Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-12-17

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 Herby_ MasterDuke: Ah, thanks
00:04 Herby_ Ulti: ++ on the advent calendar article
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01:13 RabidGravy just prepping the advent aricle to post lest anyone is getting nervous
01:22 RabidGravy there, advent article posted
01:22 Hotkeys \o/
01:23 RabidGravy it will be a miracle f there are fewer than ten typos as I went to the supermarket in the middle and had to had a few beers to revover ;-)
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01:33 RabidGravy So I avoided the bad paragraph break errors from last year, but there are some egregious typos and brainos, but I think I'll leave them as it entertains the language geeks ;-)
01:36 geekosaur typopotamuses?
01:38 RabidGravy :-O
01:38 RabidGravy (also quite ratted now)
01:39 RabidGravy can we move the "advent" to a different time of year, lots of time pressure in december ;-)
01:40 RabidGravy that's https://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2017/12/17/something-about-messaging-but-i-couldnt-think-of-a-snappier-title/ if you want to get in early
02:01 Herby_ .tell RabidGray ++
02:01 yoleaux Herby_: I'll pass your message to RabidGray.
02:03 Herby_ whoops
02:03 Herby_ .tell RabidGravy ++
02:03 yoleaux Herby_: I'll pass your message to RabidGravy.
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02:25 japhb Where is the source for the advent posts?  I think (at least) the posts for the 14th and the 17th have mangled source code snippets, and I'd like to see the original.
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02:56 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:21 araraloren 哦|
03:21 araraloren o|
03:28 Herby__ \o
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04:12 Herby_ does p6 have something comparable to python's "setdefault"?
04:12 Herby_ for hashes
04:24 araraloren Herby_, I check setdefault of hash in python, I think Perl6 default does that
04:25 araraloren m: my %h = name => 'foo'; say %h; %h<name> = 'bar'; say %h;
04:25 camelia rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «{name => foo}␤{name => bar}␤»
04:26 araraloren m: my %h; say %h; %h<name> = 'bar'; say %h;
04:26 camelia rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «{}␤{name => bar}␤»
04:27 raschipi M: my %h is default(42); say %h<a>; %h<a> = 55; say %h<a>; %h<a> = Nil; say %h<a>
04:27 raschipi m: my %h is default(42); say %h<a>; %h<a> = 55; say %h<a>; %h<a> = Nil; say %h<a>
04:27 camelia rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «42␤55␤42␤»
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04:29 araraloren oh, I am wrong
04:29 araraloren It should be
04:29 araraloren m my %h = name => 'foo'; say %h; %h<name> //= 'bar'; say %h;
04:29 araraloren m: my %h = name => 'foo'; say %h; %h<name> //= 'bar'; say %h;
04:29 camelia rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «{name => foo}␤{name => foo}␤»
04:30 araraloren Herby_, ^^
04:30 araraloren m: my %h = namex => 'foo'; say %h; %h<name> //= 'bar'; say %h;
04:30 camelia rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «{namex => foo}␤{name => bar, namex => foo}␤»
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04:58 Herby_ araraloren / raschipi: thanks
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05:00 raschipi Herby_: You can put a default on any variable, attribute or array.
05:08 Herby_ raschipi: can you put a default of any empty hash?
05:08 Herby_ like:   current_dict = current_dict.setdefault(letter, {})
05:08 Herby_ I'm reading up on tries: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11015320/how-to-create-a-trie-in-python
05:08 raschipi No idea what that means.
05:09 Herby_ sorry, i'm reading that python example of creating a trie
05:09 Herby_ and trying to figure out how i'd do it in p6
05:13 raschipi Well, it would be nested hashes from what I'm getting, why do you want it?
05:14 raschipi Yeah, "setdefault" would be //= or = // like araraloren said above.
05:15 Herby_ k thanks
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08:16 Hotkeys Perhaps this question is more appropriate here than in #perl6-dev: What kinds of uses might the new/upcoming .toggle have?
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09:54 tyil today's advent article has a typo in the last sentence, where it says "tutotials"
09:54 tyil should most likely be tutorials
10:06 dpk is there any way in the perl6 repl to disable the 'potential difficulties' warnings? or at least make it still do what it would have done
10:06 dpk (i'm aware this may be bad practice but i'm trying to get a sense for edge cases)
10:09 lizmat s/tutotials/tutorials/ done   # tyil++
10:11 tyil thanks!
