Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-11-18

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:39 comborico1611 Pong
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01:01 timotimo tyil: i recommend you use the deletion feature of pause so that we can all forget that existed
01:01 timotimo deleted files are kept on another page, i believe
01:01 timotimo still.
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02:54 Geth ¦ doc: 0964f8ea77 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/concurrency.pod6
02:54 Geth ¦ doc: edit tweaks
02:54 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/concurrency
02:54 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0964f8ea77
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02:55 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
02:56 timotimo just misses a decont i reckon
02:56 timotimo will take a bit for me to recompile and test
02:57 timotimo the change might even make it into the release
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03:00 ZzZombo I don't see how can my encoder access the options passed to `encoder` call of my encoding.
03:01 timotimo you take that parameter in your encoder method and pass it on to the constructor of your encoder
03:02 timotimo for example method encoder(*%opts) { Encoding::UCS2.new(*%opts) }
03:02 ZzZombo ah
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03:03 Herby_ o/
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03:04 Herby_ \o/
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03:13 timotimo ZzZombo: i pushed a fix to rakudo, and a test to roast. if our release manager doesn't object to it, it'll be in the next release i think
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04:13 ZzZombo wow, that's a lot of functions in Encoding::Decoder, what should I do with them, timotimo?
04:13 ZzZombo Also grats on the fix.
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06:34 ZzZombo Alternatively, how could I delegate decoding to the built-in UTF-16 decoder?
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08:12 eugene_barsky hi
08:13 ZzZombo hi
08:14 eugene_barsky On one of my laptops REPL startup takes long time — several times longer than on the other, which is similar in terms of hardware. What can be the reason and what the solution? My system: Kubuntu 17.10, perl6 2017.10 (but the problem was present on the previous version as well)
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10:23 Geth ¦ doc: e67b027957 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
10:23 Geth ¦ doc: fix spelling
10:23 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e67b027957
10:23 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/glossary
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10:47 sjn o/
10:47 * sjn looked at the new Perl 6 brochure. Really nice! :)
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11:04 * lizmat waves from T-Dose
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11:47 moritz sjn: link?
11:58 ZzZombo <ZzZombo> wow, that's a lot of functions in Encoding::Decoder, what should I do with them, timotimo?
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12:07 gfldex eugene_barsky: Rakudo may scan some directories for modules. strace might help.
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12:07 blakers gm perl6ers
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12:18 eugene_barsky gfldex: thanks, I'll try.
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12:29 ___luke___ Hello, I'm trying to golf a bit of Perl 6 code down to less than 95 bytes. Does someone know another trick I could use? Here's my code (now 107 bytes): say "   .-@@-.";say " "x(($_-2.5).abs+|0)~($_+>2??'\/'x(9-$_)!!(<= - = _>[$_]x((6,8)[$_]||10),).gist)for ^9
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14:03 comborico1611 Greetings
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14:04 masak comborico1611: ahoj
14:05 comborico1611 Ahoj?
14:09 comborico1611 Ship ahoy.
14:09 comborico1611 You Czech?
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14:47 lizmat no, masak is suite
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15:14 Ulti the thing missing from code golf is elegance and readability
15:14 Ulti the competition sites should all have beauty or something as a community defined metric
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15:22 timotimo http://act.yapc.eu/lpw2017/talk/7213 - should we tell them to maybe not use rakudobrew?
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15:47 lizmat timotimo: I'll probably attend that, so I will mention :-)
15:47 lizmat perhaps even catch Lance before he gives his talk
15:48 timotimo i can tweet at them
15:55 lizmat timotimo: by all means, tweet!  :-)
15:55 lizmat .oO( fewer things to remember to do once in London for me )
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16:02 timotimo https://twitter.com/loltimo/status/931915416514985984 - i hope this formulation doesn't come off as rude or anythign
16:05 tadzik so how about we rewrite rakudobrew into something meant for end-users and rebrand a tool for devs into something else?
16:05 tadzik if Perl 6 has taught us anything it's that once people learn what a name is they never unlearn it, even if they weren't right in the first place
16:06 timotimo haha
16:06 timotimo good point
16:06 El_Che tadzik: you're concentrated evil ;)
16:07 tadzik I solve practical problems :P
16:07 tadzik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNgNBsCI4EA
16:08 tyil there's no perl6 cloak available on freenode, is there?
