Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-12-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:15 lookatme o/
00:22 El_Che lo
00:30 lookatme lol
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00:45 lookatme m: say so 1 ~~ (Int, Str).all;  #`(Is < > equal)   say so 1 ~~ Int && 1 ~~ Str;
00:45 camelia rakudo-moar 8df8ce09c: OUTPUT: «False␤False␤»
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01:02 thou I did some more revision on the bug I've been fussing with, and reported it. It's interesting, the problem shows up with type names like Pod::Foo and IO::Foo, but not File::Foo or Test::Foo. So it's a class of built-in types only. https://gist.github.com/softmoth/c8e90a6e4eda72f732c9e49c5931e1b2
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01:07 Zoffix thou: I've seen tickets for similar (same?) issues: RT#130794 RT#130200
01:07 synopsebot RT#130794 [new]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130794 Cannot import a symbol from precomp if its namespace is occupied
01:07 Zoffix There might be more
01:07 synopsebot RT#130200 [new]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130200 [LTA] Error when attempting to use a package that has one of core namespaces in its name
01:09 Zoffix lookatme: yes, those are similar in meaning, except that Junctions are a hint to the compiler that it may use more than one thread to perform the calculation
01:09 lookatme Zoffix, thanks
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01:17 lookatme I wonder in this situation, is Perl6 will do short-circuit evaluation in Junction calculation ? like the logical operator && does ?
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02:24 bazzaar drat, wordpress ate my array assignment code line in the comment I added to bduggan's advent post,  it should have read  my @bricks = <ok split ok ok split ==== >; or even my @bricks=['ok', 'split', 'ok', 'ok', 'split', '===='];
02:25 bazzaar I can't edit it to clean it up :(
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02:30 bazzaar In the words of the Bonzo Dog Doodah Band, 'Sometimes you just can't win ..' :-)
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02:56 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:26 piojo If I implement .AT-KEY on a container class to allow assignment to empty elements (like @l[1, 3] = 0, 0; or my $elem := %h<x>; $elem = 0;), the right technique is to use a Proxy container for that, right?
03:27 piojo So if the value doesn't exist, .AT-KEY should return a proxy which, if assigned to, will write back into the data structure.
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03:38 Zoffix bazzaar, fixed
03:38 Zoffix Need to use HTML entities: &lt; &gt;
03:38 Zoffix piojo: unsure. In the core it's implemented using a secret mechanism (that will soonish go away) and not a Proxy
03:42 Zoffix lookatme: yes, currently it'll shortcurcuit: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/master/src/core/Junction.pm#L190-L197   But you shouldn't rely on it being executed in order or definitely short-circuited. I imagine that code will be more complex when Junctions will actually autothread, since we wouldn't want them to always autothread and there will need to be  a thing that figures out when threading is worth
03:42 Zoffix it, etc.
03:42 piojo Zoffix: thanks. If I go ahead with this, I'll try it with Proxy.
03:44 lookatme Zoffix, oh, I think all Junction not worth auto thread in most case :)
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04:07 Zoffix m: my @a = |((^500_000+3).map: * * 2), 2; say 1 == @a.race(:batch(@a/4)).grep(*.is-prime).elems; say now - INIT now
04:07 camelia rakudo-moar 475522824: OUTPUT: «True␤1.26688215␤»
04:07 Zoffix m: my @a = |((^500_000+3).map: * * 2), 2; say 1 == @a.grep(*.is-prime).elems; say now - INIT now
04:07 camelia rakudo-moar 475522824: OUTPUT: «True␤2.6217620␤»
04:07 Zoffix m: say 2.62/1.266
04:07 camelia rakudo-moar 475522824: OUTPUT: «2.069510␤»
04:08 Zoffix 2x boost for a `one` Junction for a half-mil `*.is-prime` computation :) So somecases are worth it
04:44 lookatme hmm, thanks
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05:17 lookatme m: react { whenever supply { emit 123; @ = (< 1 2 3 4 5 6 >.race.map(sub ($x) { emit $x; } ).list) } { .say } }
05:17 camelia rakudo-moar 9fd5042b8: OUTPUT: «123␤An operation first awaited:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Died with the exception:␤    A worker in a parallel iteration (hyper or race) initiated here:␤      in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤    Died at:␤        emit without…»
05:19 lookatme oh its different thread
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06:28 bazzaar Zoffix: thanks for editing the message, I'll try to remember about using the html entities. There's actually still a redundant one line message that ideally could be deleted, but I'm grateful for what you did.