10:25 AlexDaniel lizmat: there was a question ↑ about .toggle :)
10:26 AlexDaniel lizmat: if you have a good answer, maybe we can put it into the documentation
10:28 lizmat perhaps an example would work best:
10:29 lizmat in its simplest case, .toggle is like grep *but* once the condition has evaluated to False for the first time, it stops checking
10:29 lizmat m: dd ^10 .map( { .say; $_ } ).grep( * < 5 )
10:29 camelia rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «0␤(0, 1, 2, 3, 4).Seq␤1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤»
10:30 lizmat m: dd ^10 .map( { .note; $_ } ).grep( * < 5 )
10:30 camelia rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤(0, 1, 2, 3, 4).Seq␤»
10:30 lizmat note that all values have been sayd
10:30 lizmat m: dd ^10 .map( { .note; $_ } ).toggle( * < 5 )
10:30 camelia rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤(0, 1, 2, 3, 4).Seq␤»
10:30 * tyil notes it
10:30 araraloren It test all value
10:31 lizmat note that with .toggle it only tests until the first False
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10:34 lizmat with multiple Callables, you specify condition for inclusion, condition for exclusion, condition for inclusion, etc.
10:34 lizmat dd ^10 .map( { .say; $_ } ).toggle( * < 3, * > 5, * < 9 )
10:34 lizmat m: dd ^10 .map( { .say; $_ } ).toggle( * < 3, * > 5, * < 9 )
10:34 evalable6 lizmat, rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «0␤(0, 1, 2, 6, 7, 8).Seq␤1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤»
10:34 lizmat m: dd ^10 .map( { .note; $_ } ).toggle( * < 3, * > 5, * < 9 )
10:34 evalable6 lizmat, rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤(0, 1, 2, 6, 7, 8).Seq␤»
10:35 lizmat if you want to start with an exclusion condition, you need to pass the :off named parameter
10:36 lizmat m: dd ^10 .map( { .note; $_ } ).toggle( :off, * > 3, * < 6, * > 8 )
10:36 evalable6 lizmat, rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤(4, 5, 9).Seq␤»
10:37 lizmat I'm not awake yet to write coherent documentation  :-)  so if someone else could take a stab, that would be fine by me  :-)
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10:38 AlexDaniel I filed a doc issue here: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1716
10:38 AlexDaniel although… do we have any tests for it in roast?
10:39 AlexDaniel heh, evalable6++ :)
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11:02 lizmat AlexDaniel: no, no tests for .toggle in roast yet, as I was unsure the implementation would be acceptable by jnthn and TimToady
11:02 lizmat since they haven't reacted, I guess it means they're ok with it
11:02 lizmat still means we need a .toggle for Supplies as well
11:03 lizmat afk&
11:03 Hotkeys I'm curious what interesting uses people will have for toggle
11:06 araraloren I think it's just a candidates we have :)
11:24 TEttinger Hotkeys: toggle seems handy in general. in clojure it's analogous to take-while and map all rolled up into one procedure that does grep stuff too
11:25 TEttinger since toggle has a stopping condition, it could make dealing with lazy/infinite/very-large sequences easier
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11:30 TEttinger the name toggle is just awful though. toggling a switch means turning it off from on, or on from off
11:31 TEttinger and there's none of that here?
11:31 TEttinger is that what the multiple Callables do?
11:32 araraloren Why not add another grep candidate :)
11:32 araraloren or add a :toggle named argument
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11:42 Hotkeys TEttinger: from what I understand it's essentially toggling between a take-while and a skip-until
11:42 Hotkeys So I don't mind the name
11:43 araraloren :) okay
11:43 AlexDaniel .oO( greggle?
11:43 AlexDaniel )
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11:55 * moritz deletes some spam from IR clogs
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12:05 AlexDaniel heh, the spam bot went through extra trouble to notify other bots here…
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12:16 AlexDaniel hah, in fact all of them…
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12:37 tyil bots need love too
12:38 araraloren O_o
12:56 timotimo Herby_: you don't have to set the default of a hash to an empty hash to get a trie, because autovivification does all that work for you. observe:
12:56 timotimo m: my %trie; %trie<h><e><l><l><o> = 1; say %trie
12:56 camelia rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «{h => {e => {l => {l => {o => 1}}}}}␤»
12:56 araraloren Is there a way skip the rest element of a Iterator ?