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16:08 tadzik oh, cloaks! I haven't heard of that thing in a while :)
16:08 timotimo if someone does the paperwork, i'll take one as well
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16:18 tyil I'm not sure how much work would be involved, but there's an ircop in another channel I'm in, I can just ask :>
16:19 timotimo you mean the one who starts with m and ends in st? :)
16:36 ZzZombo timotimo: help with writing decoder is appreciated, it's the last thing that holds me back.
16:36 timotimo right, the decoder is a bit more complicated because we really want to be able to deal with partial data coming in
16:37 timotimo i thought you only needed an encoder
16:37 timotimo however, you're relatively in luck. you don't have to deal with variable width data pieces at all; everything is 16 bit units all the time, and you don't even have to support surrogates!
16:38 ZzZombo Well, it would complicate having to encode/decode using different encodings.
16:38 timotimo oh, you mean switch in between?
16:39 ZzZombo No, I'm answering your previous line
16:39 ZzZombo <timotimo> i thought you only needed an encoder
16:39 timotimo right, i thought you were only taking data in, never writing data back out into this horrible horrible format :)
16:40 ZzZombo I could use UTF-16 encoding to read files, and write using my custom UCS-2 encoding, but that's a terrible mess then of a code to support.
16:42 timotimo i can't help terribly much, need to rest my wrists for RSI reasons
16:43 ZzZombo I could help if you could tell me if it's possible to write an decoder that would just delegate decoding to the built-in UTF-16 decoder.
16:43 ZzZombo It*
16:43 timotimo oh
16:43 timotimo well, yes of course it is :)
16:43 timotimo method decoder(*%options) { return Encoding::Registry.find("utf16").decoder(*%options) }
16:44 ZzZombo wow
16:44 timotimo something like that
16:44 ZzZombo and here I am, preparing myself to write a dozens of lines for that.
16:45 ZzZombo the asterisk isn't needed in the `decoder` call, is it?
16:46 timotimo it expects options to be passed as individual named parameters, not a single hash
16:46 ZzZombo ah
16:47 ZzZombo I thought it's what Slip for
16:47 ZzZombo haven
16:47 timotimo er
16:47 timotimo sorry, yes, it is
16:47 ZzZombo oops
16:52 timotimo i'll be AFK for a bit; i hope you'll succeed in your codec business
16:53 ZzZombo yea, thanks a lot!
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17:26 ZzZombo timotimo: I've registered my encodings, but when attempting to use one it dies with "unknown string encoding ucs-2le", even tho `Encoding::Registry.find('ucs-2le').say` does find it.
17:41 timotimo ZzZombo: can you give me your code to experiment with?
17:43 timotimo ZzZombo: that is very strange, because the find method is the only place in the whole core setting that can throw that exception
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17:44 ZzZombo will do, wait up
17:54 ZzZombo timotimo: https://gist.github.com/ZzZombo/e78cad56722eda7f9fe8f40b33ad6bb5
17:56 timotimo if you turn your BUILD into a TWEAK you won't have to re-write all the default values in the signature
17:58 ZzZombo done.
18:00 timotimo huh. well, that's certainly wrong.
18:02 timotimo for now just pass the encoding object to :enc instead, does that work?
18:02 timotimo actually it doesn't seem to work?
18:04 ZzZombo Malformed UTF-8 at line 1 col 1
18:04 ZzZombo in sub MAIN at encode.p6 line 101
18:05 timotimo it ignores anything but Str passed to enc, and it doesn't seem to look at the registry at all
18:06 ZzZombo huh
18:07 timotimo i'm afraid you might have to use the decoder API directly here
18:07 timotimo or since you're just slurping put "utf16" instead
18:09 ZzZombo you mean in the meantime? Until it's fixed?
18:09 ZzZombo whenever that will be
18:09 timotimo yeah
18:10 timotimo the next release is like today
18:10 timotimo so a fix likely won't make it in
18:10 ZzZombo last resort, I'll do it, sigh
18:10 ZzZombo so much for this though
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18:12 timotimo might be enough to nqp::decode(nqp::decont($myblob, Encoding::Registry.find("foobar"))
18:14 timotimo ugh, we don't have a streaming decoder implementation for utf16
18:14 timotimo setting the encoder properly seems to be set up for IO.open, but not for slurp and friends
18:14 timotimo and also not for Blob.decode and such
18:15 timotimo Str.encode on the other hand does query the registry
18:18 timotimo or maybe the fix is so blatantly easy that i can just commit it right soon
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18:19 timotimo hackety hack …
18:20 ZzZombo That would be best, not the hack, but fixing it.
