
16:53 AlexDaniel the situation improved *a lot*
16:54 AlexDaniel but it is still not fully resolved
16:54 jdv79 yeah, it was changing.  i was running it next to a heavy conc app for load.
16:55 jdv79 weird.  my original real world code that indirectly spawned that ticket is resolved...
16:55 jdv79 probably cause they aren't the same.  I thought the golf used for gh1202 wasn't the same as my issue
17:02 jdv79 ok, i got it to break by running more load
17:07 Geth ¦ doc: ea1a64a6ab | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
17:07 Geth ¦ doc: nbsp
17:07 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ea1a64a6ab
17:07 Geth ¦ doc: 5dae820a29 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | type-graph.txt
17:07 Geth ¦ doc: remove class that requires "use"
17:07 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/regexes
17:07 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5dae820a29
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17:51 Geth ¦ doc/master: 5 commits pushed by (Will "Coke" Coleda)++
17:51 Geth ¦ doc/master: 0fa04afc85 | Pass more example compilation tests
17:51 Geth ¦ doc/master: 7f8cf1369e | fix signatures
17:51 Geth ¦ doc/master: 1aa7e072b6 | pass compilation tests
17:51 Geth ¦ doc/master: 1e7be66bef | simplify, avoid word giving spellcheck fits
17:51 Geth ¦ doc/master: 31b25dba6a | learn new words
17:51 Geth ¦ doc/master: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/5dae820a29...31b25dba6a
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19:50 AlexDaniel is there any way to .round a FatRat without getting a Num back? I'm trying to keep FatRats reasonably fast
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19:59 HoboWithAShotgun i don't think so. but maybe ask in #math?
20:03 moritz should be possible with simple arithmetic and coercing to Int
20:04 moritz if you want to round to 1e-9, you have to do FatRat.new(($number * 1_000_000_000).Int, 1_000_000_000)
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21:13 HoboWithAShotgun i'm writing some perl5 code and already miss at least 4 features
21:14 El_Che crybaby :)
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21:18 * moritz writes p5 for $dayjob, and knows that feeling very well
21:18 moritz one thing I really miss is the :$thing shortcut for thing => $thing
21:18 moritz and sane OO out-of-the-box
21:19 moritz and named lexical (inner) subs
21:19 moritz and slurp and spurt built-in
21:20 moritz and sort with Schwartzian Transform built in
21:20 moritz and ... the list goes on :-)
21:23 raschipi Not having to remember what operates on $_ by default for me.
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21:37 HoboWithAShotgun i mean, isn't this jus t ugly? http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1203229#1203238
21:37 HoboWithAShotgun compared to how i'd write it in 6
21:38 xi- well, perl 5 is notorious for being ugly
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22:10 raschipi xi-: he meant in the way that perl5 is similar to ther languages there. They're even uglier.
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22:26 comborico1611 Pong
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