12:58 timotimo the "rest element"? if you want to skip to the end, you can .sink-all
12:58 timotimo (which will also sink the values)
12:59 araraloren oh, thanks, I found that in document, but not sure
12:59 araraloren I thought there will be a method called skip-all :)
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14:29 andrzejku hi
14:29 andrzejku :)
14:32 Geth ¦ doc: 5c0d7807c1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Type/Telemetry.pod6
14:32 Geth ¦ doc: Update basic Telemetry documentation
14:32 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/type/Telemetry
14:32 Geth ¦ doc:
14:32 Geth ¦ doc: More on the separate instruments to follow
14:32 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5c0d7807c1
14:34 lizmat timotimo: sometimes I think we need a "done" on Iterators, like we have on Supplies
14:35 lizmat that would default to sink-all
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15:05 Geth ¦ doc: 5b3f34bc00 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Type/Telemetry/Instrument/Usage.pod6
15:05 Geth ¦ doc: First stab at documenting Telemetry::Instrument::Usage
15:05 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5b3f34bc00
15:05 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/type/Telemetry/Instrument/Usage
15:05 lizmat afk again&
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16:22 Herby_ timotimo: that is awesome.  Now that I've had a little sleep, I'm going to give tries another look
16:22 timotimo you're gonna give tries another try? :3
16:23 Herby_ even after multiple tries, i'll give tries another try
16:23 Herby_ :)
16:23 timotimo triès bien
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16:25 * masak .oO( triès bien -- the data structure of choice when a trèes bien is not enough )
16:25 timotimo i think i need an explanation for that one, masak
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16:26 masak less cerebral than I'd wish
16:26 masak just that two data structures are named 'trie' and 'tree', respectively
16:26 timotimo oh!
16:26 timotimo that's actually not bad at all
16:27 * masak bows
16:27 masak ...and the correct French spelling is 'très', but who's counting
16:28 timotimo my google chrome does this very annoying thing where code lines in the advent calendar have everything below the baseline cut off :\
16:29 timotimo but not on every line. on most, but a few have their lower parts legible
16:31 timotimo mostly it's g looking like a
16:31 timotimo "what's an exchanae?"
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17:06 Herby_ timotimo: speaking of tries.  If you have a moment free, could you show me how you'd write this python solution in perl6?
17:06 Herby_ https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11015320/how-to-create-a-trie-in-python
17:06 Herby_ the accepted answer on that, the function make_trie
17:07 Herby_ I can't wrap my head around the current_dict = current_dict.setdefault(letter, {})
17:07 Herby_ :(
17:08 timotimo ah, sure
17:08 timotimo so you're starting off with the base dictionary
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17:09 timotimo then for each letter of the word you access the entry in that dictionary for that letter. if there's no entry yet, an empty dictionary will be created and put there, and that's what gets assigned into current_dict
17:10 Herby_ ok
17:10 timotimo it's like you're moving a cursor through the nested dictionaries, creating new empty dictionaries if necessary on the way
17:11 Herby_ I just don't see where the actual letter gets inserted in to the dictionary, since it appears to always create an empty dict
17:11 timotimo m: my %a; %a{|("foobar".comb)} = 1; say %a
17:11 evalable6 timotimo, rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «{a => (Any), b => (Any), f => 1, o => (Any), r => (Any)}␤»
17:11 timotimo oops, wrong one
17:11 timotimo m: my %a; %a{||("foobar".comb)} = 1; say %a
17:11 evalable6 timotimo, rakudo-moar 53a94fe51: OUTPUT: «{a => (Any), b => (Any), f => 1, o => (Any), r => (Any)}␤»
17:11 timotimo also not the right one
17:11 timotimo ah, the trick with that is that the letters are keys in the dictionary, not values
17:11 timotimo the only actual value that ever gets stored is "_end_"
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17:15 Herby_ hmm
17:15 timotimo so we're starting with an empty dict ("root"), then by going through the word "foo" we do the following:
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17:16 timotimo current_dict is "root" first. our first letter is f. we ask for what "root" has stored at f, which is currently nothing. setdefault stores a {} at the l key in "root" for us
17:16 timotimo so our root looks like {"f": {}} now
17:16 timotimo and our current_dict is what setdefault returned, which is that inner empty dict
17:16 Herby_ ok
17:17 timotimo next letter is o, and current_dict is the inner dictionary. we ask it to give (and perhaps install {}) what's in that inner dict at key "o"
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17:17 timotimo so it creates that empty dict and we have our root look like {"f": {"o": {}}} and current_dict is the innermost empty dict
17:17 timotimo one more o, the same treatment, but for "one layer" deeper in there
17:17 timotimo gives us {"f": {"o": {"o": {}}}}
17:18 timotimo we're done with the loop and our current_dict is the innermost dict once again
17:18 Herby_ ok
17:18 timotimo we store _end at the _end key there, which makes the innermost dict be {"_end_": "_end_"}
17:19 timotimo now going with a new word, like "foor", will be very different, because this time there are already dictionaries stored under the keys for "f", "o", and "o"
17:19 timotimo i'll be afk for a bit
17:20 Herby_ ok thanks for the explanation
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17:33 nige hi - I just added advent day 18 and scheduled it for tomorrow morning
17:33 Herby_ nige: o/
17:33 Herby_ can't wait to read it
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17:35 timotimo i have the power to read it early >:)
17:37 Herby_ great power, great responsibility etc
17:38 timotimo scheduled in 7 hours, huh?