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18:31 timotimo i'm not making much progress, and i've gotta go again
18:33 jstuder Hey all. I have a question regarding the docs. In the "Truncating slices" section of /Language/subscripts it says that using a Range will truncate the output to only defined elements. But this is not currently the case in Rakudo.
18:33 jstuder Is this a bug in Rakudo or an error in the docs? I can't find it in the specs or roast.
18:34 jnthn m: my @a = 1..10; say @a[5..15]
18:34 camelia rakudo-moar 149ed2429: OUTPUT: «(6 7 8 9 10 (Any) (Any) (Any) (Any) (Any) (Any))␤»
18:34 jnthn m: my @a = 1..10; say @a[5..*]
18:34 camelia rakudo-moar 149ed2429: OUTPUT: «(6 7 8 9 10)␤»
18:34 jnthn It's only true for ranges with a * or Int endpoint
18:34 jnthn And the general rule is that lazy = truncate, non-lazy = don't
18:34 jnthn m: my @a = 1..10; say @a[lazy 5..15]
18:34 camelia rakudo-moar 149ed2429: OUTPUT: «(6 7 8 9 10)␤»
18:34 jstuder yeah. the docs say it is the case for all ranges
18:34 jnthn Yeah, that's not right
18:35 jstuder ok i'll open an issue in the repo and can change that in the docs.
18:35 jstuder thanks for the clarification
18:38 jstuder I can add a new test in the roast as well to make it explicit that Non-lazy ranges/iterable means the potential of undefined elements
18:42 jnthn I'm pretty sure there are some there
18:42 jnthn I remember implementing these semantics (truncate if lazy, don't otherwise)
18:42 jstuder Ok, but if not, I'll add them.
18:43 jnthn The issue with ranges always truncating was things like @a[^10] = 1..10; on an empty @a would become a no-op :)
18:43 jnthn Sure, please add any for things you feel aren't sufficiently covered :)
18:44 AlexDaniel jstuder++
18:44 jstuder Oh I see. yeah that would be a problem. I'll try to get all that in the docs
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20:28 tyil timotimo: I didnt know mst was fnode staff until now
20:29 tyil but I know another guy who specifically deals with handing out cloaks
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20:29 tyil he told me to send an email with the request
20:29 tyil so I did
20:29 tyil he tells me there's a perl cloak already available, so he cant just hand out the perl6 cloak, it would probably take a day
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20:41 poohman hello all
20:41 poohman java.nio.file.NoSuchFileException: blib/Perl6/BOOTSTRAP.jar
20:42 poohman this comes up when I try to use perl6-j
20:42 poohman perl6-m works fine
20:43 poohman I compiled rakudo with both backends
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20:44 bartolin poohman: hmm, what version of rakudo ddid you compile?
20:45 poohman did a git clone today
20:45 poohman let me check
20:45 poohman This is Rakudo version 2017.10-211-g2f0da94c3 built on JVM
20:45 poohman implementing Perl 6.c.
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20:46 bartolin the jvm backend has a lot of issues, unfortunately. but it shouldn't fail like that ...
20:46 bartolin do you get the same error if you run ./perl6-j -e '' in the directory where you build it?
20:47 poohman let me try
20:48 bartolin there definitely is an issue with 'make test' (which uses the EvalServer) before executing 'make install'. it fails with the same error, see https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=132101
20:52 bartolin poohman: I've run a spectest with a perl6-j just one commit older than yours. there are failing tests, but most things work fine.
20:53 poohman ./perl6-j -e 'say "Hello"' works in the rakudo source folder
20:53 poohman even perl6-j -e 'say Hello"' works
20:54 bartolin ah, good. and what caused the above error (NoSuchFileException)?
20:54 poohman should I include the source folder in the PATHand try? to get the blib folder in
20:54 poohman ?
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20:59 bartolin after running 'make install' that shouldn't be necessary. could you gist the code that triggers the error? maybe that rings a bell with me.
21:02 poohman https://paste.gnome.org/prdbbzp9z
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21:03 poohman i had just used zef to install the modules
21:03 poohman should I use zef-j also?
21:04 bartolin last time i looked, zef did not work with perl6-j :-( I haven't tried in a while, though ...