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08:45 * lizmat clickbaits https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/12/11/2017-50-of-quasi-and-injectile/
08:45 yoleaux 11 Dec 2017 17:57Z <AlexDaniel> lizmat: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2017-12-11#i_15562338
08:46 lizmat argh, missed that cause of yoleaux absence, I guess
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08:53 AlexDaniel lizmat: just edit it in?
08:54 AlexDaniel when I was outside perl 6 community, I'd go through several weeklies once a month
08:55 AlexDaniel so I think that some edits a few hours later are totally ok
08:55 lizmat well, it's already 10+ hours later now
08:56 AlexDaniel so? :)
08:56 AlexDaniel maybe we should make a page with a list of this reports… hmmm
08:56 * AlexDaniel does it
08:57 lizmat AlexDaniel++
08:58 TEttinger what are quasi and injectile? I didn't see them in the bait
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09:01 TEttinger oh ok, 007
09:01 lizmat :-)
09:03 AlexDaniel reportable6: list
09:03 reportable6 AlexDaniel, https://gist.github.com/ad96cf9f9e3501246548f7ed7791e643
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09:10 AlexDaniel “You get full refunds if purchasing List.tail doesn't make you happy :-)” bwahahaha
09:11 AlexDaniel ( https://twitter.com/LearningPerl6/status/938890184736768007 )
09:12 lizmat :-)
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09:28 parv that sole full-refunds comment is a flippant response, serves only to turn people off. would have been better with (link to) explanation/details.
09:29 moritz humor only turns off people? really?
09:29 moritz it amused at least three people in this channel alone
09:30 parv that's great
09:31 moritz parv: anyway, join the conversation on twitter, post a link to the docs that explain how cheap or expensive it is
09:31 parv i would have if i knew about what- or where to find it
09:32 moritz parv: sure
09:33 lizmat fwiw, tail(*-N) iterates over the iterable and keeps the last N values it has seen, and starts producing these as soon as the original iterator is exhausted
09:33 lizmat so it will only ever keep N values in memory
09:39 DrForr_ The last I saw about that he was wishing tail() was actually cdr(), a suggestion that I kinda like but isn't in line with the purpose of the method.
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09:43 AlexDaniel … what does it even stand for
09:44 AlexDaniel I see that it's a lisp thing, but what's the idea behind naming it “car” and “cdr”?
09:44 DrForr_ Dates all the way back to the PDP-8, when you had an Address Register and Data Register.
09:45 DrForr_ (not that modern CPUs don't have separate registers, this was back when these were Big Deals.
09:45 DrForr_ So 'CAR' was the Contents of the Address Register, in other words what the head of the list referenced, and the Data Register was the pointer to the rest of the list.
09:46 moritz DrForr_++ # clearest explanation of these names I've seen yet
09:46 moritz so far, the best I've seen was "related to some register names"
09:46 DrForr_ I started on the PDP-8 :)
09:46 AlexDaniel ahhhh…
09:47 DrForr )
09:48 AlexDaniel by the way, why not $list[1..*] ?