17:38 timotimo yeah, that sounds perfect
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17:39 moritz nige: I've added a "Day 18:" to the title, and set the schedule to midnight. Hope that's fine with you
17:42 moritz just to keep stuff consistent with the other posts
17:45 timotimo aaw, that's a short post :(
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17:55 nige thanks Moritz - that's fine
17:58 nige moritz btw the grammar chapter in perl 6 fundamentals was very helpful
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18:44 moritz nige: thanks for the feedback. There's more detail in https://smile.amazon.com/dp/1484232275/ :-)
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19:31 dpk "A Recursive Descent into Parsing" *groan*
19:33 * AlexDaniel sings along
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19:38 * moritz likes the subtitle
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19:48 buggable New CPAN upload: LIVR-2.1.0.tar.gz by KOORCHIK https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/K/KO/KOORCHIK/Perl6/LIVR-2.1.0.tar.gz
19:58 AlexDaniel moritz: nothing wrong with it really
19:59 Herby_ in that buggable msg: "LIVR-2.1.0.tar.gz" looks to be a hyperlink that goes nowhere
20:00 Herby_ not sure if thats for every new CPAN upload msg or not
20:00 moritz huh, works here
20:00 jast works for me, too
20:00 jast maybe there was a bit of a delay before it finished setting itself up?
20:00 moritz wget --quiet https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/K/KO/KOORCHIK/Perl6/LIVR-2.1.0.tar.gz; echo $?
20:00 moritz 0
20:01 Herby_ when I click on the bolded "LIVR-2.1.0.tar.gz", it just opens up a webpage with a url of LIVR-2.1.0.tar.gz
20:01 jast oh, that's not a link at all, your client is probably misunderstanding it
20:01 Herby_ the cpan link works
20:01 Herby_ gotcha
20:01 jast IRC doesn't have a concept of links
20:01 Herby_ i'm using hexchat, not sure if that makes a difference
20:01 jast so terminals and clients try to guess, sometimes incorrectly
20:02 Herby_ kk
20:02 moritz the IRC logs guess correctly too: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-12-17#i_15591493
20:03 jast maybe the IRC logs just don't link URIs without protocol prefixes, like example.org
20:03 jast (just verified :))
20:05 moritz that's pretty hard to get right, given the proliferation of TLDs
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20:19 timotimo there was this one terminal emulator that would send dns requests out to figure out if something the mouse is hovering over is a valid domain
20:21 moritz "what could possibly go wrong"
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21:16 nige surprised to see that perl 6 is not appearing in the timeline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_programming_languages
21:50 b2gills .tell nige There is no entry for any version of Perl other than 1.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_programming_languages
21:50 yoleaux b2gills: I'll pass your message to nige.
21:51 Geth ¦ doc: 0++ created pull request #1717: Minor adjustments
21:51 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/pull/1717
21:58 lizmat b2gills nightfrog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_programming_languages#2010s  # added Perl 6
21:58 Herby_ lizmat: ++
21:58 lizmat nightfrog sorry, I meant nige
21:59 Herby_ the hyperlink for Perl 6 doesn't go anywhere, not sure if that is intentional or not
21:59 Herby_ rather, it doesnt go to an article
22:00 b2gills Should probably point to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6
22:01 lizmat fixed
22:01 Herby_ Huzzah!
22:03 MasterDuke lizmat++. another possible suggestion, rakudo in "The Rakudo Team" could link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakudo_Perl_6. or does that make the entry too busy?
22:08 buggable New CPAN upload: Text-Markov-1.0.1.tar.gz by BBKR https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/B/BB/BBKR/Perl6/Text-Markov-1.0.1.tar.gz
22:12 lizmat MasterDuke: linked the Rakudo Team to the CREDITS page
22:13 MasterDuke good idea, lizmat++
22:13 lizmat also: Perl 6 now links to the Rakudo Perl 6 page, as that was the implementation that became officially released then
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22:40 rindolf Happy birthday, Perl!
22:45 R0b0t1` joined #perl6
22:49 tyil happy birthday!
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23:03 lizmat whee!
23:03 lizmat well, at least in NL now  :-)
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23:30 tyil lizmat: I can ask sam if she wanna come visit your place when she wakes up, to celebrate the wonders of perl ^^
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