21:06 poohman i found something else
21:06 poohman ~/source/rakudo/install/bin/perl6-j -e 'say "Hello"'
21:06 poohman gives the same error
21:08 poohman ~/source/rakudo/perl6-j -e 'say "hello"'
21:08 poohman Error: Could not find or load main class perl6
21:09 poohman this happens when my PWD is not ~/source/rakudo/
21:09 poohman it works onlz when the PWD is ~/source/rakudo
21:12 bartolin poohman: yeah, i can reproduce it :/
21:13 poohman ok so I hopefully didnt botch the install up
21:14 poohman i tried the jvm backend only todaz
21:14 bartolin poohman: no, it just doesn't look at the right place (and that's a bug). the BOOTSTRAP.jar file should be in your install dir under share/nqp/lib/Perl6/
21:15 poohman ok
21:16 bartolin poohman: the jvm backend is in bad shape. you really should use the moar backend, if you want to use perl6 (instead of hunting bugs :-)
21:16 bartolin poohman: but this particular problem should be fixable. I'll take a closer look.
21:17 bartolin so, thanks for bringing this up!
21:18 poohman ok - was trying some clojure and scala - java interop was pretty easy - atleast in scala - but after seeing paul Phillips rants thought would be great if perl6 java interop worked
21:20 poohman will try to get stuff done via nativecalls in moar - thanks for your help
21:23 bartolin your welcome
21:29 bartolin poohman: it turns out there is a superfluous 'nqp-lib=blib' in the installed versions of 'perl6' and 'perl6-j'. removing that seems to help with finding BOOTSTRAP.jar. but as feared, installing zef fails after a while ...
21:33 poohman you mean you cant install zef after removing it or zef cant install modules?
21:37 bartolin poohman: i tried to install zef but it failed with a NullPointerException somewhere
21:37 poohman ok
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21:38 poohman zef works for me, zef-j fails with a serialization error - but ill leave the -j stuff alone for awhile :)
21:44 Geth ¦ whateverable: e9ccebadca | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | lib/Whateverable.pm6
21:44 Geth ¦ whateverable: Fix KB/MB bug, use Telemetry
21:44 Geth ¦ whateverable:
21:44 Geth ¦ whateverable: Issue #260.
21:44 Geth ¦ whateverable: review: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/commit/e9ccebadca
21:49 mst timotimo: btw the paperwork for cloaks is "ask me"
21:50 stmuk maybe we should learn from the Utimate OSS Marketeers
21:50 mst tyil: please as timotimo suggested talk to me rather than bothering other staffers, the perl6 group is already registered and I can give out cloaks w/in it
21:50 tyil mst: hi
21:50 stmuk https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Official-OpenBSD-6-2-CD-Set/253265944606
21:50 tyil kline told me to talk to you as well
21:51 tyil cool tho
21:51 tyil can I request such a cloak? :3
21:51 mst sending in a duplicate request and putting samcv's name on it without bothering to tell them you were doing that was not particularly good.
21:52 tyil I didnt put her name in it tho
21:54 * mst shrugs
21:55 mst it's so much easier if you listen to people in channel sending you to the right place :P
21:55 tyil that was past the time I contacted kline :(
21:55 mst also staff *don't* give out project cloaks, projects do
21:56 mst I just happen to be staff as well as perl+perl6 group contact
21:56 tyil I didnt know those things :(
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21:58 samcv i think i was busy and didn't understand what was going on as well, since i was fixing a release blocker and just sort of scanned the channel and didn't understand what wa sgoing on
21:59 mst yeah, it's all fine
21:59 mst however, given just yesterday we had
21:59 mst < ugexe> tyil: i would suggest removing the folder "perl6-nigger" from your distribution before uploading it to cpan (App-Cpan6-0.8.0.tar.gz)
21:59 mst I don't think I'll be offering tyil a perl6 affiliated cloak for the moment
22:00 mst anybody else who wants one is welcome to /msg me and ask
22:00 tyil :<
22:00 tyil that mistake was already fixed tho
22:00 simcop2387 i wouldn't mind one but i expect i should do something perl6 related first
22:00 mst simcop2387: I was assuming you'd want a perl cloak if any
22:01 simcop2387 probably but i don't think i care. came here since i got an alert in here because of so many spammers using that word it's on a hilight for me now.
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22:03 TEttinger cloak? https://i.imgur.com/9Ybgz.gif
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22:19 timotimo mst: cool, i'd like a cloak, what are the options?
22:21 mst perl6/name or if you have a commit bit to any of the core stuff perl6/developer/name but I'm also open to suggestions for what the middle bit could contain if you want something else
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23:25 timotimo timo@is/the/best/at/perl6 :P
23:26 timotimo i'd like a developer one please
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23:57 tbrowder what exactly is a “cloak?”
23:59 AlexDaniel https://freenode.net/kb/answer/cloaks

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