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09:48 AlexDaniel I mean, when we compare it to $list.tail(*-1)
09:49 lizmat $list[*-1] will keep $list in memory and create a slice on that
09:49 lizmat which will probably mean everything is in memory twice, at the current state of things
09:50 * lizmat intends non-single element slices to always be Seqs
09:51 lizmat m: my @a = ^10; dd @a[1..*].WHAT   # so everything is in memory twice  :-(
09:51 camelia rakudo-moar 9fd5042b8: OUTPUT: «List␤»
09:51 lizmat which is a pity in the case of a "for @a[1..*]"
09:52 lizmat which would then reSeq the generated List, which could have been a Seq in the first place
09:52 AlexDaniel mhm tail seems to be at least twice faster, yeah
09:54 lizmat afk&
09:54 AlexDaniel releasable6: next
09:54 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in 4 days and ≈9 hours. No blockers. 0 out of 97 commits logged
09:54 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Details: https://gist.github.com/8e45d50f7d60dc282835b66f599aa3c3
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10:44 Geth ¦ doc: 43f06f9781 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/pod.pod6
10:44 Geth ¦ doc: fix typo
10:44 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/43f06f9781
10:44 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/pod
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10:52 Geth ¦ doc: e1acf03ec5 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/pod.pod6
10:52 Geth ¦ doc: add words directly from Synopsis 26
10:52 Geth ¦ doc:
10:52 Geth ¦ doc: Add info on configuration for delimited blocks.
10:52 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e1acf03ec5
10:53 scimon Am I missing something obvious? Is there a command line option to get the Pod for an installed module? Like perldoc?
10:53 scimon (Or is there a module for it?)
10:54 teatime p6doc ?
10:56 scimon See I thought that was a thing. I don't seem to have it though... I may have to look at my installation again. I was using rakudobrew, then moved to a nice PPA that Johnaton F was updating but it's not been updated since October. That was nice because it linked into the system updater. Hmmmm.
10:56 scimon Found it.
11:01 teatime there's packages
11:02 teatime that install a good build, into /opt
11:02 teatime https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases
11:03 teatime https://docs.perl6.org/syntax/INTRODUCTION
11:05 timotimo moritz: "I am very happy [...]. I hope you do too!" might want "are" instead of "do"?
11:07 moritz timotimo: thanks, updated
11:07 timotimo good post :)
11:07 moritz thanks!
11:11 timotimo jeez, the sudoku solver generates a 180 megabyte big profiler html blob
11:11 timotimo good thing i'll be writing that frontend to the sql profiler ...
11:15 timotimo ah, of course, it's deeply recursive
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11:19 scimon On some puzzles yes.
11:20 scimon The problem I have with the rakudo-pkg packages is you have to manually update them and I'm lazy. WAY too lazy.
11:22 scimon Having read all the books in the list bar the first and last (and I'm getting the last next week) I probably should review them. moritz++ for a good breakdown there :)
11:23 scimon (Meanwhile my ongoing plan to get paid to write Perl6 is getting traction :) )
11:25 scimon Meahwhile I need to learn how solr works. On the bright side the Cro::HTTP::Client lib is great for testing API's with.
11:30 AlexDaniel unicodable6: arrow
11:30 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+02C2 MODIFIER LETTER LEFT ARROWHEAD [Sk] (˂)
11:30 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+02C3 MODIFIER LETTER RIGHT ARROWHEAD [Sk] (˃)
11:30 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, 617 characters in total: https://gist.github.com/0fc9f483c5b8cec57f60f8786e67a612
11:32 AlexDaniel not enough!
11:33 AlexDaniel I loved ⌁ so much but then I realized that some fonts render it angled
11:35 AlexDaniel unicodable6: right arrow
11:35 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+02C3 MODIFIER LETTER RIGHT ARROWHEAD [Sk] (˃)
11:35 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+02F2 MODIFIER LETTER LOW RIGHT ARROWHEAD [Sk] (˲)
11:36 unicodable6 AlexDaniel, 217 characters in total: https://gist.github.com/59f6280504496db7397e4e6c16fb2083
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11:39 timotimo performance-wise, the sudoku solver spends rather a lot of time in signature binding and dispatchee selecting, which i believe is caused from junction autothreading
11:43 timotimo the busiest sub by far is find_best_dispatchee, spending 5_635_069 usec, followed by bind_one_param which spends 2_326_574 usec, then infix:<==>
11:45 timotimo infix:<==> from numeric (that's the proto i bet) has 7_097_826 usec inclusive time, but only 1_044_802 usec exclusive. add to that int's infix:<==> with 160_611 usec; that leads me to believe that dispatching the right version of infix:<==> over and over via autothread_junction is what causes all the find_best_dispatchee and bind_one_param work
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11:50 Voldenet scimon: Cro::HTTP::Client is decent, but I'd not say it's great
11:51 Voldenet there's seem to be many use cases docs don't cover, like using custom ca file
11:52 scimon Part of my issue in the past has been getting bitten by HTTPS requests and threading.
11:52 scimon (Which now I think about it I don't need for this)
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11:58 scimon caching the resluts of valid, full and complete speed up the solver... (Scimon... stop poking it).
12:00 timotimo is complete just full + valid?
12:01 timotimo also, invalidating with a single call to cell could do a quick check of only the impacted pieces of the puzzle
12:02 scimon It is
12:02 timotimo reset, of course, would have to do a full re-check if you don't want to calculate a diff and such
12:02 scimon I was so wedded to the complete junction because it was the first one I thought of.
12:02 scimon Bit the bullet.
12:02 scimon Deleting it.
12:02 timotimo it's beautiful. just rather slow :D
12:03 scimon And yeah I might change the cache cearing code.
12:03 scimon Version 1.1.1 will be on github soon.
12:03 scimon running on my local box mi6 test went from 14 seconds -> 8 seconds.
12:04 timotimo nice.
12:04 scimon Does && short circuit?
12:04 timotimo it does
12:05 scimon So self.full && self.valid will only check validity once the puzzle is full.
12:05 timotimo m: (say "hi" && 0) && (say "bye" && 1)
12:05 camelia rakudo-moar 83eac0e42: OUTPUT: «0␤1␤»
12:05 timotimo oops, heh
12:05 timotimo m: ((say "hi") && 0) && ((say "bye") && 1)
12:05 camelia rakudo-moar 83eac0e42: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤hi␤Useless use of constant integer 1 in sink context (line 1)␤»
12:05 scimon :D
12:06 scimon Anyway. The Valid junction is frankly even more bonkers. That's a nights sleep I'm not getting back.
12:06 timotimo okay, that's actually kind of hilarious
12:07 timotimo oh, probably just a stdout/stderr ordering issue?
12:07 timotimo m: ((note "hi") && 0) && ((note "bye") && 1)
12:07 camelia rakudo-moar 83eac0e42: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of constant integer 1 in sink context (line 1)␤hi␤»
12:07 timotimo OK, that makes more sense
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12:17 scimon timotimo : Just pusshed another change to github. Now it does smart cache clearing on a .cell call.
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12:19 scimon Wow... so "solving" an empty puzzle with yesterdays code on my machine took 22 seconds. With the updates today (mmm caching) down to 3 seconds.
12:19 scimon Weee.
12:20 scimon Right. going to ruslte up lunch and write the creator on my lunch break.
12:20 timotimo i wonder how expensive the repeated "$tx,$ty" concatenations are. compared to, say, having $tx*10+$ty, or having a two-dim array caching these strings
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12:35 scimon I'm terrible at picking the simplest way of doing things (as I see it) over the most efficient.
12:40 timotimo :)
12:41 timotimo wait, if you are bad at that, doesn't that mean that you accidentally do things the most efficient way? :)
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12:48 pochi I'm trying to use SetHash to generate a set of uniq objects (Points), how can I tell SetHash to key on something other than object reference?
12:49 timotimo implement a WHICH method for your Point class
12:52 pochi what should it return?
12:52 pochi an int?
12:52 timotimo s: Pair, "WHICH", \()
12:52 SourceBaby timotimo, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/4fca94743/src/core/Mu.pm#L26
12:53 timotimo we return ObjAt objects from those
12:53 timotimo you don't have to (or even should) use nqp:: ops for that, you can just ObjAt.new with a string
12:53 timotimo s: ObjAt, "new", \(Str:D)
12:53 SourceBaby timotimo, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/4fca94743/src/core/Mu.pm#L122
12:53 pochi ah
12:53 timotimo hm, huh?
12:54 timotimo s: ObjAt, "new", \(str)
12:54 SourceBaby timotimo, Sauce is at https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/4fca94743/src/core/Mu.pm#L122
12:54 timotimo that's strange
12:54 timotimo m: say ObjAt.new("1234")
12:54 camelia rakudo-moar 83eac0e42: OUTPUT: «1234␤»
12:54 timotimo m: say ObjAt.new("1234").perl
12:54 camelia rakudo-moar 83eac0e42: OUTPUT: «ObjAt.new("1234")␤»
12:54 timotimo it does work, but sourcery doesn't find it. must be about natives vs objects perhaps?
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12:55 ilmari m: (foo => 42).WHICH.say
12:55 camelia rakudo-moar 83eac0e42: OUTPUT: «Pair|Str|foo|Int|42␤»
12:56 ilmari m: (foo => 42).WHICH.WHAT.say
12:56 camelia rakudo-moar 83eac0e42: OUTPUT: «(ObjAt)␤»
12:56 pochi yay! I gets uniq values :-) thank you
13:03 scimon Righto. Releasing 1.1.1 and going to start work on the creator... new branch I think.
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13:18 buggable New CPAN upload: Game-Sudoku-1.1.1.tar.gz by SCIMON https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/S/SC/SCIMON/Perl6/Game-Sudoku-1.1.1.tar.gz
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13:56 timotimo Uncaught RangeError: Maximum call stack size exceeded
13:56 timotimo at JSON.parse (<anonymous>)
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14:27 Altreus Is there some concept that shortens an if-defined? I want to add an id to a URL if id is defined, but i want to include the extra / in that if-defined. $str ~ (defined $id ?? "/$id" !! '')
14:27 Altreus Sorry if that's not legit p6
14:28 Altreus Is there an idiomatic way of defining some "/$id" such that the whole concatenation collapses to no-op if id is not defined?
14:30 timotimo we hvae with and without
14:31 perlpilot Altreus: $str ~ ("/$id" with $id);
14:31 timotimo m: my $id; say "foobar" ~ ("/$id" with $id)
14:31 camelia rakudo-moar a82e0e7da: OUTPUT: «foobar␤»
14:31 timotimo m: my $id = 99; say "foobar" ~ ("/$id" with $id)
14:31 camelia rakudo-moar a82e0e7da: OUTPUT: «foobar/99␤»
14:31 Altreus Oh em gee
14:32 Altreus Arigato old bean
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14:34 ilmari my $id; ("/$id" with $id).WHAT.say
14:34 ilmari m: my $id; ("/$id" with $id).WHAT.say
14:34 camelia rakudo-moar a82e0e7da: OUTPUT: «(Slip)␤»
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14:37 Altreus I thought slip but my reading about it did not furnish me with a clear answer
14:38 Altreus Also, is there/what is the equivalent of requires in a p5 moose role?
14:38 Altreus "I'll use this method but i don't commit to an implementation"
14:38 timotimo m: role NeedsMeh { method meh { ... } }; class Oh does NeedsMeh { }
14:38 camelia rakudo-moar a82e0e7da: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Method 'meh' must be implemented by Oh because it is required by roles: NeedsMeh.␤at <tmp>:1␤»
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14:38 timotimo m: role NeedsMeh { method meh { ... } }; class Oh does NeedsMeh { method meh { "i has meh!" } }
14:38 camelia rakudo-moar a82e0e7da: ( no output )
14:39 Altreus So ... Is
14:39 Altreus is doing that?
14:39 timotimo yup
14:39 Altreus Oops, sorry, phone keyboard
14:39 Altreus Thanks again ^^
14:39 timotimo YW
14:42 Altreus It works
14:42 Altreus This is fun
14:42 Altreus Who dares make programming fun?
14:42 perlpilot Altreus: welcome to Perl 6  ;-)
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14:59 scimon One of the things I'm loving right now is learning new stuff.
14:59 scimon TIL with. :)
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15:33 AlexDaniel .oO( who dares make non-perl 6 programming non-fun? )
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15:45 tbrowder how often is docs website updated?
15:46 tbrowder i ask because my last doc change passed travis testing 4 hrs ago but i don’t see the change.
15:47 tbrowder on docs.perl6.org
15:47 moritz it should be faster than that
15:47 moritz https://docs.perl6.org/build-log/ has the logs
15:49 moritz https://docs.perl6.org/build-log/build-2017-12-12T11:05+00:00.log looks a bit unhappy
15:50 tbrowder yep, probably my input. i’ll try to remove some formatting
15:50 moritz thanks!
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15:58 Geth ¦ doc: 26c25f6290 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/pod.pod6
15:58 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/pod
15:58 Geth ¦ doc: remove formatting for now
15:58 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/26c25f6290
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16:06 timotimo fun. this web server got owned with a phishing thingie installed on it. it still has the source zipfile in the server's root %)
16:07 timotimo "got owned and a ... installed on it" i should say
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16:11 moritz most breaches are pretty unsophisticated
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16:31 Geth ¦ doc: 1c410ac942 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/pod.pod6
16:31 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/pod
16:31 Geth ¦ doc: change table to delimited block form
16:31 Geth ¦ doc:
16:31 Geth ¦ doc: remove :nested config key
16:31 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1c410ac942
16:36 timotimo yeah, i imagine there is a ginormous "long tail" of web servers that were forgotten or something that easily get themselves infected
16:37 mspo shell shock via cgi-bin/ is still around
16:37 mspo probably the easiest hack going
16:38 mspo just curl commands to web servers you find sitting around
16:40 timotimo oh, of course
16:40 timotimo how fun is it to win these servers back?
16:41 geekosaur the _really_ easiest is throwing that at random routers
16:41 geekosaur the cheapest ones are vxworks, but anyone who needs a bit more installs a linux-based firmwae... and then never updates it
16:43 mspo cloud hasn't been great for internet security at-large :)
16:43 geekosaur and, of course, since oyou've taken over a router, you've usually got access to multiple internal machines
16:43 geekosaur 'cloud', 'security', only usable with a 'not'
16:43 geekosaur *usable together
16:46 geekosaur (alt: "IoT" = insecurity of things)
16:47 Geth ¦ doc: 4f665f7622 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/pod.pod6
16:47 Geth ¦ doc: remove format code D, use C instead
16:47 Geth ¦ doc:
16:47 Geth ¦ doc: D may not yet be implemented
16:47 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4f665f7622
16:47 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/pod
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16:51 timotimo "IoT: the S stands for Security"
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17:28 tbrowder docs look good now
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17:51 thou AlexDaniel, I've responded to your questions on rakudo/rakudo#1300, thank you!
17:51 synopsebot RAKUDO#1300 [open]: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1300 Untwine Pod
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17:59 thou AlexDaniel, I'm just not sure how to coordinate communicating about rakudo + roast changes. But the test changes are prepped and ready to go.
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18:32 pochi could someone take a look at https://pastebin.com/PhWD1saG
18:33 pochi I'm getting this error which confuses me: Cannot look up attributes in a Point type object
18:34 pochi (calling is-close from main works, but calling it from BUILD seems to generate that error)
18:35 pochi oh, and I'm using rakudo star 2017.10
18:35 geekosaur during BUILD your object isn't fully constructed yet; you are calling a method on an undefined value
18:37 pochi ah, when I try to print $!p1 it is indeed empty
18:38 pochi so, what is the correct method for initializing $.is-short?
18:38 geekosaur also defining your own new is generally a bad idea
18:38 geekosaur you might want to use TWEAK, since it runs after object construction. see https://docs.perl6.org/language/objects#Object_Construction
18:39 pochi I see
18:39 pochi what's the purpose of BUILD?
18:39 geekosaur mostly, control over when superclass initialization takes place
18:41 pochi I use my own new to get my prefered interface for the class btw
18:41 geekosaur well, no. BUILDALL does that, BUILD has lower level control over object construction itself but can't do things with the partially constructed object (it may not have constructed superclasses fully yet iirc? this is up to BUILDALL)
18:41 geekosaur so TWEAK gives you the ability to make adjustments to a built object before it's returned from the constructor
18:42 geekosaur in partiuclar you don;t necessarily have any fields initialized at BUILD time, but do at TWEAK time
18:42 geekosaur for the full story, there's a page in the docs with more detail or you can inspect the default new and BUILDALL methods
18:42 perlpilot pochi: you could make your own method create(int $x, int $y) { Point.new( :$x, :$y ); } instead of making your own new  (just a thought)
18:43 pochi ah, but I want all classes to have the same constructor
18:43 pochi my new seems to work though, why shouldn't I use that method?
18:44 lizmat multi method new(Point:U: int $x, int $y) { self.new(:$x, :$y) }   # that should work, no ?
18:47 pochi if I try that I get: Default constructor for 'Point' only takes named arguments
18:50 perlpilot pochi: you should use whatever you want if it makes sense to you.  :-)
18:51 pochi at least I have to understand my own code :-)
18:51 perlpilot pochi: though I find it a little strange that you would want to be rid of the "normal" mechanism that's also a little more self-documenting:   Point.new( :x(1), :y(2) );
18:51 pochi ... and it's great if it works too :-)
18:52 pochi well, take the Line class then, I don't want a constructor with p1 and p2, feels unnatural
18:52 pochi also verbose for a Point/Line class
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18:53 pochi (p1 and p2 should probably be private as well, but then things didn't work)
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19:06 perlpilot pochi: point taken  ;)
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19:29 rindolf Perl's 30th birthday is next monday
19:40 thou I'm excited, I think I've fixed the ugly extra spacing in Pod::To::Text. No more spaces at end of lines or on blank lines in the output.... Simple patch, I'm just running a few more tests on it.
19:44 comborico1611 rindolf, interesting.
19:45 DrForr thou: I'm rewriting the test suite for Pod::To::BlogspotHTML as it happens.
19:47 thou DrForr, nice. I did a little on Pod::To::Markdown conversion to use TreeWalker. I think it might make sense for us both to do something like that independently (either using Pod::TreeWalker itself or making some other visitor implementation as needed), and then we can compare implementations and refactor so ::Text, ::HTML, ::Markdown, ::BlogspotHTML, etc. can DRY as much as possible.
19:48 DrForr Well, it's actually going to be both ::HTML and ::BlogspotHTML because I'm going to get subclassing working properly beforehand.
19:49 thou I think there's a lot of stuff that could even benefit being moved into core, but if we can get everything using a shared Pod::To::Generic, it'd be just about as good. I.e., put all the messy translations of confusing bits that show up in $=pod into a generic handler that all the Pod::To::* utilize.
19:50 thou BTW I have commit access on Pod::TreeWalker in case we want to continue to use it.
19:50 thou autarch would likely be happy to add you, too, I assume
19:51 DrForr I'm tempted to rewrite it because I already have to do some generic munging of <p/> tags.
19:52 * perlpilot had dreams of a Pod::To::LaTeX at one point ... maybe that will be more possible soonish?
19:52 DrForr And IIRC it is adding tags that I need to remove. I want to rewrite it to get rid of hte munging...
19:52 DrForr perlpilot: That's also on my list.
19:52 perlpilot DrForr: nice!
19:54 DrForr I'm by no means an expert, but I'd love to be able to throw docs into LaTeX and get better highlighting and typography.
19:55 perlpilot same here.  I was mainly dreaming about it for book publishing using Pod.  But like many things ... I got side tracked.
19:56 DrForr Well, that was kind of my target too, but the \listing modules out there are kind of awkward. I'd want to use a decent code listig module.
19:57 DrForr The problem is that $..$ is used for math mode, and that *does* get annoying.
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20:09 DrForr thou: I imagine autarch would hand me the author bit if I asked :)
20:10 DrForr Not that I want it.
20:11 thou :)
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20:18 DrForr perlpilot: You'll also want to check out latextemplates.com and the Legrand Orange book.
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21:01 [Coke] huh. vi was using 70% of my cpu
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21:01 timotimo benchable6: compare HEAD my $a; (^9 X ^9).map( -> ($x, $y) { $a++ }); say $a; ||| my $a; (^9 X ^9).flat.map(-> $x, $y { $a++ }); say $a;
21:01 benchable6 timotimo, starting to benchmark the 1 given commit
21:01 benchable6 timotimo, https://gist.github.com/99caf769b93eb6ccd22f0b7bbe278598
21:01 geekosaur closed a terminal window with it running? vim likes to go into a tailspin when stdin goes away unexpectedly
21:02 geekosaur (it's *supposed* catch it, save the edit buffer for -r, and exit)
21:02 timotimo benchable6: compare HEAD my $a; (^90 X ^90).map( -> ($x, $y) { $a++ }); say $a; ||| my $a; (^90 X ^90).flat.map(-> $x, $y { $a++ }); say $a;
21:02 benchable6 timotimo, starting to benchmark the 1 given commit
21:02 benchable6 timotimo, https://gist.github.com/25788b01599b86f109c4e218f7f2a16d
21:04 timotimo .tell scimon it might not be worth mutch, but (^9 X ^9).map(-> ($x, $y) { }) is noticably slower than (^9 X ^9).flat.map(-> $x, $y { }): https://gist.github.com/25788b01599b86f109c4e218f7f2a16d
21:04 yoleaux timotimo: I'll pass your message to scimon.
21:27 mspo [Coke]: coloring a big file?
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23:37 Zoffix What precisely does :node($/) do in QAST?
23:38 Zoffix Like in QAST::Var.new(:node($/), :name<Pair>, :scope<lexical>),
23:43 Zoffix ZofBot: *crickets*
23:43 ZofBot Zoffix, 'What do you mean?' 'Oh, come,' protested Jelliffe; 'there's no need to keep it up with me
23:45 thou Zoffix, what's the expected process for simple bug fixes like rakudo/rakudo#1307 ? Is there a regular process that ensures it'll get applied, or do I need to file a bug report or do something else?
23:45 synopsebot RAKUDO#1307 [open]: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1307 Drop extraneous spaces in code and table blocks
23:47 Zoffix thou: no strict process I'm aware of. Core devs usually just merge whenever they see notifications. Personally, I usually ignore codebase areas I'm unfamiliar with (like Pod). You could join #perl6-dev and remind about the PR awaiting to be merged once in a while, in hopes someone who knows what's up would merge :)
23:48 thou OK, thanks. I just didn't want to ignore an important step in the process if there is one.
23:51 MasterDuke thou: i think AlexDaniel has merged the last couple pod related PRs
23:52 thou Thanks
23:52 thou This one just fixes an annoyance I've had for probably 5 years.

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